A few weeks ago, I shared with you about how buying my wedding dress had given me a crash course in commitment and chemistry. Well…a few weeks on, and attempting to get the wedding dress that I’ve paid for, has proven to be another crash course, this time in shadiness and doing right by yourself.
Always, always, always, listen to and trust your gut. Almost six weeks ago, I paid the deposit on my dress and in the twelve days that followed, I had to chase the designer about paying the balance and collecting my dress. Now bearing in mind that I was told I could collect it the following week, you can see why I started to feel a bit nervous. On three occasions I nearly sent a message saying that if she had changed her mind about selling the dress, fine, just fess up and gimme back my money! Each time I went to press send, I picked up the phone again..and went to voicemail. My gut said that I was going to be effed around. My gut was right.
Silence in a new relationship is never a good thing. This is especially the case when you 1) know that their phone isn’t broken and 2) see them on Twitter… Ever been out with someone who is blanking you but you can see that they’ve been on Facebook with their harem or surfing dating sites? Yeah, it’s infuriating.
Silence after you’ve got laid or handed over four figures in your hard earned cash is never a good thing. It’s not because the sex was so good that they lost their tongue; it’s that they’ve got what they want and also don’t want to give you the impression that it means more than it did. Likewise, when someone takes your frickin’ money, no matter how much it is, and then you don’t hear from them and you don’t know them, it doesn’t engender trust. What it does cause is anxiety and doubt.
People use silent treatment in relationships to manipulate you into the position that they want. It also controls the amount of communication when they ignore calls and only respond by text. Flush ‘em fast and then cut them off.
If you have to chase down someone and basically make most of the effort, you’re going to get veeeerrry pissed off after a while. Do you know what’s really got on my tits over the past few weeks? During this whole debacle, I’ve felt like Natalie Lue, March-August 2005 when I dated Dot Dot Dot Man, the guy who triggered my epiphany about Mr Unavailables. After a hot start, I spent 4.5 months wondering when I would hear from him next and then trying to work out why hadn’t heard from him, and then planning to dump his bony behind, and then changing my mind. “Just give it one more week”, this time round became “She’s so busy, I’ll just give it a few more days…”
Nobody is that busy, even world leaders. They ain’t busy; they just think they can relegate you in level of importance and that you’ll accept it.
It doesn’t matter who someone is, whether it’s who they tell you they are, or who you think they are, you are never deserving of being disrespected and effed around. Ever. I buy a lot of stuff on recommendation, but even then, I still judge it on my experience. I dropped the ball this time because nobody recommended this woman but she does tout about being a celebrity stylist and yada yada yada. Next thing, I’m rationalising that surely this person wouldn’t screw me about. Er, what the what now?
Don’t let what you perceive someone’s status, appearance, popularity, intelligence or whatever, blind you to seeing their actions and hearing their words for what they are. Important, good looking, super-intelligent and whatever else people do screw up and can screw you over.
Avoidance creates very large problems. I’ve made excuses, denied, and rationalised with exes because it helped me maintain a very awkward status quo instead of making uncomfortable decisions. I really didn’t want to start a dress hunt again just like people stay in crap relationships because they don’t want to be single again, even though the crap relationship continues to take its toll. And I still have no dress.
You don’t have to act like a crazy person, but you know what? It’s more than OK to be angry, it’s even more than OK to lay it down, and you shouldn’t feel bad for chasing for goods that you’re owed, or standing up for yourself. I realised today, I have been too frickin’ nice about this and just like when you play doormat and you end up being a martyr, trying to be all nicey nice to trigger decency in another person is a crock, especially when playing the goody two shoes is not what’s needed; it’s owning your right to open your mouth and make your voice heard in the name of honouring yourself. You don’t have to rage or disrespect someone, but honesty with respect, even when you’re bloody annoyed or angry, is more than acceptable.
It’s time for you to stop pretending that you don’t get angry or trying to be all holier than thou so that you can claim the higher road.
Texts are the laziest form of communication. I don’t know what the frick is wrong with people, but communicating with customers via text is unprofessional and thinking that you can actually have a relationship primarily by text is delusional. In 40 days, I have never received a phone call, and prior to today, I’ve had two texts. TWO. TWO! Can you see me practically spitting feathers? I hear from readers who have spent months or YEARS being managed by text – I just don’t know how you do it, or at least I didn’t…until I was escalating the dispute with Paypal today and read back what I’d typed.
I could see it all there. All my effort. Me making all the calls, her returning none. How had I missed this? Because when you get caught up in this mind f*ckery, you go moment to moment. I was so focused on getting the dress and not being ripped off, I didn’t see it, just like many readers are focused on getting the validation or the commitment, while not recognising they have no foundation in the present. Hot tip – keep a list and a Feelings Diary.
Also avoiding conflict by using texts to ‘communicate’ is immature. Put on your big girls/boys pants and pick up the phone at least.
Don’t accept bullshit and mind f*ckery. Every week, I’ve been given a different excuse and even guilted on occasion. Just like you don’t need someone treating you like you’re needy or an irritant, you don’t need someone clogging up your emotional drain with bullshit excuses and causing doubt to mess with your head.
When someone refuses to acknowledge and accept the impact of their actions, recognise the difference in values and don’t bother trying to educate them. FLUSH!
Commitment is only commitment if each person holds up their end of things. It’s all very well me being committed to the dress, but if I don’t have it, I’m committed to hot air. Nuff said.
So where am I now? Well just like you’re typical shady relationship, now that I’ve raised a Paypal dispute and escalated it, she’s been in touch. By text. You’ll know this feeling well if you’ve ever ended it with someone who wouldn’t step up, only to suddenly be flavour of the month.
It’s hard. I love my dress, but I don’t love any dress or any person that much that I’ll accept being disrespected and effed around. The dress just isn’t that special and whoever ‘they’ are isn’t that special either. I’ve set my terms and if the dress isn’t here tomorrow, sayonara. There are plenty of other dresses, just like there’s plenty of other people.
**Update 7pm GMT 5th April** Our best man (a stylist) collected the dress a couple of hours ago and has checked it. The drama is over. I nearly let the dress go but then I realised that the problem was with her not the dress. The dress means whatever I want it to mean. Thank you to everyone for your well wishes and concern xxx
Your thoughts?
Check out my book and ebook Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl where you can lots more insight into shady relationships.
Image credit Roijaune at SXC
About the Author:
Natalie Lue is the founder and writer of Baggage Reclaim and author of the books Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship and more. Learn more about her here and you can also follow her on Facebook and Twitter - @baggagereclaim .
Natalie (NML) – who has written 1082 posts on Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue.
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Fantastic comparison! I can see it exactly! It’s so inspiring, thank you
I hope it all works out well with your dress!
This post has so remindered me of a recent experience with a client (I’m a part’time virtual assistant). Initially, before we met I didn’t have a good feeling about him due to an email he had sent me about some work. It was the tone which put me off…something along the lines of “let’s see how quickly you can turn this (ie work) around”. We’d not even agreed that I was doing any work for him yet, we were still at the discussion stage. I sent him an email in response to state this and alsostating that I didn’t like the tone and that I was fully booked up with work until the New Year.
In Jan this year he contacted me again about work and as I needed extra cash I agreed to meet him to discuss this. We met in a local cafe and when I returned home I received a text from him asking me out for a drink! I replied no, and I was busy.
Later we had another meeting (I didn’t refer to his text and kept it all business) we agreed on some work I would do for him and payment terms etc, which I emailed to him to agree to. He paid me for the first bit of work, albeit I had to prompt him. For the second lot of work I had to chase him for 3 weeks for payment. He kept saying had set up payment for Fridays to my business account – when I checked no payment had been made. When I told him this, he said he would sort it out. This went on for 3 weeks. Me sending strongly worded emails or tel calls and him saying he would sort out the payment. Over that time I felt he was just playing games was not going to pay me. Eventually, he wanted to meet to another meeting to discuss work, which he cancelled on the very day of the meeting. I sent him a strongly worded email about no more work if outstanding payment and that I was disappointed that I had done work and he had not paid me according to our agreement. I asked him to pay the outstanding amount into my account before a specified date. When i checked my account that evening the cash was there. Like Nat I had a gut feeling I should have listened to. I wish I have gone with my gut and not taken on any work with this guy. In hindsight have work on my confidence and self-esteem and read Nat’s posts. I stood my ground and realised that him paying had nothing to do with me but was down to his own behaviour/issues. Also, I was still listening to my gut all the way and decided that if he paid me or…
A thought provoking post that reminds me of some of my own unanswerable questions.
A month ago I ended a connection with a man I’d known for three months. I was VERY grown-up about this one in a sense- though (or because) I was very fond of him I never jumped into the sack, was very cautious, we usually met for tea and walks!, a lovely person but certainly an EUM- he’d a logjam of incompleted and unhappy relationships with women and I was not going to get tangled up in his messes. He’s seeing a therapist, and who’s to know if he’ll pop up in the future with a cleaner life and open heart- currently I’m trying to let go of any hope that I’ll ever see him again and redirect the energy into my own life. Not easy.
Anyways. I’ve been reading Natalie’s blogs through the duration of my encounter with this man- which helped to remind me of my own bottom line. I’ve also been very observant of my own responses to the situation, sensing that there’s been very important things I need to learn about myself in this. For one- historically I’ve always pulled an Annie Oakley with a shotgun when I’ve felt emotionally threatened, and I knew, this time, I had to find another way of responding. As soon as I began to see this man was EU, my gut said ‘chop chop’ (Nat’s blog reaffirmed this), but I held back for a while. Ok maybe a teeny reason for this was to see if he’d change. But more I was trying not to react to my own uncomfortable feelings (of affection and fear, both) by nuking their external ’cause’. Now that it’s over, and we haven’t had contact for a month, I’m wrestling with how to be in the silence. This week he sent me a book in the post with a short note. I think the gesture was his way of keeping me hooked even though nothing in his end has changed. The book bugged me. I put it back in its envelope, it’s now in the storage room in my cellar. I couldn’t have it near me as if it was radioactive. At this point I’m not going to respond to him. But I don’t want to use the silence as a weapon or punishment or power trip- which I find manipulative and a bit sleazy, but I can feel myself going there because the book threw me into a spin, touched my raw feelings all over again (perhaps his intent) and so I felt threatened and angry, not by him but by my feelings, and it’s easier to attack than to feel something painful…
And so a messy…
sorrel…. I resonated with your post… Sometimes I get NC and the silent treatment mixed up in my head…. My mother used the silent treatment as punishment with me as a child and I tend to do that as a learned behaviour thru out my life… My adult children (25 & 22) joke around with me a bit that I give them the silent treatment… I am a work in progress on that and try to do better with them and others in my life with expressing why I am mad/upset with them and my reason for being so… Anyway, with the AC I have not/ and will not ever respond to him when he has sent a short email with : Hope all is well with you…. since his cheating/lying to me about it. Anyway I have no intentions of breaking NC with him but sometimes I feel like I am giving him the silent treatment out of anger and punishment to him ??? Anyone else have these feelings out there ??????????????
Hi Kit Kat,
My first time responding here cuz I love this blog. I’ll respond to you the best I could due to my own life experiences and what I’ve learned about people in general:
I think that going NC and giving the silent treatment IS essentially the same thing but it’s used for different purposes, most importantly: One is for temporary effect and the other is for permanent effect.
When you use the Silent Treatment, you cut them (anyone) off temporarily to “send a message” or punish that person, for whatever reason…hoping to get a response from them. You don’t want to stay mad and out of contact from that person forever and you do this hoping to get some kind of positive reinforcement .
You respond differently when said response/reaction you were looking for is given and IF satisfied…the silent treatment is no longer in affect. You feel better and you want continue on.
Then again…you may NOT get said response/reaction by using the silent treatment, so what has been your response to that? More pent up anger and resentment, and sometimes you end up having to swallow your pride and the next thing you know you’re back to square one with the same issues that really needed to be dealt with left unresolved.
Realize this is EXACTLY what AC’s do to people from their own perspective. They give you the silent treatment as a way to put you in your place… but when YOU are giving them the silent treatment, they somehow manage to not “get the message” and manage to turn tables all the time. It’s like they are laughing at you when they don’t feel like they are feeling punished and the truth is…they don’t, because they never cared about you or your feelings to begin with.
Think about it: If the Silent Treatment was designed to dish out punishment, keep someone at bay, or send a subliminal message that you’re pissed off at someone, then why does it never work when we are using it on the AC who seems to always come back into our lives? It kind of loses its meaning if they are not responding in kind, especially long term where they don’t change their disgusting behavior towards us.
That’s why , unlike the normal Silent Treatment, NC is designed to be permanent: They need to get gone, because they will never change as long as they keep thinking you ARE using it as some kind of fake punishment mechanism. They WILL see it as…
Right on Loveydovey!
LoveyDovey…. Thanks for responding and yes your are absolutely correct… I see by your post where the silent treatment (I really need to quit doing that) with the people that I care about is not forever , it kinda like I just want them to realize they did something that upset me…. But the NC I am dishing out to the EUM/AC is FOREVER…. and its silence no matter what he wants .. Friends is not an option , I will not be downgraded, I know he was shocked I just walked away with my head held high…Why wouldnt he be shocked , I was shocked I did it as well… So very thankful I walked or I would be one of his HAREM members… NO THANKS…. He just isnt that great
I don’t know what it is but sometimes I wonder if all this electronicalisation of our lives has something to do with it – so many ex dates, exes and ex hookups (well, they might be still active!) get sent to the ‘harem’ bin after their guy/girl is done with them. It is all too easy to manage these days with the crumb control panel that facebook is.
Natalie is right – when I go on facebook and look through my friends, SO MANY have the ex on there, even if they were a total and complete ASSCLOWN. It is like we just can’t let go anymore – we want to hold on to everyone and everything in our lives and it detracts from us.
DELETE!!
It is JUST a book.
Read the ‘It’s JUST cake’ post
Yes, you will struggle for a while with NC. I know I did for a few months…
At least he didn’t send you a wedding dress!
Nat, I’m sorry to hear about this unexpected trouble when everything seemed to be in place.
Yet, why do I get this vision of knocks on your door and tailors/designers bowing with due respect saying: “Natalie, it would be my honour to customize the dress of your dreams for you.” ? You’ve done your homework: you know your perfect fitting cut, material, price range and the date of your wedding. It just needs someone to sew it on your lovely bones.
I very much hope you’ll refuse the dress by now regardless of the makers reactions as I too think it would show – though not visibly – but a nasty stain. (BTW I wondered why this designer couldn’t do the math and see the wonderful advert opportunity coming along with your order as I am pretty sure that we will in due time be given a tiny glimpse of you in your dress.)
Since last post most definitely we won’t opt for being a harem member of hers and hoping she’ll might make our dresses when time has come for some of us
we won’t morph and pretzel to fit into her celebrity niche craving being validated with a dress of her makings.
Aside the troublesome aspect there was a smile on my face, still is, as I am very grateful you shared this with us. It means even growing out of bad habits, it’s smart to stay vigilant and if confronted with old patterns it doesn’t mean it’s all about us. It means a lot to me as you show not only brilliant talk but how committed you are to WALK your talk. PRICELESS! You incorporate and live what you are writing about and that makes you very special and trustworthy. It is a pleasure to follow you and heed as much information as possible and this post is a full-packed one! I love it and your determination! Should I see a wedding dress from now on it will have this wonderful lesson stitched into its hem.
So whatever your decision finally will be, I wish you the very best for your special day and beyond. xxx
Sorry you’ve been so stressed.
I’d like to add, that even if your bloke does come good (fat chance on any planet) there’s every chance you won’t like them half as much as you thought you did anyway, because when you look at them, you associate them with feelings of knotted tummy, migraine and tense shoulders.
Anyone who causes me too much headwork now, is like the equivalent of that boozy drink you had too much of once, and now you can’t even sniff it because it makes you retch.
I sincerely hope your dress turns up asap, and that you’re over the moon with it.
x
This is a perfect analogy!
I adore British Comedy and as an afterthought there sprang to mind a scene. In the episode “A Vicar in White” from the series “The Vicar of Dibley” lovely French Dawns character gets married. When she has her white dress on and stands outside awaiting the car to get her to church, the moment it pulls up it drives through a big puddle and she gets splashed with dirt from top to toe ruining her dress. Only minutes before the wedding takes place. All she can come up with last minute is to put on her white flowery-décor pyjamas. Absolutely hilarious!
It’s on YouTube. Maybe it puts back a smile on your face. It won’t come that far for you. Good luck, Natalie.
kit kat,
RE silent treatment vs NC (you made my muddle about it more clear, thanks)-
certainly each of us must decide how we want to be in an experience, how to respond. In trying to figure out how I want to deal with NC with this man, if I feel and act hard-assed and angry then maybe it’s a cue for me to sit with some hurt feelings rather than focussing on him as the enemy against which I use silence as a weapon. In the end, maybe too (I say this blind in the dark) none of this is really about him.
sorrel
The EUM I know has tried to send ME a book too. He emailed me for my address. Except he has written this book. And I’ve no doubt that, like the other books, there will be a cameo character in it based on me. It SEEMS nice but it’s not. Because when the chips were down, and when I needed some support, he started texting me (always the texts) about my breasts (which aren’t even noteworthy). When I forgave him for that and tried to meet up with him he texted me last minute (always the texts) that he couldn’t make it.
It’s not about being hard or using silence as a weapon (though it can be a weapon), it’s about protecting yourself from CONSTANTLY BEING LET DOWN BECAUSE IT’S ALWAYS ABOUT THEM.
Of course, your guy may be a stand up guy and a reliable friend. That’s your call. I know mine wasn’t and isn’t and should he change for the better he’ll have enough self-awareness and peace of mind to LEAVE ME ALONE . I’m just someone he has romanticised as the one who got away. Even though he dumped me. You gotta remember, when you handed it to him on a plate he didn’t want it. Now you’re out of range he feels it’s “safe” to reach out to you. Should you respond, watch him head for the hills. Rinse, lather, repeat.
Even if the man is thoroughly decent but can’t give you what you want, and if being his friend would be too hurtful, it’s OKAY to no longer have contact. It’s normal. Otherwise, our lives would be cluttered with people we didn’t quite hit it off with. That would be quite an entourage (or harem).
Sometimes being emotional available is about having boundaries and not worrying about how it looks to other people.
I agree that any deeper issues you may DON’T have anything to do with him. That said, it doesn’t mean you have to make all the flotsam and jetsam part of your life just because they send you a book.
Really, really well put, grace. So true.
You’ll look prettier in the new dress without the stress that woman is causing you.. Even if you have to start again… I’d try negotiate a discount for all the hassle. People who send a lot of texts in general tend to be quite immature and annoying, man or woman…. ( my experience:)… Have a great wedding… Sure you’ll look stunning whatever you wear!
Nat, sorry for your troubles! I hope you get it all sorted out.
Could you write a post explaining NC vs Silent treatment as quite a few of us are confused.
I ran into the ex EUM last week. I felt if I broke NC it would have been a slippery slope and we’d be back in a casual relationship.
I was proud of myself for displaying self control and he didn’t notice me. Problem is I feel childish and also feel like moving on. Not thinking of being NC and simply being!
I don’t know if we can or should be friends. I don’t really care anymore!!! Instead of thinking of it as fate or the universe bringing us together, I thought of it as a step that I didn’t fall for that trap again! Yay me!
Atrophy, silent treatment in a relationship is a form of abuse when done on a habitual basis. If you’ve broken up with someone, it’s not silent treatment, it’s moving on. No Contact is used by people who have been in unhealthy relationships and the normal route of breakup has proved to be unsuccessful, whether it’s because you have no self-control and keep opening yourself up to pain by for example, trying to be friends but having a different agenda and in fact ending up in a casual relationship, or because the other person will not respect boundaries, in or out of the relationship, leaving no choice but to cut them off, or call the police.
All healthy relationships have a period of NC after they end – it’s not called nC; it’s called getting on with your life and having the space to breathe and grieve the loss. A half decent person would not use your vulnerability post breakup to their advantage.
NC is not the same as silent treatment by a long way, unless you are using NC for inappropriate purposes which is to play games and manipulate the person into doing what you want. Then it is silent treatment by another name.
You no longer wishing to communicate after breaking up is your right. Use it.
Also read http://www.bit.ly/idnzhC
Suggesting that NC used appropriately is silent treatment is to suggest that the entire adult population is giving silent treatment to their exes. The relationship is over. Life has to move on. To expect to continue on as is, is foolhardy especially when dealing with someone who has behaved in a far from respectful manner when you were together.
NC is a choice. You either want to move on, or you want to play games. If the person was going to breakup reasonably, you’d never have to consider NC in this form in the first place.
what if they don’t give you back an appartment frontdoor key that you can’t duplicate and is expensive to replace.. Mister AC, whom I ended it with myself, thinks he can give me silent treatment (or he thinks NC) and NOT returning my key in the meanwhile. I get so angry and it keeps me stuck. I need that key, also, it makes me feel unsafe (he’s not violent but still) that he can enter the building. I don’t know what to do because I have sent him 2 emails already to ask for that key. Should I just go after it. I never want to see or hear from him again though.
Stuck
Get a Saturday job or eat potatoes and cabbage for a month. Don’t contact him anymore.
I vote for replacing the lock. Think of it as an excellent physical reinforcement of your commitment to keep this man out of your life.
Expensive perhaps, but money well spent. (If it makes you feel better, I spent thousands in therapy trying to “lock” an AC out of my life. Consider yours a bargain.)
Can you co-opt the assistance of a large male or two (colleagues, friends, or relatives) and go and doorstep him without warning? Its your property, and your security. He is taking the p***.
Stuck, I was in a similar situation. I left a sweater that my late grandmother had given me and had a lot sentimental value at my ex-AC’s place and he refused to send it back, even after I calmly explained why it was important. (Nat, you’ll recall talking me off the ledge over this!) I was livid and I think, in all honesty, it had more to do with the disrespect of the whole thing than the actual article. Yes, it sucked but I also had plenty of other things to remember my Nana by. It’s the combo of being treated poorly and then not getting something you want/need back that’s infuriating!
For what it’s worth, my father is a landlord and he has key replacement fees written into the leases, but if it’s a good tenant he waives it. If you’re in the US, you generally don’t have to fess up to being short one until the end of the lease, so if you’re able to, you could put money aside periodically and then replace it when you’re able. If this guy enters your home without your consent, call the police. Hope this helps!
Thank you for your replies! I’m weighing my options between just leaving it at that ’till the end of the lease and the fessing up to the landlord (he is actualy quite an amical guy) or indeed stopping by at his house and being ‘demanding’, telling him to give it to me ‘now’. But that’s drama all over again and really, I’m so done with that! After getting some rest these past few days and clearing my head by doing all sorts of other stuff, I’ll just let it be. If he comes by, I’ll call the cops for sure. But untill that happens, I’m going to move on. Plenty of people around to buy my leftovers (him), I’m so tired of this second hand market, I’m out. After all, he has to live with himselve and the presence of MY key, not the other way around. Thank you all and NML especially again, I’ve been visiting this site for over more than 2 years, I wish I could say I wasn’t (no harm intended, but you know what I mean) most of all, this site, you visitors and commentors, have ment so much to me. I’m still learning, but I’m a bigger girl than I was 2 years ago, 1 year ago and even last week. You all give me guidance by expressing thoughts, opinios, guidance and most of all your courage, something I have been missing since kindergarden. I appreciate it so very much!
and oh, I have changed my name, because he found me here a while ago, and has used it against me. So just want to say, to Grace in this thread, thank you for always being bluntly honest. I love it.
Natalie, you are my (s)hero. You are brilliant.
Atrophy
Butting in here, because I’m an expert in both:
Silent treatment = trying to manipulate them into calling, apologising, missing you, making a move or trying to punish them. You’re trying to get them to do something even if you don’t know what it is. All the while you’re stewing about them and you’re stuck.
NC = cutting off someone harmful and NOT EVEN WANTING them to call, miss you, or make a move, and GETTING ON with your life.
At first, it can feel muddled – am I doing the silent treatment or NC? But with boundaries in tact and your self-esteem is improving, it won’t be the silent treatment anymore; it won’t even be NC – it will just be you getting on with your new improved life and not wondering every day what a jackass is getting up to.
It’s good you don’t care. Keep not caring. There’s no need to be friends with him. It’s not a sign of strength to be friends with people who hurt you. You don’t have to do it.
grace,
An aha moment. I’m giving ‘im the silent treatment trying to detach enough for it to be NC. Not totally clean motivations but I damn well wish they were. Alot of emotional garbage stirred up on my part. But at least I’m slowly, surely, taking my attention off him and back to me.
I quit smoking three days after I ended the friendship or whatever it was, life’s been a bit intense, and sometimes I cant tell whether I’m longing for a fag or the bloke, which is funny but fitting somehow.
“It’s not a sign of strength to be friends with people who hurt you. You don’t have to do it.”
Wow. So simple, but makes so much sense. This one goes in the toolbox.
That statement clicked with me too. I sometimes catch myself ever-so-slightly doubting my choice to not be just-friends with exes, but grace just gave me the perfect rebuttal to those thoughts.
Grace, thank you for that excellent post.
Scientists say that when in love, our bodies are literally riding on the high of hormones, something like a drug addiction. Even when addictions turn sour, addicts continue to chase that good feeling until they find that the drug does more harm than good, but even that is not enough in some cases. So think about it this way, the when someone first decides to give up an alcohol addiction, he or she has to be proactive in not taking a drink because the body craves it so much. But the longer they go without, the easier it becomes and eventually they don’t have to give much thought to it at all. Even if you know that this man is bad for you, it’s still not going to take away the memories of the initial good feelings that were there. You’ll be fine, and good for you for exercising self control.
get em! I’m so happy you’re standing up for yourself regarding this shady situation. I look forward to hearing about you either getting this dress (hopefully at a discount) or finding an even better dress!!! best of luck!!!!
LOL oh wow I would have been HOT, I can’t believe someone would play around with something as important as a wedding dress. But then again, as you have also pointed out, people do just the same with other people’s feelings. I’m glad you did what you had to do and handled it respectfully.
I can’t believe someone would play around with something as important as a wedding dress.
This struck a chord with me. When we want something so badly, be it love, a proper relationship, the person that they were to return, or the intimacy, closeness and affection that they don’t want to gives, our desire to get these things, and our willingness to sacrifice ourselves at almost any cost to get these things transfers huge amounts of power to the other party, weakening our own position.
One should always have pre-defined limits. If it is too hard, it is too hard. Without these, we lose ourselves in the process.
My guide:
There are two deals to sign
- Deal 1# dating deal – we are dating, exclusive and they are interested (maximum 1 – 2 months in this zone, if no progress, see ya)
- Deal #2 relationship deal – we are in a LTR, exclusive and they commit.
I recently asked someone out who I thought might be interested because I liked them and they were giving me looks, small talk etcetra. This went on for a few weeks, until I decided that I needed to burst the bubble and EXPLICITLY ask them out (i.e. Sign up to deal #1). Well, as soon as I asked, they went cold! This is an excellent result as even though it is not the information I was hoping for, I now have the answer, and that answer is ‘fish elsewhere’.
Natalie,
We are living parallel lives because I am having weddings dress drama, too. Ack!
So glad yours got worked out.
Oh dear ((((hugs)))) I’m sorry to hear this Blaise. Have we got the same designer? Hehe. This experience has taught me that there’s nothing wrong with laying it down. I found that forcing it to a head and setting a time limit for resolution, meant that I knew there was only 24 more hours of this BS to put up with. It’s your wedding – bridal designer is selling an experience along with the dress. Some of these people like to think that they’re irreplaceable – they think that they have the power. But when you tell them to basically honour their end of the contract or shove the dress up their backside, they realise, they’re just not that special. Wishing you the best of luck with getting this resolved – keep me posted. Oh and if you need a list of other options, let me know – I was inundated with offers after people found out on Twitter and my Facebook.
Business or personal relationships. The principles are the same. Both are based in Trust, Respect and Integrity . If I treated My Clients in such a manner. I would not have a good name.
No business Man or Woman who is professional would text you if there was a problem. They would phone you direct and keep you informed. It is called “Customer Service!”
If a business treated you badly and gave you a crap service, you would complain. And yet people put up with “crappy” relationships and lousy treatment from their partners. Why?
Maybe if more people viewed their relationships through business principles, they would not make such lousy investments. Your Life is priceless. Money you can get any time.
Agree 100 times, that was what l was saying before!
You are right Ange. I have high standards when it comes to business, I thoroughly vet a client before I take them on because if not they will end up costing me money in the long run instead of the other way around. I need to start looking at a man from that angle, ‘is being in a relationship with him going to cost me or add to my life?’. Will this be beneficial to both of us? I try to do this in the beginning but somehow it goes awry and I have reluctance to pull the flush buttom for whatever reason. I do know right in the beginning what the deal is with any guy because of experience, but I will always go ‘maybe I’m wrong’, nope, havent been wrong once on my first impressions.
Well said, Ange!
There is such an opportunity cost in getting involved with bad characters. All that time squandered that could’ve been better spent in so many other ways. That to me is the truly painful part. Life is precious, peace of mind is gold.
Nat I’m using your advice in my professional world. I needed to tell a guy I didnt want his business so I phoned to tell him instead of emailing it. I am however doing the silent treatment with a lady who continuously calls to get my business even though I’ve made it clear I’m not interested and have ignored her calls.
Thanks for responses Nat and Grace. That makes a lot of sense. I was NC for the right reasons and it doesn’t feel like NC anymore, I am just getting on with life.
I choose not to be friends since he wants to keep tabs on my life and have me as his fallback girl. Thanks for all the support. I am much happier everyday in my new life!
Happy to hear you got the dress!
I was trying to eat lunch and read this post but found myself choking with laughter.
Not because what you are saying is funny by any means, but because what you are saying rings so TRUE for me too.
Especially this line…
“Ever been out with someone who is blanking you but you can see that they’ve been on Facebook with their harem or surfing dating sites? Yeah, it’s infuriating.”
He told me he was so disappointed (with life, etc.) that he couldn’t talk to anyone…but there he was on facebook every day. It seems likely that he IS disappointed and some of what he’s doing on facebook is keeping up the facade of the successful image he has created but knowing that doesn’t make me feel any better about how he’s treated me.
I always wish I had known of you BEFORE I met this guy but I guess I had to go thru the experience with him in order to find you. Your blog is one of the best gifts I got from him!
Very happy to hear the dress is now in your possession.
Can’t wait to see the photos.
If you have to chase down someone and basically make most of the effort, you’re going to get veeeerrry pissed off after a while.
Memories of 2011 when I was chasing and chasing for a crumb, makes me wonder if I’d have chased the woman for the dress up to and even past the wedding date.
My boyfriend and I have been going out for almost 5 months, we are both also older. He does not use any words of affection, he is affectionate, but hasn;t told me he loves me, too soon he says, he’ll say it when he means it. But he also doens’t say anything affectionate or intimate, and after sex he doesn’t say anything either, yet he calls me sweetie during sex. I never get a sweetie outside of sex. I have told him about my need for affectionate language and he has tried, like your hair looks nice, but nothing intimate, and he feels I am comparing him to my ex boyfriends. We have had some other issues, he feels he’s walking on eggshells around me becasue I can be abrupt or react. Yet, I am reacting to not getting the ‘love’ language in any way. I am willing to work on my part, being less abrupt, and then I guess I’ll see if things get better. I want to work on myself and this isn;t the first relationship where I ‘ve been told I’m too intense (learned behaviour from my dysfunctinal mother that mostly seems to come out with men). So, I am planning to see if he is willing to work on this with me, it will be good for me and then I’ll see where things are at. Anyone have this kind of scenerio come up for them. Glad you got your dress Nat, sounds a little like a sex in and the city episode…
In my book, there is such a difference between giving someone the silent treatment and going NC. Silent treatment means – I hope by doing this, you will realize how much you want me. NC means – I don’t give a rat’s ass. Took almost 4 years to get where I am right now. Is it easy? No way. I still struggle every day. But no way am I going to give him the “get out of AC jail” card (I so love that!). He is right where he is suppose to be and he ain’t moving. TY Baggage Reclaim – no way I could be doing this without YOU!!
“NC means – I don’t give a rat’s ass.”
LOVE IT.
Wow I haven’t been on this site in over a year but really needed to get here today just for a “REALITY CHECK” It really holds true that EUM’S can use the silent treatment into manipulating you into the position they want. Just to share a glimpse of my story of why I am here; I was talking to a guy who I met online(dating site) for about 6 months going on now. We haven’t physically ever met in person but were just about getting close to doing so this month . We are miles away from each other and he knew that when he met me. I really was straightforward off the bat that I really wasn’t too keen on a starting any kind long distance relationship but that I would give it a try and explained that any two people willing to date long distance would have to know what they are getting into. Its a “BIG Deal” especially if you are not near each other; you have to eventually take that first major step and actually MEET otherwise its just it becomes a weekly skpe/text/talk infatuation and frustration sets in and that is what we have been doing for 6 months daily until he can make the trip to see me. Can’t believe we had gone this long.
Here is a guy that has not gone one day without talking to me for the past 6 months. Just this week he gets upset (or claims to be salty) over a comment that I made through a text message earlier this week. My comment was nothing more than Oh you have a date?? He got really pissed and said that If I was so insecure and if i couldn’t handle long distance I should just find someone here in my location. I apologized to him for the comment once via text message and once by voicemail and I haven’t gotten any response. He’s giving me the silent treatment and I believe it has to be more than just him getting upset over a comment. Reality check please!!
Dear Here Again,
You haven’t even met in real life? Doesn’t it seem clear that he’s picking a fight when you say you’re “getting close to” finally meeting? Here again, I’m more interested in why you would give your valuable time every day for six months to someone you’ve never even been in the same room with. What kind of expectations do you have of this involvement? I wouldn’t call it a relationship. If he has stopped talking to you, maybe consider it a blessing and move on, before you waste another six months.
here again
You’re not in a relationship with this person. This is way too much time and headspace for something illusory. I know, I’ve been there.
And I’d like to narrow down the definition of “talk” and “chat” to sitting/standing in front of someone and seeing them with your eyes, close enough that *gasp* IF YOU REACHED OUT YOU WOULD MAKE BODILY CONTACT.
Phoning is acceptable as a back up to the above.
Messaging need not apply.
He is Mr Unavailable!
FLUSH!! RUN!!
He’s sleeping and dating other people – you aren’t even exclusive, love, care, and intimacy and progression is missing here. This is a fantasy! I’ve BEEN here, and it is nothing but PAIN in the long run.
As for blowing up over something little – he wants out and he is desperately trying to find something – ANYTHING – to not only get out, but give him the cover that he needs to pin the blame on you. These guys don’t take responsibility – ever – and it is ‘buyer beware’. CUT HIM OFF AND LOG OFF!!
Excellent Natalie, it’s great you got the dress and the drama has ended. I also like the distinction between the dress and the person. It certainly isn’t the dress itself that caused the problems. It was the person who is responsible for the issues, not the dress! Nice.
For some reason this post has had a profound affect on me. As I thought about your reluctance to start the dress search all over again, it really struck me. I’m not a fan of clothes shopping and I’ll do anything to avoid it. Even though the break occurred a while back, I realize I’ve been staying stuck in order to avoid the search for my life (plus or minus a him). Staying stuck has been an avoidance technique just like I’ll avoid clothes shopping at any cost. I could feel your reluctance to start the dress search all over again. I see I’m feeling reluctant to start the search all over again and staying stuck is convenient, although it’s getting really boring.
Your analogy with denying, rationalizing, and minimizing shady behavior in relationships because he’s the one, just like the dress was the one, also helped me. Once I drag myself out clothes shopping, inevitably I find the perfect outfit but it’s never in my size. So rather than face the fact it’s too big, I buy it anyway, take it home, and then have to face the sad fact, it doesn’t frigging fit. I keep the stuff because one day I may gain weight and it’ll fit! You see why this post affected me. Combined with my Taurus stubbornness, I do the same blessed thing with guys. I know at the outset, he doesn’t “fit” but I take him home anyway determined to make him “fit”. Of course, that doesn’t work. Then I used to keep them around just in case one day they spontaneously combust into the perfect fit. Your previous post regarding the issues surrounding committing to the dress also resonated with me.
I’m sorry you had to go through the stress and drama but I really appreciate your willingness to share and, as always, the brilliant insights you provide. Your wedding dress may have provided me with the insight to get out of stuck. Dying to see it and I”m happy for you.
I felt very different today after thinking about this post. I could see from the outside that you will be gorgeous no matter what dress you select and there are many beautiful dresses out there. But I could see that from the…
Oh, I’m really glad you got the dress
Hurray!
Really thought-provoking article as well – thank you.
Agree Natalie! That dress is a material item and cant hurt anyone. I’m glad it worked out and you got it. Wonder if it had something to do with you blogging about it…hmmmm.
Thanks Natalie and glad to hear that you got your dream dress.
I’m a single mum, separated 4 years ago and only started dating last year because I needed to search myself gain courage to put myself out there.
Your articles have really given me some insight to walk with my eyes wide open when dating. I have been on 2 relationships and have been able to detect the AC and EUM behaviours hence not allowing the candidates to string me along and waste my time. Thanks once again.
Nat so glad you got your dress, can’t wait to see you in it. You’re so right the problem wasn’t the dress it was with the designer. I think you can say that about alot of problems, you have to find out what the real problem is and alot of times its not what you originally thought.
When’s the big day??
@Grace
I never said we were in a relationship. It wasn’t a relationship to begin with and we clarified that until we actually were going to meet we both knew that we were just “TALKING” as friends for THOSE 6 MONTHS.
@Magnolia
You are right . Its like NOW he is picking the fight (making a crazy comment something that wasn’t so petty all OF A SUDDEN its NOW a “BIG DEAL” when it really wasn’t.) He blew that out of proportion which really makes me think that he knows that we really have been talking 6 months; “FRUSTRATION AND REALITY HAS SET IN” and now HE KNOWS VERY WELL in his mind that it is pass timing to make an effort to see each other and BOOM HE dissapears. And the craziest thing is we had already clarified that we wanted to continue talking and he said he wouldn’t have continued talking to me this long if he wasn’t interested.
I know that I have to move on from this “emotional” roller coaster that I am dealing with. I even sent out one last email to him this morning just giving it a last shot to ask what was the problem of him not responding cause we were just talking and skyping three nights ago. And no I haven’t been calling and hounding his phone so that is why I sent out an email. It just doesn’t add up to me. And yes I know the I should not have emailed him. I am moving on from here. I cannot believe that I set my own self up for this 6 month ILLUSION that wasn’t going to lead to anything. If it was going anywhere we should have agreed to meet much sooner than now. He sent me so many pictures of his family; his daughter who I guess I will never get the chance to meet now and it breaks my hurt. He did most of the pursuing and the only thing we hadn’t done was an actual face to face meet. I would have rather for him to had just tell me that he is no longer interested and he never game that indication. We were on skype Monday just talking; laughing and just having great conversation like any other time and two days later he disaapears; and completely shuts own me. Right now my heart is Heavy and Hurting but I have to look at this for what it really is and MOVE ON. OUT OF MIND OUT OF SIGHT..
here again
Messaging etc via technology for six months is a sign that he is VERY FIRMLY holding you in the place that he has allocated for you. My concern is that HE WILL BE BACK. They ALL do this. They retreat when you make them uncomfortable (you got too close, you called them out, you stepped out of your “box”, you didn’t play nice) or something comes along (ex, new squeeze, “pressure”, the wind changes). Then, when they think you’ve learned your lesson, or they need an ego stroke, or a laugh, or flirtation, or the new squeeze turns out to be a psycho (funny that), or they’re a bit bored, they’re back.
Until WE can decide for OURSELVES what it is we really want and what our limits are, we’re forever at the mercy of whoever comes along with a few crumbs.
You’re focused on the SIX MONTHS. I too thought it meant something that certain “situations” were carrying on for significant lengths of time. I don’t want to present myself as a sob story, but you really don’t want to end up at my age with a relationship history strewn with non-things that went on months or years. The only significant thing about most of them was the waste of time, really and truly. In the grand scheme of things, six months can be written off to experience and if you can learn not to repeat the mistake, it’s no real harm done.
I don’t do internet dating but the general consensus from those who are doing it and SERIOUSLY looking for a relationship is to meet SOON. I think they learned that from being burned like you have.
And these men never tell you that they’re not interested in anything serious either. They ALL just waft off and drift back as it suits them.
Everything you describe is standard operating procedure right down to the daily contact and show ponying their children. It’s depressing, yes, but at least it’s not just you!
Fantasy relationships ALWAYS have four elements
1. Distance, in space or in time
2. A moderating excuse that controlls the flow of information/contact
3. Crumb communication
4. FAIL THE TOUCH TEST – can’t physically touch them on three different days of the week consistently
I have to say, NML’s wedding dress communications so far meet this model. My limit is now set to 1 month. If they haven’t signed deal #1 or deal #2 or any deal for that matter, FLUSH!
I’m offline as well. It took 9 months to get over the fantasy, and the last 3 months since then have been bliss compared to the shite I put up with. Constant excuses and disappointments and that rollercoaster feeling. In fact, the presence of excuses is a BIG giveaway!! RED FLAG!!
@ Magnolia @ Grace
We are both miles away. He lives in VA and I live in Atlanta. Just wanted to clarify that. But if you are serious about MEETING you have to do just that; MEET. That is the mistake that we both made.
@ Grace
Thanks a bunch cause after just having a crying spell earlier (in front of my best friend- My mother who knew something was bothering me and she also knew that he and I had been talking for a while with hopes of getting a chance to soon MEET). I feel alot better now and I had to let it out. My mommy so understands. She told me that honey no man is going to cut you off completely from a comment and there are some other “DEEP ROOTED ISSUES” going on in him so count it as a “BLESSING”. Its funny that you mentioned my concern is “HE WILL BE BACK”
@ Grace I also did myself a favor today and blocked his number so that if he ever does decide to “COME BACK”; I will never know.
God’s Child
Here Again
@tired_of_assanova
you are so on point with the 4 elements of a “FANTASY RELATIONSHIP” and it should never take that long. I like your concept.
Absolutely….Flush right down the drain!!!
Natalie,
You are awesome and I LOVE reading you; I watch my email for the next one…
Great post. What about the relationship that has all the hallmarks and landmarks, and words and actions match only to discover 8 months in that he has been lying behind my back the whole time and seeing other women. Is there anyway I could have protected myself? There were no red flags at all, unless you would consider him not having any pics of us together on his Facebook, claiming he was a private person and dint want to display our relationship so publicly. I ended it as soon as I found out, but feel I have invested 8 months with a chameleon. I have just chalked it up to experience, but don’t want to find myself in this situation again. has anyone else experienced this?