If he doesn’t end the relationship, why can’t you end the relationship?
I was reading comments on my recent post ‘He broke up with me because he met someone else - Is he a bastard?’ and a couple of lines from one commenter stood out because they reflect a problem that is at the heart of our poor relationships with men:
“But, if he had said that things didn’t seem to be working for a few months already, why didn’t he just have the balls to end the relationship at that point and be single for a while?”
Now whilst to a certain extent I can understand why we say and think things like this, it is half hearted view because there are two people in a relationship, it takes two to tango, and why should it be always down to the man to opt out of the relationship? In fact, this mentality raises some key questions that I’m hoping will get your opinions flowing:
If he doesn’t have the balls to end it, why don’t you end it?
If he is not happy in the relationship, why are you still happy with the relationship?If you know that things aren’t working and that he only has one foot in the relationship or even neither of them, why don’t you end it? Why are both of your feet in it?
If he doesn’t think that things are working, what is it about the relationship that works for you?
If he doesn’t want you, why do you want him?
If he is not being the man you thought he was or believed that he could be, why don’t you end it? Why do you expect him to change?
If his reaction to you treating him well is to treat you poorly, why do you keep endeavouring to treat him better?
If you know it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, why do you keep thinking that it’s a dove?
You see, our mentality about men and relationships is impacted greatly by the existence of these questions because if you find yourself willing to be in a relationship no matter what, these questions will exist.
The questions exist because of the lack of responsibility that we have in the relationship - The onus is being placed on him to take action and to change.
But…
If you’re staying no matter what, the likelihood is that if a guy turns around and says ‘This isn’t working’;'It’s over’, you will still be invested. In fact, you’ll be hearing him, but you won’t be listening.
The general response of a Fallback Girl to a struggling relationship or their guy who doesn’t think it’s working or is half hearted? Try harder, self-blame, keep telling him she loves him, keep saying she’s the best woman for him, keep trying to get him to change, keep going back again and again…
If you’re happy to be in a relationship that someone else has been saying is struggling or that he wants out of, it’s very difficult because really, you’re both co-existing on 2 different relationship planets. If anything, he’s disrupting your sense of reality and this is what many Fallback Girls struggle with. The assclowns and lazy men out there do pick up on this and they get into a mentality of ‘She’s going to keep trying/talking/asking/whatever’ and just go with the flow, try for a while to meet your expectations (if he’s decent) but then come back full circle, or be half hearted or no hearted about trying if he has already pretty much decided that the relationship is a no go.
In getting into reality, we see the truth, and that involves ‘us’ and it will involve some level of change on our parts. By going along with things and being happy with a struggling with a relationship, you are buying time whilst you avoid confronting your fears or seeing things about yourself that you may need to change.
As I’ve said before, you don’t need the words ‘let’s break up’ for a relationship to be over. Some are over long before it becomes official, it’s just that we cling, we try, or we even flog a dead horse.
Many people do end relationships but the problem of women who love emotionally unavailable men and assclowns in general is that when you have two people who don’t want to take the responsibility of ending things, you get a life in limbo. The only way to change things is to put yourself in control of yourself and your relationships rather than giving away your power to men. Don’t be helpless.
When we come back to the original question asked in the comments, yes he could have ended it sooner but so could she. She was there too.
Your thoughts?
My new book How to Lose an Assclown in 90 Days is due out soon but if you want to get ahead on understanding your relationship struggles, especially with emotionally unavailable men, there is also my ebook, Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. Find out more and download.
Nilondoner November 5th, 2008, 2:27 pm
Hi, as always your words prompt thoughts and reflections. but i have a question for you: are there any cases when you think that giving a second chance to a relationships is not a mistake?
I explain: I was with a guy for 4 years. Very decent guy: nice repectful etc. Maybe a bit young. He never cheated but felt the pull of the world outside a committed relationship. Never “misbehaved”. He cared to much about me.
So after four years I let go. I couldn’t bear to be with him if he wasn’t with me wholeheartedly. True I should’ve let go much earlier. but as I said he’s a very decent guy (you don’t ofter find them like that) and I know he cared about me and still does. So I let go and started doing my life trying to find my inner peace.
Recently we started dating again. He’s still a fantastic decent guy. Just going out on dates, no sex and no empty promises. i’m trying to figure out if we can make it work.
Do you think there’s a chance it might work? I’m worried because I know that we wouldn’t want to hurt each other.
NML November 5th, 2008, 2:36 pm
Hi Nilondoner. There are of course instances when giving second chances isn’t a mistake. It’s not that I don’t believe in second chances; I just don’t believe in giving second chances to people who haven’t changed or that are based on groundless expectations. With Fallback Girls for instance, they give second chances for all sorts of crackerjack reasons based not on him but how they would like him to be or what they would do if they were him being given a second chance. Anyway! Back to you! The reason why your second chance could work is because there has been a large gap. You got on with your own life, you didn’t just come to a halt and throw away your life pining for him and there is a possibility that you have both come back full circle to each other, in a different place, with different attitudes and perspective. You would hope after 4 years that he may have matured in his outlook to relationships. There’s no sex and no promises which is good because there isn’t the complication of sexual confusion. That said, you don’t need to make each other ‘promises’ but I wouldn’t let a long time pass with *no* discussion. You say you’re trying to figure out if ‘you’ can make it work. Is he? I hope so!
You have to ensure that your vision of him is based in now, and not in the past, and not in the potential. He *does* need to be different because uncommitted is uncommitted. So yes ,there is a chance.
cuttingpuppetstrings November 5th, 2008, 2:38 pm
Good call. I have to say having been with an incredibly big ass-clown it is difficult to cut the cords and say “bye” because this guy made me feel so incredible and made the real me come out and shine, which made me accept the person that I am. So when he messed me about and made me so confused I was distraught - he would have me chase him around and beg for his attention, this went on until finally I just stopped!
I turned the tables around and stopped calling him, stopped talking to him and made him feel like he didn’t matter. Of course he would then blow hot and say “why are you being so uptight … I miss you … I want to be friends with you … you look cute today … you’re perfect” blah-de-blah-blah. He would get frustrated whenever I would not say “bye” or “hello” at work - yup I have to work with the idiot. I realised that he had no intention of being me exclusively and that he only missed the old me that would follow him around like a pathetic dog - when in reality he is the bloody dog!
Of course I have had some relapses whereby I have met up for lunches with him and flirted a bit but I have at least began to try to end it with him and I am hopefully strong enough to keep him in a safe distance where I can truely see who he really is. I will hopefully stay strong enough to not buy into his words anymore because they mean absolute jack!!
He knows that I am beginning to build my life without him and it is scaring him. All I need to try and do is find happiness within myself, without him .. and I am hopefully going the right way about it. Give me strength
Kim2 November 5th, 2008, 3:27 pm
self-blame…. By going along with things and being happy with a struggling with a relationship, you are buying time whilst you avoid confronting your fears or seeing things about yourself that you may need to change.
OH BOY… did I really need this today
I was the one that left (a year ago!) because he wasn’t in it. Totally took me for granted, hot/cold, blah blah blah. I have been beating myself up because now he is with another woman and seems to be treating her well. In fact, he is giving her the time and attention I wished he had given me. The woman is nice enough but she’s not better. I know I had to quit but it hurts still to see him being real with someone else. I keep wondering why her and not me… I suppose he has his reasons. What I need to work on is my self-esteem. No man will respect me until I respect myself ENOUGH to not put up with bad behavior from any man.
moody.bitch November 5th, 2008, 3:56 pm
Women need to stop handing over all their control and power to choose a relationship TO THE MEN instead of keeping it for themselves. This is why I’m an opponent to “The Talk” - you shouldn’t be wondering and worrying and asking him about “where is this going”; if anything, you should be leaving HIM in the dark about these things.
Being able to see when a relationship isn’t working FOR YOU and deciding it’s time to walk away is a fundamental part of this type of philosophy.
Kim2 November 5th, 2008, 4:53 pm
What seems to help me the most is focusing on what kind of relationship I want and not on WHY I couldn’t get it from a particular man. The more I wonder why he treated me the way he did the more pain and confusion I’m in.
dazedandconfused November 5th, 2008, 5:13 pm
I have thought about this question for some time and here is the answer I have come up with. For the most part I think we stay because we think ‘if he would just call, be more affectionate, do this or that’ we would be happy. We think that his not doing these things is because he is not that in to us so we will work harder or we say ‘he’s a man they do this.’. I told my mother recently that we will make lists about these guys like smart, funny, fit, adventurous but we always seem to think things like ‘good communicator’ is a flex quality that somehow if they are lacking is because of us and is unique to our relationship. Today I am agaonizing over seeing my ex with his new gf thinking well if she doesn’t chase and smother him like I did he won’t lie to her cheat on her etc. These are basic values and morals. I know good people who have cheated that’s not black and white but this guy left me saying he was crazy for me and would be back. Good people don’t do things like that. So I might have come on too strong, he had the ability as a grown man to say so as opposed to use that as a justification for cheating.
So often we stay because are list has more to do with common hobbies etc. But not often about common values. We are so trained to think that if a guy likes us enough they will be a good partner. If someone is emotionally immature and lies out of cowardice that is not going to change. It goes back to the fact that we need to stop blaming ourselves. It’s hard right now I am not taking my own advice and I am already planning ahead for finding out my ex is going to marry this new girl because she did not push him. But I do not respect him and they way he manages conflict. This new girl could be great but they will argue at some point and that’s when he shuts down.
We don’t leave because we have not created a solid list of qualities that goes beyond “enjoys such and such.”. People who lie, don’t communicate, are condecending or whatever else ARE THOSE THINGS and maybe just with you and not the next person that sucks but it’s about 2 people matching. Don’t try and change that accept that for whatever reason that’s who they are at that time and leave.
FinallyOverIt November 5th, 2008, 5:41 pm
I think women don’t leave EUMs because they have low self-esteem and don’t love themselves enough and think they have to settle for less than they deserve. Women don’t leave EUMs because they are actually afraid of having a loving, caring, trusting relationship. They don’t leave because they have found a relationship that is comfortable for them because it is distant and disconnected (true fallback girls will understand this). They don’t leave because they are afraid they will never find anyone else that will want them. They don’t leave because even though the relationship is hurtful and agonizing, the thought of not having anything at all is worse. They don’t leave because they don’t value themselves and their worth, and have found someone that is a constant reminder of this.
dazedandconfused November 5th, 2008, 6:04 pm
I have thought about this issue a lot and here is what I have come up with over time. We tend to look at these men and see qualities like “fit, fun, adventurous, smart, funny, etc.” but we rarely put qualities down like “good communicator, honest, reliable” because we somehow think those qualities are unique to individual relationships rather than the person. That said, we somehow think that our behaviour is what shapes that person in to offering those quailties.
I have now had to face my ex and his new g/f two days in a row. They laugh giggle etc. I keep thinking “maybe he calls her and does not disappear like he did with me” because I always wanted his time, and I wanted to talk a lot. Partly this was due to my abandonment issues and I am sure that contributed at least somewhat if not wholly to the demise of our relationship. BUT, a good communicator would have told me how he felt and not run away rather than coming back telling me he was crazy about me then running away again.
He lied and while I have had people on the other end of my behaviour say “you pushed him in to a corner” I feel that lying is emotional cowardice. It is hard to say to someone “you are too much or are scaring me” he at times did say that actually. Perhaps looking back I did not listen, but he also continued to pull his disappearing acts which furthered my obsessive communication.
Keri, seeing your guy with this new woman is hard. While a lot of what is written on here says do not envy the new woman I am starting to realize that we might have to face that these guys will go on to have happy relationships after us even though we are thinking “how why, aren’t they pulling the same crap?” They might not be… our contribution to the demise of the relationship is somewhere between 10 and 90%. The fact is the next woman might be ok with some of their poor behaviour, or she is not looking for the same level of commitment we were. I am sure my ex started lying to me about where he was going because he knew if he said he wanted to not see me I would have pouted. I play with this in my head daily wondering if I was right to think no it’s not o.k that you want to go off by yourself for the 3rd weekend in a row, or if I am just a clingy woman. There has to be a balance. Either way, rather than addressing this he would just take off and lie to me, only exacerbating my fears. So in the end while we obsessess about wanting to know they are miserable and making the next woman miserable… they might not be. And we too will find a better match.
But the key issue here is good communication, honesty, conflict management are individual traits and we need to judge someone for those things and not think that if we were different they would be different. It means the two of your are not working together. Why don’t they leave… I have no idea! Mine used to say he would work on his communication but he couldn’t do it. Prior to dating me he had a long distance relationship with a woman for many years and I used to say how did they make it work for so long… well he told me they talked twice a week! That to me is insance for a long distance relationship. So, sure maybe this new girl does not mind that they hang out and she has no idea when she will hear from him next and she’s willing to hold out and wait to hear from him again when it suits him and that causes him to “warm up” the way he always said he would with me. Well I am not willing to play that game. I am learning to give new guys space but mostly what that involves is me learning to continue to live my own life despite brining a man into it. But for me talking 2 days a week would have never worked… I enjoy lots of time, and I enjoy sharing things in life together. He wanted to take trips alone and constantly made me feel badly when I would be disappointed. A man at work said to me recently that if a man loves a woman he gets the tiniest sleeping bag and takes her away to be under the stars with him.
Maybe it’s not like this for all relationships but that is what I want. My EUM was fiercely independent (possibly is avoidant attachment issues) I figured this means he’ll always be alone but here he is with a new girl already. Maybe she loves her alone time too, and she doesn’t mind days apart and little talking… that is not me so that is why I am not going to envy her. I think the key with these men is to stop saying “but if he had only” or “why is he so good to her?” What is our definition of good? I am working now on saying “if he does call her and does not cheat or lie to her I still dont’ want him.” I have made my list and even at his best I just feel he is not it. I need someone more connected, more clingy (it can be a good thing) more ready to share their whole life with a woman and not just parts when he feels like it.
Keri it is so hard watching them move on… they do it so quickly. That however also reminds me that he is likely not being choosy. Maybe god does hate me and he has found his soulmate but this guy has gone from his ex of 7 years, to me and then to this new woman one after the other with no alone time. That in my book can’t be healthy.
Being alone feels embarrassing sometimes… I will admit that when he and I spoke I was like of course I am seeing other people because I felt embarrassed to say it. Then I realized I am proud of myself for not feeling the need to rush out, for facing my fears of being alone. I have my moments where I say oh dear god! But then it’s like wait I’m doing this and it’s going to lead to something healthier in the long run. If all you are looking for is a warm body then that’s pretty easy to find… someone who is going to be with you 30 years from now through good and bad takes a lot of compromise, communication, shared values. That is not just around the corner. so I take comfort in that and know what he does not even understand what those words mean!
Your guy might be “nice” to this new woman, affectionate, kind, thoughtful… does not mean they are going to form a lasting bond and friendship that will get them through raising kids, financial problems, and the things that really challenge relationships in life. These guys are all about “fun” and “positive energy.” did any of you women hear that a lot? My guy was all about zen and positive energy in life and avoiding conflict because it was unneccessary. I see him now and want to yell come back down to reality and grow up and pay your bills and stop spending all your money running off to learn to do your next adventure sport.
Maybe he is happy living this vagabond lifestyle…, I think there is more to life. And I think we are living it by tackling some of these issues here.
SuzieQ November 5th, 2008, 6:36 pm
I agree with Finallyoverit. I didn’t leave my EUM because I thought a bad relationship (it had its good parts!) was better than no relationship at all. Before him, I hadn’t had a relationship for 4 years. I am 40 years old, a single mom, and I have no idea where I am going to find someone. The thoughts of sitting home every weekend are terrifying. I mean, i do things with my son and friends, but it isn’t the same as dating. I want to have faith that I will find someone but I really don’t.
Jenn November 5th, 2008, 7:32 pm
Perhaps some Fallback Girls don’t leave first because they’re thinking/rationalizing that the one who wants the relationship the least should leave. In the mind of a Fallback Girl, she “wants” the relationship thinking that he will change. But he does not want the relationship because he outrightly says so or acts like so. Thus, she’s wondering, if he’s the one who wants the relationship less than she does, then he should be the one to leave first. After all, as reasonable (non-manipulative) people, we women would leave first if we weren’t interested in a guy, and we wouldn’t lead him on, right? Hence we expect the guys (including EUMs) to do the same for us. But the problem is that these EUMs are manipulative, egotistical, uncaring, and dishonest!
A righteous person would break it off first if he or she were the least interested party in a relationship. Not assclowns! They want to drag it out for as long as they can because they can continue to use you for their ego strokes or shags. They don’t want us girls to leave because they’re expending virtually no effort to keep around anyway, so they’re thinking, “What’s the harm?” We Fallback Girls give them the free pass to come over for a shag late at night, to spend no time or effort in a real relationship, and these guys don’t even have to lift a finger. They have no morals and they will exploit our “niceness” for as long as they can.
MattGlad November 5th, 2008, 7:44 pm
Lots of great questions. It’s pretty useful to ask a woman why she doesn’t end a relationship - there does seem to be some wiring somewhere that gives you a blind spot and carry on in a relationship that just isn’t working.
I believe that us men (generally) are a lot less savvy when it comes to emotional stuff. I don’t excuse it but accept that as a reality. So women are more likely to pick up on the little clues as to things not being right. Men will eventually get the picture then act dramatically, often running away rather than face all those emotions!!
Times are changing but VERY slowly.
Men need to learn how to feel more, Women how to look after themselves and be selfish - rather than carrying a guy that just isn’t respecting her.
Good Luck with the Book,
Matthew
Astelle November 5th, 2008, 7:51 pm
Jenn, good post. No, he won’t leave, it is the Fallback girl that has to end it. Did you read NML’s post: You will always be the YO YO girl if you stay in contact. It explains it so perfect.
Dazed, stop wondering what he is doing, if he treats her better, if he calls her or not, who cares? Reading your posts, are you a little bit of a control “freak”?
Supernova1973 November 5th, 2008, 8:02 pm
Some women think these men are good enough because they aren’t beating them, cheating, or hanging out at the bar. Wow, as my therapist would say, he really sounds like a keeper, ha, ha.
It is patriarchal world ladies and that means that men like to “keep” things including us. They are more interested in what they have than maintaining a sustaining relationship with a woman, or even most times, with their families. Ego, Ego, Ego, men are way more vulnerable than we are and it is really tough to find a true “strong” man, because under all that huffing and puffing is a mama’s boy.
There is hope though, since I have gone back to college I have been pleasantly surprised by the young men in academia. I have met a couple that seem to understand the world does not revolve around them and seem to have been raised by really good father figures. Too bad they are 14 years younger than me, or maybe not. Cest La Vie ladies and enjoy life every day, it is a gift that should not be squandered on a human being that doesn’t truly CARE for you.
keri November 5th, 2008, 8:18 pm
Dazed.. Friday nites are always the hardest for me.. I plan my therapy sessions every other friday… then I have to make sure I have plans with my friends after that.. Because that’s when I get really depressed.. thinking that he is out with her.. doing something “fun”. Friday nites are the worst.
My EUM was a miserable person.. angry at life and at his circumstances surrounding his health.. and ya know.. His “broken-ness” resonated in me.. I connected with that broken feeling because I felt broken too.. two broken people.. trying to “get by” with each other.. I knew that he would eventually ask me to marry him… we were on the road to that.. living together.. going to Home Depot together.. but I would do all that lonely.. BEGGING for some validation that I was worthy.. asking him to tell me how he felt about me and he would just look in his lap and say “I don’t know”. How sad is that? I would even ask him if he thought I was going to wait around forever waiting for him to tell me how he felt.. he said no. So he knew… he knew I wouldn’t do it forever.. I just thought… well.. like all of you thought.. If I was good enough.. or smart enough.. thin enough.. or not as needy enough.. THEN he would be free to express his feelings. I mean.. I knew he loved me.. with all that he was capable.. I knew he did.. He found it easier to buy me a pair of shoes.. than to hold my hand… that was his love.. just not what I was looking for. I could buy shoes in my sleep but Life is more personal than that.. it’s more.. intimate.. and it should be felt with the heart…I feel.
It took courage for me to leave.. I was attracted to him and lived in this BEAUTIFUL house that we talked about buying.. being “us”.. I would have dinner parties and my friends would see the smiling me… ear to ear me.. because I was in love.. with the dream of he and i.. but inside I was crying…and i pulled off for the most part.. but in leaving I was believing somehow that I deserved better….It sucks. But It’s not REAL.. I’m giving him TOO much power to determine my happiness.. I left because I deserve more. My sadness and longing.. is ME being scared with ME!!! Is you being scared of YOU! I know it seems severe but it’s true!
Just think about it… If you were to do what you had to do… beg.. bribe.. etc.. to get back with him.. picture yourself there.. with him…
WOULD IT BE ANY DIFFERENT??????
Yea.. thought so.
keri November 5th, 2008, 8:26 pm
how bout.. instead of dwelling on what we don’t have.. what we could of had… why dont’ we start writing about what we DO have… What DO you have going for you?? All of you? Tell us.. what’s some things that make you happy… whats some things you look forward to.. who is someone you appreciate..
We need to start to turn this around.. or else we’re going to be here , in this space FOREVER.
I hope this makes sense.. I feel myself being sucked into the “Pit of Despair” (Princess Bride reference)… time to focus on something ELSE!!!
dazedandconfused November 5th, 2008, 8:32 pm
Astelle… I am not sure what your comment about me being a control freak has to do with it. How can you not wonder afterwards if he is treating the woman better? Ya it pisses me off to no end that I was really nice to this guy he walked all over me but then might turn around and be great to another woman because it would go against all that I am reading here and make me have to face that it was 100% my fault.
Astelle I am really quite hurt by your comment… I feel like you are picking on my weak spots when this is supposed to be a forum for acknowledging that we know we are not perfect. All you have done is remind me of more faults and how I led to the demise of my relationship.
dazedandconfused November 5th, 2008, 8:40 pm
Astelle, I do care… I absolutely do. And I would love to stop worrying, stop wondering but I cared for him so much and it just kills me inside that he could be good to her but not to me. If all is true then they have their own issues that prevent them from being good and committed… but if it turns out he can be then it was never to do with that but about me coming on too strong and screwing it all up. I am trying “proove” that this was not all my fault, I will fully admit it’s what I am doing.
If you have advice as to how to stop caring that the person you loved didn’t give enough of a shit about you but can turn aruond the next week and be the man he never could be with you… please tell me how to not worry about that and let it break my heart.
Alysia November 5th, 2008, 8:56 pm
After dating many assclowns and marrying one, I realized YOU have to be the one to leave, YOU have to be the one to realize YOU deserve better. They won’t leave because they may then be perceived as the “bad guy” to the general public. As long as they just treat you horribly until you get fed up and leave, they can perpetuate the myth with other women that all of the women in their past have “left them heartbroken” and “deserted them”. It also allows them to keep you as the yo-yo girl, because he can continue to make you feel guilty for leaving (if you let him) while taking no responsibility for his own actions that led to you leaving.
This is just MY experience, but I have a feeling it is a common scenario.
dazedandconfused November 5th, 2008, 9:01 pm
Ok Astelle I am going to take a different approach. I apologize if my comment seemed at all rude but it did hurt me… it’s hard when a complete stranger picks up on something you are insecure about on a blog comment site
I am a BIG control freak not a little one. I know it comes from my parents who are the same. I know I tried to control my EUM, it’s why I text, call and monitored him probably 24/7. I think it comes from my fear of being abandonned… if I am always alert I will know it’s coming.
So I will reach out here and say what do people suggest? It is so hard to face myself after this because it makes me take on the entire blame for the end of the relationship knowing how hard it must be to be with me… I had no idea I was so transparent until Astelle you were able to just see it here in my post.
Even now you are right I am trying to figure out if he is better to her in case I find out they are together a year from now and then I can be mentally prepared. Why would I care about him a year from now!!! But my OCD tendencies will likely take me to that point.
I really would like some advice on how to not worry how they are treating the women after us. I know that the fact is that so what if he is he was ass as TO ME and that’s all that matters. I guess my question is why? And the only answer that comes to mind is because I was weak, I let him, and I drove him insane with my controlling ways and obsessive communication and constant fear of him leaving. And the reason that I worry about all this is that I wonder what would have been different had I stood up for myself and been strong and confident… could we have worked comes to mind a lot? How do you stop wondering?
keri November 5th, 2008, 9:02 pm
Alysia.. I think you’re DEAD right on that one… He would have never left.. now he gets to call me the bad guy.. (and I’m SURE he does) when I feel I really gave it all I had.. gave him so many “chances” to grab his balls (or go to therapy with me) Right on!
NML November 5th, 2008, 9:11 pm
dazedandconfused - I’m going to intervene at this point as I just noticed the comments coming through and your reaction to Astelle’s comment. The whole fear of abandonment/trying to control things including him/and all of the other behaviour is part and parcel of being 1) a Fallback Girl and 2) involved with a Mr Unavailable. If you *weren’t* these things, he wouldn’t be attractive to you, hence the relationship and these problems wouldn’t have happened, hence there would be nothing to work out. You’re not choosing a ‘normal’ man and treating him this way - you’re choosing a Mr Unavailable because he caters to all of your fears and lets you play out this drama. It couldn’t have worked because the whole thing is screwed up. I suggest you read Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl as there is a whole section on control and there is plenty of discussion about fears and abandonment.
dazedandconfused November 5th, 2008, 9:17 pm
Thanks NML I really appreciate that. Here I think I am working on me and getting better it was just hard to suddenly see someone say “hey this person is controlling” just from my posts.
Loving Annie November 5th, 2008, 11:10 pm
Beacsue I was unwilling to face the whole fantsay I was addicted to, that was such a part of my habit patterns for years, and blindness.
He showed me for years that he wasn’t lobing, caring or sharing and I refused to look at his action and instead focused on the words that would help me stay in my stuck state of denial…
Now I know different. Now I FEEL different. I will not play helpless victim again awaiting HIS decision, rather than choosing to end a bad relationship on my own and end the pain before it gets worse.
cuttingpuppetstrings November 6th, 2008, 12:57 am
Alysia - you are right on the ball with that comment. My EUM is probably going about the same, telling himself that he is brilliant, that he ‘at least’ tried to be friends with me and that I am the ‘bitch’ who cut contact with him. They never stop and wonder WHY we cut contact, WHY we don’t want to be friends with them and HOW difficult it can be for us to move on - all they see is themselves. He probably winks at himself in the mirror every morining and gives himself a pep-talk - “I am great, I am all man!” Phffff!!!!
But what I am scared of is that since I have met a lot of EUM, I am becoming shut-off and an EUW (emotionally unavailable woman). I find myself never trusting men whenever they speak to me. Recently I have had opportunities to go on dates with other men, I have just chose not to, and I have had a guy tell me I am special and I have just told him to shut up because I didn’t trust it. Has this guy really f***ed me up inside my head so much that I am never going to trust another ever again?? I just can’t seem to get my head around the fact that men can have feelings but push them under the carpet so easily - it is crazy!
MattGlad - I take on board when you say “men are a lot less savvy when it comes to emotional stuff.” But is it really that simple??
I really don’t want to become an EUW and chase guys just for an ego massage and never have both feet in the relationship, but I feel that because of this guy I will. I am, for sure, getting on with my life and finishing my degree but right now a relationship, a real one, just seems so far off that I feel I can never trust a man fully ever again … how do I get over this, even if I am almost over him?
Jenn November 6th, 2008, 1:00 am
keri - I also saw the “broken-ness” in him and I have to admit that I was drawn to that and even felt a closer connection to him because of it, because I was partially “broken” myself. Misery loves company and birds of a feather flock together, I guess. His broken-ness reflected mine.
Astelle - Thanks for the reminder! Yes, I just re-read the “Always be a Yo-Yo Girl…” post by NML and it’s one of my favorite. It’s so on-point and describes my EUM to a T. Also, when we girls keep taking them assclowns back, they cease to take us and our threats seriously, like the boy who cries wolf. These assclowns think, “Oh, well, she said that last time, that she’s moving on, but here I am again, shagging her, so surely her words don’t mean a thing.”
Liz November 6th, 2008, 3:04 am
Alysia - your comments are spot on! I have noticed this pattern also.
Cutting Puppet Strings - I can definitely relate - I feel like my last EUM relationship which I ended in sheer disgust about 6 months ago was the “straw that broke the camel’s back” for me. I have had no interest in dating and find myself becoming quite cynical about men in general - especially men in my age category (40s).
I worry about this because I do not want to become a bitter, antisocial old woman. How do you learn to trust again after getting burned so many times?
Liz
brooke November 6th, 2008, 2:48 pm
I read somewhere that worry and guilt are the most useless emotions…though i completely agree with this I cannot let go of both.Guilt because of the mannaer in which i treated myself.I did have an inkling right at the beggining that this man was not going to give me anything that I wanted.As i have written earlier he was extremely selfish right from the beginning…never cared about my emotions…always doing things at his pace.Now I realise that I have to take the entire blame for the way in which he treated me.Human beings are rational and I am guilty of the fact that I did not heed any of these red flags and put up with a whole lot of nonsense…harsh words,accusations,not answering my calls,not replying to my messages,being the first one to patch up after a fight,always glossing over the mistakes that he committed,putting myself down constantly and elevating him to the staus of a superhero..I do not know why i put up with all this without even knowing if he had feelings for me in the first place.I wonder if I was that needy and desperate that I put up with so little…Everything written on this site about fallback women is true..very true…like a fool I used to keep replaying our conversations in my haed over and over again just to convince myself that he really cared for me…i would read his messages over and over again…i feel now that i should have spent my time on something more productive…Yes,I am a lonely woman…but the mistake that i made was to think that somebody else could feel the void within me.That will never happen.Even when we were interacting i used to feel lonely most of the time.Apart from feeling lonely i felt miserable,hurt and humiliated.Our last fight happened about 2 weeks back.Seriously I feel scared to interact with him again…because he has sapped me of whatever little vitality and energy had…In fact now when i think of him i can obly seem to remember his harsh words and our fights..in a way this is good..because i do not feel like calling him or begging him to be friends with me anymore.I will not deny that i miss him because he is very articluate,intelligent….but as was pointed out in one of the articles on this site I do not want to focus too much on the common ground factor because what finally matters is whether he treated me well which he did not…I would like to start life afresh…a like without him…I know that the drama may not be there and i may take a long time to heal but i atleast want to make a start somewhere…
Nilondoner November 6th, 2008, 3:50 pm
I know something about guilt. but of lately it’s another kind of guilt.
I will draw a lot of disagreements but I don’t think that demonising men is the healthy option. I’m certainly not trying to justify the meanness or lack of respect that some of them show.
At the same time though I start looking at my own mistakes with a more honest eye before judging someone else’s. I realized that my clinginess was smothering him. And if you’ve ever been on the other side… well being smothered is not nice. Being pressured in feeling something that you’re not ready to feel is not nice. it’s not nice feeling completely responsible for the happiness of another person. it’s not nice feeling that without you that person is spineless. And it’s not nice being with someone that spiritually goes “love me love me, define me, why don’t you love me?, eh eh, why why eh why?”. Lots of women, including me, have done that. and being on the other side sucks. just as being on this side sucks. I don’t think we do it out of selflessness, because we are sooo very nice and loving and caring, it’s a selfish behaviour, it’s a controlling and manipulative behaviour and no healthy man react well to this, not even a emotionally available man. Some of them freak out and are mean, disappear and start acting like “assclowns” even if they weren’t to begin with.
I’m thinking about what I’ve put my ex through and I’m sorry. he’s not perfect but I’ve pushed him and pushed him and pressured him and cornered him and I’m a bit ashamed of myself. I apologised to him (without laying myself at his feet) because it was the right thing to do. He apologised for what he did to me.
I’m learning now that changing behaviour doesn’t mean campaigning to advertise what a great girlfriend I can be, but showing respect for myself and for them. They are not responsible for my father not being there for me and why should they be. and if then they still behave in a disrespectful way, well I lose them but retain my dignity and my sense of self.
I hope it’s not too confusing.
FinallyOverIt November 6th, 2008, 4:20 pm
True, they are not responsible for our fathers not being there, and they are not responsible for the fact that we are slightly messed up and pick the wrong men. But, WE are responsible for our choices and our behavior in the relationships we choose to cultivate–even if it is with an EUM. I believe we are drawn to these men because they reflect the negative characteristics we possess–the major one being emotional unavailability. I’m starting to think that until we can say that we are truly “emotionally available” ourselves, we are probably going to continue to be drawn to EUMs. What I am doing right now is:
1. Continuing to maintain NO CONTACT with my ex-EUM
2. Going to counseling and being completely truthful about all of the
events of my life that have brought me to this point, and wanting
to change my relationship patterns
3. Not beating myself up about my relationship choices in the past,
and forgiving myself in order to move on
4. Focusing on ME, and learning to love myself by taking up new
hobbies, reading a good book, walking my dog every day, etc.
5. Changing “old tapes” that play in my head that tell me I am not worth it, not loved, etc., to “new tapes” that tell me I am a wonderful
person, worthy of love, and I deserve the best life has to offer.
keri November 6th, 2008, 4:33 pm
Finally Over it.. Brooke and Nilondoner.. I think ALL your comments are wonderful.. and RIGHT ON!!! I think all 3 of your comments capture EVERYTHING that we are undertaking.
Kim2 November 6th, 2008, 4:33 pm
The process we are all going through here is a difficult lesson. A lesson I have repeated several times but this is the last. It has been painful.
A genuine good man will not play a woman. So no matter how much you worry that you did something wrong or you’re somehow not good enough — the kind of man we are dealing with here is a jerk. He is a user. He has no problem taking your gifts of time and love with no intention of reciprocating. He just doesn’t care about much more than satisfying himself. A good man will not do that to you.
My role in this type of relationship has evaded me until recently. With the help of an astrologer (yes.. so don’t laugh) I finally realized that I entered into and agonized over EUMs because I am looking for who I am through them. I want the relationship to validate ME. To show me I am good enough, attractive enough, desireable. In search of that validation I put a lot of effort into making him happy and very little towards what made me happy. I focused on the guy and what he wanted and needed and ignored what I wanted and needed. Each time I reached a point of frustration, hurt and anger that I had to walk away. I was filled with those bad feelings and stewed about why he’d treat me bad when I was so good to him. I overanalyzed everything looking for signs he loved me… BUT I wasn’t good to me.
When I think about the kind of man and relationship I want the EUM was never it anyway. I was trying to win love the only way I knew how - by being nice, pleasant, a good girl. I never wanted to come off as a bitch and I thought making any demands would be bitchy. I confused getting what I wanted and needed with being a bitch.
From now it willl be “I would like…” and when I am treated rudely I will take care of myself and not ignore it or paper over it. I will not be afraid to say “I don’t like…”
Don’t let these EUMs play you. That is what they are doing. They have done it to other women and they will do it again. If he cared about you and was a real friend he would not hurt you. He would not disappear or avoid you. A good man WANTS you to be happy. He will want to spend time with you and it doesn’t matter if you like sappy old movies because he will like you enough to hang out and watch them with you.
If you find yourself putting more effort into pleasing some jerk before being happy for yourself put the brakes on pronto. This behavior is fear driven. It’s hard to look in that dark closet but you won’t be able to change until you do. You know you want the real deal… you want a real relationship with a man that turns you on and cares about you and your feelings. You want the total package. Stop trying to win over these shitty guys and take care of yourself. If you are putting effort into ‘winning’ him over - you’re doomed already. Each of us is worthy of respect so if some guy is jerking your chain yank it right out of his hands. It hurts like hell to see him with the next woman but people don’t change that easily and he’ll probably play her too. See him as the jerk he is - not a prize. Keep reminding yourself that you want the real thing and there is no reason you shouldn’t have it with the right man. The right one won’t cause you this much pain.
Kim2 November 6th, 2008, 4:36 pm
… doesn’t mean campaigning to advertise what a great girlfriend I can be, but showing respect for myself and for them.
Nilondoner - so true.
REPEAT REPEAT REPEAT
Nilondoner November 6th, 2008, 4:41 pm
FinallyOverIt: we keep making this black/white distinction between “too nice” guys and assholes. But putting extremes on one side, I believe that the majority of guys are something in between. Can we not consider that maybe sometimes it’s our behaviour that get the worst out of them?
i’m not trying to demonise women as I’m not trying to demonise men. We are all looking for happiness, but I do believe that again extremes aside there are no right or wrong men just people trying to be happy and mighty scared of being hurt and behaving in stupid ways to defend themselves and avoid being hurt.
We always talk about disappearing acts, is that so much worse than nagging someone until they are sick, or phoning someone 10 times a day, reading their messages or their emails, or manipulating someone with our behaviour etc? Do men behave that way because women behave this way or the opposite?
You are right, we should all focus more on ourselves without beating ourselves up for past relationships but we should learn from the past not just in terms of the type of men we pick but also in terms of the way we behaved within the past relationships.
The posts I found the most usefuls since I started reading this blog are without a doubt “the drama reduction series”.
Kim2 November 6th, 2008, 4:48 pm
If a gal is phoning/texting 10x a day, etc. yes I can see why the guy would turn cold but some guys really are assholes. No gray area there at all. If he has other women and you feel like you are trying to find your way around in the dark with only a little help from him once in awhile - he’s an ass. Turn the lights on and get out.
keri November 6th, 2008, 4:53 pm
Nilondoner… TOTALLY agree. We really are just doing the best job that we can.. and I know I’ve acted like an ASS to my EUM just to get a response out of him… do I? nope.. he remains steady with NC of me. Which just fuels my fire and then I do something even more unbelievable.. I’m pretty weirdly dissapointed in myself. I was the one that left because I wanted more…. why am I doing this.. to him and to myself??? Yes he acted like a jerk at times.. but I just don’t think he has the capacity to be self aware.. and express vulnerability… so he just did what he knew to do.. right, wrong or indifferent..
Same with me.. I’m NO angel.. but I still want the benefit of the doubt that i”m not some raging bitch on a revenge mission.. I’m just sad and disenchanted and STARVING for love.. which I know starts with me…
Dazedandconfused November 6th, 2008, 6:00 pm
Nilondoner… I have gone through the apology phase as well and it’s beat me up. I said some awful things to my EUM at the end, and I’ve even started wondering if he was an EUM.
I relive the relationship over and over… at the beginning he was totally in to me, talked about living together, etc. So I jumped right in, called all the time, made myself totally available. He used to say it was moving too quickly for him. The thing is, then there were the disappearances… which led to more texts and more calls because I was totally confused by the mixed messages. And the disappearances usually led to lies about where he was.
What did you EUM do that he apologized for. Mine acknowledges “mistakes” but that’s it. He also made a big deal of breaking up with me to get over his ex, and how he still wanted to be with me, but has a new g/f just like that. So I got extremely angry. I can’t help but wonder now if I was smothering, or if he started the disappearances and odd behaviour which led me to start keeping tabs on him, etc.
I recognize that either way I was not ready for a healthy relationship, but some days I wish for a second chance with this person wondering if I had been “healthy” and taken things slowly if it would have been different. In the end I try and tell myself that if this was a good person he would have simply articulated the need to slow down as opposed to saying “no I really want to be with you” and then running off for days and breaking up with me under false pretenses. When we have spoken I have tried to address it and he simply says he has no desire to relive our relationship ever again despite saying I was the most amazing woman he had ever met and would come back for me.
I just carry that guilt now, realizing my behaviour when he broke up with me was irrational, eratic, emotional, and caused me to smother him more.
ReginaToxicodendronDiversilobum November 6th, 2008, 6:31 pm
This has been a most inspiring thread. I am 13 days into NC and I never know when I am going to burst into tears. My EUM and I parted on mutual agreement. We were both reading “Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl,” how about that?
However, I had broken up with him in my head once a month (hee hee) for nearly two years. We had been together for six years and about year three I started asking for more than a dating relationship, living together, more than two or three nights a week spent together. That is when he started to blow cold.
I found this site eventually and got “Mr. Unavailable,” and got the scales off my eyes.
I don’t know if it will help, but here is how I find some compassion, and therefor forgiveness, for both EUM and yourself, Miss EUW. Emotional Unavailability is the *result of one or more emotional injuries.* We do this stuff, cause ourselves and other pain, because we have been injured. How could you blame somebody for being a bit unreasonable, grumpy or angry from the pain of a broke leg they got in a car wreck? We don’t have any problem feeling compassion and sympathy for someone who has had a painful physical injury, and it’s a lot easier to recognize, because they have a cast on their leg.
Think of the emotionally unavailable person in the same light. They have been injured and are in pain, and are not able to take care of themself or anybody else. They will be selfish for awhile until they are healed.
Unlike a broken leg, however, the injuries of an emotional trauma or injury can go untreated and unhealed for a very long time. Many people can hide these hurts from themselves and others, and seem “functional” on the outside. It might take a heartbreak, like breaking up with you, dear Fallback Girl, for Mr. Unavailable to get the courage to take care of those injuries so that he can become available to his next partner. Or he can choose, as so many of us have seen from each other here, to go out and get another Band-Aid Girl to superficially cover the wound so he doesn’t have to look at it.
That is exactly what my EUM used me for. I was the Band-Aid Girl for his emotional injuries, including: Divorce, Stillbirth, Economic Ruin (a result of the divorce), Infidelity, Abandonment and Alchoholic EUM Father. How could anybody who had sustained those injuries fully trust another woman??? So I got held at arms length, essentially I had to suffer those injuries on his behalf and be held accountable for what I did not break.
I want to point out that emotional injury can come from thing other than being in a relationship with an EUM, or Daddy issues. I sustained PTSD type injuries from being a hard-core environmental activist in my 20’s and 30’s. Those injuries led me to self-deceive into a business relationship with an alcoholic narcissist bully (female) who mentally and emotionally battered me for seven years. I believe that that is what led me into relationships with EUM’s.
I recently struck up a friendship with a cute little lesbian woman, who seemed to be flirting with me. We seem to connect so well (platonically), over poetry and writing. Guess what? She is way EU, from the most extreme emotional injury I can ever imagine!!! Her mother committed suicide in an especially horrendous manner when she was six years old. At age 30, she is just beginning to try to bring this up and deal with it. None of her family ever talked about it or got help of any kind.
Is it any coincidence that I am finding myself in a friendship with this woman? I am almost certain that, no matter how “connected” I feel for her, I am in no position to be supportive to somebody with this sort of wounding. I have to “me first” for awhile.
Anybody else find their EU issues playing out in platonic friendships???
Caroline November 6th, 2008, 7:33 pm
Good god ladies you all seem like you are living with me ,at this moment I am with an assclown whom I hope I will get rid off soon thanks to your inspiring posting that will give me courage to stand up for myself
cuttingpuppetstrings November 6th, 2008, 7:56 pm
ReginaToxicodendronDiversilobum - Attracting other EU people? … Other than the fact that the only men I seem to attract are already attached?! No(!) …
The majority of the men that have been and gone in my life (85% or more!) seem attracted to me, flirt with me and has even tried it on with me, but they were always, always, always with someone else!
You raise an interesting point, along with NML multiple posts about loving yourself, when you say that because we are all EU we are drawn together - we flock together … because they know they cannot be with me they are EU, they just probably don’t know it, just like I didn’t know it. They recognise something familiar and it draws them in like a magnet - seemily innocent, until they try it on!
I admit that the daddy issue might come into play. Even though he was a part of my childhood, the relationship was never consistant. Whilst he was working I would be at home, whilst he was at home I was at school. And the few times I did spend with him was on his day off or watching a random movie. I would probably spend days not seeing him due to this routine. I never doubt the love my father has for me as he would do anything for me but by never being a big part of my life I quite possibly, subconsciously, expect future partners to act the same: blow hot and cold …
Along with that there is still that trust issue - how can you trust men to not leave you hanging?
Being emotionally unavailable - does it lead to neverending story of trust issues??
cuttingpuppetstrings November 6th, 2008, 8:36 pm
Is it actually possible to be happy with yourself, enjoy your own single company, plan for the future and understand that you DO deserve better than what you’ve had but yet STILL become an EUW? (eww…)
FinallyOverIt November 6th, 2008, 8:38 pm
I have ended friendships that have been one-sided, meaning I would put much more into the friendship than they would. I was always there to listen to them, help them out with problems, etc., but I didn’t get the same back from them. What I am figuring out now is that I probably didn’t ask for the same back–maybe I didn’t think I deserved it….? So, I do think that emotionally unavailable people are drawn to those that validate their negative opinion of themselves, and that definitely would include platonic friendships. My ex-EUM was my friend, also, but he was never able to reciprocate by truly being a friend to me–according to my definition of friendship. As far as the “daddy issue”, that can be part of the equation, but it can also be anything in our lives that has given us the consistent message that we are unlovable. I do believe there is hope, though. I don’t think we are all destined to be unhappy and alone our entire life. There is unhappiness and pain in all types of relationships–even for those who don’t have emotionally unavailable issues. All relationships can be complicated. But I also firmly believe in the power of love. That includes loving yourself, because as corny as it sounds, until we learn to love ourselves, we cannot truly and honestly love anyone else.
Alysia November 6th, 2008, 9:48 pm
Ahhh… it really is nice to be able to communicate with other women who understand what you are going through… Thanks so much for this website Natalie. I truly felt I was the “crazy bitch” I was referred to as. If any of you are still on the fence about leaving your EUM… JUST DO IT. It will never get any better or easier, and when you leave, things will be WAY worse for awhile, but they end up so much better than you could have ever dreamed. I ADORE my drama free relationship and life now. It took awhile to get used to and I tried to create drama with my current boyfriend for quite awhile because it felt so much more natural… but now my life is way better than I could have imagined.
P.S. Congrats on baby #2. Aren’t they the most wonderful thing you could ever imagine.
Noelle November 6th, 2008, 9:53 pm
I have been reading posts on this site for the last month now, the last time that my EUM and I broke up, which only last for about a week. We have done this 4 times now. He tells me he loves me BUT is trying to figure it out. The first time he broke up with me was a week before Christmas last year (the week of my bday), didn’t even have the balls to tell me, I caught him in a lie about being out of town when he was really home! Then it was I should feel more but don’t, can’t understand why! He has always said there is something wrong with him, that he doesn’t know why I’m with him, that he can’t understand why I would want him. That he can’t understand why he can’t feel more and to top it off….I love you but I don’t know how to handle loving someone. I kept thinking, if I just love him more, if I just don’t push, if I just show him what a real loving giving relationship can be like. He was married for 17 years and he admitted that in the end, they didn’t respect each other. His next big relationship of 6 months was to a married woman with a husband in jail who kept saying she would get a divorce but when her hubby got let out, when back to him. Of course he was devistated and I come along 3 months later after that. He has told me he was amazed at what he thought he was in love with….I let that be an excuse as in, he is just scared. Whatever! And now, even after I’ve confronted him and called him out saying I know you love me, I know you care, but I don’t think you love me the way a man should love a woman, are in love with me, I can’t stay away. The NCR doesn’t work for me at all. After reading all this and saying to myself, I have no future with this man, he may really be incapbable…after 17 months and a lot of self blame, here I am….What the heck is it going to take? If someone says I love you but….you should run, right? Why can’t I? Now, I see a pattern in all the relationships I’ve had and of course, if I left him now, I would get all the blame…he is about to lose a job he has had for 20 years, can’t move out of state because of kids and sure, he would say, well, I knew I was worthless…she left me because I’m out a job or whatever..NONE of the blame would be on the fact that he didn’t really love me! I’ve heard the its not fair to you because I can’t commit crap…I’ve heard it all and yet, because like the other posts, I’d rather be in a bad relationship than nothing…here I sit. BUT, I check this site daily, I read the posts and at least I’m recongnizing my sickness and craving theapry more each day!
Nilondoner November 7th, 2008, 10:25 am
Dazedandconfused: I don’t like calling my ex “emotionally unavailable”. because I don’t think he is. He’s more “emotionally constipated”. And he’s not an a***hole either. I don’t think I’m being soft. During our four years together I said horrible things and he said horrible things and I believe we were as bad as each other. So why should I put all the blame on him?
When we first got together he was very young (23) and inexperienced. Although he liked me very much he started doubting if he wasn’t too much too soon but he stuck by me. I suffered because I could feel that his heart wasn’t in it completely, he never mistreated me but I wasn’t his top priorities as he was mine. And that’s what he apologised for. For making me feel second best. I appreciated the fact that he didn’t apologised in order to get me back and that’s why I think his apologies were sincere. Since then he behaved like the best of friends: helping me out through difficult times at work and at home, with friends and even with a new guy I briefly dated. Without asking for anything else or anything more. Just to make up for being unattentive for so long.
I’m not easy to live with. if he’s emotionally costipated, i’ve got the opposite problem. Just as bad. So I apologised for dumping the whole definition of my self-worth on him, for dumping the entire responsibility of my happiness on him . Now I realized how terrible and selfish that was. I wouldn’t want anyone to do it with me, so why should I be allowed to do it with him?
Apologising to him and doing it for myself (and not to get anything in return) made me feel better and allowed me a fresh clean start and wiped away the guilt. Apologising to him (and you don’t necessarily need HIM in front of you to do that) allowed me to forgive myself.
Dazedandconfused November 7th, 2008, 1:38 pm
Nilondoner… your story is exactly like my ex before my EUM. Thanks for telling me that story it helps. My ex previously was only 21 when I met him and he has since apologized as well.
I think he was just young. The lastest one was quite a bit older and he was just mean
Thanks for sharing it makes me feel better about some of my outbursts towards the latest ones. He is any but nice to me, and has offered zero friendship since it’s been over even when I ended up in hospital with health problems at the end he said “I wish you were better so we could go hang out.” LOL that was it!
It’s nice to seek forgiveness. I did this with my EUM and he acted like he had done nothing wrong. I realize now I am trying to get validation… to take back some of my bad behaviour but only I can do that.
Dazedandconfused November 7th, 2008, 1:44 pm
Noelle… a relationship takes 2 people. With my EUM he left me and I made a scene. I acted like a child, I was immature, I called, left angry messages and emails about his bad behaviour. Now all that I said was factual about things he had done to me, but all I ended up doing was making it easier on him for leaving me and for him to say “she’s crazy good thing I left.” But part of our control issues and our seeking validation is that we don’t want to leave because we don’t want to give up on all we have invested or just give up period because we can’t stand that this person does not want us.
You cannot be “blamed” for seeking out a relationship you are looking for. That is living your life and making choices for you. If you want take the time to tell him exactly why you are leaving, that you would like to support him, it doesn’t have to do with his job or him being a “loser” as he may think of himself but that it was to do with you not getting support in return that you offer him. AND these men often leave us because we are insecure and have self esteem issues… so we should certainly be able to leave them. if they cannot support themselves emotionally they are not going to support us that’s for sure.
Also, by investing yourself in his issues you are only failing to address your own self esteem issues, which do exist or you would not be with this man. There is no blame in leaving someone who is not giving you what you want… I would be more concerned that if you stay you will only resent him. My break up ended so badly because once he left me I was in a rage over my having bent over backwards only to get left and I attempted to throw my kindness in his face. I only had myself to blame for having stayed and not left on those nights where I caught him lying, cheating, etc. That will be when you really blame yourself.
Noelle November 7th, 2008, 5:52 pm
Thank you dazedand confused. I am so flippin mad at him today. But its my own fault because I do everything for him. i job search, help create resumes, check flight times on and on. I told him during our last break up that I felt like a personal assistant adn F&^% buddy and not a girlfriend. Yesterday was can you check this and that and do this and that via text and email because he is out of town. FInally last night he text are you home and my response was yes and what do you need? That pissed him off..I mean, dang! You are very right about what you said and I’ve done the same thing. “How can you not WANT me when I do everything for you and am so sweet”…I even sent him an e-card this week to make him feel better and his response was “Oh, that was so sweet, thanks” How much more of a doormat can I be? Why I can’t just tell him to take a flying leap is beyond me! I feel like a total idiot! I am really going to try and implement the “get out plan” and make it stick this time. Thanks for your posts because coming here daily and reading does help!
Kim2 November 7th, 2008, 6:00 pm
I need help today…. what do you do when you haven’t seen him in awhile and you start to miss him? You start wondering if he’s different now and if you tried again would things work out… what do you do then?
Dazedandconfused November 7th, 2008, 6:11 pm
Kim2… first you are normal for feeling this. I definitely have gone through this thinking “now that I know what was wrong with me I can go back to him and tell him i won’t text 20 times a day to see where he is and I will be confident and then he will not lie and avoid me all the time.” Now as an outsider how does that sound to you?
I will offer two suggestions: 1) If in your heart of hearts you are emotionally fearless and think it could work write him a letter saying this is why you think it could work again BUT be prepared for no response or something really mean.
2) Why would you think he has changed? Look at all the work you are doing on yourself do you think he has gone off figured out what’s wrong with him and put hours into working on himself? Part of our problem is that we are too in touch with our emotions BUT it makes us more likely candidates for fixing ourselves. If you are an emotionally out of touch person, it’s unlikely that you are going to get in touch with them first of all and then all of a sudden feel like facing them.
Read up on “avoidant attachment” this tends to be what these men are about. And reading about it also helps you to know that chasing them further only makes them more scared and more likely to lash out at you. I learned this the hard way and far too late.
And I find what also helps is making a concrete list about this person which includes negative aspects about them that are not related to hwo they treated you. Why? Because I am willing to acknowledge that some of his bad behaviour was at least partially triggered by mine so I say o.k… “what if he were the perfect boyfriend would I still want him then?’ Hmmm he didn’t pay his bills… and he seems to change jobs a lot… of their poor treatment of us is related to greater issues that cause generally poor behaviour in their treatment of themselves.
Could you see this man really sticking with you during the tough times like financial crises or having kids? My EUM wants children so badly and then I realized he has no concept of what that means. I could nto depend on this man to make our mortgage payments, or get the kids to practice because he would say “I am going hiking, running, sky diving… can’t the kids do that?”
So try and be honest about this man is before sacrificing yourself and telling yourself you really really want to risk getting this man back. Part of “anxious attachment behaviour” if you read up on specifically says you “idealize your partner” you remember them like an addiction, your body almost yearns for them like this ache in your chest (every quit smoking?)… same feeling.
Some days I break down and think “but I loved him” and then I laugh and say wait…. I never told him that when we were together or felt like it. The fear and pain caused by abandonment is what creates that ache in my chest that I somehow think is love… it’s the same feeling I have when I go 3 days without a cigarette
keri November 7th, 2008, 6:14 pm
Kim 2…. you HOLD TIGHT.. DO NOT CONTACT HIM as Hard as you can.. go out with a girlfriend.. take a walk.. get out and get some exercise… do something that makes you laugh… seriously.. we ALL have those days.. ALL OF US.. just have to “hunker down” and know that the storm will pass…
Dazedandconfused November 7th, 2008, 6:15 pm
Noelle…. laughing to myself here… not making fun of you but remembering when my ex said hey when you are reading the paper today let me know what’s going on with such and such… to which i said “why don’t you read it yourself” and then 30 minutes later provided him with a synopsis of what I had read. Haha… WOW I see myself as so pathetic when looking back.
After a fight caused by him disappearing I used to also bake for him to try and ease the conflict. Oh dear god this is embarassing.
Kim2 November 7th, 2008, 6:42 pm
I won’t contact him. Too much pride for that. Just feeling lonely today and wondering if he ever missed me.
Noelle November 7th, 2008, 7:33 pm
Kim2..I have had so many of those days and even with him wonder the same thing. But you are doing good with the NCR so keep it up.
Noelle November 7th, 2008, 7:46 pm
Kim2…After going back and re-reading posts, let me tell you first hand that their behavior does not change. This last time we are back together (5th) breakup! Our breakups only lasted a week, no more than that but this one, after a week he wanted to see me. We spent the day together and I felt at first that we had a really good talk. He told me that he understood my insecurties etc. He has said “I know its not fair to you” meaning leaving me in relationship limbo while he figures out what is love for me is and now, after three weeks of being back together for whatever that means (because we have never really had the discussion) we just went back to spending all our time with each other, I can tell you that its the same ole thing! He never really blew hot to get me back either. But, its just the same behavior as before and now that I see it clearly (because of this site) and recognize it, I am even more mad at myself for being sucked back in. One night he said to me “I love you” but I’m trying to figure it out. My response was I don’t think you are in love with me and he said “but we keep getting back together”…..That statement hit me like a ton of bricks because that was my old thinking…there must be a reason for it so I kept going back. There is a reason, I’m not ready to work on me yet. Whatever you do, stay strong because I’m telling you..what you think you miss is not really what it appears to be. I am seeing that now.
Kim2 November 8th, 2008, 1:33 am
Thank you everyone. I don’t understand why this hurts me. Well… maybe I do understand. I want his approval. I want to be wanted. His sexual energy is what attracted me to him in the first place. But he was a butthead to me. Hot and cold… hot and cold. I was always confused and nervous. His behavior made it worse. Some days he would see me at the local pub and act like he didn’t know me when just a few nights before I had spent the night at his house! That hurt but instead of being mad I wondered what was wrong. What did I do wrong? Was he interested in someone else? I would see him talking to some woman and wonder if he was trying to take her home. He never did that I saw but I didn’t know what to make of it. I would leave him alone - no calling or anything - and in a few days he’d get in touch with me. Why are you avoiding me? Why have you been so quiet? Like I imagined him ignoring me. Gah…..!!! When he was on it was so much fun and there were never any fights or outright meanness. But his on/off behavior put me in a spin. I couldn’t and still can’t understand it. We are both in our 40s and too old to play games - or so I thought. I wanted to have fun… enjoy our days off together. There aren’t a lot of single men here to pick from. The guys my age that are single are kind of different. The best