Everybody wants to be liked. We can’t help it and it’s normal. We all want acceptance and fear rejection. How much we want and fear these things however, has a great deal to do with our happiness and the general quality of our lives.
When our journey involves banking too much of our self-esteem (including our perceived worth) on how much we’re liked, it predisposes us to having a greater sensitivity to rejection. When the route we take is determined by our fear of rejection and we have a lengthy index of things that we equate to meaning rejection (e.g. experiencing disappointment, hearing / receiving no, people not wanting to change, experiencing conflict, people we like not agreeing with us all the time, people not living up to our assumptions etc.,) our actions become very geared towards protection. We take routes that end up limiting us because what we do is driven by what we think and unless we’re thinking “I’m afraid of ______ but I’m going to go ahead and do _____”, what we’re thinking is “I’m afraid of _____ so I need to protect myself by doing ________ which I think will help me to avoid/minimise it or by doing ______ which I think could let me try and get what I want without risking myself” and it invariably ends in tears. Like when we’re afraid of putting ourselves out there so we opt into a casual relationship.
Everyone wants to be liked but we can spend a lot of our time here repeating the module of lessons that when we’re ready to heed them, teach us that what we’ve been seeking is something that we’ve had the power to give to ourselves. We’re at our happiest when we practice self-acceptance instead of our perception and treatment of us being conditional. We think we’ll be happiest when ‘everybody’ likes us which is like trying to cup the ocean in our hands, and even if it’s not ‘everybody’, we can still end up seeking an ever shifting ‘critical mass’ – we convince ourselves that there’s a tipping point of the adoption of Product Us. We think our lives will be so much better when we feel confident that people who we think matter oh-so-much are seeing us in exactly the way that we want to be seen.
Do I want to be liked? Yeah sure, but I want to like me more than I want others to like me because when it was the other way around, I quite literally hated myself and what I’d come to represent.
There’s a fine line between wanting to be liked and needing to be liked, where your life becomes about seeking popularity with certain designated folk, being admired, and having people pat you on the back and validate that you’re doing a ‘good job’ at being you. When I see the torture that people of all ages put themselves through these days, it’s like we’re trying to run our own fan clubs.
We want to be liked but we can be guilty of crossing into collecting attention. We go from having self-esteem to believing that self-esteem is the level of external attention and validation received. It’s like we’re trying to live in a ‘live Facebook’ full of ‘likes’ and comments.
I want to be liked but I don’t want to be liked that much, “that” being that point where it’s actually need and I’m prepared to bust my own boundaries, standards, values, beliefs, happiness, and basically my identity and my life.
I’ve learned the hard way that if I don’t like me, it really doesn’t matter who likes me whether they’re being genuine or not. I used to question what these people saw in me or expect them to be disappointed in a matter of time due to my ‘flaws’.
You have to walk around in your body, you have to look you in the eye, and you have to carry around your head full of thoughts and go to sleep at night after spending your waking hours tapdancing for your fan club and then doing the splits into the doormat move. You’re the one who will have to live with the bullshit.
You cannot be liked by everyone, but you know what? The sky isn’t going to fall down, you’ll live to fight another day, and you don’t like everyone either. Even saints didn’t like everyone so don’t kid yourself that you’re the Patron Saint of Liking.
People are going to think what they’re going to think and do what they’re going to do irrespective of how much you attempt to control the uncontrollable. They are living their lives. You can keep trying to take over the controls, or auditioning or even campaigning, but they’re going to think and do what they want. End of.
Convincing is a drag and a suspicion inducer. The harder you try to be liked, is the harder the person who you’re breaking your spirit over will find it to like you, not least because trying to be liked is different to living your life and being you and being liked as a byproduct of healthy interactions.
You’re just not that desperate.
Get on with the business of living. Are you being you? Are you on a low BS diet and being honest with respect? Do you like who you are? Are you willing to get uncomfortable, assert yourself and face conflicts instead of being a people pleaser? Are you being and doing as you expect from others? Are you living your life according to your values? Is it a definite no-no for selling you down the river? That’s the stuff that matters, not being liked by everyone.
You know how you feel about being liked is healthy when you know what your identity is. You know that it’s unhealthy when your identity is whatever you think will get you approval at any given moment.
The funny thing is that yeah, some people aren’t going to like you because they don’t like something about you, but actually, it is far from always being about something you’ve ‘done’ and often it’s about them and how they feel about an aspect of themselves. Not everyone is going to like you but they’re not people who you need to be giving your energy to.
Your thoughts?
About the Author:
Natalie Lue is the founder and writer of Baggage Reclaim and author of the books Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship and more. Learn more about her here and you can also follow her on Facebook and Twitter - @baggagereclaim .
Natalie (NML) – who has written 1082 posts on Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue.
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I just wanted to share one more thing. I found this article online which seems to depict to a “T” what my ex was. I know NML has mentioned many times that these men tend to be “passive aggressive” but i never really knew what that meant. I find it helps for me to understand better that things were not my fault. I hope this helps others out there. Pretty interesting stuff…
http://divorcedwomenonline.com/2010/10/30/the-passive-aggressive-man-he-is-all-about-control/
Omg I think my ex is both. lol No wonder there was so much crazymaking
http://padontstandforpaloalto.wordpress.com/2010/08/03/is-your-passive-aggressive-a-narcissist/
oh, man confused!! that link is great.
now i realize how true this was of the ex-EUM (broke up a year ago – a 3.5-month relationship it took me 8 months to get over – THIS IS HIM!! exactly.
Oh Confused2! I’m weeping for you. For me. For every person out there who has lived that post. Oh yes, that kind of manipulation is abuse. It took me a long time to see it. And it still kinda hurts. There are times I think I would’ve preferred the physical abuse. It’s much more straight forward. I’m farther along on my journey and it has gotten WAY better. I can actually laugh about a lot of it now. But NC is the only way to go. And in answer to your last two questions: Yes, you will. It may take some time but you really will. Hugs.
There is nothing wrong with me. My clothes are lovely. With the ex I was so self conscious about what I wore. I wanted to look perfect for him and he could be so critical. I can’t afford a lot of things. But I like my clothes, do the best I can with what I have, and am grateful for them. There is nothing wrong with me because I work an 8 to 5. I have done, and do, a lot of good at my job. My ex criticized 8 to 5 jobs, saying he’d rather die than work one. There is nothing wrong with my glasses. Yes, they are giant and a half an inch thick. (I have very poor vision.) My ex criticized them, saying they made my eyes look smaller. There is nothing wrong with the fact that I am extremely sedentary. I am a book nerd to the extreme. And not in a ‘I do it to be cool or intellectual’ way either. I spend an immense amount of time in my bed reading self help books. There is nothing wrong with the fact that, though I am short, and don’t weigh that much, I still manage to be chubby. There is nothing wrong with how my belly sticks out as if I am 3 month pregnant. I’ve had the same body type since I was 4; I just got taller and a bit of boobs. There is nothing wrong with this. There is nothing wrong with the fact my hair is growing toward my waist because I don’t want to get a haircut, as I’m still dealing with a pesky concussion from hitting my head on a refrigerator while cleaning it out. There is nothing wrong with my abnormally large feet and deep voice or the fact that despite being educated, I am a terrible speller. There’s nothing wrong with the fact my dog is my best friend, I think my grandpa is the coolest guy I know and still handsome at 89, and that I hate bars, clubs and crowds and that my idea of pleasure is my Art History class or that I drink Slim Fast with my meals and otherwise, just because it tastes fucking good, or that I think profanity gets way too bad of a rap, or that I find flossing my teeth great fun or that I like kid movies, think children make more/ better sense than most adults I know or that string cheese is a staple of my diet. It should be a food group really. There’s nothing wrong with the fact I cry in public (kind of a lot), get really angry lately, throw eggs at the side of my house (well my grandparent’s house and I wouldn’t recommend it. It smells terrible. ) Okay so maybe there is something wrong with that one. And I hate fragrances. What’s the deal?! Not everything is supposed to smell like caramel apple and fresh linen all the time. I hate the way laundry detergent smells too. It’s not even a pleasant smell. What quack whipped that up?
Ranting aside, I loved my ex more for his human quirks; his humanness. I loved his abnormally large mishapen, prematurely balding head. I loved his small, beady murky blue eyes, I loved his crooked, yellowing teeth, his disproportionately long arms and tiny short legs. I loved his terrible homemade tattoos (god I hope they were homemade, as no sane tatoo artist would put that on human skin. It seriously looked like a third grader drew their rendition of Miles Davis on his stomach. But not to insult a third grader, it was probably some wacko with a needle and pen, or pawn shop tatoo gun.) I loved him despite all his health problems (hmmm maybe even because of them. I would have felt too insecure with an all around healthy man.) I loved him irrespective of the fact that he dressed like a 15 year old, as a 25 year-old-man, all the while, he persecuted me (in all fairness, no more than I did myself) for not being perfect. He hated my humanness, whereas I loved his. I was not allowed to be human, make a mistake, express needs or even have them for that matter. The first time I gave any indication I had needs, he made it clear he was out of there. Such cruel bullshit. He NEVER deserved me or my imperfectness. He wants a robot with whom he can manipulate, maneuver and control. I acquiesced, until I didn’t. I’m not a fucking robot. I am a real human being with feelings and thoughts and opinions all my own. I don’t need him. He can go build him a fucking robot. He did like to build things. Wait…he doesn’t have to, the ex took him back.
I will never take him back. This is not a rom com. This is my fucking life. And it IS important. It matters. I MATTER.
JT… That was an awesome post
.. We are just human after all. I have this poster/picture as follows:
I’m Just ME… Full of flaws,scars & insecurities. I know the one who truly loves me will see beyond them all and embrace who I am, despite my imperfections, and love me just the way I am . I’m Just Me….
That was awesome, Jennifer. Thanks for sharing. You sound like a really cool chick who knows who she is. I’d totally hang with you.
Gracious ladies, I’d hang with you all instead of what I used to hang with. You guys have set the bar pretty high. Jennifer Tiffany, what a lovely post. You really added such a thoughtful dimension to Natalie’s comment: “We’re at our happiest when we practice self-acceptance instead of our perception and treatment of us being conditional”. As you described your acceptance of the ex’s flaws as well as your own, I could help but think about how I’ve been so accepting and forgiving of others, including the exMM, and then how I come down like a ton of bricks on myself for the slightest “imperfection”. Thank you for the insight. Good for you for not taking him back. Your comment sent me down the “I am so grateful for what I have and being me”, albeit with tons of flaws. I’m okay and pretty much good enough. Thanks to you all and Natalie, I could be rounding the bend into liking me, including the wrinkles around my eyes and knees.
Great comment Better Late Than Never! This really sums up my experience and steels my NC, too:
“In my case, the only way I have managed to stay No Contact for 3 months so far is to remind myself multiple times per day what a selfish fucking asshole this guy was/is/always will be.
Of course he would never see it that way and he had every excuse in the book for treating me like shit over and over. I, like you, tried to be ‘understanding, loving, supportive, etc.’ but guess what? To men like this, that reads as ‘I will take any amount of shit you dish out to me and always come back for more. Nothing is too horrible for me to tolerate in the name of a relationship with you, so have at it.’”
BTW, I’ve been NC 8 months after a huge blow up and he’s still making random attempts at “friendly” contact/attempting to hit the re-set button. As if. End of.
To Simple Pleasures, Victorious et al
Thanks for the positive affirmations, last week was tough, tomorrow I find out whether my two year sustainability program is down the drain or not. Re. My crappy upbringing; I don’t see my rejection by my own family as being a source of baggage, I wrote off family a long, long, time ago and my dad, the last of said family, knows better than to ever suggest that I act white or try to fit into mainstream society ever again. He finally is realizing what a badass lil Miskwa really is. Sp, you are right, AC was an AC long before Miskwas time. I didn’t know that at the time: what bugs me is that I was perhaps one of the few that didn’t know about his history and no one said a damned thing. However, I really kept my involvement with him a secret from colleagues. He did make an accusation a month ago that dark folk like me kept him from getting jobs due to affirmative action. Vic, keep encouraging that kid of yours; my generation is leaving them a world where they will HAVE to learn self sufficiency, urban/rural food production generally life without cheap fossil fuels. A good thing and a bad thing too. No more Crackbook, American idol and similar rubbish but also no more food and water for many.
Miskwa, re people not telling you about the AC….I remember asking a friend about a guy I was just starting to date as a mutual friend told me she had dated him in the past. She told me, “Oh yeah, Phil is a great guy.” When he was horrid to me and he dumped me, she fessed up that he was such a shit to her that she actually cleaned under the rim of his toilet with his toothbrush!!! So much for the sisterhood! Good luck with the sustainability programme.
Miskwa, I just VOMITED on the feet of yr ex AC re his REDICULOUSLY RACIST comment! Ugh! Will be AWESOME if he never returns. I get the sense karma might be catching up with him. Let’s hope it runs him OUT OF TOWN so you & yr sustainability minded friends can get on with your lives in PEACE! Hugs. T
I get it Rev. Of course there are those we ADMIRE & RESPECT who we hope will feel similarly toward us. If they don’t though, it always says more about them than us.
Very happy for you too, having such a wonderful Mother. I don’t have one, but despite a traumatic history re my son’s paternity, I do my utmost to try to BE one. xx
Also, Lacy, I didn’t realise in my first post that you were also the same person who was subjected to this ASSHOLE making you BLEED & trying to pressure you into threesomes. This PIG also SEXUALLY ABUSIVE. PLEASE, stay away from him, as I know you are trying to do. What you have experienced is ABUSE of the most horriffic kind. You don’t deserve that Lacy, no woman does. What he has done is NOT ok & you need that message to ring LOUD & CLEAR by going & staying NC to PROTECT yourself. Also, please DO enlist support wherever you can find it in your area. You are describing charactaristics of demestic violence, even if this fucker didn’t actually punch or hit you with his hands or fists. Domestic violence services in your area might be able to provide some free counselling if you contact them. Remember domestic violence is not just punching & hitting, but includes emotional & sexual abuse too, both of which, I have no doubt you have endured. And be gentle with yourself hey, on EVERYTHING except for him. Make him history FOR GOOD & you will slowly start to heal. Hugs. T x
Thank you teachable for your words of encouragement I appreciate it so much and everyone else replies too .I had a feeling that loving him was something I had to work hard and run through all this drama and in the end he’d show me love in return.I have heard from him and his friends that as long as he came back to me and I shouldn’t complain,also got advice from some women with similar situations as mine that say that the Ac was pretty fair to me and because he looks good I should be happy to have any kind of relationship with him,and that if I wasn’t with him on his terms that I would be alone I assume for good.If that’s my reality why when we were together or not together,cause I do have some sense to know that wasn’t a relationship,why did I feel miserable 70% of the time being around him?God does not intend for my life to live in continuous hurt,so I figure that type of advice I don’t need and those women I don’t need to associate myself with if that’s their view on how a man should behave.I guess as Nat would say those people were part of his Harem.I am not trying to make him out to be a Villain,I am no angel,I just stated the true facts of my encounter with him and I wouldn’t do the things he’s done to anyone,and Nat said in one post u can’t think if I were them I do this or that or I wouldn’t do certain things especially that he believes them to be okay and fair that everyone thinks different even though its not right we have different beliefs in life,also another reason he and I need to stay away from each other.Maybe I haven’t got mad enough yet.This situation that happened between he and I may be different from how he treats others,because yes from stories other woman have had similar problems with him and at the same time he had times when he would make attempts to be half way normal and plenty others seen that side I seen it rarely and that’s what made me think is it something I did to deserve him to act like this towards me?But reading BR thanks to Nat and u guys I know its nothing I can do or say to influence him to treat me how I want to be treated in his eyes he was fair.I just have to move on and work on learning to love me.I have been Nc he calls and text twice a day I know he will get tired.I just seen him driving down the same street I was he was going in the opposite direction and I went into I wonder who he’s with now which I know one of the baby mothers or someone else and that’s the part that had me break Nc several times before.I kept drifting back to I’m losing out on being with him,but I haven’t called and I won’t my pride won’t let me and although we been off and on for a while its been at least 6mths since I dialed his num,I only respond when he calls or text I guess he lowered my expectation so much I gave up on calling him up to see him,I will get thru this I know breaking contact will lead to me hurting myself and I don’t want to continue to live like this anymore.Oh hugs back to everyone especially you Nat.
Just read Lilly’s reply to Rev’s. You made me chuckle Lilly. Rev’s IS a kickass chickybabe & so are YOU even if you don’t yet see it. I see it in you. You’re just a more refined version of kickass – the steel magnolia version as Revs said (luv yr work Revs, lol)!
I reckon the secret to being a kickass is VERY simple. It comes from not ALLOWING others to define you, not NEEDING their validation or permission for ANYTHING & just being yourself; a person who knows how to assert their wants & needs, respectfully, as well as, making things HAPPEN.
With this though comes the need to really step up & be totally responsible FOR OURSELVES. Fully. Wholly. Absolutely. Including all the triumphs & the mess ups (& there will be many of both as such is life). lol
It’s about not relying on ‘getting a partner one day’ who will provide for us make us financially secure. Bugger that! Build a career & EARN YOUR OWN MONEY & make YOURSELF financially secure!
It’s about not worshipping the feet of some dweeb just because he’s smart & well educated! Bugger that! Get yr ass off to uni & educate yr bloody self!
It’s about not fawning over some mostly unemployed bozo just because he plays an instrument/makes art/is an actor etc. Bugger that! Get out there & nurture your OWN creativity! Join a dance academy, singing group, pottery class – whatever floats yr boat – just DO IT!
It’s about not worshipping some uneducated arm candy who HAPPENS to be a gifted athlete just because he looks good in a pair of speedos & earns good $ in a career, which lets face it, has a LIMITED lifespan! Bugger that! Join a gym, start a running or walking group with friends, or if you’re REALLY a rebel, take on a male dominated sport, like martial arts or boxing, & EXCELL at it!
The kickass motto for me, was summed up by a quote which I THINK came from Courtney Love. She once said, ‘don’t FUCK the captain of the football team, BE the captain of the football team’.
Coarse? Yes. Good advice? Absofuckinglutely!
Teachable,
You said,
“I reckon the secret to being a kickass is VERY simple. It comes from not ALLOWING others to define you, not NEEDING their validation or permission for ANYTHING & just being yourself; a person who knows how to assert their wants & needs, respectfully, as well as, making things HAPPEN.”
Love love love this! It CAN that simple but we make it so hard on ourselves sometimes trying to be liked by others instead of just learning to like ourselves.
Teachable,
I second Selkie. Amazing post!
I’m uncharacteristically speechless, Teach. That is exactly what it is, every single bit of it.
Lilly, I’m going to explain something to you, dear. While it’s true that for the most part I don’t care what people think, it’s not because I have some amazing “kickass gene” that I was born with. The reason I have been molded into this woman is because, at a young age, I was a bright, bushy-tailed innocent who didn’t expect anything but love and sunshine from life. Somewhere along the way, after being judged and treated harshly by both adults and peers just for being who I was, I realized that people usually didn’t know what the fuck they’re talking about. I mean, come on. Yelling at a little girl for happily singing herself a song? Bullying someone just because she’s well-liked because she’s friendly to everyone in school, and not just one specific clique? There was a serious case of projection and/or jealousy going on there. Projection in the sense that some saw something vulnerable in me and viewed it as weakness, and therefore wanted to stomp on it because it reminded them of the vulnerability in themselves. Jealousy because I was so happy and content in my innocence, and they weren’t happy or content. So, in reply, it made me lose respect for most people’s opinions of me. There were WAY too much shady motivations out there to make them meaningful.
So I now come to you, Lilly. Do you think I haven’t had moments (MANY moments) in my life were I worked myself into a pretzel, trying to hit all the various marks that people set out for me of what I *should* be, look, and act like? Do you think I haven’t curled up into a ball and cried on the floor of the shower, multiple times? Do you think I haven’t cowered, been silent, cried like a baby (even as an adult) due to other people’s words and actions? I have done all of these things. I felt like a target for bullies most of my life, first because I was so open and unexpecting of bad things. Then later, because I just got so fed up that I actually started walking down streets and BEGGING people to fuck with me, because I was just so done with these whackjobs. Now, at 35 years old, I have (hopefully) discovered a balance, and I only fight bullies by leaving their presence. Vengeance is not mine, but God’s. And yet I hope that they learn their lesson before then. Because, guess what? I’m still that open, sunshiney little girl who wants the best for everyone. And NOBODY’s gonna beat that out of me, whether by words or by fists.
Lilly, I know that this is an online forum and we don’t know each other in real life. It’s easy to spread love and cheer without thinking, but this isn’t the way I operate. When I say something, I’ve thought about it first. And, based on my perception of you due to your comments, you ARE a kickass chick. And, yes, a steel magnolia. I don’t think you fully realize (yet) the strength that you really have, that we all see. You look at people like Teach and I and read our blustery, fiery words and think, “Wow, I wish I was like that.” We read your words of struggle and victory, of tears and then discernment, of slowly but surely struggling to the surface of a good decision, despite the tides threatening to carry you away. We read these words and think, “Damn. Now THAT’S a kickass chick.” And you leave us toughies in the dust.
Rev,
I truly believe there’s a powerful connection between the words we use to describe ourselves and the results we get. You’ve just made me feel that not only will I get through this, but will come out the other end stronger (and wiser) thank you.
Teachable, the same goes for your previous post, thank you.
Lilly,
*warm and fuzzies*
“I reckon the secret to being a kickass is VERY simple. It comes from not ALLOWING others to define you, not NEEDING their validation or permission for ANYTHING & just being yourself; a person who knows how to assert their wants & needs, respectfully, as well as, making things HAPPEN.”
Let’s make it happen, oh Teachable, I love this!–On Leaving Sugarland
Lilly
You ARE a kickass chick; you have gone thru the worst atuff a woman could go through and you are moving not just on but ahead. I too wish there were grizzlies in this state.
Thanks Teach, yep, his mysterious absence which no one talks about, at least to me, is very weird. I di know some karma is coming his way when he returns but whatevers going on, he’s basically gotten the semester off from teaching whilst the rest of us take up the slack and slog away. If he indeed leaves for good, there will be a huge collective sigh of relief. On the other hand, my supervisor is begging me not to leave.
God, just reading some of these comments on here makes me near tremble with rage at what these men get away with. It’s not that I feel ANY rage or that anger should be directed toward ANY of these women. It’s quite the the contrary. I’ve been there, giving sick men my love. It’s just time and time again I see beautiful (inside and out) women with deplorable men. No, it’s not always like this, nor does it have to be. I have to ask, is there some sort of spiritual thing going on here. Does darkness, and okay I never thought I’d be referencing this in a million years, but Satan or evil or whatever you call it have some vendetta against woman?!! All of the warm, loving men I know have some GENIUNE (this is key, it being authentic, and you can’t really discern if that’s so until you get to know someone over time in a variance of circumstances) positive spiritual mindset.
Tinkerbell, thank you for your thoughtful reply! Yes, we do catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. You mengioned how you can be over-protective of yourself and loved ones due to past experiences. I’ve noticed that I often have to guard my boundaries a little more closely as well.
Oops…I’m doing this from my pbone & accidentally hit “publish”.
Tinkerbell, I too am working on how I respond to people. I’m learning to focus on the other person when responding. It isn’t about the worthiness of the person ; it’s about honoring my own values, one of which is the dignity of all human life.
Lois Lane, we can start our own girl band with our hit song, “Too Sexy to Be Rude”.
Courtney, thank you for another articulate, thoughtful post. I appreciate your educating me on self-harming. I didn’t know that it is as widespread as it is and it can attack people from all kinds of backgrounds. I knew it is quite prevalent with people who have been sexually abused or teens who have autism but that’s all I knew.
Ok, then. With your permission I’ll say a prayet for you. I’m with Dancingqueen. It doesn’t sound as if your friend is a friend. You deserve better and you’re right–there is an important impact for you to make on this planet!
Cc… sorry to hear the new fellow didn’t work out. I haven’t got my head around what happened yet, (very ill & not reading/posting much atm) but I know you will have made a sound decision. Another one to chalk up to experience. At least you are putting yrself out there & having a crack. Hugs T x
Selkie, Sugarland, Revs, Lilly. Thankyou for your feedback. You will all pee yrselves laughing to know I ALMOST didn’t post that post! Why? Insecurity! The voices of those from my childhood were whispering in the back of my mind, ‘who do you think you are Teach, to tell anyone, what being kickass is about (even if, only in my opinion)? It was only at the last moment I thought, bugger it, & hit send (from my ph, which is why my spelling, grammar etc is always so terrible, lol).
Deciding to hit send was actually a mental experiment. I thought, oh well, if ppl think I’m being ‘up myself’ or having tickets on myself or something by posting this, perhaps I will be able to gauge that, from the responses or lack thereof. I decided it would a ‘learning post’ for me. A way of experimenting with trying to learn how to just stand in the world as I see it, without actually crossing the line into coming across as ‘up myself’. I’m glad the post was taken as intended, as that means I must be succeeding in learning to find the balance with these things.
I’d add that this wasn’t an experiment in wanting to get ppl to ‘like me’. Some do. Some don’t. I don’t like everyone either! Such is life! I missed out on so much socialisation as a child though, in terms of positive peer interactions during what were critical years for this (3-12) that I still have very subtle difficulties, discerning how to ‘be’ in the world. (As throughout those years I was horribly abused & bullied in the place I lived in). I try my best to just ‘be’ myself. I figure if ppl don’t like that, it’s their problem not mine.
Lilly, Rev’s has got yr back. Listen to her & know she speaks the truth. x
Rev’s I couldn’t find your post, although I did look. Although I’m an atheist, we are very much on the same page & of the same ilk. I’m nodding along with all you say. Your posts to people are always very supportive & positive. You ought to be very proud of who you are in the world. x
See, this is why I love you Teach. (Refer to ALL you’ve written above.) And yes, we are very much on the same page. I find my self vigorously nodding (a commenter once said that in her comment, and it cracked me up) at everything you write too. I know you feel me. So much to say in reply, but I know you feel me, babe.
Lacy
You are RIGHT. Breaking NC, even if by replying when HE initiates contact, (or smoke signals, carrier pidgeon, ir ANY WAY AT ALL) WILL be YOU hurting YOURSELF.
So, you are also RIGHT to CHOOSE not to do this to yourself anymore.
You know Lacy, no-one in life can ever really protect us, if we fail to protect ourselves.
Read the stories here. People LOSE SO MUCH in these relationshits. Careers, finances, marriages, health, self respect, dignity, THEIR MINDS. Some, in utter despair, even take their lives or attempt to do so.
Don’t let the CANCER which is HIM infecting yoir life with his BULLSHIT take anything more from you.
YOU have the POWER to STOP this whole situation. YOU have the POWER to stay NC & say to yourself NO MORE.
If you cannot do it for yourself just yet, (this will come in time), THINK OF YOUR KIDS. They need a mum who is EMOTIONALLY AVAILBALE TO THEM, not one who is preoccupied with this asshole’s BS.
Get some help like I said & focus on YOU now & your children. It wont be easy. It WILL be worth it.
I wish you well. T x
Hey. Somebody loves me! Thanks Revo! Cheered me up & made me laugh! lol I’m giving you ‘that look’, which good friends exchange, when they don’t need to say what the other is thinking, as they just know, in relation to yr comment, ‘so much to reply to’ & ‘getting it’. It get you totally Rev & I sense you get me too.
I would just add, when all that horrible abuse & bullying was going on (& actually it continued I realise until age 14, not 12, when I finally engineered my escape from that particular hellhole), my ‘problem’ was, I refused to just sit back & take it. Quite the contrary, I fought back TWICE as hard. It’s very sad looking back as by the age of only 7 yo, I was starting to have episodic physically violent outbursts, in retaliation, at first directed at woman who ran that children’s home, as she was the LEADER of the other kids bullying me.
Later these episodes were directed at the other kids also (although their bullying was mostly not physical), as the bullying never stopped, & merely esculated. In the end, lashing out physically was the only way I could communicate, ‘you’d better stop fucking with me, or I’ll literally break your fucking nose!’ It got so bad that eventually, I could not be left alone with the other kids as trouble would always flare. The other kids joined in with the bullying of course, as doing so, curried favour, with the lead bully; the woman who ran the place. As the kids all went to my school also I was a very lonely child. Of course their cruelty hurt, especially the woman who ran the place, she was a sadist & I practically called her out on this, which she HATED knowing I knew EXACTLY what I was dealing with. In the end, it was so extreme, my own baby sister was.forced to join sides with the bullies as the dominant group against me, for her own survival. She was the last to turn against me but even THAT which they all thought would.break me, did not. I was too smart for them. I knew what was happening & forgave her even as she turned knowing she had.no clue as to the bigger picture of the dynamics.
I always refused to let any of them ever see me cry. I saved that for times when I could steal away alone. I would not give them that satisfaction.
So I guess, I learned not being liked, & being loathed & hated.even, is not something I should ever worry myself about. When I left that place, not surprisingly, I morphed into a kid was.had no trouble being popular & well liked amoung my (somewhat troubled) peers. I always knew it was them & not me.
My only ‘hangover’ from it all is still sometimes not being quite sure if I’m behaving in a socially ‘fitting in’ way or not, b.c I didn’t learn what that is, but I’m kinda figuring it out (I think). I’ve realise too, there’s a whole heap of ways in which I choose not to fit in & that perfectly preferrable for me. Being teetotal is one. Being resolute about placing my need to be financially independent as a priority above a relationship is another. Others might make different choices. I respect that, however, these choices are the right ones for me.
Hugs x
I just read that back & have to say, it’s not comfortable revealling all that. Who enjoys admitting they were the hated child? No-one I suppose & yet I do realise, I’m not alone. I’m sure others have experienced being the nominated despised child. I think I’ve read bits & pieces of ppls stories alluding to this on BR. The funny thing is, as I reflect more on this unpalatable history (not least due to my shame at the violent outbursts, which I honestly at the time, could not control, having been pushed to the edge of my sanity & having no1 around to teach me a better way & there being no escape, for all those long years & there WERE some attempts to physically bully me also, by older kids, so don’t get me wrong, although they eventually backed off, b.c I would literally go troppo, ie GOOD! lol), I realise one might expect I’d have become somewhat desperate to be liked as I grew older, out of craving this. I don’t know why I didn’t go in that direction. Possibly due to getting professional help at a very young age (17 yo) & this then being ongoing, as needed.
One other thing I reflected on, was my initial insecurity about whether I ought to post my definition of what being kickass is all about. I perhaps ought not mention this, I don’t often but as an adult, over many years earned two second dan black belts in two different styles of martial arts (which is essentially four black belts). In one of them, I was the FIRST FEMALE IN THE WORLD, to achieve that ranking. And YET here I was, second guessing myself, wondering if I would seem ‘up myself’ for posting that post, deep inside, thinking, ‘who am *I* to think I am qualified to speak to such a topic’?
Not sure if anyone is following me here, but this is a woman who LITERALLY HAS KICKED ASS, in a male dominated sport to achieve a WORLD FIRST; something very few people ever achieve in any sporting endeavour! It defies logic huh? So there you go! This only goes to show the shit which goes on in my head sometimes, is quite out of sync with the facts!
Teach, girl, all that you reveal just helps us to feel not so alone when we can relate to bits of your story. I know I do. I’m glad that you share on here. You have had some pretty severe trials, as well as some pretty impressive achievements (black belts?! Check you!!). Glad to have you on BR, and please keep sharing. *giving you the friend look back*
I have been using this site for about 6 months now and I have to say I am regularly astonished by the quite AMAZING attributes so many of the contributors have. I am not going to embarrass anyone by singling you out by name, but we have a plethora of high acheiving women who are leaders in their fields. Campaigners, educators, environmentalists, leading academics, and brilliant single mums. It really does endorse my belief that the EUM/AC/Narcs of this world do indeed target the creme de la creme (that’s us) And actually, we are just TOO DAMN GOOD FOR THEM. They know it, we just have to catch up.
teach,
you may be sick, but you have spiritual energy, drive, spark, fire,glow, power,passion, and inner strength. I so admire you.
Sheesh Rev, keep this up & you’ll have me offering to teach you self defence! I used to teach both martial arts & self defence for women & at risk youth, & although I’ve had to stop now due to illness. By saying this, what I mean is, although of course it’s not possible due to us being BR buddies only, I’m complimenting you in one of the highest ways I know how. I don’t make such offers to just any old person (& I don’t care if you’ve already done self defence training. Having taught Federal police officers more advanced techniques than even our elite specialist army forces use, I’ll bet could teach you more)! You have a hell of a LOT to offer too Rev, & I’m glad you’re to share with us also. x
Simple Pleasures. Thankyou for your incredibly kind words. I really didn’t expect anyone to see such things in me at a time when I am at my lowest ebb. I realised today all I need to do is keep fronting up to just each day; no more or less. The support of ppl on BR & IRL really helps me to keep finding the strength to do that so thankyou again. x
I am honored by your compliment, Teach. I’m sure you could show me what’s what in the self-defense department. For now, I’ll have to rely on my dancing skills gleaned from a year of Barre and Zumba classes. Anyone messes with me and I’ll samba on their asses.
Glad to have you on our side, Teach.
Rev and teach I took boxing lessons young and have boxed on a recreation level for years. It’s amazing how so many tough women with achievements get into predicaments we shouldn’t with these guys who aren’t worth our spit. I enjoy both of your posts.
You what Re? Reflecting on all that, just reminds me of the terrible damage inflicted on the r.ship btween my baby sis & I back then. It’s reverberated through our whole lives & combined with our mentally ill Mother’s antics (into which my sis is totally sucked into a sick codependent r.ship) it’s pretty much destroyed any possibility of us having a supportive adult sibling r.ship. I was her protector to the end, until I left that hellhole, & she only turned & sided with the dominant group of bullies against me, not long before I made my escape. We were seperated when I left though, so she was left there a couple more years. She was (how ironic is this) the GOLDEN CHILD of the witch who ran the place. As she was only 18 mth old when we arrived at that place, & the witch who ran the place, had fantasies that my baby sis, was actually her flesh & blood baby. Hence the golden child & also, she was the youngest of all the kids there; the ‘baby’. This is relevent now, as the day before xmas I had reason to confront my sis about some behaviour which she’d done which was innappropriate in relation to the r.ship b.tween my son & I. We’ve had repeated periods of many years of estrangement where I’ve had to cut off from her to protect myself from her manipulativeness. I’m trying not to do that anymore & to talk through our differences instead. I was very respectful in the conversation, using ‘when you do x, I feel y’ statements. She responded by refusing to see my point of view & when I disagreed with her, (even though this was respectfully) she just rudely hung up the phone on me mid sentence. I havent heard from her since. She knows how ill I am & her behaviour totally spoiled my xmas. She’s the only family who even pretends to care, but when it comes right down to it, she does not. She cares more about maintaining her delusions & trying to manipulate people. That’s why we don’t get along. She’s deliberately cut me off from all my nieces & nephews over the years (she has 6 kids) & draws them into adult business that’s not to do with them.
No wonder I’m so down. I can’t wait to get well & move away or start life afresh, hopefully with a partner & family of my own one day. (My sister is in a fake marriage with a man she doesnt love & never has. She only married him as that meant he would support her & she didnt have to educate herself & support herself. A daunting prospect as the first 3 kids were all by diff fathers! She pretends otherwise of course. She admitted as much to me on her wedding day though. It’s very sad as he’s a lovely man & really loves her. Little does he know. It galls me to now watch my sis, whose never worked a day in her life – apart from spreading her legs to collect welfare cheques for kids to diff fathers – NONE of whom she stayed with, & whose later with poor hubby, an average income earner who can’t afford all the extra kids on an average wage, & who didn’t want such a large family ie there were SEVEN children, but one died premmie), to now sit back & dish out ‘advice from on high’ to all & sundry about how they should live their lives.
My sister is so unhappy it’s not funny. And yet she pretends otherwise, to others, at least. Her life would have been SO DIFFERENT if our r.ship had not been so damaged as children b.c she’d have listened to & respected my counsel, which started with, (tried to convince her not to have at all first as she was too young) at baby number 1. NO MORE KIDS UNLESS YOU ARE MARRIED TO THE MAN OF YR DREAMS, & also, GO BACK TO SCHOOL FIRST & COMPLETE YR EDUCATION SO YOU CAN GET A DECENT JOB. Instead, she took what she thought was the easy way out, using more babies as a production means to access greater paying welfare cheques.
Here’s one thing I know. I’m not so desperate not so much to be liked, but more for support during my time of illness, that I will put up with BS from my baby sis. I tried calling her after she hung up on me, & she refused to answer. As such, as heartbreaking as this decision is for me, just like an AC, I’m ok with leaving things there with her, & to not have her causing any further grief in my life, esp at a time, when I am so very ill.
Still sad though. Just heartbreaking. For her. For the unsuspecting hubby (she’s done a right number on him & in times of difficulty he’s already indicated he will leave her everything ie the house ect. Given only three of the 6 kids are his & she’s duped him from the outset, using kinky sex to reel him according to her, ugh, I suspect that one day he might eventually regret this. For now he’s fooling himself it’s actually going to last. So sad.) For the CHILDREN (2 of his have behavioural disabilities). And last but not least, for me too.
I’ve well & truely lost my baby sis Revs & I will never get our once very strong bond back. It’s one of my deepest wounds. All those years I spent, literally at fisticuffs, protecting her. And this is how it all turned out. My baby sis not there for me in return in my time of need (just on the ph even I mean or emotionally. With so many kids i’d never expect too much from her).
Nat’s right. I’m not THAT desperate to be liked. Not even by my baby sis
Teach babe, in keeping with the topic at hand, I agree that you mourning your relationship with your sis is not as much about desperation to be liked, but just a sad byproduct of someone else using their free will (damn that free will!!!
) to make poor decisions that lead to you no longer wanting them in your life. Or, scratch that: no longer being ABLE to have them in your life, because they are so toxic. We really are the sum of our choices in life. Unfortunately, due to (ironically enough, and among other things) your sister’s need to be liked, she forfeited a healthy relationship with her sister. And there’s nothing you can do but accept it, right? And yeah, it hurts. I know. I’ve lost many friends due to not being “desperate” to be liked, despite all sort of tomfoolery that went down with them. Ah, it boggles the mind what some people view as decent behavior. Stay far away and mourn, and cherish what little good memories you have of your sister, are my few words of wisdom. I’m not trying to be flippant about this subject (quite the contrary), but at some point, you just have to shrug your shoulders and say, “What can you do?” (((Hugs)))
That’s awesome Beth. We do some boxing as part of our core martial arts training, but mix it up a bit with kick boxing also (we can’t help ourselves, why restrict yourself to two weapns, when you really have four, or five actually, if you include your head! lol). Boxing per se is a totally different sport to martial arts though, as you’d know, although is actually next on my list to tackle, once I get well (along with Roller Derby). I did start just as I became ill & was totally unimpressed when I was forced to drop out. I was really interested to see what might ‘cross over’ from one sport to the other. I could tell from the outset I had a definate advantage compared to say, a total beginer, but also a lot to learn! Glad u enjoy the posts.
One of my best friends is an advanced black belt. She was my favorite friend to go dancing with as we both love club dancing. We use to fool around all the time fighting. She always says with all I know…I am smart enough to know you are dangerous. ha ha I would never let her get too close to me because I knew she had the advantage at close range. I use to do the mohammed ali dance with her. I def employed kicking when her and I messed around. It sort of came naturally to me as a former cheerleader but she did teach me some techniques. I did like it alot. Are you better re your illness? I hope so.
Thank you for your appreciative comment, Beth D. I have laughed quite a few times when reading your comments too! And I’m very impressed at the boxing, Miss Thang. Check us chicks OUT!!!!
Oh & Rev, I’d LOVE to learn Zumba. It looks like SO much fun! You must be VERY fit! Not sure if barre is ballet? If so, you are VERY talented. Ballet is not a dance style for the faint hearted & incredibly physically demanding! If we were IRL I would swap you self defence training for Xumba lessons! LOL
Teach, I’m shite at pretty much everything else, movement-wise, but dance. I would gladly teach you Zumba. We’d have a blast! When you’re well enough, promise me to find a class somewhere Down Under (right?)and try it, and maybe even a barre (yes, ballet exercises) class too! Our barre instructor is a sadist, which is one of the things I love best about the class.
Talk about a woman not desperate to be liked!
Teach
Your sister sounds like my remaining brother who cut off contact with me years ago rather than listen to me when I told him he ought to quit gambling, get help, start paying his bills, get an education, and for cripes sake, learn to love his own children. Hasn’t done any of those things as far as I know. I seriously thought of teaching a womens self defense class at the battered womens shelter. Beings as how restraining orders are useless here as they’re not enforced, I figured a much more direct approach was needed. You could probably teach (pun intended) a thing or two along those lines.