Throughout my life I’ve had various experiences that have impacted me and triggered some judgement of me (by me) and then later down the line, those experiences have had less of a hold on me. In retrospect I learned that the meaning of these difficult experiences changed when my perspective changed and in turn how I felt shifted dramatically and I was able to ‘let go’. I can go from feeling guilty, burdened or wounded to lighter, freer, happier.
When you change the meaning, you change the feeling.
If you consider those times when you’ve gone from platonic or not interested to feeling interested, it’s because something or a series of things have happened that you’ve presumed their interest from or you’ve taken the meaning of it to ignite your own interest. Sometimes the meaning is true because it’s self-evident – they showed their interest, you reciprocated or vice versa. Of course there’s times when the meaning isn’t the meaning – they might not be interested or you may have misjudged your own interest.
Recently as I’ve contemplated my own feelings from the fallout with my father and co, I homed in on a feeling that ‘shouldn’t’ be there but it was – guilt – and it’s put this whole ‘perspective thing’ to the test. It wasn’t abandonment (that ship has sailed a long time ago – you can’t do what’s already been done), it definitely was disappointment, there was some rejection which was actually more feeling unsupported and betrayed, and I’ve moved beyond feeling angry or frustrated. It was guilt.
I realised that even though it wasn’t an overwhelming feeling, I had felt some level of guilt in response to all of their reactions.
I felt like I had done something wrong, that I failed in an obligation, which is just downright ridiculous – this whole thing is about my father who hadn’t been around since I was very young (I have no memory of my parents together unless you count the tension at pickup and drop off for visitations) feeling that he should be walking me down the aisle because I’m his daughter, even though I was raised by someone else.
Rationally and logically I know that I shouldn’t have felt guilty and yet it would pop up and then I’d remind myself. The funny thing is that yeah they’ve all said stuff (or moaned about it and then I’ve heard it back through Chinese Whispers) but to be fair, this whole guilt thing has a lot to do with me because I am the one who somewhere along the line has taken some meaning to imply that I ‘should’ feel guilt. I don’t have to though. However a few days ago I got wind that someone else who fell out with them a long time ago is ‘back’. I was thinking about what happened there and the whole debacle and then it hit me: Er, this is pretty much the same thing that happened to you and to your brother, only it happened before you were born. Same characters, same dynamic, similar issues.
I’ve had to heed my own words – it’s not about me. It’s not about you. It’s personal in that it happened to me (or to you) but what has happened is not specific to me or to you.
Yes you have your experience with them but this is bigger than the situation or your involvement with them. There is this whole wanting to feel like we’re ‘bigger’ than, well, everything (I think it’s to validate our experience of them), and one of the ways we can make ourselves seem like we’re super-important is by blaming ourselves .
People don’t roll out different characters for different people and when you can look beyond your own situation and feelings, you can see that these people have ‘form’ for this or that even if the situations are different and they appear to have ‘better’ relationships with other people, the same problem factors like, for instance, lack of empathy, lack of support, betrayal, actions not matching words, responsibility dodging or whatever are still there.
Yes of course you would prefer not to be having a difficult time with them but don’t kid yourself and think that you’d be skipping through a happy clappy land full of butterflies and rainbows. You’re either suggesting that they’ve had a whole character change for you or after you (which would be pretty spectacular considering how much work goes into changing ourselves for ourselves), or, you’ve got to admit into ‘evidence’ that what you’re dealing with existed before you came along. You may have thought you’d get a better ‘deal’, you may have though that you’d be the exception, but you weren’t. It sucks, but at least when we recognise that we wanted something better than what was, it’s actually admission of the existence of the problems.
Recognising the pattern that stretches back for decades gave me a lightbulb moment and I instantly felt lighter. Oh it’ll take time to totally move on, but it’s funny how as one person bows out (me), someone else steps back in and the dynamic will be put to the test again.
The fact that we can languish on a rejection and ruminate for weeks, months or even years on end, or that we take the blame even when it’s not our fault, or we get stuck on regret, or feel abandoned, or can gradually bounce back again and feel happy is all about the meanings we take away from these experiences.
It’s very easy to ride with what you know. I used to tell myself that I was having an extended run of bad luck, that there was something ‘about me’ that turned available men into unavailable men, and that I just wasn’t good enough. I took these meanings from various different experiences and you know, I could have kept going with that and I’d still be riding the Mr Unavailable merry-go-round completely blind to what was really going on. Baggage Reclaim wouldn’t even exist!
Changing the meaning of something can give you the room to breathe and live. Entertain another perspective! Why make the meaning of something that’s not all about you, all about you and your worth?
Change the meaning, change the feeling. I’m living by BR’s ethos – reclaim you, offload your baggage. I already feel lighter. You can too.
Your thoughts?
About the Author:
Natalie Lue is the founder and writer of Baggage Reclaim and author of the books Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship and more. Learn more about her here and you can also follow her on Facebook and Twitter - @baggagereclaim .
Natalie (NML) – who has written 1092 posts on Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue.
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Since ending it with my unavailable ex I now see that under the relationship highs and devastating lows, I felt two prominent emotions throughout our dalliance:shame and guilt. Shame when I was with him and guilt when I was away from him.
I recently distanced myself from my unavailable father and, after an awkward run in with him at a family event, I realized I felt a disproportionate level of guilt for things being “bad” between us. And believe me he’s not making it any better. Instead of respecting my wishes for distance, he’s persuing me with thinly veiled and disguised proclamations that are really guit trips. Subtle: I almost missed the guilting until I read this and it confirmed my uneasiness.
Now that I think of it my unavailalbe ex took a victim stance in almost everything and made it out to seem as if he was such a nice guy and things just never quite worked out for him. Not true. He was a user who seduced and manipulated women so he could whittle down their self esteem and control them. Thank goodness I was able to get out. I now see his subtle ways of guilting and manipulating and am still dealing with feelings of guilt in regards to our dalliance. When a relationship doesn’t work out I’ll take all the blame and try and “fix” myself so as to make the relationship good enough. Truth is I can’t change the other party. I can’t make them be responsible and love me. I cannot. Sometimes all I can do is take a step back or many and walk away.
Thanks! I will keep visiting and reading and reading and reading. I know I need to kick this “addiction”. I am happy here because I feel like you can relate to me. Here we go!
It’s alright Rev. I’m still most comfy rockin a pair of levi’s the best (preferrably in stiletto’s with a dirrty big fat guit-ar) lol
I hope things go ok with the friends. I fronted one last night whose suddenly all snuggly with someone I had to totally cut out of my life for straight up tretchery a few years back. I stopped short of calling any ultimatums but I let it be known my frienship does not come free, or without strings attached. I do expect a measure of loyalty. This woman has been on welfare her entire life (she’s almost 50) & is now quite comfortable thanks to a recent inheritance but I can see the differences between us ‘grate’ at times.
I actually said to her, as we talked about another mutual aquaintence (also welfare dependent all her life, like her) ‘show me your friends & I will show you who you are’, before explaining my closest mentor is a social researcher (like I was before illness struck) & doing her PhD, another an author / psychologist, two others partner lawyers, another barrister & well,… you get my drift. I don’t put up with BS in friendships b/c the ppl I associate myself with are frankly all too busy, as too am I. I don’t think she quite got it, but I’m sure you do. The point is not snobbery but keeping things real. The busier people are the more pressure there is to cut the crap & keep & keep it real (which isn’t say there aren’t exceptions, but generally I find that successful people are more adept at assertiveness). So, go get em, Revo!! You rock chicky babe!!!
Meanings… Feelings…. I sat with deep heavy heart tonight… The ‘dead’ thing again… Thoughts of ‘him’… I’ve realised why there is no grieving… It’s not safe to yet… I’m caught up in a whole other battle for a certain time frame to come… Finally it makes sense… I AM frozen… Literally… I knew something was not right here… Everything is dark in this place until it is safe to feel again.. Nothing I can do except hang on….
Thanks to everyone who responded to my rather sad and frustrated rant about leaving a long term marriage and being self-trapped in “what if’s” about him. It was so exciting to get a response and very helpful and MUCH appreciated.
I was doing pretty well after I decided to end the marriage a year ago – very goal focused and energized and moving forward. Lots of stimulating work, projects, relationships, interesting travel, plans,a lovely new wardrobe in which to garb my great body…but was blindsided by being treated in a way I didn’t anticipate a few months later. I never ever expected the depth of my OWN reaction.
Ending a relationship after many many years in a positive way (my wish too) is complicated and there are lots of things to “deconstruct” even a shared business (yes, ouch). I never ever wanted something hateful because he isn’t/wasn’t mean at least not deliberately. He is an EUM not an AC. I do see that he is working on change in a real way now, not for me (because the marriage is over). As somebody said though, this can only help me in the future in terms of relationships with our kids, negotiations over business etc. That’s what I think on the best days.
However, I can see that I am still too invested in him, what he thinks and how he acts or what his future will be like. Need to acknowledge my grief and pass through it but re-find my motivation and self worth which seems to have been missing recently. Thanks again…you guys rule!!!
another spot on…perspective…time..space…will always change…but you have to get to the place of change that’s a challenge. Natalie…your a new melanium feminist
I’m writing this because I’m not in the best place and need some guidance if there is anyone out there…I was seeing a guy, he was fun and brilliant,I was emotionally unavailable anmd so was he. Perfect. But then he began to like me more, calling, texting, being around, inviting me out…it suddenly became something more and I liked it, I began to thaw and my feelings changed. As soon as he sensed what was happening, he backed off, said he doesn’t want to be a c*** again like he was in the past and told me he has nothing to give, doesn’t want a relationship. I have been fed up with men for the past 4 years so I burst into tears, he said he still wants to see me and asked to stay. He did, though nothing happened apart from a hug in bed. Somehow after that I was downgraded from possible gf to lover and he began to see me just for sex but when it suited him; usually drunk. When he stopped contact, I didn’t contact him either thinking he just needed space because I knew he had had a rough time with his ex although I didn’t realise their breakup was recent until much later. When I stopped being his lover because he wouldn’t respond to texts or calls, he said he was an ignorant c*** for ignoring me. I still stopped sleeping with him and instead thought we could remain friends because I enjoyed his company and I thought if he could just see that I’m not like the others…blah,blah,blah. The ‘friendship’wasn’t straight forward though – pushing/pulling/hot/cold/coming/going. Eventually I said I was seeing someone new, he didn’t like this so he told me he’s committed to me. I should add that he’s 37 yrs old so I thought that by now I was dealing with a man, not a boy. He wanted sex, we didn’t go all the way because he had pushed and pulled, hot and cold so much that I still couldn’t trust what he was saying was what he meant. Again he ignored me. I saw him out and his words were ‘the only reason why I said I was committed is because you were sitting on my face.’ When I told him how hurt that made me feel, his response was ‘you’re not 18 anymore.’ After that I avoided him completely but we bumped into each other months later and became more like ‘hug buds’ than f** buds’. He told me he’s selfish, he isn’t happy, love is being happy first and so I blame myself for sticking around and for the treatment he dished out, because he was being honest right? During this time he would sometimes put me down, suggest I was sleeping around and say ‘I left your money on the side’ after staying the night. I wanted to stay ‘mates’, but it was always me reaching out to him, trying to help him get a job, feed his ego, let him stay over, share a kiss (but only when he’s drunk because ‘kissing is too intimate’. I stayed away again to see if that might make him miss me and when I reappeared he said he had been looking for me, asking around etc and that he gets on better with me than any other person, but then admitted he has mixed feelings. By now I was fed up and only wanted to stay friends, but he said he wanted me to meet his children. Thinking this was a step forward, I agreed but after that he ignored me again. Some time later, I found out that he was staying at his exes for some personal reason and when I asked him if they were getting close he told me it’s taken him all this time to realise he doesn’t want her back. We had sex, although I told him not to, he did anyway and in the morning he acted as though I wasn’t there. It was about a month later that he admitted to sleeping with his ex ‘because she was lonely’- so he was sleeping with her, then me. To top it all off, he doesn’t use protection, which is another reason why I wouldn’t continue to sleep with him. (apparently he doesn’t know how to use condoms – at 37!). That same night he said I’m the kind of girl he goes out with (because I don’t sleep around), but by then I was exhausted from it all. I knew he would make a crap bf so I actually considered to just being lovers again because I knew the sex was good. (listen to me!) Anyway I asked him to do something for me for a change, thinking he would as I was always there for him but he let me down time and time again, so now I know I was little more than a distraction to him until he figured things out with his ex. I visted him recently because I’d sent him a horrible text telling him how I felt (thinking this was the end of it), but then I heard he’s depressed so in my drunken state I turned up to cheer him up and because I didn’t want us to completely fall out. His response? ‘We’ve had our time – people move on.’ My response? I scratched his car. Not the best move I ever made, it felt good at the time but now I feel bad and need to let go. Was he just an EUM or an AC? Was I the AC to put up with it all (I thought I was in love), and for taking it out on his poccessions? (I know it wasn’t right). I keep thinking he isn’t a bad man, he told me what he wanted, I was just stupid enough to accept his crumbs. When he knew I liked him, he stopped taking advantage sexually (apart from that one time) but adnmitted to ‘feeding off me’ in other ways. I need some closure on this because I’m beating myself up and am expecting you guys to do the same…so lets hear it…
Aw ((((Jemma)))) It feels rubbish, doesn’t it?
Long story short, he’s EU and he’s an AssClown and all the blowing hot and cold, hugging, disregard of your feelings, occasional aggression – all of it – is a really really common MO.
I know that it all feels really strange and unique and unfathomable, and that was the way that I felt about mine for a long time – I thought that it was just me, and that no-one else could possibly fathom the depth of our connection… nah, he was an AC too. And like yours, he was aware of it and understood that he didn’t want to be that way but was anyway.
The taking-advantage-in-other-ways is also pretty common, I think – I remember the first time I found this site I got an article about how people can use you for alsorts as well as sex. I hadn’t realised that – I thought that the fact that he tapped me up constantly for an ego-boost and a shoulder to cry on meant that we were Meant To Be.
It’s horrible. It wrecks your emotional wellbeing and mental health, and the way that you’re feeling (not that I’d condone scratching his car) is completely unsurprising and a completely natural reaction to it.
What would be UNnatural, though, would be to let it go on ANY LONGER – to put it bluntly, and I don’t swear often these days, it’s completely f***ed. And, if you want to be philanthropic about it, it’s the best thing for him too. He apparently doesn’t want to behave like this, yet he does with you. So stop letting him.
There Is No Way that it will ever work out. Stop chasing it and make the decision, in yourself, to get out of this horrible awful loop and set yourself free – go NC. Your life’s too precious to waste feeling as you’re feeling, and that manky, confused, upset, trapped, euphoric, sickened, tearful, bereft feeling that you have right now? That’s how he makes you feel. Pain isn’t love, pain is pain.
Oh, and anyone who calls you a c*** for ANY REASON WHATSOEVER (it’s just about acceptable if you’ve just chopped off one of their fingers. Maybe) does not deserve another minute or another second of your time.
Keep coming here – Natalie’s brilliant, the community’s lovely and it WILL help. I washed up here pregnant, desperate and heartbroken, and it helped me through it. You can get through it too xx
Jemma,
This guy is a real creep with nothing to give anyone. He is a user and a crazy maker, but you have allowed him to disrespect and hurt you. You know this guy is no good, and must understand why you would allow yourself to be treated so poorly.
Please seek treatment to get to the root of your insecurities, so that you may break free and never allow this type of treatment again.
I hope that you have blocked this asshole and gone NC????
Lastly, this man is/was never your friend. Friends do not hurt, use and disrespect this way!
Thanks for your replies – wasn’t expecting to hear so soon! Yes I have gone NC, I fell into a bit of a depression but I know it’s for the best. I was always making excuses for him because I know his ex cheated on him – but that’s reason enough I would have thought to treat people better! I don’t know – maybe he takes his anger out on women and I was in the firing line. Reading my post I can’t beleive this is me. I thought I had higher self-regard but apparently I don’t. I know how to treat people but I’ve forgotten my self-worth and allowed a man to mess me around because I’ve never met a guy I connected with as much as him. (or so I believed at the time). I’ve never downloaded all my feelings onto a website before but this is cheaper than therapy so thought I’d give it a go…I don’t know where the root of my insecurities come from – perhaps a distant father (cheated on my mum,nver got over it) and my ex of 4 years ditched and all he left me with were the words ‘There’s nothing to say’. I later found out he was with someone else. So yeah, I may have a few issues! When I met the EUM I was in the same place as him because I’d given up on relationships, like he has. But I think deep down he wants to be loved like we all do. I’ll try to work on myself before entering another relationship of any kind. And Yoghurt – I don’t know what MO means??
Jemma,
every person wants to be loved, wether they are saints or AC’s or preferable healthy people. The big difference is though, emotionaly healthy people realise there are boundaries, they realise there are 2 people in a relationship where one doesn’t serve the other one in his or her needs, likes or wants, or in their troubles. They realise the other person is just as much there as they are. There is no room for you in such a man’s live because he is completely absorbed with his own issues. He may have had his ‘days’ but when it comes down to it, you have to silence your needs to meet up his. When you truely care about somebody, this behaviour is contraproductive and sabotaging and the most important part, they know this and they. don’t. care. If they would, they’d stop immediately, open up and change their ways as soon as the morning they wake up with somewhat of a sober morning.
I used to think I had to deal with a nice man with ‘a lot on his mind’. I wasn’t. I was dealing with an asshole ‘with a lot on his mind’.
Sofie I loved your reply. It was thought provoking without putting me in my place. I agree with you. Why do I spend so much time and energy on a guy that’s so useless?? His friends and family all thought ‘I was the one.’ but he couldn’t see it. He kept telling me he had been hurt so wouldn’t commit. I always knew he was unbalanced, he wasn’t shy in telling me he couldn’t offer me anything. It was because of this that I used to think that I should have just settled for the great sex and good fun but incidently I was missing out on him because he wasn’t ‘there’. It was when we weren’t having sex that I felt most connected because he shared himself more; he was closer and more intimate. Yet I know I never had him, maybe no one will. I know I was nothing special to him because he’s having sex with anyone he can. I don’t know why I can’t get past this and feel so down about someone whose treated me the worst out of anyone. I live in a small town so it won’t be long before we bump into each other and I don’t want to think how I will feel when I see him with someone new. Yet I know I don’t want him back in my life. It’s just a mixed bag of emotions!! I don’t know why I chased for so long; I think towards the end it was what we used to have that I wanted, not him. I think everyone who contributes to this site is amazing – you all seem much wiser than I! xx
Jemma,
when you really long for companionship and warmth, and this person comes along and initialy gives this to you (especialy after you for example have been single for quite some time) it can feel so so so good. It’s like your hair looks good évery day, your eyelashes never seemed longer, your skin glowes and everybody tells you how happy you look. It’s that feeling you feel robbed off and you also wouldn’t be able to stand to see another girl look like this. Yes, the *feeling* is great. It’s the guy that isn’t. After a while everybody romantically involved with this baby will turn grey and sour, it’s not you. Try to avoid the places he goes just for a while, that helped me a lot. I used to want to be strong and not let me be scared away of mutual hangouts. Yeah right, did me NO good. First heal and get to understand the dynamics of why you are feeling this way. If you have to, think of his usual routines and try to avoid them. I know how much it hurts to even see a glimps of that man, it can really set you back. Or try walking with eyes focused to *ignore*. I think that way I might have encountered him in streets or shops, without even noticing it
Jemma be glad you have got away from this man. Many of us here have had really similar experiences. My Ex EUM was fantastic in the beginning. I was so bowled over by all the attention affection and romance, and as Sofie says, it is THAT I miss rather than the emotionally stunted dysfunctional man he turned out to be. A common thread for the woman who post here is that we are good looking, strong, intelligent women who are frankly stunned at ourselves for ending up in this position where we are obsessed and almost mortally wounded by these men. Mine called me recently after a month NC and I stupidly engaged with him. God it felt so good for a while, talking to him, sharing our little jokes, but he soon made it clear he still “was confused” and “didn’t know what he wanted.” he suggested we meet up but added that “it won’t be like it is in the movies.” OUCH!! I will try not to answer next time he calls wanting an ego stroke. I recommend you read Nats post about 12 core boundaries (just put it in the search engine). That has really helped me understand my contribution to the relationshit. Stick with us and read all the articles. It will get better.
Victorious, I think that post is brilliant – wish I knew about this site much earlier! I hate feeling so self-indulgent by oversharing but this is really helping in a way I can’t explain or be thankful enough. It’s funny how when I finally pulled myself up from the last disasterous relationship, I promised myself I would never do anything I don’t want to again, I’d never put up with any crap because I’m too important not to put me first. But meeting the EU blew that out the water because he called ME selfish! My guard to protect me from men like him had to come down because I thought his anger, meaness, indifference, aloofness (after the hot period) towards me was because of how the mother of his children had mistreated him and he was scared of getting hurt. So foolishly I let him in, forgave when I shouldn’t, let him take advantage and allowed him to mess up all the hard work I had built up over the years in an effort to show him that I was worth it!! This site has allowed me to realise that I do want to feel cherished and adored and loved, and having to second-guess and chase, drop standards and boundaries and be put on ”hold” is such a mistake. No man is worth this much pain. Just by spending thinking power on this man makes me annoyed because there’s no chance in hell he’s thinking about me and how sorry he is.I have such dark moments some days but you guys have been bloody brilliant. I just hope that what I’m saying now will stay with me in the morning and beyond…xx
MO stands for modus operandi – Latin for method of operation.
I seem to come across it a lot in books about police hunting serial killers…
I hope that your comment about ‘putting you in your place’ wasn’t intended for me – I’m sorry if I made you feel that way – not the intention!
Reading about the awful way that men like this behave towards people who really don’t understand what’s going on does tend to bring out my inner ranter, though!
lol,I’ll bear that one in mind! MO is a very good descriptive (I thought you meant Man Odour!) I really appreciate all the emotional support I’ve received and wasn’t aimed at you, I’m just very ultra-sensitive at the moment but I’ll get over it with you guys. I know there are bigger and more important things going on in the world, which sometimes makes this feeling so trival but believe me, your advice and support is exactly what I need.
Hmmm, I know that there ARE bigger and more important things going on in the world, but I also know that when I was where you are then it didn’t feel like it!
This sort of situation strikes at the heart of who you think you are and your whole perception of the world – you start to wonder if, when you’ve been so wrong about someone, you’ve been wrong about EVERYTHING.
It isn’t trivial at all – it strikes at the heart of who you are and (at the risk of getting a bit Cod PsychoAnalyst), this particular situation is probably a culmination of a lot of painful situations – your ex sounds like a git, btw – that you lived through before it. So it’s mega-painful.
I went through a phase of feeling completely unable to talk to anyone in RL about anything, I felt cut off from everyone. They didn’t understand how the whole thing was constantly running through my mind, and didn’t understand why I’d care. It’s really isolating.
That’s why this blog is so brilliant
It’s not a nice thing to have to go through (although I reckon better to go through it than to not go through it, and have to struggle through life with the same patterns), but it’s easier when you’ve got clear and very wise explanations and other people who know how it feels.
Lots of hugs xx
Thanks Yoghurt, this has been tough, I still find myself telling myself he isn’t a nice person rather than believing it, I still carry a lot of blame on my shoulders and actually envy women that can sleep with men without allowing their emotions to get in the way. When I told him how I felt, he just dismissed it as the ‘hug bug’ so I guess he’s used to women falling for him. Hopefully I’ll be able to stop caring so much soon xx
I came across these blogs and comments and how they strike a number of chords with me..it does help to have the support and understanding of others that are facing the same struggles and predicaments. What rang true in this comment was how isolated one feels. People around me all tell me brush it off and get on with things. I completely understand their opinions but I feel so bad inside. There are a mixture of emotions, betrayal, rejection, hurt, disappointment, doubt, loss…
I hope to roll out my story and hopefully perhaps you lovely ladies could comment?
Thanks Sofie, I feel like an utter idiot for feeling this way but I think I’ve forgotten how I’m supposed to be treated, how relationships are supposed to be. When he would say I’m not 18 anymore I would actually doubt myself and wonder if I was overreacting to the situation. I just lost myself. I don’t know if this is the answer but I’m seeking a fresh start someplace new, new job, new friends, new scenery. It’s ironic that when I first met him I told him I was holding off for ‘the one.’ His reply? ‘I’ll treat you like a princess.’ Never again.
oh Jemma hun, do not feel like an idiot. How can you be an idiot for wanting to love and be loved. You are not even naive, you were being tricked with future faking and subtle litte picks on your insecurities but we think it comes from a place of love. That’s a misconception, not dumbness. Funny enough, these men who jump up and down & pull out real stunts when you even try to mention something remotely close to their ‘issue’,feel like they can put US down (yeah, me to, I was ‘stupid’ or ‘unwise’ too) whenever they feel like it, but we STILL don’t see the light or head for the door. So they think what preoccupies their mind is so much more important than how you feel or how their words & actions affect their partner.
It is SO selfish.
It took me a year and an awfull lot of introspection and patience and work and trying to hold my ground, to be where I am now, and I’m certainly not ready for dating, but I àm over him. And yes, for me personally, it ment I had to cut chords with many other aspects in my life that were holding me down i.e. bad friends and such. Experiences like this often show us what else is ‘wrong’ in our lives, if we are willing to open our eyes. And opening them sometimes means opening up a box of old hurts and initialy you’ll feel worse but one day you’ll wake up and feel better than ever before. True-er. More authentic. More peaceful. Calm.
Step by step, day by day. You WILL get there if you really want to face the challenge. It’s an important one where you can only come out better, stronger, happier. Stay here and lick your wounds. Happy to have you
It’s been great talking to you – you just seem to ‘get’ it. You’re right about pulling guys up with their own issues; he would get angry, bury his head in the sand or run back to his ex for comfort sex (or anyone for that matter). I don’t want to be like that, I want to be free of the hold he has on me by working through it, not find a ‘distraction’ to hurt and confuse. How f***d up is that if that’s what he has to do in order to feel better about himself?? I think my problems lie in the fact that my ex of 4 years told me he didn’t want to settle down and apparently ‘he was holding me back’ but then promptly left me for someone else and moved in and got engaged a whole 6 months later whilst I was still picking myself up from the floor. It took me years until I liked someone new, he made out he wanted to be with me, told me he was in love, and then afterwards confessed he only said it to get me into bed! Luckily I didn’t fall for his ‘charms’ because deep down I knew he was bad news. Then I began to like this new EU guy, which went to shit. So all in all I’ve had enough! I don’t want to drag anyone down with this but just writing on here makes it feel a little less worse, so thanks Sofie. Your support is bigger than you might realise.xx
Reality check please:
Before I launch into this story, I just want to say that I already know the ways I’m ruminating and thinking is not productive. I know better, but somehow still have found myself in a mess. I do need to get this out of my system though, before I work on getting back in my own head.
I have this very good friend that I have spent much time with. He is a really lovely man. Truth be told, I have always at some level imagined ‘what if’. Lately,like the last four weeks, we have become closer. I really don’t know who started it, but spending more time together, phoning a lot when not together, keeping close tabs on eachother in our group of friends. It began to feel couply. A week ago we began to holds hands, and sit close to eachother.
Well, two days ago, it happened. We spent the night together. Again, no plans were made for this to happen, it just wordlessly happened.
This is why I should know better: he is fresh out of a long term relationship. Despite months, years now even, reading this blog, there I went: straight into the fire.
So last night, whilst we were out with our group of friends we agreed that we needed to go off somewhere to talk about what happened. I couldn’t believe what I heard, it was like reading everything that is written about EU people on this blog. He said it’s all complicated right now, he doesn’t regret it but hasn’t got time/space in his life for a relationship. Yada, and more of the same. Then he asked me for a hug.
This is where I go back and forth between knowing what I did to get in this mess, and being really angry at him for allowing it to happen if he felt this way. I keep going over a lot of what he said, knowing full well it doesn’t add up, and contradicts itself. I know from reading this blog, that is the time to flush. I want to flush, but I can’t stop focussing on what he said and what he didn’t say.
I will say this, which is what I would say to him if I were speaking to him today: how could he do this to me, knowing full well he didn’t want it to go anywhere, and knowing me and my vulnerabilities?This has been building for weeks, it’s not like an accident. How could such a nice man turn out to be so typically EU, when he wasn’t in our friendship.
I feel used by him, and I’m angry. So this is the reality check: is this normal to be angry, or is this my fault?
Olivia
Not your fault, many women have been caught out by this sleeping with a friend thing. Just because, or maybe because, you are friends, don’t automatically expect it to become a relationship.
The bf was my friend before we dated. We held hands. But it was very soon after that he declared he liked me. We then went on a proper date with a place and venue. I was extremely mindful of some of the horror stories here so I was never going to get too couply without knowing where we stood.
Chalk it up to experience and ask yourself if you can remain friends. Not to punish him but so you can move on.
And don’t put your men friends on a pedestal either. This man is not that great, really.
Thank you to Grace, Laura, Yogurt and Teddie! This is exactly what I came here for, and because this post is about guilt, and I was feeling all guilty about this, I knew my head was missing a link. I have so put him on a pedestal, you’re right.
Not only that, in our big conversation he actually told me that he was not as good as I was making him sound. I can’t remember which post this was in, but I remember reading here somewhere that early days, they will tell you that there will be shady behaviour.
Seems that I’m not yet cured of my ability to get in a mess, but this today has helped me enormously before I got silly-deep in do do.
This is a great site, thanks again. It’s really true, change the meaning, change the feeling. It still sucks, but now I know where my own head is, and I will just let one lie there.
A lot of men and women get caught up in the sex-as-comfort scenario, or sex-as-a-way-to-banish-loneliness-for-a-moment, or sex-to-help-me-get-over-feeling-bad-about-an-ex, or sex-just-because-it’s-comfortable-with-my- friend right now. This might be what your guy friend was feeling at the time. Sometimes it can be really comfortable and easy to fall into the sex thing with a good friend, and it does feels good and safe – but more often than not it doesn’t signify anything more than that. It’s not a relationship or even close. And it really isn’t appropriate to get angry with him or even feel “used” because it happened, since there was no discussion beforehand, no understanding and agreement of what it would mean and apparently no violation of trust. You did what you did. It is was it is. He is who he is.
I think more than anything you’re angry with yourself because you allowed yourself to cross that line before you were ready to deal with the emotions that were bound to come up, and also quite disappointed that it didn’t turn out to be what you wanted. He didn’t respond the way you hoped, and that is disappointing. It’s not your “fault,” it’s just something that looking back now you probably would not do again. So take responsibility, learn from it but don’t beat yourself up about it!! I wouldn’t demonize him either.
Browsing the Internet I found this extremely simple, still effective idea: if you’ll think you’ve lost your soul mate, of course you’ll be devastated and miserable and nothing will matter. But come on, which of us could say our ACs/ EUMs were our soulmates, no matter how good you seemed to click at certain areas, if he/she only wanted things on their terms, disregarding your needs and your feelings? Nobody would not even want a friend who is like that, so why would we need a partner for life who acts in this manner?
I like it
The bother is that by the time they choose to make it BLINDINGLY, UNDENIABLY obvious that they aren’t our soulmate, we’ve already scrambled our own signals and over-ridden most of our common sense in the process of forcing ourselves to believe that they are, really.
There were lots of reasons why Son’s Dad was never going to be my soul-mate, the biggest and most obvious of which was that he didn’t want to be with me (!!!Duh….). BUT I was a Cancer and he was a Cap, and he had green eyes and all my past boyfriends have had green eyes, and we had the same initials and… and… and then I was going to have his baby, so it was a REAL mess.
In hindsight, it was much harder extricating myself from the impenetrable web of my own silly beliefs (and one of the disadvantages of being clever is that you can, if you put your mind to it, very effectively bamboozle your own common sense) than it was getting over the actual factual HIM.
So right! This is in Nat’s terms “taking him off the pedestal we’ve put him on”. yeah, he’s not all that, an this is not just some “the grape is sour anyway”-talk, he is not that special!
Okay lovely ladies, I tried leaving a comment under the blog..When and ex returns but couldn’t.
I am hoping you all could offer advise and some support please. It’s not a good time, I was made redundant, lost my flat and the rest.
The most aching part is losing a guy I thought meant the world, turns out after reading much of the comments and blogs here he was indeed an assclown, unavailable man.
I me him 2 years ago, I was low, we worked on a project together. I was seperated at the time, as strange as this is going to sound I was still a virgin my husband had not consummated the marriage. Long story, this guy called Andrew came into my life and swept me off my feet. I had never been treated so well, the lovely emails, texts, the love, the absolutely stunning places he would take me. I didn’t sleep with him. After a 3 months, I lost all inhibitions and we stayed the night together and so it continued, he never pushed for sex. We could sleep together but not sex.
In this mix he had a girlfriend, he explained they were seperated and she was only living in his house because she was on her own and had nowhere to go.
After 6 months he dumped me, saying that he was afraid of a mixed race child, I am Asian and he is white. About cultural differences. He loved me but he loved his girlfriend.
I let him go.
I did send him messages here and there but never heard from him.
He returned 6 months ago after 18 months of no contact. His girlfriend was moving out and we got together, we started looking at houses, talked about children. In fact I finally slept with him and he said he did not mind if I fell pregnant as he knew I wanted that.
It was all going okay, there were moments I got upset as he would still call this ex when he was with me, he would make so much time for her. I filled the gap. He had loads on during the Olympics and I was there, to sleep with him, cook and steer him on.
He would see me maybe once a week and would make me feel so happy ans cherished and loved. I was so in love. Thinking I was finally in a place I wanted to be.
One day after a great evening, he was in the shower and his phone lay there. I went through it and was sick. He had been seeing and sleeping with another
Girl, I felt so humiliated. I confronted him, he shouted at me saying how could I check his phone. He didn’t discuss the other girl. He said I obviously had thought we were much further along in this relationship than I thought!
There was no contact but typical me thinking I will never find anyone else, that I am too ugly, etc..I emailed him after 3 weeks. He came back saying he too missed me and wanted to regain what we had.
We arranged to meet…he cancelled on me twice!! Saying he was too busy, funny enough it was him who had set the talking time up.
He completely disappeared. I never heard from him.
I emailed him to ask if he had anything to say and he asked if I was okay. I went mad and really told him off, that he needed to see a psychologist.
He never once contacted me again.
Instead he updated his status 2 days after I sent the email to say he had a new girlfriend…he was so happy, he actually is having the time of his life.
What hurt and still is aching is how gorgeous this new girlfriend is, she is blond, blue eyed, has her own business, is stunning and looks so much fun.
She is thin and knowing him, I am sure he just must think he struck gold. She is smitten I know this from the comments she leaves him. I also know him, he is an awesome Casanova knowing exactly how to play a woman. Truly he should write a book.
I finally blocked him on Facebook, I could not take the pain.
I feel not good enough, my replacement is ten times better than me, even I would chose her over me…
I have accepted the defeat, accepted he has moved on. It’s for the best.
I am keeping to the NC but I am faced with myself now and I am not coping very well. I can’t explain how hurt and stupid I feel. I miss him and then imagine him with his new gf and I coy away.
Anyone out there feeling rough because I do. I have no friends close by, no one that will call me and say let’s go out. No family either close by that I can confide in.
I have had some dark moments..I keep thinking of all the mistakes I made.
Hi Naz,
first of all, I’m sorry this has happened to you. It’s heartbreaking. Not only because it IS, but also because we all know the feeling but all too well.
You do however ring a chord with me, because I know about the loneliness, not being able to talk to somebody who loves you and comforts you and supports you in a time where you réally need somebody to turn to.
It is devestating not to get positive feedback in a time where you really need the warmth of friends, especialy when you feel like you just lost the only support you had.(not true! an AC is never supportive the way it should be, but that’s how it feels when you’re left standing alone)
It’s important to feel all your feelings though, your hurt, your anger, your overall sadness. You need to go through this because otherwise you can not get out of it either. So erhm ‘embrace’ it, even wallow in it for a while. But in the mean time take care of yourself, take long baths, cook a special recepy for yourself, watch comforting movies, clean up your place, anything that keeps you busy on yourself and without you really noticing, improves your environment and increases your level of stress.
Write down your thoughts and your experiences about your ex and how you see yourself in it, and please Naz, try not to pin it all down to you.
Write them down clearly objectively and then try to think of it as if it happened to someone else, and how you’d feel if this happened to someone els. This could help with how you feel, what you can do different in the future.
And last but not least, try to screen the people that surround you for somebody who opens up to you. Who could possibly become a friend.
Never give up on that.
It’s so hard, I know it, we all know it, you cry yourself to sleep and really, that’s okay, let it out.
You’ll see, it might take a while, but you WILL feel better, you really really will.
Whenever you feel bad, do come back here.
Hugs.
(((((Naz))))) Horrible situation.
Okay, here are my thoughts:
1) It sounds like you’ve been through the mill, with the end of your marriage (which sounds like an odd situation), losing your job and your flat as well as this this. That’s a lot of awfulness in a short time.
My point is this – try to separate out the issues. Don’t make the fact that you’re miserable ALL about him – you have a lot to cope with. I have a theory that in times of stress when you’ve a lot going on, your brain focuses on ONE issue because that’s all it thinks it can cope with.
I don’t know where you are with the job/house issues but you might find that working to sort those out helps with the way that you feel about him. I don’t quite know how it works – except to make you feel happier overall – but it does.
2) Repeat after me: She Is Not Better Than You. Seriously. If you wanted, you could buy some bleach, work out all day and eat nothing and then you’d be thin and blonde. You could smile maniacally all the time so that you look ‘fun’ – you could even branch out and start up your own business…
But really, would you want to faff about like that just so that you could fit in with the silly stereotypical idea of ‘perfection’ that some nasty, shallow little toerag has had in his head ever since he was ogling the chicks on Baywatch? Come on now – if his love was worth having, hair colour wouldn’t matter to him and neither would *gasp* skin tone.
She may well be a nice person, and good for her if she is, but you can’t really know anything from fb…
…which leads me to:
3) She Has Not Won because He Ain’t No Prize. In fact, I daresay that it won’t be long before she finds that her life is going down the toilet at a rate of knots.
Whether or not she’s what he thinks he wants, she’s besotted with a nasty, small-minded, bigoted, unfaithful, indecisive little coward – and that isn’t a random list of insults, those are things that I can evidence from your post.
He didn’t behave like that because you did anything wrong (other than getting involved with him in the first place, but we’ve all done that). He behaved like that because he thinks it’s okay to behave like that when he feels like it and when he knows he’ll get away with it.
Do you really want a man like that? Would you want to live with or have children with a man like that?
SHE’S the one who – when his initial buzz has worn off – is going to be hanging about, wondering if she’s coming or going and checking his phone from now on. I know that it doesn’t feel like it, but YOU’RE the lucky one. You’re free of him.
I’m latching on to one little bit of your story, Naz (he sounds like an ass and you’re well shot of him) – but one thing I wish I had made part of my list of values that I’m looking for in a guy is Able To Handle The Reality Of The Mixed Race Child.
I’m mixed race, and have dated all kinds of guys outside my race (kind of have to when most people around you are not the same race). So I kind of naturally assumed that everyone I was dating had given some thought to the very concept of interracial relationship and was on the same page as me about it (or else why would they be dating me, right?). Wrong.
Some of the worst hurts have come from dudes whose “discomfort” around race (i.e. racism) only truly disclosed itself when they had to consider kids with me, and it became clear they had no interest in being part of a parenting team that would actively promote their child being proud to be black or indian.
Now I absolutely would not even consider long-term anything, even short term anything, with someone who doesn’t share my values around culture and race consciousness. Last year I dated a mixed-race Asian guy who joked about his mother being “a crazy Asian lady” and said, “Oh, I just consider myself white” – and I knew it couldn’t work between us, because what’s he going to do, raise my kids to disavow their heritage, too?
Just a thought for those of us who by sheer demographics of where we live end up dating interracially – I used to think I was too picky to be bothered by guys not being sensitive to this stuff but it ends up meaning they’re not sensitive to my reality.
In the end it just comes down to refusing to be with anyone who doesn’t know that they’re lucky to be with you.
Oh, ladies I wish I could reach out and show the appreciation I feel for you all allowing me to offload my burdens here.
I try and re-read all that you say here, in the hope it will all sink in.
This guy is still seeing his ex girlfriend, as well as seeing his new girlfriend.
I am trying to make sense of it all, trying to understand what if anything I meant. Stupid me, still looking for validation.
There is more to this story, I think this is an epiphany stage in my life..my father was a brutal man, when I was born he cried because I was a girl. I was given to my grandparents to raise, moving from different aunts and uncles who took care of me.
He was an abusive man, never even looking at me.
He was overjoyed when my brother was born.
He use to beat, rape, swear mother like nothing you could imagine. My mother said it was best I never lived with her. But when I saw her during a few visits, this is what I saw.
I hate my father, I feel ill thinking of him.
I had another relationship before I married, he never wanted me but I chased and hoped that I would change. He called me fatso, pumpkin, ugly…
I married a man, I thought was kind, simple. No airs and graces. It was the strangest relationship. We never had sex in 9 years of being married . We slept in separate rooms. He tried a couple of times because it was time to have children, I was so put off I could not go through with it.
That is where I met this assclown, through work. He was amazing, all the stuff he said, the kind words, he showered me with love and care that I had never had in my life.
Perhaps it was crumbs, but they were good crumbs. They were better than any crumbs I was given before.
I miss the attention. I have never had suitors or guys ask me out. I was always the one in the club holding the other girls bags or the ones the guys use to talk about sport with. No one gave me the time of day. I was never asked out on dates.
I am in bad place right now. Getting out of bed seems in itself so hard.
Your words here though give me hope, give me the chance to perhaps understand better that like a junkie I have to go cold turkey before I can get better.
I wish I could join some sort of support network but don’t know how to find one local.
Thank you so much for letting me be myself here…
Love and light to you all I hope it works out for us all.