In a continuation from part 1, I explain what the characters of controllers, liars, manchildren, and assclowns can suggest about your own character and relationship habits:
What does a Controller say about you?
If you’ve found yourself with a guy who is a bully, manipulative, jealous, possessive, you aren’t sure of who you are as an entity making it very easy to shift around to accommodate those around you.
Controllers come in many guises. Some sneak up on you with little comments here and there that gradually build so that one day you suddenly realise that you’re not who you started out as. If you live in the UK and watch Eastenders, Peggy Mitchell looks ridiculous since she got together with the controlling assclown she’s engaged to, with a dodge hairdo and and hideous clothing, watching every word she says for fear of getting on the wrong side of him.
Some guys are more obvious with it. Some will tell you straight up that you don’t meet their exacting standards and in your mind, that sends a signal that if you work really hard to please him and do as he says, you’ll win him. He behaves like a shit and then has you convinced it’s your fault for being less than.
This happens to many women. If you’re with a controller, you mistake his pathetic need to control you, as his way of demonstrating that he cares.
You don’t believe that you’re all that special and when he starts controlling you, you take it as a confirmation and start believing him being in your life makes you a better person. He in fact, steals your character like a thief in the knight and ensures you’re dependent on him – for misery and for your ‘happiness’.
You’ve become co-dependent and even though he is the source of your misery, he can also feel like the basis of what you know about yourself making it very difficult to cut him off because you feel lost without him. If he is particularly abusive/nasty, you won’t have enough self-worth left to be able to recognise what a nasty, weak, chump he is.
He is at the worst end abusing you whether that is emotionally or physically and at the other end of the scale, which is still not great, he is engaging with you via control so you’re not free to be you.
If you tend to be involved with controllers on any level, there is a very self-destructive side to you and you’re likely to mistake the familiarity of fear and pain with love.
It’s likely that you will feel helpless and weak as this is a vicious cycle to extricate yourself out of.
What does a Liar say about you?
Ah, the wonderful world of living with the deceptive. From cheats, to Pinnochio’s that will swear black is white and white is black, to fraudsters leading double lives, these men are bloody nightmares! It doesn’t matter if he tells lots of little lies, or specialises in big ones, lies are lies. It’s very possible if you are with a liar, liar, pants on fire, that you’re likely to buy the line that he lied to you to protect your feelings.
If you knowingly involve yourself with men that have to be deceptive to ‘manage’ their relationships and you let them get away with it, it’s because you are in denial. You’re keen on fantasy, you’re keen on illusion, and you’re very keen on betting on potential because you buy into the lies as much as they do.
In short, being involved with a liar is about an avoidance of reality. You’re a master sweeper under the carpet and living the lie means you don’t have to face you either. If you absorb lies into your relationship, the world as you see it becomes very distorted because you have to twist everything else to fit the lie.
When things all go tits up as they tend to do with these men, you’ll say it’s because he let you down, didn’t come through on his promises, led you on a merry dance, and never did quite learn to tell the truth. This is true but in denying yourself and the life you live with a liar, the relationship fails because you’re not living a life that is real with the real you, and truth is ultimately stronger and greater than fiction.
What does a Manchild say about you?
Overgrown babies are the scourge of many a modern relationship. From emotionally unavailable men, to guys that are player playas, to those that deplete your financial reserves, or refuse to move out from their mummy’s and more, they bring a whole new meaning to the saying ‘Once a man, twice a child…’ If you find yourself with a manchild, it’s because you have instincts to overnurture plus you are likely to have issues with control.
You’re trying to raise men from the ground up because rather than deal with yourself and then go out and find a guy that reflects your desires, values etc, you take a shortcut, choose a ‘less than’ man and then try to turn him into what you want.
When he fails to meet your expectations, you feel cheated and unrewarded. Often you’re afraid of dating a decent guy for fear he may see the negative things you believe about yourself – dating down or as I put it ‘dating beneath you’ makes you feel better about your relationship experiences. Plus, when things turn out as the self-fulfilling prophecy indicated, it’s actually because you’re controlling your experiences and environment by knowing what negativity to expect.
Being with a manchild with the emotional age and capacity of soggy cardboard says a lot about you because whilst you are connected to many of your emotions, it’s in a negative way. If you dealt with your emotions in a healthy way and engaged in emotionally healthy relationships, quite frankly, you wouldn’t pee on these manchildren if they were on fire.
But manchildren are ten a penny out there and they cater to old beliefs that men don’t know they’re born and need the love of a good woman to realise their best. Raising a child is exhausting work but often rewarding. Raising a grown man that you shag and have needs from is soul and self-esteem destroying and often the people that get rewarded are him…and the next woman.
Many women who love manchildren are high achievers and very successful. Manchildren seem easier because you may believe that men on your level will feel threatened, or you secretly may not believe that you have what it takes to get a man like this. Being with a more evolved man seems quite scary and would put you out of control and because you have commitment issues and fear of losing control, manchildren in many respects seem easier.
With a manchild, his ridiculousness seems to trump whatever issues you have so these are great guys for cruising and hiding your own problems behind. Trust me, if you’re with a manchild, life is one big avoidance.
What does an Asshole say about you?
Assholes are grade A assclowns or ‘untouchables’. There are many assclowns out there that don’t recognise their behaviour for what it is, but Asshole Assclowns do. Any of the other assclown characters can just as easily slot into this category if they’re particularly nasty. Full on narcissists, beaters, habitual cheaters, criminal assclowns, full on fraudsters and in essence, men that a woman in her right mind would never touch.
These men may represent excitement and in other instances, they may represent the nastier side of what you have experienced in the past and what you believe about yourself. Your friends and family will despair of your involvement with a man like this. It’s just a shame that you don’t….
You are addicted to heavyweight drama. Him being a bastard is oddly exciting and you enjoy competing for his attention. You don’t think you bring very much to the table so he represents everything of what you believe is good in your life. In an odd way, you enjoy the uncertainty and you may sometimes enjoy the misery because you’re not comfortable being happy, or around men that don’t have mean tempers, a parole officer, or a penchant for running up huge debts and then running off.
You’re quite a big optimist. You’re very focused on what he’s like on his good days, which are actually few and far between. You too are in denial and you’re hiding behind the greatness of his assclownary.
I don’t think you believe that you can get out or that there is better out there for you. You’re a settler of the worst kind that believes she’s made a bed that she has to lie in.
As I said in part 1, this is about giving you food for thought and as always say, reminding yourself when you’re analysing him and playing back every moment from your relationship, that if you want real progression, you need to take the focus off him and bring it right back to you. When this is all a distant memory behind you and you’re standing in front of a good man or looking at yourself in the mirror and feeling happy and blessed about what you see and know about yourself, you’ll realise that in changing how you think about yourself and who you engage with, your life has become infinitely more positive.
Your thoughts? Do you recognise why your relationships are not working? Please share your thoughts!
Get ahead on understanding waste of space men and relationships with my ebook, Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. Find out more and download. Also find out more about my No Contact Rule web seminar, or if you need personal advice or analysis of your relationship, check out my consultation service.
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Ok ladies so ran into him last night… we live in a small city it’s hard not to. Anyhow he shows up in a brand new car!!! The city I am in meanwhile is having a transit strike so I am stuck out at my house and can’t get around without staying at friends houses etc. Anyhow I am just having one of these days where since we broke up it seems life just gets better and better for him. He saw me and looked at me and gave me this smug smile while I stood waiting for a drive.
I know I should not care it’s just was such a bad day and there he was and all I could think is why are you not suffering why does life just seem to work out for you. This is a guy who was in debt, etc. and now he has this brand new car. And for all I know he’s more in debt or whatever just buying more toys but I just wanted to scream why can’t something go wrong for you because it feels like that’s what’s happening in my life right now.
Aw Dazed, keep your chin up. It might look like that but you know that in the end, with his behaviour, he’s bound to be lonely. You have your self awareness, your self respect, and I’m sure lots more things that are more worthwhile than a new car.
Hi everyone. I am new to this site – a friend recommended it. I haven’t been able to read every article – but I plan to. Anyway, I’m having any issue with what could be an EUM, or maybe it’s me not wanting to let go. I need some “straight up” advice. I was “hanging out” with this guy for awhile – over a year. Back in October he was texting me that he was very depressed and mentioned suicide once or twice. Come to find out, depression runs in his family (he never bothered to even tell me that during the entire year we were together) and the medication he was taking was having a negative impact on him. Anyway, I was there for him through all of this – didn’t pressue him to see me and made myself pretty much available whenever he wanted because I genuinely cared for him and was worried that he might actually hurt himself. I did express my concerns to him – that I wanted him to take care of himself, if he needed anyting to contact me, etc., He told me on numerous occasions that he my care and concern meant alot to him.
Well, right before Thanksgiving we had an “argument” – not much of surprise – since it has been a recurring argument for the past year. I apologized for my behavior (like always). I asked if we could see each other before the holiday and he said yes. I have to tell you that I never spent one holiday with him because his friends were always “coming into town” during those times. The day we were supposed to see each other he texted me that he would rather clean his house and that he needed space. i tried to text him on seveal occasions but he didn’t respond. In a “crazy” moment I sent a pretty nasty text and then a few days later I sent another apologizing. He finally answered with a text “It’s fine.” He hasn’t responded to any of my texts since. So why did he respond at all?
hi Katie. I reckon you already have the answer to that: he doesn’t care about hurting your feelings as much as you care about his. He probably just wanted to stop you from being in touch. God knows why they do the things they do. Thing is we have to be nicer to ourselves than we are to them. “Mine” was also always going on about how sad and depressed and lost he was, he ended up moving countries to “fix himself” and I always encouraged it. I particularly remember one night we had a fight on the phone: we’d planned on meeting the following weekend and he had cancelled it cause he was so depressed he wanted to be on his own, well after that phone call i found out through a friend of mine who lives in his town that he was out partying at someone’s birthday party and seemed to be feeling just fine. It’s twisted, and we always want to think they’re too confused or they’re keeping up a strong face, but really it just boils down to them not respecting us or honoring the things we do for them.
If you’re genuinely worried about his behaviour, get one of his friends or his family to look after him, while you can safely remove yourself from that situation..
Dazed – I know how you feel. You wish that you could just see him suffer, and it seems like all the bad people just never get what they deserve. It will probably not happen – either because it just straight up won’t happen, or if he were suffering he would never let you see it. You have to trust that even though it looks like he’s got the world on a string, inside he’s totally empty and that he’s got much worse problems in the grand scheme of things than you will ever have. He’s the kind of jack-a$$ that gives an ex a smug smile as he drives past. Most of my normal, decent ex’s would have stopped and offered me a ride and it wouldn’t have been an issue at all. I can almost picture it, though…grrrrrr.. what a jerk
Katie – keep reading the articles. The answer to why he didn’t respond will become much more clear – — he’s an assclown, he’s using you, he’s not going to come around to your way of thinking, and you don’t owe him any apologies. This site will explain so much!
He answered to accept your apology. Leave him alone, don’t waste your time with him. His suicide threats should make you running, he sounds screwed up.
Is this answering my text thing a way of keeping his foot in door? I’ve heard of this happening to other women, but this is a first for me.
Katie, were you guys just friends or were you se*ually involved?
How often did you see him and did you see him only when he wanted to? How old is this guy?
He may respond so that you don’t totally go away, but he has not answered your txt, I still think he answered your apology text to make himself feel better, seems everything revolves around him.
Was there a ‘break up”?
Has he ignored txts or e-mails or calls during that year you were hanging out?
First, you need to STOP texting him, it is pointless, he may just answer when it suits him or he needs attention.
What was the “argument” about?
I don’t know how to ask this without sounding patronizing (which is something I don’t want) so I’m simply going to ask:
why do you actively chase these guys?
why do you keep texting them and call them and beggin them to meet you when they don’t want to?
why do you put yourselves through the humiliation of being rejected once more?
I can understand pining for them even when they misbehave or obsessing when they are not there… but why keep chasing them?
I don’t mean to be rude or hurtful but I genuine want to know
Nilondoner… I think it’s an addiction… confusion. They tell you they want you so much and then don’t and it leaves mixed messages and because we are too afraid to just face it and let it go. Because they always bounce back at some point I think it just seems easier to keep pursuing somehow then to give up.
When your heart is involved it’s hard especially since these were not simple cases of this isn’t working (well they are but that’s not what we are hearing or seeing). I did it at the end because I could not let go, could not face it, my EUM also was sweet still and led me on, talked about our future so I just kept up until he was like ok you can leave me alone now and then I was totally confused. So while it is black and white once you step back, partly we have played the game for so long it’s like having invested 10,000 grand on the market and lost it all and you keep thinking I’ll just keep investing more until the market turns around as opposed to cutting your losses.
It’s also tough to walk away when you say things to your guy like, “this isn’t working,” or “why are you lying to me” and they spin it all around, convince you that yes, it is working – kinda sorta, maybe they will change, give them time yadda yadda….and you want to believe….and no, I’m not lying, but we’re not totally together and I didn’t want to hurt your feelings….blah blah blah…and you think “maybe i’m the screwed up one…”
Like Dazed said – it seems cut and dried, and in most healthy situations leaving would be a matter of just saying “it’s not working” and the guy would let you go. For these guys, it’s the way they passive aggressively fight to keep you around and confused and play on your sympathies because they can’t give up one of their ego strokes.
Astelle
It was more than friends… in the beginning it was pretty mutual – if I couldn’t see him one night we would make plans for another. However, thinking back, in the last few months it was pretty much when he wanted. I remember e few times we would make plans to see each other, then he would tell me that his friends invited him to do something so he cancelled our plans. Then later in the evening I would get a text asking if I wanted to come over.
He asked for space and all the crap before, but this is the first time that he actually stopped to responding to any communication from me. Maybe it’s his way of telling me it’s over. I don’t know but I would like to move on and knowing that I won’t hear from him. I’m still concerned about him.
The argument was about him being selfish. It was probably something I blew out of proportion but making dinner for himself, and not even asking if I wanted anything – I just thought that was rude. IT wasn’t the first time he did something like that. I remember many times if we went out, he would walk 2 feet away from me or in front or me. It’s like he didn’t want to look like he was with me. There was one time we went to a concert and ran into his boss. The rest of the night, he was standing at least 5 feet from me. I felt like I had the plague!!
He is 29 and I am 35.
Katie, you are the Fallback girl, if has something else to do he cancels plans with you and then calls later in the evening for se*?
He is a user, cut him off, cut contact!
Nildoner, I agree with you, that is how I feel now. When I was in this situation and looking for answers, trying to understand and yes, by the end of the day – it is so pointless, a waste of time.
I figured that was were this conversation was going. Looking back, it’s funny (really, hurtful) that I didn’t pick up on that. I thought maybe during the last month (October) things were beginning to change since he seemed to be confiding in me more than usual – opening up about his family’s history of depression. etc. He really seemed to genuinely appreciate my concern. I keep thinking that if I didn’t say anything about him being rude, we might still be seeing each other. But the fact they he couldn’t take one day during the Thanksgiving holiday to see me, makes me believe that he didn’t care if we saw each other at all. He always made me feel that I started drama, especially if I became mad that he would make plans with me and then cancel.
Also, I was perfectly clear about what I was looking for and he agreed. I guess I wasn’t paying attention to his signals until the very end. What really sucks now is that I am hearing all these stories about how many other women he was chasing at his job. How he texted another co-worker asking her if she wanted to be “f**k buddies” (she had enough sense to turn him down) while he was still seeing me. I guess maybe it’s good to find this out now so that I won’t start thinking this was my fault (at least not 100%). It is still very hurtful and I hope I’m not feeling this way 5 months from now. any specific articles I should read about getting past this hurt or any advice??
Katie, you need to read Natalie’s post from November: “Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda – Could my relationship have been different?” it is under Emotional Unavailability, that will answer why you think that if you have not told him he is rude you would be still together. You may think he confided in you, I call it the poor me syndrome, what a perfect excuse he has blaming his Depression and getting your support and concern. I wonder how depressed he was when he went to the Party without you?
Katie, I would recommend that you download Natalie’s book, Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback girl, it will answer so many questions and remove doubts, it will also explain your role in these kind of “relationships”.
Yeah – I wonder how depressed he was when he asked his coworker to be f**k buddies… ? Sounds like he’s coping in his own way.
There are people out there that are truly, profoundly depressed, and he is giving them a bad name. my own brother battles depression, and he not only would never in a million years tell his story to gain sympathy (in fact he would rather not discuss it at all), he is also the nicest, most considerate man and a thoughtful boyfriend. this guy just feels bad for himself and reels people in by making them feel sorry for him. I mean seriously, what normal person wouldn’t sympathize with someone struggling with depression? Katie – it’s not your fault you feel bad and want to help – that’s normal human instinct. But see him for what he really is and how he treats you.
BBP, thanks for the post. For some reason I feel better reading your words.
Astelle, I just read the Coulda, Woulda article and I realize there was probably nothing I could have done to make the situation any different – other than taking off the blinders earlier on. Someone posted a comment that these guys seem to never have anything “bad” happen to them and I tend to agree. I’m left wondering what the hell happened and he’s probably found another warm bed to crawl into.
Katie, from what you posted I see how he was definately blowing hot and cold with you. He was managing your expectations down so that you wouldn’t demand more from you than he planned on giving. He used you for an ego rub, and tried to make you feel bad for realizing that he basically was providing you little to nothing as far as a relationship. Don’t feel bad or ashamed. This site will help you a lot.
Good post! I can see my ex-husband, ex-EUM, family, friends (ok aquaintances) and self in this post. Wow, eye opening for me and sad too and I am angry all at the same time. I feel so alone in my life right now. I am working with my therapist on honoring myself and setting boundaries. I am passive and as a result I have allowed others to walk all over me and abuse me but I am growing a backbone, I see a little of the bone sprouting.
You ladies are so wonderful! I wish some of you lived close to me, then we could all get together and build a support group for each other and have someone that we can go out with to get our minds off of these EUMs. I live in Los Angeles, CA for anyone that might be in this area.
Yes, this is a great group. I’ve been coming here in and out for around a year, and it’s helped me get perspective and mainly the forum helped me a lot when I decided to cut contact.
In fact I’m struggling with this again at the moment: we’ve had no contact for 2 months, and last we spoke he said he wanted to sort himself out and that he’d come find me when he’s feeling better because he can’t imagine not ending up with me. I know this is not true, but I also know he always ends up showing up again in my life, out of the blue, when I least expect. Now I’ve moved away, and I’ve been making a whole new fantastic life for myself, and I’m enjoying it so much that the last few days i’ve been scared he’ll come back and shit all over it. I’ve been thinking of just replying to that last email he sent me and say to please just forget I exist, leave me alone for good and not reply to this. He’d respect a request like this, but on the other hand, it would be me getting in touch. No matter for what reason, like it was said on a previous post: no contact is no contact…
Will someone talk some sense into me?
Actually, just seeing it written down made me realize how ridiculous this is. Screw him, if he ever attempts to swing back in contact, I know i’ll be well able to handle it and continue the non contact. It would be stupid to be giving any thought to someone who was always so selfish and disrespectful.
ibby – just to get the facts straight, NC for two months, you moved away and he just sent you an email, or was the last email the one that said he needed time to “sort himself out.”? If it’s not a brand new email, I would say that you’ve come this far…and moved away even…let sleeping dogs lie. And actually, that’s the best thing to do for a new email – don’t respond. He can’t imagine not “ending up” with you? However it was said, that’s not the goal of a healthy relationship – you should be chosen, not settled on. In your heart of hearts, do you want to “end up” with him, or do you want to continue on this path of happiness and success you’ve been traveling down? Cut the ties to the unhappy past and don’t contact him. Like the last post said, no contact is no contact.
Nikki – I wish I lived in LA I’d totally get together — I’m in the Northeast…brrrrr…. Hopefully NML will come to the US someday to speak!
atta girl!
Ibby mine said the same thing… why dump someone and then say “I’ll be back for you.” well we know why it’s to leave the door open but it’s awful. You are so turned around at the end that we believe these remarks, or hope they are true I think because we can’t imagine the cruelty of saying that to someone if we did not mean it. And any guy I have ever left well I was done with him I didn’t want him thinking I would be back for him or waiting for me.
So it’s hard to get why they do this but at least you know he is just saying this because and you need to hear those words just the same as I do not want you. My ex kept saying he was going to go, but would come back for me even if I was with someone else. Do you know how long it took for me to say no way, if you really care about someone you would be too afraid to let them go for fear they would find someone else, no one is so confident that they can just come back when they like… real true feelings would not allow you to do that.
Nikki, that sounds great, I am in Atlanta. Ya know I am a little skeetish now with men. I thought that I got it right before, but I didn’t. I don’t want to waste anymore time on getting it right. Anyone else?
The EUM told so many little lies and big lies, that I had to go back to the first convo, to dissect it and realized that everything that he possibly said in the first convo was a lie. Any way, he does not and has not contacted me since I told him “not to contact me”. He told me before the break that he was “oversexed” WTF is that? So more than likely he was shagging (love that term) with another fall back. Now I know what Gwen Stephanie is talking about in her song “Ain’t no holla back girl”.
Thanks ladies
Always great to feel support. One of the things i got out of being involved with someone like this is that my closest friends all lost patience for seeing me get hurt with his crap, so I ended up being even embarrassed about telling them about things, so it’s really great to have this support here 
Wish I was in California too, I’m not even in the US..
That email he wrote was the last one, just after I broke contact and he found out I’d moved. But you’re both right, none of this matters, when you’re with someone, you want to be with them, you wouldn’t want to risk letting them go and losing them.
I’m going to go have a glass of wine to celebrate feeling strong about this
that was a bit of a smiley spam..sorry for that..
Nikki and Isabella and BBP
For the short time I’ve been on this site, it’s already opened my eyes. I think I’ve learned more here today than in the past year about relationships.
NML -you need to make to D.C….
ibby, how long ago was his last e-mail?
that was on the last week of september, Astelle. Previous times I’ve tried to cut contact, he’d be very quiet for a couple of months then show up again, which is why i was getting a bit nervous now that he’d be coming back for an ego rub. Well, he won’t get it, and if i feel i’m wavering i’ll come back here..
ibby, that is too long ago. It is like if you would walk out on a job and send in your resignation 2 months later.
Plus, by writing to him you may encourage him to up the contact – and you may feel that you are putting the ball in his court and be waiting to see what he does.
Leave him alone, don’t respond. Him saying that he needs to sort himself out, means “leave me alone for now but be available when I need you. Ugh..
ibby – no such thing as too many smiles after all the heartache. And yes, you ARE strong!
Girls, I love the support from this site too. I know I’m doling out advice today, but on my bad days I go back and reread the posts that made me strong and all the threads with everyone’s feedback and stories. I’ve posted about my bad days and gotten the best feedback – and like ibby, my friends really don’t want to hear it anymore, and it’s embarrassing to talk to them about it. Being able to talk, vent and read about everyone else’s experiences has helped me so much to figure it out and be strong at weak moments.
aw.. hug
Hello I am new to this site/Postings. Why is it soo hard to believe that these men won’t change? I just recently broke up with my unavailable man…. he lives with his wife (or the mother of his kids) and the two kids. We met at work and he started to want to start a “friendship†with me– as he put it. And little by little I listened to his story. Of how hard life has been for him being here illegally, having to support his family here as well as in Colombia. How unhappy he is at home– that all the love has gone from a relationship that he has been in for 12 years with the mother of his kids. That he sleeps on the couch and that his kids mean the world to him and that is why he cannot just up and leave but will one day when he has his life together. So ofcourse what did I do? I proceeded to want to be the one who helped him get his life together! We started off speaking on the phone, and then soon it became a relationship. I saw him at work every day ofcourse….and then he would come to see me at my place— like once a month (Talk about taking crumbs!) And this is because I had to ASK for the time!!! Not because it came out of him to say– you know babe, I want to see you so Im gonna make time. I stood by him thick and thin. I listened, I helped, I supported…. I married him so that he could get his papers!!! (Yes ladies…. i lost my mind!) Deep down i wanted to help him as a person, but I also felt that I loved him and wanted to be the “one†who could prove to him how much love i had and also to be the one to change his life. I even bought a car under my name to help him … thank god that at least he is responsible and has not screwed me over with the payments!!! Ofcourse— I also added him onto my car insurance policy! Needless to say I do take responsibility for my participation in this whole mess…. and for believing what I wanted to believe. For allowing him to Manage down my expectations every time. For lieing to me even after all I had done! There was always an excuse …. first it was… well I cant really come see you because I dont have a car… well I got him a car! Then it was…. yes but you know that I have to go home to my kids! I have to pick them up today from Grandma’s house and stay with them. Needless to say all I ever wanted and asked for was “TIME†with him. I tried to be understanding, I tried to be patient…. but I always found myself asking for more. When I did, there always seemed to be an excuse!! Oh im such an idiot!! Because instead of bailing— I tried to be even more patient, more understanding, more supportive!!! And now eventhough I just couldn’t take his lieing anymore and i mustered all the strength to end it with him — I still can’t stop wanting or wishing to still have him as a part of my life. Its only been a week so I know– thats not a lot of time that has passed but we work together, Im married to him (legally) and we have this car and credit card situation together. I minimize our conversations to only have to do with either work or payments and do not engage or allow him to engage me into further conversations about his life or mine etc…. Like NML says: He is not my friend! But I sooo want him to be!!! Ofcourse because of my indifference, he called me the other day (I picked up– thought it was about a bill or something etc…) and he said he was sorry. That he loved me the best way he could, that he never promised me anything more, that he appreciates everything I have done. That I have changed his life and been a great friend and that I will always be special to him. That regardless of what I may think, he loves me, has missed me and wanted me to know that. I said– thank you for the phone call…I appreciate it — have a goodnite…. and continued with my indifference. Is there any chance that he could really be remorseful? Is there any chance that he could have really loved me and appreciated me? Im struggling with that right now…….. some days I see him for what he really is, and other days I just can’t help but to want to be nice and have everything be ok again! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME??? Why do I want to believe him soo bad? Why do I still want to be with this person who has lied, cheated and not valued or appreciated me although he thinks he has? Why is it so hard? Can I be friends with him? Can’t I just forgive and let it go? Ugh!!! I cant… I know…. because I cannot enable him any longer or accept his behaviour anymore. I have let too many things slide that I lost my self respect and im sure like NML says: He is just waiting for me to get over it and come around again i set a pattern in motion and he knows it. How do I get through this?
Thanks for listening
NJ, wow, what a story!! What are you planning on doing?
I think, you need to divorce him – SOON. You married him so he can belegal, that brakes my heart. Why did you do that? Is his wife not legal? What about the kids?
NJSpecialK: Why would you want to be friends with someone who used you so badly? Even worse, he has used you in a way that you are legally obligated with your credit and are married to him. That takes major balls from someone and do not think for a second that he is actually remorseful or capable of remorse. He sounds like a sociopath and he knows what a doormat you are for him and will try to stay on good terms with you for your financial/legal status benefits.
I think you really need to find out why let someone do this to you. You say you still want to have him in your life. Have you thought about going to counseling? Maybe there is something in your past or family which was a model for you to allow yourself to be treated like this by someone. It sounds like you are partially aware of how badly this man has treated and used you, yet you still cannot get to the anger stage at him enough to not wan thim in your life any more and see him for who he is. You are still wondering whether he really loved and appreciated you. The fact that he used you like this shows he cannot be remorseful. People who are capable of having feelings would feel guilty about taking advantage of someone, and would not do it.
Alot about your description of this man and how your relationship with him played out points to him being a sociopathic con artist. I also think you should seek legal advice ASAP about your situation.
Hi NJSpecialK. It’s only been a week, it’s tough going, getting away from someone. Take one day at the time, keep being indifferent and keeping communications to a strict minimum and in these first couple of weeks if you find yourself missing him and almost picking up the phone to ring him, just come here instead and read these posts or get some support from us. And as you begin to see things clearer try to find a way out of this, either divorce, anything so you are not legally tied up to him. I agree you should try to get legal advice quick.
nilondoner – felt I had to explain why we chase these awful men/cant break away, I have had lots of normal relationships that end – its not working so one of you decides to call it quits and then decides its over, end of & both parties get on with things – not the case with these men!! they reel you in & then profess love & just when your getting comfortable – pull the plug on things! your then left hurting trying to get over it & all if a sudden they are back again contacting you – they miss you/cant stop thinking of you and this is music to your ears when your hurting and upset!! and you want to believe they did miss you – so you go back and they shower you with love & you start to believe again then just when your thinking everything is ok – bang they bottlle out yet again!! this time your confused – ‘how can they say they love you/miss you/start the relationship back up again and then do this’?? you ask yourself over & over -and so it starts!- the cycle of them pulling you in then pushing you away – constantly keeing you in a state of flux and your so drawn into the drama that soon its like an addiction — chasing the fantasy of how they& you both were when he reeled you in!! believe me it is not a good place to be and most of the women on this site will agree that they did not sit & think one day ‘I know i think il get involved and chase someone whos emotionally unavailable & let them treat me like shit’ i- ts just unfortunate that these men are highly manipulative and even when they are done with you they cant leave you alone to get on with your life (like when a normal relationship ends) no – they want to try & keep you hanging, they need you there just in case!! my ex eum is still contacting me even though I know hes been dating someone else, dosnt really want me but does not want me to get on with my life either – its like torture, my stomach flips everytime my phone beeps- I am maintaining no contact, but only with the help of reading this fantastic site!!
Ibby so glad you saw the light & did not sent that e-mail!! your doing so well getting on with your life – do not give this fool a second thought as I know it sounds harsh but you can bet hes not sat at home worrying about you! and believe me – I have learnt the hard way that any contact even to tell them to leave you alone is just playing right into their hands!! it just confirms to them that your still thinking about them & they still have a hold over you!! the best possible thing you can do is just carry on & get on with your life and if he does contact – then so what, youve moved on, just ignore them, its sad to say it but even friendship is not possible with these men,it really is not worth it.
BBP – I have down days too – even today I had to go over and read old threads on this site, but once I do it makes me feel so much better and posting about my experience and getting it out is better than therapy to see the harsh realitys in black & white really jolts you back & makes you put things into perspective!! – all my friends are fed up of me too – to be fair I should of paid some of them by the hour over the last 2 years!! its the looks of pity I can no longer stand though – they just look at me as if to say ‘what the f**k were you doing with that loser’!!! stay strong, even though im still a little numb I cant deny that it is getting better.
NJ – there is nothing wrong with you – you just believed him because you wanted too & he fed you so many lines, we have all been there!! you invest time and a lot of love in these men & genuinly want a committed relationship – nothing wrong with that , its just hard coming to terms with the actual reality – that these men are liars & users mostley who are not capable of normal relationships – with you or anyone (imagine how the mother of his children would feel if she knew what this jerk was up too??) my ex eum lied, cheated, manipulated, verbally abused me to the point of a break down & I still loved him too, but thats because I fell in love with a completeley different version!! we actually fall in love with a fantasy!! and we just cant accept the real version of who they are, I went back so many times always believing he would change & it never happenned & then in the end like you, I just couldnt accept another minute of his behaviour & mistreatment – I was making myself ill, thats what did it for me, no man is worth your health!! and as for your question on can you be friends – ask yourself this – if your best girlfriend had done everything he had to you, would you still be friends with her!?? have a feeling the answer would be ‘hell no!’ friends do not abuse you, you have done so much for this guy and what I can gather he has done nothing for you – you deserve a thousand times better!
Never, I feel the issues with NJ are way more serious than that, this is more than just an cheating, lying a**hole. I am starting to believe he is really a con artist, almost a criminal.
NJSpecialK, if you are still reading here, please confide in somebody, a friend, a family member, somebody that you trust and will help you and start legal proceeding, you have to divorce him first, cut the legal ties with this man and than worry about your heart. I understand that you may be afraid of any consequences marrying a man to get him legal status.
Are you in the States?
You know, it probably started out harmless at the beginning and nobody could forsee that this would end in marriage because of legal papers.
I understand about the pattern – I have done that with a man – but you can’t let him come around again. You need to look out for yourself and just being indifferent with him won’t fix anything. You are married on papers.
Please reach out to somebody, anybody that you trust and get that resolved and I am sure by the time this has been resolved you can’t stand looking at him. Don’t listen to his: you are a good friend and he is grateful and blah, blah, blah. Saying that he never promised you anything, means he doesn’t want you to expect anything and please don’t expect anything from him, but please take care of YOU, get YOUR life in order and don’t worry about him.
My heart goes out to you, your story really touched me, get smart and get busy, fix everything for YOU, put everything back the way it was for YOU before you met him.
NJ,
Does the mother of his children know that he is married? If not, she should.
Who’s name is the car in? If it is in yours I would take it back.
Honey, you’ve allowed yourself to be played big time. Time to get out of this ridiculous situation! This is crazy!
These guys love the chase and when they get you they go into neutral. There may be a time in the relationship when you are both one but it soon changes and he back-pedals. Basically while you’re basking in the glow of his promises he starts sending you mixed signals and blowing lukewarm… The problem is he doesn’t tell you outright, he just slooooooooooooooowly starts backing away little by little, all the while feeding you a line of bull that would string around the world. By then we’re sucked into the “realtionship” and it’s hard to let go of what used to be.
I think anyone that gets involved with an EUM knows in their hearts when it starts to go south way before they do anything about it. Personally I have a problem of not listening to my gut. My gut knew he was cheating but I didn’t want to believe it. So I listened to his lies until I couldn’t stand living that drama over and over. We had a good year and a half and then six months of hell. My biggest regret is that I didn’t get out sooner instead of wasting so much time with him.
It’s been three months of NC and I do believe that I’m over him. I have moments and bad days but they are so few and far between. It happened really suddenly too. It seemed I would never stop loving him and then one day I woke up and didn’t feel so sad anymore. I think the key is to keep up the NC. I can see so clearly now. I don’t care who he’s with or what he’s doing. I’m dating one guy, nothing hot or heavy and that suits me fine. Just working on myself and that’s so much more important then anything else. I know I will love again someday but I’ll never be as foolish or a doormat to any man again.
My exEUM (NC for over a month and a half) just made indirect contact. When we parted ways, I told him that the only contact I would accept is him ordering products off my website. Well he emailed my housemate asking about these products, and if my housemate would ask if was okay if he came to a festival I’m vending at to buy them. (Like, I really DO want to start bawling when I’m trying to sell product at a busy festival?) ‘Cause the products he wants, I don’t sell on my website in the forms he prefers. I used to make larger sizes in different dilutions, made *special* just the way he likes.
Now I do do a whole lot of custom orders. However, that requires direct email contact with my customers, and for me, NC is NC, even if it is business email.
He doesn’t want me, but he wants my products, but only if I customize them special for him. I am sorry, but that was something I was willing to do back when I was his girlfriend.
Good Grief.
Regina-The EUM’s always try to get to you somehow. Ask your housemate not to respond to his email or he will be baiting her/him just like he did you. It’s really not about your products anyway. You’ll find some other customer who can replace the money he spent with you. You don’t need him. Stay NC!
One EUM of mine who I haven’t heard from in over 5 yrs just tried to contact me. I didn’t respond. See, that’s how these idiots are. It’s not about you, it’s about an ego stroke. Keep your sanity and stay NC. You’re doing great!
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