Those are good questions. I see the answers above…

I see him described in these words from NML..

” The guys with less integrity and conscience say “I’ve shown her the way I am and/or told her the way the land lies and she just doesn’t want to accept it so I am free to do what I want and if she gets burnt along the way, that’s not my problem…..”

and I see you in your own words here…
“I stayed in our relationship, despite knowing it, because the little caring and affection I did get…the crumbs…seemed good enough.”

and Hey, maybe don’t do that again ! cause maybe you have seen that what seemed good enough is in no way good enough.

Also, what I learned from he EUM experience…If its confusing it’s probably EUM territory. Respectfully decline to get involved and don’t look back.

My EUM and I broke up 2 weeks ago…but this after almost 2 weeks of not talking to me, not returning my calls, leaving me in the dark as to what was happening (hoping I’d be so pissed off, that I’d just leave him). He broke up with me, saying he’s not ready for a relationship, that he had been this way all along, and he’s told me so (this is true). I stayed in our relationship, despite knowing it, because the little caring and affection I did get…the crumbs…seemed good enough.

He has really been up front with me about the relationship and how he’s felt about it, he has not lied or cheated, he never said I love you to get his way, so from that perspective he wasn’t an EUM. But he was an EUM because he didn’t know how to communicate very well and would get angry and swear or make snyde remarks about me, he didn’t keep his word, he would not call me for 1-8 days when he was angry and has left me hanging.

Recently about a week ago, I saw him very closely hug a woman twice in a span of 5 minutes and I’ve never seen him do that. I asked him about an hour later whether he liked this woman, and he said yes. He went on to say that if it weren’t for her working with him, he would have asked her out already. I was hurt…We hadn’t been broken up long and he was already wanting to ask someone out?? This proceeded to the demise of “us”. He was angry over feeling I was accusing him of doing something when he hadn’t done anything (the potential of asking her out if he hadn’t been working with her)

I asked when he stopped having feelings for me, then he got really upset saying he didn’t want to talk about us every again…we were through 2 weeks ago. When I didn’t let it go, because I wanted to know, he became more destructive. Well while I reallize it was my issue for wanting to discuss things, I was far from being bitchy…but he had had enough of talking and that was it…I was pushing it…he was hating me, that we won’t be talking for a very long time, that I was being a bitch, and then…proceeded to take pictures of me while I was hurting to remind him of that moment and why he will never call me again.

So here I sit…hurt over it. Did he do anything wrong? In some ways no. He had been honest about where this relationship was not going before. And now he was entitled to like someone and start to date if he wants to. Where I went wrong was not believing his reality of not being invested in the relationship like I was. Where I went wrong, was not respecting his need or request for me to leave and to stop talking about us. Where he went wrong was being frustrated to the point of not knowing how to handle a delicate situation, and instead became destructive and hurtful and threatening not to talk to me again.

At first, weeks back I thought he was the classic EUM. But now I’m not so sure. Part of it was my provoking. He has been honest with me. And where I have not found the courage to leave him when I really should have had the backbone to do so, he is the one saying we shouldn’t be talking for a while until it doesn’t matter whether he is with someone or I won’t react if he kisses someone.

So is he an EUM? I don’t know anymore… and how much of it is me?

I surely hope you have a good heart to heart chat with H, every couple of months or so, about how you will jerk him up short by a handful of curlies any time he pulls the passive aggressive nonsense about anything. Respect is cumulative. Passive-aggressive is a corrosive bad habit, harming everyone involved.

Keep him honest.

I am going to the Middle East tomorrow – in the past, with the circumstances of this trip, I’d have been kind of wondering “So … he’s clearly interested … hmmm I wonder if …” and already betting into it. I am going with open eyes, ladies, thanks to the wonderful women who come and go here over time and who open up and let us share. No betting tomorrow!

Oh, I’m wondering this too. I’m NC but ruminate about it constantly. I can’t understand how someone can purposefully uses someone, knowing that it will cause them pain, but not caring because their needs will be met.

I burn with shame when I think about how in the end my EUM told me he was only with me to get over his ex, that there was never the possibility of anything between us, and I was helping him move forward because I was the exact opposite of her. I hadn’t known about her existence until this final dark moment (note to self: always ask about ex’s early on.)

Why, oh why, didn’t he tell me this when I met him? And why didn’t I spot his insincerity immediately? Instead he saw me every day, bombarded me with contact, and made me feel special, special, special. I thought that he genuinely liked me. I had no idea he was frantically trying to block out someone else, nor that he was still seeing her regularly, and taking me to all the places where her friends or family would see ‘us.’ I found out we even met for a date outside the shop she works in. Oh my god.

He sneered with contempt once right after he’d slept with me. He talked about his ex, and how “crazy” she was, and I tried to be understanding. Granted it wasn’t the right reaction on my part, but I was startled. But his look of contempt for me is seared into my mind, even more so because the problems she had I had too, yet I was laying there naked next to him and he was telling me I didn’t understand them and looking at me with utter dislike on his face. Then he adjusted his expression and tried to laugh it off, but I felt so ill, so very ill.

Unfortunately I rationalised it that he was hurt, and hurting, so slept with him a few more times after be brought me flowers and told me how soft and gentle I am. But then I realised all the ‘friends’ he’d been talking about constantly were really his ex, and when he was waxing lyrical about how he was going to start spending less time with her because he now saw her like a little sister, I just wanted to run. So I did.

In hindsight I can see that I was very lonely, and I’m ashamed to say, dazzled by his good looks (he looked so very much like my first love.) I’ve since learned to look at actions and not listen to words, but I still can’t fathom as to why someone would purposefully use another person. The strangest thing is, he’s quite active in the creative community and all over the internet there are references to him being “the nicest guy.” Maybe he is, but just not when he’s hurting? I don’t know. I feel like somehow I caused this, if only I’d been more beautiful, interesting, cooler, compassionate, he would have appreciated ME.

We just got back together and had an arguement, NML IS RIGHT, THEY NEVER CHANGED!!! I need to read Natalie’s book again and again:-( to clear my naive head!!!

So me and my exEUM decided to meet, he was begging me to meet him and invited me to his place (no caferia or restaurant, no talks about future etc, straight to his place, and me agreed to go there!) I asked him if he can pick me up or book a taxi for me…He answered; “Why dont you just take a tube?” Maybe it is nothing, but it made me so angry not because of tube, but how easy for him to manipulate me and I am like a zombi ready to follow his instructions, what to take and what to do and where to go…ENOUGHT IS ENOUGH!!!

@Sweetie187, I am so sorry…it’s his lost, not yours, we dont need ACs like that!!! I can understand, how you feel, it always answers: “Why her? NOT me?” I am glad that we are here, to help each other and encourage each other to do our best!!!

This site is AMAZING and I can’t express in words how it is helping me. It is a Godsend!! Thanks to NML all of you. I have been reading for quite some time and my heart goes out to everyone in our situation. I haven’t shared my story yet however, I felt compelled to share as much positive input as I can because you never know where someone’s source of strength may come from even it’s just a word of encouragement!

We don’t choose how or when we will die, but we do decide how we will live. We have to forgive ourselves for frequent drifting and continue reaching out to each other for help to see clearly the best path for us.

If a part of your past continues to haunt you and rob you of your joy, forgive. We know we can not undo the past, but with knowledge and understanding, we can let go by forgiving ourselves and everyone else that has hurt us. It is so important that we learn to forgive. You can never be happy with anger or bitterness in your heart.

No one has the power to take your happiness or keep you from being happy and at peace unless you allow it. We have to remember that we are sustained and supported by the love of God for us who wants only for our safety and goodness and to love yourself as God loves you, you must end all low self esteem behavior or it will become a way of life. May we always believe in our worth.

It’s been a long time since I commented. I know first hand how it with these types of relationships, giving them ‘the benefit of the doubt’ over and over and over again. Ask yourselves this: would you give your best girl mate or someone you weren’t sexually involved with so many chances? Probably not. Be strong, stand up for yourself and let that non relationship go. Why do you want to convince a sh*thead that you’re good for him? Let it go.

I know personally what I’m talking about as I felt/hoped that things would get better. Things can only get better if BOTh parties are interested in taking the relationship forward. You alone can’t do it!

@Sweetie, you’re a woman first and a professional after. What concerns me is that you texted him that it was ‘her or you.’ He has made his choice (her) and as painful as it is, let it go. Grieve. But let it go. Stop fighting for this relationship that is only causing you distress. You can do it. *Hugs*

Liberty Belle, formerly known as Cynnie as I’m finally free!

@Meant to be Happy wrote:
Finally free –“If you end it; and they never call; you are in disbelief.” So true. I broke up with this man (several times) and yet I *still* can’t believe that he’s not calling, emailing, wanting me back.

@Meant to be happy – my (((((hugs for you!!!I)))) I can understand how you feel, mine is opposite keeps contacting me but I dont feel better…I WISH he never contacted me, as it will be easy for me to move on (unfortunately, I cant change my phone number)…I was on NC for three weeks, and went to holiday and left my phone at home..It was great, I didnt think about him much…When I returned and checked my phone, I received few messages from exEUM, saying that HE IS thinking about me…and what I DO??? I ANSWERED HIM! Now he wants to meet me and me, came back to square one:-( and ready to be a doormat again even he clearly told me one month ago that he doesnt want to be in commited relationship….