Last week I asked readers “Do you have boundaries in your relationships?” which threw up some interesting comments. I want to continue to address the issue of the lack of boundaries in relationships and the significant impact that it can have on your well being and the types of relationship that you engage in.
One reader, ARulesGirl2TheEnd encapsulated the whole boundary issue when she said “My mum taught me about boundaries when I was in my teens; she told me to think of it as a kind of Me Club. Set the rules of the club and when people break those rules, politely ask them to leave.“
At times you will even find that you can’t be polite! The main thing is though, that you do ask them to leave.
What is concerning, as I mentioned in the original post and it was reflected in the comments, is the complete absence of boundaries with women, or in some cases very little.
Boundaries are required for all relationships – that’s friends, family, colleagues, and lovers. Everyone.
By having boundaries, you teach people how to treat you and regard you, and those that don’t play ball and cross or bash the boundary lines, get turfed out of your club.
I often find that women who have poor relationships fall into two camps:
They have none or poor boundaries across all of their relationships, or
They have no problem getting medieval on people like their female friends but clamp up around men.
Men don’t deserve special treatment like their kids or pets that don’t know better!
Every relationship you have requires that you have boundaries in place. Boundaries act as your guiding light and you know whether to pass ‘go’ and collect £200, whether you should hang back or proceed with caution, or whether you should take a parachute and jump because you need to abort the mission.
When you have boundaries, you get alerted to inappropriate or downright unacceptable behaviour and you act upon the signal created by having boundaries in place because you listen to yourself, make a judgement, and act upon it.
But how do I set boundaries?
Once you know you have none or very little boundaries, you have to put boundaries in place and the easiest way to do this is by learning to say ‘NO’.
‘NO’ is not a dirty word! Life is not about being a yes person and rolling over so you can be walked all over and kicked whilst you are down. Being in a relationship is not about being a martyr!
The word ‘NO’ allows you to respect you…and for others to respect you. Nobody can say yes all the time and regardless of whatever warped messaging is telling us the contrary, nobody expects you to say yes all the time…unless they’re an assclown.
Ask yourself, ‘What am I not prepared to accept in a relationship?’ so that you can define your boundaries.
If you can’t think of something, you know something’s really, really wrong, because we can all find at least ten things that are a serious no go for a relationship!
If you accept everything that comes your way, how would you make the decision to opt out?
The truth is, if you’re a woman who’s like a dog with a bone and won’t opt out and instead is expecting him to change, for him to become like you think he should be, or just cruising along blaming yourself and accepting that life and men are sh*t, you have no boundaries.
Boundaries force you to be accountable and take responsibility for your own happiness…or your misery.
We’re often scared of having boundaries as if being a pushover who is all accepting is a really attractive quality because we’re scared of being alone, scared of trusting our judgement, scared that he’ll magic into The Ideal Man if we tell him to take a run and jump, and just plain scared of saying ‘NO’.
This is like being scared of assigning value to yourself.
So go back to basics….
What should you be saying no to?
What do you want to say no to right now but can’t get the words out?
What makes you feel miserable and taken advantage of?
What are your consistent negative threads (your patterns) in your relationships and what has it taught you about what is and isn’t acceptable?
Ask yourself if you’re a ‘yes’ person and what could you cut back on
- one woman I spoke with cut back on her ‘yes’ instinct and injected a ‘no’ into her day by literally, for every 9 yes’ saying no, and then introducing more. She found it excruciating initially but at the same time empowering and people adjusted around her. Guess what? She’s happier.
Are you pretending to be happy and grimacing your way through life? You know when you smile but it’s a tight one, or the smile doesn’t reach your eyes because you’re in turmoil within? What is bugging you?
Do you have boundaries in other areas of your life such as with family and friends? What can you apply to your relationships with men?
And I should say, often there is very little difference between the fundamental boundaries and you shouldn’t be prepared to accept more shit in your life because it has a penis and testicles hanging off the end of it…
List your potential boundaries that have arisen through your introspection – you’ll find that a number cross into each other and can be summarised into one boundary. The likelihood is that you should be able to find at least ten things that are major nono’s for you
The important thing though, is that whatever happens, you need to ensure that you enforce boundaries because that is the true test of them – that you live by them. It’s incredibly empowering and what you’ll find surprising is that saying no or opting out of situations that cross your boundaries, actually feels good.
Don’t spend your time trying to analyse the crap out of his behaviour and make excuses for it because you’re missing the point – it doesn’t feel good to you. End of. He’s crossed your boundaries. You don’t need to find an excuse for that – you need to process the information and opt out.
Your thoughts?
Get ahead on understanding waste of space men and relationships with my ebook, Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. Find out more and download. Also find out more about my No Contact Rule web seminar, or if you need personal advice or analysis of your relationship, check out my consultation service.
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NML, this is all so true! Your statement “it’s like being scared of assigning value to yourself” so hit home with me. I have realized that I have been doing this for a long time–not valuing myself and therefore giving those in my life the message that I don’t care enough about myself to set appropriate boundaries to preserve and maintain my own happiness. This is so important, not just with our relationships with men, but with coworkers, friends and family also. Great post, let’s all read this one more than once!
I am pretty sure I have a decent set of healthy boundaries in place now. The only thing I’m wondering is… if I’m setting them – and men are breaking them so that I walk away – which is big progress for me – how come I’m still not meeting an excellent man ? Or do you just have to kiss a lot of toads first ?
I’m definitely not getting hurt like I used to, but I’m still not attracting a good guy who doesn’t act like an assclown in one way or the other.
That’s what I want to know too Annie!
Annie, Veronica – I think it’s like NML has said in the past — EUM’s are a dime a dozen… They are like the plague of the dating scene, and in our flaky day and age there are tons and tons of them. So yes, you have to kiss a lot of toads. But by becoming more aware of the dangers that await in the dating pool – and finding and maintaining your boundaries as in this post – you learn to avoid swimming with the sharks, er..toads. There will always be EUMs…trying to creep in…play games….and they try their tricks with most every woman, it’s not simply just us meeting the wrong guys (although when we meet them, at least for me, we find that meeting comfortable as mentioned in NML’s past posts), there are just lots of them (and since lots of them are cheating, they statistically are working many more opportunities than the decent guys so maybe that makes it seem like more). But it also doesn’t mean we have to date them. Meeting them and later rejecting them doesn’t mean there is something wrong with us – the rejecting is the healthy part. That means you can say no to crap behavior. Recognize, abort mission, continue looking. Frustrating? Yes. Better than being involved with one? You betcha. We need to still believe in love because there are good men out there.
BBP, right on your comment.
Veronica, Annie,you have to keep on trying until you meet the right one, at least I am not willing to give up. Just don’t make dating a full time job, enjoy life every day and he could just be a nice addition to your life.
NML, you are so smart. May as well be talking directly to me. I know that I have little to no boundaries. I’m learning, also, that this all started in my childhood, when all decisions were made for me and then as a young adult when all my decisions were judged as bad or wrong. So guess what? Now, at 46, I have an incredibly difficult time making decisions … which must be directly related to me making boundaries for myself. You are doing me and other women like me such a great service by having this site. Your article made me cry – that means it hit home. Lots to think about …
And one more thing! Your last paragraph… “Don’t spend your time trying to analyse the crap out of his behaviour and make excuses for it because you’re missing the point – it doesn’t feel good to you. End of. He’s crossed your boundaries. You don’t need to find an excuse for that – you need to process the information and opt out.”
ME, all over the place. This was me over 2 years ago – he told me he didn’t want a real relationship with me – he told me he didnt’ want his family to know about me – it did NOT feel good to me. I’ve been hurting for all this time and stayed, looking and hoping for change.
He flat out drew his boundaries and I had none! It makes me feel so foolish and ashamed of myself. Just by NOT saying NO, I have wasted so much love and time. I cant do this anymore.
Boundaries are most important, and the ME CLUB works for me and as NML pointed out it is important, however you have to build on it, its also about what you value and what you want for yourself and never settling. I was always in denial about what I wanted, in that if a guy said he wanted to go out and just have fun, I would always say ‘yeah me to’ but the truth always leaked through: I wanted to find my soul mate, someone to walk through life with… always settling for flipperflapping twaty behaviour afraid to be alone. so were back to us. I have a great me club, but men are crafty, you dont tell them ever what your boundaries are like on the first date or later made the mistake with my addict telling him I will not go out with someone who does drugs, errrrrrr big mistake he spent a whole year hiding it, terrrible terrible for me!!! assclown behaviour. Before I met my other half I went out with a bloke who I liked alot, he does alot with teenagers in our area, but he let slip that he likes ‘to party every now and then’ a huge red flag went up ‘abort mission’ I did. We learn from our experiences thats how we build on our ME CLUB rules. Rember the pain you go through is worth something if you learn from it. Also I hear alot about you great women dating and yeah these idiots are two a penny, remember, your looking for one, and just chill with the dating, have fun, sit back and enjoy the ride, because when men F@@@@K up, as they usually do, have fun with it, have a girls chat and laugh about it, men are hilarious at times.
Hi Im Katy, the above woman is my dearest friend, and its because of me she is posting on this blogg. Ladies listen to her and NML because they are so right.
Imstaying with arules girl, she taking care of my wasted heart. I love to watch her and her hubby. Ive known her for , god years, before she got healthy and through a really dark period of her life. I remeber asking her hubby why he fell for her, the reason was not because she was a loving person, and jesus she is, its because , he said, …I knew from the start, she wldnt take any crap…’. Her hubby was someone who loved women and he had his fun but because of her rules and boudaries he fell for hook line and sinker. She knew what she wanted, he knew what she wanted, he had a choice in or out? he stayed.
This one is confusing for me… I feel like I do not fall into a one of these categories. I don’t have boundaries this much I know BUT when someone does something that bothers me for ex. My EUM would say I will be over in 15 and an hour later he would not have shown and have some excuse, I certainly don’t let it slide. I actually fly off the handle and have been told by others in my life that my reactions to thinks seem overblown. However, partly I know this is due to the fact that I am sick of feeling like people can walk all over me.
Now with the EUM this is all I would do as opposed to leaving. So the messege he got in the end is, she will yell but then it’s over and she’s still here. So I get that much. I am not sure what an effective way is of dealing with these things. I mean sometimes people make mistakes, you can’t break up with every single guy just because they make one mistake. So how many chances do you give?
My EUM was flakey for sure, always an excuse but that was a pattern it took me a while to discern. I guess next time I will notice it a bit earlier.
annied- Your not foolish, you love, its a gift, dont ever be ashmed of the gift you have to give. Hes the foolish one. Let him go, with love. You did your best, no-one can ask more. xx
No cant break up with every guy for every mistake they make-unless its in the rules of the me club. examle of some rules I have.
No stand-ups
Call when you say you will
be there on time
NO drugs
No going to the pub after work every night
No other women
Its about sticking to YOUR rules. If you dont like it its a rule end of. Also its about common decency on their part!!! If they cant get the simple things how the hell are they gonna deal with the real stuff!!
I thought I would respond to a couple of the questions on here even though there have been some responses to them – I’ll keep it brief though as my bedtime is calling and anything lengthier is more suited to a post.
Loving Annie – Always remember it’s not about instant results. You build the confidence through applying your boundaries, recognising when they’ve been crossed, applying your judgement, and opting out. Assclowns are ten a penny – you meet less and less of them the further down the road you travel and when you do come across them, you opt out quick time. It’s not about dwelling on each one – I realised my issues and set boundaries and still found myself dating/meeting a few assclowns – the point is that they didn’t last long and when I did meet the boyf, I was very equipped to see him for what he was. I met him when I wasn’t even trying – I would get on with living your life and if you really want to cut down on assclowns, I would keep online dating to a minimum. You grow into this – it’s not one day ‘dark’ next day ‘light and everything is suddenly perfect and Mr Right appears. Mail me if you need me, hugs xx
AnnieD (Hugs) I really feel for you. We all come to things in different ways and what I do know is that at some point, you need to make a decision, and stick with it. It’s the indecision that will kill you (not literally) but it’s incredibly damaging and the thing is that nothing is changing. He has already opted out and the responsibility is now yours to do the same. Don’t be ashamed because you are human, you trust, and you make mistakes, and you get scared. You have to change this pattern though.
Dazedandconfused – A boundary is about unacceptable behaviour – that means you don’t accept it. There are red flags which have been discussed many times and these are complete no no’s and then there is other inappropriate behaviour that flags up that there is a problem, a disrespect issue. Some people work on a 3 strikes of the latter and opt out. You decide how many chances you give – the point is that when all you’re giving is chances, someone is effed up. And no it’s not ‘one mistake’ – it depends on what the mistake is. Not turning up at all for instance is a serious no and would cause me to end it with a guy. Him being late occasionally would not, especially if he overall had strength of character and both of his feet in the relationship. The thing with you is that you actually want to create excuses.
We all make excuse for people, we call it the benefit of the doubt, ok, if happens again. errr no. But we have to draw al ine were the benefit surley has to run out. Girls its so empowering to say NO, to men who cant get a frickin grip. So what if they go out the next night and get laid, you said no. If he doesnt contact you, after finishing with you, he problay wont cos your always the one does the contact, Turn off your phone, change your number, you wont know if he’s tried to contact you,and it wont hurt.
ARules, that is true what you said: ” If he doesnt contact you, after finishing with you, he problay wont cos your always the one does the contact.” They just wait for you to make the contact and if this doesn’t happen, they may if they NEED something from you, correct?
Very nice! It’s always a treat to get new posts from you NML. And I’m particularly grateful to the ladies that have the bulk of this (a**clown behavior) behind them. I consider myself to be a smart woman but I have a difficult time determining when to walk away….What I’m learning however is that only I can answer that. It’s refreshing to hear the logical (and quite reasonable) responses from those that have been there, done that =) Thanks ladies
DazedandConfused,
I have a question, if others in your life think that your reactions to things are overblown and you were always yelling at your EUM, what is it that is really making you so angry?
DazedandConfused,
Follow up ?, are you angry because people are walking all over you or is it something deeper than that? Just some thoughts since I have been posed this question myself and found that I was lashing out not because of the surface reasons but something much deeper…Gail
Speaking of boundaries…I wonder how many women on here actually suffered from sexual abuse as a child. I think one area I’m weak in is trusting my instincts and second-guessing myself. That stems (in particular for me) from having boundaries violated and being powerless to enforce those boundaries at a young age.
I think we all have to admit here and now that finding an excellent man is not easy. It just isn’t. That’s why some women stay in bad realtionships because they’re afraid of going back out there and trying again.
People are busy, have busy lives and don’t have a lot of time for socializing. It’s a full time job just to make a living and keep a roof over one’s head. If you’re single it’s even harder.
It’s more difficult to meet people if you don’t do the online dating route. I don’t know about anyone else on this site but there are not that many social events that I go to where I would meet single men. I did join a gym and an interest group but that is not a lock that I’ll meet anyone eligible there.
Online dating is a pain in the butt. I guess if you keep at it, dating locally, you might get lucky but my experience has been less then successful. I’m pretty turned off to it.
So it begs the question, where do you meet single men without having to hang out in bars looking like a booty call? That’s the dilema for many women. I think that’s why so many of us are hooking up with EUM”s, because we’re meeting them online. Sure with online dating you get lots of emails and chats but what really comes out of it?
Just finding an interesting, eligible man offline is hard, in my experience, let alone whether he’s decent or EUM.
That’s why I’m concentrating on myself right now. I’m exhausted from my xEUM relationship, online dating and just the whole dating scene in general. I know I’m not alone.
Metsgurl= If he contacts you 4-5 weeks later, its usually cos he’s run out of options, and he’s got a problem or wants the other! Men who truly love you, stick around thro the thick n thin. They get that life aint always the rush of the first date and understand and accept that at some point the the rush dies, but are happy with it and importantly happy just to be with you. If he’s finished with you, he dont want to be with you, end of. Dont flog a dead horse, its humiliating, and proves to him you have no self worth.
What’s the point in having boundaries if you don’t enforce them or bend them to suit his needs? That was my mistake with Twatman.
I thought that I was being too harsh when he clearly had “so much going on his life.” Silly, I know.
Anyway, I’ve set my boundaries and set Twatman free as well. I will never chase a man who won’t chase me. I will never beg a man for his love, affection or time. I am not sharing my man. And he will have to prove himself worthy of me.
I erred in this relationship, but believe me, it won’t happen again!
Cynnie- you go girl.xx
Errrr why is my husband blogging on this site!!! Honey I know you love all this, but please take your name off!
Cynnie, I want to be like YOU!
I have been coming to this website for a month now, because I nearly lost my mind trying to rationalise and think and dissect conversations. Every article here tells me exactly what I’ve been avoiding hearing. This post especially reduced me to tears. I’ve been dating a guy for almost a year now – except of course, he doesn’t call it dating. he calls it “Casual.”
The same conversations, the same hysterical break ups, the same blame game, the same feelings of guilt, the same self-doubt… all of it. I’ve done everything. I’ve settled for so much less than I deserve, not just generally, but from him in particular.
Every time I have a conversation with him, he gets angry, then vague and then tries to be all lovey-dovey and innocent as if to make me feel better. We haven’t had a conversation to date where he has been direct.
I feel unwanted, unappreciated and as if I’m the one working at this.He is 24, I’m 22 and this is technically the first time I’ve been in something that’s not a fling or a juvenile relationship. I have also never been wrapped up in someone so much. I’ve neglected my friends, my writing, my own time just to be around him.
I had a conversation with him today, where I told him, in clear terms, that I wanted to be a priority in his life. I asked him if he could do that. A plain question. He first tried to change the topic, then when I told him to just answer me, he said these conversations worried him and that it all seemed too “relationshippy.” He said he didn’t want to be in a relationship and didn’t want to make a girl, any girl, his priority. And then when he realised what he had said, and realised that those statements left me with no choice but to end things, he turned around and said, “you know you’re a priority, why do i need to say it?”
It’s just stuff like this, ALL the time. We have our fun, our good times, but every time I want to talk about something that may have been bothering me, he flares up or becomes flakey – almost as if it is my fault for expecting ANYthing at all out of someone who’s “been” with me for a year.
I’m at my wit’s end. I don’t even know why I’m thinking so much – the answer is simple, I need to walk away. But I don’t have that faith in me anymore – I don’t believe that I can walk away and mean it and not come back at the first sign of weakness,.. I really don’t know what to do.
Zooey, you have come to the right place. Read the articles, read the posts. I’m much older than you, but the EUM you just described may as well be my ex-EUM. Said the same stuff, acted the same way – check out some of my posts. Dont be like me, who hung on for over 2 years on someone who didnt want a “relationship”. It beats you up inside. My ex did the same thing (get angry make jokes or twist things) whenever I brought up something he was uncomfortable with. He is not there for you, Zooey. He is only there for himself. Time to get strong … I am right there with ya! ((hugs))
Zooey= we all are, read what Cynnie says about 6 posts up. If he dont want you you dont go back. Apply the no contact rule, see other bloggs and make a start today. A YOU start! one for yourself honey, cos he sure as wont do anything for you. Men are twats at times. We are loving you though ok.
Thanks NML – got it and understand better now
Well it all go in our house! My hubby blogged on this site earlier, KatyB who is my heartbroken friend went off and did her thing, reduced him to a blubbering mess!!! WOW!!! at last!!! Ive plyed her with wine most of the day Ive got her tucked up in bed reading!!! Hooray! Im giving her dinner in bed and will have a girlie nite with her. xxx That tosser betta do one or jesus He’ll get it!!! Oh the power of a womans tongue. KatyB we love you xxx
Thanx girls and NML its been a horrid 2 years for her, Im glad I went searching for a101 reasons to dump your man and came up with this. Its given her strength. xx
Zooey,
You stated you “don’t believe that I can walk away.” Ask yourself what exactly your getting from this ‘relationship?’ I know that when I ended it with EUM it was very difficult but with time things became much, much easier. I think the most liberating thing was getting my self-respect back-happened the day I left him- self-love is far more important than any man. I’m sure your life was normal and happy before you met this ass, don’t you want someone who loves and appreciates you. He’s not going to change!
You must put yourself first!
This is so right on!! I find that my lack of boundaries are in most of not all of my relationships. I seemed to attract men and women who need me to do all the work, or couldn’t find their way outta of their ass. This happened in personal relationships, work relationships, love relationships, I was the worker bee and they knew that I would be the glue that held everything together, count on ole Isabella! But what happened was I the one that they abused both emotionally and verbally when I couldn’t keep up the pace and grew tired or just damn pissed off. An old hag boss that I had me do some lazy co-worker’s job because she knew that I could be counted on and got it done. This lazy co-worker was not given any type of warning when she just didn’t do her work instead the hag boss begin verbally abusing me. I realize that I was raising adults. No wonder I was feeling like crap most of the time.
Good post. It would also be good to hear what some people’s boundries should be. When I ended things for the 20th time two weeks ago with a MM, he said to me “I’m not worried, you always come back at some point.” Im so glad he said that because the was IN MY FACE. I have had such little boundries about what crumbs I settle for, he doesn’t even care. When I told him I was seeing someone, He said “I don’t care” because I know how you really feel and we’ll be together again someday. I wanted to throw up in my mouth. Turned out the guy I was seeing (beside MM) just wanted something casual, even though we met online and he new what I was looking for. When he went through the 2nd time of no calling me for 4 days, I ended it. Today I cellabrate 1 week NC with the MM and I’m having a Mex dinner with 3 good friends. Thanks for writing Natalie
It finally clicked for me when he said “the decision is up to me.” Then I realized what an idiot I was and that I had allowed this creep to be in complete control. I can’t believe that the ‘relationship’ had come to this point. Thank God I’m out!!!!!!!!!
Rules,
What did she say?
I asked a question of your hubby in response to his post re. signs. Please let him know I am interested in a response.
Thanks
I think for a lot of people including myself turning into a yes person happens insidiously over time. When I was in my twenties, one of my paramours actually nicknamed me Miss No. Then as time went on and the choices in men gradually waned and years went by without a boyfriend; my clearly defined boundaries lines began to blur. The more lonesome for decent male company I became, more the lines blurred, until they finally disappeared. Time and life just wears it down and then along comes the ass clown. After tussling with a few of those I realized I had lost those boundaries I had. Accepted the fact that I may end up alone and made peace with that. Now my boundaries are back and here to stay
Ya know sometimes I get so lonely. After my divorce, I decided to stay in Georgia rather than move back home. I wanted to be able to support myself. But being alone now for over 5 years and without a relationship or partner has begun to wear on me along with other things, hence the ass clown that was in my life. I look drawn and seemingly I am usually worried about something. At least with the ass clown, I had some laughs. Sometimes, I feel like a failure or something or not worthy, attractive to warrant a good man who really wants to be with me. I know a lady who after her divorce, met a man who with all the attributes that she envisioned, why not me? I did the list of likes and dislikes until I am tried of typing or writing. No voila. I am like a roller coaster, up and down. I look at my former marriage and that failed and now the recent assclown relationship. Oh my, I wonder what has become of me.
To top that off, boundaries……. well no boundaries. I feel that I have worked on myself with therapy and reading books and yet, I fell for an assclown that took me mentally for a spin. I had boundaries, I thought and I called him on the carpet a few times when I felt that he crossed them, but slowly that left when I had to shift gears and deal with my dysfunctional family who ran all over my boundaries, rather I didn’t have any with them.
Loving Annie
Maybe you could draw a map. Not a street map, but a map of where you met unsuitable guys. One bubble might be “Club A”, the next “Friend 2″, the next “grocery line”, the next “sold me a red 1950 Edsel, used, piece of junk”. That way you could identify areas where toads hang out. Usually toad entertainment offends good guys.
And probably the good guys, past about mid 20′s, aren’t hanging out anywhere. You have to catch them at work, or through contacts in their community or church. Instead of wandering the woods looking for “likely” looking toads, find the smiling princesses, and hang out where they found their prince-in-disguise!
And don’t kiss toads. Make friends. Make lots of casual acquaintances. You want to know lots of people living with good boundaries, that you can ask or infer about whether a particular individual is generally respected or treated with caution. Chat with people when standing in line, or arrive early for church activities and other events. And maybe wait until you think you have a live one.
Joy!
Dazed,
“I actually fly off the handle”. This is two problems, as I see it. First, when you have a predictable response to misdeeds, that is “nagging”. Unattractive, and quite faulty for accomplishing anything. Nagging lacks respect, and because it keeps repeating without anything changing – shows a feeling of powerlessness.
The other problem I see is what gail mentioned – a problem with anger issues. Anger is very damaging even to a good relationship, and may take outside counseling to help you resolve it.
As for his plan for 15 minutes, and showing up an hour late, that is lame. First, abusing your patience is rude. Impolite. An act of disrespect. He might be morbidly bad at planning, but he isn’t taking responsibility for himself. He is irresponsible. Heaven forbid he should teach disrespect and irresponsible behavior to your children, if there should be any. His lame excuse is rude and disrespectful. Allowing his “lapses” to become a pattern is a gross act of disrespect for you, and may be an indication of other problems on his part.
An honest and respectful mate should be concerned about any unhappiness they inadvertently cause. No, I don’t buy the flowers or candy as an apology – not when this is a pattern. If he works late, calls to let you know about the delay, makes his updated expected time of arrival – that isn’t anywhere near what this is. And depending on what plans were interrupted, perhaps a peace offering would be appropriate.
Stuff happens. But when someone turns circumstance into an expression of disrespect and deceit – that cannot be a healthy relationship. The issue with his lateness is not being 45 minutes late – it is the disrespect of making it a habit, and the irresponsible behavior of repeating acts of disrespect. And there is an implied lie, too, in letting you believe the wait is 15 minutes, instead of the hour it turns out to be.
Disrespect has to be confronted, or it gets worse until someone gets hurt. You aren’t his boss, or his mommy, so you have no standing to discipline him (yelling, threatening, etc.) He isn’t going to change. This isn’t something you can put up with – being late could be tolerated, sometimes, but the deceit and rudeness and disrespect are deal killers for me.
If you aren’t ready to walk away from a bad relationship, are you really ready to be in one? Which I guess is another way of saying you gotta have boundaries. Enforcing a boundary is what makes it a boundary, otherwise it is just another silly rule everyone ignores. Who was it that said, “it is the dates a girl walks home from, that proves her character”?
Blessed be.
Gaynor= dont worry he’ll reply. He’s more into this than we are!!! lol. You see an emotionally available man!! He gets it, but it came at a huge cost, the woman in question tore him from arse to ear hole by all accounts, left him in a mess. Good on her I say. He lost his job, etc. On his arse, then he got the help he neede. IE identifying issues from the past then letting them go. KatyB is OK Im glad she’s here I can look after her!!!! OH NO!!! Yes Im a carer a fixer at heart. But luckily she takes care of me to when I need it. I’ll get her online at some point. To be honest she likes reading all this stuff, but I think she feels a bit fragile and ashmed to talk to anyone else about what has happened. Its really been awful for her and the worst of it as she knows from me and this site is that she let it happen. Thats a bitter pill to swallow cos its so easy to blame others. But I explained to hermaybe its ok to blame others whilst youre getting over it, when the heartache has died, then she can deal with herself, because if you dont your holding the issue, ir staying attatched, then you release with love taking your part in it to. Then she can move on an become healthy again. At times I thank my experience with an addict, it was the most godawful 3 years of my life, but through my obssesion of helping him I learnt about the 12 steps and this then gave me insight into my own behaviour, the 12 steps can be applied to evry area of life and it helped me a great deal. I got myself an N?A work book from Families Anon and began to work on myself as addicts do in re-hab and recovery. It gave muge amounts of personal insight about my past and my issues, and taught me how to let go. I leave in peace now, and Im glad, because when my addict knocked on my door to make his amendmendt, I knew he had worked on himself and was serious about changing his life, and I was able to accept his amendment without question or mistrust, I had moved on.
Also, this work and by going to N/A meetings gave a huge insight to others behaviour, I can easily watch someone and pick up on their issues quickly, ie watch what they are doing, drinking, angry, lots of things. I call such behaviour Addict Mentality, although in theory they may not be addicts in the terms that we understand. Its the mentality that you have to look out fore, denial, selfishness, some people are in a real mess, IE walking contradictions. they say one thing and do another, they belive what their saying, but I can now look to the heart of it and see the real issue, its not their fault, their underdeveloped mentality, not grown, its has to do with social structures, upbringing things that happen in child etc, but I came to learn that even though you know this and you want to help, most people dont want to be helped, they see it as your controlling them, thats why its best to move on, yes it does leave you with the label of being hard arsed and uncaring, but better that than 3 years down the road your here on this website looking for answers, with a wasted broken heart and not knowing if your coming or going, some people on this site have suggested that Im unthinking, wrong!! Im not I care, I have huge amounts of personal insight, but I have to look after me. First.
Gaynor-JohnT posted on this sight didnt he, I was here when he did it. I went and did the same, because I needed him to know about my pain, the pain Ive deyed for 2years because Ive always put him first. I didnt beg him I told I didnt want him and I was never going back. Im not He wont do the same a JT because he aint that nice. It really waas about my lil girl, its her 7th b’day today! and on Wed she asked me if he would come and see her, that made my blood boil because I knew he wouldnt even be thinking of her, which is a contradiction really because he stayed with s over xmas, in fact he was more excited about it than I was, because in my heart I knew when the pressies and food was done and we were jst together as couples do, he would freak just like he did last year, This is exactly how he acted after last xmas, didnt love me really, blah blah blah. But what hurt was he was also saying that about my lil girl, and that was to much to bear. He told me yesterday and I quote ‘…I dont know what love is, hell I dnt know what feelings are, I cant cope… I lust after you I know…but love…” Stop right there buster!!!!! How the fuck dare he say that after 2years. I let him have it, made him cry. Still didnt get a card for my lil girl, even after his tears and sorries. Awful Awful.
Hi everyone!
I need serious advice and help as to how to get out of my deep deep hole I have created.
I need to build a boundary – a boundary that completely prevents my EUM from pushing himself time and time again to the forefront of my life.
For 6 long years I have battled with a torrent of feelings, highs,love, laughter, lust..the the lows, low self esteem, battered and bruised soul. My EUM is in a relationship with another woman. In the beginning he was absolutely committed to leaving (I believed his lies and deceit) but it never came, and time passed, I moved on to someone else for 12 mths, then when my life is empty (or so i think) I let him back in.
I cannot cut ties from this EUM. For the last 12 mths he has drifted in and out of my life. I beat myself up because I dont want to be in this situation anymore. I ask myself if I am still here because of the sex,but i am not. I am too weak. I feel unfulfilled without him in my life. I know that i something I am lacking inside me, AND i need to find that.
He doesnt improve my life. The situation does not make me happy. I enjoy his company, but not the bullshit/lies.
Ultimately, I do not know the person I have continued to let into my life for the last 7 years.. his other life is everything he needs, with me on the sidelines to bolster up a possibly stagnent relationship.
I want to know how to break the cycle. I want to know how to get happy, to get strong and to tell this man “I do not need you”.
I know it is as simple as going cold turkey. But I have failed miserably at no contact about 8 times. Maybe I need to leave the country!
We work a few mins away from each other (different buildings) and he lives in the same village although I have never seen him.
The thought of him continuing to have sex with his real relationship is literally destroying me, even though I know the situation I am in.
I need to get a life.
Please advise!!
L&F xx
Gail and Brad K, thank you for the input. Perhaps “fly off the handle” is an overstatement. Anger issues… something I have asked myself. I dated an abusive person a few years ago and watched myself deteriorate while with them. Basically, in a relationship you can be a good communicator but your skills are lowered to those which you are dealing with. If someone is yelling at you and refuses to listen I find you drop to their level. It’s like unintelligent animals having a fight (I’m rubber and you’re glue). The only way to communicate with these people, is to walk away.
Gail– you hit the nail on the head for me I think, which is that my reactions are due to years of built up anger towards getting walked over. When I met my EUM I had been single for 7 months trying to deal with the last guy. I thought I was better and going to never let things happen to me that had before. But, this meant going to the other end of the spectrum. So when “small” things would happen, I would be really upset and put my foot down. I did not “fly off the handle” but my reaction was one of being firm and saying I will not tolerate such behaviour. It seemed extreme to the other person, but I just felt sick of not standing up for myself. So it’s a process of healing. I might not have got it right the first time but it’s a learning process right? Just as someone said in an earlier post about learning ot say no, it was uncomfortable at first.
But I do not think I have general anger problems. When I am dealing with respectful good people I do not feel incapable of expressing myself, because they communicate calmly and with words as well. I watched myself get angrier as I got impatient with my inability to convey messages or be heard with my EUM. So it’s not necessarily that I have issues, but that this was a toxic relationship that did not bring out the best in me. I appreciate your questions though as they cause me to keep digging deeper.
Rules,
I’m happy to hear that John is into the site, I wish that there were more men that were as receptive.
I have enjoyed all of your posts, you’re a straight shooter as am I. I’m sorry you have received negativity from other posters-so have I-but I think others are at different places in their healing and how they accept information.
I have to say you’re a loving and compassionate friend and I’m glad Katy has someone as you to turn to.
The info on the 12 step program is a valuable one. How long were you in the program? How did it help you establish the necessary boundaries? The one point I didn’t understand was about how it wasn’t their fault if they knew they were inflicting pain? If I know I am hurting others-over and over-I would choose to make changes, these people don’t seem to care and choose not to make changes. To me it all seems very sadistic.
Katy,
I’m sorry for your pain. None of it makes sense.
I don’t understand how someone can be in lust for two-years, that doesn’t make sense??? It sounds like the guys is so confused and screwed up. Did he have any understanding of your feeling- as John did- or were the tears only for him????
Gaynor, I’m doing CODA, which is Codependents Anyomous and they also do the twelve steps. It’s like NA, or AA for those that are basically addicted to people and bad situations. It’s been helping me a lot. I call it Fallback girl/EUM Anyomous, because everyone in CODA is basically a fallback girl or an EUM seeking recovery. They take you through the same 12 steps as NA or AA. Check online, because they should have local meetings in your area.
I call it addict Mentality, its about total lack of personal insight, and its complex, People have issues that they are unaware of, learned behaviour and other shit. They go through life blaming everyone else anything else, ie, men say their not in love, blaming something else, not looking at what the real issue is THEY cant commit, and understanding why, come out with crap YOUR TO NEEDY blaming someone else its a complex subject, I call typical men behavior Addict Mentality in a very diluted form, it mirrors an addicts selfish blinkered out look, looking for someone else to sort it out. Going from women to women, filling voids, its never enough etc People dont know how they behave ie you women on this site its, ADDICT MENTALITY love gone wrong CO_DEPENDANCY, its not love its about your issues, People saying they scream and rant because of the way people behave, blaming others. This is another form of denial. Living in denial about anything will cause your demise in the end. I worked the programme with my ex, then began to realise I to had a problem started doing it on my own, not that Im saying being in love is a problem it is when your in position to have to use this site. Its principles have just become a part of me, thats how much an effect it had on me, its truly amazing, and for the critics it has NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGON, you think that and you aint getting it, It helped me set boundaries in that its has to be ZERO TOLERANCE, because if its not your enabling the addict to continue to fuck up your life, lie, cheat steal, no not feel sorry for them, actually loving them as we classify love can make them worse, to love someone truly is to set them free. They have to find their own way home, some get it, most dont. But its the best way. When dealing with an addict you support positive steps but do not tolerate their MENTALITY, you dont nag critise, you shut the door, Ive applied a diluted version to men. its simple really. Its nothing different to what NML is saying, she gets it, so do I. and thankfully most on this site begin to get it after time by learning of each other. Jt said he’ll answer over the weekend, KatyB is fine xxx raw but fine.
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