Sometimes you can find yourself ‘trapped’ in this cycle of doing the same thing over and over again on the basis that in spite of evidence to the contrary, you still believe there to be the possibility of the original reward or ‘big payout’. There are a number of people I correspond with who it doesn’t seem to matter how many times they are disappointed by the same person, when that person gets in touch, they respond and do all manner of things. Then they feel disappointed and vow to do differently but yet the next time the person does the same thing (or variations of it), they will respond in a similar way.
The person calls and asks for something —— >; They spring into action even though they have reservations —>; They think that maybe ‘this time’ it’s for real —–>; They feel validated by receiving the call and doing whatever it was that was asked (they feel needed, valued, more important than someone else they’re involved with etc) —>; The relationship doesn’t materialise —>; They feel despondent —>; They wonder why what they did wasn’t enough —>; They think about how they need to move on and forget this person —->; Some time passes (possibly the same amount of time as usual) —->;The person calls but doesn’t ask for something —— >; They are curious and take the call —–>; They feel validated and hopeful along with other short-term feel good emotions although they no doubt feel cautious —>; They’re afraid to tell them to jog on because what if this time is different? What if this time it’s for real? —>; They sleep together / hang out —->;The relationship doesn’t materialise —>; They feel despondent —>; They wonder why what they did wasn’t enough —>; They think about how they need to move on and forget this person —->; Some time passes (possibly the same amount of time as usual) —->; And…. lather, rinse, repeat.
Now if you’re looking at these as isolated situations, you might think that they were different, but in reality, in this example, one time the person called and asked for something and one time they didn’t ask for anything ‘upfront’ although there is an ‘understanding’, the other party sprung into hopeful action thinking that they would get the ‘big payout’, it didn’t happen (again) and they felt bad afterwards (again).
What’s catching you out in these situations is being hopeful for the ‘big payout’, i.e. the relationship you want or whatever, but being side-tracked by the short-term or even instant high. Sometimes you get sidetracked by your ego. At some point you need to be saying “Er, this ‘reward’ doesn’t exist / it’s not worth it.” At some point you need to opt out of the The Disappointment Cycle that you’re in with the same person. If you stop viewing the situation in the same way that you have previously, you will recognise the pattern of disappointment and learn from the insights gained – you certainly wouldn’t continue responding because that would be insanity – doing the same thing and expecting different results.
If you look at how long you feel good for when the latest cycle first starts and then evaluate how long this lasts for in minutes, hours, days, and weeks, you’d be surprised how you can be putting yourself on the hamster wheel for what may be a matter of minutes. One reader has been doing a ‘cycle’ with her ex for several years for feel good highs of as little as fifteen minutes!
I’ve asked a few people why they keep doing this to themselves and all answers led back to this anticipation of something that’s not actually there but they hope for it to be there because it would make it ‘all’ worthwhile.
When they think about responding differently, they don’t think about not responding at all or saying NO – their idea of not responding is to make them wait a while or to not make it ‘easy’ for them. But what is the point if at the end of the day, it’s going to wind up at the same net result at the end of the cycle? You could add in another few steps, but a person who is hellbent on doing things ‘their way’ will passive aggressively and sometimes aggressively get things to where they want them to be.
If you keep winding up with the same net result from someone, it’s teaching you who they are and their real agenda. Even inconsistent people end up being consistent about being inconsistent with the net feedback to you being Don’t rely on this person.
It’s like when you only hear from that person when they want something. It’s all very well hoping that on the 51st occasion they’ll be different but you have 50 occasions where they haven’t been. They’re a user.
If you look back over an unhealthy relationship, you will see that there’s a ‘cycle’. The time periods may vary a little but you will notice that certain things happen or they do something, you respond, they do something else, you respond, there’s a fallout, and lather, rinse, repeat. I know people whose relationships break down every Christmas and just in time for Valentine’s day. I know of people who ruin every birthday, weekend away and holiday. I know of people who hear from an ex every time they’re in between a relationship. What do you do with these people? Keep hoping each Christmas, Valentine’s etc will be different? Keep being available in between their breakups?
People really do teach you what to expect from them – you could expect differently but that will only set you up for pain especially when they’ve been giving you all the information you need to choose a different course of action. Without them. Listen to your feedback from your experiences and recognise where you’re being sucked into responding to their cues.
They’re just not that different. If you broke down each occasion and plotted it against a calendar as well as did a blow by blow list of moves, you’d be frightened at how damn similar the situations are and each of your responses.
If someone is blowing hot and cold, then you know that when you get hot, cold is coming and vice versa and lather, rinse, repeat. You don’t try to get them to do hot all the time – you recognise that playing switcheroo is their thing and get off the rollercoaster (disappointment cycle) before you throw up your self-esteem or continue to give them time and energy that would be better spent elsewhere.
Your thoughts?
About the Author:
Natalie Lue is the founder and writer of Baggage Reclaim and author of the books Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship and more. Learn more about her here and you can also follow her on Facebook and Twitter - @baggagereclaim .
Natalie (NML) – who has written 1082 posts on Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue.
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We were together for 1,5 months the first time we fought because I was conducting some boundaries (I do think I always tried to maintain them, but looking back that was partly a facade, since I STAYED with him, or kept going back).
Not soon after, the first break up came (initiated by him). After a fight where I tried to make clear he was busting my boundaries. He never came round but always started to contact me again. Never said sorry *of course* and INVENTED good behaviour from his part. He actualy said that he always came by my door to make up and say he was sorry. The times I stood there with my mouth falling open at so much selfdelusion, I used to say *or mumble really* ‘but but but, you didn’t!!’
He probably ment that ONE time where he busted my front door at 4 am in the morning, drunk and stood by my bed.
I didn’t took them as lies, because he believed his own delusions so firmly and I was so confused by him, but if it DIDN’T happen, then they are lies. Pure and simple.
This happened for a period of 3 years, every 3 months or so.
After that first 1,5 month I became 30 that week. A milestone yay! Since he acted up only days or hours before an event and I tried to defend my ground no matter what, I celebrated alone. (notice that he always had something to do, a place he could go to, fallback YES fallback friends, because that’s what they are. It’s not that I didn’t have friends, I was just too damn STRUCK to want to see anybody at a moment like that)
Christmas and new years that year: alone.
Next year: birthday. Yip, had a fight: I was alone.
Last year’s birthday? I don’t have to ask you for the answer. Aswell as this year.
We’ve been NC for almost 3 months now.
His birthday is coming up this week.
I made some very fun plans to do.
No chance in h*ll am I going to think of somebody who let me celebrate the day I was born ALONE for 3 whole years.
Or ever again for that matter.
My grieve has turned into REAL anger and REAL aversion for this person *I spitted* for the very very first time throughout all these years, I know I’ll get over that aswel, but for the moment it serves its purpose. NEVER will I let somebody take away moments that are important in MY life. Ever again! The cycle is broken for sure. Forevermore
Good girl Sofie
I’m at the anger stage too and this is one of the reasons why we fell out – he had promised to be at my 30th and let me down, only made worse by the fact that according to him I made his birthday yet he couldn’t be arsed with mine. Well screw ‘em babe xx
exactly, why in heaven’s name bother about somebody’s birthday when they dragged you through hell and all they could think of at the time aswel as now is their massive selfinflated ego being hurt.
They don’t care if you sent them wishes. They pack ‘em with the rest, of probably other selfdeluding girls they have in their backpack.
They care if you don’t. Not becàuse of you. But because of the lack of attention. Or the fact that somebody dislikes ‘em that much that even an empathic person won’t go to the trouble anymore of wishing them well on Their Day. They know we are caring women. They know because they chose us for that very reason.
They’ll be waiting for a sign on their birthday, with a cookie in one hand and the remote in their other, firmy relaxt. Don’t give it to them.
Indeed Jemma hun, screw ‘em! x
I love the anger stage.
hi Revolution,
the anger stage, for me, is an important stage.
dunno why, I just do it, it’s funny yes, but vicious mocking isn’t)
I used to get angry and feel helpless in the same time.
My anger used to be mocked by him, in that way that he ridiculed the way I talked (I’m a dutch speaking person but for some reason when I get angry I use a lot of english
or he would bring up personal stuff of me that had nothing to do with the issue we were fighting about. In hindsight, soooo childish. He said in times like those, ‘I’m like an animal in a cage at a moment like that and I’ll use anything to ‘defend’ myself, I can’t help it’
Yes you can, you’re an adult. Or wait a minute, no you’re not! That’s the problem. You’re not some animal in a cage, you’re a Big Baby!
I have been so calm these last 3 months, and I still am, but I’m allowing myself to get réally angry. Like venom that has to come out. Doesn’t frustrate me though, it feels liberating.
Hi Sofie,
I’m sorry to hear that you were mocked by this overgrown baby. My ex used to do things to rile me up on purpose (which, I’ll admit, isn’t hard sometimes) because he loved to see my “hot Italian-bloodedness”. Turned him on. Until I used it to smack him down when he went too far. Then he tried to play a “Father Knows Best” on me (he was 9 years older) and chastise me. I wouldn’t have it.
Yes, I’ll admit that I need to tame myself sometimes. But I truly believe that the tiger stays in the cage when a guy is civil and respectful. After all, I have no problem being kind, calm, loving, mild, and gracious with men who don’t pull that shite on me.
So yeah, anger is liberating sometimes. Even the Bible states, “Be wrathful, but do not sin.” In other words, anger can be righteous when it is in view of unrighteous behavior. You are right to let it leave your body, as it IS venom that would poison us if we didn’t.
So, in conclusion: Should we feel anger? HELL YES. Should we dwell on it forever and let it lead us to angry/vengeful actions? No.
Revolution,
)
I’m glad I got a *sort of* conversation with you here because when I read your comments and how you experience things I feel the same a LOT. Like for instance, my ex was exactly 9 years older too (not that I’m referring to that similarity only
You sometimes speak -either specifically or more often not specifically- of feeling, or being, very outgoing on the one hand but being very vulnarable and insecure about that on the other. And I feel a lot like how you describe yourself in your comments.
But what I DO know is, that however loud or outgoing or harsh I may sound to certain people, (and these days I accept myself for who I am and I will never go back again, I’ve learned to accept and love myself for it little by little) I always remain to have respect for other people’s integrity. When somebody falls out with me or me with them, I will NOT throw their issues in their face to justify myself. Even if that person was my ex who did a number of precious little acts (like reading ALL of my journals from when I was 14 up until the recent ones because I moved out and he had access and has ever since been throwing MY personal information in my face with the remark ‘if I had known that stuff I wouldn’t have started a relationship with you’. It has been extremely difficult to overcome that, it was like being put down by family, school, bullies all over again, like I had no right to feel angry frustrated and furious about stuff in my life he had no business with, and that’s how I felt initially, but I have overcome this. To the extent that I am proud that at least I use a journal to write of my frustration and anger and not USE it to hurt those very people I write about, and I have been thàt clever since I was 14. He is ‘soooo’ much older and hasn’t come that far yet. So, who’s loss right? Anyways, (I sometimes found it hard to express myself in the right way in another language) I don’t want to dwell on another subject that this particular article of Nathalie, but I did want to say this to you. I always read your comments, I support everybody here, but feel very connected to you
And also, anger is an energy, if you use it wisely. And that’s one of the things this relationship has taught me. Do not let anger rule your life, learn to process it, but first FEEL it and acknowledge it and work with it. It càn become a good thing. It has for me.
Hi dear Sofie,
First, your English is near perfect.
Second, thank you for relating to me so closely. Though I don’t know if that bodes well for you, dear.
It’s been a hell of a rocky road with this personality of mine. I hope it’s smoother for you. Sometimes I feel like the snorting mustang here on BR, while the beautiful strong thoroughbreds like Grace and Runnergirl are just like, “Yes, yes, calm yourself, dear. We’ll get there in the end,” as they trot past me while I waste my energy bucking. 
Third, the fact that your AC read your journals (!!) is unconscionable. The fact that he went behind your back and read your personal thoughts and then used them against you (again, !!) further disqualifies him as being moral judge over your character. What a dipshit.
(As a side note, though: It fascinates me that your AC would read your journals. I, too, have journals that date back all the way from 13 years old and I doubt that my ex-AC would give a flying f*ck enough to read them.)
hi Revolution,
no haha, it definitly hasn’t been smoother, far from it. I get the ‘people are intimidated by you’ remark so often I got extremely insecure about it. People trying to give me ‘tips & tricks’ to communicate differently,(and I do appreciate them)but sometimes it’s because they can’t handle somebody who doesn’t dance around a fountain to make something clear. But you can’t force nature. I can not be quiet and introvert and be dancing around no fountain. I feel icky when I try, and insincere. I feel like I’m pulling strings on people when I don’t speak my mind. I don’t think beautiful people like Grace and Runnergirl are that more gentlier than you are though Revolution, I get your messages of care and your sincere concern about others aswel as yourself just as clearly as I do theirs and I read both your comments with a big appetite. Different package, same message
About my AC reading my journals, trust me big time, he could’ve read those and be proud of me, for the very reason that I have taken things and people serious enough to want right about it and try to put it in perspective, from an early age on, to get rid of frustration and anger that way (and really, who uses a journal to be all lovely dovely in ALL of the time, who are they fooling?) He read those to get black and white proof for himself and everybody for that matter, but above all for me, that I was the ‘bad’ one, I had the personality disorders, he told me based on my journals, that I had deserved to be cheated upon by my previous LTR’s, that my best friend would eventually see me like he does ‘now’ and even my parents wouldn’t love me if they knew me like he did.
All the while I haven’t killed one fly with my journals, not even by smashing them into corners out of sadness. They have been with me all my life, and are very very important to me. (naturally right? I think so)
Although I could see, that only a very sad little boy would say and use things like that, only a sad sad sad man would try to tell somebody is not worthy of the love of their parents, (I have a very good relationship with my parents after years of alcohol abuse of my father who is now sober since 6 years and we get a long perfectly now) still I can not forgive him. I don’t think I ever will. I know the anger will fade. But I will never forget. He made me feel bad about every little aspect and fiber of my being, and it has been a road to hell and back to recover. But one thing though, I hàd to face all these insecurities because of it. Because out there was somebody, who would use any trick in the black book to hurt me, and I hàve to learn to trust myself so I can not fall in the same trap. Still working on it, but feeling much much better. Thanks for letting me rant and listening or reading. I absolutely love zen-like and soft people, but I sure as hell love the mustangs too, in a way they relax me more than introverts. Personal flavor of course.
Sofie,
That is a broken, miserable man you speak of. Anyone working THAT hard to make you the problem and create doubts in your mind about yourself and those you love is NOT coming from a happy place. Leave him to his misery. I daresay even pity him. But pick up and move on. Don’t take anything he piled on you (emotionally) with you. It doesn’t belong to you anyways. Those who love you, love you. He doesn’t have that, and he’s envious. Let’s pray that someday he finds a way not to bite the hand that feeds him.
Glad to “know” you here on BR, Sofie. Stay strong, and thanks for the words of encouragement from one “mustang” to another.
I feel as though we had the exact same relationship except I was with my ex for 6 years which isnt something to brag about. As of today I have been 73 days no contact except yesterday i went to the gas station and saw him mind you he was in the car with a friend I didnt know it was him until I pulled up and as soon as he saw me he put his hand over his head like he was scratching it so I couldnt see his face. In my mind I was very hurt because here I havent spoke to you in months and just happen to run into you and you put your hand over your face in hopes that i didnt see you. Needless to say I just pulled out of the gas station and kept going there was no point in making it worse. Why would he do that?
Hopeful, that would have hurt. Perhaps he was feeling ashamed at the way he had treated you and didn’t want to face it or maybe he thought you were angry with him and was trying to avoid a potential confrontation? Perhaps he realises that he is a shallow, disrespectful person and didn’t want to see that reflected in your eyes. I’m sure my ex would try to hide from me too. Cowards. You did the best thing by driving away, keep driving xx
Thank you for your response. That is one thing he always was was a coward when anything difficult happened or was being talked about he would leave because he didn’t want to deal. I definitely have work to do because my initial response was “what did I do” because I couldn’t understand why he would do that.
Hi ladies. The posts here and your comments are all helping me go through a very difficult time now. After taking back Mr. Unavailable after leaving me for a few weeks due to a “moment of confusion” (his ex with whom he has no closure suddenly arrived in his life again and he was confused for a while)…After giving him a second chance and try to make things work out with him, he has again left me to “find himself”. He said he gave it a try but I was to hung up on our past with what happened, that I was not giving him room to breathe. He has since left me again, on my own once again, trying to piece everything back together, to get my life back. How do you start over when you’ve given your heart, body and soul to someone who can just leave like that?
The posts here are making me realize it is not my fault why he left. He has issues to be given with and if I have only heeded the warnings and noticed the red flags, I will not be suffering as I am now.
This is just what I needed to read right now…After 10 months this is getting to be a cycle with a ‘Mr Unavailable’…. from now on FLUSH!!
I’ve been in that cycle many times. The worst was with an abuser for four years, where he would push me away until I’d leave and then would stalk me until I let him back in. It was a force cycle on his part, and a desperate for validation cycle on my part. I almost lost myself. It’s been two years since I got out and I no longer hurt over this man, but I’m still rebuilding myself. If this had never happened with him though, I might still be rolling along blind in my own life. It was my wake up call, and I needed it (sadly). It sucks it had to be four years, and that I needed such a degrading experience to wake me up. I grew up watching dysfunction unfold like a circus show as a child, so I really had NO IDEA what love meant, what it looked like or how to find it. I thought someone coming back, no matter how horribly they treated me meant they cared. I was like an abused dog hiding under the table desperate for any scraps that got dropped. The scraps became survival to me, even though I was starving. You become less picky when feel you’re starving. I’ve had two relationships since, both failed, but at least they didn’t limp along tattered and broken so we could both find ‘fifteen’ minutes of bliss here and there. I know happiness in my life involves me feeding myself, properly, not waiting for table scraps someone might drop. I get lonely, but my heart is not bleeding all over the place anymore. The loneliness scares me sometimes. I am not content with it, and not happy, but being in a dysfunctional relationship as a cure is not an option for me anymore. That’s progress for me, to not let myself settle just to fill the void. In this rebuilding, I’ve gained and lost. I’ve gained a sense of self, and some vision, but I’ve lost people in my life. These people had to go, they were friendships and old loves that were based on my old complete doormat approach. So, I sit in this new place, lonely but not living off crumbs. I am making an effort to get out of this zone though, even though it feels safe hiding here. Loneliness is not an acceptable replacement for desperate. Rebuilding means coming out of old comfort zones but moving FORWARD into new unknowns, which can be uncomfortable too, because of fear. The old saying that courage is acting in the face of fear is so true.
Wow Selkie, I’m moved by your comment and your amazing progress. I did the abusive (emotional) force cycle (perfect term)for a year and it was truly scary. I got to this point too: “I thought someone coming back, no matter how horribly they treated me meant they cared. I was like an abused dog hiding under the table desperate for any scraps that got dropped”. That’s low and I’ve been there too. Being in a dysfunctional “relationship” (we need a need word) is NOT a cure and NOT an option for me anymore either. It does get lonely. I feel that loneliness too. For me, the pain of being in dysfunctional dynamics from friendships, to family issues, to males has finally outweighed the loneliness. It’s up to us to heal and move forward. Your comment is amazing girl. It builds on Nat’s post beautifully and is so empowering. Thank you Natalie and Selkie. I’ve been moving forward into the unknown with my BR bags fully packed filled with boundaries, values, and even a little bit of self-esteem. It’s a lot less scary with my childhood baggage semi unloaded and re-filled with the aforementioned. I’ve adapted the hokey cokey: One childhood issue out, one boundary in.
Runnergirl,
I find your posts just as inspiring. I am watching you put all your BR knowledge into action and learning through you what it looks like. You sharing your recent dating experiences is so helpful, your resolve is encouraging and contagious. It’s like, ‘If Runner can do it, then maybe I can too.’
So, this healing, it’s like the time after a huge storm. You aren’t in panic ‘survival’ mode anymore, but the wreckage around you is visible. You have to get up and rebuild, one nail at a time. It’s up to us. It’s a process, for sure as we are finding out, but oh so much better than consistently getting walked on, then signing up for more.
I know your story all too well because that was mine for 6 years. When Natalie speaks about excepting crumbs as a relationship I think I had become an expert at that. I have been 73 days no contact and although that makes me happy I saw him yesterday for the first time at a gas station and when he saw me he literally put his hand over his face like he was scratching his head as in hopes that i didnt see him. Mind you I simply left the gas station and kept driving. i was actually very hurt becasue I didnt understand why would he do this when I havent spoke to you in months. I just dont understand. can anyone help me understand why he would have done that?
Hopeful,
biologicaly: it’s an gesture of feeling shame.
In our modern society it’s an gesture of cowardy.
Selkie, I really felt what you said. It was very emotional for me, going through your comment. I am inspired by how you are trying to rebuild yourself. By not settling with crumbs and accepting that sometimes, people need to go. I needed to read that – I myself am going through a tough time right now with a guy I thought was the one but whom now I realize was a very unemotional, disconnected man who has more issues than Vogue. This is a blessing in disguise, what has happened, otherwise I will still be stuck in a one-way relationship that has no future, that was squeezing my self esteem out of me.
I had a good shout in the fields today with the dog , called him all the names under the sun , no i wont be going on the cycle again got rid of some of anger
Lainey, I think you make a good point that some men go for the women that make them feel a certain way. Men: I like you so much right now. Women: I’ll love you so much 10 years from now. The down side of this situation is that you’re his midnight you’re-my-dream-woman & 6am you’re-still-here? This is a good thought. But I also had another thought after being dumped for the baby momma who cheated on him & gave him 2 std’s: Men love *itches. W or B, take your pick. You love him & take care of his every last need, you’re a sucker. Spit in his face, ruin his credit, & sleep with his best friend, you’re misunderstood & he needs to save you. For real?
“If you look back over an unhealthy relationship, you will see that there’s a ‘cycle’. The time periods may vary a little but you will notice that certain things happen or they do something, you respond, they do something else, you respond, there’s a fallout, and lather, rinse, repeat….I know of people who hear from an ex every time they’re in between a relationship.”
Yup. I think most people recognize the pattern, we don’t always want to see it for what it is. I made the mistake once of calling a guy out for his consistently inconsistent behavior and he told me that I was wrong. Even tried to flip it on me with the whole “the phone works both ways” thing, the phone only works two ways if the other party actually picks it up or calls you back…I had known him for years so I was actually able to give him like 5 or 6 different examples, yet I was wrong according to him. He didn’t only show up when he was between girls and he didn’t pick fights or get angry so he could disappear without warning and feel justified, all according to him at least. The last time he disappeared was the last time, he got angry over something that no sane person would ever get angry about. And like a fool I went back and tried to smooth the situation over, good thing for me he wasn’t being reasonable cause then I never would have gotten off that roller coaster of foolishness. I don’t deal with him anymore, but I know what happened. Sometimes the best thing a guy/girl can do for you is be exactly who they are. I used to spend hours upon hours trying to dissect his brain, tried to figure out which screws I could tighten back up. But to be honest, I really had no idea nor do I care at all anymore. The last time he cut out was the last time, so he’s not my problem anymore. Time really does heal all wounds…
UK girl,
, I told them I wasn’t ready to talk yet, still processing – and feeling numb and dejected too. But I had to contemplate and let things filter a bit before I could talk. Then I opened up to a good friend who instantly understood as she’d been through something similar…that helped loads! So, I was also fortunate that I had someone there who understood and that can make all the difference in the world as she was able to help me put things in perspective and said similar things to what’s being said on this site. I’m still processing, that’s why I’m still here, but I’m no longer in pain over it. The breakup started a month ago, and came to a head 2 weeks ago with me forcing him to ‘fess up’ and him ‘having’ to go NC. I am no longer full of regrets about this ‘relationship’, in fact it needed to happen to cause me to have another look at ME and make changes to how feel about myself and why I consistently allow myself to be ‘downgraded’ and taken for granted. It does stem to my parents modelling, but I’m not going to wallow in self pity over it, I’m going to learn from it and make the most of what I’ve learned, I know that’s the only way to get the relationship for real that was presented to me in fantasy – it opened my eyes to what I DID want, it’s just not going to happen with an EUM, AC or MM, I just have to be smarter and wiser and keep my eyes open to not fall into their traps. I have gained soooo much insight into relationships from these blogs and posts I can’t begin to express. I just know that I am going to take from it what it was created for and find me a ‘good one’. So remember, he was smoke and mirrors reflecting back to you the attention and intimacy you crave while blowing smoke up your butt. He’s done you a favour and awakened that part of you, it’s now your job to find someone who will actually give it to you.
I hear you babe, the fed up and sad is part of it unfortunately. I took alot of long baths and drank alot of chamomile tea, and that made me at least feel calm enough to let things process while reading this blog and everyone’s posts for almost 2 weeks straight. I had friends ask what was going on in the beginning of this as they started to notice I wasn’t the same and losing weight (I’ve lost the extra 2 stone that I was carrying around since a knee injury – I’m not unhappy about that
You can do it, it IS in you…leave loser on the floor where he belongs and keep your head up!
XO Jewells
Darling Jewells
Thank you for taking the time to write to me, you seem very strong considering your break up was so recent, well done you x
Uk Girl,
I am only so strong because I went through the pain, I was devastated, then despondant, stayed in bed for most of a week, I left the house only to go to work (at that, only part time and casual as timing would have as my work sometimes is as I am freelance), I read the ‘girl with the dragon tattoo’ trilogy, this blog, drank chamomile tea, took lots of long baths and cried and let the feelings run their course, and then when I was ready, began to open up to close friends and found understanding allies (to some I couldn’t divulge his name, my guy friends would probably DO something, and that’s in no one’s best interest). I have allowed myself the indulgence of going through the process completely to see where it takes me, and where I find myself is in a much stronger position and sense of self than I had even BEFORE I met my MM EUM (jury is out on AC as I thought he might be, but as I process, I ponder that one still). So, I’m coming to a place where I do not regret the ‘relationship’ but have gained much from it and what it did to wake me up, find this blog, bring me closer to my friends and accept myself more fully. BTW if my EUM was to show up on my doorstep tomorrow hat in hand….I would close the door in his face. He’s a prolific liar and I couldn’t trust him as far as I could throw him…
Jewells, The jury’s still out on whether he’s an AC?!! Prolific liar to both you and his wife on whom he was cheating? Wow! If that doesn’t define an AC, I don’t know what does…
This is at the core of why I refer to my ex as an AC. Doesn’t even matter that my ex did get divorced and I lived with him as his gf. Cheating and lying are top line and bottom line info telling you someone is an AC. End of.
Hey FX,
Well, I’ve been doing alot more reading and processing and indeed, I do now see him as AC. I read a site on abuse, and saw many psychological tools he used on me also in the FF/FF, grooming, outrageous behavior, veiled threats. Yes, AC all the way. I think I may be over it all now as I’m starting to really see the patheticness of him. I was in two minds about the fact that I made him expose himself and that I’ve been exposing him myself to, in a way, forwarn any women in my circle about him. But I realize that was just based on my own self doubts, low self esteem, left over ‘floing’or protecting him. I see more and more that it was the perfect thing to do, it got him in counselling with his wife, forced him to not be able to contact me and mess with my head anymore (I’m certain if I’d just left quietly, he would have remained ‘friends’ and continued to mind f*** with me. So, my knee jerk reaction was correct, my anger protected me from future abuse. Now I’m on the journey of true self introspection and life is looking rosier everyday
Did this ever come at the right moment. It’s almost like I was meant to see this. I just literally changed my cell phone number this afternoon to help stop this cycle. I have tried to tell the ass clown to stop contacting me, only to have him stop and start..and stop and start..blow hot and cold etc and of course, like above, I thought that “this time” it would be different. Maybe this time he really does miss me or care for me the way I wish he would. Frankly, why the EFF would I want this guy to care for me when he doesn’t have much self-respect for himself. I’ve gone days without checking my phone, my way of preventing me from sending a text message response or even to start a conversation. I know most is my own ego needing validation as well and this whole thing has done nothing but turned me into a person I don’t like very much, and haven’t for the past 12 weeks. I wasted 3 months on this and I don’t want to waste another day. He’s drained me emotionally and physically. He is also a high school boyfriend from grade 9 (we are both now in our 40′s) and he was my first love. I’m wondering if I was just trying to “recapture” something from high school, sort of like out of the movies except that this is definitely not a movie ending!! He is not going to change and he is not going to suddenly want me for more than the occasional shag and ego stroke that he has been getting from me. It’s amazing how easy it is to fall into this trap however and I sympathize with everyone who’s going through this as well, as it’s not easy to cut ties. I hope I can start a new day with a new positive outlook and move on from this experience!
Andrea, Natalie has some great posts on this blog and in her books and fabulous insights on the “returning childhood sweethearts”. You aren’t the only one to get duped by this phenomenon. You summed it up: “I thought that “this time” it would be different. Maybe this time he really does miss me or care for me the way I wish he would”. That’s precisely what fueled my continued entanglement in the disappointment cycle. Nat’s diagrams are stuck permanently in my head.
PS. Last summer, I heard from a returning childhood sweetheart who was married with 3 little kids and because I’d read Nat’s stuff, I managed to dodge that bullet. You can dodge the bullet too and break the disappointment loop. Otherwise, you’ll end up as shiny scrubbed as I am from lathering, rinsing, repeating. Folks say I look great. I think it’s cos I’m scrubbed so clean from my past, pun intended.
Thank you Runnergirl for your insight! I have bought Natalie’s book, it is great. I’ve been in this cycle with a couple of men in the past and why I always think that there will be a different result, I don’t know. I especially love the comment “when he blows hot..be prepared the cold is coming” and it’s SO true! I am glad you managed to dodge your high school sweetheart bullet. Thanks again.
I have been doing this for four years! I know I am doing it…I see the flaws I don’t even have the expectation of something else happening, I live for the highs knowing full well that they will be followed by lows. I am not very good at flirting or meeting men and he just gives me that boost to get through life. I don’t know how to end it and I know for sure I am afraid to, almost 25 and only ever been with one man…I am terrified that this is it, the best I can hope for, that fear keeps me from opting out. I don’t love him but I cant seem to give him up. I am currently unemployed, just finished a masters so I cant really afford much self indulgence in self esteem growth, if anyone can offer some free advice on here I would appreciate it.
Caught,
I think you’ve given yourself a lot of support right there in your email. See it? You see the problems, the obstacles, and what solution you need to achieve. Therefore it IS within you to take courage and leave him and start afresh.
Your situation with studying, being unemployed, and being skint (‘poor’) is hard enough. You don’t need Mr Downer making your situation worse, yet that’s exactly what he’s doing. He’s weighting you down and draining you of time and energy. Opt out.
You’re attending COLLEGE my friend! So you are in a HOTBED of eligible single males! Get cracking, I say. Don’t study alone in your room/house — do all your reading in canteens, coffee shops, laundromat, the library, any common areas, and then make a pledge to yourself that you’ll speak at least FIVE words to the person nearest you. Even “Excuse me, but is anyone sitting here?” will do. You can even do a drive by — as you pick up your book to leave, just say “Excuse me, but I really like your watch. It’s very cool.” as you’re starting to walk away. He’ll at least say ‘what, oh thanks’ and may say something else to you the next moment — if not, you’ve just paid him a compliment and made your escape, but if so, you’ve got a conversation! No bravery required, just good manners. And every time you do it, it’ll get easier and easier.
Putting the focus on other men and getting a nice response from them will boost your self confidence enormously. It will help you to feel stable enough to disengage from Mr Downer.
Caught, first of all, you are NOT caught. You are only 25. You have so much before you and you don’t have to settle for this guy’s crumbs. Trust me and everyone, this is NOT it. Face the fear because it is not grounded in reality. If you don’t love him (great insight), don’t hang in the disappointment cycle for fear that there is nothing else out there. There is. It is you. Self indulgence and self-esteem doesn’t cost money. It takes work. Congratulations on finishing your masters. That is fabulous and took work (and money) so you can break the cycle with the guy. Sweetie, I’m 53 and barely out of the woods with regards to the disappointment cycle with men. I have a 23 yro daughter who may be in the same lather, rinse repeat cycle with men. I wish I could tell her just flush. If they don’t treat you with love, trust, and respect, flush. So if it is any consolation, even at 53 there are plenty of guys. Self-esteem doesn’t cost money otherwise we’d all be buying some. It costs work and you are well on your way. If Nat would allow it, I’d like to sponsor you in her next self-esteem workshop.
PS. Natalie, can you set up sponsors in your e-courses? We do it in public education and call it scholarships. I’d be willing do donate to a baggage reclaim scholarship fund. I’m thinking maybe some others may be willing to donate as well? Your insights, advice, and guidance are brilliant and I’d love to give the opportunity to others and support you as well. The self-esteem e-course has been invaluable to me…but what if others can’t afford it even though it is so reasonably priced? Just thinking aloud? Count me in for the first baggage reclaim scholarship fund,if it can be arranged. You are one amazing lady and need to be compensated. Let’s do this!
I second runnergirl. I’d be willing to contribute to a “Baggage Reclaim” scholarship fund for the self-esteem course.
I’d be up for that too. What a fab idea
I would donate. This is an excellent idea.
What a lovely idea! Me too! I’d like to contribute!
you are so kind! thanks for all the positive thoughts and insight.
Caught
You are 24 years old. This is not the man you will marry. Don’t wait to feel better before leaving him. You won’t feel better until you do. All of us, your age, younger, older, much older (ahem) have not known how to leave or “couldn’t”. But most of us have and not one of us regrets it. We don’t enjoy the transition period, or the mourning but, like childbirth, it’s worth it. And yes you do forget the pain. You do.
He’s like a big ball and chain. Get rid of it and you’ll be surprised what you can do.
Oh, I just got a good analogy story…I bought a brad nailer so I could finish the renos on my place: the box says ‘comes with bonus kit’…I just opened the box – no bonus kit
I think this is indicative of AC’s an EUM’s…they make promises that they won’t deliver on…don’t emotionally invest until you’ve opened the box!
Jewells, haha (sorry in the same time)
‘no bonus kit’!
Yes.
You meet a man and you think, oh but this is just the tip of the iceberg. Much good will be underneeth this initial (often) awkward feeling you get, a mix of excitement (because of your hopes) and anxiety because your subconscious does read the red flags.
You’re sailing on this proud and beautiful big ship of hope, looking at an iceberg and go ‘waw’.
Little do you know that only days later you’re on the Titanic.
Your choice if you’ll be the violinplayer that continues no matter what or if you’re going to take the FIRST lifeboat
I got so excited that I answered an analogy with my own version. Still laughing at the bonus kit though!
forgot to mention it was an ‘attachment’ bonus kit
And your analogy is perfect
Great analogy both of you! Makes the ‘lesson’ all the more memorable. Good to read this at this time…Im trying to get out and open up to new guys etc, and there is this one in particular who caught my attention. A lot of good and exciting but also a few flagable things….Id just be looking for a short fling as Im moving away in 5 weeks…so I was questioning whether I should ignore the flag-ables and ‘see what happens’ anyway…. now I’m thinking I should just flush though. may not be worth it even in the short term. And I guess its easy to forget that short term things can have long term consequences (ie emotionally, etc). In all reality Im far too busy at the moment for a new guy anyways…:/
Well Al, if you are looking for a 5 week no strings fling…I think that may be a flag to a guy who’s looking for a relationship. If you can go in with no expectations and just have fun for the now, great, go for it! The hurt comes with the attachment and expectations of a relationship, so barring that, why not sow your wild oats too? Be sure and tell him that you’re gone in five weeks just to do your due diligence for him.
Thanks everyone for the advice and good thoughts, this was really helpful in so many ways. good luck to everyone on their own journey’s and I will keep an eye out for the scholarship programs as they develop and one day I can give back as well.
To all the early commenters contemplating saying Happy B-Day to their AC/EUM ex…don’t, don’t, don’t. Step away from the phone/birthday card/door slowly.
It was so hard for me especially this year because it was not only my ex’s birthday, but the same day as what would’ve been our 2 year anniversary (had the relationship lasted, which it didn’t. Fell a few months short). A few months before my decision to go NC on him, I FB messaged him Happy Birthday and got some “thanks” back. I asked him in casual convo if he was doing anything special and no response….a few days later, I saw pictures pop on my news feed of a birthday celebration he had with his friends and his NOW present girlfriend. Boy did that sting…since he never sent me any invite to that celebration at all EVEN THOUGH HE WANTED US TO “REMAIN FRIENDS.” Nothing. And we had only broken up recently. HE SPENT WHAT WOULD’VE BEEN OUR ANNIVERSARY WITH THE GIRL WHO WOULD BECOME HIS GF.
Never again will I do that with an ex. They are NOT worth it. THEIR birth is not something to celebrate, especially if they caused you a ton of pain/stress.
Ladies if you feel you need something to do on HIS birthday, go treat yourself to a massage at a spa, buy yourself some chocolates, go out dancing in a club, and celebrate your life instead. Their part in your life is over, they’re probably going to spend it with someone else and they haven’t changed.
Beautifuldreamer, so glad of your warning to ‘Step away from the birthday card’ lol. The l’users birthday is on Halloween and your warning woke up my auto pilot insanity of thinking about sending a card. No way in hell was I going to send him a gift-at least I overcame the thought of that this year.
Excellent idea so yes in celebration of his birthday I’m doing something nice for ME instead-will think of something nice to look forward to. I’m finally beginning to like me much more than him.
Thanks for your great solution!
That had to be really hard to experience! But I know that looking back on it you can see your mistake. The mistake was in contacting him because as soon as you did it became more about you inviting the pain back into your life and victimizing yourself than it was about him doing something to you.
For instance, you said that you messaged him on Facebook but if you defriended him then you wouldn’t have been able to contact him nor would you have been able to see the news feed! Then, when you did say “happy birthday” you went further and initiated more conversation by asking him if he was doing anything – when if you think about it, was either inviting information that you wouldn’t be able to handle emotionally or giving him an opportunity to lie to you (even if that lie was meant to spare your feelings). Looks like he did the latter.
Lastly you mentioned something about how he wanted you to remain friends. When you’re walking away from somebody, it’s not about what THEY want – it’s about what you decide and that decision should always be based upon what promotes your own well-being and healing. So even if HE wanted to be friends it shouldn’t have mattered. When you can honestly say that no matter what HE feels is relevant, that’s the first step in putting yourself first and becoming immune to whatever power the guy has over you. Any contact – no matter how big or small is just another excuse to hold on to a part of him.
I know this because I’ve been there and I’ve watched several of my girlfriend to the same thing. They’ve always had an excuse as to why they were contacting the guy. It always seemed justified to them until they said it out loud and I could see it in their eyes that they knew that it was just an excuse. Weaning ourselves from them is almost synonymous with going through substance abuse rehab. I’m convinced that just like a crack addict is addicted to cocaine, women can be addicted to the dopamine response that floods our brains when we are emotionally attached to someone else. Until we learn to avoid every encounter possible or prepare ourselves for what a setback looks like so that we can avoidthat as well, we can do nothing else but expect hurt like this.
I know you said that you’ve learned from your mistakes but the reason why I’m bringing this up is because I wouldn’t want people to think that the reason why this encounter went wrong was because he was being mean or selfish. Basically it went wrong is because you expected something that you didn’t get and invited it (whatever negative thing happened in your relationship) back into your life. Meanwhile, he’s not thinking about the relationship anymore and he’s gone on with his life and frankly you deserve to have that same option – to go on without him. So basically, the reason why there should be no contact with the other person is because to contact them is to invite pain back into one’s life. Thank God you’ve learned that lesson and I hope that many other women do the same!
Caydence – I appreciate your insight but I disagree on some points. I believe everyone should assume responsibility for cutting off contact with their AC/EUM. However, I think it’s a misconception to think that the other person’s actions has nothing to do with how the event turned out. AC/EUM’s usually engage in mean/selfish actions—the mean/selfish action was my ex who constantly would attempt to lure me into friendship despite the fact that I told him I wasn’t comfortable.
Ultimately, it WAS my choice to let him in the door – I should’ve kept the door shut TIGHT and I take full responsibility for that! But I didn’t and that IS my fault—however, I am NOT going to let him off the hook because he moved on with his life and I should’ve “done the same.” It just doesn’t work like that. It was a two-year relationship, and as someone who hadn’t even heard of BR, let alone AC’s or EUM’s, I had no vocabulary to apply to this situation or insight into how to behave. I only had my conflicting instincts, my guilt, my emotions, and I sympathize with anyone going through this because IT WILL TAKE TIME to get to this point. If you are like me, you will have a hard time letting go. And that’s OK. It will take a few falls (as it did for Natalie Lue herself) to get to that point where you love yourself enough to let go.
That DOESN’T MEAN that the EUM/AC is totally absolved of every responsibility to act with respect, decency and kindness. When they fail to live up to that responsibility, I WILL not take the heat for that.
I will only take responsibility for my own actions – not enforcing my boundaries. But I will not blame myself for someone else’s bad behavior, NOR will I dismiss it as “MY” bad behavior. That’s on them, and they are not innocent in this ordeal – I am sure you didn’t mean to say that they are, but it sounded a bit like that.
What I omitted from this incident was that he had messaged me earlier asking me “how I was.” I had every choice not to respond, and for weeks I didn’t. However, I felt bad that he was asking me how I was and decided to wish him a happy birthday. A bad mistake on my part. I didn’t have to take his “how are you” as an invitation to wish him happy birthday, but I did.
What I am saying is, while I may have unwittingly victimized myself, I wasn’t trying to PLAY the victim. I was acting out of guilt and conflicting feelings. Also, that does NOT make him any less mean or selfish. He IS mean and selfish for the way he handled our breakup (over phone call, no less), for not communicating with me, and for being a total AC at the end of the road.
Also, I forgot to mention. I do not buy into the “spare peoples’
feelings” bit being nice. I think it’s a load of B.S. and my ex did
that to me when he claimed he had been wanting to break up but was
trying to “spare me” until after I graduated (load of crap—he was just
waiting until he felt ready to leave. I had wanted to break up with
multiple times but didn’t because he always begged for me to stay and
I felt guilty—AND I thought things were improving in the relationship
and WAS SO WILLING TO WORK ON IT AND INVEST TIME IN TO IT). He broke
up with me when things were GOING WELL! When things were finally
improving and we were finally in a positive, healthy state. That is
the most manipulative, horrible thing someone can do to you—put up an
illusion for months and then justify it by saying he was trying to
spare your feelings—IT AFFECTS YOUR DECISION TO STAY IN THE
RELATIONSHIP, don’t deny that it doesn’t.
If he wasn’t comfortable inviting me to something, that’s fine—but he
should’ve answered the question. THAT is mean. THAT is selfish. So
please do not claim you know what my ex’s intentions are or were – you
simply don’t. You have no clue.
My point in the original post was simply to help the readers not
contact their ex on their birthdays. In no way was I endorsing that I
was a victim. I was simply endorsing freeing yourself from feeling
“obligated” to pursue someone who never gave you what you wanted. You
seemed to have misconstrued my point and honestly, your comment made
me angry because many parts of it invalidated the fact that my ex put
me through a rollercoaster—yes, it’s so easy to just be like “oh but
you should’ve stopped!” but of course, everyone usually learns that in
retrospect. I comment on here because I already know and have been
through it and have learned. I don’t need to be told that it was all
my fault.
Why not leave a comment talking about what YOU should’ve done, instead
of analyzing my post? I believe you would have more accuracy and
authority over your own history then mine.
It’s easy to say “oh, you should’ve left” “you should’ve done this” –
you said you know this from experience yet it doesn’t seem to come
from a very validating place. This community is supposed to be
validating and supportive, not just one-sided, one-minded “remember
you are the total problem”—it’s more nuanced then that for sure!
Right, I’m doing it. I’m reaching out for help. I didn’t know whether to post on a thread that was related to the situation or just the newest one so sorry if I’ve got it wrong.
My last LTR was everything bad you read on here. The most likely person to let me down and cheat, outrageous statements overlooked or ignored, deep denial, all of it.. right down to seeing signs I should reign back trust and ‘deciding’ the answer was to throw more trust at it. Walls that only go all the way up or all the way down. When he finally admitted to the cheating I still stayed for a few years trying to convince myself that I trusted him when my actions clearly screamed that I didn’t. I finally left early last year.
I threw myself back into counselling. I worked through a lot of the Maternal issues, I understand better now. I take responsibility for my happiness and I know when something is driven by my inner child …blah blah blah I devoured this website and cringed at the decisions I had made, but I wasn’t yet in touch with my deep beliefs about relationships.
I met a man a year ago. I told him I hadn’t finished working on myself but as he is away a lot with work it became a bit of a part time thing. Me with plenty of space to develop myself. He told me up front about his dodgy past. Addictions and cheating from both sides of his dysfunctional marriage. He also told me about the tonnes of counselling, rehab and 12 step programme that has helped him turn his life around. I see evidence that he maintains his introspection.
If you put his past to one side he ticks all the boxes. I have my new baseline for how relationships should be and he exceeds it. I could go on and on but i’ll just start gushing. I am his priority and I feel like someone has my back for the first time in my life.
A few weeks ago I couldn’t be happier, plus I felt him nudging me out of my uncomfortable comfort zone and it felt horrible yet healthy at the same time.
Then the selfish b$$&!”* went and proposed (very romantically surrounded by a day of wonderful stuff gush gush). The next morning I woke up very early and panic hit. I relived all the pain and horrible feelings of my last relationship and became a mess! I’ve been struck (or rather struck myself) with a hard dose of anxiety couple with vicious cycle of self-sabotage. Not just the relationship but all the things I had bought into my life that I have built up for myself.
I have sat and raked over whether I am missing some external evidence that I’m not acknowledging knowing that the ‘thinking session’ might mean the end of the relationship and not come up with anything. He’s great, open, thoughtful, lets me know he’s thinking of me a lot, makes me ‘Feel’ like I am important to him, can trust and have faith in him.
I have been to see a CBT counsellor who says I am spoiling good things because that’s what my Mother does – massively simplifying it.
So Q1) Am I still dellusional about my choice in men?
Q2) Assuming I’m not and this is happening because he went from nudging me out of my uncomfortable comfort zone to shoving me out with full force, how the hell do you cope!?!?!
I’m doing the CBT and working on the get out of stuck worksheet. I came across this example
“So, if you imagine that someone believes that relationships don’t last, that men disappear and cheat, and that there is something
unlovable about her, she’ll get involved with someone who offers the least likely prospect for commitment who is likely to blow hot and
cold and disappear or outright abandon her, and who will have a tendency to cheat with other women.”
I had done well at my self esteem, building a life for me, not relying on him to feel good about myself etc etc and feel like I have been flung backwards into a pit of not looking after myself properly, frozen and closed off emotionally and living a half life
Just after thoughts…. or a slap!
Tigger,
There’s no fire! This is not an emergency!
You’re having entirely human and appropriate feelings about a gesture of commitment from someone you want to trust, but because of your and his history, can’t quite trust.
You don’t have to get to the bottom of this today or tomorrow.
Your sense of urgency and panic is internal. Just value it as what you’re feeling, sit with it, talk it out with your counselor, and tell your boyfriend you’re a little scared — without dragging him into helping him figure you out.
Let him be him and you be you and relate honestly.
There is no fire. You can be engaged and sit with that, or ask for a little time and sit with that.
Ambivalence is the human condition; this wholehearted, perfect clarity you seek is too much pressure, and it’s self-created.
Thanks ixnay
Ok, I posted earlier that I emailed my uncle to say that I wouldn’t accept certain things. I got a response: ‘I’m sorry you feel that way’ and went on to not apologize, but in fact justify what was said… What do you do when your ‘family’ are AC’s, I’ve already stopped talking to my ‘father’ after telling him to stop yelling at me for not being who he wanted me to be. It’s been about 10 years since I’ve talked to him, he’s busy getting everyone to feel sorry for HIM that his daughter treats HIM so poorly, my uncle seems to be on this boat and not understanding where I’m coming from when I confronted HIS behavior. Is it my fate to have to cut everyone that is tainted by backwards, out of date attitudes towards women, family and what respect entails out of my life? I think I may have answered my own question… if they can’t treat me with respect, and they won’t be told, well, yes for my own self respect and happy future….why entertain people who don’t respect me? I don’t enjoy the time with them, just because they are ‘family’ doesn’t give them a pass on bad behaviour…THAT’s why I kept winding up with AC men in the first place!!!!
Jewells
Families are an interesting topic.
Is being part of a family accepting flaws in each other, even the AC ones, or should we evaluate them as if there was no familial relationship.
For me, unless there is physical or psychological harm that we can’t cope with, I’d try to maintain the contact. My father was definitely EU, I’m quite EU, but family seems to be about acceptance of these things – which does not (but usually does) mean forced acquiescence.
I agree that for partners in life, we should be more careful and choosy and forensic, but I’m not so sure with family. Seems to me families defy logic like that.
They’ve a logic all their own I think; I don’t think I’ve worked it out yet…
My last EUM broke things off on Christmas Eve day after a couple of months of dating (with the convienient caveat of “leaving the door open…”). No thanks. He got in touch with me about a year later out of the blue, we went to dinner then talked. I asked him why did he choose that day for the dumping (AKA “leaving the door open when it was convenient for him to contact me”) and he actually admitted that he didn’t want to be together over the holiday, because then that would “mean something”. The light went on for me, on what kind of person he was, why I wasted any time being upset over it, and what a blessing in disguise the holiday dumping was. There were other signs of EUM behaviour early on that I chose to ignore. It just goes to show if you pay attention, people will show you their true colors in the very beginning of the relationship. You just got to be willing to trust your intuition when you are getting a bad sense about someone and then pull the flush handle.
Sally,
I have to be honest; I am dumbstruck that that loser actually admitted this
” he actually admitted that he didn’t want to be together over the holiday, because then that would “mean something”.
I think we like to be appalled when they are not honest, but really, when they are it is equally offensive…what kind of person both admits and does that…? You are right, someone not worth the time. Glad, in some ways, you had that “suck it and see” moment..
Buy or mail yourself a romantic card and/or some flowers on your ex-EUM’s birthday. Like a previous poster suggested, why not treat yourself to a massage. Hell, I’d you can afford it, buy yourself some nice jewelry. When I save up some $$ I am planning on buying myself a chocolate diamond ring because I’m worth it!!
i’ve been NC (x 28 possibly) for about 5-6 weeks.
it is so calming not to walk around with my head down because the guy disappeared again.
i used to die from missing him when things went south but no longer, not after knowing him since 2005.
last time i was NC 4 mos. (this time last year) until he came looking for me. that is something i cannot stop, and restraining order would be overkill since he doesn’t stalk me. but i can recommend NC as a way to get yourself back to you.
a nice man has talked to me 2x at the pool now.
younger than EUM, very pleasant, friendly. he was so nice and it was so nice that he was so nice … TO ME! like i was the girl of value that i should know that i am. not the woman with low self esteem that the ex helped create.
i laugh heartily these days, i manage confrontations better, i don’t crumble at difficulty as i did when i had the “monkey” on my back.
it is not so much because of NC. it is because you are not meant to walk the earth dissed by another and you can’t expect a happy life accepting crumbs. you just can’t.
you know, i just don’t want that shi* anymore. it sucks, you feel horrible just in general because all the while there is that sense of rejection.
anyone trying to go NC or stay with it, do.
imagine how horrible these men really are as people to treat another so poorly. these are
bad people, bad characters and no one to know.
Colororange: Blocking him was one of the best things I did for me and is really helping. I use to check my phone constantly and jump every time I heard it beep (please please let it be him). The way I as acting you would have thought I was waiting for a heart transplant. Now I don’t know if he is contacting me and I don’t give a crap. No more of his pathetic “let’s see if she is still into me” emails every 2-3 months. I am working on me and mending the many things I ignored and neglected while I “fought the fight” (we all know) to win NOTHING!!
Finally – I agree about blocking his number. I just did it this morning. Self preservation at it’s finest. You gain so much control of yourself because you are no longer wondering if the text that you just received is from him, nor are you checking your damn phone obsessively to see if maybe he threw out a meaningless text crumb! It’s such insanity. It really is. We are all SO much better than that. And deserve so much better. Part of my cycle also involved deleting his # from my phone, then adding it back in when I felt good about stuff sometimes with his name and sometimes only with his number. Then deleting messages, deleting his name and number when he’d disappoint me again – repeat, repeat – Over and over and over. The thing I hate the most about my situation is that SO many other people “think” he is such an awesome person – he is soooo popular and treated like he’s a frickin celebrity. Like it’s the greatest thing in the world if he happens to show up at an event and grace these people with his presence. It makes me sick! Somebody tagged him in an event awhile back and labeled it “a celebrity sighting with EUM” They all cluck away at him on his Facade-book page. Ugh. He actually said to me recently the “harem” IS quite extensive but it’s easy for him to keep up because they are all mostly married women who just stroke his ego. They think he is GOD. Sick sick sick!!!
Oh I love that! “Fought the fight to win nothing!” That is exactly what I felt with my last ex EUM. I was chasing an imaginary rabbit down an imaginary rabbit hole, and all the while thinking this is love. Ha!Insanity.
I think there is something seriously wrong with me. I looked back on this relationship and at the amount of cycles of disappointment I have been on. I couldnt count the amount of times I have been let down and then dropped everything to again embark on another cycle in the hope that things would be different this time. That the words of ‘i love you’ would this time be followed up with actions. And even after looking at a chronology of cycles, I am still wanting him to contact me. I need a labotomy to remove this attachment.
I was once involved with a guy who had me trapped in this cycle. Loved to lay the compliments on thick for me when I was helping him. What a great person I was, what a strong, moral woman, not like anyone else he had ever met. I ate it up, because what truly nice person wouldn’t love to see themselves in this light, to feel like they finally found a relationship where these kind of qualities were finally put to good use? When I asked for something, you could hear a pin drop. Then I was needy, selfish, and insecure, and had the completely wrong idea about our relationship. It had nothing to do with me, though it took me a long time to realize it. The guy had me profiled as doormat who saw the best in everyone and would sacrifice myself to make someone else feel good, and at the time, that is what I had turned into. I finally let it go when it dawned on me that he had no idea who I really was, so why should I take it personally? How the hell could he know me if all we ever talked about was him and his problems?
It officially became my epiphany relationship when he contacted me a couple years later to complain about his current relationship, tell me how he hoped that one day he could pay me back for what a great friend I was to him, and then hit on my sister-who he met once and is 10 years my junior-via social media. That might be an extreme case, but one hell of an eye-opener. Selfish, selfish, selfish. I blocked his number and never thought twice about it.
I now have a rule that if any guy makes me feel like I need to hurry up and get done talking about myself, he’s probably not someone I need to be listening to in the first place.
Hi all! Timely article.
Heard from my ex yesterday. First time in a month since I initiated NC a month ago w/out any explanation.
He texted wanting to know if I was still not talking to him and I said, I have nothing to say. No response from him after.
We have been broken up for five months now and we haven’t got back together or anything. I tried to do the friend thing and it didn’t work so one day, a month ago, I wised up and here we are today.
I said to self…my standards are so high now that if he doesn’t measure up, shut him down!
I will not go back to friend zone!
It’s been just a little over a month since my break up, and I’m new around here. Your posts, books and the comments of your readers have helped me more than I can tell you. So first of all, thank you, NML! I’m coming out of a 4 year relationship, and it ended a week before I was supposed to meet the EUM’s family officially. The rest is according to script – he was unresponsive to my needs, withdrew when it suited him, managed down my expectations, blew hot and cold (was talking about having kids right before he expressed his doubts about his feelings)and wanted us to be friends post-break up etc. I was a fool to keep focusing on his ‘good points’. I was heart broken and wanted to work things out given the future I’d imagined us having, but when he said he wanted to break up because he didn’t want to feel the pressure of a relationship, I didn’t bargain. He wanted things to not be ‘awkward’, but I drew the line and said no to being friends. I was NC for a month. During this time he’s emailed me twice asking for little favours. The first one I ignored, and to the mail yesterday I replied firmly asking him to respect my boundaries and to leave me alone. I can see that he wants to feel like he’s still in my good books, and that he did no harm. I felt aggravated because I was doing really well yesterday, and hearing from him brought up all the negative emotions I’d been trying to let go of. As with others, the timing of this post just made me sit up. It felt like the universe is telling me I did the right thing. Is there a light that goes off inside their heads just when you seem to be getting back on your feet?
I Won’t,
Great that you stuck to your guns!!!
I would highly suggest that you block this guy, as any attention or response may be an indicator – to them – that you are still interested.
Thanks for the reply, Allison!:) I think I struggle with that because I don’t want to seem petty, but I realise I dont owe him anything. Like my friend said, given he didnt consider my terms while in the relationship, at least the break up should be on my terms. I will as soon as he returns my keys.
Sweet Jesus, who breaks up with someone and then emails them asking for a favor? I mean really…who does that? Iwontbemessedwith (LOVE that name), you handled this perfectly. Good for you for calling a spade a spade and moving on!
p.s. Nat has talked about how they do, in fact, seem to have some sort of radar going on where they sense that you’re over it or solidly on the way to getting over it and decide to “pop up”. I’ve experienced this as well and I really think they should put this sixth sense to better use…just think of what great tv psychics they could be!
“I’m getting an M name…Who is the M?…Oh wait, no. That’s my ex-girlfriend who won’t return my texts. My bad.”
Natasha,
I often open-mouth laugh when reading your comments. Keep ‘em coming, girl! You’re after my own heart.
I love the TV psychic angle. True, they are like Dionne Freakin’ Warwicks when it comes to popping back up in our lives! Makes me wonder: if they have this paranormal talent, why are most of them (at least from my own experience and a lot of what I read on this site) unemployed losers?
Awwww thank you lady!! You are clearly my Psychic Friend haha! Ohmygod, my bff and I youtube those old commercials whenever we have a sh*tty day. I couldn’t agree more that these fools could be doing…more productive things with their lives. Especially the ones that pop up. For the love, it’s like “Get a damn hobby other than ‘Flipping Through My Mental Rolodex Of Chicks’. Try crafting or something. And I mean crafting something other than falsehoods/sob stories/Facebook emails.”. OY!
@Natasha Ha ha ha
I wish they’d use this ESP while in the relationship. Forget extra sensory stuff, there was a time when I was stressed out and in tears, and he ignored me, and when I got upset about the avoidance, he touched my face and said: you’re not crying, I don’t see any tears! Well, they’d fallen on his tshirt! Argh! I don’t know what I was holding onto sometimes!
Thanks for the encouragement
Every bit helps 
Oh, btw, it turns out he’d already helped himself to my cycle, and had only emailed me as an afterthought/pointless attempt to make contact. Clearly, he didn’t think I’d object. It riles me up how he much he takes me for granted. But even after a break up? This is all kinds of unacceptable!
Mya,
If he texts you again, DO NOT text him back. He’s talking to air because you are not there. These creeps will use the tiniest, thinnest opportunity to get back in. When you answer, you are cracking open the door and they feel they’ll be able to push on in. Don’t respond.
Natalie,
I think to call it a disappointment cycle is spot on. Other than one boyfriend (my first, who was a decent, caring guy) I have been disappointed in my relationships with men all of my life (I’m now 51 yrs old – how the hell did that happen?!). I always wondered why I was never the one who was “worth it”. I always wondered what was wrong with me as I watched all my peers meet men and marry them – sheesh, yep, they actually married them, and they didn’t have to drag these guys down the aisle by the scruff of the neck – it was by mutual consent!
Although I am two years out of my epic EUM disappointment cycle, I am still processing and although I am generally good and fine, I sometimes am still at one and the same time furious with him and also wishing I was/had been “worth it”. I do know that I will never allow myself to buy into the disappointment cycle again, but i can still see residues of this kind of thinking going on with me – though I recognise it now as something to avoid.
I read this article (below) and thought it’d be a good addition to your own post here. I get the psychology behind the cycle, but also that it is a difficult pattern to break – it’s the way we think that’s the problem and that’s not easy to change.
I guess we can start by changing how we react to this thinking by opting out of the repetitive cycle no matter how much it goes against the grain. Recognise what’s going on and opt out of the cycle – asap.
Here’s the article:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/insight-is-2020/201206/why-women-lust-after-unavailable-men
Yay, I saw this article too and ordered the author’s book immediately, very helpful! PT in general is a great source of useful insights for working on oneself!
Here’s an additional article on ‘repetitive relationship patterns’ that folk might find useful:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evil-deeds/200806/essential-secrets-psychotherapy-repetitive-relationship-patterns
Fearless,
Both articles were helpful, and a great addition to Natalie’s post. Thank you.
Another related PT article: from the other perspective: of a man who is available but nonetheless always relegated to the “friend but not boyfriend”-zone: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/living-single/201111/undateable-guest-post-elliott-lewis
What a vicious cycle. And goodness knows that I hate broken records. Scratch that record & throw it in the garbage.
Someone asked me recently if I was still seeing the ex AC/EUW. When I told them how things went down and I am NC. They started giving me the “you’ve been here before with her and the definition of insanity is…”.
My response: “it wasn’t insanity. It was stupidity!”
Them: “what?”
Me: “if the definition of insanity is doing the same thing EXPECTING a different result then stupidity is doing the same thing KNOWING the result will be no different!”
Its all about breaking the cycle. Not stepping back into your uncomfortable comfort zone!
Great Guy,
That.was.AWESOME! Thanks for sharing.
With my last ex EUM, I decided to do an experiment. We were listening to some live music at a venue he had taken me to in the hot phase (first couple of weeks) of our dalliance. At this later time at the same venue, I was getting different treatment (cold phase). So, I decided to do a little experiement. I would turn my body toward him and be physically attentive and affectionate. And low and behold! he would withdraw and become aloof. So then I would turn my body away from him and act aloof and disinterested. He then would start being affectionate again. I did this at least a few times that night with the same results. I thought this is RIDICULOUS. I confronted him (too much truth and authenticity for him I guess). I dumped him that night. Good effin riddens.
Jennifer
good for you dumping the guy.
I experienced the same for years with my ex EUM. I learned pretty fast that to get any affection from him I had to not offer it to him.
This macabre dance pervaded every aspect of the relationship, even our email correspondence: If I signed off with my full first name and a kiss, he’d sign of his next email with just the initial of his first name, no kiss. Following his lead, I’d sign off my next email to him with the same (the initial of my first name, no kiss). Lo and behold, his next email would sign off with the initial of his first name and a kiss. If I stuck to my simple first initial, no kiss, I’d then get his full first name with a kiss. Hence, I could tell if he was ‘hot’ or ‘cold’ simply by how he signed off his emails! And I was careful of how I signed off mine so that I didn’t have to feel the ‘ouch’ of getting one from him where he signed off just his initial and no kiss. Of course if I followed his lead and signed off with my first full name an a kiss he’d go back to the bare initial. My full name and a kiss was too close for comfort! And I knew I was really in the dog house when he signed off ‘best, followed by only the initial of his his first name, with no kiss.
Reminds me of the Sex and the City gift from Richard that Samantha receives, signed off ‘Best, Richard’. If it’d been my ex EUM it would have been ‘Best, R’.
Total mind-effery. And I danced the dance like a professional. For years I walked on egg-shells round my Dad whose moods were very unpredictable, so any approach to him had to be made tentatively until one could gauge his reaction. I was well-learned in the practices of the EUM. Right from the outset with the ex, all those years ago, I instinctively knew the rules; I knew the dance, I knew all the steps. I was good at it.
Jennifer & Fearless:
Same thing here.
The bad thing, though, is that even while I was observing this strange push-pull behaviour, and wondering about it, I became entangled in the dance.
I got so used to this idea of “don´t show interest and you´ll receive attention, don´t ask for anything and you´ll get something (crumbs?)” that I ended up believing it was what I deserved. That I wasn´t worth anything more. I think ultimately this was something I learned from the relationship with my father, who is an expert at letting me down.
Anyway. I´m doing my best now to see these situations for what they are and to flush asap.
Fearless
Yes I relate to the signing off or even the greetings of emails texts etc. and being able to guage whether it was the hot cold part of the cycle.
It seems strange now but from one text I knew he had another woman.
Amazing how they give themselves away. (he was blowing way too hot for my liking)
Sometimes though it truly felt like a competition of who could be the most EU.
I just opted out of a “disappointment circle” with my ‘ex’. I contacted him after over a year of NC, now I am at about 3 months NC. Yep, trying to return to him as the “brand new me” was a sure sign that I needed to keep working on myself, and I am still working on myself.
Funny though, now, I feel like I am ready to date “as is”–meaning, I’m not looking for a brand new me anymore; I’m ok with me–I’m good enough, er, I always was……:)
Sugarland
“Funny though, now, I feel like I am ready to date “as is”–meaning, I’m not looking for a brand new me anymore; I’m ok with me–I’m good enough, er, I always was……:)”
I feel much the same. i don’t feel i need to change myself. I need to change my behaviour regarding the disappointment cycle, not to seek validation from anyone, not buy into the cycle, keep up my self-esteem, keep it intact. Other than that, who I am is good enough – I always was. It was the men I was choosing to go round the dance floor with… and one more time… here we go!… and again!… who were not good enough for me, not even nearly. What a revelation! Stop the music.
“It was the men I was choosing to go round the dance floor with… and one more time… here we go!… and again!… who were not good enough for me, not even nearly. What a revelation! Stop the music.”
Yes, “Stop the music”–indeed.
Fearless – exactly. They dragged us down to their level and we let them… no more x
Yeah, chasing good feelings is appealing because…er, they do feel good, but, the low’s aren’t worth it to me anymore, and wth? wtf? how many times can one really stand at the end of the rainbow with nothing, and decide to go over it again?
Nat, these articles are just amazing and they really keep me on track with NC. I’m wondering if anyone things this is a a disappointment cycle and I should opt out? I dated this guy about 10 years ago and I broke up with him cause he was controlling. We stayed in touch as friends over the years. He was always the one to contact me and I felt I had a good friend in him and he always said can’t wait to see you if you’re ever nearby. I just moved back near him and said we should meet up. He’s suddenly gone silent and when I try to arrange a coffee he ignores me and then he says he has such a busy job and might have to cancel on the day of if something comes up. I don’t know what to make of this. I do not 100% want to get back together with him, he’s really not for me, but I did want to be friends. Why did he stay in contact all those years and say he wants to meet up and now that we can he is “so busy.” Is it just me, or is it rude to say you’re so busy you might have to cancel day before? I don’t know if this is just one big disappointment cycle since we broke up, or what? I mean I am a busy person too, we all are.
Lavender
He was controlling as a boyfriend and he’s controlling as a “friend”. He’s an ex for a reason. He’s not your friend. He’s taking the piss. Ignore him, nuke him, (as Grace would say) and offer your time and friendship to those who deserve it. That’s my advice for what it’s worth.
Lavender,
Fearless is right! He is playing games.
Lavender, although it’s hard to imagine, I think some guys just like having a cyber-option. They don’t really have to make an effort as long as it is a cyber-convo. It’s lazy and he gets an ego stroke with very little effort. He sounds incredibly rude to me (now). Having to cancel if something comes up because he’s “so busy” is a classic EU/AC line. Is he preparing President Obama and Governor Rommey for the next presidential debate or something equivalent? Is he running a country? BTW,I just flushed almost 4th dreamy date guy for pulling that let’s see what happens and I’ll call maybe shit. He was a run of the mill financial planner. You may be running into OPTION TERRITORY and disappointment cycle big time. Remember when a guy wants to be with you, see you, he will and he won’t leave you hanging. When these guys want to see you, they move heaven and earth to do so. If I were you, I wouldn’t proceed. It sounds like a perfect recipe for a disappointment cycle to me. That’s just my 1 cent. Read Natalie’s stuff on returning childhood sweethearts as well. Your question: “Why did he stay in contact all those years and say he wants to meet up and now that we can he is “so busy”. My answer: Because he is classic AC. Reframe the question: Why would I want to be “friends” with a controlling ex who is too busy to see me? I can’t think of a good answer to that question other than flush and move on Lavender. Don’t chase him. You have your answer.
Wow Fearless, Allison and runnergirl, you are amazing and I am so appreciative of the time you took to give me advice, This isn’t the first time you have given me guidance on here that really changed how I thought about things. Your advice is wonderful and i am definitely going to follow it. Sometimes I think these things, but I need someone to verify it for me. Runnergirl you are funny!!!! hehe… “Is he preparing President Obama and Governor Rommey for the next presidential debate or something equivalent?” It puts everything in perspective!! I so needed to read your advice. Thanks! It’s funny how in life sometimes the people who don’t want to spend time with us, we chase, but those who do want to see us, we don’t give as much energy to.
In spite of my plethora of unhealthy and unavailable relationships, I was only in this cycle once, albeit for 12 years. We would go 2-3 years sometimes withough speaking and then, with some apologies and resetting I would allow him back. Finally I had had enough. I knew I had to be the one to get off the ride or it would go on forever. I had one last cry about it and then changed my phone number, unfriended him on every social network and blocked him from my email. Luckily we had only one mutual friend and I kindly asker her not to ask me about nor update me about him. It’s been almost 3 years and I’m so glad I’m past that.
OK all. This is it. As per this blog post, I’m opting out of the disappointment cycle with this crappy lousy excuse of a man. Another lame rejection from the effen AC was the last and final. As a reminder to myself, I am planning on keeping this post of mine. It goes on my bathroom mirror for tomorrow morning! After a couple of months, he had come back around, checking to see if I was still onboard as his sea wench, even though HE had long jumped ship. Well much to his chagrin I’m sure, I wouldn’t come to his demanding, last minute or late night booty texts but when he recently asked about dinner and drinks I thought, hmmm maybe he’s actually starting to learn some manners. Well, wishful thinking. He didn’t like that I couldn’t come to his beckoned call on Fri when he rudely said come NOW (I was still at work). And so when I (stupidly) extended an invite this week for lunch, I thought maybe we could finally talk and get some shit on the table to deal with it. Well he didn’t respond to my invite. Of course not. He likes to play games. Then I told him of course that the silence was so predictable and then he finally texted he couldn’t afford it. He has said that before when it was my idea to do something that wasn’t his idea. Well he’s a big fat liar, because I KNOW he has the $ and he’s basically saying I’m not worth the small amount for a damn sandwich. That’s the message I got a lot this past summer too after he decided he didn’t want to spend anything on me anymore. This was after he knew I liked him and then I found out about the many other women he was “effing” at his bachelor pad.
And you know those ladies who walk around with single stemmed flowers on the street? He enticed me once with, “you want a flower?” and I said sure and then he said “Nah, forget it”. Yeah.I know! BIG AC! FLUSH. I’m blocking him on my phone, my email, my life. NO MORE. This should be easy but I’m afraid it won’t be but I’m going to do it. Day 1 starts now.
Jule,
he’s a walking excuse. He doesn’t want a relationship, he wants to be in charge. You’ve made the right decision to get off his merry-go-round. Good luck.
Hi Jule,
This guy sounds like an insecure, arrogant ass that doesn’t deserve your saliva, let alone your heart. That bit about him pulling the old, “You want this? Yeah? Well I’m NOT GONNA GIVE IT TO YOU!” thing with the flower is totally prick behavior. Mature men won’t keep male friends like this around because they bring down the testosterone levels in the room through the sheer force of their cowardice.
Glad you’re rid of that little boy. Leave him to his Cheerios in the toilet to potty train himself. Put your bad-ass stilettos on and KEEP WALKING, girl.
Jule, if he ever tries to contact you again, ask him “oh hi sweetie, you wanted to talk/chat/sext with me? …Nah, forget it!”
Jeeez, what an imbecile.
Revolution,
Thank you for that. I loved your comment about the cheerios, his potty training and putting on my stillettos! and yes he has shown total prick behavior on many many occsions. GOD. What was I thinking? He’s such a douche. Flush and block. That’s my new motto for this completely stupid scenario I put myself in.
JR,
If I’ve learned anything on this site, I’ve learned that(and forgive me, everyone, but I’m including myself on this too) the smartest women can make the stupidest choices in men sometimes. But we’re not stuck in amber or anything; we can CHANGE that.
Like runnergirl(I think it was) said in her comment: just look for the poop and snakes on the trail and learn to avoid them. (Brilliant, by the way!)
It’s just poop and snakes, JR.
Amen Revs!
I’ve read this blog for two years now. And as much as I think I’ve learned, I really haven’t. I’m still letting an AC rent too much space in my world, and I’m so tired of saying EXACTLY that, Revolution: HOW are we so smart and then can’t figure this $%&* out? what are we afraid of? why am i letting some jackass dictate how i feel about myself? I’m successful. I’m attractive. but here I am on a monday reading this blog looking for strength, and answers, because i’m sick of crying over this man. when does it get better? I need the better.
This particular post- and the graphic is perfect.
I did this over and over again. Knew it wasnt right, got tired of being miserable and anxious, the feeling of deja vu, went NC, felt devastated, started to gradually feel better, decided to try again, with new improved me. December went NC,
spent a week in bed crying, 5 months NC, and stuck my hand back in the fire – BECAUSE I FELT BETTER.
the reason I was feeling better, was that I had been NC. we met up in June, had a great day together then wham within uncouple of days he was backing off so hard all I could see was a cloud of dust.
It wasn’t as bad as the December “breakup” but still only now am I starting to feel-
Actually happy. It’s been 18 months on and off (mostly off). Reading everyones posts is startling. The stories are so often so familiar. Sometimes I
Actually wonder if we are all talking about the same guy. Plus ca change, Plus c’est la meme chose.
I am done, really done this time.
I am done trying to working out whether he is a narcissist,sociopath, AC, EUM (well he was that alright). I do feel sorry for anyone who gets involved, the packaging is so seductive, she will think all her dreams have come true, until it gradually sinks in how meaningless it is, and emotionless he really is.
Hugs to you Mymble. I loved the disappointment graphic/diagrams too because I lived it. I’m sorry you went through it as well. It was the startling similarities in the comments that hooked me. I got done with doing the Inspector Gadget on him a long while back. It is the same guy and there a dozens like them out there just like there is a ton of dog poop and snakes on my hiking trail. Avoid stepping in the poop and watch out for snakes. Every time I see a pile of poop or a snake on my hiking trail, I realize it is not possible that I’m doing something wrong by hiking along my merry way that attracts dog poop or snakes, right? Poop and snakes are just there. I avoid both. So now my new attitude is: Cheating MM’s/AC’s/EUM’s are just out there like dog poop and snakes. I’m not attracting them, although I’ve gone out of my way in the past, to step in the poop and be friends with a snake. My goal now is to avoid them. Yup I agree, the packing is totally seductive but it still stinks and can bite. Hugs Mymble. There are good guys out there, somewhere. An MM isn’t one of them.
Runnergirl
Thanks!
I’ve done so much inspector Gadget type ruminations but have decided to leave it as one of natures unsolved mysteries why …it is what it is …snake, poop, whatever, the advice remains the same. I do still have wistful moments, but not so much or so intense and I have plenty of much, MUCH more important things to concentrate on.
Oh and I meant to say I love the dating stories, you seem to be having fun and living life to the full and that’s what we all want really.
Yes, yes the old lather, rinse and repeat, lather rinse and repeat. Sometimes he leaves you stuck on spin cycle till you are a twisted crumpled mess. I was Miss Fisher and he was Mr Paykel This was exactly the state of my so-called ‘relationship’. But no more. I decided to do NC last November, it has not been easy, there have been times when I have had to sit on my hands, yell, cry, howl at the moon, meditate, paint nails, unpaint nails, paint them again,go to movies, make muffins, eat all the muffin tops, go to gym, hate gym, love gym, buy budgie, teach budgie to talk, health kick, sugar kick, kicked HIS butt finally I did it! He has tried and retried to get a foot in the door but this time its different. I DONT WANT HIM and I truly pity anyone else who he latches onto. I did have one lapse at the six month mark where I thought I could handle going to dinner with him, and I did, but the whole time I was there I realised that he was not worth my time and it was two hours where I could have been doing something more enjoyable, and, there he was back at the beginning with his poor me band camp stories. I AM different, I have grown so much, and he has stayed the same! THANK YOU to dearest Natalie, BR and all you wonderful people who write who have helped me so much.
I love your name. Truth really does equal freedom. To be able to make choices we need to know the truth of what the situation is and what it means for us. And what`s true to us is how we feel – in the gut.
Thank you Sushi, Truth wins in the end. Sub-consiously I think we KNOW the truth about these dead end relationships, then we have to FACE the truth and deal with it head on. That is the hardest part, but you have to for your health and well-being. I bless the day I found this site and all you wonderful people.
Wow has this hit home just when I needed to hear it. My MM came back for the seventh time ( yes I’ve broken up 6 times) this time I asked if he’d been dating other women and did he have pictures. He always took pictures of us,like trophies. Sure enough he texted me pictures of these other women (I guess I just needed proof of what I always felt…that I wasn’t the only one). I felt physically ill. I told him if he ever contacted me again, I would contact his wife. The cycle has to stop. I’m sick and tired of repeating the same thing and expecting it to be different. I now know that if it weren’t me he would just find someone else to shag. Thanks for the posts!
Imagine,
Eeeewwww! What a creep. Be well shot of him.
Does anyone have any self-care techniques they can recommend – struggling to focus on me and my life at the moment
Marie83
Think of yourself like a poorly, emotionally undernourished, neglected and lonely child that you want to make things better for. Make a list of all the things you’d do and organise for that child. Then, systematically and consistently do all those things for you. Hope that helps.
Marie83, I’m afraid I can’t think of anything original. I was given this advice, proper nutrition, exercise, sleep, do something new, pamper yourself, etc, etc, but to be honest all of those went out the window (at first). It’s so hard to focus when you are hurting. What is helping me right now is therapy and self-reflection. Things have got a lot better since I’ve stopped avoiding my feelings. A major help, ‘the’ major help actually has been BR. I read all the comments most days and it has honestly kept me sane over the past months. I don’t feel alone and life is slowly improving. It will for you too. Hugs to you xx
marie83-
mostly? like fearless says, focus on total self-acceptance. love all of you. it will be hard at first, our tendency to self-criticize is in our bones and difficult to realize and solve.
just don’t reject any part of you. when you think or feel or do something you don’t like, try to look at it without judgment and see, compassionately, why that might have happened. then try to see the other side. try so see yourself objectively but empathetically, not critically. keep doing this, over and over and over until it becomes more of a reflex than your tendency to tear yourself down.
the key is to learn to stay on your own side and know that you can seek comfort within, a comfort that is absolutely perfectly warm and healing, when you get buffeted by the world.
I’m in deep grief which cannot be expressed because it wont be safe for another six months yet but I would give anything to have the chance to let that cycle run again. Not on me. But for someone not to be dead. Even though I’d already successfully NC’d this person, my world has changed in a way I can’t describe since learning this news & it slowly starting to sink in. Words can’t explain it. I feel quite foolish to be feeling such a way. Silly I know.
It isn’t silly teachable it is grief and it is unavoidable. I really do feel for you and wish I could take away your pain. Sending you all the positive feelings I can muster. You really are not being foolish. You loved this person and they are gone. Nothing can be said and you have to let go of it. My father died this year and I had been NC with him for 18 years. The only way I have been able to even partially deal with it is to tell myself that in a way, he “died” for me when I made the NC decision, and anything I could have said to him in between, like “I love you” “You are a useless alcoholic” “youhave wrecked dozens of lives” “you are my dad and I still adore you no matter what you do” would have been things that HE KNEW. None of it would have made any difference to him or his behaviour though. I don’t know if this will help in the slightest with your situation but I hope you find your way out of the darkness.
Teachable, your feelings are a legitimate response to your loss not foolish at all. I’m not sure if this will help and I don’t know if this is similar to your experience or not, but I’m grieving too and for me it’s for the cherished dream of what might have been. It comes in waves, one minute I’m fine but then unexpectedly I am in tears. I’ve tortured myself with the “if only” moments and I’ve often been consumed by irrational guilt. I also think grief can be more difficult if the loss is associated with any unresolved issues, particularly if the loss was sudden. Also, if you’ve experienced a lot of stress in another area as I know you have then it’s harder to work through it all, your inner resources are already depleted. My therapist assures me that over time the grief will become less intense, less frequent and will eventually fade away. I’m hoping that day comes sooner rather than later. I wish that for you too.
Teachable,
I’m glad you popped up again, ’cause I’ve been thinking about you. I know it’s funny to hear that a virtual stranger is thinking about you, but, well, there it is.
Geez, grief is a pill. No getting around it. All we can do is sit next to you while you feel this. Have you ever been crying while sitting next to someone close to you, just feeling the warmth of their body close as they let you cry?
You said you’re in a deep grief which you can’t yet express. I know the feeling. I’ve always expressed my feelings through writing, but after something bad happens (death, breakups, and the like), I don’t write about it for months. Sometimes years. I just can’t. There’s no poetry, no “making my feelings into art” at that point. It’s just grief, pure and simple.
I wonder, sometimes, how I would feel if the guy I went NC with 6 months ago were to have died. It would hit me in the solar plexus, that’s for sure. Unless you’re a sociopath, I truly believe that you are connected for the rest of your life to those you’ve been emotionally connected to in the past. There is an exchange that happens, and you each have a part of each other. We are not untouched in this life. I don’t think I’d have it any other way, though, ACs or no ACs.
Do you regret loving him? Do you regret the time spent with him? Do you think, if he were alive, he would regret the time spent with you? Do you still have any love for him? It’s okay if you do, you know. It doesn’t change the importance of your decision to go NC with him.
Maybe these questions are too much for you right now. You don’t have to answer them to yourself, and certainly not to me, if you don’t feel ready. I know we hear this a lot from people, but truly my thoughts are with you, Teachable. Keep talking to us here. Don’t go away. This is your safe place for you to grieve and express yourself.
I have experienced this cycle many times. For me it goes like this; starts off despite at least amber flags for starters….More flags…..I back off or try to flush ( often in the hope that they`ll change)…..they blow hot or change behaviour somewhat…..I go back full of hope….more flags/the same flags, boundary busting…..I try to back off….they convince me I`m seeing things, unreasonable, too needy, have insecurities….I go back IN SPITE OF MYSELF AND BUST MY OWN BOUNDARIES…..after repeating many times my self esteem is all gone. result; don`t know my bum from my elbow and feel like it really is me who is at fault. And they don`t want to let me go, but also don`t want to give me what I want- a real relationship. i do think it`s easier if you can extricate yourself near the beginning, before you are crushed by the whole heap of this poo.I love Natalie`s roll out and back the trust theory, working really well for me.
I spent 6 yrs with an EUM. Ended that. It’s been about 2 years, haven’t even had a date. Met someone on vacation very briefly, first person I met in a long time to grab my interest. It was very brief, one night of some bar fun and my vacation ended shortly after. Had to go back home. However we’d exchanged numbers and he mentioned he’d be in my city in a few weeks and was looking forward to seeing me there. I
felt excited about that. Few weeks past, no word. I texted him asking if he was still coming, no word. 2 months go by. He texted me out of no where saying he was finally coming to my city. I didn’t respond. He texted again apologizing for not having been in touch sooner and said he’d be in my city for a few days and would love to take me out. I decided I’d respond, and was hesitant due to it being unfortunate timing with some stuff going on in my life. Anyway I decided screw it, I’ll try to be open to this. He wanted to take me out one night which I was unavail, so I suggested the following night instead (being his last night) he said “tomorrow sounds good”. He proceeded to text daily while in my city, kept up communications etc. Night comes for us to go out. We’d talked earlier that day (he texted me ALL day!) and I mentioned “so I’ll see you later?” and said I had work the next day so I’d have to be a good girl. He said same thing as he had a very early flight next day. And added “I’ll keep you posted”. Never heard from him, he completely stood me up. Not even a msg saying “can’t make it”. HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN??? he was so persistent. Then doesn’t bother contacting me to cancel, or anything. Am I nuts?! Wtf! So again, another EUM. How do I end up in these predicaments?
Tyla
What rudeness! I guess he came across something “better” to do.
I also suppose that Nat’s advice of ‘don’t let someone reject you more than once’ came into play. He got a second chance not to be an ignorant f+cker and, hey ho, he was an ignorant f+cker all over again. There’s a lesson there for many of us – me included. Don’t ever take another one of his calls/texts is my advice. BTW, he also sounded like a serial texter. Not good news.
“Not even a msg saying “can’t make it”. HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN??? he was so persistent.”
As soon as you said “I had work the next day so I’d have to be a good girl.”
Sorry but to me he took it to mean sex was off the table and he lost interest in pursuing you any further.
I don’t feel he would have pursed anything else with other than booty call when he was in town.
You dodged a bullet flush and forget delete and block his number.
How do I know that it is not me that is the problem? I know that I need to be NC but I am starting to wonder if it is me treating him badly as well as the other way round. That makes me feel like a bad person and like maybe I have been blaming him for things which are my problem… Not much I can do about it now but beating myself up about my behaviour currently
Tyla it totally mystifies me how you and so many others readily accept texting as a sufficient means of communication. It is sooo impersonal,sooo non-committal, and sooo lazy. Is he allergic to the phone receiver? Don’t you prefer a phone call? When you have low to no expectations this is what you get nothing, zero, nada. It’s not at all surprising that he stood you up. Text is okay for a quick message, but certainly not for conversation, or setting up a date. Puleeeze. You deserve more. Flush him. Also, profuse texting is classic EUM behavior.
Hopeful,
You asked awhile back why he would put his hand over his face when he saw you, as if he didn’t want you to see him. I have a coupla comments about that. By some stretch of imagination he may have been ashamed/embarrassed. You have successfully stuck to NC for > 2 months. Congratulations! I think no matter what he has done to you, he may be feeling humiliated and his ego is bruised especially if he was sure you would not be able to stay away. That hiding face action is exceedingly immature for a grown man. He should have thrown himself in front of a truck instead. Keep up NC. Don’t weaken or concern yourself about who, what, where, when and why anything pertaining to him. That could lead to obsessing and you certainly don’t want to do that. You’ve moved on. And, please — if he texts you, and only says “Hi”, DO NOT RESPOND. Stay strong. All the best.
I once ran into am ex in a book store and he literally slid round one of those twirly book holder things trying to avoid me as I moved round to say Hi!! What a jerk!!! I was really upset at the time but now it really makes me laugh. There is light at the end of the tunnel ladies. Hold that thought!
Thankyou Rev, Vic & Lily. I appreciate you all taking time to reply & saying such kind validating things. They all helped. I’m keeping this short because I’m running on empty. I’m holed under the bed in Cc’s genie’s bottle. The world just isn’t emotionally safe for me to deal with this yet. There’s reasons for that I wont go into. I’m not holding it in on purpose but at least now I’ve identified what heck has been going on with me & this issue. I think of him at night most nights lately. I’m doing ok day to day though. Muddling along as best I can. Small things are bigs wins atm. I’m being grateful for that & the support of ppl like yourselves & here in real life. Thankyou for thinking of me too Rev. That’s so sweet. I’m trying hard not to get too self obsessed in worrying about my own troubles too much. I don’t always succeed I’m afraid but do try. One thing I’m holding onto is that there has to be hope. I don’t say this in a ‘poor me’ way, for in some ways this has been of my choosing (ie choosing raising my son as a priority, my education, establishing my career etc) but I’ve never really experienced very much of anyone loving me properly in my life. Going right back to childhood even. I’m not religious but I am spiritual & I have to believe that life is not meant to be lived how, I was living it. I thought I was doing the right thing making those things priorities, & I wouldn’t change it, but also, when my health recovers, I am finally READY to share my life with someone. I’m finally ‘grown up’ enough. Responsible enough. Mature enough. Able to put someone elses needs ahead of my own enough. So I have to just hang onto hope. And watching you all here, even if many of you zoom ahead of me while Im unwell & take a prolonged period of time out from dating, gives me hope. There has to be someone out there for me somewhere. Afterall, last time I checked, I didn’t have two heads or anything! Ok. Enough now. Time to snuggle back under the covers. Carry on you wonderful soldiers in the battle for a healthy loving relationship, first withourselves, & then one day, hopefully, maybe too, with that special someone!! xx
Teachable,
I’m sorry to hear that you are dealing with the second death of a loved one, ex or not. There’s no getting around the pain, I know. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and feelings with all of us here. For what it’s worth, of all the women on BR, you inspire me the most. Zooming around doesn’t take much talent. Standing firm in the face of grief, looking at the good things you have in life and being grateful for them, reaching out to help others (including myself)…now THAT’S something with which to be reckoned.
In a knife fight, I’d pick you as my right hand man.
Victorious your post actually made me sob. It was just one two big ones (then they stop of course b/cause I’m so shut down), but I swear something like crying almost happened. I’m so very sorry to hear about the circumstances surrounding the death of your father. That would be so much worse to deal with having been a parent & involving the abandonment & other issues you mention. You are right though that you COULD say those things, but he would already know them. The things I said to my ex at the little goodbye ceremony I had at a church for him, seeing as I’d missed the funeral, were also things he already knew. I don’t talk to him much now. I was initially haunted by his spirit\ghost after I found out & so had to discourage that (funny, guess who just popped in! He must know I’m typing about him & btw, I don’t even believe in spirits\ghosts so it’s all very odd…) In any event, I’m less sure of what he’d say \ think now than I was back then. Perhaps because (until now!) I’d mostly severed that connection we have with ppl who once meant so much to us. Your case is different though, being your father. I hope he is at peace now wherever he is. One thing I do know is that if he were looking down upon you he would most proud of the kind & generous person you so obviously are. x
Thanks teachable, and I am sure that your ex feels the same about you. We are forever tied to those we have loved, no matter what the circumstances. Sending you lots of hugs.
Lilly you capture the,waves perfectly & yes there is a similarity with the loss of what might have been. It never easy dealing with loss & grief but it gives us little choice as to the timing of it’s arrival. It sounds like you’re handling things beautifully even though things are hard. I’m sorry to hear that things did not work out with your hopes for the future & your therapist is ride. Eventually the waves get less intense. This is the second ex who has died. Both were the true loves of my life at different times (my only two true loves in fact). This ex was THE one of the two though.
In any event, I guess, no ex’s to come back & mess things up for me ever, huh. The only two guys I’ve ever truely loved are both now deceased. And get this, within two & a half years of each other. I was just getting over one (we were happily seperated for many years but on friendly terms), when the other one (a whole different convoluted story), now too is gone.
Talk about waves. I feel like they haven’t stopped coming in something more akin to a tsunamni (because that’s not to even mention having a heart attack & a whole host of other health, education, work, financial & soon to be unemployment crap I’ve had going on)…
Teachable,
My heart goes out to you that is a lot to cope with. I can relate to the tsunami. The loss of my baby was so overwhelming that I’ve neglected most other areas of my life. I tried to get a new job, apply for my PhD, etc, etc, but it all went wrong. I think I was trying to rush the process so I’ve now taken time out. Financially not a good decision, but I can’t quite deal with the outside world yet. But I am slowly getting there and taking one step at a time you will too. When I was at my lowest my sister gave me this to put up on my wall. Whenever I feel overwhelmed I read it, perhaps it may help you too. Hugs to you teachable xxx
Wounds of the spirit… are most gently soothed and made whole by the passing years. Under the old scars flows again the calm, healthful tide of life…. Under a great loss the heart impetuously cries that it can never be happy again, and perhaps in its desperation says that it wishes never to be comforted. But though angels do not fly down to open the grave and restore the lost, the days and months come as angels with healing in their wings. Under their touch aching regret passes into tender memory; into hands that were empty new joys are softly pressed; and the heart that was like the trees stripped of its leaves and beaten by winter’s tempests is clothed again with the green of spring. (George S. Merriam)
Lilly, I just had to comment on this post. I love the quote you posted!! I’ve also sort of been dealing with a huge loss with this breakup of mine. I’ve lost people before (my father died when I was 15), but it has never hurt so much! I guess it has to do with all the lost dreams and plans for the future. But one thing I know for sure: time really does help.
Hang in there, teachable xxxx
Fearless & Tinkerbell,
Yep, you’re both right. Fearless – I also assumed he prob came across something “better” and just ditched any potential plan we had. The reason I gave him another shot (after he never responded to my first text) was bc realistically I felt we didn’t really KNOW eachother, weren’t committed to one another and he didn’t really owe me anything. However, I do realize in retrospect I was rationalizing in my mind reasons why him not having responded initially was ‘ok’. Texting is EASY. there’s no reason you can’t send a quick response. So yea, I guess I ignored my gut of him being a douche bag and ultimately I gave him another shot at ignoring me, which he did. Tinkerbell – you’re right. All the texting = bad sign. But again, I guess bc we didn’t know eachother thoroughly I figured eventually this texting will lead to more then texting! But correct, the communication was all texting on his part and I have enough knowledge to know this in itself is shady shit. Lesson learned!!!
I’ve been in a ‘cycle’ with my ex EUM since 2008!
Its pathetic. The spell has slowly loosened, but it hasn’t disappeared completely. He is a narcissistic and controlling man. He sees himself as higher than me. At one point I saw myself as lower than him and I gave him all my power. The reason I went there with him was because I didn’t want my own power, ,I just threw it at him and said ‘sort me out’. He tried to manipulate and control me, but I rebelled and was splitting like crazy, one day I wanted him the next I hated him. It was draining. We broke up in 2009 and it took me a LONG time to move on. I kept running back and forth. He had a sixth sense when I seems to be moving on and often came back to see what he could get. Despite making considerable advances, I realised that he STILL has power over me to this day.
We were friends on Facebook as he kept asking me to be has friend. I said yes eventually and then I started to talk to him now and then and he would always send me messages if I did not stay in touch often. One day I had a conversation about relationships with him. It lead to him saying that
‘he did not see me as a friend’ ‘our relationship could never be of equal standing’ ‘I don’t understand him and he understands me better than I understand myself’ and….
‘I am a surface level creature who does not understand’ I am not deep. (as in me). Oh and he loves and cares about me.
I replied by saying that I disagreed and that I found it disrespectful. I don’t want to talk to him if we can’t be of equal standing and for him not to contact me. Blocked.
He used to be my moral compass (in a weird sort of way). I do not need validation from anyone but myself.
why has it taken so long to realise this?
I know you weren’t being to literal when you said to plot each event/occassion however I might just do it as a final attempt to remove myself from the cycle.
In my case the individual will always come crawling back when they’re having trouble with their current partner/ex (the same person each time) and I let myself be trapped in the cycle of becoming infatuated with them again etc. hoping they’ve finally moved on (to me). That or they sugar coat their attempts to use me, and again, because I’ve pedestalled them I end up being used and lonely. Doesn’t help that they are a “fast forwarder” and I always get swept up in the moment.
Toxic coctail, I know. Posts such as these are opening my eyes however and I think I’m getting close to moving on. Thanks for the amazing website.
I can’t explain how much you’ve helped me. Thank you so much. I’ve been in the cycle for 6 years and its exactly like the women mentioned that had been in the 7 year cycle only getting 15 minutes of happiness- same with me. Thank you again soooo much!