just to say Lynn….You have enough evidence don’t dig for more, there is dirt enough. No Contact, get your life and track, love yourself and don’t give up on love.

De

with love

That is scary. That tells me you believe the fairy tale, that if you love them more, if you find the magic trick, or say the right thing, that they will change.

The very few times it does happen, as Tulipa points out, you still lose. You either take charge of them (disrespecting their capability and their role in your relationship) and manipulate or trick or hurt (assault) them to ‘give them a shot’, or won’t be able to believe or trust that the change is real, if you weren’t the cause of the change.

If you caused the change, and they turned around and found character, and respect, and realized the pain they had been causing, they would have learned that they couldn’t make a good relationship with you - since you had established a relationship of disrespect. Or, they might be embarrassed or ashamed of their past, and need time on their own to heal. Without you.

While it is possible that you could turn a few guys around, you would be sending them on to another woman in every case. And you would be developing a capacity to hurt people. You would be manipulating and deceiving people, ‘for their own good’.

How many times, growing up, did that phrase, “for your own good,” endear you to the one using it?

This is why the No Contact Rule is so brilliant. Cutting off all contact, in every form, with no explanation, establishes a shield of time and separation. The NC Rule allows you to begin healing and letting go of anxiety and ties to the EUM. Instead of wasting valuable time when you might be healing, planning and thinking about and writing about ways to get even or to teach a lesson or to get back at the guy - ties you closer to him. Makes that much more work for you to do to let go, and delays you finding peace with yourself.

Blessed be!

but it doesn’t change the dreaming.. wishing and hoping…
sigh.

Steve was obviously bad news. I ended up with him out of desperation. I was desperate to go to this party and he invited me. This was after two months of his pursuing me. The fact I ended up with him out of desperation scares me.
I could become that desperate again

Thing is, just like NML says is often the case… I am emotionally unavailable myself. I have some serious issues. I have a Platonic BF of 15 years, Alan (who loves me) in the background who has my loyalty. I was (am) also seeing another guy besides Alan. And this other guy is another long term thing too, 10 years now we been going on.

Perfect Anne

Thank you very much for your supportive comments I always enjoy your posts

Regarding my wish for karma to strike Steve:

There is a book called “Checkmate”. It is written by Mark Crusher It is a book advising women how how to avoid being played. It was written by a former player and bad boy. Here is the link to Amazon if you want to check it out

http://www.amazon.com/Checkmate-Games-Mark-D-Crutcher/dp/1929642504

What happened to him is the ONE women he actually did love stood him up at the altar and in front of everyone! Then the very same day she married somone else! This forced him to look inside himself

It was then the player stopped playing. He was in incredible pain and realized how he was making the others feel. He wrote that as much pain as he was in at the moment, he realized it was nothing compared to what he had done to all the women who had loved him.

That is when he gave his life to God and stopped his ways. He also looked into himself and addressed his issues.

Sometimes these guys need a shot of what they dish out to realize what they are
doing is wrong.

But I don’t really pray that. I wrote it , deep down I hope it, but I don’t actually pray it I think if I prayed anything, it would be for me to find someone to make me happy. I’d like to fall in love forever.

I also think you’re right about Fallback girls being more inclined to want to change and get healthier. EUMs are at a different level of unavailability and many times I don’t think they even see the need to change.

For me, much of the disharmony and hurt starts with disrespect. Deceit, lies, manipulation - these all start with disrespect. You cannot respect yourself and lie to someone; lies harm your self, they make the next lie easier, and let you lie to yourself about what is true, and what is harmful.

Respect is hard to do. All the good character ‘virtues’ are - respect, honesty, discipline, honor, nurture, compassion, diligence, responsibility, loyalty, etc. In a good relationship each of us grows - those growing in each other’s regard, and all those that they interact with. And that happy ‘pie in the sky’ fairy tale does happen, to many people. But not when one is manipulating the other, or deceiving. Or disrespectful.

Our parents are responsible for training us to be reasonable people in society. They correct our mistakes, they guide us from bad choices. But many people fail to distinguish that correcting and guiding others is a responsibility of parents - and disrespect toward peers. When someone manipulates or deceives someone ‘for their own good’ or for convenience, they are abusing parenting skills. And partaking in a relationship that puts them in the ‘mommy’ position, and those around them in the role of ‘ignorant child that still hasn’t learned to behave.’ And there is no respect for you in such a relationship.

What to do? Consider respect, and what it could mean in your life, in the choices you make about everything from what to eat to who to contact - and what to say. Gossip is one version of disrespect - what needs to be said about someone, that isn’t there and isn’t said to them? And if you respect them, and the choices they make, and you aren’t their mommy responsible for raising them - what really needs to be said? Consider respect in terms of the people around you. Do you respect and admire the people around you for their character? Do you choose to spend time with respectful people, and learn by their examples of good choices?

Many people find counseling, or talking to a pastor, to be very helpful in sorting out issues and values. An experienced, respectful guide can be a wonderful example, and can help you learn to help yourself. As you point out , launching toward ‘the light’ can be bewildering until you have ‘found it’ (- if what you found was ‘it’..) Trusted guidance can be a lot of help.

—

shootingstar67 - You are expressing a lot of anger to those around you. Such anger is usually related to fear of facing our own problems. You nor I can ever benefit from anyone ever experiencing pain, or hardship. Certainly, having his next woman cause him hurt or harm is bad for her, and harms her judgment and values and ability to enjoy life. But I am not his or her parent, and so I am not responsible for either of their behavior, nor am I responsible for making them behave. And you aren’t either.

Once you let your anger go, you can focus on why you thought he was a reasonable date in the first place - what made you notice him, accept his opening dialogue, discover what you wanted to gain from being with him. Because there was a reason this disrespectful person found you a willing partner. You could have glanced at him and thought, “Wow, that looks like bad news.” But why didn’t you? And you can consider what warning flags that might have warned you about his bad behavior did you dismiss and ignore.

Anger, and denial, are normal parts of the grieving process when we lose someone important in our lives. But we need to keep the anger and denial under control, or they can take control of our lives. And let to roam freely, the anger and denial can cause harm to others that we wouldn’t have wished to happen.

You keep hoping that the healing will come from him and his love, rather than gaining your own strength and staying away from someone who isn’t good for you.

It’s a learning process. Self-esteem grows slowly as you see what you have done as a fallback woman and what he has done as a EUM, and then change becomes clear inside of you.

You’ll get off the roller-coaster on your own when your heart and brain are in synch. Seeing clearly is everything, refusing to lie to yourself, or to let someone else lie to you.

Shootingstar : glad that you see this new guy is Steve all over again. Stay cold turkey. NO CONTACT really does work !

Valerie probably WILL treat her the way you hope she does in your prayers. I can understand your desire to have him treated like he treated you.

Keep focusing on you , and getting and staying clear . You will not care about either on them then - you’ll just be relieved you’re making decisions and choices that work for you and support you, feeling balanced and at peace inside

Wendy : Very good awrenesses ! Glad that you are in a relationship with a nice man now. Believe in yourself, and it is so wonderful that you get it now. NML has been an enormous help to everyone with this site !

Sheila : Thank you !

Angela : I’ve been in the space where it sounds liek you are. Keep reading here, and DEFINITELY buy - and read - the entire e-book.

It really helps clear up so much of the confusion. You change what you believe about yourself when you are seeing what you are doing and why it isn’t working. When you begin to have healthy boundaries out of self-esteem, it all starts to shift.

Anything new will be outside of your comfort zone at first - but then it gradually becomes VERY comfortable when you see that you have avoided pain and taken care of yourself and you like it !

Genuinely,
Loving Annie