I’ve been speaking with a number of readers recently who have found that in spite of knowing that the person whom they are involved with was no good for them or a relationship, struggle to let it go. A lot of this has to do with something I wrote about recently, normalising bad behaviour.
“You have adapted to the whims and idiosyncrasies each time you have been with these men, so what was abnormal has become totally normal.
This is how you end up becoming distanced from yourself and forgetting who you are, what you need, what you want etc.”
But there’s another offshoot of all this that causes you to feel stuck and helpless, and it’s isolation.
Because you have strayed so far from everything that you thought you believed about yourself and professed to want and need, and because you have internalised a lot of what has been taking place or being said, you have ended up becoming isolated.
When you have no boundaries and keep trying to accommodate the other person in the hope that you will get the relationship you want and the validation that you seek, you end up losing yourself en route.
Often we don’t spend as much time with our families and friends because we fear what they will think of our continued involvement with the person. In some cases though, the person who we are involved with has eroded so far into our sense of self, saying things that have taken root, that we also convince ourselves that if we keep friends and family in our life that he (or she) hasn’t approved of, it will create further problems for us. All it takes is repeated comments or arguments about you talking to/spending time with certain people and you start to distance yourself because you think it will make them happy.
We misguidedly believe that it’s because they love us so much and so passionately that they really want to spend as much time as possible with us and not have us be ‘lost’ to someone else. Or…we believe that they will be able to love us if we do what they want because we believe that we are currently flawed.
We then attempt to please them throwing all of our attention and ‘love’ in their direction only to find that we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t, and often left alone, anyway.
Obviously when we make this one man our focal point, everything else suffers so this only amplifies our dislike of ourselves and also our dependence on them because we start to believe that everything will slot into place and be ‘right’ when you get the relationship you want with them.
So we keep analysing and looking for reasons to blame ourselves for their behaviour or the fact that the relationship is not how we want it to be, and whatever we can seize upon, we’ll use that as another reason to stay invested and morph and adapt further to accommodate the other person.
There are two types of isolation going on here:
The things you assume and seize upon as reasons to propel your fears and distance yourself from ‘you’ so that you can hopefully get the relationship and validation you seek, and,
The all pervasive comments and behaviour by the other party that often amount to bullying and control that ended up stripping away everything you know about yourself – these people can end up stripping away your friends, family, work, your sense of self so that even when you recognise how dangerous and wrong they are, you haven’t got anything familiar left to hold onto, so you keep holding onto them.
I spoke with someone recently whose guy can’t even cope with her being affectionate with her child. Someone else had a girlfriend who felt ‘hurt’ when he spent time with his friends. Many readers have been back and forth with their guy so many times that they feel that they can’t be around their family and friends so much because they don’t think they can be honest about their continued involvement with their assclown or Mr Unavailable.
All of this compounds the feeling of isolation…and dependency.
Because you have tried to redefine yourself based on what you think they want and need you to be in order for you to be ‘right’ for them or because they keep telling you about how if only you weren’t being or doing X,Y, and Z, you could be the perfect person for them, this ‘new’ you needs this other person because you and they have stripped away everything that is familiar to you.
The unfortunate thing about this is that these men, like Mr Unavailable’s and assclowns, is that they often end up leaving you alone so you basically end up up sh*t’s creek without a paddle because you no longer have anything familiar left to hold onto.
You then think that the only way you can find your way back, is to use them as a lifejacket to hold onto, to effectively bring you back to shore. They on one hand represent why you’re so miserable but because everything has been sidelined and abandoned to be with them, they also now appear to be the source of your happiness.
Trouble is, clinging onto someone like this for support is about as much use as a chocolate teapot…
Now think back over all of the relationships that you have been involved in and the morphing, adapting, changing, and shifting that you have been doing in the quest to be loved. Now imagine you have been doing this with each person, shifting for each of their idiosyncrasies and perceived requirements for nabbing a relationship with them – is it any surprise that in redefining yourself for each person and internalising all of the crap en route that you no longer know who you are?
Remember in Pretty Woman when he asks Julia Roberts character what her name is and she says ‘Whatever you want it to be’?
Well for each and every person that loses themselves in other people, if you imagine that someone is asking you who you are each time, you’re saying ‘Whatever you want me to be…if it means you love me and validate me’
It’s no wonder you can’t let go of the relationship and you end up feeling isolated because if you opt out of the madness, they’ll take your latest version of you with them.
Back in part 2 where I explain about how fear will keep you isolated and moving past it. Part 3 is now available.
Get ahead on understanding waste of space men and relationships with my ebook, Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. Find out more and download. If you need personal advice or analysis of your relationship/situation, check out my consultation service.
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One more thing. We can’t really love others unless we love ourselves first. So much of what I feel I learned form the AC is that with him I learned to ” unlove” myself. And then I stopped loving everyone and everything. But that was like hitting bottom and where I started to see a big big problem and got to work figuring it out. Weird stuff, for sure, like a vicious circle. But I have stepped out of it, praise be.
Thanks so much for your replies, I really can’t sleep so thought I’d log on for wisdom and strength!
Firstly, my phone number can’t be blocked, which annoys me immensely. Apparently I must change my number which I am now starting to realise that I must. I thought (and hoped) I wouldn’t be hearing from him again, so I just got on with my life and starting to finally feel better. The last talk we had in May I made it clear to him that I might not respond if there was any further contact. I am starting to think now he must have forgotten that bit. (The ‘old’ email adress is deleted by the way, since months back). But of course, these men don’t care … it’s clearly *all* about them.
I will continue NC, absolutely, what choice does one really have in this situation. I have to survive. This hit me really hard though .. and I’ve got a new work related course starting up Monday morning that’s a bit demanding. I’ve had a great summer, really feeling fine but now I realise it doesn’t take much to have a setback, so ladies, block *everything*! As many have said before me, it truly is the only way! Until my new number is installed, I will delete everything he might send without reading.
I think it’s the mixed messages and what I feel is emotional manipulation that is getting to me more than anything else. Firstly he misses me, and then he goes on to apportion blame when somehow he must know that the better part of us breaking up lies with him and his issues. We could never really enjoy a happy relaxing time together because of his deep set fears of attachement. I would have been able to handle this much better if he had not sent me that last ‘blaming’ text, it really felt like the last straw.
I don’t think the danger of being invilved with these men can be underestimated. These men are very dangerous to our health in every way. I even got feverish a few hours after his voicemail messages and texts.
Feeling slightly better but this is truly awful. I believe you are right Butterfly, people can say ‘he’s not that into you’ etc. and give out any old chlichéd line, but before you’re really have had to deal with this ‘condition’ there’s no way of knowing how deeply, and negatively, these people can affect you.
Aphrogirl: OMG! I read, exactly what you described, and what NML describes, and what is also described in in He’s Scared, She’s Scared by Steven Carter and Julia Sokol.
Something along the lines of: “Think of it like this; the boat has sunk and you are waiting on the person who sunk the boat to rescue you. What would you do? What you should do, is stop treading water, get the lay of the land and swim towards shore as fast as you can. The other person, the one who sunk the boat, cannot/will not help you. You are waiting, waiting, waiting . . .”
I didn’t stop loving everyone and everything, but I certainly focused too much on the other person who liked (he had to) the ambiguity that he lived in and caused. He had to. He was over fifty years of age for goodness sakes.
That is why these men/people (I don’t think that this is a genderless issue) cause so much damage. In my world, prior to him, once I figured out the problem, I thought, I made a decision, and I acted. I moved forward. With this one, I got stuck for three years. And I got addicted. Ughhhhh….
Well, better quit focusing on what I did or didn’t do, and start staying in my head and my heart and moving forward. I want to believe that my MM was different, that he was a tortured soul, that he was trying to do the right thing by his family, etc.
Reality check: I shouldn’t have been fishing there, he shouldn’t have been in those waters.
Reality check: I now know that I have a problem. I now know that I allowed him in. I should have turned and run the other way.
Reality check: I have to fight this damned addiction every single day.
Reality check: I can’t save him. I can only save me.
@Angelina – “I want to believe that my MM was different, that he was a tortured soul, that he was trying to do the right thing by his family, etc.†– Yeah, me too. But every one of your reality checks applies to me!
Some of you were discussing Attachment avoidance and anxiety earlier, and wondering from where they originate (Serena, Butterfly, Leonine?). I am reading Howard Halpern’s “How to break your addiction to a personâ€. He suggests that problems during the attachment stage of early infancy, when the child has all survival needs met by the mother (indeed, the infant may even feel that he/she is *one* with the mother)- problems such as not receiving an adequate level of attachment/needs fulfillment, can be a factor in relationship addiction. Also, the period of time where the child needs to be “launched†from the security of the ever-present mother (around 18 months old) can be problematic if the child is not “allowed†to launch, either because the mother does not portray faith in the child’s ability to “go it aloneâ€, or because the mother has her own unsatisfied attachment needs and hesitates to let the child go. These problems lead to what Halpern calls “attachment hungerâ€, and compel you to seek and cling to relationships in an addictive way.
He goes on to suggest that “later experiences with insufficient or disturbed loving by either parent/other important people, or their failure to support your independence may also cause you to cling to someone now in the hope of gaining what you feel is lacking in yourself – the ability to survive, to be safe and to be happy. .. the old illusion appears in your current life as *the mother or father to whom you looked to make you feel good, secure and strong exists in the person with whom you are now involved; therefore, if you can get that person to love you, everything will be OK.
* Your addictive compulsion to recapture that early state of being through a connection with that special person, a person who could not possibly fulfill a need rooted in your infancy, means that you are addicted* (Halpern, 2004, pp18-20). We know we are addicted when it is more like a compulsion than a choice to be with the person, when we continue with them even though we know they’re bad for us, when we panic at the thought of the absence of the person, and when we get withdrawal symptoms/ feeling of exile, but also a feeling of *liberation* when the relationship ends.
Looking forward to that feeling of liberation…
“So strong is their basic self-centeredness and desire to exploit others that people may be dropped from their lives with complete indifference to the anguish they might
experience or how their lives will be affected. He or she preys on the weak and vulnerable, enjoying their dismay and anger.”
This is from a work on various psychological matters and this pertains to Narc behaviour. Please note: flippy flappy EU behaviour should not be taken as being the same as this, quite often they are just commitmentphobic. For those around Narcs this should not be news.
I can certainly see lots of dysfunctional behaviour in my family Meant, though I think it was a fairly typical family in most ways. My mother was overprotective and I have always had a compensatory tendancy to counterdependence (hence I can say I was EUW). I think it is immensely useful to know WHY, but as to analysing minutiae – well, this is not for me, if you spend too longn analysing every little thing then you can’t also keep your eyes ahead to make sure you’re not walking into oncoming traffic.
Angelina’s comments re addiction and the feelings surrounding it are spot on though. However, again, there is a world of difference between the EU guy and a Narc: the EU guy is a bit of a jerk with big fear issues, the MM is greedy, the Narc spots you as ripe for the picking and squeezes the life out of you then tosses you aside into a pile of others waiting for you to regenerate just enough to be squeezed dry again.
@G – the good news is that you then have a choice, whether to pin all the attention on him/the past or to see that there are many learning opportunities in this for you and not to do things the same way again. Plus you will spot flippyflappiness etc much sooner and these men lose their appeal in a flash the second that you do. I’m speaking for myself here but I hope others will agree. I don’t feel bad when I opt out either, or that I have been “mean” for being honest and truthful.
Thanks Butterfly – it helps to get some feedback on things.
I think Halpern has it right that attachment avoidance/anxiety starts in infancy. Those paragraphs were spot on for me personally. Lots of work to be done apparently; thanks Meant for including them.
Brad – I reread your post to me and I thought it a bit harsh. I am feeling a bit fragile at the moment so it was in part, hard to take in. (He lives far away from me, so he can only stalk me by phone until my number is changed).
I am still trying to resist giving him a piece of my mind, I am fighting this urge and am hopeful to win! I just want to feel good for opting out of this.
Angelina, that is good ship allegory but heres the way I see it… the guy keeps alternatively jumping ship and looking back to me to throw the lifesaver. When he gets control of the ship he has the distinct tendency to steer her towards the rocky coast, at night of course, when things get dark, on sunny days he sails it just fine. Finally one night the ship hits the rocks and starts to go down. So there I am, sinking with it and a bot worn out from watching and worrying the fool was going to jump ship or steer us into the rocks. So now we are sinking and I know I have to get to safety, and I figure we’ll swim together, encourage each other, maybe help each other if one starts to struggle….but, nope, t there the fool is, swimming off away from shore because he is so very blind, or maybe he has a death wish that day. Regardless, it is so very hard for me to leave him behind and save myself.
No, I never wanted or needed to be rescued but I did develop a relationship with a guy who does love to sail and jump ship but has a serious flaw in that he can’t swim. Losing battle because he really was too afraid to learn to swim, and I figure by the time you are middle age you are supposed to sign up for the damn lessons yourself and quit looking for swimming coaches amongst your peers.The illusion I harbored was that he wanted to be a capable swimmer.
Somehow this made me feel like a failure – because he “asked” me for help with his struggling, po boy, needy, ways, but then he refused to actually do the work needed to transcend those self imposed struggles. Being inexperienced with one who actually would not want to work on their troubles, I ended up angry, frustrated, unhappy, hopeless etc ect. That led me to stay away from everyone because I knew I was becoming a drain to to others.
Writing this makes me think of the fact that depression and negative thinking are a bit contagious so let me end here on a positive note.
NC is the best thing you can do for you and probably for the other person also. It is insightful and makes the space necessary for insight, for you to look inside, process and grow. With contact that space is filed up with trying to deal with the irrational, the cruel, the wishy washy, the whatever version of distraction you problem child/ AC brings to your table.
Ah what goes does it do though? The texts got nastier to “punish” you for daring to ignore him. HIM! How DARE you ignore HIS needs, who the hell do YOU think YOU are? Well, it’s not him is it? He’s feeling so much and pouring it out to you.
My hunch is that if you had responded, esp responded to the bit about loving you, you’d have had a brief time of happiness which felt fake underneath and quite sad once the “rush” had passed – followed by delpetion, devaluation and dumping … based on how he is reacting.
I used to be crushed that he never texted me, he was is so lazy that text is an effort. Now, I am glad.
This site makes me remember things though. I will share three things that illustrate the Narc well.
- When I went to see him I took some mince pies – these were meant to be for his family as discussed, for Xmas. He took them from me, didn’t look at them and put them on the highest possible shelf and closed the door immediately. I bet they are still there, mouldy. He asked me to bring them.
- When I left my stuff there “for the next time you are over” this was because he had said he wanted to leave stuff. The bathroom stuff he was annoyed about. My clothes I left (in a size I aimed to fit into) I know for a fact he has worn and probably had his solo jollies with – and quite possibly, since he was going to a cross dressers convention then decided we were back off again he wore them to meet a woman actively looking for an ugly man in someone’s “frock”. It was just the clothes he wanted – partially as a control issue and partially cos he wanted my clothes.
Yeah I know. LOL.
- When I moved here and had this exciting life change, I sent him some pictures. He didn’t look at them when I sent them – this is the man professing that he loved me “and I think I always will” citing that they “took too long to load” (I asked a week later and I’ve used his PC which is absolutely fine).
Butterfly, what amazes me is how many of us here have heard the same phrases, or shared almost identical difficult experiences… ( well except maybe for the stealing of clothes : )) but the pies left sitting to mould, and the pictures, check…..so very strange.
Ok, so, what’s the point here? maybe that there is a profile of a guy who can take us far away from our goal of being healthy, if we are not hip to it. Let’s accept the fact we may be susceptible for some reason, and are learning what it is so we can get on with life and spot this profile next time we are drawn to them or they are drawn to us.
Meantime, while we are learning, lets take good care of our physical and emotional health so we can come from a position of solid strength next time we encounter any version of the AC.
I forgot to mention. Last night I was out to dinner with good freinds and friends and they asked me out sailing this morning and I said no right away, as has been my habit for too long.I have this convenient excuse of a very huge project I am working on, the I have to work excuse.
They challenged me, said they have asked me all summer, and I immediately though of what I hsd written here and said, yeah you right and told them I would go.
So, I see that I am working hard to get out with others as much as I can and be a positive force when I am out there with them.
Thank you meant and and Angelina for the coments on my post
Meant- You mentioned Howard Halpern’s book,I have read it too and I can say is a very good book.It realy helped me to understand my adiction to my EUM.I realy like how he explain exactaly what causes the adiction and the ways he sugests to break free from it are very nice too.He sugests in a part of the book that to overcome that we need to make our pratical judgement stronger(what I think I have done already here by being convinced that my EUM is no good for me) and lessen your atachment hunger(that I didnt completely did yet).I think the fact that I still fell the yearning for him shows that the atachment hunger is still strong (but not so strong as it used to be before when it used to comand my actions) so now I just need to work on that.
@aphrogirl GREAT! That’s so good, cos you and I both know that once you get over your initial worry you’ll think “why didn’t I do this before?”. Your friends clearly have some insight into your reluctance, fantastic, don’t forget sunblock tho cos the reflection off the water amplifies UV
Cluck cluck says mother hen!
I’ve been a bit of a shut in this weekend – this being the weekend I didn’t get to go on this date. I’m trying to see if there is any colloration and I have to say that I don’t think so, I have been in an upbeat mood interspersed with immense tiredness. I’m realising that having run round like a loony and been walking everywhere instead of getting buses or trams I am simply tired/the Epstein Barr is grumbling. I’ve still got lots done this weekend and am enjoying being in MY environment and MY home doing what I want. However, I also have this wedding coming up in a few week’s time and I’d like to leave the country and then come back home to a welcoming clean space
LOL … song on the radio made me come post:
Yeah, thunder only happens when it’s raining
Players only love you when they’re playing
Yeah, women they will come and they will go
When the rain washes you clean you’ll know, you’ll know
“Dreams” by The Corrs
@Butterfly
I listen to that song when I want to feel negative/realistic about the ex – but I listen to Fleetwood Mac’s version.
The song that fits for me today is Keri Hilson’s “Energy”
the chorus:
“I’m having nightmares from sleeping with the enemy
How did we reverse the chemistry
I don’t want us to be the end of me
This love is taking all of my energy
Energy, My Energy”
And I like “No Surprise” by Daughtry, which is on the radio a lot right now over here on the West side of the Atlantic.
I am like you though – if a song that reminds me of him in a romantic way comes on, I usually have to change the channel so I don’t dissolve into a blob of jelly on the floor. Gonna get some “strong woman” songs going in my head now…
oops, a later verse in Keri’s song is better suited to what a lot of us are going through here:
“Now I can feel a change in me
And I can’t afford to slip much further
From the person I was Meant to be (whoooaa)
Im not afraid to walk alone
Not givin up but movin on
Before it gets to deep
Cuz you’re takin all of my energy”
I capitalized the “meant” for my own benefit lol – I think these lyrics are ones I need to take notice of!!!
Oh I tough through it – I know I am bad for associations and my very firm belief is to make new ones. So atm yes I’d not be making song associations with this clown of yours hon if I were you. I’m thinking these days “it’s hurting, of course it’s hurting, that’s part of healing” maybe. LOL. I rather liked how the lyric popped out at me tho, this is nothing new we are going through, any of us. Songs are, as NML says, full of it.
At some point you’ll get sick of looking back at “him” and want to look at something else. Truly
So long as you go NC and that NC involves not thinking about him etc. NC is the bedrock, it’s the first step but IS the first step. You know you can do this, now you need to work out what you actually want for you 
Oh and it’s not romantic rememberance in my case – I’ve thought about this. They invariably are hooked in with his Narc – his dreams of glory and devaluing me in “awww honey you know I am only messing, you know I love you” ways. Again, difference between an EU man and a Narc … there ARE no songs which remind me of “us” because there was no “us” only a me and him which really was a him him him “oh yeah there you are”. As he used to sing to me and then say he was joking “it’s all about meeeeee”. Tit
Ladies, I broke NC, right on third week’s eve.
But I think I have closure now. He had emailed me last night, telling me how he’s been thinking about me all the time, checking his phone an email every hour to see whether there was anything from me. I didn’t write back. Didn’t sleep either, and at 3 a.m. I was on my laptop rereading old emails when – of all people – my mother signed on. She knows about the MM because my mother is the keeper of most my secrets. This morning I filled her in on the 3 weeks of NC and how I had left things. My mother, whose accomplishments and strength of character just make her unhappy marriage to my dad all the more strange, doesn’t mince words and cuts to the chase.
I told her I missed him. She asked whether he was missing me as much. I said that he had told me he was. She then asked whether he missed me enough to move to the other coast and I told her that I didn’t know – never asked. My mom then said that since I had always waffled and then was the one to move away that he might very well think that he was “out for good”. So the only way to resolve things once and for all was for me to clearly say, either you commit to me and be with me or don’t call me anymore. She said that life was going by all too quickly and I needed to find out where we stood: either we’d be together or I needed to move on.
My subsequent reply to his email was exactly was 2 short sentences. I said, “I miss you and I love you and want to be with you. I want you to come”. Hard to believe but over the last two years of our involvement I had never actually spelled it out like that. I suspect now that maybe in the back of my mind my own ambiguity allowed me to never quite end things, to leave an open door, and – this is hard to admit but I think it is true – to always be able to rationalize his lack of real commitment because I could always justify it by never actually asking for it.
Well I’d say this time my declaration was unequivocal. Took me a while to send it, but finally I did, and went back to bed. When my email beeped while I was working at home this morning, anxiety hit me so hard that I got nauseated. My mom was online again and prodded me till I opened it though. And I had my answer: after the introductory I-need-you’s and I-want-you’s, he said that there were two thousand miles between us after all and we both had “commitments and other people”. He said that he knew he was being selfish but he really wanted his best friend back.
I don’t think I have ever cried this hard before. But you know what? When I was done crying, I felt something I hadn’t felt in a couple of years now: a certainty. I asked him to come and he said no. There was nothing to interpret or reinterpret, no question as to what came next. He doesn’t love me the way that I love him. And somehow, I feel differently right now than I did last night. We’re not star crossed lovers, always coming back to each other because we can’t stand to be apart even as life keeps pulling us in different directions. We’re not together because given the choice he made the decision not to be. And it didn’t even take him very long – he sent that email at the exact same time he has been sending his morning emails to me for two years now. Took care of business in time for breakfast.
It hurts like hell, but on the other hand my mental picture of him has changed: he is no longer the unhappy guy in an unhappy marriage that he was –supposedly – manipulated into. He cares about me, but he cares about her more. The unhappy part – what a crock of s*t. You have all said it. I don’t know why, after reading the posts here for a month, I thought that the email I got last night had shown him just how much he can’t live without me. I’m not special, and neither is he. It was an affair, and now it is over. And he is not my scared and confused soul mate. He’s just a guy that wanted it both ways.
@aphrogirl,
“With contact that space is filed up with trying to d.eal with the irrational, the cruel, the wishy washy, the whatever version of distraction you problem child/ AC brings to your table.”
Amen
Oh Butterfly, you seem to see things so clearly. Your ex is a narc, I don’t think mine is, but you know the way you describe him treating you reminds me of how *I* treated my ex the last few (alcohol-influenced) talks I had with him. I put him down (I actually told him he was f***ed at one point, which is language I would rarely use), then apologized next day and told him that some of what I said was “tongue in cheek”. Then, in the last email I sent him (on the last day of the conference) I did tell him he had *some* positive qualities, and that I liked him as a person. So now I am left wondering – am *I* acting in a hurtful, narky way? Or was I just so frustrated by his inertia/ blowing hot and cold/ inability to tell me how he felt/ no plans to leave his wife that I became almost vindictive towards him, and that’s why I said those mean, devaluing things? Sorry, just thinking out loud – I don’t expect anyone else to be able to answer these. But one thing’s for sure, I don’t like the person I am when I’m with him.
Sometimes I wish my ex would be just a little mean to me, like your ex did with you, so I could be more angry with him. Although, I’m sure that hurt you, and I feel badly for you that he did that to you.
I am almost tempted to email him and apologize for putting him down – although I know he has not treated me properly through all of this, I am starting to think that maybe I have had a huge part in how this whole interaction with him played out. He says I am “demanding” because I want him to *express* how he feels. Maybe I misinterpreted his intentions all along. Of course I did – he wanted a fb and I wanted a relationship. He probably “expressed” how he felt just to keep me around – but he insists that he didn’t *want* to develop feelings for me, they just happened and he couldn’t help it. He says he wants a relationship with me no matter what – whether lovers, friends or colleagues – just as long as we have *some* relationship.
OK, I’m getting out of control. I will join in with Angelina again – it doesn’t matter, it doesn’t matter, it doesn’t matter.
@Aega
Wow -looks like you got some closure!!
“I don’t know why, after reading the posts here for a month, I thought that the email I got last night had shown him just how much he can’t live without me. I’m not special, and neither is he. It was an affair, and now it is over. And he is not my scared and confused soul mate. He’s just a guy that wanted it both ways.”
You have learned a lot in 24 hours!!! I know that must hurt like hell, but wow, you had a lot of guts to send that email (even tho it was breaking NC), and you have your reply.
Thank you for sharing that – I will try to learn from you and NOT email my ex to apologize!!! Hugs to you Aega, many hugs to you
Ohgodohgodohgod… @Meant – my MM said the exact thing to me: he wanted me in his life in any capacity – friend, lover, etc – he just knew he *had to* have me in it somehow. I wish now he showed some cruelty, too, but he won’t. I think that they are afraid to do that. They know that you can cut them down to size if provoked and their ego or sense of insecurity just couldn’t take that.
Aega,
I love your mother! What an amazing woman, and you obviously take after her!
I don’t have my parents anymore, but I sure wish I did.
You were really brave and smart to spell it out to the MM, and even more brave to see the finality in his response.
It is pretty obvious that for most MM, they do want to stay with their wives while having the romantic, exciting relationship with their side-lovers, and while for some women that seems to be enough, I think for most of us, we desire commitment.
The guy I used to be in love with never would give me a definite with his actions. He always said with words: “It’s almost over” “I’ll be with you soon” but it didn’t happen, so I had to be the one to walk away.
You wrote: “It was an affair, and now it is over. And he is not my scared and confused soul mate. He’s just a guy that wanted it both ways.”
It is a painful realization, coming to that conclusion, but it is also the beginning of real healing. Thanks for sharing that story with us.
All: I think there are so many good points in this post and in the comments. What I like about this site, is that people tend to stay away from the negative “bashing” that can be so prevalent in an anonymous venue.
I found this site over a year ago. Man, you’d think I’d be all better by now, but . . . that really isn’t my point. The threads have consistenly been focused on rebuilding, forgiving ourselves, and moving on. I think that is what keeps me coming back.
I am prone to “pining” about him and the what ifs, and the whys, etc. But getting out of his head, going NC, and focusing on me has kept me moving forward. There are slips, and I am not yet to indifference, or some version of something like that, but I am feeling confident to throw out all of the books that I have kept on this topic. I mean, how many times do I need to read that I am addicted and codependent?
Apparently, a lot. I need to shift that energy to rebuilding. And, again, that is why NC is so so so powerful. It isn’t about him. It is about keeping me safe from no more hurt.
While I want a relationship, I’ve got to stay away from them until I heal. There is no point in putting myself or anyone else through this nonsense again.
Thanks to all for sharing your journeys out and your journeys forward.
@Meant,
I have to admit that “mom made me do it”, I don’t think I’d have had the guts to do it on my own (oh yes, the mature 39-year-old in me comes out…)
Don’t apologize. You have nothing to apologize for. Here’s my analogy: you have each been sitting on opposite edges of this huge crevasse, and a pendulum is swinging back and forth between you. You saw each other at the conference, and you allowed for the fact that you still care for him and told him so. You pushed the pendulum over to his side. He characterized your wanting to have a clear dialogue with him as “demading”, which swung the pendulum back into your lap. Well, I say you keep it there. The two of you have been pushing it back and forth between you for so long, he is EXPECTING it to come right back his way. Sure enough, when one person is holding it off to one side there is tension in it and you feel compelled to push it back, keep it swinging. But now think how he is looking at it. You let him back into your life some. He rebuffs your wanting to share a deeper relationship, and he is fully expecting for you to come right back with some kind of reaction or response. Waiting for that pendulum to come swinging back. And then it doesn’t. You are breaking the pattern, doing the exact opposite of what he is expecting. Let him sit there with this thing in his lap trying to think back and analyze what he did wrong this time to have you lose interest in replying.
My MM had me second guessing myself for these past 3 weeks until I put it on the line. His email last night had been an almost pathetic pleading. I responded. But he shrunk back right away and countered with the usual wishy washy, only this time – because I had asked out right – the wishy washy was actually a very unequivocal answer. Now, true to form, he is expecting for me to come back with something reassuring, giving him what he needs without asking too much. Well, he ain’t gettin’ it. After how I opened myself up only a one-way plane ticket would have been the right response; what I got instead doesn’t deserve an answer.
Let him wonder. God know you have for a very long time now. Leave him hanging without explaining why you’re doing it. I have to say that my coming clean made me feel right – I laid my cards open. He left them there, so I’m walking away from the table without further comment. It feels good.
@Lisa,
I am really sorry you don’t have your parents anymore. It breaks my heart that my mom, who has always given me the right advice and kept my confidence, didn’t take care of herself the same way. 4 marriages and not one was happy. She stayed married that last time, but it is just a none-too-peaceful coexistence of two completely different people under one roof. She had so much to offer (I believe stil does) but never saw it. Smart, succesful, drop-dead gorgeous, but the fear of the unknown always kept her back. I’ve given up on pushing her to leave my dad because she is settled into the status quo now. But I take her advice now, because I wouldn’t want to be living out my golden years with my father.
Yes, there was always that promise of “soon” in the air, wasn’t it? I think that these guys marry women that are “safe”. My MM’s wife’s ambition was to have kids and stay home with them and she made that her life. He can profess all he wants that she is bland and lazy (it’s his side of the story, I don’t know that it is true, I never asked or assumed that it was), but apparently it must be what he wanted because he is staying. Long before we had the affair, he used to complain how he never had time for himself because even though his kids were with their grandparents 5 days out of the week he was expected to take care of them the second he came home. That he cooked and cleaned and such while she watched Oprah. That the physical part of their marriage went once the children were born and how he had never been that attracted to her physically all that much and then lost whatever was left after she gained a lot of weight. I think this story was part of why I fell in love: here was this intelligent, dedicated guy with a great sense of humor being used as a meal ticket. Oh yeah I was looking to save…
Aega: “My mother, whose accomplishments and strength of character just make her unhappy marriage to my dad all the more strange, doesn’t mince words and cuts to the chase.”
Wow! You just described my mother, and how I feel about their marriage. Clearly, two people who should have never stayed together. And I do mean never. Their only common bond was religion. Thing is, I could never share this journey with my mother. She would share it with everyone.
Aega and Meant: My MM said the same things: “I just want my best friend back; It won’t be today, it won’t be tommorow, there won’t be immediate leaving, but I will leave; You are being demanding; You are insistent.” etc., etc., etc.
Aega: although I am older than you, in reading your posts, it is as if you were describing my relationship with my EUM. There is some article out there – on the web – about My Married Man is Different.
Isn’t there something that we can do to innoculate women from this very very very destructive dynamic? Even though I am trying to not look back, and only move forward, I do wonder: How in the world did I get here?
Yes, I made choices that I shouldn’t have, yes, I stayed in a place that I should have never been, but, damn! How can we get this info out there before the fact and not after?
“Let him wonder. God know you have for a very long time now. Leave him hanging without explaining why you’re doing it. I have to say that my coming clean made me feel right – I laid my cards open. He left them there, so I’m walking away from the table without further comment. It feels good.”
Very good Aega,by the way you talking about it it shows how much improvement you made.I know it wasnt easy to do what you did and took a lot of courage but it was the best you could do for yourself.No more drama and indecision,now you are ready to move on and find somebody who can give you what you want.
@Anusha – thank you. The indecision is the hardest part, isn’t it?
@Angelina,
It seems as though it’s a lesson we learn for ourselves despite warnings left and right. I have asked myself the same question over and over – how did I get here? I know better and I am better than this. It used to be that if a man sparked some interest in me and I then learned that he was attached in some way that in itself would kill the spark. I could never imagine not only taking another’s woman husband, but also considered myself above becoming somebody’s second pickings. After college I met a guy who was pathologically narcissistic; you wouldn’t have believed the web of lies I had got caught in. When I found out he had lied and cheated, it was as though something inside me turned off. I walked away. When he tried to get me back I told him that he had the wrong girl – I had no use for leftovers.
I don’t know that there is any way of innoculating others before they get burned. Think about the caliber of women that make up the community on this site: with the integrity, insight, and sense of humor all have displayed here it is hard to believe this group would have produced even one “patsy”. I wonder whether after getting through the tough parts in life, knowing that we were strong enough to make it on our own and trusting in our ability to tell right from wrong and smart from stupid we thought we were immune from falling into unhealthy relationships. We all knew the story: boy meets girl, boy marries girl, boy wants more than a girl so boy goes after a woman. But in the end an actual woman is too much for a boy and he is just that – a boy, not a man.
Gloria Steinem said that all men are divided into men, boys and hairdressers (and not meaning sexual orientation by it), and all women are either women or girls. I think that there are more women than men out there.
@meant – I am calling my ex Narky cos it amuses me to … no darling you are not a narc … far far far from it and don’t you dare mail him! x
Aega
It strikes me that the the guy is really not so happy in his version of relationship with anyone. Having it both ways is what worked for him, he knows it’s selfish, but his fantasy version of happy with you is emo-lite and it’s probably the same in his unhappy marriage. Can’t commit and work to make it good with the wife, nor with you, I suspect he is bound to be unhappy.
I am not sure he is actively “choosing” her, rather he is too cowardly to really examine his own life and his commitments to his own happiness. I would bet that he is a rather cowardly, scared man-child who got off on the fantasy of being with you until you asked him to completely confront it and drop the fantasy. You made the fantasy real, and that may be something he cannot maturely face.
By not saying something a helluva lot more meaningful than he did he slunk into avoidance of full on emotional integrity. He could have explained that his choice was to stay because of kids and marriage commitment, that he was going to try to become an emotionally intelligent man, that he was going to try like hell to have a truly fulfilling relationship with his family.
And, if he was emotionally intelligent he would have the insight and resulting empathy to realize he had led you on with his confusion, his dishonest wordsand the fact that maybe he really wanted to be brave and honest and deep and clear but… he is none of those things.
Regardless, I am so sorry, this is a hard thing to hear and I do know how you feel. And yes, Mom’s advice was right on. It was so important for you to spell it out, to be clear, to make sure you were not some version of EU all along, and that is the reason it never worked out. All the more reason for us to be clear and direct and opt out asap with anyone showing signs of ambiguity who is not able to confront the wishy washiness.
Nothing much is harder than experiencing a person whom you loved, trusted and believed in make the choice to not try to love and believe in you in return.
And all these songs… not for nothing, but I hardly listen to radio ever, I never really understood all the tortured unrequited love songs that seem to dominate the airwaves until the indecisive EUM.
But, indecisive love is bit of a silly kind of unrequited love. I am now so sure that real and strong love is a sure thing, no wondering is involved. And whether unrequited love happens with EU moms, dads, friends or lovers – the unrequited love of people who can or will not try is a universal heart wrenching condition that most people experience at some point in their lives. Of course, the fact that its pretty universal does not make it much easier.
So now you know what you are recovering from….a con artist of the heart. Part of the recovery is we have to look at how we let ourselves be conned. Big hearts, big dreams,strong faith and trust in others goodness… these are not bad things but learning how to live with them and knowing how to really evaluate others worthiness is a part of our journey.
Thanks, aphrogirl, I just logged back in and saw your post. Despite the official closure (because I do have it, there is no more question of what-if) it’s hard to swallow how fast he ran when I said what I did.
It’s ironic that you said, ” he knows it’s selfish”, because after he brought up the commitments to other people he actually wrote that verbatim before telling me he wanted his best friend back.
One of the reasons that I keep my ideal of love that’s equally deep to both people alive is that over the years I have seen so many of my male friends go through the same hurts and disappointments as women do. When a man professes to feel this much, I believe it. This episode is not going to change my fundamental belief that most people are good, even if many make mistakes that hurt others. I am however questioning my judgement. Why didn’t I see that only one of us was playing for keeps?
The end of indecision and ambiguity leaves room for grief. In a way I hurt more now than I did over some of our more elaborate “endings”. This is it. As I’m sitting here bawling, however (oh yes, knowing that I did the right thing doesn’t change how much of a loss this is to me), one thing is different: I don’t wish that he were here to comfort me. Those fantastic hugs? They meant so much because I thought that they were coming from someone who loved me as much as I did him. I don’t want him to call me up and try to take back what he said. The person I would have given anything to keep does not exist. All of you here, on the other hand, are very much real. The support you are giving me right now is heartfelt and it means more than you can imagine. I know that I’ve been a fool but it hurts so much anyway and I am grateful to be able to tell it to someone that doesn’t write it off as significant.
Think I’m gonna go now paint me some headless chicks…
oops, thinking faster than typing – that would be ‘insignificant’, not ‘significant’…
@ G,
I apologize for sounding harsh. Your message was a bit frightening to me.
It seems we have very different meanings for some things. When I read No Contact, on this web site, it means something quite permanent and specific. NC means you have done everything you could to block someone’s ability – not just permission, but all avenues of technology and social contacts – to contact you.
For me a red flag is a warning indicator, something that offsets something about someone I find attractive. Each red flag means that I will not consent to any kind of significant relationship until that red flag is resolved – to my satisfaction.
But there are levels of warnings. At a certain point, I really don’t care about answers, explanations, or anything further – I hit a boundary. A boundary is a very powerful concept. There are certain neighborhoods that outsiders don’t enter, and there are certain people and behaviors that we avoid from the same reasons – it isn’t safe for us. One of my boundaries is that the other person has an existing attachment. She is married? Poof. That is a boundary I will not cross. She is going with someone else? Poof – she is shopping around, or using dating for mere social recreation – and I don’t care to play the games, nor dare to waste time being entangled myself, where nothing good can come of it. If she is entangled, that takes me out of being available – in case someone worthwhile for me were to come along.
I meant to say, that your ex is a known “unsafe” person for you. He doesn’t get to make another first impression, he never gets to leave his past behind, and his past is pretty much a boundary that I would never consider changing for him.
I never meant to be harsh, just to be clear that I see nothing good coming from your contacting him, from your worrying about what he is doing or thinking now, or from your even knowing he tried to call, or email, or text, or whatever.
Blessed be.
.-= Brad K.´s last blog ..A theme song for the EUM cycle =-.
@meant my email is playing up can you mail me!!!!
my heart goes out to all that have posted here with regard to being involved with an EUM. i to was in all of your shoes until one day i got enough of his BS sent him one final email and put NC in place for good. this all took place a little under 3 months ago.
does it still hurt to know i had to let go of someone who i deeply cared for? sure it does. i also know that time takes care of a lot of things and it will take care of this too.
one thing that i have learned about being involved with this type of man is they do erode at your self worth over time. they love to be in control and when you finally put your foot down and mean what you say and stick to your guns and begin to regain your power back they don’t like this. it makes them feel out of control.
the other thing i noticed about these men is that no matter how much you threaten to leave,no matter how many angry emails,text messages you send etc.. they always seem to know that it’s only hot air being blown around and with enough time for you to cool down they know it won’t be all that diffulcult to win you over once again.
it all happened to me as to the reason i can speak about it now. i would literally curse this man out call him every bane i could think of tell him i never wanted to ever see him again and guess what happenened? he would allow however much time to pass(ie usually 2-6 months) and then the email would come and the vicious cycle would repeat itself all over again.
he knew that no matter what he did,no matter how angry i got that i would always take him back. this was the pattern that i set in place with him and why should he change something that was working for him.
this is why i have done what i did for the final time. i refuse to have any more contact with this man. he is very toxic and will continue to drag me deeper into the pit of despair if i continue to see him.
will he attempt to contact me? who knows but his behavior pattern says that he will when things in his mind have cooled down. in the meantime i have blocked all the ways of him getting to me outside of him coming to my house.
i doubt any of what i have set in place will deter him guys like this always seem to find a way around what we do. this one is no different.
at least for now i feel better knowing that at least for the time being i have bought myself some time to heal with having NC in place.
Aega- Yes indecision is the worst part,so be glad you finaly out from that.
Im a bit nostalgic for the EUM right now,wondering if he still thinks about me or misses me (I know,I know,it doesnt matter and that actualy came to my mind when I started thinking about it).I have said to myself that I wouldnt try to figure him out anymore,I did that all my relationship with him so I wont do it now anymore.You wont believe all the mental energy I spent trying to understand why he did this or said that or if he realy loved me or not,it is exausting.So I decided to use this site to try to figure ME out from now on.But I cant help to keep wondering about his last text(the one about 2 months ago congratulating me for my team winning).Why he did that? I mean we havent talked for 2 months and I not even care about soccer,so isnt like that was important to me.Even though he didnt send anything more after that I realy think that he had other intentions behind it.I dont know what was exactaly but I guess he was testing me to see how I would react with his contact.It was his birthday a month before that text and for the first time ever since I meet him I didnt wish him happy birthday and been those 2 months NC so he probably was surprised by all that and wondering if I had moved on and then decided to check.Like NML says when they fell there is a big evidence that he might be losing you they reach out again to make sure you stay invested even if they dont want to be with you.At least that is what I think it happened,dont you think? And I see now that I shouldnt have answered,I know it was just a “thank you” but I think that for him maybe that was the confirmation that I was still invested that he was after.Anyway at least I know now if he texts me again is better to just ignore it.
Wow!! this has really hit home!!! It was like you were there! There I was with my ex-EUM…I had morphed into this version of what I thought that he wanted and yet repeatedly he kept putting across to me in subltle yet humiliating ways that I STILL was not enough for him and not the woman for him…yet at the same time, kept saying that he loved me… Its not that I really wanted him to begin with but I needed to know that he did want me and that I was enough, perfect and great the way that I was. I clung onto the memories of the way he treated like gold to begin with, before the mental and emotional abuse began.I remember getting isolated and feeling so alone.I though I would die without him cos I felt I had no one else who understood or knew me, but I got the strength from God to split up with him and now I am close with my family and friends and have been slowly letting them know what happened;and they are horrified. So never again will I go back there…I have began to find out what I want and like and need and so far the journey has been amazing, albeit scary…lol .Thanks to all you wonderful strong women and NML for the support when it gets tough!! At least I know there are people that really understand! hugs to all xoxoxoxo
Anusha, I think it’s an ego boost for him. Something we may have been guilty of in junior high – you know, the cute guy that everybody said liked you, but you never even noticed before? Didn’t you ever flash him your dazzling 12-year-old smile just to see him blush even though you didn’t sit by him at lunch? And blush he did, so you probaby smiled at him a few more times again even though you never did sit by him at lunch. You may have smiled a little brighter if he started paying attention to someone else, too.
The thing is that a certain amount of preteen cruelty went with pig-tails, but we grew out of both. So don’t give someone who is still stuck in junior high the satisfaction of replying to his little teasers. You’ve called his bluff before and he couldn’t muster much of an adult response to your adult approach. You know how at a club cheesy guys sometimes try to hit on you with the lamest of lines? And you roll your eyes and don’t bother to reply? It may not be their fault for not knowing how to sustain normal social interaction but neither are you obligated to put up with it. You’ve got better things to do.
Meant to be happy,
Don’t apologize. During the whole back and forth faze I had with my EUM, who I thought was the best thing that ever happened since sliced bread, I would say hurtful things after I had been hurt and then apologize. He treated me so awful sometimes and did so many hurtful things and never once apologized for any of his behavior. The last thing I ever said to him was that he was pretty much the most awful person I ever met. I was so tempted to apologize but knew that for my sanity and dignity I couldn’t; the truth is that he IS the most horrible human being that I have ever met. You say that your married EUM has not said any mean things to you, but he has used you. Plain and simple. He has not just “not treated you properly,” he has treated you horribly. That whole “I want you in my life in any way I can have you” is such a standard thing for these idiots to say. It doesn’t mean that he thinks your wonderful or special. I’m sorry, it doesn’t mean that at all. It means that he thinks your standards are so f*cking low that you’ll let his cheating, adulterous, immoral ass stay in your life. He is this awful creature, and you don’t seem to see it. There is NOTHING special about him. He took vows, made promise to be faithful, but he doesn’t have the capacity to be a person of his word. He doesn’t have the guts to stay and be faithful or leave his wife so she can undoubtedly find someone ten times better than this jackass. It wouldn’t be hard. I don’t mean to be harsh, but I hate seeing us women keep doing this to themselves. Please don’t apologize. He doesn’t deserve it, and you deserve more than to lower yourself to apologize for saying something that was probably true and something he probably already knows about his sorry self.
@Butterfly, Aega, Angelina, etc
I haven’t read all posts here yet, but I read some suggesting I not email him. I am now in a mini-crisis
I didn’t email, but I saw him on MSN while reading here a little while ago. I asked how he was, then asked his understanding of how we left things. He said “we agreed to be lifelong friendsâ€, which is a joke because I never said that. I asked him to be serious, and he said – I thought we were trying to “cool it†but then our flesh was weak. So I asked him if he was in agreement that we should “end things†anyway, then he said – “I don’t want to say end things, just to chill and reflect for a while. Then, if through some twist of fate our circumstances change, we can reconsider.†I replied that sounded like FWB, but then he suddenly went offline (I knew his wife was nearby), so I offline messaged him to ask for an email to explain what he just said (he is SO vague sometimes).
That is NOT how I wanted things to go. I have now asked him to contact me via email, and the ball is in his court – he has the pendulum Aega! Any ideas how to get it back? Should I email him and say – don’t bother explaining – we are done?? Bloody hell, this is painful!!!
gee i feel like i am with you and your ending agea, and everyone else, and it just brings back mine, and thats not a bad thing. I am packing for a spur of the moment canoe trip, have done nothing for vacation for me all summer, me and the dog will head out for a few days, like a vision quest.
i sorta feel like i have been in a room with y’alls this past week, and writing and reading and knowing i was being heard and understood has helped me so much, good days ahead everyone, while i am communing with nature I will think of you and other people everywhere who are hurting, and breathe in to take in and release some of that collective pain for us all,
namaste, as we all work to be our best
Vague is bad. Vague is non-committal. Vague keeps us wondering. Vague doesn’t give us permanence. Vague leaves all kinds of room for misinterpretations.
“Someday” “Soon” “Maybe” “Perhaps” “In the future” “If” are all words that I heard over and over and I used to cling to them, but none of them really meant anything.
Meant, you don’t deserve vague. You deserve clarity. You’ll get through this. It is hard seeing the guy we love for what he really is, but it is also the beginning of a stronger you.
Hang in there.
lisa,
Thanks,yes, vague is bad – that’s why I reflexively asked for the email to explain. But to be honest, I don’t think any explanation he gives will be satisfying. Even if he says he’s going to reflect on whether or not to leave his wife for me, I don’t want him as a life partner any more. I am in the middle of composing an email to him that hopefully will put me back in control of this (and tell him it’s not necessary to explain himself). After all, I *was* the one who broke up with him in the first place – I can just reiterate that we’re still through, and that I don’t want him back, even though I may seem to have asked for his input into that decision earlier.
Then hopefully I will have the strength to start NC tomorrow. day 1. I want to feel peaceful again.
@Meant,
I’d say stay mum. Someone said here in an earlier post that these guys cannot commit to being with you but neither can they commit to letting you go (I know I’m taking great liberties with paraphrasing here and my apologies in advance to the person I may be misquoting).
Well, it’s cowardly, like aphrogirl said. Here’s something that made it easier for me not to respond to his last “offering of everlasting friendship” (humm, Apathy may be over after all – I think I just didn’t recognize Bitter when it showed up as Sarcastic…) For days now he’s been hanging out on MSN, changing that silly little line next to his picture, changing his picture, too. In fact the last avatar is of that kid from Southpark being shot in the head. Classy, ay? Yesterday he was on when I logged in and never left till I logged out. Granted, he’s two hours behind but I’m an early riser and a night owl both – he must have been on there for a good 16 hours. Then he sends the pleading email. I respond at what is the middle of the night for him and – surprise, surprise – he never logs in before his last half-assed reply and stays off all day. Not that there was any chance of me coming back with some kind of retraction or asking for more because I am the queen of “I don’t want to talk about it” and he knows it. Just in case, though – not a peep.
I can’t respect someone that can’t look me in the (electronic) eye when I tell him how I feel. Neither should you. So you asked him for an email. So what? It’s not like you siad you had packed your bags and are waiting to move in. If he sends you an email, fine. If he doesn’t, oh well. Don’t let him know that you are sitting here replaying your last conversation with him, looking for nuances, and hoping for an answer that matters. It’s your turn to disappear. Let him wonder what happened. Let him think that you just forgot about the whole thing.
I know what you mean about wanting to feel peaceful again. My relative peace didn’t really get disrupted by all his attempts to get in touch, rather by responding to one. After I sent that last email, I was afraid to open my inbox. I hate that wormy feeling in my stomach.
The pendulum is yours right now. Just keep it there and don’t tell him how much it hurts.
@aphrogirl
My dog and I are officially jealous… Stay safe on your trip and should the Great Spirit say anything meaningful about difficult men, be sure to take notes. I want you to know that the insight you gave me in your earlier post meant more than you can imagine. For all our stabs at strength and/or cavalier attitude that fact is that this has been one of – if not the most – painful stages in our lives. But they all came on the heels of loving someone so very very much and when we talk about all the hurt that person has caused us it’s easy to villify him. That feeling of love, however, doesn’t just disappear just because the object of it proved to be a coward or a liar or just plain lost. What you said to me carried so much compassion; I didn’t have to feel like a fool for having been so wrong. Just wanted to tell you how much I appreciated that. Y’all’s good people, aphrogirl
Meant to Be Happy: Here’s what I think the “real deal” is. Having gone through this myself, but still not over it.
The relationship with this man will not be over until you, and only you, decide it is done. He cannot/will not make the decision, so you have to. Remember, his ambivalence makes you ambivalent(sp), which reinforces his . . . And on and on it goes. You cannot be friends with people who can’t give. It’s that simple.
That said, if you want to stay on a roller coaster, merry-go-round, gravity drop, ride – simultaneously – then stay involved. I am not being sarcastic and I am not being smug. Either way, you hurt. Staying involved is never ending hurt to you. If he was that uncomfortable in his marriage, he would leave. This is 2009. The stigma of divorce is no longer what it was.
Again, so I don’t appear to be a hypocrite or condescending, I am not over “my guy”, and it has been 16 months. However, I no longer cry everyday. Do I wonder if he misses me? Yes. Do I wonder if he ever will get himself out of that relationship? Yes. But, again, it doesn’t matter. Whenever I start to ask these questions, the answer is always the same: He is married. He is married. He is married. Until he changes that MAJOR aspect of his life and gets himself emotionally healthy – it doesn’t matter. If wishing and hope made it so, that would have happened a long time ago. Yes, it sucks.
I have to retrain my brain. When I was in contact with him, it hurt.
Being out of contact with him hurts as well, but it is a different kind of hurt. A hurt that is more healthy for me, in the long run. When I realized that almost three years of my life had passed and nothing had changed, I had to ask myself, “How long am I willing to put myself through this crap?”
Brad K. did a really good job of explaining NC some topics ago, but basically, NC is to protect you. It isn’t about closure – there will be none. If he is truly EUM – he always leaves the door open for him to come back. It keeps him in control. If he is NPD – run away; there is no hope for a healthy relationship.
If you can find yourself happy to be on the fringes of his life, then stay. If you can’t, then go. You do not owe him an explanation, nor do you have to feel guilty. He is living his life. Are you?
Hi all,
I haven’t posted in some time, but I’ve been reading (always reading; that’s just the name of the grad student game) and cheering on the sidelines for those of you who have recently had to face your ex or have had some form of (_crap_) communication from him.
I told my story several posts ago, but the thing about my very weird situation/LDR was that, even on my way out when I was telling (and finally _meaning_) that it was over, he was still leaving the door open (told me to contact him if I’m ever in Russia. As I told a friend, am I really going to call somebody up I would be tempted to ask: “Hey, remember that time you told me human interaction was important to everybody…?” No way; meeting up with people from the past means recalling the good times and our good times have been tainted). In fact, I’m sure I could email him today, right now even, and in a few hours I’d have not only a response, but again be mired in the same bullsh@%/wishy-washy behavior.
I agree with Angelina’s point about how only we can decide whether we’re going to engage with them or not. Really, I think the best way to think about this is to picture a hotel room with a door that connects to the next room. In these situations, to protect the safety of the people inhabiting both rooms, each occupant has a door and the option of keeping that door locked to protect their safety. In the case of the EUM/narc/unfeeling dog with the emotional range of a tree stump–men who have no endings and couldn’t make a decision if their life depended on it– the door is always open…well, maybe it’s better to say unlocked since we all know they’re plenty good at shutting us out whenever they want. And the problem with us is that we don’t think they’re a real danger (or we didn’t really grasp that fact until it was way too late), so we leave/left our doors not only unlocked, but wide open! Now that we’re wiser and stronger (and we are) we need to lock that door, buy and use a deadbolt and even possibly shove some furniture up against it for good measure…because that’s the only way they’re going to stay out.
And I’ve been there, reluctant to do these necessary and seemingly cruel (especially to us as we care too much)..I kept the guy on my gchat list, on skype and on facebook until a month after I ended communication with him. Obviously I did it because I was still hoping against hope that he would come to his senses (to admit this makes me feel somewhat ashamed, but I know you can all relate. It’s hard to let go, but we’re capable of this and they’re not. So, sadly the burden of all of the responsibility falls to us; after all, the emotional investment was all ours to begin with), but he didn’t. But I did. Delete and block.
I wish I could say he never even crosses my mind, but he occasionally does…but I’m so much happier without him; he’s definitely becoming an afterthought. I sleep well, I’ve lost weight (in a good and healthy way), I’ve returned to my old hobbies and created new ones (the LDR and the 11 hour time difference took up a lot of time)…And I never again have to worry about getting an email from him. I so sympathized with Aega’s feeling of terror when faced with an email from him after a soul-baring confession…I hate that feeling, but I really think that feeling says it all; it’s our gut telling us what we knew all along, warning us that it’s just going to confuse and/or make us unhappy.
@Meant
I don’t think I need to add anything to what Angelina has said except for this, and it is tough love:
“The relationship with this man will not be over until you, and only you, decide it is done. He cannot/will not make the decision, so you have to. Remember, his ambivalence makes you ambivalent(sp), which reinforces his . . . And on and on it goes. You cannot be friends with people who can’t give. It’s that simple.
That said, if you want to stay on a roller coaster, merry-go-round, gravity drop, ride – simultaneously – then stay involved.”
You DO know what you have to do. You’re going through the worst part now really. The denial has kicked back in – hey, you’re at the point when I was starting to believe I was wrong and that it would all come around (my mirage wasn’t married). I’d told him never again but remembered the little sadnesses he had and I’d tear myself to bits. If I could go back in time and talk to myself I’d SHAKE myself and I know this is behaviour I have picked up from him and other Narcs but actually in this case I can sort of understand.
You know the answer very well, and that answer is to write him a FINAL EMAIL saying well I think it’s time we agreed that we are work colleagues and that is it. It’s unprofessional to carry on as we are. I value you greatly and I don’t think we should compromise either of our careers.” Nothing emotional. Nothing of how you feel. Block him and remove him from MSN, any personal mails. NO CONTACT.
If you don’t do this, YOU are carrying on the endless spiral down, and down it will always be even if the miracle happens and he leaves his wife. You’d be next in line for it. Angelina is right, they never ever ever ever ever ever close the door and you shouldn’t feel bad about doing it because their flippy flappy behaviour damages you whilst they have a wife who is either oblivious or complicit or suffering right there at hand to care for his every need, clean and iron his clothes, cook him food, provide him with sex comfort and a warm body every night that he is there. His wife might be aware and was crying her heart out as you were snuggling with him – his wife very likely buys that cologne that smells so good on him and is one of the tenuous links that bind you.
In the meanwhile you are eating your heart out and blocking any chance of living. Look again at the subject of this post… remember how strong you felt before and take this action now before you fall again because each time you fall back into the pattern it hurts and damages you more. Plus … do you REALLY really think you are the only one this man has dangling on a string? How many other women, who have not seen this site yet, are in the same boat?
@neveragain – hi there! Sorry that you’ve been through this rubbish too, yet again you have written words that could almost have been the words of my mirage “man”.
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