Invariably when we find ourselves in a situation where we won’t let go of a poor relationship, there’s a bit of illusion holding going on. We’re either wanting him to be the man we thought he was or trying to get him to be the man we thought he could be, if only a number of factors happened to help it along. Part of the reason why so much time can pass is because in order for us to dig our heels in, we end up distancing ourselves from the reality of the relationship and him, and even our own behaviour, and we put our own spin on it, projecting the cosier illusion of things and essentially living in denial.
The trouble is this:
It’s very easy to say that you love someone and that you’re trying your best to make things work when you’ve chosen to be with someone who you know isn’t capable of reciprocating.
It’s very easy to avoid making real change, making decisions, and examining what part you are playing in the relationship when you avoid the reality by holding on to the illusion of him which also creates a false, illusionary relationship based on non existent foundations.
How can you even start to work on issues if you’re not in the real world?
How can you know whether what you’re in is good or bad when you won’t get real and you make up whatever you want,to fill the gap?
If you’re projecting or stuck in the past, how can you have or get perspective?
When you live in fear and choose men that reflect the negative things you believe about yourself, love, and relationships, which then creates self-fulfilling prophecies that let you keep your pattern and cater to your fears, you’ll find yourself in relationships that whilst drama filled and taxing at the best of times, they allow you to not have to fully engage yourself.
You know how these relationships will play out as often you choose same guy, different package.
You could be trying to forge a relationship with the type of man you profess to want but instead you try to fit a square peg in a round hole and suffer with Betting on Potential and I Can Change Him syndrome.
You could let go instead of waiting for him to be the one to finalise things, but instead you stay and end up suffering.
You could be emotionally engaging with someone who actually wants to engage on a habitual basis, not just when he’s in need of a shag, an ego stroke, or a shoulder to lean on.
But instead…you opt to engage with someone who is an emotional flip flapper, sometimes or even often, lacking in empathy, or is even just emotionally vacant. It’s a bit like trying to get water out of a dry well – you keep sending the bucket down into black hole of emotion hoping for some drops to be in the bucket, but it keeps coming back dry. So you send the bucket down again….
I’ve asked before why do we keep choosing poor relationships even though it hurts?
Well aside from relationship insanity which has us choosing the same experience again and again but expecting a different result this time, there’s an element of emotional laziness.
You may feel like you’re expending a whole lot of emotion but considering that you often know what you’re going to get back, making it a waste of your energy, you are being emotionally lazy because rather than look a little closer to home, address your own issues, adapt and start choosing better partners, you take the ‘easier’ route of following the pattern that you know, which yields the same experiences, which causes you more pain and drama.
But this pain and drama that you experience is not as bad as the fear that you have of putting yourself out there with real opportunities.
When you don’t believe in yourself and have internalised many of your relationship experiences to end up believing that you’re ‘not good enough’ and unworthy, you become afraid of being with someone halfway decent in the fear that they will see the things that you see, or even find more flaws.
So you choose someone like Mr Unavailable’s and assclowns who keep you in your emotional comfort zone – emotional laziness.
Don’t get me wrong – it’s uncomfortable with these men but it’s a familiar uncomfortable and it’s not as uncomfortable as stepping outside of this comfort zone would be and treading into an unknown.
The drama, ambiguity, confusion, outrage, disappointment, highs, lows, ‘fireworks’, ‘passion’, pain, lies, deceit and the whole kit and kaboodle are familiar. The fact that you’ve had poor experiences but haven’t strayed too far from your ideas about compatibility, type, and ‘common’ interests suggests that even though you aren’t happy, the fear of getting real is still bigger than anything else you’ve experienced.
You can attach whatever meaning you want to his behaviour and your relationship, and even your own behaviour, but it doesn’t change the fact that you’re struggling to let go of a relationship that doesn’t actually exist.
Your relationship and your perception of him is not rooted in reality so you’re not truly risking yourself.
I know from own personal experience and those of many women I have corresponded with and the comments on this site that it is very easy to say you want a different experience and it’s very easy to focus on him, but it’s not so easy to actually opt for the different experience and focus on ourselves.
But you have to, because if you don’t, years will go by like sand through your fingers and you will suddenly start getting jolts that force you to look at the reality. Better for it to be sooner rather than later so you can start living your life now, and engaging with people who will actually engage back and reciprocate rather than have you jumping through constantly shifting hoops to ‘win’ them.
Get active on you and discourage yourself from choosing what appears to be the easier yet painful option that always yields the same results.
Your thoughts? Do you think you’re emotionally lazy?
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{ 108 comments }
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES brilliant post. BRILLIANT.
It’s possibly quite an affront to be accused of emotional laziness when you’re the one who is so giving but … yeah. We are as a rule.
I had someone tell me that I carry my hurts like some sort of leperous comfort blanket which was an eye opener. Ewww … who wants comfort from something so gravely DISGUSTING?
Food for thought. Isn’t it much better to burn the wreched thing and get a nice clean new one which we like and which protects us?
Thanks for this Natalie.
Yes.
Yes, I have been emotionally lazy. It’s interesting though…on this website, I kept hearing that we need to focus on ourselves, and I kept thinking that we needed to focus on ourselves in a positive way – like, love ourselves, focus on our lives, get hobbies, friends, become this fit-for-tv feminine product commercial or something. Happy, happy, love, love – but still no substance. And I just wasn’t gettin HOW to do that. Lazy! We hear what we want to hear, and we keep subscribing to these illusions – whether they’re about him or about us. But now I realize that focussing on ourselves is the more difficult thing to do. It means FIRST, looking at our issues and our actual lives, and grieving things in our past and present (including ALL of our crutches – including HIM), and then finally finding the strength to stand on our own feet and THEN building a life of self-love, esteem, and happiness. You can’t just JUMP to the love, esteem and happiness part no matter how we may want to! Like you just can’t JUMP to a happy, healthy relationship with an intrinsically flawed AC.
Thanks for this post. I think it is fantastic!
Thanks Natalie,
I used to be emotionally lazy… afraid to move away from what I was familiar with and just like you said YEARS flew by wasted on uworthy men. It wasn’t until I dealt with my own hurts and pains and scars and learn to start truly loving myself and setting real boundaries and sticking to them did I realize how much of me was wasting away. I had to stop it because I was tired of being miserable and I had to do the work to change. I’ve seen so many women in my family, my own mother in fact, stay in emotionally empty relationships all their lives and then they are 60 years old and feel trapped, old, used up, drained, betrayed and alone b/c they spent there whole lives with men who never gave them the love, attention and security they so much wanted. But they stayed b/c that is how they were raised or they had kids or they didn’t work or they hoped he would do better soon, right after the umpteenth argument about the same thing,or some other excuse to not really make a move and decide to be happy. So sad, because these are some fierce women in every other aspect of their lives. Strong and bright yet with men they loose there way.
That’s why I love this site so much. I’ve learned so much from these women and from NML and the women on this site. I really love you all. You help to keep me focused and I thank you! Life is work and the first step starts with you…it’s hard but the rewards are amazing and we are all worth it, aren’t we?
“But now I realize that focussing on ourselves is the more difficult thing to do. It means FIRST, looking at our issues and our actual lives, and grieving things in our past and present (including ALL of our crutches – including HIM), and then finally finding the strength to stand on our own feet and THEN building a life of self-love, esteem, and happiness. You can’t just JUMP to the love, esteem and happiness part no matter how we may want to! Like you just can’t JUMP to a happy, healthy relationship with an intrinsically flawed AC.”
That is true,I know I should love and focus on myself but Im still strugling on how to do it.The temptation of jumping on another relationship to ease the discomfort of being alone( I guess you can call it the emotional laziness that NML talked about) is very big.Is hard for me to focus on myself and be alone.I have that believe that a relationship is the key to happiness and I have been after one for so long that now I just dont know how to be diferent.My life is a mess now,I have no idea what I want to do as a career,I dont have hobbies,I dont meet with my friends often.I know I should be concetrating on figuring that out but all I can think about is relationships.Why it is so hard to love and focus on ourselves?
Sorry to post again. I just wanted to share that the negative things I believe about myself are that I don’t deserve and I’m not allowed to want anything for myself – that kind of want is incrediby ugly and shameful – and if I do show my wants and wishes they will be specifically denied on principle. I think somewhere, down the way – well, I know where, but that’s beside the point – I got the message that wants, for myself were unforgivably self-centered and arrogant. I’ve also believed that I’m not allowed to be angry with people I profess to care about, and instead I have to make them feel comfortable and good about themselves at all costs (to myself).
I put this out there as an example to you ladies of what you might be wrestling with, deep down, as well – cuz I could have used it in the beginning – although, it is something you can only find yourself. Do some digging. Get in there. Get angry at your parents
Realize they’re wrong. And then get on.
@ Anusha
“My life is a mess now,I have no idea what I want to do as a career,I dont have hobbies,I dont meet with my friends often.I know I should be concetrating on figuring that out but all I can think about is relationships.Why it is so hard to love and focus on ourselves?”
Chicken and egg. GET a hobby – or do the thing which was quoted here many times by Brad, get some plants and look after them. That’s a relationship too and you know what? My plants can’t talk to me but they protect me. It’s true! People can’t see in my windows so much because of their leafy screen. They also give out oxygen in return for the poison I pump out of my lungs with every breath. When I walk past my home, the colours of the plant pots and the cheerful green life I see makes me feel welcomed home.
These are things that you need to focus on – career, things to do with your time, those friends … these are way more important than chasing after guys. Seriously. Go to the gym or if money is tight get a workout DVD and make that your hobby… the exercise will help, it’s a proven fact!
PJ — I was raised in that house too. Hearing my therapist say that she felt incredibly sad for the little girl who had to grow up there as a non-person, never having her needs, desires, hopes, dreams acknowledged much less met — that was a shocker. I’d made a lot of progress over the past several years … then I got distracted by an assclown who was basically a life-support system for a big dick & little else. I went right back to the old patterns with the same predictable result; now I have to start again, but hopefully the rebuilding won’t take as long this time around.
@Anusha – “to ease the discomfort of being alone.”
Anusha, I would start there. What is uncomfortable about being alone? Why is it uncomfortable for you? Does it scare you? Why? What is it about a relationship that you believe would ease that? What do you NEED? What are you crying out for? Learn what your needs are. And know that you cannot get it purely from an outside source. It has never worked for you in the past – getting these needs met from a relationship – or you wouldn’t be here, and you wouldn’t be struggling right now.
@Skyscraper – I’m sorry too Skyscraper, for us
But glad we’re not in that house anymore. My eum was basically my step-mother, and I’m grateful he reminded me of things I need to work through. It’s been a loooong time since I thought of her.
Yes NML, it’s so true, some of us are so stuck in our comfort zone that anything different is just too scary to try.
I’m 52 now and have followed the same pattern since I was 15, have only recently started to really understand why though I could see the pattern and had a good idea where it had come from.
Anusha you are afraid of being alone so you jump into relationships,I am the opposite, so afraid of being hurt that I prefer to stay alone or have part time non real relationships – both approaches stem from a same lack of confidence in ourselves.
I guess the message is still the same, learn to value ourselves, learn to hold back from the thrill of what is the ‘fix’ for our own negative fears, learn to be still within ourselves. It’s not easy, I’m fed up with being so independent, I knew no different so learning to trust and share with the right people is a struggle, the opposite is looking to others to validate you. Neither approach has worked for us.
It’s just that sticking our toe in the water feels like sticking our heads above the parapet – just too frightening, how on earth do we overcome this? I’m really stuck on this one.
Butterfly-”These are things that you need to focus on – career, things to do with your time, those friends … these are way more important than chasing after guys.”
I realy like that line and I might keep it in mind.I dont know how it started but I just have this idea that relationships are the most important thing.I just couldnt take personal happiness from anything like work,friends and so on.Dont get me wrong I like those things and Im gratefull to have them on my life but is like while they add lets say 10% for my happiness meter,relationships add 70% or so.Yeah I know there is something wrong with me thinking that way.Relationships shouldnt be all that important.And I agree that I realy need to get busy,thanks for the sugestions.
PlanetJane-I dont realy know what my needs are.I know that might sound strange but is true.I guess I have been so disconected from myself and living my life how other people wanted that now I just dont know how to fulfill myself.About being alone,I just realy dont like it.I know I can make it on my own that I dont realy need somebody to suport me but I dont want to be alone.I want a family,a husband,getting married,having kids.And I thought that by now I would be getting married or at least engaged but the fact I not even have a bf yet scares me.Makes me afraid to not be able to find somebody.
sadthing-I think Im geting to the point that you are too.I catch myself avoiding people sometimes to not end up being hurt.For example when I notice that Im geting interest for a guy I usualy just walk away now.I want a relationship very much but I just dont want to get hurt anymore.Is contradictory the same time I want it I protect myself from that.So I end up behaving in a contractory way,geting close and then pushing away.
“But you have to, because if you don’t, years will go by like sand through your fingers and you will suddenly start getting jolts that force you to look at the reality. Better for it to be sooner rather than later so you can start living your life now, and engaging with people who will actually engage back and reciprocate rather than have you jumping through constantly shifting hoops to ‘win’ them.”
Does this ring true. After giving my heart to a man who chased me at work for more than two years (while keeping a long distance relationship from me) and finally getting me to date him and spend time with him, of course, i fell for him because I worked all the time and I thought we were exclusive. Later, I found out he was flirting with other women! In one instance, one woman he worked very closely told me that he never went out anywhere, he always stayed home. Anywhere? We had been all over the city, the mountains, lakes, and explored underground caves! He was keeping our relationship a secret from other women!
I stuck by him because he said he loved me but could not be in a relationship, if only the timing was different. He said i was the perfect woman for him, he said, he had issues due to his his ex gf. Until about four months ago, he dumped me, his reason was “He was confused”. I did No contact until he showed up at my doorstep weeks later begging me back.
During that period of time which I simply could not trust him. I was so angry at him. I was only happy when ignored my instincts and blissfully and blindly loved him and allowing time to pass, eroding at my self esteem.
A few weeks ago I said he needed to build back my trust in him, He got mad. As a result, he dumped me again! BY E-MAIL!!
Since then, its been no contact. I have him totally blocked from IM, phone, doorman, texts – everything!
That was been the last two years of my life mind you. All of this because i thought he was having issues and because I thought it would all work out in the end. Anyone who loves you or who plans on building a relationship with you or building your trust, should treat you that way.
So ladies – yes don’t waste your time!!! I lost more than two years!
Comments?
@ Rose – so flip-floppy i thought it was my ex- is he from Texas lol we women are always so patient and understanding…two years down the drain;( what reason did he give in his email?? how old is he? he sounds so confused!!! or could there be another woman that caused him to be “confused”???
@Rose,
It will be two years for me in September. With slight paraphrasing, he had said all the same things to me at one point or another that you quoted. He was confused, the timing was wrong. Yet we had been “separated at birth”, we “fit”, had been “made for each other”.
What a crock. I don’t know why I had listened to any of it, especially since I never asked for a relationship or ever really anything at all so I don’t know why he’d felt compelled to feed me all this stuff in the first place.
But I loved him so much. We had always said that being each other’s best friend came first, and it’s almost like it became some kind of an honor code I would stick to; when he was hurting, even if he had hurt me in the process, too, I would feel that not comforting him amounted to a dereliction of duty. Every time I tried to get away from this mess, he’d reel me back in with what I now see as guilt trips. He “needed his best friend”. He “understood” why I would try to end the relationship, but he “couldn’t bear the thought” of losing me as a friend.
I thought it would work out in the end just as you did, because how could something so special fizzle out, right? If I were to be brutally honest with myself, I’d say that some part of me still keeps that hope. But you know what? I can’t afford to wait. Every day more sand slips through our fingers, and it is time we will never get back. Maybe the connection had been unique, but even so what’s the good of it if you can’t be with that person?
I don’t understand how I got here. I’ve always liked being alone. All my friends put up with my disappearing periodically for a few days to finish a project in my studio or just spend a weekend up in the mountains with only my dog. I have never been a needy person and there’ never been a dearth of men anyway, either romantically or s friends. Yet for two years I have thought about little but this one person. Well, being 39 is not necessarily a phase in life I would have picked to start over, but I suppose 41 or 43 will sit even less well with with me, and this thing isn’t going anywhere.
There may have been a point to my string of rambling originally, but now I have no idea what it was. Rose – I hear you. New leaf, right?
@Brad – you are right and I’m going to hang on to my naivete. It didn’t serve me well this time and maybe it got a little dinged up, but I think I’ll just put a new bumper on it and keep on trucking.
Thank you all just for being here. Sometimes it’s scary to come home to all these heavy thoughts and it’s nice to know now that I can log in and find myself in some very fine company.
@Aega and Rose
I never cease to be amazed at how similar these guys are. If we are emotionally lazy (which I may just be), they are emotional slobs!!!
I had the same – confusion, wrong timing, “understood” if I wanted to leave, wants to be friends forever, never wants to lose me, had a “gut feeling” that we were meant to be together. And all this from a MM!!!
And you asked how something so special can just fizzle out, but I think the answer to that is becoming clear. If we are involved with married men, it’s impossible to have a relationship based on anything real. I will never forget NML’s point that we know 2 things about MM – they can cheat, and they can lie. I could never trust my ex for those reasons. No matter how much he actually said to me “trust is important in a relationship”!!! And how emotionally lazy are the MM being if they don’t end a relationship with their wives before starting a new one?
So the way it went for me was, I just kept wanting more and more of him – more time with him, more feelings from him, more communication with him – like I needed more and more of a drug I was building up a tolerance to. And because of our situation, there’s no way that level of intensity and closeness could have happened. And that was soooooo frustrating to me!!!
NML’s point really makes sense here with MM: “it’s very easy to say that you love someone and that you’re trying your best to make things work when you’ve chosen to be with someone who you know isn’t capable of reciprocating.”
I like your line Aega: “What a crock. I don’t know why I had listened to any of it”. I am going to try to see all these things he said as a “crock” even if my heart so wants to believe he was being sincere. There’s an oxymoron – a sincere AC!!!
I hope you did think of your husband a few times in the last 2 years, Aega, and not just the EUM/MM.
I am going to make it a goal to become less “emotionally lazy” myself. it’s time to face my fears, my issues, myself – and take some risks. Thanks for that reminder NML.
@all these posts above.
These made me laugh, all of them. Not at YOU, of them.
Now I know why NML calls them assclowns because before that didn’t properly resonate but … they’re FUNNY. They actually are funny. It’s unintentionaln humour, it’s cruel but …
Mine could have said all these things too!!!!
Yanno, usually the first thing I have done for weeks is log on here, today it wasn’t, I checked for other things. I see this as a good sign, wanting to check in with you ladies to see how you are doing but it is out of concern and love (cos yeah I am feeling close to a lot of the women here) not NEED. It’s a very nice feeling.
Assclowns. LOLOLOLOLOL.
@Aega You have to accept your own emotional unavailability. End of. In some ways you sound very much like me – I also would disappear into something and need solitude. I’m trying really hard to work past that.
No, I am not emotionally lazy, but I am obsessed with getting things right and making puzzle pieces fit. And, the thing with the truly EUMs, the pieces will never fit.
And, because I was obsessed with getting things “correct” as in getting things to make sense, I then ended up getting obsessed with him and his behaviors. Trying to figure those out.
I knew better. I firmly believe in choice rather than, “it just happened.”
So, I think I am the opposite of lazy, when it comes to emotions. I have a high sense of emotional integrity, and assumed that someone who told me he loved me and wanted to be with me was telling the truth. Naive. Naive. Naive.
@Angelina
Hon this is why I said it seems like an affront to say emotionally lazy but I still agree with NML. It is far easier to stay in a pattern of perfectionism and obsessing than it is to RID yourself of these things. Hugs.
I was wondering how things would be if I had just done something the first 3 years of my relationship when my ex used to treat me like crap.I usualy didnt say anything because I was afraid of his reaction,everytime I confronted him for his behaviour he just would get mad and withdraw.I guess the fact that I wouldnt say anything was like a green light for him to keep doing it right? Like a sign that I would be the perfect fallback girl.Other thing I want to ask is,is wrong to complain when you arent being mistreated but is treated with indiference? Like I said before he stoped treating me bad after 3 years but started acting like if he didnt care much(wouldnt mind if we had to stay a week or more without talking,didnt seem bothered when our dates have to be canceled,wouldnt be romatic,wouldnt call me often and so on).He seemed to not agree with my complains,like he probably thought to himself “I stoped treating her bad so why she is complaning now?”.But I wanted to fell loved,important,cherished.I wanted to fell like one of the most important things to him(like I think people in love usualy fell) and not something he went to when he had nothing better to do.Do I have a wrong idea about love? Or is normal to want those things from a relationship?
@Anusha
“I usualy didnt say anything because I was afraid of his reaction,” – I think this may be considered a boundary issue for you. And yes, it makes sense that if you didn’t assert those boundaries, he would have no reason to change his behaviours.
If you are being treated with indifference, your needs to feel loved are not being met, so IMHO, that would be something to discuss too, yes. People in a loving relationship do not feel indifferent about each other – that is why we are trying to get to that indifference feeling with our exes – so they can’t hurt us any more, so they can’t affect us emotionally any more. To me, indifference is not compatible with love.
It sounds like you agree – and yes, I think it is normal to want to feel
“loved,important,cherished.I wanted to fell like one of the most important things to him” as you mentioned.
@everyone
I have finally acted on my idea of getting myself into therapy. I called the confidential counselling services for my workplace, and I should have my first appointment within the next 2 weeks. I was nervous making the call (I am still shaking), but the person was very understanding and helpful. I am tired of being “emotionally lazy” and sticking to these old, familiar but uncomfortable patterns. I also feel I will need some extra support as I have to see my ex in a couple of days (just typing that made my heart pound so hard!), and I will have to see him every day for 5 days while trying to return to NC after breaking it. I know I will be more than ready to see a counsellor after that!!!
Love to all,
Meant xo
I think i’d call myself Emotionally Frozen – not lazy. I pick a guy – usually a sad-sack or jerk – and then put all of my emotion on him. Our relationship becomes my world.
My ex EUM just (as in minutes ago) hit me up to have sex with “no strings”. For the first time ever, I told him, No. He then tried to guilt me and when that didnt work, said he was “sorry the whole relationship thing didnt work out” and that he had “led me on.”
Once again I let my heart take a beating just by having a conversation with him. Without a doubt, NC is the only way to heal from this. I just wish he would stay away from me.
@annied
That is the first honest communication you’ve had from him by the sound of it. They do know, when they have trod the path before, when a woman really has decided that they are not going to play ball. By saying “sorry the whole relationship didn’t work out and I lead you on” he is ADMITTING he knows he is a jerk.
It hurts but … have you told him to stay away from you? Actually in those words “I wish to have nothing at all to do with you”.
@Meant WOO you go girl! Wishing you luck and power – will drop you a line later on when I am chilled out from my day.
I cannot tell you all how informative and helpful this site has been. Reading NML’s great posts and the inspiring, intelligent, honest and real responses from you all has made me feel part of a community of very emotionally responsible people. Thank you NML and everybody. I do think responsibility is key. I think being responsible for your actions and reactions, emotional or otherwise is incredibly important in any relationship, but particularly in romantic ones. Emotional laziness comes into this of course. I have always prided myself on being a very emotionally intelligent person – I pick apart people, I pick apart myself to see how I work, what I feel, why I feel etc. But this, while interesting, is not real emotional engagement. I am shocked that I have been so blind to this. I have been a character in the story of my own life, entertaining others, looking for the next chapter. But I am real. I cannot write the parts of the other people in the story. They are real. They play their own parts. I cannot assume if I am emotionally responsible, that they will be. In fact, I should assume the opposite. The majority of people are emotionally irresponsible and they obviously WON’T tell you that directly. They tell you INDIRECTLY though. I have been deaf to these clues, so busy relishing the drama and rollercoaster of highs and lows, I fail to hear the usual litany of “you’re pretty, you’re fun BUT…I’m happy seeing you twice a week, I don’t know how to do relationships, I’m afraid of being a batchelor forever, I have more mistakes to make…” YADDA YADDA YADDA. What rot. Seriously. I have assumed in the past that the men that have pursued me, taken me out, wined me, dined me, been kind to me etc have actually LIKED me. That is not true. They like how I make them feel. I am fun. They use me and often not for sex, but for company. They are emotional vampires feeding off my seeming openness. I have noticed that as a result of being a “fun” person who gets on easily with lots of people, men are interested but only in the fun. They see me as being a casual, sometimes girl BECAUSE I am fun. In a few “relationships” I haven’t noticed this for a little while as I’ve been too busy living my life, working, hanging with friends…then I ask them for something, to go to something or just text them first (YES, texting is the WORST!) and bizarrely the whole dynamic of the relationship changes, no matter how “cool” I have been/am. Well, screw that. And screw them. I had a particularly brilliant and hilarious epiphany moment (NML speaks of epiphany relationships in other posts) with one AC (the Daddy of them all!) After messing around with him for a year or so (I was eu, he was eu…a match made in pergatory) and with both of us seeing other people (it’s a long story, we we never going out…we’d just bump into each other frequently) I had a 5 month “relationship” with a complete AC, found this site, ended it and breathed a sigh of relief. Then I bumped into Daddy AC again. It’s a long and not particularly interesting story but one evening at his house I MADE myself talk about “us” and what he was playing at with me. I had assumed because he was artistic, a father, a business owner, older than me etc etc blah blah that he was emotionally responsible. DUH! He was hopeless. He couldn’t articulate his feelings. He just laughed at what I said, made light of it, shifted uncomfortably, squirmed, made jokes…a 37 year old man. Wasn’t this supposed to be FUN?? Wasn’t it supposed to develop NATURALLY? I couldn’t believe it. Then, as if to really hammer it all home he said, “Well, that’s alot to take in. I need to think about it all” which is, and I kid you not, the exact same words used by 5 month AC when I resonably, gently, non-threateningly and softly told him of my concerns. That broke the spell for me. Reality bites, but it’s a good hurt. At least it means something, at least it can heal and you can look at your scar and smile, knowing that it won’t be split again. I don’t know if what I’ve said makes sense. I think I just wanted to articulate it and to tell people who would really understand. It’s so simple. Be yourself. If someone likes you REALLY they will be there for you. It’s what I deserve. It’s what we all deserve. I think you are all wonderful, strong and beautiful women. I salute you! xxx
@Tricky,
You raised many good points! I also engage in “analyzing” emotions, but not so much in allowing myself to fully engage – I like the distinction between those 2 that you made. I can also relate to some of the problems of being thought of as a ‘fun’ person. My ex told me I am “beautiful” and “fun” but when I asked him what actual personal qualities he appreciated about me, he couldn’t come up with anything except that I was caring and patient (?doormat) and asked me for more time to answer that question. So, I gave him time and space, and tried to let the “relationship” unfold naturally. I gave him *seven months* before I asked him again what he valued about me/our “friendship” besides physical aspects, and he STILL couldn’t answer!!! How long do these men need to think??? He insists that he has just never been able to express his feelings, except in a physical way. It was exhausting to try to carry the emotional part of the relationship for both of us. (although, in hindsight, I was probably just projecting – he did say he had “strong feelings” for me, but it only ever felt like lust, or possibly appreciating that I was a sounding board for him).
You are so right – “They are emotional vampires feeding off my seeming openness.” – and “a match made in purgatory” – I am soo appreciating your descriptions!
“Reality bites, but it’s a good hurt. At least it means something, at least it can heal and you can look at your scar and smile, knowing that it won’t be split again.” – this is making *so* much sense Tricky! I am just hoping in my case, that I am emotionally intelligent enough NOT to let the wound be opened again (I just broke NC with my ex 2 days ago
)
You seem “wonderful, strong and beautiful” too – thanks for sharing your story and thoughts. I hope you are free of your AC’s now, and are well on your way to healing.
@Butterfly – looking forward to your reply later on – happy “chilling”
“My ex told me I am “beautiful” and “fun” but when I asked him what actual personal qualities he appreciated about me, he couldn’t come up with anything”
Wow is amazing how much I can relate to that.When I asked my ex what he liked about me he would say some parts of my body but then I would say that I wanted to know what he liked on my personality,he couldnt answer too.And after a while he came up with “I like how you were with me when we first meet,nobody have been that nice with me” (HUGE RED FLAG!!!!! That just showed that was about him never about me.He was interested on me because I was a ego boost to him but by then I havent found this site yet so I couldnt reconize it).I think is realy funy how our EUMs do and say the same.
@@Who said this? I can’t find it now
Sorry – “I have a high sense of emotional integrity…Naive. Naive. Naive.”
I am so feeling this way right now! Or, I’m becoming more aware of it because of this site…which is such a good thing. I think when you have that emotional integrity, and ASSUME that others do as well, or are somehow magically equipped with the same values as you – even though nearly everything they do and say should be telling you otherwise – you do end up becoming a sort of accidental “victim”. It is when you are aware that you have/want emotional integrity, and others may not, that you can truly see others as they are…accept them as they are, but not have to be in relationships with them. It also helps, I think, to not be coming from a place of need and desperation – wanting so much for everyone to fit the image of what you “need” and how you think things should be.
Last night, I was sort of sneakily “set-up” to spend some time with a friend of a friend of a friend. He’s an ok guy. We’ve met before. I’m not attracted to him, don’t particularly like him, but this morning I thought, “Maybe because I’m not attracted to him, and see him as just a regular guy, I should give him a chance – maybe it’s an indication he’s not eu.” And I started looking over what I know about him – which isn’t much actually, but enough! And here are the clenchers:
1) He’s sleeping with and “dating” (hardly) a girl I know – she likes him a lot, but doesn’t know where the relationship is going and is afraid to ask. I found out last night that he’s “just not that into her,” but it’s “something to do”, and he thinks I’m “cute.”
2) He has a (rather long) list on his cell phone of all the women he’s slept with, complete with codes indicating what they did together.
For a brief moment, I thought, “Aw, you shouldn’t judge the guy, we all do what we have to, we’re all human, give him a chance.” I feel lately, as I’m learning so much, that I’m being too judgemental for my friends and aquaintances. I feel like an outsider really. But then I thought, “WHY give him a chance?” I don’t need this guy! And I certainly don’t want to end up on that list. Ew. Buh bye.
And I JUST REMEMBERED, when my xeum – the one I’m lamenting on these pages – heard about this guy (from last night) and his list and his “way with the ladies”, he immediately wanted to meet him – said he was his hero. These guys are in their 30s-40s. There’s a LOL for you Butterfly. Pathetic.
I’ve realized recently that I don’t want a relationship right now. I split up with my guy of 8 years, and I really just wanted to take some time to myself. I enjoy good alone time, good ME time – always have. But instead, life put the xeum/ac in my path just days after moving into my own apt. And he pushed his way through my door and into my life. And I went along with it because I was scared and ended up thinking I could handle something casual because, well, I hadn’t wanted anything more. But ohhh did it turn into something more. That was my laziness. I was afraid, or even just nervous to face being alone – really on my own, and so I settled for xeum/ac – which in the long run has been far more miserable than “alone” ever threatened to be. “Alone” is turning out to be far better.
OMG, I’m reading this and I just want to run away from myself because I’ve been hanging on to the illusion that my best friend and I will end up together although he is in a long-distance relationship. We’ve known each other for 16 years and he has always been in love with me. We began sleeping together last December and although I’ve made much noise about not wanting to be the other woman, here I am 8 months later, still sleeping with him, still travelling miles to see him, still returning all of his phone calls. He says that the relationship he has is not one he wants to continue in for the long term, but according to him, there are a lot of things that make it difficult to abruptly end it with her (by the way, she has given him permission to sleep with other women as long he does not make them into his “other girlfriend”). The other day, he and I got into an argument because she was visiting him at his house, and after we hung up, she asked him about the conversation. He confessed that he and I had been intimate. He has told me that she has always been insecure about me, because once when she asked him how come he never says that he loves her, he said that he has only ever loved one girl and that is me (he to me this several months before he even knew I has developed feelings for him).
Long story short, they are still together after the revelation yet he is still professing love for me. He does all the things that a boyfriend does, and he is emotionally available to me whenever I visit or whenever we talk. We talk about many things including work, family, future goals, and even our “relationship”. He has admitted that he is afraid that he will hurt me because he is not sure that he can be monogamous, which is what I told him I require from a relationship. He has told me that he will respect my desire to not sleep with him until everything is sorted out, but he has also made it clear that he still wants us to be together. I believe (at least I want to) that he is genuine in his feelings because he has no reason to hang on to me since he has already gotten sex.
I have asked him endlessly why he can’t just be with me and he has said that he does not want to leave one woman for another. Once when I said that he was being loyal to her, he said no, he was being loyal to himself because if he leaves her for me, how can we both know he won’t leave me for someone else. He said this is why he will not do that and that he prefers to wait until something happens (whatever that something is because I thought the revelation of him and I together would have been enough. He actually said that the reason that he didn’t push for a break up was because he did something wrong and he actually wants her to do something wrong so that the relationship can end.)
Sometimes, our situation seems so different from every other “other woman” story, but from what I have read on this site, it seems all “other women” think their story is different. I would love some feedback on this though. I want to back away, but then I am also afraid that I will keep hanging on. I’ve been in 3 relationships and got cheated on in all 3. I feel bad doing this knowing he has a girl, but I know I am also betting on love. Why is it that although he is being honest with me, I just can’t seem to truly hear what he is saying? Oh lord, I am so confused.
@Anusha!!!
I just heard a quote today and I thought of you, cuz it goes along with what we were discussing earlier.
It’s “The opposite of love is not hate, it’s indifference, and the opposite of life is not death, it’s indifference” by Elsi Wiesel (or something similar!). So we are on the right track – we cannot put up with indifference from our men, as it shows that they don’t love us, and that there is no “life” in the relationship!!!
@Planet Jane
“I went along with it because I was scared and ended up thinking I could handle something casual because, well, I hadn’t wanted anything more. But ohhh did it turn into something more.” – I know how this happens, too. This is my story yet again!!! “I settled for xeum/ac – which in the long run has been far more miserable than “alone” ever threatened to be.” Yes – how can we put up with this misery for so long, and then crave the source of it weeks and months after we have realized they can *not* make us happy? BTW, that cell phone list of the women and codes really sounded creepy. I wouldn’t want to be the next woman on that long list, either!!!!!
@Ade – this guy sounds EU to me – with both of you on the go. How do you know what he is telling you and her about each other is true? You wrote “He has admitted that he is afraid that he will hurt me because he is not sure that he can be monogamous, which is what I told him I require from a relationship” – since he is telling you this, and he is admitting to not being able to give you what you need, why is he with you? And then “I believe (at least I want to) that he is genuine in his feelings because he has no reason to hang on to me since he has already gotten sex.” – however, he may want sex with you again in the future, and may be telling you what you want to hear in order to get it! I think my ex MM did the same thing to me the first 2 times we broke up (stopped being intimate) but continued as “friends”. He admitted that he would always want me sexually even if we had agreed to be *just* friends. So I really think you need to look at his behaviour, and not just his words, as NML always suggests.
“Once when I said that he was being loyal to her, he said no, he was being loyal to himself” – I think this says a lot right here – he is being loyal to himself, he is looking out for himself – seems like it’s all about him to me, as an outsider. This waiting sounds like ‘maintaining the status quo” per NML, or again, just being plain emotionally lazy! Why would she have to do something wrong for him to end it? Sounds fishy to me!!! I do not miss the agony of being the OW after I broke up with my ex 5 weeks ago. I thought we were “different” too, but as you say, as OW, we all seem to be in the same boat, with not much power and not much respect. I think your gut is telling you to “back away” – are you going to listen to it?
@Ade – “I have asked him endlessly why he can’t just be with me and he has said that he does not want to leave one woman for another. Once when I said that he was being loyal to her, he said no, he was being loyal to himself because if he leaves her for me, how can we both know he won’t leave me for someone else. He said this is why he will not do that and that he prefers to wait until something happens (whatever that something is because I thought the revelation of him and I together would have been enough. He actually said that the reason that he didn’t push for a break up was because he did something wrong and he actually wants her to do something wrong so that the relationship can end).”
Wow. I can see why you’re confused Ade.
You know what? I really don’t think it matters WHAT ends the relationship – his wrong or hers. He’s already done wrong.
And somehow, he thinks that her leaving him – even though he’s basically forced her – will prove that he’s committed to relationships, and to you!? Because he didn’t leave her. I’m sorry, but that is bordering on absurd. It is truly amazing, our capabilities to justify our behavior to ourselves and others.
The fact is, he doesn’t want to take responsibility for himself, his feelings, his behavior and his relationship. He won’t take responsibility.
I know you’re in love. I’m sorry for that. But what could it hurt to take a step back and out of this relationship for a while? It sounds like you could both use the space to get things together.
“We’ve known each other for 16 years and he has always been in love with me.”
Umm, gulp, Ade – and I hope you’ll forgive me for what I say next, but – when a man truly loves a woman, he does something about it. He doesn’t let 16 years slide past, including a time when you were both together and free to make a clear future for yourselves.
I tend to see BIG TIME EU or even Narcissist here: feeding off your attention and affection while living whatever life he chooses along the way.
And when he did step forward to “join with you” at last, it gets done in a nasty, underhand and hurtful way.
Nah, Babes, that doesn’t smack of love to me. Not real love.
Historically, what men have done for a woman they really love was often the stuff of legend!
I agree with PlanetJane that you should step out of this, for your own sake. Once you get yourself free of this harmful and painful illusion, who knows who is really out there waiting for you?
Best Regards, Leonine
@ Leonine, PlanetJane, Meant to be Happy:
Thank you so much for your responses. But let me be completely honest with you: although he had loved me for all these years, I had always pushed him away too many times to count. I always rejected him and told him that I only want to be friends. 3 years ago, I told him to move on with his life and stop waiting for me, since he always had hope that we would be together. After being hurt in my last relationship, I turned to him because I felt safe with him and had begun to deeply regret not choosing him in the past. I have often asked if he is stringing me along for revenge, but he has said he is not stringing me along and he is not looking to take revenge.
I know his words are s**t, and his actions do not match what he proclaims, but guilt, regret, heartbreak, rejection and low-esteem have really taken a toll on me and cause me to stay. I think back to all the years he would beg me to love him and I want to kick myself for rejecting him. We talk about this a lot and he constantly reassures me that he has forgiven me for all these things. I think that perhaps if we had been together, we would have been happy but I really was not attracted to him then. I wonder what inspires my attraction now? Oh God, I am really torn…I don’t want to be hurt again because I don’t think my heart can take it. I don’t want to be with another woman’s boyfriend because I know how hurt I was when this happened to me but I just can’t seem to let go of the fact that he is the only man that ever told me he loved me…and actually meant it. I know a lot has changed in both our lives and he has said that he wants us to get to know each other better. But for me, I say I want all or nothing, but here I am waiting for a dream to become reality.
I want to back away, especially since I know that I am not in love with him, but I know that I can eventually fall in love with him, and would want to. I love him deeply because he has been my best friend (actually my only REAL friend who knows me better than anyone else) all these years, but though I get the mushy, in-love feelings many times, I don’t think I’m there…yet. A part of me wants to stay and a part wants to leave. I am going to live close to him next year for school, and inside, I am hoping that we can build something solid…but that’s only a hope and I’m just so darn confused right now that I’m beginning to cry. Thanks again.
Oooo (((Ade)))
Well, I can only say that for 13 out of 16 years something in you encouraged you to push this man away. Deep down, you never wanted to be with him in the first place. Okay, so he was your Best Friend, and that’s a double wammy to take on board – but the way he’s acting now, Ade, he’s no kind of friend at all.
I did this (with a full blown psychopath, by the way) and not only did I have to cope with the shattering on an illusion, and the hideous stalking and retribution of a psychopath (not fun, believe me); but I had to cope with a good deal of self-anger: I could hear myself thinking over and over, “I KNEW not to go near him, I damn well KNEW not to”.
But, whatever. What’s done is done and we’re all left coping with the aftermath as best we can and lapping up the wonderful insights and support we get from sites like this.
Wouldn’t it be great if our foresight was as developed as our hindsight, lol?
Confusion comes from arguing the pros and cons with ourselves inside our own heads. Don’t! Pick one course of action or another and concentrate on that. Pick being free of him. Pick walking away and looking forward to knowing more and applying it to what/who comes next in your life. Pick living and being out-an-about and mixing-and-meeting.
Cry as much as you need to (I cried for MONTHS after the ex hubby; after the ex Narcissist; after the ex EU – buckets and buckets and buckets. And thought I’d never stop… until…. I got bored, lol. I thought, “There must be something better to do than this” and there was!). Come on here and bare your soul as much as you need or want to. And learn better.
NML is right: relationships don’t just fall off the Love Tree and sort of “happen”. They’re choices and hard work and reality based behaviours and a whole bunch of other things that belong out of the realm of The Magical Feeling.
You’re going to be just fine, Ade. Better than fine. You’re going to be knowledgeable and able and certain. You’re going to be GREAT.
love, Leonine
meant you wrote…– how can we put up with this misery for so long, and then crave the source of it weeks and months after we have realized they can *not* make us happy? ”
remember dears, that what we crave is not them, but our rich fantasy version of them that we have carefully crafted in defense of the awful reality. Granted, they are partially responsible for planting the seeds of fantasy, for they hint at good times, but we supply much of the the water and sun and earth to try to help the plant grow, while they shake and stomp the ground and dump way too much non composted sh*t all over the poor plant. Or somethin like that
)
But, back to reality. The reality is the EUM is an ARSECLOWN, no matter if he is borderline anything, depressed, a jerk, insecure, had a hard life, wifey left him….whatever. The reality is that we want something mature, secure and meaningful. In the best case scenario the AC;s offer silliness, drama and emo-lite. If you are not so lucky they also offer the most subtle variation of emotional abuse possible. So yeah, we do not want them, we want the good we see in them that they do not see in themselves.
Ade, I’m singin with the choir above. Sorry to say this since but when I read the things he said to you I just thought ugh and ick. I also thought..lazy, dumbarse, clown goofin round, waiting for “fate” to make a decision for him. There is nothing of emotional substance or maturity needed for commitment of any kind in the man you describe. As far as love goes…I often felt that I loved the EUM, but I now see it as more of compassion for the fool, and the strong feelings I felt as wanting it to be different, the longing for deep and meaningful relationship that he could not do. That want was the strongest desire I have ever known. But, if that is love it is the stuff of torturous love and I do not want that kind of love in my life.
Ade, I did not read your second post before I responded to your first. I have always felt equal to men and from the time I was a child I often had best friends who were boys. I have had men in my teen years who were best friends, and I never knew they had romantic feelings for me until years later. It is hard to tell a good friend that you do not want a romance, but if that is the truth then that is all I can say, and it is up to them to decide how they can and will handle it.
Two things strike me as odd about your story…if he is so sure that he loves you and you seem to be finally willing to ” try” to commit to a relationship, then he would make a choice to let go of the OW and see if his dream of you ends up being reality.
But it also seems you are “settling” and I find this more than perplexing because I do not see what the rush is to settle down when you don’t have the feelings that make you want to commit to a relationship with him.
The fact that three men cheated on you also implies that you are willing to settle for some types that are not that sincere, or maybe you run in those circles where infidelity is OK. Kinda like the OW is OK with him cheating. But yet you say you have been hurt by this behavior so maybe its time to take a hard look at what you want and carefully evaluate the ones you are choosing, to see if they have the character to give you what you want.
Regardless, there is good info all over here and much to learn about ourselves.
@Ade – “but guilt, regret, heartbreak, rejection and low-esteem have really taken a toll on me and cause me to stay.”
The very things that cause you to stay in this relationship, are those that keep you from having a good relationship.
” I love him deeply because he has been my best friend (actually my only REAL friend who knows me better than anyone else) all these years, but though I get the mushy, in-love feelings many times, I don’t think I’m there…yet. A part of me wants to stay and a part wants to leave.”
This is your emotional unavailability. It sounds like you got involved with your best friend after a break-up, mainly, probably because he was there. I can understand why both of you are naturally hesitant to commit to each other. Neither of you are fully healthy and ready and available, nor trustworthy. Again, it can’t hurt to step back and take a break.
Thank you once again for the site and your creation and maintaining and keeping it going with new posts.
You’re so smart, Nat. Very true this – as are all your posts in each detail.
I was lazy for years without even knowing I was lazy.
Changing might be hard work, and oh I am so grateful for it. It makes such a difference.
And when I get tested along the way to see if I really have, then I get to see the difference between saying I want to be happy and actually doing the things that will make me happy
xoxox
Yes, I am…And, I know I need to do something about it. It is SO hard to let go of this fixture, albeit, negative fixture in my life. It has been years…coming up on my seventh year of this drama with my EUM. I am exhausted and stressed. I have cried so much as I try to let go of him that my eyes literally hurt. I am just so scared to relinquish my comfort zone of misery for the unknown. I know it sounds so pathetic, but it is so. I will do my best and try…
NML, thanks again for your insight. You are providing such a wonderful service for women.
Meant to be Happy-Thanks for your coment and your quote.I agree with you,there is no love where there is indiference.At least I didnt fell loved and important at all with him treating me that way.I want to find a guy that cherish me,that has pleasure in talking and being with me.That gets happy when he gets a call from me,that look forward to when he is going to see me next.
OKOKOKOK – I have to dump the bohemian and lately oh-so-tragic me for a minute and get in touch with my technorati side. I am sooo tempted to open up Excel and start a spreadsheet: all of our names on the left and across the top the “check it if it applies to you” categories. Have you ever heard the following words from your EU/MM/AC – “I will understand if you leave”, “I never meant to lead you on”, “We were meant to be together”, “I can’t imagine my life without you”, “If only the timing were better”, “You deserve so much more than me”, “I know I’m selfish”, “Please don’t take your friendship away from me”, “I am so confused right now”, “Wow, that’s a lot to take in”, “If I had only met you when blah blah blah…”etc etc etc. Yikes.
Category number 2, which of these have happened to you lately: you wrote a long email in which you “came clean”/”bared your soul”, that sort of thing, and got a 1-liner in return. He “bared his soul” to you and you felt completely distracted while he was doing it because you kept trying to figure out whether the lines came from a “Dallas” or “Dynasty” rerun or a trashy paperback with Fabio in spurs on the cover. You went AWOL to try and break the vicious cycle and the first bait thrown your way was one of those forwarded over and over again internet funnies. You just had what seemed like emotionally laden sex and you could swear that you could hear him ticking off another item on his mental to-do list, “OK then, now I have done the conference table thing”.
I am torn between laughing and crying. I had a crazy busy, productive, pat-myself-on-the-shoulder kind of day today. Maybe thought of him a couple of times? But then at the end of the day I got in my car and by the time I reached the first intersection my heart had landed somewhere in the pit of my stomach and that feeling we all know came. I don’t know what I’d do without you, girls. It’s day 13 today of NC and it feels different (not to mention it’s longer) than all the other times. Reading about who you had thought was the love of your life in stories after stories of other women and realizing just how far from unique he is serves me better than a cold shower would. This site is an amazing gift.
@Meant – I should have said “what rot” instead but I seem to forget my manners (and across-the-pond idioms) late at night… Not only did I think of my husband lots – after all each break I had initiated with the other bozo was because of him – but I continue to do so, and one of the hardest things for me to accept about my two years of utter stupidity is that I took a strong, loving relationship with the most amazing man I had ever known and destroyed it. Even when my feelings for the bozo were peaking in their intensity, I would always say to myself that this guy would never be half the man that my husband is. And now the best part of my marriage is gone because I had gone and had sex with someone to whom I was basically a trophy. I mean holy sh*t it was sex! Who the hell throws away a 10-year-long relationship for sex, in hotels and the back of a car no less?! My husband calls every day. He knows from my voice when I’ve had a tough day and he wants to hear about it. He checks to make sure that I’ve been eating. He tells me that he misses his smartass wife and reminds me to water my anemic plants. And I know that I can never go back because after what I did everything I will ever say to him will always have the underlying betrayal (which goes round and round in my head all the time) and someone of his integrity deserves someone that is not a lying sack of sh*t.
@Planet Jane – I’m sorry, but you can’t call yourself naïve, and especially triple naïve. I have already used up all the naiveté there ever was.
@Butterfly – where else do you go but off into your own head when you have screwed up this badly?
@Ade – two weeks ago I was just as convinced of his sincerity as you still are. And these guys may not all be dishonest intentionally. They are lying to us as much as they are lying to themselves. The term “sociopath” has been used a lot on this site and despite the negative connotations it carries (if this were a word association game whenever someone said “sociopath” I’d say “Ted Bundy”) it’s often on the inside of some very nice and intelligent people. My MM is one of the most tactful people I’ve met and probably the smartest who also possesses a rare trait of not needing to ever lord it over anyone. I know all the things that had shaped him when he was growing up and it’s certainly not his fault how damaged his emotional development had been. But that doesn’t make him any less toxic to me.
@Tricky – “I have been a character in the story of my own life, entertaining others, looking for the next chapter.” You too, huh?
Well well well. 13 days and counting and here comes a text message (he really is smart and clearly remembered that I told him I was changing my email account). “Hope you are doing good. Take care.” Umm, WTF is that for? Should I swoon now or later? Hop on a plane? Surely this is the epiphany I’ve been waiting for him to have.
Ladies, I am going to bed. I am not a bitter person and I’m too embarrassed to reread what I wrote tonight. Hitting “send” for better or worse.
@Aega “Hope you are doing GOOD”? That poor of a grammarian deserves your scorn. Just one more reason… LOL
I think this is an interesting post…I can’t say that I agree with all of it, however, it does give one reason to pause.
Sorry I’m not feeling like writing much this evening. I just think I need to allow my thought’s to drift away from my A/C situation completely for this evening. I’m tired of visualizing him doing whatever…I’d rather work on getting myself happy and whole. Hmmm, wonder what that woman will look like?
Goodnight…to all.
@brokenheartedbabble – ohthankgod I’m not the only philological elitist…lol … I thought the same thing when the message came across… Not to mention that coming from a guy with as much education as he’d had (I have to admit he outlasted me in college by a good three years), who is supposedly reaching out to me, the grammatical nonchalance just smacks of disrespect.
@Aega,
I love your spreadsheet idea!!! I will have to check off all items you mentioned, except for the “I know I’m selfish” – mine never admitted that, but I hinted to him that he was just that. Could we also add: “I couldn’t stand the heartache if our friendship ended”, “I express my feelings best in a physical way”, “I haven’t forgotten about you, it’s just that I have been sooo busy at work, and we had an emergency meeting today, and I had to fix my mother’s toilet, and my hard-drive crashed, and my son fell and hit his head, and the project I thought was due next week is actually due tomorrow…..” (OK, these are all excuses I have actually heard – pathetic!!)
I did wonder about this sentence you wrote “And now the best part of my marriage is gone because I had gone and had sex with someone to whom I was basically a trophy. I mean holy sh*t it was sex! Who the hell throws away a 10-year-long relationship for sex, in hotels and the back of a car no less?!” (to answer – perhaps people who are “looking for love in all the wrong places”?)
Why do you think you have thrown away your marriage? Your feelings and respect for your husband shine through the “AC quagmire” in your posts, even though you know you have hurt him (regardless of whether or not he’s aware of your affair). I read a book called “When Good People Have Affairs” by Mira Kirshenbaum, and she talks about the reasons why married people have affairs, and guides the reader through how to end them so that the best outcome is achieved for all involved. There is also some info from the book available through a quick “google”.
You wrote “I know all the things that had shaped him when he was growing up and it’s certainly not his fault how damaged his emotional development had been. But that doesn’t make him any less toxic to me.” – that’s true, and he’s also toxic to your marriage. Breaking up with, and getting over a MM, on whom you have spent so much emotional energy, is sooo tough, but please think about the benefits of choosing the man who will end up being the better life partner for you. (please excuse the run-on sentence – it’s late)
OK, that’s it for me – I’m off to bed now too.
Good night all…
I have SO much to say and I can’t really type cos I sliced my finger wide open – ouch! – it’s healing nicely but didn’t go to get it stitched (spare you the grisly details).
However …
@Ade – I will be VERY blunt. The man treats you like shit. Tell him he is treating you like shit and that IF he means it that he loves you that actions speak louder than words. Then much as it hurts go NC because he is TELLING you what he knows is true and you don’t hear it. None of us hear it. You’re betting on potential of a man who has none.
Please download NML’s book cos it rocks. It will really help you.
@Meant – “Yes – how can we put up with this misery for so long, and then crave the source of it weeks and months after we have realized they can *not* make us happy?”
I know! I can only think of it as an addiction. It really is. I’ve recommended this book before, but “Facing Love Addiction” by Pia Mellody is great.
Luv and good night!
PlanetJane: It was me who wrote that I have a high level of emotional integrity. I also stated that I was naive, naive, naive, because I made the assumption that most people operated from a level of – at the very least – the very basics of honesty. I mean, even with “great sex” removed from the equation, who would continue to be with someone they weren’t quite sure about? To me, it makes no sense to be just sort of there. How silly of me.
I’m now obsessing over this topic: emotional laziness. And, while I don’t feel that I am lazy, I do keep coming back to something I had read in NML’s book, Mr. U and the FBG. I can’t find the exact quote but there was something along the lines of, ” . . . his inertia enables your inertia which reinforces his inertia…” And, certainly that happened to me. I still obsess with the thought of, “How did I go from a very decisive individual to one who was willing to, ‘wait and see,’ what he would do next?” I mean, really, how did I let that happen? Why did I choose to stay, particularly after it became evident that this man equivocated on everything. And I do mean everything? It is like it was contagious.
There are a couple of books written by Stephen Carter and Julia Sokol on the topic of emotional unavailability. They refer to the “push-pull” dynamics of EU relationships. The other person is pulling you into the relationship; when you get pulled in, the other then turns around and pushes you away. This is what creates what many of us have referred to as the roller coaster effect. The instability is one that causes emotional exhaustion.
Anyway, these authors further explain that in eu relationships, quite often one person is passively avoiding intimacy and the other one actively avoids intimacy. I think that from the tales on this “board” and other similar sites, that that indeed might be what happens. It’s what makes the relationships so compelling, particularly when one or both parties is in a primary relationship. There are patterns that some of us tend to fall into.
I don’t know that I will ever really find the answers, but I do know this: He was confused and he was confusing. And even though I knew that his actions and his words were not matching, I found myself paralysed to move on.
Thank God I found the concept of No Contact.
I still don’t know that I agree that it is laziness. I might say that it is what we are familiar with. It is what we know.
@ Leonine – wb! Hope you had a nice holiday. Got to agree with you, re Ade’s post – this is saying Narc more than EUM to me too.
@ Ade
Your story made me sigh with recognition, it’s a variation on my own and I agree with the other comments that this is certainly EU behaviour with a hefty dose of narcissism thrown in. I say this because I’ve been there.
He’s in a long distance relationship -yep, my EUM always has LDR’s, there’s safety in the distance.
He proclaimed love for you for 16 years – well that was safe too because you were not available to him
He’s not sure he can be monogamous – my version was ‘I can never belong to one woman again’ it’s a warning and a test, if you don’t walk at this point they know you’ll accept the other woman/women
Being ‘loyal to himself’ – rephrased this is ‘I will do what is best for me regardless’
I could go on but this is so like my AC that it hurts. You must step away, I must do the same, because they will do absolutely nothing to change things, NML says that they specialise in inertia and it’s so true, and in a situation like this why would they want to change? They’ve got 2 women, and despite what you’ve told him, you have sort of accepted this, I did exactly the same. Maybe the other woman has accepted it too, he must be delighted with himself.
They don’t want a real relationship so they go for LDR’s or EU women. Thats the other hard part, looking at your own emotional availablity, Someone mentioned ‘He’s scared, she’s scared’ by Stephen Carter which I’d recommend too in addition to all the information and help you’ll get from this site.
I do feel for you Ade, it’s very very hard to walk away from someone who’s been part of your life for so long. I hope you are able to.
About LDR: the woman all that dustance away is being fed “you should be here with me” and tales of such longing, such love, such “when you are here”, “someday” … and they believe that man is being as true to them as they areto him most of the time. Yet concrete plans rarely made … take it from one who went there.
Sorry I should say it was only when there WAS evidence of another that I walked. He knows I mean business – I don’t think he will contact me. He has seen that when I determine something I throw all my will at it.
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