So we (finally) come to the final part in this five part series, where in parts one, two, three and four, I’ve explained how focusing on compatibility, type, and ‘common’ interests is pretty dangerous when you have poor relationship habits that are being driven by some unhealthy ideas about yourself, love, and relationships, and failure to look at the big picture and put all of these things into context.
In constantly chasing a ‘feeling’, we put up with some pretty crap behaviour from men in the name of feeling good for what ultimately ends up being for moments or brief periods of time. You get a taste of what you think is the good stuff and then you keep trying to get him to cook up the same recipe with you again so you can taste it and extend the high.
But really, even though you’ve had some times of feeling good, or even great, invariably, you more often than not, feel pretty awful and you spend your time trying to make yourself be compatible with someone else’s bullsh*t. This is in the hope that you’ll get that feeling, be validated, and get the relationship you want.
In chasing the feeling, even when a relationship ends, we then try to recapture it with our ‘type’, hoping that ‘this time’ things will be different. Be we end up with same man, different, dodgy package.
We then wonder why things are not working out or how we can possibly be expected to start something with someone else when we had so many things in common.
We look for common interests so that we can validate our reasons for staying invested, for trying to make ourselves compatible with them, and to keep pursuing the same type.
Clinging to compatibility, type, and common interests is about justifying why we are continuing with these men and trapped in inaction.
Yep, this is all about The Justifying Zone. As explained in my ebook, this is:
“….the slippery slope we go to when we sleep with a guy too soon or before we have really assimilated whether he is ideal relationship material and then we hang in there as a justification for sleeping with him in the first place.”
We claim common interests with men so that we can validate our decision to stay emotionally/sexually invested with them and to keep pursuing the relationship that we know ultimately, we’re not going to get.
At the end of the day, it really doesn’t mean anything if you claim to have a love of music, healthy living, sports, travelling, reading intellectual books, watching foreign films, cooking Asian French fusion food, no smoking, going to church, dressing up in rubber, dancing till the break of dawn, or whatever you think you have in common with him.
If you and your man do not share basic fundamentals that yield two people with both of their feet in the relationship that share the common interest of loving, caring about, respecting, and trusting one another, no matter how many ‘interests’ you claim to have in ‘common’, you don’t have things in common where it counts.
I am telling you right now that the interests that you place so much value in as a reason for being interested in him and sticking around, are overvalued.
In the meantime, you’re undervaluing the things that do count – values that give you a man with integrity that respects your boundaries, and wants to be a decent guy in a decent relationship.
These common interests are superficial and they don’t add any substance to your relationship because when it’s not working because some of the fundamentals are missing, your relationship doesn’t hold up well to scrutiny.
The worst thing is that many women lose themselves in men so they actually don’t genuinely know what their common interests are because they’ve spent so much time morphing and bending to men.
In trying to make ourselves compatible with the ‘types’ that we pursue, we’ve adapted to suit in the hope that this one guy would finally accept us and validate us. There we are thinking we’re made because he makes us feel excited and he runs marathons, and he likes talking about politics, yet he’s resisting being with us.
Men who are genuinely interested in you and forging a relationship don’t burn up the bulk of their energy trying to resist you.
If he’s resisting you, it’s not because you have so much in common that it’s too hot for him to handle; it’s because whatever you do have in common, it’s not enough to keep him there.
It may appear that he’s playing hard to get but he may not be trying to be caught.
But there’s an even bigger, scarier thing about common interests:
What you think you both have in common, may not actually be the common interest between you both.
A lot of the whole compatibility, type, and common interests issue is ‘assumed’ and ‘projected.
We decide we have a lot in common with these guys and we overvalue it, but the fact that the relationship does not work out shows that they don’t value these commonalities. Often, many women discover that the common interests that they thought were so important to the relationship and made them so compatible with the guy in question, weren’t actually important to him.
Often these men value different things so your common ground that you think you both share is not actually his common ground, so you’re standing alone.
You’re also standing alone because in projecting your idea of him and what he could be, and your ideas about the commonalities you share, you neglect to examine the actual commonalities that you don’t share.
Yes, we’re back to illusions, stepping back into reality, and looking at the bigger picture and going beyond the ‘moments’ and the bits of him that you like.
You struggling with him to get him to be the man you want or to give you the relationship you want is about trying to get him on the same common ground as you which means you really can’t have that much in common.
He’s just not got that much in common with you, and even if he does, it’s not enough of what matters.
As I said on my post last year on common interests, it’s not up to you to decide what you both have in common because for a start, you shouldn’t have to force the issue and if what you had in common was good for the relationship, it wouldn’t be floundering.
What people who are in poor relationships have in common is fears, inaction, overvaluing the wrong things, undervaluing the important things, and beliefs about themselves, love, and relationships that impact negatively on our personal happiness and success in relationships.
You’d be amazed how when you address what’s been driving your relationship patterns and opt out of the misery and inaction, you discover that you don’t have very much in common any longer with Mr Unavailable’s and assclowns.
I actually bumped into a reader a few days ago who had got in touch with me in her darkest moments with an assclown Mr Unavailable who she’d thought was her type, had tried to be compatible with, and thought they had a lot in common. Months later, she’s happy, has got back her figure after being skeletal, and dropped him and cut him out of her life. In hindsight she recognises that the man drove her mad and to despair and she had nothing in common at all with him. She’s moved on with someone else who is very different, who shares some interests, but more importantly treats her really well and has never given her reason to hate herself and her life.
At the end of the day, if loving a man means you can’t love you and you have to find ridiculous commonalities to give you a reason to stick around, it’s not worth it because you’ll lose yourself and most of us discover in time that we’re not compatible with pretending that this is as good as it gets. Oh we have a damn good go at trying but life rapidly becomes a tedious battle of pain, disillusionment, disappointment, and despair as we try to reconcile the illusion with the reality…and fail, not because we’re failures but because we spend too much time trying to put the proverbial square peg into a round hole.
Get ahead on understanding waste of space men and relationships with my ebook, Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. Find out more and download. If you need personal advice or analysis of your relationship/situation, check out my consultation service.
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@Meant = check your email in the guy’s name please, Nat has worked her magic!
The amount of EUM (married man) and Assclowns approaching me is just unbelievable. Sometimes I think do I have it engraved into my forehead ??
Fortunately I have learned a lot lately and I am sending those guys back to reality straight away. It works every time and it is quite funny to watch how those Assclowns and EUM’s react !
Have a great day everybody !!
@ Aega, I have never been married, however, I don’t think any human is able to live without feeling fear (being afraid and feeling insecure, as you state above).
Its just so human!
Actions speak louder than words – right?
I’m curious to know what you do Alice
@Butterfly
OK, I will look. I don’t check that email much, as I set it up just for *him*
I will read what you put, then I will be out for most of the day so will reply later tonight or tomorrow.
Thank you so much Butterfly and NML!
Meant XO
@Jetred,
I don’t have much time to comment, but just wanted to let you know that this part you wrote really rang true with me, too.
“He’s worried about being a man…and doesn’t understand that it does not entail denegrading his woman. He didn’t trust me to love the jerk he was in spite of himself…and I don’t trust him because he can’t trust himself.”
We can’t continue letting them build themselves up at our expense!!!
Hugs to you, Meant XO
Thank you very much Katty,metsgirls and Aega for the coments on my posts
@Meant…
“We can’t continue letting them build themselves up at our expense!!!”
Yes, you’re right. I let him do that in such a way that I now feel just a slight memory of me, if there is one at all, is his validation. He realized how much I cared for him and it made him even more confident in seeking a better deal. You know, the situation that happens when a woman lets the guy park in her garage til he gets his raggedy hooptie fixed up to drive the next woman around in. I was only an ego booster. He built himself up on my love, caring, and idolization of him…now bi-curious, Thumbellina is reaping the harvest of my investment. Whatever it was worth. LOL…it’s so much like what NML says. Thanks to me, and probably others, he’s ready to be her ideal mate. Wonder if I should charge a fee? LOL
Alli
Sorry about that last post…I’m feeling a lot of anger today…it’s not about her. It’s about me and my foolishness. I’m hating the fact that all I wanted was him and it’s not enough…not enough and this is the most valuable thing I had to give him. It’s so difficult to realize that you just weren’t the one for him when I…
oh well…she’s the one now. She knew to just move in…I hope she gets more than I did. I always told him that I would never compete with other women. I never felt that it should have to come to that. I’ve been known to walk away from a man who’s involved with someone else. This was a good way to get rid of me. Maybe that’s why he didn’t feel the need to say anything…just give me a hint and I’m gonna re-coil. That’s what I did in fear of rejection…I never pressed the issues. I’m so mad about that.
You know I don’t mean that either. I’m going to try to push down the negativity. I can be harsh…I don’t like that.
@TJ – I have a question for you: since both dwelling on bad memories or physical activity release endorphins into your blood (so does any kind of repetitive movement, right?), why would a person tend toward one versus the other? I’m a die-hard runner. Definitely addicted, because neither weather nor minor injury deters me from heading up to the mountains. Why hasn’t it replaced that compulsion to go into the dark places within myself and relive painful things? I’ve read that runners are basically people with compulsive tendencies, who have chosen a healthier addiction than some of the others. So what gives?
Why gravitate towards one and not the other? I’d say habit. It’s so much easier for me personally to sit and dwell than it is to motivate myself to exert myself. I’m not a biochemist, but there are two brain chemicals at play: endorphins and serotonin. Sometimes we try to “self-medicate†two ways: by obsessing on thoughts, or dwelling on painful experiences (repetitive movements like knitting or even sweeping releases serotonin). Also, with endorphins, just like any drug, you build up a tolerance so to speak.
It’s hard to explain here in the “short form”. I’m in a recovery group that’s about breaking all addictions, whether it’s alcohol, drugs, behaviors, shopping, people, drama, sugar, etc. I feel I have broken the “addiction” to the drama the AC/EUM bring. Sometimes I’m tempted to take a “hit” (which I think this website gives me) but overall, I can’t imagine going down that path again.
This is so true it made me sick…
@Anusha
After reading NML’s post ‘How I learned to love myself’ I took an honest inventory of my life and made a decision take responsibility for my embittered disposition. The process of rooting out relationships and environments that were having a negative impact on my life was easier than I thought. If it made me wince, feel dread or drained…it was nixed!
On the flip-side I started working on my ‘Bucket List.’ I’m 40 and healthy, so why not start now? The cool thing about this exercise is that I found myself inviting others to join me on the various kooky adventures: Skydived with my daughter on Mother’s day; took kayaking lessons with my GF; and visited the #2 water park in the world with my little ones. Without realizing it I was reconnecting with the people in my life on a positive note. Incrementally my relationships and self-esteem began healing and improving: I wasn’t so focused on the negative.
I tell my GFs all the time, “They may have got our childhood, but we are responsible for our adulthood!â€
We set the standard for our quality of life, which is why we have boundaries. And once established it is up to us to maintain those standards / boundaries. When we allow them to become compromised: Hello sickly sweet feeling of dread, disappointment and disgrace!
@ butterfly – for example,guy at the gym who is married is chatting me up and flirting while his wife is there with him. I basically ignore him and have a great conversation with his wife who is a really lovely lady and brill to talk to. He tries all sorts to get my attention and eventually moves to another woman who is willing to talk to him.
Find this behaviour of him quite strange .
I just refuse to get furthr involved as to talk about the weather if I know a guy is married. It’s strictly hands off, but unfortunately it just happens that one gets approached by all sorts all the time.
But I have the luxury to choose and after EUM, Narcissist and Assclown, I will choose very carefully.
@PlanetJane – I haven’t been reading consistantly, so I missed your post. I’m so sorry you’re sad. Sometimes I think a broken heart never really goes away, it just hurts less often. Just when you think you’re okay, it creeps up behind you and wacks you over the head again. No matter what a piece of crap they’ve been, we have still given them a part of ourselves we can never get back.
We keep so many secrets about our f**ked up relationships that if we don’t tell someone sometime we might explode or worse. Please lean on us. I won’t give you platitudes, but you can always get sympathetic listeners here. I hope you’re okay.
TJ wrote this
“Why gravitate towards one and not the other? I’d say habit. It’s so much easier for me personally to sit and dwell than it is to motivate myself to exert myself. I’m not a biochemist, but there are two brain chemicals at play: endorphins and serotonin. Sometimes we try to “self-medicate†two ways: by obsessing on thoughts, or dwelling on painful experiences (repetitive movements like knitting or even sweeping releases serotonin). Also, with endorphins, just like any drug, you build up a tolerance so to speak.”
THis is really interesting and I never really knew this. One of the things that frustrated me about the EUM was his comfort in being depressed and stuck on his painful thoughts and past experiences. It was like he enjoyed being unhealthy, and pain was so familiar to him it was comforting. Of course, the danger of this is that i got pulled into the despair and eventually it was too hard for me to maintain my good cheer.
I found that for the first few months of NC I would, either upon waking, or falling asleep , often “conjure up” the pain of the EUM experience by thinking about him/ it/ the whole shebang. It was odd in that I was seeking some comfort by doing it, and getting a bit of some odd comfort, but I also knew it was completely illogical and ultimately unsatisfying to seek comfort by staying with the pain of the whole experience. I have ever though of pain or anger as an addictive force. Guess that might also explain right wing agitating hate radio too. EUM was fond of that junk.
One thing I will say about my one and only EUM experience. As awful as it was it was also fascinating all along in some way, maybe at being exposed to some of the darkest stuff I have ever been through. NOT saying one should ever willingly put themselves through it a second time around, but as far as learning experiences go it was a doozy. What I learned above all is to value my emotional and physical health and sanity above all else, to hold on tight onto those things.
@Jetred
It’s Ok to get angry sometimes! Especially when we have been dealing with men who don’t respect us, don’t respect our boundaries, and use us for their own gain. as NML says: “If you and your man do not share basic fundamentals that yield two people with both of their feet in the relationship that share the common interest of loving, caring about, respecting, and trusting one another, no matter how many ‘interests’ you claim to have in ‘common’, you don’t have things in common where it counts.”
We don’t have enough of what counts in common with these guys!!!
I wish I was like you, and able to walk away right away when you know another woman is involved. if I had done that, i wouldn’t be in this mess to begin with!!! I have a feeling that my ex also got a bit of an ego boost from our “interactions”, and may feel more confident now to find his next OW (yuck!!)
OK, I’m talking about *him* too much already – time to get the focus back to *us*. I think I’m going to find a nice glass of wine that’s compatible with my mood right now
Have a great evening all!!
Meant
@Jetred you’re making me cry. I wasn’t going to cry since I’ve been busy convincing myself that I have entered the Phoenix-rising-from-the-ashes stage of all this, but I think I’m full of s..*t, because I’m sitting here bawling into my Unsalted Saltine Crackers (who comes up with these names??) and I must have read this paragraph half a dozen times now.
“I’m hating the fact that all I wanted was him and it’s not enough…not enough and this is the most valuable thing I had to give him. It’s so difficult to realize that you just weren’t the one for him when I…”
We had told each other everything, or at least at the time it felt like everything. He didn’t try to “fix†me just as I didn’t want to “fix†him. We were both able to step out of our overachieving A-type personalities in front of each other and get goofy or cheesy or just laugh so hard we would snort. I loved his intelligence and insight and encouraged him to do what he loved and not what paid six figures. I didn’t think that “upgrading†to a house with a pool was more important than a life-long dream of getting a pilot’s license. He had been shy about getting soft around the middle and I thought that was silly because I loved him exactly the way he was.
But none of that was enough. Or maybe it was too much. When I started the NC silence a part of me had hoped that – like me – he would come to realize that finding all those things in another person was one of a kind and irreplaceable and worth pursuing. Now I’m realizing that all that I had given of myself wasn’t what he wanted. They all just happened to be things that came in the 6-foot tall blond package.
My having said good-bye first took a lot of work out of this for him, didn’t it? No need to make up a story now as to why 2K miles is too far to get to you “soul mateâ€.
Boy was I sticking my hand out when our Maker gave out naïve.
@ Aega,
“Boy was I sticking my hand out when our Maker gave out naïve.”
What a beautiful turn of phrase!
Be careful about what you change. Being naive, if you stay around good people, is a healthy and happy way to live. Once we find our partner, build our home – we should be naive about the whole outside world, while being intensely aware of our family and our partner.
But until we weed out the people we dare not trust or respect, naive does risk getting us hurt.
@brokenheartedbabble – “No matter what a piece of crap they’ve been, we have still given them a part of ourselves we can never get back.”
Thanks so much. Funny. I’m feeling so much better today. It helped me to get to the very basics. And it helped for me to say, “I WISH I could be emotional with him” because that is the basis of our relationship and my pain. He never “allowed” me, in the relationship to feel…to want anything, to expect anything of him. He is so EU that, not only his but, MY feelings made him uncomfortable – ESPECIALLY my feelings actually, and I can’t be in that relationship – I’m NOT in it, even if I am in it.
He hasn’t taken anything from me. I’ve found something because of him. I have every right to feel WHATEVER it is that I’m feeling. I don’t have to act on my feelings. But the people who care about me will want to know…and will foster my feelings for them.
He’s an emotional cripple. He’s about 3 years old. And this is not anger, it’s empowerment. I feel GOOD today for the first time in a long time. No one will ever take that from me again.
I only hope I’ll be able to let someone in who truly deserves it. Only time will tell that one.
LUV.
@aphrogirl — pain is highly addictive! If you Google “Pain Addiction Armand DiMele” there’s a good article that explains it:
“Emotional pain can become an addiction. A negative feeling, such as anger, worry, grief, fear, or depression, can become so habitual that you cannot live without it…. The feelings of love and pain are so frequently associated that they become one and the same. Loving unavailable people and staying in intolerable relationships, for example, are signs that love and pain have become intertwined. ”
I believe that the AC/EUM cause us very deep pain and this explains why it’s so hard to let it go– especially if we have to go “cold turkey” with NC– and we crave just a little fix, just a word, just a text… one email… just something.. a little something..!!!
If you think about it, the way we behave with an AC/EUM is very much like an addict:
-The person becomes obsessed (constantly thinks of) the object, activity, or substance.
-They will seek it out, or engage in the behavior even though it is causing harm
-Upon cessation of the activity, withdrawal symptoms often occur.
-The person does not appear to have control as to when, how long, or how much he or she will continue the behavior.
I’ve gone through an addiction recovery program and was shocked to see how “addicted” I was to the AC/EUM types, not only in romantic relationships but also friends, bosses, family members. I’m at a stage where I am hyper-aware of the AC types. I think eventually this hatred of them will ease but right now I am very angry. ( I wonder if hating him is just another way to get my little “pain fix”? Possibly)
I have a hard time “trusting” people who are friendly towards him, though I have to remember that few know the whole story. I have noticed he is working very hard to play Mr Charming. When he preyed on me, his act was Mr. Pitiful.
Someone mentioned that it’s kind of odd that he even instantly recovered from an “injury” he used to talk about and play up to gain attention and sympathy.
I am still feeling duped and conned as I see him play his Mr Charming act, as though nothing happened, or as though *I* had the problem. I kept saying to myself, “he should feel ashamed of his behavior!” and I’m still angry that he “got away with” how he behaved and treated me but I have learned that, him being a sociopath means he has no feelings.
@ TJ don’t feel duped and conned when you see him doing his Mr Charming act. You have to keep in mind that those people only see the surface of him and they don’t have the knowledge about people with personality disorders we have, because we lived with them.
The Narcissist I was with, acted in exactly the same way and fooled a lot of people for many years.
But eventually their world will be collapsing, because eventually “normal”people will see through them and realize what scum they are. It might take a while, but believe me one day they will be very alone.
TJ what a wonderful post. Thank you – every day something else makes more sense (not about any man, that bit makes perfect sense now, about what I need to do about myself).
There’s a guy I like. I’d not normally go for this type – steady, dependable, definitely got integrity given the work he does – we don’t have hobbies in common but I feel at ease with him … yet not “home” or “connected” in the usual way. He is a little shy and hesitant under an everyday confident exterior (again, job). I actually really thought he was very attractive and wouldn’t ever have looked at me because in the past he would not … maybe I have changed in ways I can’t see myself?
My friend said to me last night “You know what? You’ve finally moved on.” and I am not sure if I totally agree with him but … well, we’ll see. Nice and slowly.
Oh gosh, I miss his voice…just want one touch. I may just truly hate him right now. Going back to bed…I can’t handle the waking up as realizing it’s not a nightmare…its what I’m left with.
Oh gosh, I miss his voice…just want one touch. I may just truly hate him right now. Going back to bed…I can’t handle the waking up as realizing it’s not a nightmare…its what I’m left with.
Man, aren’t we having a week, Ladies? Onward to the next…please!
oops…can’t even comment correctly today…Sorry.
@Jetred I remember this phase – being so so so so tired but dreading going to sleep, thinking about the situation, then waking up feeling not great but not bad and then BANG the thump in the solar plexus.
It passes. It does. You can’t see it or imagine it, but it DOES.
I did a little exercise just now – on my mobile phone there is a little game, I was playing it when I was ill and we were “not getting along” as he put it. He threw a crumb to my desperately sad ill self and I remember playing this game and thinking “it’s ok it’s still ok”.
I tried to put myself mentally back in that place – lying on the sofa by the window, listening to the music of the game, reassured. A funny thing happened … yes I had instant recall but I FELT BLOODY AWFUL. Life at that time was horrible, with all the drama and pain. How can I miss that? I don’t. More to the point, you don’t either, you just haven’t got to that state of being. Keep NC. Focus on something else, maybe your favourite song? That’s the voice of an abuser and a skank, with a festering fly ridden crotch
Thanks again TJ, between this infomation about pain addiction and what you said earlier there’s not been a lightbulb moment, it’s like all the floodlights in a football stadium just shone right in my face.
@everyone
This IS an addiction, and one that I thought I was getting over. I was feeling so strong from reading your stories and advice, and NML’s posts, knowing full well that I am NOT compatible with his bullsh*t, knowing that interacting with him can only hurt me, and also feeling kind of repulsed by him (especially with Butterfly’s visual of the festering fly-ridden crotch!).
Last night, I was missing the ex like crazy – partly because I am staying in a hotel that we have been at together in the past. I am also PMSing, so anyway, I re-added him to MSN and had an online chat with him for about half an hour. We mostly talked about the conference coming up (which we have both been planning and we’ll be facilitating), but we also reminisced a bit about previous conferences (which are occasions we usually “get together”), and he shared some music he had been listening to lately. So it was definitely not “strictly business”.
I don’t feel like have have “gone back to square one” as far as my feelings go, although, like you Jetred, I am now craving his touch, hearing his voice, and smelling his skin. I have not thought through yet where to go from here.
Can someone tell me if this means I have completely broken NC – do I have to start again? I am so ashamed of myself!!!
@Meant – yes you broke NC…but pick right up and start again.
Yes we miss them but we need to focus on what we DON’T miss and the negative aspects of what it did to us…instead of what we miss. Much easier said than done.
Yes, this is all very addicting. I broke NC twice…and had the sadness, frustration and embarrassment all over again. I can only assume it is like an alcoholic having a drink after a short period of time of sobriety…the shame, guilt, frustration and feeling out of control.
Stay strong…thank you everyone. You all really help.
I think it helps if you think the cost it will be to break NC.I do have thought about it a lot lately and sometimes the craving is so strong that I have to restrain myself from going after him.But then I think to myself “ok if I contact him I will get rid of that umcomfortable felling but I will also put myself back on something that is so bad for me”.Is realy worth to go back to all those disapointment,anger,hurt and so on just for that? I know the craving doesnt fell nice but is better stick to that (that eventualy will pass) than going back to the emotional atachment with the EUM.And dont beat yourself up for had broke NC,it happens.Be kind to yourself and jump back in
This is a bit off topic but I really need to vent so apologies in advance.
I’ve been having a FWB thing with my ex AC for a number of years – it’s suited me to some extent. The AC’s current main woman doesn’t live here but visits him every few weeks, in between visits he and I meet. She doesn’t know this but has always said she’ll kill him if he sleeps with anyone else especially me. Now though she’s starting to behave in a way that is worrying me and I don’t know what to do.
I live abroad in a community where everyone knows each other, some people become friends, others acquaintances. I go to a friend’s bar regularly, the other woman has taken to going there too when she is visiting, I ignore her when she does. I went to a party there this week, she turned up bringing the AC (who hates going to this bar) with her and plonked herself and him in front of me. I was annoyed but ignored them and carried on talking to another friend. Then she came over and thrust her phone number into the hand of my friend telling her to get in touch. Friend looked a bit surprised and took the number, half an hour later the other woman came over again, leaned in front of me and asked my friend for her number. By now steam was coming out of my ears!
I considered throwing a drink over her, telling her that leaning in front of anyone was just rude, but decided to maintain my dignity, rise above it and say nothing. Then I felt a wimp for saying nothing, Now I’m just confused and depressed and a bit insecure.
Nowhere is free it seems, wherever I go she is there, I don’t talk to her, I don’t talk to him, now I can’t even talk to my friends in peace!
Anyway sorry, I’m embarrassed to talk to anyone about it, it seems so childish, as I write this I can’t believe it’s about three people over 40. I was alright with the FWB thing but this situation is ridiculous.
@Kimba – “Yes we miss them but we need to focus on what we DON’T miss and the negative aspects of what it did to us…instead of what we miss.”
@Anusha – “Is really worth to go back to all those disapointment,anger,hurt and so on just for that?”
Yeah! I think these are very important points in maintaining NC. It is excruciating at times to cut all contact, to not reply to contact and especially to know that it is permanent – that you are putting the eum/ac out of your life forever. It is a huge loss, and so many emotions come into play – and grief. But I always remind myself that if I go back now…one day – y’all ladies know this sh*te will happen again (it is an undeniable pattern with these guys) – we will have to start over! Do you really want to have to go through ALL THIS again?! It will get better! IT WILL. Please just hang in there for a better life. I’ll try and do the same
Luv.
@Sadthing –
Sounds like a mess…and a lot of drama for a FWB situation. Are you sure it’s worth it? If you don’t have feelings for the ac, it seems like it would be easy for you to just end it. If you do – and I think you probably do – you probably shouldn’t be in a FWBS, and should take a break and rethink if you really want to be the OW in this threesome – cuz that is what you are. Easier said than done, I know and sorry to be so blunt, but I have the luxury of being an outsider – and wanting the best for all fbgs on this site. Let me know what you think!
@sadthing
Oh honey. Is one man worth this?
@ PJ and Butterfly, thanks and you are both right, he’s not worth the drama that seems to be heading my way. But there’s the addiction part which I can’t quite get over.
The posts above talk about this and I know it’s true, and I also know that I don’t want her to ‘win’ – ha, win an AC, what a prize!
I keep telling myself that I will not stoop to her level, I will never fight over a man especially one I know no-one could never have a successful relationship with because he’s an EUM with spots on – but boy is it difficult not to want to murder the scheming manipulative controlling insecure ugly witch – ooops seem to have lost the plot, and to think I felt sorry for her last week. Grrr
@kimba, Anusha and PJ – thank you for your replies and support. I know and agree with everything you all said. The craving is still there though, just like it is for sadthing – that terrible “addiction part” that seems stronger than me right now
I *know* I should just forgive myself and get right back on the NC wagon. My mind has been telling me annoying nonsense lately, like “maybe one more time with him wouldn’t be so bad” and “if you don’t get together with him, he will find another OW at the conference, and how will that feel?” I am *so* pathetic that I am concerned about this man, who belongs to someone else anyway, finding a new partner. And all this even though I now know he is an AC. What the hell is wrong with me???
Meant to be Happy-That is normal behaviour,we keep expecting things will be diferent and say those things to ourselves to justificate to continue invested.But you know they wont be,he is a AC and wont change.I do worry about my ex finding somebody else too but is like NML said,if he does she just will go trough everything you did.So you shouldnt want to be in her place.See from this side,she will be suffering with a AC while you will be there free to find a emotionaly avaliable man and get the love you deserve.So who is in a better position?
@Anusha,
Yes, you are right. I must be a slow learner because I have to hear these same ideas many times to sink into my brain!!! Thank you for asking that last question – if I can maintain NC, *I* will be in a better position!!!
Hi All,
Back from my hols and catching up, so forgive me if my comments are not up to speed. (I’ve only read through quickly).
But I just felt a bit pushed to say: from what I pick up, whatever the actual topic, NML’s posts are so often about US looking honestly at ourselves, our expectations, behaviours, wants and illusions. One of the big “things” comes across is our need to be honest with ourselves, in the privacy of our own minds at least.
But is there a part of some of us that believes “love” has to be painful, stressful, traumatic? Is there something in some of us that needs to struggle and compete to make it “worth having”?
I ask not to criticise (sadthing and Anusha) but because for years I battled to get a very dear friend of mine to see the truth about her marriage – which finished 6 months after starting, but didn’t officially end for a further 13 years as she allowed the SadSack to visit every now and again.
She claimed that it was because “it suited her. It fitted in with what she wanted”. Errrr, no, actually.
It brought her years of pain, unhappiness, prevention of starting something good with someone good – and finally, when his new woman found out about her, it turned her into the tacky OW and caused such vitriolic backlashes in her life she sometimes dared not go out of her door for fear of running into new woman’s angry friends…
To me, sadthing, it sounds like you are on the start of that particular journey: his woman DOES know about you, she just has no proof yet. Most likely, she’ll squeeze the truth out of him during some screaming match one night very soon… and then, God Forbid, but are you ready for what you’ll face at that time? Will it have been worth it – the odd visit from an EU/AC looking for a bit of shufty?
I cannot for the life of me understand how a man who made you unhappy in your relationship can make you in any way happy out of it!
Now, as I say sweetheart, I’m not criticising, and most certainly not judging (who the hell would I be to judge anyone on this earth?); but I would encourage you to look at your view of this relationship – do you enjoy the trauma, drama, stress, pain? Is that your interpretation of “love”?
The answer is for you alone to know, your business entirely. But at least in knowing you’d be able to do what NML seems to want us to do: be 100% honest with yourself.
Perhaps you’ll say, “Yes, actaully, I do enjoy the drama, and the trauma that will follow is exciting and I can handle it”. In which case I’d say, “Good for you. Go for it, Babes, and enjoy”.
But, from what I know of you on here, I don’t think you will enjoy the brown stuff hitting the fan. I don’t believe you think he is worth it in any way at all. And I don’t believe he or anything about him makes you happy to any degree whatsoever.
We have to look coldly and clearly at what “we have/had” with these men: it’s crap and the good bits were created by us anyway! The more I look at it, the more I believe women’s wonderful imaginations and expectations can create stories, fantasies and illusions that leave Emma Bronte, Disney and David Blane standing!
While on hols, I had the great misfortune to read what my sister calls her “smelly mags” (Take A Break, it’s life! and such rot), and my sister has an absolute riot tracking the “women who love Turkish Waiters they met on holiday”. Women in their 70′s marrying Turkish Waiters of 23 and trying to get permission for their “husbands” to join them in the U.K. (while sending money abroad to help him finance his “sick mother”); the 27 stone woman who has been alone for 12 years but gets proposed to on her second night at the Turkish hotel…. and whose husband hates taking her money and wouldn’t if he didn’t have a disabled sister to look after…
It’s blindingly OBVIOUS to any and all who read such trot to see the abusive and nasty game being played on these women right from the start; but they won’t hear a word: they KNOW it’s love and no one can tell them any different!
Well, some of us are doing the very same thing – but it’s not so blindingly obvious: OUR users are not 40 years younger than us, bankrupting us, looking for residency where we live…. but they are playing EXACTLY the same nasty game on us!!!
We should at least be prepared to acknowledge to ourselves that “love this ain’t” and “satisfying he ain’t and never was” but “it’s better than nothing/I’m afraid of being alone/I like the painful adventure of it”.
Then we can get on and enjoy the trauma/drama of it all.
Otherwise, please, NO CONTACT. At all. Ever. Cut loose and leave them to the poor women who “won”.
And Thank God all over again it wasn’t us!
Whatever you do sadthing and Anusha, be happy and do take care of yourselves. You’re the ones we give a damn about on here.
Love, Leonine.
Sorry, I did (of course) mean Emily Bronte – jet lag!
love, Leonine
@Meant – “I *know* I should just forgive myself and get right back on the NC wagon. My mind has been telling me annoying nonsense lately, like “maybe one more time with him wouldn’t be so bad†and “if you don’t get together with him, he will find another OW at the conference, and how will that feel?†I am *so* pathetic that I am concerned about this man, who belongs to someone else anyway, finding a new partner. And all this even though I now know he is an AC. What the hell is wrong with me???”
@Anusha – “Meant to be Happy-That is normal behaviour,we keep expecting things will be diferent and say those things to ourselves to justificate to continue invested.But you know they wont be,he is a AC and wont change.I do worry about my ex finding somebody else too but is like NML said,if he does she just will go trough everything you did.So you shouldnt want to be in her place.See from this side,she will be suffering with a AC while you will be there free to find a emotionaly avaliable man and get the love you deserve.So who is in a better position?”
It’s exactly where I am, and I know exactly, exactly how you feel. A lot of the time – and it is getting longer and longer – I’m strong, I am. I feel fine, I know I’m doing the right thing, but a little wayward thought will creep in there, and all of a sudden I’m hurting. I really can’t stand the thought of him being with this other girl. This other girl is an old “friend” who, basically listened to me talk about my feelings for him one night, and then within days, called him up, asked him out and started sleeping with him. It’s HARD to get over that. She “won” him. I’m the loser. But, like Anusha says, I KNOW I have to move on. I’ve known for a long time that I need to move on. The only way to do that is NC. It’s HARD. It is. And when it comes down to it…he’s not contacting me…he could not care less about me. And that’s hard. But I have to accept it for me – and the rules of NC provide a structure to cling to in times of weakness. Go ahead and doubt and panic and grieve and lament and worry and stress and cry and long and wish and feel guilty and make excuses…just don’t contact him, and don’t respond to him.
Luv.
@PJ
“It’s HARD. It is. And when it comes down to it…he’s not contacting me…he could not care less about me. And that’s hard. But I have to accept it for me”
Thank you for this. For some reason your post brought tears to my eyes. Maybe it is partly PMS, but maybe it’s just relief that you understand all too well what I’m going through. I feel so bad for you that your ex is now with your friend. I sooo fear how that would feel.
Hugs to you,
Meant XO
PlanetJane-”And when it comes down to it…he’s not contacting me…he could not care less about me. And that’s hard. But I have to accept it for me”
I know it fells like he doesnt care because he isnt contacting you while you are in NC,my ex isnt contacting me either(besides the text about soccer a month ago).And yes it used to bother me but try to see if this way,if he contact you would be able to resist? I dont know if I would because even though I know I should Im still not over him and have low days,so maybe if he contact me on one of those days I wouldnt resist.So them not contacting us actualy is something good,it makes our route on the healing way easier.It keep us on the right track,try to see it from this side.
Aega,
“I’m missing my bozo, too. (Brad, . . ., I have you to blame for the nickname…)”
Well, I guess I have to accept the blame, then.
But do remember what is in a name. I have no relationship to someone that sounds inept, ignorant, and hurtful. When I say clown or bozo, that is a mild term for someone that hasn’t done me harm.
But I respect NML’s terms, EUM, Assclown – these are very strong words. When they apply to someone in your life, use them. Using the strong word every time you think of him reminds you of the harm he has done. When I help one of my neighbors work his cows, I tend to call them names – Precious and Pretty, mostly. Maybe Dear. I want to hear myself treasure the animals when I address them, so that I treat them with respect and joy. And generally I have fun driving, sorting, and helping to handle the cows.
When you are separating from someone hurtful, it helps to hear yourself use a name appropriate to the hazard he represents to your life. Bozo and clown are laughable, disrespectful but not serious. Assclown is clearly vulgar and unacceptable, clearly like the bozo that has wasted so much of your time, energy, and pain.
Blessed be.
@Butterfly…
” That’s the voice of an abuser and a skank, with a festering fly ridden crotch.”
I’m still sitting here laughing loudly every time I think of this line. You’ve got a way with words, dearie! So funny…you’ll keep me laughing through this horrible N/C won’t you? Not a bad idea. Thanks so much. He’s a waste of my time and thoughts. I know it’s gonna get better, I’m just not there yet. Such a despicable way to treat someone…especially me! I didn’t deserve toying with…and he never deserved someone like me. Waste of just about everything, as he doesn’t amount to much. And I’m still thinking about him, anyhow.
Sorry just ranting. Take care today everyone.
I married an assclown/bozo/skank, divorced him after 12 years. I’ve just got away from an abuser/assclown/EUM par excellence after 5 years. In both relationships I was the one doing the work, I had to reel them in and hold them here, even though they said they loved me, wanted to be with me. Both times the breakup cost me my home and left me penniless and holding the baby (literally in the case of my husband). Both times I did all the emotional labour and had to work hard at getting them to ‘open up’ despite them saying they were in pain and needed someone to share it with. Maybe they both ‘shared’ with the other women they were knocking off. So, I decided after #2 – no more. I’m OK by myself and not interested in being held back any more. Until X comes into my life, a few weeks ago. X made it clear from the start he was interested, and I made it clear I was not. He is not My Type. Ho Ho. Thanks NML for these latest posts. To answer the person who wondered if she was becoming emotionally unavailable, to tell what the difference is between EU and cautious in yourself/needy and confident in him, I say “Can he look you in the eye and not be afraid to be himself?”. Wow. What a difference it is, too. Yes, I was the one saying “it’s too soon, I need to have my space, I can’t talk about it, it’s private”. I think it happens when you lose trust in yourself, when you realise you can’t believe anyone any more. But kind, gentle, mature X was not going to be the pushover to my EU behaviour. He said “I know you are in pain and I know how hard it is for you to deal with it. But if you don’t open up and tell me how can I understand the best way to hold your heart safe? I’m not going to stand in the corner and wait, but I don’t want to miss this opportunity.” I realised I was at risk of punishing the person who should be my saviour. Already the difference is stunning. And guess what? He IS my type after all. I’m not sure I would have seen it without this site. Great, great stuff. I am having a wonderful time with a wonderful man who respects me, adores me and stands up to me, all at the same time as making me feel safe and gorgeous. It’s possible. Hang on in there!
Prickly
I often wishes there were more posts on this site about good
outcomes from learning about EUM. Today I realized that i have the EUM to thank for me being very very clear about what I am looking for as I am single for the first time in 30 years.
Thanks for sharing. What your story says to me is that the man is self confident and emotionally aware enough to be conscious of your feelings as well as his. Does this make him perfect for you ? Ahhh, only time will tell but…. so far he is not EUM and for that reason alone I am breathing a sigh of relief for you, cause EUM’S are a PIA, or worse !
Hey everyone! I haven’t posted in a while. I just wanted to see if my EUM really was one since it had been the first go around at the whole breaking up no contact thing. Well sure enough I let him back in and it was all “oh I missed you so much” and ” I have feelings for you that I had never felt before and thats why i pulled away/broke up with you” I really wanted to believe him. He did seem different to me for a bit, like a few weeks, but for the last few days it seems like its back to the old ass clownery behavior. I even got a call from him this morning which I didnt answer and didnt return because he didnt leave a message. But a few minutes later he sends me a text asking if I can talk and making it sound kind of important. I swait a few minutes then call him only to have him basically have nothing to say except to tell me what he is doing today ( which wasnt anything exciting) and he will call me later and then sounded like he wanted to get off the phone quickly. WTF?? Crazy! So now I know and am whatever about him. Thank you so much for this site!!! I would have been completely blindsided by this hot and cold shit. Stupid!
Anyway, I have someone else now who I have a mututal flirtation going on with ( i know im being long winded but im getting to the good part) well he works with my AC. I dont think they see eachother often and since I was always kept such a secret by my AC I dont think he or anyone else who works with him knows that we were ever going out.
So Question 1: Am i just playing with fire here? If it should go beyond flirting should I some clean right away that I was seeing this other person? Will this just make me look like some slut or someone who is going with a better option because AC didnt know a good thing when he had it? I would never bad mouth AC to this new guy or anything I would just keep it at it didnt work out.
Question 2: How do I know that this guy isnt an AC also? I mean do we have to get so involved before we find out? Is EVERY guy who flirts AC? Is that just their M.O.? I just hadnt really had the AC experience before this last one, my past relationships started differently I guess. Like meeting someone and being asked on a date soon after, ya know? Ok sorry for the long post
@ Leonine
Thanks for your comments, I hope I’m not in for trauma, drama, stress and pain in the future as I really don’t enjoy it, but you’re probably right in that on some level I’m more comfortable with this than anything else as I grew up in a house full of it.
I can see that the relationship between the AC and the scary woman is the same as that between my father (EUM supremo) and scary stepmother. My stepmother was like a spitting cat when it came to competing with me for my father’s attention and guess what? 40 years later here I am again, only this time I am armed with knowledge and the help of this site. Thanks again.
@ Prickly
Great story and very uplifting to hear. Your comment about always having to ‘reel them in’ reminded me of something my stepmother said when advising me on how to deal with the AC’s hot and cold behaviour ‘they are scared deep down so you need to reel them in gently, I to do this with your father’ Subsequently both my Dad and the AC said ‘once a woman gets her hooks into you there is no escape’ – there is though a guaranteed future of pain and misery trying to please them.
NO, NO, NO -you should not have to reel them in at all, they should be splashing and swimming towards you with enthusiasm, no need for hooks at all.
“NO, NO, NO -you should not have to reel them in at all, they should be splashing and swimming towards you with enthusiasm, no need for hooks at all. ”
Sadthing, well said and what a great visual, thanks for that one. Love is supposed to be healthy fun and engaging, and not filled with weak efforts, disappointment and pain. And we are capable of deciding who we choose to share our time with.
sadthing,
please get away from these two quickly and quitely. Neither are any good for you – alone or together. What a horrible pair, and what a horrible r/s, and what a horrible way of going on. You really don’t need any part of that.
I understand that our upbringings have had a deep impact on how we recreate our relationships as adults – but, before now, we didn’t understand that. Certainly I didn’t. My parents have been together for over 54 years and, while they wouldn’t see each other hurt or ail, they hate each other on a day to day level. Like you, my expectation of what a r/s is going to be like comes from that…
But not now I understand the how and why of that; and, thanks to this site and its wonderful posters who are always so ready to share, I’m learning more and more all the time.
I now declare – hand on heart – that if the option is to live in a r/s like my parents (or many of the other relationships I’ve witnessed throughout my years) I’d rather stay by myself.
Actually, I like my life. I could do with earning a lot more money (lol) but, apart from that, I enjoy me, my daughter, our animals, getting out and about, writing, doing my own thing…
I hate what these eejits do to my life and how they make me feel – or, maybe, rather how I make me feel over a dopey nobody who was my own mental creation anyway.
I’m promising myself everyday now that the very MOMENT some guy makes me feel “maluky” in any way whatsoever, about anything at all – HE’S OUT. No more. I’m not working to clean up my life, self and mind just to let it be soiled again by a ninny of any description.
A friend and most certainly a Lover/Husband/Partner should add to life, not detract from it; not mar and disrupt it.
Will you please stay away from this man, sadthing, forever? Leave him to the awful creature screeching and scrawling around him right now – they deserve each other.
You deserve way, way better.
love, Leonine.
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