So, the bottom line is: not all EUM are bad. This guy had enough respect for me to tell me that it’s not fair to me if he were to string me along, it’s not fair to me not to feel as special as I should, and it wouldn’t be fair to me if he were to make promises he couldn’t keep. I am still a bit of a mess but primarily because I am awestruck by his honesty and his respect for me. Once I get over being a mess, we will be great friends because we have so much in common. I am glad he did not let me fall in love with him and protected me from a heartbreak the way he did.

Higher education turns a lot of heads. The value of college, of advanced education, is how it *changes* how you think. You learn to question facts, whatever your course of study, to find answers for yourself.

And, like military service, this is a horrendous strain on relationships. Which contributes to neglecting your marriage. You aren’t ‘using’ your husband nearly enough to keep your attention focused on your life, your goals – or possibly even your studies.

Then there is texting. Instant chat, emails, phone calls, these all make horrible abuses of others an every day occurrence. It is *arrogant* to think that whoever we call, or text, or IM, is available – free of responsibilities for their time – for an exchange of messages. We are not all rich, indolent teenagers, texting out of boredom or gossip. Sending a message, or making a phone call, is a *request* for attention, or an *offer* of information. A reply at any time is a gift we need to be thankful for.

Unless you really *are* the Mommy and you are chewing out your kid. Which you really need to be doing face-to-face, anyway.

Did you really read what you just wrote? How you expected immediate replies, then argued about getting your way? How he felt you didn’t respect his privacy, or his obligation, his time, or whether he wanted to think things through before replying? This seems like your self esteem is pretty low – thinking more about respect for yourself and how you respect others might help bolster that.

Frankly, the best I can come up with would be to strengthen your marriage, and stop texting at all. Stick to written letters, and very brief phone calls. Use emails to conduct business or when needed for your studies. Consider a pet to focus your responsibilities and make your living quarters a home – and make some women friends.

Your value as a human, as a student, and as wife, are not tied up with who you engage in sexual congress with. Don’t look at the student body or your acquaintances in terms of ‘who do I have feelings for’ but ‘who could I be a friend with?’ For instance – how many classes with less than 20 students this term – can you list all their names? How about which ones share your course of study? Can you name the janitor in each building, and find the supplies closet? Who is head of your school? There is a lot of human contact available, at a casual or professional distance, that won’t threaten you, your values, or your marriage.

And if your marriage is over, please end it in honor, first.

I’ll probably find a better place to write about this. I finally broke up with the people pleaser Nice guy a few nights ago. I realized I hadn’t ended a relationship with a man since high school days and I’m in my 50s now.
It was really hard but I did it.
I have been thinking alot about what makes for good chemistry, good relationships etc. I realize now that there has to be some shared interests as well as two feet in, to keep the relationship going. I met a guy over the weekend who I’ve known a while. He is passionate over theatre, film, books, art, etc. I know that alone does not keep him from being an assclown. But assuming he is a good man, (big assumption) someone like that is someone with whom I could connect on many levels, physical, emotional and intellectual. I think a good relationship has to have some of all that.
The nice guy was boring and boring makes the relationship not work. It was a going nowhere thing because there was nothing about him that turned me on. So when I say no passion, it wasn’t just physical, but no passion mentally. He felt he could grow in the relationship since I was honest and always sharing with him my concerns about the limitations of him being a “nice” guy. But I saw I wouldn’t grow with him. No challenges for me. I was always “perfect” in his eyes. I could do no wrong and he never asked for anything from me. That spells boring.
It was a relief to end it.
But hard. At least I did it in a truthful, caring way, which is way better than the way these assclowns break up with us.

Wendy

If you don’t like a white plastic trash can in your kitchen, you throw a liner in it or give it away or trash it or stick it somewhere you don’t have to look at it. When you are shopping and notice a nifty wicker tissue cover, you don’t think to yourself, “Wow, that sure is nicer to look at than that white plastic trash bin in my kitchen!” You don’t think, “That pretty tissue cover would sure bring out that white plastic trash can in my kitchen.” And hopefully you don’t think, “I wonder what trash that white plastic trash can I through out is doing now?” Hopefully.

If you choose to watch August Rush, please let it be because that is what you wish to do with that period of time. Or take a walk, or read a book. Write a journal for yourself, or hop over to Christy’s Coffee Break and find a do-it-at-home part time business. Take in a book reading at a local bookstore. Do a survey of local theatre popcorns – pick a different theatre each time, buy a box of popcorn, and take it away – you don’t even have to watch a film there. Take in a community theater production, or other community event.

He isn’t in your life. But thinking about what he is doing, who he is with, what they are doing or whether either is happy – these are emotional bonds to him. Bonds you use to tie yourself to him, and to the past. You want to remember the best of those times, your joys and wonders and accomplishments and fears overcome. You need to learn what lessons from your experiences that will make the rest of your life better. But thinking about what he is doing, whether he thinks of you, these waste you and waste your life, and distract you from living.

What thinking about him and others does accomplish, is to keep your anger and thoughts of revenge alive. Now that you are on your own and don’t need that anger to redeem your life, it only gets in the way. Be wary, you don’t want to forget the reasons you aren’t together, you want to be ready, in an instant, to reject anything Bozo wants to try. But life is for the living, not the dead relationships.

Blessed be.

Sorry Did my bitter slip out? Whoops…

I’m not terribly in the know about my ex but yes, the less I know, the better. We have two mutual friends and I try hard not to hear anything about him but occasionally some info gets through. I wish we had no connections to each other because then I would be able to imagine that he was actually dead.

None of my friends or family thought he was any kind of prize. He is so coolly detached, stoic, and introverted that they never got to know him; and he never made much of an effort to get to know my people (whereas I got to know his people quite well – and I must say, his peeps loved me). Unfortunately, I misread his cool detachment also as self-control and independence – I didn’t see it as fear-based insecurity. I also didn’t see it as a sign that he skews toward schizoid personality disorder – I don’t think he actually has it, but he does exhibit a number of the signs. As one friend put it recently, they didn’t understand how someone as warm as me could be with someone as cold as him.

dazed, as far as the new woman goes, in some universal sense I get that she is putting up with the same behaviors I did. But I get these pangs of pain when I think of them together, doing the things that we used to do.

Just wanted to second what you said. And the book you mentioned sounds worth finding, since I regard myself as a smart woman who has made some really foolish choices. I really understand how you feel. My ex and I had so much in common. My ex-husband was a hot head and when I first met my EUM, his coolness radiated self control and independence, and that attracted me to him. Turned out we had everything in common too, books, music, art, travel, we vacationed and had a blast, movies- the whole thing. But he wouldn’t listen, or share and basically was anal, shut down, in control and controling. Everything had to be his way. Whatever. Now when I meet men, I still am looking for things we have in common because I realize now having shared interests actually is important. But its also important to find a loving, decent, human being. I consider myself SO lucky to not know what this man is doing these days. All my friends disliked him and my path and his do not cross. So I haven’t a clue. I’m sad that both you and Dazed are in the know about your ex’s.
Wendy

I try to remind myself that the irony is that I was dumped because I wouldn’t be a doormat. I am a very outspoken woman, certainly I fall into the category of talking too much, but not once I have I begged him back or wept to him. Instead I would tell him how he was a disappointment. This is not productive either, but I can say that I got left because I wouldn’t be submissive. He also told me yesterday that he left me because I was terrible in bed. I am of course obsessing over this today. He claims he is this fabulous lover… really? Great body and all but the guy has zero communication skills and since they are emotionally uninvolved they lack passion.

The other girl could be less anxious, less of a talker, not smart enough to pick up on the same cues we did. It’s quite possible their relationship could last for a long time IF she allows him to continue his behaviour but NOT because his behaviour is not there… it’s how much the next woman is willing to facilitate and put up with. Remember that not a lot of women are aware of what they want, need and many have low standards and are insecure. Look at all of us on here Either way, whoever or whatever she is… maybe she can just handle more crap and she too does not deserve better she thinks. I keep reminding myself of this. Maybe the girl he’s sleeping with now doesn’t notice that he is cold and uninvolved during sex she just stares at his abs and this makes her happy. I can admit that I was not involved either because my gut said don’t trust this guy, and so I never let any walls down either.

I wish I could call him up and say oh ya what makes you so great? But that’s done with now… remind yourself daily why you are great. Remind yourself that his harsh words do not invalidate you they do not tell you who you are (I am saying this for me too). And it’s really great that we have this site so that we don’t think we made a lot of this up in our heads. Thank you for reinforcing that I was not alone in picking up with the lack of emotion and detachment from all things human.

My ex was very very much this way. In the book “Smart Women, Foolish Choices” the author describes difficult men that should be avoided…he labels one The Clam for his complete inability to connect to, and express, feelings. I’ve never come across a more accurate description of my ex. I am in counseling to figure out how I got so sucked in to someone who demonstrated no depth or capacity for love. We ‘adventured’ together, and had a lot of surface things in common. But the original post here is very right: we didn’t have in common any of the foundational values that are necessary to hold together a healthy, loving relationship.

I miss, very much, our adventuring. We rock climbed, traveled, cooked, drank wine together. But conversation beyond these topics was stilted and I wound up feeling like he never truly saw me or cared about ME. I suppose that’s ultimately evident in his cheating (and non-remorse)…with a woman he’s still with some five months later.

It’s great stuff and very helpful to read. For those of you who might feel you had good childhoods, as my relationship with my parents has always been quite good, while attachment issues do originate in childhood, they are further reinforced through other relationships in our adolescence and adulthood. So it’s still a helpful read.

I really don’t think this was the best way to go about – I typically pride myself on being direct. But – as we had only two dates – I figured – my calling him up to announce I don’t want to see him again was a little presumptous.

As for you – I don’t know how you have managed being with someone you are that unenthused by for four months. I couldn’t do it. But – it does seem you’ve given it ample time to grow into something and it hasn’t.

I live in a big city – the biggest – nyc – and there are lots of guys on match. Some nice – some not so nice, some losers. I’ll give it one more shot. I think I have a pretty good EUM radar now, so hopefully this time I can work the online system a little bit better.

Good luck!

I so empathize. I still think about my EUM even though I literally haven’t laid eyes on him for 7 months. I live in a small town and nearly every day I wonder if today will be the day I’ll run into him at Safeway or somewhere. Or if I’ll run into his kids or ex-wife, all of whom I knew. I was super close to his daughter. Or if I’d run into his family members, I was really close with his folks, and brother. But I never run into any of them. I still fantasize that one day he’ll call and beg me to come back and let me know he realized what a terrible mistake he made ending the r/s or something….. I was really attracted to him, we had a zillion interests in common, and we lived together, sorta, for two years… My nice guy doesn’t hold a candle to him, at least in the area of “attraction”. I so miss that zing I felt with the EUM/assclown.
But what I wanted to say to you was my ex-EUM, when we did see one another the last time, when he came over to return some of my stuff, (7 months ago)- he told me he was doing great, had never looked back (at us), that the day I dumped all his stuff into his driveway he felt better than he had felt the entire time we had been together, that it was such a relief to be out of the relationship with me,,,, etc. he went back to on line dating the very night we broke up. Mind you, that was a week after my mom had died, and two weeks after my dog had died. He didn’t care. He just cared about himself. He was happy and let me know. He told me to enjoy my life and to be sure to get help because I had issues and needed help. Heof course, didn’t need anything except to get back out into the dating world ASAP, which he did.
Unbelievable.
I so empathize with how you are feeling.
Wendy

Also, he asked that we never rehash our relationship ever again. They run, do not want to rehash, he told me I should just move on. Try not to ruminate but also do deal with teh pain because unlike them we will heal they are just shutting down and moving on and it’s how they end up where they are never stopping to assess their behaviour or emotions– if they have any.