There are two big questions hovering in the comments recently that pretty much amount to the same thing:
How do I let go of the guy that didn’t reciprocate my feelings?
How do I let go of the guy that I didn’t actually have a relationship with?
In essence, how do you let go of a one-sided attraction which in your mind has created a relationship out of…your feelings?
For a start, you can’t ‘break up’ when there is nothing to break up from. The only person you have to break up with is you and your rather overactive imagination and feelings.
The issue here isn’t really about ‘him’ as he’s not really part of the equation when you’ve created an illusion rather than keeping your feet in the real world – the issue is about you and the fact that you don’t want to let go of your feelings, your obsession, your drama.
There are four key reasons why these situations come about:
You are a queen of projection. You choose men that cater to your own negative self-fulfilling prophecy and are likely to leave you ‘crushing’ on them and then you project the feelings that you think you have on them and assume that because you think you feel a certain way about them, they should feel that way about you too. You want them to notice you, to see you in the way that you see them, and you conduct the great majority of this stuff in your head without communicating it to them and then wonder why they haven’t reciprocated your feelings.
You think that your feelings are big enough for the two of you. You lose all sense of proportion and become so consumed in how you feel that you want him to be swept up in all the love you have to give and that one day he’ll catch up to how you feel and return it. Trust me, they don’t.
You don’t actually want to be in a relationship. You’re living in a dream world and afraid of being rejected in the real world. In choosing men who are aloof and unlikely to be interested in you, you get to avoid having to be hurt in a way that you’re trying to avoid. Instead, you build sandcastles in the sky in your head and then feel rejected by your own daydreams because the reality is that you need some sort of inspiration for these illusions and he is not a part of your life. You’re very emotionally unavailable.
You don’t want to let go. As many of us have discovered, even if it’s the most toxic thing to continue feeling as we do or being involved with someone, we continue, not only because it’s a bit like ‘I’ve started so I’ll finish’ but also because even when there is nothing or it’s crap, we don’t want to let go. We don’t want to get real with ourselves in case we find that we have something difficult or painful to look at, we don’t want to admit that we’re often creators of our own pain, and we certainly don’t want to admit that we’re letting go of something that didn’t exist, and if it did, it was for the most part in our heads.
Remember, it’s a bit difficult to make someone accountable for something that is a grand illusion in your head when you could have been making them accountable for real behaviours. Likewise, you can’t wonder why someone isn’t being and feeling what you want them to be when they’re not part of the relationship in your head.
These men end up acting as ‘inspiration’ for our latest round of feelings and it’s like they put some input in at the beginning and then we just take it from there, refusing to acknowledge whether they are even there or not and if they are behaving in line with what’s in our heads and if not, why not.
Quite frankly, any misery you are feeling is for the most part, your own creation because you are not interested in keeping your feet in reality and have been too busy wallowing in your own world. In doing this, you’re not seeing signs that you need to get real, and you’re not hearing signs that you need to get real. In fact, the person may have no clue that you are even interested in them, or if they do, they may have told you that they’re not interested and you switched to unreciprocated feelings mode and hovered there expecting him to see you in the way that you want to be seen and magically catch up with your feelings.
It doesn’t matter what they feel – you’re only interested in the fact that you feel what you feel and you want them to feel that too.
The thing is, from the moment that you recognise that you 1) are not having your feelings reciprocated and/or 2) that you’re not in a relationship with them, major warning signals should be going to your brain that there is something seriously wrong if you are still trying to get them to reciprocate and obsessing about them over an extended period of time.
It’s one thing to have a crush and it’s the other to crush the crap out of yourself in a self-destructive pursuit of pain and then blame it on someone else.
If you have made the choice to continue loving and chasing him with much of it taking place from your head as you wait for crumbs or nothing at all, you’re on a serious avoidance mission because it’s like you want to hide away on these self-created feelings of rejection rather than get out there in the real world and risk yourself in a real relationship.
Whilst I recognise that in some instances, we can be misled by a guy to believe that he feels more than he does, I tend to find that women who are in this situation are invariably in it because they decided that they were crazy about someone and don’t want to let that, and the fantasy go.
You’ve decided that you want him, love him, and to hell with it, you’ll find a way to show him that he should notice and love you too. You’re gonna ride this imaginary donkey of love till it collapses.
We’re back at the juncture again where we think that deciding that we love or feel something about someone creates an automatic IOU.
We’re also back at that juncture where we’re loving without any foundation for loving and then refusing to opt out because we don’t want to let go of the fantasy or the illusion and get real…and deal with our problems.
And trust me, if you’re doing this, you have some big issues to deal with because you’re engaging in incredibly self-destructive behaviour and repeatedly creating a rejection situation for yourself and then wondering why you’re in pain – because you did it, not him!
In all honesty, the only way that these situations end is when YOU end ‘it’. You don’t need to say anything because to be honest, I think some of these men would be a touch confused if you told them that something was over that they didn’t think had started.
Stop calling, stop chasing, stop texting, stop seeing a bread loaf when there is barely a crumb.
Stop waiting, stop hoping, stop projecting, stop the madness.
Stop creating drama and then wondering why you are miserable – as it’s all one sided, you are the master orchestrator of your own soap opera.
Commit to being in the real world. Take things at face value so when he doesn’t call, it’s because he doesn’t want to speak with you, not because he’s waiting for you to make a move. When you don’t hear from him for months, it’s not because you did something wrong that you need to figure out – it’s because you are not in a relationship and whilst you are daydreaming the crap out of your life, he is out there living his.
Yes that’s right living and if you spend your energy wanting men that don’t want you and then obsessing about why they don’t want you, your life will be at one mega grandstill.
If you point blank cannot accept that 1) it’s for the most part in your head, 2) if he doesn’t want you then it’s time to start learning to stop wanting him, 3) you’re creating your own drama and pain, then you must at least accept that you are 100% responsible for where you are now and that you don’t get to let yourself off the hook and blame him.
And then go and talk to someone because spending your life and brain time escaping from the real world whilst hurting yourself and not wanting that to change says that it’s time you spoke to someone and got to the heart of your issues.
But if you are at that point where you want to and can do something about this, don’t try to make things anymore complicated than they are because when you let go of something that doesn’t and didn’t exist, you have that power and are in the driving seat of what happens to you. Don’t make out like he has to do something to end this – you have to do something and cold turkey it out so that you can gain some real perspective and get to the heart of why you are engaging in this self-destructive behaviour so that you don’t go back.
Your thoughts?
Get ahead on understanding waste of space men and relationships with my ebook, Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. Find out more and download. Also find out more about my No Contact Rule web seminar, or if you need personal advice or analysis of your relationship, check out my consultation service.
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Lisa,
That must have been very difficult and painful for you.
I’m curious if he was sleeping with other women or just has an unusually low libido?
Hey Gaynor,
Thanks for being sympathetic. Yeah, life was very painful, very empty, and lonely and sad. Thank God for the kids because that made life fun and I’ve enjoyed being a mother so much, so it didn’t all turn out bad. I’m just glad I don’t have to live with him anymore. I don’t hate him, so that made it even harder to leave… I don’t know if it was low libido with him… I don’t think he was cheating because he was barely ever able to get excited no matter what I did, he was very church driven, very much “man is the decision maker in all things” and mostly home when he was supposed to be… I used to pray that he’d cheat so then I’d have a legitimate reason to leave, but he didn’t, and I just had to get the courage to get out and get my self-esteem and sanity and a happy life back…. life has been okay, but it took years, and then 6 years after the divorce, I met the married AC and believed him and his “almost divorced stories” for over 2 1/2 years. I’m still trying to figure out why I let myself fall into that, but thank God I’m out!!! 3 full months of no contact now
I really thought I was in love. The married guy told me how much he loved me all the time and said he wanted to marry me, and it was so confusing, but sometimes when you’re in it, it is hard to see the cold reality of it all I love this site. I love what you write. How are your relationships with men now?
OMG! I’m and introverted azzclown! a covert narcissist if you will. I have been shaped and molded or rather “trained” to act out in ways that are not healthy!
I recently dabbled in a flirtatious tango with a man over the past month. We work in a large hospital setting… he on the finance side and me on the research end. Needless to say he was intriguing. Dark, mysterious, powerful and bingo… MARRIED! By the time of my discovery (he never hid it, I just didn’t see the signs like the gold wedding band on his dark gold skin… so it blended in geesh!) I already allowed myself to be sucked in. I guess I needed a bit of ego stroking myself.
I never wanted to engage in the possibility that I am emotionally unavailable. I feel like i have a disease of some sort. I should have ended our tryst from the onset, but goodness I found him so charming and alluring. I did kiss him and from then on it was goo goo gah gah for this bloke. Anywho, I went no contact on his hot/cold, ignore/acknowledge azz. My ig had to be done anyway, he is a married man, so it makes things so much easier on my emotional and mental state.
Yes, we must get it together ladies and gents. We will never have true love if we never look truth in the face.
Hi Lisa,
I think we were/are married to twins! NO kidding. I have been married for 31 years (!!) we have had no sex for 11 years…and I’ve tried EVERYTHING. Before this decade + dry time we very rarely had sex and I always initiated it. Always. I believe I married him because we were good friends (still pretty much are) and I was coming off a very abusive marriage. My husband was ”safe”. We also have 2 children (grown now) and I loved being a mom. He was an emotionally absent father….married to his computer. BUT still I stayed. I think my self esteem was/is so damaged that I felt/feel that no one else would want me. (thanks to lots of damage from 1st marriage and abusive childhood)
Any way….this brings me to the present….61 years old. Scared to grow old alone, but still very vibrant and alive…not ready to crawl into a rocking chair or anything like that. Husband with many health problems. A recent stroke and subsequent drugs (high blood pressure) have left him completely impotent. He’s as much as told me to just forget him ever being sexually active. (funny thing is…I even asked for him to help me masturbate….or even just touch me….NOPE, nada) Soooo…that’s where I am. Leave? he needs me for $$ … and he’s not too well physically, though he has returned to work. I sure would be perceived as the big ”poopy” in that case.
How did your children take the parting? Do you think, at 61 I should just try to be happy with the status quo? Would you? I so related to your description of the coldness, emptiness…lack of emotion in the relationship between you and your husband.
OH…to top it all off. I too had an emotional (mostly) relationship with a married asshole who I knew from my teen years. That’s how desperate I was for some ”touch” , for someone to tell me it wasn’t me, for someone to say I was desirable. Of course, as it turned out, he had ulterior motives having nothing to do with me.
You are much younger than I….and I wish you much love and happiness. You will find someone who can freely love you in return. I just know you will. I have read your posts here for quite a while and you seem like an extraordinarily kind, intelligent and loving person. Hang in there. This married jerk is a bump in your life. (as mine is) but they do serve to show us that we have so much to give. That we are not dead inside. Better days are ahead. Take care!
Blessings.
Lisa,
Thank you so much for writing about your experiences with your ex husband. It definitely helps me to hear that I’m not the only one out there dealing with that. There’s this expectation that men want sex all the time, but it’s not necessarily true– I think that emotionally and physically unavailable behavior often go hand in hand. Like you, I would be absolutely shocked if my EUM was seeing anyone else, as we spent nearly every night together. In the span of a year and a half, we probably had sex…5 times? It goes beyond low libido…I remember at the beginning of our relationship when his libido was through the roof. It was only when faced with commitment that he couldn’t get it up.
Good on you for 3 months of no contact with your married EUM. It’s such a positive step in the right direction! No need to beat yourself up over missing all of the signs. This is a learning process!
All I am saying is…I know me and I know my past and I just realized that I have been dating the same guy over and over and over again just in different bodies. Now, the way I see it is if I go all no contact with him…I am just gonna find someone else just like him, like I have always done. But now that I know the nature of my beast, it is easier for me to recognize the error of my ways. He has always been honest with me, I was the one not being honest with myself. I am seeing that by keeping him in my life its like I am getting tired of him on my own terms and its showing me that he isn’t everything I made him out to be.
Hi Lisa,
Glad you’ve moved beyond the AC. Has he tried to make any contact?. As you, I am so thankful for this site, the education I have received is invaluable and helps in every aspect of life, most especially with men.
Thanks for the compliment! Sadly, I haven’t dated. Pathetic, huh!!! Sounds strange but it is very difficult to meet datable men in NYC; seems to be an issue for most women and men I know . Very single city. I am definitely open and if the right one comes along wonderful, if not, then life is still wonderful. What about you?
Thank you, Thank you Thank you for this, I am downloading the book today, At least most of you were in longer”relationships” with these eum’s I am sitting here freaking out over a guy who “dumped” me after 2 dates, we got in touch a few weeks later, talked about how he was overwhelmed, and overreacted, moving forward, he said hed call, did call, and acted pissed off on his voicemail, that I didnt answer (I was in the bath) I returned his vmail, and I have not heard since, (one week) This am he turned his myspace to private, (of course I was looking 10 times a day) I feel so humiliated that my ego wont let this go, I am acting like I was married to the guy or something, my girlfriend even got mad at me yesterday cuz I was comparing this to her 6 year relationship.. can u say crazy town?? I m just grateful this site is here and I look forward to moving on with any shred of dignity i still have in tact. (If any one has any extra words of encouragement for staying the hell away, they would be appreciated!! All the best to all of us going thru this……
PS: Would luv to know others’ thoughts (if any) about the seeming OTHER perspective on this issue.. an e-book program I have seen advertised on the dating sites like Plenty Of Fish Cristian Carters, Catch him and Keep him?? Where can I contact host and where would be a more appropriate place for that question? Thanks! It seems to try to teach women how to become aware of there ” self sabatogeing behaviors” from a male perspective, I would like to know more, if I buy, its v. expensive, I also dont want to end up a man-hater either , this site is useful for getting over it I just want to be able to recognize male perspective as well..
@DD As the owner of this site, I just want to clarify whether you’re actually suggesting that the posts written on this site is about getting women to be man haters? Thankfully there are many readers that recognise that this is far from being that and thanks to both Gaynor & Karen for their great responses. Also I am in no position to recommend Christan Carter’s ebooks or site so it would be best to contact him directly if you have questions as this site has nothing to do with him and he has his own perspective. You have to decide what you want and what resonates with you. Thankfully, I have many readers who don’t consider this man hating – in fact…you’re the first to suggest it!
DD,
I think the literature and info provided on this site are about regaining self-esteem and understanding why we place ourselves in toxic situations- You cannot ‘catch’ a man until you deal with your own issues, or else you will be repeating the same scenario over and over.
I would be a little concerned over obsessive behavior after two dates.
NML, you said….”We’re back at the juncture again where we think that deciding that we love or feel something about someone creates an automatic IOU”.
This struck a cord because I think I gave myself in an effort to please the “clown” only to discover that he believed I was doing it because I wanted to….even if it did require coaxing or lying on his part. In the end, I’m the one responsible for what I give away (whether physical, emotional, or material). It doesn’t make recovery any easier but at least I know that I’m in control of what I give to others. And if I’m giving to someone for any reason other than “I want to….with no expectations in return” then I need to re-think my motives. Thanks for the insight NML
DD,
Gaynor is right. I would be more concerned about dealing with and understanding first, the underlying issues that makes us obsess about these types of men/relationships. I actually bought the Christian Carter tapes and all his “theories” on how to catch a man about three years ago (before I ever even knew this site existed) and before I realized that I was after the wrong advice. For women (and men) like us that tend to have bad relationship habits to start with (and yes– obsessing about a relationship over only 2 dates is considered a “bad” habit) I think we need to first work on ourselves and what makes us attracted to these types of relationships and “triggers” within us these insecure feelings that turn into the constantly checking our email, vmail, myspace accounts, etc..etc..etc… Also— why you are basing so much of your self worth on someone you only just met and have hardly spent any time with? You will find that underlying all of this is really a lack of self esteem and self love which is the deeper issue that needs to be addressed. If we really valued and loved ourselves… we would not be caring why the guy didnt call us back or what he is doing now or when he will call us next. We would simply “know” that these types of people are not worth our time especially if they are not recipricating so early on in the relationship. The focus needs to be turned away from “their perspective” because that is what gets us in trouble and gets us stuck. The questions you should be asking and working on is what is it about yourself that makes you continue to “want” someone whether either
a) they are no longer recipricating or
b) they have showed you in one way or another that they are not interested.
This may sound harsh at first……..but keep reading through the different articles and posts on this site and you will see what we mean. Christian Carter isnt going to help you with that. He is only going to tell you how much more accomodating you need to be to these types of men, or how you should position yourself so that he will “WANT” you more and you can manipulate this situation and this man to give you what…….. a CRUMB? Trust me, if this man is genuinly interested or likes you……. he will call you. If not, why would you want to know how to “GET HIM” to do it? You know rejection is hard for everyone, and I think we can all relate to liking someone or getting excited over the prospect of meeting someone new and the potential of something emerging from that, but when the other party is no longer reaching out, or for one reason or another doesn’t seem as delighted as we do, that is when we need to check ourselves and make sure that we dont start investing our time and energy into something that isnt really there. Its really not worth it and that is what we are trying to tell you.
Karen,
You really hit the nail on the head!!!
I should have said earlier, that obsessing over anyone after any period is unhealthy!
Gaynor, no more contact from the ex MM, I sent him a note saying if he ever contacted me again, I’d get my friend who is a local sherriff involved. (The married guy was not a weirdo, and I’m not afraid of him, but I was sick of him popping in my life while he was still married while I was trying to get over him and move on). So, the threat worked. I hated doing it, but it worked. And NML’s advice to “mean it even if you don’t feel it yet” really helped.
Amy, I NEVER advocate divorce. I think divorce pretty much sucks whether your the person initiating it or the one on the receiving end… but for me, it literally got to the point where I just didn’t even want to get up in the morning…. sleeping in separate beds for the last 4 years, listening to my married girlfriends talking about how much their husbands want them and find creative ways in the bedroom, etc.., also my ex-husband didn’t want me to work outside the home, and we were so poor…. I was literally on the brink of feeling like I was losing sanity. So, I finally got brave enough to create a new life. It took about 3 years of really really hard work as I had to move, get a full-time job (after being out of the work force for a long time), find after school child care for my kids… but little by little I started finding that I was capable of taking care of myself and the kids really well without the added burden of a guy who just wan’t available for a real relationship. After the divorce and still, the dad took them every Saturday night and Sunday day because that was his church day, and the only day that he didn’t work, and I was okay with that arrangement. Now the kids are 16 and 19, so they come and go between houses as they please. They mostly stay with me, but the do love their dad, and I’m fine with that. He tries to pay child support, but his employment situtation is up and down, so it isn’t always consistant, but I’m making just enough money now that I don’t freak out when he can’t pay
If I can say something encouraging, (but it might sound really weird), a friend of mine whose situation sounds similar to yours, her husband was ill for a long time, and when they were 64 years old, he passed away. She stuck it out even though she thought often about divorcing. Immediately after his death, she joined a local dating site for older people, met a great, 70 year old man, fell in love, and they have been happily married for 3 years, and she always tells me that the short beautiful time they’ve had together has made up for all the rough years!
So, I don’t know what to tell you…. maybe ask your kids about it. Your husband has been very selfish (as was mine) to not listen to your needs and desires, and your kids are big enough to help and be your advocate. And I think there are ways to get the point across without just totally calling their dad a BIG DICK! (haha… not the best expression maybe)
I’m just about 46 years old, and I am not able to find a “normal” guy to date, but my pastor and some of my good friends (who I know are good judges of character) are keeping their eyes open for me. Until then, I’m pretty happy with my life. I could go on and on about the transition from the divorce until now and the journey, but this probably isn’t the place! Sorry so long.
Children do not a relationship make. Show me the scientifically based study, that had a broad sampling pool, and adjusted for personal opinion that there is the remotest bit of evidence that staying together for the, “children’s sake,” is actually a healthy choice.
I for one would like to say that my family would have been better off if my parents had not stayed married. While their is opinion after opinion about this, and religious attitudes and opinions abounding, show me the study that has been carried out that at least attempts to demonstrate that families might be better off by not staying together.
My own relationship issues stem from an unhealthy dynamic between my parents. Anyone who spends more than five minutes with them can tell you that. The bickering is non-stop. And while it isn’t loud and obnoxious bickering, it is very clear that the vortex created by each of my parents engaging without being connected is just ridiculous.
My reaction to this type of dynamic was to never bicker. Therefore, I kept too quiet when my needs were not met.
Who did I marry, a man whose parent’s didn’t bicker, but they in essence, lived separate lives.
How in the world would anyone think that ours would then be a happy marriage? Why did we get married? It is because it is what the culture of middle America expected us to do. I’m not going to deny that I loved him and I still do, but we are just not meant for each other, and neither of us seems to want to deal with the reality of moving on. What is that about? Couple after couple, when they are honest, repeat these same types of scenarios, over and over and over and over and over. Then, when pointing out that we do have choices, we all, including me, say, “Yeah, but, I’m staying in the relationship because ______________.”
As for asking your children as to their opinion: I don’t get that. That brings a third party into what should only be a dynamic relationship discussion. While it is the duty of the parent to take care of their child, it is not the child’s duty to take care of the parent in the world of romantic and love relationships. It is quite honestly asking children to choose, based on what may or may not reality.
Wow Lisa, that must have been eating away at your confidence as a woman. Have you ever considered if he might be gay?
Wow, Thanks, Gaynor and Karen,
Believe me , I am extremely concerned with my obsessive behavior after two dates, which is why I’m here.. i took myself out of dating for 2 years just recently because whether it was a 10 yr. marriage, 1 date, or 3 month relationship ALL of this is familiar. Absent father blah blah… was in therapy 6 years I am just so surprised and worried here because this is the first prospect I liked it took me by compete surprise, I thought the distance from the scene would have helped but it seemed to make it worse, I was out of practice, and forgot what was appropriate behavior, I came on really strong and (of course he came on strong) I was planning the wedding (figuratively) on the second date, and blowing hot and cold myself for the nonexistent 3rd date. I just thought I wasnt learning anything anymore by staying out of dating so i was “dipping my toe back in” apparently I immediately backflipped off the deep end. lol I appreciate your posts, they ring true and I get it about self care, self esteem etc. its just hard when every other area of your life is pretty much together but this one, would prefer to feel hopeful rather than jaded.. and i’ll try not to feel judged.. its hard that reaction was unexpected because I wont give someone Im not interested in a second glance and he came along and WHAMMO!! clearly I have a LOT of work to do.. This is helping, as well as the advice about the Christian carter thing. It reeks of “If only you were different/better/less insecure/ u could make it with these asshats. I appreciate the review. And no Im not so far gone that I dont see that he is not worth it, its more of a wtf seriously? again?? thing…. Ugh!!! And the hot sting of shame and rejection is upon me again, Thank goodness for this site!
Thank you Lisa. I really do appreciate your viewpoint here…I don’t think anyone who has not gone through the isolation and coldness in this type of marriage would completely understand. It does leave you feeling very empty.
As for MM ….. I am so happy for both of us that they are part of our past. My NC started in January after about a year of on and off failures on my part to stay away. I’m doing much better now.
You’ll meet someone….better late to a good relationship than soon to a bad one. At least we will both be wiser about our needs and what we are looking for in a relationship.
Thank you again for the response and the support. Means the world to me.
Truth Hurts, it really hurt for a long time, but now that I’m many years out of it, it just stings a little, but doesn’t wear me out mentally and physically, you know? And, other people have mentioned the gay thing, and I can’t tell yes or no, but I know because of his beliefs, even if he were gay, he wouldn’t do anything about it. I feel bad for him if that is the case. It is sad. He isn’t an evil bad guy, but just very distant and into himself.
Hi Elizabeth,
I liked your points, especially the part about there not being a study to show that sometimes divorce is better for the children….
If you were referring to my point about having Amy talk to her children and asking their advice, I don’t know if you realize her kids are older, adults who have their own lives now… I would never suggest talking to young kids who are still under the mom’s care, but I understand your point. In that case of the kids still being young, I wouldn’t bring that heavy stuff on the kids, either.
Hope you and your husband can figure it out. If I understood your post correctly, you’re still married?
Yes Lisa, we’re still married…31 lonely years. My children are 23 and 29….so not really children at all. (29 y.o. is married himself)
Thank goodness about 10 years ago (at age 50) I went back into the work force. (after being home w/kids and Alzheimer suffering mom). My husband is so anti gay that it does make me wonder. But, like you, I know he would Never act on it (if it is indeed a repressed desire).
Amy, if you get a chance, go look up and listen to the song “Alone in the Universe” from the musical “Seussical.”
It is sung by 2 characters in the play who are really different than the rest of the world and who feel so alone, but then they meet each other in an unlikely way and realize that they are similar and they are not alone anymore.
That’s you and I.
(In a normal, nice way) It is good to finally find someone who has walked in your shoes when you have felt so alone for so long.
Have a great weekend! I have to get off the computer and do “stuff.”
It wasn’t in response to your comment per se, but your comment did trigger my response.
Yes, I am still married, and yes, I was also involved with another man, while married. Thing is: Both are EUMs, but both are very different. My husband, mimimally so, but after years of the little things that I didn’t even realize I was missing, I missed. Hence, the separation. And, really, I got involved with the other guy when I had no intention of having any relationship until I got my own life figured out. I believe the other MM is actually an EUM who is a pretender. In other words, upon reflection, he mimicked my emotions. There is a whole pathology there, that really threw my radar off.
I am not at all defending my behavior, but I was separated while involved. Here’s the reality for me: Separation is just another term for indecision. I needed to clean up my own house rather than just removing myself temporarily.
As for the kids, I still say: keep them out of it. I have friends who are agonizing over what this might do to their children who are married with their own – who themselves are playing the guilt card – by saying, “But what about Christmas? They need you to be there.”
The adult children might, might visit their own parents a total of 8 days per year.
These cycles go on and on and on. The reason for my ultimately returning home: afraid to disappoint my parents. What is that about?
Amy, isn´t 31 years of loneliness long enough? Do you feel obligated to stay with your husband? Do you think your children, family and others will judge you if you´d leave? Are you scared to be alone? Do you feel you´ve made your bed and now you have to lie in it?
Maybe you should seriously look into these kind of questions. You don´t have to make a decision about leaving right now but you can make a decision to research your motives and options.
It would be a shame to spend the rest of your life feeling lonely… you sound like a great woman who has a lot of love left in here to give.
NML,
That is not what I am suggesting at all.. I did in fact read through older posts on different subjects and saw many comments to the effect of ” assclown scum one post said to hell with them all etc. It was the one with the bible quote… General negativities toward men(in my brief view) no doubt based on these painful experiences. Who wouldnt have them after what we feel weve been through, These are these posters’ perspectives and I do not in any way think this site is suggesting that victimish perspective , on the contrary, so far I have felt very empowered by everything I have read here.. I am considering purchasing your e book today in fact. Thanks for answering, I dont know what resonates with me so i was just inquiring, my gut tells me this is the way to go.. I am just simply wary of LOOKing for the “assclown in every guy I meet I would like to not be jaded and be able to see the decent forest ones for the eum tree ones:) and run away a little faster when it goes like this.. I feel I could as well as any deep psychological work that needs doing also refine my “skills” and eliminate anything I am doing to subconsciously sabatogue the process. I get that the OTHER perspective is that if we all werent so “emotional” and “needy” there wouldnt be a problem. That is exactly how I feel when Im obsessing so I admit the ads were inticing.. (and a self esteem downer!) haha
Everyones responses are much appreciated, soo much food for thought and way better than taking up mental real estate for that fixer-upper… All the best!
@dd,
I haven’t written on the blog in a long time (but do check in most days). This site is two pronged (imho). 1) It will help you recognize when an assclown is Really an assclown and give you the tools to deal with almost every situation (it has been invaluable for me) and EUM’s that maybe you didn’t have before to deal with such men;
2) The truth hurts. I will have to say (I am not speaking for everyone on this site) for me I had to look within as to what drew me to these kind of guys time after time and confront the issues I had. It has not been easy and opening old wounds, I cannot lie, hurts incredibly and has been a hard road to walk but it has opened my eyes to what has held me back from healthy relationships, not just with men but friends, family, etc.
If this situation, dating twice, falling in love, throwing yourself at someone and obsessing over it (one of my old habits) is a consistent theme it may be time to take a Good look at the past. If you can’t do it by yourself through journaling (my road block) or opening up to a good friend or family member, I would highly recommend a professional that you trust and feel comfortable enough with to spill your guts to and release whatever it is that is holding you back.
There are many people on here that have incredible insight on almost every subject NML writes about and can be a great support system for you to deal with the topics at hand, dealing with a history of hurt is another subject. Over time what you learn here Will be invaluable in the future. Sometimes it is us and not them!
Best of luck…Gail
Hi, everyone. I’ve been thinking about posting for a while, and this is the topic that most fits my situation. NML, thank you so much for your site. Your posts and the responses by all the people here are wonderful. I’m 47, no serious boyfriend in years, and finally decided to start dating again last fall. I fell completely for a charming, younger Facebook player who, I thought, was sincere–but really, it was my own inexperience with this kind of guy (as well as being completed “dickmotised”) that lead to my complete heartbreak. There were a lot of red flags, many ups and downs, and we only actually saw each other 8 times over 3 months. After he ignored me over Christmas for 3 weeks straight, I sent him an email wishing him the best. He responded with an apology saying that I was wonderful and that he never meant to hurt me but that he was afraid things were getting too serious. I thanked him, and was glad to have ended things on a nice note. Two weeks later, he texted me that he missed me and wanted to see me and then wanted to see me regularly–like, once a week! I actually thought that this was a great deal–so we got together, had our best night ever together–and what do you think? He never contacted me again! I emailed him twice–and that was 2 months ago. One sad note was that as we met on the street that night he was calling me on my cell. He never turned off the phone–so 2 minutes of our greeting and playful banter was captured on my voicemail. I’ve saved and resaved it for two months; but today, I’m letting it erase from the system.
I shed so many tears over this situation—and had to try to start getting over him all over again after I agreed to see him again. Looking back now, I see how ridiculous all this was–and how it was necessary for me to get a good jolt of reality. Now, I am able to start dating again with an eye for the red flags, a desire to take it slow, have fun and see things with clear eyes.
But I wouldn’t have gotten through this without this site. Some days and nights, the only thing that kept me from texting him “why, why, why did you do this to me?” was logging on to Baggage Reclaim. I see, too, that I did a lot of it to myself by not understanding the situation. Thanks to all of you…
This was a really helpful post. I have been involved with an EUM coworker for nearly two years. He is just 28 I am 35. Tons of hot and cold flashes. Boyfriend behavior but unable to commit. Though we have never officially been boyfriend and girlfriend. We go for periods of time of dating and when things become closest he vanishes. But still calls/texts/writes nearly daily, even then. (We do not always work in the same office) I feel like I am always on hold. The last episode was during a business trip where he wanted to sleep clutching one another every night but remain platonic. He tried initiating sex several of these nights then would quickly recoil. One night we became extremely physical, though he would not kiss me. This is the first time that has ever happened. Totally shocking and obviously not healthy or acceptable.
I asked him about it. And asked if he did not want to kiss me because of us or because he was seeing someone else.
It was because of us. He said he loves me so much and wants to do things that bring us closer together.
What I have witnessed in his behavior is big love and big fear.
It is possible he has been seeing other people all along. I have tried to do that for my own sanity. And in social situations he tries to interrupt any social interactions with other men that are potentially flirtatious.
I know I need to really move forward. Big time.
But there is a small part of me that keeps thinking with time and effort it will shift. Sometimes it does, then the rug is pulled out all over again. I am fearful if I move forward he will suddenly grow up and be ready. I know that is irrational. Just trying to acknowledge my fears so I can move past them.
Bryan,
It’s been almost two-years it’s time to move on. This guy sounds like he has A LOT of issues that will not be corrected anytime soon. He has shown you that he is not capable of being in stable relationship with his on/off again behavior but what really stands out is a complete lack of intimacy on any level.
I would not read too much into his perceived jealousy, if he wanted to be involved he would have stepped up to the plate long ago. Many of these men will come around when they feel that they are losing their fallback girls, as they will no longer have someone to stroke their ego or have sex with.
Don’t waste any more time with this fool!
Gaynor.
Thank you for your reply. I should clarify, over the past two years we have actually been episodically extremely (and functionally) intimate. And actually it was a very kinetic part of our connection. With all kinds of “I love yous” stirred in. But still, no commitment.
This last episode of sex/ no kissing was completely new. And totally shocking.
That said, yes, he does have a whole boatload of issues. I could write a book, in fact. But why waste my time.
Bryan,
Read your first paragraph once again. Just because you have sex does not mean there is intimacy in the relationship, intimacy comes when you commit yourself to someone else. There can be a billion “I love yous’ ” w/o the commitment it doesn’t mean much of anything.
Thanks Gail and everyone!
That was the cutting clarity I needed. Thank you, Gaynor.
Great post. I’m definitely guilty of making up relationships in my head. I recently experienced it and saw this pattern clearly for what it was. I have a friend that I have had a crush on for almost a year. He’s about 11 years younger than me. We get along great and he is a really good guy. Many of my friends thought he had a crush on me. Over the past few months I considered telling him but would always chicken out. Anyway, one night we were all out and had had quite a bit to drink and I decided to tell him. He had no idea that I had a crush on him.
End result is, we are still friends and get along the same way that we used to. However, he is not reciprocating my romantic interest. I left it with him that if he finds himself having similar thoughts to let me know.
Truth of the matter is, he doesn’t. I can tell he’s very flattered, and I know he likes me as a person. But he just doesn’t think of me in that way.
So, it’s disappointing, but, being realistic, I know that he and I wouldn’t be a good match as a couple. I’m not allowing myself to reach out to him right now so our interactions with each other occur when we run into each other or when he reaches out. That’s hard because in the past, before I had told him I had a crush on him, I could reach out to him and it would be fun to talk with him. But, I know myself and I know how I can chase men I like, and how I can read more into their actions or words because of my own feelings. And I want to change those behaviors in myself.
Do I regret telling him? No. If I hadn’t I might be keeping this fantasy potential relationship or crush in my head.
Sure it’s a shame that I seem to have lost my “buddy” at least for the time being, but I am not looking for a “buddy”. I am looking for and want someone to share my life with.
Letting go of relationships that don’t exist is tough to do, but I find once I’ve done it, life is just so much easier and pleasant. If you stop chasing after people that either don’t want you, are ambivalent about you or indifferent, you automatically feel better about yourself.
When you focus on the people that want you, like you and want to be with you, you feel better and are more apt to attract someone who truly wants to be with you. I think (and I am only now just beginning to realize the full power of this), if you spend your time chasing after something or someone that you can’t have or doesn’t want you – you are creating an image of yourself that says to people “I don’t think I’m good enough, I don’t like myself very much”.
Two other men I met this winter fizzled out. Normally I would have accepted their crumbs or engaged in a chase after they stopped being interested or it was obvious that they were “lukewarm” about me. Or, at minimum, I’d beat myself up and wonder what I did wrong. This time, I have just accepted it and moved on with my life.
For lent, I gave up being jaded about men and relationships. I have to say – it’s helping me. Instead of getting depressed from romantic disappointments, I merely just say to myself “it just wasn’t meant to be. They were a nice guy, but it just wasn’t right for both of us.” and I move on with my life.
One thing that NML said is how if you have these “non existent relationships” you are actually very unavailable yourself. I agree with that. Over the past month or so, I am noticing that I am engaging in much more eye contact with people when I socialize. Also, I have been notice that many of my friends don’t hold eye contact when socializing. And many of those friends are eternally single. It’s just an observation, but I am hoping that with my engaging in more steady eye contact – it’s a signal that I am opening myself up emotionally and becoming more available. Here is hoping.
Have a great weekend all!
Ashley
Bryan,
Sorry I had to be so strong in my answer, unfortunately we are all learning this lesson from the site.
The most important thing to remember is that if they are not backing up their words (I love yous and promises) with actions they are not being sincere. A man who loves you will do whatever is necessary to incorporate you into his life, not make endless excuses why they cannot.
I love this site! NML you have been an awesome help
Reading this post reminds me sooo much of the movie “500 Days of Summer” – It’s currently showing at US film festivals and will have its major US release in July, hopefully in the UK too! If you get the opportunity to see it, I strongly recommend it b/c of its honest portrayal of emotionally unavailable individuals and those who love them. A lot about how easy it is to project our own desires & expectations onto others who can’t live up to them… instead of continuing the search to find someone who is at the same place we are/looking for the same thing.
Gaynor, please know I really, really appreciate the strength of your words. No apology necessary. It is totally invigorating. I am here for health and positive change! So thank you.
I keep bootcamping myself in regard to him (turning off my phone, not returning messages, drawing more defined boundaries, having other plans the night of social events he may attend etc.) but it is difficult because we often have to work directly together and we share a large social group. (The after work small focus group meetings are the worst. I literally have to run out the door if I don’t wanna get sucked in by his tractor beam)
Mutual good friends keep rooting for him to get his act together “he is such a wonderful guy and clearly loves you, but…..” For a long time, their forgiveness of the dynamic and comments of it is “unusually complex—not just a ‘he’s just not that into you’ situation” contribute to pliancy in my resolve. And I am fully aware I am allowing for that. I obviously like him a heap, I have been too forgiving of the dynamic’s mood swings. In my heart of heart’s I feel like he has large feelings for me, but is not *in love* with me, and feels too fearful to say those words and follow through consistently.
I met a friend of his from high school recently who said in front of us “EUM would get these enormous crushes on girls and stall-stall-stall, never follow through, the girl would get frustrated, find a new boyfriend and then EUM would make a career out of hating that guy.”
That pattern is deeply true. Other than his one and only relationship. Which also eventually resulted in him breaking up with her, her meeting another guy, and EUM talking about how the new guy stole her from him…..for the next three years.
So you see: Issues. And I see them too. I am realizing I love him much more than he loves me. And that I have a different set of expectations for him. While I hope to move toward dating each other, it seems he hopes to excise any glimpse of deeper emotional and physical connection, neutralize the dynamic, and transition toward friends. And most likely hopes I will meet another man so he is “off the hook” so to speak.
Bring on the tough love. It seems that I cannot afford to have even a touch of forgiving boundaries in this situation any longer. I am on really good terms with the other people I have actually truly dated in my life. I know that if I can push myself through to the other side of this mess, that I can be mature, kind, and no drama about this as well. But in the interim, during this exorcism, so to speak (haha) I need to be much more distant and unavailable. I feel too vulnerable otherwise.
This on going feeling of devastation and this protracted feeling of rejection is exhausting. I have been enabling it in myself for too long. I see the moments when I take good care of myself and contribute in positive creative ways to my own life, the ache substantially wanes, but it still feels very tough. Not as lonely as not taking care of myself, and feeling rejected, however!
Now the greek chorus of friends are evening losing faith. One friend remarked how once I feel better I will wake up and see the line outside my door of great guys who have been patiently (and now impatiently, apparently) waiting for me to be ready to “ditch the zero.” It made me laugh. I feel very far away from being able to see that or wanting to fall for someone else but hope for it. In the meantime I resent the fact that with each day I focus on EUM I stall an opportunity to be with someone great and more than willing to love me so much right back.
Bryan,
I loved your honest post.
I don’t know how old you are, but if the guy just isn’t showing signs of being “sure” about a relationship with you, how many months/years are you willing to wait to see if it will turn around?
I used to wait. I used to “try even harder” to be prettier, to be more patient, to do things his way…. it always amounted to the same end, and I lost many years of my life to that vague ride of ambiguity. He wasn’t a bad guy either, and I do believe he had some sort of “love” for me, but not the “I’ll be there for you always, and you’ll be there for me, too” kind.
So, I know everyone here who has been in these kinds of situations and wished so much for the man to be able to give just a little more than he is willing to give, is rooting for you to be able to close this off and let him go.
I broke with my ex of 5 years a couple of months ago, and it was one of those relationships where I centered him, and was not taking care of myself. Ever since then, I have slowly attempting to date, it has not been easy. I find that my codependent habits tend to reappear, when I least expect it, and find myself emotionally attached to guys who were not too much to speak of. Although I wont allow myself to get physcial with them it takes weeks and weeks to get them out of my system… Which does not make sense, other than I am just trying to fill the void. As of late, I met this guy who every month or so contacts me we hang out for a bit, then he disappears again, we have fun and all, but I think I put up with this nonesense because I dont really want someone who is emotionally available, my ex was EUM and I dont think I know what it is like to be with someone who is emotionally there… this dating stuff is really scarry
Wow, perfect, timely post (as I just texted someone I shouldn’t have- he didn’t respond, and I know he’s not interested anyway, just a lot of physical chemistry on a couple occasions). It helps so much to hear of others going through the same types of things – obsessive behavior based on a non-existent relationship, and the inability to “get people out of your system.” I have had several decent relationships (each lasting about 1.5 years) but lately after a tough breakup almost a year ago have had just “nothing” ones, but I still think about the guys a lot. Time is the best thing I guess. I am very slowly learning to accept myself more and learn to “love” myself. I am thinking a lot of my issues come from being sexually active at 14, and those promiscuous traits keep back-firing on me now that I’m almost 30. But as mentioned above I view actually dating as “scary” also. I feel I may be EU especially right now as I am uncertain where I’ll be in a few months (finding job, moving), but a lot of it too, as discussed in other threads, is the fear that a “decent” guy won’t be exciting enough for me… I never saw my love patterns as an addiction to drama but I am more aware of that now– attachment to the fantasy, always trying to recapture those “highs” from a guy giving me attention. Thank you so much for this site!
Dancefire, I totally understand about it being hard to get someone out of your system. I posted yesterday about being able to move on because of this site–and then tonight (at the opera of all places), I felt such physical longing and sadness it jolted me. Just goes to show, you can’t get too confident. No doubt, time passing definitely helps. I was very behind the curve on dating and sex, so even though I had a couple of relationships, I never had that adolescent, giddy, hormone-driven first attachment to someone–I think I just went through it now, so that’s why it’s so hard to let go. Reading each other’s stories is so helpful.
I was walking with a friend the other night and told her how I felt so empty how I felt depleted by this EUM, how I had given all and was left feeling humiliated and foolish and in stupid tears for my ignorance. She said, think of it like this, someone inspired you, some one gave became a light that made you write poetry, jump for joy, dance, laugh, love, they were just the inspiration for you to become more you! take them out of the equation and you are left with you and all the stuff you gave him…. was you!… it is from you!!, inspire yourself to write poetry, to jump for joy, laugh and love and give your gift back to yourself. She was ten years younger than me, usually I am the teacher, so nice to receive a timely gift. Just have to remember it!!!
peace and love
De, that is not just beautiful but really helpful. Thanks
Thanks Fleur,
I love this site, and everyone who posts here… you are my people and my inspiration!
strength and love to us all.
This is a great site and I really liked this article alot. It describes really well the dynamic of being myself unavailable and then holding onto someone who is himself unavailable. I need to stop, and look inside of myself and discover what old pain, fear and sadness is inside that I am avoiding. When I can address the old feelings inside of myself, and cry the old tears and grieve the loss of time I have spent avoiding these feelings, then I stand a chance of moving on and having healthier relationships.
It all comes down to me, and what am I doing with what is happening to me? I just sent a final goodbye email to a man who had ‘disappeared’ after an initial strong interest. The random, friendly email kept me thinking he was ‘feeling something’ for me. Maybe he was, but not enough to actually do anything about it. It weighed on me heavily and I felt worthless – and yet I tried to learn from all this as I walked through it. Now, I just want to draw it to a close and to openly say goodbye, and to thank him for the things I learned from him and the opportunities for growth that I experienced. I did stay around too long, because I liked him, but I also put a graceful end to it and tried to honor the situation and the initial good feelings we felt for each other.
I feel like I have learned alot about myself from this experience, even tho it hurt a great deal. I have also felt deeply embarrassed that I allowed myself to be part of a situation where I was left hanging and with someone who was so disrespectful to me – not talking to me and fading away. That hurts, to see how I tolerated that behavior, or blamed myself. Ugh. I will ask more questions and also listen to my instincts more closely next time. In the end, this man was a good teacher and showed me the things I need to look at in myself. I am proud of myself that I have used it as an opportunity to grow and learn.
“When the student is ready, the teacher will appear!”
Sarah,
Why would you send a final e-mail to a guy that had “disappeared?” Why waste your time?????
Sarah – Thank you for writing your post. I write this with tears – you hit my nerve…I posted back on 4/2. I understand why you would write a note after the ‘disappearance’. I wrote one…there was a little piece of me that wanted my own closure. There was also a piece of me that wanted him to know I cared in the event ‘something’ happened and he ‘shut down’. Then I found this site a few weeks ago – I only wish I had found it BEFORE I started dating my EUM. It has been three months for me and I still have some bad days…really bad days. It is as if he wanted to make me feel like crap and punish me. To know there were so many great things and potential with the relationship and have the door slammed in my face – and to wonder if it was all a joke…and the questions: This person that I had so much faith in was a fraud? That I am the fool? Embarrassment? Humiliation? Dumped without cause like a street ho? and how on earth do you NOT get a little hardened from this? Now am I going to question everyone’s honor? Yes, I will grow and learn. Yes, this was meant to be…but it still sucks…
I don’t understand why you would say goodbye and thank someone when you have been treated poorly? Should we be thankful for the little crumbs we get from these guys? Are we expected to be grateful for someone who has mainly shown us disrespect ? No way!!!
Healthy is moving on from a toxic relationship and not looking back!
Gaynor,
I understand Sarah’s position. I’ve been there and “saying goodbye” verbally to him… i do it for myself, it’s a way to tell myself that I’m ready to move on, that he doesn’t control my actions or my emotions anymore, and that I’m back in control of my life.
I don’t find it demeaning or humiliating. Usually when one is involved with a**holes (at least it happens like that to me) I end up keeping myself in check all the time, can I say this? how will he react? will he get angry? will he leave? etc but saying goodbye is a way to put a full stop and you don’t care what they will think or how they will react or what they will say, you just say what you think and goodbye. you put the focus on you and not on him. you take the focus off his reactions and do what makes it easier for you to turn a new page.
I’ve done it and I felt much better and free for it. Saying goodbye to his face or ear (over the phone) made it easier for me to sit straight and think “I dont’ want him anymore, I don’t want to be treated like that anymore” and made it easier for me to let go of the anger and frustration because it put me in control of my life. It was me saying goodbye.
I’m sorry, I think that cutting contact is the best way to be in “control” I wish I had done the same. I too gave the AC the courtesy of a final talk, he didn’t deserve it and I think the reason I did it was so he would remember me in a positive light. UGGGGGG!! By not giving a final goodbye you’re clearly telling him and yourself that you “don’t want him anymore.”
NML, could you please give your input on this?
I think what I have the biggest problem with is thanking someone for a relationship when you were disrespected. Not good!!!!!
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