Comments on: Is it love? Or is it fear, drama and pain?

By: Butterfly

Butterfly — Sun, 19 Jul 2009 21:34:31 +0000

I just read this article and whilst I agree in principle with this above, I’d like to make an amendment:

“Wishing you the best. STAY on this website, make it your relationship bible, and in a little while, his happiness will be as important to you as a piece of shit on *****HIS****** shoe.”

I’d be bothered by shitty shoes, I like my shoes. They have value to me. They protect me, keep me safe, help me get where I need to go.

LOL

By: Hummingbird

Hummingbird — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:48:04 +0000

I am guilty of this drama thing. I thought I am deeply in love with my MM but after reading this, it just shows that I am addicted to pain and drama. It is so true!

By: De

De — Fri, 22 May 2009 21:20:20 +0000

Aahh Karen, thanks for your mail..a kindred spirit!! I am feeling wonderful and agree with everything you say! More power to us

take kick-arse care!

By: ph2072

ph2072 — Fri, 22 May 2009 12:03:57 +0000

sianna:

Trust and believe that he will NOT change just because he’s with another woman. A leopard does not change its spots (and it’s VERY RARE if it DOES change its spots). He will do the same thing to any future women, it’s just that he’ll charm them first and they’ll be too blinded by his charm to see the red flags.

This may not comfort you much, but just wanted to tell you that the chances of him changing now that he’s with someone else are as slim as an ice cube surviving in hell.

Wishing you the best. STAY on this website, make it your relationship bible, and in a little while, his happiness will be as important to you as a piece of shit on your shoe.

By: Karen

Karen — Thu, 21 May 2009 16:05:36 +0000

De:
Just read your post and GOOD FOR YOU! I too have been a lot more stern and tough with my boundaries. Its funny because when you stick up for yourself your considered a “bitch” and when you dont, you’re a door mat. Ive encountered many people telling me that I have changed..and quite frankly– i have– but for the good (I think). For most of my life I have put myself second and I have not had strong enough boundaries with my family, friends, co-workers not to mention boyfriends! Like you I feel empowered to be able to say “NO” or stand my ground on certain things rather than give in so easily. I do have to say that it takes some getting used to because I certainly find myself thinking to myself “Was I just mean or wrong for saying No?”, will this person not like me anymore because Im not going out of my way to be nice?” etc.. etc… I have learned that boundaries are important to have and you are right, I rather deal with people who have respect for those boundaries than those who dont, my focus now is on self respect and better self esteem and if that means that certain people want to opt out of my life… than I wont be begging them to stay.
Awhile ago I had tried to be friends with my xEUM only to find myself continuously hurting because of his ways. I then decided to not be his friend at all. This was quite different for me for I have been able to remain friends with many x’s in the past, but this one in particular I decided I cant. Whether its because I feel so betrayed or hurt still, the fact remains that having him in my life does not ADD to my happiness nor does it make it better. Instead, I find myself feeling anxious, not sure of myself, not good enough, wondering why things happened the way they did etc…. If you are feeling this way than it isnt a healthy relationship and we should be doing everything in our power to move AWAY from these people not trying to figure out a way to get closer. I know the impulse is there (its only human nature) but that has more to do with us than with them. Like NML says, people that have healthy relationship habits WANT and DO move away from these types of men rather than sticking around to see what happens or if things change. I have learned to see things very simply and to go with my gut feeling. If he isnt treating me right or calling me back or doesnt seem as interested as I am, I let it go…. whereas before I would twist myself into a pretzel until I figured out how to make that person change or come towards me more. I now see that as a waste of my time and as my cue to bail out. Not everyone is going to sit us down and tell us that they arent interested or that they just want us when they want us…. we have to figure this out for ourselves and that means paying attention to actions, consistency or lack there of. And if they are lacking in these things, than I would say isnt that proof enough (without having to verbally express it) that we shouldnt be “trying” any harder??? To me, they have said all that has had to be said without even saying a word! Actions speak louder than words and we have to learn to listen to that more than our desire for them to be what we want them to be.

By: De

De — Thu, 21 May 2009 06:56:59 +0000

I’ve been thinking alot recently about my ‘belief’ system, it was getting so many mixed signals I was a ship lost at sea. I had forgotten what a ‘belief’ system was, because I was beleiving everyone else, not me! and when I listened to me it just echoed every one else. I needed to give myself a break really!! So…I have been listening to Louise L hays ‘affirmations’ for self esteem. And to be honest, (this is how I wanted to rewrite my tapes so badly) I have been sleeping with them on loop, the meditation music drifts me off to sleep and I wake in the morning with new messages. I am a wise and wonderful woman, I deserve Good in my life, I stick up for myself, I accept and love myself, I deserve success. Stuff like that. Now I know we aren’t supposed to be brainwashed. But I am obviously supseptable to it so i figure why not do it for my own good, not everyone elses. So I am allowing myself to be brainwashed for the good. I figure, if 45 years of beautiful female images on tv, billboards, magazines etc and the messages we are getting as woman are lterally sending us to the grave with poor self image then *&%$$^, I’ll fight fire with fire. I will give myself all the ammo I need to get strong and healthy and laugh myself with piss and vinegar into my seventies! I’m done being the stupid girl, time to kick some ass! sorry if this has gone off theme, but woke up very strong today with.. ‘SELF BELIEF”.. in the best way. Last night I recieved an email from someone pretty much telling me I was priviliged to do something for them, Blatant manipulation and it made me so mad they would think I was so lame to accept this invitation!, this was after I had already told them I was not availbe on the days they needed me to do them a favor. I felt manipulated and used and angry. Rather than give in and do it and then hate them, I emailed back and told them off! I can’t beleive it, I told them, ‘I sent you an email explaining I could not do it, what don’t you understand about the email!’ I feel great. They sent an email back apologizing to me!! Thank god I’m sticking up for myself and not letting people take advantage or crash my boundaries. Ok, I probably won’t get any more work from this person, but then fine, I’ll be left in peace to work with people who respect my ‘No means No’.
I wanted to share. You can do it, give yourself the right messages, it’s working, ( I’ll let you know if anything changes in the next coupla weeks

peace and fire to warm you heart!

By: Tiffany @ Engagement 101

Tiffany @ Engagement 101 — Wed, 20 May 2009 20:33:52 +0000

And this goes beyond relationships; this can be about everyday acquaintances we let into our lives, too. Whenever there's someone causing me trouble in life, I wonder what am I doing to attract this negative person toward me. Usually the probably is me, not the person. (Well the person is a douchebag, too, but it's my fault for attracting them.) Tiffany @ Engagement 101â€™s last blog post..Engagement 101 and Real Housewivesâ€™ Bethenny gets the skinny on the â€œskinny girlâ€ diet

By: NML

NML — Wed, 20 May 2009 16:37:04 +0000

Hi NYSharon, just wanted to say thanks for explaining. I have to dash off as baby is calling me but have added the questions you raised to list for upcoming posts. NMLâ€™s last blog post..Is it love? Or is it fear, drama and pain?

By: aphrogirl

aphrogirl — Wed, 20 May 2009 12:15:05 +0000

I don’t know why the most awful behavior EUM/ AC commonly brings up feelings that masquerade for love. If you are here you know there is something wrong, and that emans you know what love is. supposed to feel like.

My definition of love includes…respect, communication, honesty and kindness at all times.

Of course, thats the ideal and we all slip, make mistakes, have our moments of not being very loving.

We are human, but, when you have love the difference is in how bad behavior is handled. When it rears its ugly head both parties must work very hard to understand what triggered the bad behavior.
A sincere apology and attempt at righting the wrong must occur from the one who has done the hurting. True forgiveness must then occur from the hurtee. Obviously, the bad behavior cannot keep repeating itself or there is no real work or sincerity. And sadly, if this happens, at that point you must see a repeat offender for who they are – one unable or unwilling to do the work of loving.

What i have come to see is that wanting a man to love you and treat you better is not love.I was guilty of this in my EUM encounter. Wanting a man to come around, to respect you, to treat you better, to work to have a solid relationship…all those things are just want – or maybe desire would be a better word. No matter how strong the wish, the want or desire is, that is not love.

I am starting to think that think the stronger the wish or desire is , that is a clue that you are not in love but are in something else. Love is reciprocal and kind to both parties.

Sianna, a man who cheats repeatedly does not love you in a way you want to be loved. I would argue that you wish he would love you in a way you know is right but that you are not in a loving relationship. And there is nothing to ” love ” about that, and really nothing to want in that either.

I realized that I got involved with an AC / EUM as I was coming off a 30 year relationship with a decent man. The AC was the most horrible thing for my self esteem. I could not understand the pushy pully behavior and as I tried to get him to stop the pushing away, my slef esteeem eroded without me even realizing why.

For the longest time I felt like I had a ” walking wounded” sign hanging over my head and actually was hyper vigilant because I felt my weakness was obvious and and I was like walking prey. I think that is how we sometimes find ourselves in these unhealthy relationships; a weakness can be sensed. It got so band that when I walked my shoulders were hunched over. Many days I was aware of this and worked really hard to fake it, stand up tall, pretend I felt strong.

Three months of NC and I am actually getting my strength back. Reading here, thinking and writing is making me understand what I went through and making me understand how to keep it from happening again.

One thing is for sure, it is better in every way without the drama of an EUM/ AC.

By: sianna j

sianna j — Wed, 20 May 2009 08:39:26 +0000

someone please tell me how to let go of the fear of an ex being w/ and being better for someone else. my ex and i broke up recently (again) b/c he was cheating (again), he has hit me and is basically a very dishonest, manipulative person. when i found out he was w/ this other woman immediately after we broke up, i went into a panic. i am afraid he will be wonderful for her b/c he’s learned what not to do from our relationship and the constant pain he put me through. i can’t bear the thought of him being w/ someone else. the thought of him falling in love w/ someone else makes me feel sick….. literally. any advice would be appreciated.

By: Had Humor without Joy

Had Humor without Joy — Wed, 20 May 2009 03:21:05 +0000

One things that I realized is that you may have to grieve to let go of the idea of pain filled, drama filled relationships. I feel like I have to because although I’ve never been happy in them, they are familiar, I know them so well. Since the main males in my family have varying degrees of EU, having an unreliable man makes sense in a “that’s all I’ve ever known” kind of way. I know that NML and others have talked about this. But I don’t remember anything about the grieving part. And perhaps the grieving is the necessary pain to get past all this crap to better relationships with ourselves and others, including romantic relationships with men.

Again this site has been great to help me let go of my EUM friend without a lot of guilt. In fact when I think of him–though not that much anymore, I think a**hole. Yet I will say I had fun in the beginning, because we did seem to have a lot in common and a strong connection. Oh the other hand, since I had such illusions about him and he lied so much, who knows what really was real. I will own that I had fun and that maybe part of that fun was in my head, but ain’t no telling what was going on with him–then or now. Which is why it’s good that I let him go.

By: Liv

Liv — Wed, 20 May 2009 01:08:10 +0000

NML,

We know what love is NOT, could you write a post on what you see love IS?

Thanks.

By: nysharon

nysharon — Tue, 19 May 2009 21:22:50 +0000

Some very good discussion today, and positive. I too have a deal breaker about phone calls. That is what did my last guy in. He basically said that he didn’t want to feel guilty and wanted to come and go as he pleases but he knew that I wouldn’t go for that. At least this time around I voiced my boundry and had dignity. I like the analygy that Kissie made with the business deal. Make a lot of sense. I just have to stop talking to my friends about it because they convince me I’m being too hard on the guy.

By: Elizabeth

Elizabeth — Tue, 19 May 2009 21:21:26 +0000

To add to my just posted post: I really believed him when he told me he was out of the door, it was just a matter of formality. Hence, in the future: Brad K’s advice – on the one – three years after the ink has dried – will be what I heed. I think that my EUM/AC is just an extremely weak man – who lost his way long ago – and doesn’t have the strength or the will to really address his problems. That is where I got sucked in. Thinking that since he could articulate what he wanted, that he would then know how to proceed rather than just getting stuck.

It is so true: His inertia enabled my inertia, which then reinforced his inertia even more. That is why NC was such a life-saver for me. That is, once I got that NC meant NC.

By: Elizabeth

Elizabeth — Tue, 19 May 2009 21:16:46 +0000

Betteroffwithouthim: Yes, I would give anything to go back to that world, however, I’m not one to live in the past.

What is still really hard for me is that I even let myself go there. That really was a first for me. And, he didn’t send off all sorts of red flags. In some ways, I should feel lucky that I hit the age of 50 without that happening to me. I do spend an inordinate amount of time wondering how my “radar” failed me on this one. I mean, beyond the fact that he was married.

I do not ignore red flags. My gut has served me well, with the exception of this one. And, that is what really sent me into a tail-spin. I still cannot believe how I got sucked into this vortex of blackness, greyness, etc. I think that is now my journey – the lesson learned from this – The minute, no, the second, that any person ever drags me to the grey zone again – I will not go there. I will not. It is why I am just sitting still for right now. No relationship with the opposite sex, in the “relationship” sense. I won’t go there, until the color returns. That is when I know that I will be completely healed.

One other thing that has helped me immensely is the studying of the i-ching and learning the hexagrams. Some real meaningful and purposeful stuff there. The history and how it came to be has life-long lessons for us all.

Again, beauty and color in every day, I will get there.