Fantasies are useful for exploring ideas – a bit like a mental dummy run. They can enable you to tap into your creativity, examine who you are or ideas about what you want from yourself and your life in the future, sexual desires, and even to work through issues. Some of these may be things that you don’t want to make into a reality – for example, you may have a fantasy of having a three-way but the idea of it may turn you on more than actually taking the actions to do so. Other fantasies, by helping you identify what may be unacknowledged desires and aspirations, can also help you to refocus your efforts, make small, medium or even big changes, and recognise areas of your life that are not satisfying you.
I fantasised about being self-employed, writing all the time, getting my ideas out there. I did the latter but, eventually, as I was being put in the position of making choices that turned me in a different direction from what I wanted, I had to put my proverbial money where my mouth was. I’ve now been self-employed, writing full-time and putting my ideas out there for nearly four years at the time of writing this. I’d fantasised for most of my life about feeling accepted, loved, empowered and being in a loving relationship – in real life, I had a string of relationships with unavailable men, one of whom even had a girlfriend. Again, I’ve had to walk the walk because it turned out that these ideas and desires were not things I wanted to leave in my unconscious while my real life resembled a motorway pile up. That fantasy has also become a reality – I love and like myself and I’m in a loving relationship, which means I experience a great deal of happiness and satisfaction in my life, individually and within my relationship.
You’ll notice that your fantasies have crossed into unhealthy when there’s such a great disparity between your ideals and reality, that it leaves you hungry, frustrated, agitated, disappointed and even resentful. It’s difficult to see when you’re knee deep in it, but it’s hard for those who are affected. I’ve seen people so caught up in their vision of what their ideal job or career looks like, that they made life very difficult for their colleagues. My own mother made her dissatisfaction that her family wasn’t like the Brady Brunch clear. We hadn’t met her fantasy of what family looked like and she often compared us to others – we just felt like major let downs and eventually came to recognise that we couldn’t please her and that she was missing out.
I get it – real life sometimes isn’t all that thrilling. I also understand that particularly when you’ve had a difficult childhood and have had to cope with painful experiences, often needing to fantasise for self-preservation, it’s not uncommon to not only get used to this mode of being, but to have greater expectations and ideas about what can make you happy. That said, whether you’ve become this way as a child or an adult, these expectations about what your life ‘should’ and ‘would’ be, if only XYZ, can cause you to miss out on being an active part of your present, especially when you get trapped in inaction or feeling resentful of those around you. Life is sometimes a pain in the arse, miserable and bloody awful – it doesn’t stay that way forever though, especially if you don’t hold on to these feelings and stagnate in your life.
Having some fantasies can brighten up a day, remind you of your dreams and aspirations, and motivate you, but it’s dicey territory when they disrespect your reality to the extent that you’ve taken your hands off the wheel of your life.
All of this fantasising is like pressing your face against the shop window of your own mind and torturing yourself about things you think you can’t or won’t have, even though it turns out that these things are available for free, with some healthy work that doesn’t feel like ‘work work’.
Don’t get things twisted and think that daydreaming or having fantasies is a bad thing – it’s not. However, there’s daydreaming, then there’s living in a dreamlike state, making decisions based around it without much thought for what’s happening in reality. There’s a reason it’s called daydreaming – it’s using your active state to be inactive by dreaming about what is likely to be a fantasy about happy stuff when you’re awake, which distracts you from life. It’s like life-jacking yourself – you can’t make things happen and be in sniffing distance of a chance of it, if you’re not in reality making it happen.
Your thoughts?
You can find out more about fantasy relationships (no they’re not just about imaginary people!), why we get into them, the types and how to navigate out of them with my book, The Dreamer & the Fantasy Relationship.
Holiday Update
- I’m knackered. I don’t know if it’s the whole back to school thing but I was asleep on the sofa just after 7pm last night. I woke up drooling, which might be because Em was cooking chicken… Today Nia fell asleep on me which forced me to have a lunchtime nap. It’s rare that she naps and with just under a week to go until she starts school, I savoured our quiet time together.
- My friend has asked me to take part in a triathalon next year. I laughed my head off in response.
- It’s girls night out tomorrow. I was almost tempted to cancel due to feeling so pooped but dirty laughing and silliness will probably give my mojo a boost.
- I realised the other day that I could do with slowing down and doing the minor things that I put off. Like fixing my bra strap. Seriously – how damn busy can somebody be that their bra straps are annoying them for months on end yet they do nothing about it? It was getting on my tits (haha) having to keep pushing my straps back up. I realise I’m not alone as even my mother-in-law is a strap faffer.
- I’m sure I’m not the only person who got overexcited by the Homeland and Downton Abbey trailers?
- My bro is taking a much overdue holiday in Italy at the moment and he called me to show off his lovely hotel on Facetime and also to tip me off to this utterly ridiculous but belly laugh inducing video of ‘Minnie Mouse’ twerking at a kids birthday party. We were both doubled up laughing on the phone to each other!
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I have been reading your articles and they resonate with me. Due to where my parents lived and other circumstances, I always had long-distance relationships and now, with the internet, I have been in what amounts to a “fantasy” relationship that took over all of the real estate of my mind and I found my adult self drifting back into my adolescent self of being immobilized by a recent cessation of communication, distance, and disappearance. Of course, I wanted to know “why?” and have 1,000 letters/emails in my head I’d like to send. Rationally, and with the support of BR, I know that no message means “I don’t want to talk to you” and the reason is immaterial (although probably another women). I dislike that I fell into this fantasy and repeated former behavior.
Merri
I know how you feel … You find yourself in the house, in the car, anywhere having this imaginary conversation where you tell him how his words/actions have hurt, where you point out the promises he never came good on, where you tell him how a decent human being should act. OMG how you would love to have him contact just one last time so you could get it off your chest and feel like ‘THAT TOLD YOU!’ the reality is he knows all this already and thats why he wont contact cos he cant face someone holding up a mirror to his shady behaviour. Maybe a few weeks/months down the line he might try to get in touch again once he thinks the heat might be off…. dont fall for it like I did. Stay NC and accept that although you will never get your moment to tell him exactly what an AC he is you can do the next best thing and tell us and get much more positive results. STAY STRONG X
Most nights before I fall asleep I let myself fantasise about this man that I fell for. He has told me that he is emotionally unavailable for a relationship and doesn’t want either of us to get hurt. I’ve spent the past month working through this disappointment. Only moments before I read this post I was mentally arguing with myself the merits and disadvantages of imagining these fantasy scenarios with him. I laughed out load when I saw the title of this post…perfectly timed.
Merri,
I know is not easy to hear someone tell you they understand, but I know how you feel. I meet this guy when I travelled overseas and we had this amazing chemistry, the night I left to go home it was like those Hollywood love story. But after 2 months of talking, texting, FaceTime you name it everyday telling each other how much we miss each other, he keep telling to hold on to us and that he is hoping their is a brighter future for us once he move to my country for work. They minute he was about to come over here he pull the plug on me and tell me he doesn’t want to get to know me anymore and that he doesn’t want a relationship right now. I was confuse and off course sad from those hurtful words. And like most us girls we like to fantasing our beautiful ending with a man who we think will want to be with us as much as we want to be with them. But the truth is if they don’t see how beautiful we are in the first place, there is no reason for us to hold on to them. I always have me exes calling me up after we broke up and tell me how sorry their were for hurting me and want to make things up for me. However, there are reasons to why we let them walk away in the first place, no matter how hard it gets we need to move on. I’ve been hurts many times and only time will heal every pain in your heart. Sometimes you wonder why this have to happened, but I know is for the better. I m now in my day 3 of NC and its killing me but I know this is for the best
Natalie,
That lively little Nia of yours. Melted my heart right out of my chest to hear of ya’lls nap. I smile every time you mention your sweet babies.
I never in a million years thought I’d yearn for a baby or family of my own. When the time is right. I’m near making myself sick with school. I’ve got to calm it down a bit, get to a peaceful place, and enjoy the journey. I’m just imensely grateful I get to study what I am. I’m eating it up with a voracious appetite. I must remember patience and pacing myself. I tend to get frantic and collapse. There has to be a better way! I’ll find it.
Take care Nat, take a rest, and give those precious girls of yours a big squeezy hug!
My MMAC dumped me after 6 1/2 yrs then after me going NC for 7 months got back in touch telling me ‘I promise I wont hurt you … I dont want to risk losing you again’. I took it in because I was still in love with the fantasy life I would have with him ….once he would leave his wife. Last week (8 months after this promise) he turned round in an argument when I challenged him about the fact
I had stated VERY clearly that this time I wouldnt accept being a mistress
that I had made it clear that unless he was certain that in the very near future he was getting divorced and leaving (he told me that load of bull the first week I met him!) leave me alone
He said “When you talk to me like that why should I leave my wife for you?” Talk about my fantasy bubble popping. He had never said that to me before and would know that on a scale of 1 to 10 that would be the most hurtful thing to say to me. Suddenly my so called Best Friend/Lover/Fantasy Partner in the slip of a tongue had laid his cards on the table. I was just in a competition where the woman who put up and shut up the most was obviously the one he was going to stay with. It was like someone had taken the blinkers off. Talk about feeling like an ABSOLUTE IDIOT.
I realised I was in love with the idea of me and him together in our own little world when in fact if I did get the reality of him leaving I would end up with a man who came with a whole load of baggage. I wrote an unsent letter to myself … in it I came to understand that although I had never known him then I was in love with the 35 year old single version of him before he was married or had kids not the 55 year old who was prone to very black moods, who would never take me out or go on holiday with me, who would have a crazy ex wife who would make my life hell, who would always put his family first … something he would never see me as). With that ONE vindictive sentence my fantasy is over and every time I make the mistake of thinking about texting phoning or seeing him it stops me dead in my tracks. Its early days of NC but it keeps my thoughts firmly in reality …. thank God.
So, what does he need from you to leave his wife? To be a doormat? Then why would he leave her if you put up with it?
He must think he is the grand price or something.
Allie, too right, all those years of me chasing the relationship fantasy must have resulted in a healthy ego. Last year when he suddenly decided to end things I was in bits, trying to convince him it was a mistake, then after a month of texts, calls and drama filled discussions I read the fallback girl and went NC and he changed his mind. Like a fool I gave him a second chance, but this time what he said was so shitty I have NO urge to chase him at all. He must be wondering what the hell I’m playing at …. isn’t this the part where she’s supposed to be trying to win me back? …. NO CHANCE!
Intothelight, were you dating my ex??!? Seriously!! That sounds EXACTLY like my AC narcissist ex!!!! Except, in my case, I was crazy/naive/stupid (take your pick) enough to take him back not once, twice, but three times!!! After the third, I had had enough anyway, and when I snooped on his phone and found the pics of his prostitute-gf in Thailand, including naked pics of her in his bed, and her kissing him on an outing, that was the end for me, in my head anyway. I didn’t end it (though I confronted him), but I wanted to give him another chance. He accepted it, only to dump me a few months later, after causing me weeks of agony by his silent treatment, etc. This time, though, I didn’t chase after him when he gave me the silent treatment. He got mad. Then, after he finally broke up, he wanted to be friends (add me to his harem) and I (stupidly) accepted, only for him to remove me from facebook and pretty much discard me as a “friend” after I posted a picture of myself, with the caption “I’ve never felt so good in the past year” (this came weeks after he broke up with me, mind you). Anyway, he had expected me to pine for him and beg him to take me back or whatever, or to feel really really upset and not want to go on with my life, because that somehow (in his sick mind) validated him and confirmed to himself that he was important and valuable. What a sicko. Anyway, I of course did not chase after him after he removed me from facebook. This made me him wonder, and possibly fume. He sent me an email (passive aggressive, justifying his behavior, telling me he was going to Thailand!). After that email, I blocked him on all forms of media/communication means, including email and the phone, but somehow, the app that I used to block the texts on my phone, failed, and I got 2 of his messages that he had sent a while back. The last one he sent me was something like 2 weeks ago, telling me that I was pissed off, and that he would leave me alone and thanks for the good memories. Almost like a veiled threat to never talk to me again if I don’t respond. I know his mind games, and that’s exactly what his message was aimed at conveying. Anyway, ignored that, and so far, nothing from him, and let’s hope it stays that way because my drama-tolerance levels have dipped below zero. lol.
Holy crap! Yup it’s so eerie how we have the same assclown experiences. My ex MM left his wife and came over to tell me so. Not so we could be together though like he future faked me with. He told me to not have any expectations from him and tried to get me to have sex with him. I just laughed in his face. How do these idiots expect us to believe anything they say? Not wearing rose colored glasses is really enlightening. I too am guilty of this fantasy BS. But no more. I am constantly checking my boundaries. Reality is where I need to be. Lara, Intothelight, it’s so crazy that we have these experiences. It’s like there is an assclown hand book they all have access to. Ugh
“He told me to not have any expectations from him”
Mine kept saying this too. I should’ve taken his word for it, and stopped having ANY expectations from him — by showing him the door. Mine thought he was so gorgeous that I’d kill myself over him if he left me. And really, I had such low self-esteem that I may have (though he left me 3 times and no, I didn’t even try, obviously). Imagine that! God. I was SO stupid. Yes, I think there is an element of them working right out of a handbook. Honestly, I think they do look into self-help books a lot, these types. Not that there’s anything wrong with self-help books, but they like pick-up artistry type of stuff, how to woo a woman, how to have sex with a hot woman in 3 simple steps type books, and yes, it shows what sort of AC they are. Of course, no books about how to get into or maintain healthy relationships. God no, relationships, what are those and who needs them when one is so great as to get all that one wants without having to commit, take responsibility, etc.? Anyway, any time a guy tells me not to have any expectations, I will not have any, and will not want to have any dealings with him. You see, I DO have expectations from people I associate myself with: like, expecting to be treated with a modicum of decency and respect. I’ve learned to flush and I’ve been flushing so often these days (both with men and friends), that I feel like I live in a big f*cking washroom!
On another note, I had this fantasy that if I went out enough (to pubs/bars, etc.), I would one day meet prince charming (i.e. a decent guy) who would be willing to get into and maintain a normal, healthy relationship. Now I see those fantasies for what they are: utterly ridiculous. Most men, let alone those in pubs/bars, are only after one thing most days/times: sex. No strings attached sex, that is. What was I thinking?I am happy to report that I have lost all willingness to go out to pubs/bars and am no longer going out to pubs on my own every night (which turned me into a highly functioning alcoholic). I used to go out alone to the pub every evening. Now, I have learned to embrace my loneliness and the fact that I can’t fast-forward to a romance nor will I likely find it in a pub. I have learned to embrace loneliness and even boredom, and to make the best out of it, by hanging out with myself, spending some quality time with myself, being my best friend, and just doing the things I enjoy doing, including enjoying a quiet night in, with some popcorn and a movie in bed, or a bed-time book. I love it so far. I’m back in touch with myself, and I feel much healthier, emotionally. Still do experience setbacks, mostly in the form of cyber-stalking my ex (just out of curiosity, which I suspect isn’t healthy nor conducive to moving on), but I am fighting the urge. Honestly, I feel sooo much better than I’ve done in the past year and a half since I met my ex. I am so relieved he is out of my life in any and every capacity, and I have also learned to stay away from traveling / business men. No good will come out of associating with these people. If many men have commitment issues, those men do so more than the rest of the general male population. Really, I’ve noticed this from experience. Most of the men I’ve been involved with romantically or sexually have been those traveling type commitmentphobes. Possibly the fact that they get into jobs like that, is really because of their desire to stay away from home (possibly the wife) and to avoid any commitment to any one woman they may meet in any one city they may have visited. Instead, they can build as big a harem as they want. Stay away from these types, ladies. Do not fantasize about the man who will leave his house, belongings, even job, to settle down in your country and marry you. Some men will do that, but 99% of men, and especially commitmentphobes, will NOT. My ex (also the traveler/harem of foreign women he met on business trips type) kept future-faking me, by saying things like, his co-worker had met a woman in my city and had married her and now works from here, so it’s possible that he could do the same; that he’d already put in a request to be stationed in Canada, etc. Bla bla bla, all talk and no actual action. Turned out, his claim that he had put in a request was a big fat lie. He had also claimed, after being stationed elsewhere, that there were no longer any jobs left for him to do in my city, which were patently untrue as I found out that his co-worker (whom I had met on the day that I met my ex) had been sent out for multiple jobs here, requiring a month-long stay. Mine was a habitual liar, he even lied about small, insignificant stuff, to his co-workers or boss. He got caught in lies by his co-workers and boss a few times that I was around when he was on the phone with them… I never understood why he’d even lie about the stuff that he lied about — it’s not like he stood to gain anything from it, or that he was doing it to cover his *ss or anything… It was just random lies about insignificant stuff. Like, once, his flight back home got cancelled, and he called his boss back in England to tell him about it and to sort something out. He had earlier called the company that had booked him the flight, but when the boss asked him if he had already called them, he said no. Then his boss said, there is a note here on the computer system that you’ve already called them a few minutes ago… I was so confused as to why he’d even lie about it. When he hung up, he told me he was worried because he had been caught lying.. So it was definitely not a matter of confusion. I even comforted him and told him — supportive gf that I was (!) — that I am sure the boss will think that it was just because you are so confused and everything is all a mess and so last-minute that you forgot you had already called the company that booked the flight… God. If only I had seen all the red flags sooner than I did.
Part of my ability to break out of the habit of going out to pubs on my own / alcoholism was thanks to my illness (odd thing to say about illness) 2 weeks ago, after 2 weeks of immense work-related stress and deadlines which killed my immunity. I got sick with a cold, and was bed-ridden for nearly a week and a half, and even now, feel extremely tired and unwilling to go out. Just don’t feel like it, I don’t have that sort of energy, and besides, what’s the point? I’d rather enrich my life, with things that are worthy of my attention. Even movies are better at that than most of the men I’ve had the misfortune of meeting / having to deal with. It’s funny and odd how our bodies catch on to the fact that we are overdoing something, quicker than our brains sometimes do — and just shut down and force us to pay attention and change our habits. I’m definitely going to avoid going to pubs from now on, unless it’s with friends, which is what I used to do most of the time. It helps that the weather is getting cold, so I definitely won’t cave to any temptations, should they come back once I feel a bit more energetic. I don’t think so, though — I think I’ve had enough of that, too tired and sick of that scene, and I feel like it harmed my self-esteem more than it did any good to it. Going there day in day out, and being seen alone, couldn’t have given people the right impression about me. I felt like a loner, and I felt that most of the people who worked at the bar viewed me as one too. I realized that when I went to the same bar I frequently go to, with a bunch of friends, and saw the looks of surprise on the bar girls’ faces. Anyway, it was a wake-up call. I had fantasized that I could make new friends at the bar, with the people who were regulars, thereby enlarging my circle of friends, because I was having a real hard time with people at work and didn’t have much of a social circle. But it was the wrong strategy, I’ve now realized. I realized that I was also seeking validation from men in bars (and yes, I did do a few one night stands with men from bars both before and after my break-up with my ex — before the break-up, it happened because I had found out he had cheated on me, and he was also acting very distant / giving me the silent treatment during those weeks that I “cheated on him” ; I didn’t cheat on him, in my view, because I was never in a relationship to begin with — it was all a fantasy). Anyway, I realized that I wasn’t being validated by those men who suggested sleeping with me — I was actually just being used, and treated like a prostitute. They viewed me as easy material. I feel so bad about that now that I think about it, but I have learned to embrace the experience and learn from it, rather than get bitter and upset over the past.
Into,
Here we go again – Don’t call him “MY MMAC”. He’s married. He’s not yours!. I don’t know why that’s my pet peeve, but it is. I need to stop trying to correct everyone who uses the phrase and realize it’s a never ending quest to make some of ladies realize that using the term “MY” keeps you mentally engaged with him. He is ANOTHER WOMAN’S husband! You can’t logically refer to him as “My” anything. And even if he were unattached, why would you want to own, if you could, an AC?
I’m hard on you because I’ve been there, Into. I know the fantasizing and subsequent misery that takes place for the OW. You know it, too. So why persist in this folly? I really hope, for your sake, that you are finally serious about kicking him to the curb FOREVER. He is not going to leave his wife. Get it through your head for once and for all. Stop waiting for it and kidding yourself.
You are wasting precious time, and being unavailable to possibly meet a decent man. As long as you continue to listen to his BS you’re not giving yourself that opportunity. I was there only two years ago. Like you, it was one little thing that he did which was relatively minor compared to all the other crap he pulled one me. But that was the epiphany moment. I’ve come a long, long way since then. I’m not bragging or looking down my nose at you. On the contrary, I’m trying to shock you back to reality. I’m simply saying that if I can do it you can too. But it starts IN YOUR HEAD. Please stay NC. You say now that it is final for this umpteenth time? I hope so. It’s such a futile, soul destroying experience. You deserve better.
Into,
The reason his remark hurt you so much ( and I remember you telling us before that he said that to you) is because it represents total disrespect for you as a human being, a woman, who has feelings.
Tinkerbell
Thanks for the advice. When I wrote MY MMAC I didnt think of him as mine, I never did and that was the problem, its just MY story, being an English teacher I guess its only that it would have felt weird putting ‘The’!
I broke NC once and Im probably defensive because final did seem final at the time and I feel stupid enough without it seeming I made the same mistake over and over. Anyway once was enough and I now see what a fool I have been.
Some of the feedback is tough but when you choose shady behaviour I guess you cant be surprised that not all of what you hear is sugar coated.
Thanks again.
Tink:
You are right. I never use ‘My’ Assclown or EUM anymore. I knew the day I used ‘The’ and not ‘My’ as the day I started to get over him. I don’t want an assclown as part of my life. He is ‘Her’ problem now.
For me, it the cheating that still stings. I don’t want him back but the idea of him bring happy with someone else makes me still angry. Not sure why even after close to 1+ of NC. I very rarely think of him but when I do I literally boil with rage. And Karma is taking it’s sweet time getting to him. It like he can live a perfect life while being an AC, while I loved him and I still suffer the pain. Cheating..how I loathe it.
Confused, Mags, Into,
Isn’t it so? The moment you start saying “The” instead of “My” there’s a mental detachment that takes place. You start thinking of him as a non-person, an “It”. And I feel AC’s don’t deserve any more respect or consideration than to be considered an “It”.
I know everyone is different and it takes people different lengths of time to get a person out of your system. And, just because I didn’t have the big problem others have, does not mean that their struggles do not mean something to them. It’s just that messing around with someone else’s husband and expecting him to leave his wife, and often children, so that you can replace her is such an emotionally disturbing place for any woman to be in. So fraught with futility for numerous reasons. The sooner she realizes this the better. There are more negative implications in having an illicit affair because there are at least THREE people involved. When people say “MY EUM”, “MY AC”, granted they’re referring to their own experience, but it doesn’t even make any sense. The person is/was UNAVAILABLE. Given that, I feel the OW should then consider him an “It” and use the language of detaching for her own mental health and well-being. There’s no feeling of attachment when you start saying, “The” instead of “My”. And Into, I fail to see how the use of the English language has anything to do with this. I’m finally convinced that it will only be those who are really finished and have no more feelings, will find it even more appropriate to say “The EUM”, etc.
Finally, when you post about this kind of experience, in particular, you are obviously talking about “YOUR”, experience. Certainly, you would not be expounding about the intricacies of some else’s illict affair. Thanks for your views.
How about saying my ex – in an instance where he was not married/in a relationship with someone else? I agree there is nothing realistic in saying my MM (for obvious reasons) or my AC or EUM if being either of these makes or made (in the case of an ex) the person unable to reciprocate. As people are not objects I think the only time to say ‘my’ is when the other person is ‘yours’ – ie you are also’theirs’ or to put it another way, you are ‘each-other’s’ – in a mutually trusting, caring and co-piloted intimate relationship. And in the case of an ex you both ‘were’ in a co-piloted relationship. Of course the same can’t be theorised for family – they are ‘our’ parents/relatives whether we like it or not, regardless of reciprocity.
Strictly speaking, more accurate to say my relationship/ex relationship (we own how we conduct ‘our end’ of a relationship – be it fantasy, real, a combo whatever), my ‘lover’/fwb (implying only sex?). It’s getting a bit semanticy huh – I mean how do you define ‘relationship’? Does it take two by defination? If that was the case, why have descriptors (‘co-piloted’; ‘unavailable’; ‘fantasy’ etc). Also, we say my friend/friends or ex BFF etc (personally can’t tolerate fb shorthand for friendship – showing my age).
Hey Lizzp,
Thanks for your input. Yes, “my relationship,” or “ex-relationship” is fine. I have the issue with using “My” when the person clearly did not reciprocate and or was EU. However, the obvious exception would be “my ex husband, (you were married and shared at one time a reciprocal relationship). And of course we say “my friend” another reciprocal relationship. Clearly we cannot own another person as we would an object. But, I thank you for supporting my idea and adding a different spin on it.
Hi Tinkerbell, yes, but what if the husband/ex husband didn’t reciprocate in any real sense beyond the wedding vows?(on a tangent I tend to think men and women (in a general sense) understand and attach different meanings to words). My view is that in the first instance it is my hubbie\wife because marriage is a contract recognised by law and society, but we cannot assume that marriage automatically confers relational reciprocity in Nat’s terms of co-piloted relationship.
Lizzp
Lol!
Then you would have to call him “the husband” which would be very confusing to whoever you were speaking to. There is a point to it all but I don’t feel it’s of enormous significance. Call them what you like, but just don’t call them. (or text, email, IM or FB them)
Hahaha! Right on, Mymble.
Ok. Lizz, I asked for this. LOL! In that case I would not use “My”. You’re right. There are instances when the marriage went to sh#t very early. That was the case in my own 1st marriage. Consequently, in the rare times I speak of him I try to avoid saying “My ex”. But, I think I did say that regardless of the degree of reciprocity in a marriage he was still that woman’s husband. So if she calls him “My ex-husband”. I see nothing wrong with that. If it was a boyfriend whether or not it was good or it wasn’t good I would not call him “My ex” since that usually means there was a marriage. I’d specify. “My ex BOYFRIEND”. I don’t know. Lizz. For a person with such strong opinions, I’m not a very good debater. My thinking is black or white. So I concede, even though there will still be a lot of posters saying “My AC” and “MY EUM”. That still doesn’t make sense in my book, and it keeps you stuck. As far as other circumstances I think the person who is truly disengaged will not choose to use “My” if she can help it. But I’m not a relationship expert. (Hugs) Tink.
Tink, I don’t always hear people’s “my” as declaring possession of the person, but as distinguishing the MM or AC that they’re dealing with versus all the other ones discussed. A shorthand for “in my case” … but I do get how when you’re in the process of being NC, there comes a time when we rightly gag to use “my” anywhere near a reference to them. I think that happens pretty naturally; maybe something we can’t rush for others.
Into,
He had never said anything like that before, but had shown you repeatedly over 6+ years by never leaving his family .
Please address why you would yearn for the break up of a family- and the pain that it causes – and why you would settle for do little over this long period .
Allsion,
I think yearned is too strong a term … I just wanted him to come good on the promise he had made me. Naive in hindsight. I met him originally when my partner was suddenly terminally ill… he was his old friend who I had only ever heard of before. He stayed with me at his bedside for 6 weeks, in which he told me how he was in the process of leaving his wife and moving into a flat. I had always knocked back advances from MM, but didnt see him like that, in that he was already leaving her (or so he said) and because he was spending every day with me I had no reason to doubt he was lying …. gullible I know, but when someone dies you just need a friend. After several months of him ingratiating himself into every aspect of my life and ultimately ending up together his story of staying until his daughter, a teenager, was an adult seemed like a genuine request, again my naivety, I saw him as my best friend, someone who would never lie to me and surly not after all he knew I had been through.
Although him and his wife have led seperate lives for many, something I witnessed in those 6 weeks whilst my partner was dying, I always believed that he was telling the truth when he said that as soon as his daughter was an adult (she’s now 19) and making her own way he would leave the home.
Like I said before it sounds naive, but I thought I had no reason to think he was lying hence the shock of the split last year.
The price of an education.
Into,
He sounds like an out and out shit, taking advantage of you in your time of grief and vulnerability. Yes you were naive, but he really is a toad.
The timing of his split last year doesn’t surprise me – his daughter was coming of age, was possibly about to leave home, and the time was coming for him to come good on his word to leave his wife.
I’m soooo glad you have no urge to chase him now. I feel sorry for you, I feel sorry for his wife. What a vile man.
Mary W
Thats exactly what I thought at the time, but going NC I never got the opportunity to tell him. I broke it when I received an an out of the blue phone call telling me how his mother had had a heart attack and he didn’t expect her to last for much longer. I guess after the support he had shown me in my hour of need I convinced myself that as a decent human being I owed him. I finally got the chance to tell him how he had made me feel, and yes I challenged him about the fact that his daughter was now an adult and his previous reason for staying no longer applied. He said she was in the process of moving to a job in America and as soon as that was done he could focus on getting his house ready for selling. Funnily enough the goalposts got moved again… he needed to save to fix the roof, then he needed to save a bit more to get the driveway changed into a parking space …all in the name of making the house more desirable to sell in a depressed market blah, blah, blah. Guess what his daughter never went to the US and his mum is fine. It was this total carrot and stick situation that eventually made me snap and that was when the proverbial shit hit the fan. As I said before in previous posts when you see it in black and white it reads more like I have sh*t for brains! Its true when Natalie says that just because you are smart it doesn’t mean you are relationship smart. Thanks for the support.
Into,
He preyed on you like a vulture. He saw you were not only naive, which they can smell in a minute, but you were in the process of getting over your SO at that time. He wormed his way in pretending that he had only friendly intentions. You, knowing he was the friend of your SO, did not suspect that he would be so callous and devious. You learned. I trust that you know what to do and will not fall off the NC wagon. And I mean FULL NC, no halfway BS. I won’t say anything else about this.
Into, just so you know, these assclowns know exactly what they are doing. My relationshit w/my ex started after the death of my husband. He future faked me and then, like I wrote in the comment above, he did leave his wife after I had gone NC. He then came to my home to tell me he left and offered me a great time in bed, he said “you know your dying for it” It’s freakin hilarious that he thought I would do anything of the sort, after telling me not to expect anything from him. It is a shocking thing that they lie the way they do. I never asked him to leave his wife, EVER. They will lie even when there is no reason to do so. It’s really crazy. You were vulnerable, that is their “in” It is a lesson learned. Boundaries. They are the key.
My danger is fantasizing about others, what it would be like to be with them on a daily basis, in short, slotting them into the space in my life formerly occupied by my ex husband, then becoming angry when they don’t measure up, lack key values, have totally different ideas as to what life should look like. Have learned to take folks as they are, note potential problems, and bail even though that means bailing on darn near every man I meet. Have realized that my lifestyle is waaay beyond what most peers are OK with, that most are really into stuff like TV, pop culture, not into fitness, being deep into the woods, not into self sufficiency. That’s just the way most folks are. I do fantasize about escaping into the woods when I am stressed and trying to fall asleep, going back home to my humble farmstead, fighting the evil forces of mining and other forces of planetary rape (sorry if I offend, but this chick had her life threatened multiple times by pro mining types). This is actually what I will be doing upon retirement; that and growing really good tomatoes.
I too fantasise about really good tomatoes!
My dream/fantasy is to own my own home with enough room for my dogs, some veg and some chickens.
I’m stuck on translating the dream to reality. I have a realistic, achievable plan but I’m not doing the things I need to in order to carry out the plan.
Hopefully a counselling appointment this week might shed some light and help. Or a good kick in the bum!
I read something today about being an achiever – and that one important thing is to enjoy the journey. I think dreams like having the house you want are great, to keep you on track, and because who doesn’t want the house etc. However, what you have is today, the present, and so I think its equally important that you are living the process, and becoming a more present person right now. You might get the house and then other things go wrong or its not exactly what you wanted etc etc. I know this might not be what you meant, it just made me think of the ‘enjoying the process’ idea. Oh and the second rule was small manageable goals! So both those fit your dream while at the same time keeping you in the present enjoying your life as it is today.
Very good points Suki. You’ve given me something to think about and take to counselling. I have been thinking of the things I have to do as just a means to and end and have little enthusiasm for actually ‘living the process’.
I do have small manageable goals but I haven’t been focussing on them so that’s another good point.
Thanks again 🙂
Very true Suki. I tend to forget that. Enjoy the journey. No matter what the result is, the journey is what makes the difference. And being grateful for all I have today. And the faith that things will turn out well. Thank you.
I fantasise quite a bit about life, love etc not sure why but I’ve always been an optimist, but now I’m starting to think its kind of an escapism. I’m doing everything I can to really set my mind in reality. I spend a lot of time thinking about what an AC my ex is and how someone could be that way, but now I’m thinking just focus on what’s real my good job lovely daughter nice life in warm climate and the reality is quite good too. And the reality is, as my old boss used to say “it is what it is” don’t try to look for answers that are not there or fantasise about what could or should be. Just be. It’s not that easy for me as I tend to over analyse but it might all be an excuse to avoid hard work. I’ve really tried to change my optimism to realism. Good luck to all.
I still can’t tell the difference between a dream worth pursuing, and a pipe dream.
I wish I were back in Toronto, doing this work. But the dream job, that I would need to commit to, is here in a town that is frankly depressing in its lack of culture and diversity.
I can’t tell if I’m grass-is-greener-ing or not knowing how to compromise or what. Rev, I commend you for your bravery. After so many years of financial tenuousness, though, I’m going to aim for solid work in a place I dislike over nothing (though who knows what I could drum up if I went back) in a place I love.
And I got another handsome health practitioner (new massage therapist) yesterday who set off fantasy buttons (soon quelched by getting off the table and seeing the pics of the kids).
But there’s a dude at work (different dept; works, in fact, with the MM) who seemed kind of into me and who I think is single. And I have run through asking him to coffee a million times in my head. I don’t do it in part because when I indulge the fantasy, I also picture us getting together and him being boring or him ultimately being turned off by my body.
Frustrated with myself about this one. At least the meditation is, bizarrely, helping me get out of my head and stay in the moment.
I’d say ask him. That’s how I usually try to deal with my fantasy crush guys: “Normalize!” Talk to him, get used to the reality as opposed to your idea. See who he really is.
If he turns out to be a jerk, then your myth is debunked and you can move on.
Mags,
Please give yourself time. This is not the time to be fantasing about men. Focus on your health right now. You’ve indicated in a previous post that you know you have been neglectful of same. Once you have recovered from these health issues, you will even think more clearly about what man you appeals to you. Body and mind work in tandem. It seems that right now you are seeking validation with any man who looks good and who is logistically within your realm. Please stop. Get healthy first. Pamper yourself, and take care of your body. You only have one. I know you feel like you have to catch up because you’re getting older, but you’ll be so much better able to cope with the men who come into your sphere at a more favorable time. Even when it’s a good relationship there are ups and downs. You need to at least be physically up for it. All the best to you. Tink.
Call him up and ask him Magnolia. At the very least you might have a great coffee date and learn more about him rather than fantasizing (if you are).
I did that when I was in Toronto recently (I want to live there too!). I had met this young doctor/researcher several times and really liked his interests and manner. We do similar work. So I asked him out for a coffee – that took a bit of courage because we don’t know each other that well.
We went for a lovely lunch and then he re-asked me for a second lunch a few days later. It was just lovely, so interesting, such a fine person and although there is no romantic future in it I had a wonderful time and feel I have a new friend. It was also good for me to initiate it and be in the moment. It reminded me that this actually IS me not anxious, fearful and frustrated person I often am when around my ex.
Fantasy has played a huge role in my life. My ex never lived in the real world so I was, in many ways, the practical one in the marriage and in our business. I saw and planned ahead and got things done, often dragging him along behind me.
So I would say I see many parts of the world realistically but then I have to knock my head and remind myself that I lived in a fantasy marriage where I expected my ex to change and give me the empathy, thoughtfulness, partnership and respect I deserved. I kept believing in his good intentions and that what I SAID would change things. That was a pretty major fantasy.
Well I did it, stuck my hand back into the fire lol feel like a pretty big idiot today, he stayed with me Friday, said it wasn’t serious with her and that they were off and on all the time, gee apparently things never change, but I have, wanted a decision as I would not put up with his shit anymore, me or her, he has a pattern, when things are not going well with her then he contacts me. Even changing my cell phone number didn’t stop him he rang on the land line!! Apparently he loves, loves, loves me….but can I please give him some time hahaha nope sorry a hole I won’t.
Don’t think I will be hearing from him again though as I told him to stay with her, they deserve each other and I know where she lives and I have his lovely texts to show her if I do hear from him again 🙂
God it’s totally sad when it comes down to having to threaten him to stay away…but it’s my life not his and I have had enough people!!!
I am sitting at work trying not to cry…after all he has said and done I still believed him, it’s hard not beating myself up about it but I can’t help it, I wish I wasn’t so gullible, I wish I was a much stronger person who just told him to go fuck himself when I heard him on the phone.
I have never hated anybody in my life but I do him, I know it’s my fault for putting my hand back in the fire but I have never truly hated anybody in my life and it’s a horrible feeling..I have always been a forgive and forget kind of person. Can someone please explain how he can be like this??
I’m afraid no one can really tell you why he is like that – and it doesn’t matter anyway. Much MORE important for you to figure out why you are all caught up with a guy like this and continue to let him yank your chain. But do so from the position of the Observer, calmly and with much self-compassion.
I know it’s awful to feel like you hate someone. My experience with the ex led to all kinds of feelings I had never had before: hate (both for him and for myself), resentment, revenge fantasies, envy off the charts, and holding a grudge. I wouldn’t have chosen these feelings, but since they came, I figured I would try to learn from them. And I have! It gives me compassion for others who have had these feelings and so I really understand what you’re going through! You’re angry, you’re sad, you hate him… just accept all these feelings without beating yourself up about it.
I kept on thinking that things would be okay, that I would get my fantasy relationship with him, that we would live happily ever after..I have threatened him before with a restraining order but that didn’t work either, I don’t even know whether this will, it’s like I am going to be forever waiting for him to contact me out of the blue like he always has, what can I do? There is nothing that seems to stop him. He’s fucking with my life and I am letting him.
Hi Sandy,
You still sound totally caught up in him. You let him stay over with you Friday night but call him asshole; and you’ve threatened a restraining order but let him stay over after that?
No wonder he doesn’t take you seriously.
Read: ode-for-every-woman-who-has-loved-lost-and-forgotten-her-value/
You need to take a big step back from this guy and stick by your decisions. You only stop wondering if he will call after deleting his number from your phone, blocking him on all social media, so that you wouldn’t know even if he did try to talk to you.
Yes you are right Magnolia I am still caught up in him, he knows I am all hot air that I will give in easily, I don’t know what to say really, I don’t know why I cannot be strong with him, it’s like I lose all reasoning, that I think this time it will be different…and it’s never going to be is it.
Sandy,
You keep giving in because no matter what he has done and the fact that there’s another woman don’t matter. You still want and you ultimately believe you will have him one day. Yet you say you hate him. That’s just frustration talking. You “hate” him because you’re not getting your way – only temporarily. Sandy, you need to work on YOU. Try to stop obsessing about him and think about YOURself. Could you lead a more contented, self satisfied, less frenzied life if he were totally out of it? I think the answer is “Yes”. My therapist tells me to use mirroring which I never do. Step outside of yourself, pretend you are advising someone else what to do, what would you tell that person. Wouldn’t you tell her to kick him to the curb? Think about it. Start over with NC and be serious about it. Don’t block him half-assedly and still leave him an opening. Block him from your land line also. If that’s not possible, change your phone number. Don’t assign him any responsibility for leaving you alone because it ain’t gonna happen. He knows you’ll succumb to his persuasive words. BLOCK YOURSELF from hearing them. It’s the only way to move on. It’s in your hands. YOU have to do it.
Tink,
I have been leading a more contented and self satisfied life, I think I keep on wondering “why” about myself, I know I so much happier without him, I know people see the difference in me lately, I am smiling and laughing more so why, why did I go there again?
I do wonder whether it’s because I want to win but win what? What would I be winning? A man who treats me with no thought or consideration, who found somebody else when I was struggling to save our relationship but he had already picked the next lucky lady (sarcasm there).
I know all this, I am usually a logical lady and if I was giving advice to somebody else I would say run as fast as you can…it’s me I can’t understand at the moment.
Natalie,
So much of your teachings mirror truths in the art world: You make art for you and you alone always keeping expectations in check, get heavy on the self soothing and learn to treat constructive criticism as you very best friend aside from yourself.
I wouldn’t have made it two days doing for several months what I’ve been doing without your help and BR.
Thank you. Again. So very, very much.
Oh, Sandy. It hurts doesn’t it. We want SO BADLY for our fantasy to come true. We can’t believe that it won’t happen the way we want…we want it so fervently that it MUST be real. AC feels something…deep inside…we KNOW it! He CALLS us and we KNOW that means he really has SOME love for us…we’ll take it! But all they have for us is sex.
It is never going to be what you want it to be. Never. NEVER. NEVER!
We have to face the disappointment.
We have to accept the disappointment that comes with realizing AC will never be THE ONE.
Forget what he said and what he promised and what he’s going through and whatever magic combination he came up with that got you to drop your pants again For him, it was all about getting you to drop your pants again. And you did it.
That’s all he wanted. But it is not all YOU wanted.
I’ve written some things here lately about being OK with booty calls and just this week I have begun to think that I am full of $hit. I’ve settled for booty calls out of fear. Fear that what I really want does not exist. But how about if it DOES exist??? Am I gonna find it messin around with an AC? Or in my case someone else’s AC??? And your case too. Am I gonna find it by NEVER making a choice? C’mon AC, I’ll take any garbage you throw. And never say out loud to myself or to you that “This is unacceptable. It is NOT what I want.”
When I read the first of your last 3 entries I said “Oh, she speaking with a false bravado here.” Not surprised that by your second entry, you were close to crying. In the third, you’re angry.
I don’t know how to talk someone out of angry. I have been that angry with an AC……. For me, when I started thinking about doing irrational things, to HIM, totally out of my character, I knew it was time to GET OUT. Time for me to drop him and not look back. And I did. For 13 years. Every now and then over those 13 years I thought of him and would say ruefully “god…if I go there again I should just shoot myself”.
Three years ago I resumed with that AC…..and here I am on BR. Nuff said?
This time it is not quite as nightmarish, as last time was my first “involved” AC experience, but it is still painful, empty, tear-filled for me. Lazy contact, long breaks in between, never really moving any closer emotionally, not really a relationship in ANY way. Yet I fool myself into thinking it is.
AC once said to me that “I was fooling myself” and that “I was afraid to get close”. What can keep us hooked on ACs is that they do have some insight into what makes us who we are, and for us, we cling to the moments when they seemed to care.
But you are NEVER going to be an important part of his life. Why are you letting AC be an important part of YOUR life? That is where you need to focus your energies…answering THAT question.
Elgie, it hurts a lot, but what hurts the most is I keep on putting myself through it, false bravado is the only way I am able to cope, I am hoping it will become fact. I was doing so well, changed my mobile phone number so he couldn’t contact me every 2nd week, had just started going out and not thinking about him every second, and now this and I only have myself to blame, no one else.
I listen to his words and I believe every single one of them even though I should know better…I read all the BR posts and feel positive but then I just caved on hearing his voice again, Magnolia is right I am still invested but how do I become that strong woman again?
He told me that I am the one scared of commitment because I keep on changing my mind, maybe he is right but all I know is I don’t want the relationship he gives me so why then do I keep on going back and trying to make it be the right one.
Natalie is right I am rinse, lathering and repeating but I don’t know how to stop doing that and I am worn out with over thinking it all the time
Hi Sandy, I feel for you cos I feel at the same spot. One thing I have decided to do is not try to change how I feel, he did bad things and I didn’t like it so why would I give any time at all to such a person. Even seeing his face puts me in a bad mood sometimes…I think how can he be such a despicable person. I have felt I feel much better without any of his presence at all. I try really hard not to think why? I just think he did all these things & did not feel remorse so that shows me what type of person he is and therefore is simply not worthy of a spec of my time or thoughts. But it’s not easy. I’ve been keeping busy with work exercise & daughter. I feel angry & a bit gullible, but I also think even if I am gullible not everyone would take advantage of that, for example would you see someone’s naivety & seek to exploit that ? No. But some people would as its such a game to them. I decided that game is not fun anymore.
Genki,
I felt better too when he is not there, I am more angry at myself then him, he knows I have given in constantly so he just expects it now and I never disappoint him. I sure disappoint myself though, I don’t want to be gullible or let him exploit me but I do.
I used to wonder how women went back and now I know, I am one of them.
Even now while reading all of this I am wondering how can I make this right, there goes months of counselling, ah well at least I can laugh at that…I am not down and out yet.
My counsellor said it is as it is and I am holding tight to that thought.
My husband had a “fantasy relationship” (with a couple of real-time encounters) with a woman he met through work. She clearly wanted to change partners from the beginning, and not trusting herself to go slow, she made sure it was long distance for a long time. For her it was real. For him it was “fantasyland”. They both promoted the fantasy that it was all harmless, or that they could have their cake and eat it too, or that they could rearrange everyone else (including 2 spouses and 5 children) but no one would end up worse off in the end.
He sees now that it was a fantasy. That nothing he said to her he really meant, or else he’d have just gotten on with leaving instead of begging for forgiveness. But you know what? It doesn’t help the person in the real relationship that the affair was a fake and a sham and fantasy – that nothing he thought or felt about her was based on any substance, that she was not what she presented as and nor was he.
I’m sure it hurt her when her fantasy man cut of off one day permanently with no explanation. I feel absolutely no sympathy with her for that because the explanation (that he was married and she meant nothing) was kind of obvious. He just cut her off so there was no room for misunderstanding or wheedling.
But their fantasy hurt me most. I have never had a fantasy relationship, they’ve all been real, with the good and bad that comes with that. Consequently the insanity that comes with the fake high when you tell someone they’re the best person ever (what nonsense, no one is)….is never to be mine.
So long as your fantasy doesn’t involve hurting others, I say go for it. If you’re both single then enjoy it while it lasts and there is plenty of time to come to your sense and pick up the pieces later.
If he’s married then you deserve all the pain you can get and I can only hope you hurt half as much as his wife, you deserve to hurt so much more.
Eavie please don’t make it a competition about who hurts most. Most of us here are people who have made mistakes and we feel awful about ourselves for them but we hurt too. So much. I am sorry you have been through such an awful time and I know someone like me has taken part in destroying your world but please understand that everyone in this suffers
Ellie,
I don’t think Eavie is making it a competition about who hurts more. She’s just expressing her feelings as the wife who was wronged. We don’t get a lot of comments from the wives of husbands who cheated, describing how the felt/feel. So just like we support each other as the OW, we can break of a piece for the wife. My opinion, one who was an OW for 6 months and cut it loose.
Thank you for your input Eavie. It is hard to say what was going on in the OW’s mind, her being married also means she’s got a lot to answer for on her side. My situation with a MM was that he lied through his teeth to me. One of his lines was that they’d both agreed that the relationship was over a year previous, and that they were only together for a united front for her teenager who was due in court. The further lies were in the future faking and fast forwarding – oh yes, how naive. NOW, looking back, red flags were flapping hard, however, I had to go through the experience to come out the other side to understand what those red flags meant. Hindsight is 20/20, the experience was eye openning and big. Also, it helped me clear up some past stuff that lead me to be vulnerable to that situation in the first place. Yeah, I got hurt. But I don’t regret it. I learned loads. We all have bruises. That’s how we learn…I think it’s once we get the lesson, we can move on. Refuse to get the lesson, it will linger, and bitterness is not a way to live.
One thing death of the AC does for a person is remove all illusions & fantasy thinking there may be a future together one day if they just got their sh*t together. It’s my (pls excuse this tink) ex now deceased AC’s birthday in a day or two, & a bit over 18 mths now since he died. I’m still having emotional flashbacks. Mostly when I pass shops we shopped in together to buy him new clothes ect before things turned sour. I can’t avoid these shops. They’re everywhere all over my local shopping centre & I don’t have the $ or physical capacity to travel further away to shop. I recognise his birthday is probably triggering me also. There’s so much I could say on this topic but it’s all a moot point for me. He’s dead. Fullstop. Not coming back. Ever. Everything that was unresolved between us will now remain that way forever. I cannot raise the dead or turn back time. I have deeply conflicted emotions. Largely unprocessed & unexpressed. I’m still fighting for my survival financially. All of my attention is taken up tending to this & serious health issues. I’m not stable enough practically yet to fully process what happened. I believe my psyche is protecting me by holding back from this until I’m in a stronger position to cope. I can’t make a whole lot of sense of anything yet. I know only I’m confronting far deeper & bigger abuse issues than just what happened with the ex now deceased AC. Mount everest is still ahead for me in this regard. There is no illusion or escape from the pain atm. I just have to grin & bear it. It’s pushing me to a limit I did not know I could endure. I am deeply grateful for those who are supporting me through all this (a professional team). I don’t know where I’d be without them. Love to all & a special hug to Magnolia. x
I guess I’m trying to think I’m awesome & other boyfriends have thought that so why wouldn’t he? That makes me feel better… Seriously my husband is one of the only people I’ve spent time with who tries to avoid me, or maybe I’ve walked away earlier with others who avoided me. He’s one of the only people I seem to run around chasing to tell that they’ve hurt me & treated me badly. I’m thinking why would I do this? Why would I subject my self to such humiliation? But like Natalie has said it’s almost like I want to point out all the rubbish things he has done so that he realises…..but I know he already realises what he’s done he doesn’t need me to point it out! That’s why the only way I can avoid this drama is simply to avoid him. My 6 years if marriage wasn’t necessarily a fantasy it was more a hope…..that things would work out ok & he would see that life could be so much better if he didn’t avoid honesty & commitment. But he didn’t realise until too late, even tho he says he realises now I know he simply does not have a caring side to him. It’s so much better to avoid thinking of him at all.
Furry
Goals and dreams are good when your current life is sub optimal so long as the path to get there is realistic. As a very young woman, I yearned to bail out of myaabusive family, bail out of the racist lilly white suburb, and go north, to the woods. I started to teach myself skills such as gardening,home rrepair, painting, wiring rather than try to be socially accepted by my fellow racist teens. I did leave, at 17, the day after high school graduation, got a job, raised a 13 year old brother, worked my way thru college, earning two science degrees. It was hard, I often ate off of hospital trays so I could feed rapidly growing brother, but I got there. I am ashamed to say I own four houses. One houses my dad, two are vacant because it’s hard to find tenants that can live without all the modern power sucking crap we feel we need, the other houses me and a collection of critters. Yep, I grow tomaters, little ones here at 10,500′. Sometimes dissatisfaction is the impetus to move toward something else. Unlike some others, I don’t believe in embracing ones fate or current circumstance, as it leads to stagnation. You are not satisfied with your life for a reason, it is wrong for you. Live with the larger goal in mind. We only have one life and we shouldn’t waste any of it.
Mags
My fantasy is always the silver haired, uber fit, tall,educated, runner /or cyclist type like the dude I met this summer but WITHOUT the damned girlfriend. Reality, however, sucks in the man department but I really need to strive to shed that “nerdy old maid” image my colleagues and friends want to impose on me. Old maidism is fine when we are 80, not now. I say approach the dude, ask him to coffee. Yep, he may be boring, he may or may not like your body, he may have secrets (like a girlfriend); meeting new folks is not without risk. Yep, you have health issues but that doesn’t mean you should crawl into a hole. Maybe this dude will wind up a friend, like a very traumatized guy I met also this summer. It’s good to have someone to talk to, to have dinner with as opposed to having to go it alone most of the time.
Mags,
I agree, it’s good to have someone to talk to. It’s no fun being alone. But, you’ve fantasized about more than one guy. I just don’t think you should be concerning yourself with finding a man right now. Your health is more important. It takes time to build up anemia, even after a blood transfusion. I takes time to reap the benefits of a healthy diet to make you more physically robust. And, it certainly takes time to quit the J. You’re not doing yourself any good by escaping into that kind of “high”. When I had been very ill for 3 years I was on Prozac and eventually listened to a weirdo cousin and got Xanax. I was so numbed out I had 3 car accidents in 2011, alone. Now I’ve been off all of it for a year. Every now and then when I am extremely worried or depressed and I feel I need to numb out I’ll have a screwdriver (vodka with OJ). But that is seldom. I’m trying to let you know that I understand your using a J every now and then. But it doesn’t help you, and alcohol doesn’t help me. We’ve got to somehow gather the strength to face our issues unencumbered by drugs. Take care of yourself. Get healthy, first. The rest can come later.
I think that in my marriage there was a “deal with the devil” where I put my ex on a pedestal because he kept saying he was nice and doing things (many of which I now see as manipulative) like cleaning up while my gut was telling me he was unkind, not appreciative, not empathic and disrespectful. I had a lot of trouble with that dual image. A therapist once told me that I took the cleaning up because this was all I could/would get. I tried counselling to make this more meaningful but it didn’t work.
In my (limited) interactions with him I now see him as being a bully. I had the sudden awful realization yesterday that whenever he was cruel to me I had trouble accepting that anybody could DO this and because it was a mindfk mainly I always excused him. (he is “trying to me nice” – how screwed up is that?
Well NOT a new realization at all but I realized that I just simply could not accept that a person who kept telling me and others he was so nice would treat me so badly and without respect. He still does this..lately he has been plying my inbox and desk with documents to show that he has “kept his part of the bargain” These are indiscriminate and a way of him convincing himself that he is such a nice guy while overwhelming me with ridiculous work. He is simmering with rage but because “he doesns’t do anger” it comes out in his victim role. Boy he has that down pat.
Since I got home I have been struggling to keep him out of my thoughts and preoccupations but it still upsets me. Yesterday thinking of all this and seeing how damned difficult it was to see, understand and cope with him for so many years (some self compassion here) made me have to pull over to the side of the road and cry.
I just “watched” a new guy I met future fake himself into freaking himself out and then start being kind of nasty to me to get rid of me, in the space of 2 weeks. I went NC Friday and my newly found instinct tells me flush and don’t even look back, try to explain, justify, nothing. Just go. Since I was watching for it, it didn’t really hurt and was something to watch unfold. Thanks to Natalie and BR my eyes are open now instead of buying into the BS!!!
Sue, this is awesome! I won’t be dating again until I am able to do the same.
I am just over 5 weeks NC from the single and disgustingly repressive chauvinist EUM/AC and I’m feeling pretty damn good. The universe has tested my resolve a few times and I have had some run ins that were completely out of my control, but I’m holding steady. Today I heard a song and for a moment I had a weakness and thought of things and so then I came straight to BR to read and find my real footing again. It’s my reality check out of the fantasy land. Fantasy: he comes for me a changed man who feels remorse and sadness not having me in his life. Reality: He is working on probably dozens of women since me as he drinks heavily and I haven’t even crossed his mind. Not once.
He’s a cockroach with disgusting habits of treating “chicks” like disposable diapers.
Reality looks so much better now and it’s so much more peaceful.
Jule,
I have the EXACT SAME trigger, fantasy and reality as you. Once, it appeared the fantasy had finally come true, and I sucked it to see. AC/EUM devalued and discarded me in the most cruel way within two months. (Still took me a year after that to go completely NC. Now 13 weeks.)
I am glad you posted today as the last time you posted it seemed you were contemplating breaking NC. So glad you did not go there. Yay you!!
Alchoholism and womanizing… AC/EUM said all he needs is “Beer, bourbon and hot babes.” I was so deep into the fantasty that after hearing this I still thought I could eventually have the fairy tale ending. OMG
Actually, not as deep as he is into his own fantasy. I pity the fool AC/EUM who will never know true intimacy because it’s way too scary and simply easier to hide in a bottle and/or ever-changing babe.
Jule,
So happy for you. Keep on doing what you’re doing.
Eavie,
I can understand the pain on both sides. I can even understand you having a strong dislike for this ow.
What I’ve noticed…that gives me pause…. is that your description makes it sound like this wolf of a woman preyed on ur lil ole clueless/defenceless hubby. i hate to break it to you hon but chances are he’s not telling you the whole truth about he played in this (I swear i was just standing here minding my own business n this ow jumped me) bc he’s making sure he doesn try look as bad to you…. or perhaps you’re just choosing to absolve him of all blame. Honestly, I’m almost positive its easier to blame the OW than acknowledge the break in trust from the man you married. Have you considered that it didn’t quite go like the story you’ve been told? Yes, this woman was wrong for messing with a MM but HE WAS ALSO WRONG for breaking his promise to you from your wedding day.
I wish peace for you AND this OW. You BOTH deserve it.
I really needed to read this today. And some of the comments here from lovely, strong people.
This whole building boundaries and loving and taking care of me is totally new to me. I have cut myself out of the things that didnt serve me well (a very old ex, online dating that didnt work for me, casual sex)and have spent the past year+ looking after myself, spending time alone and enjoying every bit of myself.
But every now and then, on a week like this, the fears and insecurities creep in. “What if all this falls apart? Why is it taking so long for me to find love..is there something wrong with me?WHAT IF this, WHAT IF that…” and reading the comments here today reminded me of something I should tattoo on my forehead : Ive got your back, Lily.
Plain and simple. Im here for me. Putting aside the fact that my fears and insecurities are nothing more than feeling with no actual evidence or truth, how did I forget that even if ‘what if..this and that’ do come true, I’ll be there to take care of me. I’ll be there to protect myself from it and heal myself if required.
Thank you for being yourself and reminding me about this thru all your words 🙂 I can now stop swimming in this ocean of uncertainly and anxiety because youve reminded me that I CAN take care of myself, I am here for myself 24/7.
“I’ve got your back.” Simple and brillant. That would make a great t-shirt design!
Hi Nat,
Thank you so much for this, At some point,i thought i was abnormal with all the fantasies….Afraid to share it with anyone, least it turns out against me. Reading this has made me look at it from a different angle, and reality check is that all that i have been fantasizing about are issues that are there and what i would like to have but have always brushed them aside, with a feeling of i can’t get that. They are so real in my subconscious mind thus the fantasies, and now i realize that i need to make some changes in my life and make some decisions, and not give in to less than i deserve…Your article just made me come to life again. Thank you!thank you!thank you…
Ellie, it’s not possible for her to feel badly enough for her part in this. And I just don’t believe you. If she “felt bad” about what she did to me and encouraged him to do she would apologize on her knees, give back all the expensive gifts she asked him to buy and stay the hell out of our lives. But instead she posts a semi-public “gee I never meant to do that be I entrust him to you now” farewell…of all the patronizing schlock. And every month or two she finds an excuse to be in his inbox or turning up sobbing at his office about how he’s abandoned her, or sending her daughter to soften him up.
She isn’t sorry except for herself. She has no remorse. And her pain is entirely 100% self inflicted. Unlike mine. It’s not that she hurts less, it’s that she bears the blame for her hurt where I don’t. It’s called morality.
And drinking too much or one or two inappropriate conversations is a mistake. Seeking and maintaining a relationship with a married man and debating with him why he should leave his wife isn’t a mistake. It’s a bad woman.
Everyone suffers but everyone doesn’t deserve to. Only the ones who got themselves into it and meant to get away with it (she planned to get him to leave without my knowing about the affair so I couldn’t make trouble for her). To get away with my husband and children and leave me homeless and penniless just for kicks. She even said “well she doesn’t need money, she can live with her sister”!!
I guess my point is that a fantasy relationship with a married person is more than any OW deserves and the pain of losing him is way less than she deserves. Fantasy Schmantasy. Your fantasy is creating another woman’s nightmare so you really ought to be only hurting for her, only feeling guilt, unable to give any attention to the fact you lost him/dumped him because that’s kind of irrelevant.
2Fearce you’re right he doesn’t deserve any sympathy either, he’s not getting any. I do NOT take his account as true, I have the whole thing set out in black and white from each of them to the other during it. I know the worst of what both of them did that way. He’s going to have to make up for this forever if I let him try, this is not about that. I was addressing the issue of the OW because its her that would take the comfort from this post. His attitude is to be ashamed of himself and how he did such wrong things. Hers is to talk about her “fantasy relationship” and how wrong she was it wasn’t real. Big difference.
Now if I ever saw a piece about the OW where she spoke like my husband does about how she did such awful things and can’t understand why her character was so poor and how can she make up for it? I’d have some compassion for her. But they never say that.
Eavie
I’m not going to bother defending the OW but really she isn’t your problem. Focussing on the drama of what she does/says/feels is a distraction from the real issue, your husband.
Why would you want to be in a relationship with someone where he will be making it up
to you for the rest of his life? It sounds like purgatory, a gaoler/prisoner
situation. It sounds miserable for you both.
If you are treating someone like that, they are likely to rebel in passive aggressive ways.
And yet, you’re letting him off the hook too. He is better than her because he is
ashamed.
Did he only get ashamed when he was caught? If he thought he could do it again without being discovered, can you trust him not to do the same thing again?
Also I don’t think this post is intended to give comfort to any OW. It’s about living in reality and facing up to truth and real life. Not getting lost in fantasy and dreams of things you wish were true. The OW had a fantasy that your husband was available and loved her. He wasn’t and he didn’t. But you have had your dream of him, as a trustworthy man who loved you taken away too. How will a lifetime of retribution give you that back?
I should add, I agree it isn’t your fault, whereas she really did bring this down upon herself. I am not at all suggesting that you are the same, or that you shouldn’t be angry, you have every right to be furious.
Eavie, I know I am stepping into a bear trap because you are angry at every OW who ever existed, but here goes…
You are interpreting “fantasy” like it means a Cinderella-dream-come-true for the OW, but that is not what fantasy means here. The fantasy here is like a person who has been starving for weeks who is now sitting before an empty plate and pretending there is food on it. It is not satisfying. It is not sweetness and light and passion and happiness.
You are having a fantasy relationship with your husband. You are ready to hang the OW as if she is the only one that he has done this with and it is all her fault.
This site is about helping OW, single woman, married woman, who are sitting down to plates with no food on them.
If you want to express anger only, and not do the work that says “How did I get here” there are plenty of web sites that do nothing but express venom towards OW. This is not one of those sites. But this is a site where gaining emotional health is first and foremost, and you are welcome to join all of us in that journey.
But go on, let us have it, knock yourself out.
Jewells most MM tell their mistress something like that. He told her we were living in sepaeate rooms (given she knew the number of bedrooms and kods this must have seemed impossible but she heard what she wanted to hear). She told him she was fending off her husband to be faithful to her MM. Both were lying, it goes with the territory.
The thing is- the OW knows he’s married. It’s all she needs to know. If he won’t introduce her to his wife or let her speak to his wife on the phone or email her, why not? He’s lying to his wife. What does that say? He’s a liar and a cheat and has to be in order to be with the ow. So why does she want him?
Once someone would have had to be a cheat for me to have him. I previously wanted him but found that so disgusting it turned me right off (and I exposed him to her as well).
So no amount of “but he lied, but he future faked” cuts it. It’s not naive. It’s wanting a man to lie and cheat as long as you come out on top. At the time. Of course put your head in the sand that you’ll come to a sticky end.:
Underneath it all these men aren’t lying to you. They’re showing you exactly what they are. There’s no reading between the lines it’s up in lights. You wanted a man to cheat on someone for you. It’s that simple. And that doesn’t say anything good about either party in the affair does it?
A wife when she reconciles may if she’s lucky prove it was an aberration. But the mistress never can. Because living in the lie and being rewarded for it isn’t ever an aberration. It’s his character.
Hi Eavie,
I don’t think that’s fair. I was naive, I’d never been in that situation before. I believed the lies, yes, not because I wanted someone to cheat on someone for me, but because I loved the attention and the ‘love’ he ‘gave’ me, and the lies were made palatable. I thought it was real at the time, and now that I’ve been back in contact with him – work, he seems to believe it was real too – still pathological, but I see that now. When I realized the lie – I exposed him also, it just took a few months. The whole fiasco lasted only 3 months from meeting to No contact, but there was a lifetime of lessons gained. I’m not using the future faking and lying as excuses, they did however obfuscate the truth, it just took me a while to get under it to discover the truth under that crap. Some take longer than others. Since then, I see ‘unavailables’ – married or not from a mile away, and funny thing is – they have absolutely no interest in me either anymore. I think they can also see from a mile off whether someone is ‘available’ to their con or not…
I’ve had this problem for about half a year now! It seems like it’s common for the Modern Woman to have this condition when she gets lonely and her mind wanders. My EUM was a future faker, made lots of vague promises and then did the classic BAIT AND SWITCH on my arrse before trying to throw me back in the water (so to speak). I was hooked and became the puruer, feeling humiliated and a grand sense of buyer’s remorse for this now unwilling man that I didn’t even like or want to begin with!
It comes to a point where something snaps inside (like my mental health!)
I realised he was another EUM in my long and arduous history of falling for EUM’s.
It kills me inside to think of how callous his face is when he dismisses me now compared to the “you are my universe” looks i got at the start of our non-existant relationship.
He’s been stalking me (literally) and cyberstalking to keep a huge foothold in my life but i’m booting him out now!
Does’nt help the fact that he is, in a manner of speaking, my boss and I am now having to face quitting the perfect job. It is perfect except for one tiny thing, the heartache and turmoil I have to go through every single day. Seeing his face is enough to send me off crying in the bathroom and regretting my existance.
Now I lose both my current psychological love affair (who spits in my face with misogyny) and the DREAM JOB I always wanted.
To all you other EUM-Lovers. Know you are not alone. These men are insipid, evil, misogynistic and cunning in their ploys to make women fall in love just so that they can pull the rug out from underneath our feet. It is disgusting. Our only hope is to keep cutting the ties, keep moving on and healing. We will become stronger while these rats just get weaker and more pathetic and bitter in their cunning ways. We will survive!