A few years back, a longtime couple finally got married after a gazillion years together (OK a couple of decades or so), kids, abuse, affairs, outside kids, and a steady, unrelenting devotion by her that would make your eyes water in disbelief – they say love is blind, but it’s more like pain, denial and low self-esteem is blind. His harem members (and there were many) were shocked and there was plenty of speculation, gossip and a helluva lot of mourning and feeling rejected going on.
I see this going on in the comments and stories readers share with me:
They can’t believe that their ex has ‘changed’ and practically want to run a sting operation to prove it. It’s either that or they want to take ‘revenge’ for them treating them badly under ‘false pretences’ and for (in their relationship) being a violation of the Trade Description Act because it ‘turns out’ they were wonderful and they got a bad deal. Then they wonder What’s wrong with me?
They’re convinced that their ex has spontaneously combusted into The Best Person That Ever Walked The Earth Who Has Also Practically Walked On Water ™.
- What was wrong with me?
- Should I have waited longer?
- Was it in my imagination?
- Maybe I was oversensitive?
- It’s because I’m not good enough. Maybe if I looked ________ or had _________ or did _________ I could have had that ‘happy ending’ instead.
They feel crippled by this idea that somebody who they termed as being a ‘narcissist’ and ‘abuser’ (or assclown) has ‘changed’. “Damnit! I’ve spent most of my adult life trying to give salvation to someone who has walked on me like a doormat and who is totally unworthy of my time because I felt like I would be good enough and now they’ve been able to save/fix/heal/help them! I’m worthless!”
Incidentally my inbox is full of emails from women and men essentially asking me why they’re not getting empathy from someone they call a narcissist or an assclown. Er, isn’t ‘empathetic narcissist’ (or assclown) an oxymoron? It’s like specifically buying a Fiat Punto and going “But I want it to be a BMW.” If you want empathy and a relationship, you’re barking up the wrong tree with a narcissist. Ironically, I don’t think we realise that when we expect to be made the exception to the rule and a psychological rule at that…it’s delusions of grandeur.
But I digress…
So this woman who ‘finally got her man’ and her ‘happy ending’ (nausea alert), what is her relationship now? She’s married to someone who continues to do a number of the things that he did when they weren’t married and she’s now a married woman with a harem in the background. Really, is that ‘winning’?
I’ve heard and seen this story thousands of times and it’s sad that outsiders looking in persecute themselves as if someone who is ‘mighty special’ has gotten away. I think we fail to realise that by being involved with someone who would treat us without love, care, trust, and respect and even get their way by force, we’re pumping them up and when we knowingly participate in a harem, we boost them into the stars.
When you’re beating yourself up for not changing someone who treated you in a less-than manner and envying the person who has ‘settled down’ with them, you’re guilty of wanting validation, to be chosen, to be given a title without really giving due consideration to where this all really fits into the bigger picture.
You either want the title to make it ‘legitimate’ to accept the problems, or you want the title because you think it’s going to magically eradicate the problems.
You also want to ‘go back in time’ and ‘undo what’s been done’ by having another shot or even practicing so-called ‘new habits’ on the old relationship. “Oh if we were together again, I’d do this and this and that.” If you’re still hankering to road test a new you on a previously code red relationship, it’s safe to say that you have some more road to travel.
What’s the point in ‘going back’ just to try and be ‘right’ and make you feel better about previously dubious choices? You’d get over any previous experiences if you left the harem and worked on the bigger issue at hand – Why, even in the face of being treated in a certain way by somebody and even knowing that they have fundamental issues that are a barrier to a relationship, are you still there trying to go back and obsessing about them, when you could be addressing why you were with them in the first place and mending that?
The reason why you want to be believe that they’ve changed is because it fits into your tendency to blame you. Why else would you do it? It’s like forgetting that their character was self-evident in the relationship with you. In fact, it seems like you’ve forgotten that they have a separate identity because you’re going “I can’t believe they’ve changed – what’s wrong with me?” when the first half of the sentence was talking about a person who is entirely separate to you.
What’s ‘wrong’ with you if you really want to get it down to a ‘wrong’ thing is actually that you’re not changing. Your perspective, your habits haven’t shifted ‘since them’, but they can do. Take the focus off them and bring it (positively) back to you. You don’t own a person whether they change or not. You don’t have ‘copyright’ over their assholery.
Your thoughts?
About the Author:
Natalie Lue is the founder and writer of Baggage Reclaim and author of the books Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship and more. Learn more about her here and you can also follow her on Facebook and Twitter - @baggagereclaim .
Natalie (NML) – who has written 1084 posts on Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue.
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we’re becoming stronger women! the comments are excellent. ? had been going thru hell since a breakup with an EUM who really made me feel like I was the one that wasnt good enough or together enough. After months of agonizing over all the details and how he found a girlfriend so fast after reading all your comments and Nat’s articles I realized that he’s been the one that wasnt good enough for a relationship with me or anyone for that matter because he is so messed up. you learnthat just because he looks good on the outside and has his harem of women/ acquaintances who stroke his ego because he was a musician/made good sushi and made good small talk doesnt mean he’s good. He had and i’m sure still has such a high opinion of himself and ironically read alot of self-improvement/meditation books (but never really seemed to have feelings-kept a distance from even his family even when he was physically there.) And so the latter also had me convinced that maybe he was ‘enlightened’ and I really was unworthy and that’s why I was treated this way. In hindsight I understand that he was/is in major denial and his air of holier than though will never get him anywhere in life. At one point i even stalked him on Facebook and found his new girlfriends profile. And i saw that he was emotionally unavailable with her too and just because he put ‘?n a relationship’ as his status (which he hadnt with me) doesnt change the fact. At first that used to distress me so much-thinking that she mustve had ‘it’ or was more worthy than me. But now I know the truth. The truth is like Nat said even if you give these types of guys steak they’re still not gonna appreciate it wont matter. Because its not about us. ?t’s about them and their effed up issues and their attitude and denial. Our main fault is believing it’s a reflection of our worthiness or lack thereof. And our other fault is not having cut them off as soon as we saw him treating us with a lack of respect. So hang in there and again I am so glad I found this site! thanks
Thinking that an ex has changed and has suddenly started bestowing mature affection, honesty and respect on someone else or is even capable of it when WE offered it and wanted it has been a major preoccupation of mine since my long term marriage ended. He was a very detached, emotionally undeveloped person with few boundaries, no sense of self, no understanding of me, passive, never had done any work on self (although had been dragged to therapy and told that) so was in another world (his own) for most of our marriage.
I tried to change things, worked hard at it, justified staying in etc. Even after the separation we were determined to “do it right” to be supportive and caring, respectful blah blah blah and even be together with our adult children etc. We share a business so NC is very difficult at least at this early phase.
He really holds the record for moving on quickly which is pretty amazing because he is not an AC by accepted definitions. It took just twelve hours after I dropped him at the airport to start an emotionally intimate relationship with the much younger woman he was sitting beside on the plane and, when he landed, to start pursuing her with all the eagerness and techniques of a 12 year old boy by email. She was oh so sympathetic to what a great guy he was, and I guess like him had no warning signs that clicked into place.
These emails were sent through our business address which meant that I saw the whole beginnings of it…and it was totally totally unexpected. I was going to spend some time with him and my daughter a week later so this would have been in my face (he was working hard to meet her again). It actually still makes me sick to think about what I felt when I saw those emails…like a hand grenade had been lobbed into my life… traumatic response is the only way I can describe it…..
I couldn’t understand why I was reacting in such a powerful way when I don’t want to be married to him anymore and it wasn’t “jealousy” about the woman…it really wasn’t.
Of course I did see the intimacy he was bestowing on this woman he didn’t even know and that was not real – it was painful to see this over the top stuff when this was the guy that said to me when our marriage ended “I thought we were just used to each other and that would see us through!”
It was the fact that he talked about ME to her and that got him brownie points. it was the fact that he denied it was emotional intimacy and that he didn’t seem to “get” that my daughter and I were arriving on the scene, that I would SEE this email right in my face blah blah blah.
But the trauma mainly came from ALL the things this liaison symbolized for me. In one fell swoop all those feelings of anger, loss, not feeling ever safe, not feeling heard or really known as a person, sucking stuff up for the kids, for the business etc., not having a real partner, protecting myself from his lack of boundaries, feeling estranged and shut down, having to make all the decisions etc. all came together in one great soaring ball of flame.
I think that the leave-taking, the other woman, our perceptions that he is making it good now…just represent a combination of our grief, sense of betrayal, our loss, our anger – and even our anger at ourselves for putting up with it. (well speaking for me!)
I really thought because I was the leaver and had grieved so much IN the relationship that I didn’t have a “lot left to do.” I know now that the grief is inevitable and I have to go through it and I am….I am better than I was 4 months ago.
In the end one of the things I have really tried to hold onto is, it is all about them….his actions weren’t about me, they never had been and that was part of the problem…he lacked so much “consciousness” that he everything he did reflected that. (and part of “that” was not understanding himself or how he affected me).
Of course it isn’t as simple as that, because we are IN these relationships and things that happen do affect us deeply…but I think really “getting this” (I am not completely there yet) is the key to leaving these traumatic and dangerous relationships behind.
i am so sorry you’re going through this xoxo
Expresso
I can only imagine how painful it must have been to have him immediately latch on to someone else like that. However his actions are surely a reflection of his own blind panic and terror at being alone rather than any genuine connection. You cannot build up intimacy through emails, there are many here who can attest to that faux intimacy. At some point his immediate neediness will wane a little and he’ll be faced with another real human being with her own thoughts and feelings other than being a comfort blanket and ego stroking object and she will come up against his EU ness just as you did.
I was used in this way by an MM who was being ejected from his marriage – perhaps for the same reasons, nothing he said on that topic made any sense at all.
He also “wooed” me intensely by email.
It did not go well for me either and I am still picking up the pieces of my shattered confidence and self esteem. Ive learned certain things about myself, but it has been a hard lesson.
I don’t know if this is any consolation to you but I don’t see that this “relationship”, if it deserves such a title, has the remotest chance of going anywhere other than causing a huge amount of pain for the other woman.
A man who has so little insight into his own behaviour and such disregard for the feelings of his family cant give anyone anything real.
Wow espresso, thats quite insensitive. Are you sure he wasn’t blowing it in your face on purpose? (not that he’d admit to that though right?).
Just keep your decorum, you’ll be alright, it shall come crashing down soon enough. Not sure how this would work, but you could ask him to keep his private business away from work emails. I think that is totally ok for you to do. Up to you though.
This girl is messing with a newly divorced/seperated man, she doesn’t know much about letting him get over things before going in for the relationship.
Espresso, much of what you wrote I could have written myself. My long term marriage to an emotionally distant man ended a couple of years ago — it was a very complicated relationship. He was dating the day after we split and then he moved away from me and our daughter and now he’s already engaged to be married. He moved on quickly. I initiated the split from him because I couldn’t take the issues anymore with him being EU and no boundaries and not really there for me but he never fought to keep me and work things out. He seems happy as pie now with the new woman and they have all this personal time together to build their relationship. Meanwhile, I’m a single mom with not a lot of time for me or a new relationship. I struggle now with assclowns and men I can’t feel anything for. It has taken a long time to heal for me and I continue on the healing journey. I have come a long way though in the past year. It takes time.
So sorry!!!!
Stay strong!
Lawrence …I agree with what you write. As I’ve learned more about myself, I see how “verminish” my own behavior has bee, at the time totally unbeknownst to me. (I always totally blamed the other party.) Recognizing how disconnected I was, I find it to forgive ones in my past AND myself. I too believe they can change. I did. I wish that for them. That disconnect, feeling shitty or treating others shitty, I would wish for no one. I wish that for them because we all have a right to happiness, not because I still feel an attachment, love, or my ego is involved. That’s what works for me, I feel I’m at a more healthy spot now. No verminizing necessary, though I can spot em a mile away. And I pray for them from a safe distance. Lol!! That doesn’t make me good or them bad, but different. Different goals, values, thought processess. And not what I find attractive anymore.
The opposite spectrum is putting someone on a pedestal and not seeing them for who they are as well. I’ve done this. Either because I want to be bigger person, handle it with grace (for others to see) OR I don’t want to admit I made a grave err in judgement, because then I would have to admit there’s something in me that needs serious addressing. (Ego … that’s a hard pill to swallow.) Then it can’t be “He doesn’t like my cats in the bed, I can’t deal with his incessant talk of his ex, he doesn’t want kids.” I wasn’t meeting the wrong men for me, I was PICKING them!!! And crying and whining and justifying and verminizing and putting them on a pedestal. VERY PAINFUL yet so empowering when that clicked. Then I could get to the real issue: me. And I could fix me. True freedom, joy, and knowing I will be just fine no matter what. And feeling safe to trust my own judgment. And to really, REALLY love. On all levels (children, family, friends, coworkers, my patient) and most importantly me. Not perfectly, but safely, something I’d never felt before. Thats how I feel.
Ladies,
Can I get in on this “ex-as-musicians” thing too? He he. *puts hand over eyes and shakes head* Oy.
My ex of five years ago was (is?) a musician, and since I’m a writer, I felt that we did understand each other on a different level. His exes all, in some form or another, demanded that he put them before his music. I didn’t. I got it. “It’s important to you. It’s how you express yourself,” said I, and meant it. “It’s part of who you are.” Of course, on the flip side, he didn’t like it much when I told him I’d pick my writing over him.
What’s funny about this is that the last AC (5/6 months back) was NOT a musician, but he tried to woo me early on by playing his guitar and singing. I think he got rather intimidated by my lack of wonderment, after I chimed in by singing harmony, and then casually let on that I had dated a couple of (working) musicians in the past. Yep, a couple of Nirvana and Pearl Jam songs picked on a guitar does not a musician make. Nor does it get me all hot and bothered. Sheesh.
The next time a dude pulls out his guitar and tries to go all “sensitive, creative guy” on me, I’m gonna hit the road. De.Nied.
Seems to be a lot of ex AC musicians. Could be because they work in a bar most of the time, love the ego strokes from trashy, desperate women. And even if they’re not that good… they are a legend in their own mind, they actually think they’re the next Bruce Springsteen, lol. Ughh.. makes me sick just thinking about it.
My ex always put his music first. Spent most of his $ he’d make at his actual job on studio time, etc… it’s not that I wanted to be first, but to be as equally important. We never went on vacation for years because he needed the $ for studio time, or… his house, or his pets.. yada, yada… he was first. Always.
So, I opted out, found a ‘real’ man.. not this ‘artist-type-legend in their own mind’, and we’re already planning a vacation together.
I have nothing against musicians, or people who are very passionate about being creative, but it seems more often than not, there are some pretty selfish/narcissistic ones out there. Statistically, their marriages don’t last very long. Just look at the famous musicians that you know of… how many times have they been divorced? not easy being with a die hard musician…
I love that my now bf has zero artistic abilities, lol. His passion… volunteering his time in the Red Cross, doing for people, not the other way around, in addition to his full time sales job traveling all over the state.
Quite a difference being w a selfless person who doesn’t think all high and mighty of himself and takes people for granted. We live in NJ, and for the past week all he’s been doing is driving around delivering food and water to people in need. I can imagine my ex.. strumming his guitar by candlelight… with some trashy chic next to him and his bong. lol.. so glad that’s over!!
Seriously, there’s so much better out there, just open your mind and your eyes!
Lelia , my ex mm was a musician , he wasnt married when i was first with him but its only six yrs later i clicked after coming on here bout hareem . He puts his band above all eles kids wife , everything very very selfish , loves gigging four nights out if seven because people both men and women blow smoke ip his bum . When he at wk hes mr average and he hates that . He has never grown up or matured and does what he does because he gets away with it , hes been caught with first wife and thrown out , got trapped by second girl coz she got pregnant three months into rlship started cheating on her a yr and hlf in and even though he married her has always cheated on her . Hell get caught and keep doing it till he can pull no more or he changes , times running out as he approaches his forties , you could never ever trust him he lies to everyone . Let someone eles be eaten up with the pain wondering who he texting, why he taking so long after a gig , etc etc a throughly nasty using piece of work . There are decent musicians out there but as everyone says you can tell by first few encounters wether someone is decent , i choose to go there knowing , no one put a gun to my head and i got burned till i looked b b q . Lol but thats my karma and now i have a fresh start to be a better person and choose a decent guy x hugs x
I couldn’t help but comment on your post. My ex EUM was a musician. Sounded like you were describing him to a t! except, he’s not married, we never were… just together for years. But there was always a few in the background. If he wasn’t getting his ego stroked about his music, and being the ‘lead singer’, he really wouldn’t know what to do with himself. It’s his life (he hates his average every day job), and nothing and no one gets in the way of it. Yes, I just finally woke up and got rid of an ego-maniac, narcissistic musician. Never again.
Leila, Tired, Demke — my ex EUM was also a musician! And I am, too. We met at a gig, and we really “clicked” in performance. I know from experience that the magic musical chemistry of performance rarely translates to “real life” beyond the stage and studio. And that’s ok – it doesn’t have to. But in my case, it seemed to. And it was very powerful.
What is confusing is that the wonderful magic stuff that a really good artist produces on stage is truly authentic in that it comes directly from some authentic place inside them, and that is what we respond to in the artists we love and admire. And yet, even though this quality is “true”, it does not necessarily mean they can manifest this quality anywhere else in their lives. Some artists do, many don’t.
My ex EUM was a generous, sensitive, attentive team player as a musician – ok, all professionals are to some extent or else they don’t work much. But he was really good. And, he also could light up the stage as a soloist/front man, with real depth and honest emotion of all kinds. Sublime. Very special. In real life? Kinda. Sometimes. Not sure. Good enough semblance for me to get hooked and confused.
Does this resonate with you? Maybe it doesn’t apply to your cases. I guess my point is that I hope you don’t beat yourselves up for being confused by the “performer” aspect of him. You may have been responding to something real, but ultimately irrelevant.
In my case (yes, now back to ME! I sound like my ex EUM!) part of the loss for me in cutting off the EUM is that I lose the really fruitful artistic collaboration we had. We are from different “worlds” and loved the cross-over exploration and growth. This was real and very nourishing and rewarding. And it adds to my overall confusion about him and us.
Maybe not very cogent – I am just thinking this through myself. You ladies are great. SallyJ
sally j
i think because they are used to performing they are so at ease with people .the ex mm was most confident behind a guitar , in average day life he just blends in . It gave him a reason to go out gig night and be free from responsibilty, as he would say ” i love it i go out have a laugh and no hassle ” hes been doing it years and flirting years so well practise . he doesnt have swarms dont get me wrong but he got a eye for the unhappy housewife , thats how he does it. Sally do what im doing if you love music , get out there enjoy it for yourself. im taking guitar at evening class and have promised myself to get up and do a song at a jam night . i think thats why i dated a couple of musos because i wanted to be what they are . hugs to you
I think emotionally unavailable people with a string of disastrous relationships decide to commit fully to someone only because they start to get self-conscious and concerned about their own behaviour. After many years of short-lived relationships, they know they are screwed up but don’t want to be seen as the screwed up guy in their network of friends and family. So, they grab the next available, good enough woman and make do. Of course, they’re still the same insincere loser, but instead of future faking, they’re faking true commitment. They’re just getting their needs met as usual – but this time the need is to appear normal, have the status of being married, make parents happy, or whatever.
When I read your post Kerry, I said, WOW. I believe that could possibly be the case with the last guy I was with. He was in his 50s, never married and very visible with his work and practically the only one in his circle that wasn’t or has never been married. Your reasoning sounds much more logical and right then my thinking that he woke up the day we split and decided to act like a person.
Kerry – thanks for this insight. My ex EUM had been divorced for 8 years when I met him. His ex wife had re-married. I remember he questioned me very closely once about people I knew who were divorced and re-married: ages, how many years between marriages, how many relationships between marriages, etc. I didn’t have much info to give him. I know he wanted to be married, and was sad that he had had a string of relationships that he considered “unsuccessful”.
The emotionally intimate affair between the ex and woman on plane ended after three months. They never met, although he pushed for that. However, he did begin to realize he had “a few problems”in terms of carrying this on and that she might start making demands. He carried on his insensitivity to me right until the end though by being more concerned about hurting her feelings, when he decided to cut it off. I think he mainly did it because he could see that he had started something he could not finish with her…rather than any clear insight about himself. He says he was just trying to “connect” with people, and he didn’t have any boundaries. Damn it, I have excused SO much of what he did.
Was he blowing this in my face on purpose? Good question. I don’t want to be naive but I actually, unbelievably think he was SO detached, so unconscious..(at the far far far end of this continuum) that he thought he had the right to completely disappear me even while chatting about how important it was for us to have a “fine relationship.” It was deplorable and disgusting and traumatizing that his knowledge of emotions, of relationships, of himself was so poor that he was like a blind person. Well, I made excuses for him, didn’t I?
Of course she, the woman on the plane, was only too willing to share the fantasy. Within a few weeks she was writing that she was thinking of him every day…that she would never forget him..that meeting him was something she would remember as very very special in her life…that her relationship with him could have been a real love etc. ..go figure. So he was the DRIVER of that relationship…of course he was. But she was crazy herself…or didn’t want to hear the true story that he was just separated and we were still in contact.
Being stupid or underdeveloped or mean, selfish and egotistical and abusive….doesn;’t make much difference to the victim…although it did confuse me. I never could write him off as an AC. But perhaps in the end he is because I experienced him as cruel, mean, egotistical and selfish anyway.
Anyway, he has now gone to therapy on his own, for himself and seems to be serious. Far too late for me/us but hope it works for him. The degree to which I can have contact with him in the future is something I need to decide and it will likely depend on whether he has evolved to some degree….
Expresso,
It doesn’t sound like he had any regard for anyone’s feelings – if he cared at all for hers he would not have led her up the garden path. At some level he must have known he was just off on a frolic to distract himself and provide some pain relief from his real life.
She may appear crazy to you but this happens a lot and I would characterise it as more foolish and naive. I see it more as having fallen for a con trick. Wanting to make easy money, and ignoring the red flags and abandoning prudence.
It sounds as though whatever he does or doesn’t do being around him at all is likely to be very painful. Perhaps a long period of NC to focus on yourself and build a new life, and then decide at the end of it whether you still are interested in any kind of friendship. As you say whether he is or isn’t an AC isn’t really the issue.
My mother had about 15 years NC with my father after their divorce and never looked back.
I can see that the ex mm hasnt changed as i look back he same with everyone just i couldnt see it , i think if id gone more gigs id seen it sooner , im glad in one way i didnt as i kept my own life my own i. Id be in a worser state if i had followed him around with his hareem . I wouldnt see it , and the hardest part as i go nc is tallying the man in the last few months , with the man bf. thsts the bit thst hurts the most how cruel he was , and how someone ive known for six yrs can just forget you just lke that . Men can switch off and judt get on with it , women tend to think think think. But it is getting better il know ill off days , but i catch myself laughing or singing or smiling and im okay , those last few months i was crying smoking , losing weight , fretting , anxious etc and id rather have all this hurt than anymore of that .x heres to week two of nc
Wow. Tired, I have to comment again because I never wanted to go to the ex’s gigs either. I think sub-consiously I was protecting myself. I didn’t want to see what was really going on behind my back. I couldn’t stand that his ‘gigs’ were a major source of his ego-stroking. I’m glad I don’t have to deal with that anymore.
he has very low self steem away from band , hes a mr average , hes been very fat and thin and fat . as he gets older and greying and receding the band provides him with the disatisfied women out there to flirt with , oh he loves being centre of attention. makes out he he cant leave coz of kids he always out gigging he doesnt have to but in his fantasy hes out like a single man. i look at it hes stays married and unhappy but cheating and will get caught or leave and do they same to someone eles with more mess , ie maintenance etc to pay thus staying in job he hates to pay for it all. plus ow then gets a dose of whats it like to have him all time and excitment soon wears off . ill get over it early stages for me but i can see ill be very careful if i date a muso again .or anyone any red flags and even if it hurts im walking . like to say i admire the gitl on here that got up and just left ac sat there , thats me in future .x
“That doesn’t dispute the bad behaviors in any given relationship, or dismiss the harm done, but it does, I think, allow for the possibility of self-redemption. However that kind of redemption, I’m sure, only comes with LOTS of hard work and dedication. It’s often neither easy nor pleasant to face oneself squarely in the mirror.” – Lawrence
Totally agree. However, what most of us are struggling with is believing that these men have in fact changed and continuing to internalize of all the wrong in the relationship. Clearly in order for one to change, as you have pointed out, takes time, hard work and introspection. These men go from one “relationship” to the next , uninterrupted and we are still questioning ourselves. Where’s the time for change? Where is the space for redemption?
The EUM/AC I was with became engaged to on-again/off-again ex-girlfriend, turned so-called friend of 15 years less than 5 days after we stopped seeing each other. Rather, I heard he was engaged that soon after; obviously he proposed BEFORE we were officially done. Aside from being completely humiliated and hurt, I thought I’d been the one who finally pushed him into marrying her. Hence “He’s changed…what’s wrong with me.”
Hindsight is 20/20 and of course there were code amber warnings I didn’t heed. Here was a man in his early 50s, 2 children with 2 different women, never been married and had only briefly lived with the woman he was off/on with for 15 years, had a harem, dated several woman that he’s worked with and had not been able to have a consistent long term relationship. He could not cook or do his laundry and when he was without a woman in his life, his mother would pick up the slack and cook dinner for him and do his laundry. I damn sure wasn’t cooking for him every night and told him he hadn’t earned the right for me to do in such a brief relationship. Also, I was the only woman that’s he dated in the past 30 years that he’s never slept with. So in hindsight, I did recognize something was off and did try to protect myself from getting burned too badly, but it wasn’t enough.
When we started dating, he told me that he had been broken up for over a year and he had dated other women before me. I thought it was safe to proceed. He told me he wanted to finally feel settled, etc. When I questioned him about his past relationships, some of them lasting several years, I realized that hey overlapped with the time he was supposedly in this 15 year relationship with his now-wife. When I questioned him about it, he stated that there were times when they were apart. I didn’t buy it, but I went along with it.
Still, I have questions. Did he really just suddenly realize after 15 years that she was “the one?” Did he want to get married, just not to me? Did he just marry her because she was essentially a doormat and put up with his crap as long as she had a title? At one point, while were dating, she vandalized his car, blocked him in his driveway and begged/cried for them to get back together. She’s in her late 40s/early 50s. Or did he marry her to further his political career to appear more stable? I know she was aware, of these other women. It’s not like he didn’t go outside with them. Some were booty calls clearly or jump-offs as we say in the U.S., but others had met his mother, children, siblings, etc. One of the reasons they broke up the last time was because she demanded that he marry her, according to him, which may give credence to Natalie’s statement that either the title makes it okay to accept the problems or will make them go away.
I do suffer from “If It Were Me I’d…” so while it may be hurtful, it’s easier for me to believe that it is true love and that he’s rewarding her for her loyalty. After all, I wouldn’t marry someone unless I was head-over-heels in love and certainly would never string someone along for over a decade. Since we did work together and many of my female co-workers were in the harem, it further fed into my belief that he was in fact THAT special and validated the fact that I was THAT special that he’d expressed interest in dating me. He could have anyone wanted after all. It was often remarked that maybe I would be the one to FINALLY make him settle down. I.ATE.ALL.OF.IT.
My older male friends are telling me that 1.) it doesn’t take 15 years to recognize true love; 2.) yes, some men do string women along for years; and 3.) he likely hasn’t changed and got married to appear more stable to further his political career. Incidentally, a month before things ended and the engagement, a scandal involving him dating an employee of his political rival erupted in the local paper since she was subsequently fired by her boss and filed a lawsuit against the city. This woman, who I was aware he dated, said she had a romantic relationship with him for over 7 years,(mind you he and ex were only broken up for a year at this point) and her boss was aware of it and since they were rivals, fired her for it once their rivalry became ugly…VERY MESSY.
Clearly he now looks like the stand-up guy to some and a stable family man for finally marrying his long-suffering, I mean long-time girlfriend after all these years. I guess she can spend her nights and weekends co-signing his character and dismissing any claims of infidelity.
Sleepingbeauty,
You offer a painfully accurate example of what is meant by They Don’t Change.
Imma beat this drum again if nobody here minds.
From the perspective of the woman who waited 15 years to, um, ‘win this loser’, he ran around behind her back relentlessly with many other women, including the woman in the rival’s camp. When he found out the lid was about to be publicly blown off their affair, he did a quick tidying up job on his personal life. He ended any other extraneous affairs (for now), because that’s more salacious grist to the local news mill, and started acting like he was committed in some way to the 15-year Waiting Wendy.
Why? Because he was forced into it. His marriage is all an act. He hasn’t changed. He’s not a new man. He’s just covering his ass at everyone else’s expense.
There is no ‘hard work’ to be done here. No ‘learning’. No ‘self discovery’. No ‘mistakes to take note of so that he gets it right next time’. I bet he’d crack a rib laughing at the very suggestion.
Why? Because he was more true to himself juggling two, three, or god knows how many women at once in the last few years because that’s the situation he painstakingly constructed for himself. That was the greatest masterpiece of his life, his pride and joy, this tower of women all competing for his time and attention. That’s exactly what he wanted and what he got. In his eyes, nothing will ever amount to that greatness in terms of deep personal expression and achievement. Not his current wife, not his current marriage, not any grinning family children peeping out from behind the white picket fence and Sammy the puppy licking their faces for the benefit of the local newspaper photographer — none of it. Because that’s not the ‘real him’. The ‘real him’ was and is exactly the man you were mixed up with. And even Waiting Wendy will know that it won’t be long and he’ll be back at it with x-number of other women. Why? Say it with me. Because the best indicator of a man’s future behavious is his past behaviour. You got it.
Griselda
Ha ha.
Some of them are indeed as happy as a pig in shite, (although they may have a very convincing facade as sensitive, caring, ethical, feminist blah blah blah) so why would they want to change?
It works for them. They aren’t, really, looking for THE ONE at all.
I am not entirely certain whether this was the case with the person I was involved with (although there are indications that it was)
I don’t intend to carry out any further investigation, analysis or
research in that area. It really doesn’t seem to matter too much any more, what he is and what he does, although when I sometimes read things here that give me a start of recognition. I think it cumulatively helps to prevent romanticising the whole pile of crap. I still have thoughts, like static, in the background, but the volume has really diminished recently.
“Why? Because he was more true to himself juggling two, three, or god knows how many women at once in the last few years because that’s the situation he painstakingly constructed for himself. That was the greatest masterpiece of his life, his pride and joy, this tower of women all competing for his time and attention. That’s exactly what he wanted and what he got. In his eyes, nothing will ever amount to that greatness in terms of deep personal expression and achievement. Not his current wife, not his current marriage, not any grinning family children peeping out from behind the white picket fence and Sammy the puppy licking their faces for the benefit of the local newspaper photographer — none of it. Because that’s not the ‘real him’.”
Grizelda
Pure genius.
“At one point, while were dating, she vandalized his car, blocked him in his driveway and begged/cried for them to get back together. She’s in her late 40s/early 50s.”
I literally died laughing when I read this line. I think your analysis shows you are moving in the right direction, but if you need anymore reason to believe yourself, just remember what this lady has done because of this guy’s behavior. I won’t even consider seeing a guy like that if there was someone in the background vandalizing his property (so that they could get back together; go figure; I am dying laughing about this). Like this is all a serious joke and I’m happy you are on your way to seeing this guy for who he is and the chaos of women’s lives in the background that you will never want to be like again.
I remember with the first guy I was head over heals with I finally just busted everything that he had done to me out into the open. I was a total wreck. My mental health was finished. And like the icing on the cake, he blocked talking to me, said I was “boring and insecure”, walked all over me, shamed me, stereotyped me and never talked to me ever again. Seriously strange to think about, since I’m still trying to get over him and it has been almost two years since the end of the things we had together. I never want to be at that kind of low in my life ever again. I will remember this anecdote and hope that if I find myself in a compromising situation again in future, I will never stoop so low as to vandalize and then plead with him to come back to me. Talk about insanity!
Sleeping, love this..”I guess she can spend her nights and weekends co-signing his character and dismissing any claims of infidelity.” That is exactly what happens when we stay with these ac’s, everyone else thinks they’re must be ‘good’ because we are still there.
I’m not sure if Nat has covered this at some point, but I am wondering if there is a difference between emotional immaturity and emotional unavailability. Do emotionally immature guys eventually grow up and become emotionally unavailable or do they actually demonstrate a real change in their behavior as they mature? There is a big age difference between the ex and I (he’s 20) and while his family is in agreement the way he treated me is wrong, I have also heard the “He’s just immature, he needs to grow up” reasoning. His own mother said I was “too much of a woman” for him. Can a guy seem EU when he’s younger, but then mature and actually give all of himself to a relationship? Or is EU due to deep rooted issues? My ex definitely has some issues (he resents his mom and feels unloved by his family).
Books,
That’s a very interesting set of questions.
On one hand, I found that my EUM would definitely ‘regress’ to a dumbfounded childish state when in a situation that involved other people’s feelings. Lacking any empathy or feelings himself, he’d stiffly put a hand on my shoulder for a moment, with nothing to say. Or he’d regress to an adolescent state by saying things like “So, er, does this mean that you hate me now?” or “Is this the same as that time about a year ago when you showed a flash of anger to me about something I think I must’ve done or said?”. It all added up to “What, you think I did something wrong?”.
Scientists say there’s something physically wrong with the frontal cortex amygdala in men who are clinically unable to feel any sophisticated emotions, so he was really grasping for some kind of conditioned response that could fit the situation. But as soon as yucky talk about feelings was out of the way, he was back to his intellectually strong adult self and was much more comfortable.
The theory is that young children (who haven’t yet developed a fully operational amygdala) and psychotic adults (whose amygdala is permanently non-operational) only mimic the behaviour of higher emotions like ‘empathy’ and ‘love’ so that they get good responses from those around them. They don’t actually feel these things, they just pretend that they do because their parents/partners/friends/associates encourage them and reward them with things they want. The difference between the two groups is that children don’t have any intellect, so they don’t know or care that grownups can see they’re just faking it — while adults do have an intellect, so they can be very clever indeed in the way they cover up their lack of genuine emotion and try to appear normal.
But in the majority of people, by age 14-15, the amygdala ought to be firing away normally and providing them with genuine empathetic feelings like love and respect — and they genuinely behave accordingly.
I’m not sure what it means for your 20 year old ex. That’s still an age for some kind of emotional development — the residue of immaturely still wafts about many 20 year olds. He might be EU on a permanent basis, in which case that’s totally un-mendable now and forever. Or it might be a case of him not knowing how to navigate relationships properly, in which case it might be the right relationship at the wrong time. Or it might be that he does indeed have some emotional growing up to do because he doesn’t have enough life experience and context going on to connect feelings with meanings and know what he wants.
Books, my experience is that EUMs get weirder as time goes by, not healthier. Lately I´ve met a string of EUM/ACs in their 40s who behave as teenagers relationship-wise. Some of them even reverted to living with their mom.
Perhaps your 20 year old needs some growing up to do, but I remember there were commited guys when I was that age. Even if things didn´t end up in marriage, they were able to sustain a loving, respectful relationship. The guys who never had a stable girlfriend still don´t have lasting relationships, 20 years later.
And worse, they don´t want to have one, and by this time know all the tricks to avoid getting emotionally involved while obtaining all the benefits of a loving relationship.
Demeke im glad you did , be proud you walked , it took me a long time if i called him on it he would turn from loveable to cold hearted in a click and id back down . When i was on and on bout other women ie just saying is it true ill walk ? I got this ” if you dont want to talk for a couple of weeks thats okay as long as were friends ” wooried id blab or do somthing , annd when he became fully involved with her he went cold in a instant . Im glad i told him to his face i was out of there , he said you could punch me in face i looked at him like he crap on my shoe said ” im not like that , i said youve treatedevlike s***t these last couple of yrs and he said you can tell me to f**k off so i did . He no longer cared as he had new fall back girl so he could be as shitty to me as he wanted . It still hard to tally it up but thats the learning and healing i have got to go through . Its slowly killing off and good feelings i have for him , i wont hate him as that wont do me any good . Sad i wasted 6 yrs but glader it wasnt longer . Hoping as i got my lesson hell one day get his , i dont want to be a bitter vengeful person i want to be someone a whole heap better
I need someone to talk to you.
This is exactly like what I’m going through. After nearly a year my ex EUM has returned. I was really jealous of his new relationship because he seemed to be treating his new girl like a princess. Well now that he’s back he’s been saying that he regrets hurting me. And he feels like all the things he’s been doing for his new gf he should be doing for me. And he was talking about us getting back together. The thing is though he still hasnt broken up with his gf. Now all the old insecure feelings are coming back. I feel rejected every day that passes that he’s still with her. I’m feeling like I’m betraying myself. And I’m scared I get hurt again. I feel bad talking to him. But when I try to stop all I feel bad too. I’ve started having anxiety attacks again. I don’t know what to do to. Advice?
Anna
He’s not treating her like a princess if he’s sniffing around you. He is being disloyal to her as he was to you. stay away.
and I would add a general comment re these people not wanting a committed relationship with YOU,but instead are able to have a proper relationship with the next person who is The One. It may not be as clear cut as that. Sometimes they do want a relationship with you , and sometimes they don’t, sometimes they want to break up and sometimes they don’t, they want a new girlfriend and yet they don’t, they want to get back together, yet they don’t. Cut yourself loose from their to-ing and fro-ing. And cut yourself loose from your own.
I don’t think there is any such thing as the one. we all thought HE was the one, now we know he’s not. Two relationship ready people need to come together at the right time and commit to making it work, while still having love, which you can’t legislate for. It’s not about sifting through people for the magic person. Not for you and not for him either.
Yes people can change, absolutely, and you’ll know you have when you no longer care, yay, and you know he has when he leaves you the hell alone. Happy days!
Grace:
“Sometimes they do want a relationship with you , and sometimes they don’t, sometimes they want to break up and sometimes they don’t, they want a new girlfriend and yet they don’t, they want to get back together, yet they don’t.”
Absolutely! These are precisely my thoughts about all of this. This is why these people are such mind-effery. It takes a while to get it, but when you do it’s as clear as day. I remember telling my ex EUM within weeks of meeting him that he seemed to be very ‘fickle’. I was spot on. It’s not so much that we wnt them to change – it’s that we want them to stay the effing same for more than two hours at a time! For these people to change, they have to became consistent and juts because he’s got a “new” girlfriend doesn’t make him consistent – the operative word is ‘new’! New girlfriend, same shite.
walk , run away please my ex mm did this do when i first found out about ow , we must have both dissapeared at same time but he chose to use me as i was safer bet having been a quiet good little girl all those yrs and then the ow came back and i just knew , dont enter tain him , i became thin smoked alot , ill anxious , fretting etc etc horrible horrible .You are worthy of a proper relation ship say ” i will not under take a relationship with any one whos still in a relationship or leaving one , show some respect for your present girlfriend and me and stop edgeing your bets both of us deserve better . ” if he walks you know the calibre of the man and do you want a man that can do this youd never trust him and that is a major part of a relationship .
Anna,
Your self-esteem is trying to protect you from him. Listen to your self-esteem.
At risk of sounding like a book saleswoman for Natalie (I promise you she’s not paying me commission!), I have to recommend you read ‘Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl’. It’s a treasure and it will help you right now.
My (free!) advice is: Listen to your self-esteem that’s trying to protect you. Beware of what he’s trying to do in turning you into a fallback girl, a booty call, or add you to his list of midnight text-a-shags. Beware of your responses to him that might lead him to believe you’d be okay with that. Because surely you’re not okay with that, right?
If he misses you emotionally, and if he genuinely believes that dumping you was the worst mistake of his life emotionally, physically, intellectually and mentally, he can start replacing hollow words with solid action. He can start acting like he wants you back, not just saying that he wants you back. He can make a clean break from his gf if that was such a big mistake. He can get his own place and/or disentangle whatever entanglements are there (photos of her stuck to his fridge, clothes left at his/hers, toothbrushes huddling together in the same toothbrush caddy, whatever). He can get some counselling or therapy or whatever it takes for his issues. Your part would be to stand by as observer and watch, nothing more. When he’s accomplished all that and can prove to your satisfaction it’s all for you, then maybe… maybe… you can commence discussions.
But you know what, Anna? We’re talking so much on this thread about ‘the best indicator of a man’s future behaviour is his past behaviour’ — and that stands true for your exEUM. Know that he will generally continue right along the same path with you as he did the first time, and on the same path he has trodden with the current gf. Is that what you want? Are you sure? Please think hard about this.
Natalie, Thanks for this post. I needed to hear all of this. It reaffirms that I’m not crazy and what he did was and is still shady, regardless if he’s turned into the best person to have walked this planet…and I haven’t heard an (real) apology from him. While I realize that I must have been/ am equally messed up to have chosen to be in a relationship with him, I understand that it pre-dates to me being raised a certain way… I could never stand up for myself because my dad had a really bad temper. He’s a jackass and will always be a jackass to me. To ask me if I was seeing someone after a year of NC is kind of a no brainer question.
Thanks for the help!
So now, that you are finally maintaining NC, you can eject him and all things involving him out of your brain. As I’ve told you before, and you don’t or won’t listen. NC is not just an action. It is an complete shift in mentality. That means stop talking about him, his wife, his OW all getting their due. Who cares whether they do or not. Wishing and hoping for revenge is keep you stuck. You continue to be way too emotionally invested in someone who you say and (supposedly) really believe is a CREEP. Talk about YOU, NOT HIM. He is not a part of your life anymore, so stop rehashing the same crap about him over and over again. Have you read Natalie’s book? Mr. U & the FBG? The Dreamer Fantasy ebook? Have you signed up for her esteem class? What are you doing other than lieing in bed, licking your wounds? Tell, us about the progress you are making within YOU. He’s OUT. LET IT GO!
Tired, I know I sound like the most insensitive B—- on BR. But, this perpetual wallowing in self-pity because he’s an AC, know what it does for you? ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!
i signed my self up for a english olevel being going a month , seeing a councillor , attending evening class and raisng my kids . so im far from laying in bed wallowing in self pity . ive had this happen a couple of weeks ago and been nc one week so yep im processing 6 yrs into a matter of weeks and feeling all sorts of crap.if its the wrong way so be it but ill get there at my own pace .
Tired, whatever you do, don´t give in to the self-pity! That is the most self-destructive thing to do. It also makes you feel weak when you need all your energy to get out of this hole.
Instead, try to get angry! It won´t be pleasant but you´ll get over him much faster and on your own two feet.
So, whenever you start to feel like a victim, think: “he´s an asshole” “he needs a punch in the nose” “he´s a complete loser, and smelly too” – whatever works for you.
Tired
Good for you. You are trying to help yourself and in time this will pay off. Do some nice things for yourself as well as dutiful things – hot baths, nice meals, that kind of thing. You will get over it, but it will take time.
thankyou, im at the angry stage but i am getting better. im also getting more organized as well as i start to re focuses . yes im not a victim and no i dont think kindly about the douche bag at all now .
Having read this article and all the comments to date. (there are some painful stories and I wish for you all love, light and happiness)
What has occured to me is how much I have changed with regards to my wants, needs, expectations, belief system, worth and values as a result of these relationships/entanglements/experiences.
In the past I would stay on the same street as crazy, invite them in and tend the wounds. My then lack of self understanding always resulted in me being shocked when that person turned out (again) to be a snarling, spitting, greedy and selfish flea ridden stray. My feelings of abandonment, lack of love and need to be needed meant that I let them stay in my life,tolerated some awful times and would bend, change, put my had back in the fire in an attempt to fix the uncontrollable. It slowly occured to me over the last 6 years that I continued to be at the front and centre of these experiences. It was at that point that I willingly accepted the need to look back at my past and discarded what was not mine and heal what was. During this time I recieved many tests; it was of course easier to believe that all the hurt stemmed from that relationship. In truth the hurt was much deeper, older and longer than any intimate relationship I have been in. I have choosen not to invite back anything/one into my life that I now consider unhealthy. I have also decided not to seek closure.
Maya Angelou was on to something when she said that “When people show you who they are believe them the first time” so now when I see crazy across the street, I run or walk in the opposite direction.
Good for you Sophia! You prove people can change, you also prove how hard it is and that the person must really want it and it is still hard work. The people who drove us to change, however, IMHO have it pretty good..they are the users, not the victims, so I see very little impetus on their part; to change. The point to take away, don’t wait for them to change, don’t expect them to change.
Uff… I have reached the 2 months and a half NC milestone. I feel proud of that, but instead of getting easier, i find its getting back to being harder. I have these feelings of gealousy towards the new girl EUM has and I cant seem to shake it off. I understand this post with my brain but my heart just won t let go. Im stuck and I know its stupid to be stuck.
I fear I wasnt loveable, he rejected me so many times in obvious ways and less than obvious ways. While with the ne new girl he is affectionate, or so my friends tell me. I really hope its a show,I really hope he s just blowing hot, because if its real,its impossible for me to not be rejected and hurt all over again. Please God, please let it be fake and rotten, like he was with me, or else how could I live with the thought that I couldnt bring the affectionate side of him out. I didnt deserve that, she did?
I am perfectly aware of how ridiculous my thouths sound like, but still…I cant help it.
I think it has to do with the fact that somewhere, deep inside I still think he was a catch, he was a prince, it was just me who messed up from day one. Otherwise, he would have made space for me, like he has for this girl who is now treated like a queen probably.
How do I get out of this state? I cry everyday, I obsess, cant seem to find anyone I like at all (!!?) and I rehash and replay events and conversations in my head.
Does it ever go away? I mean..Wasnt NC supposed to be the secret of happines?? How long does it take, does anyone know, until I get that happy breezy moving on feeling? Cause Ive gotten so tired of waiting for it….
Help!
deedeeinamsterdam,
“like he has for this girl who is now treated like a queen probably.”
PROBABLY.
You don’t know this. Did he treat you like a queen in the beginning? I reckon he did or did a little at the least, otherwise you wouldn’t have got attached to him, right?
Then why would this new fling end any different? Maybe it’ll take longer, maybe shorter, but really, deep down you know = “please let it be fake and rotten, like he was with me”= no person is fake with somebody and real with another. Just doesn’t happen!
You fear you weren’t lovable enough?
If you weren’t, you would know this of yourself. Don’t base your own conclusions about yourself on thin air and assumptions either. I know and understand you feel rejected again, if it’s serious with the other girl or not, but really, it’s not about you. They just can’t cope with not getting their ego in check as soon as possible, it’s not about you nor is it about the new girl. It’s about him.
And most importantly, do NOT let your friends talk about him, tell them explicitly not to. Do NOT check this man out. Do NOT do this to yourself, you have absolutely NO need to know.
It sets you back, every little thing you hear or know. Close it off. Make it as impossible as you can get it.
Do not let this man hurt you any more, even through second hand information.
It will get better this way much sooner that you think. It’s hard, really hard, but it gets better at an even pace.
Thank you Sofie. Its true, he was treating me nice in the beginning. Or maybe I was so starved for affection, I too anything as being fantastically romantic. Low self esteem…low expectations.
Yes he always had his ego in check, hooked up with the girl almost the day I went NC on him. and after 2 days I told him just how much I want him back and like him, in the sweetest, most honest way.
I ll stick to your advice. No more checking for info, I squeezed it out of my friends and it burnt. BAD
Hi deedee
It does take time and it does take proper NC without reports and updates on his activities from “friends”. I know how tempting it is to find out but it retraumatises you every time and prevents you focussing on yourself. I went on googling the person and looking at pictures. I’ve stopped. Its the little things, the devil is in the detail, of how you spend your time, that cumulatively will make the difference. Find new sociable activities that have no association or connection with him. There is no one answer. I dreamed of him again last night but I still woke feeling okay and I feel happy today because the sun is shining and I’m off work for the kids school holidays, we have nice plans for the rest of the day. This time last year I was constantly obsessing, I mean I could think of nothing else. I can’t say I am completely over it and I am sure that if I had any contact or information it would set me right back. Like you, in spite of everything, I still kind of have him on a pedestal. It doesn’t matter really, as long as you’re focussing more and more on your own stuff and liking yourself.
Put you on a pedestal. Be someone you can look up to!
Oh Mymble, it feels so good not to be alone in this. What is this?? Healing? Hurting some more? Psichosis? Im scared because I ve always been a cool, in control girl, always with a plan and a reasonable atittude. Even in front of failure. But this I CANNOT believe. I cant believe how my life has been turned upside down because of this experience. I think I am now healing for all the wounds from the past, because I NEVER cried so much, I dont understand where tears come from all the time its ridiculous
I am trying to pamper myself, to be kind to me and as many other as possible, I have cleaned my life of negative friends and im doing my best at the job that I neglected. I really feel im doing better, but the crying is like a freakin fountain!! I have made a few new friends and oddly I have connected a bit with my mother..
So maybe there is hope for me too.
I wish you a wonderful Holiday with the kids. If you got out of it, you rock!!
deedeeinamsterdam
Does it ever go away Yes eventually. The feeling breezy and moving forward tends to not happen all in one go. In the meantime what you feel is real and not ridiculous. I have no doubt that others me included have felt the way you are feeling now, it is an honet reaction to a painful experience. You will let go when it is time to let go and then you will make space for you.
Remember to treat yourself like the queen you are. Stick with the NC and if you can ask friends to stop sharing updates about his new relationship with you.
Thank you Sophia. I read your success story. Very very cool. I think this silly non-relationship scratched something much bigger, otherwise I cant explain where all this hurt comes from, the man didnt do so much damage, compared to the stories I read here. But to me it felt like I got hit by a bus
)
I felt very well before the amigos gave me an update so clearly, that is not something that I need.
What I did need were your kind words, and you gave me just that!
NC no matter what!
@DeeDee
I takes a long time, I have conversations with my dude in my head daily. But one thing that I have learned from BR is that this is not love but some sort of obsession or compulsion or both.
So this is what I tell myself, that this isn’t a great love that I somehow messed up, this is a great love that I somehow made up; something that never really was. Given that perspective it makes it easier to turn my thoughts away from him and on to living my life.
I have also given him a signature tune that I think of when I think of him which helps. You Jerk by Kim Stockwood.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sVWOrhxpZk
I just hum along with the chorus. It makes me smile every time.
“You jerk
You jerk
You are such a jerk
There are other words
But they just don’t work”
Soozie,
That’s hilarious!
Love the backing vocal guys too! It’s so good I’d like to send it to my own personal jerk (but I won’t).
Muahahaha Soozie the song is perfect. And I also laughed when you mentioned the conversations! Thank God I am not alone and hopefully not going crazy. I did make it all up its true, that much I know, he even told me in other words.
)
That was his excuse and defence. he was always “honest” with me…but still dragged me along while telling me he doesnt want a relationship. Cruel but honest. Said he enjoyed my company. Im pretty sure he did because I am a great company! I cant imagine how that girl, whom I know, can be cuter and funnyier and sexier than me. cause she cannot. thats what puzzles me. He went serious with the lesser option. Hope she drags him down to the dephth of her boring, boring world and eats him alive.
Cruel me no?
DeeDee,
You mentioned that you don’t fancy anyone else you currently know —
But have you really thought about stepping forward to find a romantic replacement? It’s been a couple of months for you, and it may be a couple more months before you find someone else. But it would be nice, wouldn’t it? It’s a bit like getting a new job — a new job does everything to boost you up and make you forget all about the troubles and agony of your previous job. Give it a chance?
Ejane.
The ex you have referred to has been through a series of very traumatic experiences. If all you’ve said is factual and has hit him in rapid succesion, it is understandable that he begin pulling away. You said you understood his situation, and I don’t know how long you’ve been involved before all of his crises began. But, it sounds to me that this has been very bad timing to pursue a relationship and to expect much participation from him. My guess is that his hanging out at the gym and with friends is his way of trying to cope with his losses, accompanying grief, fear of untimely intimacy with you, and attempting to avoid pressure and additional stress. However, when you describe him as seemingly having had interest in another woman, while he was still in a committed (?) relationship with you, you make a valid point that he’s not worthy of you at this time, and maybe never be. I think it is difficult to judge what a person’s intentions are currently and future at a time such as this. I lost my Mom 5 months ago. It threw me into a tailspin and I didn’t know which end was up. Same when my husband passed away six years ago. At times like that romance and emotional intimacy/committment are not a priority. IMHO, I would not concern myself too much about this other woman. I don’t think she’ll get much more out of him than you have because, frankly, I don’t think this man has a clue right now what he really wants. Consequently, you need to just give him his space and time, while you move on and live your life productively. You’ve tried to be there for him, but sometimes that just is not enough.
Hi Tinkerbell
Thanks for the response. All of these things happened to him while we were dating. Honestly, his grandmother passing away didn’t seem to bother him at all…not nearly as much as losing his friend. I didn’t find out until after he died that his friend lives in my neighborhood. I never met him, and my ex told me they had not hung out much in the last several years, but they were roommates after college.
I know when we were dating, I was very sensitive to everything he was going through. I’ve never experienced some of these things with anyone else, and it’s hard to know what to do/say and when/how to say anything. I asked him during the relationship if he needed some space or time away from ‘us’ and he repeatedly said no. In fact, just 3 months ago he told me he didn’t want to move away for a job, because he didn’t want to leave me or his family.
Aside from his stress, I tried to assess my own happiness with the relationship by separating the things that happened to him vs. the actual person. He always showed up on time to meet his workout buddies at the gym, but he was perfectly ok showing up at my door 20-30 minutes late for a date. He often texted his friends while we were eating dinner. He was quick to help someone with broken household items, but he never really helped me around the house. He had strange relationships with other women, including some that he had dated briefly. He hardly ever made weekend plans with me – we hung out every weekend, but it wasn’t like we spent the entire time getting to know each other. There were plenty of occasions when his words didn’t equal his actions. Being in a stressful situation doesn’t mean he should get a free pass for being neglectful.
In regards to this other girl, we both really liked her, but I did notice during the trip, my ex was flirting with her a little. He was surprised his friend did’t want a relationship with her, and he made the comment “If I was single, I would ask her out.” –not something you say in front of your GF. I let him know I didn’t appreciate his behavior toward her, and he apologized. I talked to her on the phone several times after the trip, and she was very upset the relationship with his friend didn’t work out. She had friended both of us on FB, and he let it slip one night that he chatted with her, and they ended up talking on the phone about his friend. Even though it upset me, I didn’t really say anything about it – but after that, he never mentioned her again.
When we were breaking up, my ex brought up a few things he had never said to me before. He told me I was hard to read and he felt like I held my feelings back. I’m sure this was from the months of not knowing how to address issues with him. But why wait a year to tell me that? Why not ask or try to fix the problem when you notice it’s an issue? For the most part, I felt like he was really trying to say “I can’t be there physically/emotionally/financially right now.” Not just for me, but for anyone. I’ve had times in my life when I knew I wasn’t ready for a relationship, so I didn’t date or made my intentions clear if I was dating. I just can’t understand why he would try to start a new relationship, when he really needs to be focusing on himself.
Hi Grizelda,
I beg to differ that people never change. I’ve seen people make profound changes & sustain them over many decades. I am also one of those peple. It can indeed be done. It takes genuine committment & a lot of work however. I would agree though that the typical EU / AC is unlikely to possess any such such motivation to change.
I’m at the cynical end of the spectrum, I know!
But I believe people genuinely EU are that way because they just are that way. No amount of hard work, no amount of learning, no amount of effort is ever going to alter the fact he’s (a) uninterested; (b) a player; (c) damaged; (d) married and cheating; (e) attached and cheating; (f) misogynist; (g) cognitively immature; (h) psychopathic. These are the people who are EU forever, and still women tear themselves into shreds thinking they can cause them to change somehow.
This is different from unrequited love — those who only appear to be EU but really just didn’t reciprocate the same amount of love their partner felt for them. I don’t think that makes them unavailable per se — they’re available alright, just not feeling it as much as the gf/bf would like. If that’s the case, yes I agree their behaviour and attitude is fixable with effort so that they don’t do any harm and they learn how to treat people with greater respect… if, as you say, they’re motivated to do so. But that’s solely their behaviour and attitude to work on, and how to navigate relationships correctly. Stringing along someone they don’t love for years, not extricating themselves properly from incompatible matches, belitting or causing grief deliberately as a show of strength, not knowing how to curtail bad behaviour, or setting up lovesick exes as easy booty call — all this kind of stuff and more is improveable if they’re motivated to be decent people rather than assclowns. As you say, though, highly unlikely.
I dunno, Griz – I think that your first (unchanging) list reads much like your (changing) second list – what’s the difference between someone who can cheat on their partner and someone who strings someone along for years? Aren’t they both doing moreorless the same thing?
IMO, you either believe that people – ALL people – are worthy of care and respect – or you believe that people are only worthy of care and respect if it will directly benefit YOU and/or you can’t get away with not showing it. That’s the difference between the two states as far as I can see.
Here’s my take on it: ANYONE can change if they choose to do it, but they’re not going to choose to do it without a significant incentive. And, when you think about what it takes to turn somebody from a person who doesn’t see the value in treating people (in general) well to someone who does, that’s going to have to be a SIGNIFICANT incentive.
(In the EUM’s case, this turned out to be a suicide attempt + becoming a father + the introduction of nice shiny new start… that’s a lot of upheaval for one person).
I agree that there are probably some people who are too badly damaged/mentally ill to ever change or realise the error of their ways. But I think there are far more who could but won’t, on account of it’s dead easy to up sticks, mess people about and run away when the going gets tough. Instead they can go through life cherry-picking all the nice easy parts of relationships and avoiding the challenging parts. Who wouldn’t? They probably don’t even know what they’re missing out on.
The point is, I think, that if someone is treating YOU badly, then they aren’t going to change for YOU. No matter what you do, because it isn’t about you, it’s about them. Also because they’ll know that they can get away with it and also because, in allowing them to treat you badly, you devalue yourself in their eyes.
Little though I liked it, I do not blame Son’s Dad in the slightest for wanting to practice his nice new ideas and behaviours on someone who would be impressed by them, rather than hardbitten and cynical (by then) old me. I was never going to trust him an inch and he knew it.
Loving men like this so much that you’ll put up with their rubbishy behaviour is a trap. They might like the trap very much, but it serves as a disincentive to move on and become available or healthy. And in the meantime it eats you up until there’s nothing left.
I think there’s a difference between EU and lack of values. I think these should be separate, and all lumped in together.
All the ladies on this site were/are EU, does that mean they can’t change? I was EU, and have now changed. It can happen.
I meant: not all lumped together.
I also, do not want to forget our male audience.
deedeeinamsterdamn,
I feel your pain. When it comes to getting over a traumatic experience, it’s us who will blow hot and cold. I am the same way. Some days, I feel fine and light and I don’t think about it and other days…not so much. Just be confident that each day that passes it is getting better. Think of other obstacles you have overcome in your life where you thought “this is the worse thing that could ever happen to me,” then you got over it until the next worse thing happened. Healing will happen, but it will sneak up on you. One day you will hear his name and there will be no emotion attached to it.
May that day come, and soon, Sleeping Beauty. I need it. Ive been heartbroken before and now cant even imagine why I was so devastated about the guy, he wasnt that special. But this one, is something else, he may not be special, but this process Im going through sure is, Im trying to wrap my mind about what exactly triggered such a violent reaction in heart. The ego bruised and dented, the rejection? the other girl, the abandonment? me humiliating myself,fear of being alone forever? plain old loneliness and boredom? what was it that is causing me so much pain? cause it cant possibly be only this poor guy. This depression is way bigger and im fighting it with my hands tied cause i dunno what it is. There we go again, fountain of tears
) But worry not, I have taken the habit of carrying tissues with me at all time!
Unlike Scarlet O Hara, who never had one when she was crying left and right
Thank you!!!
Question for all: Have any of you gone back to seeing the AC for a shag only or to redefine the relationship on YOUR terms? And did it work? Such as, an arrangement such as friends only for company or shag only? Say that you now realize that you don’t even have time for a normal relationship but the physical stuff was great and once in awhile for that doesn’t sound bad at all because there isn’t any non assclowns hanging around as of late. I know some have gone back to AC with the same expectations and of course have been sadly disppointed that nothing has changed. Well, what if YOU have changed what YOU want?
JR
I went back numerous times. Managing down your own expectations is demeaning and whatever you think you can deal with, will be able to put up with, they will give you less and worse. They will always disappoint, whatever capacity they are in. Demoting yourself to Booty call will eat away at your self esteem.
There’s a lot of posts here about that that say it all much better than I could.
oops I responded but didn’t ‘reply’.
JR
That´s a trap you´re setting for yourself, don´t do it! You´re trying to convince yourself you want something different than you used to, just to keep dancing the sick dance. But it´s just an excuse and you´re not doing things on YOUR terms, you are just giving him permission to treat you like a complete doormat or worse.
I hope so, Tired. Yes, we all have to progress at our own pace, but we have to make a sincere start, and that is by ridding ourselves of fantasy, controlling out-of-control thoughts like worrying if his wife and OW got their “fix” (whatever that may be) for the day. Good luck.
Thankyou tinkerbell , it was just a phase , im feeling more positive now and calmer and stronger as each day passes . And when i relaspe i dont get wishy washy , i say i want somthing better and it passes .:)
There are so many golden nuggets in this thread for me.
I never saw the OW as being the original driver of the emotionally intimate affair…it was all him and as he admitted to me later, it could have and would have been anybody he met who seemed to “connect” with him post break-up (now that he had taken off his wedding ring etc.)
That IS so sad for the OW – golly he should have had a P for Penis pinned on his chest as somebody once said on another post. But he denied it was sexual (go figure). However the OW also ignored a lot of red flags and then ended up moving much much faster than he did with her professions at the end and her unwillingness to let the relationship go (I don’t understand why you are ending it and it isn’t necessary etc) Ultimately though he drove it and he encouraged it…even in his “good-bye letter” which was written without HIM taking responsibility for the events. I think he sort of thought he could just get what he wanted by “being honest” – you know, “I don’t want anything serious but if we do sleep together that would be wonderful.”
In the case of this particular man emotional immaturity and unavailability were wrapped up together. Although a grown man, he didn’t seem to have a clue about his emotional life or mine. It was confusing to me because he was decent and civil, we had many great experiences together, plus he was a great and involved father and the children, now adults, love him. He has many good surface qualities but his emotional detachment and lack of boundaries made him unreliable and untrustworthy and sometimes cruel(to me). He said he didn’t understand and I experienced it as cruel.
I just couldn’t stand up for my emotional rights and self because it wasn’t always clear to me what was happening…It was clear in my body and my heart but my head kept talking me out of it.
He is now in therapy – for the FIRST time for himself, although he has been in therapy many times before and says he needs and wants to change, talking about his new insights, saying he understands what an idiot he was. He also is claiming he really understands, appreciates and loves me in a way he didn’t before. It all feels weird and uncomfortable to me…unreal (after 4 therapy sessions?) and I am not being drawn into it or into “relationship building” again. (my turn for emotional detachment
My interests are different – figuring out how I am going forward and deciding if and how I want him in a relationship. I think my living the most productive, interesting and fulfulling life I can while being true to my own values is all I can do right now. I haven’t figured out all that this will look like.
I am not closed off in communication with him but I know longer “work” at the relationship or “ask” anything from him. It feels much much better. How or if he puts his new insights into action….well, time will tell and that will determine the distance I need to to finally put between us. I hope we can have a more authentic and caring relationship because I sure have spent time on it, it would help in all sorts of ways and be easier on the kids. But it may not happen and in the meantime I want/need to protect myself. I think I am doing this the hardest way and it may not be the best way…still working on that.
I’ve never posted before, but this post hits so close to home right now. I am 15 months post breakup and I’m still struggling. My EX is now on his 4th g/f – yet this one seems different, he is much more serious with her than the other ones and I can’t help but obsess over the idea that he is a new improved, changed man for her? Like she is so fantastic he will never cheat on her like he did to me. I’m not sure if my EX was emotionally unavailable but he most definately was an AC, he cheated on me 3x over the course of our 7 year relationship and never wanted to discuss marriage.
I don’t want him back. I don’t miss him or love him. Our relationship was so toxic and I glad to be out of it! It just hurts that he has moved on and appears to have all this new found happiness and I don’t. I’m still here sorting through the aftermath and he’s having the time of his life!
Confused,
How do you know he is on his 4th GF?
I am aware of 3 other women he “casually” dated over the last year, the most recent one seems much more serious than the other ones. How do I know….heard via friend of friend, ran into them at a bar and more pathetically, I’ve actually been cyber stalking him, her and mutual friends to obtain information.
I know I need to stop, but I can’t – it’s a horrible obsession.
Grizelda,
I agree 100%. Guess we’re both cynics. So what!
Grizelda, you are the woman of my dreams…lol. You are 100% right about him being proud and true to himself while juggling two or three women at a time. Funny enough while we were dating I discovered his last re-election speech (it was on youtube) and he thanked the long-suffering girlfriend of 15 years, the woman in the rivals camp as she was chair of a committee he oversaw and another young lady who was a volunteer during his campaign – ALL OF WHOM HE WAS SLEEPING WITH AT THE TIME. Of course then, we hadn’t been together long enough for me to know that he had been dating the volunteer and the chic who worked under his rival, but as we talked I realized that he had in fact dated both women and at the same damn time. He confessed that the volunteer was just a jump off (and claims he told her as much) as she was only 27 at the time and he, then 50, didn’t want to be in a serious relationship with a 20-something, but he was also dating the chic in the rival’s camp who knew about the volunteer. I’m pretty sure at the time she thought she had replaced the 15 year gf and was now the main chic, but he was clearly seeing/sleeping with all three at the time. I thought back to it said wow that was bold. Guess he was proud of himself. He REALLY thinks he’s a pimp.
The frontal cortex amygdala issue is definitely the case. I know my toddler gives me hugs and kisses because that’s what’s been taught and not because he is saying “I think I should give my mommy a kiss and a hug because I love her”, I never thought of adults mimicing normal behavior though. But it’s plausible. We all do it on some level. Who goes to a job interview and says, honestly, I have a hard time getting up on Mondays? We all know how to act when we want something.
Any time I discussed a problem with him or was unhappy I was accused of being negative. Anytime I wasn’t hugging, kissing on him or making light small talk it would give me this blank stare like “this is getting too heavy, I can’t.” Even when I tried talking him about my frustrations with job/career he offered me two sentences and when I wasn’t satisfied and still stressing over it, he just looked at me and shook his head. He just didn’t understand and was offended that I questioned is claims of his feelings for me being “visceral” as he ALWAYS described them because he did act that way. He professed that he would stop telling me and start showing me. I was still waiting for that train to arrive up unitl the very end.
During our last communications, when I let him knew that I didn’t want him in my life in any way, he claimed that he was oh so hurt that I was being dismissive of him and the time we spent together and would hate to lose what we shared forever. Really? You get engaged before we call it quits, don’t have the decency to break it off first, instead you act like an AC so I’m forced to do it for you, parade me around in front of your colleagues like some trophy (now I see that’s what it was), claim my child as your own all the while knowing you are about to marry another woman and yet I’m dismissive and YOU’RE hurt? Who in the hell left the gate open? Talk about delusional.
ACaddict,
You are not the only one who cracks up at that story. I’ve only told a few close friends/family of everything that happened, including the vandalism. When I tell them that she did that “they’re like, huh no.” When I tell them that she did that AND she’s 50…they die!
No-one can believe that a 50 y/o would act that way, not even 20-something year olds. It’s not that serious….EVER. How do you not want to slap your own self after making a complete and utter fool out of yourself? I guess she’s now thinking “hey, it worked, we finally got married after a hundred years.” At the time I didn’t think about it, but I guess her self-esteem was more shot than mine. Which is why I told him that she was pathetic for doing it, he had ego-issues for entertaining her when she did and if getting his ego stroked and having a woman beg him to be with her was what he needed, then I’m happy he found that and they both needed to grow up and stop playing their high school games of break-up-to-make-up.
I use to hedge my bets on how long it would last, but while I’m still healing I don’t have a vested interest in the success/failure of their relationship. I really just never want to hear about him/see him/speak to him ever again. The sooner he is out of my head and heart, the better. What hurt most was that I thought we were friends. I talked to him at length about the pain I experienced with my child’s father as I was abandoned during my pregnancy, and this was my first child, while he went back to the mother of his first child and actually moved to another state (10 hours away) so that it wouldn’t be hard on HER having to deal with me having his baby. He seemed like he cared and was so empathetic, or so I thought.
It still hurts that this pseudo-Obama is married and so soon, as it would if he were with anyone,married or not, but I can’t get over the emotional betrayal. It was just mean and cruel and unnecessary. That, I cannot forgive.
Confused,
Someone once said, “if you keep re-reading the last chapter of your life, you’ll never move on to the next one.” You have simply got to let go of this loser. He’s a cheat. He has had four girlfriends in one year! (And yeah, how do you know that?) You have all the information you need on this hopeless, toxic, messed up dud. Do whatever it takes to build your self-esteem and love yourself, because the problem here right now is YOU. You know he’s bad news. The question is, why do you still care? You’ve got to stop living his life and get your own. It can be wonderful once you do. The choice is yours.
Kerry,
I think that is the most sound and truthful advice I have received in a very long time. Honestly I think I have been able to recognize and take responsibility for my part in the breaking down of the relationship. My EX never really took full responsibility for his cheating, there isn’t much closer there…SO, I think I have taken on a good portion of the responsibility which makes me (at times) question whether or not he is really a horrible man. Yes, he did cheat on me but these are the tricks my mind plays.
I know I am my own worst enemy right now. I just find it so hard to stop “looking and searching” for information about his current situation. It changes nothing, I know this…but sometimes the impulse is too strong.
Right on Allison! Instead of wanting to assume information that hurts us and we really haven’t got a clue, we should use our energy to focus on knowing what will make us strong enough to not even care.
When I think about change and whether it is possible, I think about my father who is now nearly 70 and miserable lonely and I’ll. He started off life with all the natural gifts a person could want. And he has thrown all of it away, treated every one like crap, his (several) wives, (who I guess all thought they would be the exception) his children. He has never bought a birthday card, never paid maintenance, never stayed sober.
Now he is miserable but he still isn’t changed.
You have to believe that change is possible for everyone, life would be too bleak otherwise, but I honestly do not see much evidence of people changing even when it would clearly be to their own enormous benefit.
JR,
Don’t fall in the trap of becoming or continuing to be unavailable yourself. It’s not a nice or fruitfull position to be in.
“When you’re beating yourself up for not changing someone who treated you in a less-than manner and envying the person who has ‘settled down’ with them, you’re guilty of wanting validation, to be chosen, to be given a title without really giving due consideration to where this all really fits into the bigger picture”
How do we stop needing this validation. My ex got his new g/f pregnant – he told me this via text whilst admitting she was a ‘psycho’, it was a ‘loveless’ relationship and he was only got in a defined relationship with her because of the child. He said he was gutted he hadn’t tried harder with me. I was distraught about the pregnancy but it made me feel better that he seemed to be missing me and didn’t love her (terrible I know).The girl has since lost the baby which I wouldn’t wish on anyone but he is still with her and now I feel so stupid for thinking that he valued me in any way. I cannot stop contacting him and I am going mad!
Marie
The only way to stop, is to stop.
Try taking it one day at a time. If it helps, write down what you would be saying to him if you contacted him, put the paper in a drawer to look at tomorrow, then do something else preferably out of the house and with other people. Look at the paper tomorrow. You won’t like it. It will look silly to you.
Also when you think about contacting, imagine what he will say back to you and how you will feel. If he says “I miss you!” you will feel hollow because you know he doesn’t mean it. There’s nothing to keep you apart, except his not wanting to be with you.
It’s that that keeps me from contacting- I know now what I’ll get back – some variety of nothing. Either actually nothing, or some BS nice to hear from you/ how are you/lets set up a booty call shag.
Oh Marie,
Why are you talking to him????
He obviously lied about his relationship with this woman – disgusting he called her a psycho – as he is still with her. He was trying to bring you along as a something, something for himself. He’s disgusting!
I don’t understand what you get from this??
OMG…Just woke up & the first site I looked on was your site. Just am starting to accept that I am the one who continues this cycle. He disappears, he comes back, I feel like it will go different, I start behaving insecure because, well, I want more. He lies to appease me but I know its a lie. I investigate and find out things that hurt me. As you can tell, I AM THE ONE WHO CONTINUES THE MADNESS! How do I let go? I am newly sober (17 months) and have just started to begin putting my life together again. I go to therapy once a week, 12 step meetings at least 2-3 times per week and yet, I still accept this b.s. hoping one day I will begin to feel better about me so I can implement the no contact rule.
miss tea-
good for you for getting sober. so maybe this advice will feel familiar.
you cannot wait until you feel better about you to go NC. you must gather your strength, straighten your spine, tell yourself you can and you WILL do it no matter what, and go NC.
why? because NC is so you can make things quiet and remove drama so you focus on you. which means you have to sit with you – no distractions, just you and you. the drama is just another distraction that keeps you from dealing with yourself, its another form of addiction.
but YOU CAN DO IT.
i won’t lie, its hard at first. and then it gets harder. but then it gets easier and you will learn to take proper care of yourself. you must embrace yourself, “faults” and all until you see how precious you are and how you must attend to your own wants and needs.
you won’t feel better unless you do this. and staying with him will only drain you. there is no up with him, only a roller coaster going down. so give yourself a little time to prepare. and then. just. do. it.
Ejane.Don’t know if you will see this but you are so right when you say that just because he is in a stressful situation doesn’t mean he should get a free pass to be neglectful and disrespectful. Remember some of the classic signs of EUM are, ambiguous, opportunistic, immature,refusing to handle his problems,
irresponsible, leading you on for his own selfish purposes. But, I think you know how to handle this creep. Flush. He’s not the only person who has problems and if he can’t deal with them while treating you well, and with consideration he doesn’t deserve your patience and devotion.
LOL Natalie: “You don’t have copyright over their assholery.” So…..that means I gotta get permission from him if I’m going to ‘use’ any of his ‘original’ assholery in my ‘work’?
Better late than never, I’m back from my trip and really want to weigh in on this issue. ‘Cause it’s a doosey of an issue. I was on a road trip this past week with a friend of mine. We were driving through beautiful mountains and national parks, etc. With all of that scenic driving, there is also LOTS of time to think. Too much time sometimes. At one point, I actually found myself staring out at the cows placidly grazing on the hillsides, and thinking, “What the F*CK is WRONG with me that I’m thinking of him right now?!!” This after 6 months of NC.
Nat, you said: “Why, even in the face of being treated in a certain way by somebody and even knowing that they have fundamental issues that are a barrier to a relationship, are you still there trying to go back and obsessing about them, when you could be addressing why you were with them in the first place and mending that?”
Why? I wonder sometimes. I think, for me, it’s the fear that this is all I have to look forward to in my love life, this settling for crumbs. I don’t want to go back to him, but hey….I consider myself a realist and also a person who starkly looks at things in a “cause-equals-effect” rationale….So I think, “Ok, if the only guys showing interest in me are/have been ACs, then I guess that’s all I can hope to ever attract.” Or: “I guess there’s something about me that makes healthy men run for the hills.” And these thoughts terrify and distract me until I’m on a one-way trip to Asshole Town. Because, I guess, I don’t see any “GoodGuyvilles” on the way there.
And my little cousin just got engaged this last week. So yeah, I feel like I’ll be alone forever, clutching my ringless hands in a frozen death grip. Cheery, huh? Sorry guys. Maybe I’m still tired from being on the road for so long. Both the literal and figurative road.
Welcome back Revolution. And hugs to you. Keep up the good work and you will get there. I’m in awe of you and the others on this site who have kept NC.
Thanks, JR. Your warmth and encouragement to keep going just made my day.
Tired. I’m just worried about you. That’s all. You seem so sweet and gentle. I agree with the poster who said, you need to get ANGRY. 6 years is a long time and it takes a very long time to get over the mess he put you through. Just stay on your horse and don’t fall off. Focus on your kids. They need your attention far more than MR. MM/AC/EUM. Congrats on your english course and whatever else you are doing for yourself.
Thanks tinks , but thankyou for being tough with me too. im first to admit now im a child somtimes in my thinking .It took me a long time to see .I also played my part in the deception so what did i expect , he was showing me by his actions for years.This new ow and all of it has done me a favour its set me free . i did the right thing for once i binned someone .Grew a tiny spine and binned him and do you no what since i did the right thing , good things have happened since binning him 4 or 5 weeks ago , i started course , guitar,councelling and i won nearly 100 quid , all nice positive things. plus i felt a tiny bit sad but then i danced to tiger feet round my kitchen whilst laughing so im on my way x
and yes thats my prob to sweet and gentle for arseholes . not anymore !
I needed to hear this today! I have been ‘stuck’ on my nasty ex for a while now and I am so guilty of romanticising him and his new girl…when really and truly it’s all bollocks!!! He managed to cleverly confirm my insecurities when we were together (what all abusers slyly do, chip away at your self worth)…and now I’m ‘stuck’?! Ugh! I feel a boxing session (with his face on the target!
is in order! xx
These comments are heart wrenching for me personally, but I appreciate all of them. Natalie, your insights are a gift. You make them appear much simpler than they really are when we must apply them to our own lives. I wish I could write with as much clarity. Thanks for passing on the gift to the rest of us.
I wrote a post about how long it takes to heal.
God Bless, All
http://theabilitytolove.wordpress.com/2012/10/20/recovery-is-not-about-instant-gratification/
I’m a pretty cool 46 had amazing parents who didn’t see gender wanted their children to live their dream…lower middle class but ethnics,,,and knew the value of education…art..music…politics..been struggling so long…with American society…I think it destroys girls…no matter how you were brought up…your never good enough..never booby enough never..blond enough…never skinny enough..and always how to improve yourself…it really has taken me 46 years to say f that….I would rather…photograph ..play my violin.. read ….watch a great movie…be with my self..men don’t define us…society doesn’t define us…we need to stop settling cause if you want to be defined by a man then your not a woman….
and … thanks Natalie…a graduate of your school of unbelievable relationship of hard knocks…when I found you I was a mess..you slowly…patiently..lovingly…sympathetically… lots of empathy….made me realize that yes i was to blame..change my mind set…love me and live and learn…Thanks Natalie… I will always revisit cause I learn and always be grateful …cheers
I met my now ex boyfriend just over 3yrs ago, his wife had divorced him a year earlier, after our meeting he accused his exwife of all sorts of drama…
He quickly pursued me, didnt want to spend a day without seeing me…
He would do everything for me, I couldnt believe how his wife could have left such a good man, I started to truly think that the problem was surely with his ex wife, well 6 months down the line I started to see the real person i was dealing with, he started blaming me for every little thing that happened in the relationship, at that time we were living together, I found out he was secretive about everything, I discovered that he was a mummys boy, everytime we had an argument he would run to his mum or sister, would not see him for weeks or until I call him to see if hes ok, only then he would come back home…for 3yrs the relationship was a rollercoaster, I got into a state of permanent stress leading to depression, he was accusing me that i was difficult to live with that was why all my other relationship had failed in the past, he accused me of trying to control him and so on…..
At the beginning he was calling me angel, how quickly he said he was in love with me, within a week he took me to meet his family who treated me like a princess….
yes sometimes we do think that the problems are with us when people treat us bad, anyways 3 yrs down the line, I met his exwife in town, shes now married to someone else, we had a little chat, everything she told me about my BF was so true, I could see a repeat of their relationshp, same pattern….she told me she got married to him early into the relationship, My ex also ask me to marry him 4 months into the relationship, I thought it was too soon so I said lets wait a bit more, 2 months later I started to see his true personality, but still I stuck around for 3 years trying to change a 44yrs old man. We broke up 5months ago and im now moving on with my life, my ex is already dating someone new, we live in a small village on a small island and we attend the same church, people werre so use to seeing us together all the time and he use to tell the locals how special I was and so on..now hes with someone new and the news spread fast….