Recently a friend who is going through a breakup and trying to do No Contact (NC) vented her frustrations about how exhausting she is finding trying to fight off the urge to call, to send a text, to push for another discussion, to go around to his place and check if she’s been replaced and to fight the urge to push for reconciliation, especially as this relationship is more done than the gheri curl.
To be honest with you, if I was going out of my way to devote what sounds like every waking hour to either fighting the urge to reach out to being prepared for combat, I’d be exhausted too and I certainly wouldn’t have anything left to give in terms of self-nurturing or just being able to put one foot in front of the other and do my best to get on with my life.
My numerous initial attempts at NC were unsuccessful due to me fighting the war on self-esteem. I admit it – I often broke NC and ‘gave in’ simply because I was knackered. It felt like a relentless breakup because during my stint as the Other Woman, my whole life was consumed by him or my feelings about him and the situation. When I tried to end things (admittedly it was me having tantrums and hoping he’d spontaneously combust into being girlfriend free and minus his issues), I didn’t know what to do with myself.
- If I was bored, my response was, “Maybe I should text / email / call / invite him around / pick an argument / flirt with him / threaten to move back to Ireland / torture myself with whether he’s happier with her / wonder why I’m not good enough…” and then top if off by either acting upon these thoughts or giving me a hard time about having them.
- If I was stressed my response was, “Maybe I should text / email / call / invite him around / pick an argument / flirt with him / threaten to move back to Ireland / torture myself with whether he’s happier with her / wonder why I’m not good enough…” and lather, rinse, repeat.
- If the feelings of rejection, abandonment and loss struck, I lathered, rinsed, repeated which admittedly ended up being self-rejection, abandoning myself, and accentuating the loss.
- When my body was riddled with lumps and pain and I didn’t want to deal with those feelings , fears or even managing my own health, it was, yep, you guessed it, lathering, rinsing, repeating.
So of course a lot of the time what I was viewing as the same ‘urge’, was striking me and I was veering between trying to have the willpower to resist or assuming that this many urges must surely mean that I should give in. I thought it was some sort of message.
Remember that just because thoughts pop into your head, it doesn’t mean that it’s the Breakup Spirits trying to guide you back to your ex. “Go on. Text him/her and get yourself invited around for sex!” You broke up! It’s natural to think of your ex during the grieving process but you don’t have to chase every thought, whim and urge, and you certainly don’t have to remedy these thoughts with behaviour that you know only ends up hurting you further.
Of course, if I’d soothed feelings of boredom with something healthier, or faced or managed my stress, or sat with my feelings and stopped bashing me over the head about them, or actually payed some attention to my health, then I would not only have seen these ‘urges’ for what they were, but I might have started to feel better and gradually had the energy to increasingly take care of me instead of doing stuff that robbed me of my dignity. Thankfully I started soothing in a healthier manner. I also stopped looking for validation that ‘she’ wasn’t better than me and stopped chasing him for his ‘relationship debt’. Sometimes you’ve got to know when to wind your neck in and admit that it’s time to fold. I thought the sky would fall down in admitting a ‘mistake’ – avoiding admitting it was literally draining the life out of me.
When you initially break up with someone or decide to change a habit, you need a lot more willpower to resist the urge and to resist the temptation.
When you embark on No Contact, those first few weeks are basically about practicing the resistance to overcome temptation and learning to sit through your feelings. It’s also about finding alternative solutions to current or previous challenges that you’ve tended to look to your ex to ‘resolve’.
With plenty of repetition while at the same time supporting what you’re doing by making a commitment (validating your decision and making a resolution), eliminating and minimising opportunities for contact and almost distracting you with other aspects of your life, the days and then weeks start to add up where it starts to feel a bit easier, even though there are some days you will find harder than others.
Some people like to ‘dabble’ so rather than eliminate / minimise opportunities for temptation to be tested (e.g. defriending on Facebook), they think that they can put it right in front of them and not really make any changes and just try to stare down temptation. Sure some people can do this type of thing, but most people find it hard to give up chocolate when it’s sitting in their kitchen cupboard, so I’m not sure how one can think that they can cut contact but then field texts, emails, calls, and stuff popping up on Facebook!
Some days you’ll win, some days you’ll lose, but you stay the course and overall you start to feel you moving forward and feeling better, even though you’re still hurting.
I’ve helped enough people through NC to know that it’s pretty damn difficult to have any success at it if you go from being in a relationship where you made everything about them, to going through a breakup where you’re still making everything about them because you don’t know what to be or do with yourself outside of a relationship. If you opt out of a relationship NC or not, and you typically neglect you and are in fact heavily reliant on another party for your identity, you can be damn sure that you’ll be fighting off the urge to put your hand in the fire because you’re giving you less attention than what someone who isn’t around is giving you.
Instead of feeling bad about saying NO to them, start looking at it as saying YES to you, even if at its most basic, you’re saying YES to knowing that you deserve better.
Part of changing habits is incorporating self-support into it, even if that’s a new habit you have to learn as part of the process because anything else feels like torment and punishment. You will find it a hell of a lot easier to make change if a significant portion of your energy isn’t being used to resist and undermine you.
There is something else that is often forgotten: when you begin to face down challenges and put your self-esteem front and centre of what you’re doing, it increases your confidence but you will also find that due to validation that you have your own back, you end up also being left with more energy to take care of you and to move your life forward.
Your thoughts?
About the Author:
Natalie Lue is the founder and writer of Baggage Reclaim and author of the books Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship and more. Learn more about her here and you can also follow her on Facebook and Twitter - @baggagereclaim .
Natalie (NML) – who has written 1083 posts on Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue.
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I actually saw your post yesterday but wasn’t quite ready to read it. I felt it would be a reminder of my “Mistake”. However, today, I was feeling kind of bummed out and missing the affection I once had.However, I did think back and remember why I broke it off. He always left me feeling empty and sad. Kind of like a broken dish you no longer use but never throw out.I did have some happy momemts but blaming him wasn’t going to change anything so I changed.I then realized omg, its been 3 months since I last thought of him.I was estatic…that he wasn’t lingering in my mind anymore.The only reason he came to mind was because he was the last guy but not my last love. I am so hopefully and trust in my journey.The next relationship I’m in will be worthy of my time
Natalie, your words ring so true. “Putting your hand back into the fire” is exactly what we do when we contact someone who is not in touch with us. For however long you were together, or if they just disappeared, it makes no difference. We will never know the reasons for sure, so best to leave things alone. I reached out a couple times, and he emailed back immediately–was cordial, nice, but bottom line–it aint going anywhere, so why keep burning your hand? My reaching out was months ago, and I have to say, I feel better about me. I think often these men feel, “she’ll get in touch again, she’ll be back round.” It feels so damn good to just go “poof” and be gone, that is, if you can just stick with it! As far as your other words, “having your own back”–that’s just priceless! We get so lost in these men, it’s easy to go against yourself and that’s a mistake I won’t be making again! Thank you SO much for these valuable reminders, you’re a god-send!!
I might add that digging deeper and actually finding out the reason why is also like constantly burning your hand! Sometimes the reason is exactly what you feared it would be, or it isn’t what you wanted. That’s why it can be good to trust your instincts, because they’re almost always dead on about a situation even if you can’t explain why.
@Paris, even with growth and learning from BR we all have setbacks. Forgive yourself and see it for what it is…. a bump in the road. You are on your way. Try to let it go (it’s hard, I know).
Hugs.
Thank you Natasha for sharing your experience with us fellow BR readers. I am sorry you got burned. I can assure you that the ONLY reason I knew that I needed to opt out is because of Nat and BR. Unfortunately, I am a recovering fallback girl but am learning to bail sooner and to heed the red flags much sooner than I have in the past. I am an EUM magnet, and have taken this relationship falling apart as a clue that I don’t end up in these unavailable relationships by chance, it’s because I haven’t done the hard work on me. But I am back in therapy and trying to stop running from my pain and building myself up and learning to love myself and validate myself outside of relationships with men. I have a long way to go but like many of us, need to pause every once in awhile and appreciate how far I have come.
Willpower. Wow. Today I ate a chocolate chip cookie, two peanut butter candies, two sugar cookies, a bite of six different cupcakes and a milkshake. And hated every bite, every bit of it. What the fuck? It’s like in Scar Face when Robert de Niro’s face falls slumped down in mounds of cocaine. That’s me. Except it’s not cocaine, it’s baked goods. Ice creams and cakes.I wish there were a subtype of Fallback girl called the Binger. And Natalie would write about her and how she avoids life by eating herself to death. Or the Sabotager and how she, ah Natalie wrote a blog post on this…Choppers. That’s me I chop everything and anything good out of my life. To add to all the crap I ate, I did eat a couple fish tacos. I love them, they are my favorite. It’s all I truly wanted in the first place, but I crave for sugar though I hate it, just as I crave these unavailable men. But I won’t be going back to the fish taco venue. The wait was long and I made a scene like an impatient asshole. I AM A COMPLETE FUCKING MESS. I hate myself right now. I am just so angry at me for being a bafoon and fucking my days up. It’s like groundhog day every fucking day. Get up. Binge. Fuck up my day. Sleep a bit. Get up, binge and fuck up yet another of my days. I. just. can’t. seem. to. get. it. right. I am my own worst enemy. And I don’t know what to do.
Jennifer
You could try a book called eating less available on amazon. Book has good things to say about self esteem and choices, it,s not about dieting which we know doesn’t work.
Author has a website too.
I second Grace’s advice. She mentioned Eating Less once before and I bought it and read it. I am a lifelong compulsive eater and reading that book changed my life. Thanks Grace
@ Soozie,
Thanks for the recommendation. I think it’d be wise for me to order. So I will. Thanks for the help!
@grace,
Thank you. I will certainly check it out
Yikes! Read a couple of psychology books on overeating, (emotional eating) then read Kat James (former repeat bulimic) The Truth About Beauty. She is a nutrition researcher, who was carbohydrate addicted as well. She is ‘pill free’ for body cleanse purity reasons, but you might want to look at antidepressants to help you through? Strategize your problems and your avoidance of them one by one, make a game plan to tackle them so they are not floating around in your psyche causing you to harm yourself.
Jennifer Tiffany, Stop beating yourself up over it. Who doesn’t crave some food and sweets? I bet if you make a poll here, you’ll get a 99.99% consensus we’re all there one day or another. It passes, maybe your body needed it… Instead of wailing over it, go for a run or workout, dance it out. Other than the burnt calories, dancing and working out provide your body with the “happy chemicals” similar to those provided by sweets, especially chocolate. Sometimes, I’d get out of the gym, buy a bar of chocolate and gobble it. The world is not all red carpet models who go on the 7 almonds diet for months. I’d rather not eat perfectly and maintain the human weak part than be all plastic, even in my routine, diet and emotions.
Re-read the previous post on self blame. You’re one of the influential BRers, and I bet if you saw your post, you’d kick your own a** for the amount of self blame and judgment. Guess we’re all our own worst enemies
Chin up and tomorrow’s a new day
@MSA
You are right, I do need to stop beating myself up over this. I reread my post and thought, “Dang, I’d be concerned reading that had I not written it too.” So much self loathing. Today is better. I realized how I loved my ex when he was grumpy, infantile, intoxicated, mean, cruel, overly critical, bingeing himself. And yet, I crucify me when I eff up??!! Something just isn’t right here. I need to practice the same level and more if at all possible of love and understanding for myself than I did with the jerk I was with.
JenniferTiff, I get it. I am sitting here eating my second Starbucks pastry after eating two hamburgers; last night I ordered two large pizzas and ate a whole one. This after a month of no meat, wheat, sugar or dairy. I’m definitely on a binge, though I tried to really look at my cutting sugar/white flour/meat as a new lifestyle, not a diet.
And yet I find myself having these two-pastry-three-sandwich meals and wanting to puke afterward, tiny echoes of having been bulimic and furious in my late teens/early twenties.
I’ve been on this cycle a few times, so I’m not *totally* beating myself up, but I do want to know wtf is going on. I even started a blog about my new eating, only to stop posting when I started downsliding. I thought I was *ready* to be good to myself.
I was so psyched to have submitted my dissertation and finished it without the accompanying pig-out. But I hit send on an important job application last night after the seventh slice of pizza (veggie at least, ha!).
I do feel that completing the job application and having to ask for references again was emotionally hard; I never feel as though I have cultivated the right relationships. People said no to giving me letters and my frenemy colleague suggested I’d be lucky to get an interview.
Hmm, just thinking about how my father always pushed me to compare myself to Olympic athletes but then told me I didn’t have the stamina or commitment. I don’t want to admit that maybe I don’t … and the eating clean just seems like one more thread of trying to get it right … and the crappy food is always there, convenient and tasty and I get to the point of not being able to resist …
Anyway, you’re not alone in feeling like food issues and relationship issues mirror each other, Jennifer Tiffany! Onward.
Unfortunately the food thing is a by product of kicking an EUM AC to the curb. We either stop eating or we eat everything in sight. I have always had food issues, always been slightly overweight, even when I did martial arts, I would eat MORE to always seem to maintain that slightly overweight status. The weirdest thing…when the EUM break came, it was the most severe thing I’d gone through, I all but STOPPED eating, lost 15 lbs, and haven’t gained it back. I think on some level, it was the final straw on all fronts…no more EUM’s, no more binge eating instead of feeling my feelings. Though, I still drink beer and smoke ciggies…so I’m not saying I’m perfect now by any means
One step at a time
@jewells,
I have really had to face my addiction to food since I don’t have so much drama in my life since the ex left. I had no idea it was this bad. I have been in utter La La land, thinking I could just diet it away. Or if I had enough willpower. For me it isn’t willpower that keeps me going back to the binge. It’s not loving myself to figure out how to do better and not going through the uncomfortable to get to the healthy. But, yes, as you say, one step at a time
@Magnolia,
Thanks, it helps to not feel alone (not that I would wish this on anyone and certainly not a fellow BRer). But sometimes it can feel as though I am the only woman who eats eight donuts in a sitting because she’s lonely. For me it’s really key in soothing my emotions with affirming, kind thoughts. But man is it tough when, for near twenty eight years, your instinctual reaction is to reach for cookies or pizza. It’s really about catching myself and trying to do better, even though it’s soooo uncomfortable because it is utterly foreign for me to soothe in ways that don’t involve food.
I had two cookies, a cupcake, some chips (crisps to you Brits), cheese and crackers, and my daughter just went out and picked up some Mexican food for dinner. And I’m drinking wine. Carbo-rama. But I did run for 1/2 hour, I work with kids K-5 all day…it’s all about balance. Some days I carbo-load and I don’t even exercise. It’s just what I’m drawn to when tired, bored, and stressed. But I’ve learned at the ripe old age of 49 that one day off the wagon won’t kill me, won’t make me like a whale and other horrible things I say to myself. Or used to say. Don’t be so hard on yourself!
@Tracy,
You mentioned balance. That is something I so resist against. I don’t know what it is with me. I am terrified of balance. So I starve myself or binge. I get involved with men who are all about me (hot) and then all but disappear (cold).
I started going to OA years ago, and I can start anytime during the day to eat healthier that day. I started to journal what I was feeling every time I wanted to binge. I may have still binged but I prolonged it. I also will do something before I binged to see if I could delay or stop the urge. And eventually they both worked. I learned I did have control over the urge BEFORE i started to binge. And that was the key. It’s not about the food, it’s about what’s going on inside. If I want to binge today, I might, but most times, I have the inner voice that says to me, “What’s really going on here?” So I will write, go for a walk, call somebody. And the urge usually passes, and I feel empowered and good about myself. MY ex narc AC, would say I looked scrawny, etc, and I would call him out on it, because he was out of control with his eating and weight. But my appearance was real important to him, to the point of telling me how to dress ( sexier than I ever felt appropriate, which I refused to do ) he was probably 25-50 lbs overweight and had his own eating problems. I also know I am vulnerable right now, so I am using a LOSE IT app on my phone to write down what I am eating today. SO I know I am eating healthy, for my body, and if I want to eat the junk, (fat, sugar, white flour are my binge foods) I know I am eating for emotional reasons, And I keep myself accountable. I know it is trying to fill a hole in my soul. And years of being in recovery using the 12 steps, I’ve learned to turn to my Higher Power to help relief me of the urge. It’s worked for me. And I’m doing the same thing with the ex. asking to remove the urge to contact him, etc, etc. Just sharing what has worked for me.
@Emerldeyez,
Thank you for sharing. I am using external means to solve internal problems. It doesn’t work that way so I keep having the same problems as they never get solved. I have found a food journal does help. Also I binge on the same foods as you mentioned. Interesting.
@JT:
Hey, hang in there. I went through the bulimic/anorexic/over exercise drama for years. What finally helped me was; one, really good vitamins ( you are probably very b deficiant) and two, writing down what my feelings were, when I wanted to binge. For me, I used it to stuff down anger. I started the eating disorder in my teens, because I was so mad about being abused, both sexually and physically/emotionally. Vomiting and running until I could not think straight from exhaustion, was a way to deplete my anger…
JT you really want to deal with this head on. Get a therapist that specializes in eating disorders because it can take a HUGE toll on your body. I got stress fractures from amenorhea that still ach today and I almost died from a fainting spell of low blood sugar. It is not something to toy with. You will not be able to believe how much better you will feel with some nutrients in your body and maybe more natural sweets: I love dates and I eat greek yogurt with agave a lot. Go easy on yourself and make yourself a nice healthy warm salad with some greens and veggies, some tamari and some beans and such…and then if you want have a few cookies but don’t deprive yourself of healthy food to just eat junk. Fish tacos are not horrible, if you get some veggies with them and have corn tortillas, they are pretty healthy. PLEASE get some vitamens a.s.a.p.
@dancingqueen,
You are right. This is no joke. These things take such a toll on the body. I am wracked. It’s hard for me to care anymore. I feel as though I’ve lost the battle with the bingeing. The bingeing is the disorder that’s at the forefront these days. I have gone to organic food retreats, read countless books on healthy eating, know all about processed foods vs healthy, whole foods. I try listening to my body. But I’m clueless as what to eat. When I start eating well, I get cravings for junk that I feel must be how a heroin junkie fiends for the drug. It’s funny, it’s comparable to the magnetic pull toward my unavailable ex. I swear, it feels as if my cravings are taking over every inch of my body and then I loose all control. I obsess over food, interestingly enough, the way I did over the EU ex. I just have so little else going on in my life because I’m scared of the outside world, so that so much room is left for my eating disorder. I’m a survivor of incest, rape and repeated sexual assault. I know there is a connection between these things and my self hate. Also, my anorexia/bingeing started not too long after my mother’s suicide when I was twelve.
Hi to all of you. I have been where you are. As I said in a previous post,that NC is the hardest thing you will do. I can relate to all of the blocking and unblocking, to going up and down the merry go round. I remember a girlfriend saying to me that one day there will be a day, that you will not remember the last thing he said, or a tex or the need to talk about it. She was right. 6 months later, and I am truly doing things for me. It is normal to not feel that you belong…anywhere. When will the pain end? The longing for them? The not wanting to know about a new interest? Or the bargaining. The bargaining I realized was with the devil! I allowed him in, and he kept the ball rolling because I allowed it. I have started dating, and had my first real, Red flag that I actually caught onto. I met a gentleman much older than me on a dating sight. He swept me off of my feet. We had a great time the last 2 months. He took me on a short vacation to a beach. It was a beautiful resort, and we had an amazing time. He loves pictures, so we took quite a few of us in certain places around the resort. I found out that I was the 3rd person that he had taken to this place. I found out that the love of his life, that dumped him because he could not be trusted, and a control freak…took him there!! He was engaged to another women 2 years ago, and took her there also! The engagement was broke off then I stepped into the picture…I took my time..with this man, because I really was comfortable with him. I could be looking way over the bar here…but I think there is something really wrong with this picture…or should I say pictures!!! I was told by a mutual friend (I met through him) that I was the third one to go there with him. I was speechless. I ended the relationship and have not looked back. He did not understand, and tried to really explain to me that it is just a special place to him…and he loves it there. Special for WHO? If I sound unreasonable I am sorry. I figured that it was easier to empty the bin then continue down a path of constant wonder. He tried to contact me every way possible. I blocked him from every possibility of getting in touch with me. He was relentless. I have been through worse…and the relationship previously has been the worst pain of loss that I have ever gone through. I worry that I have become numb…I got alot of validation that this was the right thing to do…I hope so…
Ownthetruth59..Congrats to you for seeing the red flags early & flushing.
Why continue down that path when u know what the outcome w/be. I hope if and when I am ready to date I will be as cautious as you & flush early. Thank god for BR & Nat to show us the way to finding a fulfilling,mutual relationship built on love,care,respect & trust. Onward & upward to all…
Thanks Kit Kat…I struggle with the outcome of this. Thinking that I overreacted, as I am used to looking the other way. He was a great guy..but there was something not right to me anyway, with taking 3 women to a Resort and taking pictures in the same area’s. I have my days, where I am second guessing my choice. As you said,with the help of this site and Natalie’s knowledge that she so willingly passes onto us…I would not have had the guts to do it…Flush Away!! Thank you for your response!~
Ownthetruth59…wow! That must have blown your mind when you found out he’d been there a few times before. I had an AC/EUM who only thought the ‘good’ places to go were places he had been with his ex-wife. That got really tiresome…I mean, how could there possibly be any memories created with me when what he was trying to do was recreate whatever he had with his ex.
Congrats for flushing in time!
Thank you Tracy~Yes you are correct. We all have our special places..and the right to go there when we want> For me is about being played. I feel as you do, how are there any positives in developing a new relationship when you are trying to mirror what you had with someone else. There is this little tug in me though…(did I overreact??) I dont want to be that person, that looks at everything..I think this was for me a deal breaker!~
In two days, I will be one month NC. I’ve had many happy moments while single, met new people, networked, am enjoying myself and learning more about myself.
Yet I still have much more work to do. I’ve worked a lot with my grief and rage, but it still resurfaces every week. I still struggle with the compulsion to check my “ex’s” (or pevious eum’s) dating profile to see if he’s still dating that girl he gave the “precious” exclusivity to. Pathetic, right? But I haven’t given in and hopefully, I won’t. I remember how awful it felt the last time I gave into temptation and he told me how “happy” he was.
It’s odd how nobodies affect us. This person wasn’t even in my life for more than a month, and the words/actions are still remembered almost every day in some way or the other. I have to fight my own mind constantly.
But, I am doing it, I am growing stronger, I am accomplishing milestones, I am overcoming the battles I was always meant to fight but kept delaying. I am facing all the grief and all the pain from past relationships (and admittedly still struggling from the past emotional abuse), de-victimizing myself and making myself the heroine of my own story. That’s got to count for something!
As a supplement to BR, I highly recommend Greg Bernhardt’s book, “It’s Called a Breakup because it’s Broken.” It’s much better than He’s Just Not that Into You (less simplified) and has a lot of insight similar to BR and also fun to read. Gave me a lot of laughs!
This one, yes, ha, ha, hilarious, better than “He’s just not that into you”!. Looking back, how things that used to seem epochal, start to seem ridiculous, and with the wisdom of hindsight, one starts to poke fun at oneself:
The thing that stresses me out after many months of NC is this: what should I do if I run into him on the street? Or what do I do if I suddenly get one of his IMs?
Be polite but distant? Ignore and act as if he´s air? Kick him in the groin?
I´ve been over the options once and again, until I finally imagined myself saying the only thing that feels right, namely Listen EUM, I can´t do this. I can´t play games and act as if nothing happened. So goodbye.
I feel those words really honor my emotions and are an affirmation of myself. Of course I may never see or hear from him again, but having those words ready makes me feel like I´m taking care of myself.
Not that I am an expert on this but I do feel I have made some decisions in the past months that have kept my focus on ME rather than my ex. I haven’t succeeded all the time as can be seen by some of my posts but I am conscious that I need to keep redirecting my energy away from the failed relationship, rehashing it, blaming myself, thinking about what was wrong with him and me etc. etc. I am a woman who thinks and talks too much and power pointed the relationship to death and of course I have a lot of PAIN and ANGER left that can never be expressed. But in good BR terms I have tried to commit myself to what I call loosely “going forward” So everyday and especially days when I feel my direction is getting muddy I try to engage in something that directs my energy elsewhere. I contact a new or old friend, send an email to an interesting person, absorb myself in my work, go out – even alone to a movie, despite work pressures am taking an academic language course at university three times a week, bought a lot of new clothes and especially great fancy French lingerie which I never did before (just for ME to appreciate), work out a lot at the gym, lost 25 pounds and gained a lot of muscle, got a hot recommendation for a hair stylist and did it, got some professional pictures taken last year which make me look casual but really good (just for me),started a new blog, travel whenever I can for business, and if I can find a cheap rate I go to a fancy hotel for an evening (by myself). Oh and the spa…(I get lots of gift cert from family). I read BR reclaim like a maniac every day and have bought a nice little stack of erotica for myself. Plus a visit to the Romance Store – things I would have never done before because I had no sexual interest in my ex for a long time because he was so disengaged and a boy type person. So anyway, I am proud of all that…it ALL has helped and a lot of it has been fun. Do I wish there was a new man to share this with? I did six months ago but now I am just as happy working out stuff by myself for now. I don’t think I would be a very good “partner to anybody” and although I thought I “could” have had a fling..I see now that would have been so destructive for me. Some days are gold and some are mud. It takes a long time to process a long relationship and some days I feel I am doing really well and other days not.
Expresso,
You are truly on the path! Good for you and all your hard work! You inspired me today!
Now I’m worrying he’s going to do something stupid because he’s mentioned it before. I have still heard nothing from him. This is freaking me out.
shyner
I’m speaking here as someone who has been involved with more than one man on a self-destructive path involving serious suicide attempts, substance abuse, drink-driving etc. So I know where you’re at, although I wish I’d listened when I got this advice.
Whatever path they might be on, it is NOT YOUR WORRY OR YOUR BUSINESS. If he wanted your help he would be there getting it, not pushing you away and treating you so badly. Even when people’s decisions are stupid, genuinely caring about them means respecting them enough to let them make their own choices.
It’s good to be kind and to help people in trouble. However, it isn’t good (or kind or helpful) if all you’re doing is enabling them in behaving in a cruddy way that is probably bad for their soul and their mh as well as hurtful for you. You can support, IF they let you (which he isn’t doing), but you can’t save. No-one can.
IF he’s hell-bent on doing something stupid then there’s nothing you can do about it – it’s his choice and his responsibility. DON’T let your brain trick you into thinking that it’s a reasonable excuse for running after him or sending many freaked-out, your-affairs-are-the-centre-of-my-universe texts. Either way they probably won’t help him.
shyner… SO WHAT if he does something stupid. U need to stop worrying about him & his life & concentrate on YOURS. Your focus is totally on the wrong person here. Until you do that you are going to be stuck in quick sand and its exhausting & futile…
Pleaseee My ex got me on that “I want to die” thing more than once. Yea so we will be there for them and die a slow death. It’s another way to take the focus off you and on to them. Mine even played the cancer card once. He had a little mole on his face.
Oh, god. I feel like a right loon – all that texting, and the phonecalls. I’ve been driving myself round the bend trying to figure it all out, wondering what he’s doing/thinking. We used to talk to each other all the time and send each other little messages. It’s a bit of shock to go from that to nothing. He’s back next week. Dreading it, really. Beth – your reply is eerily familiar and I think your right about the focus thing.
Hold strong I had the frequent contact thing too with my ex and it really was so hard to stop and so much easier to break to avoid the pain. Our relationship was wonderful at times so I had to wipe out that part and think about the crazymaking that occurred. The roller coaster and highs and lows will always keep you in a tailspin and on an uneven keel. I finally have peace but I do have my moments of feeling bad because I know I can’t be friends with him which he wants badly but I know I have to love me and find peace in my life.
Still nothing from him. I remembered last night that he had said to me, ‘I can’t take any more criticism, justified or not, it makes me want to find a cliff and jump off it’. I’m not sleeping well as a result of that comment.
Shyner, he can’t talk the ‘critism’ because he can’t take on board that his behavour is atrocious so all he hears is like the teacher on peanuts ‘wha wha wha wha wha’, it all sounds to him like you’re picking on him as he hasn’t got the faculty to process what you are saying to be able to do anything about it. Either that or it’s a ploy to get you to ‘lay off’ cause he doesn’t care or want to know. Either way, he’s no good for you, best leave him to his own devices and find a man that is better behaved.
Another manipulation. They play the pity card every chance they get especially when you call out their bs and show your disgust. Please think of you right now and the fact that things will get better for you but only if you stick with NC. I do know how hard it is but the longer you go the clearer the picture will be and the sooner you will be on the path of happiness and peace.
He said it during my trip out to visit him. Today, I texted his colleague, though he won’t like it, to ask if he is ok because I have still heard nothing. That’s just the way I roll, I’m afraid. I did that because I can’t get past why he’s had nothing to say about me getting rid of his stuff. He has previously said that if I got rid of it, he would get the police onto me. Nice! I would only ever put it in storage, though, and I am very surprised he’s not making sure that’s what I’m doing. I read a big article on NPD yesterday and it was literally all true. Madness.
I am absolutely riddled with uncertainties. I have been quite insecure in my relationship with him and now oscillate between whether I have brought all this on myself or whether he has fuelled my insecurities. I also wonder if they weren’t insecurities, that they were actually my sensible head screaming, ‘get out of this!’. It’s a horrible space to be in, and not one that I was expecting. I had asked him on a number of occasions if he wanted to be with me, and he always said yes but not very nicely. He often put the phone down on me. Also, I look dreadful – very tired.
I understand checking up on them. When they are making like you have them suicidal which my ex has done to me you can’t help but worry because you are a good person and no matter how much you want out of the relationship insanity you don’t want anything bad to happen to them. I can’t say that I haven’t checked his kids social media accounts just to make sure he is ok. I hate when I do it but I have that same way of rolling. My new thing is to NOT check up anymore because it keeps me engaged and in the web and I realize that he is fine and I have worried more than I should in this relationship over nothing.
Blimey. This is a right laugh, isn’t it. There’s just a litany of things that scream RED FLAG ALERT! and I am still finding it hard to believe I let this happen in my life. The two things I brought to the table were insecurity (but when someone starts asking you on the phone if they should wear their tight swimming shorts on the beach/tells you that the woman on the beach that morning seemed to understand when he told her he wasn’t on the pull, it just looks like it because he’s a single man/’has to go now because I’m meeting a woman’, etc etc and that I have texted and phoned too much this week- I think I can forgive myself those, too.
It’s time I stopped beating myself up. he’s been living in my house and all his bloody stuff’s here. It’s not that he was someone I hooked up with once a week.
shyner,
I’ve been following your posts and other replies’ and you got some that hit the nail on the head.
Are you worried he might do something stupid TO YOU??!! If that’s the case, then seek help immediately. Idk if you can file the report that you got threatened, but do whatever it takes to keep YOU safe.
If by stupid you mean, something like suicide, then I believe others said more than enough. He did enough destruction to you. He feels as if he’s losing his grip on you. whether it’s one more of his games to get you back in his trap, or he means it, it’s not your responsibility, he DRAINED you!! Enough is ENOUGH! He’s a grown man (supposedly :\ ) but oh well, his life, his decisions. you just STAY SAFE and kick him out ASAP
Oh, Discarded, so sorry this has happened to you. Believe me, I know how you feel because I’ve been there too. It hurts like hell, but you need to take time for yourself and grieve the loss. Because it will get better. And remember: you deserve so much better! Hang in there xxx
Oh, sorry, I hit the wrong Reply. This was intended for Discarded:)
I guess one positive is that there’s no kids and the relationship was only 4 months in. I really need to stop thinking it’s my fault, driving him away with my insecurities. He was already behaving bizarrely and badly.
His friend got in touch with me and apparently he’s having a lovely time on the beach with all of his new friends. So, I pasted my message to AC back to him (just in case AC didn’t see it) and told him to tell AC to fuck off from me. Not exactly laden with dignity but seemed appropriate, somehow. I hope I never see or speak to him again.
Shyner, I responded to a comment on another post that I wanted to add here so that you could see this.
*****
I just want to add something here because this week I’ve had to say to several students on the self-esteem course, the same thing I’m going to say to you Lacy, Shyner and anyone else in these chaotic ‘relationships’:
Even Jerry Springer / Maury / the guy from Cheaters / Jeremy Kyle would balk at these tales. The question remains as to why the unacceptable has become acceptable and why there is lack of recognition converted into actions that translates into getting out of this chaos? This (the comments and analysing their behaviour) is the talk of someone who is trying to make sense out of crap. Crap is crap. You see someone behave in dodgy ways that reveals lack of character – what is there to analyse unless you’re looking for reasons to blame you or trying to find a way to continue?
Why do these relationships feel like ‘home’ to you that you can describe the assholery that these ‘men’ pull and not think ‘Hold up a frickin second here – this is some crazy shit!’
I know that none of you are crack addicts so why are you acting like these men are your last meal and like you have no options? These men are disgusting with their free range penises going around sexing and making babies they can’t even take care of.
*This*, all this crazy Jerry Springer type relationship stuff is not love or even a relationship. There comes a point where you need to recall every ounce of pride you have – *this* is that time.
****
Also Shyner, take that mans shit, box it up and deposit it at his friends house or a place he frequents. You are not Big Yellow Storage and you’re not in a remake of New Jack City. Do not keep this mans stuff so that you can continue in this drama. Get that mans shit out of your house and keep him out of your life and get the help you need to keep it that way. How this hobo excuse of a man who gives genuine people who have hit hard times and ended up homeless a bad name, ever managed to cross your threshold is something that you can address *without* him. He survived on this earth for X amount of years before you came into his life, believe me when I say that he will be able to manage without you.
*Need* and *dependency* are not love.
You can give everything to a person so that they depend on you and they supposedly cannot leave (or ‘should’ no reason to) but not only is this unhealthy, but it’s a waste, especially when you do this for assclowns.
Amen Natalie!!!
Still nothing from him. At least he will have got the message by now. He doesn’t have any friends that I can drop his stuff at. There’s shitloads of it – massive TV,PS3, speakers, tonnes of clothes, personal stuff, stereo, books…I looked into a storage place and it would cost me £60, which I don’t have. Shove it all in my shed and arrange a time with him to collect it? I don’t really have any other options. Friends wouldn’t have the room for it all. There’s a lot. I am looking forward to having nothing further to do with him. It weirds me out that to think that he might be all sorted now, and all his weird, mad, self-destructive, narcissistic traits are going to disappear, he will be wonderful and his new girlfriend and he will be very happy. I took a lot of shit from him, and listened to a lot of stuff.
I literally do not understand how it came to this. Yes, I was insecure and he got fed up with reassuring me. But I think he fed those insecurities in ways that I didn’t recognise at the time. I have come out of this feeling violated in some ways, used in others and overall, my sense of self-care, self-esteem and certainties have all been smashed up. How can someone continually say how much they care for you, want to get a place with you, etc etc drop me like a stone. Not even bother replying to me trying to organise their belongings for them. Am I THAT much of a nobody. Jesus, why the fuck do I even care??!!
I have asked the man he is away with to text me the details of the lock-up the rest of his stuff is in, seeing as that man paid for all of that for AM. No doubt he will be angry with me for involving him again but I don’t think I’m left with any other choice seeing as AM has blanked me. I feel dreadful.
AM? I mean, AC.
My ex left me out of nowhere, he chased me non stop to get me back (10yr history) Then suddenly when I give in and commit. He gets a new job and within 2 weeks I’m dumped and discarded like I meant nothing. He said I was the one, and only wanted me, and wanted us to be together, but the sudden change was so quick, 2 weeks!!! Then suddenly I have to ‘let go’ he couldn’t even wish me the best or anything. All I got was to move on and take care, how can someone who is supposed to be in love with you do that? Haven’t heard a peep since either, except my attempt for closure. He couldn’t care less, so nasty and harsh
Ouch!!! I know the feeling of being tossed from Heaven to Hell… You’ll just need time to grieve, cope, and since it was sudden and he chased you and due to the length of your history together, my guess is that the grief process will probably take a while. Hang in there! Keep working on yourself.. I know the pain is too much to handle, but you can do it. There’s no magic wand or click of fingers. The only way out is through..
Some men’s actions can’t be explained and I find this one particularly puzzling. ((((hugs to you))))
Cause he is probably a malignant narcissist. They all eventually do the devalue and discard routine. You are left shocked and reeling. Hang in there because you most likely will hear from him again and you will need to be strong next time.
Wont hear off him again, had his year and half fun and gone!! Been over 2weeks now, so no chance.
So much for love, couldn’t of meant that much if could walk away that easy
I was with a narcissist AC for a year and a half and the weekend before he dumped me he acted like I walked on water, he wanted me around more than ever…Four days later, he couldn’t be in a relationship anymore (he wanted to get it on with a woman in his AA group…she was a pinhead). Never heard A WORD from him until 9 months later when he came crawling back. But in the meantime, I got a lot of strength and realized that I let this guy slide on A LOT of shit and being without him was liberating! Anyone who can dump someone so quickly and so completely is NOT, I repeat NOT a good person and does NOT deserve ANYTHING from you.
Oh, and BTW, I didn’t let him back. And he had the nerve to be ANGRY at me for refusing his ‘offer’.
Good for you Tracy!
2 weeks is nothing. They come back after months especially when they are on a downward spiral which will happen. They tend to repeat the same mistakes and then try to go back to who they think will forgive them.
It was very final, his work is his ‘other half’ now (his words). Me? Thrown out with the rubbish. Just think all that time and money for what? Think hes def narcissistic. We had fights as you do, but this time. Didn’t want to know. Didn’t even want to give me closure, it hurts. But I deserve better than that
yes, I just had one come back to me ( or try to) after THIRTY years. Idealize, devalue, discard. Idealize, devalue, discard. They know no other way. They are DANGEROUS. they are NOT NORMAL. Please stay away.
No they are sure not, idealize, devalue and discard. That IS what happened, just didn’t realize to the end
Least saw him for what he was in the end, just numb from it all. But I shall get on with my life and hopefully meet someone who does really love me. He tried to make out he did love me, but that’s what happening and its over. Nice eh
WOW, Espresso! You are doing great. And, you mean to tell me you are still not “there” yet? I am truly ecstatic over how much you are doing for YOU. Today is Feb 1. I am doing very well, but I need to do better. I’m thankful that I don’t even recognize who I was when I was in a torrid affair with an MM. It too sooo long, twice as long, to get over him as the time I spent with him. But I stuck it out. I get very frustrated when some us us throw around the term NC when what they is they’re taking a break, but still agreeable to getting back with him and even voluntarily contacting him. What kind of NC is that? NC is a VERY SPECIFIC state that is special and we need to have more respect when we call it that. The most distinguishing factor is that it OVER. It’s not temporary, you don’t leave but still every waking moment is consumed by thoughts of him. I’ll never forget how CC described it as regurgitating all of the sh*t. It’s a total cleansing of the mind. it takes time but, instead of being preoccupied with him and his life each and every day, you are consciously working on YOU. I am so happy to see that more of us are mentioning no only the great benefits of reading BR daily, Natalie’s books and e-courses, but also seeing a therapist with whom you can let it all out. Generally when you’re in a relationship that is secret like an affair, or one in which you yourself know is not good for you, you’re going to keep a lot to yourself. You gotta talk to somebody and get it out. I’m also trying to establish a closer walk with the Lord. He DOES answer prayers. Oh well, I guess I’ll stop rambling now. I just woke up and always start my day reading BR and all this stuff came into to mind inspired by Espresso. Thank you, Hon, for your words. You are such a role model.
Xcuse all the typos. Typing too fast and haven’t even had my coffee yet, LOL!
This is one of the best posts I have ever read on here.. and there are alot of very good, very accurate ones. If you are having trouble getting over someone, do yourself a favor and print this out, and read it every time you feel like you are about to go over the edge of sellling yourself out and making contact or even checking up on them.
I’ve been there, this is absolutely how I felt and what I did too at first.. and ultimately why I finally found the strength to leave it alone and move on. I didnt think I would ever survive this… but even though it still hurts sometimes, I still miss her and even feel like I still love her, I know I am going to be ok and that eventually I will be totally over this.. I see the light at the end of the tunnel finally, and I know how to get there.
On top of that I am extremely proud of myself even when I am feeling bad about things at the same time… because I was able to walk away, and didn’t make nearly the ass of myself or gave away my self esteem doing pitiful or regretful things as I’ve done in past breakups to try to keep the relationship alove or because I was afraid of letting go. I still lost her, but didn’t lose my dignity. I will get over this and someday the pain will be totally gone – and I did it without compromising myself and doing anything I might regret for many years to come… I am very empowered by that.
If I can get through this any of you can… keep this awesome post handy its strength in paragraph form… one foot in front of the other and “Fake it Until You Make it”… and you will look up one day and be through the worst of it, and ready for something better to come into your life.
Bob, are you still seeing that new woman while posting about not yet being totally over your ex?
If he is, let’s be compassionate. We don’t know the full story. Perhaps, like many of us, he has been trying to be friends with the ex while keeping his heart open to new, real relationships. We’ve read the BR columns about the fallacy of such friendship, but that doesn’t mean that we act perfectly. We all know that its best to totally heal from the kind of damaging relationship that brings us to BR before jumping into the next relationship, but it can be hard to see that clearly in the moment, especially if you’re trying to be friends with your ex and are trying to be compassionate towards him/her. It sounds, in practice, that while Bob deeply misses his ex, he isn’t acting in any way that would be a betrayal to his new partner. He just said that he’s proud of acting in as dignified a way as he can. I am sure that Bob knows that he owes it to his new partner to let go of these feelings for his ex in order to be truly emotionally available.
Well said Bob.
I also had my own bad experiences and seemed so hard and impossible to get over them but now I only regret that i didn’t find baggage reclaim before.
It is not easy but our dignity it’s worth the effort to move on.
I’m glad to read this. I just posted about my struggle below… thank you for your words of encouragement to the rest of us here at BR. You are so courageous. You know in your heart that you are doing the right thing, even when doubts still nibble away at you, even when you still have strong feelings for this person. Your courage emboldens me today. I know that I keep up NC today. One day at a time.
My ex broke up with me this past April I had no contact for a few months and than spoke to him thinking we could be friends only to realize that you can’t be friends with someone that doesn’t know how to be a friend. I went again no contact for a few months only to find out a few weeks ago that he is “seeing” a 17 year old girl and he is 38. Finding this out made me revert back to the anxious, upset female I was when he first bropke up with me. Of course he denies dating or seeing a 17 year old he says they are just good friends. I feel like I am broken all over again and any forward movement I had accomplished is completely gone due to finding this out. I am 33 and I know it should make me feel better that him dating a 17 year old just proves how much of a loser he is and how much better off I am, but all i think about is how we were together for 6 years and how didnt i see the fact that i was with someone so disqusting. i feel as though i will never be able to trust another man again after finding all this out. someone said to me so if he was dating someone of age it would be okay- yes it would i am not upset he moved on i am upset that he is such a loser that he would even entertain the thought of seeing a 17 year old.
Moving, I am sorry you feeling this way! IF I knew that my ex dating a 17 years old child, I would lose respect straight away! What a full grown up man have in common with a teenager, “friendship” yeah right. You are 33, brilliant age to meet someone special, who would love and you respect you. PLEASE go NC and try to forget this loser!!! Hugs from me x
This is an amazing, timely post to read this week. I’ve been wanting to go NC on the exUAM/MM for well over six months. I start, and I fail. And I start, and I fail. I am the worst at keeping NC! Each time I fail, I invariably end up feeling terrible, yet I can’t seem to learn. Each time I’ve come here and have complained about the latest misdeed of the exUAM/MM, I know that I would have protected myself from that roller coaster had I kept up with NC. I get so mad at myself for not having the will to cut this man out of my life, and that only compounds the struggle.
While I know that each failure represents that much more of a set-back in my recovering from this man, from this addiction, from my ability to put myself first, I am learning that I also have to be compassionate with myself. I am sure that I am not the only person here who has struggled for going-on-a-year with really implementing NC. Still, its hard to walk that fine line of compassion towards oneself while maintaining the serious intent of breaking the addiction once and for all.
This last round of failure took a toll on my health. The exMM/UAM contacted me to let me know that he was finally leaving his wife, but was moving in with another exOW. When I asked him if he was involved with the exOW, he did his old evasive thing of not answering me. I let that beat me up for days. I stopped sleeping and hardly ate. I’m coming out of this bender (that’s how I think about these periods of broken NC. They are like benders! Its like going to Vegas and maxxing out on booze, cocaine, hookers, and high stakes poker, then waking up naked on the street lying in your own puke. Indulging contact with your Person of Addiction feels just like that). I’m hopeful once again that I can cut him out of my life, especially since the other shoe has dropped. He left his wife, but he did not fulfill my hope and run to me. He ran to someone else, and is going to keep playing the same evasive games with me for as long as I let him.
Ouch, but maybe this time I can stick with it?
@ amanda “I am sure I am not the only person here who has struggled for going-on-a-year with really implementing NC.”
Yes, that would be me, holidays 2011 to
holidays 2012. I said to myself I was NC, counted days, weeks, found Br Jan. 2012. Then Feb. slipped up with Valentine email, ok, back on NC wagon.
Then April, finally had the closure talk, then back on wagon and of course sent him a birthday card in Sept. back on wagon, a few slips. It was FAUX NC.
We are in a club that meets once a week. I thought because I answered one word answers to his salutations I was NC. Dancingqueen straightened me out in Dec. And at the holiday party I had my aha moment with his casual acknowledgement, I thought, I’m really tired of resisting complete NC,it’s still crumb contact and I’ve allowed it. So I sent my final email (last one was last Feb.) saying ignore me. Since then he has been pretty respectful except to come over and wish me a “happy birthday”. I think the reason it is so difficult to totally cut off all hope
with someone we so much loved is that when the relationship falters, fizzles, blows up, evaporates, ends maybe not with a bang but a whimper, we
immediately enter the emotional turmoil of grieving. So for me I spent a year grieving with the phases of denial, bargaining, depression, anger,
just wondering how long it would take to get to the calm of acceptance.
I guess it took that year, because now I will not initiate contact again.
No valentine contact this year.
Mind you, I see him (by my peripheral vision now, no eye contact for now)once
a week. I still need to pound good sense into my head and come to BR. I hope I can resist contact on his birthday next Sept. I already know it will be on a day the club meets..we are
all trying to make progress here. When
you have had intense feelings over time for someone it will take time to wind down.
Good luck with that! Its sobering to know that even with months of NC, each day still feels like a challenge. But, if other readers here can do it, maybe I can, as well. I’m feeling too humbled right now by my last failure to say THIS TIME, I’LL DO IT RIGHT with any confidence, but at least my life in all other departments is rich and rewarding.
I remember someone giving the following dieting advice: “Don’t obsess about the food you must avoid. Instead, allow yourself to indulge in the food which is truly healthy for you!” ie, stop worrying about cutting out sugar, and fill yourself up with lovely broccoli and salads and whole grains. Similarly, I figure if we who struggle with NC can focus on filling our lives with healthy activities, that will help take the aching focus off of how we must stop indulging in our addiction.
Hey Amanda, I responded below and then read your comment again so I have a little more to add, if Nat permits, and you don’t mind. I noticed a few things like when you said “he was finally leaving his wife, but was moving in with another exOW. When I asked him if he was involved with the exOW, he did his old evasive thing of not answering me”. He’s moving in with her. Wouldn’t his actions of moving in with her suggest he is involved, despite his evasive answer? I don’t mean to be snarky or hurt you.
I used the same verbs, “hopeful” and “maybe”. And I went back time and time again. Finally something snapped. I “hope” something snaps for you.
Ha ha, no you aren’t being harsh at all. Of course, they are involved. For a few days, I had hoped that they weren’t. The UAM told me for many months that he and his wife simply couldn’t afford to separate; it had to be done at no additional expense. The OOW lives alone in a huge house which has been in her family for generations, presumably has no family from a prior marriage, and was one of two people (me being the other) who was sympathetic to what he was going through. The UAM had also been telling me as late as 3 weeks ago that the only woman he ever loved and desired was his wife, and all of the cheating he had done was because she was repressed. Fool that I am, I kept holding onto this spotty story for the first few days of hearing the new reality. It took the UAM telling me that in the course of 1 week, he had already introduced his young children to the OOW with huge success, and that they were going to start living there part time, for me to finally see the truth. The UAM had fast forwarded his way into basically another marriage. Also, since I have a PhD in deciphering the UAM’s slippery grasp of honesty, I have learned that when I ask a question, and he evades answering it, the truth is what he wouldn’t want me to hear. I asked if they were involved, and I have barely heard from him since. Relationship insanity all around. I have to say, I am feeling much better about this. Good luck to the OOW with her three new housemates who aren’t going to pay her rent, and to all of the fast forwarding and future faking she’s going to be slammed with.
Thanks for letting me process all of that. I feel less the need to. The fact is that, for all the time that the exMM was with his wife, I foolishly held onto the home that he would offer me more if he ever left the marriage. He’s left the marriage, and the other shoe has dropped… into the OOW’s lap. If not hers, it would have been someone else’s. As hard as it is to process this, I am also relieved that I am finally able to face the truth. Maybe its too early to make this call, but I feel less obsessive and addicted. I feel angry, sad, sobered… but I don’t want to hear from him. I don’t want to expose myself once again to another cycle of Avoidat/Addictive push pull with a very lost man… and with a man whom I have been lost around. All of a sudden, this weekend, projects which I have been putting off for years are calling my name. I feel so much more generous towards the real people in my life. Thanks, people of BR, for being my witness. I know that I have ways to go before I am out of the woods, but perhaps I see a glimmer of light through the trees. Again, I will look back on this latest (and hopefully, last) chapter in the drama as a blessing, the wake up call I needed to move on with my life.
Amanda, you are not alone in this roller coaster. I was with EX AC for 5 years and all these years I tried to break free from him! I never contacted him first, NEVER, but I would always respond to his sweet short messages:( Live and learn. Hope you will stick to NC this time, good luck!
I did manage to go NC & stay that way b4 my now deceased AC died. I feel though there was some sort of unfinished business with us. I could be wrong. Due to my anger at his willfull deception we never spoke again, after I learned he’d reconciled with his ex b4 me, & not told me about this, effectively stringing us both along at the same time (although I was not a fully fledged r.ship & he was more leading me on that this would happen after doing xyz, that is, a stint in rehab to sort out his addiction issues. The deception was easy for him to pull off as we were in different states). Then suddenly, he died. The 1st anniversary of his death was 3 wks ago.
I’ve been so consumed with struggling in my own crisis mode, in other (serious) areas I haven’t had time to grieve the normal way a person would, on such an anniversary. Previous to learning of the deception, I’d held a torch for this person for 17 yrs, since we last broke up, hoping all that time, he’d return one day, with his shit together. So, for 21 years, (including the time of our first involvement) I loved this person. He came back alright, but not with his shit together. He came back & instead almost destroyed me, hence, the NC.
I turned to thoughts of his death two days ago & added that to everything else going on here. My entire world has gone to hell in a handbasket in all areas, due to health issues. I felt very, very down. I’m not sure if this is normal? Logic says though, when someone dies (regardless of their BS), & you lose yr health & career, & like a domino effect next yr fighting to keep yr house, or just for a meal each day, let alone yr medical treatment, none of which you can afford anymore, only a nutcase would be whistling dixie!
Amanda, your post echoed me, and I really honed in to your talk about the addiction. I am in recovery of several addictions, some you have to quit 100% – alcohol, the other you have to learn a healthier way – food. The relationship addiction is almost a combination of the two. You have to go NC with the person, but you have to learn a healthier way to relate with men. BOTH are a road of self exploration and balance. And entail learning to trust your own instincts, intuition and having the like minded support to stick the course and change to recover.
I have been NC with a couple of slips, because he has been relentless, to the point of stalking me. I have not gone back when I broke the NC, it was to say stay away, I’m done and I’m calling the police if you come back here again. I realize unless i change, it will just be a different face but the same set of problems, and it has been. Some worse than others depending on how vulnerable, I was at the time I met him. I have to keep forefront in my mind, heart and soul, that I am a creation of god, and I am good enough just the way I am. That I have within me all the resources some guy has to take care of myself, and be ok. No man has the solutions to my life. A healthy relationship is to enhance my life, not become the center of my life, and I lose myself in the process. That has always left an emptiness in my soul, that I then need to fill up to feel whole. And that has been whatever the addiction of the day is. So thank you, I have had one of those AH-HA epiphany moments, and I’m going to continuing coming back to get my nourishment here, from everyone that posts, and thank you Natalie, for your posts. I’m also going to get involved in a CODA group again. ( codependents anonymous) I wondered why I have been overworking, not eating properly, and not working out and hiking like I usually do the last two months, the same length of time of NC, but I also got a promotion at work, and have immersed myself, conveniently in the new position. So I’m pulling back, and getting back in balance again. thank you for your words. Who he is, and what he does no longer matters. It’s me that matters, It’s me that needs to change, to have a better relationship, first with myself, and then with a man. And I have the tools today to do just that.
Thank you for sharing your story and for sharing your insight. I do truly believe in the the addiction model; in fact, we know that Love Addiction is a valid thing. It can be so reassuring in a way to view this tendency to stay in touch with an Avoidant person as an addiction. It outlines a course of action, and shines the spotlight on how little this compulsion has to do with an actual relationship. On the other hand, the fact that two sentient people are involved in enabling the addiction makes it that much harder to break. A six-pack of beer never calls or texts you and lets you know how much it misses you. You don’t go out and buy a six-pack, worried that someone else will get it, if you don’t. You don’t worry about the six-pack’s feelings if you don’t drink it. When it comes to Love Addiction, you get really confused about the other person’s role. But, I guess that there is a valid parallel here. Let’s say that you are an alcoholic, and your best friend is an alcoholic. Let’s say that you care deeply about your friend, but when you are around him, you always end up getting drunk with each other. Perhaps neither of you are in a good place to be friends, because you can only enable each others’ addiction. With Love Addiction, the issue is the relationship, itself. While the Avoidant person (the AC, the UA person) might not seem as addicted, they are, in their own way. They have nothing to give, yet they still need you in their life, on the periphery. When I have the will to leave the ex-exMM alone for more than a few days, he unfailingly contacts me. He needs me as much as I need him, but neither of us are exercising a healthy need.
Oh Amanda, OUCH. The description of your situation with the exMM was similar to mine, sans leaving his wife for another OW, although that still could happen as anything is possible when involved with a MM. That’s got to sting. However, of course, his behavior with the OOW has nothing to do with you, right? I struggled for an entire year with FAUX NC as he would unfailingly contact me or I’d break down and contact him. I got burned everysingletime I put my hand back in the fire. By the second year, there were still urges but since I was burned to a crisp, I resisted my urges (thanks to Nat and BR) and his contacts. He resorted to snail mail since he was blocked in cyberspace. Natalie referred to him as a cockroach after a nuclear bomb. I’ve established a routine of taking care of me, soothing in a healthier manner, and that seemed to quiet the urges. That and the fact that he simply has nothing to offer. He became like a door-to-door vacuum salesperson trying to sell me the same used vacuum that didn’t work. Like you say, he had nothing to offer but he still wanted me in his life on the periphery. For me, that just got really old. In continuing your analogy with the six pack of beer (made me laugh), by the second year he became like a flat, warm six pack of Budweiser. Use whatever vision works…a cockroach, a broken, used vacuum, salesman, a warm,flat six pack of bud. Natalie has posts on being the OW to the OW. Apparently even being an OW to the OW isn’t unique. I’m sending lots of warm hugs and tons of cyber-strength your way. Oh, and if you want to give me your cell, I’ll reply if contacts you!
Runnergirl, wow to: “He became like a door-to-door vacuum salesperson trying to sell me the same used vacuum that didn’t work”…GOSH, that what I am going to think of if I have another urge to contact ex AC! THANK YOU!!!
This was great Runnergirl. I have had a bit of a setback recently. Haven’t contacted him but have had two really vivid dreams where I contact him. He is, as he would be in RL, ecstatic to hear from me. Then I wake up and am so glad I haven’t really contacted him but am left wondering why? I thought I was nearly over it/him. Maybe it is just the “death throes” of my addiction to him. What really worked for me is your used vacuum cleaner that doesn’t work analogy. He wanted me there as his chief cheerleader but he had nothing to offer, and even his, erm, equipment was faulty. I know he would snap me up back into his life but it would still all be on his terms and I would be back to square one, dying a slow agonising death.
I am cross with myself for thiking of him at all. I wish he would just go away. I haven’t come as far as I had thought and now I am disappointed in myself.
I, too, enjoy the analogy with the used vacuum-cleaner salesman! It made me laugh out loud. I am hoping that now that he’s sucked into fast forwarding his way into a new partnership with the OOW (including making her stepmom to his kids!), he wont “need” me as much and will stop poking around me for an ego stroke. Wishful thinking? If he’s a real narcissist, he’ll probably keep testing me for as long as I will let him, which, yes, sigh, means that its totally on me to keep up NC.
Little Star, Victorious, and Amanda, it was Nat’s Dreamer book that finally got through to me. When he’d come a knocking, it was always the same reality/broken used vacuum and it was the same silly “Pretty Woman” dream on my part that somehow…some day…NOT. Yeah Amanda, this guy must have the brassiest set of brass balls ever. Leaves his wife for an OOW and expects that you’ll still be there. He’s offering you NOT.A.THING. I don’t know if he’s a narcissist but he’ll keep coming back for whatever he can get as long as you allow it. I think that’s why NC is NC. It is up to you. He certainly doesn’t have your best interest in mind. I’m glad you didn’t find my comments harsh. Your situation pissed me off. Sending you all heaps of willpower.
Thanks Runnergirl. I have realized what set me off. It wasn’t obvious at first but I think it is because another ex, from THIRTY years ago has been in contact. This is a guy I dated in college who was so sweet and so nice and so damn sexy. But, he was clearly not over his ex so I finished with him and of course he went back to her. Fast Forward thirty years and he is contacting me out of the blue. I just have this image of him going through his mental roladex/little black book and saying, “yeah, Victorious, she was always good and nice and sweet and always put up with all my shit without complaining. I bet she would do a bit of florencing now I am in the midst of a mid life crisis.” He describes his marital status as “married but temporarily separated.” Erm, that would be married then, and has made various comments that lead me to believe he has had some mind of burnout/breakdown. All these red flags and yet the urge to agree to meet up is so strong. I think it is this that led to the dreams about the recent ex narc. I think my subconscious is screaming at me that I am going to get a similar result if I ignore my BR education. Thanks to everyone for reading and posting. It makes such a difference.
runnergirl: with each passing hour, I feel more and more sobered to the time I have wasted trying to create this realtionship out of nothing. I’m part way through the Fantasy book, and I have also been checking out Love Addiction literature. Howard Halpern’s “How to get over your Addiction to a Person” has been really helpful, even if I don’t buy his outdated psychoanalytic line, whole-hog. I also got one more mini-reality check from the UAM at the end of last week that was so ridiculous, it made me laugh. In response to my very-serious e-mail where I asked him if he was romantically/sexually involved again with the UAM, and where I asserted that we needed to start being honest with each other if we wanted to be friends, I heard nothing for 48 hours, then I got a one-line e-mail from him: “Damn, these women who walk under my office window are so hot, I can’t stand it.” WHHAAAAAAAA? We’ve been talking totally different languages. I’m worrying about our “relationship” and he’s thinking about all of the women he wants to bed now that he isn’t married anymore. This guy is a sad loser, and as I said before, good luck to the OOW with her new instant partner/housemate/family.
Amanda, I agree with what you write. But when one person wants to get sober, they have to change people, places and things. And if the friend wants to get sober, great, you get sober together, if not, you end up walking fromt the friendship because they are a slippery slope. Same as love addiction, if you both want help, you go to couple’s counseling. Problem is, if you are with a narcissist, they don’t go to therapy, they have a personality disorder, and they are like the anti social personality disorder, they can’t feel empathy, they use people, for their own gain. Yep, they need us as much as we need them, water seeks its own level. So you know what the problem is, you are the healthier of the two, and you will leave when you have had enough pain. When there is no longer a payoff, we change. I laugh when you said a 6 pack doesn’t call or text you. LOL I don’t know about that, the brownies on my counter right now are calling my name. Going to have to toss them because I decided to go no sugar. Same as why I don’t have alcohol in the house, I would obsess and think about it until I would talk myself into having a glass of wine, or the brownies! Same as calling the EUM if I thought about him long enough. I think it through, on all counts, and end up not acting on my impulse, then I can pat myself on the back! It feels good to have some control over my life again.
Thanks for this, Emeraldeyez. I know, in my heart, that you are absolutely right. The UAM has made a career out of bouncing from one woman to the next, always with plenty of back-up options in the queue. He doesn’t want to work on himself, nor does he feel like he should. If I were an alcoholic struggling with sobriety, it would be a bad idea to hang out with my drinking buddies. Likewise, its a bad idea for me to expect healthy support from a man who is just as addicted towards codependent love as I am, albeit in his avoidant way. It’s been challenging, as he talks the talk about going to therapy, wanting real love in his life, etc., but then, when it comes down to nuts and bolts, he and I aren’t equipped to give that too each other. We’ve been in the Addict/Avoidant pattern for far too long.
Thank you also for your instruction on thinking it through. If he ignores me, I feel like a fool and I feel like I acted without dignity. If he does reply, he invariably never gives me enough, and I just get angry. if he does get meaty with me, it often is as upsetting as it is immediately gratifying (ie, he tells me he is leaving his wife and moving in with the OOW is juicy, but it just led me to wanting more, more, more information until he shut down). It never leads to anything good. Plus, when I have the urge, I can also meditate on why that urge is there in the first place. Why is the exMM the only man in the world who can make me feel good? Why do I lack the internal validation machinery. I know that if I can emerge from this addiction, I can be proud of myself for being strong, clear-minded, disciplined, and warrior-like. This is a great foundation for building one’s own self-esteem.
Amanda,
My ex AC went to therapy one time with me. This was in July, when he got two counts of Domestice violence for taking the keys out of my car, and leaving me stranded and then becoming abusive to the cop, he got a harassment charge. So we go to therapy, and the therapist, asked him to leave the session, because he became abusive to her. Therapy doesn’t work with a narcissist, because you are an extension of them. And if they think they are treating you ok, what’s the problem??? You have the problem. So it doesn’t work. Any guy that is still married, is not available for a relationship. You hit the nail on the head, learning to validate yourself. They we aren’t so vulnerable to someone who throws a crumb our way. Then you can set boundaries, and say “ouch” when they step on them, and FLUSH them.
One challenging aspect of this. On the surface, the exMM and I communicate to each other in friendly and caring terms. The fabricated story we tell each other and we tell ourselves is that we are friends, and we have been able to put our messy history as cheating lovers (cheating against his soon-to-be-ex-wife) in our past. NC usually breaks when someone initiates a seemingly harmless and friendly message. We let down our guards, and the conversation begins. Before I know it, I once again feel like I am chasing someone evasive: I am initiating more than he is, he is never answering my questions, I have an agenda that he can’t fulfill. Next thing I know, he’s gone again (blowing cold). As far as believing that we can be friends, the writing has been on the wall for a while. Its a damned shame, since, under different circumstances, had we not been inappropriately involved with each other, had I not developed feelings for him, we maybe could have been friends. Still, this is the reason why NC fails between us.
And, admittedly, part of me wants to be more than friends. I’ve read the past BR columns on the fallacy of “being friends”, and I know that I must cop to this. It’s all so internally messy and conflicted for me, even though, on the surface, we supposedly have this smooth friendship. Again, I think that we both, for our own reasons, are pulling the wool over our eyes and trumpet this so-called friendship so we can ignore the complicated past and our respective inabilities to exercise healthy relationships. That being said, I know that I’ve dodged a bullet by avoiding all romantic and sexual contact with him for over a year. I would feel that much worse now. Or, would I? Hard to know.
Amanda, I say a giant MEH to your remorse about the lost opportunity to be friends. Yeah, if it was under different circumstances, no inappropriate involvement, no developing feelings AND IF HE WASN’T SUCH A MASSIVE LYING, CHEATING, FUCKWIT yeah, you might have been BFFs for evah.
I love (and when I say love, I mean, I am incensed by) that your communications start out ‘friendly’ and end in him blowing cold when he’s not willing to reveal exactly the degree of low down dirty fuckery he is perpetrating on everyone involved. Where was he when “How to Make Friends: 101″ was being taught? By the sounds of it, this guy was behind a tree at the back of the playground blowing Ms Ribble the English teacher. I bet she allowed it because she felt sorry for him that he was such an UNSPEAKABLE LOSER. Friendly and caring? Puh-lease. Do you actually think he employs these two concepts out of the goodness of his heart? You don’t think he uses them because he knows this is what draws you in? That he knows you can’t resist the lure of his shitful ‘friendship’?
Instead of lamenting the fact that you two can’t be friends, I would go out and find some who know the meaning of the word. Here’s a hot tip, look for friendships that don’t necessitate crying yourself to sleep at night.
Thank you, Ms. Determined. Part of my resistance to giving him up was that I didn’t want to admit that I was wrong in judging his character. I see that I am. This man is such a pathetic loser. And a liar. And, I’ve given him a pass each and every time, starting with the fact that he presented himself as single on the on-line dating site where we met. It was almost three years ago that this huge lie was revealed to me, and now I am learning the lesson of keeping liars and cheaters around. At first, I was told that it was an open-relationship (not a marriage). Then, I was told that was an open marriage. Then, I learn that the marriage was not open. And, the lies kept coming, and I kept giving him a pass. Its true. If they lie and cheat on their spouses, they lie and cheat to everyone.
Amanda I had the same problem with not accepting I had judged his character wrong. It was so hard. He seemed so sincere at points in the relationship and treated me so well. It is our own ego and validating the whole relationship. It is mind boggling to think that you were with a scumbag all that time. And yes re married men. They lie to everyone even themselves. Keep strong He is no friend but just keeping his foot in the door to mind phuck you and wait for a weak moment from you. He has HIS best interests at heart and with friends like that who needs enemies.
Mine told me he had a 10 year legal separation and they still lived together, and she was a lesbian. AND guess what? none of that was true. A family member told me he was the EUM’s best man when they went to Vegas to renew their vows, 7 years ago. (he’s been divorce two years) AND surprise, she isn’t a lesbian, and they weren’t legally separated, while he was cheating on her. They got divorced because she caught him. They lie and cheat on their spouses, they lie and cheat to everyone!!!
PS I very rarely think of my deceased AC now, & only did a couple of days ago, due to the 1st anniversary of his death. I might have to add not thinking about him (if I can help it, which to date, generally speaking I can ie who wants to soend time thinking about someone who screwed you over?) to by ‘do not do’ list.
It’s hard finding a balance. I need to allow myself to orocess this grief but not overly focus it on him. I’m WAY deep now in a whole other sort of grief re other people & issues, as how he treated me this time around (ie he wasn’t an AC when we were first a couple 20+ yrs ago), was merely a symptom of a theme, which played a huge part of my early life.
This grief, which is for ME, is profound. Despite being ill & not doing much physically, I’ve lost 20kgs in the past 6 mths. This is extraordinary. I’m not normally a super skinny girl. More just average weight, & well proportioned ie busty. Now, I’m literally just fading away before my own eyes. It’s bizarre.
Anyway, like I said, time for me to push for serious medical help. There has to be some out there somewhere.
I would add, let what I am going through be a warning to others. I’m a tough girl. No pushover by a longshot. But what’s happening to me can happen to you too, if you’re not very vigilent & if you don’t heed the warnings, about going NC with AC’s sooner rather than later. I’ve been NC with mine for long time now & I am STILL dealing with the fallout here.
Sorry for what you are going through teach. I know what you mean. I am a tough girl too and no pushover and got caught on a ridiculous roller coaster because I had a hard time with NC. The longer the relationship insanity goes on the harder it is to be free. Hang in there.
Thanks Lilia,
it’s amazing how we get suckered in becasue we value friendship. He just emailed me asking for a date, when I asked him what he meant by date, he appologized that he used the wrong terminology. i think he knows exactly what he’s doing and it angers me. I feel like i am actually dealing with an AC, not just a EU. Anyways, thanks for sharing your story.
Thanks Natalie for another great post. I have been a reader and fan of this site since 2008. You have gotten me through a lot of ups and downs.
Right now I am experiencing a down. Major down. Off and on with a guy since April of 2012. He went back to his ex in June but continued to be around with me (I didn’t realize he was back with the ex but was noticing him being a bit more distant). Throughout the summer we had contact just because we were professional acquaintances.
He and the ex broke up in Sept and he and I started up full force again. I KNEW KNEW KNEW I should have said no and stopped myself. But I am so desperate to find the “one” because I am so tired of being alone. Basically I am one cat short of being the crazy cat lady!!!!! We dated for a month and a half. He practically lived with me…it became very domestic…. He would future fake, introduce me to friends…use the words “we” and “home” when talking about my apartment. Then like typical assclown clockwork, he backed off. Right around his bday.
Long story short he kept telling me we needed to talk and it never happened. So I blew up at him and after he said some hateful words to me (like I never want to talk or see you again, or you are acting like fatal attraction–slight dramatic on his part) we were done. Except when he texted me a few days later and said we owed it to ourselves to have a conversation. But…..it never happened. And I was left hanging and w/out closure (I know, closure “ain’t” all that.
So fast forward two months later…NC but I am staring to feel that urge…exactly what this post is about. I want to break my silence…and for what? Well it doesn’t matter. Because I find out tonight that he is back with his ex.
I feel so used. And I guess I kind of felt like I could have been a rebound, but instead I let myself get bamboozled. I can’t even express how angry I am at him. He didn’t have the balls to tell me himself. If he wants to go back to his ex (and continue to cheat on her like he’s done multiple times) then that’s his business. But FOR THE LOVE be honest with me. Be a MAN and tell me what’s happening.
I broke NC. And I am sorry ladies and gents on this site and Nat too. I had to tell him I knew and that he was a coward. And then I blocked him. I won’t do it again. He makes me physically sick to my stomach.
Shame on me because he fooled me twice.
Sorry for the rant.
And I should clarify…he got back with her right after we were done. The week after he uttered the words “I just don’t know if I can handle the responsibility of coming home every night” in front of me nd some of his friends. Yea…I laid awake next to him that night and was stuck on those words.
Manda sometimes we just have to do the tell off thing. You got it off your chest and now just go NC. No harm no foul
Thanks, Beth D. I agree. I just wish I could be the person that walks away and shuts them out with no problem.
Manda,
You will get to that point, when you can no longer deny the pain he is causing you, and you deserve better. But believe me it won’t be easy and coming here and getting the support will help you, everyone here has been where you are at! and finding and reading and re-reading Natalie’s posts, will help you get through it all. And keep busy and take care of yourself and you will see the days of NC add up.
Thanks Emerldeyez…..I just saw him driving and yep, his gf was with him. I lost it. I have been bawling for 20 min. It’s like I know this guy is a creep…the worst possible kind of person. So why, oh why!? am I expending these emotions and tears on this horrible person.
I am feeling so used. So very used. And I shouldn’t want to be with a cheat like him. So why the tears? I should be thanking God for having dodged yet ANOTHER bullet.
Thanks for support! I do appreciate it.
Manda-
I’ve been there. It feels like you can’t breathe, can’t move, can’t do anything.
The only thing that makes it better is trying to remember how terrible he made/makes you feel. Just know that it’s a matter of time before she feels that too. And eventually he is going to wear out all the people he can run to, and he’ll be left alone and though he won’t say anything he will regret losing you, if you go NC.
Don’t stay stuck on him. “The best revenge is living a fabulous life.” When you read this site imagine all of the women who have been with men who they “loved” or thought were “one of a kind.” They’re not. THEY’RE JUST NOT THAT SPECIAL.
Exes are exes for a reason. If two people break up, that means FOR SURE that they are not right for each other.
I dated a boy for a little over a year. When I met him he had just gotten out of a two year relationship. They broke up once for three months while they dated. We broke up in November, still hung out in December. And then he admits that he’s been hanging out with her again. It’s pathetic really. He’s unable to be alone and do the work of meeting/finding someone new (probably because someone who isn’t already emotionally invested in him will see him for the assclown he is) So he’s back with his ex, and it PISSES me off, but more importantly it makes me laugh. They didn’t work twice already add in a lot more baggage for another relationship and what do you think you’re going to get?
Cry all you need to, but when you’re done crying… delete his number, go for a run, put on some makeup and your best dress and say “Bump him.” He’s just not the special.
I wish you the best. Everyday of focusing on making yourself happy really does add up. I promise. I’ve never been in a darker place than when he left me for her. But less than 2 weeks of NC and I’m starting to see clearly.
Remember it comes in ebbs and flows. Somedays you’ll miss him, but don’t dwell on the good, and remember that someone else out there is going to feed you hummus and make you giggle and before you know it you’ll forget what life with him was like.
Good luck!
KerryKerry…thank you so much for the reply and telling me your story. These guys are infuriating!!
I was definitely doing the “why her and not me” bs after I saw them together but after crying some tears, reading some baggage reclaim and talking w friends I’m at the “he can be her problem now” stage. I was definitely feeling better and had NC with him for about a month and the setback came when I found out they got back together right after we ended things. He’s been deleted and blocked.
Thanks for your kind words and advice. I wish the best to you as well!
KerryKerry. “The best revenge is living a fabulous life.” SO true..
Manda, I’m luck on two counts. He lives across town, so I probably won’t run into him, unless he is stalking me, which he is. So that puts me on the defensive because of fear, and I don’t see well if I don’t have my glasses on, so I won’t see him, unless I recognized his car, and I just don’t look for it.
It’s tears of grief, the loss of a dream. It may have been an illusion, because he’s a creep, but it still hurts. So honor your tears, it’s better to go through the feelings, than eat them, work, them or drink them away. It gets easier, day by day.
Thanks Emerldeyez! Boy did I let the tears flow! I felt better afterwards though. I really did. And I’m back to my old self today…not saying I won’t have my down days..ESP if I run into them. But ultimately, I know I’m better off. I wish we didn’t have to fear the run ins!
Yep, narcs are like a case of food that never quite goes away; they ruin your days, sap your energy and diminish your life.
The hardest thing to accept when exposed to a narcissist is that the relationship was a lie and a web of illusion they built up. Once you truly understand that this person doesn’t have your best interest at heart as painful as that is, it really does break the spell. You awake to the truth and the illusion is broken. It is a process and it takes time but they really are dangerous to your physical and mental health. Feeling sorry and falling for their manipulative pity act will suck you back into the web. Look right past that sheep because you really are dealing with a wolf!
I needed to read this again today. Thanks Beth and Miskwa. My ex narc still has this hold over me. Although I am NC and have been for over three months, I still miss him in a weird way I cannot explain. I think I just miss the way he made me feel in the first three months ( like a goddess) and although I can now see that was not healthy, and that by the end he just treated me like a combination of a performing seal and a doormat, I think I have trouble with the fact it doesn’t make sense. I have to keep telling myself, Victorious, he is a narc, a raging full on malignant narc with every symptom on the scale, and how he operates will NEVER make sense to you. Time to stop wringing my hands and asking Why? Sorry, just having a bad day.
victorious, though mine was not a narc, but just a garden variety EUM/AC, i can relate to missing this person in a weird way.
i no longer wonder why he did what he did (cannot make sense out of nonsense, after all), but i do wonder why i still miss him. what is it about this person that still makes me sob (mostly silently these days). and yes, there you have it… HOW HE MADE ME FEEL in the very beginning.
when our thoughts get stuck on that part, we are splitting, if only for a short moment. it’s no longer betting on potential, as the chips fell where they did. we KNOW rationally that those people are no good, that we deserve better.
it does not make any sense at all. it can’t… if i could get rid of that today with a lobotomy, i would.
We all can relate to the missing. Most of the time with these type of guys when it was good….it was really good. They are the best actors on the planet and often know the exact right things to do and say to get you back. They are also very often charmers like no other. I will always tell my friends the roughest part for me was our times together were great. It was in between that was the problem. The running hot and cold, disappearing, gaslighting…That is why I stopped trying to make sense of it. They are effin crazy and that is it in a nutshell LOL
natashya.. There are days when I say “I miss him” to myself. Other days It doesnt enter my mind. IDK, confusing sometimes to me. But I just ride it thru. Splitting,yes, he had some really good qualities as a person but relationship wise he was EUM. And maybe I was too & that is why it lasted so long.
NC has been my best friend now a days. I will never let him close enough to hurt me again. Sad kinda but so true. Just in one of those moods today. It will pass. Lobotomy time !!!!
beth,
thanks for your comments, cuts through the crap, and nails who they really are. They want something and to them it doesn’t matter who they get it from.
Absolutely Emerldeyez It really is all about them. They will do and say whatever’s necessary to get control over the relationship. Narcs and alot of EUMs are addicted to their mind games and role of puppet master to everyone in their lives. They have a lust for ATTENTION- for SUPPLY- their drug of choice. The more of a challenge you are to them the more they will come on. Then you end up in a Stockholm situation where you end up addicted to the abuser causing you all the pain.
Great analogy. I need to remember that, the stockholm syndrome. We are the supply, we can end up being faceless, to them. Really takes the emotion out of the initial attention that they give to us. And makes me even more in touch with the way they romance, know what to say, it’s all a ploy to reel us in. Huge red flag. Give me a shy, tongue tied guy…… LOL He might be more real, authentic.
We are pawns in their life and boy can they work it when they need to. I call mine master of the game because he knew just what to say to reel me back in. My friend threw out the Stockholm Syndrome to me once regarding her situation and I remember saying damn that’s me too!!!
Mags and Jennifer T
Beings as how I come from a long line of obese people and have to really watch my eating/drinking, my weaknesses are used clothing stores and Native American jewelry. After yesterdays triple whammy about my sustainability center, piss poor faculty job postings in this weeks Chronicle, and more bad news about the value of my home, I went out and bought $400 US of the stuff. Given the price of silver, it may be a good investment. Ironically, most of my pieces are waay too good to wear to anything around here and double ironically, this will insure that this months groceries will be on the skimpy side preventing any excessive eating on my part. Life is weird.
Thanks again Natalie.
I’m wondering if you’ve ever checked out attachment styles? Something typical of an anxious attachment style is someone looking to their mate for comfort, then feeling close then with distance and time looking for reassurance again etc. This urge to look to them for comfort continues EVEN WHEN THEY’RE THE CAUSE OF THE ANXIETY. The impulse doesn’t change. In fact it can get stronger. The more anxious someone feels the more that they want to seek comfort in their mate.
OH I am not resisting anymore I LOVE this new change in me, this power I now have, I feel FANTASTIC.
Sure in the beginning it was difficult as heck, but thats cause of the resistance. Once I forgave and let go it was inner peace for me.
I do not own them, their thoughts, their feelings, their actions.
Their reasons for lying and cheating are not a reflection of my character, but rather of theirs.
I am a wonderful caring person (So are all of you)
and we DESERVE LOVE, CARE, TRUST, and RESPECT!!!
On another note… I was informed that my EUM was asking about me. him and his new girlfriend didn’t work out, I found out that she has some major issues of her own alcohol, drugs, and a very angry ex husband (That’s what I was replaced with)
Anyhow he told a mutual friend how he regrets things now. him and the replacement have been broken up for almost a month.
I said to ‘our’ friend “This is not regret he feels,it’s loneliness.”
May you all get the love you DESERVE!!!!
Amanda. You have to take control. YOU are the one that has to decide what is best for YOU. You don’t allow things, situations, to just happen to you. If the guy is married, WHY are you hanging around? You still would like more than friendship? You are playing a dangerous game. Stop telling yourself you two are “friends” when you are still having serious feelings for him. Cut the ties and go about your business. Find someone who is not already married or has a gf, or is pining away over a lost love. It may be hard as hell to find that person, but it is no harder and certainly no more hopeless than what you are doing now. I know you must have more sense. Use it!
Hey, BR community, this post really hit home, as I needed to go NC with the jerk who promised me the moon and then blew cold. Here’s my question — How do you understand the situation when your so-called partner probably meant as well as he could at the beginning? Rather than being an AC, I’d like to describe him as emotionally promiscuous — fast forwarding and future faking till the cows came home, but actually believing in it when he did it. It’s more like negilgence than anything intentional, more like manslaughter than murder. The lessons I take from it are probably the same as if he were a jerk, though — watch for red flags and bs. Any thoughts about this type of situation?
HHB, what I would say is, you may be right. However, I would guess that he has danced this dance many times before. He KNOWS he cannot deliver. That he FFs and FFs and then blows cold,leaving the latest woman thrashing around in a pit of low self esteem, wondering what the fuck just went down. Therefore, in my humble opinion, they are just as “guilty” as those who “do it” deliberately.
yep, been there, done that. i was in denial for a while there. i also believed that my ex EUMAC (yes, AC is part of it) actually did not promise me the moon for the sake of it. i thought he really did mean it when he asked me to move in with him. i thought he really did mean it when he said i was everything he’d been looking for.
well… had that been truly the case, i would actually be living with him and in a relationship with him. but oh no. he fairly quickly realised he had overpromised himself and overestimated his interest in me. sure, i served well as a temporary emotional airbag, but when i asked for something in return, he ran away.
anybody emotionally healthy does not engage in future faking and fast forwarding. they don’t ask you to move in with them before they’ve actually done the work to make sure they’re ready. so yes, that makes these types FULL BLOWN ASSCLOWNS. they did it to get what they wanted with very little regard about our well being.
these ‘unaware’ assclowns are actually worse than the callous ones who have everything planned out. these ‘unaware’ assclowns often make us sympathetic and apologetic towards them.
it doesn’t matter if it’s manslaughter or premeditated murder. dead is dead. and an AC is an AC.
Hey HHB
Yeah, I think a lot of them really do think they meant it. I’ve been thinking that women who sleep with a guy as soon as possible are doing the same – trying to bypass the awkward get-to-know-you phase, and fast-track into commitment/relationship by effectively making promises they don’t know they can keep (I was one).
And when two of those people get together – eek!
I think it is insecurity and self-esteem issues on both sides, but as Natashya says, their ‘why’ doesn’t matter, that’s something they have to work on. And from what I have observed, they do repeat the same behaviour over and over again, hoping that it’s the woman they are with, and not their behaviour that’s the problem. Sometime they’re going to have to face it, not sure most of them ever do
High Heels. You said he is “fastforwarding and futurefaking until the cows come home”. Seems to me you are making excuses for him until the cows come home. What he intends doesn’t matter. It’s what he DOES and how you feel about it. Looks to me like he is a colossal waste of your precious time. Flush!
Still nothing from him. At least he will have got the message by now. He doesn’t have any friends that I can drop his stuff at. There’s shitloads of it – massive TV,PS3, speakers, tonnes of clothes, personal stuff, stereo, books…I looked into a storage place and it would cost me £60, which I don’t have. Shove it all in my shed and arrange a time with him to collect it? I don’t really have any other options. Friends wouldn’t have the room for it all. There’s a lot. I am looking forward to having nothing further to do with him. It weirds me out that to think that he might be all sorted now, and all his weird, mad, self-destructive, narcissistic traits are going to disappear, he will be wonderful and his new girlfriend and he will be very happy. I took a lot of shit from him, and listened to a lot of stuff.
shyner, i would give that asswipe 24 hours to collect his stuff and then i would start posting it on ebay or craigslist. hey, you might actually be able to recoup some of your losses!
A friend and I are putting all his stuff in a storage place tomorrow. i must say, I am a bit nervous about him coming back but I’ve texted him god knows how many times to tell him this is what I’m doing and he’s never responded. In case he denies ever seeing those texts, I sent one of them to his mate, too. I really, really hope this is the end of the matter and he doesn’t go mental at me for involving his friend, like his has before. His friend didn’t want to be involved but I feel I was left with little choice given that I was being blanked.
Hi all,
Thanks so much for your feedback. This sentence: “they did it to get what they wanted with very little regard about our well being” hit home for me. Absolutely. I keep thinking about how I was going to share some of my 7-y.o. daughter’s writings with him on the last night I was supposed to see him, and my thoughts that we would both enjoy looking at her writings together. He cancelled at the last minute with a half-baked excuse about an ex-GF contacting him and him needing to get his head on straight. Yes, he had very little regard for my well-being, as evidenced by his actions. Flush! Thanks again, fellow BR readers!
@finallygettingit69 thank you so much and anyone else I may have missed that gave me advice. I wasn’t on BR this weekend ,.I was wallowing in my weaknesses and craving him as he sends me text basically that state I got you so I can treat you any kind of way. I have to try again to be strong and better than before .I want a relationship so bad it hurts. So I must LOVE Paris. I don’t see how I’m struggling with this but…Thanks to ALL!
And I love this one too:
“it doesn’t matter if it’s manslaughter or premeditated murder. dead is dead. and an AC is an AC.”
Thanks!
I messed this week I had almost 6 mths of nc and was just starting to feel strong when his talk started again i tried so hard to stay away but his words just messed up my mind and we ended up having sex, this has been going on for yrs I don’t feel like I have any energy anymore I’m just an empty shell walking around please someone please help me.
Sarah we beat ourselves up over this and I did the same thing once after 6 months NC. I didn’t sleep with him but I kissed him and screwed myself up so bad just by that. I went right back to NC and he was totally nuts over it but I knew I had to do it. I was dangerously close to getting back in the web. I messed up two more times by talking to him but no more. Keep coming here, take your energy back!!!! You can do it!
Sarah, after 6 mos. NC, Im sure you feel bad, but ya gotta let it go. It doesn’t matter now, just please try to move yourself forward. Go to a movie, buy all the stuff you need to do a facial or manicure, go for a long walk or begin journaling your feelings. Better yet, call a friend if you have one available and do something different. Make a vow to yourself you will not talk about him and everytime you think of him, flush him down an imaginary toilet. He “started his talk again” because you were listening. Get strong, girl–go back and read Natalie’s older articles, do everything in your power to erase him from your life. You are not an empty shell, you are a loving vessel and able to fill up your life with good things if you’ll give it a try. I know good things will follow if you do, and best of luck knowing many of us on BR are pulling for you!!
I just had to put this up as I know that a lot of you go through this and coincidentally this came up on my Pandora as I was walking to work. Christina Perri, Jar of Hearts:
I know I can’t take one more step towards you
Cause all that’s waiting is regret
And don’t you know I’m not your ghost anymore
You lost the love I loved the most
I learned to live half alive
And now you want me one more time…
And who do you think you are
Running around leaving scars
Collecting your jar of hearts
And tearing love apart,
You’re gonna catch a cold
From the ice inside your soul
So don’t come back for me.
Who do you think you are?
I hear you’re asking all around
If I am anywhere to be found
But I have grown too strong
To ever fall back in your arms
And I’ve learned to live half alive
And now you want me one more time
And who do you think you are
Running around leaving scars
Collecting your jar of hearts,
And tearing love apart
You’re gonna catch a cold
From the ice inside your soul
Don’t come back for me
Who do you think you are?
It took so long just to feel alright
Remember how to put back the light in my eyes
I wish I had missed the first time that we kissed
Cause you broke all your promises
And now you’re back
You don’t get to get me back
And who do you think you are
Running around leaving scars
Collecting your jar of heart
And tearing love apart
You’re gonna catch a cold
From the ice inside your soul
So don’t come back for me
Don’t come back at all!
And who do you think you are
Running around leaving scars
Collecting your jar of hearts
And tearing love apart
You’re gonna catch a cold
From the ice inside your soul
Don’t come back for me
Don’t come back at all
Who do you think you are?
Who do you think you are?
Who do you think you are?
I LOVE this and sing it all the time!! It really does remind me of ex narc, and that feeling that I was living half alive when we first split. The good news is that with NC and time, the pain DOES lessen and a recovery is truly possible. I like the video for this too. At the end she steps over the body of the ex and walks off on her way….
Boy is this spot on. Thanks Skadia. Collecting a jar of hearts seems like a perfect analogy for next week and for every week. Love when she steps over the ex. Who the eff do they think they are? That’s one recovered FBG! It’s funny how so many, from musicians (all kinds) to artists to brilliant authors like Nat as well as screen writers, write about the same phenomenon. I’m not feeling so alone or like such an idiot. Shit happens.
Omg I love this!!! I never saw the video. I have to check out and yes totally reminds me of my ex narc
very powerful! Watched the video!
This is my first time posting here. I’ve been reading for a while now. Its a long story,
My boyfriend (of nine months) told me on New Years Eve, that he had visited a sex worker, after the last time we spent together. He did this, because he was angry that I had made plans to go out with friends . He did not tell me about being angry at the time. He only told me about the sex worker, because we were having an argument (about me insisting on contraception, he said it made me like a prostitute)
It was a pretty tumultuous relationship. I was very very infatuated. He frequently withhekd affection, and expressed uncertainty over how he felt about me. Occasionally, usually when I expressed doubts about the relationship, he would act extremely loving, and talk about long term plans.
For 3 weeks after the break up, I was subject to an intense barrage of texts. These varied wildly, from professing that I deserved to die alone, to claiming to love and miss me, to telling me I had a big nose (!). At one stage, he talked about getting counselling, to help solve our issues. He also asked to meet me, and told me he loved me. However, when I tried to express how angry and hurt I was about the sex worker, he walked away. The next day, he expressed surprise that I was still hung up on the relationship, and told me that I really needed to let go, and stop clinging to the past.
The messages stopped two weeks ago .Im trying so hard not to contact him, but broke NC on Thursday, where I sent him a text, saying how much I missed him, and would like to work things out. I haven’t heard back from him. I’m pretty sure he has found himself someone else.
I’m not stupid. I KNOW it was a TERRIBLE relationship. I know there is NO WAY that getting back in touch with him would do anything, other than prolong my agony. Its GOOD that he is not replying to me. But, I feel terrible. I cry every day. like many other people here, I really felt he was the one for me. He was like my mirror, he reflected a lot of the (good and bad) parts of my own personality.
I’m doing NC, but its SO hard. I know his phone number by heart, so deleting it doesnt help. Just today, I wrote out 3 different texts. Each time, I deleted them before I sent them. But, it only takes a minute of weakness to let one slip through.
Thanks to anyone who bothers reading all of this. Just typing it out helps.
Geekgirl The important thing is that you know he is no good and you know that you need to go NC. He sounds like a total nightmare POS Take it a day at a time, keep busy, and trust me it really does get better. Remember how bad it felt when he didn’t answer you because I am sure that had to hurt. Take back control of your life and keep reading BR It really does help keep you strong.
geekgirl
I’m sure that your nose is lovely, and this bloke sounds like the git to end all gits.
Well done for going NC, but you MUST stick to it. You don’t want to get sucked back into his alternate-dimension reality, where his behaviour is normal, girlfriends aren’t allowed to get annoyed about your use of prostitutes, infidelity is an acceptable way to deal with minor annoyances, safe sex is indescribably antisocial and nobody ought to notice that you change your perspective of the world twenty times a minute.
That is not a world that you want to live in, and you do NOT want to be the mirror image of this bloke – he sounds super nasty.
If it helps any, I worked out eventually that I wasn’t upset because I really really loved the AC, I was upset because he’d been horrible and deeply uncaring towards me and when people are horrible and deeply uncaring towards you then it hurts a lot.
The desperation that you feel to contact him again is more likely to be your brain not wanting to accept the reality of his deeply horrible behaviour, and instead trying to salvage something that will allow you to avoid the reality.
Unfortunately, the reality (afaics) is that a) he is a MANKY EXCUSE FOR A HUMAN BEING and b) he has been horrible to you. And the bother with reality is that you can’t avoid it indefinitely – even when both of you collude to cover it up it’ll pop out sooner or later and hurt more when it does.
So sit tight, look after yourself, do REALLY nice things that you want to do and keep your distance from this horrible man. He sounds as though he ought to have yellow police tape wrapped all around him.
Geek
Delete the no. You will forget it eventually.
There is something seriously wrong with this man. He is not the one for you. I would laugh at that if I didn,t feel for you.
You,re already doing better than those poor women who would overlook the prostitute and wouldn’t insist on a condom. But there is still hope for those women and there is for you. You can do this.
Grace I have to say I remember when I came on BR right after my break up when my ex was trying to get me back and I was in a total state of confusion. I was still in the “fog” although I somehow was staying strong but not with NC. I can’t remember the exact post I made but you told me to FLUSH…Damn girl I should have listened to you. I had a few more years of post break up mind phukery that could have been avoided. Listen to Grace geek! She knows what she is talking about!
Geek,
Welcome to this site, it has offered all of us a place to vent, sort stuff out, get support, in an effort to make sense out of the insanity we have gone through being in a relationship with a man who looks at a woman as a means to a selfish end. There are no true feelings, they are master manipulators, and when you don’t go along with their program, they unleash their nastiness in any way to put you down. That is the true trait of a narcissist. I agree with yoghurt, beth and grace. It’s a process of letting go of the fantasy, the illusion we bought into and coming to terms with the reality. It’s hard to think that there are people out there that just use people, and have no conscious, no empathy, for what they are doing to someone else. But there are. NC is the beginning, and probably was the hardest thig I could do. But then I could really let my mind absorb who my AC really was. And to see how I had become a victim, and wanted to take my life back. So keep coming back!
Well said Emerldeyez, “When you don’t go along with their program, they unleash their nastiness in any way to put you down”.
I decided to go NC with my ex unavailable assclown (yes he was both)…when I broke up with my him for not finalizing his divorce after being separated for half a decade, he participated in an orgy with his harem, who had interfered with our relationship from the very beginning, and he also signed me up for a dating website and created a fake profile for me stating I was overweight and a lesbian. (keep in mind hes almost 40!)
All it did was cement my decision to have no contact with him and to boot him from my life permanently. Good riddance douchebag!
Wow, that’s a new one for the hall of shame AC shit maneuvers I’ve seen here. How terrible. Is that even legal? Be thankful it’s over with him. A future with him would of been a soul sucking misery. Leave him in the gutter with his harem.