If you’re involved with someone who backs off once they feel in control of the dynamic and then blows hot when they’re uncertain about you and basically out of control, that’s someone who lacks self-awareness and is running off of their feelings. When they feel panicky as the intimacy builds, or their desire wanes as they become vulnerable or when normality kicks in and you each have to deal with life’s inevitables’s, they’ll respond to those feelings and bail / play up and not consider the fact that they have intimacy and problem solving issues. They’ll claim, yet again, that something wasn’t right with the relationship or their exes. They have typical responses to their feelings but don’t really dig too deep (if at all) for reasoning and knowledge that would help them read their feelings and make more authentic choices grounded in a healthy sense of self.
A lot of what we do with regards to attraction is driven by instinct, and our instincts and intuition are very much governed by how connected we are to ourselves.
Do we feel all of our feelings? Are we willing to be emotionally honest and listen to our own thoughts and feelings? Do we live by our values? Do we even know what our needs, expectations, and desires are and how to step up for most of these as well as how to healthily seek them in others? Are we responsible and accountable, or do we tend to look for external solutions to internal problems? Do we, for instance, blame it all on qualities or characteristics of our ex when our relationships break down or even claim that all of our exes are ‘psychos’? Do we act first, think later? Do we get carried away and place too much stock in our intentions and so end up Future Faking and Fast Forwarding? Do we edge or even dive out of relationships claiming that we don’t want a relationship and aren’t up for commitment and then have our ex’s feeling more than a tad confused when they see us prancing around with a new partner claiming that they’re the ‘love of our life’ in two shakes of a lamb’s tail?
You may recognise flip-flapping, hot and cold blowing exes who you’ve probably lost some sleep over wondering why they’re with someone else and not you. You may be blaming you when actually, it’s not about you.
If we’re disconnected from aspects of ourselves, our instincts will be off base and this means that until we’re aware of the patterns of thinking and behaviour that result from us running off what we believe to be the ‘correct’ information from our instincts, we’ll be driven primarily by feelings that we may not be aware of the origins of or may even be mislabeling them. The less we truly know about ourselves and the trickier we find it to have an honest conversation with us and be willing to look within, is the more muddled our intuition will be, which in turn will mess with our instincts, which will not only affect our fight or flight response, but also who we’re attracted to.
This means that not only do we have to stop owning other people’s behaviour to the extent that we do but that we also have to recognise that we ourselves are going to be making some unhealthy ‘instinctive’ decisions if we don’t know ourselves either and have our own emotional unavailability issues to deal with.
We cannot expect to be in a mutually fulfilling relationship with the landmarks – consistency, commitment, balance, progression and intimacy plus shared values – if we lack the self-knowledge that stems from knowing our own needs, expectations, wishes, feelings, and opinions. Not knowing these is why we wake up knee-deep in a relationship feeling hungry and recognising that there are issues around compatible values.
When we are willing to know ourselves more, we change not only who we’re attracted to (and why) but are also happier with the results of who we’re attracted to, instead of carrying the same baggage, beliefs, behaviours and attitudes and choosing similar people and then wondering why we’re getting the same results, and then lather, rinse, repeat.
Until we’re willing to recognise and represent ourselves, not only will we struggle to have self-trust, but we’ll be living off of our feelings and lamenting why we can’t make a healthy relationship with an unhealthy attraction. The two things don’t match! We won’t have the instincts to assert our boundaries, because we won’t have the self-awareness to use reasoning and knowledge to back us up. The way we treat our feelings will keep leading us astray.
Change doesn’t come without change. The most radical change you may have to make is being willing to know yourself more. That can only be a good thing.
Your thoughts?
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Great article! I absolutely agree. Until we have that honest conversation with ourselves we usually waste our time pretending we don’t care and caring nonetheless… about the wrong kind of people!
In my case, now I know that I want a consistent, loving relationship with low-to-none levels of drama. What is more important, I am positive that my needs are legitimate and important, so I actually don’t feel attracted to “bad girls” the way I used to.
And this is brilliant! And I have to thank this site and Natalie for it, too!
THIS. I have lived far too long pretending not to care about things that bust my boundaries, no matter now small the issue may be. How do I continuously get trapped into thinking that my needs aren’t legitimate?
Thank you for this response, I need to remember that my needs are important, and if I can’t get them in my relationships, then those relationships aren’t right for me!
Oh, wow, your writing is so superb Natalie.
I knew my ex wasn’t for me but I let my libido and unresolved past get the best of me for a few months.
My ex and I were incompatible on most levels; I just didn’t know myself and tried to latch onto his being and couldn’t fully see how bad we were for each other at the time.
I made mistakes and dated someone with whom it couldn’t last. I am better for it.
I could have written that myself. I need to read this post again.
OMG, this may be your best post ever, Natalie. It gets into a whole new layer of depth regarding why we keep getting attracted to certain types we know aren’t good for us, and how our lack of self knowledge allows us to keep picking the same style of rats.
For me, it’s been cheaters.
Show me a room filled with a hundred women, with 99 who consider being faithful a sacred obligation to a relationship, and one who cheats like a dog, and I will lock eyes with the cheater and I’ll see **magic**.
Recently, when I was trying hard to manage a permanent break-up with a love addiction-fueled affair with a married rat (I’d also been involved with a decade ago), I just couldn’t kill the attraction I had to who I thought she was, so all my attempts to leave her were unsuccessful because I’d start to miss and go back.
So, after going the through the insane makeup breakup cycle at least twice a month since last September, I decided I would go back one last time, but this time I started to really pay attention AND WRITE DOWN creepy things she did that I noticed, like her words and actions never matching, her attempts to lessen the number of crumbs she was giving me, her decreased availability, the way she stopped using terms of endearment with me, her saying the wife was suspicious so we had to play it cool for a few days, and all the usual bullshit cheaters say after they have chased, conquered, gotten what they wanted and were ready to dump the other other woman and start the hunt for some fresh prey.
So, as I was writing all this down, it was easy to see that I was the only one who was actively trying to salvage things and she was pushing every button in sight to piss me off and push me away…again.
I am not a therapist so I knew she had some kind of screw loose, but I wasn’t certain if the screw was vital to the success or failure of a potential future with her, so I chose to ignore it.
But…once I saw with my own eyes how she not trying to reconcile but instead she was playing some kind of psycho game with me, I started to read my notes and circle words or phrases that kept coming up, like broken promises,forgetting agreements, blowing hot and cold, etc.
And I started Googling the words or phrases.
They all led to one major thing: Passive Aggressive disorder, which therpists consider a form of covert abuse.
I checked out several sites for the symptoms and she nailed all of them. I researched the treatment prognosis for PAs and they were not encouraging.
And finally I googled “living with a passive aggressive” and I “scared back to sanity.” It was OVAH.
So finally, I realized that this phony I loved was a total liar, too crazy to deal with and not likely to seek treatment, so the attraction almost immediately turned to revulsion and the next day I wrote to her and my words were so blunt and my accusations were so provable, she just chickened out and for the first time, SHE said it was over. YAY!
I was free!
But then I knew the issue I had of attracting cheaters was because I was attracted to cheaters, so that was the thing I needed to sort out.
And I spent every spare minute of a whole week digging around and reading data, taking notes, and finally figuring out that self awareness leads to self esteem and that leads to me attracting like minded, deserving and sane, trustworthy people– that is, once I get myself together with healthy self esteem and self love.
I am happy to report that any thoughts of the ex that come up lately are not the kind that would make me want to reconcile–they are the kind that make never want to talk to, see or hear from her again.
Natalie, you’ve helped me start getting real and you’ve given me tools to dig deep enough to locate where the biggest problems inside of me were located. They all centered around my poor self esteem and how it has kept me from achieving way more than I am capable of.
No more.
Now I know I have treated myself like shit for too long, and I plan to make it up to me and never again accept any losers who spot weakness and pounce.
There is no weakness like that anymore. Go find another mark, cheaters of the world. I am out of your league now, suckers. Oh, and do you like my new watch? It was a reward I got myself for finally getting it. 😀
Karen… Awesome post.. Looking back I realize most of my relationships ended up being with cheaters. The last was a narcissist-cheater.. AS painful as it has been I am so glad its over. I hate roller coasters and I rode one for a very long time in the name of what I thought was love… Ughhhh
Nice post, Karen. So much of what you had to say also echoes my own situation. What I finally had to come to terms with, and you also may have to, is that I knowingly got involved with a married person–and I shouldn’t have. How could you possibly expect it to work? What we both need to do is put a BOUNDARY in place. No more relationships with married/committed people. By taking care of ourselves in this way, we are helping ourselves to increase our self-esteem. We can do it and we are worth it. Good luck Karen, and hey, nice watch! My breakup present to myself was a new kitchen floor 🙂
“lamenting why we can’t make a healthy relationship with an unhealthy attraction”
I need to paste these words somewhere I’ll always see them. I have a tricky situation where my feelings have grown for someone who is unavailable, seemingly in a shaky relationship, and it appears he might want to be available. Yes, I know!
I’m very aware of my choices and patterns of the past, I might call my ex heartless but I know my part in it, and I’ve spent a lot of time here, turning around my vision of relationships and what I should expect from them. I’ve tried very hard with this new person to let go of the feelings and to quit, to see the simple facts and forget the speculation, and in my actions if not my thoughts, I’ve looked after myself. I’ve asked deep questions about why I have these feelings, looked into my past, built up my life so I spend more time with friends and doing the things I love. I can say with a lot of certainty that he would have to be available and ready to commit before any kind of progression, and I don’t believe he would try any different. He started off ‘assclown till proven innocent’ but seems ‘innocent’ now. I do not want to sit by and wait for things to go wrong with him and her. I’m not that kind of woman anymore. My friend tells me I’ve been distant towards him and not reciprocated what he offers (not as friendly and open) even if my feelings are the opposite. Before the BR journey, I would have worked harder to pursue him, and quickly ended up lamenting my failure, not accepting it was just the wrong time and I was trying to achieve the impossible.
I have no solid proof that it isn’t all in my mind, he suggests that he wants some kind of future and our conversation is very even but maybe he’s like this with others and is all talk. But I think ‘what if it’s love’.. because that’s what it feels like. But wow have I been wrong there in the past. BR has helped me because I know only time and actions will tell, and there are concrete things I can do to look after myself until then, but still it’s hard not to feel vulnerable. I can’t seem to forget about him, could it be that as much as I’ve learned, my instincts haven’t changed? As I write this, I fear I might be making a big warm walnut loaf out of crumbs, but on the other hand I’ve come so far and might be mistrusting myself too much.
One thing I know now is it will not be my failure if I’ve got this all wrong, I will be sad but maybe it just isn’t achievable.
Any words of advice? Is it a straightforward ‘flush?!’ I think I know what readers will say!
Happy, The guy is in a relationship, so that means he’s probably lying to her so he can sneak out to see you. Cheaters have perfected the kind of flattery and reassurance women who are willing to cheat with them need to get hooked. They are so good at we develop images of them as “good decent guys who just need a little more time to exit their marriage in an honorable way because they don’t the wife to be hurt too much.”
They always start worrying about the wife’s feelings after they’ve nailed the other woman. Happy, you deserve a love who has space in his life for you full-time.
This other woman scene is bullshit. It’s a con game many if us have fallen for at least once, but it rarely ends well. My advice? Read some of Natalie’s posts on the topic until you can’t read any more. If you still feel like being with guy, read more. You know what you need to do for yourself, right? You deserve more.
Happy, loads of guys (and girls) in a perfectly secure relationship will pretend to others (who can be none the wiser) that it’s shaky for no reason other than to try to get sympathy, or a bit of ego-boosting interest, or a shag, from someone else hanging around the perimeter. It’s the ‘yep I still got it!’ syndrome. In other words, it’s all about him, not about you.
They deliberately leave things cloudy and vague so that they can a) see how far they can get with this just for a bit of fun, then b) turn around and deny they ever said anything as any kind of promise or encouragement to you. When challenged by wives/gfs/friends/rellies, they will swear up and down that they were just sitting there innocently eating a ham and cheese sandwich when you walked in, removed your clothes apropos of nothing, and suddenly they ‘realised’ something was happening. They’ll stand there trying their best to look astonished as they tell the tale, with this poppy-eyed, arched eyebrow, half grin on their faces, giving the wife/gf/etc the knowing elbow nudge and roll of the eye about how you must be a flippin lunatic or something, thinking that they — THEY! — were available and interested.
See through the smoke and mirrors Happy — there’s a reason why you’re not quite sure what he’s thinking doing or feeling, or where you stand, or what the possibilities might be. Because that’s exactly where he wants you.
Karen, Grizelda, I’m half crying, half laughing, and thinking you’re both amazing ladies who have probably saved me a lot of heartache.
First, I heard from someone else, not him, that his relationship was shaky – but he doesn’t mention it at all, except there was just one time and reluctantly. I found this very unusual, that he should talk about the big things in his life, houses, jobs, plans, holidays etc., and always say ‘I’ not ‘we’.
Second, there’s no cheating or sneaking around… that’s my first thought. There’s nothing ‘going on’. But, he’s twice flaked out of plans to meet with me and someone else working on our project, and rearranged things just with me when the other guy is away. The first time I said I was busy, the second time I made it and that’s when I got hooked. I thought maybe he just didn’t want to meet with the other guy or might not like the dynamics of us 3. But we’re all pretty friendly.
And then when we met, he said we should arrange a trip to Spain and work on a project together, and later that the place we met should be our regular hangout, oh and that I should live in his neighbourhood.
I don’t want to jump to conclusions – I really haven’t spent much time with him. He’s not the massive charmer that my ex was and even though I’ve opened up to him, he’s also been open about himself. But still it looks shady, and that was my first feeling before I walked into his web.
What was I thinking? That he’s maybe just being friendly, we have common interests, it might develop when the time is right – or maybe he likes me and doesn’t want to make a move while he’s unavailable. It’s bizarre to have this change of perspective, that it’s no longer about ‘is he actually interested in me’, but looks like he could be effing with me. Sh*t. Looks like the very definition of smoke and mirrors. While I’ve been thinking it might all be in my head and he’s just being friendly, it’s gone far enough for him to have been straight with me if he was genuinely interested or to have put me off if he wasn’t. That’s just the kind of ambiguity I swore I’d avoid. Just because I can challenge him and hold my own doesn’t make it any better, it’s still headed for hell and it will be hard work to get out of it. Like I said, I don’t want to condemn him until I know more, but this really changes things. Now as far as I’m concerned, he’s someone I will need to stay in contact with and can be civil, but I’m not meeting him alone unless he gives me a damn good and straight reason. He’s in for a shock if he thinks he’s got me where he wants me!
Lorraine,
The “I” instead of “we” thing isn’t that unusual, I once spent 4 hours in a car with someone who kept saying “I” about holiday and other plans when I was sure he was married. I really started to wonder if Mrs had passed away and I hadn’t heard! Eventually there was an opportunity to say something like “won’t the airfares be very expensive for all FIVE of you to go to New Zealand?” Without missing a beat he answered me and it was clear that he was still very much in a “we” situation. I don’t know why some men do it, whether on purpose to be suggestive, or they just are too narcissistic to use the W word , but in any event I would either ignore it completely and assume it signifies nothing, or come right out with it – “Can’t your wife )and kids make it on holiday”, said in a concerned, sympathetic way.
Pay no attention to other peoples gossip about his relationship, either. How would they know. Even in the best marriages there can be conflict, arguments, complaining.
He’s being suggestive but that’s not a nice thing to do. If he’s free he will just ask you out, simples.
Sorry, that comment was for happy b.
Sister, you are in the justifying zone. Even if his current relationship is “shaky,” he needs to put his attention on either making it better with her or else cutting it off. Then he needs time to heal and get over her before he is ready for your superfox greatness. Don’t be his airbag or fallback girl. I’ve been in your shoes. Only heartbreak ahead.
Mymble, Oregon, thanks for more reality check.
I feel so terrible. I played a part in this, I denied his relationship as much as he did, and when I look back at our messages, I was friendly towards him, maybe I even started it. I don’t know how things changed from that first time we met 2 years ago when I saw the ring and thought ‘oh right, not a prospect’, to the way it’s blown up now. I think I was simply interested in knowing him better and having some kind of friendship becuase we were in the same boat career-wise, and we work together in a team. Then I guess he suggested there could be something more and I got right in the justifying zone. It took about 2 years for me to like someone that much after being a long-time FBG, and now I’ve nearly walked right into another trap.
It’s the ambiguity that gets me, that because there is nothing declared, I don’t deal with it, e.g. I didn’t look up Natalie’s OW posts because I’m not in a relationship with him, anything about relationships on here I thought doesn’t apply to me right now. i just seemed to be falling for someone who might be interested in me. What a blessing that this post came up. This is a big wake-up call as it could go on like this for months, years.
HappyB,
He’s married? That’s a big red stop sign…. better yet, it’s a big fat ‘one way’ sign going the other direction. It means don’t go this way! Same here, you are thinking about putting yourself in a bad situation where the probable outcome is painful. Not only are you considering driving into oncoming traffic, it’s not right. Troubled or not, he is married. That alone is enough info to heed the stop sign, regardless of any messages, niceness, or ambiguity. Forget any ideas you had about him and move on. Find a man who is available, because this man isn’t, unless you like borrowing.
I don’t think he is married, though that was my initial assumption, I don’t know, but unavailable either way.
If he isn’t wearing a ring, you still have to ask. Are you married? Two years ago I got involved with a sailor–they do not wear rings because of their work, and at first I assumed he was single. I started to guess that he might be married, but I did not ask him because deep down I did not want to find out…I should have. After two years of being with him, breaking up because he would not get a divorce is the most painful thing I have ever done in my life. My new rule: look for a ring. If there isn’t one, ASK ANYWAY.
Oh, I guess I misunderstood when I read that you saw the ring and and decided he wasn\’t a prospect. I may have missed earlier posts of yours that may have expanded on that. Sorry about that Happy B. Even so, please be careful( and smart) …him in a relationship is still a stop sign in my book. Why set yourself up?
Selkie, it’s not you, it is confusing, ring but not married. You are right and I will run, though not easy as we have many ties. Amazing how someone can become a big part of your life without planning/ realising it. One of the most troubling things for me has been the thought that he came into my life and changed it, all for nothing. But as I saw written somewhere else here (pinterest), he will have to be part of my history, not my destiny, and he’s taught me a great lesson. I’m still vulnerable to sleepwalking into the same old dynamic and not ready for a relationship, and that means I can focus on just being me for now.
Oregon, thanks, this marriage stuff is a whole new thing to me, I spent so many years as an FBG from a young age and emerged into a grown up world where people are more likely than not to be married, how bizarre!
Since finding this site, I’m really just beginning to understand who I am and how I got to this point. It has forced me to look at myself in ways I never dared to before.
I came out of a bad marriage when I literally ran into Mr. EU AC I was totally unavailable myself, not ready for a real relationship although I thought otherwise. Five years later with the AC, I finally felt ready for the real thing. I am ready for the real thing. Unfortunately the AC is an AC and always will be.
I know once I get over him, which is the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do, I will be healthier and available for the right man.
It’s just the getting over him that’s the hard part. How do I still love him, even though I’ve gotten to know myself so much better and know its only crumbs he will only ever be able to give anyone?
I feel like I’m just beginning to get to know myself again. It’s all good, right?
“How do I still love him, even though I’ve gotten to know myself so much better and know its only crumbs he will only ever be able to give anyone?”
Lorraine, I can relate to this so much. And it really is all good, though it’s tough at first. What worked for me was not waiting for that intense feeling of love and connection to fade before starting to get over the person. Just accept that it’s there, but it doesn’t serve you long term in having the best, most fulfilling life. And carry on.
It took me a while to get over my ex because I put too much emphasis on the strong connection I felt for him. If i felt like this, it must be right, right? Well no. It’s addiction. Waiting for those feelings to fade is like waiting to not want heroin anymore before you give it up. I accepted that i was going to feel ‘love’ for him, but that I was going to separate from him anyway because the kind of love we had was incredibly destructive. Then I started to invest all that time and energy I used to spend on him in myself. It changed me. Now, those feelings for him are utterly gone. I feel nothing for him now, and am at the beginning of doing exactly what Natalie says here – finding myself attracted to reliable, non-game playing, kind men (which is showing up my OWN commitment issues, of course, but that’s what I’m ready to work on.) It’s exciting and a bit frightening. I wouldn’t even have seen these guys a few years ago, they were not on my radar, because I was looking for the unwinnable game. So it really does work. Change yourself, and your world changes magically. Onwards! With Natalie’s help – and therapy helps too – it really is possible to actually be happy instead of turning ourselves inside out for these fucked up individuals, for absolutely zero gain.
Nickster,
You are so right. “Waiting for those feelings to fade is like waiting to not want heroin anymore before you give it up”. I’ve got to find a way to move on even though my heart is pulling me in a different direction.
It’s a little more difficult because he lives on my block and does contact me, but I feel almost ready to totally block him from all devices. I’ve found over the past three months that every encounter, every text, every time he “needs” something, just sets me back to square one in recovery.
I will work on me as you say and I hope that soon I will be where you are. I know for sure, when I start dating again, UGH! I will be so aware of red flags and ready to run at the first sign of EU or AC behavior.
Hugs to you and thanks.
Lorraine
Thanks for this article. Very true. I’ve learned that sex clouds my thinking. When your having sex before really getting to know the person you ignore the red flags and sometimes your own values.
Yet another excellent article!
Thank you Natalie.
This is my ex, most certainly, blowing hot and cold as you describe at the beginning of the article. It’s helped me understand him better (it wasn’t all down to me, it was him and his lack of self-awareness!), and why the dynamic didn’t work. Thank you for opening our eyes to quite a complex, but at the same time completely sensical concept.
Thank you Natalie for yet another superb piece. I found this blog a couple of days after the EUM told me he “didn’t see a future” (of course he only made this admission when I confronted him about his recent lack of communication). I was broken. I googled ‘Coping with rejection’ and was brought here- for this I am so grateful. Your posts have helped me to see that his rejection of the relationship had nothing to do with me. Thankfully I found this site before I caved to texting or e-mailing him… And I just did my first NC count – 73 days! There’s no going back from that. Unfortunately I am still ‘ruminating’ but I have so much more clarity about the situation thanks to these posts. I can feel myself healing. Thank you Natalie for everything you do. xx
Day 44 of NC…..really struggled the last couple of days. There were a few brief moments of insanity, where I even found myself entering the justifying zone! Thankfully I didn’t do anything stupid! I’m working on myself daily with the help of BR and some personal TLC. I’m looking forward to the day when I no longer feel the pain…that will be a fine day indeed!
I’m trying to not dwell on the past 2 years too much however I can’t seem to stop feeling sorry for myself at the moment, sorry that I put myself through it, sorry that I allowed myself to get into something so deep that I lost all perspective, sorry that I caused so much pAin and suffering for myself by staying in it for so long….there’s quite a bit of self loathing going on as you may have gathered, I’m hopeful though that I can learn from my mistakes and not take them into my next relationship.
Ps. Is anyone else dreading February 14 th as much as I am?
Mel,
Congratulations on 44 days of NC. You should celebrate not loathe yourself. I’ve also had a tough week. We had too much contact and all it did was churn up every bad emotion and pain. I’m starting from scratch here trying to get over him.
I don’t, however, put the blame on me. Until I found BR, I was clueless about this Unavailable personality disorder thing. I totally felt that I could love him enough to want a long term committed relationship with me. I’ve learned so much from Natalie and the ladies here. So don’t be so hard on yourself and blaming yourself. We were together five years and broken up numerous times, the last was over 3 months ago when he started seeing his ex. (still won’t admit to it) I’m still digging myself out of this horrible hole every single day.
And yes, I’m dreading Valentines Day. I usually hate Valentines Day, I always thought it was stupid anyway, but I’m already falling apart knowing he will be with her for VD. It’s killing me already.
This man has broken me to a point that I no longer recognize myself. With the support here, I’m hopeful… Thats our goal, right, no more pain.
Hugs,
Lorraine
Hi Lorraine,
I haven’t been posting as much as I used to, but I remember your situation. It seems you are pretty much where you’ve been for quite awhile now. If you really want to get rid of this dude you can. You just have to be very serious about your intentions where he is concerned and do not deviate from your position. You have a lot to do with why you are still running into him and feeling setbacks because of it. Ask yourself – are you secretly enjoying these “chance” meetings, hoping for that loaf of bread Instead of crumbs? Be serious. It doesn’t have to be this way if you are through. If you’ve really seen that he is not for you, then your behavior should reflect that. Don’t give yourself excuses. Love yourself first. Respect YOU. DON’T PLAY GAMES, because you are not helping yourself move on. Pamper YOU for Valentine’s Day and STOP thinking about who he is with or what he is doing. If he was doing the same you would not be where you are now. He’d be with YOU.
Hi Tinkerbell,
I have noticed you that you haven’t been posting much lately. Miss your words of wisdom.
I know I’m not over him. It’s been a little over three months and every time I start to feel like I’m moving forward again and putting the whole mess behind me, he shows up and it sets off every emotion I have all over again.
I become hopeful that, ok, he’s changed, which turns into disappointment. I know, its the whole disappointment cycle. Lather, rinse repeat…
After this past week, I do feel ready to be done with him. I haven’t gone running, I don’t want to run into him. I will change the time I run to make sure I don’t from now on.
Through this site and you ladies, I’ve learned that this is an unhealthy addiction and I can’t wait until I no longer love him to cut him out of my life.
I’m trying to make progress, I’m learning and taking your advice.
Thanks,
Lorraine
Lorraine,
If it helps Nat has written several posts about EUM’s suddenly turning into the perfect man (you know, the one he wasn’t with you) with another woman. I can’t remember the names of them but some readers here will probably know the ones I mean.
Basically, leopards don’t change their spots and if he is an EU AC with you he’s going to be the same in his next relationship with the next woman.
Who he is with you is who he is going to be with the next woman and the woman after that so spare a few thoughts for his next victims.
If your thinking he’s going to be the perfect Prince Charming and fantastic Mr Wonderful with someone else on VD that’s a just a fantasy running through your mind and the reality is going be a lot different.
Valentines day is just another day and full of marketing hype to make MONEY. I know, in the past I worked for a company who decided to run a valentines day range and WOW, did it make money or what.
Sales increased every year and what started out as a fun teenage thing for kids has now turned into a huge pressure, disaster and depression day for so many women and men who are grieving the breakup with a former partner.
This is so sad and totally unnecessary because it’s pressure we put on ourselves.
The ex AC had me on my knees, devastated and no idea of what or how to get myself back up again. BR has saved and changed so many people on here and all I can say is hang in there because slowly but surely you will get over him. It’s a hard journey but well worth it when you realise how much you have changed yourself and your life for the better.
Baby steps girl, and take the valentines day pressure off yourself.
Mel, I am also totally dreading Feb. 14th. It has been about three weeks since my breakup and it has been quite challenging to say the least. I have gone from crying a ton, not eating, and barely being able to leave my house for fear of crying, to being able to go to work, yoga, walk my dog, and do other things in a better mood.
This post is really helpful as it helps to realize not only what it is in ourselves that is attracted to these people so we can be aware and hopefully change it for the better, but also to realize a lot of the situation is not really us.
I think Feb. 14th is hard here because it is so well marketed, but it is such a cheesy holiday. I am also dreading it as my ex bf is finalizing his papers on his house that day and getting his keys-which was a time I had hoped to be happy for him with his new life changes…
I will be so glad when that day is over this year…
I am finding NC to be so hard…was able to do it for one week and then I have tried to contact him to no avail-as he blocks anyone from his life when he gets frustrated. I do know that it is not me that was unable to handle this relationship because once again, he is so mad at his “friends” that he has closed down his Facebook account again-something he does for months at a time until he needs an ego stroke.
and you may be thinking he is a teenager, but no…he is 32 years old!!
Mel, I’m on day 16 of NC so hang in there and let’s keep going together. Don’t dread Feb 14, look at it as a way for you to honor your mother, your girlfriends, single women you know, and etc. Get some chocolates and valentines for THEM and focus on making someone else’s day brighter. When evening falls and you are sitting all alone on your couch, find a good movie to watch and then take a sleeping pill and go to bed early. Before you know it, it will be Feb. 15 and you will have survived it. That’s what I’m going to do 🙂
I can’t help but think of Valerie Treirweiler (the until recently ‘First Girlfriend of France’). Hollande met her and cheated on his very long-term partner (and mother of his children) with her. They then became an item when his long-term partner kicked him out. A few years later, he’s President of France and she lives in the Elysee Palace, and now she finds he’s cheating on her with another woman who happens to be already married herself… and as tragic as that all is, Trierweiler acts shocked and surprised. Repeat. Acts shocked and surprised.
But why? She loves cheaters. That’s how they got it together. She expected what, him to become someone else? Him to display some other kind of behaviour? Him to forsake his inherent personality disorder and start recognising that human beings have feelings and change his behaviour according to other people’s wishes? Oh AS IF. She might as well have assumed he was going to turn into a purple duck for her.
She could do with better self-knowledge, but then she could also do with better knowledge of others’ behaviour. That’s one woman badly in need of Baggage Reclaim. A few nights reading these articles over several glasses of wine is much better therapy than anything a week in a Paris hospital can do.
So true, Grizelda. Is it a big leap to assume that ‘he who cheats with you will cheat on you’? Exception to the rule? Yeah…..that and a quarter.
I wasn’t the OW, I was the W. I know there are a lot of women here who were the OW, and I’d like to say that everything they tell you about W is a bunch of bunk. What they say about OW when W catches them is ….well, not nice.
Moral of the story: W or OW, we all pay the price for not listening.
So true!
Excellent observations!
Mel
Dreading Feb so much that I have arranged to go out with a female friend! Thank goodness it is only one day. I am currently going through the not good enough for an AC/EUM I met online. He future faked and fast forwarded me that I had no idea what was real. This had never happened to me before so I have been left confused and upset. I have been NC for 20 days and whilst in the beginning I felt okay in the first week I am now itching to contact him ( my pride won’t let me though) I know he has moved onto a new victim and is doing the same to her but I don’t understand why I miss someone I barely knew who displayed many red flags in the 1st few days! Onwards and upwards I hope
Ah yes! This describes my now ex-bf and our breakup perfectly..grrrrr. It feels so unfair!
I broke NC this week, after 8 months….the AC is a neighbour only 5 doors down, so we do run into each other. But it was an interesting experience and showed me how much I have grown and know myself now. Some things were triggered in me for sure….but knowing that he is an AC and always will be (regardless of how he looks with his smokescreen girlfriend around)….knowing that he isn’t sorry for his behaviour or even tapped into his emotions/behaviour/etc….knowing all this made me realize that I am not attracted anymore at all. He’s a good-looking man and we had great sex….but in the past, I was attracted to the fantasy of what I thought he was and the potential of what he could be. Knowing that in reality he is an AC, and keeping my whole being in reality gave me a whole new perspective. It was a fantastic learning experience for me…my intuition and instincts are no longer off 🙂
What was also interesting is that breaking NC was a conscious choice because I wanted to see what it felt like from my new state of personal growth. I had reason to contact him about a skating rink that he’s made on the river that I use with my kids and access through his property. I joked around a bit and expressed my gratitude for his efforts. He ended up telling me that his mum had passed away (an overt mummy lover) and I offered condolences and a bit of support. I could feel my own discomfort about acting “too familiar” and backed off. But it was interesting to see my tendencies as a giver and his patterns of being a taker. Not once did he ask about me or how I was doing….even face-to-face! Knowing all about narcissism and narcissistic harems, I know that he will take what he can get from anyone….and it feels good to know that I don’t want to be part of a harem in any sense of the matter. I could even feel my ego wanting to be stroked for being so nice and supportive….but went back to myself. Looking at what is it that I really need.
I like being able to share this in this forum. This ‘exercise’ or ‘test’ I gave myself, was a great learning opportunity. But I was ready for it and it was a conscious choice on my part and something I even discussed with my counsellor who is well versed in all-matters-of-assclownery. This test was about me…learning about me. I’ve come a long way Baby! 🙂
And now I will return to NC. And if feels effortless and natural. And I feel grounded and in tune with myself. And I know I can handle any run-ins that might occur without the vulnerability, naivete, and pulls of the past. A great opportunity to not get hooked in old patterns.
And here is something I believe and feel to be true….when we have grown,and when we’re really “not that woman anymore”….we literally resonate a different energy. And these AC’s and EUM’s can feel that. And they know that they can’t get anything from you any longer. They need the “old you” to get what they need….and that’s another reason why they’re with somebody else….somebody who’s just like you used to be. But I’m not that woman anymore…and never ever want to be again 🙂
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/im-not-that-woman-an-ode-for-every-woman-who-has-loved-lost-and-forgotten-her-value/
DunrobINE,
Okay, so now you are feeling confident and self satisfied? Prove it to yourself. No more “tests” for him or for you. That’s showing insecurity and indecision. You’re not that person, anymore. Right?
Yes Tinkerbell…and it’s not because I have you to answer to. There is a beautiful quote, “As soon as you trust yourself, you will know how to live” (Johann Goethe). And through all of the work I’ve done (only a bit of which you are privy to on this site), one of the biggest gifts I’ve received is the ability to finally trust myself. I’m crystal clear here. This test was also a spiritual thing for me, because that is another path that I am on. The test was not an avenue to gain confidence and self-satisfaction. It came from a healthy place of confidence and self satisfaction.
“The Buddha taught that freedom is going beyond conditions. For me, the people who have been through the harshest conditions—and survived—have the greatest potential to transform the madness of their lives. See, that madness made them who they are. So if they can take that madness, claim it, and stand on top of its incredible energy, they can transform it into authentic power”.
And Tinkerbell….I appreciate the questioning and feedback/input/support. This is great stuff and helps me, and all of us to stay REAL 🙂
DunrobINE,
I’m glad you’re doing well. It’s a wonderful feeling to realize yourself how much you’ve changed and become much more grounded in reality. I can barely recognize the woman I was 3 years ago. I was a mess. I still have work to do on myself. We never reach perfection, but we can do/feel a tremendous improvement from where we were. All the best. Tink.
Tink,
beautifully said. I too, am but a shadow of my former messy self. Onwards and upwards….there is no going back. We keep climbing up the rungs of an invisible ladder with our growth and self-awareness….and although we may slip, we never go down as far as when we first began the ascent 🙂
DunrobINE
My ex AC is also a neighbor. Diagonally across the street. It makes NC so much harder, doesn’t it? You hit it on the head though, attracted to the fantasy, great sex, and potential… They really are emotionally bankrupt. I think thats also part of my problem, I keep waiting for this man to get a conscience or show real emotions, when he has none at all.
So happy you no longer feel anything for him. When I run into the AC, its like starting all over from scratch with the heartache. After too much contact this past week, I had the lowest day of my life yesterday, truly hit rock bottom. An emotional breakdown for sure. But reading this post and all this great advice, today is a new day, I feel a touch better than yesterday and I know somehow the pendulum will swing once again.
Lorraine
Lorraine,
please stop waiting for the impossible and keep the focus on you. Having the exAC physically close can make NC harder, but it doesn’t have to. I did 8 months NC with many times wanting to lash out in anger or whatever….but kept the focus on me and my own healing journey. Each time I resisted contact and addressed what was going on within me was a huge success. I really believe what Nat says in this post. Once your self-knowledge and self-love are in order, these unhealthy attractions will no longer exist. Each run-in I have had with him (because he kept trying a bit at the beginning) was an opportunity for me to practise having boundaries. Remember, things can still be stirred or triggered….but when you become more self-aware, you can observe what is happening within you and realize that it’s not about him. It’s about loving, respecting and caring for you. Lots to learn. BR has a wealth of information…keep going to it. Let Nat’s teachings your amulet…print off the ones that really strike a chord and read them over and over. You can do this. KEEP THE FOCUS ON YOU 🙂
HUGS.
And Lorraine…I have been there where you are. I stuck with NC though. Early on in NC, just being on the street and having him pass me in his car and flash his high-beams at me stirred so much emotional stuff in me. The trick is to DEAL WITH THE EMOTIONAL STUFF THAT IS BEING TRIGGERED. Be with the feelings…see a counsellor…let go…move on…love YOU.
Also, when we were involved with one another….we were always running into each other and finding ways to spend time together. Once I broke it off with him and established NC, I was amazed at how easy it was to avoid him. I could feel myself sometimes trying to be seen or trying to see him…catch a glimpse…drive past his house…etc etc. But gradually, as I addressed all the things that were within me, those urges and pushes and pulls diminished. It’s not about him. Things got easier.
Go NC if you’re not already.
That should have said, “let Nat’s teachings be your amulet”. Let BR be your amulet. An amulet (Latin amuletum) can be any object but its most important characteristic is its alleged power to protect its owner from danger or harm. Everything you need to learn and grow from your unhealthy patterns is here on BR. You have to apply it. And for me, I really did treat her site as my amulet. I needed to here this stuff over and over and over and over. Every time I got triggered, I read her stuff. I’ve got her books (Mr. EUM and the Fallback Girl…and the Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship). You have to let the stuff sink in…and apply it. I’ll shush up now. I hope my ranting has encouraged you and will help 🙂
Dun, I too was attracted to the fantasy of what I thought he was (brilliant mathematician/engineer/inventor) and the potential of what he could be. And I too consciously broke NC from a new state of growth. I too did this knowing he is as I now understand things a certifiable narcissist.
So I realized I had been expending a lot of emotional energy caring about maintaining NC. Every Monday night at our shared organizational meeting that we are both deeply involved with I had to strategically be on the other side of the room, go to the refreshment table after him, talk in another group. NC was a lot of effort. No eye contact, no verbal exchange, but an enormous elephant in the room. Exhausting. Then after New Year’s (and he had not approached me since July)
I got the Happy New Year, Happy Birthday, You look great….and all I said was “thank you”. Then I thought, it’s been over a year, I’d never go back to him (hopefully, realize he’s an oldman child). But felt I could test myself with an outreach. Out of the blue I said “hi”. no emotional exchange or personal exchange (with words). He was so caught off guard by my initiating a hello. Threw him totally off, got embarrassed, turned red! Looked sheepish. I did not engage in any conversation but put my arms around him and gave him a strong, long embrace which he reciprocated.
Afterwards I felt even stronger to not engage with him (NC). A couple weeks have past and I have had no desire to reach out. I have asked myself what on earth happened, as I feel so much lighter, not dreading having to avoid him on Mondays. I reached a conclusion, I think, with that embrace I forgave him. Which really means I forgave myself, freed myself.
Simple Pleasures,
wouldn’t it be hilarious if we were involved with the same man?! ExAC was also an engineer with his own business, in politics. These guys come from all walks of life.
I like what you said here about NC being a lot of effort. And that forgiveness thing is huge. If we can forgive ourselves for our own patterns of behaviour that cause us pain, that is such a great gift to ourselves. Forgiving them is the ultimate freedom from that ever persistent “elephant in the room”. I actually found it easier to forgive a narcissist than I did to forgive myself. They’re not capable of anything more. AND I AM. Something to be truly grateful for!
Wow Simple pleasures,
You have come so far, how empowered you must feel! Congratulations. It does take a lot of work. Like DunrobINE said, he just has to pass by me in his car and stop with a quick hello and it triggers every emotion in me.
I can do NC no problem, its him who manages to run into me and text me. I need to work on boundaries and force myself to really see him for who he really is and most definitely give up this ridiculous fairy tale ending dream.
And Simple, it seems like even if this guy started contacting you now that you made that gesture, you are so beyond his BS, it would so easy for you to smile and just keep it moving. Good for you. I want to be where you ladies are!
PS I do hope Natalie has a great post coming up for the dreaded VD! Those like me will need to be talked off the ledges that day for sure!
Hugs,
Lorraine
Lorraine,
in my situation, he tried to play the “let’s be friends card”…”we’re neighbours, it’s childish to avoid each other” bullshit with me. I was very firm with him and told him what I expected. No emails. No texts. No contact. I told him to take me off a political distribution list so I didn’t have to see his name in my inbox. And I told him that what I was insisting on was very ADULTish. I said that maybe someday we could relate as “neighbours” but that I needed and wanted space to heal. So, I laid down the law. He tested me to see if I was crying wolf and I did not respond. He even showed up at my door and brought me some bulbs from his garden, and I accepted them but did NOT jump into my normal ego-stroking patterns. He invited me over for tea (his old code word for sex…even though we also did have tea together often)…I did not respond. He gave up because he very quickly learned that he was not going to get what he was used to getting and that I meant what I said. Maybe your exAC keeps on doing what he is doing because he keeps getting what he is getting from you. What are you giving?
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/the-fallback-girl-the-girl-who-cried-wolf/
http://youtu.be/uWktoG5DU_4
And this song became my theme song for NO CONTACT. It gave me strength and I played it loud and danced and sang and felt more beautiful and strong with each play. I even changed the lyrics to reflect that I went away and left him so that when I sang it, it made perfect sense. Music moves me and is a great vehicle for getting close to your emotions and evoking all sorts of things in you. I hope you can have fun with this great song 🙂
Here is my version of the original lyrics:
I went away and left you long ago
And now you’re knockin’ on my door
I hear you knockin’
But you can’t come in
I hear you knockin’
Go back where you’ve been
You begged me not to go but I said, “Goodbye”
I’m tired of you tellin’ me all your lies
I hear you knockin’
But you can’t come in
I hear you knockin’
Go back where you’ve been, oh
You better get back to your use to be
‘Cause your kind of love ain’t good for me
I hear you knockin’
But you can’t come in
I hear you knockin’
Go back where you’ve been
I told you way back in 52
That I would never stay with you
I hear you knockin’
But you can’t come in
I hear you knockin’
Go back where you’ve been
I hear you knockin’
But you can’t come in
I hear you knockin’
Go back where you’ve been
And here’s an idea for Valentine’s Day. MAKE A PLAN TO BE YOUR OWN BEST LOVER. Get yourself a card, write something beautiful to yourself and stick it in the mail. Buy yourself some fresh flowers and chocolates and get a movie to snuggle up under a blanket and watch yourself. Spice up masturbation and go out and buy yourself a dildo or some other quality sex toy if you’re missing sex (I honestly just bought myself a $120 dildo that looks and feels like the real deal!). Pleasure yourself! Learn to give yourself the things that you think you need to get from outside of yourself. Learn to love you.
Valentine’s Day can be a “WOE IS ME” experience. Or it can be a “WOW IS ME!” experience. Choose the latter. Choose to celebrate and love yourself. The choice is yours. Create what you want for yourself <3
And here’s another idea…I seem to be overflowing today but it’s just because I’m making my own plans so thought I would share. Who do you have in your life that you really love and can show your love to? GIVE LOVE TO THOSE PEOPLE. I’m sending Valentine’s cards to my Mom and Dad. They each get their own personal one from me. I have one for my each of my young sons (9 and 11) and my yearly tradition is to give them cards, chocolates and fresh flowers. Seeing them glow makes me glow. I decorate the house a bit with some heart stuff too. And usually tuck a little felt heart in their lunch bags to find when they are at school. Nurture relationships in your life that are worth nurturing. Give love to the people who can really receive it…including YOURSELF.
DunrobINE
I have to say, that article, the girl who cried wolf was perfect, so thank you for sharing it with me.
Yesterday I was the lowest I’ve been in three months, but today, because of you and this site, I’m feeling somewhat stronger, I can’t allow myself to get caught up in this anymore… Waiting for him to become the man I need, it’s never going to happen.
I know I need to block him and avoid him in person. Wave and move on if confronted. I really want to try harder. I’m a terrible addict, funny, I don’t have an addictive personality at all. This has never happened to me before. But then I’ve never been rejected before, maybe thats it.
Learning more about myself everyday.
Thank you…
Lorraine
DunrobINE
Song is great, perfect. I will listen to it often. I have read Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback girl three times.
The movie The Holiday always makes me feel better. When Kate Winslet finally gets the gumption to tell the EU AC she was in love with the “I am miraculously done being in love with you” She meant it. I want that gumption too.
Hugs,
Lorraine
Great post Nat! Timely too. I cannot believe, 2 potentials in 2 weeks, both EUM! I recently found a guys email from 3 years ago, a guy I met online and we started a conversation that ended becasue I was busy and replied one month later and he didn’t like that, told me I wasn’t serious about online dating. True, how can I be? I am serious about finding someone though. ANyways, after 3 years, I spontaneously sent him an email to see if he found the love of his life. He responded right away and tols me he’s in Indonesia right now travelling. It was cool, becasue I had been thinking about doing some travelling myself later in the year. Anyways, we started emailing each other everyday for the last week and we seemed to click, he is still single, so I thought, this is good. Then, he tells me that he has reopened his online dating profile. OMG, I am so pissed, actually, I just feel like I am stuck in EUM Groundhog Day! I am so mad, the nice flow we started developing just stopped for me. Basically, (and I might tell him this, now you can see where the critisism comes in) it’s like this, a candy (me) happened to roll in his direction unexpectedly (he said God works in mysterious ways) and he was delighted by that…..then, he thinks to himself, I like candy and there’s more candy out there, I should revisit the candy store (online dating site). It makes me feel like, nevermind, his behaviour definately tells me he is a commitment phobe. I haven’t emailed him back and basically I feel like telling him exactly what I think of him now…and then I think, is he even worth it. This is clear sabotage from his end. I didn’t really care for his photo, I intuited (and this is before he told me he’s online again) there is something not nice about him, even though he claims to be spiritual and evolved. I’m probably right about that. I hate this groundhog day experience!!!! Last week, the hot ex addict and this week Mr. Bridges over Madison County!! ANd they both have the same name!!
What did I learn? Well, I was re-inspired since talking to the guy this week to make some solid travel plans and I felt so much better and calmer once I decided that, so that was his purpose in my life. I also see how I am meeting these same types EUM, yet I am discovering it fairly quickly, and I feel much more detached and not as devastated as before when I find out. I feel disappointed and a little sad and wonder when will I escape this recurring nightmare, but otherwise, I’m just observing…..I wonder who I’ll meet next week?
CC,
I am totally confused!
You do not know this man. You chatted with him three years back for a short while, and now have done the same within recent weeks. You have not met, nor dated, but have unrealistic expectations of him. Just because a man is online, does not make him EU. Remember, this is a stranger.
You got very attached to that other guy at church within a very short period, please pull back and get to know people, as you’re rushing down the commitment aisle, way too quick – I don’t suggest it with church guy, as he has a boatload of red flags attached.
Have some expectations of commitment when you are seriously dating and in a relationship, otherwise your are going to be in a constant state of drama.
Alison,
I agree. I met another man from online last night. We had a couple of drinks in a pub around the corner. I am meeting another for dinner tonight. They are just meetings, I will invest nothing emotionally in either of these men and I don’t expect that they would stop chatting to/meeting other women online, unless and until we have a conversation about that and mutually agree the way forward.
This is not a competition, or a race to grab a man. What is for you will not pass you by.
As for online chatting, people pop up and pop off, it’s a mistake to attribute too much meaning to any of it.
And (I cringe to say) the MM I was involved with 2 years ago hooked me with a lot of online BS. Fantasy relationship, much. I feel scarred for life by that experience and really don’t think I could ever make a meal of such e-crumbs again.
Mymble,
So true, I hate to say that when the guy told me he was re-opening his online dating profile, I felt the heaviness of the competition, even though I am confident, I hate to think of finding love this way. I seriously think there is something wrong with the online dating culture, but then I hear about and know people who have met that way and are in happy relationships. It only takes one, that’s all we need to remember.
Allison,
Thanks again for your wise post, When I didn’t hear back from him, then I remembered your words, they helped!
CC,
Your welcome. That means a lot.
Your right, about people meeting good people online. I know of many good relationships that have come from online dating. We just have to be discerning when we do it. I need to get myself out there, too.
Good luck 🙂
Mymble,
So agree!!!
Good luck with your dating!!!! Have fun!
Allison
Thanks for your advice. I’m not feeling drama as much as disappointment, but you are right, I need to just keep letting each dud go and say next! Tough one sometimes and after too many of them in a row, I expect them all to be like that and might miss a good one. I need to pace myself..
CC,
What I meant by drama, is by choosing people that are questionable. For me, if I have to question someone so much, then it will have to be a no go.
I know you were vacillating about having church guy around as a friend, but I think if you are honest with yourself, you would admit that you were hoping that he would change his mind and enter into something serious. We’ve all been there, so this is not coming from judgement.
CC,
SLOW DOWN. What’s the rush? It sounds like you feel you have to date as many guys as possible within a certain time frame. There should never be a frantic search to find “The One”. That kind of behavior will surely lead to disappointment. Take time. Get to know people. You can gain much wisdom and experience by just communicating in earnest, and evaluating who he is and what he brings to the table. You can learn from a man who clearly isn’t your type because you’ve learned what doesn’t appeal to you. Dashing into quick, meaningless alliances repeatedly looking for your soul mate is not at all wise. Take your time. Try to learn about people and the myriad ways in which they behave. This will help you to build confidence in yourself and make better choices based on solid observations.
I’ve been dating and really trying to put this into practice. Trying to examine carefully as I go what my reactions and feelings are and where they come from. I’ve had three dates with one person. I had two dates, told him I did not want to take it further. We had had a lot of fun together (in the ordinary meaning of the word) but I had some concerns about attitudes to money, attitudes to good and exercise and a lack of sensitivity that I felt might create problems down the line. However I foolishly allowed myself to get sweet talked and we went on another date , which confirmed my misgivings. He sensed how I felt and himself said that was it. But – kept texting and phoning for support in relation to his best friend who had been diagnosed with cancer. In the last conversation he became insulting and spiteful. The representative left the room, and the real man showed up and he wasn’t such a nice guy at all. In the past I’d probably have gone along with it and we’d have had a lot of fun, sex, and enjoyable activities etc. and I do feel some regret about passing up on that, but ultimately I feel sure it would have ended nastily. (Which in fact it did anyway but at a much earlier stage). I still second guess myself, a little, and wonder if my expectations are not too high. Could I not have tolerated a little imperfection? But another issue I have had has been sticking to my decisions (EU woman?)so I’m trying to do it differently this time.
Mymble
I totally understand where you are coming from. Wanting to follow your intuition, but second guessing yourself. Anyways, this situation proved your gut feeling to be right. That was worth the third date in my books! But, it would not be worth a fling when you want a ‘real’ lasting relationship. I get that way too, I was thinking, the ex addict…mmmm maybe, it would be fun etc etc. anyways, life didn’t let it happen and he went cold turkey on me, but I don’t like abrupt endings, even if it was a short friendship, it still stings!
Consider what is being reported today, I heard a psychotherapist
and entertainment reporter who knew Philip Seymour Hoffman who after 23 years sober was found dead, with needle in arm and 50 packets of heroin near him. These people who had interacted with him used such descriptions as he was ” so sensitive, had a strong work ethic,
was brilliant, was so loving…”
Drug addiction is pervasive in the Western. We all have our inner struggles, esteem issues, self doubt, the ups and downs of the modern human adventure. But addicts
seem to have demons so very hard to conquer.
Simple Pleasure
Very good point. I have never dated an ex substance abuse addict, well maybe once, an alcholic for 2 weeks, that was enough! It feels to me like very dangerous territory and I don’t think I’m equipped to deal with it..nor do I want to. Thanks!
Mymble,
I don’t think your situation had to do with tolerating some imperfection. It sounds like you realized early on that it was not really going to be the situation that you had hoped for. While it would have been nice to continue on and have someone around for a bit, it would have been worse in the long run.
Why do we always second guess ourselves? I have been feeling the same way recently after breaking things off with my ex bf. I went over there to break things off because I was tired of being on a roller coaster with him…but I have been thinking, wouldn’t it have been nice to just stay on the roller coaster and still had him around instead of nothing? I know deep down that was not what I wanted, but it is hard sometimes, especially when you are alone…
I have been having a really hard time during the three weeks since we have broken things off and wish I could still talk with him, wondering what he is doing, and if he misses me. I know I shouldn’t care at all, because he was only giving me crumbs, but it is still hard. Especially when we want to be wanted so badly.
Janiqua
It’s not worth it though. It’s all about time, and trying to be mindful about how you spend it. Life is short and gone in a flash. If I had let this guy hang around, knowing he wasn’t really right, I would have been the flip flapper, wanting & not wanting him and that\’s not fair.
Mymble
Imperfections are stuff like forgetting to put firewood on, forgetting something at the store, not knowing how to shovel snow (I kid you not, some folks cannot do this). What you are describing is basic incompatibility of values, some of which, such as financial issues, lack of maintaining health, have serious consequences down the line. Good job using your BR senses, date 3 just confirmed what you sensed.
Noquay,
Yes the money thing is a big red flag for me. I look for financial prudence but also generosity. There were hints and clues that he had neither quality. And I can’t face the thought of another 10 years trying to persuade someone to leave the fry ups and takeaways and have some veggie couscous.
Dunrobine
I too have a suggestion for Vals Day, especially those of us sans loved ones; ignore it. Its, much like Christmas, New Years, a fake holiday (unless you’re Christian, in the case of Xmas) where the aim is to get us all to consume useless stuff. If you love someone, do you really need a prescribed day to show your love? Our psyches and the planet would be better off without it.
That’s true Noquay. I would certainly never limit my expression of love to one day! But I love tradition and ritual, so I see it as an opportunity and not an obligation or prescription…and I keep it simple so that I’m not consuming lots of useless stuff 🙂 But I do think that for those people who are dreading it, having a plan might help. I sometimes even give to my closest and most special women friends. There are many people in my life who I consider “loved ones”. I think there is something to be said for using this day as an opportunity to grow rather than another way to stay stuck. Stinkin’ thinkin’ can lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy. I really wanted to encourage nurturing healthy relationships, including that which we have with ourselves.
There’s also another reason for the advice I give about Valentine’s Day. But technically, maybe it can just be a start for every day. For many of us who get involved with AC’s and EUM’s, we become isolated and forget about a lot of people in our lives because we’re so focused on this man and not being able to live without him yadda yadda yadda. Part of breaking free is to break out of the isolation…think about somebody other than him…..make your world bigger…stretch out your arms and love to healthy people and healthy relationships. Have a ladies night potluck with friends. Treat yourself to dinner and a movie (I call that taking myself out on a date!). Breaking unhealthy patterns takes action. Sometimes it just takes a few small actions to give yourself the momentum you need to continue, grow and get healthy. And to take the focus off him already!
Choose to have a “WOW is me!” everyday 🙂
Good luck…so grateful for this site and the support here.
When you really love someone, you love them all the time. In good times and bad, you love them. In sickness and health you love them. So certainly designating a special day to love them even more is ridiculous. Every day is that special day.
Not to say VD should be ignored. To each his own. I see no reason to go through mental/physical gymnastics over it. A card is nice to receive, but a heartfelt, sincere, “I love you” means so much.
noquay,
i totally agree with the HUGE commercialism aspect…love should be shown EVERY day…not just one day that is highlighted for everyone to show their love.
but still, here in the United States, it is so heavily promoted everywhere and with restaurants and everything, it is hard to just ignore…even though i know i am better off without my EU ex bf…
Thank you for sharing your gift of truth, love and peace. You are helping so many of us reach depths ignored, unknown, and forgotten. If you NEVER post anything else…ever again, you’ve said it all in this post. Thank you, thank you!!!!
I’ve just broken up with my emotionally unavailable bloke. We’ve been going out for 4 years, with a 4 month break 2 years ago after he broke up with me. I was devastated then. He came crawling back and after much deliberation and promises on his part I took him back. Things were good for a while but in the last few months I haven’t felt fulfilled.
When I brought up the subject of our future he pretty much changed the subject. I told him last week that I couldn’t continue like this and he said ok. I haven’t shed one tear and feel quite relieved. I’ve also, this time, blocked him on Facebook.
He didn’t try to fight for me, but I would have been surprised if he did. I wonder why he bothered to stay with me if he didn’t really love me? Maybe because he didn’t want to be the bad guy this time.
Anyway, it’s in the past now and he, and this website, have made me aware that I seem to attract emotionally unavailable men which of course means I have to work on that aspect of myself!
Loyal subscriber forever.. Your articles are genius.
Good luck, Jen! You should be proud of yourself for saying good-bye to someone who didn\’t treat you well. It takes courage and strength, and it\’s the first step in what can be a very fulfilling, inspiring journey.
Rachel Kushner, one of my favorite novelists, says it best in this quote: “I have learned a lot waiting for people who don’t show. It’s about what you do in that situation: I mean, what you do next.”
I\’m so grateful for the Baggage Reclaim community for helping me grow. Every day I feel closer to myself, and although there have definitely been some difficult moments, I’ve also had some really good days too, where I’ve been completely at peace with myself. I know that this painful experience is making me a stronger person every day.
I\’m so grateful for all of you!
Thanks. And yes, I’m really proud of myself and am looking forward to the future without him.
Janiqua
Yep, it’s just like Christmas. Something I’d rather ignore, not being Christian, but it is rammed down my throat. Ditto for VD. There is some sort of local’s ball that weekend here. I am a very good dancer, but sadly, there’s no single older dudes here that I should allow to touch me (desperate guys with boundary issues), let alone dance with. Feeling forced to sit on the sidelines would really suck. Not a spectator sort of person. Gonna do what I did for Xmas, get out in the backcountry, burn serious calories, further improve myself, and look forward to the day when I am in a place where the men are healthy :).
noquay
getting out into the backcountry sounds awesome!! if i lived close i would join you!! i live in the city currently and miss being outside and totally immersed in the outdoors with my dog!
i am a teacher, and usually enjoy celebrating the day with my students and having a little party, but we are out of school that day for some reason…
What if you’ve reached a place where you’re always second-guessing your attractions?
I seem to be living under a curse in which nearly every man who goes out of his way to strike up a conversation, flirt with me, seek my attention in some way appears at first to be available but upon closer scrutiny is NOT. I have learned that that is probably question No. 1 that needs to be asked above ALL else. Saves a lot of time, that’s for sure.
The other side of that is, I sometimes find myself attracted to a guy because he’s calm, friendly, relating to me as a person as opposed to a potential conquest, etc. — only to find out that he’s not available. This is far less problematic as there is no deliberate intent to mislead, but it’s almost as crazymaking. With that I just say to myself, OK, he likes me but he’s not interested. New friend, keep stepping.
I once had someone lie and say he didn’t have a girlfriend, only to find out the very next day that he did. This is why I go very, very slowly with new people — if he can’t take that and pushes too hard for what he wants regardless of what I have said I need — flush.
I’ve gotten good at dodging these bullets, but I am SO tired of this gunfight over and over. Any insights? I have just stopped dealing with any of them for now.
No Mo Drama,
“I’ve gotten good at dodging these bullets, but I am SO tired of this gunfight over and over.”
Me too. (sighs) It’s frustrating.
Nomo
On the plus side at least someone is showing an interest! Just keep moving along. Friend of mind had three bad relationships one after the other. She cried for a year over one of them. Now she’s engaged, and they are happy and well suited. She didn’t do anything particularly amazing or become the perfect person but, very crucially, she didn’t give up. And it was she who ended the previous relationships. I think that’s the biggest factor, the belief there is something better for you. Otherwise you might as well stay single or in a subpar relationship. Not sure how to become more optimistic though!
But it’s usually fake interest, or otherwise unusable. I realized a long time ago that NO luck is actually better than bad luck. If nothing is happening, you can just get on with life and do what you do. Bad luck often looks pretty good at first, and so often turns out to be some kind of cruel joke.
Nomo and Tinkerbell,
I couldn’t agree more Nomo! It is very demoralizing to keep meeting one EUM after another, that has been my problem. Are you meeting these men online? That has been a real challenge for me, but then, so had meeting them normally. Maybe, online is better in a way, because when you meet a guy normally and he hasn’t met anyone he liked in a long time, he might future fake to get laid. Whereas the online guys might just drop you and move on. I don’t know, I just know that I’m pulling back again and to be honest, yes, I don’t want to give up…
Tinkerbell- …but how do you not look at someone as a potential bf? I will be assessing from the the get go. Maybe, that’s where I need to just take it real slow, but when I really like someone, I don;t know how to do that. I don’t mean I jump into bed with them, I mean, how do you take it slow emotionally? Haven’t figured that one out yet.
I’ve taken an indefinite leave of absence from on-line. Never a second date with anyone — even the ones who talked all this hot air (unprompted)about what we would do “next time.”
Sadly, if I do seem to click chemistry-wise with anyone, he immediately starts pushing to come over, and I have learned not to waste time negotiating with that. At best, we’d end up going further and faster physically than I would have liked, and at worst there is the potential for assault in a situation where there are no witnesses.
Catladyship, here I come.
As for taking it slow emotionally, you have to get to a place of neutrality where you can seriously take it or leave it, where you see what is rather than what you hope or want to see.
Thanks Nomo!
Hi CC, I relate to your question, how to take it slow emotionally speaking from the get go. This is big for me as I got caught out and heart broken via emotional investment, which kind of made a mockery of my caution, discipline and up-frontness with myself as far as getting overly physically involved in the discovery. All this happened a good 15 months ago now and I’m still healing my heart!!
What you say there about “…when you really like someone…”. Well, I’ve realised that the thing is to like someone in proportion to how they are treating us and I mean in action not their words (so hard I know). It boils down to how much we are able to feel own worth and value and respect ourselves, to know when someone is being less than and pushing boundaries, to get real with ourselves and get into the habit of listening to our guts on a daily basis. If all this is going on then it’s hard to see how we can pre-maturely “really like someone” unless they have …earned/are earning our respect and affection and we are being real with ourselves about this. Not easy, yeah I know. But I think that maybe that’s what NoMo Drama means down there by reaching a place of neutrality where we can take it or leave it. We’ve got to take better care of ourselves so that no-one of these men we may be dating gets our love, respect and affection unless they’ve earned it.
Clearly, I gave my heart to the Mr Weak of 15 plus some months ago before he had earned it even though I never slept with him. We did get physical in affectionate ways though – kissing, holding hands, the whole romantic hooha, too early on – (after about 3 weeks)- and I know for certain that without that reciprocated and very pleasant physical contact on our dates, I would have had an easier time controlling my emotional investment which he had not yet earned.
I am moving along better these days as with time I’ve come to realise that he respected me enough to leave me the fuck alone when he realised he wasn’t up for where we were headed and more than that I did give credence to my healthy side in the end by getting out even though my unhealthy self sabotaging side was regularly rattling the chains.
And yeah it was him not me and I can get by with that despite this absurdly stubborn narcissistic part of me that delights in suggesting that I just wasn’t ‘worth it’, hah…as if as Nat says he wasn’t even there as an individual with his own issues and choices to make and it was all ‘about me’ that he withdrew then took to another state (“it was all my faulty’ is simply another way of saying/feeling this). Haha…since when did me and my thoughts, feelings and actions become so goddamn powerful in influencing others! Since when was I so effing omnipotent in the decisions of others..since never…that’s why I know, despite all the tangible unknowns, that it was as much his decision based on him as an individual. An individual who I was really only just beginning to know.
CC,
I know exactly what you are talking about. It is VERY HARD not to see potential when you think he’s a good guy. What I’ve had to learn after YEARS is to stop the dreaming and fantasizing. It took me forever to even realize I was doing this, but with the help of a very good therapist and Natalie’s writings I recognize it more quickly. You have to be exceedingly observant. Yes. A detective, sad to say. Listen carefully, to everything he says, everything he does, and especially how he interacts with others. Command on the utmost respect. Don’t make assumptions, i.e. he likes kids so he must be a nice guy. I can’t stress observation enough. Don’t make excuses when something hits you the wrong way, because you’re ignoring a red flag and, trust me, the issue will come up again and you still haven’t dealt with it. Just take it slow CC. Be protective of yourself. I’m sure I’m much older than you, but you can learn early. Look at Natalie, Get yourself some good self help books. “Boundaries”, by Drs. Cloud and Townsend, “Women Who Love Too Much” by Robin Norwood, and “In Sheep’s Clothing – Understanding and Dealing With Manipulative People”, are all good for starters. Good luck. Tink.
Lizzp
Yeah, it’s tpugh, thanks for sharing your experience. We gotta be vigilent with our gut feelings and hopefully life will help along. You know, I know I won’t end up with a bad guy, I’m just afraid I won’t end up with any guy! That’s where a huge dose of trust is required. That’s my biggest challenge. Good luck!
CC, yeah I’m with you, on my bad days I let that fear of being alone (absence of intimate relationship with a man) for the rest of my life, get to me where it hurts me. However, I notice that this fear is a falsity (?)… I recognise its falseness?, is being generated out of nothing but my own sense of inadequacy ( the ‘I’m not worth it’), whenever I make the effort to simply be myself, stay grounded, *act* – have agency – in my life and in the world. I feel happy, full of hope for my goals and future, and surrounded with loving friends when I let myself be present in the here and now.
and good luck to you too!xxo
Okay I can’t help but laugh at the acronyms that make for a double take: “ignore vd.”, “I am just dreading vd.” Lol. As you should ladies;)