In part one I followed up a recent post about normalising bad behaviour – where you become so departed from what you feel comfortable with, that the uncomfortable becomes the familiar and the comfortable – by explaining about how we can become isolated in our relationships.
This happens either because our desire to be with someone has us sidelining ourselves and forgetting about family, friends, work, passions, or because there can be direct and indirect messages from the other party which we react to try to please them and end up isolating ourselves. The unfortunate effect of this though is that by being with someone who is uncommitted, when we shelve everything around us and isolate ourselves, they aren’t there to support us either.
The key thing that will keep you in a relationship that is having a negative impact on you is fear.
Fear that everything they say about you is true and that they’re as good as it gets.
Fear that every negative thing you think about yourself is true – a self-fulfilling prophecy because in going out with people who reflect your negative beliefs they’re only going to serve to validate the negative, not contradict it.
Fear of being alone.
Fear that you can’t trust your judgement.
Fear that you’ll be nothing without them.
Fear of having to deal with whatever issues you have instead of focusing on them.
Fear that you’ll never find someone who brings out these extreme feelings in you.
Fear of loss and losing.
As I explained in a post last year about drama seeking triggers, you can end up having a relationship with your fear when you are letting your fears determine your experiences.
When I speak to readers and ask what they’re scared of, a number of the things are already happening, they just choose not to look at it that way, or what they imagine to be so awful hasn’t been reconciled with the reality of things.
For instance, often when we’re scared of being alone, it turns out that even when we’re with them we’re alone because they are not in the relationship with us that we want them to be.
Often when we fear that we’ll be nothing without them, we feel like nothing with them, anyway.
Often we’re afraid of what they’ll say or do if we don’t take their phonecall, or we don’t play by their rules and after a while, you have to wonder, if you want out of the pain, isn’t it time to ask yourself what’s the worst that can happen?
If the worst that can happen is that you discover that he really is as awful as you think he is and that he’s not capable of giving you what you want, this is actually freeing. Flogging a dead horse and sticking to them like glue isn’t going to change them.
If you’re not happy now being treated in this manner or being in a poor relationship, what makes you think that you can stick it out for the rest of your days?
If the worst that can happen is that he says things that whilst cruel, you know them to be untrue, this is freeing because not only do you recognise that this person has a distorted perception of you that they’re not prepared to shift from because it doesn’t suit their agenda, but that they’re not the type of person that you should be around anyway.
If you have to convince someone of your worthiness, doesn’t that say a lot about their lack of judgement and care? You shouldn’t have to sell the concept of being with you.
The likelihood is that whatever you fear, in the overall scheme of things, it’s a fraction of what will happen in the reality. Many of us have often thought we’d never recover from breaking up with some guy, but we do.
What’s the worst that can happen? Well you won’t know unless you actually try because staying and expecting a different result from the same dynamic is relationship insanity.
If you truly want to be happy and you’re finding yourself invariably feeling rather miserable trying to extract a decent relationship out of someone who is resisting, you’re going to need to feel the short term pain to feel the medium to long term gain.
We’re afraid of feeling the pain and we’re also afraid of confronting our fears and dealing with them so we can free ourselves up to enjoy our lives.
We spend far too much time trusting in the wrong things than we do in the right.
Unless you learn to trust your gut, instincts, and judgement and act upon them, you will flounder in fear with a guy who detracts from you.
Trust is about having faith in how others (or yourself) will act.
If you don’t trust yourself, you don’t have faith in you.
As long as you ride with fear, you’re basically saying “I’d rather trust in the possibility of something bad happening rather than have faith in myself that I could opt out of a poor situation and make a better life and experience for myself based on positive choices”
This is because operating out of fear is about making negative choices born out of negative beliefs and feelings.
Feeling isolated in relationships breaks your spirit but unfortunately the only way to break the isolation is to start having faith in you.
Even a little faith gives you strength which allows you to act on your judgement which when you get past the pain and start to enjoy the freedom from this negativity, allows you to have confidence in yourself and your judgement.
If I had a choice between having faith in myself and taking a risk on me versus trusting someone who has demonstrated their lack of commitment to me, has been cruel, and whose actions contradict their words, I’d opt for me.
Trust me, I’ve been there before, letting my fears rule me. One day I woke up and realised that this could be it for me and that was pretty damn scary.
I realised that placing my faith in other people to act in my best interests was pretty crazy when I couldn’t even place enough faith in myself to act in my own best interests.
If you’re isolated, either because you internalised what they’ve said and done and isolated yourself as a reaction to it, or as a result of the control that they’ve exerted upon your life, or a combination of both, it doesn’t feel very good because isolation is bloody horrible.
If the ‘worst’ that can happen by opting out of your fear and taking a risk on you, is that you stop being isolated in a poor relationship with him because you’ve stepped out of the craziness into reality and felt the fear and pushed through it, maybe it’s time you braved the unknown because surely, what you know doesn’t feel that good, isn’t making you happy, and you’re not getting the relationship you want.
If what you know, the familiar, yields misery, isn’t it safe to say that opting for a different path may be where your happiness lies?
You’re waiting for their behaviour to change, for them to validate you, for them to admit their errors and poor judgements but you could be in for a very long wait. All this waiting is putting you in limbo and isolation and the fact of the matter is that you don’t need him to confirm or unconfirm what you already know – you can’t force someone too see something that they don’t want to see.
You also get to avoid the reality of your relationship and issues you may have because the isolation feeds the illusion. If you start to let in reality, you may have to acknowledge and accept some very uncomfortable things.
Back for the final part 3 where I talk about removing the power that you give them and perceive them to have.
Get ahead on understanding waste of space men and relationships with my ebook, Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. Find out more and download. If you need personal advice or analysis of your relationship/situation, check out my consultation service.
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@Meant I know she did but you said it was new MO … it’s familiar to those of us who have had the Narc running hot treatment though – you WILL want me … you WILL want me … ok that didn’t work … that didn’t … try this then oh look that got your attention right tell me how AWESOME I am. What’s that? You care? -> EXIT
Call me cynical if you wish but tbh knowing these machinations really helps me to not care. I do still think about it all, but it gets fainter and fainter. I know from experience that if I was exposed to him again it would come back full force no matter how much I have come along: my Achilles Heel will be the mirage. However, I am on guard against any other mirages and I see the illusion clearly now.
My worry is how not to start applying it where it doesn’t count, like not knowing when I will see this guy and wondering if it’s a red flag but there is more danger in overanalysis than anything else. I don’t feel anxious and while it makes me smile to hear back from him it isn’t dizzying highs and terrifying lows, so … we’ll see. If he doesn’t get on the action someone else might tho
LOL
@Starcollector Hmmm this sounds familiar, too familiar for comfort to my mirage. I morphed to accept his cross dressing cos tbh that’s not so big a deal but I did wonder what he got up to towards the end of hot and into the flippy flappy. I agree with Meant, be glad you are no longer with someone who can’t respect you, others or himself and is clearly very troubled by the aspects of his identity and sexuality that he is in denial of. Get your stuff then get the hell out of touch, you are wise to use a payphone beacause although I know he won’t ever call me and probably by now is too afraid of rejection to text me, he had these numbers. Urgh.
ouch sorry (edit function please NML!!!!!!) HE used a payphone …
Whenever I see someone in a bad relationship with a person who doesn’t treat them well, it’s usually because the person never treated themselves well either. They were always beating themselves up or had low self-esteem issues. They need to love themselves before anyone else can.
Here’s something very silly. In the online game I sometimes play we had a time with everyone changing gender (and appearance to match) so I have spent the last hour acting like a total arsehole. All the guys said afterwards how they’d felt quite used by the women … and you can imagine ladies how rude we all were. It was cathartic for me and hopefully made these guys think.
Meant to be Happy -Thank you
It does get easier with time and the empowering felling get stronger too.So to all of you that are doing NC,hang in there girls.
Today is day 40 of no contact it is good being back on the wagon after 5 months of no contact…
His birthday is coming up soon and a while ago I purchased a b’day card for him but now I have no desire to send it. It is completely inappropriate and only sends the message I’m still invested in you, so this morning for the first time in a long time I thought I just can’t be bothered anymore with him so I won’t bother with his birthday and continue on.. I guess now my only regret is I wasted time a lot of time on offering my friendship to someone who clearly wasn’t interested and told me so through his actions which in no way matched his words…
I agree with those who say it gets easier with time and usually when you fall of the no contact wagon it is easier to get back on and go longer and longer with contacting him..
I like that he is beginning to fade away in mind because life is so much bigger than him.. so good luck to all on the no contact journey..
MNL writes above
” our desire to be with someone has us sidelining ourselves and forgetting about family, friends, work, passions,”
so,I just got back from my four day canoe camping expedition, with the dog, a guitar and a copy of the only positive thinking pop psych book I have ever read..” Excuses Begone”, a book about breaking negative, self defeating habitual thoughts..like ummm, for example, that an AC will come around if you just keep waiting, and working, and dreaming about them coming around…NOT
NC is breaking a habit, an addiction, and your goal is to remember all you dreams and passions you had before you gave them up for the false passion of the EUM. The EUM cannot or will not do the work needed to manifest dreams and passions. He is a clown. It’s bad enough that we buy into this lopsided arrangement with a clown, but the crime of my isolation was to make the AC a passion at the expense of my other passions.
Well, like the book says, excuses begone. It’s so clear. I let myself get sidetracked from my goals, in an insidious way, by the dishonest and lazy behavior of someone I considered a very close friend. This was so dispiriting, that I lost my spirit, I knew it, and I stayed away from others, maybe to avoid spreading the negativity.
But all that is in the past.
So, as agea asked me to listen for the rgeat spirit out there in the wilds… here is what he great spirit told me..it’s a bit vague-ish, the old zen stuff. The past is gone, we have only the present moment to connect with all that is good inside of us. And if we are going to live outside of the moment, as we humans are wont to do..well for goodness sake, lets do it by planning things that are good for us, life affirming and in support of our very own heartfelt dreams, goals and passions – things that let us hear our own great spirit that is within is.
And as a caveat to anyone here…be careful that any adult you choose to bring into your life has their own great spirit, that their spirit is good and powerful and loving… and thus they will know how to love and respect you in return. Aega, I about your marriage, and its not really on topic but..I do believe that strong love can transcend any issue, thats a time will tell sorta thing. Good luck to you and everyone reading this far. Anyone thinking of NC, trust me, NC is the beginning of a better path.
WB aphrogirl, so glad to see that your batteries have been recharged
***
I had karmic payback for even playing the asshole maybe, even in fun. I’ll spare details cos they won’t apply to anyone here but I had an experience which almost put me in direct contact with someone who my mirage used to make me jealous about. I realised that there was the potential to have direct contact with him and tbh my admiration for the ladies who deal with their ex asshole has increased fivefold because I was literally sick to my stomach and this was only on the internet where he is blocked – it was the very IDEA of being in contact with him.
Needless to say this turned into the usual “does he still care/miss me/was he sad?” crap and I realised ever more that this has nothing to do with him and the reality of him at all. Then I went to do something else but there’s a shadow there now. I know work will chase that away as I put all my attention on it but yeah – NC is for life!
It’s almost like I broke it, but I didn’t so there has to be something in the “pain addiction” thing because the thought was not fully formed but the impulse was still tugging.
Food for thought, for me.
INdirect contact, sorry
Hi ladies. I’m in a fleabag hotel with a kingsize bed, which makes me extra worried about the potential size of the aforementioned fleas. If I break off midsentence – I’m probably wrestling one for my life…
Welcome back aphrogirl!! I just KNEW the Great Spirit would come through (and not even ask you to drink any Koolaid in the process…
Seriously, though, I reread this sentence a few times, “your goal is to remember all you dreams and passions you had before you gave them up for the false passion of the EUM.” You’re right: we let them replace the real stuff for a while, didn’t we? The marriage thoughts – I’m taking those one baby step at a time. It’s my turn to commune with nature in the upcoming two weeks and hopefully I’ll gain some insight as you did.
@Butterfly – I’d say a platoon leader – or a sargeant – trumps a rock star any day (I can’t say anything bad about the artist type since I doodle for a portion of my living myself, but I also wouldn’t date one again). Your play-by-play of the Narc “hot treatment” was so on the money it’s scary. I love your smartass wit and so I was in stitches, too, but it does embarrass me when I think of all the times I fell for this routine of his. It’s almost cathartic though to watch him try to put me through all the hoops again but now reading it the way I should. I feel almost strangely detached.
@Anusha – yay!!!!! 4 months is a huge chunk of time and willpower. Good on you girl!
@Meant and Butterfly – you know my guy had a few strange leanings, too. Not cross-dressing (not that I knew of, anyway), but there were a couple of times when things got a little too much for me, and I am a pretty open person. And yes, I do I do I do want to delete him from my MSN, but can’t yet. I always stay showing off-line so he doesn’t get to see me, so I don’t know why I’m keeping him on there. I honestly have had zero temptation so far to reconnect with him.
Home tomorrow, and a little curious what he will try to do, if anything. Because of the former work connection we have lots of overlapping acquiantances and I’m sure he already knows I’m flying in tomorrow. None of these people have a clue as to what happened between him and me; they only knew us as two very close friends. So I can’t ask them to not say anything. I know that seeing him would be incredibly hard and all my current nonchalance would evaporate on the spot.
@Aega I really empathise but if you just DO it then it’s done. Seriously, from experience. Maybe plan yourself a little celebration – my stock in trade was always a long pampering bath and then candles and incense and a book. Pity I only have a shower now
Yeah rock guys suck. This didn’t stop me simply aching with lust at some guy on the Metro yesterday – the works, long shiny hair, tanned, toned, not too many piercings or tattoos … just right. I thought with my brain after a millisecond though and my brain said “yeah, idiot, look where it gets you!”.
@Anusha – good for you sweetheart x
hi again everyone, I am gonna share one more insight, if you are like me and you find yourself ruminating, playing over the most hurtful things said or done, beating yoursefl up in various ways over the whole EUM experience…well, that is a neccessary step or stage
But, here was another major insight, posed as some sort of theosophical questions…those thoughts that are in our heads, the injustice of it all, our pain and sadness, our incredulousness at how we fooled ourselves, or were fooled by them…all those thoughts ad nauseum..how do they serve our higher purpose of feeding our passions and our dreams ? how do those thoughts serve our ability to serve the good inside of us and take it outside of us, to make the world a better place. This finding the good in me and taking it out to the world is the antithesis of isolation to me.
i suspect this about all the thoughts the EUm brought to my head…. while its so important to acknowledge them, its also so important to see that staying with those same thoughts of anger and pain is an obstacle for getting back on track to serving the higher good that is in me, and by that I mean my passions and goals
so, you know my latest technique when all those thoughts arrive is to challenge them with a simple question ” how do these thoughts serve my higher purpose” and then the answer comes so quick, they do not, let them go.
just sharing, in case it helps anyone else. have a good day
@Tulipa – “life is so much bigger than him†– you said a lot right here. I am as guilty as anyone here of thinking and thinking about my ex, trying to figure out my part in things and his part in how it all went. But the truth is, there is so much more out there that deserves our time, attention and energy. The chances of him morphing into our ideal partner is so remote, that it really does beg the question “why waste even *more* energy on him?†While my ex and I were in the most intense part of our “interaction†(refusing to say relationship), I really did go into “autopilot†at work, and I’m surprised my co-workers didn’t confront me with my forgetfulness and absent-mindedness. He was consuming so much of my energy, I had little left to devote to being an effective human being. Now that we are broken up and in NC, I plan to allow myself maybe 10 or 15 minutes each day to think about him, as I know I still have a need to process some of what happened, if only to prevent further unhealthy relationships. And of course I will allow myself time to read and post here on Baggage Reclaim, so I can keep my goal in mind, feel supported, and ease that isolating feeling. But that’s it – time to think about all other aspects of life now that I have spent the last year and a half obsessed with *him*.
@aphrogirl – “remember all your dreams and passions you had before you gave them up for the false passion of the EUM.†– I also appreciate this thought, and in fact it puts into words a feeling I’ve had the last few days. I have been a professional student for a good chunk of my life, and September always feels like the beginning of a new year for me. So, as this September draws near, I have been reflecting on what’s really important to me, how I would like my life to look, where I would like to be spending my time and energy. I am also trying to plan time to indulge in my passions, because they do bring such joy to life, and make me feel like a more rounded, self-expressive person. I have also been thinking about how I can help other people even more – it’s a natural part of my job, but I want to take an even “bigger-picture†approach. I want to get away from being self-absorbed, and spending all this brain power, feelings and time on someone who is *not* going to do the same for me, and so is not a good investment time and emotion-wise. Like you suggest, I want to connect with all that is good inside me. Your “higher purpose†question *was* helpful – thank you
@Aega – wow, look out for those fleas!!! Bedbugs are even worse, so look out for kingsizebedbugs! I wish you all the best as you take those baby steps one at a time towards deciding about your marriage. Will your husband be there with you on the mountain? I’m glad you are staying “appear offline†with your ex when you are on MSN, and not IMing him. You are strong to avoid the temptation to contact him when you see him there!
From an earlier post you said “remember saying how much lighter you felt once in NC? It really does feel like a weight lifting off your shoulders, a little bit more every day. One doesn’t have to be a control freak, I suppose, to get satisfaction from regaining some measure of control over your own life.†– did you remember this from when I broke up with my ex MM back on July 9th? If so, you have an amazing memory! And yes, NC does help me to feel lighter – less crap to carry around on a daily basis. It’s much nicer to wake up in the morning feeling empowered because I am deciding *not* to communicate with him, instead of feeling anxious wondering if he will email/call/IM, or even worse, worrying that his wife or someone else will find out about the whole sordid situation.
Aega, I hope you do not have to see your ex MM when you go home. If you do, please read the advice people gave to me before I had to see my ex in person – it was realllly helpful!
@Butterfly – yes, you do have a gift for “interpreting†the words and actions of EUM’s everywhere!
So anyway, I am feeling very motivated this morning, and I plan to do some organizing and get my life partially back in order before I go back to work Monday (I was off this week, but not feeling motivated to organize earlier). I am going to take my own baby steps to resuming my life as it was *before* the EUM threw a wrench into things, only now I am MUCH more knowledgeable thanks to NML and all of you!
Love to all… Meant xo
Thank you Butterfly and Aega
Aega- I think would be good for you to delete your ex from MSN.I know is hard,I just had the courage to delete mine 6 months after the break up(I had him blocked before that).But keeping him there is like holding on to him even though you dont talk to him.Is like a emotional bond like having pictures of him around and remember that on NC you suposed to break every bond with him.And I dont know about you,but when I saw my ex online it realy messed up with my head and fellings.It made me so nervous and I would keep thinking why he was online,who he was talking to,if that had anything to do with me,what his quote means and all kind of things like that.So clearly wasnt doing me any good what convinced me that was time to delete him.
tulipa-Congratulations for the 40 days NC and good to know you are back on the wagon
I think you shouldnt send him the birthday card,it will give him the idea that you still care.That was one of my concerns when I was deciding if I should text my ex on his birthday too.I realy didnt want him to think I was still invested so I decided to not send anything.Realy just think about it,when you send somebody a happy birthday wish,specialy somebody you havent talked for a while it just means you were thinking about that person.And that you care enough to remember that day was his birthday and to do something about it(like send the birthday card).So yes it does give the message that you care and to a EUM it probably will be the ego boost that they like so much.
It’s my mirage’s birthday soon. I am going to mark it in the following way:
Think this is the best plan
@Butterfly
I think that’s a wonderful way to mark your mirage’s birthday!
Oh, and btw, I *finally* responded to your last email…
I just meet with my friend and we talked about a guy that used to be interested on me.He just got married.He was such a nice guy and asked me to date him a few times but I refused.I had just started the relationship with my ex by then and chosed him over this guy.Well now I kind of regret what I have done. I traded a very nice guy(and probably a emotionaly avaliable one) that could have been the bf and gave me the relationship I wanted for a EUM that brought me years of pain.That realy made me think.
Oh my goodness, I just got a work-related email from my ex, and at the end of it, he told me he was so busy working today that he forgot to go to his massage appointment, but it’s OK as his therapist usually forgives him if he takes her to the pub across the street for a beer and a sandwich. WTF is that? Trying to make me jealous? I know I should have ignored it in my return email, but I said “enjoy your beer with your therapist”, after I was done the work-related stuff. And yes, I am ashamed to admit I *was* a little jealous!
So now I’m hesitant to even open work related email. Eeeesh!!!
I agree completely with this post. The things that force people into destructive and non-productive relationships amaze me. I think a lot of people reveal all of the weak spots in their armor as soon as they think they’ve found someone special. And ususally those weak spots – self esteem issues, loneliness, bad break-up issues, whatever – are the first target for scumbags and losers. Just like in the military – they break a person down and then rebuild them in the image they want them to be – in a relationship, this is far too often a dependent and vulnerable individual.
-Garland
.-= Garland´s last blog ..The Rattle of THE SNAKE… PART 1 =-.
meant to be happy,
That just sucks…. I’m sorry he flaunted hanging out with another woman.
That isn’t love.
I don’t know about you, but at some point, you really do start seeing these guys for what they really are, and it feels bad for awhile.
Take care,
Lisa
this is my first time posting here, although I read a lot and have gained so much from this site. just called my assclown after several days NC. he was cruel, to say the least. why did I do it? drunk, reminiscing, etc. really wondering what is going on with me to stoop this low.
aphrogirl
I think I’m going to try that myself – cause it’s seems that everyday I’m am confronted with painful memories of my ex. Hopefully by challenging those memories and the desire to constantly beat myself up will finally stop, or at least become less frequent. thanks
@Meant
Kneejerk reaction passes with time. Next time, unless an answer is required don’t answer at all. If an answer is required make it as taciturn as is polite and professional.
That hook and barb gave him a thrill. Fuck that. You deserve better. Either that or tell him that your massage therapist is VERY strict with you, and you wouldn’t dream of disobeying him.
You know why I am saying this, specifically in the case of you and this guy, as that WOULD hit him where it hurts even if it is bullshit.
Love and strength x
meant,
oh please, any professional worth their weight does not address missed appointments with a beer and a sandwich…not only is he being a twit, of course, making sure you know he is ” desirable” by other women, since you have told him he is not good enough for you…but he’s also being a twit with the ” therpist”, by not respecting her professional time, moreover the ” therapist” is sure not looking out for herself by being bought out by a beer, sandwich and his company
of course, he would do better with a real therapist, not a massage therapist ! but there you have an AC, real therapy is work, getting a massage is eating candy
fact is, in trying to let you see his is desirable he is giving you more info to stay NC, a beer and a sandwich ..meaning attention, from a women who does not seem to have good boundaries, is what he considers meaningful enough to show off, and….. that is why you are in NC, you want more than a beer and sandwich and your boundaries are getting stronger
in the coming months just remember are recovering from the habits of addiction based on wanting for more, waiting for the substance, waiting on someone who cannot deliver. Expect jealousy and hurt and confusion and lots more, but challenge every though every time with the truth. Just hold the truth in your head, you have had the most the man can offer, and it is not enough.
Now all your work is in retraining the erroneous thinking that got you to think he could offer more. Get away from the habits by doing things you love, by yourself and with people who are healthy enough to give without wanting anything from you. All my friends know I am coming out of something difficult, few know the story, but most are being patient with me while I get through this.
oops, if there are any massage therapists out there, I deserve one of those pounding massages for how I wrote the above.
I am sorry, what I wrote was not quite fair… I did not mean to be insulting by saying you are not real therapists, of course you are
What I meant is that any guy who is running around cheating on his wife really should be considering therapy for his behavior, not massage for his body.
I do know that massage is great for relieving the physical stress that our behavior can give our bodies…but like so many holistic things, its best to get to the root of the stress, and not just address the surface issue.
sorrry, i’ve strayed off topic with this one
@lisa, Butterfly and aphrogirl
Thanks for your take on the “therapist†flaunt. It was *not* a loving thing to do, and yes lisa, it’s hard seeing him for who he really is. Butterfly – I like your idea, but my massage therapist is female and I think he knows that, lol. I didn’t think of it as not respecting *her* time, but yes, you are right aphrogirl, by not remembering his appointment he really was disrespecting her, wasn’t he? I hope she still charges him the missed appointment fee, but it sounds like she won’t. Oh, but she gets something much better than money. She gets a nice glass of Guinness, a yummy sandwich and to listen to him talk about himself for half an hour or so. What a lucky woman! NOT! Getting back to the topic of this post, perhaps he is trying to evoke fear from me – fear that I will lose him for good if I stay NC, since obviously he has other women on the horizon to stroke his ego? But like NML said, “the worst that can happen†*is* happening – I am seeing him for who he really is, as lisa suggested. He is still that selfish, disrespectful, self-absorbed user with no empathy whatsoever towards me. He is not capable of giving me what I need.
OK, no more kneejerk reactions for me. I am going to think and pause before replying to any more of his emails, which should drop off in frequency now anyway, since we are nearing the end of the post-conference follow-up stuff and we don’t have to plan the next one for quite some time.
This little game he just played has got me feeling a little anxious, but I’m not gonna let it get to me anymore. He IS a twit. I am going to have an amazing weekend, and I hope all of you do, too
I do want a bf but I dont like how people date here.I mean here when you go to a club for example the guy come to you already kissing you or the maximun they ask is your name before trying it.I dont fell much comfortable kissing a guy that I just meet or that I just know the name.I would prefer to talk first,get to know him and then kissing(if I decide that I want it) instead of going straight to the kiss.I also used to think that guys at clubs arent interested in having a relationship and just want some “fun” for the night.But my best friend meet her fiance at a club and they are together for more than 5 years now so I guess that isnt true.Anyway Im just wondering how I will find another guy if I dont like how dating is done here.
I kissed this guy on the cheek the other day, which was sort of daring. He seemed quite happy about it. I think the answer is:
Don’t go to clubs looking for love!!!
Thought about taking up some nightschool classes maybe? Something you always wanted to learn?
Anusha, what place are you referring to, a club or a country/state or what?
@aphrogirl “Just hold the truth in your head, you have had the most the man can offer, and it is not enough. ” Yep. Perfect.
I know that the reason I can’t seem to make myself delete him from MSN is that some part of me, one I am ashamed to acknowledge, still believes that this distance between us is temporary. We have said on this site over and over again that NC is *not* about showing him how much he needs you and then seeing the error of his ways, but some buried, still-in-love, lizard part of my brain is hoping for just that. I know it is or I wouldn’t have such a hard time letting go. This morning, after seeing him online with a new message next to his avatar, I actually read it to myself aloud and followed it up with a “translationâ€: “nothing newâ€, the message read. That’s right – there is nothing new: he is still married and planning to stay that way, and anything he throws my way are crumbs, intended to reel me back in so that he can go back to having his comfortable life on the one hand and the thrills he shares with me on the other. His emails and text messages continue daily, but why shouldn’t they? It’s a small time and effort investment on his part compared to the potential return if I bite the bait. 10 seconds here and there, and if it hits home he gets awesome sex and someone that adores his ass. He’s playing the nickel table for the hundred dollar table payoff.
@Butterfly, I don’t know why I can’t do this. I’m at my house now, and I walked into the bathroom this morning and thought about what you said as I was looking at the bathtub, with all my candles and scrubs and other “pampering aids†still there. It’s almost like I’m afraid that if I delete him from MSN the feeling of loss will be so huge that nothing else I do will compensate for it. Maybe it is feeding my ego that he is making contact attempts every day? It shouldn’t, because when you think about it, it is almost insulting. He is spending a few moments here and there with the goal of melting my resolve so that I go back to being his little trophy.
@Meant, the therapist bit just goes to show how afraid he is that he is losing his grip on you. It’s a dangerous tactic from our point of view, because it is so easy to interpret as the guy’s fear of losing us and therefore a sign of love. But it’s possessiveness. I have to remind myself of that every day when I get my MM’s little missives.
Yes, I was thinking back to what you said back when you started NC. I was about to start mine and was hoping that the same feeling of lightness would come to me as well. It did, too. It’s not a complete freedom yet since it is still punctuated by interludes of terrible pain and missing him, but it is there and it helps regain perspective each time I come perilously close to losing it.
can’tbelievemyself,
Some of us done that as well, dont be too hard on yourself!!! Please read NML book, it is great!
I feel so low today as well, I was with a guy about two years…HE wasnt my boyfriend but a friend with benefits…HE told me in the beginning that he was in love with me and silly me, believed him! HE was using me for all these two years and when I confronted him, that I dont want to have a part time lover, but a full time boyfriend, who can love me and be with me, he just texted me 5 (!!!) min later saying, that he cant give me what I want…
HE didnt think long, 5 min it was enough for him to make up his mind, and me wondering for two years (!!!) My sister says at least I know where I am standing, but still it’s so upsetting
Unhappy soul,
That is sad. I’m sorry to hear what you have to go through. Your sister is probably right…. it is good to know where you stand, but I still can remember the feeling of pouring my heart out to the guy who said he loved me, and then him just writing a short response with little effort.
In this day and age, texting and e-mailing are just some people’s lazy way of communicating, and for others of us, it is a great way to find support like at this web-site.
So, he can’t give you what you want. Are you willing to take less than what you want and need? NO! Or you wouldn’t have asked him for it.
Sometimes when I read about what others here are going through, I get so angry. I know it has to do with ourselves, too, and what we attract to ourselves, but how can there be so many non-feeling, seemingly insensitive men in this world? It still stuns me to think about it.
I’m glad that you have NML’s book. The book, and the no contact rule, and these daily weekly blogs, and a couple of the other people who don’t post so often anymore were really what helped me get out of a bad relationship for good and just start working on myself. It really does get better after awhile!
@cantbelievemyself – yes, it’s true, at times we all wonder what our AC’s are thinking while we are in NC, but I haven’t seen one person on here who has been happy with any answers they may have received from their exes by reaching out to them. So now you know it hurts to re-contact, and you can stay stronger next time.
@Anusha – personally, I meet a lot of men through my work. I wouldn’t want to be in a relationship with someone in my own office, but maybe people I have to interact with in the normal course of work. Also, friends can be a good source of knowing where the decent, available men are. And I agree with Butterfly – night school classes – maybe a fun topic where you have to interact with classmates? A cooking course? photography? Another language? Whatever your interests are.
@Aega – you are so honest about your “buried, lizard-hopesâ€! I appreciate that about you. At least you are taking Butterfly’s cue and coming up with some meaningful interpretations for his MSN sayings. Let him stay at the nickel table and reap what he sows. Keep the hundred dollar prize from him!! Aega, I liked your idea that maybe my ex fears losing his grip on me, thus his need to talk about the beer/sandwich/therapist gig. He did mention being jealous of the time I spent talking with another guy at the conference (the divorced guy who told me he’d had a lot of women asking to be FWB with him, but who is in a new relationship, so not available for me for a partner but I like him as a friend). Your theory helped me to come up with a possible reason why my ex is being annoying in a work-related way: I am trying to collect powerpoint slides (pdf’s anyway) of all the presentations at the conference we just attended to put on a website for the attendees. He is the only one who hasn’t gotten his to me yet. In yesterday’s email, he apologized for this, saying he is “swampedâ€, and that he will do this for me as soon as he gets a chance. It would take all of 5 minutes! I wonder now if he is just making me wait for it so he still has something I need to “remind†him about. If so, what a swine!
@Unhappy soul – wow, yeah, that would be tough to get that 5-minute answer after 2 years of wondering. Like Lisa, I have also experienced something similar (mine said – all I have to offer you is my love) and it hurt like hell because it really meant he didn’t love me enough to do whatever it took to be with me as a life partner. I send you hugs and empathy.
@Meant — “I just got a work-related email from my ex, and at the end of it, he told me he was so busy working today that he forgot to go to his massage appointment, but it’s OK as his therapist usually forgives him if he takes her to the pub across the street for a beer and a sandwich. WTF is that? Trying to make me jealous?”
YES, he’s trying to evoke a response from you in a juvenile way!! Insecure men do this. There was absolutely NO reason he had to share this information with you and I suspect its absolute BS!! He’s trying to get his hooks back into you or gauge your level of investment in him in such a transparent way. Next time no response is the best course of action that way he has no idea of what you’re thinking. As you come out of your anesthesia, you will be able to slowly watch his true colors come to the surface and then you’ll have more of these WOW, WTF moments and truly wonder what you ever saw in him!! When you finally see him off the fantasy pedestal and for who and what he truly is, life will be grand!!
Butterfly- I used to think like that too but after my friend meet her fiance in a club like I said before I changed my mind.I know a lot of guys there arent interested in anything serious but now Im convinced that does go to ALL of them.
SomethingSomethingDarkSide- I mean my country (Im outside USA and Europe).I know that in some countries like USA people go on dates first to get to know each other and the kiss wont happen until the end of the night or sometimes even after a few dates.Here on my country not,like I said is pretty much going straight to the kiss without much talking first (at least in clubs).I would fell more comfortable and like better how it is in USA.
Meant to be Happy- I liked your and Butterfly idea to try meeting nice guys in night courses.I realy like learning new languages so I think that could be a place where I could try it.I prefer meeting them on places like school,work,courses and so on too than in clubs.I mentioned clubs before because there is where I notice most guys aproaching me but I think a lot of them arent interested in a relationship.Plus at work for example there is more chance of talking and geting to know each other before something happens.
Im confused actualy,I know I shouldnt be worried about finding somebody else right now but I fell like a urge for that.But I know that I suposed to be concetrating on having a more positive relationship with me instead and maybe would be better to not look for a relationship until I fix my issues.I have been reading about it and on the book Im reading says that you need to have a strong relationship with yourself first before geting in a relationship,otherwise you can end up pushed to unhealthy relationships again.So Im divided between what I want and what is best for me right now.
@Serena,
yes, thank you, I will add insecure to my list of descriptors of him. He has certainly displayed insecure behaviours in the past. Whenever I have a success at work, he doesn’t congratulate me, ever, but instead he just tells me about something important *he* is working on. Yes, the anesthesia is starting to wear off and he is coming down from that fantasy pedestal slowly but surely…
Meant…and Lisa,
Thank you very much for your support…I dont know, it’s hurts like hell, I feel so worthless and used…it will take time to have my self-esteem back:-( How can we trust again after all these cr@p???
@Meant
This I’m-too-swamped-to-send-you-the-info bit is kind of pathetic: you have not been reaching out to him on a personal level so he is creating a situation that forces you to through work, even though it in no way speaks to his attractiveness or desirability. It also shows how skewed his idea of interaction is; if I wanted to make a good impression on someone I would make sure to be the first to provide the requested materials and outdo everyone else in being helpful. Serena is right, too, that the therapist story is probably BS. When guys act like this it always takes me back to junior high… Remember how the boys that liked you were sometimes the meanest to you? They didn’t know how else to show interest or were afraid that their friends would tease them if they did. Lucky for us, most of them grew up. Unlucky for us, some of us have spent the last couple of years on those that never did.
Yes, the lizard brain has been missing my sixth-grader today. I woke up in my house this morning after a very realistic and sad dream about him and somehow being surrounded by all the things that had comprised my everyday life when my thoughts were all full of him are making me see him in everything. Fortunately I am still not the least bit tempted to make any kind of contact with him, but the sense of permanence this ending has is killing me. I’ve been remembering the good things, which in turn ratcheted the sadness up even more. I logged in again to keep myself from floating back under Serena’s anesthesia (that term is such a bull’s-eye, isn’t it?) and I have to say it’s working. I was just reading Lisa’s comments to Unhappy and remembered how quickly the response to my final outpouring had come. And I remembered a day a couple of months ago when I was having a mini crisis about being homesick and overwhelmed with my new job, and he was on the phone with me saying all the right things to me until it was dinnertime. I had been crying, which I never do in front of people and in fact he said that he was so happy that I had opened up like this to him for the first time. He was driving home from work at the time, and suddenly he went from encouraging me to vent to telling me how I needed to take a hot bath or take my dog for a walk to feel better. He started talking me through the steps (“you need to hang up the phone, go home, run a bath…â€) the way an EMT would if you were hyperventilating, and I realized that he had got to his house and I was being managed so that he could hang up and go inside. He actually had the nerve to say that I meant more to him that I could ever know and that he wished that he could tell me that he was always going to be there for me, but the reality was that he could not because of the “limitations†of his life. I went from distraught to disgusted in a New York second and got off the phone as soon as I could. You know, I can think of countless times when I put routine (or food) on hold because one of my friends needed to talk. I was always so honored that another person would choose me as a source of comfort. I don’t ever remember wondering whether the soufflé dinner would turn out OK while someone was pouring out their heart to me.
@Anusha – I’m with Meant and Butterfly: meeting a man in a setting where he is looking to learn a new skill or expand his education increases the chances of his being someone of quality. I think that opening yourself up to the idea that there are interesting people all around you on a daily basis works, too. I happen to be one of those people that will talk to anyone just because we both happen be looking at the same painting in a gallery or deciding between yellow and red peppers in the produce section and have made many friends that way over the years, men and women both. Whether or not this comes naturally to you, I’ll bet you would be amazed if you tried it how open people are to social interaction and how easily you fall into fascinating conversations and meet people you can’t wait to learn more about. Case in point: last night there was a gorgeous sunset here, and I sat there in my car gaping at it for a while before pulling up to a Starbucks drive-through. When I handed over my credit card I automatically asked the guy at the window whether he’d caught the sunset. He hadn’t , so of course I proceeded to describe it in Technicolor detail for him. Fast forward 10 minutes (there was no one in line behind me) and we knew each other’s political leanings, I had the addresses of the two newest vegetarian restaurants in the city, discovered that neither of us had any siblings and suffered from motion sickness as kids, and that both our parents had disapproved of our college majors. Now, I don’t have a thing for guys 15 years younger than me nor room for romantic interest anywhere in my life right now so that was it – but it didn’t have to be. There are interesting, nice people all around and how far you take these off the wall conversations is entirely up to you.
.-= Aega´s last blog ..Threadless Tshirt Giveaway at jaypeeonline.net =-.
Aega-”There are interesting, nice people all around and how far you take these off the wall conversations is entirely up to you.”
Good point,I might try paying more atention on that and make conversation with people.Who knows even if I dont find a bf like that I can end up making a nice friend.
I have now finally heard the song by Daughtry that Meant mentioned and it made me cry. It’s different though – it wasn’t about him, it was about my wasted time.
Not for long though, and it was a few tears, not a patch on how I used to feel, how I used to cry, how I’d hide in the shower with my face against the tiles and just sob out raw grief and confusion asking that question “Why?”.
Knowing why helps, Unhappy Soul (I look forward to seeing your name changing as your soul recovers) and cantbelieve (hey me neither, and I look forward to your name changing too! I am quite sure right now neither of you think it will ever feel different but it will and when it does the burden or raw emotion which is guiding you right now will feel wrong and you’ll most likely call yourself something new). Knowing why is a start point, No Contact is the logical step and the practical tool and then the rest of it is really just enjoying life without needing others to approve you:you approve yourself.
Oh I know that sounds glib, it isn’t meant to sound it, just it’s very hard to put myself back in that headspace fully now. I remember it very clearly but thankfully most of the time I am incapable of reliving it vividly.
We have ALL been here. All of us. You won’t be judged, so don’t beat yourself up ladies. You just are loving the wrong person.
Try to see an opportunity. You have been given a gift, even if it doesn’t look or feel like it. : )
@Aega OK tough love time, if he is trying to contact you every day, and given how your story has evolved, you actually should delete him from MSN because you are getting ego strokes and you are not in any way in No Contact. Sorry but you aren’t – now this is your life and your choice but I went through this exact thing with the mirage and you know what? For him, I was also a mirage – the difference is that for him I was a construct of physical perfection who was there purely to make him look and feel good, my mirage was that he actually DID give a shit and meant what he said.
It’s cruel to keep him on MSN – both to yourself and also to him because somewhere along the line the energies manifesting from your enjoyment of him contacting you will bite you/him/your husband in the arse. It’s easy for us to demonise the men in this totally in our quest to support each other, and we certainly should get all upset about their feelings if they have treated us so shabbily if we have given nothing but love, but when it is over it is OVER. I’ve never gone with “It doesn’t matter” because it didn’t resonate quite the right way for me but I sure as hell have had “It’s OVER” as a mantra.
Why? Cos it will only be over if we say it is over. Not them – they never can and never will, their stock in trade is “maybe”, “soon” and “I’m not good enough” and “I can’t be what you need”.
Delete him. Whether you get back on track with your husband or not, you need this drug out of your system. Everything else is a plastering the surface of a wall that’s broken, it looks nice but underneath the structure is still an accident waiting to happen.
OK lecture over
I can see your joy in life starting to return, the exploration etc. You need something to nurture in your life which is not another person maybe 
I’ve got some fun things happening soon, many landmarks, I should have gone back to Chicago last week, the planned trip to Vegas (yep you’d read into that correctly why a non gambler might go to Vegas) was also originally floated for September. The birthday. This wedding I am going to will need just a single room instead of a double … loads … our anniversary is starting to loom too and that one I know I will struggle with for other reasons. You know what tho? I dunno how I’d have ever coped with any of this without you all so I am not worrying too much.
x
@Aega – I agree with your assessment of my ex being tardy with his presentation info – his *IS* pathetic. I also agree with Butterfly that you are not NC if you get messages from your ex daily. I don’t know how to do that auto-delete thing either with the email, but instead I have told my ex that I would not be in contact with him except for work-related purposes, and I specifically asked him not to contact me in my “final†email. Can you delete his messages unread? And then focus not on the happy times, but on all the times your exMM let you down or managed down your expectations (e.g., that EMT-like phone call)
@Butterfly – yes, Daughtry’s music has helped me to get over my EUM, but I’m sorry he made you cry. Did you listen to “Over You†or “No Surpriseâ€? They are both meaningful to me. I’m glad he just evoked a few tears, and no sobbing – testament to your healing progress. I agree it would be nice to see a name change for Unhappy soul and cantbelieve, but only when the time feels right for them. For me, I think it was 2 weeks NC when I went from notmeanttobe to Meant to be Happy, and you’re right, the old name didn’t seem to fit as I started recovery.I like the advice you gave that they won’t be judged no matter how many times they break NC or seems to take “a step backâ€. It’s what I LOVE about this site!!!
Butterfly wrote this and it is so true,
“For him, I was also a mirage – the difference is that for him I was a construct of physical perfection who was there purely to make him look and feel good, my mirage was that he actually DID give a shit and meant what he said.”
ayup, exactly my experience. The fantasy goes both ways though the details are so very different for each. This also describes exactly why I felt objectified, maybe like the trophy wife concept.
I now also see that we isolate because any of our reasonable and wise friends, f they knew the details of the relationship, would ask us WTH we were doing with that person.
If you think about it, NC is the right thing to do for both parties, cause living life in a fantasy is no way to live. We have to be the stronger and wiser ones and get to work on NC and all the issues that come up with it.
thank you so much for reading and responding to my comment. it is empowering to be part of this community by posting for the first time and being heard. you all rock!!!
even with break-ups with non-ass clowns (yeah, I actually managed to date a few) I usually have to bang my head up against the wall a few times (i.e. hearing the message that its over, going nowhere, he doesn’t feel the same, blah blah blah) before it sinks in. This time, hopefully, it was only the once.
Hang in there everyone, and don’t settle for less than your amazing selves deserve.
I broke NC with ex-EUM again. What I found out, is that his ex-wife is living with him! He told me some story about why and who knows if it is true or false. Something about the ex-wife picked up a woman at the airport who she didn’t know and brought this woman back to the ex-wife’s home to spend the night because the hotel room that the strange woman was staying at, was a flea bag. When the ex-wife was taking the strange woman back to the airport, the ex-wife’s home was broken into and everything was stolen. The strange woman slept in the ex-wife’s daughter’s bed (the child was with her dad) and left the child a note to thank her. The daughter was afraid to sleep in her bed. That was the strangest piece of Sh*t that I ever heard. Supposedly, this was the first time that the ex-wife did this type of thing. I told him not to call me anymore. But guess what he has at least 3 times.
While with this ex-eum, I isolated myself and really made him the be all and do all. I talked with him about any and every issue that I had rather than dole out things on a need to know basis. I told him everything while he told me some things, I am quite sure. When I ended the relationship, his friends, family was still in tack while I had to rebuild and I am still doing that. He is with someone else who he talked about badly and I am alone. At times I am in pain and others I am fine.
I need your thoughts and support.
Thanks.
@Meant, Butterfly, and Anusha
You are all so very very right and I am such a chickenshit. Butterfly, the ego stroking part is hard to own up to (after all this is one of the traits most of our guys have displayed and hurt us with), but yes, you are right. After I read your post I took the time to analyze what I really feel when I see him online. Oddly enough, I’m not curious as to why he’s there, it is more of a he-made-his-bed-now-he-can-sleep-in-it kind of satisfaction. It’s really an ugly feeling, especially since I’ve always felt that love should never spawn any sort of negative emotions, such as experiencing or invoking jealousy, “testing†the other person’s commitment, etc. And here I am, glad that he has been spending his weekends online and I haven’t blinked on the available status even once in 4 weeks. I can’t help wondering how it feels for him to know that I’m here in town and that instead of hiking or traipsing through the desert with me marveling at the sheer beauty of this place he has sat in his study with his laptop on, probably watching television as two gorgeous, balmy days just went by.
It’s none of my business. I’m sitting here thinking, how can anyone who loves the outdoors stay married for 10 years to a woman that doesn’t own a pair of hiking boots? I know it doesn’t matter. But the why’s are crowding my brain. Butterfly, I know that “raw grief and confusion†with my own face against the tile in the shower, crying so hard and feeling so broken inside. I did it this morning, up at 3 am with jetlag and searching the entire two years’ worth of memories for an explanation. I have such a strong need to understand. NML and all of us have said over and over again that it doesn’t matter, that there are no answers to be had and one needs to just let go. But I can’t. I just can’t. I want to know how it feels to have me completely gone from his life after he had professed for 2 years that he couldn’t imagine a life without me.
This morning I put together pro and con columns, one for myself and one for his wife. I mean, if I supposedly had all these attributes, why did I get tossed like this? We had this unbelievable physical attraction. You know what? I may be coming up on 40 but I’m pretty damn hot still. Hell, I made money modeling well into my 30’s. It’s not nice to compare like this to another woman, I know, but I had never before paid much attention to clothes and makeup and such because I was painfully shy for the first 30 years of my life and didn’t really come into my own till the last 5 or so. His wife had been in a sorority (I was cleaning test tubes for minimum wage at the time). I’m funny, too, you know? Granted, heavily on the goofy side, but I’ve always made friends and kept my life full because my hobbies range from welding to literature and I’m never hesitant to try something new.
I guess the pathetic point I’m trying to make here that there’s more to me than a booty call, fantastic as those may have been. I had never ever in my entire life offered up my love to anyone the way I did to him last week. Oh hell. F*k this MSN connection and my comic book character role in his life. I started this rant feeling completely incapable of cutting that bond, but I’m doing it. I don’t want to know whether he is online, looking to talk to me, or at home being domestic. It doesn’t matter. I was not enough. My personality, looks, smarts, and love for him didn’t measure up to the comfort of his home life. He may have told the truth about his wife having no interest in a physical relationship with him (or him with her), or that she neither worked nor contributed to anything domestic, but whatever reason that is what he wants.
I’m bitter and angry and so horribly sad and I don’t need this s*t in my life. This is not who I am. I don’t like the person I became in the course of this relationship and I want my life back. I used to get really irritated with petty people, and now look at me. Butterfly, it is just a broken wall with plaster over it, isn’t it? It’s better to pull it off and see the cracks than throw more gob at it and hide damage. It’s over, it’s over, and I’m just going to keep repeating it till it sinks in.
.-= Aega´s last blog ..Threadless Tshirt Giveaway at jaypeeonline.net =-.
*just a note to everyone*
I’m still here! I just felt I hadn’t anything relevant or helpful to say on this matter. But I’m lapping up every word… and learning lots.
love, Leonine
Aega: “I know it doesn’t matter. But the why’s are crowding my brain.” Even though my mantra has been, “It doesn’t matter, it doesn’t matter, it doesn’t matter,” . . . the reason I keep saying it is to try and retrain my brain to accept that.
Because, I too have the “whys” crowding my brain. That is what is so damned perplexing about getting this relationship out of my heart and out of my head.
I keep searching for some sort of sense. Something to say, “Yeah, that’s it. Now, I know and I can deal with it and move on.”
That’s why I keep complete N/C and why I keep coming back to this site and reading and re-reading – so that I can tap into whatever it is that has me stuck.
Rumination definitely keeps me stuck, but if I don’t keep reading posts and others’ stories, then I feel isolated. As I said in an earlier post, “fear” is not what is holding me back. I want to face every unknown so that that “variable” can then be eliminated.
The EUM, or rather, my EUM got a hold of my psyche in a way that no one else ever even tapped. God! The woman that I was replaced with . . . not attractive, definitely not smart, and definitely not a woman who is kind, loving, and caring. I think, that with the EUM – that’s the thing: they cannot make a commitment to someone who really is available for love.
However, there is the conundrum of many of the stories here, particularly for the MM and MW who find themselves in an ongoing EMR…What is it that caused us to go there? And, are we married to men who are a different kind of EMR?
Again, for me, I want the answers, and I am not afraid to ask the questions. I keep hoping that my brain will get retrained. I do believe, however, that I read some literature, based on studies, that there are a number of women who never do recover from these types of relationships. Ughhhhh.
Just to add: This isn’t about blaming him or others for my dilemma. This is really about me desperately seeking an answer that makes some kind of sense. We do as they say, “… make our own beds.”
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