People who are lonely or unhappy don’t look a certain way or have have a specific type of life or experience. We must be careful of getting too caught up in how things look or what we think we need to be in order to keep people comfortable.
It’s as if we think that the people who like and love us can only do so as long as we’re not inconveniencing them with the truth of who we are or what we’re going through. It’s as if we no longer believe that people want to know how we really are and that ‘everyone’ is uncomfortable with emotions.
Several months ago I got off the train one evening after a night out in London and got straight into a taxi. I asked the driver how he was doing. “Not too good but you probably don’t want to hear that, do you? Nobody wants to know….. People don’t mean it when they ask how you are these days”. He sounded as if he’d given up. His anger and sadness were palpable and yet it didn’t feel ‘bad’ or that he was trying to make me feel bad. He was in pain. “Well, I do [mean it] – how are you doing?” He told me that he’d lost one of his twin newborn grandchildren a couple of days before and how devastated they all were. It was just awful and we talked for the several minutes back to my house. When he turned to take the fare, his face was wet with tears and he thanked me for hearing him– there was no need, I think he just needed some compassion in that moment and it didn’t matter that I didn’t know him or that I hadn’t been through that specific loss. He was seen and he was heard.
It’s even more vital in a time when it’s all too easy to send a light text with, “Hope you’re keeping well”, or to click ‘like’ or write, “(((HUGS)))” or whatever, and for it all to be taken as keeping in touch and knowing people, that we actually take the time to not only notice and truly connect with our nearest and dearest but that we also take the time to remain connected to who we are and to share ourselves. I’m not talking about sharing our innermost feelings and thoughts with unsafe people– it’s about trusting someone enough to be who we truly are, to say how we truly feel, to express our thoughts and at the same time, taking the time to check in with ourselves and ask, “How am I doing today? What do I need?”.
We have to check in with us because sometimes we don’t realise where we’ve just gone into autopilot, rushing through life and not having time to re-calibrate, to really feel emotions that are coming up and support us. We get so busy that we lose track of our stresses and then feel down, frustrated, overwhelmed and lost. We look around and see what we think are signs that we ‘should’ be OK – career, money, house, friends, family, relationship, kids etc – and yet we might be running on empty or grappling with pain from past experiences and a pattern of thinking about ourselves in a certain way and not know where it’s coming from, how to explain it or what to do about it.
This causes loneliness feelings and it becomes a vicious cycle because in recognising that we’re emotionally adrift, we can end up judging us for feeling this way. We then judge us for not being Teflon-coated, for needing to ask for help, for not being able to “put on a brave face” and act as if everything is OK, because we think that everyone is having the time of their lives and that what they broadcast with snippets of text and photos online, or disclose in light texts and conversations, is the full picture. It’s not. We really have to stop comparing our lives to what we see online or what we imagine everyone else is doing.
If we don’t catch ourselves before the loneliness really takes hold, we consciously and unconsciously slip into loneliness habits that keep us even further away from those we could do with being closer to or from taking actions that will help to mentally, emotionally, physically and spiritually support us through this time. We focus on being “perfect”, on holding ourselves to excessively high standards, and on comparing ourselves to others. We think that we’re only allowed to have socially approved feelings and lives. We hold ourselves away from love, care, trust and respect.
There is no point in silencing and distancing us emotionally because while it can appear to keep the peace with others, it comes at the cost of our inner peace and can actually create chaos in our outer world too as it impacts on our actions and choices. As we try to get relief from the feelings or escape them, we use habits that feed into silencing and distancing us.
The funny thing is that, if we’re not letting ourselves be seen in the deep way that comes with the vulnerability of letting people into our pain, we may not be letting ourselves into other people’s pain. We might be keeping things light and not asking ‘too much’ for fear of what we might hear back. Or, sometimes we are aware to some degree of the difficulties that others are going through and make the mistake of comparing and deciding that our struggle isn’t important or fearing that we will be a burden. We jump to an inaccurate conclusion.
It’s not fair to judge us for finding something difficult or painful. It’s not fair to decide that we’re “not good enough” because we need to ask for help or we need to be honest about what we’re going through in order to get the support that we need. It’s not fair to regard us as a “failure” because we haven’t been able to erase the past out of our head or because we trusted someone with our heart and it didn’t work out.
We have to speak up even though it can be scary to admit what we’re feeling or thinking at that time. It takes us out of our heads and the inner narrative that may be blinding and limiting us, and reconnects us with the possibility of perspective and compassion. We stop shutting down. We re-open.
Letting people in on our struggles and letting people see us, is how we show compassion for us. Instead of hiding out in judgment, we share in our humanness and recognise it in others too.
Sharing my own experiences and observations here on BR over the last ten years has been a way of showing compassion for me. Sure, I open myself up to being judged but I also open me up. In doing so, I’ve stopped judging me by virtue of my background, appearance, experiences etc., and have invited others to do the same. I’ve also learned that I’m not alone in what I have been through and I could only have discovered this by trusting enough to share.
Your thoughts?
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As someone who is prone to depression, i have felt loneliness and feel it on a regular basis and have actually been alone trying to manage my toughest stuggles.
Like the taxi driver, i believe people don’t care. Let them in on your struggles when you’re feeling extra down and it makes people so uncomfortable they change the subject, find a way to leave the conversation full stop, and i just end up feeling shame. I don’t have a lot of close friends, so sometimes i have confided in someone not as close *cause i needed to* and in the end it made me feel like i really should shut up. Not many are willing and able to listen and feel ya.
I mean, it really takes 15 minutes. Just a mere 15 minutes of listening and being heard makes a hell of a difference in that day, and might even give me that much needed little push to keep going.
I’m typing this and i’m getting angry cause a lot of people judge you as being ‘negative’ when there’s an overflow of messness and sadness and anxiety. Nevermind all the good stuff i have in myself. If i’m the type of hypersensitive person that sometimes responds to life differently than you do cause i’m a different person with a different background with different life experiences, good and bad, then i’m negative and you should stay away from me cause that shit’s contagious.
Come on, ‘positive’ people! Why are you afraid listening to someone that needs a chat will bring you down? Do you think it will never end and the person will cling? 15 minutes and it’s all better!
I have trained myself to always see the bright side of things, which is important when you want to feel more positive about life. But if i have ‘negative’ feelings such as sadness, grief, anxiety, anger, i am seen as negative. And yes, i often see it that way too about myself.
Whenever a celebrity dies of suicide, like Robin Williams, people take to Facebook and offer their deepest condolences to people somewhere in the air, feel extreme sadness and loss, and wish the dead to rest in peace.
Well look around you. You are surrounded by Robin Williamses and you avoid them cause it makes you feel uncomfortable.
The world doesn’t need more ‘positive’ people most. It needs a lot more empathy.
Yup, i’m bitter.
Anywho, i think it’s great you took some times to talk to the taxi driver. Sometimes i witness moments like these myself, or read about them, and it gives me hope. And it makes me proud of myself when i know i have been that person to someone to someone, that i gave them some sort of release and let them know it’s ok. It’s what it’s all about.
And PS Mary I care.
Mary,
Another viewpoint, I also think people in general are very fragile these days, we no longer live in communities, which traditionally offered emotional support, even if they could not anything “physically”.
Its the problem of Westernization of culture everywhere “I” over “we”, “me” and “mine” over “us”. Where we are on a constant treadmill to project our best possible picture ALWAYS and ALL the time, so exhausting and then for one moment you want to put your guard down and share your vulnerabilities, you are regarded as “weird” and someone who does not have their act together. Its inhuman.
I have lived in Eastern culture(not necessarily in all Asian countries), where to fail is accepted to be human and the whole community comes together, its considered as being nosy by some, but now I prefer nosy over lonely.
Mary, I can understand where you’re coming from, if not what you’re going through. The struggle feels like it will always be so, and others come out with glib ‘be positive’ messages, that not only fail to address the problem, but also make you feel like you’re a ‘negative person’. Positivity is not about saying things are ok when they’re not, or about responding to any problem with, ‘well at least … ‘. It’s about so much more than that, including daring to be honest.
There have been a few instances recently when people have told me about problems they’re having, including depression, and it’s made me like them more and admire their honesty, and be pleased that they count me as someone they can confide in. They did not ask anything but just found it important that I should know. I think it takes courage to inform people in this way and has to be done if you want to go beyond small talk.
I would also add that what stopped me from feeling like a ‘negative person’ was not so much a change in reality, but more in treating myself with compassion and care. More compassion towards others, less anger and offence over their behaviour, followed quite naturally. I could accept that my problems were not what many could handle emotionally, hence dumping huge amounts of baggage here and taking courses with Nat too. I’ve found that sometimes I meet people who have been though similar things, and we can have emotional conversations and share insights without even building up a friendship, while other long-term friends don’t really understand, but are caring and compassionate enough to count as friends. So without wanting to add to those glib voices, I would say that self-soothing and caring are going to help more than anyone else can, and as others have said, you have an empathetic, supportive community here.
Well said…
I’ve been the selfless person many many time, especially with men, and when i arrived to point where i was so exhausted from it all, i was completely alone to deal with it. I still have some anger about that, but i realize that it was all my choices, that selflessness is not for me (or anyone), and that i have to take care of me. I really had to learn self care from scratch, and im still learning.
I’ve had a really bad year, trying to stay afloat. A close friend flushed me out of her life for saying no to her, ive had a silly accident that messed up my body and made working painful, my dog died, my new kitten got horribly sick, and pretty much everytime i thought things were getting better, things were getting worse.
I’ve had a bit of bad news about my health this week (nothing life threatening)that created even more insecurities with work and money. Things have been so hard that ive ended up isolating because as usual i find people cant handle my pain, thought dont feel i cling or even take up much space.
Then someone offers help out of the kindness of their hearts and it changes everything.
I’m the type of person who doesn’t want to need anyone, but being ‘taken’ on hikes out of town cause this person thought it would do me good has made a lot of difference. I felt she cared.
She has her troubles too, but we hardly speak of our issues once we got them out of the way by sharing thoughts. We just walk along each other’s sides and enjoy what nature offers.
Mary, thanks for listening. I think as others have suggested on here like Suki, it isn’t so simple to ‘take on’ someone’s problems, even for the 15 minutes you talk about. There can be an assumption, if you’re rebuilding yourself and seriously down, that others have endless strength and have the answers and know what to do, but they don’t. Most adults have struggles and constraints of their own, even if they appear to have it all. If you can’t approach people on an even ground, where you have something reciprocal, you’re less likely to have a healthy friendship and are vulnerable to power issues.
I think the person who took you on a hike wasn’t doing it out of sympathy, but because they like you and care. Perhaps they can empathise. People can be amazing, where you wonder where you’d be if they hadn’t been there and done or said this simple thing at the right time. It’s good to let people know when you appreciate them.
I was looking back on my lowest time recently, and often can’t believe anyone stuck with me (I lost many friends along the way) – I see myself then as draining, looking to others to fill my big emotional void. I felt like no one cared, but realised it was down to two people, if they had cared enough for me, I wouldn’t be looking to others to do it. I lacked parenting (guidance, advice, listening, interest, a focus on me and not just them) and had to learn to parent myself. But the people who did stick with me (I have very few friends, really thinking of 3 people), tell me that I wasn’t this hugely draining person. They just saw me as someone going through a rough time.
My point is, maybe I gave something back at the time and kept most of my good character traits, but I do know that my expectations and how I saw their role were completely out of whack. I was always extremely independent and self-sufficient, but had this contradictory hunger for sympathy and for others to take control, especially for men to tell me who I am and what to do. If and when life gets hard again and things go wrong, the difference will be that I will probably, and rightly, lean on others more than usual, but will lose the feeling of being endlessly let down and uncared for, with a different idea of what to expect and what others ‘should’ and are able to do. Just because life has been unfair, doesn’t mean you are owed anything. ‘When it rains it pours’ has truth in it, as I see from what you’ve written, from my own experiences and from others I have a duty of care to.
I don’t know if any of this helps – the fact that you’re on here, posting and listening, and finding people in your life to spend time with, shows that you probably don’t need such harsh lessons. But i think they are key to avoiding fighting a battle that you’re never going to win, and instead using that energy to rebuild your life and nurture old and new relationships. Keep posting.
@Mary; I understand you since i have been depressed as well and sometimes have depended too much and asked too much from family and friends. Are you saying that you expect people to listen to you for 15 minutes as it will make you feel better? I’m not sure I fully understand who those people are – I’m sorry but you are not entitled to this from anyone. Even close family and friends will get tired if that is all that your interactions are about.
Have you thought that perhaps your depression makes it harder for you to engage with people in everyday ways, but you still need people to listen to you process things and as a result many of your interactions are about processing the bad things in your life?
What would happen if you spent a month say avoiding any offloading on others and building relationships on everyday things – the weather, football, movies, doing things together, whatever. And working on your depression? It makes us bitter to be isolated through depression and then to only turn to others when we are bursting out of our skins with that anxiety will make them bitter. They are only getting the bad side of us since the good side is in the grips of the depression. I’ve done it, I’ve had it done to me – I have a good friend that I avoid because I can’t deal with it anymore. I get a stomach ache after every conversation. She needs to help herself. I want to talk about normal things, I can’t hear about how hard her life is all the time – and yes she is bitter, she doesnt make any changes and some of her situation just needs to be accepted.
Robin Williams is different; if someone came to me and said, I need help, please help me. AND then also wanted to be helped, was willing to take advice, was open to it and not resentful when help is given – I would spend a long time with that person, I would want to help that person. If someone came to me and said ‘listen to me be angry and bitter about my life for 15 minutes, I’ll shoot down your suggestions, and I will show very little progress in my life so there is very little return for your investment’, I would not have the patience for this and would decide to enact my boundaries.
I hear you. You feel bitter and isolated and you have managed down your own expectations of your social needs to the lowest point – the point where all you want is someone to see you and see the things you are going through. Validation. You’ve given up on firstly doing that for yourself, seeing yourself, and you’ve given up on other people for the fun that they are. For all the joy and life and love in others. It is there. And it is there in you. You are expecting people to confirm to you that your pain is real. I’ll do it. Its real. I’ve said it, i see you, i hear it, i’ve been there. Now where do you go from here? Whats your next step? [there is a next step, upwards, onwards, beyond].
Um? Whether to demand/ASK for help or not?
I feel it is always ok to ASK for the help you need (and necessary) but not to EXPECT that that help will be immediately supplied but to EXPECT that you have a valid need and a right to keep on going – elsewhere – to find what you need.
When it isn’t supplied? for whatever reason – know that you have CHOICES and can go elsewhere on your journey – ie if everyone you know is blocking your needs perhaps a therapist? or professional will help? If all your friends not interested – investing time in friends that are etc…Boyfriends/Girlfriends the same…
If we never ASK for the actual help we feel we need – whether it is 15 mins or 50mins x 20 times a day – then how will we ever get the help we feel we need? I.e actual validation, connection, mirroring etc…
It is ok, also, to have a need that means you can’t absorb others problems and that they need to find someone else.
What isn’t ok both ways is not ASKing for what YOU FEEL YOU NEED to be ok mentally and emotionally.
You can ask for what you need – and you need to in order to stay in reality and not build fantasy/superficial relationships! – but you cannot EXPECT that that help will be supplied simply because you asked. But the benefit of asking means you can then truly ascertain what you need to do next in order to fill the void/hole/need for real and stop the cycle from continuing.
Suki,
I totally grasp and concur with some of your points.
However, I do feel that lines can be blurred at times, in terms of ‘depression’, and Depression, and how to deal with it in others. While it is entirely legitimate and healthy to erect boundaries in response to continuing negative behaviour especially if it is accompanied with attempts to negative manipulate others’ feelings/mood).
It must not be forgotten that, no matter the trauma/genetics accompanying medically diagnosed Depression, there is a physiological – physical – reason why the emotional/psychological triggers have tipped the balance in to the brain becoming chemically imbalanced.
Of course, some ‘psychological’ conditions can also be caused by vitamin or mineral imbalanced in our bodies, or are directly influenced by an injury or other medical condition.
Whatever the cause, the root of Depression is as real a physical ailment as a broken bone.
If this were not the case, it could not be improved by anything put inside our bodies – be it nutritionally or pharmaceutic ally.
Without a detailed and complex understanding of another’s history and perception, to say :
‘You are expecting people to confirm to you that your pain is real. I’ll do it. Its real. I’ve said it, i see you, i hear it, i’ve been there. Now where do you go from here? Whats your next step? [there is a next step, upwards, onwards, beyond].’
Is, I feel quite contentious – when expressed to an individual who has so openly and honestly communicated their vulnerability. And is quite…I don’t know…It makes me uncomfortable enough to reply. Possibly in view of the neglect to consider underlying physiology and chemical processes. After all, we underestimate the power of our body, and overestimate the limit of our control. When a part ain’t working properly, you can’t just answer the question ‘Whats your next step?’ if you are in the clutches of Depression.
Besides, if someone with (it’s never ‘yours’, or ‘their’ Depression – they didn’t seek to create or buy or build a system that created faulty chemical levels. It’s just how thee body is made) Depression is reaching out and trying to talk to someone for this ,magic 15 minutes, then rightly or wrongly, no matter their method or delivery, they are taking a step.
If it is made out of a genuine Depressive state, and is not simply an attempt to engage and receive an unhealthy supply through manipulating another (a thin line! Context is important, here obviously), then that is the person who is suffering with Depression trying to take their next step. Even if they go one backwards the next day.
I completely agree, though, that some individuals do make it impossible to sustain a healthy relationship with, no matter the type of relationship. We have to be open to accepting being told we need to sort ourselves out and seek help if that is, indeed the case (and not just a harsh or defensive judgement or accusation).
There are limits. I’ve learnt that the hard way, too many times! I can, will and do enforce my boundaries with a snap that makes a person’s head spin if I have to.
I won’t go in to any specifics about my life experiences now. Suffice it to say I have faced a lot of challenges, some of which will only continue to progress in terms of impact and unpleasantness. That said, while I have my wobbles, I’m a positive person.
And I loved these words from Mary:
‘The world doesn’t need more ‘positive’ people most. It needs a lot more empathy.’
Marvellous post Natalie. I sometimes wonder if there’s a ‘Natalie’ for you as there’s a Natalie for me/us readers. Who knew that on the internet where there’s such rubbish about sensitive issues one could find a special niche like BR. Best, V.
Yep, there are many situations where I am alone in a crowd; at work, at some social events where single women are discouraged and seen almost as a threat. Part of it comes from not really being heard because the folk involved do not really want to hear who I really am or do not care. I feel less lonely in these situations when I am actually alone. I have learned to avoid some events and minimize time at others. Mary isright; there are a good many Robin Williamses out there and just noticing, being there may save a life. Just had to do an intervention with a student last week; he may resent it, may be angry, defensive, but no way am I going to turn my back on someone obviously in crisis.
Yes, Mephista, so good you were there to help that person in crisis. Whether they recognize or appreciate it at the time.
I had a very young boy threaten to harm himself when he got home from school that day because he got in trouble. I don’t think he meant it, likely a manipulation, but he’s clearly in pain and crying out for help to stoop to that level. He even described how he was going to do it. I wasn’t taking any chances, I reported it so he could get whatever help he needed.
Mary
I understand where you are coming from. Your feelings and the things Natalie wrote about are familiar. This article made me think of the dialogue I had with Sofia on another article the other week. I certainly dont understand why people dont seem to have it in the to be aware of others but I have decided I will be authentic to myself and i dont care who likes it or not. I know it doesnt always take away the pain of the things you mention but you have a right to feel that way. Its messed up! People do care about you and i know BR people are far away but sometimes this is where we can find the perspective and honesty we need in a world that seems socially tone deaf…and really just tone deaf on empathy for others many times. I wont ever get it because treating others with empathy is free. Best wishes.
I want to say first of all Nat, I am so lucky to have found your blog. I broke up with my Mr. Unavailable 8 months ago…it has been hard because I still love him and we have a young son together. Reading your blog gives me insight and had helped me understand my feelings, so I thank you!
I had a relapse with my Mr. Unavailable over this past weekend, which did more harm than good (temporarily) but I have learned much and won’t self talk myself into a tizzy over it. I wanted to talk to my longtime friend about it because I felt some guilt and such…explaining to her that I was lonely, needing human connection and that lead to being with him. Lonely and getting with asshat and then lonely talking to my friend because she was extemely scolding about the predicament. It can be so hard to let people in when yes, you know they care but are judgemental and harsh. I think for me that is the biggest struggle, letting people know and then having them shame you. Ugh
I feel for you Kimberly. A feelings journal and meditation did help me to be there for me, when I had no one to turn to, because how can anyone else know what you are going through. You have to be there for you no matter what, and sometimes too much sharing also makes other people judgmental especially when they need time to process.
I’m totally on board with us taking stock of ourselves and going easy on ourselves when we are having a hard time – and sharing our struggles when needed… and yet, on the other hand… I can’t help but think about how so many EUMs use us as their armchair therapists (unfair and inappropriate). Men often expect us to provide “emotional labor” and, as I happily recover from an EUM, I have to say… I am reeeally uninclined to listen to men’s hardships these days. For free.
You nailed in Michelle, yes I am not inclined to listen especially when men dont want you to actually listen, but to agree with their BS unconditionally.
I figure that people I love are only about 20% as interested in my drama as I am. I try to limit my need to vent unless I’m really upset, but when I do need a friend to talk to I tell her, look I need to vent for 5 or 10 minutes so do you have time right now to listen to me? She almost always says yes, but I find it really helps if I define how much time it will take to talk about whatever issue I need advice about. I don’t like to get trapped in a two hour conversation about my friend’s boyfriend or girlfriend troubles, so I try to be as concise as possible. I’m happiest when I can work things through in my journal, through art or strenuous physical exertion. As l get healthier emotionally I find I really do hate drama…even my own.
Understanding and accepting my own feelings has really been much easier for me when I started writing it all down. I was laughing at myself today because I went from one to six journals that I write in on a regular basis. I have my gratefulness journal to remind myself of what I really am grateful for (which is everything) but I write it all down. Then I have an emotions journal to help me accept how I am feeling whether it’s happy or sad or angry or whatever. I was feeling really good today and started feeling guilty about it because a woman who was a member of a Down syndrome group I belong to died from breast cancer on Friday, and I felt like I shouldn’t be having a good day when her family is suffering. So writing that down was good for me to understand how I think and how all those feelings are acceptable. I have a success journal for keeping track of things I did well and things that need improvement in my physical and spiritual life and a business journal for my small business to keep track of successes and failures and progress, and a learning journal to write down information or exercises I get from sites like this, books, podcasts, seminars and lectures. Finally I have one for relationships. It helps me to sort out my feelings about the people in my life.
All of this journaling helps me get in touch with who I am, what I’m feeling and how I’m changing. I don’t write in all of them every day except for the business and the gratefulness ones. Otherwise I’d be spending all day writing!
It’s good to be able to go back and read what I wrote 3 or 6 or 12 months ago and see how I’ve grown or changed or gotten worse. I also am reminded of things I wanted to do and forgot about. It’s great!
I think a lot of people use facebook as an alternative to face to face communication and rather than meeting up with a friend and venting over a glass of wine or something people post a vague status about what a terrible day they are having or how nothing goes right for them, which not only opens you up to feeling worse (if you don’t get many likes/comments etc) but you attract a lot of people who don’t actually care but are being nosy and want the gossip. I think facebook is a useful tool but I really believe that the way we sometimes use it is massively unhealthy – I have definitely been guilty of using it to gain validation and also as a way to berate myself when comparing my life to other peoples ‘social media identities’ unplugging is definitely liberating
Yes, the world need more empathy. The world also needs a larger sense of community. Local community. Actual physical community. The “online” community cannot supplant the need for local physical community.
Medical studies have proven that a sense of community is essential to living healthy. We need to be connected to others in order to thrive. I watched a PBS show titled “Happy” that went to different countries to determine what makes people “happy”, and it showed that having a connection to community outweighs money and youth when it comes to being happy and contented.
The sad thing is that ”marriage” does not necessarily ease the feeling of being alone; if we make a bad choice, it can make things worse. So we’ve got to stop thinking that we are lonely because we aren’t in a couple. Learning the skill to connect has to happen in our early years, I think. Many of us grow up without ever feeling connected to the people who are in the same house! I saw a video interview of an 86-year-old Oregon gun store owner, and she made some good points about why gun shootings are happening more and more – her view is that it has to do with how we are growing up today.
Oregon Lady Says Loners Are The Issue
It is a passage of childhood to withstand the first heartbreak, yet today, the first heartbreak can end up with one child shooting another child. Today, everybody is the star of their own drama. Few people see themselves as one small part of a bigger picture. We are so disconnected as a local society, that we are trying to build connections wirelessly. The Oregon shooter had an online community of people egging him on! In my view, Facebook friending, and Tinder, and violent video games, and instant celebrity fosters shallow connections. We fall in love shallowly, with appearances. We don’t build any chops for withstanding any kind of emotional hardship, because we don’t have a deeply rooted foundation to fall back on. We don’t have any resources to draw upon for strength.
This is really Elgie. I love the Charles Bukowski quote “The less I needed the better I felt” we clutter up our life with possessions in order to escape from our feelings – shopping, eating, internet addiction – I have been guilty of them all! Now I am learning to be happy with less, be content with the peace and not to try to bury my feelings. It is very empowering to not ‘need’ a relationship – to not define myself in such narrow terms as single or attached, to be ok with not having plans on a Friday night and also to be ok with not always feeling happy and just sitting with these feelings rather than springing into action in an attempt to ‘get happy’
Elgie, I’m enjoying your wise and thoughtful posts. It reminds me of a saying from an exceptional spiritual teacher that I’ve always liked – even if I have to struggle sometimes to understand it. But I think it’s true: “Loneliness is not cured by contact with people. Loneliness is cured by contact with reality.” I think by that he means reality is not this superficial world of shallow online connections, celebrity culture, consumerism and instant gratification, looking for validation from others, etc. BUT the real world of the true, whole person who has infinite resources within themselves for happiness, for awareness, for giving, for resilience, for inner peace, for enduring disappointment, for unitive consciousness and the deep knowing that we are all connected and part of each other – and therefore can never really be alone. This is exactly what our broken society is NOT giving us, especially not giving our young people – hence the tragedies are piling up.
Sometimes I really grasp this, not as often as I would like, but I must say that this mindset is getting easy to access as I get older. I believe the human person was born whole and meant to be whole, even though life fractures us in a million different pieces. We keep looking to other fractured people to help us heal our own cracks, but it never works because we are looking in the wrong place.
I love that saying – “Loneliness is cured by contact with reality.” Never heard that before.
Your post reminded me of an Oprah show, where a well-to-do family and their dog were sent to Africa to live with a tribe. There was a Mom, Dad, a teen girl and a pre-teen boy. At the beginning of the stay, the two children were miserable without their electronics, and horrified to be sleeping on dirt and eating fire-cooked meals. The boy let his dog drink from the community water pail, and was struck by the fact that it meant that the whole community had to replenish the community water pail by walking 5 miles back and forth to the river for fresh water. It was a harsh reality for him to learn how such an unthinking act meant a days worth of work for another group of people. By the end of the trip, the two children were participating happily in tribal duties and games. When the boy got back to America, he said he realized he had too much unnecessary stuff, things he did not need nor did he really want them. He purged his stuff and felt like he was happier living with less.
Thanks, Marie83, for introducing me to Charles Bukowski. I like his quotes about consumption of things, saying the more we look outside of ourselves for validation, the more that is going awry on the inside of us. I look around at how we have homelessness, yet we have tons of vacant buildings. I saw a documentary on our local police stations that are crumbling, decaying, have non-working toilet facilities and rats running rampant, yet we expect these people to always be at their 100% best in their role to protect and defend us. I suffered from shopaholism, and I would observe other people when I shopped, somehow innately knowing that none of us need these things, we’re shopping for entertainment. I guess I’m just saying that I see a lot of lost people and mis-directed energies, me among them.
Nat, this is truly a wonderful article. I stumbled across and have become a faithful reader of your blog two years ago. It has helped in many ways, and today this article was just what was needed to see the light. You are right we often do forget what we need and lack the ability to make certain choices for fear of being judged and disliked.
Mary- There’s people that do care and just opening up to one friend can help make a world of difference. This world does lack compassion and empathy, that I do agree with but there are some of us who are exceptionally kind hearted and offer listening ears. I have girlfriends who call, vent, and open up with their struggles and each time I listen sometimes offering kind words or suggestions but often just listening is what is needed. I too, have my own issues just like my girlfriends but choose a select few to talk with, because I know they do care. For those of us who’ve been through many struggles and challenges or look to the realistic life view points, you are right we often are labeled negative. However I feel we are misunderstood. For it is what we go through in life that makes us who we are and some of us choose not to pretend our lives are perfect. Facebook and social media have enabled us to look for instant gratification, but yet at the sametime it can rip us down… We get to see everyone’s happy perfect lives, but behind closed doors, is this really the case? I have a failing marriage and a life that’s not been so easy and I won’t pretend that it’s perfect, I refuse. Nor will I utilize Facebook as my outlet. I chose to listen to others, be compassionate, and show a little empathy because after all you don’t know the challenges of the one sitting beside you and a simple gesture could make a difference, even if it’s just fifteen minutes or a smile.
Dear friends, When will it stop hurting? When will I stop remembering him? Come on I am not a teenager or in my twenties, it was just a 4 month thing, although intense. I see him for what he was, a faker, a player, a dishonest person. And I see my role in it, to escape my reality, to close my eyes to what his words were actually saying, to blindly believe in BS being dished out.
Why dont I get on with MY life?
Moreover it was over 2 months ago, it was a long distance thing. Should it not become easier?
@Wiser2, my guess is it is not about HIM per se, he is the symbol of something much larger, deeper, and more painful. So you are struggling with THAT, not HIM.
@Diane
Thanks Diane. So I need to find what is THAT. My need to seek validation from outside? My need to get happiness from outside?
But don’t we all desire human connection, intimate fulfilling relationships? How is it possible to have this relationship with myself, even if I am a highly confident and compassionate person. The need would still be there.
What a great article Nat! It helps a lot to talk, but often times people are quite judgemental which makes it even more difficult to open up. I have a best friend who has been supportive throughout my separation from my husband, which I blame myself a lot for. But from time to time she would be a little bit sarcastic and say something that would mean I was the cause of the separation and I would start to blame myself even more. Because of this we develop a fear of being judged and shut down. I am also reading your book Mr Unavailable and Fallback girl, which is a great peace of work and helped me to understand a lot of things about myself, my childhood issue and my husband.
Bravo! Bravo!
This article could not have been timed better for me!
Having recently had the final split (initially the most civil of our break ups…..it didn’t last) with my Mr Unavailable of 3years, I withdrew as usual into my self-critical, detached, anxiously depressed state which usually drove me back to him when he hit the reset button. The difference this time was a friend, not a best friend or a close friend but a woman I knew from a mutual group of acquaintances, who stepped in and allowed me to help her with her grief and hurt over a miscarriage her and her husband were surviving through. Her bravery in being so open, their honesty about their feelings and fearlessness in sharing them, just being there to listen to it all and hold her hand made me realise how closed off I was regarding my own individual grief and hurt.
So when the inevitable happened with my Mr Unavailable she was there for me, she still is, I can proudly say she is one of my newest but probably truest friends. I feel like I can lay my pain out, raw and naked without fear, for the first time in 3 years, possibly my whole adult life, I am grieving properly. As much as it hurts, it is helping, I would never have known sharing such devastating emotions could actually benefit anyone, especially not me.
Keep up the good work this blog and your books have been a lifeline back to sanity for me, thank you Nat!
Can anyone suggest some good simple books on understanding self esteem and why one would seek validation from outside, and how to change that. This is the root of my problem, and if I have to really work on myself these are the issues I need to face.
For e.g. when I was with exAC I used to always think what HE would think of me pursuing this activity or that activity, kind of seeking his approval in my mind , even when he was not physically there. Gross!
I do know it has to do with my childhood where I always wanted to please Dad, who was kind of difficult to please, although he was caring. And now I realize I am playing that child role in my relationships. So now that I have this knowledge, how can I empower myself, At this point I don’t want to be actually be in a relationship to change my behavior. How can I change myself consciously without being in a relationship, kind of hard to do.
Hi Wiser2… There is another great post on this site about forgiving prematurely and then wondering why it still hurts. I really recommend it. I also recommend BR’s post about people moving on at different speeds.
For me, it goes in waves. It’s good/manageable for awhile… then, I dip into the pain awhile. With time, the good/manageable starts to outnumber the pain dips. I didn’t notice at first, but with time, I found that this was (thankfully) true. It never moves as fast as we’d like… but it does get better. I found my dips into the pain were less frequent and ALSO, when I stepped into them, *I didn’t stay in pain as long as I did before.* That’s progress.
As far as books, I have to say, the one that I always come back to is You Can Heal Your Life by Louise Hay. It’s been around for a long time and different sections resonate at different times for me but it’s been a go-to of mine for years. I encourage you to see if it resonates with you too.
Take extra good care of yourself while you’re in this “pain dip” and just know, it will lift – bit by bit. Imagine yourself five years from now, giving yourself a big hug and letting you know, “Girl, I’m so glad you got rid of that jerk. Your life gets realllly good and you won’t even remember his name…” xoxo
@@wiser2; this made me think of your question. Self esteem vs self compassion…
http://www.bakadesuyo.com/2015/05/how-to-improve-self-esteem/
Thanks a lot Suki, this really resonates. I think I do need more Self Compassion and acceptance of myself and the circumstances. I am forever escaping, even when the reality is good. I escape because circumstances are not what I dreamed about it while growing up. The media, the movies, the novels screw us in so many ways, we never realize. There is NO ideal relationship, NO ONE’s circumstances are IDEAL, although it may appear from outside, and that what others might project.
Wiser2,
I recommend Natalie’s self esteem class. There is a lot of valuable information and i still refer to things more than a year later.
Wiser 2 you already know why you seek validation externally – you wrote in your third paragraph to people please dad – who was difficult to please. Our inner love originally is mirrored from our inner family that we are exposed to in early years. If you weren’t made to feel it internally but made to earn it externally then you will repeat the pattern until adulthood and some luck when you can piece it together if lucky and address your need to focus on your internal feelings, instincts and needs. I have successfully used journal writing, therapy and this website to take the horrible focus on men providing me with what I need and ‘rescuing’ me, to actually providing it for myself now internally, very happily, with few minor slip ups which I notice quicker and address quicker now that I am aware.
I don’t know of any self esteem books myself but do recognise that when I said good girl after every self critism I made once – it helped me understand just how self critical I was and take it seriously as a problem. This had a huge knock on affect for me with my self esteem. Others will have other things they have used they can add maybe and eventually you will get there just don’t be harsh on yourself in between.
Thanks a lot Oona, I have started journaling, would take it more seriously. I cannot get therapy where i am as there are no good therapist or any therapist who can even begin to understand my issues.
I try capture each validation seeking thought as soon as it comes, because sometimes it becomes hard to remember when I sit to write at night.
Men in my life have created more havoc than I can possibly admit. My Dad who was so difficult to please, the ex who was a psycho and the recent exAC who was a player. Yet I saw them as role models when I was with them. Seeking validation and approval from them. Making them the source of my happiness, completely ignoring my inner child, my feelings which were screaming “This is not right|” . Our patriarchal culture completely made me so dumb and ignorant of myself.
At least now I have started recognizing the pattern. I also realized its not just men sometime I also idealized my closest friends, thinking they knew stuff, they are smart, have their act together, again ignoring my own thoughts and feelings. I now consciously stop these thought patterns. Earlier if I like a friend, I would be the one to repeatedly call and make plans to meet, now I wait for the other to also set plans, kind of alternate. I now consciously stop projecting my constant need for validation, but dont catch it all the time.
@Wiser2, I found Buddhism quite helpful with this. Buddhism is all about not seeking validation from the outside. Maybe start with ‘Buddhism for Dummies’ or ‘The Art of Happiness’ by the Dalai Lama or listen to some lectures from Insight Meditation in Redwood City, CA. I like anything by Andrea Fella and Gil Fronsdal. http://www.audiodharma.org/
@Diane,
Yes Buddhism it is, I started on this in 2011. And for the brief months this year(4 months to be exact) I was with AC, I even went on an 8 day retreat. In hindsight I am so thankful for that, as it did make me question my experience with AC like “Love lasting for forever versus the transient nature of everything”, his love bombing me which I made me question his intention, his professing eternal love when I know that I will age, the physical appearance will change.
I am increasingly convinced that the way we see ourselves is the way we see others. If we are compassionate to ourselves, we will be to others. If we judge ourselves, the odds are high that we judge others. If we sometimes think we’re amazing and sometimes that we are scum, its quite possible that we have equally unrealistic ideas about others.
I think this piece is about being vulnerable, its not about needing validation or telling it like it is. Its about being open, sharing your feelings. Its about asking for help. I started asking for help a bit more than I used to and it has been very useful. Mostly professional help, and I just ask, I dont feel bad if the person says no. I have low expectations. I have received a lot of help from others – in fact I have found that its better to just keep networking, a lot of help is just given since some of it benefits the giver as well (especially professionally, e.g. if someone asks you to work on a project with them it benefits both of you and the opportunity sometimes emerges just through having a cup of coffee).
I think some of these posts make me uncomfortable to the extent that they are easy to twist into ‘my-truth-must-be-known-goddammit-I-deserve-to-be-heard’. E.g. when people say focus on yourself – and everyone decides they MUST focus on themselves more, as if we have all been burdened by only giving to others selflessly. While the truth is that most people are already so self-absorbed and full of themselves that this decree is hardly needed. And, it gives people even more reason for self-absorption – ‘I’ve been letting myself down by not speaking my truth. It doesnt matter if its unpalatable to others, I need to be heard, my truth, my life, my needs, my wants, my happiness’. Etc. I dont know the way out – I just think like all in life, a need for moderation and for not standing on other people’s toes to further your own self-actualization. You need to share. But sharing is not hammering at others. You need to be vulnerable. But vulnerable is not over-sharing in inappropriate ways. ‘My feelings need to be heard’ – but why? Feelings are not facts, feelings are not an entitlement that guarantees an ear. I agree with Natalie because I know the larger context of her posts. But we have talked so much also about ‘women who talk too much’ or about ‘NC’ or about how ‘telling some things will only make it worse’ etc. – and those posts are a balance to this one.
Suki, just wanted to touch on an aspect (ask for help) of your post.
Asking for help and then knowing what it is to actually ask for i.e. be specific as in I need love, I need someone to listen, I need to stop receiving/giving abuse, I need emotional support etc. The grand thing about knowing what it is one is needing help for, the help will always be there and in some cases from people one would never expect to receive from especially when help is not as forthcoming from those around you on a daily basis. That’s when one is needing to cast further afield for help.
Suki, I am sorry you feel so negative about others responses. Yes the world can be a mirror to our souls, but it can also not reflect us at all and there, in the resulting instinct as a reaction to its non reflection, kicks in that a lesson is to be learned anew or relearned. The difficulty is that as you know we often we try the same response without realising what it is we actually are doing and so talking about ourselves/our feelings – making ourselves vulnerable – is a viable way to attempt to address and unravel the true culprit hurting us.
I don’t feel sweeping statements about others are helpful for me eg
‘when people say focus on yourself – and everyone decides they MUST focus on themselves more, as if we have all been burdened by only giving to others selflessly. While the truth is that most people are already so self-absorbed and full of themselves that this decree is hardly needed.’
The above statement, isn’t true in my situation. I can’t speak for others but yes I did need to focus on myself and my needs and yes it has worked for me successfully. Yes I did sacrifice myself and my needs and instincts to others, I stuffed them down, sat on them and did anything I could to negate them, including blindly following doctrines I felt I had proof definitely worked for others – so must work for me and yes when I stopped focusing on others needs and focused on myself and my actual feelings and instincts, I stopped getting into situations that also resulted in being physically beaten regularly.
When I am having a difficult time and I go back to focusing on myself ie redirect myself back to focusing on my needs,instincts and feelings and mine alone, and act on it, it works every single time so that it frees me up to help others when I can, alot more.
I agree with you in feeling that we can ask and must! but never EXPECT to have help (and in doing so has set me up for many falls and others for failure) but that we must still value our needs afterwards not being fulfilled but still needing to be fulfilled even though it may have to be with someone else and not with the person we wanted it to be from. Not that it invalidates our needs entirely because someone can’t meet them. We need to find our choices to fulfill them and choose to go elsewhere. But our needs remain always paramount for our survival and thriving in life and every time I have a problem or set back, it is usually always due to neglecting my focus on myself, my needs and my instinct about a situation.
Suki, great comment, it struck a chord with me because I remember my mother going through a phase of ‘I’m going to put ME first for once’, ‘it’s time for MY voice to be heard’, ‘what about MY needs’. At this time she was having an affair and being quite brutal to her children, so we did find it a little ridiculous, though she had also been through a lot of tragedy.
I think a large part of it is, as you suggest, in the eye of the beholder. If there is a lot of bitterness, it will be different to Nat’s way of working on the BR ‘condition’ of putting others’ needs first, perhaps after being children of alcoholics or experiencing other forms of abuse. We learn to understand our inner voice and take responsibility and expectations change of what others are supposed to do.
As I’ve learned to do this, it is marked by an increasing gentleness towards me and others, not an angry, combative attitude. We’re being both tougher and kinder at the same time. But I also recognise that I have never suffered from depression in the medical sense, and I don’t understand it nearly as well as I should. I think it’s very challenging to overcome an illness that almost by definition leads to self-absorption and a lack of openness to the world. It’s a real struggle and I wish that society (and I) could understand it better and be more sympathetic.
@happyb, Oona,
Happyb its interesting you mention an example of your mum having an affair because i had read an article where people justified affairs as a way to ‘save’ the marriage, or to ‘grow’ etc (as in, they justify the affair as important to personal growth, self-esteem, and putting yourself first). It seems that when people need a justification for why they are going to be selfish and trample over others, it can be quite easy to pull out the ‘I am going to live for myself, I deserve this happiness’ etc.
And I think ‘tougher and kinder’ is the perfect way to put it — boundaries is another.
Oona, in fact I dont feel negative about others responses at all. Rather what I’ve learnt is that as I became more accepting and nonjudgmental of myself, I also became of others. As I became of others, I also became more accepting of myself – its a virtuous cycle. With a close friend who has been very bitter, her language is pure anger at the world and people (everyone is a stupid, jerks, useless, etc) and she judges herself just as harshly. Holding herself to impossible standards she holds others as well. They fail to live up to them, and she is also always inadequate to herself. Phew. Its a tiring way to do things!
So now when I hear others being judgmental of others, I often assume that they are hard on themselves as well. Its not a perfect correlation, but its a strong relationship.
Oona, I wholeheartedly agree and relate with everything you wrote.
Ironically, I decided this week that I was going to spend a few days only focusing on me, what I want/need and doing it. It was incredibly challenging for me. When you are raised to sacrifice yourself for others it takes effort to recognize you are are externally focused/trying to please at your own expense.
Suki, The first two paragraphs really resonated. I believe it is true that when we stop judging ourselves (accept ourselves) we will automatically judge others less (accept them).
I’ve recently started doing a meditation on the Tao Te Ching and I thought of you and wondered if it is something you would appreciate as well.
@Veracity, is this some sort of online meditation that I could look up? I do want to include more meditation into my life. I fail to do so mostly because I am afraid of confronting myself.
Suki, It’s a meditation to help change your thoughts, so it’s different from other forms of meditation. Dr. Wayne Dyer has recorded affirmations based on the 81 verses of the Tao. It’s called Change Your Thoughts Meditation.
@Suki
I would highly recommend Insight Timer app to download on your mobile. It has many free guided meditations from renowned meditation teachers on different topics letting go, facing fear, grounding, befriending yourself etc. It also has wonderful support forums on various topics.
Thank you both Wiser2 and Veracity for the links to meditation!
I have the same feelings as you, Suki. You put it so well, that difficult juxtaposition of self-actualization without demanding the capitulation of other people. Vulnerability is hard for people to…..allow. They don’t want to be vulnerable. I won’t admit that situation hurt me because if I do that means the other person won. It’s easier to be angry and scream “Listen to me! I need to be heard! YOU hurt ME!” Vulnerability says “Wow. I’m hurt. And I need to heal. I need to find a way to heal.”
And yes, as Natalie says in another post, telling people about themselves is not the way to heal.
@elgie, you put it even better, yes self actualisation without demanding the capitulation of others. And yes isn’t vulnerability acknowledging to yourself more than to anyone else? Others don’t have to recognise vulnerability for you to be vulnerable.
This has got nothing to do with this post, but I would like to ask Nathalie if she could please, please post some success stories ( a part from her own) of people that have been in relationships with emotionally unavailable people/narcissists etc have gone through the pain, come out the other end and finally found a mutually loving relationship. I would really like to hear their experiences and the pain they went through and the difference they found in their new relationships.
I really need some hope at the moment as I have just finished my second relationship with a narcissist in two years. Two different people, two different heartaches, same patterns. I’m tired, I have given a lot only to be neglected and not prioritized, it was a living hell. I have been no contact for 2 days and am feeling the urge to reconnect because of the dependency issues that come with this kind of relationship, they call it the traumatic bond. I and people like me need to hear some success stories. I need to be sure there is the possibility of new and better things at the end of this 1.5 years nightmare in order not to go back.
I have read your posts for a number of years and have your books. Great work Nathalie!
I know you are looking for recent stories, something that happened in your lifetime. But history is a great teacher. We think dealing with ACs is a current phenomenon, but ACs have been around forever.
Mystery writer Agatha Christie’s first husband (Mr. Christie) was an AC. Long story short – they married in 1920, he cheated on her repeatedly, then he fell in love with another woman and asked for a divorce. Agatha tried everything she could think of to win him back, even faking her own disappearance in order for him to “rescue” her. Anyway, by 1928 they were divorced. Agatha ran away to another country where she met an archeologist named Max, they fell in love, married in 1930 and stayed married until the day she died in 1976. Max wrote his memoirs in 1977 and in it he says “Agatha died, peacefully and gently, leaving him now with a feeling of emptiness after 45 years of a wonderful marriage.” Max died in 1978.
Why do we think life is over because we did not win some ACs love.
I remember suffering a devastating heartbreak when I was 27. I was distraught and full of pain, and describing my pain to a male coworker named Stan – Stan was divorced and remarried, and may have been about 43 years old. He listened to me with an amused look on his face, saying “well, you’ll get over it.” I remember how angry I was – he just didn’t understand! How could he be so insensitive!
And then I turned 45. And I felt exactly like Stan. I can see that in the play of Life, heartbreaks are a dime a dozen. They will happen. And you can get past them if you just let go of the drama. Keep living your life and chances are you’ll find something so much better, if you just give up the need to destroy yourself.
Two narcissistic connects in a row? Seeking validation from outside of yourself. What are you trying to prove, and who are you trying to prove it to?
To add, Agatha Christie’s second marriage was to a 14 years younger man who was very successful in his field. A woman who knew she was good enough despite her previous negative experience.
@Eli; you’re a success story aren’t you? ‘finished’ two relationships with a narcissist. Having a good relationship doesnt make you a ‘success’ – by that count I am a failure and likely to remain one for a long long time. Yet I am successful at my job, I have good friends, and most people think I’m very put together and a ‘success’. If you want a good loving relationship to be your metric of success and your reassurance that you need to get out and stay NC with this guy — then you’re setting yourself up for failure, by defining success in such a narrow way.
I think maybe success is a journey that you define for yourself, and not a destination. How many marriages end in divorce? Are all those people failures now that their success stories failed?
I think a step on YOUR journey to ‘success’ might be to understand what made you get into these relationships in the first place AND what helped you get out. Those two insights might help you avoid such narcs in the future, shorten such relationships, and get out with less pain to yourself. That will put you on the road to success.
With the last EUM, my behavior was a ‘success’ – I never fought, threatened, insulted, coaxed, persuaded, or bull-shitted him. I was always present and authentic and there, and yes it takes a while to realize that some people cannot show up for others in any capacity. Then I walked away. Je ne regrette rien. Isn’t that a success story of a relationship? the success is that i went through it without compromising on who I want to be.
There are indeed new and better things – however, they are not THERE, with some random chance of alighting on us, we have to create them. By going NC, you’ve taken that step.
In other news, my friend was with a narc, and is now in a health[ier] relationship – who knows how long it lasts. In other news, my friend has always been in a committed thing, never with a narc (unless you count her parents, ha ha black humor), now married, with constant never-ending ups and downs of life, career, sometimes incompatibility, family problems, health, money etc. Whats better, whats worse?
Really interesting Natalie thank you.
When I feel unable to ASK I usually feel its because they have all the power and would use it, against me/to hurt me either socially or emotionally etc, once I asked for my needs to be met it would be worse.
It is my go-to response for needing something/asserting myself within any group especially and another learned behaviour from my family where that did happen regularly, where I felt regularly betrayed completely and so I isolated myself and became ‘self sufficient’ from the hurt, in order to function/cope/survive that toxic environment to myself, which is now outdated and actually results in a perpetual cycle of never asking for help and being self sufficient – ie alone – in the extreme and often in trouble because we all need help.
In the end I have realised that being self sufficient actually doesn’t mean living cut off from society completely but pick and choosing wisely, where you get your help from and choosing not to stop looking when it isn’t supplied in one place I try to get help from. My family are unable to help me, for example, but that does not mean I don’t have a valid need for real love and attention etc… and so I give it to myself by finding others that can – even if it is not a blood relative.
What a drag! This week I came to two realisations – one I was choosing not to listen to my voice again and putting myself in very dangerous situations – twice! with a week in between being oblivious but feeling somethings not quite right here – all this, from trying to push myself too early because I feel so alone and desperate to connect with people ie ego issues briefly rising again – but this time I knew I had THAT feeling again and so wrote it all out – 13 pages in one session, more as it all unfolded and have resolved that I need to avoid those particular unhealthy groups and focus more on the actual groups I need and feel safe around – and that it IS a valid need for me to not go to these places with these particular people – not because I am being fussy, snobby, avoiding being with people/getting vulnerable or any of the countless other negative things I could tell myself in my head to force me to persist in going to dangerous places but because they are simply not my cup of tea. I was left feeling drained emotionally and physically – exhausted and messing up things that are good for me which I have done well in, in the next few days after also.
I forced myself to do this AFTER having some success – like it went to my head and made me go out and do something crazy to balance it?? I do remember feeling distinctly like a fish out of water in this success feeling and not quite what to do with myself – free – but strangely natural in the group I am starting in? I was frightened by it. Don’t know if any of you have experienced this but I definitely self sabotaged afterwards – under the idea that now I was ‘fixed’ I could and should go and do anything I have had an urge for ages for no matter what my instinct says … Well I can as long as it fulfills my actual needs – and to do that I need to know them. In writing out, I came face to face with – it wasn’t actually my need at all to be in these particular groups and that there was actually a completely different picture in my head of what I actually needed to aim for – which looked nothing like the groups I was forcing myself to be in – and would never change to miraculously deliver what I am actually looking for – so I had better get looking for the other possibilities that might get me closer to what I actually needed! Before this I had felt there was no other choice but these groups – only when I made the decision that these groups would not work for me at all – and suddenly I started finding other options which I hadn’t found before.
The second thing I realised – I was getting really hurt over a group I previously thought I belonged in and this hurt kept escalating despite my attempt to put a stop to it/ be a better person – until finally I was so hurt I felt desperately publically attacked, really thirsty strangely and hot – realised it, realised sitting ignoring my physical needs was not an option – and so walked out of the room and headed for the kitchen, once out had a couple of drinks of water and surprisingly cooled down literally as well as emotionally – in safety.
During this point I realised – that I did not want to be the person that runs away all the time when someone else was doing something that doesn’t make me feel good and that if I did , that is what would be dramatised about me in order to deal with their own shock/guilt about the situation collectively, so when I felt ok, fully calm, I went back in and simply sat down quietly – knowing if things got bad again I could walk out again and that I was listening to myself.
Strangely walking out had had an affect on the person concerned who said nothing to me but focused on others and later I wrote to them what I needed stating it directly with, no, you did this and that description but simply what I needed. It had a funny response I wasn’t expecting – they thanked me for communicating – which freaked me out a little and I remembered I had had to do this before in order to get my needs met about really personal things I didn’t want broadcast publically or humiliatingly within a group.
I hadn’t even considered that I wasn’t actually communicating my needs – I presumed that they should know what they were doing AND its affect AND were getting off on it. Effectively mind readers at all times. I also realised I spent alot of time during that period really, really anxious and focusing on what THEIR problem was and how to handle it, without considering I might need to do something as simple as communicate and then leave it up to them. I felt I was being humiliated in front of the entire group and totally powerless to do anything about it but it turns out when I started listening to myself – no matter how extreme – such as to leave the room quite dramatically without saying anything to explain, to get a drink of water – things started to unravel in a much better way and the power back inside me.
I won’t say its a cure because I am now still on high alert over this person but they went some way to meeting me in the middle which is more than usually happens when I leave the room or myself, literally or mentally/emotionally and disconnect.
I don’t think I ever allow myself to be angry – it just makes me feel so so bad and I was made to feel so bad for it as a child – let alone whether it is justified/ valid or not and usually when I allow my anger out – I have completely lost it and so beyond any sort of positive result – perpetuating the cycle = all anger is bad stuff it down and ignore it, cycle. It was quite a relief and revelation to actually use it for once in a pro active way.
My experience with asking for help recently has taught me to know what help it is exactly that I actually want – that sometimes what I think is helpful actually might not be and being connected to myself by writing helps see that better,
to communicate needs clearly first before completely disengaging – if within a group that has successfully helped/been safe before and be prepared to walk away to find help elsewhere, if not responded to no matter how much I would like to belong to that particular group/person,
not to expect help but to expect that if I don’t receive the help I need, to start looking elsewhere for other choices even if I believe there aren’t any or it will come back to haunt me later on in a much worse situation…
I don’t know if my above writing is helpful to others? – please let me know if it is. Many thanks Oona.
Oona,
I like your writing and how to handle the situation, irrespective of the outcome. Please keep writing.
Absolutely helpful, Oona. I know we’ve joked about it before, but I swear we’re related. It’s scary sometimes reading what you’ve written because I could have written it myself. I appreciate your insights. Sometimes I’m in the neighborhood of figuring something out, but haven’t quite arrived yet and there you are, sharing your map! Thank you!
Oona, reading your post reminded me of a great book called The Big Leap which I think Natalie has mentioned previously and which i think might help with the sabotage stuff you mention.
The book explains how we all have a default level of comfort (or discomfort), happiness (or unhappiness) which was hard wired as a child. I guess that this is what is our line is, if we haven’t worked on where our line should actually be.
This default setting is where we feel most comfortable (even if it’s uncomfortable) and its why we unconsciously seek out situations that get us to that level, and why, when we are working on ourselves, being kinder to ourselves and good things begin to happen, we can immediately find ourselves countering that with a sabotage-type action. I’ve seen this countless times in my own life and its fascinating how unconscious and seamless it is!
The book is great, shows how we can enable positive change to happen, by realising that part of us doesn’t know how to feel happy. That part of us might actually feel very uncomfortable with the slightly ‘freefall’ sensation of being ok. We have to learn how to make this our natural state. And the good news is, we can!
Hope that helps. xx
@Nickster. It does. Thank you very much for the suggestion! V.
This one really struck me at my core. I learned at a very early age not to bother expressing myself because it did more harm as it was used against me, used to punish/exploit/betray me. I didn’t know this consciously of course, but I knew. I rarely spoke and when I did I stammered, I can imagine now at some level I knew every word was a potential weapon for them.
I also knew not to expect compassion or empathy because of all of the above. I was screamed at and punished for being sick or hurt.
I watched the movie Love and Mercy last night and I totally related to Brian Wilson – the people he relied on betrayed him and exploited him at every turn and blamed him for it.
I was very much alone and self reliant. I was desperately lonely but put on the happy face as other faces were not allowed.
I’ve learned to be selective with the people I choose to share with. In the past I didn’t have self soothing skills so I would end up sharing with an unsafe person because I was desperate for relief/connection. This person would betray my trust/use the information to hurt me or discount my feelings and the cycle would repeat.
Now I use journaling first to process feelings and when I really need to get heard and there isn’t a safe person available. I’m amazed how effective this is.
As I am getting healthier, I am attracting healthier people. I’m cycling up now, instead of down.
This website and the wonderful women and men on this site has been a lifesaver for me. Truly. I came to this site with no one I could trust to share my hurts with. This is where I feel free to express myself and trust that there is someone who can relate and hear me without judgement. I have felt judged sometimes too. That’s okay, I can’t control that. That’s life. We’re all doing the best we can. I’m grateful to have a safe place to share things/experiences that most people don’t want to hear about or think about. I’m also grateful for the opportunity to be able to help someone else by hearing them and offering an ear/advice or by expressing my journey and lessons learned along the way. We learn by sharing our experiences and we also learn that we are not alone and someone does care. Deeply healing.
It just occurred to me that I feel like I belong here. Like I’m accepted. I haven’t felt that very often. It feels good!
Veracity, well said. It is a wonderfully supportive space, where we can come to offload baggage, but also to listen. When others’ responses to my posts, including yours, have been so helpful and truthful, I feel inclined to do the same with others if I can. Judgement on those very rare occasions can be hurtful, but we learn to see it for what it is. In crisis or just in everyday anxieties, this is a safe place to come to.
I have felt this, so true after 16 months of a partnership split i feel at times people are fed up and almost want me to get over it. I have got better and long way from what I was but still not 100%
I’m a good listener and regularly listen to friends spilling their internal worlds about various things. Often it gets taken for granted and I sometimes resent the time and mental energy I devote, although knowing how useful it can be to give, because I rarely get the same in return. Then of course I feel guilty for resenting them for taking me for granted, but I can’t even share that.
Came onto this topic a bit late but it is very relevant for me at present. I’ve been followed BR for 2 years now & im amazed when I come into a challenging situation how much it helps me to come here.
I recently had a long chat with a work colleague about the demise of my marriage 2 years ago & it was so pleasant to have someone listen without judging for 1hr & it just made me remember there are good people in the world & I should also give time to people who need me to listen. I worry sometimes that it’s all about me, even with my daughter of 7 years I really want to improve communications. Anyways the guy I chatted to from work is so kind & nice I wonder about us getting together – but I really should just be happy to find a good friend. Any comments in whether to try to catch up with him more?
I feel lonely sometimes as I have always been afraid to express my emotions. I am emotionally avoidant and I pretend a problem is not really there. It’s the way I’ve learned to cope with problems as I’ve never felt that I could completely rely on another human being. I hate to just bury my head in the sand. But it seems to be a compulsion with me I’m unable to overcome. I pretend that nothing’s affecting me and just act happy all the time so people don’t know how I really feel. It makes me feel a sense of control. But in actuality, things are in chaos around me. It’s not that I avoid emotional closeness or intimacy. I love all that but I close off more negative thoughts and hide away when I don’t feel good as I only want people to see me in a happy-go-lucky state of mind.