Kieron asks: I’ve had a weird relationship with a woman 10 years my senior who was still living under her ex’s roof at the time of meeting me (and since we got married in June ’10 still is as she went back to him since she didn’t know where our relationship is going).
At first we went out a few times while living under their roof. Then when I got my own place a month later we made several plans on different days to meet up and every time at the last minute she’d bail out blaming it on her ex saying he was controlling etc. ?
Now with me having made several mistakes involving other women over the three years we’ve been together but living apart – the first affair only 4 weeks after we got engaged which is only 2 weeks after I met her – we have now split up. I’m wondering why I slept with other women after she said she couldn’t see me and what I can do in the future to stop myself repeating the same mistakes.
I’m guessing maybe I felt I couldn’t trust her after she bailed out on me so many times or we went into things too quickly without assessing the situation fully…who knows, she wouldn’t tell her ex anything for fear of losing her son to him or tell anyone in her family anything either from the start…please help if you can, I don’t want her back, I’d just like to know what caused me to stuff up in the first place.
Kieron, you’re basically asking: Where did I go wrong in my secret relationship with a woman that still lives with her ex? Just reading that question back to yourself should tell you a lot.
This relationship is so bonkers that in 0 to 6 weeks you managed to get engaged and cheat on her – not only did you have a very premature engagement but your motives for getting engaged were clearly a bit dodge. I’m going to hazard a guess that on meeting her and discovering that she lived with her ex still, and her probably being a little elusive, this made her all the more desirable and you thought you’d remedy the situation and bring it under control by proposing. Maybe you thought she’d move in or tell her ex about you or that it would prove you were a stable alternative? Who knows but it didn’t pan out and it seems she remained just as elusive.
You “stuffed up” because your heart and feet were never in this rather strange relationship. In fact, neither of you were in this. You got engaged for the wrong reasons and too quickly plus you cheated just four weeks in and obviously it was more than once.
You don’t know what commitment or a relationship means and you were never likely to find out in this relationship.
This isn’t so much about the fact that she bailed on you so many times (that’s not even the starts of a justification for sticking it elsewhere) or that you went too quickly without assessing the situation ‘fully’; you were not a man of your word, you were involved with someone who clearly was still involved at the very least on an emotional level with her ex making your own relationship void, and you either didn’t assess the situation at all, or you believed that getting engaged might make her feel more secure about you, less elusive, and maybe she’d even leave the ex properly and come and be with you.
Fact is, who would feel secure about somebody that proposed after 2 weeks when it was blatantly obvious that it was too soon and that she was in a weird situation?
Yes I know she accepted the proposal, but it was clearly lacking in as much meaning and intent as your words were.
Something about this woman and her relationship situation appealed to you and it’s the fact that anything you had with her couldn’t be a ‘real’ relationship so you didn’t end up committing or really even risking yourself. Some people make a noise of committing when they know that actual commitment is unlikely.
This is a bit like when someone has eluded commitment and then when the person is on their deathbed confesses undying love and claims how they’re so ready now to commit – they know it’s not going to happen so it’s safe to say the words.
You cheated because not only is it your way of not dealing with issues, but because you felt rejected and out of control of the situation. Cheating is a very passive aggressive act of rebellion and it no doubt made you feel better again and you continued to cheat so that you could feel in control and less rejected even though you still didn’t actually ever have any real control in the actual relationship with her.
The fact is, without trust there is no relationship and it doesn’t appear that at any point you sought to address the trust issue, which isn’t going to bode well for any relationship.
Your relationship was a secret which is a serious ‘code red’. It’s very difficult to avoid feeling invalid and invisible – sleeping around gave you some short-lived validation. The fact is that it was impossible for your relationship to survive. You weren’t a part of her life, she wasn’t a part of yours, and she was afraid of losing her son so she was never going to be with you – there was never going to be a right time to tell her family or her ex and I doubt she ever intended to.
I also suspect that you felt you could legitimise your cheating because your relationship wasn’t out in the open.
Your relationship was very ambiguous – how someone can leave a marriage because she doesn’t know where it’s going is beyond me. Surely by the definition of being married, the direction is a given? Your marriage lacked intent much in the way the proposal and the entire relationship did and I’m guessing neither yours or her behaviour changed. To be honest, I’m not convinced she ever left her ex or that he’s actually an ‘ex’.
I should add though that you didn’t ’cause’ her unavailability – you didn’t create the problems or her situation as it all existed before you met her and still does after you broke up. I don’t know how the hell you two even managed to get married under these circumstances (I assume one last ditch effort to ‘get’ her) but it wasn’t a marriage with any integrity and actually.
If you don’t want to repeat the same mistakes:
Never get involved with someone who is attached or is still involved in a dysfunctional way with their ex – it is unhealthy, it will fail. Still living with an ex equals no room in the inn for you especially as if they were genuine about the relationship, they’d rectify the living situation pronto.
Don’t use proposals as a way to try and get someone or a situation under your control and only propose marriage when you know someone properly, have established that you have shared values, and that you’re actually both in the same relationship. While it’s flattering to be proposed to after 2 weeks, it’s also weird, and even more so insincere. Equally, don’t use getting married to solve a problem – like babies, it won’t. You need a healthy, committed, stable, relationship with mutual love, care, trust, and respect for marriage, or a proposal for that matter.
Stop trying to solve your problems by shagging around. Either seek to resolve the issues or end the relationship. I feel for you, this situation was damn weird (you both contributed to that), but cheating is an act of disrespect and the reality is that if this is how you conduct yourself, she had no reason to trust you and feel that her and her child could be ‘safe’ with you. When someone is unavailable or they cancel a plan, don’t take ‘revenge’ by shagging someone else. You need to grow up because if you don’t want to stuff up next time, you need to be a hell of a lot mature about your relationships.
Address your availability issues. If you were genuinely emotionally available, you wouldn’t have peed on this relationship if it were on fire. Harsh, but true. Work out of how you feel about you and relationships. Do you actually want to be in a committed relationship? Do you know what that involves? Are you prepared to put boundaries in place? Address where your beliefs and feelings about relationships come from, whether it’s how you were emotionally schooled by your parents, you had a bad breakup that you didn’t recover from, or you had some other type of emotionally traumatic experience. In this relationship, you were avoiding a real relationship. If you don’t think you can work this out on your own, I would highly recommend that you spend some time speaking with a counsellor or therapist so you can make sense of your beliefs about relationships.
Know when to fold. You’d only known the woman a wet week when she started flip flapping around and throwing out red flags like there was no tomorrow. That’s your abort mission signal right there…not an indication of a proposal. Even after you were engaged, you had umpteen opportunities to fold – this relationship clearly wasn’t working.
Don’t sell yourself short. You deserve more than crumbs of attention and being kept on the peripheries like a dirty little secret.
Your thoughts?
Check out my ebooks the No Contact Rule and Mr Unavailable & The Fallback Girl and more in my bookshop.
Add to favorites
What in the entire hell?….. 😐
This reeks of chaos, lies, sex and videotape. 😐
Some major alone time is necessary here. No sex, no relationships, not even cuddling, in my opinion. None of that unless it’s with your own hand(s). 😐
This is out of control. Damn. 😐
Kieron
As soon as I read the the title of Nat’s post I could only think “oh dear”. Oh dear, what a mess. I won’t give you a hard time, not even for the cheating. That’s only part of the big mess that you both got into. And lots of us have got into similar messes though not quite as bizarre as being The Other Person who They Married But Still Kept a Secret. Natalie has dissected your “relationship” and while it will be necessary for you to think through this situation, the bigger question is how you ended up there in the first place. Nat’s posts around values and boundaries will be very helpful. You need a much greater level of consciousness and purpose so you don’t just walk into something with red flags and alarm bells plastered all over it.
If you were a woman I would tell you to spend some time single, develop friendships, do things you enjoy, be with family (assuming they are a positive influence), consider counselling especially if this is a pattern, join a sports team, eat well, whatever it takes to make your life enjoyable/positive before you even THINK about another relationship. Maybe those tips will work for you. In the meantime, I don’t think it would be a good idea to see anyone casually for sex or have one night stands etc. I’d start with a clean slate and not go down a route that has every potential to hurt yourself and others. And remember to get divorced if you want to move on.
You’ve been honest enough with yourself to admit you “stuffed up”, take that further so you can instigate real change for the future. I’ve stuffed up too.
All the best with it.
All I can say is wow and therapy, therapy and more therapy.
At first I thought that person was writing in with a fake situation, one that mocks what we are trying to do here, and that Nat’s comments were going to address that.
But I see it’s real. When I think about it, there are a few women, but very few, in my life who would be able to act as this woman is behaving. Just goes to show there are inexperienced men out there too who don’t know when to run the other way!
@Kieron: sounds like you are used to instability and chaos and unreliability in your life. You are still not secure enough in your own decision-making ability to know why you make the choices you do, and are looking to other people to answer that. Fortunately, this blog is a safe place to ask other people to judge your decisions, but ultimately you’re on your own in picking partners so I hope you’ll hear what Nat is saying and realize you don’t know what “relationship” and “commitment” mean.
(I’m still learning what these mean, as are most of us on this site!)
When you have learned that you can choose people and situations that work for you (i.e. are stable, healthy, fun, committed) and keep working for years, you’ll be able to pick a partner who will relate well to you for years and years. That may take years of being on your own and trusting yourself, first. Good luck!!!
Interesting relationship, however as I have also had one where the ex was only separated which also got messy… who am I to judge?
I agree totally with Nat
“Never get involved with someone who is attached or is still involved in a dysfunctional way with their ex – it is unhealthy, it will fail. ”
Why do people continue to look for validation outside themselves? If we can learn to control our emotions, then we can be winners. eg “You cheated because not only is it your way of not dealing with issues, but because you felt rejected and out of control of the situation.”
We all have our ways to not deal with things, for some it’s a wine, others it’s shopping or sex. Why not just increase your emotional intelligence – ie learn how to feel your emotions in a healthy way in a time that suits you? (without bringing others into it) eg if you are angry go for a run, punch a boxing bag, yell!
At least this is the way I intend to live my own life these days. I have been working on this for the last few years and although I have my moments, these strategies do work!
“If you were genuinely emotionally available, you wouldn’t have peed on this relationship if it were on fire”.
So so so true, how often do we choose people who we know can’t commit to us for whatever reason but deep down we know they can’t commit and they’re a safe option.
I have a friend who is in a situation very similar, I passed this post on to them. Its hard when a freind is in a situation and they know its unheahty but they are are either not ready to change it. So I’ll stop talking and just pass them this site instead!
I have my own issues to deal with. Like starting the path of resolving my commitment issue (comitment is ALL aspects of my life not just relationships) and then being lead down a split road to sabotage.
I am getting very tired of picking up the pieces when I make my own life harder. Like starting projects and not following through to receive the positive results or keeping my own promise of not having casual relationships for say oh, two or three weeks then being hormonal and going along with the see of men that show interest (not being big headed but everytime I pull out of the lime light another one or two show up like a freaking magnetic).
This tangent im having is going to one question for NML or anyone on this site…
Every month (around THAT time) I have trouble keeping the plans or new rules I’ve made for myself to improve my life and move on up.
As a women, dealing with PMS this is nothing new, but it seems to be making my new found resolutions so much harder and I cant seem to stick to anything long enough. That with my already impatient nature, being a gemini, getting bored very easily, it is actually plagueing me and I am struggling to deal with this.
Any suggestions will be much appreciated.
Hi NK I can really identify with your post and especially the lines:
” Like starting projects and not following through to receive the positive results ” and when you said ,
“Every month (around THAT time) I have trouble keeping the plans or new rules I’ve made for myself to improve my life and move on up.”
However I think thta those are two different issues. the first is procrastination. I am not different from anyone here and like to put off till tomorrow what I can do today. There are plenty of self help books on time management that could help you with that one. The second issues is how PMS affacts women and its fair to say that it does . Hormonal changes do affect our brains no doubt about that and I sure plenty of guys out there will say “hell yes!!”
However NK, when it comes to living your life well, it really is only down to YOU. You are in the driving seat. You can decide to procrastinate and dither about getting keeping your own timelines and finishing project and you can choose to keep on going back to casual relationships despite them not working for you OR you can ecide to CHANGE. I know it’s not easy at all. Change is about learning new habits and behaviours and this all takes time!
Whilst PMS (PMT) does affect women AGAIN, we can choose to let our biology dominate us and run us off the track like a train OR we can choose not to. That’s what makes us different from animals. We DO have choices! So go for it NK and choose the life YOU want that is healthy and move away from excuses, now you know what is holding you back you can change if you want to.
(If you want to read about someone changing your life, read about my personal change journey on my blog..it isn’t easy to change but I know I can do it and I know YOU can too with the right motivation)
@NK: uum, i know what you mean by THAT time!! small things are magnified and it’s hard to stay motivated. I thought of an idea for you- what about getting a calender and marking in your commitments per day. It might make it easier for you to stick to them when you see them written down on the calendar.
@ Audrey
Thank you for your suggestion. Its always good to be reminded about organisation.
I do write stuff down all the time. Im quite organised in that way, its just that I always fall through and los interest/motivation/feel lazy or something.
EH?…. yeah, again EH?
First of all I would like to thank Nat,for all the sound advice that she has shared here. I know without a doubt it has got me through the last five months of NC with my EU man.
Reading Keiron’s post about getting involved with someone living under their ex’s roof made me think that I had accepted the same situtation and how bizarre that must have seemed to family and friends . The advice given ‘to never get involved with someone who is attached or still involved in a dysfunctional way with their ex ‘ is essential and I for one will never forget it.
I’m divorced and this man told me he was separated, had been for eight years but lived at home with his daughters and that he would have to return there to do repairs and look out for them . He neglected to mention that his wife ( he called her his ex ) still lived there. He told me that his daughters (both in their twenties ) would never accept me , I thought I understood that as my own daughter for years wanted nothing to do with her father’s partner when we divorced, but has since developed a good relationship with her . I’d have saved myself a lot of grief if I’d not got involved with someone who in spite of his denials was still married to and living from time to time with, his ‘ex’. I allowed myself to become his secret.
There were many red flags and gut wrenching moments but still I kept going, we’d break up and get together again so many times. This continued for almost four years, for me finding out he was seeing someone else and had been for six months was my wake up call.
When I started to read Nat’s posts it was as though someone had switched on a light and everything was clear. Thank you.
I continue to read , learn, take reponsibility for my actions , know always that I have a choice and believe that I deserve the best. It’s not always easy but I’m getting there !
Hi Penny,
you said, ” I allowed myself to become his secret.”, and that is the crux of the matter. I can not see how it is possible to have someon in your life and keep them a secret! Basically if you are a secret in someone’s life you are not in their life as NML said. whys stick around and not be in someone’s life?
Everyone owes it to themselves to be acknowledged as important by the people they love. If you are not, then there are some serious questions to be asked. You have obviously asked yourself these questions and good to hear that:
“I continue to read , learn, take reponsibility for my actions , know always that I have a choice and believe that I deserve the best. It’s not always easy but I’m getting there !” Good for you!
“
i am not even sure this qualifies as a “relationship” in a meaningful definition of the word. yes, it is a “relationship” in the sense that the players are relating in some way, but wow, talk about pain and despair and drama spilling everywhere.
it makes me feel like my own distressing marital unraveling is just run-of-the-mill BS.
@Kieron, honey, get some help. ANYONE deserves better than this stuff. stay far, far away from this woman, and try to figure out how and why you got pulled into this….
Kieran,
there was a lot going on in your relationship that was not healthy for you mentally and emotionally. The fact that you have to ask about what you can do for the future speaks volumes really. The questions you have to ask yourself is why did you become involved with an attached married woman? Then ask yourself, why you think that a marriage proposal after a few weeks weill be the basis of a mutually respectful marriage. Then maybe you can also give consideration why cheating is an option for you when you are in a relationship. As NML said this lady had her problems way before you met here and she was never available for a relationship with you. It’s a complicated story and you may find it useful ( if you are serious about understanding your relationship) in discussing the issues your letter raises with a therapist who can discuss with you some of your assumptions about love, trust, and relationships. Good luck!
That situation is a big mess, Definitely unhealthy.
http://www.MODERNOXEGEN.Blogspot.Com
I want to thank you so much for this site…it’s such a great help. I’m doing so much better because of the support I get from it. I am so thankful…
Ooooh golly gosh! as they say in England (probably around the 1940s and in posher homes) … what a singularly spectcular situation … I feel so sorry for you. Please just walk away from this – with your dignity if possible … I am thinking of you. All good wishes for a happier, far healthier relationship in the future.
On reading more comments another phrase really hit home “I allowed myself to become his secret.”
So many of us allow our love/obsession to become tainted. For example, if you are with someone who has children and doesn’t want to rock the boat with his ex…. have you ever become a secret? I know one time I did (okay 2 x!). I didn’t even realise I had – either time….
Although that is not to say that when we meet someone we should automatically meet all their friends and family or introduce them to yours.
Timing is so important. As one of my wise girlfriend’s says “If in doubt. Don’t!”
I hate to say it but this makes some of my ass backwards drama filled relationship failures with ass clowns future takers and narcisssits look like a walk in the park!
I could have used to be slapped in the face by Nats statement about the ex factor failure last year ! ( that future faker is still sending me cards cause we should talk…right?!!? )
Let me tell you all, it does get better… after all I just spent the entire last two years in “no contact” with all of these jokers! I’m getting better or they are getting crazier cause the last one lasted a mere 3 months!
Thanx to Nat and all of you I continue to learn,grow ,change ,forgive and love myself!
Love to everyone here- you can do it!