Comments on: Knowing When To Fold: Bad Investments in Relationships & Seeing The Bigger Picture

By: Gaman

Gaman — Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:44:43 +0000

Reading your words is like curling up on the couch with a good friend and having them tell it to you straight. Except unlike my best friend right now I can return to your words as often as I like and you will never get peed off with me and tell me to drop it already, you are sick of hearing about this guy! Every time I feel myself sliding I come back here and read a little more, and it gives me the strength to continue while I work on finding the inner strength to do it myself. Thank you SO much !

By: Stefanie

Stefanie — Thu, 20 May 2010 19:04:37 +0000

I just read your post and wanted to tell you how much I liked it. Thank you for expressing my feelings out loud. I know what you mean and it is hard but when i read your post it did not sound that hurtful and terrifying anymore. So thanks a lot.

By: Jill

Jill — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:43:49 +0000

Hi, This website has helped me dramatically. When I read the information it makes me feel like my feet are being weighted down to the ground again. I have been in and out of this relationship that is mostly based on emails for communication, for 5 years. The last time I saw him, four days ago, he said “I’m sick and tired of hearing about how everyone loves you”, he said “I’m bored” and then he dropped the bomb and said “I’ve been trying to get rid of you for years”. When I asked him why he sent emails saying “I love you” at the end of each one, he said, “cause that’s what you wanted to hear” When I asked him why he phoned me and invited me over he said “cause his kids wanted me to come over” Needless to say I’m reeling from the pain. He had me convinced that I was the cutest girl he’s ever seen, he would stalk me when I went out with my girlfriend. He told me that he wanted to be together forever, he’d play our song and be all lovey when he was drinking, etc. but very non-talkative usually. And also, he told me he did coke a few months ago. I’m so torn cause I want to believe so badly that he meant all those things he said and I beleived, even though my gut told me otherwise.

By: erin

erin — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 07:21:46 +0000

This article is so true. I always stuck around because after X amount of time I’d tell myself “Well its been this long and hes changed a little, so if i stick it out maybe he will change more!” In reality, I had to debase myself (screaming, crying, empty threats) to get the things that should be automatically given in a relationship. (Respect and monogamy being the two that immediately come to mind.) Now its over, and I still cannot believe how utterly horribly wrong the relationship was, on all levels. And I am ashamed of myself for putting up with the behavior. I have to stop myself thinking “Well maybe if I had only made it MORE clear what my boundaries were…” Even now, 2+ years later when I know logically that there is no hope, I still get jittery when he sends me emails. We have been apart for about 2 months, and I delete them/ dont answer his calls. But it is incredibly hard… Because this is the part of our nasty little pattern where if I pick up or read his emails, he is telling me everything i want to hear to convince me to “reinvest” in him.

By: ph2072

ph2072 — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 08:09:20 +0000

GREAT post. The way you related this to investments/investing and gambles/gambling was genius. Thanks for giving me more food for thought.

By: Anusha

Anusha — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 22:55:20 +0000

Thanks for your reply Natalie You are right somebody with those characteristics isnt suitable for a nice relationship,gladly I can see that now.

By: aphrogirl

aphrogirl — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 20:08:54 +0000

NML thanks for taking the time to reply to us.

I am angry but also shocked that I did not have empathy, and only disgust when I saw him. I spose this was a instinctive way to keep myself distanced emotionally. My anger at how he would not strive for a healthy relationship with me, chose cruel words with no accountability when he ran out…is what has kept me solid with NC, and NC is what is required for me to do what I need to do for me.

There is a disconnect with this guy, and also a very strong awareness that he is disturbed, but he no confidence in his ability to be able to work through it and is making an art form ( drama) out of being wounded.

Yet, I believe so strongly in empathy and understanding, as a way of peace, that it is important to me to turn my anger and ” unlove” into some form of compassion that does not harm me.

When I think of him I can empathize with his misguided and sorry choice of lifestyle… no friends, closed off to almost everyone. When I think of me, I know I have to stay NC to protect myself from his instability shaking up my world. My ultimate goal is to balance these two positions, and stay in NC with compassion and no anger towards him.

By: NML

NML — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 18:40:24 +0000

@Katty Thank you! Risky men are like potential health hazards – not worth the risk with long lasting implications
@Aurora You’re absolutely right. Sometimes when we want the heart to rule, we have to apply some logic to sanity check our decision to love, otherwise we are assuming that when we love, we love for the right reasons.
@Movinon Thank you for sharing your experience. What you guys were experiencing was a heightened level of co-dependency where you enabled one another’s behaviour. You should be proud of the inner strength you have worked with to achieve your recovery and stay committed to you. Sometimes we have to impose limits on ourselves otherwise we continue to believe that the potential of reward will make it all OK, when in fact, the reward never materialises. Take care of yourself x
@am I’m glad you realise that. The part of ourselves that we work on is the part that pursues when they are not interested and tries to get them to change or to see us as we want to be seen. These guys create their own self-fulfilling prophecy and it’s about the fact that they don’t want relationship. Period. We shouldn’t have to force ourselves on people.
@Liliflower Your fear is what a lot of people have. We believe it will be easier to be with someone unworthy of our time because we think they’ll value the goodness we didn’t believe in enough to apply to someone better and more worthy of our time. Unfortunately the devil is unpredictable and burns your fingers!
@Kay Thanks for sharing. I know it’s been quite a journey of self-discovery. After a while, the boredom takes on a different feeling and it’s no longer boredom. You can make better choices when you’re calm and you will start adding more things to your life and continuously feeling good about you. Sometimes you need a fall off the wagon to realise what you’ve got xx
@mE If it’s familiar, then it’s part of a pattern and as you already realise, you can address that. You need instincts – it will help you put your energy in the right places because you’ll have your own trust system in place. You can change the pattern and the confidence kicks in when you consistently make judgements and make decisions that have your best interests at heart. It takes patience and time, but not a lot of it. When we consistently behave like this, it becomes second nature.
@Myrtle If we don’t believe in our decision to leave, we’ll second guess it. This is why it’s good to know what is and isn’t healthy, remember your boundaries, values, and whether it feels good to you. If it doesn’t stack up, you have to trust your decision to go and believe in yourself. You’re right – the amount of energy you put in trying to make it work doesn’t change the fact that it’s a bad investment.
@MaryC Absolutely and we have to be 100% accountable for the choices that we make. If we give in and beat ourselves up, it’s making the choice to be stuck and that achieves nothing. Blame and shame doesn’t create positive change. You will be OK. Keep the faith
@Billy My pleasure
@Aphrogirl You’re grieving the end of your relationship which includes the reconciling of the illusion with the reality. A natural feeling that passes is anger. With a lot of these guys, the anger is often caused by feeling like you had your right of reply removed, that you weren’t heard, understood, validated. They can also appear to be walking around without a care in the world and often they are… Disconnected. Forgive yourself and if anything, feel sorry for him that he is the person he is. The inability to love, appreciate, and empathise with another person makes for sad, rather cold existence.
@Grateful for NML What a lovely compliment! Thank you! What a great way to reconnect with you. We all have the little child within that we need to protect and nurture. It’s very easy to spend our energy trying to nurture people who have emotional black holes but will need to nurture ourselves so that we can be open to positive opportunities and treat ourselves with due care.
@R.C Thanks for sharing your experience. You both have totally different values and work ethics and would undoubtedly have rubbed each other up the wrong way. It’s not that he has to be a power animal but it is good to have some ambition. It’s very frustrating to be making plans that don’t materialise. Whilst it’s good to dream, someone who is all talk and very little action will have you suddenly realising that this is the way things will always be.
@Anusha I’m glad I’m helping you to see him in a different way. You wanted a thoroughbred and unfortunately he was a three legged donkey. Selfish, self-centered people don’t tend to adjust their behaviour for other people and being in a relationship doesn’t change someone who doesn’t want to change or consider someone else.

By: Used

Used — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:00:11 +0000

Aphrogirl–
What do you mean by “unloving” someone? Do you mean hating (…but not really hating, hence your use of the word “unloving”)?

Need to know, b/c your last paragraph, above, is EXACTLY how I feel when I see the former AC, and, to a lesser extent, when I see all of our mutual friends, who act like him.

By: Anusha

Anusha — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 21:31:28 +0000

“If you emotionally invest in people who offer the least likely prospect for you to be treated with love, care, trust, and respect, the odds are stacked against you, much like they would be if you put a three legged horse in a race and expected it to win just because you loved it and invested time and energy in it.”

That makes so much sense and is funy how I couldnt see it before.It was insane to expect that a self centered guy that has no idea how to behave in relationships(taking from his relationship with family and friends) could give me the kind of relationship that I wanted.I definitively was beting on a three legged horse and expecting it would come first.

By: R.C.

R.C. — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:23:23 +0000

I came across this website a few months ago on the google search engine when I was looking up topics on “return on investment in relationships”. I have been a subscriber to BR ever since . I’m a divorcee going on two years now and this is one decision that I’ll NEVER have to regret making. I do regret however, that I didn’t have the courage 10 years ago to leave the relationship. That “hoping, wishing, & waiting” will do it every time which only creates more heartache & disappointment later on (totally useless!). Me nearing 40 yrs old, I was forced to contemplate if staying in the marriage with the ” let’s work it out” mentality was worth it given that I had invested 13 years of my time, effort & emotional energy or leave a five year unfullfilled, complacent marriage to tend to my own goals, needs, & wants once and for all. Figuring that I had nothing else to gain or lose, I choose the latter.

Realizing a year after the divorce that I never got that “return on my investment” (children, house, secured marriage) I became so disappointed with myself and bitter toward him that I had to have counseling. The sessions were invaluable in helping me to understand the root of my anger which falls back to some unresolved issues from my past. Once it occured to me the reasons for being in a wishful thinking relationship, I was finally able to forgive myself and move on.

The fact that I was more goal driven than he was, I always knew that it wasn’t meant to be. The potential was there but he just didn’t work hard enough to see it to its fullest. Being that he was the product of a self-satisfying, convenient union, now I understand that it was learned behavior. I just couldn’t no longer settle for the laxed, laid back person that he was with goals & plans that we made together, never coming to fruition. I’ve come to appreciate the wisdom that I have obtained over the years and I definately plan to apply it to my life from here on out. But what I finally had to accept in regards to relationships is that 1) you cannot change anyone, no matter how long you wait or try. 2) what you see is what you get. 3)never ignore the signs, no matter how small or insignificant you think they might be. 4) stop settling for less. And finally, woulda, shoulda and coulda has left the building. I’m now leaving with it.

By: Grateful For NML

Grateful For NML — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 16:11:53 +0000

One of the things I love so much about your posts, NML, is that they are indisputable truths! You are a wonderful Soul Teacher..and I am a grateful student. I have discovered (along my journey from being the “desparately lost & miserable illusion hunter” to the “keep it real girl” I am today) that in order to trust myself I needed to love myself. I had NO IDEA how to do that. I actually dug out some old pics of me as a little girl. (I wanted to see what I looked like when I didn’t need the ‘love of a man’ to be happy.) I stared at the pics and I thought…I wish I could just hug this little girl and protect her from all the pain I knew she’d someday feel. Then it hit me! I CAN protect her….I love her! ~ now, aside from referring to myself in the 3rd person , I have a much more SANE idea of trust, boundaries, etc…..I must be well on my way to being fully healed, too….’cause I have turned down offers that I used to be ‘unable’ to refuse!! I’m learning to trust my own judgement on whether something is worth betting on or not.

I can’t wait to read your next post, NML!! <3 and peace to you all!

By: Gina

Gina — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 16:08:16 +0000

Great post, and love the analogy to gambling….

I confess to having been an excessive gambler, betting a lot (more than what I had) on a widower, 20 years older than me, who was seeing someone when I met him (now married her), who tries to stay in touch to tell me how his life is unfolding happily – why should this be any of my business? (No contact 2 months now btw). Counting the red flags and the excess baggage here – none of it being mine? I am cured now, dont gamble anymore, life’s good, this website ROCKS!!!!

By: aphrogirl

aphrogirl — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 15:13:13 +0000

“… we can get wise about healthy relationships and â€™seeâ€™ the bigger picture and â€˜valueâ€™ ourselves so that we recognise unhealthy situations that we need to opt of.”

I read a lot of books, and my latest is by one of my favorite authors John Wellwood, called Perfect love, Imperfect relationships. His main premise has always been that the greatest potential for personal growth is within relationships, but in this book he so clearly explains how we all bring defenses to relationships, and our failure to see the grievances and destructive behaviors that the defenses bring is the very thing that keeps us from experiencing love. In the case of the EUM/ AC who is often too lazy or lacks the confidence to work on the crappy behavior his defenses present, his inability or unwillingness to work on the problem behavior is the fatal flaw that makes it an unhealthy relationship.

I have been involved with one seriously impaired EUM and the emotional toll it took on me was bewildering to me as I experienced it. I have been struggling to understand the toll for a whole year of NC. And, I am getting somewhere. Basically, this guy, with all his defenses and walls against intimacy got me in touch with the part of me that feels unworthy of love. Though many of us carry this basic wound from typical childhood stuff, it has been a long time since I felt unlovable, and I thought I had successfully worked to overcome all that a long time ago, though I had it all together etc ect…

But, I do think that being involved with one of these people is so demoralizing it can bring it all those insecurities back up, or to the surface if you’ve never faced them…you do feel so damn unloved because not they are not capable of loving you properly and what they do instead hurts.

So, sad as this is for all parties, knowing its time to fold, and then actually walking away is welcoming back your faith in you, your lovability, your capacity to love and be loved.Don’t think you’ll get love from the EUP, cause without a lot of desire to learn to love, and a lot of introspection and hard work on their part ( which you have zero control over, btw :- )) it will not happen.

Walk away, push away the cloud that has covered the light and love that is inside of you, a light that we are all born with that never leaves us, and welcome the return of the warmth of that light, in the form of self love, back into your life.

Also, I never knew I was so capable of unloving someone and I saw the AC recently for like two seconds and had to turn away. I was shocked to feel such strong feelings of hatred and disgust. Alas, this is not something I want to live with and this led me to the aforementioned book. If you are having no problems with NC but still struggling with hard feelings (in my case a whole year later) about the AC, I’d highly recommend Wellwood’s Perfect Love book. If it resonates with you it can set you free.

By: Billy

Billy — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 05:20:24 +0000

I’ve been on this website a lot lately, getting wise to and getting over my first–and hopefully last–EUM. This site is invaluable! Thanks for all the wonderful advice NML; it’s very appreciated