Recently, I’ve had quite a few people expressing their concern about ‘immaturity’:
“I’m trying to remain on good terms with them. If I stop being friends, I’ll look like I’m being really immature and that I’m throwing all of my toys out of the pram.” So you’re going to force a friendship while you internally writhe in breakup agony?
“Isn’t defriending on Facebook / unfollowing them on Twitter really immature?” – Note that Facebook and Twitter are just websites, not God’s. These facilities exist to give you control over who you are connected with and to also reflect the severance of a relationship. In olden times, would you sit outside their house watching their life unfold? Er, no.
“I hoped that my obvious discomfort would put him off as I didn’t want to sound immature by saying something” – She also worried about being rude, rejecting him, and then making things awkward, and so ended up having sex on the first date. She’s 45 and was on her first date after a divorce.
“It’s very, very immature to expect someone to be honest about their situation – this is not how relationships work. For a start, me telling her from the outset that this wasn’t a relationship and reminding her practically every two weeks, should have been more than enough……We’re both adults – I didn’t need to tell her about the other girl! Don’t be ridiculous!” – He also added that it would have been ‘mean’ to be honest.
“I don’t want to look silly” – This is the line of defence for everything from not declining threesomes that one doesn’t want to do, to why someone doesn’t want to express their unhappiness at being punched in the face.
When you’re accused of being immature about something, while of course it might be a genuine case of being under emotionally or intellectually developed, or not acting your age, most of the time, they’re effing you over in the name of being ‘grownups’ and then claiming you’re unschooled in the nuances of adult relationships.
It’s like “Just be a man / woman about it!” Er, what? What you don’t realise is that someone who would sell you down the river if it meant serving their own needs, is actually claiming to have the high ground on you and implying that you should listen up and take note from someone ‘in the know’.
Next thing, you’re supposed to leap up and take part in a three-way with a gimp suit or head into their whipping chamber without a backward glance in the name of being ‘grown up’ about things.
And let’s be real – isn’t this whole covert, and actually sometimes quite aggressive attacking of one’s ‘maturity’, how many women in particular, find themselves knee deep in sexual and other dangerous situations out of fear of saying NO and being far too worried about how they’re perceived? Hell, it’s how some women end up being put on the game by their so-called ‘loving’ ‘partners’ in the name of helping them out of a sticky patch.
When you think you’re being ‘immature’ or even ‘frigid’ for not wanting to go along with something, it’s actually a sign that you’re engaging with someone in conflict with your values and you’re doubting and basically not listening to yourself, because you’re too busy trying to hold onto or gain their approval.
Being accused of being immature, takes most of us back to being teenagers and that in itself may be more than enough to send us down the path of pleasing others so that we can avoid resurrecting old rejection wounds. Let us also not forget the fear of the conflict and criticism that may arise off the back of it.
As a teenager, when I didn’t cave to pressure, it was out of fear of the consequences, often because some of them were known (such as the perils of taking E) and I’d rather risk social consequences than try it. Sometimes it was my own discomfort and what I didn’t know was my own developing values speaking up.
It didn’t matter why someone thought I should be or do something – what mattered was why I didn’t want to. Of course over the years, I said YES most of the time, because my own opinion stopped mattering to me.
How much does your own opinion matter to you?
When I’ve caved to pressure, it’s because of a perceived reward, or fear of consequences including change in how I’m perceived, rejection, or conflict. Sometimes it was naivety (or believing I was naive) and sometimes it was fear of being hypersensitive.
The truth is, it’s not immature to not want to text all the time and to not want to believe that someone who you don’t see very much or who keeps themselves at an emotional, communicative, and physical distance, is going to be a prospect for a full-on relationship. Is it really going to go from that to, for example, moving in?
It’s not immature to not want to go to a sex club (especially with a complete stranger or someone who has previously mistreated you), nor is it immature to not want to sleep with their friends, or go swinging, or just not want to have sex. IT IS YOUR RIGHT!
It’s not immature to expect honesty. Anyone would think you were asking them to diarrhoea (yes that’s what I said) their thoughts and give you the code and the key to their mind. Honesty in relationships is about not lying to and deceiving someone about the true nature of the relationship, your intentions, or any facts that would not only alter existing information held by the other party, but would remove the needed mutual love, care, trust, and respect required for a healthy relationship.
It’s also not immature to not want to be friends straight after a breakup – it’s normal. It doesn’t mean you’re enemies (unless you actually are) but surely someone can’t expect to literally climb off you and the relationship and for you to just switch over to friendship mode? It’s like “We’ve just broken up! Would you mind giving me a chance to pull my pants up and give me some breathing and literal space so I can come to terms with what’s happened? Jeez!”
Calling someone immature for being unwilling to play along with doing or being something that they don’t want to, is passive aggressive and at times outright bullying. Even worse, it is a sign of emotional immaturity on the part of the offender, that they are unable to empathise with your position and respect it, even if they don’t agree with it and it signals a parting of the ways.
Regarding yourself as immature for not being able to work up the appetite to screw yourself over, or for not being OK after the fact of screwing yourself over, is disrespecting yourself. You’re implying that having boundaries, having choices, and saying NO (irrespective of whether it makes sense to or suits the other party), whether it’s because it’s your preference or because you’re exercising your human right, is immature. Why agree with someone’s shadiness?
Is saying NO and having boundaries such a terrible thing?
This isn’t high school. You’re a grownup now and you don’t have to be or do anything that you don’t want to. It would also be a damn sight easier if instead of trying to force yourself to have someone’s values, or trying to convince them to change theirs, that you honoured your own values and found like-minded people who don’t trivialise your well-being, and who respect where you’re coming from. Maturity isn’t about doing what other people tell you but about being yourself and living your own life with authenticity and integrity.
Your thoughts?
About the Author:
Natalie Lue is the founder and writer of Baggage Reclaim and author of the books Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship and more. Learn more about her here and you can also follow her on Facebook and Twitter - @baggagereclaim .
Natalie (NML) – who has written 1083 posts on Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue.
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Natasha,
This line:
“Don’t want to go out with the guy I want to set you up with?! Batten down the hatches.”
Perfectly describes a situation I am dealing with in my life right now. I have a frenemy who has *always* been difficult and high maintenance, but has become quite impossible since her marriage. She has married a nice, kind, sweet, wealthy man who treats her like the Queen of Sheba at home. Recently, she tried to set me up with a friend of ours who’s somewhat down on his luck. Actually, he would be homeless if he wasn’t living in her home! He is not all that good looking and not very nice, either. He has real Jekyll and Hyde tendencies and became verbally abusive to me on our first “date.” Both the guy in question and my “friend” tried to tell me I was being immature for taking offense at his blatantly cruel remarks and actually having the gall to stick up for myself. Luckily, I shut that down cold, but she has made a show of ignoring me and freezing me out since I declined his “advances.” i have had to go NC on all three of them at this point. (This is easier than it might be because we live in different states.) Personally, I think this “friend” just doesn’t want anyone to out-do her in the romance department: she has been publicly critical of my sweet college boyfriend and recently tried to talk me out of two sweet guys: one a gorgeous, college-educated football player and the other, an equally good-looking widower with a steady job, a military contract, and a palatial home who’s actually been treating me right (although we’re not actually in a relationship yet, just the initial flirting stages) and displaying an appropriate level of interest in me despite his emotional baggage. i’m realizing this friendship has always been toxic and that this woman does not have my best interests at heart. I’ve made allowances for her in the past because she can be very sweet and generous at times and is critically insecure about her weight, but she has pulled stunts like this before. She once blatantly tried to steal a boyfriend from a mutual friend of ours and then tried to pass her behavior off as “harmless” flirting (when everyone within 100 miles of the situation could see that it was anything but). I’m in the process of slowly trying to extricate myself from this friendship, which is painful because we’ve been…
… I’m in the process of slowly trying to extricate myself from this friendship, which is painful because we’ve been friends for so many years (I even officiated at her wedding) but at this point, I am tired of putting up with her crap. I’m not being immature; her behavior is totally out of line and this is one relationship in my life that has to go. Time to push my mental flush handle, as Natalie would say!
My partner loved going to Sexpo. I agreed to go along, though I figured I’d be bored, as hey sometimes you do the boring things to make them happy if it doesn’t cost you much, and I’m pretty liberally minded with sex.
Then I got the flu and was laid up in bed. He still wanted to go, on his own. I was uncomfortable with that. Playing as a couple, where I have the right to veto anything I’m uncomfortable with is fine. Not having that opportunity is not fine.
I’d never been to Sexpo, and when I googled the program guide I was shocked. It wasn’t like any expo I’d experienced, where people stood around in little stalls and handed out business cards to the punters. You could get a lapdance, play strip poker, watch live shows from porn stars. Whoa!
We fought over it, and I ended the relationship (it was the last of many straws). Here’s where I got gobsmacked: I had a few mates…all women…who sneered at me for my decision. I got things like “I thought you were cool?”, and “I guess you’re not the cool girl after all”.
What the WHAT???!!!
It stung for a moment, mostly cos I was taken by surprise…till I remembered, I’m 39. NEARLY FORTY! I left high school a looonnng time ago. I just could NOT believe that the word ‘cool’ was even in our middle-aged vocabulary. I cut them out as well. I don’t need that kind of silliness in my life.
Besides, everyone knows that nowdays geeks are, like, the new cool
My ex was/is super skilled at making me feel old-fashioned, possessive and non-progressive because I didn’t like it that he continually talked to me about other women he found attractive. This began right in the beginning of our being together and I told him I didn’t like it but 2 and a half years later he was still doing it, under the guise of being ‘honest’. He’d never forget to tell me if a girl came on to him, sometimes saying he was tempted or he wished he was single, she looked beautiful, he liked her etc. More than once saying ‘why don’t you look at me like that?’ or ‘I really wonder if you love me as much as she does’ (when a serial relationship attacker came on to him with all guns blazing, and professing her ‘love’). But if I complained about it he’d make me out to be possessive and unreasonable, and he really made start to believe it too. To him, he was this progressive type who recognised that all men are looking and liking all the time and at least he was honest about it. His repeated assertion of this point still warps my view of men and makes me dread having a relationship again. I still waver between thinking he was just doing it to torture me and to make me jealous and insecure on one hand; and on the other, thinking that I am just too possessive and jealous and insecure and I should have let him have more freedom. Sick how they warp your mind and make you doubt your own judgement. All I know is if I was making him sad repeatedly, stopping him being sad would be more important to me than my ‘right’ to be honest at all times. I mean why doesn’t he tell that kind of thing to his guy friends and leave me out of it? What did he expect me to say? Oh that’s great. Yeah she is really beautiful, I’m glad you are attracted to her. Really what did he expect?
After a while I thought I’d let him see what it was like and piped up when I saw a hot guy in a movie or something (not in real life, unless he asked me). When he asked if I found any of his friends good looking I was honest and rubbed it in a bit, telling him which ones were hot and seeing how he liked it. I guess this was juvenile behaviour. But then when it came to me complaining again about his non-stop reports of the availability and interest of other sexually attractive women in his vicinity, he brought up that I did it too and thus I was being…
Part 2.. thus I was being hypocritical. Ughh. A horrible mess.
I went no contact with him two weeks ago and was doing really well until yesterday. I’d written to a friend who asked how things were going with us, and told her the whole situation about how I’d decided to break it off for good and go no contact, and that I’d been saddened to find out he’d been sleeping with a friend of ours since I left him (and then somehow I became his casual lover?!) I really don’t understand why she wrote back what she wrote, because I would never in a million years think it was helpful to say to a friend that was grieving. She said yeah it must be so hard for you, knowing that they are doing all those nice romantic things that you guys used to do, now together; that she makes him happy, and that he was in love with her (I didn’t know any of those things actually, thanks for giving my hyperactive imagination some tidbits to torture me with first thing in the morning when I wake up :’( She said I guess it tells you that he was over you already, because he felt so strongly for her. Seriously what the fuck?! Who says these things?! The weirdest thing is until now she has seemed a really very sweet girl and we have a growing new friendship. Someone please tell me why she would think it was helpful to say such knife twisting things?!
Now I’m back in adrenaline, sick feeling, doom and dread pervading my reality, not being able to get it out of my head “he was in love with her” and wondering how he could be so into her when he was totally emotionally unavailable to me, and even told me he wasn’t sure if he ‘fell in love’ with me (he said he did love me though). What a horrible web I am in. One thing that’s made me feel better is seeing how many other talented and valuable women have been sucked into these traps of torment, of being addicted to someone who won’t stop dishing out pain. Sorry for my rant but it’s been rumbling round my head for weeks and I feel you people are some of the few that could ever really understand!! Yours in solidarity. We can do better than this.
Wren,
“…that she makes him happy, and that he was in love with her (I didn’t know any of those things…”
Your “friend” doesn’t know any of these things either!! Your clueless ex b/f had not one clue about what he felt or what was making him happy so how the hell can this woman know. She knows eff all about this guy and hid feelings, she just doesn’t know she knows eff all. Pay her no heed – none. Yes it is a cruel. Think about NC-ing her too! and the b/f doesn’t know his arse from his elbow – give him a very wide berth too. You’ve learned a useful lesson from this – if you don’t like the way a guy is treating you, don’t mirror it back to him, show him your own boundaries and values and drop him. There’s nothing more annoying than a boyfriend who keeps banging on about how attractive other women are – at best it’s disrespectful to you; it also makes you feel ‘less than’ and very insecure – ALL the time! Your first gut instinct was right. In future if something makes you feel uncomfortable knock it on the head right away, listen to yourself – not to mean know-all, know-nothing so called friends.
wren
drama and gossip.
You always knew what he was and are now being diverted from that by your outrage at his behaviour and now your outrage at your “friend”. Yes she’s insensitive but that doesn’t have to tip you over the edge.
“One thing that’s made me feel better is seeing how many other talented and valuable women have been sucked into these traps of torment, of being addicted to someone who won’t stop dishing out pain.”
We trapped ourselves. He can’t dish out pain if you’re not there accepting it. Until you recognise that you’ll be forever chasing What He Did To Me! There’s no satisfaction there. Refocus on why you perservered in the insanity and how you can avoid it in future.
Other people – him, your so-called friend, his new girlfriend, even other women in the same boat don’t have the answer. Don’t look there. You’re using those things to keep you mired in the helplessness.
For what it’s worth, it’s unlikely that the new relationship will work out.
And no, not all men comment on other women. My brothers don’t, my brother in law doesn’t, the men at work don’t, the men at church don’t, my friends’ husband’s don’t. Iv’e known men who do. Asshats the lot of them. They don’t change so quickly, if at all. And even if they do get a permanent girlfriend, it would be someone who allows them to be who they are. Who believes that’s what men do. Who’ll find herself in an insecure marriage. Who’ll be tormenting herself over every stretchmark and wrinkle because she has to compete with every other woman out there. He can fall in love with you, he can marry you, he can have children with you. He can do all of that without actually loving you.
Set your sights higher and stop believing that this torment, addiction, pain, gameplaying, high drama, anguish, fantasy and outrage is love. It’s not even close and it will be a very lovely day when you realise that.
Nuke him. Have nothing to do with him. Don’t listen to gossip about him either. You’ve got your own life to live. You can’t live his. It’s crap anyway.
He is not that special.
Yes you can do better. DO better. Don’t wait for it to come to you while you carry on as usual. Make it happen.
Thank you so much Grace and Fearless. I know you’re right, my “friend” hardly knows the situation so she’s just making up some crap probably for her own reasons. And those reasons shouldn’t mean that I have to go into a tailspin. Also, perhaps it’s the wrong train of thought to be going down but I think to myself, if he really was in love with her then why did he stop seeing her (all unbeknownst to me) when I came back in to the picture? Surely if he was in love he’d have just told me he’d moved on and kept it going with her.
But all that is by the by. I’m refreshed to hear your assertion that not all men feel this need to comment all the time. Surely I knew that all along! But a part of me felt naive for expecting otherwise. I did know from the beginning that something was amiss, and I am probably distracting myself from the important process of letting go by being embroiled in more drama. It’s so hard to accept that I am choosing this drama and pain though when it feels like all I do is try to avoid pain. I guess I avoided the right kind of pain (kicking his ass to the curb) and put up with the wrong kind of pain (a slow death, 2.5 years of an unfulfilling and frankly painful ‘love’ relationship).
I do want to move on but I also have this feeling that if I don’t vent on and examine what’s happened that the experience will fester inside me and I won’t have fully let it out and let it go. But then I can see quite clearly it can become an addiction of its own, focusing on ‘what he did’ and how that made me feel, instead of going out and building the life I’ve been craving all along.
I have gained some incredibly important insights through this process. Especially about my need for external validation and the kind of situations that I end up in because of it. I think this experience with the “friend” was also a great lesson, painful and unwelcome as it was. I’ve realised that I look to others to say the right thing to make me feel better, when I really should be looking to myself (99% of the time I know what I want to hear, and that shows that I already know what the answer is). And the friends and people I look to to say the right thing to make me feel better a) have their own motivations, off-kilter views and subjective viewpoints and b) often don’t know the situation well enough or know what it is that I want to hear validated. Confusing, but it makes sense to me at least.
Thanks so much for reading and for your kind, honest replies. To echo what everyone else has said, this site is Literally A God Send.
Hi ladies,
I am hoping to get some advice.
My ex ended our 15 month relationship last fall. He had a former gf waiting in the wings. The first few months I tried ignoring his contact the best I could. I had never experienced a break up where the guy continued to contact me and it left me utterly confused. In January, I wrote a letter that was very clear, and I asked him not to contact me unless it was for the specific purpose of putting our relationship back on track. That worked until he sent an email in May to wish me a happy birthday and some other drivel. I sent a short thanks, hope all is well. A few weeks ago I got another email, which I ignored. He followed that up with another one a week later. I ignored that too. Now he is texting asking if I got the emails. I didn’t respond. Tonight he sent another text going on about how he was hurt that I didn’t want to be friends. At this point I am angry because he has not once recognized or even acknowledged that he hurt ME! The content in the emails are all about him and his needs and desires. He is also showing no respect by disregarding my request for NC.
Should I continue to ignore? or send a response making it clear that I don’t want anymore contact? I went against my better judgement when I thanked him for the birthday wishes, even though I waited a few days and kept it brief, I can see that was a mistake.
I really would like to just tell him off and give him all the reasons he isn’t a friend. I am pissed that he has the nerve to tell me he is “hurt”….what an assh@!&!
kerber
Ignore, ignore, ignore. When I’ve NC’d I’ve not told them why or that I was about to do it. They know why. And if they’re stupid enough not to know why, my explanation will hardly edify them.
If you must say something, keep it short and simple:
“Stop contacting me. I’m not interested.” Then ignore, ignore, ignore.
Don’t tell him off, don’t tell him you’re hurt. He doesn’t deserve to know what you think and feel. He can bog off.
Believe me, your dignified ,crushing silence says a lot more than the blah blah blah that they hear when you start explaining yourself.
Thanks Grace. I wish I would have seen your post last night, I really wanted to continue the ignore option. The problem with this guy is that the ignoring escalates his contact, as it did last night after I wrote my post. He called me at 1:30, I ignored, then he sent some texts, I ignored, he called again and I answered because I was so annoyed that he was violating my boundaries. In one way it felt good to tell him that I think he is an asshole and all the reasons I don’t consider him a friend. He still didn’t get it. I’ve never seen someone who was so hell bent on being friends with a person who thinks they are an asshole. He must be feeling guilty and is looking for validation that he is an okay guy. We went over and over why I didn’t want to be friends and he continued to rationalize everything I said. I asked him if he was dating someone and he said he was. I told him that I had a problem with that and he thought it was perfectly fine. I wonder how his GF would feel if she knew he was calling me so late at night to convince me that we should be friends? And I am sure she has no clue that in December he was at my house making sexual advances.
I think he got the message last night, hopefully I will never hear from him again. I’m going to see if I can get his number blocked today. I didn’t sleep at all last night because of his shady BS. It is so clear to me from the way he broke it off to all his behavior afterwards that we have different values, and it would never have worked out. I am glad it’s over because I know I dogged a bullet.
Thank you Natalie for sharing your insights on this blog. I discovered your website back in December and it has been a tremendous help and support for me. I was finally over this guy in May and hadn’t thought about him for weeks. Since my ex enter the scene again I feel like I’ve had a setback, but I am hopeful it will be short lived. Best wishes to you.
Thank you for sharing your experience kerber and thanks for the good advice, grace. My birthday is coming up and I know there’s a good chance I’ll be hearing from the AC.
I thought it might be worth sharing that my ex did text me an apology for hurting me. I know it’s only a text but considering the person and situation, it’s something that has some meaning for me. It doesn’t excuse any of his behavior, but at least he is human enough to express some form of remorse.
It’s easy to want to demonize someone when they have hurt us. There is no excuse for the bad behavior, however, I have found it helpful to have a greater understanding that many people operate and make choices based on fear. Sometimes that fear is so overwhelming, it drives people to make decisions that end up hurting themselves as well as other people. The fear is real and is hardwired in the brain. I know my ex lets his fears control his life. It’s really sad because he is capable of being a person of great character. Once my initial anger (which is also fear based) dies down I’ll end up feeling pity for him.
FX
I’d stick with NC. If he is ever truly remorseful he will be motivated to make things right. He would have to “earn” his way back into your life. In my situation NC worked, I was able to heal and learn and move on, which is what NC is really about. Good luck to you and Happy Birthday!
omg — the pic of the goats is one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen — just cried from laughing!!! so great.
One has just tried to hang something like this one on me.
He’s been blowing hot and cold for ages, there is always some excuse as to why he disappears and if none is available then he will just do so then return with an apology for being a d***.
Anyhow, this Saturday he was back with all the usual speel, even sending poetry. Sunday I text him – no reply – although he managed to find long enough to faff about on facebook and update his profile pic. He’s had it facebook deactivated for some time and had told me he’s not on there. This also happens periodically and yes I have a very good idea why that might be. If asked tentatively about (and quite a few other things) that he will say I am reading too much into it = something wrong with me.
Anyhow, I called him on not replying so now I have “issues” = something wrong with me. Told him the only issue I have is with his constant walking in and out and that it’s his lack of common courtesy that’s the problem since he expects a reply if he texts me. I guess he was expecting an apology or a drama but he’s had neither, he got a shock instead. I ended that text with the comment that I am not up for an argument or fall out and that as far as I am concerned we should leave it there. I was feeling rotten, I nearly did apologise. But I am so glad that I didn’t – it’s true I have to face facts if I don’t stand up for myself he will keep doing it.
I certainly am not kicking myself now since about two hours later an old friend (okay yes I admit a very good looking and nice male friend) of mine invited me to what promises to be a lovely day out which I couldn’t have said yes two hours earlier. I’m not going to jump straight into another relationship (mind you I am not entirely sure I have been in one anyway?), but I am made up. Result and goodbye assclown!
I am posting this to explain a bit more about why I shut him out for ignoring my texts for one day and so I can read this back next time he thinks to walk back in – which will be in a month or two – when the next victim sees through him. I want to remind myself not to fall for his false charm, remind myself that he thinks my having boundaries regarding decent behaviour is me having “issues”:
I trusted him, I believed the things he said – he lied and didn’t deliver.
He told me he’d been single for two years – then said he was living with his “ex” for the kids and hadn’t told me because he didn’t want to put me off. I was understanding when he said he was sorting his life out and leaving her because he said she was abusive toward him and had cheated on him. So I waited, he disappeared only calling now and again to make arrangements to meet but stood me up time and again. I was still understanding because his excuses seemed genuine. I was fooling myself. All in all, after 2 months of heady romance he had just stopped seeing me. During the next three months he saw me once and that was only because he didn’t know I was turning up. I spent those three months in absolute confusion, tears, wondering what I’d done wrong, a couple of occasions even too upset to go to work.
But it got easier, I kept NC and got on with my life, even managed to get over it enough to have another short relationship which had a mutually friendly end. Only then he turns up again – saying he had only disappeared for TWO weeks when he was leaving his ex and I had cheated on him, that I should have made sure we were over first. How the hell was I supposed to think we were still together, it was over three months since he’d seen me? (incidentally I think he’s either perpetually going back to her or not actually leaving at all). It was oddly convenient too since I’d just discovered (or should I say another woman had shown me and not in a very nice way) that he had been going out with her. I was mad at her for the way she did it, but the best thing to do was nothing because I knew he’d do exactly the same to her and he did. He’d turned up saying the same thing on her FB page as he’s said to me “sorry for being a d***”, she was an ex of his and had just broken up with someone else. He had told me that he’d only gone to her because he needed someone to talk to (ie, poor me she cheated – funny that sounds familiar).
Next thing he reappears a few more months down the line with “I tried with her but she didn’t match up to you”. Incidentally, the girl he’s just dated (and disappeared on) removes him the very second he re-adds me. I am wary. At the same time he’s trolling his facebook harem and asking out every woman who’s just changed her relationship status to single – what I now realise was hunting for vulnerable prey (he either does not know or care that I can see this or does not think it’s disrespectful). Telling me he misses me, wants me back and what we had was special all the while. Hmmmm. Called him on what he was up to on FB, including his obvious online dating and guess what….he’s sorry for being a ****. Modified his behaviour slightly, but the disappearing still carried on.
Anyhow, over the course of three years he’s been messing me about. I fooled myself for a long time. I fooled myself into believing he meant it every time he said he missed me and wanted to try again, when really he was just coming back to find out that I still wanted him = ego stroke, because every time I weakened to him – piff paff poof and gone again.
This time he’s back and I tell him clearly that the disappearing act is not acceptable, he says he leads a complicated life (aka not going to change), I tell him I can not choose that and try to go NC. Then his persuit becomes relentless, he apologises, texts regularly, doesn’t stand me up, acknowledges what he did was wrong. I make the mistake of thinking he’s changed and boom there he is back in my life again and I find myself trusting him. Mother of all mistakes. Yet again he assumes that because I had been understanding of what he said were his problems he can walk in and out, not text for days/weeks and I am back in a situation that I really don’t like. The relationship is all on his terms. Only now I’ve got real, I did have boundaries but feeling sorry for him and his problems I ignored them. Never again. This weekend I finally decided enough was enough. Sunday was my late father’s birthday and he knew it would be a difficult day for me. I text him to ask how HE’s doing and he ignores me. This time he has no excuse since he was too busy changing his profile pic on facebook and most likely getting his ego stroke from other women to bother texting back (yet that is what he expects when he texts me). He’s run out of excuses so the only form of defence is attack. I don’t have boundaries, I have “issues”.
I had thought I was stupid for being fooled by him, but not now that I can see him for exactly what he is thanks to a lot of what is written on this site and from comments have realised I am not alone, neither am I bonkers. I feel disappointed and cheated and I am going to allow myself that for a while because I need to be angry with him to remember what an AC he is. But, I also feel liberated, safe in the knowledge that I have been grieving for somebody that doesn’t exist. I was grieving for the man who brought me a rose on the first date, not this self confessed d*** who calls my boundaries “issues”. I can’t want a man who doesn’t exist and therefore there is nothing to grieve, only an experience to learn from and one which I will never repeat. I have been lucky enough not to have come across a man like this before and this one has taught me every trick in the book. I won’t be suckered in again.
Just caught your posts Jenny. You are not alone and you are not bonkers. When I first started developing and applying boundaries after reading BR, he told me I was bonkers too. Like you, I was upset all the way along but he kept convincing me that it was just me…he was married and I was a mistress. Thus, the fact that I couldn’t deal with the circumstances of being a mistress was my issue, not his. Of course, I had no boundaries and did not dare say NO because I might be rejected…a rejected mistress! Dear lord, what the what was I thinking? These guys can twist reality into such a fantasy, if we let them.
I was angry for a long time and it is difficult grieving something that didn’t exist. I know it’s easy to say and much more difficult to do but don’t let him walk back into your life. I lied to myself too every time he said he “missed me”. At one point, a long while back, when he texted “I miss you, we belong together”, I responded “miss you too, then why aren’t we together”? Save yourself the grief of responding to that inane miss you text. It’s just more of the same shit. different day. Never, ever, ever will I feel sorry for some poor messed up dude that “misses me”. He’ll be with me, not texting how much he misses me. End of story. No more romance novels, classic or modern. As Fearless says, pfft. Miss you my arse! It’s actions, not texts. It’s boundaries and you aren’t bonkers for having boundaries, unless you are with an AC. AC’s don’t like boundaries.
Thank you runnergirl. Still keeping strong, couple of blips, but nothing serious.
He’s been on facebook half the weekend commenting on statuses of mutual friends that he knows I’ll see, this he never does, usually only bothering to update his own. I need to go back on and block him. I know he’s bothered but at this point realise I must make the distinction between him being bothered about me and his ego being bruised because that’s all it is. If he were truly bothered he wouldn’t have overstepped the mark in the first place, he knew where it was drawn.
Looking at the bigger picture which I am forced to do at this stage, everything about him and his behaviour is shady, everything he says is vague or ambiguous. He had said “let’s just get things back to how they were then we can see where we are going from there” – roughly translated I think this means – I want my leg over, I want you to think I am wonderful again and when you do I will be validated – then I will do one again.
I am beginning to think AC is an alternative name for narcissist. He always said nobody really knows me – that would be true given that all he projects is a false image of who he really is, I don’t even think he knows himself. He has to be adored and you have to believe he is perfect, else he’s out the door. Over-exaggerates his achievements (and boy was I in trouble when I accidentally found that out). Odd work habits – odd occupation, new ventures never last long and it’s always someone else’s fault, even though he is ambitious and capable at what he does. He can talk and talk about how people have hurt him – but I know I’ve never had the full picture (she did X, she hurt me, failing to mention the fact he was doing Y, probably in the most literal sense). I am beginning to think that the only person this man has empathy for is himself. I’ve “known” him for 20 years, “dated” him during the last 3. I do understand why he is the way he is (childhood), but my empathy (or the sacrificing of my self esteem) for *him or rather *his ego is spent. He always used to say “nothing goes right for me”, no what’s it Sherlock, curious if he will ever figure out why that is (slap hand) I shouldn’t care.
Thanks again “AC’s don’t like boundaries”, I loved that and won’t forget it
Jenny – I am having that same phrase thrown at me every day: “let’s just get things back to how they were then we can see where we are going from there.” Does that even mean anything? Why would we want to go backwards. And “WE” don’t want to go backwards…YOU do. I want to build a relationship which means moving forward. Things can never go back 100% to when you first meet. And frankly, I don’t know how to turn off the feelings I have built over the last year in order to play this going backwards game. Now, if I do anything that is not getting us back to where we used to be I am scolded and told that I am supposed to be working on this. But what am I working on doing???
Jenny,
I symapthise, really I do – I had plenty of issues with my now ex EUM (arse) for best part of a decade but I had precious few boundaries, and I’d say you have had the same problem with this guy. You have had your issues with him but the truth is you have not had boundaries (self-evidently, or you wouldn’t have put up with his shitty behaviour for three years); you have merely paid some lip-service to “boundaries” with him – talking about them or knowing what they should be isn’t the same as having them. When men behave like this guy does, having boundaries means ending the relationship and not going back. Don’t bother having anymore “issues” with what he’s up to on face book (he’s a prat) – apply a boundary: block and un-friend him. For good. And not just on f/book, in real life too)
Lilian, I think the idea – ie, what we are supposed to be doing is lowering our expectations lol, no way! Fearless you are absolutely right – blocked facebook and blocked his phone number from my mobile. No going back – ever.
My friend came back to town yesterday passing through, took me out for the day and we had absolute scream. I feel like I am smiling for the first time in years and am positively glowing. No better medicine than laughter! No dating yet I promise, working on myself, or rather why I carried on wanting that AC once I knew he was one. But, oh my, what a turnaround!