But – he wasn’t that person.

He was, as NML and others have suggested – a user that is totally self centered on his own needs. He does not act with any consideration of the effect that his words and actions (or inactions more often) will have on others – namely me or any woman with whom he is involved.

I am absolutely resolute not to spend any more time or waste any more mental energy on him – or any other guy that does not want to date me in the proper – traditional way. Only then, after I get to know the person, and decide if I like him – will I even consider thinking I am in a relationship with that person.

Sorry you went through a similar thing as me. Good luck with finding something worthy of you!

Ashley

So one part of me, wants some kind of justice, some kind of acknowledgment of what an absolute shit he was, and the other part, wants to find a way through this without needing to hate him or label him as “unsalvageable.” Not because my self esteem is low, but because, I don’t want to engage anything but the highest energy I have. I admit, this is not the easiest path; I get going for a while and then I hit a bump and I get very dark and sad. Cigarettes. Its always been a hard thing for me to get over someone who really gets in there and I still think he’s crazy for this, but I have to deal with reality.

15 years ago I went through a breakup that was almost the same as this one, and 5 years ago the guy came back to tell me that I’d never know how much he regretted it, that he’d never met anyone like me again. He ran out and married someone who raked him over the coals and then it hit him. Unfortunately, not in time for us.

Anyway just wanted to contribute a slightly less self-judgmental point of view. Maybe the problem is you’re a beautiful person with a pure heart and the universe is removing what no longer adds to your life for you.

The truth of the matter is, that you have to stop spending any time in contact with him. Get rid of his number, get rid of his emails, get rid of anything that allows you to contact him. I know it hard but i would say, write him out of your life and start focusing more on what you want out of life. Spend more time on doing things that you love doing, rather than pining over someone who can never give you what you want.

Once you accept that things can never be how you want with him and you finally give up on that small hope, then getting over him will be easy peasy.

But i understand its hard. Its kind of like breaking up with someone. The accepting part is always the hardest.

None the less you sound like a great gal, and im sure heaps of other guys who will treat you the way that you deserve to be treated and who are AVAILABLE!

Hope that helps =)

Hot Alpha Female

http://www.hotalphafemale.blogspot.com

A

Anyway, I have started seeing another guy. It is very early days but there is a red flag in that he is separated and going through the divorce paperwork now. He’s been separated for about three years and swears he is emotionally over it. He says he’s been dating since the separation.

I’m getting to know him and we are moving very slowly (no sex). Right now, I am just going to hold back and let him make the next move, initiate the next date. He truly is a good guy and on our last date we spent the whole night just talking, laughing and holding hands. We seem to be very compatible personality wise.

However, knowing my pattern, and knowing he divorce isn’t final yet, I am hesitant and cautious.

My friends say that he seems to be very respectful and the whole thing sounds positive. They agree that I should allow him to initiate for the next date.

BUT – given my pattern, and from everything I’d read on this site – part of me wonders if I should high tail it out of there and spend some more time being introspective about myself, my life and my pattern. If low self esteem is an issue (and I am not sure if it is), perhaps just taking a few months to ensure it’s healthy and high wouldn’t hurt (as NML suggests).

As for the ex – I don’t remember him fondly any longer. It was funny – he approached me at our company’s holiday party last week. His whole manner I found a bit revolting. Couldn’t really look me in the eye for very long, poor posture, over bearing manner. I’m positive I am over him.

Thanks for everyone’s advice.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b155/august_rose_86/lolcats/7c615c621e792eee459d08b4a3bf6e12bf3.jpg

Iz x

I mentioned humor and excitement, joy and satisfaction, to focus on a need to change.
Yes, someone can pay attention to those around them, and have a sense of humor, too. And a friend that smokes can be handy when you want a candle lighted.

Joy!

I don’t know if I can agree with the need for a sense of humor. And I think, especially in the old films, there is the ridicule – pratfalls, the buffoon, what we have today in jokes about blondes, ethnic jokes, jokes about Clinton (either one) and other political jokes. Humor is a way of twisting pain or ridicule in a clever manner. The clever manner is then appreciated, but the presence of humor requires an eye for the absurd – the object of ridicule – or the painful.

I suppose if I had to choose arrogance, an eye for the absurd and painful, with an eye to asserting superiority, vs. ’sense of humor’, an eye for the absurd and painful with an eye to twisting the superior feeling in a clever manner, then the sense of humor is probably preferable.

But you still have someone invested in a sense of superior status. And watching for evidence of pain and humiliation (feelings and signs of being inferior).

I would rather have a partner that pays attention to the needs of those around them, and is most concerned with where they could help, either in leading the way to improved conditions or supporting others.

For now the definition my friend gave me, that humor is based on pain, seems sufficient for my needs.

The problem with a sense of humor is that it grows old – the entertainment value exhausts the freebie sources of ridicule, and eventually gets around to things that are immediately and personally painful. Even watching someone make fun of themselves eventually gets past amusement to an awareness of shortcomings, or their lack of regard for virtues. It gets painful to watch – why do you think ‘entertainment’ comedians have fairly short routines – it is *tough* carrying shtick for long periods of time, even for professionals.

Besides, the ‘clever twist’ to looking at pain and ridicule is a deceptive view point. That can get in the way of expressing emotions in a straightforward, honest manner.

And, no, I am not specifically thinking the Rodney Dangerfield or Jeff Foxworthy or Don Rickles version of ‘humor’. Sure, I can be amused by comedy and humor, but I wouldn’t invite Joan Rivers, Gina Davis (‘Earth Girls Are Easy’ movie), or Ellen DeGeneres home with me.

That is an extremely narrow definition of humour – you’re actually talking about a very specific brand of humour that includes sarcasm, and is funny at the expense of others. The definition of humor is:

“a comic, absurd, or incongruous quality causing amusement” or “the faculty of perceiving what is amusing or comical”

Certainly humour has become a lot sharper over the years, but there is plenty of gentle humour out there – just watch some old films.

Joy is something else completely: “a state of happiness or felicity”. It goes far beyond humour in definition, and actually goes far beyond happiness – it is a mindset that underpins everything else; it’s a deep current that runs beneath everything else that is going on in our life.

I understand your point and it’s a good one, but I would use “exclusively sharp/sarcastic wit” vs “genuine humour and an ability to laugh at himself”. One of the key characteristics of emotionally unavailable men I’ve found is the inability to laugh at themselves because they’re so deeply wounded and insecure.

So actually, I’d argue that a sense of humour and and ability to laugh at oneself is a huge check in the positive column.

Ashley

Say you are going to look for a new car. A sports car, a station wagon, a pickup to haul horse feed, whatever. Only you spot this AMC Gremlin, and thing, “Wow! I love that color green!” And all you can think of is the green color of that Gremlin.

Your guy gave you some happy times. Fond memories are what make life worth living. But you realize you need more than fond memories, you need a partner, a companion.

So the first part is to learn what character is. What good, strong character is. Honesty, honor, integrity, discipline, is good with children and animals. Has good, strong family bonds and close friendships. You had a shot at being the one person in this guy’s life to form a strong personal bond with – and that didn’t work too well, did it?

So the first step is to learn to recognize and value character – then spend your time with people of good character. For several reasons. One is that you want a partner with good character – and the chances will be better in a community of people with good character. Another reason is that you want to be known as having good character, and being identified with a crowd of people of good character is a good way to attract people attracted to someone of good character. Yet another reason is to practice interacting with people of good character – the feedback helps everyone stay on the straight and narrow.

Hint: There is a difference between humor and joy. Humor has an element of pain, of ridicule. Learn to find and accept joy, and avoid humor. Similarly, excitement has an element of fear or danger. Instead, seek out things to enjoy. It may be more mundane, less ‘exciting’, but you have a better chance to enjoy things without stumbling over the danger and fear.

Don’t plan on talking to anyone in a bar that you don’t arrive with. And don’t stay long enough to bore your designated driver.

Next step is easy. Let your married friends know you want a good companion. Start the description with character, and end before you get to hair and eyes. Personally, I like a smile, an appreciation for joy and not given to humor.

Use dating to confirm a potential mate. Use friends and family, first, to confirm his reputation, his character, and his availability. Definitely introduce to friends before getting intimate. You want a social and family companion, not a bed partner, at least that seems to be your complaint about this current guy. Keep that in mind.

The fact that you feel amorous around this guy is good. Once you identify what you really need – an honest man – you should have an easier time relating to good prospects, and you will have less use for distractions – like a happy guy in a bar.

You didn’t mention his drinking habits. I have found that alcoholics are incapable of telling the truth. They don’t lie, so much as just cannot tell the truth. Alcoholics describe a drunk as when the drinking affects the family – and you mentioned his ex. And the bar that he hangs out at.

NML’s advice is great. I just get there from a different direction. Do keep in mind, that getting from here to there is a big change, and change is measured in pain. Best of luck to all of you.