I have a few rules for myself that keep me out of a lot of trouble, even though some days my last nerve is being worn down and I want to let rip:
Even though it’s felt like I have to tape my fingers together at times, I don’t reply in haste (or even at all) to conflict filled emails. Basically, I never reply with my first heated response and distract myself in something else.
I never respond to any form of conflict via text, end of.
I don’t put in writing or say online anything that I’m not prepared to say to someone’s face and this forces me to consider what I do write or say very carefully.
I share my little rules for myself because many of the people I hear from who are struggling with unhealthy relationships or with breaking unhealthy habits have issues around dealing with conflict and criticism, and think nothing of arguing or even telling someone about themselves via text or email. In fact, I’ve even seen arguments take place over tweets and status updates on Facebook but that’s a whole other subject in itself! Why are texts and email a very tempting prospect for conflict?
Because they don’t feel as vulnerable as ‘conflict conflict’, you know where you have to get on the phone and you say something and then they respond, or where you see one another face-to-face. It’s lazy, ‘safe’ ‘communication’.
There’s no real discussion, there’s no full-on arguing, there’s no dealing with potential criticism as you express your feelings and in the immediacy of pressing send, you can feel like you’re on a high that doesn’t take long to disappear. It’s like the ‘perfect’ yet so not perfect way of avoiding conflict in the way that you fear it.
With texts and emails, you’re running the show. It’s one-sided and everything can be said without interruption/criticism or having to see the other person’s reaction, and in those moments, you can forget to keep it real and human. You only have to read the comments section of some news sites to see how people lose the run of themselves when they don’t feel like social norms apply or that they’re going to be interrupted or experience real consequences.
Arguing or telling someone about themselves via text and email is actually a form of passive aggressive and at times aggressive behaviour.
In ‘olden times’, you’d have to go and see the person or pick up the phone, or yes, write a letter. The tricky thing with the latter is that there’s a delayed response – you’ve got to stick it in the post box, they’ve got to receive it and then they may or may not write their reply.
Texts and emails are low effort, can be sent instantly (I know some of you even track to see when they’ve been opened!) and if the other person wants to respond or even go toe-to-toe with you, they can do so immediately.
The instant send and reply is a problem in itself because you would hope that if you had to put pen to paper, get a stamp, stick the letter in the postbox, that you’d consider your actions very carefully. When people share their stories with me about their text and email debacles, there’s a lack of self-control and an element of seeking attention, validation, and instant gratification – it’s like relationship crack that keeps you engaged in the unhealthy dynamic.
Arguing via text and email can give you a sense of control over a person and a situation where you might not feel that you have any.
I’m all too familiar with wanting to be ‘right’ and to have the last word and in relationships or situations where we feel powerless or that someone has done us over and we think they might be getting away with it, sending texts and emails can seem like the ‘easy’ solution, especially if we’re actually scared of having to say it to their face or over the phone.
When you’ve been a people pleaser and played doormat while suppressing your needs, wishes, expectations and your true opinions including where you feel angry or hurt, you can end up doing a couple of things:
- Using texts and emails to try to assert yourself and appeal to the other person or to express your anger without having to truly assert yourself, which may include delaying raising or dealing with conflict until they’re out of sight and then sending a text/email.
- You simmer and simmer away and then you erupt. It’s also likely that because you erupt, you end up feeling guilty for erupting and then invalidate what are likely to be very valid reasons for being pissed off.
Texts and emails tend to be read in the way that we think they have been written or the way that we’d like them to sound, which is why so many people are in fantasy relationships based on seeing too much meaning in texts and emails from someone with whom they’ve had very little human-to-human contact.
Words can dress up hot air and package bullshit as roses but on the flip side, when sent in haste without respect, due consideration and used to express anger and opinions about a person, words can look and sound very offensive.
Tone is very open to interpretation and heated texts and arguments can be very intimidating. They can also undermine your credibility because in the wrong hands, the person who actually may very well be in the wrong will seize upon what you send and use it to legitimise their reasons for their shady behaviour. They’re also likely to think that this is all part of a game and that you’re just not that serious about a relationship or finding a resolution.
Conflict is a natural part of life and unavoidable. Our relationships romantic and otherwise evolve and progress out of learning to interact with one another and to navigate the trickier situations.
I still do not like conflict. Sure who does except for the drama seekers of this world that would have a fight with a paper bag? Conflict used to terrify me due to the associations I had with it from childhood. Conflict to me meant that people don’t like you or that the relationship is over or that I was disapproved of or that the person was an asshole. None of these things are true.
Conflict is what arises from misunderstandings and conflicts in opinions and yes, sometimes in values. Conflict is also what needs to happen when someone is creepy creeping or tap-dancing all over your boundaries.
Just like when you stick with a primarily email/text relationship and somehow expect it to turn into a full-blown relationship in spite of minimal face-to-face and interacting, how are you going to be able to learn how to work through conflict if you hide behind your fingers?
If someone sends you a text / email with the potential for conflict, be the bigger person and pick up the phone or respond asking to meet or to arrange a time to speak. Yes they might not respond but the person who is only going to do conflict on their terms where they keep at a distance isn’t really going to be going anywhere fast with you.
If you truly like, love, or respect someone, show how much you value the relationship by raising any issues over the phone or face-to-face. Yes it won’t be ‘easy’ but if you’re not prepared to step up for you or to truly attempt to address the situation in a manner that respects both you and the other party, it’s a code red alert.
A major bonus of avoiding conflict by text and email and stepping up and having the tricky conversations is that you’ll flush Future Fakers and other shady folk out of your life very quickly.
I’ve also found that conflict is very rarely as big as we imagine it to be, which is probably all the more reason why we shouldn’t engage in these one-way arguments where our ego’s, imaginations and fingers run wild!
Your thoughts?
About the Author:
Natalie Lue is the founder and writer of Baggage Reclaim and author of the books Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship and more. Learn more about her here and you can also follow her on Facebook and Twitter - @baggagereclaim .
Natalie (NML) – who has written 1083 posts on Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue.
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Sadder But Wiser
“I have another viewpoint on this. It was really important to me to have a final say with my ex as a way of honoring and caring for myself. I simply would not and could not let his behavior pass without comment. It had to be said and put out for ‘real’ into the universe – not a pretend letter, not imagining a final conversation, not role playing – I had to do it for real. This approach worked for me because I have always let things pass in my life, let other people treat me badly and I always pretended it was ok, didn’t bother me, wasn’t important, etc. I found this to be ultimately self-destructive and I vowed I would never do it again. For some people, going silent and never saying a word is the most empowering thing – but for others like me, it can be a very important and necessary way of standing up for oneself.”
I agree with you 100% on everything that you just wrote.
Gina, I’m glad to hear this worked for you as well! And I totally understand those who find it’s best for their dignity and well-being to never have or need a “final say”. The bottom line is to figure out what is the best way to take care of and HONOR OURSELVES in these situations, and then follow that course. Good for you!
I once gave my E-mail (not phone #) to a man who was in the same field as I. It was to offer professkonal support only as he was new to the field and was struggling. Well, he E-mailed at lemgth his “woe is me” tale and I replied with support and helpful tips. He replied with more “woe is me” as if he didn’t receive my E-mail. I replied advising him to go back and read what I had already written. Hecontinued to send these E-mails as if I were his Online journal. I had had enough and told him that it was obvious he wasn’t reading my responses so I told him to stop E-mailing me. He didn’t stop, continued on &.I let his E-mails go to junk folder.
That was about 5 years ago. I ztill get E-mails from him & I made mistake of opening a couple. They’ve gotten really weird. They’re written as if he’s a spurned lover & addresses me as “My Darling”. Before I moved I printed them out as evidence in case he was a stalker (saw him in public a few fimes & he said “hi” as if he were spurned lover).
I don’t know…sometimes E-mail is the way to go…
(sorry for typos, doing this by phone & phone won’t let me jump where I need to to make corrections.)
Kayakerkathy,
What a douchebaggy idiot. And the whole condom thing: “when your’re ready.” What a creepster. I bet he thinks he’s one of those real sensitive types like my ex did. About as sensitive as a bag of nails. FLUSH. (My analogies almost never make sense. But I try.)
Jennifer T. Please don’t lower yourself and possibly embarrass yourself (especially if you lose your temper and use fowl language) by saying anything further. You are NOT BEING PASSIVE. You just have more important things to concern yourself about than him. Walk away like the strong woman you are capable of being with your head up high. These bozos will make you drag your own self down just as they have done. NO! You are better than that. If you temper your anger by never engaging with him again – the best revenge- you will get to a point that you won’t feel anything when you do have the misfortune to run into him. It’s funny now but the MM was actually driving by my apartment complex on night, and as fate would have it I came out of my apartment at that very moment to go to the laundry room. I was walking rapidly since it was raining. He called out my name, as I hadn’t even seen him. I came over to the car. Now, I had spent considerable time worrying about how I would conduct myself the first time I saw him after giving him the boot. I said a very unemotional “Hello”. He wanted to make small talk, and he reached up on his dashboard and was handing me a CD of mine that he still had. I said, “Oh. Keep it. I’ve bought another one,” as I started to move away from the car. It was true. His face and attitude was priceless and he said “You DID?”. I had blocked his pitiful attempt to reel me back in and rendered him speechless as I went on my way to continue my mission to the laundry room. I cannot explain how victorious I felt. And, seeing him didn’t even affect me because I had truly gotten him out of my system. It took months of BR, therapy, loads of self-help reading materials, and most of all my determination. I had believed it was impossible, but I did it. I took control, and I sure as hell was not going to relinquish it just because he unexpectedly popped up in my space. You can do the same thing by not allowing your anger to lead you to do something you might regret because you’ve let YOURSELF down, once again. Good luck and lots of hugs, Tink.
Tink
You are right. You are so right. If I blow up, he will know I am still emotionally invested. My goal is to not be emotionally invested in this crackerjack. I want to be neutral. I am getting there. It goes in fits and starts, but man am I trying. Thanks.
I dumped my EU/Assclown MM via email only because I was afraid if I talked to him in person I would start crying and I would fall for his lies again.He’s a master “game” player who knows how to say all the right lies and lines. I then initiated NC. It gave me a feeling of satisfaction to lay it all on the line to him and as a real zinger I even let him think that I still wanted to be friends with him but when he texted me a week later to say “hi” I responded with the reply “who is this,I don’t recognize this number.” Needless to say he texted back “never mind” and I haven’t heard from his since and it’s been 2 months. So in essence I played him the way he played me and I don’t feel bad about it at all.
natalie,
thank you for this post’s advice. this past week, i had a bit of a sticky situation with a close friend that was bothering me. i knew to take time with it, just sit until i didn’t feel so fraught over it. but it was good that this post came when it did because we started discussing it in email and rather than let that continue, based on your advice, i wrote her back “can you talk for a minute?”
she said yes, and i called her to discuss it. i gently told her what was bothering me, was very careful in how i worded what i had to say, used a lot of “i-statements” and took responsibility for my part in it.
we talked it through and she actually thanked me for being a good enough friend and being brave enough to bring up my problem with her about what had happened. whew! it could have gone either way. i was glad for the good outcome but would have been glad no matter what that i handled it how i did.
so thanks. rather than wasting time and risking misunderstanding and escalation on email or text, its better to just man up, find a good time, and actually discuss things.
Sadder
I agree with Gina; you were spot on. Sometimes it is important to speak (or write) your truth but with the understanding that this is for YOU. He won’t give a tinkers damn about what he did and what you felt. Keeping it all inside is the dynamic of dysfunction like being abused as a kid and being forced to keep silence. I know that when I sent my letter to AC, I did not want to give him any further opportunity to demean and humiliate me and too a certain pride in knowing full well I am probably the only woman that has called him on his behavior. Though I had solid evidence of his cheating on both me and another woman whom I know, I chose to leave things so that “he knew that I knew” and left it at that.
Lord, please tell me this gets easier…
Today is my first day of NC. For the past two years, I have been in a long-distance relationship with a man whom I’ve suspected is EU for some time now. There were little signs – at first he was so affectionate, so gung-ho for us — made all kinds of effort and talked about us ‘taking steps’ to be together and possibly having a baby soon (children are something he claims to desperately want — although doesn’t seem to like them that much in ‘real life’, oddly). Then, things gradually dwindled — he calls me at least 3-4 times a week, right up until yesterday. But now always on his way home from work. I began to feel like I was a good option when he was driving and didn’t have anything better to do. I’d start to notice that he’d be up late on Facebook, but not talking to me, as he used to. So who was he talking to?
We don’t get to see each other very often (live about 1,000 miles apart) — but we used to, um… talk a bit sexy… lol… online. It was really great fun, for us both, or so I thought. Then that stopped, too — it became less and less, and it only happened when he wanted it. If I did, I’d get a curt “lol” and then he’d change the subject. I asked him about this and he assured me that “everything was fine” and I was his best friend — the person he could open up to about anything — and wasn’t that so much more valuable than sex? Should’ve seen the red flag then — he was never interested in anything I needed or wanted. If it wasn’t something HE needed at the moment, it didn’t matter. I began to suspect that he was getting that kind of attention either from someone local, or just someone new. He assured me that this was crazy, and didn’t we connect on a ‘deeper level’ than any of that? We are ‘best friends’ after all…
Well, yesterday, he called in the afternoon. We’re both writers, and we were talking about some illustrators we’d worked with. He mentioned that he had some drawings commissioned recently of ‘a friend of his.’ Immediately, alarm bells went off. This was her. I asked him who it was — in a very nice, non-accusatory way. He said ‘oh, nobody you know.’ I asked if he knew her through work — he said no, and then volunteered that “nothing had ever happened between them” in a tired-omg-I-can’t-believe-I-have-to-explain-this-sounding voice. I can’t explain it, but I knew — this was the reason, or one the reasons that we were ‘just friends’ now. He’s moved on, but still liked his ‘driving buddy’ to talk to in the afternoons. I just feel sick. I was (am?) in love with this man — but I haven’t been happy with the crumbs I’ve been getting for a very long time. All I do is fantasize about the way things used to be between us — the way he used to make me feel. It was amazing and I miss him SO much in that way. But I have to remember, he’s known how unhappy I am, how much I miss that — and he’s chosen to do nothing about it. So I sent him this last night:
“I would appreciate it if you would not call me, email me or fb message me in the future. In fact, it would be best if you delete me from facebook altogether, if you don’t mind. I’m really serious. Thank you. — D ”
He hasn’t replied. I’ve also unfriended him on Facebook. I don’t plan to contact him again — but I feel like someone’s ripped my lungs out. Wracked with pain, crying all day, and not at all sure I’ve made the right decision. Maybe I’ve been cruel, and rash — I didn’t even really give him a chance to explain himself. Maybe our friendship IS more important than sex, and I should just be happy with that? But, then again, there is a lot of evidence stacked against him. What do you ladies think of all this?
This must have been so difficult, Foxglove. I must tell you that I admire you to pieces on how you handled the situation and the curt but cordial email you sent. Give yourself some time; you’re a day into to NC and believe me when I tell you that it does get easier. So many of us on this sight can attest to the same. Right now you’re in the fog of remembering better days and second-guessing your very good judgement. Stay strong and don’t waiver. From personal experience I know that each time I went back or allowed my EU back into my life it only reinforced to him that I expected nothing more and/or better and left the door open to continue to treat me only as an option or convenience and ONLY when it suited him. You know what, I didn’t receive more or better either. In my opinion, I don’t think you read the situation incorrectly. The fact that you can point to tangible examples reveals this, really.
Be kind to yourself and BIG hugs to you.
Dear Foxglove – No Contact is your new Best Friend.
I could write a book on long distance relationships and what a mess they’ve made of my life.
In my experience, when you play out a relationship online – only hooking up in person once a month, once every few months, a couple times a year, etc. you really never get to know the person for who they really are.
Those times that you do get together are like a drug trip – heady, delirious, and not at all real. Then you go home and miss them for a while, talk on the phone or chat online some more, until the communication gets “weird”. This whole thing (for me) would play out in cycles.
A few times I actually picked up and moved so I could live near (or with! gah!) that person. What a mess. Only once did it (sort of) work out – turns out that the guy I moved for and I were really better off just being friends and not lovers.
If you are meant to be friends with this person – ONLINE – then give yourself some time to grieve the “romantic” feelings you had for him.
Get to the point in your head where you are not going to care who he’s sleeping with or what he’s doing on a Saturday night when he’s not online talking to you.
Get out and interact with other humans in real life, face to face. Change up your routine.
Once you can face seeing him online and not “care” when he talks about other women – then maybe.. just maybe.. you can resume being “friends”.
Until then, stay NC. Otherwise it’s just going to feel like you’re picking at a scab that just never heals.
Amy
I could not agree more about online/longdistance “relationships”. Men who choose to interact in this way do so because they DON’T actually want a relationship, whether because they are married, or because they are EU. Total waste of time and emotional energy.
Foxglove (cool name
I’m not the Lord, but I can tell you, without a doubt, it does get easier if you take Natalie’s advice and put everything you have into getting over these assholes. It is possible and well worth it. Listen, if you think he’s an ass, he is undoubtably an ass. Listen to you. On some level we already know. Everything. Extract it and move with it, let it motivate you, the truth that is, not scare you. You’re too strong for that. We all are. Onwards.
foxglove
i had an online fantasy relationship which ended with me losing over half my life savings, sustaining lifelong injuries and fleeing for my life.
It’s an extreme example but YOU DO NOT KNOW THIS PERSON AND HE DOES NOT KNOW YOU. the fact that you are both writers is a fantasy relationship hyper alert.
These things are hard to get over because it’s all in your head. It’s hard to argue with your own head but let me tell you, your head is wrong.
If my boyfriend and I break up I would be very sad but I don’t think it would be the scene of devastation of my previous breakups from fantasy non-relationships. Because I know him. I would know who he is and why we broke up. Reality puts a boundary around how much pain there will be. If it’s all in your head, the only boundary is your imagination. I wouldn’t be kicking myself that we didn’t give it our best. I will know that we did. I wouldn’t be wondering what perfect heights we could have achieved, because we would have had a real, ordinary relationship. Okay, I’ve got to stop imagining that we will break up!
What you imagine is not real. You aren’t friends, your friendship is not that special, it’s barely existent, texts and messages are not a relationship, sex IS important(if not actual sex at least physical affection), he’s not faithful, it’s not deep, he’s not honest, it’s not love.
I wouldn’t hold out for friendship even as a remote possibility. it’s not worth it.
I’m being quite hard on you. My friends at the time, looking at me (attractive, intelligent, good at my job, responsible) thought I was able to make the judgement call to give up all that I had to go to another country to live with a man I had met online. I don’t know if I would have listened if one of them had said STOP. But, I’m saying to you, STOP.
foxglove
sorry, something to add. I see that your relationship is more than online since there are phone calls. my ex and I called too and we saw each other a few times. It’s still overvaluing crumbs. Like you say, it’s mostly about convenience. For him and, dare I say it, for us too.
I recommend Nat’s dreamer book.
Thanks, all, for your replies about this. Well, I’ve already emailed him. Lol — I hope you’re not all too disappointed in me, it was just something I felt I needed to do. I wouldn’t want to have been dumped like that, no explanation, no discussion — so I didn’t want to do it to someone else. The email was actually very kind, I thought — it wasn’t a laundry list of things he’s done wrong (although it could have been) — I thought it actually accentuated what was positive in the relationship. I’ve already decided on NC — I’ve already decided that THIS relationship and THIS man are not going to be able to give me what I need. I do feel somewhat better now. He’s not replied, and that’s ok. I had a weak moment and looked at his blog — I noted that I’ve been deleted from his list of followers. Wow, wasn’t expecting that — guess he’s angry. So be it. If anything, it confirms that I made the right decision. No more contact. Thanks for your insights — I have Mr. Unavailable — I will also check out ‘The Dreamer.’
I would just like to add that I’ve been reading Natalie’s “Mr. Unavailable” — and, ohhhh… wow. This could be about us. Wow. The way he was at the beginning — so intense, so persistent — he’d even talked about moving here and asking if I’d be willing to have his baby right away. He’d be willing to do that because he KNEW I was right. In fact, I didn’t mention this in my first post, but we have been in a “relationship” together in the distant past. 13 years ago, when we were both in college, we became friends and started sleeping together. Want to know how it ended? When one of his roomates told me he’d had a girlfriend at the time. Yeah. :/
But, he’d changed, of course. One of the “biggest regrets of his life” was not pursuing me and being honest back in school. And he “couldn’t believe he was getting a second chance.” This was all before he unceremoniously friend-zoned me, mind you. He even used to talk about how “unique” our situation was, and how many people are lucky enough to get a second chance, with their college “almost-sweetheart… the person they’ve always known they SHOULD have been with anyway” (his words). Oh my god, ladies… oh. my. GOD. I’ve been SO stupid. I can hardly believe it… Tigers don’t change their stripes and bad apples can’t change their rotten cores… again… just feel so stupid.
Foxglove,
You are not stupid. You were mindf*cked. I would (and have) fallen for the same thing. Hopefully not anymore! There’s nothing stupid about believing what someone tells you. I try to be honest with others, and I believe that others are honest with me–up until the point when they prove otherwise.
People can and do change–I just had to give up (and am STILL working) on giving up the illusion that I can *make* someone change ( be honest, act with integrity). I had a friend treat me very badly in the past. Six months later she called and asked for my forgiveness: she didn’t blame me, she didn’t make excuses, and she didn’t expect that we could be friends again. I’m a big believer in second chances, and three years later, she is probably my best and closest friend. She did change. She is honest, treats me with respect, is fun to be around, and genuinely loves me. In the very few instances when we have had conflict, we are respectful of each other, apologize, and change the behavior if necessary. She respects my boundaries, and I respect hers. It’s fairly easy because we share the same core values. The difference is, I didn’t make or persuade her to do anything. Her actions match her words.
You aren’t stupid for giving someone a second chance. I am so glad I gave my friend a second chance. You gave someone a second chance, and it ended up that they really hadn’t changed and their actions were not matching their words. You fairly judged the situation and opted out. Be proud of you!
Thank you, Laurie. I relate very much to a lot of what you’re saying. I try to be honest in my dealings with people, and I assume others do as well. This is one of the few times I’ve been burned. I let so many boundaries get pushed — back when he was in his “intense” phase, he’d push me to talk about certain sexual things that I was not necessarily comfortable with — but he just kept doing it. I ALLOWED that somehow — I KEPT talking to him. It got to the point where I became desensitized to it, even — then, guess what, even that wasn’t enough. I got friend-zoned by the world’s biggest pervert. My eyes are now wide open.
I wish I’d seen this article 3 mos ago. I am so darn guilty of texting/emailing my ex about issues that should really be addressed in person. I guess what prompted me to do it was my inability to express myself when I face him. I just couldn’t say the things that I wanted to tell him. To make matters worst, English is not my first language and I also struggle for words which sometimes come out as may be inappropriate or too strong for a certain situation. It was a dilemma on my part. I was comforted by Natalie’s statement, “If someone sends you a text / email with the potential for conflict, be the bigger person and pick up the phone or respond asking to meet or to arrange a time to speak.” I wish he was this. Instead, he also replied through a text message and email. If he really cared much about me and the relationship, he could have picked up the phone and call me and talk to me straight, right? He also knew that I struggle in speaking English especially when I am emotional. The most painful thing he did instead, he texted me back, “Clearly we are not matched.” and broke up with me via text message and confirmed it through email. I am still processing things until now blaming myself why the rel’p had ended. I wish I was bolder and braver and confident enough to tell him honestly what went wrong. I want to move on and just forgive myself for what happened. After reading this article, I will make sure no more text messages and emails for me in my next relationship. I hope. Thanks for hearing me out.
Beth D
“Not sure if I got his on BR website or somewhere else but I saved this “’ve read that encounters with narcissists take much longer to over come than do relationships with normal people. The reason is that with narcissists you are dealing with a person who has their own reality and only plays by their own rules, which they change as often as need to suit them. They also lie without blinking, contradict themselves and gaslight you. So in the end you are left feeling like you are completely crazy. Part of getting beyond them is realizing there is no logic to their behaviour. It just is. We need to re-direct our focus on to our own feelings and reactions instead. ”
Girl, ain’t it the truth?? It has been 7 months and I am still trying to recover from my previous relationship with a man who had a personality disorder! I don’t have feelings for him anymore, I just cannot get my mind around how someone could be so devious, manipulative, controlling, and calculating all under the pretense of being “Mr. Nice Guy.” At least with the so-called “Bad boys” what you see is what you get. It’s those nice ones with whom I have to keep my wits about me.
Gina That’s what makes it so tough. Mine was so wonderful when he was on it is mind boggling. You just have to get it through your head Mr Wonderful wasn’t who you thought he was. It is also a reason you can never be friends. They hold a weird power over you and rough to get out of their web. I am friends with both my long term college sweetheart and my ex husband with no problem. This one claimed I was his best friend and we needed to stay friends. Practically bullied me into the friendship. Trying to be friends with this one was torture! You need to flush them and heal. I love your what you see is what you get with bad boys. Never had trouble dumping a bad boy but the insidious bad behavior of these types of disordered guys leaves you obsessing and analyzing for way too long.
Foxglove. If there’s one thing I’ve learned it’s that the nagging little inner voice, your gut, is more times than not, correct. You feel as though he is slipping away, that he knows this and is not trying to really reassure you that this is not so. I don’t think you’ve been too hasty and not given him a chance. He’s been showing you that you are no longer that important to him. Why should you stick around and make him carve it in stone. This is how we add fuel to the fire of our hurt and disillusionment. You don’t have to beg for his attention. Move on, chalk it up, and create a better life for yourself. Let him be. Men are really not as deep or difficult to figure out as we may think. Ask yourself “Do his actions match his words?” Good luck and take care of YOU.
Hi, Tinkerbell — oh, yeah, the signs have been there. It used to be, if I had an issue with the relationship, he’d respond right away and be VERY reassuring, explaining away my doubts. The last few times I’ve brought something up — he hasn’t even bothered to respond. Seriously, how could I not have seen this sooner. I think you’re right — I’m no longer that important to him, and he’s probably not grieving the loss of me anywhere near as much as I am that of him. For him, I think it’s more about anger — how DARE I cut him off? There’s always been something that scares me a little bit about him.
No more online relationships for me!! NO MORE!! My “epiphany” relationship… or rather pseudo-relationship (long story!) that launched a flaky MUA into full blown AC category ended with an email.
I was expecting to be “dumped” via email because he was clearly conflict avoidant (we were PERFECT for each other in that respect). He never picked up the damned phone, and always sounded inconvenienced whenever I called him.
What I was not expecting was the paragraph in that email related to how he was hoping I would be able to help him get over his ex, and that it was HER he thought of every day, and not me.
To lay that shit out in an email was cowardly and cruel, BUT… it was the gigantic clue bat across the forehead that I needed.
I did not respond, and instead went NC, dropped him from FB, and eradicated all traces of this guy from my cell phone.
I realized that far too many of my most unhealthy relationships were conducted “online”, long distance and/or with very little in the way of quality face time.
It’s extremely difficult to get to know someone when you spend the majority of your time online “chatting” vs. actually hanging out in the flesh.
While long-distance relationships can sometimes work out, for me they’re just another way for me to build up an elaborate fantasy around who that person really is.
Hell, I was in a “long-distance” relationship with someone who lived 30 miles from me!! How stupid is that?
If the man does not have the stones to pick up the phone and call you to tell you that it’s “over”, or that he’s “conflicted” or whatever the heck is brewing in that skull of his – run…(not walk) away.
With these types of situations there is seldom closure, it’s never pretty, and unless you can go total NC it takes forever to get over.
I’ve come to realize that this whole addiction to online vs. “real life” relating is just another red flag.
These types of men can be “friends” but if it gets physical be prepared to be placed into the “booty call” bucket.
From now on, any relationship I cultivate is going to start in real life, and grow in real life.
Wow, Amy — what a horrible thing for him to say to you! You are so right about these online long distance things being based in the realm of fantasy. Mine used to always say things like “if we were married, would you do this, would you do that? Would you allow me to do THIS?? (sometimes stuff involving other women!!!)” — as if I was being auditioned or something! So weird and bizarre…
And, I have to realize, I was fantasizing a lot, too. We’d send each other real estate listings of houses we could live in together, stuff like that — but with no real concrete plans to be in the same area. To be REALLY kind to him — I think part of the reason he decided we’d be ‘just friends’ is because we both realized that, with the reality of our job situations, there was no way either could move. Still, every think of being honest and TELLING someone your thoughts — or making that decision together? Oh, duh — that’d be way too healthy. :/
I almost did this yesterday (told the EU AC I’ve been dealing with for the past 8 months about himself via email). I wanted to list out all the reasons I hated him, etc., but then I realized that would look petty and immature. So instead, I sent him an email explaining my feelings about why I could not remain friends with him after he told me that he didn’t want anything “serious” but that if he got to the point where he wanted to be in an actual relationship, “he would consider me an option.”
That was the breaking point; the more I thought about it, the more I realized — I am NO ONE’s option. It jumpstarted my self-esteem because I realized I am not a sideline ho to be called off the bench and pinch hit at his whim. So, I told him in my email that I was going no contact and that all communications would need to be professional from now on (since I have to work with him). He flipped out and insulted me. I started to respond in anger and tell him about himself, but then I came across NML’s post about keeping the proverbial door shut and decided not to respond. His email confirmed that I made the right choice and has helped me get through day one of NC, though I know there is still a long road ahead.
I almost did this yesterday (told the EU AC I’ve been dealing with for the past 8 months about himself via email). I wanted to list out all the reasons I hated him, etc., but then I realized that would look petty and immature. So instead, I sent him an email explaining my feelings about why I could not remain friends with him after he told me that he didn’t want anything “serious” but that if he got to the point where he wanted to be in an actual relationship, “he would consider me an option.”
That was the breaking point; the more I thought about it, the more I realized — I am NO ONE’s option. It jumpstarted my self-esteem because I realized I am not a sideline ho to be called off the bench and pinch hit at his whim. So, I told him in my email that I was going no contact and that all communications would need to be professional from now on (since I have to work with him). He flipped out and insulted me. I started to respond in anger and tell him about himself, but then I came across NML’s post about keeping the proverbial door shut and decided not to respond. His email confirmed that I made the right choice and has helped me get through day one of NC, though I know there is still a long road ahead.
“His email confirmed that I made the right choice and has helped me get through day one of NC, though I know there is still a long road ahead.”
It sure did!!! Hang strong You made the right decision. That song “Somebody I Use to Know” is so true. They act like assholes but they can’t get why you need to cut them off. Selfish jerks!
Yes exactly, they don’t have any insight into their ACness, so any backlash from us, they just chalk up to instability and phsyco tendancies on our part and then they think THEY had a ‘lucky break’ that they stayed distant or broke it off. DON’T give them the satisfaction.
Yesterday I came up with an analogy, in case mine turns up again and I need to remember to stay strong, is to think of people as planets. If you visit one, and even though you had a good time for a short time, something in the atmosphere made you very very ill, would you go back for another visit?
I’d actually say “Somebody I thought I knew”.
Omg I love i Laura “somebody I thought I knew!!!” Ain’t it the truth. Love your analogy jewells. Good way to look at it. Of course we wouldn’t visit. Our health depends on not visiting.
Beth/Jewells/Lau_ra:
Thank you all for the support. He’s being so nice now that I started to wonder if I made the wrong decision. I keep reminding myself of how horrible I felt when he was a total AC to me, and that is what prevents me from reaching out to him. Day 2 down! LOL
McKenzie Of course he is being nice since you cut him off. Are ya kidding? I did the NC thing before I even knew about NC It was instinct for me since I had never b4 encountered the crazy disrespectful behavior of my ex. Mine was not only nice but the longer I went the nicer he was and if he convinced me to meet him in person which he did way back….. he came with diamond jewelry, designer bags and heartfelt cards. He would throw in a few tears for good measure. Ughh I wanted so bad to think I was wrong about him and I was totally attracted to him so I would melt. Now I see it for what it was. Narcissistic manipulation at it’s best. He was the master of the game.
Beth –
WOW. Jewelry, bags, and heartfelt cards? That’s a new level of narcissistic manipulation. I don’t think my EU AC will get to that level, but nonetheless, I’m glad I have this site and the commenters here as well as a couple good friends IRL to remind me that him being nice is just another manipulation tactic. Enjoy your weekend, everyone!
There were points in the relationship, he was so distraught at losing me he would do anything. It is about loss of control for a Narc/Ac’s. I believe he thought he loved me and couldn’t live without me as his cards would say. I wanted to believe him. He just didn’t know he is not capable of loving anyone in a healthy way. I didn’t know it either till after my final break up when I got a total devaluation after 10 years. None of his old manipulations worked any more.
Enjoy your weekend and stay strong! You sound like you have good friends. They really do help in these situations as well as the great posters on BR and Natalie.
mcKenzie you need to read this
http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/why-youre-nobodys-option/
We all feel for you as most of us have walked in your shoes. Please trust us when we tell you to stay NC. If you put your hand back in the fire it will BURN. When I went back to my ex narc (after the kind words and lovely cards Beth mentions) I got hurt even worse than before. He actually pulled NEW SHIT on me!
I loved that post too V My ex tried to make me his option post break up under the guise of friendship. I am glad for that time cause yes I put my hand in briefly a few times and boy did I get burnt! And yes there was new shit! The good news is his true colors came out more than ever post break up. NC all the way. These guys are dangerous to your health!
Victorious – I read that post. I’ve actually been going back and reading the posts on here tagged NC. VERY helpful.
Beth – Thanks. I’m 5 days into NC, and yesterday was the most difficult so far. A mutual friend posted something about him on Facebook hanging out with another girl and it just really bugged me. I can’t wait until I get to the point where I don’t care what he’s doing, where he is, etc. because I know he probably doesn’t give two sh!ts about what’s going on in my life right now. And, THAT is actually the part that bugs me the most. ugh
McKenzie It’s very helpful to read the NC posts. You are doing good. It will get better. At some point when you are ready you will cut off the social media checking up thing. This will be one of the hardest things you do but keep thinking of it as a new beginning to peace and sanity.
I can only agree that NC on social media is very very effective. I can honestly say I only started to heal after I unfriended the guy, deleted his contacts from every single communication means I have and stopped watching what mutual friends post for him-just seeing his name on my contacts list actually made me feel sad and fantasise of how things could have turned out, instead on focusing on the fact he is gone and not in a respectful way.If a guy cares aout you, he simply doesn’t do nasty stuff to you. If he does nasty stuff-he doesn’t care-its as simple as that.
My therapist introduced me to a concept of life scenarios and I’ve noticed that in many of them the main thing with women is that they keep giving their love and affection to those who don’t deserve it. And lots of them live their whole lives thinking its just the way it is and you should’t expect more – this actually shocked me.I say lets re-write our scenarios starting just now.
The problem I’m having is we have like 30 mutual friends, none of whom know what went down because neither I nor AC have told them anything. People suspect something happened, but have no concrete proof except for the fact that we are no longer Facebook friends. So even though I don’t have him added/follow him, he still shows up in my feed because of retweets, posts friends make, etc. It’s enough to make me want to delete all my social media accounts, lol.
If you can’t edit the settings so that you wouldn’t see things posted to a particular person, maybe you should tell something to your mutual friends? Not neccesary all the story in details (for that only gives “fuel” for gossip), but something that it didn’t work out and ended in way that wasn’t very nice, or smth, so they would be more conscious when posting things and maybe edit the list of people who can see their posts? Mutual friends of mine asked how were things with the guy (for we met through those friends), and I told them he vanished without going into details, so they were really diplomatic about that, and I never saw any post for him on their behalf while he was in my friendlist.
Shoot, you got cards, jewelry, and fancy bags? Then you were informed that you were an option? Your comment re-jumped my self-esteem. You are nobody’s option, cards, jewelry, and bags nothwithstanding. Note to self…neither am I, despite the lack of material goods. I just got sex or the hope of sex, if he had the time! And I could cook dinner too if he gave me 30 minutes warning. So now I feel like telling him what an effing loser he is all over again. I won’t. But he is an effing loser. McKenzie, don’t put another moment into that loser, whether by text, email or in person. (Note to Runner.)
Thanks, runnergirl. I’m working on it.
Runner I left myself open to being an option. I did end it for good after his last “freak out” Then after months of NC I broke and answered his call. He begged me to at least be friends. I buckled cause I missed him. Mistake!! Let him get in my life and my head again and then I became his option. The post break up bs was worse than the relationship. If I didn’t do NC it would still be going on. I lol at how you feel like telling him off. I have had those moments where I think of something he said or did and wanted to call him right there and then to blast him. I just call a friend and end up laughing about it.
I am of mixed opinions about long distance relationships. Other posters are correct in that a man in a ldr could well have something else going on unbeknown to you but hell, I had someone who had something else going on and got away with it for a long time due to our conflicting work schedules and he did own property out of town. I found that if you work, he is retired, or you work at night and he does not, you are vulnerable to being cheated on if that is his inclination. Because I live in a small town where the men in my age range are generally folk that do not come even close to sharing my values, my only option is to go on line and look for someone who is retired and about 75-100 miles away. I also have learned the hard way that in a small place relationships that didn’t work out are difficult to escape. I have one problem child whose house I must pass by on the way to work and the narc at work. You check the cars in the parking lots of restaurants before you go there, you avoid other places they might be, it’s very uncomfortable dealing with their business partners and friends. Really bad problem children who cannot take no for an answer know where you live, where you work. For me, it is easiest to delete with impunity when my spidey senses tell me something is not right knowing that I will never have to deal with them again. Lie about your physical appearance and health-poof! Look great but start making racist remarks- poof! Meet me for lunch, show up dirty and smelly and spend the next hour complaining about your health- double poof! Maybe this makes me somewhat EU myself but it’s a lot safer and less aggravating in the long run.
Thanks for your reply Laurie. =)
Mags. This guy is bordering on TOO MUCH. Not sure what the fallout might be but you might consider being more direct & less ‘nice’ in how you handle him. It sounds like sexual harrassment to me. I’d be documenting it & more direct that his attention is unwanted & considered inappropriate (the chocolate is reason enough for this). You could try an email, firmly & respectfully worded. It might say, ‘I don’t know if you are the person who left me this chocolate, however, if so I need to make myself clear. Then perhaps mention some things he has been doing, that it’s making you feel uncomfortable & you request he desist from all such behaviour (ie non work related emails etc). The beauty of this is you can say, ‘if you didn’t leave the chocolate, I do apologise, however my request still stands. Include a link to your HR sexual harrassment policy & say the matter will ‘go no further’ if it stops now. Then, make him strictly work interaction only. You may feel uncomfortable around him doing this, but you will feel more uncomfortable if his inappropriate behaviour continues, & you don’t assert yourself. This is just a.suggestion of one way to handle this. An email in this case is better than talking to him about it as it creates a document trail of evidence, you can draw on, if he continues.
After sex recently with my AC, the traditional disappearing act until yesterday when he sent an email that said, “I have something I want to say to you.” I responded “which is?” And the usual crumbs response “Soon”. I have yet to hear anything else. Arggghh. My son was just sent to prison. Naturally, no correspondence to ask how I am doing.
Nancy, you refer to this “man” as “My AC” Do you really want one of these? In your life, which is, like all of ours, shockingly short? He sounds like a POS. You would not treat someone like this would you? Please stop accepting it from him. Can you just block him? Think of the shock when desparate and needy little Nancy blocks him and goes NC? It sounds like you have other priorities and maybe instead of wasting your energy on this idiot you can apply the same care, thought and love to yourself and your family and real friends? You may think I am being tough here but once you have put some time and distance between yourself and the Bad Man you will look back and say “What Was I Thinking?” And you will be HORRIFIED.
I was thinking the exact same thing as what Victorious said. Nancy this guy is a sociopath! How little regard he has for you! I think in a way this guy may be a distraction for what pain you are feeling for your son. The truth is you need to be surrounded now with positive people who truly care for you. This horrible louse needs to be flushed immediately if not sooner! I would cut him off here and now with no explanation and focus on yourself.
Nancy, your son was just sent to prison? How are you doing? I am sorry.
Foxglove: At least your EU AC deleted you. Mine won’t unfollow me and has actually started trying harder to be friends with me again… I was tempted to give in on NC and respond since he was being so nice, but remembered that this was probably an attempt to get me to open the proverbial door and decided against it. That was the right choice… right?
Hi, McKenzie — yes, he did delete me — although, I can still see the blog (it’s public), so I’m not sure what the point was. To “teach me a lesson”, I’m sure… lol. I’m beginning to wonder if I did the right thing in writing to explain my actions to him — I was WAY too nice. I got the main points out there — but also stuff like “I think the world of you, and I wish you all the best in life…” *cringe* As for your ex — yes, I really believe this was him trying to get the door open. If you’re committed to NC, you did the right thing — esp. if you think being ‘friends’ with him is not a great idea…
Foxglove – He finally unfollowed me. I should be glad, yet strangely enough I was tempted to email him and see how he was doing. So weird. I didn’t, though… mostly because I knew my best friend would kill me and all the stories in the comments on this blog have said that breaking NC never ends up going well.
Oh, and today officially makes one week of NC.
As I was on the treadmill today, a rainy soggy day, and the anniversary of my my mother’s death at 62, I wanted to tell my father all about what a scum-bucket of a father he was and how he killed my mother via a fatal STD back in the day before folks were aware of STD’s. I guess I need to write the unsent letter to my poor mother. But I still want to smack my father right upside his 70 yro head. He gets to live and screw women up one side and down another, and my mother is dead due to his indiscretion and unprotected sexual encounters. Thankfully it is late, otherwise I’d call him (after years of NC) and give him nine kinds of grief for being the biggest asshole on the planet. My father could see any AC on the planet and raise them.
Hi Runner,
Those are very painful thoughts to have on top of the loss you’re thinking of at this time. Your father is damaging selfishness incarnate and you have done worlds of good by distancing yourself and your kids from him. I hope you’re able to ride out the grief without calling him. He doesn’t deserve to hear your voice or know that you care if he breathes.
Hi Magnolia, I rode out the grief without calling, emailing, or smacking my father upside the head. Apparently, it was a of a bit clash this past weekend. Anniversary of my mother’s passing and the “anniversary” of getting involved with the exMM. Weird, it’s the same day.
I hope you are doing well with your new job?
BTW, my father is 70-something and still a raging AC. So if there are any folks out there thinking that age has something to do with it, not in this case. Watch out for a striking 70-something. He, he, he!
Runnergirl my father died last year aged 73 from alcoholic liver disease. When my siblings and I (all NC with him) cleared his flat, we found 752 condoms, 2000 porno mags, and photos of various women in a state of undress taken on his mobile phone. At the funeral, a range of women sidled up to us to whisper ” I had a very close relationship with your father.” We just tactfully replied, ” Yes, we know, he thought very highly of you.” We said this to each and every one of these poor deluded women who each thought they were special in his eyes. The only time we lost it was when one lady said, “I was very close to your father, I used to do his cleaning for him.” and my little brother replied, “yeah, I’ve seen the pictures, you cleaned naked!”
I think they get WORSE with age, not better. There’s a sobering thought.
It is a known fact that narcissist get worse with age. Omg you had his entire harem at the funeral? Ughh Your little brother sounds like a riot!
Oh yeah, skills come with practise… long years of practising being an AC! So we could actually say they get *better* at that:D and think if any of us really needs such a “better” version of a particular AC.
Victorious, holy shit. I … just, holy shit. Wow. I’m laughing (sort of) because you sound strong about it. But also yuck.
Victorious. “…..yeah, I’ve seen the pictures. You cleaned naked.” Priceless and hilarious – out of the mouths of babes. Tell will tell it in a heartbeat. LOL!
As per everyone’s suggestions and so many of Nat’s posts, the urge to tell my 70-something raging narc father that he is a raging narc and then some, passed. I sat through, acknowledged, and felt the sad and angry feelings. I’ve still got to do the Unsent Letter to my mother who I blamed for my father’s illegal behavior.
Thank you Victorious for the funerary tips, although I am sorry you and your siblings had to live through it. And I’m sorry for the passing of your father. I do appreciate how you and your siblings tactfully replied to his harem. I will definitely remember your response as I’m sure we will be faced with the same scenario. It would be me, however, that would have to say what your brother said…priceless.
So the moral to the story for me, is run, flush, and don’t look back. Narc’s, in my experience, don’t get better with age no matter how many times you tell them via any means. I don’t want to be one of the deluded women at some narc’s funeral who thinks she was special. 752 condoms? I guess at least he had condoms? Once again, I guess I’m not alone. Thank you so much. No more arguing.
The 752 condoms was a rough estimate. One of my brothers put one in the pocket of dads funeral jacket. I should probably point out that my “little” brother is in fact 17 and as camp as Christmas so he gets away with saying ANYTHING!! Actually I didn’t know he existed until our Dad died so that was an unexpected pleasure. See there is an upside to having a Dad like this, bonus half siblings! There are 5 of us ranging in age from 50 to 17. As well as breaking many hearts, he also owed many of these women money
omg – maybe I’m in a weird mood, but your attitude towards it all makes it hilarious, Victorious! The dearly departed with condom-in-pocket put there by someone whose very life might only be because he had forgotten a dome that day. Priceless. 50 to 17! The old man was busy! Bonus half siblings indeed!
Reminds me of my great-grandfather, whom everyone calls Old Man So and So. Eighteen legitimate children, three recognized children from different mistresses, and who knows how many others. My family says, gotta love those Muslims, but I don’t know, not every Muslim is out there fathering his own small nation!
Okay Victorious, you cheered me up immensely. A condom in his pocket! That little bro sounds cool and quite the unexpected pleasure indeed. Thank you for the heads up about the half-sibs. I have 5 full siblings but expect there are some half sibs out there and I’ll look forward to meeting them. What a wonderful perspective.
Seriously, you really helped me place the last pieces? of father baggage where it belongs. There is no arguing with the dearly departed.
PS. I think I have an idea for his x-mas present next year! I like your little bro.
Glad to help! The funny thing is it’s my mother that is the full blown narc!!! Story (stories) for another day. Yes although I was very sad about my Dad dying, he was pretty useless as a father and so he didn’t exactly leave a huge hole in any of our lives. We HAD to see the funny side of it all.
A friend of mine had a similar situation where she found she had a half brother but only knew about him when her father died so it must happen more often than you would think.
We felt sorry for the harem, and for those, including our mothers (two of them dead) who had been used up and discarded by him.
All I can do now is learn from it and make sure I don’t end up like them.
Maybe I’m old-fashioned but I always make a point not to open up an argument over email or text. It’s easier for it to get out of control, and once you’ve written something in a physical form you can’t retract it. Well words count too but the memory of them being said fades a lot easier than a text that can be looked over again and again.
I tend to ignore texts like that but I do make an effort to raise the subject in person.
I couldn’t disagree more. There are times when keeping it to text or email is totally appropriate! Breaking up an affair that’s hurting another person and your own honor- no need for debate, no need for respect (they deserve none for being in it in the first place), and any criticism you’re avoiding is worthless, look who it’s coming from!
Just dump him/her hard and don’t look back. Who cares if they’re hurt? They deserve to be and they’ll never hurt as much as the innocents who were hurt.
No debate would be appropriate. And they don’t deserve the time of day.
I knew text was invented for a reason, also as often affairs are mainly conducted by text it’s so karmic to dump them the same way,