A couple of days back in part one, I explained how we can end up seeking validation from the guy after the relationship has ended and spend an awful lot of time expending energy on getting him to understand your perspective, or where they have gone wrong.
Validation and the concept of the other party understanding you are intrinsically tied to each other and if you spend enough time doing this, they’re just two more codewords for analysing, obsessing, and two more actions that mask fear and denial.
You’re seeking validation from someone who by their very nature invalidates you through their actions and the type of the relationship you engage in with them. They’re very good at validating the negatives and that’s because in being with them, you’ve chosen someone that reflects these very things.
You’re seeking understanding from someone who either has no interest in understanding you, or understands you, but not in the way that you would like.
Say what?
Well part of the reason why this is a bit like chasing the holy grail is because your concept of him understanding you and his concept of him understanding you are two very different things.
You want him to understand you because of what you say but actually, the conflict of your actions ensures that he understands something different.
You want him to understand you on your terms thus validating you but if you couldn’t take the horse to water and make him drink all this time, he’s not about to start drinking now.
Seeking validation and understanding from these guys is about gaining control. It can feel ‘unfinished’ when we believe they didn’t get it and so we can end up becoming obsessed with ‘closure’ in the form of the retribution of him realising he was an assclown/wanting you/changing his ways.
You want to have the last word.
As I said in part one, you’re going to be in for a long wait if you’re expecting him to ‘get it’ in the way that you want him to and the worst thing is, the amount of satisfaction that you think you’re going to derive from this is far removed from the reality.
You want to be ‘right’.
Don’t we all…but we have to learn to back away from the ‘bad investment’ and take solace in our own knowledge.
How much crap do you want to put yourself through just so that you can ‘prove’ that you were ‘right’?
Women have long lambasted men for being obsessed with being right but actually, in this situation we are very much guilty of the same thing.
You want to teach him but who says that you’re that person to teach him?
Many women misguidedly believe that they need to raise a man from the ground up and teach him how to be a man and tell him what relationship he should be in. This is why many are obsessed with change (changing him that is…) and why we don’t know when to wash our hands of a ‘bad investment’ and minimise the trauma and the impact. We like to ride the beat up donkey of a relationship till it collapses because we are obsessed with getting the end result (read: happy ending) where they validate us which in turn means we are understood. You’re seeking a return on investment when you’re already in some serious negative equity.
The thing is, if you’re the type of woman that is habitually engaging in poor relationships and trying to extract commitment from men that don’t want to commit, you’re in no position to be ‘teaching’ him.
People don’t learn how to treat you because you talk the ears off them until they suddenly have a lightbulb moment and it’s no different for understanding ‘you’ and ‘getting it’. This is why we keep falling into the trap of suffering with Women Who Talk and Think Too Much syndrome as we look at talking and discussing, and explaining, and revisiting the same subjects again and again as the best way to get men to understand us.
He’ll learn through your actions and by those of who came before and after you.
The best thing that you can do is validate what you have learned about yourself, him, and the relationship by acting on it.
You don’t need him to say ‘you are right’, you don’t need him to apologise, and you don’t him to creep around you saying how full of regret he is.
The validation of what you know about yourself, him, and the relationship comes from you. All of this energy that is yet again being expended in his direction is a waste because very little, if anything, comes from it and you are literally throwing your life away and bringing it to a standstill whilst he’s off leading his merry life in exactly the way that he wants to.
But…when you, for example, end the relationship, and he still continues to show that he’s a complete dipstick by disregarding your wishes to have no contact with him, by talking cheap but following through with no action, by taking up with his next victim whilst still pestering you, by never leaving his wife and instead starting a new affair, or whatever it is, he does actually validate your decision to opt out.
And this is where you have to make a choice:
Do you want to keep seeking validation from men because you place no value on your own opinion, judgement, feelings, or essentially yourself as a whole and instead hope that by extracting understanding and validation, you will in turn get the relationship you want from him and suddenly feel at one with yourself?
Or…do you truly want to live a life where you validate yourself through acceptance and rejection of other people’s behaviour?
Sod the quest for understanding, with the latter option, you set your boundaries, you know your values, you treat yourself with respect and you make a judgement call and act upon it and respect your decision rather than second guessing it and living your life in limbo trying to obsess and analyse everything out to nth degree so that you don’t actually end up doing anything.
People think there is something complex about validation like doing it for ourselves is a mystical feat; it’s not. This is just something else that is tied to building your self-esteem and having boundaries because by learning to accept and reject behaviour, you send signals to your self-esteem that teach you that you are a person of action who has her own trust system that she can always rely on.
When people have boundaries and make decisions that they act upon, they see the fruits of that decision – they’re happier, they see that the person wasn’t worth their energy anyway, they don’t analyse it because their made their judgement in light of their boundaries, core values, only engaging in thing that had a positive impact on their sense of self, rather than depleting it.
At some point you have to let go, accept that things are what they are, see him for what he is, opt out of the crap, and be good to yourself. That, ladies, is true validation and understanding…of yourself.
Your thoughts?
Get ahead on understanding waste of space men and relationships with my ebook, Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. Find out more and download. Also find out more about my No Contact Rule web seminar, or if you need personal advice or analysis of your relationship, check out my consultation service.
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Hi Matt – I don’t think that this is about being an assclown on either side and I certainly can’t say whether you guys will work this out but what I do know is pushing her to work it out will push her away. You need to step back and work on your own closure because even though you may think she holds all the answers, she doesn’t.
We have to be very careful when we say that we are supporting people because we’re only supporting them if it’s the supporting that they need. This is why when you think you’re being supportive and you get negative results, it’s best to ask them what they actually need. This is highlighted by the fact that she said you didn’t support her enough. Now this may or not be the case – some people just flail around for an excuse.
I also know if she has been made redundant then your insecurities or even thinking about rosy futures may not have been at the top of her mind. That said, the whole ex thing goes and throws a monkey wrench in those works. But then, you going in her phone demonstrated that your relationship had reached a low that you haven’t acknowledged because if you were prepared to do that, things must have been pretty bad. Even if she has been in contact with her ex, and who knows, maybe it’s innocent, you sent a clear message.
Much as you may want to talk and get back to normal, I think you’re expecting a bit much and you’re also disregarding her feelings as you’re totally focused on what you want – right now you don’t both want the same thing and that is a problem. I agree with Brad that I don’t think things were as great as you feel they were and whatever contact she was having with her ex, she seemed to have shut down to you.
Leave things be and let her sort herself out. You also need to. The time for communication and working things out is during the relationship, not after, especially since it was such a short relationship, so I don’t suggest waiting otherwise you could be in for a long wait.
Hi
thanks for the comments NML
I sent her a letter last week apologising for my words and actions. Not justifying them. Explained how I realise my mistakes and how I could have supported her better in the way she needed. Im always opent to learning and growing as a person and new ways of dealing with issues.
I realise that our relationship was better placed somewhere down her priorities so she could focus on the task in hand better. Me going on her phone was a low point. For us both really and i need to work on those insecurities. i did push her away with trying to sort it out and this I now all know
Apart from the letter to let her know that I could see things more clearly now I have not contacted her and left her to sort herself out. She text me yesterday to say thankyou for the lovely letter. Its been a week since she left. She has now secured that dream job. She says she will reply to it once she finds a new place to live where the job is and settled. I’ve replied and said well done. I look forward to hearing from you when you are sorted
I intend to get on with my life left best I can, strengthen up, work on the confidence and insecurity issues. getting back to me. If it works out great … if not then there was a reason why and i should be in abetter place to move on. I do miss her but we both need that space and time. I’m being very good and wont contact her as hard as it is and trying to live a bit more in my own world
Hopefully its a positive result and but hey ….
Bit of space and time can only do us both good whichever way
thanks for your comments they are all appreciated
What an amazing site. I love how supportive everyone is, and my situation so parallels so many of the stories. I feel very foolish for staying in a very long-term relationship with a guy who sounds like just every one you all have described. I finally reached my limit a couple of years ago, and have gone cold turkey since then. He tried to get back in for almost a year, but I was still so hurt and angry, and we had gone through the push/pull, back and forth deal enough times. I hurt like crazy, but I couldn’t do it anymore. That’s the good news.
He retired, moved away, but I have to see him once a year for a convention I can’t avoid. It’s coming up soon and I’m dreading it. He runs around there with the woman he claims is just a friend. Then he tries to come around to tell me how beautiful I am and how much he misses me. Last year I just walked away. He tried calling once after that but I didn’t pick up. I saw him down the corridor a bit later and he glared at me. It’s all so upsetting still, and I hate that. I don’t want to even admit what an idiot I was to tolerate all I did. I just want to be able to be there and not miss the good, fume over the humiliation, and beat myself up anymore. He was a real jerk, but he could also be wonderfully sweet, too. His sense of humor was incredible, and like Perplexed, I loved the good. He was trained in the mental health industry, and I probably cut him slack I wouldn’t have cut for anyone else. I trusted not only him, but who I thought he was. I’ve been in therapy for a while now, and reading this site tonight has been so helpful….I want to be O.K. I think I vascilate between denial and a reality that’s hard to be with. I want to accept what was, and to forgive myself for my part in letting this go on as it did. I do feel shame, and I feel stuck between my bad feelings and the ones that still remember the good.
My parents were almost divorcing during much of my childhood, and I think I became addicted to hope. I made a decision early on I would never be in that situation, and when I married, I married someone wonderful who would not hurt me in that way. Still, we divorced 20 years, but I don’t blame either of us for its ending. He is a good person, and even though we couldn’t stay together, he’d have my back and I’d have his. I wasn’t prepared for this situation. I don’t want to feel that physiological gut-wrenching feeling when I hear my a$$ clowns name or see him running around with his friend. I want to feel indifferent, and I don’t know how to do that. Will keep trying. Thanks for listening. It has helped just saying this.
hi. i have been involved with a young EUM for nearly two years. we play music together so we travel together. he has a history of a taking care of a mother with psychiatric issues, his first love breaking his heart, and general fear/avoidance of committed relationships. i was the first person he really let in after three years. yes, he chased me down. i could offer fifty billion explanations for his ambivalence, and my own, but… we all have our stories.
the pattern in our relationship is we become extremely close and intimate and when it is really good, he seems to panic and cut me off. though cutting me off is more like looking through me in my presence, and literally running away at the end of plans. but he still calls every day or writes, wants to spend time together, even when pulling a disappearing act.
he definitely communicates a vibe of “can’t commit to me can’t bear to let me go.” clearly not healthy to be in that limbo. our initial conversation a year and a half ago, about “what is going on between us?” involved him articulating concerns of wanting to be a good man to me, marriage, and babies. he is younger and worried the two latter issues were my immediate priorities. they were not. someday they will be, I explained, but I was mostly concerned with/excited about enjoying each other and making this new connection as healthy and honest as it could be.
his best friend said to me, “he’s met the girl of his dreams and he is young and terrified because he doesn’t feel ready.” our push/pull dynamic endured until he went away on a trip a year ago, came back, and he seemed very distant. we had a talk where I said, “I can really handle any hard truth, awkward confession, “you want to be single” “I am older and that is intimidating”, “you have been/want to see other people”, “this isnt working” “I am not in love with you” whatever it is, it won’t shock me, i can really handle any of it. none of those possibilities are “bad” just real. but no words at all is the most hurtful most destructive course of action and will yank our friendship up at the roots.”
we had this exact conversation three times over the past year after several “pull me super close, push back” episodes. each time he says he is just paralyzed with confusion. that there is no simple explanation and that he wishes there were. he just feels paralyzed. he tells me the only women he has ever loved and said so are his mum, his old girlfriend and me. i do believe him.
all of our friends, loved ones, family—especially the tough love pals that I count on to tell it like it is—assess that it is a truly confusing situation to observe. that there are enormous feelings and palpable affection but also palpable fear and reservation.
ok. enough background. and there is heaps more, mind you. there always is.
the cycle, whatever it is about, needs to stop. because it is exhausting, so upsetting, and confusing to me. during the “push back” phases he started becoming extremely rude and defensive. And I enabled it and did not stand up for myself.
I allowed myself to be sucked into the ambivalence. and it made me deeply unsure of myself. I felt like a phantom and of course, I was complicit in letting myself reach that impasse. which is very upsetting. as he abandoned me, I abandoned mysef.
after his last “I’m confused…but I love you, let’s talk about this another day”, one week into this new year, I decided I needed to detach from the destructive cycle. I was tired of feeling so sad and fearful of him and myself. I chose to look toward actual love and life in myself. I needed to take care of myself! no words I could say, or plans we had, etc was making any difference in the day-to-day. I couldn’t fix the situation.
as I work and travel with him in a musical group, NC is not an option. my decision was to focus on me and my time and to stop half living my life. and not try and fix this situation any more. just stop focusing on him at all. Just let go. I have been good about turning off my phone, not emailing, not reaching out, very selectively responding to texts and being cordial but not heart on sleeve in my words. I am not being cold shoulder/drama queen about it. Just trying to make some positive life decisions about me. And not in response to him (though it is, in part, but telling him so is not helpful).
in response, he actually really got his act together. clearly went through the archive of our correspondence, all the gifts I ever gave him, reflected, wrote to me a bunch about it, started reaching out to me for “dates”, running errands for me, gave me an unbelievable birthday gift, and generally just came around.
that was January/half of February.
then he went on a recent trip with another group, and came back….looking detached again. who knows why. confused again. met other girls. doesn’t matter. what mattered was seeing we could make progress and he could retract even after that was terrifying. because yes, hope had been creeping back again.
and so i started the process of protecting myself again. not responding to texts if they were just anecdotal (not band question), not being available. and he came around again, but I cn see he is still ambivalent.
I love him a lot. but i need and deserve more. he cannot commit. but cannot let go. i want to share my heart with someone who can commit and doesn not want to let go of me.
Next week we have to travel together for music. Including two days at my parents house. I am scared. And hope for a calm heart in a challenging environment. Sleeping arrangements each night are particularly nerve wrecking because I already feel myself thinking “I want to sleep alone, but I want him to want to sleep with me, I worry he will not want to sleep int he same bed with me, I want to sleep in the same bed with me.”
absurd and true. I am laughing.
I guess I am not here to ask questions. Just trying to organize and breathe before intense close time together. I know it will be confusing.
And I know regardless of his confusion, I need to be sure of myself. I want more. I want a healthy, consistent relationship with someone who can’t help but be ready for it.
Been reading a lot of the articles and posts and suddenly I can make sense of a relationship that made no sense. I had my moment of Epiphany about 3 minutes into finding this site! My and my EUM have finally come to the end of the line. It has been the mother of all rollercoasters for going on 3 years, but finally I see the bigger picture. I wish you all luck and happiness in finding a better future, and thank you for such a fantastic site – I wish I’d found it a long time ago. x
“You don’t need him to say ‘you are right’, you don’t need him to apologise, and you don’t him to creep around you saying how full of regret he is.” Gawd, but this is exactly what I DO want. I have been waiting for this!!! I stare at my email Inbox (0) hoping for exactly this.
But this is so true: “you are literally throwing your life away and bringing it to a standstill whilst he’s off leading his merry life” Yes!
I put my life on hold for almost 6 months and he’s already been in and out of 2 “relationships”– which means HE HAS been wining, dining, courting, getting sexually intimate, having fun, having laughs, flirting, romancing, dancing, phoning, emailing, enjoying the thrill of the chase….
while for nearly 6 months I’ve been emotionally immobilized. I only just started to move on emotionally (outward appearances: I seem to be doing very well)… and he’s already had 2 “girlfriends”.
I feel stronger just reading these postings. People say “oh he’s a jerk” and yes that’s true, but it didn’t allow me to let go like these articles do. This helps so much
Like so many of the women responding to this post, this one was the epiphany; the post that pulled it all together to make sense. I broke off a relationship of eight years, six of which were good ones, because he was distancing with no explanation, acting out in ways that bordered on cruel, making excuses about his health as the reason for that and for no sex, drinking to excess, smoking to excess etc. It went on for way too long because he wanted me to be the bad guy and end it and I was struggling like hell to understand and fix things. I still don’t know what happened and probably never will.
What I understand now is that I don’t need to know I was right because I was right not to accept any more of his crap. I was right to put him out of my life and I am right not to wait around for him to validate that. Why on earth would he anyway?? He thinks he did nothing wrong and tells everybody I am a needy bitch. Yes, I needed both of his feet in the relationship, I needed some respect, and I needed a man who is with me because he loves to be with me. Since I wasn’t getting that, I was unhappy.
This hurts, don’t get me wrong, it hurts a lot. My dreams are crushed and my hopes are dashed. But I know I am better off and this will pass and right now I am more at peace than I have been in the last two years.
“At some point you have to let go, accept that things are what they are, see him for what he is, opt out of the crap, and be good to yourself. That, ladies, is true validation and understanding…of yourself.”
That’s what it’s all about… Thank you NML and thanks to all!
hugs xx
Rosanna
“At some point you have to let go, accept that things are what they are, see him for what he is, opt out of the crap, and be good to yourself. That, ladies, is true validation and understanding…of yourself.”
I agree that statement right there says it all…Thank you NML for sharing all your wisdom and advice with us in times when we feel hurt sad scared weak frustrated and confused -what it all comes down to is being good to ourselves and being the best that we can possibly be..whenever i feel weak and tempted to give in and break the NC with AC i come on here and read your articles and it keeps me from making that mistake and boosting his ego and making him feel like he’s really somthing special when he never made me feel that way..plz keep writing!! xoxo
please keep writing xoxox
truly grateful for the inspiration and influence. you hit the nail on the head i’ve been reading a lot of books similar to what your saying, and it confirms my fears. letting go it part of a process to learning more about yourself. it hurts like crazy for me but it seems necessary to evolve and develop more important relationships rather than wasting time and energy and life on empty unfulfilling relationships.
thanks
for your words of wisdom
HI Fay here..am new to site. I am laughing because I am thinking of when the last AC phoned several months later to ask (incredulously)why I dumped him. I explained patiently why I was not going to invest in someone who treated me with no consideration..I then provided detailed examples and asked him if he ‘got it’. He replied NO(rather emphatically)!
I think thanks to this and other posts that I am finally getting it though:)
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