I’ve released my first companion guide to Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl – The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship – and I wanted to share an excerpt from the moving forward section as I see so many readers (fantasy relationship or not) rendered helpless by trying to control the uncontrollable, seeking perfection, and choosing ‘safe’ but unavailable and often shady relationships where they don’t have to put themselves at major risk. This excerpt is from the chapter Getting Control Under Control…
I can tell you right now, that most of the angst that people experience around unhealthy relationships is about not being able to get inside the other person’s head, to control their opinion, what they’re thinking, and what they’re intending, and the inability to influence and direct another person’s behaviour by throwing your love, attention, sex, imagination, and even texts at them. You’re not about to be able to read people’s minds or take over the controls, so it’s you that has to get a grip on trying to control the uncontrollable. The funny thing is that when you align yourself around people who have similar values and are a reflection of a healthy relationship with yourself, while you still will never know every thought in their head or be able to control their actions, you have a greater sense of trust, both in you and in them, which allows you to get on with exerting influence over your own life.
Love is not about having the power to change or control someone. It’s also not a power struggle so rather than vying to control a relationship that you feel has left you helpless, it’s better to go and be in a relationship where you can accept and respect both you and them, that you’re both copiloting.
I know it feels like everything is about you because you are you and it’s your life, but not everything is about you. The only thing that is about you is you and your actions. Everybody else’s actions are about them. You’re just not that powerful that you’re making people be and do certain things. You’re certainly not causing a radical change in personality – people be and do what they’re already inclined to do. The world is not manoeuvring to your I’m Not Good Enough Record – people are far too caught up in themselves.
Learn how to trust you.There’s no easier way to feel out of control than by placing all of your trust in others, and very little of it in yourself. You learn how to trust you by exercising your judgement through experience. This is how you learn to have confidence in yourself because you can trust you to look, listen, and act in your own best interests. It also means that even in the face of ‘bad news’, you’re OK because at least you hear and see and know it’s bad news and are acting upon it so it doesn’t become something considerably bigger and unnecessary.
When you learn how to trust you, you learn to trust your capabilities in various circumstances. I, like many, have told myself many times in the past that I couldn’t handle something and then subsequently became obsessed with being in control of ‘everything’ to prevent me from having to deal with what I was afraid of. You’re stronger than you give yourself credit for.
Perfection doesn’t exist. There’s no such thing as a perfect life or a flawless human. Trying to control ‘everything’ in an attempt to make things the way that you view as perfect, is far from ‘perfect’ behaviour. Many people spend their whole lives not appreciating themselves or their lives because of a goal of perfection. When you relax into yourself and your life and seek to feel good and happy instead of perfect, there is a whole life waiting for you to enjoy, including bouncing back when things don’t always go how you’d like.
You do not need to get all of the details of your relationship ‘right’ or look for ways to correct them through new encounters – let yourself and your experiences unfold. Let even your ‘mistakes’ unfold because you’re too busy trying to correct along the way, often using your ego as a basis for your actions, before you truly see what insights you can gain from the experiences. If you keep trying to control everything, you just don’t step back enough to have an objective view.
See the wood, instead of the trees. When you’re busy trying to control other people’s opinions or actions, or limiting yourself in limited relationships so that you don’t have to stretch you emotionally, you miss the big picture – that this relationship isn’t working for you, or that you aren’t actually getting any genuine happiness and fulfilment out of these unproductive uses for your energy, or that your life is passing you by. Is it really worth devoting weeks, months, or even years of your life trying to ‘correct’ a person’s opinion or win back a relationship that is over for good, healthy reasons?
?Pseudocontrol isn’t control; getting behind the wheel of your life and driving it is. Being in control in your head is of shag all use to you – you need to be influencing and bringing about change in your own life, through your own actions.
Look at what you’re trying to control in others – how could you create this in your own life? One example is that when you try to devote your energies to controlling the opinions of others, it’s because you are exerting little control over the opinion of yourself – you’re just letting your negative self-talk run riot. Another is when you try to control another person’s agenda and keep tabs on them because it feels like they’re off creating their own life while you’re stagnating. Stop tracking them, stop stagnating, start creating your own life. Watching over them isn’t going to do it.
Remember that when you refuse to accept that the relationship is over or attempt to coerce them into doing things your way, you’re attempting to control their agenda and possibly even bombarding them with attention. This will alienate you. Breakups are not a democratic decision and people have their own agendas, which means that they don’t need your agreement to break up and you have to step back and get on with your own agenda, without them. In a mutual relationship, you have a joint agenda. Stop wrestling with this person for power – let them go.
Practice acceptance. I don’t mean accept bullshit behaviour, but what I do mean is to accept how things are, instead of rejecting it in favour of complaining about how you want things to be like how they used to be or how you believe they should be in the future. You cannot control the past and you certainly only have control over what you choose to do in your own future.
Accept that you cannot control others but you can control you. This is natural, normal, and nothing to be ashamed of. It doesn’t mean you’re not good enough or that you’re a failure or that you should have tried harder or whatever else you’re telling yourself. There is no person on this planet that you can control other than you. When you recognise that you don’t have this power, while your first instinct may be to feel helpless, what you need to give way to, is you not blaming yourself for other people’s actions and not being able to do something that nobody other than abusers can do, which means that you can claim the power that’s rightfully yours. Trying to control others does create a feeling of helplessness but every day you have to make a choice between being helpless by trying to control others you can’t control, or being powerful by empowering you in your own life.
Nobody else should be directing or influencing your worth or your life other than you. This is the same for everyone else, so you need to get on with assuming responsibility for yourself and leave everyone else to do theirs.
Your thoughts?
The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship is now available from my bookshop along with with Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl.
About the Author:
Natalie Lue is the founder and writer of Baggage Reclaim and author of the books Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship and more. Learn more about her here and you can also follow her on Facebook and Twitter - @baggagereclaim .
Natalie (NML) – who has written 1082 posts on Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue.
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or MANY reasons even
i.e. mummy’s boy / very polite but just wanted a root man / ‘too cool for school’ uneducated muso man who hasn’t got 2 cents to rub together even though he’s now middle aged & his time in the spotlight passed two decades ago, with zero motivation to better his job prospects (!) / mentally ill druggie xAC …. NOOOOO!!!
I’m not sorry for a moment I moved on from any of these people. I was & am too good for all of them (not that I’m anything spectacular in any particular department – I am however an honest decent woman who treats others with respect & dignity)…
Once I’m done rebuilding my life I intend to date a totally different ‘type’ of person. I’ve taken myself off the market for 2 years a total restoration job from the ground up & that is all I care about now. Getting ME sorted & returning to full health & self esteem !
Am I involved with an Assclown? Am I being one myself?
About a year ago, I started talking to an old college lover online — we’ll call him H. I know, I know — shady from the get-go, especially since we are both married. My husband knew all about the situation and was ok with it, his wife did not. She knew we talked (or so I was told), but not how often, or what about.
Our contact became very frequent — chatting online nearly every day, sometimes late at night — then progressing to talking on the phone (at his request). To be honest, it felt like a new relationship — his name popping up in a chat window gave me butterflies in the tummy. So, against my better judgement, I’d begun to trust him and I caught feelings. He said he had too, and would often talk about how he wished we were married — could have a baby together, etc… he seemed sincere, and I’m still not sure that he wasn’t.
I shot down this kind of talk and made it clear that I wasn’t leaving my husband and kids. Pretty soon all the lovey-dovey talk stopped and we became “just friends.”
This was both a relief and a dissapointment to me. I knew it wasn’t right, but at the same time, I really miss him in that way. He still contacts me several times a week, and we just talk about our lives — nothing sexual, though. Recently, we went nine days with no contact — I was upset at first, but I reallized that I want to be more independent of him, so I began to see it as a good thing.
This week, he’s back in contact — which I’ve been limiting. I feel as though I want my space, but I enjoy his company and want to be friends. He’s been very apologetic and offering explanations for the 9 days of no contact — but, really, I was ok with it. I admit that I do have feelings — but I think friends is a good place for us right now. Do you think this is even possible?
If I’m completely honest, sometimes I don’t take his calls and make him chase me a little, especially if I feel he’s neglecting me. I have definitely been guilty of manipulation and game-playing, too. Am I emotionally unavailable myself?
You are playing with fire. This is on the verge of an emotional affair; you are both married and this man shouldn’t be calling you.
I agree, jd — although, at times, I’d say that, for a time, it was even more than on the verge of being an emotional affair — it had become full-blown. I’ve suspected for quite some time that we might be using each other for emotional support/intimacy that we’re not getting from our spouses. Still, I think we genuinely enjoy each other’s company — is it crazy to think it’s possible to be friends?
Yes it is…
I’m sure you do both genuinely enjoy one another’s company – you’re both mind and chat screwing each other. But you’re also playing games and emotionally unavailable. Keep playing with fire and you will get burned. You’re lucky your husband will put up with this BS when really he shouldn’t be. You’re both cheating. You get a really good sense of who people are and what they do when they’re faced with problems – yours and your ‘friend’s’ behaviour tells me that you don’t solve problems – you seek attention from others and avoid your problems.
Thanks for this comment Natalie, I particularly like:
“You get a really good sense of who people are and what they do when they’re faced with problems – yours and your ‘friend’s’ behaviour tells me that you don’t solve problems – you seek attention from others and avoid your problems.”
No other words have hit the nail on the head more than the above. Wow is all I’ve gotta say. This WAS me and my ex, seeking attention and avoiding problems.
You’re not friends. it takes more than not having sex to make a friendship. You both crossed the line, nuke him.
And no more hot and heavy talking online. Talking online is how these shady situations arise. There’s something strangely compulsive about it that just wouldn’t happen in real life. You are in a fantasy relationship.
I am friends with a MM that I used to work with. We don’t talk online, we don’t facebook, we don’t text, we don’t call. We email twice a year with updates on work and family. That’s what appropriate looks like. Kinda small, ordinary and a bit boring. Not this dangerous drama you’re playing out.
Hi Grace! “That’s what appropriate looks like. Kinda small, ordinary and a bit boring.” this is so well put! Whenever there’s talk of friendship but “small, ordinary and boring” sounds disappointing, NC is absolutely necessary. OF COURSE after an affair or a relationship or even FWB, who wouldn’t feel gypped by the real boring ordinary deal?! Worse, to keep up the friendship appearances, at least one party will be faking big time. So much emotion and energy spent when we could be doing something constructive.
FoxGlove, I’d say treat your enjoyment of his company as you would any addiction. Before this started, were you feeling lonely by any chance? — Good luck!
Cavewoman — yes, I was. In fact, before this all started, I remember specifically thinking, while a friend of mine was getting texted all night by her own innappropriate online relationship — “I wish someone wanted me like that…” I’m a mom, and I’ve been married for many, many years … it was very hard to resist the pull of someone who seemed so wild with desire for me. I just hadn’t felt that in a long time. Such a cliche, I know…
You are MARRIED. He is MARRIED. Eject, flush, goodbye.
I’d highly suggest working on yourself and your own marriage. If your marriage is beyond repair, then work on yourself, by yourself.
So my question now is, do I go NC? Even though we were never exclusive and he technically never did anything to me that was disrespectful…is it best to just go NC? Have no conversations with him about it? The whole situation of him moving in with his ex and her spouse, him telling me he misses me at times, flirting online with other girls, most of this through text….how do I go about ending it the right way?
Gina
sounds to be you’re looking for another excuse to talk to him. And he IS being disrespectful by saying he misses you when he clearly doesn’t and by flirting with you and other women when he’s got nothing concrete to offer.
If you absolutely must make a formal announcement simply tell him “I’ve decided that this doesn’t work for me anymore and I no longer want any more contact with you.” Then delete everything.
You don’t have to break up with him because you’re not in a relationship.
Illustration: Let’s say there’s a company down the road I would like to work for. I hang around outside. I chat to the security guard. I got a brochure from HR. I made a follow up call . I even had an interview but never got the job. I call HR every now and then in case something has come up. Sometimes they take my call; usually they don’t. If I decide to give up on them and try my luck elsewhere, do I need to tell them?
Hi Gina.
My heart goes out to you. I know it seems almost mean and cruel to go NC and that you could maybe just keep them in your life a little longer and hey, maybe you might have made a ‘mistake’ and they’re really not that bad and if you just give it a little time it will all blow over and things will get better – but let me tell you from experience, it doesn’t work this way. It is so sad to see myself in other people – you seem like a nice, caring person, who wants to act ethically, but please cut him off for your own sake. If you don’t you will sacrifice yourself – and what for? A few texts?
You say that he hasn’t done anything disrespectful, but there he is with his harem of ladies, with him running after his Ex who is Married PLUS he’s keeping you on crumb communication pseudo-relationship support. It’s not right. Have you considered seeing a professional to talk over this? Does someone else know?
I am seeing a professional about this, but I don’t know how helpful it is. Most of what my therapist told me, I’ve read from this site and its readers.
I have decided to go NC, but am still struggling with it. After I decided to go NC I felt a sense of relief, because I’m finally taking control of the situation…it’s just hard because there is always the thought of “what could be.” I don’t want to seem like a cold person, but I also know that nothing good will come of this except my own further heartache.
I guess I always felt like I was his “top option.” Saying that out loud disgusts me, I don’t want to be an option for anyone. But I always got mixed signals from him. Him saying he doesn’t want to be in a relationship, pursuing me from an online dating site when he KNEW way before we lived a couple of hours away and yet he doesn’t do long distance, the way he was when we were together, all these things are so confusing.
I just can’t HELP but think to myself, “well he knew I lived far away to begin with and said I was worth the distance….and later he tells me he can’t do long distance. why not me?”
I don’t want to “diagnose anyone” I don’t know if he has any issues, is he really EU?
This all just hurts…it’s like on Facebook he posts things and tags different people sometimes for attention, or something I don’t know….I’m just so hurt, I thought he wanted to be with me…I don’t know what his motivations are, I know he was desperate for a better job and more free time….but I thought he wanted to be closer since he didn’t want to lose me…and now he’s with his married ex.
This all just hurts too much. I feel like I did something or didn’t do enough for him to want to stay with me.
I guess I want to know if NC is warranted…
when we first had the conversation about where things were going and he said he didn’t want a relationship, he also said he didn’t want to lose me because we didn’t have a “real chance because of the distance.” That’s probably why I stuck it out, seeing if things would change…He was also hesitant about relationships because he said that from his experience it never ends well and he can’t be friends with his exes because it starts out as friends and then blew up in his face…so is this someone who really is unavailable who doesn’t want to lose me while he’s with his ex and her husband in case of something not working there…what’s real and what isn’t?
Is NC really warranted here?
Gina
Yes.
Gina,
The NC is for you so that you can move on. He doesn’t want a relationship. He also “doesn’t want to lose you”. Well, too bad for him. He wants to keep you around without offering you anything. It’s not fair to you, and hanging around giving him access to you all the while he gives nothing –it’s not going to make him change his ways. If the man moves to your area and has gotten past his issues, decide then if you want to give it a shot with him. (Notice that in addition to distance being the issue, he also has a problem with the idea of a relationship anyways b/c “they don’t work out” and he can’t remain friends after a break up.) Multiple excuses=not promising.
Right now you’re not available for a healthy relationship with anyone else because you’re holding on this man who has told you he does not want a relationship. I know it’s hard but if you keep holding on, all you’ll be left with is regret.
Gina, when I first came to BR, I found some of the posts hard to accept and even shocking. Natalie (sorry in advance!) sounded like a bitter, angry lady who found fault with everything, and upheld standards that seemed so high that it seemed like, why would anyone do that? Multiple dating – everyone I know does that. Staying friends with exes- everyone does that. Trying to get back together with a reluctant somebody…
But that’s what Normalising Poor Behaviour does to you. That’s what listening to the media, hanging on online dating sites and taking your value cues from ‘society’ does.
He said he didn’t want a relationship = If you want a relationship, you won’t get it from me.
I don’t want to lose you = I want to stake a claim on you, put you on ice and add you to the harem. If he doesn’t want to lose you, why isn’t he moving in with you. Have you asked him this?
He blames distance – I’ve known people to leave everything behind and move entire continents for the person they’re crazy about. This guy is shielding himself and hiding behind secondary excuses.
Like Grace says, do NC, not just for him, but your own sake. It will hurt and you will likely go through the entire grief cycle. But when you’ve gone through it once, it will be easier next time around.
Like I stated above, I have decided to go NC…but that only makes it easier for a little while, I do feel like I’ll be missing out on something. Like I am mean for wanting to stop talking/be friends.
He’s had relationships in the past and said that I was worth the distance before we even met. Once we started seeing each other and about 4 months into it I asked and I got the “Relationships are messy, distance doesn’t work, I don’t’ want to lose you…etc.” I feel like I wasn’t good enough.
Too many mixed signals, even after he moved in with his married ex.
I’m worried that now that I’m NC he will eventually ask me what’s going on, or even worse not even care at all. I don’t know…but I can’t fathom thinking that I meant nothing this whole time.
Gina,
I know it seems mean. It felt mean for me too! But if you are an access-all areas unconditional door mat, he will walk all over you. BR readers may recall that my ‘relationship’ with the AC was mostly electronic. It really slapped me when I had to go to the psych office and explain everything I found myself saying ‘yeah and on facebook he said’ or ‘we were online chatting on IM and…’ or ‘he texted and’. This was the guy that lived an hour away, he had no issue driving over to visit his friends, work or get laid, but he never came through my front door once.
He said you were worth the distance before you even met. What does that even mean? Anyone can say anything. If you were really worth it, why is he moving as far away from you as possible to live with his married ex? And he’s already hooked you in with a Poor Pathetic Me Whine (PPMW) tale of lame-ass woe.
Are you exclusive? Do you know if he is dating other people? Is he chatting with other people? Where there is one person on electronic crumb supply, you can be sure that there are multiple others.
My fantasy relationship took so much from my – my identity, self-respect, my work performance and for the first time in my life, I knew what it felt like to be used and devalued and not cared about.
I couldn’t fathom that I meant nothing at all either. But that is the truth. It was so confusing because he was so nice, but his actions and lack thereof were just awful. He was so toxic.
I understand now, that anyone can say anything…but something like this “If you were really worth it, why is he moving as far away from you as possible to live with his married ex? ” makes me question myself…”If I was really worth it” implies that I’m not worth it and not good enough for him.
We are not exclusive, it was a “see what happens as each day comes” type thing. I know that I should have ended things then, but I was hopeful. He said that, but was acting in other ways towards me that made me believe that things were kind of progressing.
And then all of a sudden, this job offer comes along from his ex and 2 weeks later, he moves. He already had a job, albeit one that he didn’t like very much. But from what he told me before I cut contact was that he wasn’t even sure about him being paid!
He hasn’t ever done anything to put me down or said anything, which makes me wonder if he’s really EU.
Gina,
You say that “He hasn’t ever done anything to put me down or said anything, which makes me wonder if he’s really EU.”
Yes he has. You already mentioned one very clear example in an earlier post:
“I asked and I got the “Relationships are messy, distance doesn’t work, I don’t’ want to lose you…etc.” I feel like I wasn’t good enough.
Too many mixed signals, even after he moved in with his married ex.”
This doesn’t work/I don’t want to lose you/I’m moving even further away – to live with my ex
He is a walking contradiction. We imagine we are waiting for him to make up his mind – come to some conclusion – finally know what he wants – and let it be me! What we don’t realise is that what we are getting and experiencing from him in the ‘right here and right now’ with him is all it is ever going to be because Mr Ambivalent is WHO he is. Gina – this IS it. Do yourself a very big favour and vote with your feet.
Also, Gina, you say this:
”If I was really worth it” implies that I’m not worth it and not good enough for him.
The poster who used this phrase does not mean you are not good enough for him. It is you who thinks that you are not good enough for him. The guy isn’t even thinking on those terms – he hasn’t done the sums! He’s thinking about himself – not you.
It’s not about ‘not being good enough for him’. You ARE good enough for him. That he is not with you or choosing to be does not make you not good enough for him. He is UNAVAILABLE. And that has got nothing to do with you. It is a serious problem that he has with his relationships and is completely independent of you and what you are or are not worth.
The real problem here, that you are yet to realise (keep reading BR and you will!) is that it is YOU who thinks you are not good enough. Not good enough to be with a man who is capable of appreciating your actual value and offering you the relationship you need and deserve. If YOU thought you were good enough you would not be giving this guy any more of your time or emotional investment.
I used to complain and believed that my ex EUM didn’t think I was good enough for a decent relationship with him, which I now see was pretty silly because he didn’t actually think anything – I now know that if he did think anything it was that he knew I was well good enough and it was actually him who wasn’t good enough for me, what with all his flip-flapping contradictions and hot and cold and neglectful behaviours; he KNEW (even if I didn’t) that he was a total arse, and I bet so does this man of yours – it was actually me who thought I wasn’t good enough for something better than the pain I was experiencing with him. I needed him to think I was good enough so that I could believe it too! I now know that I CAN believe it – all by myself. Now that I can believe I am worth way more than his nonsense, I no longer consider not having been good enough for him – of course I was! I was too bloody good for him! You’ll see the same thing, in time. Keep reading.
It isn’t that you meant nothing. It is that he doesn’t have the capacity to form an intimate relationship so will do what he can to dodge the discomfort of it. That is who he is and that won’t change by you waiting around. You can’t make that happen. Men like that would rather lose the relationship than put themselves in that uncomfortable vulnerable position. They give mixed signals all the time – to draw you in to a position comfortable to them when you get too close they push you back. The signals seem mixed to us but it makes perfect sense to them because it keeps you in that holding position.
It doesn’t mean he’s a complete jerk – just looking after himself emotionally at your expense. It is likely to always be like this Gina. You are doing the right thing. It is painful but it won’t last and it is the right thing.
I don’t get it though, he’s had relationships in the past. Why is it that he didn’t want anything exclusive with me? I don’t want to wait around anymore, maybe if anything he’ll respect me and maybe one day realize what mistake he has made.
He sent me a text the other day, no “hi, hello, how are you.” Just straight into talking about himself…I did not reply and felt guilty all day for it.
I feel very low, like I’m turning away something that could’ve gone so much better. And yet, I don’t think I was good enough for him because he moved away and even before that it was the same. He told me he didn’t want to lose me, that he really liked me, etc. Ugh.
gina
he doesn’t want to be exclusive with anyone or he wouldnt be jerking you around. Exclusive people are just that – exclusive. They don’t have dozens or even a few possibilities hanging around.
You are obsessing. We are all telling you the same thing but you won’t let it go. I understand what you are going through having just been through it myself. But there is light at the end of the tunnel. Starts on that lovely day when you wake up and aren’t thinking about him. Even if you do think about him ten seconds later, it’s in that ten seconds that the corner is being turned.
I am free of the obsession and it is absolutely wonderful. Don’t fear what will be left if you stopped obsessing. It’s good stuff.
None of your agonising and worrying is fruitful. I suggest you do other stuff, even if it’s just watching dvds or going for a walk. Yes, you may still think about him but at least it will be parked further back in your mind.
The texts are so lame. Come on, you’re a grown woman analyzing and agonising over — a text. My 16 yo niece doesn’t do that. And yes, she’s got a proper boyfriend . One she sees with her eyes and hears with her ears. Texting is rubbish. Nuke him. Mind you, there’s so little there, nuking is overkill. I expect a peashooter would see him off.
Gina,
He’s just not the right guy for you is all. Topline data. He could be the most available man on the planet, and you could be the most worthy and desirable woman on the planet, and none of that means anything because you simply are not compatible.
It’s not about you.
“It’s not about you. To continue to make it about you is like having an incredibly strange codependent relationship with the universe while having delusions of blame-absorbing-grandeur. Your personal results from your actions are the mirror that you need to hold up to yourself.”
http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/its-not-about-you/
He can really like you, and not want to lose you, and that can even be true, and STILL not mean that he is willing or ABLE to give you a “mutually fulfilling, co-piloted relationship.” You are adding meaning to words that isn’t there, and getting hung up on the words that you DO want to hear while ignoring what you don’t like, “he doesn’t want a relationship.”
All of the waffling and wondering what this has to do with you and your self-worth is only serving to continue to keep you disconnected from reality and avoiding letting go of the fantasy and thoughts (and really you are hung up on the thoughts and possibilities – none of what you fear losing is actually REAL) and feeling your deep feelings of loss, rejection and grief. It is very common for those of us who don’t value ourselves to feel tremendous guilt when we protect ourselves with boundaries and move on. It’s very uncomfortable at first, but the initial pain of change will pass and you will feel better. Being more in touch with reality will help you see these situations in the future for what they are early on, and you will not even bother with them.
Another article from Natalie that could be illuminating:
http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/letting-go-of-a-relationshipthat-doesnt-exist/
Do a search on this site for, “it’s not about you.”
Read EVERYTHING on BR, actually. Your mind will internalize the clarity and messages and start to filter into your understanding over time even if you don’t get it at first.
Well these things are complex and every relationship is different but I would say the easiest way to tell the difference between whether he is unavailable or you are just not someone he wants a relationship is whether they end things respectfully or keep you hanging on while they blow hot and cold and keep you as an option. I wouldn’t be blinded by the fact that he has had relationships before. Lots of men and women hold down long term relationships and marriages while being unavailable. They still blow hot and cold and keep their options open and drive their partners crazy. The outside world doesn’t always see it though. Which ever one he is still has the same outcome for you though unfortunately.
You are worth it. You are worth putting your efforts into someone who wants the same thing as you. You are worth more than wasting your time over someone who, for whatever reason, won’t give you the relationship you want. Be strong Gina and don’t waste any more time waiting around.
Gina
(I’m not stalking you – just seem to be catching most of your posts!)
You don’t know what his ‘relationships in the past were like’. Maybey the fact that they are ‘in the past’ is a good indicator! Flip flappers flip flap in all their relationships. When I first met my ex EUM I remember him mentioning how his previous g/f slapped him on the face. I asked him why she did that and he said ‘because I wouldn’t communicate with her’. Eeewww. I think he was warning me.
Gina, I think you are the one who will realise what a mistake you made with him and that what he realises will be be of no consequence.
My ex always went straight into talking about himself too. They are ‘avoiders’ and so are we. We are just avoiding different things (or are we?!)
You feel you are not good enough to deserve him. Well, you are right – you don’t deserve him. You deserve better than him.
Polly
Well said! That’s the problem exactly.
Fantasy Relationship Touch Test:
1. Distance in space or time – tick
2. A moderating excuse – tick
3. Crumb communication – tick
4. Failure of the touch test – can’t touch them physically three times a week on separate days of the week over a number of weeks – tick
Fantasy relationship!
Can I ask for a word of advice on this topic, I don’t know if it’s exactly on topic, but I’m struggling with this right now. I broke it off with my EUM (which he definitely is, and I’m somewhat of a typical Florence Nightingale..) after a relationship of nearly 3 years, with a lot of push and pull, breaking up, making up situations.
I broke it off little over a month ago, and he knows from previous times I am conducting NC as he recognises it and knows where I ‘got my inspiration from’: BR, he found me here last year.
The reason I broke it off is because (well, I was tired) he stayed out all night till late in the morning drinking with 3 women I know but I don’t consider my friends, at one of their’s home. In fact, I have a lot of difficulties with these particular friends as I would call them frenemies and they make me highly insecure. He knows this very well. He claims nothing happened, and since I doublechecked I do believe him. But it was enough for me to not to trust him, I have had issues to trust him before, through various similar behaviour of this kind. I’m doing quite well with the NC, haven’t broken it, but last night a mutual friend said he stays home all the time (which I don’t believe) and he thinks he did nothing wrong and I blew it over nothing. (I didn’t ask for this information and made it quite clear she shouldn’t mention him again)
But I feel that over time I’m getting more insecure about the ending because the anger fades.
What do you do when the anger fades, and the memories of bad behaviour fade and you start to question your own reaction knowing that they crossed a boundary. He said he didn’t understand why I blew off the relationship and he turned it around saying I was agressive, selfish and had ‘serious issues’ he couldn’t help me with. Somehow because of that I started reading these blogpost in a way as if I acted the jerk, not him. It’s got me all confused. It’s allways been like that actualy, he’s playing victim and I start to believe him.
Try not focusing on the one event that led you to cut contact but all the other reasons why the relationship wasn’t working. You have talked about him being emotionally unavailable and the push me pull you nature of it. Maybe you could write about all the other things that he did that upset you and left you feeling wanting and frustrated. Because even if you forgive and forget the late night drinking incident (and if it was a one off event in an otherwise healthy relationship then you may be right to do so) all the other things will still be there and you will be getting back on the merry-go-round. Focus on the reality of the whole picture of the relationship and see this as a catalyst to bring about the ending rather than cause itself.
Thank you Polly, I do hear what you’re saying.
As I do understand I shouldn’t overly fantasize about the good stuff, it does hold me back from moving on by doing so. And no, it was certainly not a one off event, not identical but all similar and many times the reason why it broke off, by either him or me.
His last rescue attempt was to take us to counceling, but that didn’t feel right for me, it just didn’t and maybe that makes me selfish? Something broke within me with his last escapade. We were talking about a Great Future, but having a child with a man going off like that, I just couldn’t see myself do it (anymore). What if he would dodge his responsibilities the same way when having a mortgage and young baby? I couldn’t see myself coping with that. Or taking that risk. And that is the main reason I think.
“Focus on the reality of the whole picture of the relationship and see this as a catalyst to bring about the ending rather than cause itself”
The words are so wise and read so clearly, but I can’t seem to hold on to that advice for long enough without daydreaming again. Ugh. This has been a huge support in many ways but in other ways I don’t always recognise things in the posts what then makes me doubt my very own issues with the EUM and makes me insecure.
Mindcracker. But at least I’m not tired of the work needed to be done on myself, to make myself become more EA. I hope one day I’ll make it. I have taken leave from work to focuss on this, I spend my days writing in daytime and doing something nice with a friend in the evening. It’s a start.
WH
The way it worked for me was in stages. First I had to ‘get it’ – have that awareness of the truth of the situation. It then took a while to gain the strength to know that NC was the only way and then I had a gradual phase of getting properly behind that decision. Initially it was driven by anger but slowly this shifted – the anger and rawness about the particular incident fades but this gets replaced by an acceptance of the futility of the whole relationship and gradually you just get stronger and it gets easier. I am six months the other side of a truly horrible experience. I can look back now and the absolute worst point for me was about a month in of NC – the initial high (I seem to remember someone else describing it as this) of feeling empowered / liberated etc fades and the nostalgia, doubts and emptiness kick in. But if you can look forward another 4 or 5 months and if you stick with it and do the work I can almost guarantee
that you will feel much much better x
Keep a journal and feelings diary. I do. I can tell you why I broke up with that the guy years ago, because it is all written there, right down to the date it happened. I won’t forget all my reasons!!
Excellent also for when they bump into you years later and act all nicey nice. ‘Hey, do you remember that time I thought we were dating, but you were seeing other people and you disappeared for an ENTIRE MONTH only to resurface with a text, remember that?” Hahahaha!
Hey Polly, TOA,
yes, I keep the diary, but I tend to get stuck on still focussing on him e.g. ‘I felt this way because he….’ and then I linger on about him. I think he was a troubled soul (well, he said so), who himself got stuck on being a ‘troubled soul’ and he’s doing therapy to ‘accept’ he’s like that instead of taking the advice (and the hints he gets his environment) and working on solving that. He’s therefor going into therapy to feel better about being like that, more, he’s going in to learn to ‘cope with the fact’ he’s EUM rather than solving it. And what I got out of that in our relationship was even more distance and closing up by him because he felt he was doing his part, only he actualy became more arrogant about him acting the way he did. And I struggle with (the wrong focus yes) feeling sorry for him. I really do. It kinda breaks my heart. I feel so sorry for him, because ‘he’s not thàt bad a guy’ *sigh* I need to work on focussing on myself instead of him. It’s another way of continuing our relationship. I know that. But I can’t seem to stop doing it. As you probably notice :-S I seem to get all the wrong emotions (anger, hurt, pitty = for him) rather than dealing with my own person. (I’ll read ‘get out of stuck’ once more I guess)
Many of the posts on BR did not make sense to me or stick because I was in the denial phase, the information just could not get through to my brain.
I took myself off to the psychologist, very expensive, but worth it. At my first consultation, they treated me as if I had just had a standard break up, but what I had to do was go back again and tell them that while I wanted to talk about the break up, I wanted to spend most of the time talking about the broader recurring pattern. That’s when I started getting somewhere with them.
I was stuck for 7 months, while under a dating ban (now lifted) and seeing a psych weekly and under NC and reading BR daily and NC rule mail (phew!) in fantasy LaLa. Only when I saw the AC in the club with someone else (new victim) did the fantasy really shatter. Even as late as 7 months down the track, I was still making plans to ring the assclown up and try to be friends. I spent 6 months 24/7 ruminating with my thoughts going into obsession overdrive – it was so loud that I had to buy an iPod and put music on to override my thoughts. Three months of my journal is dedicated to pure rumination and coulda, woulda shoulda. It was the hardest thing I have ever done – and at least my AC cut me off- many other readers don’t have this luxury.
Don’t feel bad, drop into a psych and let it all out. Cut off all contact, totally is worth it.
Don’t give yourself a hard time WH. It takes time to work through. You don’t go from being obsessed with someone and being madly in love (and I use this term loosely – lets say ‘having intense feelings’) to suddenly focusing on you. It takes time and work. He may very well be all those things and it can’t be great being him – but that has to be for him to deal with. Feeling sorry for someone is fine but not when it results in a negative impact on you.
You should focus on how the relationship made you feel and moving from things that make you feel bad to things that make you feel better.
It doesn’t matter why he is like he is. What matters is you feeling good about you and being happy and at peace. I know I spent bloody ages trying to analyse mine and look for reasons why he is like he is. Now I just tell myself – he treated me badly and he has some characteristics I dislike. End of. But I have a few months on you. Like I said, it takes time.
Hey Natalie,
I just howled and cried a bit when I got to the section of the book where you describe the characteristics of a dreamer. “Very routine-gym, work, supermarket, gym, work, supermarket, gym work supermarket, do the same thing, gym, work, supermarket…lather, rinse, repeat.” Are you spying on me?
I know you’ve told me at least 100 times, seek some new opportunities. So I took the day off work and ventured an hour and a half north to interview for a new job. What a wonderful experience. Of course, since I have a good job that I like (I’m very grateful and fortunate), I was not desperate and doing the “pick me, pick me” thing. There is no” job void” to fill. I just relaxed, enjoyed the difference in the day, and the possibility of a new opportunity or not. I didn’t fantasize about the new job one drop. And I kept thinking would this be a fit for me? Clearly I can’t know for sure after an hour and half interview with 7 strangers but it felt good. I felt good. I can now see what you and the others are talking about with regards to dating. I can see that meeting a guy when your life is full is very different from what I’ve done in the past. There was a void and I expected him to fill it based on a fantasy.
In any event, thank you. If I get called back for a second-level interview that would be great and I’d enjoy another day outside my routine. If not, I now understand what you mean about seeking new opportunities. Who would think a job interview would be relaxing and fun! Is it possible dating could be relaxing and fun?
Love the new book and the new perspectives. Thank you as always for sharing.
Thanks Runner#1 for asking the question, is it possible that dating could be relaxing and fun. I will not even date until my answer is a resounding yes. Positive, not compulsive. I just cancelled a first date. I realized that I agreed to meet much too soon, just because he asked and he seemed decent. I wasn’t actually ready, and it took me days to even notice that. No way was it going to be relaxing because I was already not in tune with my own needs of how to pace it.
I have been applying for jobs too. Unlike you though, I am in fact quite impatient to leave my current position and I have been searching furiously. I interview, it goes well (as do the first few dates in the case of men) and I get obsessive during those few weeks of the committees doing their slow motion hiring thing. You are so right. I do fantasize about the job for the first week or so. How much better life would be… As the process winds through HR, I start having second thoughts. Maybe it’s not the perfect job. Perhaps they don’t want me. Maybe I should keep looking. And I do; I apply to the next one before the first place makes a decision. At one point I thought I was getting multiple offers and panicked because I had no idea which job I actually want. If the jobs were men, this would be typical unavailable behavior! I need to chill out already!
Hey Cavewoman,
Good to hear from you. Good for you for getting in touch with yourself before you went on the date, even if it took a few days to notice. Sounds as though you are trusting yourself. That’s a really good sign, date or no date. Most importantly, notice how it wasn’t about HIM that YOU weren’t ready yet?
With regards to job hunting, that is what is so brilliant about Natalie’s work, it applies to all areas of life including dating, job hunting as well as choosing a wedding dress. Sounds like chill time is in order on the dating front and the job hunting front! Natalie’s new Dreamer book is really great for chilling.
I didn’t do any of my typical OCD thinking this time or even fantasize about how wonderful life would be if only… Since I’m perfectly happy in my current position, any job offers would have to meet or exceed the status quo. I think that’s what made the experience so different. There’s no void on the job front. I also have boundaries around accepting a new position. My boundaries give me the confidence and the ability to trust myself. I want to keep re-living that feeling. I think it was the feeling of NOT chasing a fantasy and/or NOT chasing a feeling and NOT feeling the need to prove myself worthy. The hiring committee made up of seven strangers was NOT directing or influencing my self worth. It was lly unusual but nice. I’m starting to see that what I’m doing with respect to a potential career change can be applied to dating. First and foremost, there must be no void that I try to fill with some fantasy dude. And no random guy can direct or influence my self worth. And I’ve got to have boundaries. I know this is BR 101 but I’m a slow learner!
Hang in there Cavewoman. It’s slow going sometimes. It’s better to be learning slowly than chasing a fantasy who is EUM/AC/MM.
I’m reading the book – still trying to digest what I’ve read.
I didn’t think I had fantasy relationships. Err, wrong again Fearless. I knew I fantasised about the man I wanted to be with or was “with” (e.g. ex EUM), but since I was largely conscious of doing it – like daydreams – I didn’t think I was having a fantasy relationship, as such, just a daydream about it! (if that makes sense).
I’m definitely a dreamer. I have always day dreamed about some crush or another since I was a teenager. But I knew it was fictional. I didn’t know it was a problem. I do now! My daydreams/nightdreams about how I wanted the relationship with the now ex EUM to be or to look like were remarkably detailed – I could play out whole imagined scenarios in my head (not every day! Just sometimes. It has to be said, I did this less and less and less as the relationshit went on) I knew I was doing it. I was perfectly conscious of it – like a hobbie! I sometimes would tell myself ‘this is probably not healthy, Fearless, – if anyone could see inside your head right now, they’d think you were bonkers! But hey, I know I am just fictionalising and it’s entertaining me for a minute, so what’s the problem (eeek, or so I thought). In contrast to the extraordinary detail I could paint into the ‘dreaming’, the reality with this ex EUM was very vague/hazy – just as you say in the book Natalie. This point you made startled me when I read it. So true. I hadn’t thought of it like that before.
Now that it’s been brought to my attention I have been looking back into the recesses of my memory – childhood/teenage years/twenties/thirties… Oh God – now that I think about it I have been a daydreamer all my life and not just about boys/men, about lots of things. My daughter said to me a few weeks ago when we were talking about all these daft glamour girl celebs who have written novels ‘why don’t you write a book, mum?’ And I said, ‘Och! I don’t have the imagination to write a book!’ Ha! I might think on that again
Holy Crow Natalie, I’m reading the section in your new Dreamer book, “The Truth About Lies” and the “Long Shot Mentality”. So absolutely true with regards to me. Here’s a line that jumped out at me: “Whatever you believe has caused you to end up being a Dreamer and a Fallback Girl, it’s not what you believe is absolutely true in the wider sense, but what you believe is true in the context of your beliefs and the type of relationships you engage in.” Dear lord, of course I engaged in fantasy relationships and faux goals so as to avoid failure. I got involved knowing up front that there was no chance. Then I flogged him and myself when the no chance came to fruition. Oh yeah, I most certainly slipped my unavailability in through the back door of his unavailability.
This is a great book Natalie. So many great insights. I can’t read it quickly and can only get through about 5-10 pages and then I have to stop and think.
Natalie, you are a brilliant author and an even more brilliant observer of human behavior. Ladies this is a total must read even though it may take a while because it’s chock full of wonderful stuff. It sent me back to unloading more baggage.
u r of wisdom