Butterfly-

This is how we end up suckered in feeding the ego of someone who seems like a great guy – to everyone else – but who treats you very poorly.

But, like many of us here, when you realized you wanted more than you were getting and when you told him that …. he was not willing to give it, nor very clearly tell you that he was not willing to give you what you want. “Take care for now” sounds to me means he is managing the relationship – You told him your heart is telling you it does not want it to end, but by saying those words he told you he was ending it for now but maybe you’d connect again later.

So, It’s up to him I guess to decide. Or maybe he figures she’ll be back… and that is something to think about, This kind of answer to a serious comment makes me feel like an unequal partner; he is making the decisions, managing the relationship with rather trite “lines” and intelligent communication about the relationship is not part of it.

If you landed here on a random web search consider yourself lucky. Many women have some degree of Fallback Girl in them, and the author of most of the posts, NML, has written a whole book on that subject.

I have commented many times here as I struggled with the ending of a relationship with a man whom I believed I shared a very deep and special connection with. If you have decided to go NC, because you see that this man is not looking for a serious, respectful and committed relationship with you then keep reading this site.

I found that The EUM excels at ambiguity and that kept me wondering and waiting and hoping. Months after NC I still struggle to understand all the implications of the difficult relationship I put myself through, Writing and reading here is really helpful. These days, whenever useless ruminations pop into my mind I repeated this statement “outloud” in my head ________is not willing to work to have a kind honest relationship with me.” That was the truth, reality keeps me focused on moving forward with NC.

Good luck.

I really feel like the reason why I want to get back with him is because I feel that I finally found someone that I connected with and was attracted to after a couple of years of searching. He was outgoing, easy to be around and talk to, seemed like he had a close relationship with family, seemed like a great father, successful etc… When I think back I realize that he never really gave me any reason to think I was going to be “the one” but I continued to think if I just relaxed and was patient with him I would not push him away and he would pick me in the end. I keep hoping that if “playing the field” is what he wants to do right now that he will do it and realize that he let a good thing go too soon but then I wonder if he would ever be able to admit that to me or not if that was ever the case….my mind won’t stop…I keep thinking of this over and over.

After we had our last conversation (with the statistics and such) I sent him a text letting him know that I appreciated his open and honest communciation. I also told him that my heart was telling me that this was a mistake and it was too soon to end and that if he found himself feeling the same way and it wasnlt too late that I would be open to hearing rom him. He responded thanking me for my text, wishing me well and said “take care for now”…what des that mean? Of course I am hanging onto the “for now” part….I just don’t understand how someone can tell me that like a puzzle almost all of the pieces fit but there was something missing he couldn’t put his finger on….I feel like the pieces that were missing were all of the things I didn;t get a chance to show because he wasn’t “allowing” us to go to the next step by keeping the distance.

What could some of the reasons be as to why he loved down the street and we knew we would be spending the night with each other but he wanted us to meet at the restaurant vs. picking me up?

I also keep thinking about our lack of day or Sat. night dates. He told me that since he had his kids half the month, he had to balance the other time with family, friends and dating. All this time I thought well maybe he is living it up on Sat. nights with his friends since he had been married for so long but now I wonder if there was someone else for Sat. nights and I was “Ms. Friday night”

I just wish I could stop this thinking/overthinking….

I am so sorry, but the percentage point method analysis is cruel and hurtful behavior in my book. Cruel because it is disrespectful, puts him in the position of ” evaluating and grading ” the relationship, and this leaves you to be evaluated by his standards, which BTW sound ridiculous to me.

Dunno about you but all I ever want, in any relationship, is to feel an equal partner, someone that will work with me when inevitable disagreements surface. And that means working to define things together; no one partner has the upper hand.

You have been gypped because he raised a silly bar, and never noticed he wanted you to jump for him. Not that you should want to anyways ! Way I see him…, it is all about him, his view point, his evaluation of the relationship, his needs. What I do not see is that key ingredient; working to understand the other and ” make” a realtionship 100% by hard work.

What this site is about is taking a hard look at why you want to get back to a guy like this. I believe the hook with these guys comes from the cycle of acceptance/ rejection. The rejection stuff, especially when subtle like his, is very powerful and can keep one jumping through hoops trying to please.

If you are new here, read all over this site. Lots of posts and storeis about not really being all that happy when in the relaionship.. and then wondering why on earth we would want back in when it’s ” over”.

There are so many great posts and so many stories that may make you see it is probably better he is out of you life.

Recently an old friend of mine started pursuing my eum (after a conversation with me about how much I liked him and had come to want a relationship, even though he would not consent). They’ve developed a sort of relationship, sexual at least (she is also sleeping with a MM), and he has tried in the past few weeks to slowly disengage from me and blow cold – while in his occasional phone conversations with me, blowing hot and even suggesting that he may move to my city (to give me a crumb to hang onto I imagine).

I asked him if things had changed and he was seeing someone else, he said no. However I found out otherwise from a mutual friend – whom he confessed to – and also confessed that he didn’t want a relationship with either one of us. After he found out, that I’d found out and was “very hurt” he called me once (didn’t leave a message) and I didn’t answer – that was about 5 days ago. I had planned on NC and not returning his next call, but that bomb – of him sleeping with my old friend – gave me even more reason, but also more hurt and feelings of powerlessness to deal with my NC.

The problem for me is that I can’t stop thinking about them together and wondering what their relationship is like – is he different with her? Is she what he wants? Does she have something that I don’t that will magically make him settle down? What if they end up together? I know that he wants to start a business, but feels he needs someone to do it with. She actually volunteered right in front of me to go in with him. So this would be a big incentive for him. But her credit is really bad, she’s an ex drug-user, lost her kids and pays child support and has a criminal record (drugs and domestic abuse). She has a bad reputation around their small town. She is incredibly insecure and sleeps around. But she is incredibly talkative and out-going, which I am not.

I’m just so hurt, for so many reasons, and I can’t stop obsessing! I have some good days…or moments, I should say. And I try to look back and remember all the bad things – and there are plenty – and I read this site religiously to remind myself of what’s really happening with this eum. It’s only been about 5 days since I found out about them. When I was trying to figure out what was going on with him – why he was withdrawing – without knowing about the two of them, I was in much more pain, and miserable – but now that I know, my mind just won’t let go of their possible future – or lack thereof. I’m formulating scenarios in my mind regularly. And I’m also making myself feel better by playing the righteous victim.

I’m seeing my regular therapist in a few days. Maybe she’ll have some strategies for me. But does anyone have strategies to stop obsessing?

And at times, I’m like, I’m just gonna have to obsess for a while – I mean, isn’t there a healthy amount of time I can do this?! I can’t just get up, put a game face on and pretend I’m not hurting!

I realise I have always been a pleaser – I think this stems from my brother who was 12 years older than me and very jealous when I was born, my early childhood memories are of him being physically, verbally and psychologically abusive and I remember more than anything wanting him to like me so he would be nice instead, a pattern which extended into life at school where I was simply way too “soft” – as a child I had asthma so bad for most of the summer I had to stay indoors which meant I didn’t get social time or acceptance by peers and as a result was bullied.

My relationships have always been long term and with EUMs, which seems strange that I have managed to get them to actually stick by me – I was always the one to leave and now realise that I am EU myself, staying in relationships where I was devalued – there was always another woman involved even if it was just as friends and higher value placed on her, everyone’s needs were important other than my own – and, typically, the next woman in their lives were treated far better and “I want to do it right for her/make a go of it for her” – wow, thanks!

I’m not proud of what I am about to say. I was in a long term relationship which was pretty much dead – but felt that if I left the guy would flounder too much (manic depressive) and he would tell me he couldn’t live without me. He wasn’t able to have sex, for physical reasons – and at first I thought I could help him with that, but before I knew it many years had passed without sex but with drama and drama after drama. I did leave him, below, he had a new girlfriend within THREE DAYS of me leaving which suggests he had already been looking, whom he also can’t have sex with and whom he complains to me about. I am still in contact with him cos my stuff is still there, I am considering if I should go NC but he isn’t causing me any pain.

Unlike this guy I am now into around 2-3 weeks of NC with (I don’t want to keep count, seems too much concentration on him). I was online with him, got talking and didn’t take much notice at first as we were playing an online game together. Over time tho he got my attention and we moved onto MSN and camera and he was talking about wanting me to be with him, I should be there, the usual rubbish I guess. I thought I had found my soulmate, he wasn’t an attractive guy and just seemed so caring and wonderful and loving …

Little things though. My blood ran cold when he mentioned (how I wish I had listened to that) a girl from his past who “wasn’t very attractive” whom he had bumped into in a bar who had a guy with her who was very angry with him. He purportedly said “Hey, I’m her friend, I want to make sure she’s alright and happy” and then was appalled that this girl’s date “acted like an asshole” towards him.

I should have listened, but I did remember those words. Lots of other things too – “there was this girl who wanted me but she married someone else”, “this girl turned round and slept with my best friend”, and he is still in close daily contact with his major ex, the only one he spent more than a short time with – again, I took this as a sign that he must be a nice guy if they can stay friends.

It was always all about him – he used to actually sing a little song to say so!!!!!!

You know the score already, ran hot hot hot then suddenly “I don’t know what I want, maybe it’s better to end it now before you hate me”. I said fine, forget it then and he cried … and those tears made me stay. Oh if I’d only known, he had never made me cry and I felt terrible – had I known what would happen then I’d have simply cut the call and done NC right then and there.

On off on off – he wouldn’t play the online game any more, had zero interest but wanted me to be in voice in MSN with him whilst he worked – bear in mind this was in the middle of the night for me and I did it because I was often awake early. We had “grown past” that, he said – then the emails went from lots a day to totally ignored and although I was due to fly out to meet him he wouldn’t discuss it, no plans made etc. When I finally did go there he still had no desire to discuss plans. I did get a text when I landed saying “any food requests?”. I mean really!!! It didn’t help that I was already ill with the starts of glandular fever when I arrived, I guess, but his actions were not of his words and I found myself asking him if he was sorry I had come, he said no and started being a bit nicer. God I was so blind, so invested in all that had happened that it simply HAD to work … I know this will resonate to some of you.

Now, all throughout the time he had told me that he loved him even when blowing hot and cold and he told me he loved me then – there were some moments in that trip where I believed he was feeling it and this is what trips me up every time: is he REALLY that bad or were all the various issues on both sides the problem and is he really hurting inside, is it my unreasonable nature that drove him to this when all he wanted was to love me … STOP! Reading this site has made everything clear!

Anyway I came back and was ill, with memories of being promised about going back there, plans for the future etc etc … he went out on NYE and went silent on me. Yep. That’s what I thought too, and then I was all “needy” because I was ill apparently.

Well, quite. This limped on a while till the eve of Valentines when realising it was unlikely I would even get a text let alone anything else I decided to fly to see a friend for his birthday (spending it with him and his boyfriend, so nothing to be jealous about). He didn’t take kindly to this, in retrospect I guess I wouldn’t have either but I also wouldn’t have been blowing hot and cold. He said maybe he loved me in “a different way” and then said that my weight was 50-75% of the issue. !!!!

Though went back to it when I was offline after I tried NC the first time … you got it, without any proper understanding I ignored an email and got a text a few days later begging me to tell him I was ok which I took as genuine concern.

I decided to move to a new country, a move which was going great until I heard tale of a similar story where it was 10 years later and the feelings were still there. This is now the stupidest thing I have ever done because of course I still had rose tinted specs all that time and was getting emails from him where he was still saying “a great adventure for you for a year or two” and how much he missed me, couldn’t believe how strong I was to do something so brave etc etc … I thought “well I still feel the same towards him under all this” and I told him so. He said he still definitely had feelings for me and we got talking again … going great till I uncovered a bunch of minor lies by omission and then it hit me again, the gut wrenching anxiety and the spinning out of control feeling. A couple of days later after I was APOLOGISING to HIM he said he thought he had wanted it back again but he realised he didn’t RIGHT NOW and that he would never say never in the future (the very thing that caused me to dump him before) but not in the short-mid term. The feelings from this was worse than the first time because in the meanwhile I had made a new life and now it had this crap in it again (proving you can run but not hide). A few weeks later he said that he had been contacted out of the blue by someone he had never told me about from 15 years earlier for whom the feelings had never really gone away … I just sent a message saying it was a shame he couldn’t have been honest with me, time for me to set aside feelings for someone who would never return them and bye.

Start of NC. All his mails have been set as filter to be instantly deleted so I can’t see them or can’t weaken and check, his numbers are deleted but can’t be blocked and he NEVER called me anyway and never would – he is deleted and blocked from messengers etc.

It used to tear me apart thinking I had done terrible unforgiveable things but no I’d just been human and occasionally PMT (very bad PMT but normal really). Reading the site here, having a good friend who sat me down and told me about narcissism (he was in therapy a good long while after a thorough pasting from Ms Assclownette) and simply thinking things through made me realise that he is an idiot and I need to start applying the huge amount of love I have to give to someone who truly needs and deserves it: myself.

I am dating again, extremely casually and with someone EUM but it’s not with any expectation of anything further. Dinner now and then etc, as an expat in a city where the local language is NOT easy it’s actually as friends with benefits but also I am aware that it could work just as well without the sexual benefits. After so many years settling for sexlessness (still the case with that particular ex’s new girlfriend too, nothing to do with me OR her, just the way it is) I realise that this is my Achilles Heel so I am going into therapy and also working very hard on improving my own life and self esteem. I always had self respect, the thing I can’t forgive this asshat for is robbing me of time and being the reason I took such a dent in my confidence and self respect.

Still, I have a new life with new challenges now. Despite all I have said above, I am not a victim and I refuse to be beaten down. Thank you NML, and all you ladies on here, for helping me see with absolute clarity exactly what the reality is – I do see this guy whom I loved unreservedly for what he is and understand that if you are dazzled by a narcissist don’t be sad because the wonder and beauty you feel are created BY YOU and you’re seeing your own self.

EUM even said to me that no one had ever been nicer to him in his life apart from his mother and that she “had had to be”. He knows it was that text which stopped me moving on then, I used to wonder if he would text again but I don’t any more. Personally, I don’t think he will.

If he is reading this – possible, let’s face it a lot of these guys get a kick out of it – I don’t hate you. I wouldn’t waste my spirit on hating you, you’re already aware that life’s winners don’t own 14 guitars and make a point of going on about it, yet can’t play a whole song at will. You’re BENEATH contempt

I had just gone through a breakup after 4 years, and it was ok for me not to be bound to someone, but more and more after these breaks, I became bound to my affair and feelings developed. We were also, in public amongst our friends, very good friends. Then, after the next small breakup, he began dating someone else and then left her because he couldnt get over me, and in a dramatic scene he broke down on my doorstep. In a very rare show of genuine emotion, he declared that wanted to really be with me, that he hated himself for always pushing me away when he felt me getting closer. He wanted to be together for real, not in an affair. And we were, for some months. And, honestly, he treated me wonderfully, every one of our friends declared a huge change in him, emotional, happer, but there was always a reoccurring feeling of slight distance that kept me wary. We were planning for the summer for him to meet my family, and I decided I needed to scratch the surface, and asked him if his wonderful loving treatment was just to make me happy, or did it really come from him. At that moment he said how happy he was, but two days later, shaking, he broke up. I had flipped the switch – It was all so see-through, seeing his emotional problems just flip on and shut me out, the old wall was suddeny around him. I have learned that at these moments, he sees me as the problem, that I am not ‘right’ for him’, and that he needs to keep me away.
Although the breakup talk started with his usual wall of impassiveness, soon he broke down completely, this man that never shows himself as weak. We had very dramatic discussions, and it seems, he just can’t commit to me. And yet, even though he left, he said he wanted to try, he just couldn’t do it, and it would be a lie if he did. I found that at least honest.

My problem is that although it has been a month of no contact, it is hard to know that someone can’t jump over his own shadow, even though he even admits he wants to. Of his own free will he has been in emotional cognitive therapy for a while, and after this breakup I learned from a mutual friend that he went back. His childhood was coo coo for coconuts crazy – he could be a case study – and its a miracle that he at least realises that he needs help with these things.

And because I see someone trying so hard, and being honest with me, I can’t seem to just get angry at my loss and move on, because I care for him and do genuinely believe that he cares for me.

And yet, EUM is the unmistakeable pattern. This time the catch phrase was the same – he couldnt give me more – but why do I actually crave the moment when he comes back and starts all this hurt from the beginning? Although its nonsense, I feel so close to reaching the core of him, because he took steps with me that he has never taken before, and each time, our episodes seem to break down more and more of his emotional walls. I hear him say I am not ‘right’ for him and he runs away- only to hear later the absolute opposite and more. I know for a lot of you, this is sounding familiar, but its all new to me.

The no contact thing is the worst because I feel I have lost a good friend, and we unfortunately have the same job and same friends and can’t avoid each other 100 pro. Ladies, give me a good talking to, I guess I need tough love.

All the things you say, you know deep inside. The last guy I wanted to just break up… in fact after his inappropriate and mind boggling behavior after leaving my house I called him on the phone and told him we are no longer dating, then in turn he said a few things that had me doubt myself (wasn’t in the position to be dating) … this isn’t about him, just the lesson at hand that it’s obvious we need to be healthy woman first so we don’t attract these assclowns. I remember an ex when I was 23 (now 27) — (assclown texter, IMer, email) but when in hot persuit was calling… dinners, etc… he had me on his buddy list all this time (up until 4 months ago) and would shoot a friendly “hello” but I wasn’t being true to myself… this guy wouldn’t commit and that is why I stopped dating him… he also said some nasty things to me and didn’t treat me right… why on earth would I keep communication with this tool? Finally, I woke up after (thank god) we were going to meet up for a drink and he didnt follow through so in turn I knew the game and didn’t want to play it any longer — and will never even talk to him again (not out of anger) just moved on COMPLETELY… but it’s just crazy the rationalizations we make for these assclowns… but more so, in ourselves… learning to love ourselves (part of trust too) is so rewarding in all aspects of life, so thankful for waking up and wanting to live in reality with myself to be furfilled and happy… and dismissing crumbs!

I am really sorry, I am so angry with your EUM, what a b””’d!!!

Stay strong, I think you made a right decision by meeting him, at least you know that he is not worth it! His lost!

Take care, I wish you all the best!!!

I also wanted to add that I also felt insulted that Mr. EUM would THINK that how he treated me was “the way” to win me over adn keep me. Puleeeese!

And my post shoudl have read that I felt incredulous that I tolerated his emotional UNAVAILABILITY for so long.

*Cheers*