Over parts one, two, and three of this series, I’ve explained how compatibility, type, and common interests are three things that can be pretty dangerous when you have been in a number of poor relationships because aside from you not looking at the bigger picture and looking at these things in context, you may have some unhealthy or misguided ideas that are driving your choices. Today, it’s finally time to talk about ‘type’.
I’m going to be blunt – If you’re someone who claims to have a ‘type’, talks about it and rests her proverbial sword on it, and has found herself courting misery, ambiguity and all of the other negative stuff and hasn’t been able to have successful relationships with her ‘type’, he’s not your ‘type’!
He’s your illusion, he’s your nightmare, he’s your fears, he’s your pain in the ass, but he most certainly is not your type.
Your type should be able to make you feel good for longer than ‘moments’ or fleeting highs.
Your type shouldn’t come with drama and excess baggage. Your type should be someone who can consistently make you feel good throughout the relationship and allow you to be yourself.
Having a ‘type’ is about justifying why you are not open to making a different choice.
If you imagine someone sitting you down and asking you what type of man will run you ragged, leave you in self-doubt, give you fleeting highs with many lows, and cater to your negative beliefs about yourself and run down your self-esteem, it’s your type. Particularly for the women who find themselves with men who treat them badly, you could remove the window dressing from your aspirations and just say ‘My type is *ssholes!’
When you are habitually involved with Mr Unavailable’s and assclowns, you will discover that you are the type of person that has made excuses and allowances for poor behaviour and has struggled or even outright refused to opt out, because it’s been preferential to dine on the illusion and hope that he would change.
‘Type’ is about choosing a particular type of person because you think that it’s what is most attractive to you and what will make you happy.
However, type is about following a pattern, and if you have discovered that you have a penchant for Mr Unavailable’s and assclowns, you have unhealthy relationship patterns, and have been choosing unhealthy men because you have an unhealthy or toxic type.
For a start, most of us don’t even know who the hell we are anymore as we’ve lost ourselves in a series of Mr Unavailable’s and assclowns. You can’t possibly know what makes you happy, because trust me, if you did, the first thing you have to ask yourself is:
If I know what makes me happy, why am I continuously opting for the unhappy route in the hope that one day it will make me happy?
Why not just cut straight to the chase and choose a man that is reflective of the values that you chase at end of the tunnel, instead of squeezing a poor candidate through the round hole when he’s actually ‘square’?
Even scarier, many of us mistake the feeling of the familiarity of something or some catering to our fears as passion, excitement, and ‘love’, when in actual fact it’s fear.
Remember, pain is not love, it’s just pain.
Type has you blinded because type it’s never really about aspiring to be with someone who with the aesthetic and sexual appeal, also has strong values, and loves, respects, trusts, and cares about you.
Type is very much tied up in the unimportant. It’s about making the nice-to-have-but-unnecessary -things a priority and forgetting about the important things that will actually determine the success of the relationship.
Because you are chasing a feeling, as discussed in part two, your ‘type’ is reflective of the types of things that you believe will generate this ‘feeling’.
Your type and your relationships are often tied into illusions, so you’ve been projecting your ‘type’ onto this feeling and not sanity checking whether your ‘feelings’ and your ‘type’ are compatible.
You want to feel good in a good relationship but your beliefs about yourself, love, and relationships mean that you have a type that caters to the beliefs, that’s actually incompatible with the feeling.
Your type allows you to create excuses to keep fishing from the same pool, but your pool that you’re drawing from is making you unhappy.
Choosing same man, different package just does not work.
You may be trying to reconnect with traits and behaviours of someone that you either last recall feeling vaguely good with or who you would like to right the wrongs of the past with. Your ‘type’ may represent the one that got away, your father, your first boyfriend who let you down, the guy that broke your heart, but ‘type’ can often be about proving something to yourself.
Type is about nurturing your pattern and keeping it alive.
Some women have been chasing the love and attention of their father who was tall, dark, handsome, with a desire to have a music/acting/art career that never did quite take off, ever since they were a child, and their daddy’s just been replaced by boyfriends that fit the mould.
At the end of the day, type is only as good as the men you end up with.
If your type yields the happy, solid relationship you want, yay for you, but if your type means that you welcome the waifs and strays of the dating pool that rely on you having little or no boundaries, you have a toxic type that’s going to hinder your prospects, play havoc with your self-esteem, and stop you from getting the relationship you profess to want.
Much like when I talked about the compatibility issue, there’s no point in going on about your type if it doesn’t bring you success because all you’re doing is making yourself comfortable with b*llshit and men who are poor prospects for a relationship.
Your ‘type’ is an illusion because whilst in your mind it makes you happy, in reality, it does the opposite.
You spend your time trying to get the illusion and the reality to marry up so that you can justify your investment and avoid looking more closely at your choices because you are afraid of change and what that will mean to you.
Type is about catering to the self-fulfilling prophecy where we say we want to be happy and in a relationship, but we end up sabotaging our own efforts by choosing men that offer the least likely possibility of delivering on our desires.
We then get to be right and say what chumps they are (and they often are) but it’s more comfortable for us to keep trying our hand with the familiarity of our type than it is to branch out into unknown territory.
Type is often superficial and I’m not saying that your guy shouldn’t have aesthetic appeal or share some of your interests but it’s unrealistic to keep chasing a figment of your imagination or to keep chasing just the superficial and paying no heed to whether the core values stack up to yield a decent man who can give you a decent relationship.
A reader said to me recently, ‘Of course I want to be happy and fall in love but I just don’t find guys who aren’t my type attractive. I like guys who like outdoor pursuits, you know, adventure stuff, healthy, likes walking and mountaineering’
The woman is so fricking miserable it’s scary! There she is traipsing up and down mountains with him and he hardly talks to her. He’s adventurous alright – he likes the adventure of flirting with other women on trips and shagging around behind her back. He’s healthy, works out, but is rather vain and takes pot shots at her about her own appearance and weight. I mean jeez, couldn’t she forgo focusing on these shared interests and maybe focusing on someone who makes her feel good, even if he’s waiting for her at the bottom of the mountain to take her home instead of walking on it with her?
She’s not looking at the bigger picture.
You don’t need a mirror image of your fantasy because much like when people discover that living out their sexual fantasy isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be, it may be time for you to start getting real in the real world.
Wouldn’t it be better for your type to be focused around the type of relationship that you want and feeling good, positive, and being treated well as opposed to being focused on the superficial qualities that often make up ‘type’ and yield men that you end up being incompatible with?
Because remember, compatibility, type, and ‘common interests’ go hand in hand together.
The very men you profess to be your ‘type’ are actually incompatible with you because you cannot forge a relationship with them, and when you do, it’s on their terms, which ends up making you frustrated and miserable because you have to let go of your own core values, have little or no boundaries, and try to become someone you’re not in attempt to make the relationship successful, forgetting yourself along the way, and still ending up with a relationship that doesn’t work.
You assume because you share interests (or take on his interests) that these are reflective of the type of man these interests will yield, and that man is your ‘type’ but you’ll learn in part 5 that interests only mean something in the overall context of the relationship.
Your type, much like your ideas about compatibility that are incompatible with your happiness, is holding you back.
It’s not about finding a perfect man; it’s about finding someone who as a base, is wholeheartedly committed to you. When someone is committed to you and protecting your relationship, no matter what and who they have been before, they’re now putting both feet in to do what works for you both. Where adapting is needed they do it – not try to bully you (up front or passive aggressively) into having no boundaries so they can continue on with their poor behaviour.
It’s time to come down to earth and evaluate your type and if it’s incompatible with making you and your relationships successful, you have got to address why you are seeking these types.
You will discover that some of these men are like self protection.
You know what you’re going to get with this ‘type’ even though you also hope that he’ll buck the trend and prove you wrong and be different…even though if he was different, you might not be interested in him….
Is your type based on your mother or father?
Does your type detract from you and reduce your self-esteem?
Does your type remind you that you’re not ‘good enough’?
Does your type bring out that competitive streak in you that makes you want to fight to prove yourself worthy and ride that donkey till it collapses?
Is your type dangerous? If you’re seeking danger it’s not exactly compatible with a stable, committed relationship.
Is your type lacking in character? If so, ask yourself why you are so attracted to men that are lacking in integrity and allergic to the truth?
Is your type dark, moody, and uncommunicative? It’s not exactly compatible with someone who thrives on being communicated with and is looking for validation.
Is your type wild and irresponsible? Why do you think he’s going to be responsible with you?
What is your type and what does that type represent to you, because if you examine your type, you might just start to understand why your relationships are floundering and what you need to heal within you.
More to come in part 5
Get ahead on understanding waste of space men and relationships with my ebook, Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. Find out more and download. If you need personal advice or analysis of your relationship/situation, check out my consultation service.
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@Morning Coffee…thank you kindly for the hug, but I do not think I’ll be going to “their front door” anytime in the future. To tell him what? By me standing at that door, I’d be giving him something he doesn’t deserve…my deepest emotions and feelings. He’ll have to do without that for now, henceforth, and forevermore. As for going there, again, why open up a wound and more than likely cause a scene, the likes of which, no man has ever witnessed. And you know what? It would all be for his entertainment. No…Jetred will not be a sideshow for the Assclown and his “woman he’s been looking for and finally found”. I will not be the subject of discussion over their…eh-hem…morning coffee and amongst their friends. The woman who would go to those lengths is named, Misery and that evidently would suit him proving that I was no more than something to do until she came along. No, Ma’am…He will not take anymore of my power from me. I’ve got a long road ahead now…learning to be alone and accepting that the “honorable and worthy” man did not exist in him. I’ve got the sleepless nights to deal with and the tears, shame, and regret to make it through. I won’t put myself in a place for him to disgard me again like soured milk. I’m done with it…I shouldn’t have to tell him that I was a human being…a woman who loved him without hesitation…a woman who still misses him. No…I’ll leave these thoughts and pains on this page where they can not be used against me.
My NC point is two months without me leaving him a sign that I’m open for abuse. The longest I’ve gone without him actually saying somethnig to me is a whopping 4 months…that’s my goal for now. To not need him any more than he needs me. To not be the FBG…but my own woman needing nothing but to keep steppin’ high with a bounce in my walk again. I may not get there very soon, but I know what it can be like to wake up one morning and just not give a shit about…uhmmm…errr…”what’s his name”? I’ll get there…and still be a lady.
Ya see…I keep sayin’ this “MoFO” is the same dang guy! Y’all don’t believe me, but it’s the same man! LOL
@Kuji…you’d be surprised how many of the women here have mentioned the birthday angst and thoughts that are natural to have for someone on their birthdays, even if they don’t deserve those thoughts. I’m guessing it must be a terrible week to have a ManChild. I will try to, maybe avoid men born in August alltogether. My A/C’s birthday was on the 6th. I’m new here also…welcome.
@Planet Jane and Butterfly et al
I have been reading the info you posted on narcissism with great interest and great disgust. Reading the part about the Narc thinking of the wife as the “saint” and others he sleeps with (for Narc Supply) as “whores” who he has no emotional bond with made me feel nauseated. I don’t know if my ex is a Narc, but some of the info applied, and I feel even worse now about how he treated me. And yet, I am still craving him and the “interaction” we had ( not a relationship I understand now), even though it was mostly physical. I sooo want this craving to end!!! I have to see my ex next week at a conference, and I am losing sleep wondering how it will be having to see him in person again. Those of you who have written about breaking NC – I really feel for you, and I am dreading that happening to me.
Anusha – congrats on 3 months NC! That’s fantastic. I am just over 4 weeks, and hopefully counting……
@Butterfly – “I can truly say now if he called me and I answered I’d just say “I hope you get everything you ever want in life but you have no part in mine. Goodbyeâ€. Good for you!!!! I sooo want to get to that point. Your posts are sounding amazing lately – full of insight and strength. Enjoy the music etc you are “reclaiming”!!!
I’m starting to feel weak and I don’t know why
@Meant Because it comes and goes in waves honey. It comes and goes in waves but as many people have written the waves get less frequent and less turbulent. Plus, I have been lucky not to see or hear from him.
I recognise that “Saint and whores” thing though. Sounds very familiar. “If I saw other women it would be meaningless” and the panic when I said ok well if you see other people I should too. Eventually this was something he says he agreed to, and he did agree knowing full well I still wouldn’t but also by this point he was devaluing me all over the shop.
OK Meant – drastic measures. Visualise him as being covered in festering herpes lesions, weeping pus and scabby. Even if he smiles at you, even if he is sweet to you, just imagine how the pus is oozing disgustingly through a pair of filthy, threadbare underpants. Maybe there’s flies buzzing around his crotch too …
Jetred – you go girl. There’s a dignity and grace in your post above I can only ever dream of possessing.
The man who is leaving my thoughts (as sharply opposed to “my” ex, which he was until today or yesterday, not sure when I read the thing which turned OFF the lightbulbs because there was sunlight enough) also had sexual desires which were ones I didn’t share and I know he drove other women away with them. Some I morphed to adapt to, some I kind of liked and there were yet others I really liked but the song remained the same, the things I liked which he didn’t were “I don’t like that”.
So this guy who will soon be leaving your thoughts has found his match? Well, maybe. Maybe he really HAS found it, no matter though because he’s just some guy who has no place in your life and who doesn’t deserve to know what ups and downs, triumphs and setbacks colour your existence. The best outcome for you is that he finds happiness with her and leaves you the hell alone, of course.
Men born in August are either Leos or Virgos, for differing reasons I would be happy to avoid men born in August. I have September as the ManChild Amnesia Amnesty, I am hoping that I really don’t much care. At least I will be saving money, no transatlantic flights to book or any ladies underwear to buy supposedly for myself but which he would probably end up wanting to wear LOL.
@Butterfly…No, I ain’t scared of you. It’s probably myself that I need to worry about. LOL
@Butterfly
“OK Meant – drastic measures. Visualise him as being covered in festering herpes lesions, weeping pus and scabby. Even if he smiles at you, even if he is sweet to you, just imagine how the pus is oozing disgustingly through a pair of filthy, threadbare underpants. Maybe there’s flies buzzing around his crotch too …”
I *love* it!!! lol Thank you for this visual – I will add that to my “armor” when I have to see him next week. That crotch is becoming a little less appealing already. I will also imagine festering herpes lesions, and maybe a little HPV for good measure, in his mouth…
I found this site in the beginning of Feb after getting ‘the disappearing act’ in January. NC was pretty ‘easy’…he did not respond to texts and calls…light dawned a week later and I stopped. I sent a text in a weak moment in late April, no response. Sent one when I thought I was going to bump into him in June…and he responded that ‘love sometime to explain my behavior”…Never got in touch with me. Further self humiliation – sent a text asking how his new job was going…No response. I thought tossing out the olive branch so he would be less intimidated to call would finally motivate him to end the ‘bad karma” and give me some closure. These events have sent me reeling back into ‘THIS HOLE’.
Everything that is written on this site makes so much sense…but the application is very, VERY hard at times. I just wanted to hear from him what the hec really happened…not to validate me – I have nothing to be ashamed of except falling for ‘it’…maybe to validate the relationship or so he could prove he is not the AC or A HOLE his behavior indicates and walk away with some CLOSURE. Actions do speak louder than words…and it has now sunk in…why on earth would he send that text say he wanted to explain? and Why didn’t he follow through? My answer is: He is waiting for ME to make the CALL and grovel…I am not willing to do it…
There are two points I want to make: There have been discussions on this site about NC and closure. Some people believe that AC do not deserve ‘the final talk’ before NC…Unless it is an extreme situation I believe that you need to express “I am done, we are done” and start NC. That last call or conversation we never had would’ve made all the difference in the world to my healing. The second point is…once you do start NC…NC forever. It is damaging to break NC and open up old wounds and the sadness and humiliation that go with it.
Thanks to NML and everyone on this site…I am so much better than I was months ago…but clearly need work…and after all this time it is still day by day. I feel crazy after all this time of just wanting ‘that last conversation’ to fill in the blanks…it really is very hard. Stay strong everyone.
@ Meant – yay! I thought you’d appreciate that. Here’s another thought: cockroaches are incontinent …
@kimba – application is hard – Meant has said some lovely positive things above and I appreciate her support immensely but not quite managed to thank her because I am not sure I can do so without feeling like a hyprocrite – I don’t feel strong most of the time and atm I have a terrible ache in my solar plexus without really knowing why but I recognise it as anxiety. It all passes and the analogy of “the hole” is also how I try (in vain) to describe it to someone who has never been there.
This is also my way of saying “thanks Meant” x
Thanks Butterfly – About breaking NC…there are days that I say…or say to others..”stop this madness and get it out into the open like adults” but the end result is…more humiliation, sadness and frustration. We are not dealing with an emotionally strong adult in relationships here.
@Meant – read your post on a narc…and the wife being the angel…Right on target…well…I am starting to realize I WAS similar to the exwife…and that was too much for him to handle…he probably fills his time skimming the surface with shallow relationships. Goes back to description of EU…still not over the ex…says he is but isn’t…
Please everyone…stay NC if at all possible.
Question – My AC was so forthcoming, open and honest..so I thought…after a few cocktails…In wine is there truth? or is it just easier to lie????? Did he mean what he said (over and over) but could not follow through completely? I am sure NML will say “it does not matter” but to me…it really could be something…
I am getting lots done today but when I get bored with my housework I’m surfing and resting and think this article might be of help:
http://www.enotalone.com/article/2725.html
Extracts from a book called Why Not Call That Man?
@Kimba – “I thought tossing out the olive branch so he would be less intimidated to call would finally motivate him to end the ‘bad karma†and give me some closure.”
It is so funny(?) what we can talk ourselves into in order to justify making some kind of contact with the eum. Once you start down that slippery slope – that uncomfortable second-guessing – it NEVER works – it’s over – you know it and I know it. You know when a guy is just never gonna be there for you or your “olive branch” and so do I. And that is the time, ALWAYS, to just pack your sh*t and walk away gracefully. Save YOURSELF. Maintain your dignity.
He’s not “intimidated” to call you. He’s called you before. Make no mistake, you’ve made it pretty clear that you’re available.
It IS hard to go NC without a final conversation. I’m in the same boat as you. My xeum has never had a “final conversation” with me – I think he is allergic to them – and it is simply because he wants to leave it open, and vague in case he wants to come back. This is my third bout of NC with him – although I didn’t have the info and didn’t know the first two were NC. This time, I disappeared. And maybe I should have had the conversation with him, but there was so much I was thinking and feeling, I could have never told him. And I realize: they’re just words! They don’t really mean anything anyway. Especially to him. I will never get in there. He will never feel anything…except sorry for himself. It’s a wasted effort.
And God knows, he never gave me any information – even, especially when I asked. So, let it stay open. Maybe he’ll think I’m there for him…one of these days, but maybe when he turns around to look for me again, and takes a step toward me, the ground will fall from beneath his feet, and he’ll stumble…and he can wonder. Like I’ve had to wonder all these years.
@Kimba — “That last call or conversation we never had would’ve made all the difference in the world to my healing.”
You may think it would have, but would it have really??!! Like you, I thought the same thing, that I really needed to fully express myself (regarding my thoughts, hurt, his behavior and its impact etc.) to my ex-eum for closure and that by doing that, I’d finally be free of his taking up occupancy in my head. A surprise visit by him last weekend after 5 weeks of NC proved me wrong!! I expressed everything I fantasized about expressing to him. He verbally took responsibility for his behavior, admitted to mistakes and never once turned the tables on me. But in the end, it has not helped with closure because nothing has changed. He remains ambivalent about whether to move forward in the relationship and I remain firm that I will not be his friend. So in the end, all this did was to drum up all the old emotions and move me away from closure instead of towards it. In other words, this encounter has given him more occupancy in my head as I replay yet another interaction with thoughts of potential regarding the relationship slipping in again. Plus, he now knows that I still have emotions for him and even though they are emotions of hurt and anger, he knows I’m still connected because I was not indifferent. It’s getting to indifference regarding the man and the relationship that is the hallmark of being healed.
Hi girls,you think me unblocking my ex on MSN would be a bad idea? I deleted and blocked him and I wouldnt put him back (because seeing him online afects me too much) but I thought about unblocking him so he can see when Im online and talk to me if he wants.We are almost 8 months break up and NC for 3 months.What you think about that?
@Kimba – Thanks to NML and everyone on this site…I am so much better than I was months ago…I feel crazy after all this time of just wanting ‘that last conversation’ to fill in the blanks…it really is very hard. Stay strong everyone.” That’s great you’re feeling better after finding this site. Me too. I did have the “last conversation”, and it hasn’t helped me much either, similar to serena. I am still finding NC very difficult, and feel withdrawal symptoms (weird feeling in chest, nausea), so it seems NC is the only way to go (if only it was *easy*……) And, if you were similar to the ex-wife, does that mean you were more of a saint to him?
@Butterfly
)responses. and I know you are a great help to others, too.
– you are sooo welcome, and please don’t feel like a hypocrite. I know how hard it is to take your own advice. You do seem to have really good insight into a lot of issues that are discussed on here. And you have helped me personally many times, often “just in time” with your thoughtful (and often witty
@Planet jane – I’m on my third round of NC too (first since finding this site) although I *did* get to have “the final talk”, there was no way I could have told him all I felt or all the reasons I couldn’t be with him any more, or all the ways he had hurt me and devalued me. So, I just gave him a couple of ‘basic” reasons (e.g., I feel too guilty about possibly hurting innocent people) and kept the rest of the gory details to myself. I think that was for the best. I do have to see my ex 3 times per year through work, and I want to feel comfortable being in the same room as him. So I gave up a chunk of my “closure” instead. Not sure if I did the right thing – I will know better next week when I see him, but just know that “the last talk” is not all it’s imagined to be.
@Anusha
Please DON’T re-add him to MSN. Do you remember the reasons you told me to delete my ex? and how nervous you felt when he was online??? Is it worth it to see that he is online? What if he sends you and IM? How will you handle it? What if he doesn’t – how will you feel? I think you could be opening up old wounds if you do this!!!
@ Meant to be Happy- I wouldnt re add him (so I still couldnt see when he is online),I would just unblock him so he can see when Im online and send me a IM.I just wanted to see what he would do if he had the chance to talk to me.Im not sure about it since Im afraid it can just put my healing back to square one maybe.Im divided,part of me wants to do it and part of me isnt sure that is a good idea.That is why I want to know what you all think about it.
Anusha: don’t do it! seriously if your anythign like me you will start obsessing over him, wondering whether his online, why hasn’t he sent you a message if he can see you etc.
I have blocked my ex so he cant see me when I’m online (as he appears offline alot), and so I can’t imagine there would be any benefits in re-adding
I don’t believe it will do any good to have that last talk. If he couldn’t empathize with where I am emotionally with him…he won’t be any closer to understanding the words of love and dispair I say to him. He just wouldn’t get it and I don’t think I could take him saying to me that he never made any promises…he didn’t in words, but he did demand my loyalty. It’s almost as if he wouldn’t be satisfied unless he knew I was suffering over him. He moved her in and knew why I was moving to his area! I still have trouble with that, but it only goes to show…he wouldn’t care about my words any more than he cared about my emotional, physical, and financial well-being. He has disengaged and that in itself makes him feel stronger. It’s like a game with me. It may not be like that with her or any other woman, but I know I’m insignificant at this stage…why make him feel that he’s not to me? That last talk can burn you, I swear, it can.
@Jetred
You said “It’s almost as if he wouldn’t be satisfied unless he knew I was suffering over him.” That reminded me of a time that I was telling my ex that I was feeling frustrated because I felt more emotionally invested in the relationship than him, and wasn’t sure if we should continue. (mine never made any promises either, but seemed to *expect* my loyalty). He said “I have ruined your life” – which I thought was kind of an extreme comment, but then I thought about his tone, and he almost seemed to say it with a sense of pride. Like he “got off” on the thought that he could ruin my life. I thought to myself – come on, I must have imagined it – how could be enjoying hurting me? But now you said this comment about *your* ex, I’m wondering – maybe I was right! If so, I am amazed and disgusted by the extent of the evil games these EUM’s/AC’s play.
@kimba
I think deep down inside we hope that if you we put everything on the table once more, in the most clear and concise manner that you will get something – anything some genuine remorse, tears…. More often than not what you will get is diddly squat and then you will be left kicking yourself why did i contact him… Not worth it. I made the same mistake two weeks ago, I wrote him a letter explaining how hard it was for me to deal with the pain and anger…I never heard back and had the joy of watching him on msn ignoring me.
I didn’t get any closure, just more questions, why wouldn’t he respond to my letter, did he read it, is he angry, is he hurt…save yourself the extra pain.
@ Meant…I’m almost sure of his desire to be sure I’m down. He liked to talk about being dominant by nature. It’s one of the reasons I believe he has posted all over the place about his new situation. I don’t necessarily know that it’s all about me…it probably isn’t. There are bound to be others he’s sending a message to, however…atm it’s my heart I’m hearing from. he is satisfied that I’m hurting. He knows that I will be silent and yet, he has a sense of it…my goodness, “She has moved to my state…she was sprung.” I wonder sometimes did I remind him of his ex wife of almost 30 years. He claims to have been bruised by that, but you know, they only see the way it turned out and she hit him financially…who knows if he hasn’t broken heart in the first place? I feel so devalued, but I see that he was looking to do this in the first place. There are also questions of race that are popping up in my head, did he do this to prove something about b/w? Heck…he was looking for someone to fill the fantasy and so…I may not have for some reason.
It’s time to stop for now…I’m not making sense to even me. I’ve got no answers and I don’t think I could stand the truth.
@ Anusha. NO. It’s madness.
A lot of guys who identify as dominant do so in order to act like a total jerk – which is the opposite of what happens in a true power exchange relationship, in theory anyway the point is that both partners are equal and both give – the reality rarely matches and this is why in my opinion most Ds relationships either blow very hot then dead cold (leaving the kind of mess you’d expect but a support network at least who understand more), lead to two dull spuds finding a dull spud to be a dull spud with whilst telling the world how sexually adventurous they are or a poly relationship with very little boundaries – now, option three works quite well for some people and before you get too “but this is EUM!!” actually it isn’t because all parties are open, communicating and in consent and the core relationship is based on shared views, values and goals and therefore although it wouldn’t appeal to most people here it is working absolutely fine for them. I personally know quite a few people in this sort of relationship and they are all as happy as a bunny. Good for them, frankly, they really do love their partners and choose the other people in their lives carefully.
Not for me, I suspect, but hey.
How do I know so much about all this? *cough*
Anyway!!! moving swiftly on … the more I read the more my heart goes out to you ladies and the more I agree that the “final conversation” thing could just be reduced to the experience I had two days after the first “Maybe I love you in a different way” and me saying “Well that’s not enough, goodbye” (if only I had not read that text and broken the first round of NC). I was in the shower and knew I was alone and wouldn’t be heard, crying, and found myself screaming “WHY?”.
That one word says it all, to my mind. Why? WHY? WHY?
The answer is not anything that they say to you. The answer is that they can’t feel properly. The answer is that you are a co-dependant (by you I do mean you, and I include myself).
The answer is that the whole thing was abnormal and could never be. The answer is that you fell for something offered to you because you are addicted to the idea of love and the fantasy of perfection. So are they … but as you learn more about them you try harder, sensing perhaps their addiction to the fantasy they have of you and they … find someone else to be deluded about.
There is your answer: it was never really real. NML says this but time, space and NC (REAL NO CONTACT means not wondering if he contacted you/would he/why didn’t he/how dare he not?) including not looking at his Facebook profile etc etc etc etc for clues about what is happening with him and if he is missing you. Yeah he might be, and you should not care if he is mising you or not, he’s rat poison to you. Yes it’s ironic that you would be killed by rat poison and he wouldn’t but that’s because he’s immune to it because there’s something wrong with him: instead it’s the love he professes to you which makes him ill and your silence which MIGHT hurt him. Or not. Get over whether he’s wondering if you are ignoring him etc etc cos he isn’t, he’s finding someone else impossibly perfect until she – oh I dunno, says that she finds the fact that all races are humanoid in Star Trek to be far fetched and he has that running cold chill in his belly that says “Oh no. No no no. I thought she was the one who would … ” and then starts ignoring her for something so trivial.
Here’s a genuine one of mine. I said that the FILM of Tommy was crap. It is crap. It’s terrible in fact. He acted like I’d cut off his dick and told him he was gay (I have no illusions that he is at the very least bi-curious but he is vehemently in denial about it). The correct and rational response would have been “I loved that album” to be told something like “It’s a classic album but the film was terrible, Oliver Reed for a start”. Yanno, a conversation. Instead, he told me that the album was one of the defining moments of his teenage years and I ended up almost grovelling for him to forgive me (I did also tell him that his reaction was excessive and inappropriate given that no criticism was given of the album, just the film which he had not even seen).
It was facts like that meant he eventually complained that I had a forceful personality. Well yes I do have a forceful personality if I am mistreated. I’m openly admitting that I have very strong co-dependent tendencies, if I love someone I want to make a perfect world for them based on what I know they like or want. Thankfully I now have a job where I can channel those impulses safely and make a difference instead.
I hope there’s something in here that might help others because as has been said there is no answers only questions. You are expecting answers from a time frozen in your mind – but there is no freezing people, he will have done other things many of which you will wish you didn’t know about, and you have to understand as I learned to my cost that they DO want you to know about it, they want you to know what they choose to tell you and they openly get off on the power play.
These men are chumps but you HAVE to accept responsibility and until that concept truly filters in (which in time it will if you allow yourself to heal) you are just as guilty as they are because that little bit that makes you miss them (here’s mine: he had a lovely voice, he always called me baby … ummm … hey well here’s a good sign cos I am having to reach to find anything at all … he was very kind to animals) means that you are idealising, projecting and objectising them. You are just as bad as they are, in this regard, get a grip and see you are not in love with that man you are in love with what you think he is and the realities don’t match!
Maybe the guy with those qualities also seems a bit of a wet blanket. I’ve met someone recently who really likes me but he’s 29 and there’s no way I can go for someone so much younger than I am. If he was my age, even though he’s not my type (yay back on subject finally in this thread lol) I’d go for it but almost all relationships I have had were with men who were quite a bit younger.
@Jetred “She was sprung”????? Maybe this loses in translation over the Pond, seems like a very weird thing to put. Very weird. I wouldn’t get all hung up if I were you, that has no positive spin that I can see if he is talking about her. If he is talking about you then it’s proof positive that he is an asshole – ok, extreme image time here. Ever had an upset stomach from food you ate which was badly prepared? When you had finished spending too much time in the toilet in one direction or another didn’t you think “I want this out of my body as soon as I can”?
On a slightly related note, my searching made me see advice given to a guy dealing with his feelings about an EUW who was told “You wouldn’t want to get in contact with Cancer or Ebola would you?” (I am paraphrasing). I was amused and reassured to see someone else using Ebola as an example and from now on that’s how I will think of the man who will be leaving my thoughts soon … Ebola, who can’t REALLY play guitar, is ugly, has a load of my underwear that he probably threw away because if I am imperfect so are my knickers (yeah I know lol) and who had not got ginger hair but did have ginger pubes!!!!!
Who cares what the answer is. Make some shit up and then choose that it was the answer, then close the door and walk away. It smells in that room probably so leave a nice bowl of pot pourri on the table so that when you have to go back there (in your memories, in the future) it will just be a clean space or at least if the assclown is still in there it doesn’t smell. Tortured analogy there!
@Brad K – thanks so much for your response.Yes, NC is the ONLY way to go.Even after 2 weeks I had started to get a grip on myself,look at him with the clarity I didn’t have,and I really benefitted from this site.I managed to ignore his texts for a week,and then this is the one that got me… “So you have abandoned me”.It literally hit me in the stomach-I felt terrible,responsible(stupid,yes!) and despite all I had read and knew he was manipulating me,the emotions just rushed in.Guess 2 weeks is just NOT long enough to have any will power at all.Yet I still ignored him,until later that day I got a text “I am in a desperate situation”…that was my downfall.
But as you say,in hindsight I can see that contact DOES NOT work for me.On a positive note-my phone number changes on Tuesday.Unfortunately though,I have had to start the arduous process of NC all over again,and have all the feelings of disappointment in myself to deal with .BUT atleast I am better off than I was before I found this site.I have to deal with my own reactions to him,but atleast I know EXACTLY what he is.My therapist says she is sure he is a Narc(she offered that after I told her my story,I never suggested it).
I think many are, Eyes … I really do, having had two of them myself over the last 10 years. Take heart though that NC rarely if ever is a one time deal – nor should it be maybe, as it’s when you go back you KNOW it’s no good.
Ignoring them is the only way. Hugs.
Butterfly…LOL, when I used the word sprung, it was my own way to describe what he must know about me. To be “sprung over someone”…totally infatuated…in worship mode…not in control…unable to function properly on your own. Excuse me, but I picked that up from some of my younger friends (who, btw, either follow my blogs, know me from work relationships, call me for advice, etc because they THINK I am wise and have it all together) Oh brudda!!! No the term is used here to describe a negative state of being and a negative attitude I believe he has about my feelings and would be certain of it if I made contact for that “last talk”. He’d actually never use that word. He would say to himself, “I own her…I never have to seek out for her again, because she will be in the place in which I’ve left her. She is mine to use or not use.” The nerd as Master and Commander. Yup, he’d really be stoked to have that information about any woman he has dealt with. Sorry if I’m painting a picture of him that is no very nice…but sprung is the way he wanted to leave me…and I am. I’m just not ever going to allow that to leave these pages. I feel this way but he has no right to bask in my temporary dillusion.
Ah thank you now I understand. This man is what we can justifyably call a waste of space darling. My disengaging you take control, always remember that xxx
@ Butterfly…Yes…I see and can mentally process that…slightly. It’s the heart, though. I was sitting here thinking about what you’ve said about the reality of who this man is. Just a man. I can’t help wanting to hear that voice. It always sounded as if, when he spoke, he was calling me into paradise…lol, even when just to ask what I wanted for breakfast eggs scrambled with toast or eggs obrien. That jerk! LOL He had this thing he’d do…converse with me with the Yiddish kind of accent…so silly.but I liked it. The weight he gained last year…the first thing I saw when he picked me up from the airport was that wonderfully round belly poking out under the tee he insists on tucking in his trousers. So middle aged he looked. The way we could talk about many subjects…history, politics, old movies, the military….and he had a grasp on all of it and he even understood me….yada, yada, yada. Oh this is all crap…he’s being kind to someone else this morning…but I’m just saying I understand what you meant. I just have too long a list of things I remember and miss. CURSES! LOL
Thank you all,I have been thinking about it and I guess that isnt a good idea.Anyway like a friend of mine said when a guy realy cares for a girl he does whatever it takes to reach her,so I shouldnt need to faciliate things for him.
About the closure talk,I dont see the point on it.They are EUM so they wont get it.Is like NML said once,they dont think they are doing anything wrong and they see their efforts as something huge even if is just crumbs.I tried to make my EUM get it milion times and it never worked(like I bet you all did too) so why this time it would be diferent? Just do your own closure and walk away.I did that with my ex,when I started NC I didnt say a thing.I just stoped contacting him,there is no point in trying to make them see it realy.
@ Anusha,
“. . . so I shouldnt need to faciliate things for him.” It seems you are skipping an important step, Anusha. There is a decision to make, that still awaits you.
You are still trying to live in his world. You are waiting for him to choose you again. You started No Contact on advice that NC would help you recover – but you have not decided to leave. NC is intended to support and guide you in a decision that, whatever he does or wants, you want a life that does *not* include him. You are not trying to loosen the ties that bound you to him, only trying to make this separation more comfortable.
And that is a losing choice. You weren’t comfortable as things ended, and they won’t get comfortable while you wait for him to take control of your life.
If you were to go to the mirror, right now, and state, “He was not good for me. I can not afford to have him in my life. I want to be whole, I want to be free to live a healthy life. I want to be someone that attracts healthy people to me, and I want to choose to be with healthy people.” If you were to look yourself in the face, in the mirror, and state, “I choose to bar him and his hurt and harm from my life.” – You would not believe it.
There is a reason that this all seems fuzzy and complicated and doesn’t seem to get anywhere. You need to pick a direction. NC is an egregiously rude thing to do to someone, that is why it is only ever used to *end* a relationship. The safety and protection of NC is needed to break away from an unhealthy loss of control to someone unworthy. Having done NC, could you go back to him if you chose? I doubt it. Not only would you have to overcome your disrespect in telling him one thing then changing your mind, you would need to re-earn his trust that this time you won’t blow him off again. I doubt, seriously, that anything good could come from trying to go back – that bridge is well and truly burned. And it would never address the hurt, the loss of self you suffered from in that relationship.
Choosing to let him go, to acknowledge that you dare not let him back into your life, that you have to find and undo all the ties, all the assumptions, all the habits that still tie you to him – that would be a step toward taking control of your life, and placing it in the hands of someone you can and must learn to trust – yourself.
While you are living in limbo, trying to be comfortable while waiting for him to “make it better”, your healing is spotty, your self esteem is on hold, and you continue to live the life of someone in a co-dependent relationship.
When you turn your back on that page of your life, you want to move forward, towards a goal of a healthy life. Looking back, wondering what might have been, waiting to see what he will do – these distractions make it harder to take those steps from here to there.
Deciding, making a choice, is the simplest thing in the world to do. You consider, you decide, you act. It is astonishingly simple. Yet making that choice real in your life is as tough to do as anything else worth while.
Luck.
Brad- You are right,Im still conected to him.I do want to move on and atract healthy people but yes I still do hope that he will come back.That he will contact me and say how sorry he is for everything and change.It wont happen I know,I have been waiting for that all my relationship with him and never happened.So why I still insist on that even after had been proved milion times it wont happen I dont know.What I find hardest to let go is the emotional bond.I still have that strong yearning for him even knowing how bad he is for me.Maybe that just shows me how much work I still need to do on myself and once I have a better relationship with myself I wont want him anymore.
@ Jetred – so what? Miss them – it’s fine to miss them – just don’t confuse missing something and your need with it ever being good for you. Preaching to the converted I know.
I’ve spent the day at the zoo and when I first got there I “had him with me” so strongly that it almost felt like he was holding my hand, like I often felt when we were together but I pushed away the feeling that he would have loved it. The him in my head would have – the real him would have been attention seeking and distant.
I hope this is progress. I have missed him today but know it’s not really him. This site helps me more than I can possibly say.
I found all of you this morning, as I passed another day with Messenger opened in the corner of my screen, watching him wait for me online and stifling the urge to sign in. There have been more periods of no contact initiated by me that I care to count. The last and current one has been a whopping week. I’ve been reading all the posts trying to find comfort and strength in continuing this but I know that deep inside I want him back. Not that I ever had him.
We really had been friends with no ulterior motives for the first two years we worked together. I had met his wife and he had traded jokes and shop talk with my husband, both of them knew of us being friends. I can’t pinpoint when that friendship turned into more, but it was a good year before anything physical happened. Even then, we both called it quelling a physical need, professed that neither wanted a divorce. I did think that once we did the unthinkable – met at a hotel for an afternoon – the sex had no chance of living up to the anticipation we had been building up for months. The air had been thick enough to cut with a knife for months. Wrrooong – just as our minds had clicked, so did our bodies. This crazy affair followed. We talked constantly; on the phone, in person, by IM, texts, long emails, you name it. Each time we got naked with each other guilt would kick in for one or both of us, we’d swear ourselves off, vowed to be just friends. Please don’t groan here but I did, and still do, love my husband. Had someone told me years ago I would one day have an affair or be in love with two men, I would have dismissed it as impossible. Even when I did have to admit to myself that I was more in love and in lust with this man that I would ever have thought myself capable of, I still wasn’t ready to leave my husband. Whenever he spoke about leaving his wife I always said that I didn’t want that.
I don’t know what’s going on here. It’s two years later, and with the exception of the weeks when I “do the right thingâ€, we are in constant contact. Dozens of emails every day. 6 months ago I moved away, took a job on the other side of the continent. Some part of me must have thought he would follow, another part of me, an easier one to acknowledge, was certain that the time and difference would do their thing. Neither happened.
My “situation†(much as I hate to use that word) doesn’t fit neatly into the AC or EUM category, in fact I may be writing this because I would like for someone to tell me just where it fits in. I have kept this a secret for two years now, and although he and I have discussed this ad nauseaum , I know that the whole truth never comes out. We’re both pretty screwed up. We are both married to people who have it very much together, we both have said that’s what had attracted us to them all those years ago. I took the link to the “narcissist site†and as I had done many times before I found all the parallels in our bad childhoods and failed coping mechanisms and the topsy-turvy world we both inhabit emotionally. The thing is, I love this man for all the broken parts inside him because they are a mirror image of the scared, lonely, and insecure mess inside me. We’ve often joked that we were separated at birth, because even when we hurt each other we understand why the other person is compelled to do so. He hurts me by being married, but at the same time I stay married for the same security he gets from his marriage. I would leave my husband if he asked, but I have never asked him to leave his wife. I have been telling myself that if he really loved me he would have followed me. I want to be free of missing him this much. I can’t attach any of the “type†labels to him because they attach to me too.
Oh hell. I started this post to reassure myself that I am being strung along and need to get out, but maybe I’m the villain here. I am the one that went away and I am the one that is always running away. But here I am in my new apartment, boxes still unpacked six months later, because all I have done since I’ve been here is work and miss him. If I am the emotionally unavailable one, then why does it hurt so much every day we’re apart? I am almost 40 years old and God help me I am still married – although long distance – to a man whose integrity and kindness astounds me as much today as it did 10 years ago when I met him. I have done him such harm, even if he doesn’t and never will know it. That knowledge hits me in the stomach every single day. Still I’m pining away for someone else, who is as much a child as my husband is a grown man, who already belongs to someone else, and who has two children. So I’m starting week two of no contact, again. It’s also a second week of crying and being sick to my stomach. I need help, I need to stick with this, because the last two years have not been any kind of life to have.
Well Agea,
It’s tough to comment on your post, because you don’t really fit with the rest of our stories. BUT, I can relate. And I can say that in my LTR of 8 years, I cheated on my partner with a man that I felt a strong connection with – the type that you explain in your post – twin souls type deal (Fantasy? Probably). He was single. It didn’t work out between us. He flipped a 180, and began to ignore me and imply that my attentions were no longer desired. Turned out he was seeing another lady, whom he got a job at our mutual workplace and whom I had to work next to on a daily basis. The whole situation was incredibly traumatic and painful for me and pretty much broke my heart. But OF COURSE I have myself to blame. The affair very much ignited the break up of my relationship – which was already suffering, and in many ways secure, but unsatisfying.
Anyway, this was three years ago, and as I look back I see that: I was looking for a way out of my relationship. I was EU with my partner and looking for the dream/romance/attention with this other man. My partner was EU.
I don’t know what happend to my OM and his lady friend. He basically went NC with me – which broke my heart, but it is certainly understandable. I did have very strong feelings for him, and I very much wish him the best.
Anyway…I URGE you and your OM to stop, and take a look at the ways in which you are both EU, and the ways in which you are hurting yourselves and your partners as well. It really isn’t worth it.
When my OM first went NC with me, I was devastated. I couldn’t eat, could not contain my anxiety, could not mask my despair. But it was for the best. And I got over it, eventually. I took the time to look at my relationship with my partner, and we both agreed to end it. That was also difficult, but it was the right thing to do.
I believe that you need to maintain NC with your OM in order to get a clear look at your existing relationship and yourself, and decide if you want to remain in it, and decide how/if you’re going to work on it. But you need the space to do so, and being with another man is not going to give you the space or the focus. And it just isn’t fair to anyone involved.
I remember feeling so incredibly lucky, and just on top of the world to have two men…one faithful, trustworthy and reliable, and one new, exciting, interesting and fun. If I had only known the pain I would have to go through for those few, fairly brief moments of joy and exhileration! I wouldn’t take it back…because the learning was incredible, but please be warned!
I hope this makes some kind of sense
I’m trying to relay an experience that I am not proud of and still making sense of.
Luv.
“He was not good for me. I can not afford to have him in my life. I want to be whole, I want to be free to live a healthy life. I want to be someone that attracts healthy people to me, and I want to choose to be with healthy people. I choose to bar him and his hurt and harm from my life.â€
Brad, these are excellent affirmations of truth to those of us recovering form the EUM experience. Thank you for sharing. Anusha, you are wishing an unhealthy man will magically turn healthy…. If only it were that easy. All we can do is work to stay strong and healthy for ourselves.
You know…I wasn’t so brave to start this NC…he actually started it. He felt that he had to go NC with me because he fell in love with someone else and he hadn’t expected it to happen. So then what do you say to someone who looks like they have their heart set on being with you. He was the one who went NC…not me!
I’m sitting here just thinking…maybe there is absolutely nothing wrong with him. Maybe it is me. Maybe I came across as having something wrong. Maybe he was the one who dodged a bullit by finding the woman of his dreams. Someone healthy that he could build a life with.
Maybe I wasn’t attractive to him, because of the physical or the emotional. He could see that I was damaged? Maybe it was taking so long to get moved, he didn’t trust that I would really come?
I was just thinking about it.
Aega,
One starting place would be NML’s ebook, Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl.
This is one of the classic models of emotionally unavailable people. You are married, and took up with someone else – you didn’t want to be responsible for sharing his life. You still don’t. He took up with a married woman- he was into the sex adventure, not looking for a mate, or any other kind of healthy relationship. This situation has emotionally unavailable written all over it. Plus there is the failure of character – you cannot be true to your marriage in honor and honesty, and reserve time and energy away from your marriage. The time and attention you spend on things that aren’t of your marriage – are a cheat to the marriage.
You seem to believe you are the only sex adventurer on this bozo’s string – he is fooling around with a married woman, what can he possibly have to say that you can assume to be the truth, including his relationships with other women? How many unintended, second-hand sexual contacts do you want to bring into your marriage, each carrying a potential vector for disease?
Your first challenge is to decide for yourself, for now and all time. Do you want to stay married to your husband? Everything else flows from that choice. To be a wife is an honorable and sacred estate. It is a commitment of a lifetime. There are directions you can express your energy – into family, career, community service, etc. But your actions should always be honorable in the eyes of family, community – and the person staring back from your mirror.
To be a wife answers all of your questions about your relationship with the bozo – none of that matters any more. He is gone now – your task is to become the responsible and respectable wife you vowed to be. Instead of trying to recapture the excitement of new love, focus on the security and comfort of your home and husband. Practice distracting your thoughts anytime the bozo crosses your mind. I think a daily journal – more in depth than a diary would be – can be a powerful tool for charting where you are, and tracking your journey to where you need to be. Unfortunately a journal tends to surface at the worst time, and would be likely to hurt your home and husband.
When you suggest you might be the villain, the one that caused disruption with the bozo you were sneaking around with – that cannot matter. In the first place, both of you were intentionally seeking a partner that would not last, or you would have found yourself single before ever noticing that someone else might be interested in you. Your fling was not going to persist, and was always going to end painfully and unhappily.
Cheating harms you. It diminishes your ability to think of yourself with respect, with trust, and with honor. You trade your self esteem for a sex adventure. It may not be apparent until much later, but I think you have to return to living a healthy life.
Any contact from the bozo is a direct and meaningful threat to your marriage, and thus to your self esteem. You don’t really want him – you are just reveling in the sex adventure and the illicit thrills of a sex fling (is adultery still a crime in your state?).
Your situation isn’t unique. Several visitors have shared similar stories of being distracted from their marriage. I don’t recall that any of them decided, “Well, that isn’t helping me.” and walked away without regret.
Choose wisely, but do choose what you want your life to be. Don’t wait for someone else to make your choice.
@Jetred,
“I feel so devalued, but I see that he was looking to do this in the first place. There are also questions of race that are popping up in my head, did he do this to prove something about b/w? Heck…he was looking for someone to fill the fantasy and so…I may not have for some reason.” – so you think he started a relationship with you with the intent of hurting you? Wow. And I don’t understand the race thing – are you and this other woman different races and he purposely chose her based on race? I’m not understanding you.
@Planet Jane
Thanks for sharing your story about your experience with cheating on your LTR partner. Sometimes I feel that people on here respond less often to those of us that are cheating or are the OW as they feel we are setting ourselves up for misery by being involved in a “forbidden” relationship. Yes, I am disgusted with myself for being emotionally and physically involved with another woman’s man, and I beat myself up about that every single day. I just really appreciate your openness here, and I feel that you can understand my situation just that little bit better.
thank you….. meant xo
@Brad K
I see we posted at the same time. I just wanted to add, after reading your response to Aega, that I think this is the most carefully worded, tactful, helpful, honest post I have ever seen you write. Reading your response to her gave me such a feeling of acceptance on this site, even though your comments were not directed at me. Thank you, too…
Meant
@Aega – I hope that *you* found Brad’s post helpful too, and I wish you all the best as you sort through this difficult situation.
@Meant to be happy – “Thanks for sharing your story about your experience with cheating on your LTR partner. Sometimes I feel that people on here respond less often to those of us that are cheating or are the OW as they feel we are setting ourselves up for misery by being involved in a “forbidden†relationship. Yes, I am disgusted with myself for being emotionally and physically involved with another woman’s man, and I beat myself up about that every single day. I just really appreciate your openness here, and I feel that you can understand my situation just that little bit better.”
Oh boy. Ok, I’ve been an OW myself – a very long time ago. I was very young. But all I remember is that it was one of the most painful things I’ve ever been through. I would never do it again – and I’m sad to say I’ve had opportunities – because to me, all it means is PAIN. A pain that I can prevent. I will not court it. And I hope you feel the after your experience here
We’re human, we make mistakes. I think the only way we can move on and grow and develop that elusive self-love stuff is to accept ourselves – mistakes and flaws and feelings and all – and then try to do what we’ve learned through all this is best for us…and others in our lives.
And MAN! Am I an EUW or WHAT!? I know it’s no joke, but the more this stuff comes out. Geez, it gets hard to deny. I have so much work to do…and I’ve done so much. Is anyone else out there just exhausted!?
@Meant…my goodness, It seems that my answer here will stop me from thinking in the direction I was on my last comment. Gee whiz, you stopped me from putting myself down lower than the two of them.
Anyway…this man has is attracted to women of my heritage but I feel that it could be just a fantasy that he’s held since he was a younger man. His wife was the same race as he was…but the women he has “befriended” since the end of the marriage where all African American…the new woman and myself included. I’m not certain what he was planning to do in the beginning with me, I am simply seeking some healing balm of understanding. I may say anything at this moment in my period of NC. Slap me around if I get out of hand, okay? He…liked to feel that he owned me, and that a b/w as subservient was a turn on for him. On one of my visits, we were intimate and he called me the N-word. And I flew off the handle moved into the guest room and refused to talk to him…but in all honesty, I sat down with him the next morning…ah, breakfast…and he tried to explain that it was only between us. I still don’t understand that part of his psyche. (oh yeah, now that I think of this…I didn’t respond to this the way I should have…it was a denegration that if you could see my face in person, I would never admit to) He calls it dirty talk…it’s just something I am not at all comfortable with…from anyone. Call me old fashioned, but I had real questions about his character after that and bunched in with the fact that he is a conservative thinking person…I just wondered if I was in love with someone who thought of me as an inferior being…and now this. I can’t really say. He is open about this relationship…I thought he was pretty open about whatever we had. Human behavior is a hard thing to figure out. He confuses me if I lay it all out in front of me…contridictions, political views, apparent insecurities he had about himself that he’d try to hide. Again…all the things about him are swirling around in my head. Maybe it was nothing based on ethnicity…but it certainly was something based on me. I hope I’m not too flakey for you to follow.
Meant to be happy – Oops! I hope it didn’t sound like I was digging at you about your situation being preventable. I know that we all have our lessons to learn on here. A lot of what I read on this site is women who know what they have to do, and they’re just working through it. Because knowing it and actually putting it into to action and practice are two different things. And not knowing it is just dangerous. Ok, but what I was getting at is that, I’ve learned about being the OW. And it is simple for me now – as I imagine, not becoming an fbg is a no-brainer for others who have been through it – or just came by it naturally from a different upbringing or whatever. Anyway, what I’m trying to say is that I couldn’t possibly judge you. You’re on here. You already know what you have to do. You’re trying! And I wish the best for you!
Luvs!
Who hasn’t been the OW…whether we knew it when we were walking into it or not. We should all be able to relate here.
Okay, okay…GROUP HUG!!! ((((hugz)))) LOL
I’ve never been the other woman. I’m not saying that to sound superior in any way, I just never have been the other woman.
Jetred, your doubts are normal – I think that too “maybe it was cos of me” nu-urrrrrr … it takes two to tango. Occasionally I was bitchy cos I was about to have a period (more than bitchy, cos I want leaving alone then and am scared of being abandoned). I’m working on that … but it doesn’t stop him from having serious problems and I snap myself out of that thinking cos at the end of the day it doesn’t help.
NML says this and let’s repeat it.
“IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU. IT’S ABOUT THEM. THEIR THOUGHTS, THEIR DESIRES, THEIR EMOTIONS AND WHAT THEY FEEL LIKE DOING.”
Good bad or indifferent, it being about them helps me. You could change everything about you and it would be no good and remember that they might have found someone, they might just be blowing hot like they did with you (whilst blowing cold on someone else in all likelihood). You can turn yourself inside out, rip yourself to shreds and it all makes no difference at all. He’ll do what he wants. You’ll be wasting even more of your time.
I actually find now I don’t really come here for support with my own issues directly – it’s seeing other people’s experiences, turmoil and self doubt/pain that has made me see sense. That and reading NML’s book.
Love and hugs to you all.
Oh yes BTW Jetred (not had breakfast yet and already been to work lol low blood sugar) I can see what is going on there with him but I really don’t like to even identify with the way he thinks remotely and for a short period of time. This man is a waste of space … truly …
@Butterfly…”…don’t lie to even identify with the way he thinks remotely and for a short period of time.”
I don’t want to seem like a dunce, but…well…HUH?
Jetred
I have not been so active on her, I come back when I need a support boost but there is what I see in your story, and forgive me if I may have missed something big that takes me off the mark,
Many of us are here because we are mature, emotionally open people who became involved with someone who was less than honest, nor very open with us, and thus hurt us very deeply. The dishonesty and holding back is a betrayal of emotional intimacy. Being ” let go” in a callous and shallow way is really cruel behavior to exprience.
Maybe, maybe the other woman is the one for him. However, anyone with mature emotions in a mature relationship sees meeting someone else for what it is, and carefully evaluates what they are experiencing. The consider both womens’ feelings all the way and ends the one relationship in a most loving, respectful and clear manner, that does not leave the other person wondering in confusion about what happened.
Your recent comments reminded me that the EUM I was involved with was definitely power tripping with me. He is a mixed bundle of fear, distrust of women, stubborn and conservative thinking ( meaning not very willing and open to learning new ideas ) and he manipulated me by..idealizing and then devalued me, over and over. It took me way too long to figure out what was going on and it was emotioanlly manipulative and draining all along the way.
Anyway, if you have any worries about ” maybe It’s me “you I think the best plan is to work to be the opposite of how we define EUM, I am vigilant watching for sabotage and other dishonest behaviors in relationship that are based on fears and insecurities. I always seek to be centered, work to feel at peace with who I am, believe that I have much of great depth to give, and believe I do find others with that level of goodness to reciprocate. I am careful now when something does not feel right to pay close attention and explore that feeling.
@Planet Jane – “We’re human, we make mistakes. I think the only way we can move on and grow and develop that elusive self-love stuff is to accept ourselves – mistakes and flaws and feelings and all – and then try to do what we’ve learned through all this is best for us…and others in our lives.†Yes, this is true, and this applies no matter what our situation. I agree wholeheartedly!
“Oops! I hope it didn’t sound like I was digging at you about your situation being preventable. I know that we all have our lessons to learn on here.†– I didn’t take it that way at all – just that you were sharing even more, which is great
@Jetred – “I just wondered if I was in love with someone who thought of me as an inferior being†– what a horrible thing to have to wonder. It doesn’t sound like he was respectful towards you, even at your most vulnerable time (when you were being “intimate†with him). Now I feel sorry for this woman he has decided to take up with, and I’m relieved for you that you are no longer with him. My ex would hint that he was interested in trying some bondage, or “slave and master†fantasies, but I never went along since I didn’t trust him enough, or feel that he respected me enough. The more I read and share, the more I realize we are dealing with sick men here… You suggested “insecure” – I think that’s an understatement! And I followed your thinking well – not flakey at all – thank you.
Jetred, thanks for the group hug
@jetred — “He…liked to feel that he owned me, and that a b/w as subservient was a turn on for him. On one of my visits, we were intimate and he called me the N-word. And I flew off the handle moved into the guest room and refused to talk to him…but in all honesty, I sat down with him the next morning…ah, breakfast…and he tried to explain that it was only between us. I still don’t understand that part of his psyche.”
Jetred, THINK about this. He abused you! This alone speaks VOLUMES nevermind that he manipulated you to move and then dumped you for another woman. Solely based on this one experience it’s clear that this man is an abuser and you were abused. Regarding his psyche, this man likely has a disorder that goes beyond abuse and WAY BEYOND EUM!! From what you’ve posted he seems sadistic and dangerous and likely has a personality disorder that is beyond narcissism. It seems like he enjoys moving people around in his life like pieces on a chess board. He entertains himself in this way through manipulation and control.
Thank GOD you aren’t moved in with him. In time I know you will see this as the blessing that it truly is. A therapist could help you in a major way to understand what you’ve been through, help you break the bonds that tie you, and help you rebuild your self esteem and self confidence.
Stout (2005) states “One in twenty-five everyday Americans . . . is secretly a sociopath. And they can literally do anything at all and feel absolutely no guilt. One of their chief characteristics is a kind of glow or charisma that makes sociopaths more charming or interesting than the other people around them. They’re more spontaneous, more intense, more complex, or even sexier than everyone else , making them tricky to identify and leaving us easily seduced. Fundamentally, sociopaths are different because they cannot love. Sociopaths learn early on to sham emotion, but underneath they are indifferent to others’ suffering. They live to dominate and thrill to win.”
Reference:
Stout, M. (2005). The Sociopath Next Door. New York: Broadway Books
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