I was scanning my backlog of emails from readers looking for advice, most of it about a chump that is totally not worth their while and I could not believe the number of women who said they had so much in common with their guys.
The sheer numbers of you that profess common interests like golf, reading, music, books, outdoors, cooking, eating, DIY (you doing work on his place for free whilst he actually treats you poorly), only seeing each other when it’s dark once a week, walking dogs, making you laugh, molecular science, and yada, yada, yada, is damn well terrifying.
But let me turn this upside down for you -
If you guys don’t share common ground on the things that are actually important to the relationship, the fact that you both like Pavarotti really…doesn’t mean jack sh*t!
Harsh but true. All it means is you both like Pavarotti. If he’s cheating/beating/lying/disrespecting or whatever his MO of choice is, his musical tastes and the fact that he lets you join him on the golf course is nonsense information.The only type of common ground that means anything of real substance in a relationship is if you both share the same common interest in being with each other and being committed to each other and the relationship.
If he makes you laugh till tears roll down your face, that’s great, but if that’s all he’s got going for him, you’d be better of buying a ticket to watch him do stand up. It’d hurt less and cost you less energy, emotion, and self-esteem.
Why do women dwell on this whole ‘we have so much in common’ BS?
Because it gives us a reason to stay invested and avoid admitting that it’s wrong for us.
Another consistent thing I read about these relationships is that often, when the guy says the dreaded words ‘We have nothing in common’, the woman on the receiving end is outraged!
“I TOTALLY disagree!” one woman said to me recently. “We have everything in common and are perfect for each other! I can’t imagine life without him!”
Correction – I can think of at least one thing they don’t have in common and it’s that she wants a relationship with him and he doesn’t. She had better start imagining life without him…
If you don’t share the common ground of YOU then this relationship ship is not going to sail. Period.
He may well be an assclown, but the reality is that what you believe is your common ground is not his common ground.
It is not up to you to decide what you both have in common because if it worked so well, the relationship would not be floundering.
You’re actually projecting your perception of the relationship and for instance, your common interests, plus undoubtedly what you feel for him onto him.
But ultimately, they’re not his interests or feelings, hence you no longer have anything in common.
This is one of those things that you need to accept as a given and not expend too much energy trying to analyse it because you can’t force a common ground and you certainly can’t force a relationship and him to love you as we discussed yesterday.
Look at this way, from the moment that he either says that you have nothing in common or from the moment you discover that you don’t share the common interest of a relationship where you both have both feet in, it is time to make a dignified exit.
Your thoughts?
My new book How to Lose an Assclown in 90 Days is due out next week but if you want to get ahead on understanding waste of space men, there is also my ebook, Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. Find out more and download.
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Well put!
I didn’t even realize that there may be a problem for some woman in this area. I have to give it more thought, but at this point, I agree with you.
Cheers!
your post yesterday and today seemed like they were written just for me. I wish i knew all these earlier,i could ve saved myself some hurt. Its true u can never make someone love you and never try to force some common ground.
Great post. Now that I’ve quit with Mr. EUM and the rose coloured glasses are off, I can see a lot of things much more clearly now. What we had in common was a birthday, great sex and a sharp wit. That’s it people – and it doesn’t amount to much.
I thought that we would learn more about each other as we dated and the relationship grew. That I would learn more about his values and his views on issues such as family, career, friendship. Alas, this was not to be, for after the first 4 months I realised something was wrong. Then I spent the next 7 months tryng to correct it by “working on our problems”, talking, starting NC, breaking up, getting back together. (A colossal waste of time, I might add)
The point I’m making is that I don’t really know him and that upon reflection, we have nothing in common. I thought that if he would just stop being a &(#@! that we could continue getting to know each other and learning our common interests. But he never tried with the relationship – he always had one foot out of the door.
So, we have nothing in common.
I wanted a man who wouldl love me and be there for me. He wanted a woman who would be there at his beck and call.
I wanted to a man to spend time with and share my hopes and dreams. He wanted a woman who hopefully, wouldn’t dream of asking him to commit..
I wanted a steady relationship. He wanted steady carnal relations with me.
I feel angry when I think of the time I’ve wasted with him, but I’ve got to take some blame. The writing was on the wall 4 months into the relationship yet I stuck around for another 7 months to be sure, to work at it, to give him the benefit of the doubt, blah blah blah.
Don’t be like me and waste time. As soon as you realise that you don’t share critical things in common such as values and beliefs, get-a-stepping! Never mind if the sex is so good that it leaves you speaking in tongues! Because if you don’t share the same common IMPORTANT interests, the relationship is starting with strikes against it.
Wish I’d bailed out at that first whiff of trouble…
Once you move on and get a few months of true “no contact” under your belt, you will see that not only do you not really have that much in common after all, you will start to feel like you don’t want that much in common with him, because you will start to see him as the emotionally-bankrupt, mean-spirited a-hole he really is.
I also wanted to add that the list of “things in common” is usually much bigger when we first get involved with a UEM – and I think this is for two reasons – the first is that during the “hot” phase, the UEM will encourage you to talk about yourself then listen to you go on and on, telling him all the info he needs (ie: interests, values, tastes) so that he can use these pretend to be your soulmate and reel you in, because most women are skeptical to start with and we need some sweet talking and convincing. Second, once we’re reeled in by all that soulmate b.s. – and the cold phase starts – we start morphing and changing to be more like him so that we can prove how alike and right we are for him – so we start liking all the things he likes, do all the things he does, and basically try to be what he wants, which isn’t having common interests – it’s being a fool. I know – I did it. But believe me, follow NML’s no contact for real, and once he’s gone, and you do some work on yourself and start figuring out who you are, you’re going to actually start saying things in your head like, “actually, I don’t even like that show, sport, food, activity, etc…” because the REAL you will start emerging.
NML, you are so right about this. I thought it was wonderful that my ex and I had the common interests of film, literature, social justice, church and to some extent music. What we didn’t have in common was character. I simply believed that because I had found a church going man who was liberal politically we were a match made in heaven. Never mind that in the end he didn’t put his politics where his mouth was. What I mean by that was that he never stood up to his parents who disliked me because I am black. Anyway, character really is the most important quality to look for in a relationship. Someone who has character is able to take a stand, doesn’t run away at the first sign of adversity, looks at how their actions affect others, etc. Character counts!
Also, maybe one of the reasons some women emphasize common ground is because some men emphasize this. My “man” certainly did. In the beginning, he put a lot of effort into showcasing our similarities. I later came to realize he did this with many women. This is called “mirroring” and is a manipulation tool to make someone feel as if they have more of a bond with you.
You’re like the Emeril of Relationship Bloggers. BAM!!!
The things in common has always been a hard one for me, and actually is to this day. My ex-husband and my more recent EUM had alot of interests in common with me that really kept me hanging onto them. The ex-EUM- we’d read the new york times together sundays, we both loved the book review section and both loved browsing for hours in bookstores, we both enjoyed museums, travel and in fact we travelled together alot. We did movies together and theatre. These are all things that are important to me. I did the same with my ex-H. With my ex-H we even shared a love of jazz.
I am not questioning the fact they sucked as relationship partners nor do I want them back. But here is the hard part for me, where I continue to stumble.
i’ve written all over this site about the ongoing frustrations I’m having with the people pleaser guy I’m with now, and with whom I am close to breaking up with. Unlike other EUM, this man really wants a relationship with me. He has both feet in. He wants to make me happy and will do just about anything he can, like re-wire my lamp,, cook me dinner, run my errands, to make me happy. He even went out and bought a book on menopause (because I”m in it) and how to give a woman multiple orgasms, because he thought I’d want that etc. He has wrapped himself up in wanting to please me in every way.
But here is the thing, and Natalie, this is where I get confused. I have one foot out. Yes, he is the “opposite”, as in what you wrote about a few days ago.
But I’ve given this more thought too. Because we do not share any of the above described interests, that I did in fact share with my EUM, I find this guy boring as a stump. This new guy rarely reads, rarely watches TV, rarely listens to music, doesn’t have a clue what movies are playing, isn’t into travel , isn’t into anything at all I’m into. I know that these are things I can do with a woman friend. But geesh, if he isn’t into any of that, what do I have with him? Whats left? Yes, I can talk for days about relationship issues, or about my kids, or friends, and he’ll endlessly listen….. but isn’t there more to a relationship than having someone please me and listen to me? He says he is just a simple guy…… So I struggle with this stuff alot. He is a sweet,s imple guy, yes he is intelligent, he has a brain. But I am just not attracted to him because he has no passions, we share nothing. he’d do all my interests with me because he would do anything with me, but he doesn’t share them.
Today, before reading your post which is so on point with my thoughts, I was actually thinking that at least Mark, the EUM, shared those interests. He was an asshole, but we could have fun doing those things.
So where is the balance point? Don’t we have to share some stuff besides a commitment to a relationship in order to have a relationship to commit to?
Confused!!!
Wendy, of course there should be more common interests than commitment.
Why are you sweating about Mr. Pleaser? You say nothing nice about him except he has a brain, you are worried way to much in my opinion about him. Cut him loose and work on yourself first, he is not the last man you will meet.
Make it about YOU for once, not a man.
“He may well be an assclown, but the reality is that what you believe is your common ground is not his common ground.
It is not up to you to decide what you both have in common because if it worked so well, the relationship would not be floundering.
You’re actually projecting your perception of the relationship and for instance, your common interests, plus undoubtedly what you feel for him onto him.
But ultimately, they’re not his interests or feelings, hence you no longer have anything in common”
OH NML, you’ve done it again. This one hit me between the eyes. How often I did that, thought that, and di not understand exactly what you were saying here…
This has been (another one) of my hardest lessons.
To understand that what I value does not necessarily have to be at all what he values.
And that if he doesn’t value a relationship with me as numero uno in his priorities, and SHOW me as well as tell me that he consistently values and respects and loves me… nothing else matters.
I’ve broken my own heart by blindlt thinking we were so perfect for ecah-other. I couldn’t understand why he preferred an alcoholic over me when I didn’t srink. I couldn’t understand because I wanted to force my fantasy of my idea of our perfect life onto him..
I never DID know him. H edidn’t want me to and I hung on to hope instead of facing reality IMMEDIATELY and then not taking it personally.
i need to spell check. Badly. I apologize. I am literate, truly I am. augggggh !!!
Astelle, thank you for your bluntness. I’m working on doing what you think I should do because I know its the right thing to do. He is a nice guy and I am settling because of all the wrong reasons, I may not meet anyone else who would want me because I’m such a loser, maybe my gut is wrong and he is a great guy and I don’t see it because I”m such a loser….. etc.
Question- this doesn’t belong here on this particular posting but its on my mind…. where in the equation of a healthy relationship, does chemistry belong? I have no sense of chemistry with this guy…. I know my “type” is the EUM so I won’t write about “type:,but should I be concerned if I feel no chemistry?
maybe I’ll go post this on a different post….. would love hear back from everyone on this!
Wendy
I AM CHANGING! I AM GROWING! I’M FINALLY LEARNING!
who cares if we don’t like the same music, if we don’t read the same books, if we don’t like the same movies?
Honesty, dignity, respect, reliability, take on life: these are the things now important for me. I’ve learned my lesson. I’m exploring to make sure he shares all these things with me before “investing”.
i’m sorry if i don’t make sense, I’m a bit hype.
Wendy, don’t say you are a loser, please! I’ve got no solution but… beating yourself up for wrong choices won’t help you. YOU ARE NOT A LOSER!
I’ve stopped dating for a few months just to learn who i am, what I like, to regain some sense of self, to fall in love with myself, to feel the chemistry with myself and when this process is complete mabye I will start feel the chemistry for the right reason with people that share this appreciation of me.
You are not a loser, and even if you think you are, start telling yourself that you are not and it will become the truth.
good luck
I have been reading this website for quite some time but have never submitted. I am quite sure I have been dating the type of guy you describe but found myself last night thinking just that “but we were so perfect for each other!” and “how does he not miss that?”. When we were together all he could talk about was how amazing I was, how there was no other woman like me. I do not hear from him anymore, HE has cut contact but I have persued speaking to him to no avail, he simply does not respond to me at all and it’s odd because our break up went smoothly (he broke it off with me) and then he all of a sudden turned on me after wanting to be friends.
I understand what you are saying about not having “me” in common but it’s hard when I have met “nice guys” who don’t seem to want to do all the things that I do, but this guy did and seemed to enjoy them when with me. I keep wondering “has he just replaced me so quickly with a woman who will do all the activities we shared together and who has my whit, etc.?”
Also, I was clingy and needy and chased him around and so while I keep trying to read your posts and remind myself that he blew “hot and cold” I am wondering if the rest of you have beat yourself up wondering if he was actually a nice guy but he turned into this monster because we become so scary when our fears of being left kick in? It’s a chicken or the egg argument for me… was he great and then I started freaking out about losing him and that’s when this started or did I start getting crazy at which point he started running away?
I am doing my best not to remember him as all good but he was this energetic, upbeat person who always wanted to be adventuring together and now I am afraid he is sharing that with some woman who is confident, and independent who may have him feeling not so scared the way my overbearing ways likely left him feeling. I can’t stop blaming myself.
I have a massive fear that I will not find someone like him again and that I blew it with all of my insecurities… the fact that he has no need to speak with me only reminds me that he has no need for me and how unattractive I became. While everyone else says as soon as contact stops they come crawling back, I have disappeared for weeks and not heard a word from him. Apparently all my good traits are not valued by this person and it makes me feel entirely disposable. Do they not get back out there and find dating and meeting someone with comnmon interests challenging like the rest of us?
Chemistry is very important to me as well as a good character. I don’t care too much about Looks, will never again accept addictions of any kind.
Without the chemistry I wouldn’t go on that 2nd date.
NML, Your posts always help me – in one way or another. The ones from yesterday and today come at a good time for me.
I have posted on here for a while and every time I’m back and forth, up and down about this relationship w/the EUM. I am finding that the struglle I have with him is a direct reflection of the struggle going on within myself.
I had gone over 30 days with NC and he came back around. I let him in again and it has been “good” for 3 whole weeks! What little thing did I do to end it this time? Well, we were at his house watching a movie and out of nowhere he throws in a comment about one of my favorite songs being one he sent his ex-girlfriend after they broke up. Uh … I admit, I am not one to take the dart out when someone throws one at me and it hits directly in my heart. So, I got quiet and after a while got up to leave – whereupon he asked what was wrong. When I told him that I’m tired of her name coming up all the time he got irate. He told me I was making a big deal out of nothing (was I?) and to “GET OUT”, then he called me a stupid *hit and slammed the door in my face.
So we are not speaking to each other and in desperation I have come back to this web-site to read the wisdom that you give to us. My struggle continues as I wish this mean person would speak to me again. He has pulled away and here I am wanting him back? WTH? This is indeed a struggle within myself. The EUM is not the only one who is “damaged goods”, it seems. I just put up a better front than he does.
Thanks for listening.
Holy Crap Natalie.. You just hit the nail on the head with me… That’s all I can say.. I’m speechless.. Here I am pining thinking.. “But we liked doing the same things!..Reading the newspaper and Sunday Morning Edition on Sundays..”But when I really look at it.. I did what HE wanted.. which somehow morphed into what I wanted.. and then I became so brainwashed into thinking it’s what I LIKED TO DO! I mean come on!! I don’t WANT to spend every weekend at Macys looking for Bargains in the Mens Department!!” UGH!! Thanks for this.. I needed it.. a Virtual SLAP that is MUCH needed!!! Thanks All!!! You have become a very important part of my healing…
Keri, does he also clip coupons on Sundays?? Shops a lot?
Astelle…GET OUT!!! YES!!! HOLY MOLY!!! I thought it was SO CUTE… that when i ended it.. I got the Sunday paper so I could clip coupons.. HA!! I’M LAUGHING!!! yea.. a tightwad EUM! Shops A LOT.. and.. not ONCE in two years…did he say.. “Keri.. you look nice” but CONSTANTLY bought new clothes and took me to watch him try on stuff.. OH MY GOSH!!!
I listen to what all of you say… I did a lot of that stuff and took on his traits and activities. But stuff like “he never said I looked nice” I keep wondering if I was dating a nice guy but I was just scary because he wrote me emails all day long, texted me to say he missed me when he went away, always said I looked really nice, took me to dinners… What I felt was wrong though was that he was never affectionate, never cuddled because he said it was too hot, he would disappear at times (for say 24 hours) or I would just text and he would say he didn’t get it… And I think he lied about where he was. But I also had trust issues and so I’m worried that i was just paranoid and in reading about attachment issues and stuff it says that women like me are always looking for more and more intimacy. I jsut felt he never wanted to be touching me, rarely wanted to have sex, and so I think he was an EUM but I can’t say for sure and worry it was all me.
Hey Dazed.. Sorry to say this but EUM’s come in ALL kinds.. some of them have learned what works enough to skate by… Truth is.. these guys are probably not bad people… but just like us… they have their issues. My EUM never touched me either..I would grab his hand if we were walking somewhere and after a second he’d let go… we rarely had sex too.. Just because he said nice things sometimes.. doesn’t mean that you should go with your gut… Did you FEEL full?.. Answer me this..
Did being with him, more than none.. feel like COMPROMISE or SACRIFICE? If you picked SACRIFICE.. you have to walk away. Sorry as much as it hurts like hell.
Hi Nilondonor,
I completely agree with you. Certainly those are qualities that we all hope to find in a man. My question is, what else though? Isn’t it also important to share some interests too so you have something in common on which to build a relationship? Obviously a relationship can’t be just about shared interests and the man is an EUM loser with none of those good qualities. But aren’t we hoping for a combination there? Shared interests and good gualities as a human being? I have a nice man in my life now who is a nice boring man. Boring because we don’t share interests. If we sit around together after dinner, and I don’t bring up a topic, we can be pretty silent because he has no interests in common with me. But he is gentle, caring, giving, etc. and when I say boring, I don’t mean lack of drama… I mean as a human being, because he isn’t interested in the things that turn me on, in the things that fire me, we don’t have alot to say to one another.
What do you think?
Astelle, thanks for the comment about needing chemistry. And here is the add on to what I was just saying. I agree 100% that chemistry isn’t necessarily about appearance. It can grow when there is something about that other that is a turn on, his passions, his intensity, his focus. But if the guy is caring and giving, intelligent, sweet and thats it, and I have to do everything else alone because he isn’t interested (isn’t interested in reading, art, music, film, theatre…. ) than what is the basis of the relationship?
What makes a relationship a good one? How do you know you have one if you have one? What is chemistry?
good grief…..
wendy
Keri,
Thanks for your input. This is not to offend you but it makes me mad when people say they are probably good people. One thing I have tried to remind myself in forgiving myself was that, while I was clingy, needy, anxious, I was not mean, or dishonest. My intentions were always well meant and I did not set out to hurt anyone. I do no think these guys can say the same. At first I thought well he is a nice guy he is just scared and hurt… but really then you say that or you get out. But you don’t lie, run off with other women, avoid someone AND THEN when they confront you on it tell them it’s their fault they “had to avoid you” because you are needy and desperate. I was somewhat similar with my ex boyfriend before this but my behaviour was not as exagerated as he was quite good to me. When we broke up he felt overwhelmed but he was honest and said so and to this day we speak and our friends because there was never a question. A friend of mine recently said that if my EUM were normal he would not have had this manic break up with me where he loved me and still wanted to be with me and be friends but then the next day told me where to go when I attempted to keep up with what he had said. I agree they have issues similar to ours in that they can’t have healthy relationships, but being demeaning, cruel and dishonest makes me think no this is not a good person. Although you are right, I am getting defensive even with you because what I want is to know that this will not change and he will not be “better” with the next one and treat her well if she is not messed up like me.
And do not apologize… it doesn’t hurt like hell to face this I want to confront that I was not happy. The problem is all I can remember is being happy with him. I keep thinking if he would just be how he was when he was around we’d be great! And everyone keeps saying “think about all the mean stuff he did” I can’t because it just makes me feel awful and hurt and why did he have to be like that. I can’t see it as “he is a jerk” I think “I wasn’t good enough for him to be better to me.”
I like your “full” question. I can’t explain it but I remember him referring to me as his g/f very early on… he wanted commitment, etc. But then, I always said to him “I don’t feel like your g/f for some reason.” I used to bring him leftovers and he’d say “thanks” like I was some stranger bringing him food as if he didn’t know what to do with this kindness. I used to watch him when out socially and just see him as sort of cold. His independence was so tangible like he was just disconnected from other people. He has this energy about him that was intoxicating and yet, it’s like the smile doesn’t reach the eyes type. I have a hard time articulating it because it wasn’t something I could prove but my gut just felt that this person didn’t connect. He was present, cooked for me, wrote me lovely long emails about me and how amazing I was and how he wanted to be with me but when around him it’s like all those words could not translate into any tangible emotion.
Dazed… You’re right… I stand corrected.. I want to believe that deep down they’re just lost and misguided souls.. who don’t know any better.. but you’re right.. they are just probably just heartless fools who make themselves feel better by hurting someone else. Thats what I call Sociopathic behavior!
I try to come from a place that all of us are just little lost children.. aching for our mommies and daddies.. to hold us and tell us things are going to be ok..and sometimes out of that place we act the way we do… lost and trying to hold onto whatever there is.. even if it isn’t the healthy kind. Ugh.
Still boggles me..
Keri, that is too funny!! How about buy one, get one FREE??? Has he ever taken you to a restaurant with a buy one, get one free coupon??
Dazed.. I resonate with what you wrote “His independence was so tangible like he was just disconnected from other people. He has this energy about him that was intoxicating and yet, it’s like the smile doesn’t reach the eyes type.”
Man.. you just described my EUM as well. He was a jack of all trades with everyone else… Sports.. Politics.. little bit of this.. little bit of that.. he knew a little of everything.. my friends liked him.. they were convinced we were good for each other.. and I smiled and put on a good show but inside I was lonely and THIRSTY for him to tell me SOMETHING about how he felt about me… or to touch me. I would sit and cry and look him in the face and say “How do you feel about me?” and he would look away to avoid my tear strewn face and say ” I don’t know.” I DONT KNOW??? WHAT? So yea.. Emotionally he was withdrawn.. like he was told to “Keep his hands to himself” but EMOTIONALLY all his life. You know what I mean? If I showed you a picture of he and I.. he never really smiled.. it was a half attempt.. so yes.. I totally know what your saying…
Rambling.
My mother sent me an article from the paper a few months back and it was about making your list about what you want in a partner and sticking to it… at the time I thought how unromantic. I want passion, I want a man to sweep my off my feet. My EUM was amazing at this… he was adventurous. Yes I took on a lot of his activities but partly because I would have never done it without him pushing me and I miss him now thinking that I could have learned more.
However, I also realized that his adventurous side is his inability to sit still, he doesn’t pay his bills, he can’t seem to just enjoy life and I think it’s also because he knows he’s lacking in other areas but knows chicks will think he’s super cool if he can jump out of planes or whatever.
What the list made me realize is it doesn’t have to be unrealistic but it grounds you. It means you are not going into the next thing thinking “ya sure diving off this bridge may be something I would enjoy.” It’s tough because you need to remain open to new things of course but I realized with my EUM I had set no boundaries and this not only extended into sure I can do that if you like but it also meant when something didn’t feel right I could not stand up for myself. He used to disappear for a bit and I would say “this is not ok” and he would turn it around and say that I was clingy and didn’t undersatnd healthy space in a relationship so I would say yes, yes that could be true of me. MAKE YOUR LIST… it’s not about shaping a man it’s about shaping your boundaries and establishing what feels right with you so that the next time someone questions what you like, or what feels good you have your reference point, it was preestablished and won’t let you be manipulated by someone else to get their way.
Great post. In the early stages of getting to know someone, it’s always easy to notice attraction, chemistry and things in common like – we both like to ski. And if the guy (or girl) is charming and witty, that tied in with attraction is often a recipe for having someone think there is more of a solid foundation than actually exists.
If you truly want a healthy, functional relationship that has a chance at progressing to commitment (marriage or otherwise), your partner must share an openness and desire for that type of relationship.
If he doesn’t share that desire, then all the attraction and great sex in the world won’t change his mind.
For me, I have a rule that once I realize he doesn’t share that goal – either with respect to me specifically, or with anyone he might date – then I exit. Even if he enjoys skiing, makes me laugh, is a hard worker, is considerate, smart, etc, etc, etc….
The tough part is when you meet a man that does want to get into a committed relationship and he fawns all over you but you don’t feel the same way. That is what I am going through right now. I am not going to continue seeing him. Either we truly are not well suited for one another and he has a crush on me, or possibly I am still unavailable and have some more work to do.
Awareness is half the battle, but I’d really like to get to the other half!
Hi Ashley,
I’d love to talk to you more about your decision to leave the guy who wants the committed relationship and is fawning all over you and you don’t feel the same way. If you’ve read or found my posts, thats exactly what I’m going through right now. I’m trying to figure out if the fact he wants commitment and is a nice guy is enough or does there actually have to be some spark, some chemistry and some shared interests upon which to base this committed relationship. Can you say why you don’t feel the same way? I keep thinking my nice guy is Mr. Dull, but I find it all so complex and confusing.
wendy
I have been an advocate of dating someone who has the same values as you do. That is the only way in which you can have a happy and sustainable relaitonship.
But that does not go to say that you need to date someone who is exactly like you either.
Because think of it like this … If you were dating someone who has all the same strengths and weaknesses that you do … then how would you be able to grow and get anywhere
Don’t you notice in healthy long term relationships a very bubbly girl will be paired with a guy who is quiet reserved and steady?
Usually when i ask them about this, their response is … he is my rock, he keeps me grounded because I’m always up in the air.
Yes you need to have the same values as your parter, but you dont have to be exactly the same =)
Hot Alpha Female
http://www.hotalphafemale.blogspot.com
I feel weak today like calling him but after reading this I won’t..
Funny you said buy a ticket and watch him do stand up cos he really was a stand up comedian lol…. I did watch him but didn’t have to buy a ticket …
Ladies I have very big news… I ran in to my EUM last night and we ended up talking for 2 hours. Now I know I should cut contact but this brought me MAJOR closure, well to an extent.
He is now sleeping with a woman 10 years his junior… I am young but this puts her in her early 20′s. He told me that she does not want a relationship either so it’s great they just have a “mutual” agreement.
While I am ecstatic to hear that nothing has changed with him, and boy did his true colors come out last night (he was just cocky, and mean and suddenly this guy that was just out for sex and nothing else which he always was very against) the part that I have trouble with is how do they do it?! Being single is hard, I meet people and they don’t all like me. He is relatively attractive, although i was not attracted to him when I met him. I know his game, I know how smooth and charming he is but really one month after me and you can just walk into a bar and find some girl. He also never went to bars, or had a group of friends to go out with so I keep thinking how did he just suddenly go out and find this new girl and that she just fell for all his lines. I mean obviously while he tells me he has made it clear to her it’s just sex, we all know he’s probably not saying this to her at all. But this guy never even wanted to sleep with me that much and here he is a month after me saying “I have needs and I am single so of course I was going to go find someone else.” I had no idea for a semi good looking guy that finding another fallback girl would come so easily.
Can anyone add anything to this? I mean it’s great news for me nothing has changed and this person is in fact worse than I thought. But I do have this pain about how easy it is for him to move on and that his charms worked on someone else.
Dazed, how do you know this girl exists??
Dazed.. same with mine.. I left and now he’s in a serious relationship with someone else… Just got a sinking feeling. thinking he’s going to take her home for Thanksgiving. Ugh..
Dazed.. your comment yesterday really spoke to me..”he can’t seem to just enjoy life and I think it’s also because he knows he’s lacking in other areas but knows chicks will think he’s super cool if he can jump out of planes or whatever.”
These guys can’t sit still long enough to realize that they have some issues they have to work on… I’m sure somewhere inside there they know they are pretty messed up.. but NO.. they don’t want to look at that stuff.. they want to add another layer of dysfunction on top… and they put on the charm… and get someone else sucked into believing that they can be “the one” if THEY try hard enough.. wait long enough or believe they can change to adapt…
Sad but true.. The answer is for us to focus on US!!! My aunt said to me. “Why are you crying over a man who is NOT crying over you!!” Very true.. Time to put my energy on something that is worth my time!
I think we cry over them because they are not crying over us. I mean this guy replaced me with this girl in no time who he says he does not want for a life partner because she is “not successful enough.” Anyhow the point is, what hurt about it is that all the good qualities I brought were not valued and now the post on common ground really sinks in. I thought he thought I was the most amazing woman he had ever met (educated, successful, active) but they just point those things out to convince you how great you are to stay with him, but this new girl might not hike, run or whatever and I will think so why is he with her? Because she likes him, the common ground is a love of him!
So yes I am trying not to cry over someone who does not care about me, but it’s hard when you did and the reality hits you that you never mattered to them at all. I am just trying hard to remind myself this has nothing to do with my good qualities not being enough, but that this is their issue and they are not looking for good qualities, all they want is for you to love them and that’s enough for them until they tire of it and you want something in return.
Astelle, I did contemplate this actually because he would love nothing more than to know that I would be jealous and to chase after him. I feel she likely exists because I do not think he can be alone and really needs a woman to boos his ego (narcissistic supply one person called it) Perhaps you are right, knowing that he is making up women to make me jealous would make me happy to no end
Either way, whether she exists or not, whether his charms are working or not, they are just that. He flat out said to me that he still wants no relationship and can’t commit so I did find comfort as my fear has been that it was all me and I had mistaken this man and really he was good and I blew it. NO! In fact, I am shocked how much he showed his true colors last night because I am surprised he would so willingly admit his agenda to me. Considering I felt he might try to come crawling back, admitting that he is using some young girl to me is odd.
Hi Wendy –
Thanks for your comments. You asked me: “Can you say why you don’t feel the same way?”
Well, I can honestly say that I do not find this man physically attractive at all. Not at all. When I imagine myself kissing him I cringe. And when I am sitting near him, I do not feel like I want to be close. My body language says exactly the opposite. And this is only on the second date.
I also don’t like his personality. He’s very low energy. He’s a kind man, but I find him dull.
He definitely tries to establish things in common with me like exercise, having a personal trainer, and liking to cook. But one look at his physique and I know we do not have anything in common in the exercise department.
I absolutely have a soft spot for men that can smile and laugh with ease and are charming. This however has gotten me into trouble in the past as I have fallen for “players” that do all of this – but are also doing it to everyone else – I’m not really special to them.
There is someone in my life right now that has the qualities I look for but he’s doesn’t appear to be a player. And he even seems a little nervous around me. We’ve only gone on a couple dates but I will be seeing him in a few weeks when he comes to my city (he lives in my hometown a couple hours away).
However, I am still getting to know him and fear he may be another EUM.
I completely recognize I may still be unavailable myself and I should give the man I don’t like more chances. But I honestly feel like I would be wasting his time.
Luckily, I seem to be meeting new men all the time. However, it just seems like I meet a lot of men in their mid-40′s that are eternal bachelors.
I feel like love, like, crushes, getting to know someone, should be easy. When there are lots of roadblocks – either put up by them or you – it’s a signal to move on. Communication can help you understand the roadblocks – but it rarely moves them.
So, what to do? I’ve been thinking of signing up on match.com again, but I have never had great experiences there. But it would keep me actively searching. It’s very easy to grow old single where I live. I see it happening to a lot of women around my age. You get overly picky, and spend time having drinks and dinner with your girlfriends complaining that there are no good men out there – and it’s a self-fufilling prophecy. That’s why I feel like if I sign up on an internet dating site – I will at least be DOING SOMETHING to try to meet a partner with whom I am compatible that wants a healthy relationship.
Does that make sense? If anyone has any advice or thoughts, please let me know!
just wanted to check the box so I get notified of comments.
Keri, how do you know he is in a relationsip with someone else?
Why do you say it is “serious”?
Because he’s a serial monogamist. BIG red flag that I didn’t really pay attention to back then is.. we started dating a month after he broke up with his previous 3 yr relationship… so yea.. I know how it went when he and i were dating.. together all the time.. etc.. so yea, they’re serious. We also lived together until a bit after we broke up..(that’s a long story) part of me wishes him well.. hopes he’s happy now.. and part of me is the green monster of jealousy that he is giving her what he couldn’t (more like wouldn’t) give to me. Ugh.
I’m kinda sick of myself.. I’m not a dumb person.. relatively self-aware.. Why do I still care for someone who doesn’t and didn’t care enough about me? That is what I cannot get about myself… If he only knew how much energy I was “feeding” him.. like a freaking full time job this has become.. and he doesn’t DESERVE it!
That’s what I don’t get.. WHY? Why do I even care? Seems so simple. I feel like that Jr. High Schooler who can’t “just GET OVER IT!”
Keri, I cannot stress enough that this guy is not giving this woman anything but the illusion of the relationship. While I do not want you to obessess of details of your time together, he did the same with you at the start no? So if he does it with her it’s the same pattern. I am sure my EUM is calling this new girl up all the time and being at her beck and call too. It’s the carrot and the stick game… reel them in and then beat us over the head with the stick. You are thinking that in doing these things that he might now have genuine emotion behind it. HE WILL NOT. He is not going to suddenly become loving. They are good at “doing” stuff… picking you up, taking you out, cooking for you, introducing you to their mothers. They know what it takes to get a woman interested but just because he is taking this woman home does not mean that when she says “I am not feeling well can you get me some soup” that he won’t suddenly be busy. The things they do for us are about meeting their needs of getting us to like them and have nothing to do with doing things simply for us. Start thinking about what you would really do for someone you cared about? I remember when my EUM said “sorry to hear you are sick wish you were better so you could come hike with me!!!” I realized then, while I always felt special to be taken off to his secret places to adventure, it was still suiting his needs. But the minute I asked for something in return that interrupted his agenda he was out.
So you can imagine or even know what this man is doing for this new woman, but know in your heart and through your experience what he is really doing and have faith that it’s no different. He will not change over night and suddenly fall in love with this woman and be the man he never could be for you.
Thank You Dazed.. I feel better. Again.. I’m not a dumb person.. this seems SO simple… why can’t I just say “meh.. the hell with him and NOT think about him?” I really don’t get it..
I think it’s because I don’t love myself enough to feel like i deserve better.. so I prostrate myself to someone who validates my own feeling of lack of self worth.
Ok.. I’m done writing a while.. need to focus on ME!!!! Thank You all.. You have been wonderful!!!! SUCH an amazing help…
Hi Ashley,
gross.Just reading what you wrote about the guy you’re seeing, the Nice Guy, makes my skin crawl. Its the exact same experience I am having with my Nice Guy/People Pleaser. And I’m going on four months with this one. I am not physically attracted to him either, he is dull. He is super nice but doesn’t have any real interests other than being a really nice person. He works at home, doesn’t make much money, which is ok, no one does around here, but he is just, nice. We share no interests, he would do any of the things I am into with me because he wants to be with me. I am into reading, film, theatre, art, music, shopping, travel. he is content to sit at home on his computer 24/7, and work, read his trade magazines, and think of what to cook me for dinner. All he ever invites me to do is take hikes with him or to come over to his place and he’ll make dinner> He constantly says he loves me.
I have worked and worked trying to get him to get him to express his wants and interests and likes and dislikes. He just doesn’t have any. So even tho I strongly believe that chemistry can evolve over time, even if the physical attraction isn’t there to begin with, there is no chemistry here. He has no passions, and when I am with him, I feel glazed over. Seriously, if I am quiet, he rarely knows how to initiate a conversation. And this is an intelligent, nice person who is a good dad and a responsible human being. Yes, he has two feet in the “relationship”, we share similar values, he is caring, and tries very hard to please me.
And I”m just feeling distance towards him.
I would love a charming, witty,urbane, sophisticated man with a good sense of humor. I thought my ex-husband was like that and he became a huge assclown. He was followed by the mega heartbreaker EUM of two years.
My people pleaser is so dull and its not due to lack of drama, its him.
I just don’t know any more.
I don’t know where you live but go ahead and do match. I did meet my EUM on it but my sister met the guy she is living with on it and he is super nice. I live in the middle of nowhere and there are very very very few guys on it in my age group who have an education and are into anything close to what I am into. I need to move to a bigger city but can’t due to living with my youngest kid who has one and a half more years of high school left. So I feel stuck.
I hope you live in a larger place and have more potential men on match. Being on it cannot hurt or be bad. At the worst, you just won’t meet anyone.
(I take it back, the worst would be meeting an EUM and getting involved.) But there are a few ok real folks on it and maybe you can figure out who is who. I’d give it a try.
So are you still trying to hang in there with your Nice Guy or did you dump him yet? I still can’t decide what to do with mine, I know i’m not treating him nicely though and I feel badly about it.
Write back! Wendy
Keri I agree with you I am having such an awful day despite the fact that what I found out last night should set me free. But if I am perfectly honest I am jealous of the new woman knowing what attention she is getting, the places he is taking her and wishing that he still saw me the way he did. I should be happy that I am not her, that I am single and out looking for something better and someone more deserving of me… that I am aware of who he is now and that I do not need his validation. But that’s just it we lack the confidence in ourselves and continue our search of outside validation so we do envy the woman after us, despite the post that we should not, because we know what highs they are experiencing. What we do not have faith in, is that they too will experience the awful low that we have now. I do not mean this in a horrible cruel way but it will come to these women too unfortunately. My EUM saying “and then I will get rid of her” once this girl asks for a relationship was just so cruel and so cold. I feel sick to my stomach today that he likely had these same emotions towards me.
Also, he asked that we never rehash our relationship ever again. They run, do not want to rehash, he told me I should just move on. Try not to ruminate but also do deal with teh pain because unlike them we will heal they are just shutting down and moving on and it’s how they end up where they are never stopping to assess their behaviour or emotions– if they have any.
Dazed and Keri,
I so empathize. I still think about my EUM even though I literally haven’t laid eyes on him for 7 months. I live in a small town and nearly every day I wonder if today will be the day I’ll run into him at Safeway or somewhere. Or if I’ll run into his kids or ex-wife, all of whom I knew. I was super close to his daughter. Or if I’d run into his family members, I was really close with his folks, and brother. But I never run into any of them. I still fantasize that one day he’ll call and beg me to come back and let me know he realized what a terrible mistake he made ending the r/s or something….. I was really attracted to him, we had a zillion interests in common, and we lived together, sorta, for two years… My nice guy doesn’t hold a candle to him, at least in the area of “attraction”. I so miss that zing I felt with the EUM/assclown.
But what I wanted to say to you was my ex-EUM, when we did see one another the last time, when he came over to return some of my stuff, (7 months ago)- he told me he was doing great, had never looked back (at us), that the day I dumped all his stuff into his driveway he felt better than he had felt the entire time we had been together, that it was such a relief to be out of the relationship with me,,,, etc. he went back to on line dating the very night we broke up. Mind you, that was a week after my mom had died, and two weeks after my dog had died. He didn’t care. He just cared about himself. He was happy and let me know. He told me to enjoy my life and to be sure to get help because I had issues and needed help. Heof course, didn’t need anything except to get back out into the dating world ASAP, which he did.
Unbelievable.
I so empathize with how you are feeling.
Wendy
I have been a coward regarding my nice guy. After our second date he asked me out to lunch the next week. He called me the following Wednesay and left a voicemail. When I returned his call, I was going to tell him I wasn’t interested in seeing him and that I didn’t see it going any further. But I got his voicemail. He called me back mid-day Friday and left me another voicemail. I didn’t have it in me to call him on Friday late afternoon to say – I don’t want to see you anymore. Now – since he had invited me out to lunch for what is now – last week – and he hasn’t called this week – I think it’s safe to say it’s just died a natural death.
I really don’t think this was the best way to go about – I typically pride myself on being direct. But – as we had only two dates – I figured – my calling him up to announce I don’t want to see him again was a little presumptous.
As for you – I don’t know how you have managed being with someone you are that unenthused by for four months. I couldn’t do it. But – it does seem you’ve given it ample time to grow into something and it hasn’t.
I live in a big city – the biggest – nyc – and there are lots of guys on match. Some nice – some not so nice, some losers. I’ll give it one more shot. I think I have a pretty good EUM radar now, so hopefully this time I can work the online system a little bit better.
Good luck!
Hi everyone. I started reading this book called “Toxic Parents”. I am only on chapter 3 but so far this is a great book on explaining why I gravitate to relationships with EUM’s. Even though I always knew it had something to do with the relationship I have with my parents, this author puts it in a way I never thought about before. I haven’t gotten to the chapters yet on how to change these patterns but so far I highly recommend this book.
SuzieQ, I have also been reading up on attachment issues. There are a lot of medical journals out there. For me I am definitely anxiously attached to people but my EUM was definitely avoidant. Some women might also be avoidant, but I find the majority of us are more anxious which is why we gravitate to men who will only reinforce this by disappearing on us.
It’s great stuff and very helpful to read. For those of you who might feel you had good childhoods, as my relationship with my parents has always been quite good, while attachment issues do originate in childhood, they are further reinforced through other relationships in our adolescence and adulthood. So it’s still a helpful read.
Dazed, I also resonated very much with this: “His independence was so tangible like he was just disconnected from other people. He has this energy about him that was intoxicating and yet, it’s like the smile doesn’t reach the eyes type.â€
My ex was very very much this way. In the book “Smart Women, Foolish Choices” the author describes difficult men that should be avoided…he labels one The Clam for his complete inability to connect to, and express, feelings. I’ve never come across a more accurate description of my ex. I am in counseling to figure out how I got so sucked in to someone who demonstrated no depth or capacity for love. We ‘adventured’ together, and had a lot of surface things in common. But the original post here is very right: we didn’t have in common any of the foundational values that are necessary to hold together a healthy, loving relationship.
I miss, very much, our adventuring. We rock climbed, traveled, cooked, drank wine together. But conversation beyond these topics was stilted and I wound up feeling like he never truly saw me or cared about ME. I suppose that’s ultimately evident in his cheating (and non-remorse)…with a woman he’s still with some five months later.
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