person isolated within a cage

I’ve been speaking with a number of readers recently who have found that in spite of knowing that the person whom they are involved with was no good for them or a relationship, struggle to let it go. A lot of this has to do with something I wrote about recently, normalising bad behaviour.

“You have adapted to the whims and idiosyncrasies each time you have been with these men, so what was abnormal has become totally normal.

This is how you end up becoming distanced from yourself and forgetting who you are, what you need, what you want etc.”

But there’s another offshoot of all this that causes you to feel stuck and helpless, and it’s isolation.

Because you have strayed so far from everything that you thought you believed about yourself and professed to want and need, and because you have internalised a lot of what has been taking place or being said, you have ended up becoming isolated.

When you have no boundaries and keep trying to accommodate the other person in the hope that you will get the relationship you want and the validation that you seek, you end up losing yourself en route.

Often we don’t spend as much time with our families and friends because we fear what they will think of our continued involvement with the person. In some cases though, the person who we are involved with has eroded so far into our sense of self, saying things that have taken root, that we also convince ourselves that if we keep friends and family in our life that he (or she) hasn’t approved of, it will create further problems for us. All it takes is repeated comments or arguments about you talking to/spending time with certain people and you start to distance yourself because you think it will make them happy.

We misguidedly believe that it’s because they love us so much and so passionately that they really want to spend as much time as possible with us and not have us be ‘lost’ to someone else. Or…we believe that they will be able to love us if we do what they want because we believe that we are currently flawed.

We then attempt to please them throwing all of our attention and ‘love’ in their direction only to find that we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t, and often left alone, anyway.

Obviously when we make this one man our focal point, everything else suffers so this only amplifies our dislike of ourselves and also our dependence on them because we start to believe that everything will slot into place and be ‘right’ when you get the relationship you want with them.

So we keep analysing and looking for reasons to blame ourselves for their behaviour or the fact that the relationship is not how we want it to be, and whatever we can seize upon, we’ll use that as another reason to stay invested and morph and adapt further to accommodate the other person.

There are two types of isolation going on here:

The things you assume and seize upon as reasons to propel your fears and distance yourself from ‘you’ so that you can hopefully get the relationship and validation you seek, and,

The all pervasive comments and behaviour by the other party that often amount to bullying and control that ended up stripping away everything you know about yourself – these people can end up stripping away your friends, family, work, your sense of self so that even when you recognise how dangerous and wrong they are, you haven’t got anything familiar left to hold onto, so you keep holding onto them.

I spoke with someone recently whose guy can’t even cope with her being affectionate with her child. Someone else had a girlfriend who felt ‘hurt’ when he spent time with his friends. Many readers have been back and forth with their guy so many times that they feel that they can’t be around their family and friends so much because they don’t think they can be honest about their continued involvement with their assclown or Mr Unavailable.

All of this compounds the feeling of isolation…and dependency.

Because you have tried to redefine yourself based on what you think they want and need you to be in order for you to be ‘right’ for them or because they keep telling you about how if only you weren’t being or doing X,Y, and Z, you could be the perfect person for them, this ‘new’ you needs this other person because you and they have stripped away everything that is familiar to you.

The unfortunate thing about this is that these men, like Mr Unavailable’s and assclowns, is that they often end up leaving you alone so you basically end up up sh*t’s creek without a paddle because you no longer have anything familiar left to hold onto.

You then think that the only way you can find your way back, is to use them as a lifejacket to hold onto, to effectively bring you back to shore. They on one hand represent why you’re so miserable but because everything has been sidelined and abandoned to be with them, they also now appear to be the source of your happiness.

Trouble is, clinging onto someone like this for support is about as much use as a chocolate teapot…

Now think back over all of the relationships that you have been involved in and the morphing, adapting, changing, and shifting that you have been doing in the quest to be loved. Now imagine you have been doing this with each person, shifting for each of their idiosyncrasies and perceived requirements for nabbing a relationship with them – is it any surprise that in redefining yourself for each person and internalising all of the crap en route that you no longer know who you are?

Remember in Pretty Woman when he asks Julia Roberts character what her name is and she says ‘Whatever you want it to be’?

Well for each and every person that loses themselves in other people, if you imagine that someone is asking you who you are each time, you’re saying ‘Whatever you want me to be…if it means you love me and validate me’

It’s no wonder you can’t let go of the relationship and you end up feeling isolated because if you opt out of the madness, they’ll take your latest version of you with them.

Back in part 2 where I explain about how fear will keep you isolated and moving past it. Part 3 is now available.

Get ahead on understanding waste of space men and relationships with my ebook, Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. Find out more and download. If you need personal advice or analysis of your relationship/situation, check out my consultation service.

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136 Responses to Becoming isolated in relationships – Part One

  1. Angelina says:

    Meant: Boy, I do not envy you.

    You had written that you hope to be at peace again.

    If you do decide that you are finished, and for good, but you still, in your heart and your head have “hope”, it will be a painful ride.

    You are leaving someone you loved. Maybe he loved you, maybe he didn’t. His ambivalence puts you and him on that pendulum.

    The withdrawl will hurt. It will hurt like nothing has ever hurt before.

    I went NC, not because I was over him, but because I no longer wanted the pain. Just know that there is a difference.

    As Brad K. says, “Luck.”

  2. Butterfly says:

    @Angelina

    I think personally that the hardest thing about it all is that no one knows what it is like unless they have been through it, and if they have been through it then they will sympathise but maybe do what I am doing i.e. trying to emphasise to get off the ride whilst knowing how hard and painful it was: wanting to minimise the pain for others. Yet everyone has their own way out of this mess and the time is different for each of us.

    Again, meant, Angelina has said it all perfectly.

  3. Serena says:

    @Meant — “then he said – ‘I don’t want to say end things, just to chill and reflect for a while. Then, if through some twist of fate our circumstances change, we can reconsider.’”

    Twist of fate?????!!!!!! Get real A-Clown!! This AC is pinning everything between you and he on fate which is completely outside of his control and responsibility and it sounds oh so romantic. It’s NOT!! What he does with regard to his relationship with you and his relationship with his wife is completely within his control, not some fated destiny of a romance novel and he knows it!! This is absolute BS that he can’t possibly believe unless his mental capacity parallels that of a salamander. Now that you’ve found the strength to set some boundaries, his true colors are really starting to show now aren’t they. I know its painful. The pain is in coming out of our anesthesia and seeing them for who they truly are instead of remaining in the fantasy world of what we throught and wanted them to be. Hang in there Meant, it will get easier. I promise it will.

  4. Butterfly says:

    ^5s Serena x

  5. Angelina says:

    Serena:

    What does ^5s Serena x mean? I don’t quite yet understand cyberspeak.

    Anyway . . .

    I totally understand that each person has to come at this in their own way. I had stated in an earlier post on this topic that I kind of “fell” onto the concept of NC. Meaning that my intuition guided me there, and it was after finding this site and another site -devoted to healing and moving on – that I really understood the concept of NC. And the Steven Carter/Julia Sokol book: He’s Scared;She’s Scared.

    I literally started to begin to think that I was crazy. How could someone, who I thought made me feel so good, have me in tears all of the time? It was the ambiguity, but I didn’t know that. All I knew is that I was sick of the “push-pull” dynamic that existed from the very beginning. When he first started flirting with me, it went no where. But yet, he upped and upped the flirtation. Anything to put him on my radar. But when I responded, he did a 180 and was distant – avoided eye contact, no smiling, no, “Hellos.” So, I then stopped interacting, and he would be nice again.

    Even to this day, I somewhat sympathize with him (I know. I know. Crazy!), because if he has to live with that every single day and in every single encounter (push-pull; “I don’t know”; equivocation) it has got to be maddening. It just has to.

    How can one stand it? That’s when I started to really “hear” what he was saying about other areas of his life. Everything about him screamed equivocation. Everything. And, when I was going through a really difficult time, he couldn’t/wouldn’t put out two minutes worth of effort to help me. It’s sort of like he knew that I was bleeding on the street, but he was able to walk, no run home, because he might have to stand up to her for being late.

    As for me, what was I thinking? He was married. I mean, is there any more blatant of a red flag? In the end, I realized that if she put up with that crap for all of these years, then she had patience I didn’t, or she had control of him in a way that I would never be able to compete with. And, I never ever wanted anyone who didn’t want me.

    So how did I get here? How did I go there? I think, it doesn’t matter anymore. What matters is getting out and staying out.

    He was married. For God’s sake, how in the world did I even venture there? Talk about isolation. There are only three people who know of this, and two of the three had it figured out – they had been down this slippery slope – themselves.

    I have a lot of things that I need to work out, in order to get myself healthy, and get over beating myself up. I am tired of carrying the responsibility of the whole thing. He was right there!

    That’s the thing. He won’t carry his share, and so I have to. All of the phone calls and face to face discussions just had him saying, “I don’t know. I don’t know.” Something as simple as, “I’m sorry that I hurt you,” would have provided me some modicum of relief.

    But, I will never get the closure that I want. Never. It isn’t going to happen. As Aega said, “I wasn’t that special. It was an affair. It is over.”

    I was never going to be happy living that way. He would have kept me hanging on for years. Two half lives don’t make a full life.

    So, what I’m trying to say to Meant is that she might be able to accept being the other woman. There are many out there who have.
    There are many wives who know of the situation and accept it. There are many another woman who accept it. In fact, I know of several of those relationships. I do not judge. It just isn’t for me.

  6. Meant to be Happy says:

    Thank you all

    @Debbie – “the other thing i noticed about these men is that no matter how much you threaten to leave,no matter how many angry emails,text messages you send etc.. they always seem to know that it’s only hot air being blown around and with enough time for you to cool down they know it won’t be all that diffulcult to win you over once again.” – yes, I think I have unwittingly taught my ex this very thing. Darn! And he’s playing it cool by saying “I only ask for your (lifelong) friendship – no demands, no promises” Yeh, like that’s gonna make me melt – I’m looking for a relationship, and he wants a whole lot of nothing!!! Kinda sounds like indifference, doesn’t it?

    @jupiter – got it. I will not send the apology I have written. He has said some mildly mean things to me, well, maybe more sarcastic, like “oh, is this where I’m supposed to beg you not to leave?” and “you are prodding me to get me to express my feelings”. But sure, overall, he has treated me horribly where it counts – in his non-commitment to me. He has only been “sweet” and “caring” regarding relatively minor things.

    @aphrogirl – enjoy your canoe trip!! And thanks for all your wonderful input here!

    @Aega – by the time I read your post, I had already composed a long email, outlining how I thought we got into our situation, how we both felt, and some of the problems we have had (including not being able to commit to being with each other or without each other). It was full of thanks and apologies, and suggestions that in the future we only talk about “neutral” topics like work or the hobbies we share. You said “Don’t let him know that you are sitting here replaying your last conversation with him, looking for nuances, and hoping for an answer that matters.” – that makes sense! I haven’t yet sent that email I composed, although it really helped to clarify things for me, and it’s still in my draft folder. BTW, when you sent that last email to your MM, what would you have done if he’d said he was packing his bags and coming to be with you? Were you going to leave your husband for him? If so, I think I underestimated the way you feel about him. You must have *very* strong feeling for him to be willing to end your marriage for him. Wow.

    @Angelina – “If you can find yourself happy to be on the fringes of his life, then stay. If you can’t, then go. You do not owe him an explanation, nor do you have to feel guilty. He is living his life. Are you?” No, I am not happy to be on the fringes. I am not living my life to the fullest, and I’m beginning to resent that. I know I can withstand the hurt of NC for 5 weeks, so surely I can survive longer than that. I just need to get back to that space again where I know it’s what I need, where I know it’s the only thing that will take away the AC hurt. I am not over him, but I no longer want the pain.

    “Everything about him screamed equivocation.” – oh, can I relate here, too. He once wrote “My life lacks many things (mostly you) but there is too much going on right now for major renovations. Perhaps one day I will act to make my life better.” Can you believe that?

    “He won’t carry his share, and so I have to. All of the phone calls and face to face discussions just had him saying, “I don’t know. I don’t know.” Something as simple as, “I’m sorry that I hurt you,” would have provided me some modicum of relief.” – YES, YES, YES!! And no, this relationship based on infidelity is NOT for me – I just have to extract myself from it (again, after breaking NC).

    @Wised_up – “I think the best way to think about this is to picture a hotel room with a door that connects to the next room.” Oh my goodness, what a relevant analogy for me!!! The first time my ex and I got together, we were at one of our conferences (June 2008) and happened to have doors just as you described. We had been flirting for a year, had exchanged many suggestive emails, and couldn’t believe that “fate” had provided us with adjoining rooms. We both opened our doors, and thus our affair began. When I saw him this last week, he said “my door is always open for you” (although our actual rooms were on different floors this time – but of course he was talking about his “relationship” door). You suggested “we need to lock that door, buy and use a deadbolt and even possibly shove some furniture up against it for good measure…” – that sounds like good advice, although I doubt my ex would try *too* hard to get in if he saw the door closed. He’s kinda sneaky that way – he doesn’t come on like a ton of bricks; he suggests, plants seeds, positions himself close to where I am – all quite subtle really. Still, the deadbolt wouldn’t hurt, I’m sure. I’m glad you can relate to all this hesitation on my part to let him go, even though I know he is bad for me.

    @Butterfly – thanks so much for your email. I will respond soon, after I get this sorted. “his wife very likely buys that cologne that smells so good on him and is one of the tenuous links that bind you” – you know, I have had this thought too since when I asked him the name of it he didn’t know – of course she bought it (she or some other woman, which he would adamantly deny). I am keeping my first email in the draft folder, and will begin a new, “final” email, along the lines you suggested, to actually send to him.

    @Serena – yes, I recoiled at the “twist of fate” line too – that’s why I asked for an explanation – but YOU have just explained it perfectly so I don’t need him to! Thank you!

    I am off to compose that new and improved (thanks to all of you) email to my ex…

    Love and gratitude for all the wonderful women here

    Meant xo

  7. Angelina says:

    Meant: Why send an email at all?

  8. Meant to be Happy says:

    @Angelina – it will help me to reorient myself to a “just work” relationship with him, and take away the feeling of “needing” that explanation of his last MSN message before he logged off suddenly. It will prevent me from checking my email every 10 minutes to see if he wrote, as I will ask him specifically *not* to email (whereas right now, I have asked him to email).

    I have composed the new email and saved it in my drafts. I will send it tomorrow, as it’s 1:30 am here, and I don’t want him to know I’ve been thinking about him till the wee hours of the morning, especially since I have to work tomorrow.

    I can see why you would suggest not sending anything, but feel this is the way it will work best for me.

    Thanks again for all your insight, sharing and help. You really have given me so much strength to get through this. xo

  9. Meant to be Happy says:

    oh, and the new email is 3 lines, instead of about 50 :)

  10. Butterfly says:

    MUCH better :) I am glad I sent a final mail. It was very short too and the main point “what a shame you couldn’t have been honest with me” was as near to closure as I’m gonna get. I know he mailed me twice after that and I don’t really care to know what it said, would just have been hurtful anyway so …

  11. Butterfly says:

    @wisedup hi honey meant to say hello before, good to see you :) missed ya!

  12. aphrogirl says:

    meant. sending an email is fine if it seems right,nad esp in your circumstance since you will see him again, but I found it’s not exactly like closure, it’s only the first step to getting out of the unsatisfying relationship,

    the email is, in essence, clearly states to him..that you sincerely this time realize you have had enough, leave me alone, plan to leave me alone, it is different now, something has changed, we will not be in touch or together as before, no personal contact is desired

    remeber you really are doing him a favor too, at the least you stop approving of and enabling his EU ways

    and then you will have really begun NC, it’s conditioning to think that maybe this putting of the foot down will somehow make him transform, it’s conditioned fairytale stuffs, i am not saying it never happens, or as my therapist said, with a laugh, well miracles do happen sometimes i suppose

    but really miracles are rare and wonderful and special things, and to expect them for things like this, making a man, seem maybe not quite appropriate or something. besides men have to do their own work and not expect divine intervention to be EU

    ol i am packed and having checked in here am now off to reflect on these and many other things,

    be good to yourselves and everyone else

  13. Alice says:

    @ Serena – I am replying to your post on the 21st, I am a bit behind with reading all the posts !!
    I could not agree more with you !! You are exactly right. I have been married to a Narcissist and what your are describing in your post is exactly what he did. In order to controll me and everything going on around me, he was inserting himself in every aspect of my life too. At the same time he tried to isolate me from my friends and family so I would lose my social network and completely rely on him.

    He did NOT succeed, because I left. I would never cut off my family and friends (people I have known for over 25 years) for anyone. But as Serena says, those narcisstic men make the choices for you !!!

    I believe that there are 4 different forms of men – EUM’s, Assclowns, Dominators (some of them narcisstic) and NORMAL guys !!!

  14. Alice says:

    @ Leonine – just read your post from the 22nd and the same to you – you are totally right, exactly the same with my Ex-Narc. Couldn’t agree more !!

    I also had relationships with EUM and Assclown and compared with my marriage to the Narcissist, there were a piece of cake.

    When you are with a Narcissist you are fighting for your life every day. You can never let your guard down and you never know what’s coming next. It is about survival ! Example – we were driving in the country side, he is asking “ever been here before ?” Me having a panick attack. If I say “yes” he would have a fit, because he suspects me being here with an ex-byfriend – if I say “No” he would have a fit, because he would accuse me of lying. I might not survive this drive….. luckily I did.

    You could compare it with witchhunt in the middle ages. They put the witch in water, if she drowned she was innocent, if she swam she was guilty and they burnt her to death.

  15. debbie says:

    These men will always find a way to get to us. This is why it is so very important to do what you can to prevent this and remain with NC for your own well being. Just like the saying “a leporad never changes it’s spots” these men will never change either.

    Will the EUM I was involved with try to get in touch one day? I am quite certain he will. They always come back to where they know they can get away with their BS.

    I know for me I have had enough and the more time and distance I put between me and this fool man the better off I’ll be in the long run.

  16. Anusha says:

    Aega- I agree with you,I guess it was a ego boost for him.But what I dont get is why bother to text me about something I not even care much and after two months not speaking to each other? It doesnt make much sense right? Dont you think it seems like if was checking to see if I was still invested? He was always doing those crazy stuff.Right after we broke up I said to him that I had a few things to ask about the break up and if we could do it on emails,he agreeded to it but didnt answer me until 3 weeks later.In the meantime I texted him and sent another email asking why he havent replied or when he would reply that he just ignored and after 3 weeks when I was even starting to think that he wouldnt answer anymore he did.I didnt send anything back(I was pissed off with him making me wait 3 weeks for a answer and had decided to just send something back after 3 weeks too) and 10 days later he starts texting me everyday.See how crazy all that is? He seems to not want contact and then later on he seems to want it,is very confusing.I guess it is the ambivalent personality of the EUMs.

  17. Leonine says:

    I think, for me, the main difference was that EU worked on my emotions; Narc worked on the very fibre of my Being – my soul? Mind? Anything to re-shape me to what he needed to get his feed – Narcissistic Supply. Good or Bad, he fed. What he couldn’t take was Indifference: NC killed him stone dead (except for his pathetic attempts to troll me online or send batches of malicious phone calls, which still continue to this day).

    By comparison, EU was a doddle for me to jettison because, I believe, I’d lived through much, much, much worse and had no intention of doing it again!

    And this is where NML’s writings have been a God send to me: the more I’ve read her work, the more I’ve come to believe that these men came around me because they could smell some kind of weakness in me.

    That’s not to say I’m to “blame” or at “fault”. I take no responsibility for their viles actions and attitudes. But I did have some very odd romantic, spiritual and relationship ideas floating around in my “pretty little head”!.

    No more. NML has led to me realise that, in my case, MY ATTITUDE IS ALL. EVERYTHING. WHO I DRAW AND HOW LONG THEY STAY WITH ME (OR FEEDING OFF ME) IS MY SAY-SO.

    And, wow, it’s actually a relief to know that because, as I’ve said elsewhere, I stand no hope in hell of ever changing anything about anyone on earth; but I can change much about myself. Just by knowing about things seems to lend my attitudes a different kind of strength. I seem to have started emanating a refusal to deal with Ninnies – and Ninnies are keeping away.

    Since leaving EU to himself, he hasn’t contacted me once for any reason whatsoever. Do I find this an insult? Do I feel further rejected and worthless? Do I heck! I “feel” he bloody well knows he’d better keep his distance or lots of brown stuff will be hitting lots of fans.

    I’ve had enough of them all. I really have. And that absolute decision to not have them near me again seems to keep them off in itself.

    It’s some kind of weakness they’re looking for – the chink they can slip through to get what they’re after – whether N Supply in the case of a Narc; or free sex and ego-stroking in the case of an EU/AC.

    Take NML’s information on board – make your DECISIONS to END everything with them, and watch the Ninnies evaporate.

    It can’t be done if they are coming back in any way into your life (in person, email, AIM, phone). That’s just letting them blow life back into the withering balloon of the illusion.

    Or decide you do want to live that way, and get on and enjoy it.

    Take the DECISION in your own hands either way, I’d say.

    love, Leonine

  18. Butterfly says:

    @Alice “You could compare it with witchhunt in the middle ages. They put the witch in water, if she drowned she was innocent, if she swam she was guilty and they burnt her to death.”

    @Leonine “MY ATTITUDE IS ALL. EVERYTHING. WHO I DRAW AND HOW LONG THEY STAY WITH ME (OR FEEDING OFF ME) IS MY SAY-SO.”

    Between you, ladies, you’ve summed up me 10 years ago and me now I think. I still to this day wonder what would have happened if I had not gone off being all experimental with BDSM (so much for a kinky sex life as it turned out I didn’t even get that!!). Still, what is done is done and I also no longer intend to leave that chink in my armour. I do still intend to be helpful, caring and nurturing and my job channels away that need nicely from something which is a weakness into something which actually helps other people and lets me gather my self esteem.

  19. Leonine says:

    I so agree about staying caring and helpful, Butterfly – but I’m no longer prepared to throw those qualities away on wasters. The world is full of people who deserve care and helpfulness, and who aim to pull forward because of it. They are, and always will be, welcome to whatever I can do.

    But I’m remeinded of a “rule” I read years ago when reading up about Narcs: The Rule Of Three – first red flag might be a mistake; second red flag and you need to start paying attention; third red flag and OUT they go, no matter who or what you think they are to you.

    At last, I intend to apply that to my life – and most especially to those men who are supposed to “love” me.

    love to you (and no red flags with it, lol), Leonine

  20. Anusha says:

    “I so agree about staying caring and helpful, Butterfly – but I’m no longer prepared to throw those qualities away on wasters.”

    I agree,some people(like the EUM for example) likes to take advantage on us being caring and helpful so we have to pay atention to whom we give it.I liked your sugestion of the Rule of Three.

  21. Meant to be Happy says:

    Hello everyone,

    I have just sent the “final email” to my ex. I have decided I *have* had enough, and I no longer want him “feeding off me” as Leonine described. I will now turn my caring and energies towards those in my life who really deserve it, similar to what Butterfly said.

    @aphrogirl – “it’s not exactly like closure, it’s only the first step to getting out of the unsatisfying relationship,” – then that is how I will consider it – maybe partial closure, but definitely a step in the right direction. Enjoy your leisure time.

    @Leonine – “I did have some very odd romantic, spiritual and relationship ideas floating around in my “pretty little head” – me too, but this site has helped me to see the light, and I would be foolish to continue with that illusion after knowing what we all know now, and after reading everyone’s stories.

    OK, email sent, MSN blocked – deep breath, day 1 NC has begun.

    Thanks again everyone…

  22. Butterfly says:

    Wish I could remember red flag three … I do remember red flag one tho and I remember the “chill in the blood”. And I knew, idiot, I knew even then that my guts were telling me the truth. My sensitive guys said WHAT about this girl he used to see? Huh? How in the name of hell did that marry up with what I was seeing, hearing and feeling?

    Did I challenge him on it? Actually I did. I told him straight that what he had just said made me pause – bearing in mind that this was during the phase when he was running superhot (i.e. he was “in love with” me aka he was obsessed with the perfect lover he was casting me as in his mind). I sadly can’t remember now what he said or did, the mind having such a great ability to blot out pain.

    I knew though. These days I have to agree with you Leonine, and I had an interesting conversation the other night with someone who had been trying to chase me with “soon” as the watchword. You can imagine that my reaction to “soon” is “that’s what you think sunshine”. When I talked to him on MSN he was still trying to chase and it was so perfect and practiced that it had the exact opposite effect. He said that my replies had not been encouraging (not surprised, they were boundary city) and still fenced around the “soon” and the on-off nature of chasing. He simply could NOT answer anything straight, said “can we start over? I am aware that I have missed a great opportunity with you” and “I don’t see why we can’t meet up for some fun whenever you are in the UK”.

    I told him why not – why the hell would I want to waste my time.

    This ended with him saying that he wanted to start again and I said “OK ball is in your court then” because I knew full well what would happen. It did. It was all “well the conversation is over for now, but … soon …”

    I said to him as I have to any other guy who tells me when I am allowed to speak or not, i.e. “The conversation is completely over”.

    You said it though. There are people who do need a shoulder now and then, or practical advice/help, or a well timed kick up the arse, who do something as a result and yes these are the ones worth spending time with :)

  23. Butterfly says:

    @Meant good for you babes, this is where it really starts and actually once you make a commitment to yourself and start to keep it then life feels better. You might well miss him, but you’re missing something very romantic inside your own head. Remember he has fly-crotch really :)

    Hugs

  24. Anusha says:

    I want to ask something,I still cant fully understand how Im EU.I have been reading He is scared,she is scared review and there seems to explain it but I cant get the book.I live outside USA and Europe and we dont have it on my country.I know I could order for the net but just take too long to arrive here(54 workdays).So I have to figure it out other ways,like here for example.Anybody could explain it to me please?

  25. PiscesCapricorn says:

    I have been dating a 45 yr. man. I am 49 yrs. He was married for 10 yrs. with 3 children. He married young and had his first child at 21 yrs. He divorced his wife. He then met another woman and had another daughter and that lasted about 6 yrs. They separated for 2 yrs. and remarried to try and work it out for their daughter. A few years later, they had 2 sons. After 10 yrs of the marriage, they divorced. He wanted custody of the children since the mother is unstable and he didn’t want to uproot them from a good living. They both tried to compromise a plan. It worked in the beginning where she has access to his home and was welcomed to see the kids at any time. This didn’t last too long. She eventually took him to court and had a long dragged out divorced where it drained him finacially. The outcome was he did get custody of his 3 children (8, 11 and 20) and he also lives with his mom.

    He dated two other women after his divorce. According to him, each lasted about 6 months. One relationship the family did not get along with her so it made it difficult for him to continue the relationship. He ended it without calling and no contact. The second he claims was very dull. Didn’t like to go out or drink and did not have a sense of humor. She was also a cancer. He ended the relationship with no contact.

    Five months later, I responded to his personal ad. He wasn’t replying back. Therefore I sent a message saying I guess he wasn’t interested or perhaps met someone. If I am wrong, my number is _ _ _ _ _ _, please feel free to contact me. A few hours later, he called me. He mentioned that he did reply but I was not getting his messages. Anyway , he asked me out that Friday. He called me on a Wednesday. We went out and it was great. There was definitely chemistry. On Sunday, he texted me asking me to go out with him, which I did. One thing lead to another and here we are 18 months later. It has been an emotional roller coaster. He did mention to me that he had a lot on his plate and was not ready for a full blown relationship.

    We continue to go out every other weekend when he didn’t have his kids. I did eventually meet the kids and his mother and gradually he was inviting me over his house. We have great times together. But he does not express his feelings or reassures me. He did say he does care a lot for me and thinks about me when we are not together. He mentioned his daugher and his mother like me a lot. His boys are adorable and they love me.

    Anyway, I have been feeling neglected lately. His contact with me is minimal. Only one text in the morning. No calls througout the day. I know he is shy and that is why I initiate the contact. Well, I am feeling ver neglected and I sent him several long emails expressing my feelings. All I get from him are short emails telling me, that if we are not on the same page, it’s not going to work. He says I am a great and beautiful woman and he loves being with me.

    Anyway, I sent him a text inviting over to my home for abut an hour, which he use to do in the beginning. I did not get a reply. Therefore, I emailed him the next day saying I think it was rude that he ignored me. Here is my last email to him….and at the end will be his reply. I do not know where to go from here. I did not go to his house on Sunday. When you read this you will see what I mean. I’ve had no contact with him since this last email.

    Hi honey:

    As you know, I have a tendency of communicating openly and honestly. Where I come from and how I was raised, manners are really important to me. It’s just good manners, no matter where you come from to reply, take calls, all of it. I want to have the comfort of knowing that we share the same concerns.

    Your actions show me that you don’t want me to bother with you. It’s like you push me away and that hurts. I know you are a strong passionate, loving, gentle and understanding person who lives in a world of feelings just like me. The difference is, I express my feelings outwardly and you bottle them up. But yet I feel like I understand you in ways that would perplex an outsider and I want to say the right thing when the chips are down. I want to nurture what we have; therefore, I will not offend nor hurt you.

    Please understand that the urge to want to be with you grows each time. I understand you are a devoted family man whose schedule is limited. I know you enjoy your home and everything associated with it, but a girl can try. I never set my expectations high. I am secure with myself enough not to allow myself to get disappointed. Sometimes my anxiety gets the best of me and I need to learn to use my coping skills when this happens. Although I understand some circumstances prevent you from responding to my text immediately, it is discouraging when I receive absolutely no reply. Then you become increasingly distance as my tally of neglect grows. In this respect, it’s either all or nothing. It can lead to a relationship getting either progressively better, or progressively worse. I understand you can be unpredictable with a little bit of everything at different times. I care for you 20 times a day every day.

    I am hoping we can both work on our issues. I know it won’t happen overnight, but I need to communicate my concerns to you. I am hoping you can do the same.

    Once again, I will see you on Sunday around noon!

    His reply….
    Hello , why do you send me these long emails. It drives me crazy! I’m stuck in my ways, also I’m busy and tired. I’m not trying to be mean but if I don’t want to deal with any thing don’t force me. Please back off and if this doesn’t work for you, you know what to do. I know your trying to express your feelings but I do not want to nor do I care to.

    I think this was a very cruel email and it hurt me. I care for this man a great deal and do not know what to do.

  26. Anusha says:

    PiscesCapricorn- “Hello , why do you send me these long emails. It drives me crazy! I’m stuck in my ways, also I’m busy and tired. I’m not trying to be mean but if I don’t want to deal with any thing don’t force me. Please back off and if this doesn’t work for you, you know what to do. I know your trying to express your feelings but I do not want to nor do I care to.”

    Wow what a insensitive and rude reply.It seems that the only thing he cares about is himself and you arent a prority to him.And since you two are together he should care about your fellings.This man has EU writen all over him.I know what Im talking about,he looks a lot like my ex.My ex used to act like if being with me was a bother and that expending time with me was something he just did when he had nothing better to do.This man is the same,he just want to deal with you when is convinient for him and in the meantime he keeps throwing you crumbs(like the one text a day).I understand you love him but for your own good I think you should just walk away and look for somebody that treats you how you want and deserve.

  27. Anusha says:

    Thank you for your reply NML :) I have been reading the posts you recomended and I think that now I got it how Im EU.

  28. Tara says:

    @Meant

    I am so proud of you =) see how strong you are!

  29. Meant to be Happy says:

    @Tara,

    Thanks so much :)

    Even though I sent the “final email” to his personal email addy, he sent a reply to my work email that more or less just said “Agreed”

    So, day 1 has begun for real….

  30. Anusha says:

    Meant to be Happy- NC is the best thing you can do for yourself,welcome back on board :)

  31. PlanetJane says:

    @Butterfly – “I do still intend to be helpful, caring and nurturing and my job channels away that need nicely from something which is a weakness into something which actually helps other people and lets me gather my self esteem.”

    Just curious Butterfly, what do you do? If you don’t mind. I am also a healer type, nurturing and caring and am considering a career change so that I can put those gifts to use, rather than wasting them in my personal life and ending up drained. I actually saw an Astrologer once, and she said that if I didn’t become some type of healer – that I would be drained by needy people in my personal life. Hmph. I think it’s great that you can channel that way through your work!

  32. Butterfly says:

    @PJ – teaching! Adults.

    @Meant … now that you see one word, and sent to your work mail (he knew you’d blocked him cos you told him or cos he just knew?) what he really is, yeah?

  33. Meant says:

    @Anusha – thanks, it’s good to be back

    @Butterfly – there were a few more words there, but basically just agreeing with what I said and thanking me. I didn’t tell him I blocked him, but maybe he guessed since I didn’t get the MSN messages he sent last week. But yeah, kind of feeling like he’s an unfeeling “user” now.

    • NML says:

      Baggage Reclaim now has its own social network where you can create groups and set up forum topics and even chat with other members. This has been set up so that lengthier more personal discussions can take place without causing disruption to the comments.

      I have now reopened comments on this post – please ensure that any new comments are on topic and in line with the guidelines which are highlighted at the top of the comments box. Thanks

My Book - Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl

Stop believing that you did something to make them unavailable or that their inadequacies are down to your inadequacies - it is not about you; they are unavailable!

My Book - Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl

Stop believing that you did something to make them unavailable or that their inadequacies are down to your inadequacies - it is not about you; they are unavailable!