In a continuation from part 1, I explain what the characters of controllers, liars, manchildren, and assclowns can suggest about your own character and relationship habits:
What does a Controller say about you?
If you’ve found yourself with a guy who is a bully, manipulative, jealous, possessive, you aren’t sure of who you are as an entity making it very easy to shift around to accommodate those around you.
Controllers come in many guises. Some sneak up on you with little comments here and there that gradually build so that one day you suddenly realise that you’re not who you started out as. If you live in the UK and watch Eastenders, Peggy Mitchell looks ridiculous since she got together with the controlling assclown she’s engaged to, with a dodge hairdo and and hideous clothing, watching every word she says for fear of getting on the wrong side of him.
Some guys are more obvious with it. Some will tell you straight up that you don’t meet their exacting standards and in your mind, that sends a signal that if you work really hard to please him and do as he says, you’ll win him. He behaves like a shit and then has you convinced it’s your fault for being less than.
This happens to many women. If you’re with a controller, you mistake his pathetic need to control you, as his way of demonstrating that he cares.
You don’t believe that you’re all that special and when he starts controlling you, you take it as a confirmation and start believing him being in your life makes you a better person. He in fact, steals your character like a thief in the knight and ensures you’re dependent on him – for misery and for your ‘happiness’.
You’ve become co-dependent and even though he is the source of your misery, he can also feel like the basis of what you know about yourself making it very difficult to cut him off because you feel lost without him. If he is particularly abusive/nasty, you won’t have enough self-worth left to be able to recognise what a nasty, weak, chump he is.
He is at the worst end abusing you whether that is emotionally or physically and at the other end of the scale, which is still not great, he is engaging with you via control so you’re not free to be you.
If you tend to be involved with controllers on any level, there is a very self-destructive side to you and you’re likely to mistake the familiarity of fear and pain with love.
It’s likely that you will feel helpless and weak as this is a vicious cycle to extricate yourself out of.
What does a Liar say about you?
Ah, the wonderful world of living with the deceptive. From cheats, to Pinnochio’s that will swear black is white and white is black, to fraudsters leading double lives, these men are bloody nightmares! It doesn’t matter if he tells lots of little lies, or specialises in big ones, lies are lies. It’s very possible if you are with a liar, liar, pants on fire, that you’re likely to buy the line that he lied to you to protect your feelings.
If you knowingly involve yourself with men that have to be deceptive to ‘manage’ their relationships and you let them get away with it, it’s because you are in denial. You’re keen on fantasy, you’re keen on illusion, and you’re very keen on betting on potential because you buy into the lies as much as they do.
In short, being involved with a liar is about an avoidance of reality. You’re a master sweeper under the carpet and living the lie means you don’t have to face you either. If you absorb lies into your relationship, the world as you see it becomes very distorted because you have to twist everything else to fit the lie.
When things all go tits up as they tend to do with these men, you’ll say it’s because he let you down, didn’t come through on his promises, led you on a merry dance, and never did quite learn to tell the truth. This is true but in denying yourself and the life you live with a liar, the relationship fails because you’re not living a life that is real with the real you, and truth is ultimately stronger and greater than fiction.
What does a Manchild say about you?
Overgrown babies are the scourge of many a modern relationship. From emotionally unavailable men, to guys that are player playas, to those that deplete your financial reserves, or refuse to move out from their mummy’s and more, they bring a whole new meaning to the saying ‘Once a man, twice a child…’ If you find yourself with a manchild, it’s because you have instincts to overnurture plus you are likely to have issues with control.
You’re trying to raise men from the ground up because rather than deal with yourself and then go out and find a guy that reflects your desires, values etc, you take a shortcut, choose a ‘less than’ man and then try to turn him into what you want.
When he fails to meet your expectations, you feel cheated and unrewarded. Often you’re afraid of dating a decent guy for fear he may see the negative things you believe about yourself – dating down or as I put it ‘dating beneath you’ makes you feel better about your relationship experiences. Plus, when things turn out as the self-fulfilling prophecy indicated, it’s actually because you’re controlling your experiences and environment by knowing what negativity to expect.
Being with a manchild with the emotional age and capacity of soggy cardboard says a lot about you because whilst you are connected to many of your emotions, it’s in a negative way. If you dealt with your emotions in a healthy way and engaged in emotionally healthy relationships, quite frankly, you wouldn’t pee on these manchildren if they were on fire.
But manchildren are ten a penny out there and they cater to old beliefs that men don’t know they’re born and need the love of a good woman to realise their best. Raising a child is exhausting work but often rewarding. Raising a grown man that you shag and have needs from is soul and self-esteem destroying and often the people that get rewarded are him…and the next woman.
Many women who love manchildren are high achievers and very successful. Manchildren seem easier because you may believe that men on your level will feel threatened, or you secretly may not believe that you have what it takes to get a man like this. Being with a more evolved man seems quite scary and would put you out of control and because you have commitment issues and fear of losing control, manchildren in many respects seem easier.
With a manchild, his ridiculousness seems to trump whatever issues you have so these are great guys for cruising and hiding your own problems behind. Trust me, if you’re with a manchild, life is one big avoidance.
What does an Asshole say about you?
Assholes are grade A assclowns or ‘untouchables’. There are many assclowns out there that don’t recognise their behaviour for what it is, but Asshole Assclowns do. Any of the other assclown characters can just as easily slot into this category if they’re particularly nasty. Full on narcissists, beaters, habitual cheaters, criminal assclowns, full on fraudsters and in essence, men that a woman in her right mind would never touch.
These men may represent excitement and in other instances, they may represent the nastier side of what you have experienced in the past and what you believe about yourself. Your friends and family will despair of your involvement with a man like this. It’s just a shame that you don’t….
You are addicted to heavyweight drama. Him being a bastard is oddly exciting and you enjoy competing for his attention. You don’t think you bring very much to the table so he represents everything of what you believe is good in your life. In an odd way, you enjoy the uncertainty and you may sometimes enjoy the misery because you’re not comfortable being happy, or around men that don’t have mean tempers, a parole officer, or a penchant for running up huge debts and then running off.
You’re quite a big optimist. You’re very focused on what he’s like on his good days, which are actually few and far between. You too are in denial and you’re hiding behind the greatness of his assclownary.
I don’t think you believe that you can get out or that there is better out there for you. You’re a settler of the worst kind that believes she’s made a bed that she has to lie in.
As I said in part 1, this is about giving you food for thought and as always say, reminding yourself when you’re analysing him and playing back every moment from your relationship, that if you want real progression, you need to take the focus off him and bring it right back to you. When this is all a distant memory behind you and you’re standing in front of a good man or looking at yourself in the mirror and feeling happy and blessed about what you see and know about yourself, you’ll realise that in changing how you think about yourself and who you engage with, your life has become infinitely more positive.
Your thoughts? Do you recognise why your relationships are not working? Please share your thoughts!
Get ahead on understanding waste of space men and relationships with my ebook, Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. Find out more and download. Also find out more about my No Contact Rule web seminar, or if you need personal advice or analysis of your relationship, check out my consultation service.
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NML, a really great post today. I am focusing on me these days but it’s really hard. I am out dating and often I find men smothering me and it gets me down and thinking about my ex because I think shoot, this is what it was like dating me and then I get all bothered that we only failed because I was super clingy and needy. Just seeing my behaviour from the other person’s perspective has bothered me.
However, reading through this today I am reminded more clearly of what it was really like at the beginning of my relationship with my EUM. He chased me, told me he wanted to be with me, pulled this disappearing act… I was an emotional yoyo. So part of recognizing their behaviour helps to at least explain some of my very irrational decisions.
My EUM definitely dabbled in a few of these categories
I do find it hard still to believe that I somehow “chose” him without knowing it… my counsellor says the exact same thing as you do here. Even now, as time goes by I find it hard to remember my feelings but I do vaguely recall having a strange pit in my stomach when I met him, feeling like warning bells were going off in the back of my mind. The hard part about meeting nice men now is they don’t set off that sick feeling in the pit of my stomach which I think for years I have mistaken as some sort of excitment, when really it’s just the familiarity of anxiety and drama kicking in.
Great post. The ex-EUM was definitely a flip flapper with a touch of as$hole. Glad that I finally wised up!
Mine was about control, very subtle, he would pull back a little, I would chase more. He controlled when I got to see his “Lying, controlling, drinking, have a lot going on A**”!!
We would go out to eat, he would ask me, do you want to eat at Place A or B? I got to pick a place that would suit HIM either way.
Same with going to the movies, he got to watch what he wanted, but I got to chose!!
Controlling and lying goes hand in hand for me, what makes him overall an A**hole.
My ex-husband is a control freak. NML, I have to tell you Thank you, Thank you for opening my eyes, I “killed” two birds with one stone, it took me twenty years to see my ex husband for what he REALLY is and the other A**clown as well.
Mine is most definately the flip flapper with a little control freak mixed in. I fooled myself into thinking that his constant “who is that calling/texting you, when did you assign that ring, guess you are getting booty calls, who did you go out with this week, why are they calling you and how much did you drink last night” was a sign of caring. I thought the jealousy meant he really cared and let me tell you, I mean jealousy. He questioned every single ring of my phone and if I cut it off he accused me of hiding something. He would constant ask me if my phone was on silent or vibrate….It got so old and the accusations almost became unbearable. I finally got to the point where I told him that he must be doing something when he is out of town because the guilty are always the first to accuse. The flip flapping I can’t make up my mind..I love you but…ugh! It just turns my stomach and I know he doesn’t want me with anyone else because he has thrown fits over that to. Oh well, not my problem anymore.
I have to say honestly that my ex-EUM doesn’t fit into any of these categories, but he is absolutely emotionally unavailable. He was never unkind, controlling, or verbally abuse to me. When we were together, he opened doors for me and treated me with respect. But….the disrespect came when he would ignore me for days, weeks, and sometimes months–when he would say he would do something with me and then back out at the last minute, etc., and when he would take advantage of me and my friendship. My ex-EUM is not a bad person. He is just emotionally wounded and cannot connect with others in a healthy way. Perhaps if I could have fit him into one of these categories, I would have walked away a lot sooner than I did!
Trying, are you kidding?
A little control freak? He is a big control freak, re-read your post, asking you who called etc. None of his business, it is disrespectful, I would never ask a person “whom are you talking to”, that is bad manners.
I hate to say this, guys like him that travel a lot – especially going to the sames places, have other women.
Finally, I can’t remember your story, was yours more like a friendship, no se* involved?
Don’t cut him any slacks, if he took advantage of your friendship and ignored you for days or months, makes him a user as well.
I really needed this article today. This morning, my guy lied to me for the first time (that I know of). We’ve been together for 5 months (met online) and had the exclusivity talk about 6 weeks in. He never took his profile down from the online site and regularly accesses his account. I knew this 6 weeks in and asked him not to but never checked up on him after that talk. Last week, for whatever reason, I looked and sure enough, his profile is still up and he was active within the last 24 hours. I had the perfect opportunity to raise the issue with him without looking like I was checking up on him because the site sent me a renewal notice via e-mail. I forwarded it to him saying that after we agreed to be exclusive, I made my profile unsearchable and hadn’t accessed my account since and if he hadn’t already done so, would he do the same. He did not and, this morning, was still showing as active within the last 24 hours. He was just about to get off work (he’s on the night shift), so I texted him asking him to call me on his way home. When he did, I told him what happened and that I was disappointed, especially after sending him that message on Sunday. He said that he hadn’t done anything on there since Sunday. He said it just automatically signs you in when you sign into the Internet service provider parent just like it automatically signs you into IM. I told him mine doesn’t do that so I wasn’t aware that was what happened. He said, “I thought we discussed this before?” (We did but I didn’t check on him and didn’t think much about it since we had only been dating about 6 weeks at that point in time). I told him I didn’t remember, but if we did then I’m even more concerned that his profile is still active. I then said if you are still open to seeing others, please tell me because I don’t think we should be sleeping together if that’s where he’s at. He said if its that important to me, he will take down his profile!!! I explained that there’s not an option to hide your profile, just make it unsearchable. He asked how you do that and I couldn’t remember. He said he would do it if he could figure it out, otherwise I’ll have to show him.
I am now LIVID because I looked at the Help section of the OLD site and know he LIED to me about not having accessed his account because the site says the activity indicator is when the individual accesses the Personals site – not simply the Internet Service Provider parent site. This is the first time (that I know of) that he lied to me and my immediate reaction is to just cut off contact – no explanation, no nothing – just not answer his texts and calls. Unfortunately, my son’s Christmas presents are in his garage and I need to get them back.
Judy, I hate to say this but you do need to get your son’s Christmas presents back BUT is there anyone else that can go them for you? Maybe a friend that can contact him and get them (a nice guy friend)? He is a smooth operator isn’t he? I see so many posts from women on here that met their EUM online and that has made me to where I don’t even want to consider signing up for any of those sites. I wouldn’t trust them fron the get go!
Astelle, you are right..he is controlling. I thought something was off after the first week we met, he was out of town and texting me “you are probably on a date, oh well, none of my business” and that was only the 2nd week. He could have a woman/women all over for all I know. He has had the same job and been traveling for the past 19 years. I did bring that up one night a couple of months ago. We were drinking wine on the patio and when I made the comment he slammed his hand down on the table throwing my glass off and shattering it saying that when he gets done working he is to tired to do anything but go to the hotel and turn in…whatever! My father has told me that a lot of these types of men also wind up being phsyically abusive. He has never gotten physical with me but he did one night in a jealous tirade (over someone he accused me of sleeping with from the start of our relationship) throw a remote across the room and turn his recliner over. I had never seen anything like it and thought it was so uncharcteristic of him. He even told me one time that his ex-wife accused him of being a control freak. Hmmmm…why didn’t I see that huge reg flag?
Judy get your son’s Christmas gifts back and cut contact with this guy. Trust your gut! You know already now after a couple months in that this guy has outright lied to you. Do you need to stick around to find out more? He’s still cruising the site to see if he can find more women or until the next best thing comes alone. Everything about him screams lying EUM. Please Run!! Now!!!
Hi Astelle, yes, we were basically just friends, but I had stronger feelings than he did. And yes, I do agree, he is a user–which is why I have broken contact with him once and for all.
Mine was not controlling but had this great game he played. I didn’t really remember this until a few weeks ago and I realized wait this was about the time I suddenly fell for him. We went out and he asked if I was dating other people he said I am not but you are free to date other people as I want you to realize that I am the best guy out there. He pulled this another time near the end. He would tell me to cover up my body jokingly because he didn’t want all the boys hitting on me and then would say but I want you exposed to as many men as possible so that you know I am the best. I realize now he did this so he could date others even though I would say you are enough for me! But boy did I fall for him and how confident he seemed and I remember getting all insecure and saying “you don’t care if I am dating other people?” and he would say “jealousy is just not something I feel babe, I am too grown up for that.” Grrr!
Hi All,
Natalie got it all right again…. Unfortunately my last 2 relationships were all those things rolled into one! And, both EUM. I am completely damaged and I don’t really know how to make better choices – so I just don’t want to bother. I know this says more about me than them but how can I trust or believe in another man? One of them even got engaged to another woman whilst he was with me! Then treated us both like sh*t! I’m out of it all now and my problem was that I had believed in them and they had both lied and cheated and decieved me, members of my family, friends, colleagues etc… Now, I darent enter into another relationship for fear of being made a complete fool of again – I can’t let that happen again.
Better luck to everyone else.
This awareness was one of the first steps in my healing process – finally learning to see straight. He couldn’t have lied to me if I hadn’t lied to myself.
And so on. Uncovering who I was/am was vital – it led me to seeing what I had done – the patterns I’d fallen into unsconsciously my whole life.
You’re doing a great service with this blog NML. Nobody says it like you do – points out HOW to fix yourself first and why. You don’t just do platitudes – your specific points SHOW what’s going on.
Happy to say that, after my comments this morning, my guy deleted his profile from the online dating site.
Judy – what does it matter now?
Judy, despite the fact that he took the profile down. He blantly lied to you. What are you going to do with this knowledge?
Judy, you are dating for 5 months now and this guy was also shopping on the dating site the entire time, that would bother me more than the fact he lied.
Judy, he lied to you. How can you trust anything he says? He will probably to go another site . Get out!!!!
My eum was all the above I think but mainly verbally abusive & a narcissist on top!! (what a catch!)
lovingAnnie – you touched a nerve with me, your right – as he couldnt of lied to me so much if I hadnt of lied to myself!! -I uncovered so many of his lies it was untrue (I was like an FBI agent by the end of the relationship!!) but it didnt matter how many ugly untruths I found out, I just swept them under the carpet in blatent denial, I guess it was easier than facing up to reality – that I was with a maniputive, lying, cheating loser. I think the hardest part now is working on myself & all my issues – mainly why I was attracted to my eum and why I put up with such abusive treatment for so long, I had my first sesssion with a counseller today after being referred by my doctor because of my anxiety, even after one session it is very sad to realise that I have huge abandoment issues and as NML pointed out in her post, I mistake being in pain as being in love ive been that conditioned to it!!!
I
JUDY – my ex-EUM did the same thing to me and I wish I had listened to my gut and knew he was lying. I realized it after a few months of dating and he gave me the same stupid answer that he didn’t sign in, but when he signs onto the service provider it automatically signs in…I knew he was lying, but I wasn’t ready to come out of denial. He eventually took the profile down, but it was like pulling teeth for him to do it…I found him on another two dating sites in the months after that and he always had a BS excuse…the profiles were old and he forgot they were there, even though he was active on them. JUDY, I stayed with him on and off for 2 years…do not believe him…I wish I was smarter…ANY MAN WHO VALUES YOU AND LOVES YOU would be happy to take the profile down…he’s a playa and he’s full of it…TRUST US…we’ve been there…get out of it now…he’ll string you along for as long as you are willing.
Natalie…thanks for this post, it’s really thought provoking and it made me realize that I wanted to live in a fantasy world, not seeing my ex-assclown for the user, liar and manchild he was…I didn’t have enough self esteem to realize I can do sooo much better. I am educated, accomplished and have everything going for me…I just need to focus on believing in me…
God bless all of you!
JUDY…your man’s answer was almost identical to mine…it’s eerie…maybe he’s the same guy!!! Are you from NY?
“…if you want real progression, you need to take the focus off him and bring it right back to you.”
This article made me smile. Not only recognising a certain someone, in parts. But also seeing my own expertise at avoidance. Avoiding my potential to live well, look after myself, get out there and enjoy life.
I’ve done no contact now for the past week (after a lapse when I accepted his call). It hurts all the time, and I miss him. Especially at night.
I guess I was with a flip-flappy, controlling manchild.
But to be honest…..he perfectly suited where I was ‘at’ before I even met him.
Now I wonder if he shone a torchlight on some dark corners in my own life.
I am slowly recognising a few realities, and my behaviours. It’s uncomfortable, but I have been getting some feelings of kindness for myself, instead of the usual total frustration. : )
I have an opportunity now…
I can’t do anything about fixing his issues, but I can take responsibility for myself. Maybe I can start to practice that now…. I hope.
I just hope I can follow through with it. The lure of Drama and Distraction is still so strong.
One day at a time, I guess.
Honeyshy – Bearing in mind I’m no expert, I’d just say that building up trust in yourself first and foremost could be a starting point. Away from the dating scene.
Lia I know exactly how you feel, I’m at this exact same spot too. It’s been a rollercoaster for 3 years with a flip flopping, manchild with a touch of controlling. I just mostly find myself at a lost right now. All of these old negative feelings from way back seem to finally be full on in my face for me to deal with now. I’m afraid of being alone, but I know I can’t go back to my ex-EUM, nor do I want to. I know I deserve better, but it still doesn’t help with the emotions that keep cropping up in the meantime. I just feel angry, lonely, and ashamed of myself for staying with someone who so obviously cared so little for me. Right now he’s pushing me to quickly move out so that he can start dating. We just broke up the day after Thanksgiving, and my head is spinning. I’m totally stressed out looking for apartments, adjusting to a new job, and trying to get my grad school stuff straighten out. Not to meantion that I’m usually pretty bombed out during the holidays, and I live on the other side of the US away from my family. (I’d stupidly moved here with him almost two years ago, because he’d said he wanted us to be together, to start a new life together.) Only I got here and it was the same crap as back home, and I waited and waited for that engagement ring, only for him to finally say, “he’s not ready to grow up quite yet”. Yet from the beginning and through out he was telling me that he wanted marriage and children. Now its the last thing he wants. He’s already over this relationship and ready to move on, and I just feel like I’m spinning. I knew in the back of my mind that this was the real truth, yet I stayed, and now I just feel ashamed and embarassed to be way out here alone with no family or friends.
Judy- Please, don’t be fooled by him, his “consideration” for you in taking down the profile. Wow, he did such a great thing by taking down the profile after you said something. You said that he said: If it’s that important to you, he’ll take it down. As in, he would leave the profile up if it was up to him.
He was still active on it after 5 months. Even the fact that it was active after 6 weeks of dating is a red flag. He was keeping his options open, and getting his ego fixes from random women. This characteristic of his personality is not going to go away after he has taken his profile down. Please trust your original reaction and listen to us on the board who have been there, done that many many times over.
Thanks Astelle never really saw it before that it is a form of control when they give you a choice of things ie restaurant a or b but like you say its where they want to be not you …
Do people consider it a form of lying when your EUM says things and he just plain doesn’t follow through on it ?
I feel for you Nikki.. is there any way you can move back home? you aren’t the only one to know the real truth and act against it been there done that too and found myself isolated and alone ..
Hi All again… Thanks for your comment Lia. I’ve been away from the dating scene for about 4 years now, my last 2 EUM’s found me – at work – I wasn’t even looking and they do say ‘it’ll come along when you’re not looking’ and it sure did! 2 complete assclown, devious, lying, cheating, manipulating……etc….and everything else with bells on! But all this had helped me to know, without question, what I don’t want, and what i’ll never have in my life again. I sometimes think that I am ready to try again, to let another man get a toe into my life, I don’t want to be on my own forever and I know I’ve got to have a little faith somewhere along the line. I even took myself out of the social scene for the last few years and have remained firmly in my safe shell – on my own – but…. it’s our works night out this Saturday and we’re all going out to a few bars for a few drinks and merriment – i’m really going to try to enjoy it like I should, try to be sociable even with strangers, and try extremely hard not to attract my ‘next’ assclown! I’ll be thinking of all the support and advice from this fantastic blog and the rest of this fantastic site. X
It is a fantastic site.
I do feel for you Nikki, and Honeyshy, and everyone on here. Nikki – I hope you find a peaceful place where you can look after you, yes back home if that’s possible. Don’t be too hard on yourself. I very nearly moved in with my man and pursued the fantasy too.
It is difficult to to protect oneself without shutting down from new people. But I don’t think all men fall into NML’s categories above – there are good ones out there. (i hope?!) The point is, feeling good about myself first.
Isn’t it down to me which ones I choose to engage with?
I’ve definitely made some ‘interesting’ choices there in the past….
I’m just thinking that, for me, whatever state I’m at within myself determines the quality of the relationships I experience.
At least, I hope so. I’m still learning. : )
Well, once again I’m late to the party (computer issues) but…
When I told my parents I was getting divorced, my mom said, “Oh thank God! We’re getting our daughter back. He stole your personality you know.” Wow! What a wake up call. Most of my previous relationships with assclowns were with controllers. It was all I knew.
Part of me believed what they believed about me. It was a terribly hard cycle to break out of.
Judy, the first time I faced an issue like this I was 16 years old. I suspected my boyfriend of lying to me and my sister who was 19 at the time said “It’s enough that you suspected he’s lying you do not need proof.” This behaviour has continued with me for years and it wasn’t until my most recent EUM that I figured out why I have this constant quest for proof… I don’t trust myself. I worry that I am paranoid, just untrusting, anxious all the time. That may be but it means I am not healthy enough to be in a relationship regardless. However, I have also learned that I have really really good instincts that I do not trust. The fact that you feel the need to go checking up on this man is not good. I have checked my exes cell phone before, I have checked his email and never was I wrong… I always found out I was being cheated on… but it should not have come to that. So he took his profile down, it won’t end here. He has set a standard now for lying and once trust is gone it’s gone. Trust is not something that is gained, people always say this but I disagree. It’s there between human beings, we just assume the good in people and so long as they behaved that way we just go on common human decency. Once it is gone, there just isn’t a way to be “sure” anymore as you are aware what someone is capable of, the rules they are willing to bend.
I don’t mean to be blunt but I just don’t want you to be stuck with that feeling in the pit of your stomach for the rest of your relationship… those relationships where you find yourself always doing some sort of detective work just turn you insane.
Good luck.
Lia – I really feel for you, stay strong it will get better, but take each day as it comes- im now at week 3 – somedays I feel much better & ready to go on with my life, then some days (like today!) I feel so down, angry & upset – and well depressed if im honest!! I feel so cross with myself that I feel like im actually missing him after the way he has treated me and again like you said especially at night & with the Christmas holiday coming up, but I know really its because im adjusting to the calm and getting used to being by myself again after over 21/2 years of constant madness & drama!! this site & all these posts have really helped me over th past couple of weeks & when I feel down like today – reading over them takes away the temptation of doing something very very stupid!!
Thanks everyone for your great words. Despite everything I do plan on staying here in California. My family is back home in Florida, but the dsyfunction is just too great even with them for me to contempt going home. Regardless of my ex-EUM I do love leaving here. What this means for me is that it’s time for me to build a new network of friends and family here. It would be easy for me to just turn tail and run home, but I feel like I’m suppose to be here for a reason, even if he and I aren’t together anymore. I’ll know by the end of this week if I get the places I’ve submitted applications to, so once I have my own place, the truth healing can begin. Being here on my own will finally force me to deal with my issues head on. I have abandoment and being alone issues. If I stay I’m much more like to deal with them properly, so for those reason I will stay. I came for some of the wrong reasons, but I will stay for all the right ones, because I can’t keep running away from this stuff, this is what got me into these relationships with EUMs. More than anything I just need to refocus my life on me, because I’m more than capable of taking care of myself, finally.
Dazed – I have also been like you (think I mentioned in a recent post that I was like an FBI agent after my recent EUM) however if I think about it, I have always been anxious & untrusting – looking for constant proof of deception in all my relationships – its like im just waiting for all men to hurt me – & they do!! its very sad to realise at 30 years of age & 14 years of dating that I have very low self esteem & have accepted so much unacceptable behaviour in my relationships – not anymore!!
Yeesh, this article and all of y’all’s responses to it is like looking into a funhouse mirror room. I see myself, the ex-EUM, and our reflections of each other in all of y’all. Bizarre. And way unhealthy.
Mine was a flip flapper. Maybe a bit of the control thing, in that he decided when and how much relationship and at what speed. But it was all about never having to decide whether I was the right woman for him, never getting to the point of deciding.
I have some real flip flop indecisive parts too, but not in relationships (it seems to me tho I understand y’all are trying to teach me otherwise). Mine is what I want to do with my life/career. I spell “career” this way: “careen!” I just float from one thing to the next, doing part time jobs at the same time as full time jobs, none of them very successful. I just never want to decide on one thing ’cause something else might be more fun or less work. Now does that sound like somebody we all know, or what????
G-ahhh!!!
Mine was a liar. Liar, liar, liar. The worst part of his lying is not that he would outright come up with lies and say them to my face (which he was known to do toward the end), he was the kind of guy that manipulates truths in a sneaky, confusing way – so that his lies had elements of truth to throw me off the trail. His other preferred lying method was to just not say anything when he was confronted with the lie – just clam up so he didn’t have to explain. Toward the end he actually confessed that he was a master liar.
BBP,
What did he confess to?
BBP mine was a big liar too but it wasn’t so much lying as you say but leaving things out. Or he would make vague statements that I would read one way and then realize later that it actually left things open ended enough that I actually didn’t have an answer… or I would make statements and he would respond with a question. It was such a game! Oh it makes me angry just remembering it today.
Nikki – Good for you. Onwards and upwards.
NeverGBTA – Thank you for the helpful and kind words.
Gaynor – he confessed to being a “really good liar” – I got him to admit a lot of his shady behavior after we had stopped seeing each other and were trying to to the “friends” thing, when his guard was down – a night which led to me ratting him out to his other woman and the beginning of NC. Dazed – same thing here. The “leaving stuff out” was rampant back in the hot-to-lukewarm phase. Some doozies included “she doesn’t mean anything to me,” which was true, but he left out the part about not intending to stop sleeping with her, or “I’ll change my ways when I meet the right girl,” but not the part about just exactly who that girl might be – (his ex). When I called him on that behavior, I said “you don’t lie, you just don’t talk,” and he smiled in agreeance. RED FLAG!
Oh, and Dazed – I did a lot (like, a lot, a lot) of misinterpreting of vague statements as well. Bad combo for girls that tend to project and control. One of my favorite Radiohead songs says, “just cause you feel it, doesn’t mean it’s there…” Tough lesson learned.
BBP,
Glad you ratted him out. Did the other woman leave him?
Gaynor – Unfortunately for her, she did not leave him. Either that or she left him and then took him back because they are now bf/gf. I got labeled as “the psycho.” Ah the irony of being called a psycho. I take comfort in knowing that he is incapable of changing – it’s a matter of time before the next relationship crashes and burns and I’m proven right. This guy was a class-A narcissist, and although he has already given her more than he would ever give me, he’s never had a successful, normal relationship in his entire life.
BBP,
Better to be a “psycho” than to be with this idiot. Consider yourself very lucky!
Was he playing you both at the same time? What did she say when you told her the truth?
What do you mean he hasn’t had a normal relationship/
I mean that according to him, he hadn’t had a relationship where he hadn’t cheated on the woman he was with…not even the mother of his child who was one of the only ones he lived with. He is forty years old.
He was playing me, his ex, as well as another fbg that he’s been messing with for years. She never contacted me. I wrote to her. I haven’t heard from her since, but I’ve heard the word on the street and they are official. And yes, better to be the “psycho” in this case.
BBP – mine was a liar too – a compulsive one, he would lie about small things, huge things, he could stand with you face to face and say the sky is green and fully believe it!! and it would be with everyone, he lied about his past, how much money he made, his business, he even lied and said he was divorced when he hadnt even started the proceedings!! – gosh sometimes I feel so embarressed that I stayed with him so long as I caught him out so many times!! you are right though they will never have normal relationships – with anyone!! so just let the pyshco remarks wash over you – when I met my ex eum he used to accuse the ex wife of being a cheater who used him for money & took him for everything, funnily hes now saying the same things about me!! and the guy never so much as got me a valentines card!! – never mind spent any money on me – so you can bet your eum will end up breaking up with the women hes with now & labelling her a pyshco too!! I have also done so much reading on Narcissist personality disorder as my ex eums behaviour was like nothing I had ever come across (and guess what? – he had every trait of a narcissit) – its lead me to believe most EUM Men are narcissist disorder too – and believe me if you read up on this subject – you will realise you are fighting a losing battle being anywhere near these people!!!
Nikki – better to be on your own than living like the way you are!! I know it will be hard for you at first but these men are toxic, I can quite believe it when you said yours has moved on & wants you out so he can start dating – shocking to anyone ‘normal’ but these men are just very selfish and do not have any empathy at all, they move on so quickly as nothing they say to you is real anyway, when I moved out from my ex eum I slept on my friends floor for a week, was still having hospital treatment & was in a temporary job, I didnt think it could be any worse – but anything was better than being around the verbal & emotional abusive I had to suffer – its hard but once your away from it, you can start to put the focus back on you and realise the situation you were in for what it really – hopeless! I did have a down day today but still determind to never go back!! I promise you every week away from them NC becomes like a milestone & that horrible anxious feeling becomes less & less – im nearly at the end of week 3 and cannot wait for week 4!! good luck & stay strongx
Never, since you are sure that he is a Narcissist you should not have any down days just up days. They lie as soon as their lips are moving
He is an abuser.
Mine (ex husband, not the other a**clown) used to say to me: “I never said that” or “That is what You said”
Stingy, yeah, but not when it was for him, cars, clothes, bars.
For christmas – one year – he bought me a cell phone but no cell phone plan to go with the phone. I could write a book
Astelle-Are you serious? A cell phone but no plan to activate it? Now that’s a kicker – what a loser he was. You are better off without him or anyone else that treats you that way!
I read up a lot on narcissists too, I had never come across one in my life before. Or if I had I had never paid much attention to them. It was an eye opening experience. But then I ended up going back for a short time – but it didn’t last I just had enough and went NC. Best thing I have ever done, no regrets. Just hard to break the “relationship crack addiction”. But once that’s gone it gets easier and easier every day. And I get stronger every day too.
LoriG – I had never come across a narcissist before in my life either – or so I thought until getting honest in therapy and I realized that my mother was one. When you think of a narcissist, you think of these a-holes that only think of themselves – completely screwing you over with no regard for your feelings. For me, though, the acceptance of crap behavior comes from way back. Narcissists come in many forms and need people to adore and love them, anticipate their needs and accommodate. And while that doesn’t describe all EUMs, and not all crappy people are narcissists, that does describe a lot of women who have kids for the wrong reasons. When I’ve looked at myself and why the kind of behavior I’ve put up with in relationships is comfortable and acceptable (or why I’m attracted or attract crappy guys), I actually hear some of the same phrases from my worst ex-EUM (and other past, lame bfs) that my mother said to me as I was growing up – “I knew I would screw it up…I knew I would fail at being there for you…” “You’re so great, I could never be as great at “activity x” as you…(teary eyed)” “you don’t deserve me…” What I thought were compliments, flaws and weaknesses that I should forgive and sympathize were actually means to make me feel bad for them, control me, manage me down, make them feel reassured that they were not bad people… to refocus the energy I put into myself and achievements into their own – like vampires. Not every EUM is a narcissist, as NML said in a past post. And not everyone grew up with a narcissist like I did. But that behavior is sure is something to think about if you’ve been subject to an especially terrible EUM.
Astelle – that is classic!! & definitely narcissist and like you I could also write a book on mine as he also definitely was!! he finished with me on my birthday one year, asked me to move him with one time (in a desperate attempt to keep me after some particularly bad behaviour) and then the day I was meant to be doing it (and had moved out of my old place – he sent me an e-mail in work saying he had changed his mind & couldnt go through with it!!! i caught him in bed with his ex wife!! (apparentely they had just been sleeping though!!) – the list goes on & on.
BBP your right every EUM will not also be narcissit it seems to me like some of the behaviour goes hand in hand – very similar to you too, my mum was narcissist or border line personality disorder – I havent seen her since i was 16years of age – but grew up with her telling me that getting pregnant with me ruined her life!! – I must be a text book case of growing up in dysfuction and then gravatating to it further through out my adult life!! its only now at 30 years of age I actually realise what Ive been doing for the past 14 years!!
Hi Ladies, interesting posts here and I have been where all of you have been and empathize with you. I have always been attracted to narcissists and on that note, Natalie addresses, like attracts like.
If you read information about narcissists, usually the partner is an inverted narcissist who are more than willing to be a feed for their NS (narcissistic supply). I know I was now. These guys are miserable beneath the surface (and so is their partner) and according to the data on narcissistic personalties, may think that “she knows there is something wrong with me but yet she stays and puts up with me and takes it therefore, there must be something wrong with her too”. Bang, you become the supply that they desparately need to survive and maintain their “false self”. I am no expert on the subject but after this last guy I have done my research and realize that if I don’t want to be a magnet for these type of men, I needed to face the issues in my life and deal with them. Change the perceptionof myself. Get the tools I need, like asking the right questions upfront and getting out at the first red flag and stop being a magnet for these these guys. Just a few thoughts…Gail
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