Bethany asks: I broke up with my boyfriend of 5 years just over a year ago. At the time, I thought that it was because I met someone else but after a short relationship with the new man and some serious self-reflection while single, I realised that it was because I never really asked for what I needed in the relationship. We had one big fight at the beginning which was definitely all my fault (long story short, the man before him dented my self-esteem and so I was pushing my boyfriend away) and because I felt guilty about this behaviour, I never liked to argue or confront him if I was unhappy with something in our relationship.
My ex would have given me everything I needed if I’d only known myself well enough to ask. We’ve both matured and I believe our breakup could make us better partners. I can’t get him out of my head. He is the first person I think of when I wake up and the last person I think of at night. I am constantly driven by a desire to be back with him but afraid of grovelling on my knees and being rejected. Is it even possible to make it work a second time round? If not, how on earth can I get over this?
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How do you know that he would have given you everything you needed “if only” you’d asked him? Do you want to get back with your ex or do you have regrets about leaving a five-year relationship for something and someone that quickly didn’t work out?
Going through some serious self-reflection is no bad thing, in fact, if only more people would self-reflect to a more balanced perspective, there would be less chaos in dating and relationships.
That’s something that you can learn straight away: Whether you get back with your ex or not, what you’ve learned will make you a more emotionally available and engaging partner within your relationships.
Suppressing and repressing your true needs, expectations, desires, feelings and opinions to avoid conflict, criticism, rejection and disappointment (people pleasing) is very detrimental not just to your sense of self but to how you show up in your relationships and even to who you choose as a partner.
Conflict is a necessary part of life. We only truly experience intimacy when we can disagree and express our innermost feelings and thoughts even when they might not be ‘pretty’, opening up our awareness about each person’s perspective and allowing us to work together for resolution as well as to grow in self-awareness and self-knowledge, but conflict isn’t an automatic result of any and all expressions of needs, feelings, expectations, desires and opinions.
Consistently being authentic and showing up in the relationship represents our needs to ourselves as well as to our partners.
Some people assume that once in a relationship that they don’t have to meet any of their own needs anymore but actually, they have to meet theirs as well as express the needs that involve their partner, as well as be open to meeting those of their partner, who will also still be meeting their own needs.
Feeling that you’d provoked the argument (possibly not over your previous ex at that point), the guilt prompted you to make a rule to avoid speaking up out of fear of what might come out and/or that you would alienate him. Unfortunately, this was a self-defeating activity because doing things out of guilt just creates more fear as well as resentment plus you were cut off from intimacy meaning that your relationship couldn’t really grow. You were making a rod for your own back by trying to influence and control his feelings and behaviour with people pleasing and hoping that this as well as him potentially reading your mind would solve the issues and make you feel better.
When we feel that our needs have been repeatedly ignored and/or inadequately met in the past, we on some level decide that it’s less painful to silence our needs than it is to express them and run the risk of it being unmet. Throw in a negative association with conflict, and there’s a recipe for pain right there.
It’s true that knowing yourself and being open to increasing that self-awareness and self-knowledge is an important part of being a mature, loving partner. Your suppression limited your connection to you which must have felt lonely a times in your relationship(s).
You have to be for yourself before you can be for another.
I don’t doubt you’ve matured but it’s unclear how you’ve determined that your ex has. You must honour the separateness–one of the mistakes people make post breakup is to assume that because they’re experiencing growth and insights that ipso facto the ex is too. He may have used his time out in a different way.
Get to a grounded place so that you don’t revive this relationship with unrealistic expectations. Write down examples of the needs you avoided expressing and issues that you avoided addressing (confronting an issue good, confronting people in a hostile and argumentative way, not so good): Were they issues that only existed because you hadn’t expressed a need or said that you didn’t like something, or were some of these symptomatic of something else?
View him as a real person who had his own contribution to the relationship. I don’t doubt that there’s aspects of each of your actions that are reactionary but if you don’t distinguish between your own baggage and his, and believe me, he does have his own, it won’t be long until you’re feeling very bruised and confused.
Has it ever occurred to you to ask how your ex managed to be in a relationship for five years and not think that it’s a tad strange that besides one big fight, his girlfriend never raised anything with him?
Let’s imagine that you had a fight within the first 90 days….there were at least another 1736 days where something surely must not have felt quite right to your ex!
Your boyfriend’s been pretty conflict avoidant too. That’s not to say that you don’t both stand to learn a lot from this relationship that will undoubtedly make you both better relationship partners if you each heed the lessons and take responsibility, but you do need to wake up to the fact that you are taking the blame for the entire relationship. You’ve overcompensated for the “one big fight” for the best part of six years.
I’m not asking you to villainise the guy, just to be truthful about the content of your relationship.
I don’t doubt that you love and care about him but distinguish these from obsessing. The latter not only distorts your perspective even further due to repeatedly retracing your steps and trying to control the uncontrollable, but it also allows you to do something else:
Delay having to take the next step and move forward. You might feel ‘safer’ going back than you do going forward.
Before you speak to your ex (no grovelling—desperation may communicate that you haven’t grown your self-esteem!), have a very honest conversation with you and ensure that the continued ‘reflection’ isn’t a way of protecting you from vulnerability and moving on. Thinking is great. Thinking as a substitute for action, not so great.
There’s only so much thinking you can do. The rest is vulnerability through action and expression.
Relationships aren’t mistakes—they’re stepping stones where you get to shed the unhelpful baggage that you’re not aware is holding you back so that you’re ready for the relationship where you can be your best and evolving self.
There’s no point in returning to a relationship unless both parties are clear on what it was that broke the relationship and the issue no longer exists or it’s being mutually worked on.
If you go to your ex, explain what you’ve come to understand about yourself and what you realise that you need to do in your relationships and admit that you kept your silence about certain things (give a few examples but don’t throw in everything but the kitchen sink) and why, he has an opportunity to respond. Remember that if you’re as committed to your realisations as you say, expressing your truth is the next step otherwise how could you even get to being an honest person who expresses her needs in and out of a relationship?
If there isn’t a reconciliation, even though you will undoubtedly feel hurt and will have to grieve the loss of your hopes and expectations for this relationship and even the person you thought you would be in that relationship, you will finally have closure on not just him but your other exes too. You will, as you gain perspective and let go, not only have the opportunity to be that person you hoped to be anyway, but you will also know who you are and how you have to be in your future relationship because you know what you weren’t and what didn’t work for you. Either way, you begin to move forward.
Have you broken off a relationship for someone else only to realise that the new person was a mistake and to think that the ex is the one you’re meant to be with? What did you learn? What would you advice Bethany to do?
Each Wednesday, I help a reader to solve a dilemma. To submit a question, please email advicewednesdayAT baggagereclaim.com. If you would prefer your question to be featured on the podcast, drop a line to podcast AT baggagereclaim.com. Keep questions below 200 words. For in-depth support, book a clarity session or coaching.
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Bethany,
I understand what you feel… I took the blame often for my 5 years-relationship with my ex. Numerous times. And we therefore went on a cycle of « together again-separated again ». Only to realize that, if I’m honest, I was truly fighting the idea that he’s also responsible of our failure… By making myself the ONLY responsible person, it felt like I could control the situation by possibly « change myself again »… when I couldn’t because it takes 2 to tango. It’s an illusion that I was using to always shape myself, shape my behaviour, make myself adaptable to him and to behave now differently of my « faults »… Although every single time we were hoping-on, hoping-off (about 4-5 times on a 8 years total finally…), I always ended feeling very frustrated by some behaviours of his. I was the one who stopped saying what were her true needs and wishes, because 1) I was never heard or even sometimes verbally belittled for my wants… 2) I never FELT that his attitude towards me was a real opened and caring attitude. It took me years to realize that maybe he did « nothing that wrong » (which is really not the case…), but that he was so passive in some ways and therefore, he was never welcoming my true needs and my true self. He even got passive-agressive…
Things had happened for a reason. You’re not the only one to blame, so please make sure you’re honest when you assess this relationship. Do not take all the blame. Take only your fair part, your fair share of responsibilities.
The single sign that you are obsessing about him, to me, is not a good sign in itself. Not the sign that you’re ready. Quite the opposite. You are too desperate on going back with him and that puts you in a big place of vulnerability toward yourself, and not a place of growth. You may love him, he may love you too. But it takes more than love and « fit ». It takes willingness, clarity, honesty and confidence toward self and others to go further. Please take your time before trying back again. Because if it doesn’t work, you may be in a lot more hurt than you are now and you have to be ready for that kind of pain if you want to give this a try all again… Nothing is as simple as « I just didn’t say what were my true feelings, wants and needs ». It’s often more complex than that…
I have tried to go back to exes many times after brief but bad dating experiences. I sought the comfort of their familiarity, deluding myself by choosing to remember the good parts with lots of added frills, and minimizing the bad parts that broke us up.
Assuming the ex has had similar breakthroughs as I was always an invitation to disappointment.
As I see it, my restored self esteem and good boundaries have earned me the right to hold out for a brand new love. No retreads for me.
This is like reading a mirror for me, just wish I was ahead of myself and could assimilate this information. I know it makes sense, but I still feel inadequate. Hopefully it’ll sink in for me like it seems to have done for you! X
I’m sorry to hear about your situation. You sounds a lot like me actually. I think it would best if you took time to learn being alone without any partner whatsoever first. It’s very important and I WISH I did it before getting married again. PLEASE stay alone, learn to make yourself happy by doing things you enjoy. Hang out with your girlfriends, get a hobby, if you don’t like your job maybe do something you have a passion for, get therapy if you thing you need too. Basically, take care of yourself and your needs. Stay away from romantic relationships as LONG as you need to enjoy YOU. This feeling of constantly wanting to get back with him may be a sign that you’re afraid of not being with someone. This very sign means that you’re not ready to be in a relationship yet. It won’t be easy to learn to be alone but it will be much worth it because it will allow to learn how to enjoy YOU without any man having to make you feel loved, beautiful, desired etc.. Surround yourself with loving females you can cry to when you feel the urge to be in a relationship and have fun.
OH! This one is HARD — regretfully, it sounds to me as if *he* doesn’t want *her* and she’s placing the blame on herself and coming up with a way that he could want the relationship again by fixing her perceived inadequacies, in this case, asking for wants and needs to be met.
Suppose the perceived inadequacy was something else, something trivial, like, I dunno , an inability to eat cold pizza or something — not something as loaded as wants/needs? Then, this would be easier to spot as to why it’s not all her responsibility and he needs to show face as well.
What’s up with the need to grovel or whatever to get back in the game? What, b/c she went to greener pastures for a time?Men dump women indiscriminately all the time, no reason to feel guilt over that, IMHO.
I could see if there was a kind of testing the waters situation, moving slowly or if *he* had broached the idea of recapitulation. But. . .*her* positioning toward *him* seems problematic to me, a man not stepping up to want what she wants to me seems like bad news.
I once had an ex who one of our big fights was around me asking for what I want. And then. . .guess what? He wouldn’t give me what I wanted! It became a tortuous sort of game — me asking, him refusing! It took me quite a bit of time to realize this had to do with dynamics with which I was already familiar from way way back. The ONE good thing I got out of that particular relationship was asking for what I want– I probably now need to actually work on not being too demanding and bossy about it.
So, I’m kinda doubting the root of the problem was *her* inability to ask, *his* inability to give and meet her needs plays(played) a role as well. And that amounts to what, BR friends? A plainsighted EUM.
So, guess what her asking for her want and need to get back in a situation is likely to result in? Yep — him not giving, her being rejected — if only to satisfy his ego.
Me personally? I’d feel better if there was some equanimity in the equation along the lines of *her* being *his* every waking thought — not the case or she’d know — guys tend to make *their* obsessions of this sort known.
Looks to me he’s moved on, she hasn’t — not a great place to be. Many (if not most) guys tend not to do the sort of growth we do or must when we’re alone. I’ve been single quite some time, doing all the growth, reflection — what guys do you know that, um, journal? Or keep a “feelings diary”? Or “hug their inner child?” Right.
I’ve yet to meet a man my age who has done the work on himself I have and that a solid, “going somewhere” relationship requires. I’m a bit disheartened that the ones that I have met that *seem* somewhat reasonable and relationship/intimacy ready are much further outside the age range in which I would feel comfortable (I’m talking 10+ years, even 15+ years).
It’s very important to be matched with someone who is committed to growth as we are — both in relationships and out. Otherwise, someone is always going be in the pursue/distance, giver/taker, vulnerable/closed role etc.
As grown women, we don’t have to be the person in the “caretaker of the relationship” role — men have to do their part to, we have to ask them, they have to tell us quite explicitly that they want a growth oriented relationship with love, care, trust, respect then follow what they’ve said with action(s). Consistently. Over time.
Unfortunately — I think too many men are just fine with having their sexual needs met and not too much else emotionally — that’s why they can move on so quickly, not give a second thought, not call when they say and all the other stuff that gives us grief. Those are the ones that need to be screened out early, often — not thought of upon waking.
I mean — I’ve asked guy friends who are married (to other friends, I might add) about this type of situation and each one, irregardless of status, nationality, race, etc. has told me that strange dynamics don’t happen when they want a committed, healthy, long term relationship with a particular woman. All the fretting, groveling, wondering, blurred lines etc. — is usually with and for an unhealthy relationship and/or unhealthy man or one who is still a player.
Sorry — sounds harsh, but I’ve been there. Better luck next time, I think — not with this guy, someone else or just alone.
JC,
Not harsh, but some very true cultural reflections between male and female roles. (A bit nauseating how it’s thrust down our throats via outdated ideologies that men pursue and if you are good enough HE will stay. Ugh. Please.) The whole one person pursues and wants while the other holds the power is super gross.
I hope these dynamics change as a culture. Because as is, is not ok.
“Many (if not most) guys tend not to do the sort of growth we do or must when we’re alone. I’ve been single quite some time, doing all the growth, reflection — what guys do you know that, um, journal? Or keep a “feelings diary”? Or “hug their inner child?” Right.”
Just thought I’d register to reply to this, I (as a 25 y/o guy) was recently dumped out of the blue after a 5 year relationship for a guy she met on the same place she met me (Minecraft of all places) and she’s moving to be with him in Sweden soon.
I’ve been doing a lot of reading, reflecting, keeping diaries and addressing both my own weaknesses, hers and the faults within our relationship to learn from them as well as working on becoming a better person in health, well-being and socially.
Your comment makes it seem like it’s just girls being able of going through this process though I know you said “many” technically.
We are out there 🙂 sharing the same willpower and strive to better ourselves and realise what it truly is we want from a relationship.
She was my everything, my world and I placed her before everything, I have learnt so much the past two months and know I need to be happy being me first and foremost, have a solid understanding of what I want and then whatever happens happens.
You say “that’s why men can move on so quickly” but the exact same is true for my situation with her, she had moved on before she had even left and lied to me constantly about everything I valued most up till the day before the breakup where she promised we’d be “forever”.
But alas, I am rambling on a bit here, thanks for your comment and good luck out there, I hope you find what you’re after.
Bethany,
In non-domestically abusive relationships, I find it rare that a fight between two people is the sole responsibility of one person. When we’re ready to move on and get to know our more authentic self, it can be daunting and our first instinct is to cling to the familiar. Or return to it.
As for the conflict avoidance, sheesh, that’s a tough one for me, too. But part of growing up is asserting our own needs. I liken it to boundaries. They are similar. I find myself in relationships (friendships now) where I let the other person dictate the tone, frequency, intimacy, and boundaries all based on their comfort levels. I realized I choose cold, non-confrontational people to try and have relationships with (who act very much like a caregiver from my childhood who was hot cold, then hot cold with attention, care, and affection) who in comparison to, I come out seemingly needy (I’m not; I’ve just healed enough where scraps of stop go intimacy just don’t cut it).
Where I’m at, is being extra careful in who I give my time to instead of running back to friendships or exes that don’t meet my needs.
Discover more of your needs on your own and then asserting them will become a given and not an option.
Bethany, you are creating a rom-com ending in your head. The scales have fallen from your eyes, and now you realize if you had only done “X”, he would’ve willing been your Prince. Now you are ready to let him know you’ve seen the light, and ask if he will happily be your Prince Charming again.
Men have egos too, and seek revenge, you know. So you have to be aware that he was hurt by your dropping him, and revenge sex could be on the menu for him, no matter how nice he seems. So if you grovel for his affection, don’t be shocked if he hits it and quits it. Or ever so slyly relegates you to booty call status.
You got too much fantasy going on in your head about how things “will be”. I can’t see how spending 5 years with someone who you now realize did not give you what you needed, and you thinking that the reason he did not give you what you needed was because you did not ask for it, can now become the man of your dreams simply because you now have the self-awareness to ask for what you want. He can say NO to some of your needs. How does that slot in to your fantasy?
Because you “invested” 5 years with him does not mean you have to turn him into “the one”.
Hi Bethany,
The obsessing does get better and eventually fades to a point where you kind of laugh in the end re what was so grand about the guy. I was in a similar situation i.e. waking up and going to sleep with said ex in my head. I put myself in counselling and realised I had so many other issues the ex never eventuated for the most part in sessions. Then later on true reflection of what an insincere and unfaithful person ex was sickened me so it was a no brainer moving forward without him.
The same will be true for you going forward re voicing needs in all your relationships (siblings, colleagues, new loves, family and so forth). Best learn from the 5 years (seems it needed 5 years to realise your true sense of self rather than looking at it as such a ‘wasteful’ time), grieve it and what could have been if only you were the person now then. Know who you are now will enable you to not make the same mistake while with the ex, sincerely give future love/s a go to include voicing things to yourself.
If your ex sincerely thought of you while in the relationship he would have known to give you everything without you asking, at very least he would have asked also. Because you hadn’t voiced it was pretty easy sailing for him, imagine now having to step up to things you are needing from him. It could even lead to being too much for the most basic and simplest of things. Best not to assume your maturity level now is the same for him also.
This is going to take a bit of time to work through the regret you seem to be experiencing right now. What a beautiful growth for you though knowing now to voice your needs as the ex certainly didn’t bring this about in you rather keeping the status quo more rocked his boat. And indirectly the guilty feeling re being trodden on in the past added to his easy sailing. Yawn to people who don’t show a bit of exuberance, unpredictability (in the good sense of the word) and passion in themselves. A bit of spice (good-hearted all out expression) now and then I think adds good flavour in a relationship.
Don’t ever be afraid of your new voice, find a way to give it a good balance and make this time round easy sailing for you.
Take care.
I too had no boundaries when I first met my boyfriend who then turned out to be married .the infrequent time together lack of phone calls.I ended it when I found out.he then purseued me for 4 monthes promising he would leave wife and loved me.I fell for it but 6monthes later still in same position.it’s a long story but will try to shorten it..after a year of turmoil I was done then out the blue he called in bad way his wife had cancer and wanted to talk.I felt bad for him.all the time he maintained he loves me.well now 4 years on his wife died nearly 4 years ago and I do try to put boundaries in place he agrees but doesn’t do as he says..he lies a lot.have never met his adult kids as I’m unsur if they know about me.his youngest an alchoholic and dope smoker lives with him and pays nothing but I know he will never stand up to him…can never make plans as he says he doesnt know if he is working..I do see him most weekends.I have only ever been to his house once under cover with his friend..he keeps saying I can go to his house but never do..latest problem planning a hoi and his friend was coming and I was ok with that but now he has backed out and he has asked another friend and I think he can’t go on his own with me as he wont tell his family and he needs Conner or he doesnt want to spend week with me…I always feel hurt and in tears…things an awful lot better than they were but still not happy fed up always saying what I need him agreeing but never really following through everything is always soon.am I wasting my time..I’m 57 and he 60 so not going .there is so much to write but have tried to condense it…also his son doesn’t know he has phone so it’s off so I can’t contact him only he can contact me although now he does daily.any help would be appreciated
Imeant to say his wife die nearly 2 years ago and have seen him for 4 years.have split abot 8 times usually for a few weeks when he says everything is his fault.he never blames me for anything
Sue,
You are with a person that lies to you and used his wife’s illness to leverage you back into a situation that is not good for you (that’s putting it lightly). This man is unsafe. You have no real clue what he is doing or who he actually is.
Sometimes when we feel strongly for someone, it seems unimaginable that they would not feel a thing for us, but the truth is people that care about us would never do the things you mentioned of him. He is impossible of actually caring about anything except his selfish, destructive pursuits.
I know a guy like this. He was talking to (and trying to get sex and emotional validation from) about a dozen women at once (he tried to make me woman 13; I shut that down real fast and stopped all contact with him). He doesn’t care about any of them and seeks out/messes with only the women who will put up with him.
You are too passive because you did not learn to value yourself or your time. I’m sorry you are going through this. I feel sick in the gut imagining your pain; this guy is a nightmare. Like I’ve said, I know the type.
Fortunately there is help.
And you have the opportunity to have some peaceful decades in your life without this mess of a man causing so much misery.
Natalie helped me greatly to get away from horrible relationships. It wasn’t easy and I fought her much of the way, but thankfully I finally listened. And changed. It is not too late for you to get away from this man and own your own life.
Natalie’s book Mr Unavailble and the Fallback girl was a great place to start for me. Start reading her posts on unavailable relationships. Try and recognize a support system (like anyone compassionate that has your best interests at heart–I stayed with a friend’s mom after experiencing domestic abuse), and read Natalie’s posts on cutting contact. You really need to educate yourself on and prepare yourself for no contact and get away from this man (and never engage with people like him in the future). He strikes me as sociopathic; still do not get caught up in diagnosing him, just get out.
You can do this.
I did and I’m real stubborn sometimes.
Wishing you all the best love and strength in this world xx
Agreed. You have no idea if this son really is a drug addict etc since you’ve never met him. All I hear from your letter is… Sadness? Like here seems nothing this man is really giving you. Plus he brings out problematic feelings in you – eg it’s not really your business whether your non boyfriend supports his ‘loser’ son and won’t stand up to him. you’re in a casual relationship, no commitment, it’s not public, you can’t call him, you can’t go to his house… This isn’t even a relationship. Unfortunately it sounds a bit as if you’re absolutely in the thick of it, he’s convinced you his life is so important and complex and you’re falling for it …and the only way out is …. No contact. Total cut off and stick to it. You need a trusted friend who will help you maintain it.
You are indeed wasting time. you’re in a non relationship with a man that makes you miserable. To be honest it seems like you need a zen moment, an aha moment, some humour and perspective to snap you out of this defeatist attitude, you can’t argue and reason yourself out of this. No contact will give you the mind space to reconnect with yourself. Perhaps a simple mantra will help : am I happy, is this making me happy? If yes, do it. If no, don’t do it. Ask yourself all day everyday. Because you deserve to be happy but you have decided for some reason that you don’t.
Sue,
I agree with Suki and GetOutNocontact. I’m no perfect myself and have a long way to go in terms of having my own back in messed up relationship situations, but getting there – thanks to BR and wonderful ladies here for compassion,understanding and tough love.
Now, you need not worry about making things work with this guy. You deserve better. He’s a 60 year old, but apparently not grown up enough to be able to date a woman without hiding, or get you to be under cover by being under the shadow of his friends. Why is he so special? He is keeping you a secret for whatever reason and you are letting him treat you like something of no value. He reminds me a little bit of a guy i dated just after separating from my abusive exhusband. This guy wanted us to be a secret. Didn’t want our friend to know we were dating or going out. I’m embarassed to admit that i complied at the cost of my selfesteem falling into pieces. I’m happy to say I got aha moment after coming here, and now I actually despise him and realise he was an highly insecure guy and projected his insecurities at me. This is nothing compared to your situation as mine was about 6 months. You have been betting on potential on this guy since he was married (though he’d lied about it), made you his fallback girl and armchair psychologist by using his wife’s sickness to manipulate you into getting back with him, now there is his drug addicted son who somehow is suppossed to make it impossible for you to be with him (it does not make sense but anyway), then there is the phone thing where you can not contact him but only he can, because his son does not know he has a phone? Wow, too much mindfuck going on Sue. You need to leave this guy, you do not to make any sense of what he is doing or explain. It does not even matter whether what he says is true or not. What matters is that whatever it is, it means that he has failed to fully show up and treat you with love, respect, trust and consideration and he has been damn consinstent at it, for years. When is it going to be enough? He does not even care and appreciate that you have been there for him, being so loyal and showing him love by bending over backward, going under cover and being overly understanding. Start with no contact. Once he does one of his unavailbility over the phone crap and reappear to contact you because he has a friend to take to deliver you to his place or wherever for his use, don’t respond, ignore. If he uses any of his tragedies and life drama to manipulate you, ignore, ignore. If you are tempted to reach out to him or respond, come here-you won’t regret it. Actually, just block his number and delete it, and block him every social media you have him on. Then work on recovering your selfesteem and selflove. You deserve better. He is not that special. Stay strong and come here for support.
Thanks so much for your replies.I have gave him an ultimatum this Saturday I go to his house and meet his son and of course he says he will but so far he has not called me as he said he would..I have split so many times and each time he promises to do all the things he says ..I am more prepared for it this time and will go NC..I do know it’s true about his son as one of his friends has helped me a lot and told me I need to leave him..I know everthing you people are saying is true but it’s madness and I find it so hard to let go but I really have to this time..But it’s even a few monthes down the line of not seeing him im vulnerable if he contacts me. Thank you all so much for your input….