Over the past few days since I wrote about whether you’re ready to date again, there’s been a flurry of discussion in the comments about people who rely on making last minute plans under the guise of being ‘spontaneous’ and who when you try to make plans, or call them on their lack of commitment, get all shirty with you.
This is what spontaneous looks like: You’re dating or in a relationship for a while, you see each other regularly, make plans in advance and then one day they phone up and say “I just found out that X is doing a gig tonight – do you fancy it?” or “Surprise! We’re off to Paris/having a weekend away/eating out tonight” or giving a gift just because.
This is not what spontaneous looks like: You’re dating or in a relationship for a while and you only find out what you’re doing on a Friday evening or on the day that it’s happening. Plans are rarely if ever made in advance and when you try to, they’re difficult to pin down, so in the end, the decision for them to agree to your suggestion is so last minute that they’ve pulled their usual stroke on you again – passive aggression.
Spontaneous also doesn’t look like: You haven’t heard from them for several days, a week, a few weeks, or even months and then a text comes through “Hey…hope you’re well. Fancy going out tonight?” And then after you spend time together, you don’t hear from them again for another several days/weeks/months until the next textvite comes through. That’s mind f*ckery. You can be damn sure that it also doesn’t sound like a call after dark asking whether they can ‘come over’ – that’s a booty call.
Spontaneous: “performed or occurring as a result of a sudden impulse or inclination and without premeditation or external stimulus.” (Oxford Dictionary)
I’m all for seizing the moment but if the only time I hear from you is when you’ve seized the itch in your pants, or your ego needs some pumping, or when you’ve finally decided to get around to thinking of me and considering me in your plans at the last moment, I’d rather take a raincheck.Sometimes it’s nice to fly by the seat of your pants, but the type of person who relies on keeping you on ‘standby’ as an option to avail of and actually expects that should they choose to only spring their plans on you five minutes before, that you’ll drop everything, is someone who is like the seat of someone’s pants…after a bad day – shady.
It’s like you’re on standby for a flight or a backup generator!
Do you want to be someone’s ‘sudden impulse’ or do you want to be considered?
Would you be happy with someone not thinking ahead, planning, and committing to something as basic as short-term plans?
Just like the whole ‘busy’ issue, it’s a question of valuing other people’s time.You can be damn sure that the person who doesn’t make plans with you assumes that you’re on their ‘waiting list’ without something better to do. Often, it’s not a question of what you’ll be doing together; it’s a question of whether you’ll be seeing each other at all.
Much like people who keep emphasising how ‘honest’ or ‘nice’ they are, suffer with Those Who Doth Protest Too Much, when someone goes to the trouble of telling you that they’re spontaneous, you’re dealing with a Future Avoider that has basic commitment issues. If you can’t get them to commit to making short-term plans, may the force be with you for anything bigger.
These people expect you to go with their flow – this will gnaw at your insides, having you anxious about whether you’ll be ‘picked’ each week. Feck that!
One of my ex’s wasn’t keen on ‘making plans’, often using the phrase “flying by the seat of my pants.” Most weekends I’d be ‘summoned’ after he’d decided what he wanted to do, or be subjected to having to listen to him whining about finding something to do that ticked his ‘spontaneous’ boxes. Invariably, 99.9% of the time, it was boring. So I did the smart thing – I went ahead and made my own plans. If I was around and I wanted to go, I’d meet him, but if not, hey ho – you snooze, you lose.
Sadly I didn’t heed that lesson as he wasn’t my last Mr Unavailable and after being summoned here, there, and everywhere by text, phone, and email, I recognised how devaluing this was – it’s like floating around on the coat tails of other people’s lives – you have a life of your own!
This shouldn’t be so hard for us to recognise as worthwhile, valuable individuals: We are people worth thinking ahead about and making plans with.
You will know you’re dealing with someone who really isn’t all that spontaneous and who in fact has commitment issues, when the things that they’re being spontaneous about aren’t really all that exciting.
It’s also important to consider the bigger picture: If someone rarely plans ahead, them leaving things till the last minute isn’t spontaneous – it’s routine. This is a bit like the person who is so inconsistent that they become consistent at being inconsistent.
Everything is contextual. If you have a healthy, mutual partnering and they surprise you periodically or you both decide to do things on the spur of the moment, that’s spontaneity. Them doing things on their terms and you being shoehorned into one way or the other is passive aggression.
Your whole relationship can’t be one big ‘ole impulse. Part of being available and committed is being able to commit to doing basic things that if you’re not too busy trying to micromanage your intimacy and responsibility levels, you’d take for granted as being part of your relationship and enjoy it.
You are not a ‘standby ticket’. You’re not.
You are better than sitting around waiting to be called up for duty. You’re also better than being a standby option after they’ve made sure they haven’t got better plans.
You’re someone to be made plans with. You’re also someone that can be surprised and seize the moment but within the context of already having the freedom of a relationship where you can talk about making plans without being shut down.
And that’s the test: Spontaneity cuts both ways. You can be damn sure that you’re with someone who has commitment issues when it’s all on their terms and you can’t be spontaneous and get together on impulse.
Don’t be a passenger. If you’re not comfortable with being dialadate, then don’t. Instead of giving a big explanation or even a small one, just say that you’ve made other plans, which you should do anyway as leaving yourself as an option makes you a passenger giving people the option of choosing you, while you’ve already chosen them. They’ll either meet you in the middle and make plans, or beat it. Or…they’ll pretend to meet you in the middle and gradually eek it back to last minute, at which point you bounce them and walk.
Start as you mean to go on because really, you don’t have time to be teaching a grown-up to value and prioritise you. Remember – when you don’t allow yourself to be on standby, they can’t treat you like an option.
Your thoughts? If you have been reluctant to step up and make plans and have relied on them doing all of the ‘chasing’, read my post on why you shouldn’t make it the guy’s job to do all of the calling and making plans.
Check out my book and ebook Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl in my bookshop.
About the Author:
Natalie Lue is the founder and writer of Baggage Reclaim and author of the books Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship and more. Learn more about her here and you can also follow her on Facebook and Twitter - @baggagereclaim .
Natalie (NML) – who has written 1082 posts on Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue.
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So, had 3 dates with a guy, we chat EVERY DAY via ph or text for weeks before and during out dates, it starts to get to the point where I’m thinking of taking it a step further, and then bam!…nothing for several days on end. I leave a message with him asking how he is – he doesn’t reply. I give up realising he must not be into me, when he texts me 7 days after last hearing from him ‘sorry I haven’t been in touch, I’ve been manic busy. Do you want to go to dinner tomorrow’…..Um. No thank you, what am I your fallback option? It’s obvious you’ve met someone else and just want to keep me on standby ‘just in case’. Shame cos you seemed like a catch, but guess you’re missing out on something great cos you pissed about.
Don’t give him another moment of your time unless you like to be treated like an option.
After a lengthy NC with the ex AC – with me ignoring his texts, I had a text from him yesterday asking if I’d have dinner with him one night. Well I thought ‘no harm in that’. I’m over him and getting on with life and ignoring him seemed a bit childish after he’d played such a big part in my life for 2 years. So I texted back ‘OK let’s have dinner one night’. 24 hours later there’s no response! Now I’m left wondering – was he just ‘fishing’ to see if I’d take the bait and now he’s ignoring me – or – was the text meant for someone else. I can live with it, but its left me feeling stupid for responding. Should I just ignore it or should I text (his favoured method of communication) to say clearly it was meant for someone else on his list and to forget it? Will I ever learn , once an AC, always an AC!
No don’t reply. He’s fishing. You deserve better. Stand your ground, hold your head high. He’s not meant for you. : )
If you needed a reminder as to why you went no contact with this particular AC, I think you just got it!
What a w***er!
He’s just trying to mess with you. When you respond, it allows him to sustain the delusion that he’s still important to you even though he could never be bothered to make the effort needed to please you and keep you. Total loser. Total waste of time. Please don’t respond further. You deserve way better.
Shattered, block and delete. Keep your power ignore him from this point on no matter what he says.
Loved this post! Here’s the big question I’ve been grappling with for ages: If men aren’t taking the steps to treat me properly, and they’re not taking the steps to treat any of my friends or any of the women my friends know properly, then who in F*CK’S name ARE they treating properly?
Or is it that everyone is a “Fallback girl” in the life of a “Mr. Unavailable?”
Is there a “secret” type of woman they do things for? Or is it just that they don’t do anything for anyone other than themselves?
beth, i have thought long and hard about this question too. but mr. ex EUM spelled it out for me. although he was treating me like shite, realised it but had the gall to tell me how i would feel if in a few months time, he does have a new relationship or is engaged because he wanted a break from me…we were doing no contact for 5 months, thought it was supposed to end peacefully, but it didnt… the point is, when men have set their mind about things, they will settle. thats why some friends i know ex’s ended up marrying women that were a) totally unnattractive and so not their type. i read a study somewhere that on the scale of things from highest (10) to lowest (1), men will screw with a girl who is for example a 10, but marry a girl thats a 5. someday well men feel the pressure to marry, a lot of it is due to culture, family, wanting children etc, so i will say that my ex EUM will never find a girl like me but will marry an imported girl from overseas (my ex’s family want him to marry someone from their culture and he has said that he would have an arranged marriage from someone overseas.) anyway, that girl will never treat him as i have treated him. and well, i treated him like a god. so a lot of guys miss out on great women and marry wrong ones and same for women, we settle as well. hence the fact that half marriages end in divorce.
Beth, I really didn’t like the comments you made about “grading” women on a 1 to 10 scale. It’s very unkind and in any case we are all human beings with our own personalities and qualities, it’s all subjective as to what is loveable in another person. Don’t take your anger out on a woman you don’t know and who has done nothing to you.
And, why would you treat a man “like a god”? He isn’t. There are other posts on this site about why you should never put someone on a pedestal. If you put them up there they will be looking “down” on you.
Beth, sorry that was for Jasmine.
jasmine
Don’t compete with other women, don’t do the she’s a ten and he’s a five and don’t treat men like a God. They don’t respect you for that, they look down on you from their lofty Godlike height while you are falling over yourself trying to impress them.
The divorce rate in the UK is actually falling.
Beth, it’s a simple as this: they are directing, producing, living and starring in the all-about-them show. If you are or anyone else are remotely ‘lucky’ when it comes to them, you might be graciously afforded a fleeting cameo role in this show. Seriously….do not expect any more than that. Yes, they’re that two-dimensional.
Should add though that not all men are like this. Just the losers we need to give a VERY wide berth. Thank God for real men! They are the only ones able to put the ACs out of business because, once you have a real man, you will never go back to accepting the destructive behaviour of an AC.
Beth,
So I think it all comes down to compatibility and compatibility is a very subtle thing. It has to do with physiology, genetics, temperament, character, etc… It is a very subjective thing. Once a person finds that special someone that resonates with them, they will treat it like a treasure, ofcourse if they realize what they have. Some people are not sensitive, or attuned enough to recognize such a person, or are unlucky to ever meet one. You can be a very beautiful person by many standards but some people’s brains can be hard wired for some other facial features, smell, feel, gestures, sound of voice etc. So it doesn’t mean that your facial features, character or voice are universally repulsive.
I found that even though I and many consider me attractive, some guys aren’t as appreciative of me as others, and those guys most likely won’t be treating me right as well simply because we are not good enough match in some of these very hard to describe areas.
Hi Beth
The fact is an EUM is not going to treat any woman well, particuarly if the women they target are usually EU as well with low self esteem. They are all about being fake with no depth so how can they possibly treat anyone well. They would have to do some serious work/therapy to sort themselves out and the vast majority of them don’t do the work! We all know on BR how hard it is to change and keep moving forward when you acknowledge it to yourself that you have to change. It they haven’t done this = NO CHANGE, SAME BEHAVIOUR. Haven’t you noticed that they are all about being very charming (blowing h0t & cold) but any woman who asserts her needs and who has good self esteem will walk (sorry RUN) away fast and won’t given them the time of day. There is a saying that ‘the people you hang around with shows what you think about yourself’, therefore EUM + EUW = Unavailable, shady behaviour everytime! From my own experience I’ve thought the AC I was seeing over a year ago and knew for 10 yrs was treating some other woman better than me. The fact is he was not. I only had to look with my ‘new’ higher self esteem eyes to see that. The woman was being a doormat and giving him everything on his terms. She looked happy but we’ve all been there and know ‘that look’ is not the true picture of what is going on inside. Reading the body language of both people told me all I needed to know. It made me shiver to see it and I thank god I am no longer in a situation like that. A woman who is involved with an EUM is usually full of confusion, insecurities, low self-esteem (insert the rest etc).
Lioness,
May I say an amen and hallelujah. Gracious, did you just sum it up. I’ve seen “that look” even when my self-esteem was in the toilet. Your comment brought back the “shiver” when I read the body language and saw that look. It’s the unmistakable look of confusion.
Thank you for the reminder. I probably had the same confused look.
My ex was like that. He wanted to stay friends and occasionally we would hook up and now he vanishes. I suppose on his terms he is saying he can jump in and out of my life whenever he wants to and meanwhile can date around and whenever he needs to get his ego stroke he finds me well that isn’t happening in anymore! I will not be someone’s booty call or someone’s option. I sometimes even blamed myself for his vanishing act but at the end of the day I realized it was him not me that had issues and he just needed a ego stroke and I fell for it thinking he wanted to get back together. Do not be someone’s second option ever!
Natalie, I sometimes think you have a mini-camera following me around my life!
This is EXACTLY how my EUM acted toward me (he has a girlfriend of 4+ years). After blowing hot and cold for many months, pulling a disappearing act and then reappearing (when he wanted to “sext”) he came by my place one evening to “hang out.” He said since he’d borrowed his mom’s car to come here, he could only stay a couple of hours or so. Guess what? By the end of the evening, we had a sexual experience …. and I have never felt so empty and used, and so angry at myself for falling for it. I don’t think he could have run out my door any faster, unless his rear end was on fire.
Next thing I know, he pulls a disappearing act AGAIN … saying he felt “kinda guilty, and we have to keep it PG for a bit … but I’d still like to hang out.”
Uh, NO WAY. Thanks to this blog and others’ posts, I have decided never again to be someone’s option or booty call. I’ve blocked his number, Facebook page, and email address; I do not even acknowledge him at work (yes we work at the same place, but not the same department, thank goodness). I don’t know if he’s tried to contact me, and frankly I don’t care anymore. The pain is easing with every passing day, too.
I do pity him, somewhat; he is a very troubled man, with past and current drug and alcohol issues, as well as some serious emotional/mental problems. His current girlfriend is also a big pot user. On the other hand, I now realize A) I cannot “fix” him and B) he is in no shape to give me what I need, and he probably never will be. And I will remain NC.
I spent a year turning down my EUM but was starting to see him again this past 6 months. He called a few months ago and wanted to come over and this was at night. I said I couldn’t as I was getting ready for something in the morning. He started saying ” oh I will leave early” and kept trying to get me to have time for him. I just said naw. I wasn’t playing games I really was in the middle of stuff. Anyway I haven’t heard from him in a few months now. That’s really unusual. When I really sat down to think about it, I realized that was the FIRST time I EVER gave the reason I didn’t want to see him is that I was busy. That is in almost four years. And I haven’t heard from him since.
I want to shout out how happy I am having discovered this place! Thank you so much Natalie, and the lovely people posting here!
One evening out resulted in more than 24 lovely hours. I thought I had found my soulmate (ouch!).
I could post this as a reaction to several articles actually. About being on standby. About being lied to, maybe. Being spontaneous. Guys not wanting to plan ahead. Poofing.. I’d appreciate it big time if you read this.
Beginning of December I went on a date with a guy I got to know through a dating site. He invited me to a concert and it was great! I had booked a hotel because I didn’t feel like depending on having to catch the last train back home. The next day we got together again and had brunch. He suggested to meet again early evening. Our date ended with a genuine hug on the train platform while he waited with me for my last train home
I initiated the second date. We had dinner in my town. Great evening again. He stayed at my place, we slept together but didn’t have sex. He made breakfast for me, we went Christmas shopping, he held me in public, I felt like I had won the lottery.
After that it was me again who did the initiating. On the train one day I texted him that I could jump off for a beer if he felt like it. He did, and by the time I got there he had already booked a restaurant.
We celebrated New Year’s Day together, cooked together, he had bought my favourite wine, we had fun (and sex), breakfast together. He had to work the next day but I could stay at his place, gave me the code of his alarm, wrote down how to get back to the train station. He trusted me with his house and stuff! He has my taste in music! Loves to enjoy life the way I do! Has a great sense of humour!
But that was the last time I saw him. It’s been 4 weeks now.
He has a 7 year old son who’s with him every other week, so we can only see eachother every other weekend. Two weeks ago I asked him if he wanted to have dinner at my place. He couldn’t, busy week, stuff to do in the house, mountainbiking. He tried to fit me in on Saturday night but I felt like I had pushed it so I said he should just enjoy his plans. Later he texted me, saying he hadn’t been feeling well on Friday, he would have been bad company anyway. And that he ended up spending Saturday at work *sad smiley face here*
He sent me nice texts out of the blue. I was thinking, I’ll give it another two weeks till he has the weekend off again.
He told me he had a project in my town, and if they’d get the job, he would have to work here one day a week. He thought I’d like to hear that. Of course I did! Next day I asked him how it went, but the presentation was bad and he didn’t think they would get the job. Never heard about it again.
Last Wednesday I called him at 10pm. He picked up, “hi sweetie !!”, and when I asked how he was, he said he only got home from work half an hour before. And if I would mind him having something to eat while on the phone. I said I would let him unwind and relax. He said he would call me afterwards. When I didn’t hear from after 45′ I texted him saying that he should relax. We’d talk later. He apologized, saying he felt so empty after that long day. I said it was OK, told him I’d feel terrible if he’d call me because he’d feel obliged.
Never heard from him since. Did I make things too easy for him? Did I just boost his ego? Today is Sunday. We could have spent time together this weekend, but he didn’t bring it up once.
I think I confused dating with having a relationship. But I’m such an enthusiastic fool when something nice happens. I’m not a naive person generally. I know people perceive me as an independent woman. But sometimes I tend to jump in with both feet and I lose all sense of reality. I love myself for being able to do that. But now I despise myself for it.
The initiating didn’t make me feel bad in general because he always added something in order to make it extra special. But not meeting two weeks ago should have been a huge red flag for me. We live 45’ apart, not 4 days. I know for a fact that he has a busy job. But he’s not President Obama. There’d be ways to meet if he wanted to. Oh and he went mountainbiking today. He just posted his score on Facebook, haha.
I’ve been feeling drained the last couple of days. A couple of days ago I was thinking about telling him how I feel. I haven’t, fortunately. I decided to do the NC thing instead. I feel very disrespected, but no way I’ll let him know. I’d just waste my energy again.
I’m being realistic now: I met the guy only 2 months ago. We didn’t see eachother for the last 4 weeks. When I re-read this, it sounds like I’ve been living in some stupid fantasy.
Thanks for listening. I…
Wow Orkide,
You got the Houdini act big time. I have not experienced this phenomenon personally but many BR readers have had similar experiences and Natalie did an article a while back (check the archives) on this. As Natalie has said, dating is a discovery phase. You’ve just discovered some critical info: He can run hot as hell for a few months and turn ice cold with no apparent reason. If after 2 months, he disappears for 4 weeks leaving you feeling disrespected that is incredibly important info. Since he isn’t President Obama or one of the GOP contenders and has time to hit the mountain bike trail and has time to post on FB, he’s probably just another one of the twits we all run into, although he sounded like a nice twit from your description. Still a twit. If I were in your shoes and after a year on BR, I would stay NC, block, delete, and defriend. Don’t let him come crawling back with some lame busy excuse. Nobody is that busy for 4 straight weeks and he wasn’t that busy for the 2 prior months. Stay in reality even though you experienced the dreamy stuff. He’s blowing ice cold after 2 months and it doesn’t matter why. It’s a sign. It’s a giant red flag. Opt out. hugs.
Hi runnergirlno1
Thanks for your post.
I know I should block and defriend him. But something in me keeps me from doing it all at once. It has something to do with pride. It may sound stupid to act like this. But I feel like, if I delete him everywhere, he might see that as a sign that I’m sad or angry. And I’d just prefer to keep him hanging for a while. I don’t play childish games usually. Oh how I loathe them. But in this case, I’d like to have him wondering why I just keep doing what I do (except contacting him). For a week or so.
On the other hand, an EUM probably wouldn’t care less… We’ll see.
I’ve been digging in the archives here already! Whenever I tend to wander off and start thinking about the good things and the” why’s oh why’s!”, I read something here. And I feel better. This place is a godsend.
orkide
that’s exactly why you should block and defriend him.
he might see it as a sign of x, y, or z or he may think nothing at all – you’ve no control over that. he could just as easily see it as a sign that you’ve more self-respect than to put up with his BS.
I no longer understand why women feel it reflects badly on them to expect to be treated with decency, respect and even as a PRIORITY. And to flush those who don’t come up to the mark.
what you CAN control is his access to come back and do you over again.
You don’t move on fully when you’re stalking them on FB.
I’ve been there and done all that, a million times over and it was a complete and utter waste of my time, energy and emotion.
orkide
nuke him. “busy” also means “I don’t want to spend too much time with you or initiate anything or make plans in case you get any funny ideas about us being a proper couple”.
THAT’S what they’re too busy for and THAT’S what they’re scared of (should you be someone who likes to use the “he’s scared” excuse). He’s scared all right, but not of how much he loves you.
Grace, thanks.
Even though I see things much clearer already, I have these moments where I start to ask, “why why WHY-Y??”. Like earlier. So I started reading and found the articles about “Compatability, Your Type, and Common Interests “. I was in shock for a moment
That’s me. “He has my taste in music! He loves this and that and so do I! We’re soulmates!”. It’s a pattern. I’ve done this before…
Here’s an excerpt that was an eye-opener for me: “What happens if your ‘soulmate’ has an off day, week, month or a few years?
What happens if your ‘soulmate’ is an illusion that doesn’t hold up to scrutiny?
What happens if your ‘soulmate’ can only exist if you have no boundaries and do things on their terms?
Well actually, you don’t need to wonder because if you’ve been involved with a Mr Unavailable or assclown, the likelihood is that part of the reason why you’re still there is because when he briefly exhibited ‘wonderful’ qualities and characteristics, you convinced yourself that you’d found your soulmate because he created ‘feelings’, and then you committed yourself to a voyage trying to get him to be that way again even though he had shown that he was consistently a different person.”
Had myself fooled by a complete twit again. And the idea that I consider myself an intelligent woman but I still go all sad over a guy that I haven’t seen for 4 weeks… I have some serious work to do. Hell.
Amen to that! Thanks – that’s just what I wanted to read today!
I’ve read through these posts and I know how the women having problems with these types of men feel. I had similar problems in the past. Gut wrenching experiences with these men. But I finally came to a conclusion. The men you talk of. The non committing, blase, hot and cold, selfish men. They will NEVER change. Not for you anyway and probably not for anyone else. And it is a waste of time to analyse and obsess and wonder and play into their games all the time. It’s self destructive. And while you are focusing on these children you are missing out on opportunities with REAL men. Nice men. Respectful men. Men with empathy and understanding for other people. Men who strive to improve themselves not just for you but for themselves and who make you want to be the best person YOU can. I know these men exist because once I gave up on the idiot men, I met a real man. And I thank myself all the time for realising I needed to let go of the idiots and be happy with myself (and with being single) and hence open myself up to the greatest love of my life.
Strength and wisdom to you all.
After a 3 yr relationship with an EUM, I finally feel ready to get back out there. I am a nurse and I’m really interested in a doctor that I would with. He is a great person and really good with his patients. We have talked to each other on a professional basis but I finally decided to take it further and ask him out. Just as I had decided to take a chance, the EUM came back into my life out of no where. Now I am totally confused. I really want to see where things go with this doctor but it is awkward to ask him out at work. I do not even know if he is interested or if he is really nice to everyone. Then this EUM ex pops back up and throws a monkey wrench in my life. I know that the EUM will never be able to fulfill me but it’s so hard to let go.
WOW!!!! Awesome article and also the story of my life with my ex ASSCLOWN douche bag who I let downgrade me from girlfriend to F-buddy!! Huge mistake!! But we live and learn and I am now 7 days NC and going strong!!! THIS SITE HAS BEEN A LIFESAVER!!! I happened on it by chance a few days ago and I have not read one article that I could not 100% relate to!! This article is great!! Just what I needed today! THANKS!!!!
:):)