The reason why I say this? There are two things you should drum into yourself so you can get into reality:
1) When you make contact after starting No Contact, and by ‘make’ that means instigating or accepting it in any, way, shape, or form, it is contact. Period. Contact is contact.
2) You may put on your rose tinted glasses and your fur coat of denial and rationalise that your guy is different, special, has some good points, has some good days, is only a ‘bit’ emotionally unavailable or not as emotionally unavailable as the last guy, but…emotionally unavailable is emotionally unavailable.
With the former, I really want you to realise that whatever reasons you come up with for making contact or accepting contact , and whatever tone you think you had and yada, yada, yada, he doesn’t think ‘Ah, Natalie accepted my call but she’s really frosty with me so I think I’d better leave her alone from now on because I don’t want to mess her around any further and I’ve already put her through enough pain’. No – he doesn’t ‘think’ at all because the act of getting you to break No Contact is about attention. You may look at it as giving him 1% attention but he just sees it as attention, period. He realises he’s proved his point, and often, the silly little assclown won’t even bother to return your call or will just straight up vanish.
Stop explaining, stop discussing, stop thinking that he’s thinking the same thing you’re thinking, because trust me, he’s not. If you weren’t on the same planet when you were together, you can be damn sure you’re not now that it’s over.
99% of the time, whatever reason you have come up with for making contact or accepting it, it’s not the real reason and if you’re even THINKING about making contact, it’s a neon flashing light of a signal that is telling you that you haven’t cut contact for long enough!
When it comes to emotional unavailability, one of the problems that will keep you being compassionate, projecting, and in denial, is believing that you can make him different or that he’s not what he actually is. For the habitually emotionally unavailable that cause umpteen problems for themselves and you, they are emotionally unavailable.
Stop analysing him and trying to put him into the ‘not so bad job lot’ of emotionally unavailable by overextending your compassion.
Mr Unavailable is not a ‘bit’ emotionally unavailable, 25%, 50, 66 or whatever percent emotionally unavailable. It doesn’t matter if he only has done half the things that some others do – that half may be very bad and where there is half, there is more.
You want to think he’s different because you don’t want to let go and you’re heavily emotionally invested in the potential that you think he can deliver. The fact that you need to focus on potential rather than the current him speaks volumes.
If you have to have shades of grey to maintain your idea of the relationship, it’s a sign that something is very wrong. Whilst the world is not black and white, if you’re in a healthy relationship, you shouldn’t have to rationalise him, his behaviour, your emotional investment, or your reasons for still being around. Period.
Your thoughts?
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Thank you. You’re right. I’ve done this. We all have, I guess. Convinced ourselves that, really, it’s ok to reply to that email or return that phone call because …. But in order to move on and be healthy, really healthy, we have to just accept the fact that the situation is black and white and OVER. I think that’s why I’ve let myself play those games in the past, because that small part of me that saw things in shades of gray wanted to leave a window open for the relationship to be repaired.
Anyway, thanks. And, btw, I’m now going on the longest stretch of no-contact with my Mr. Unavailable that I’ve ever had. And I don’t expect it to ever end.
Wow – great post & just in the nick of time for me – so Thanks!
After many attempts of no contact over the years & caving in for whatever reasons, I’m now 1 month back on track & just waiting for the dropkicks latest missive to arrive ….. considering it’s the Xmas season & he’s basically vanished & ignored me for the last 1.5 months, I’m looking fwd to not being drawn into his drama yet again & finally freeing myself once & for all. Chin up, Stay Strong!
Elle, stay strong.
For how many years has this been going on? How long was the longest break?
Thanks Astelle 🙂
Last 3 yrs of my life have been riddled with dramas concerning the ex EUM. Longest no contact was approx 9 months @ which point we made an effort to ‘be friends’ but in this case it’s been a wasted effort on my part & time to just cut the crap & contact with him. I recognise I’ve made the choices I have thus far & played my part in the saga, but it’s not been healthy, nor is pursuing / maintaining a pseudo friendship with him. Xmas isn’t the easiest time to maintain no contact (for me anyway) as I feel rude for doing so, but I now accept I owe him nothing – especially when he comes back sniffing for some attention randomly!
THANK YOU ! I’ve called paranoid and crazy and insecure because I “cant” understand why someone who claimed to love me is so busy, he cant take 5 minutes to call or text. His reply three weeks later to one of my emails. He’s a lil too late and hopefully me not replying back will get that thru his head
He can save that drama for the next person he sweet talks, I aint the one anymore. He’s not the man I thought he was. Good riddance !
Can somebody explain something to me? When an EUM says he needs his space, then completely cuts all contact – as in won’t return text messages, answer his phone or whatever… then why is it that when I text him to please tell me it’s over if that’s the case, he never responds. I mean, if he ACTS like he doesn’t want to be near me, then what the heck is so hard about just SAYING it? I will never understand this…. HELP
Kim,
He is saying it. With his actions. He’s saying it loud and clear. You just need to be strong enough to hear him.
Kim, he’s actually doing NC on you right now. I know it hurts like hell, but you have to see it as him actually doing you a big favor. You have to take this as blessing in disguise and try not to contact him anymore. Right now all he’s doing is getting a great ego stroke out of the fact that you’re chasing after him. Once you stop responding to it though, be prepared for him to start blowing hot by texting or calling you too.
Agreed Nikki, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck (or in Kim’s case does no talking at all), it probably is a duck. Why give him the control and power and why make yourself look desparate? I am so enjoying taking control of my situation for once, and not giving the power to the other person it makes me giggle. They do start blowing warm. Instead of texting me now and unable to reach me on facebook he’s taken up iming me (I’ve now put him on ignore) and entered “Assclown” in my phone as a reminder of who he is. Last night was proof when he sent me another clueless/meaningless im which has gone unanswered. I am still a bit confused on this point as I feel like why let this continue, I should respond back by only saying do me a favor and don’t contact me anymore, after all people cannot read minds and it’s apparent this is a big game to him and one I don’t think he will stop playing.
Believe me, I do not want anything to do with this guy personally, he is what he is and it didn’t make me feel good, I am not going to change that but I do want him to stop trying to contact me and I hate being treated with ambiguity myself, is it all right to tell him straight up, don’t contact me anymore? What do you all think? I know NML recommends and states above “contact is contact” but he just isn’t getting it!
Nikki, that’s exactly what I’m afraid of. This has happened before when he claims he needs a break and I start to go on about my life and then I hear from him. How do I NOT breakdown… I mean really, how do all of you work so hard in regaining your self esteem and NOT let something like this thwart all of your efforts. It’s hard to believe that this is NOT my fault, at this point.
I know it is the right thing to do at this point, but it hurts like hell. I’ve seen him around other people and he does not treat them the way he treated me. It’s unfair and no wonder we women end up losing sleep and turning into “drama queens” because of this crap. I’m more embarrassed by me chasing him and ALLOWING him to treat me like this more than anything else. I wish I would have found this site much earlier.
Kim,
Because it’s more detached, less confrontational, and perhaps more game-playing and more sly to simply vanish instead of telling the other person straight up that it’s over. It’s akin to never hearing from a guy again after the first date even though he said he’ll call. Action speaks louder than words.
Forget him, act like he doesn’t exist and move on. He doesn’t deserve any of your attention.
Good luck!
Kim, saying I need space translates for me: go away for now, but not too far just in case I need to use you again. Him, him, him…
I have to add probably doesn’t apply to a “normal” guy.
Kim, Nikki and Gail–being involved with EUMs is kind of like being an alcoholic or a drug addict, and I believe we all follow some sort of a “12 Step Program” regarding the different phases of the relationship. I think you are all at the “trying to rationalize their behavior” stage. I went through this stage also, and let me tell you it will drive you nuts trying to figure them out. You need to really understand that they don’t think the same way we do. They are emotionally retarded. We think and act using our emotions in a much healthier way. They do not. They are incapable of tapping into their emotional core, and so everything they do is pretty much devoid of emotional substance. That’s just the way they are wired. That’s where ACCEPTANCE comes in. You have to accept that this is the way they are, you cannot change it, no amount of racking your brain trying to dicipher their behavior will make any difference. They are broken and wounded by whatever happened in their lives which has made them emotionally unavailable and you have no control over that. NML’s message in a lot of her posts is that rather than waste time focusing on THEM and trying to figure them out, turn that around to YOU and focus on YOU and re-gaining your self-esteem and self-worth. It truly is not worth it to give your personal power over to these sad little man-boys! 🙂
I get it. But, I’m embarrassed to admit that it hurts like hell to know that he will most likely be with someone else before I will ever get my head back on straight. Do these creeps ever realize the damage they do? I can’t even remember what my personality was like BEFORE I met him. The thought of him treating another woman with respect, actually taking her out amongst his friends, spending real time with her, etc., etc., kills me. That’s all I’ve longed for with this guy and now I’m shown the door without him even so much as having to utter one word. I’m mad as hell while at the same time wasting useless tears.
Your blog is the best thing that’s ever happenned to my life !
This is my Romance Addicts daily meeting keeping me from being self-destructive 🙂
Kim,
I understand you fully. I read more of your responses and I feel the same way. I am so good at keeping up the “no initiation” of no contact, but if and when he comes around, say, every few weeks, I break down and respond (or as NML puts it, accept his contact). I feel compelled to respond, even if it’s something curt. I’d be moving on and out of nowhere he’d email me and I’d respond and get suckered into it all over again, only to have him treat me worse and blow cold again.
I think the longer you go on without him and the clearer you begin to see things, he will become less and less interesting to you, so you cease to feel that “breakdown” and respond back to him.
As with him going out with and treating another girl right…that one I’m still struggling with. I sometimes struggle with the thinking, “Am I just not as good as her? Not good enough in general?” Why won’t he just give me 1% of what he gives her? But anyway, like I said above, the longer you go on without him, the less you care. There are millions of guys out there, some will love me, some will not, and I don’t care to figure out each one of them will or will not. So why should I give so much brain power to figure out why this one particular guy will not?
My self esteem is non-existent at the moment – the most worthless, ugliest, pathetic person. And I’m sure people can sense that when they look at me. Agonizing for the past 5 year about what I looked like, how I dressed, was I smart enough, etc., etc., has damaged me and now I’m not sure if I can ever fully recover. I feel cheated…we give and give and it’s taken for granted. I was raised to treat others the way I would like to be treated, with respect. Who the heck raised these guys?
Jesyca, I dont think this is the case with Kim’s guy, if he wanted to this to be over he would not keep coming back by making contact.
When he doesn’t respond this just makes Kim chase him harder.
See,how sick all of this is? 🙂
Gail, it doesn’t matter if he gets it, you got it and that is important, so don’t respond, he will stop eventually. It may be a game to him and I know they hate to lose, but I guess he just has to play by himself. 🙂
Astelle,
Thank you, good point! He’s probably very proficient at playing by himself or looking blankly into an im computer screen or using one of the over 800 people listed on his facebooks networks, plenty of games to choose from there, less ONE!
Kim it does hurt like heal, but this is the time where you take the focus off of him and put it back on you. I’m in the same stage where my ex-EUM is already moving on, and it’s only been a week since we split from a 3 year relationship. Here’s what has helped me, when I thought the very same thoughts last night about some other woman getting something he didn’t give me. I calmed myself down and thought about it honestly. The woman that comes behind me will be getting the EXACT same treatment as I got from him. The woman before me got the EXACT same treatment as I did, and the women before her got the EXACT same treatment too. Once I reminded myself that he hasn’t changed, nor does he want to change, I started thinking my lucky stars that it’s not me that has to put up with his crap anymore. I actually starting feeling bad for the next girl. I went to sleep and slept the best I have in 3 years. As FinallyOverIt said, there is not logical rationalization with these men. They are selfish and incapable of processing what it is that they are doing to you, because if they did they would have to admit as NML says, that they’re really not all that or a great catch and they’re assclowns. They don’t want to have to admit that especially to themselves. Don’t be embarassed at all about how you feel, that’s why we’re all here to help each other. You’re getting there slowly but surely to a healthy place. Just keep reading and writing and it will help a lot.
It’s over, plain and simple. NML is definitely right that I took 2-3 days a week (crumbs) to mean an entire loaf, and that’s my fault 100%. I always hoped for the best, but underneath all of this I was worrying about the situation. I would like to believe there is something better out there…. and at this point, I need to believe that. Thank you!!
Kim, You know who raised these men? The same type of parents that raised us. This is exactly how we all found ourselves in these EUM situations. We have to look at the fact that we’re too emotionally unavailable just like these men are. It all comes from the same place.
Kim,
You are so right….like attracts like as Natalie says….Gail
I really don’t think I’m anything like these – I know I am capable of being in a good relationship. I think i wanted this so bad and he knew that (obviously) and threw me just enough rope to keep me around. It’s funny that I have been able to walk away from other men before when a relationship wasn’t working – but in a mature way. I hate to admit it, but I never had a “text message” relationship with a guy. Really, is a phone call that hard these days when it comes to communication. I have a very supportive family – so I think i’m the one that decided to travel down this WRONG road. As for his family, I’ve seen him cuss at his father (since we all worked together at one point), have his parents pay his bills, and just generally treat them like crap, and I certainly wasn’t raised like that. It’s probably just as simple as wanting something so badly that you just can’t have. What’s funny at the moment is that I am older than this EUM so you would think I would be more in control or “mature” about the situation. I really do believe that being around a person who is not right for you for a long enough period of time can absolutely drain you no matter how much YOU think you can rise above it.
This site is amazing!! I have been trying to escape the rollercoaster drama of my ex EUM for the last 3 months and by reading everything on this site – I get stronger & stronger everyday and I can honestly say that no contact is the only way to move on. I moved out from the home I shared with my ex 3 months ago after 2 years of drama, verbal abusve, cheating, constant manipulation, hell basically- I thought I was going to have a nervous break down, I went from being a strong, confident, out going women – to a nervous wreck and having to take anxiety tablets, I was treading on eggshells & living in drama everyday and was constantly confused to how this man who had chased me so much in the beginning professing undying love for me (huge red flag I know now!) had turned into such a jackyl & hyde and seemed to actually hate me!! it took a lot of tears and reading sites like this to finally realise he was emotionally unavailable (and a narcissist too) and that it was nothing at all to do with me & nothing I could do would ever change him – I gave him so much love thinking I could and in the end realised I could of done cartwheels over broken glass for him and it wouldnt matter! but even after I finally found the strength to leave (after months of him telling me to go because he could not be with me anymore because of x.y,z & threatening me everytime he got drunk – which was often) I totally cut him off – but he still got in contact claiming he missed me etc but he didnt really miss me, he was not apologising for his appalling behaviour or begging me to take him back, he would just text to say he missed me hoping for a reply so he could then feel in control – and believe me ladies that is all what these lunatics are about, controlling you, controlling the boundaries of the relationship & staying in control even when you are not together anymore – all my ex wanted was a reply – ANY reply, it could be an angry rant or a simple I miss you too – anything that meant he had my attention and was still calling all the shots, I fell for it a couple of times he got in contact and believe me, all it did was set me back from recovery even further as he would just hurt me all over again, as it says in this post – emotionally unavailable is emotianally unavailable & these vampires are not going to change over-night, but if you let them they will keep you on the roller coaster until your completely broken. so answer to a post I read above – please do not make contact or reply to contact, they will eventually get bored & move on to another victem!!!
Kim – your post hit me close. I know I have some father issues but I thought I had worked them all out. I have walked away from bad relationships to. I was married to a man that didn’t give a damn about me or my job/interest or anything. We never talked about anything important. We each did or own thing. He spent every waking moment away from home at his deer camp and while I had a great house, all the clothes I wanted, a nice car, anything I wanted (which by the way I paid for myself working 2 jobs), I left him because he didn’t give me what I needed emotionally and I think, MY GOD..how did I ever get into this relationship? I’m stronger than this! I think I am the same way, wanting something I know I can NOT have. I am seeing I need therapy more and more every day. As for how he was raised..I couldn’t tell of any serious issues. He is an only child from older parents who didn’t think they could have kids so they were more like grandparents. He has scrapbook after scrapbook that his father made for him (just found that out)..so it makes me wonder what role his mother played in his life. He only speaks fondly of them both. They have both since passed away and I can tell how much he misses them both. I feel sorry for him because he has no family to speak of except his children. But you know what, he has chosen to be that way and thats his own fault. I can’t feel sorry for him..YUCK!
I’ve done no contact for six months and he hasn’t even tried to contact me (he was the one that cut me off). The problem is, it’s not getting any better. I’m dating other guys but still pining for him. And the other guys tell me they can tell I’m still hung up on someone. I don’t know what more I can do. Have been thinking recently about contacting him 🙁
nevergoingbackthereagain I am so trying to get to the moving out part too. I feel so impatient because I know I will be out soon. I broke up with my ex-EUM the day after Thanksgiving and started immediately looking for a new apartment. If I’m lucky I will be out by the end of this month. We live in seperate rooms, but I just feel like I can’t wait to get out completely and make a clean break and start my NC. It’s been three years of, “I love you, but I’m not in love with you”, “I want my own space”, “I don’t want to get married and have kids any time soon, even though I told you that I did”. I so over it and so on to myself. It’s a liberating feeling and I am so glad it’s finally over. I got tired of treating myself like crap by being with this guy. He has the emtional capacity of a stone, and I for one now love myself too much to put up with it anymore.
The NC rule is very difficult, but it is do-able. Moreover for your own sanity and peace of mind you have to do it. What alot of us women who fall for these men have to realize is that in some way, perhaps subconsciously, we attracted these men to us because we are also emotionally unavailable, we just manifest it differently. We are afraid of TRUE intimacy and if we are busy taking care of these men, chasing them, calling them, begging them to change, wallowing in our own self imposed suffering then we don’t have to do the work the we need to do with ourselves. think about the relationships you had with your father or your mother, think about whether you were happy and emotionally authentic and nurtured in you childhood, work on trying to heal yourself. The more energy you put into trying to figure out why these men behave the way they do, the less time you will have to work on you. They are not going to change, but you can change yourself.
Nikki – your doing the right thing & sound very strong, however be prepared for your ex trying to get you back once your gone & hes had a couple of weeks by himself!! my ex constantly put me down, finished with me, told me he could never settle down with ‘someone like me’!!! (yet in the beginning I was the most amazing women he had ever met!!) he constantly told me it was over & he could not comply with my ‘demands’ by being in a relationship ( by demands he meant the very basics!!) – but anyway the minute I left & gave exactly what had been saying he wanted!! he changed his mind & wanted me back!! – like I said though he never really wanted me back – he just needed to be in control whilst making sure I never really got on with my life and everytime I gave in to his contact the whole rollercoaster started again – this time I am going NC & never giving in again, Ive come to the conclusion it is just not good for me to be in contact with him – ever again!! I know in an ideal world it would be great if we could end on good terms/be friends etc – but these people are not normal or healthy so this is never going to happen!! – stay strong and stick to your guns, you will be out of there soon!! and really listen to all the advice on this fantastic site and stay NC!!!!
Kim….I so understand where you are coming from. It makes me so angry too that I blew off several really nice guys while I was in my making up to break up period with my xEUM. Meanwhile he was cheating on me and I’m sure he’s in another relationship now because there are so many women out there that will put up with this crappy behavior. So while I’m struggling with all the frickin loose ends and damage he left behind, he’s blissfully with another wounded woman. I’m actually mad at myself for putting up with it for so long. This probably bothers me more then anything else. I try not to dwell on it anymore but it’s hard not to feel the injustice of it. And it’s all because we attribute OUR emotions to them. We think because we are compassionate caring people that they are compassionate, caring people. No, they’re not. They’re selfish, man boys. They think to themselves, what’s good for me, not what’s good for her.
I swear I can’t believe I ever got myself involved with a man like this. I feel so used. I might as well have just taken two years out of my life and spent it scrubbing floors, that would have been more productive.
Listen to the words to Beyonce’s new song, “If I Were A Boy”. It says it all. Most men really do love themselves. It’s a lesson woman should take from them. Put yourself first sometimes, be a little selfish. It’s what they do.
Kim, how much older are you than this EUM? Can I his age?
nevergoingbackthere, you have it all covered and figured out and I hope you will stay away from him, he is an abuser.
No, you can’t be friends with this guy, you realized that he has way more issues than just being EUM, he is a controlling, manipulating, alcoholic narcissist, he could start therapy today and would not be helped by the time he is 80!!
I don’t know if you have heard from him, just be careful and watch your surroundings, don’t want to scare you, but him also being an alcoholic you never know what he may do if you ignore his contact.
I am not talking NOW, could be 6 months, a year later down the road.
stuck, cutting contact is not about to see what he will do, it is for YOU to get away and move on. I think you feel stuck because you are waiting to hear from him. Don’t wait on that clown, what if he makes contact with you? Will not be the reasons you want him to.
He is still the same guy that he was 6 months ago.
Stuck..
…the only thing you are stuck on and with is the ‘pain’… if you can turn it around to ‘he doesn’t exist, roll him up into a ball and throw him away, he’s garbage!! tell your self… ‘the pain is mine to let go of’ and then let go of it, bit by bit.Let some of it go and replace it with bits of love for you. Try to visualize what that love looks like when you mending the hole in your heart. do this everytime you feel the pain or think of him. I feel for you, it’s hard work, but the most important work to get you to the next level. Do it for you give yourself the love girl! De’s a waste of space and life it short.
Best and warm wishes to you all.
Hi All,
Okay, today is one week since my last contact with him (less the im he sent me two days ago which I’ve discarded). Here’s how I am feeling about it today, freer (I was losing myself to this guy). Being away from him, not responding and owning the the power is much easier than receiving text messages, responding to them and not getting a response back for a week or 2. It’s also easier than driving myself (and my friends crazy) about why he hasn’t responded or when is it that he will respond and besides, when he did respond it didn’t even address anything to do with the text screen from the previous text, it was always something new about him, or where he was or what he was doing, him him him. In my case the only communication was never through the normal avenues of communication, like a phone call (that would be too scary for him and would entail him becoming emotionally involved), unless of course we were planning on seeing each other, this wasn’t a relationship, it was a booty call!
Believe me, I know how you all are feeling but personally, I am more clear about what this is and not wanting to ever be in it again. These guys are NOT going to change (no matter what you do, there aren’t any words that can change the situation either, besides they’ve heard it before, it wouldn’t matter anyway) and there is NO relationship with these guys and they are NOT sitting there worrying about you!
I am living more peacefully and using my time more wisely by not checking my computer or cell phone every two minutes wondering whether he has contacted me, that did not feel good, owning the power does….Gail
Signing in so I can follow the discussion. I wish that this post had come 2 days earlier, ’cause that’s when I broke nearly 2 months of NC by accepting his 5 minute phone call. Same old same old – still saying he loves me, still professing his love, still unavailable and still an assclown.
No apology, still playing games and of course, it’s not his fault. Maybe THIS time I’ll get it in my head to have absolutely NOTHING to do with him…
I’m a little late to the party…again…but I have to say that the NCR saved me. Had I not put in place, I’d still be dealing with the assclown. It’s hard not to accept contact when he tries to make it, but accepting it is like starting over and that’s not a place I’m ever going again.
Remember when he tries, it means nothing. Absolutely nothing. To him you mean nothing. It will be hard, but it will also get easier with time. And then, at some point, you won’t feel tempted at all. You will get to that point where you can just blow it off and go on with your day. That is a good place!
I’m having a feeling today that I’ve never had and thats “not giving a damn”…in that I don’t really care if he tries to make contact or not and this is believe me a FIRST…all the other times by now I would be in that panic/desperation mode wanting and checking…this is only day 2 of NC so my question to all the accomplished ones here is …is this going to last or will I go back to those panic/desperation days? Is this just part of the grieving process and one of the stages? I sure hope not. In a way its like he has so sucked the life out of me I just don’t have the fight anymore, which is really a good thing I think..I just want it to last!
Don’t know if anyone is still reading this post from yesterday, but I have a question. I sent a pretty nasty text to him and now I feel bad for doing it. He may not even read it but the fact that I sunk that low is very annoying to be. I almost feel like bad kharma will come back on me for doing it. I almost want to send another message apologizing, but what’s the point? If he hasn’t responded to any others, what makes me think he will respond now? It’s a very empty feeling when you have wanted something for such a long time only to have it never materialize into something meaningful. I feel like maybe if I hadn’t sent that last message there might be some hope in the future of hearing from him. Totally ridiculuous and I’m so sick of this “what if” feeling. When I read these posts that tell me that I mean nothing to him, it’s extremely hard. I’m taking small steps to get through it – like remembering the times he did treat me like crap – but I also don’t want to dwell on those memories either. As far as the relationship I had with my parents, my father is extremely supportive but has told me that this is something that no matter how many people tell me this guy is not right for me, until I beleive that, no amount of talking will matter.
Kim – I have been exactly where you are now. Just leave it alone. It would be just like texting/talking to a brick wall. The love you give doesn’t phase them so why would the insults? I’ve said some pretty nasty things via text and then apologized to my EUM so I understand but just don’t do it. As far as the empty feeling, been there to and it is hard to accept that you love someone so much and they can’t feel even an ounce of anything toward you. UGH! As a friend of mine (guy) told me its the indifference that is worse than anything. Your father is right! Until you believe in your heart and until YOU have had enough nothing anyone says will mean anything. I’m not even telling anyone about this last and FINAL breakup because everyone is so sick of hearing/seeing it and no one is going to believe when I say I’m done this time anyway. That is pretty pathetic. When you have had enough, you will know. Just start NCR over with today and make today day one and stick to it! Good luck!!!
Trying to leave
Yes, my friends are getting sick of hearing about it – but they are nice enough not to say anything at this point. Everyone’s right – I just need to let go and move on. He let go a long time ago. Thanks for the point about the love not phasing him so why would the insults. Good luck to you too!!
Trying, no it won’t last for you, you will be in a panic in a few days, just tough it out.
Kim, sending a nasty txt was pointless, trying to apologize so that you may hear from him in the future is also pointless.
Ladies think about it, none of your actions will influence what he will do or not do, because everything is about HIM, what and when HE wants it.
lisaq, you are so right, some of you should print her comment and tape it on your PC/phone and when you get tempted to contact – just read it!
I have to ask this, are none of you ladies embarrassed that you are chasing him or let him you treat you like nothing, after you learned so much on this Website.?
I can remember when Natalie adviced me back then about my situation, I was sooo embarrassed and felt so stupid that it would have NEVER EVER crossed my mind to make contact with him again, I mean it. I wrote down everything that happened between us and I felt even less than nothing. I finally saw him for what he really is: a controlling, manipulating, insecure and low life USER. Keep in mind these type of people don’t just do that to the woman they are “dating”, they are using EVERYBODY.
Astelle – you are so right and Kim’s post made me start thinking about all the things I did and said to try and “win” him back before. I sent cards, wrote letters professing my love and *drum roll* most embarassing of all even sent him flowers. And get this…as soon as I sent them I knew I had screwed up so I played it off and told him to give them to his daughter as a homecoming happi! You know what…he did. He told me later they were beautiful and he wanted to keep them because of the unusual vase they were in but his daughter made him feel so guilty for not coming to see her on homecoming that night that he left them on her door step. OH GOD, how embarassed I am for that. When I think about those things I cringe! I haven’t ever gotten so much as a post it note from that jerk! And you are right, none of those actions meant nothing to him they just made me look desperate and pathetic.
Astelle
Yes I am embarrassed – but at that moment all I wanted was some response – anything. It makes me angry just to type this comment. No amount of rationalizing anything I’ve done will change the facts – he doesn’t want me and just doesn’t give a damn. I allowed him to turn this whole situation around on me and make me feel that I was the one creating drama and causing problems. I’ll have to deal with that – and I will. I’m new to the site so I’m reading everyday.
Kim – you could be me over the past year. I could have written your posts. Yes it is extremely painful to think you meant nothing to the guy. Extremely painful to see him with someone else and treating her well. When I saw him out at times I wanted to vomit, couldn’t sleep, stressed, drinking a lot, depressed, pain in my chest. It took me a year and a lot of reading to get my head on straight. All he wanted was to have his needs met. That is all he still wants. He is very immature and egotistical and totally self-serving. When I realized that I would be ashamed for my friends to see me with him again is when I finally let go.
Recently I met a new man. Exactly the kind of man I always wanted. I started to get anxious and could feel myself putting up walls and keeping him at arm’s length. I have done this before with nice men – started to feel claustrophobic and ran away. I made myself picture the new guy as my brother-in-law so that totally took out anything sexual and I was able to just be with him, enjoy his company and didn’t feel any pressure to kiss him or be more intimate than I wanted. Don’t know why but thinking a guy wanted sex always made me kind of nervous and with the EUM it was only sex. Anyway…. I have now dropped the “pretend he’s my brother-in-law” and am very comfortable with the new guy. We have spent the night together and it was good. I know I would have pushed him away early otherwise. He is kind, generous, patient, sweet and cares about me. In the past I didn’t know how to handle that because I really didn’t believe a man would want to be with “me the person” as much as “me the sex partner”. The painful healing I went through over the past year forced me to really think about who I am and what I have to offer. I always wanted the EUM to validate me and to make me feel special and when that didn’t happen I felt worse and worse about myself but with the EUM the connection was only sex anyway… he didn’t know the realy me. I thought about my true friends and realized they are all wonderful, caring and intelligent people. So I must be allright too if those people are my friends. Start there because you don’t need the EUM’s approval or acceptance. What kind of true friends do you have? If you think they are pretty good people then you are pretty good too. Then think about the men your friends or sisters are married to. Do you get along with them? Do they treat you with respect? I bet they do and it’s because you are a good woman. Think about the things you want to do with a man – talk, share a sunny afternoon at the beach, laugh…. and keep that in your head and the man that will do those things with you will show up.
Kim2 – Wow, you really do know where I am coming from. Your post really is me – minus any new guy at the moment. I’ve resolved in the next year (starting now) to make some changes in my behavior – I’ve also been paying close attention to that lately. I’ve noticed how cynical and negative I have become and when an “ex” ( a decent guy) spoke with me last, he mentioned how negative I have become and I was not the same person he remembered. That really hit home. Thanks Kim2
Kim – I was never treated as anyone special growing up. I wanted to be special to the EUM and sex was the tool. You know how that turned out… I got used and my self-esteem went in the toilet. He never got to know ME but I didn’t even know me. We jumped into bed right away and I was always on edge because I didn’t know his personality either. I thought if I was nice enough… fun enough… easy going enough… then I would be that someone special. I have to laugh at myself now for not realizing what I was doing.
Kim2 – your last post was very accurate. I thought if he was sleeping with me, then he wouldn’t want anyone else; if I was nice enough, then he wouldn’t leave. All the things we AREN’T supposed to do. My best friend asked me earlier to name 5 good things he did for me in the past year and I couldn’t. What the hell was I thinking??? Or better yet, i wasn’t thinking.
Astelle… I have been very embarrassed but I think there are other emotions driving us here. Perhaps you are not a very outwardly emotional person, I have always worn my heart on my sleeve and consider myself emotionally fearless so telling this guy was a jerk he was or how much he hurt me did not embarrass me it was part of my process.
Also, I have done what you did written it all down what things he did but then you know what happens I say “well ya but I was also really clingy and did this and that so that might explain why he felt the need to do this…” I have been on the other end of being smothered and it can freak you out you don’t know how to maturely handle the situation.
So while I have wanted to label my EUM as horrible and awful I could see where things went wrong, how I sometimes overreacted and have managed to twist it around in my head. So it’s not so easy for all of us to just make a list, in relationships the blame is somewhere between 10 and 90 percent for each partner, we can’t simply blame them. I think it’s why we accommodate their behaviour and hope that things could be different if we were different. Not saying it’s right, but I just felt it’s not fair to say aren’t you embarrassed by what you are doing. At the time no I wasn’t, I cared about someone who told me they really cared about me and I think these other women believe that too and so sometimes we have faith in life that this means something. I get what this site is about, it is good to face reality, but it takes time for your heart to catch up with your head.
Kim and Kim2 – I don’t want to seem like your situation is any easier but thinking about this makes me angry toward me EUM! Astelle – there goes the I don’t give a damn! Now I’m pissed because I do know my EUM. He has told me stories and stories about his childhood…he has shown me all the family scrapbooks, shared countless talks about out families and dreams etc. I spent every weekend with him and his kids, shared holidays with them all, sporting events, you name it! He even took us and showed us his families old home place where he grew up! That was me playing house! And what pisses me off is (and I will use NML’s phrase) those “crumbs” were accpeted as a “loaf”…those things made me think that we were “close”…I thought I knew him and what really makes me angry is he (at times) acted like he did give a damn! Now that makes me angry and sick to my stomach! I would almost rather I didn’t know anything about him or his life or childhood any of it!
Kim, I keep reading your posts and keep thinking that you are plagarizing me haha!
I did the nasty comments, he cut me off as a result… I ended the game and it was like no wait come back and create drama with me! Don’t lose site of the forest for the trees… I have done. I boiled our relationship failure down to my poor behaviour at the end which was nothing but a long time coming after what i put up with. I was out of control, desperate for him to say anything at the end to me that I would instigate. This too shall pass…
Dazed
Your last post about waiting for your heart to catch up with your head is where I am operating from at the moment. There were times I overreacted and that’s what I’m focusing on right now. But I have to say that there were times that he was ugly, mean and just an a$$ and he asked me to accept his apologies. I did, but I always felt like I was held to some higher standard..if I upset him then it was time for a”break.” There’s no way I could have ever been an important part of his life because HE didn’t want that. I won’t apologize for telling him how I felt about him or how much i care… that’s the type of person I am.
And honest, I’m not plagarizing you!! HAHA
While I agree with Dazed about the wearing the heart on the sleeve, I to have always been or felt I was in touch with my emotions and didn’t mind showing it because damn, I’m a loving, caring woman but at the same time would we have reacted clingy, smothering or whatever if they were normal? I don’t think so. In my case, anyway, I have to ask myself that. On the blame issue, I call it more accountability. I have to be accountable for my actions and with that being said I know I wouldn’t have done those things if he met my emotional needs to begin with. The red flags were there from week 1. Actually make that day 1! Blowing my phone up the day after we met and the next week saying “I don’t know if I”m capable, I’m hurting some” argh! I should have run like the wind that week! My EUM is not a bad guy, he isn’t horrible but bottom line our emotional needs aren’t and weren’t met! That to me is the bottom line and the reason why I embarassed myself with my actions.
We should never be ashamed of giving love. The problem is that we are giving our love to those who cannot accept it or appreciate it. It is important to forgive yourself and not beat yourself up about falling in love with an EUM. I would hate to see that we are starting to question and doubt our ability to having feelings for others and feel love for another person. There is nothing wrong with that! What is wrong is when we project love and care onto someone who doesn’t value it, appreciate it, and cherish it.
I hate to face this, but maybe in my case, this is just a situation that has run it’s course – not all relationships are meant to be, and I just don’t want to let go. Granted, this wasn’t a “normal” relationship – but it was me wanting the companionship of someone so badly that I settled with the idea that at least “something was better than nothing.” The the initial pain of losing even the small amount of time I spent with this guy hurts like hell that moment, but I think the hurt is more of me feeling sorry for myself and wondering how to fill that time now that he is gone.
Rejection stings – no matter what form. Nobody wants to think they are not good enough. We all want to feel loved – especially by the person that just dumped us.
That’s the trap of the EUM–they make you think you are not good enough, which is absolutely NOT TRUE. Toxic people are masters at making you feel worthless, which is why we need to stay away from these people!
Finally,
You hit the nail on the head!
Toxic people make us feel worthless if we allow it.
Tryingtoleavehim thanks for saying the thing about “would we have been clingy had they been normal.” I know separate from this person that I have issues BUT I certainly have never behaved as crazily as I did with this person. I kept thinking oh it was me, I jumped in to fast, he said it moved faster than any other relationship for him but wait, wasn’t he the one that said on our first date he was crazy about me, who said after one month he thought about living with me and called me his g/f… who told me he wanted me to meet his mother. Then when they suddenly disappear or stand you up you find yourself perplexed and unable to read them, and the talking starts. So thank you for reminding me, it’s not all us these were toxic situations.
FinallyOverIt you are so right about the EUM making you feel like you aren’t good enough. My EUM made me feel this way the entire time we were together. He was trying to do the same the night we split, but I wouldn’t allow him to throw that rope over my head anymore. The truth of the matter is that while we’re insecure and have low self-esteem so do they. The difference is that we beat ourselves up when we have low self-esteem, and they beat us up even more because they have to make you feel worse in order to make themselves feel better. They turn their low self-esteem the other way and try to tear others down because they dont’ feel good enough. My ex-EUM had me convienced at first that he was such a great, catch, but now looking back he’s not that great of a catch at all. He’s 10 years behind where he should be emotionally, careerwise and everything. I’m working on my masters, and he can’t even bring himself to finish his bachelors yet. I’d convinced myself that not only was this guy on my level, but he was above me. He feel like a loser to himself because his entire family is fully of engineers and science & math people with degrees and he’s the only one who doesn’t have one yet, even his younger sister has a degree in Industrial Engineering. He was feeling like such a loser when she graduated from college he couldn’t bring himself to go to her graduation. Yet I let him project his own feelings of failure on me as though it was something I needed to fix. Man was my vision so screwed up!
Ladies, I just wanted to let you know that it does get better. And you do not have to have another man to do it. Stick it out. It is so worth it. See, if you take this time to get to know yourself, it will be worth it. My story is just like all of yours. I was involved with an EUM for over 2 years. I started no contact after the “deal breaker” for me…4 months ago and counting. It hurts and some days are unbearable for me. But then I wake up and feel like a superhero, reveling in the fact that I did it again…meaning, I did not give in to my thoughts to contact him. Everyday is different. With the holidays among us, I have been having a hard time with the “NC”. My mind is bogged down with memories of what used to be (good times). But I remind myslef of what used to be (bad times). How I did not trust him, how he is a player, user, manipulator and NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME. Don’t give in to contacting them. Remeber that your self-esteem and sanity are on the line. Do you love yourself enough to keep moving in the direction to someone who will truly care for you, someone who will respect you and be loyal to you, someone you trust and someone who loves you just as much as you love them? Wait it out with me. We can do this. I am encouraged by your posts. As you can probably tell, I am having a good day….stay strong my sistahs….STAY STRONG!!
Dazed – I have told my EUM this very same thing “I don’t know why I act this way, I never have done this kind of thing before with anyone else” and after the last reconcilation, I asked him if he thought I was crazy and his answer was “yes, for wanting to be with me”…just remembering that statement makes me think twice!
Trying,
There much more than just that statement to get you to move on.
Only remember the shabby treatment and how your needs were never fulfilled.
Thank you Gaynor! Its not just the emotional part. How about the physical? This relationship has made me physically ill. Whenever I am upset with him I get physically sick. As soon as I eat a meal I have to run straight to the bathroom. Not only that, I have a rash that develops on my face. Now, this is only when I am upset with him like I am now. Its so embarassing to be at lunch with co-workers and have to run to the bathroom. Today my girlfriend said she can tell now when its my nerves because the rash appears and the other starts. Now if that is not enough, I don’t know what else would be.
hey ladies,
I agree with Moving On… practising NCR at the beginning is Hell! but it can be done. Do it one day at a time. Like I said in an earlier post, busy yourself with something other than HIM! when you feel the urge to contact him, call a friend instead, go to a movie, go for a walk or run, get your nails done, get a massage, FOCUS ON YOU because He never did and he never will, so you have to…and believe me he is NOT thinking about you in any way shape or form. He has put you out of his life and mind. It’s a bitch, but ACCEPT it and go on and live the fabulously happy life you deserve.
Tryingtoloveagain that’s the part that I remember… I think back to the summer and how I spent my mornings and nights planning, thinking, worrying. When we broke up and I deleted all the emails of things I wrote “trying to fix us” I just realized how bored I was and how much of a project I needed.
I am super busy right now but when work and my social life slow down a bit I still feel it that sense of oh god I have nothing to do what now? I have always been terrible at sitting still and I’m wondering if you ladies are like that too? It’s part of why I create drama and talk talk talk.
Trying,
I lost a lot of weight too. My friends were very concerned for me. Gee, I wonder if they care how their actions-or how we allow their actions-affect our health. I think Not!!!!!!! Have you considered any anti-anxiety medication? I can’t believe that I allowed myself to get so upset to the point it had effected my mental and physical well being.
I guess what you need to ask yourself is, how badly does he have to treat you to move on?
Dazedandconfused it is like that for me. I grew up in a house where drama was an garanteed constant because my mom was always with some man that was totally inappropriate wether it was drugs, alchol, beating her or my brother or worst molesting me. It because familar in the sense that when I got older and swore that I would never live the same life or become my mother I did just that. I found a way to create drama to keep myself from having to work on me and my issues. I finally got to a place where it’s ok for me to have some down time and not always doing something or on the go. Now I’m so glad to have the drama behind me.
Gaynor… ah the weight loss 🙂 My friends were worried… I spent months losing weight, constantly worrying. My EUM saw me and made a mocking joke about how much weight I had lost.
My EUM even said after a fight one night “now don’t go home being all worried I am the one who messed up and won’t spend half the time thinking about this that you will.” He just said it just like that… It’s so true.
Dazed – I think that is my problem to. His life has become my exsistance. I have put him first for so long, I don’t know anything else and the only reason I’ve done that is to TRY and win him over. I always make his problems my priority and try to help him fix them. My mom has invited me shopping with her on Saturdays but because I didn’t want to be away from that assclown I would say no. When I think about sitting home alone I get so depressed and down its pittiful. I know that if I can just find something else to occupy my time when I’m home alone I would be okay.
Dazed and Confused
Your comment about how you feel when you social life slows down really hit home. I know I will start having those feelings very soon – especially with the holidays coming around. Maybe the down time will force me to re-examine myself and start putting me FIRST – for a change.
Kissie
You are absolutely right that he NEVER focused on me so why should I ever think I might cross is mind in the future.
Gaynor – I haven’t lost weight yet but am wanting to..*chuckle*..being with my EUM doing nothing but eating and drinking wine has made us BOTH fat! He has gained 40lbs and I’m about the same. Right now its just the old nerves reaking havoic on my body. I do want something for anxiety but with my job situation I don’t have insurance coverage.
Dazed – your EUM reminds me of mine. Once after our one of our 6 breakups I called him pathetcially just saying I needed to hear his voice and before we hung up he said “don’t go and crawl in the bottle”..the last time, I spent three days in the bed, crying non-stop with my stomach problems and all and on that Sunday he text me, I let him come pick me up and when he asked me what I had done all weekend, I told him the truth. He looked right at me and said “you have to stop doing that”….and damn, he is right. They aren’t sick or not able to function so why the hell should we be?
Dazed,
Oh my God!!! What an ass…….!!!
Mine had made a comment about my being bony. He knew I was upset about the weight issue, I hope he didn’t realize it due to our breakup. I would hate to give him that much power!
Trying,
There are so many things you can be out doing. I do volunteer work, Salsa dancing, bowling, cultural related things, the list goes on and on.
Tough love time again.You have allowed this man to become your entire life and no one else. You’ve got to stop making excuses and make some productive changes. What other choice do you have? You’ve got to stop making yourself a victim.
Also, we cannot expect others to fulfill us, we must fulfill ourselves.
Trying
Your comment about living your life around him could have been written by me. I’ve been reading many articles on this site over the past few days and all I can say is that I should have pulled my head out of my a$$ a long time ago. When I read what you wrote, my first thought was how sad – but then I realized it applied to me. We have got to STOP this obsessing. If I can do it, you sure as hell can!! EUM’s never prosper – because they SUCK!!
Gaynor, I know and I don’t mean to sound like I’m a victim, I guess I did in that post about being down with alone time. I know that I have allowed this to happen and I am the one responsible for the change. I have never been so upset about anything that it made me physically sick before and I just can’t understand that. I have to reconnect with friends that I lost because of this man and I’m going to. I am thinking about getting a 2nd job just to keep busy. I have books to read and I hope that will help as well. I know I need to spend time on me for a change. Thanks for the Tough Love!
Trying,
The sad thing is that many of us on here have been in your position to some degree. You’re not alone. What i am trying to say is that you will move on from this sooner than can imagine now but you have to allow yourself to move on. We can be our own worst enemies by holding on to the pain and drama in our lives. Have you considered meditation. It has helped me.
Also my alone time has become great! I go home now to an empty house and throw on my track pants and think why did I not do this more often! Someone above, sorry losing track of each one, said something about not wanting to do other things for fear of being without the EUM. I did this!!! Not sure why, trust or what but I would turn down doing other things because I did not like the idea of him being off on his own and me not knowing what he was up to. Astelle no need to say it “control! 🙂 But I just knew I kind of couldn’t let him out of my site because he might not come back. It’s insane but that’s the case.
It’s so nice now when someone says want to hang out I just say yes!
Gaynor, I have not thought about mediation…can you give me some references on how to start that? I hope it does come soon…;-) Thank you for all the encouragement from everyone!
Trying – Your story is so like mine and I too ended up physically ill, I was sleeping tablets, anxiety tablets, drinking too much & the pain some days in my heart & stomach was unbearable – I couldnt sleep or eat, it was mad and I could see how worried all my friends & family were (& still are too some degree) as my EUM just destroyed me & all hope I had in everything!! then a couple of weeks ago I hit rock bottom & realised I needed to sort myself out – for me!!! you just have to accept the situation for how it is & put the focus back on yourself, I made a promise to myself that I was not going to shed one more tear over him & everytime I got that stomach aching urge – I would get cross with myself & make it stop, so instead I have been doing a lot of reading on sites like this and I can highly recommend a book called ‘men that cant love – how to recognise a commitmentphobic man before he breaks your heart’ it is so spot on!! I have just finished reading it & I am going to read it again just to make sure the message is clear!! – and it really is!! the book really makes you realise that you are fighting a losing battle with these men – you could be the most beautiful, loving, caring women ever – and it would not make any difference!! anyway it really did help me & im finding im starting to put things into perspective a lot more, Ive also started going to the gym every night – even if its only for a quick swim or a half hour jog – I know its a cliche but I feel so much better already, I also have this lovely ritual now too of lighting lots of candles before I go to bed at night and reading this blog for an hour – it so helps!! and also like you, I lost so many of friends whilst I was in my 2 year relationship so slowley day by day, Im going to reconnect with all my friends and start getting my life back and as for you being down during your alone time – you should learn to enjoy it, look after yourself, make nice food for yourself, paint your nails, watch re-runs of satc!! I know all this sounds corny – but I hope it helps, I have stopped taking all my medication now & im determind to get better & not let him ruin my life, I think what Gaynor said is right – we can be our own worst enemies and I know to some degree that the pain & drama is addictable, when I first broke up with my EUM I literally felt empty – I even went back a further 3 times!! its like I couldnt stop myself, but it never got better infact it got worse, more abuse, more put downs, more pain, its like he could see how pathetic I was & knew he could do exactly what he wanted – not anymore!!
Please try the books/gym etc before medication – I can honestly say it did not help me at all, I was tired, stressed and looked awful, since ive come off all the tablets i honestly feel betterx
Dazed, no I am not going to say “control, you crack me up! 🙂
Nevergoingbackthere, it does gets worse every time you go back, it shows him that he has no boundaries – none – and can do what he wants.
MovingOn, it does get better and the pain will go away because you don’t care anymore. I wish we could fastforward 6 months for some of the Ladies here. 🙂
I just changed my name to finallylefthim. Thanks nevergoingback…my rock bottom was tonight! He text me and I broke ncr and wound up worse than ever. I asked him how he could do this to me, be so cruel, he was void of emotion, going to be old and alone on and on and all he said was “BS, I had no clue, I was bashing him and goodnite”..it ended with me telling him to never contact me again, don’t text, don’t call and I never wanted to see him or hear his voice again and I hope to God that I don’t have to. I cried for a few minutes but I’m not crying now. And all I can do is sit here and tell myself that nothing I said mattered, he doesnt care and even my telling him that means nothing..like I said today I might have well as been texting a damn brick wall. I’m such a fool but he has made a fool out of me for the last time. Tomorrow is another day as Scarlett once said and tomorrow is going to be MY day..the first day of MY new life without that assclown in it. Thank you all so much! This website and these posts are the best thing that I could have ever found! xxooo…
Trying,
I live in NYC, so I don’t know what the options are in your area. I would just Google: free meditation classes with your city name and see what comes up. I hear that yoga is great too.
You know when I look back at that ridiculous situation last year I can’t believe that I let it effect me the way it did. I say this b/c my brother is going in for brain surgery tomorrow, he has stage 4 lung cancer which has spread to the brain and must have a tumor removed. Ladies, these are the things that are important in life, the people that really love and care about us, not these losers that couldn’t give a rat’s behind about our well being. What I am trying to say is put your energy into something important, don’t waste your time or love on these fools.
Joins the embarrassed queue… broke 10 days of no contact going well don’t know what I was thinking.. sent the most embarrassing text!! Only thing I can do is go back to day one which is now day 2…
I also compare my two EUMs and one does win out over the other but its true Emotional unavailability is still not getting what you want and need and still trying to get it from someone ill equipped and unable to give you what you need..
It is very encouraging to read the truth and be aware of the pit falls..
Gaynor– all the best to you and your family during this difficult time.
Tulipa– Don’t beat yourself up. I have sent ridiculous texts and it’s just a slip up it’s not the end of the world. We beat ourselves up over little texts but you are aware it’s wrong. I keep telling myself this let’s say I had been the perfect g/f, and I had not been clingy, given him space, things had grown slowly, he had been able to frolick around and I had sat back and let it happen WE MIGHT STILL BE TOGETHER! From our perspectives right now we see sending silly texts as breaking down, you didn’t go back! You aren’t still in it… these are big accomplishments so give yourself a pat on the back and keep moving forward.
Gaynor – you, your brother and family are in my prayers!
Thank you Trying and Dazed.
I agree – one text is a slip up, but don’t punish yourself for it. Just dust yourself off and get back on track. I was just talking with one of my friends yesterday about the “what if” stuff – what if things were different, if I had been more perfect and yadda yadda… My thought is that it really doesn’t matter how you acted, because first of all if you acted any differently you wouldn’t be yourself and the relationship would be based on a lie. Second, I really don’t think it matters if any certain mistake or mishap in the past was different – something else would have just come up some other time and had the same effect on the outcome – which is always bad no matter who the woman he’s involved with is. This is because these guys are d-bags, and the more you accommodate them, the more they will take from you until you have nothing left. In my case, when I look back, the “mistakes” and “mishaps” that came between us was me grilling him about sleeping with other women, never calling me back when he said he would and disappearing for a week or so at a time. In hindsight, what really would have been the right way to handle that – he was acting like an assclown, and I got pissed. The only alternative was to be ok with that behavior, and that just doesn’t make sense.
Hi everyone. I found this site by accident – and this article was the first one I came across.
Ladies, please get over yourselves – these men don’t want you – don’t you get it???? Stop wallowing in self pity and get on with your lives. Your creating these dramas. Put a period at the end of it and MOVE ON. It’s called life and you can’t change the past – that’s why it’s the past. These men don’t want YOU and they NEVER will. When the right woman comes along for them – believe me, they will change. Face it, you are not the right one and on the flipside – they are not right for you.
Yes, this is harsh – but women like you are why “normal” men tend to think we are all a drama queens. Lose the baggage already!!
I find it ridiculous that any man that doesn’t want us, we start to label them as “Emotionally Unavailable” when the simple fact is that we are putting way too much emphasis on men. If a man doesn’t see the good in you – MOVE ON. That’s what men do when they don’t find what they want – they move on to the next person.
Stop overanalyzing the situation. Most of stories I’ve read are about men who were not “available” to begin with. How can any relationship start when one of the parties hasn’t even made it to the playing field yet.
I have been in your shoes ladies…I’m not a cynical b–tch by any means, but women tend to think that everything issue, every action by a man needs to be addressed and rationalized to the umpteenth degree. It’s crazy -we have better things to do with our lives. I guarantee there isn’t a baggage reclaim website for men to discuss these issues.
Stop sitting in the corner waiting for a man. Get out and live our life – maybe then you will find the RIGHT guy. Just make sure you have your emotional baggage “checked” – otherwise you will be back on this website crying the blues the next time around. YOU are the only constant in these situations.
Elisa, welcome to the site. Because this is an open forum you are welcome to speak your mind of course but I do have a couple of things to say in response.
You are right about us being the constant in these relationships, and when simply put these men did not want us and they were not right for us. However, I do take issue with your comment that these men will “change” when they find the right one. I have dated plenty of men who were not right for me and vice versa. The difference is I did not stay with these men nor did they stay with me and lie, cheat, deceive, disappear, play mind games, put me down, come and go as they pleased… they simply left.
People who behave in this manner do not simply become good, moral, caring people overnight because they found someone compatible. There is a difference between recognizing that two people are not a good fit and good healthy people do this and they each respect one and other.
So while I respect your point of you, the purpose of this site is that women with shared experiences with men who would come around and tell them they were fantastic, then go away, then come back, etc. are talking about how this made them confused because this was not a simple case of “there was no spark and we just were not connecting and it was bad timing in life.” If you have not had this experience, then I think that is fantastic and you are likely making healthy dating choices. This site is for women who recognize that they have not done so, that we have allowed ourselves to stay in relationships with men who are not so black and white as you seem to think here. Have you ever dated someone that you said I’m sorry this is not working then they came banging your door down saying they loved you and you said o.k then let’s work on this only for them to say actually I’m wrong? You cannot simply tell all the women on this site who have gone through this that “this man did not want you get over it.” While in the end the relationship clearly was not working, this was a roller coaster than we have all shared and it has left us confused and a bit hurt and so we are trying to develop a forum in which we can support one and other through this.
Botton line, I do not think this has so much to do with “he did not want you” but rather, this relationship was not working. PLease do not imply that we were all just too stupid to pick up on it… when emotions are involved it’s very hard to be rational when one minute someone says they love you and then suddenly leave you.
I hope you can at least respect that our experiences may have been different from yours and we are choosing to address that in a different way than you see necessary.
Dazed
I do respect everyone’s opinion. But this forum is also supposed to teach everyone to move on with their lives. You continue to play the victim role and then wonder “why” this happened. If you continue to allow it to happen or engage is “why me, what if and etc.” you don’t grow and you don’t learn.
and yes, i have had the experience of a man continually coming back and promising change – but how many chances do you give in before you finally have enough? The power is in your hands to say “no”.
It’s not your job to fix a man. You have to fix yourself.
Sorry, but it’s the truth whether you want to accept it or not. We only have control over ourselves.
Dazed
Rehashing every moment of the relationship is not healthy. I also never implied anyone was STUPID. If you read my comments – nowhere did I imply that.
We are smarter and stronger than we think – but we don’t give ourselves enough credit. So why should a man???
Dazed and Elisa…you are both right. At some point, you get out of it…at some point, you are a victim. Until you are ready to move on, that is when you will do it. So, there are a couple of things going on here…what is your deal breaker? If you don’t know, then you will continue to go back for more. You have to be ready to endure the hard times of him not calling you. You have to be strong when you want to call him, but know that there is no use in it because it will just make it worse (ie, you feeling stupid or embarrassed or him promising things that he cannot deliver). The point is to vent and get it out of your system. Here on this site, you are able to do it without judgement..without feeling stupid. Maybe, your family and friends no longer want to hear how this is the last time. So, you sought out understanding elsewhere. This is the place for it. So, you have Elisa play the bad cop, and give you a little tough love. There is nothing wrong with it. In everything there is a season! You just have to figure out what season you are in. I suggest reading Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl (it’s good and will make you think about your role in all of this) AND the Bible. There is hope there….God is there when no one else will be. Psalms 55:22 says “Cast thy burden upon the Lord and he shall sustain thee. He shall never suffer the righteous to be moved”. There is joy in that passage. To know that there is someone I can give my burdens to (even my heartache) and he will keep me from losing my mind, is a beautiful thing. I rejoice in that passage for I know that I will not be in this season forever. You got to find joy in your life. Take the time that you have alone and dig in your “baggage” and clean it up! Learn to love yourself enough to tell the next EUM that steps to you that you are not having it AT ALL. You need to be stronger for you. We are to protect our hearts not someone else. Take this time to find out who you are, what you want and go and get it!!
“We are smarter and stronger than we think – but we don’t give ourselves enough credit. So why should a man???”
Elisa – I whole heartedly agree with that statement. We need to realize our value and not put up with BS.
The men we are talking about here are game players and it has taken us all time to see them for what they are. They come on strong and pursue the woman only to start acting shady after they’ve won her. It is confusing when she thought he was a nice guy and he acted like a nice guy at first. Instead of him saying “it’s not working” he acts like a jerk and the woman wonders what happened.
I appreciate your honesty but comes off a little strong for someone with a broken heart.
Kim 2 and everyone else.
I was in the same place EVERYONE on this site was in not too long ago. My tough comments aren’t meant to belittle anyone. But you have to realize – and you will – that these men do not want you. They just plain don’t. And they will change at some point for what THEY consider to be the right woman. It’s human nature to want what you can’t have. But in some cases, do you really want to feel sick to your stomach, worried, anxious or always “waiting” for something to change? If you WANT that, then your issues are much deeper than any relationship with a man. Remember, being with someone should make you feel BETTER not worse. Men (and women) make mistakes all th time but if you find yourself having to do all the apologizing, or silence yourself when you need to speak in fear that he will walk, then it’s not a healthy relationship. Think back to when you were in a good relationship and there was a disagreement – you were able to COMMUNICATE how you felt without the fear of the other person calling it quits. When a man or woman acts this way, they are not investing themselves in the relationship, nor do they want to. If a man wants to be with you, but has some issues he is working on – believe me, he will make known UP FRONT to you. And he will ACCEPT your support and encouragement and GIVE it as well.
Elisa, I respect your comments and think based on your second string that there may have been a slight misinterpretation. I guess when you just said “face it these men do not want us” I do not agree with that statement. I feel it’s not an issue about us not being liked and not being able to handle that. Because in the end I think we don’t really want these men either it’s just that we are accepting less than we want out of fear of being alone. I have not read the book he’s just not that in to you, but my girlfriends who have have told me that they disagree with it because they feel it’s disempowering for women, that it’s basically about us liking people saying oh they did not like us. I think often with relationships one partner may just see it before the other does.
I complete agree with your statement that it’s not our job to “fix someone” but I guess that’s what I am trying to say there is something kind of “wrong” with these men beyond them being not just for us. I can’t say they are whole heartedly awful people, or that there was nothing wrong with us either, but the way they handle these situations makes them bad partners for anyone and that’s the thing I’m not sure will just change because the right woman comes along. I guess what upset me about that statement you made is that it implies that it is somehow within the power of the partner they find to make them “different” but it has nothing to do with Mr. or Mrs. right but rather each individual being good on their own.
To dazed…
There’s a saying that I finally accept as being completely true. “If God brought you to it…. he will bring you through it.”
Some people are brought into our lives to make US change. These a$$clowns (love that term) might be nothing more than a “wake up” call to check our own behavior. It doesn’t mean they are bad, horrible, mean people BUT neither are we just because it didn’t work out.
I agree with what you are saying, I did not really take issue with the fact that this guy no longer wanted our relationship either. It was not working, I was a mess too but what I took issue with was that he went out of his way to tell me all this stuff at the end, after dumping me, about our future, how amazing I was, that we would be together.
I am angry about the mixed messaging. When we broke up my reaction was actually ok you need to sort yourself out. When he said he wanted to be friends, to come back for me, for us still to be close but then found a new g/f a couple weeks later it was all that buttering me up at the end that has left me very angry because I just feel dishonesty like that was so unneccessary. IT’s that behaviour that makes these men not normal, or healthy.
So had he just broken up with me, while painful, I have gone through that before and dealt with it quietly and patiently. This was a whole other kettle of fish however. I get your point, the message in the end is the same, but can you see what I mean about just adding salt to the wound at the end?
And as I get older, and confident in who I am, and what my values and morals are I can say that yes, the way this man treated me makes him a mean person. I am a strong believer in treating people with kindness and respect. I do not think he is horrible and mean because he was unhappy and dumped me, but if I told you all the things he did after we broke up… that is not a way to treat a person. It was selfish and self serving and I think that’s what women on here are addressing. IF you do not want someone you need to let them go, be honest and up front. It’s hard but that’s life… I did it yesterday telling the guy I was dating that I am just not feeling it between us he said he respected my honesty.
I haven’t seen this issue addressed. Suppose he came back professing how much he changed and you took him back. In the back of your mind, would you be wondering how long this would last and would he ever go back to this “old ways?” Even IF he does change, do you want to be with someone who in the past has taken you through such hi’s and lows, that it cost you sense of self worth? I personally don’t want to be with someone that took my heart and love for granted in the past, regardless of how they behave now. If you couldn’t do it right in the beginning, how the hell could I believe you now?
Oh I have no intention of ever being with this man. The place where I am at now is this: apart from his behaviour he is not the person for me. I do not think he would ultimately be the best partner for me in the long run based on communication skills, and the way he solves conflict. However, we had a fantastic connection in terms of interests. That might sound odd but I have never dated someone with whom I could suggest doing something, cooking something, a movie, a joke, etc. that had us on the same page. My friends liked him, he was attractive, etc. Now this does not a good lasting relationship make HOWEVER my fear is not finding someone who will have these qualities again. I am just going through the worrying phase that I somehow screwed it up with this guy and that’s why I play the what if game. But as I get older I realize that for a relationship to really last through tough financial times, children, and the lot that there are thins beyond fun and common interests that will need to be there that are not.
I am weak to the memory of him, to our good times, but I can say with certainty that we would not have a happy long lasting marriage.
Dazed
I really do apologize for coming across as harsh. I’ve been where your at but I just beleive that you are better than all the crap you have been taking from this guy. It’s hard when you heart is invested – I know that. I have the same fear you do of NEVER meeting the right person. I read your last few posts and you’ve already met someone and realized that you weren’t interested and made that clear. That’s how mature people handle life. Look, my last guy proceeded to tell me all the things that were wrong with ME… I cried and thought i was the worst person ever. Then it hit me…. who the hell does HE think he is? This guys got issues of his own and he has the nerve to sit in judgement of me? A-$-$-H-O-L-E!!! Who cares if he’s good looking, smart or whatever… it only matters how he treats you (or how YOU let him treat you).
Worrying invites fear and fear brings along the A$$clowns….. just live your life the way YOU want to and what’s meant to be will be. I read “He’s Just Not That Into You” and there’s a great comment “Have faith, what else is there?”
Best of Luck in the new year ahead!!
Elisa, what is the issue that you have not seen addressed?
Astelle,
my prior post about what would happen if he did come back and changed.
Elisa, your latest post is great! That is what I think was missing from your first that started this chain. That’s just it to me saying “this guy does not want you” ok fair enough, that is true, doesn’t mean I am wrong or he is wrong this site for me though takes issue with 1) the way these men handle these situations and 2) that we women need to wake up to this behaviour and the fact that in the end it means the same as “I do not want you.”
You are not harsh 🙂
Dazed,
One last comment ….. I’m not saying to leave a relationship at the first disagreement or after the first “mishap.” Everyone makes mistakes. But if a man won’t take any steps on his part to resolve a problem that would put an end to a needless argument, then you may want to ask yourself if he’s worth it. If you give a man an ultimatum that things need to change or “else” be prepared to follow through with that “or else” part. Because if you don’t and allow him to come back, he will have lost whatever respect he had for you. And I speak from experience. That is how A$$clowns are created!!
Elisa, we dont create A**clowns, they have been that way probably since early childhood. 🙂
Bottom line is they don’t change. They don’t know how to give love, accept love or anything that goes with being in a relationship. I can speak from experience because mine is plain old damaged! I don’t know when, where or how but I suspect it took place sometime in his failed 17 year (according to him) bad marriage. The fact is he is to lazy to fix whats wrong with him and he sits there and says “don’t know whats wrong with me…don’t know why…why do you want to be with someone like me” ARGH..enough with the self pity already. He says he loves me but damn…he is to lazy to get off his A*& and deal with the issues he has. That would be to much work and he doesn’t want to have to put any effort into it. Its not that he isn’t right for me or I’m not right for him, he can’t be right for anyone! Okay..now theres me..why did I stay in it for 18 months go back 5 times? Other than the fact that I do love him…I hoped, wished he would change. And here is the BIG ONE…because “fixing” him meant I didn’t have to deal with my own insecurities and commitment issues. Now I have to look in the mirror and face the ugly truth. I have to fix me! Will he come back? Yes, he always does but he will never ever change! The only thing that has changed in our relationship is ME and thats for the better.
Almost didn’t post due to Elisa’s message – good points, but there is no weakness in seeking out support to make big life changes (and getting away from EUMs requires facing and changing long ago engrained psychological patterns). It would be great it there was a light switch for everyone to just “lose the baggage”, but usually takes some effort and work, and on a constant basis for some.
I had not visited site a while, 31 days NC, felt good. After 3 months and 2 breakups, I decided was tired of the situation, deserved more, and when I pressed about “am I your girlfriend?” and that I did not want an “open” relationship, he verbally turned on me, calling me emotionally unstable and said I was weird because I have no children. Bizarre, and showed his true colors. ALL I had said was I want a loving, sexually monogomous, real relationship, and he said never call or text again. I didn’t.
I thought I had left it behind me, sleeping better, feeling good just by myself. He sent a text – saying he is an idiot, sorry, would you please talk again, etc. (A TEXT). I had deleted number, but stupidly replied. Interesting part: I was bad sick with a cold, and replied briefly, mentioned sickness, and he said to call him when I felt better! Ha! This is classic – if it doesn’t result in sex, not worth his time.
Question: Will I be strong enough to just ignore next text? I am shocked I am even thinking that a reply is an option. There are are “shades of gray”. Reading article and comments helps immensely.
Astelle: Love comment about it gets worse every time you back, no boundaries for him, so true.
They don’t WANT to make an effort to change FOR YOU. They might make that effort with someone else in the future and that’s ok. But what everyone needs to realize is that no matter what, we need to move on with our lives AND FAST.
Think of how much time we’ve spent on this topic alone….We are discussing (more like obsessing over) men who probably haven’t thought about us once since the last break.
Elisa, I’m sorry I have to disagree with that or at least I can say for mine he won’t change for anyone. The next woman that comes along may get on great with him but it will be because she doesn’t expect anything from him. The moment she does, he will tell her the same crap! I think everyone’s situation is different but the one thing we all here have in common is that we loved someone who isn’t capable of returning the love back and so we come here for inspiration, venting and change. I get something out of almost every single post on here and even come back and re-read at times so it helps me anyways.
I don’t think they will change for a particular woman either. It wasn’t ME that he wasn’t willing to put effort into creating a relationship with – it was HIM. He treated every woman before me the same and the woman after me the same. So Elisa I have to disagree with the “he’s just not into YOU” theory because I think these men are narcissistic and will remain that way no matter which woman they are with.
Trying
That may be the case, but why would you care what he does when he meets another woman? The point of this forum is to help others move on, isnt’ it. To suggest that he will do this again to someone else, means that you are still projecting yourself into a relationship that only exists in your head.
…. oh want to add that I do not want this man back. The reason I come here is to understand what it was about myself that I didn’t see the real him sooner… how did I go along for over a year with his hot/cold now-you-see-me/now-you-don’t behavior. He strung me along and I was confused pretty much the whole time. When I backed off he came forward. They are jerks and it’s their personality – not the woman they are with.
Elisa, I never said I wanted him back and I don’t care what he does in the next relationship. I was simply disagreeing with your point it was just he didn’t want to change for me and the relationship did exist not just in my head because the thing is I believe this man does love and care about me but only to the extent that his wonded heart will let him and that will be the same case with anyone else. He has emotional issues as well as I but the only difference is I want to fix me.
Gave me a key to his house, asked me to go vacation with him, slept all night with his arms wrapped around me and the next day acts like he barely knows me. WTH!! I think he had a split personality. Now I hope he gets hit by a truck.
Hi, I just wanted to say that I disagree with some of what you are saying, Elisa–I firmly believe that there are some men (and women) who are incapable of having healthy loving relationships with ANYONE, and although you say that men who don’t want YOU will find someone down the road that they do want, and then they will be the perfect loving partner to that person, but just not you…..I don’t buy that. It may be possible, but very unlikely.
I had written this in response to a different “thread”…
I was with someone for 14 years. After a week vacation (with friends, who thought that we were “closer than everâ€) and a month before my 40th birthday (when I thought I might be getting engaged), he broke up with me. No warning, no reasons, nothing. One day he was himself—and the next day he never wanted to see me again. Before you start asking–Yes, he knew I wanted to get married and yes, he knew i wanted kids. We worked on restoring a house together (his house). We did not live together.
Two months later he starts dating an old friend (not in our social cirle) (she is divorced, 2 grown kids, they had been work friends for about 8 years, I knew of her, never met her-I trusted him.). Less than 10 months after that, he asks her and the kids to move in. He is happy. All of our common friends say that he is happy and that I should move on. I am not and I am finding it impossible to move on.
It has been a year and a half. I am still devastated. My entire life has been turned upside down. Now, in my 40’s, I need to find a new set of friends (only because everyone reminds me of him and they still hang out), learn how to date (I haven’t dated in 14 years), and figure out how to live by myself. I want a child. I want to be married. I used most of my savings re-doing the “houseâ€. I am almost too old to have a child on my own. I do not have the cash to adopt.
I understand that he would be a “stand up guy†because he didn’t cheat.
Basically it took him 14 years to figure out that I was not the one?
Obviously, I blame myself for not pushing the issue of marriage (I didn’t because I wanted to be in a better financial position going into the marriage–until very recently that wasn’t possible). Honestly, we were happy (or so I thought). Every day I told him that I loved him and every day he answered back. I wanted him to be sure how I felt about him and wanted to be sure that he felt the same about me.
I am seeing a therapist. I am finding it impossible to forget about him and the pain is almost unbearable.
I guess he’s still a “stand up guy†because he didn’t cheat. Honestly, that really doesn’t help the hurt at all…
Someone want to tell me how to move on? Yes, he has. You’re right. He actually stopped thinking about me the day he broke up with me. I meant absolutely nothing to this guy after 14 years.
Elisa–I’d take him back in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, this left me devastated. I’m trying not to ruminate. It’s almost impossible not to wallow. I wish I was as strong as you, I’m not. It’s all easier said than done. You tell me how you would proceed. In detail…tell me exactly how to move on.
My ex did the same things as Kim2 posted…. how could a person NOT think anything other than this guy was complete a$$. My point is that you still worry about how he will treat the next person!!
Maybe he is incapable of having a normal relationship and he has made that clear with you. You’re still trying to analyze him – predicting his future behavior based on your experience with him. Stil projecting yourself into his relationships. It’s not right for any of us to think a person can’t change.. can you imagine reading a post someone wrote saying that YOU could never change? I think we don’t want to believe they can change because we know it won’t be for US.
These men we are obsessing about are not right for any of us…but yet we still think they aren’t right for anyone. He S##T on me so that means he will do that to everyone else.
Even so, the bottom line is that he stops doing it to us!! We stop accepting their poor behavior.
Elisa you’re bang on with that!! (I think we don’t want to believe they can change because we know it won’t be for US.) I guess we all want to be that special woman and we all will be with the right man.
Tina – I feel for you. What a horrible thing to have happen after 14 years with you to just end it like cutting off a limb.
Tina
This is my explanation of how I managed to move on after 5 friggin years. It is easier said than done and I am not saying it won’t be hard. But how can anyone function from a place of misery and expect things to change?
What worked for me was finally realizing – after having the rejection door slammed in my face for the 100th time – that no matter what I did, how I acted, how I looked, dressed, etc., nothing was ever going to make him look at or treat me differently. Believe me, I begged, made promises, apologized over and over for making him upset, texted, called (never with any response from him of course) and on the inside I could hear myself screaming STOP IT!!
What I just typed above I said to a group of friends one night while they were listening to me rant (yet again) about this guy. Every one of them laughed and called me his personal doormat. “Have you lost your marbles? This guy doesn’t give a damn about you, and he damn well knows you don’t respect yourself!!” was the quote that came from my best friend.
A complete stranger sitting at the table next to us, leaned over to me and said, “YOU LOOK DESPERATE.” At first I was offended but in reality I knew he was right. It showed on my face, in my personality, etc. All I had been doing was bitch, bitch, bitch..complain, complain, complain and I managed to alienate quite a few people.
I immediately deleted this guy’s number, email any other information I had stored in my phone. Called my cell phone provider the next day, put a block on my phone so that I could not receive/send any text messages or calls to/from his number.
I had a good long cry, screamed, shouted, and even tried that letter writing technique where you vent but never actually send the letter to that person. After that, I made it point to give myself 1 week to feel sorry for myself and that would be it. I made friends tell me to shut up whenever I started to talk about this guy or say negative things about myself. I started thinking about all the times he stood me up for his friends, little things he never delivered on, and the countless number of “breaks” or “I need my space” times he had to have. And I realized that this “creep” used me – he used me when it suited him. He dumped me when it suited him; he came around when it suited him. Then I admitted that I allowed it to happen because I thought I needed him; when I really needed to have my head examined. Once I admitted that I allowed it to happen, I knew I had to stop it in the future.
I admit I thought about him moving on with another woman, and that tore me up inside. But what I did not know, I was no going to allow it to let affect me. That was the hardest part but in time, it worked. TIME and EFFORT is what does it – it takes TIME to heal whenever you invest your heart in something that does not work. It takes EFFORT not to get caught up in the same situation again.
When a complete stranger noticed behavior from me, that I couldn’t notice myself, that’s when I knew it was time to cut my losses.
Elisa, I’m not “worried” or analyzing or predicting. I’m stating fact (an by no means is it a projection) based on what he himself has told me which is he isn’t capapble and as a matter of fact he said with “anyone” He has told me “I love you but I DON’T KNOW HOW TO HANDLE LOVING SOMEONE and I believe that is true because it would be so much easier for him to say to me..look its just not working, I’m not feeling it, lets be done! He has never said that instead he says I do but. In addition to that..after the last break up which by the way only last about 2-3 days only for him to reach out to me again, he said “it must be something because we keep getting back together” Well, yeah, we did but only because I was addicted to the drama filled relationship and because of MY own *daddy* issues… I agree with Finallyoverit..there are women out there with the same problem, its not just men. What I have realized is I’m addicted to the drama, I have commitment issues as well and I need to fix me…what happens after me I can’t and DONT concern myself with. Don’t confuse my statements as worry about his future or projection.
I like the thought of a stranger telling me…I think that would nudge me.
Sadly, I am ready to lose my friends. It’s too hard having them around. They are a constant reminder of him.
Also,unfortunately for me. We didn’t have a “break’. I knew that this was the wrong thread. But this was the only one that was active.
I just needed someone to give me “something”. Myself, I’m at a loss as to how to proceed.
Trying
My ex never TOLD me it wasn’t working, but he damn sure SHOWED me it wasn’t but I refused to believe it. Once again, it’s back on US to make the change if we want a better life for ourself, with or without a man.
I agree with you on that point..it is up to us. 😉
Tina
What? Because he didn’t cheat while he was with you makes him a “stand up” guy? Maybe not the physical part but he invested his emotions in someone else (instead of you). You will never know how long he thought about this other person, but after 2 months he’s with her? He cheated, yes he did. He cheated you!!
I agree 14 years is a long time and I think seeing a therapist is a good idea. I can say you will get through this, but it will be at your own speed. These friends should be aware that you are hurting – have you explained to them that you are uncomfortable hearing about this man now that you are not with him? They may not be aware how much pain this is causing you.
You have something already… you have yourself. You were strong when you met him, you will be strong while you are dealing with this, and you will be even stronger without him.
Elisa, your statement : he won’t change for YOU is correct. Some won’t change for anybody. Some “milder” cases may change.
Every guy has a different personality. Take yours for example, he used you over and over and over, break up, back together, blow hot/cold and so on. Mine was also a User.
A User does not only use women, he uses and abuses EVERYBODY and EVERYTHING. Mine used to drink and drive, park in handicapped, take old stuff back to the store, always trying to get something free, like a meal in a restaurant by complaining about the food etc. These type of people don’t see anything wrong with themselves and don’t see a need to change.
Never thought about if he would change for the next woman, actually the next victim, and that doesn’t even matter, he has no morals or empathy for anybody else, totally self absorbed and is toxic for anybody he comes in contact with.
It is up to us to stay away from these people and not trying to figure them out, hoping he would come back and please Ladies, don’t be his DOORMAT.
The statements that he never said “it is not working”, how the he** would he know if it is not working, he has no clue what a relationship means, as long as all his needs are met he is perfectly fine.
Astelle
I agree that there are just some people out there that really don’t care how they treat others. For them, the world should be at their beck and call at all times. They believe they are not responsible for anything they do, and any problems they encounter are the result of something someone did to THEM. My ex was like that but I didn’t realize it until afterwards. BUT, I still allowed him to get away with that behavior. Maybe one day a woman will come along that will knock him on his a$$ (literally) and he may decide to grow up. I’m just not waiting for that to happen. It’s kind of like waiting for hell to freeze over….
Elisa, didn’t you say in an earlier post that men will change for the better when they meet the right woman….?
Finally
Yes, I did say that.. they will change when they want to.
That’s the key. Men will change when they want to, but not a moment before, no matter how much we do. It’s the same with us. We change when WE want to as well.
Elisa, look at your last response to me, do you really believe yours will change for the right woman? A User uses and that is all they do!
Thanks Astelle, I agree 100%! Once a user always a user……..
I know I don’t like thinking about my ex EUM with someone else…but I don’t think any of us can predict how they will behave…chances are they will treat them the same way they treated us, but I also agree with Nikki…they will change when they want to change, but not a minute sooner…so if they change with the next woman and decide to have a puesdo-normal relationship with her, well that’s their decision…it’s time for US to focus on our life, healing and learning to have the healthiest, emotionally available (ourselves and the men) relationships that we can. Our focus needs to be on living our life to the fullest…time goes by so quickly and I have already wasted too much time trying to figure out these dumbasses! We have to believe in ourselves, what we deserve and wanting men who want us and treat us well and have both feet in the relationship. Good luck to all of us!
Tina, I feel for you…you need time to heal…and try to focus on how wonderful you are and that sometime in the future you will be with someone who values and appreciates you. The one thing I did not hear in your story was how much he loved, adored and cherished you. It sounds like you loved him more, put more into the relationship. He moved on way before he broke up with you. Try to focus on the fact that although you were together for so many years, you weren’t a match. Take a look at the Breakup Buddy book, by Greg Berenht…it’s comforting and helps you get through a breakup.
Good luck!
Ladies, let me tell you something about change:
These men do change when they’re good and ready but if they don’t change because of themselves and a desire to be a better person because of the positive effects on their lives and those around them such as a child or partner, this change will not be ongoing. If you change for a person, the likelihood is that because that the change will be shortlived, at the most medium term. When they slip back into bad habits, they’ll say it’s because the person they changed for isn’t what they want or expected.
Many of you are experiencing change because these men and their crappy relationships serves as epiphanys. You’re not changing for them – you’re changing for you – if you don’t, you will go out with variations of the same men in different packages giving you the same type of relationship.
Im sorry but these men do NOT change so for anyone torturing themselves thinking their EUM will change for the next women STOP!! these men dont change because they will never think they need too, they are quite happy the way they are and perfectly happy with themselves and if ever challenged about their shitty behaviour will deny, blame something/someone else -they will never see or accept the way they really are, my EUM was married for 4 years to a women he proposed to after a week of meeting her he was apparentely so in love – did he treat her properly/have a good marriage?? – of course not, they are now divorced & I found out he cheated on her & she moved to another city to get away from him!! – he treated her the same way he treated me & he will treat the next women exactly the same!! I feel so stupid because my EUM exhibited all his awful personality traits whan I met him – but I made excuses for his behaviour & actually kidded myself into thinking he was like the way he was because of his messy divorce and he had been hurt (yeah right!!) I thought the love of a good women could change him & spent the next 2 years hopelessly trying to love someone who didnt give a damn, let me tell you – he didnt change at all – but I did!! I went from being a happy out-going confident women to an insecure, anxiety ridden nervous wreck & I lost all self respect for myself, I let him lie to me (constantly) be verbally abusive, manipulate me, cheat on me and treat me with no respect whatsover, he finished with me over and over and then when he felt like it would come back & I would just take him!! and as ive said in a previous post – it then just got worse as like Astelle said there were no boundries whatsoever!! he was just treating me like dirt as I was letting him!! I feel so sad that I put up with this, think I also mentioned I was reduced to taking anxiety tablets, sleeping tablets & my doctor also suggested counselling – and my EUM never gave a damn about all this and the effect his absurd behaviour and treatment was having on me – I had to go to hospital twice in the last 6 months I was with him – I had treatment for pre-cancerous cells in my cervix and endometriosis (I just got unlucky with that!!) – I was a mess – but did he care, look after me, try & not be as abusive?? – NO not even whilst I was lying in bed unable to go to the bathroom by myself after keyhole surgery!! – he verbally abused me & then left me to go out!! came in drunk and I found other womens numbers on his phone!!! god Im sorry to have to write all this – I just need to keep reminding myself of the harsh reality!! – point is though do you think a man like this will change?? or is even capable??- I dont think so, not for his ex wife, me or the next person, they are so sick, selfish & devoid of emathy they dont even question themselves, bigger point is though, they might not change but we can!! and for the better I will never let anyone treat me like this ever again and its like gaynor said there are more important issues/people in our lifes, we need to let these men go and leave them to it – by the way my EUM is still trying to contact me, he dosent apologise for his awful behaviour though or even ask how I am, just texts to say he his thinking about me & then always has a moan about his life/business/money – him,him, him!!! and whereas in the past I have read these messages to think he is missing me/still loves me (deluded I know!!) I now know they are just a selfish ploy to stop me getting on with my life (control) and to massage his huge ego!! in his head if I reply – I am still there & he has still got me!! not anymore!! keep reading this wonderful site ladies, any books you can on narcissim/commitmentphobic men & get out there & start living your life!! no contact for me for over 2 weeks now & im off all the medication I was taking & determind to start 2009 with a much different/smarter attitude!! xxx
ps Astelle – I love your posts, they are just bang on!! maybe we are both at the angry stage!! but I too think these people are toxic emotional vampires who use everyone!! my ex eum befriended an old divorced lady & managed to get her to invest in his business – he just uses everyone & hasnt got one moral bone in his body – why oh why did I stay?? – or even go there in the first place?? these are the issues im now working on and it feels good to finally be angry at him instead of being a doormat!!!
ps Astelle – I love your posts, they are just bang on!!
nevergoingbackthere – I relate to what you said about thinking that your ex-EUM was wounded and hurt from his first relationship and that you “thought the love of a good women could change him & spent the next 2 years hopelessly trying to love someone who didnt give a damn, let me tell you – he didnt change at all.” I think I could have written the same post. The part that makes it a slow healing process for me is that I did invest over 2 years loving this man (who obviously wasn’t worth it) so it will take time to heal from it. I should have listened to my friends and family who told me time and again to dump this guy who was making me miserable, but I thought I knew better…I thought I saw in him a good heart and he was just wounded…NO…I WAS JUST DELUDED!
nevergoingbackthere – I relate to what you said about thinking that your ex-EUM was wounded and hurt from his first relationship and that you “thought the love of a good women could change him & spent the next 2 years hopelessly trying to love someone who didnt give a damn, let me tell you – he didnt change at all.” I think I could have written the same post. The part that makes it a slow healing process for me is that I did invest over 2 years loving this man (who obviously wasn’t worth it) so it will take time to heal from it. I should have listened to my friends and family who told me time and again to dump this guy who was making me miserable, but I thought I knew better…I thought I saw in him a good heart and he was just wounded…NO…I WAS JUST DELUDED! But, instead of focusing on how deluded I was, I’m going to focus on the good…how far I’ve come, and how clearly I can see now how he was not relationship material and how I tried to make what we had into a relationship and it never was…it was fun when we were together (as long as it suited him) and a great shag (when he wanted to see me), laughs and going alot of places together and traveling (of course I offered to pay for some of the vacations – I had and made more money). Looking back, I was not seeing clearly in the way I saw things. I wanted this relationship sooooooooo badly that I saw things through rose colored lenses…until reality would set in and I would feel miserable when he didn’t call when he should have, didn’t have the same urgency to see me…didn’t tell me he loved me, never met my family, wouldn’t do things that I wanted to do just to make me happy unless it was what he wanted…I could go on and on, but I made excuses for him, over and over for 2 years. NOW, instead of beating myself up for the 2 years of bad judgement, I’m going to feel proud, that I did have the epiphany Natalie talks about and I got away…NC for over 2 months…haven’t seen him in over 3 months…and a new outlook on life. I’m worthy of a great love, and I’m not settling for anything less. I also have to know that I have to be able to open up to someone and love them too…I know in time that will become easier. I’m ASSCLOWN FREE for now!
nevergoingbackthere – I relate to what you said about thinking that your ex-EUM was wounded and hurt from his first relationship and that you “thought the love of a good women could change him & spent the next 2 years hopelessly trying to love someone who didnt give a damn, let me tell you – he didnt change at all.” I think I could have written the same post. The part that makes it a slow healing process for me is that I did invest over 2 years loving this man (who obviously wasn’t worth it) so it will take time to heal from it. I should have listened to my friends and family who told me time and again to dump this guy who was making me miserable, but I thought I knew better…I thought I saw in him a good heart and he was just wounded…NO…I WAS JUST DELUDED! But, instead of focusing on how deluded I was, I’m going to focus on the good…how far I’ve come, and how clearly I can see now how he was not relationship material and how I tried to make what we had into a relationship and it never was…it was fun when we were together (as long as it suited him) and a great shag (when he wanted to see me), laughs and going alot of places together and traveling (of course I offered to pay for some of the vacations – I had and made more money). Looking back, I was not seeing clearly in the way I saw things. I wanted this relationship sooooooooo badly that I saw things through rose colored lenses…until reality would set in and I would feel miserable when he didn’t call when he should have, didn’t have the same urgency to see me…didn’t tell me he loved me, never met my family, wouldn’t do things that I wanted to do just to make me happy unless it was what he wanted…I could go on and on, but I made excuses for him, over and over for 2 years. NOW, instead of beating myself up for the 2 years of bad judgement, I’m going to feel proud, that I did have the epiphany Natalie talks about and I got away…NC for over 2 months…haven’t seen him in over 3 months…and a new outlook on life. I’m worthy of a great love, and I’m not settling for anything less. I also have to know that I have to be able to open up to someone and love them too…I know in time that will become easier. I’m ASSCLOWN FREE now and forever!!!!
sorry about the 3 posts…the computer was glichy!!!
Nevergoingbackthere, I am not at the angry stage, I have been over this for a while. NML adviced me almost a year ago, I have read
all her posts, her book is fantastic. I love this website and I will continue on reading and learning and I hope that with my comments I can help other women.
I think you are right on about Narcissist, that is a Personality Disorder not a character flaw, throw in the Alcohol and you don’t know what they may do. You should not answer him and be careful, I have read over and over that these type of people don’t take no for an answer. I live in a quiet neighborhood, last house on the street, my friends still remind me once in a while to watch my surroundings, they are afraid he may show up at my house one day – drunk of course.
NML is right, change may be just shortlived, before we hooked back up he claimed he stopped drinking and is working out, on Date 2 he was already drinking – he never stopped drinking.
The Abuser doesn’t change, it is the victim that changes!
I don’t care for Greg Behrendt’s book, he is not that into you, is a book to give to a Teenager. He also was a writer for Sex and the City, I watched that movie over Thanksgiving, total BS.
I never followed the TV series, can’t stand to look at Jessica Parker.
Here is the kicker, 1.5 years ago I would have felt, aww how sweet, they got married at the end, what a happy ending. Now I am asking why did she not tell him to beat it! 🙂
I like the actor when he played on Law & Order. 🙂
Astelle the other thing I learned about my EUM is what is change? He told me all sorts of things about him and behaved a certain way, suddenly he was this monster at the end and made comments that just were totally uncharacteristic… or were they? He was a salesman, both in real life and in his dating life. My counsellor called that the first day she met me she said “what does he do for a living is he in sales by any chance?” He used to tell me stories of things he would tell clients to close a deal that were not immoral but just sleazy how he had to lie all day.
So what is change? Did he become a jerk at the end? Is that who he really was and Mr. I’m so positive about life was just an act for me… Part of the pain but also the relief is I really have no idea who this man ever was.
No, he did not just turn into a jerk, he is what he is, you just ignored the red flags like we all did. We looked at them thru Lover’s eyes and stuck around too long.
I truly believe that these type of people do not just treat women bad, they are little shits in day to day life. They make lousy partners, lousy friends, lousy parents, lousy co-workers…..
I was recommending the Break up Buddy, not He’s not into you…just to help get over a breakup…so unless you read that one, then you can’t really critique it.
finally, sorry I wasn’t critizing the book, I just don’t care for Greg Behrendt and his books. Break up Buddy may help for a break up of a “normal” relationship but not for anything more complex.
Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback girl is the best that I have read, it is very important to understand these type of personalities and yourself as well in order to learn.
Finally – I cannot wait to be at the 2 month mark!! although its only been 2 weeks I am confident this time as I had the epiphany too!! I woke up on the monday morning and had a hospital appointment (he knew this) and when i switched on my phone he had sent me messages in the night saying the same things he had said a hundred times before – ‘he couldnt be with me, needed space, I am too demanding, I expect too much, we are over etc etc etc’ (even though he had spent the previous week contacting me telling me he couldnt stop thinking about me/misses me etc) his texts were just to hurt me, bring me down & control me as he knew I would be feeling sensitive anyway and dreading hospital (he really is this spiteful) usually my reaction would be despair – my stomach would of lurched & I would of gone straight into panic mode, crying,calling him etc (ive probably even begged in the past) instead I felt nothing apart from knowing in my head I that I couldnt do this for a minute longer, I decided right there & then to get off the rollercoaster – for good, I looked in the mirror & just saw sad stressed eyes, drained & worn down with everything – that was 2 weeks ago & I havent looked back – & even when a friend mentioned she saw him out – with another girl of course!! I still felt nothing, roll on the new year – I never want to see her speak to him ever again!
Finally – really can recommend the book – ‘men who cant love – how to recognize a commiymentphobic man before he breaks your heart’ it really is a fantastic read & you really realise that there is nothing you can do (apart from realising this a lot sooner in the future) I am going to read mr unavailable & the fallback girl too!! I think the more reading the better!! Im also finding writing these posts really help!!
p.s my EUM was a lawyer!! – it couldnt of suited him more, he could lie to your face & not bat an eyelid – even when confronted with evidence, he could twist any row back on to me & even accused me of saying/doing things I hadnt said or done!! he was highly manipulative – it was scary!
Astelle, thanks for your comment…I totally agree with you…NMLs books are the best for the EUM relationships…the lady I was recommending the Break up Buddy was Tina who was trying to get over a 15 yr relationship, that didn’t sound to me like a classic EUM and she wanted advice on how to move on in general and his book is good for that.
Astelle, reading your posts, you are right on too…you sound like MINI ME (a mini-NML)!!!
Thanks!!! finallyseenthelight
nevergoingback..stay strong, you will get through this and it does get easier…it’s a long road, but one step at a time and you will get there…we’ll be here to support you!
Nevergoingback, it is very important right now that you don’t respond to him, he went from txt ” I miss you, thinking about you” to ” I need space, it os over, blah, blah, blah”
He is trying to get a response out of you – ANY kind of response – I am wondering what he will txt next, probably going back to “I miss you” crap.
Like I mentioned earlier, watch your surroundings, if he has narcisstic tendencies than he may get stupid, because he is not USED to you acting “this way”. Does he drink?
You need to get Natalie’s book today, have you downloaded it yet??
Do all the excerices as well. I remember the 1st time I did the exercises and I lied to myself with my answers, had a good laugh and re-did them all with honesty. 🙂
Finally, I agree, Tina’s guy doesn’t sound EUM, it is hard for her after 15 years relationship and it is easier for the person that ended it.
I feel that phone/email counseling with Natalie may benefit her to find a way to get over this.
I ended my 18 year old marriage – after wasting time to get him to do marriage counseling. Shortly after the 9/11 attacks, I told him to get out, I realized that life is too short to live miserable.
I felt a little bit sorry for myself because I left my home country for him, but I have 2 great kids (Teenagers).
Then I met the next assclown, 🙂 I am over it and I am at a good place, I am more open, paying more attention to people and to everything in day to day life.
Hi all….i have posted before but I think it must be an old thread!
I am currently on day 8 of NC after a 6 year on/off thing with an EUM. I am finding it very difficult and am definitely looking for grey areas…an excuse to make contact again really. This sounds really stupid but I am wondering now whether he might have some form of Asperger’s Syndrome. His son is autistic and one of his daughters seems to display some traits..struggles in social situations and has difficulty making friends etc. Anyway, the EUM just cannot talk about emotions, he panics and disappears. He doesn’t seem to be able to empathise fully and reacts with shock when I tell him that he hurts me. He is a very difficult man, extremely intelligent and in some ways very sensitive, but the more I read about Asperger’s the more I can relate it to him. He also has low self esteem, amongst other thing he says he says adults returning to education is stupid…even though I am a mature degree student. The Asperger’s thing is making me feel guilty, that I have expected behaviour/commitment from him that he simply cannot deliver. I told him last week that I had just stopped feeling anything, like a light had gone out. In my last email to him i told him that I loved him, that i knew he was a good person but his ‘up-and-down-ness’ made me numb and I just wasn’t willing to put up with it any more. His first reply was very angry…said that I appalled him and that I had cheapened his ‘genuine’ feelings for me…but then i got a calmer response, that it wasn’t what he wanted but he would stay out of my life, and that I deserved to have a happy life. He has never told me he loves me, appears very selfish, self-conscious and self-absorbed….but now I can’t stop thinking that he just can’t help it. Does this seem feasible or am I desperately seeking a grey area then I don’t have to face up to this being over?
Finding this site has made me stronger, reading all your stories makes me feel like part of a group and not so lonely. I can’t talk to my friends because I can’t explain the situaation. It has been so on and off and we are both in other relationships…I know this sounds awful but it’s just how it is. I have felt years of guilt.
I would appreciate any thoughts, it’s so hard. Charlie x
Charlie, before I comment on this, would you mind to tell me what you mean by ” It has been so on and off and we are both in other relationships…I know this sounds awful but it’s just how it is.”
Hi Astelle….it’s a loooong story! I have been with my partner for 12 years, he has been with his for 14 years. We met 6 years ago, neither of us having been ‘unfaithful’ before. We were friends for a while and then became more involved….but even then rarely met up and relied mostly on emails and chatting on MSN. Because of the guilt I have experienced and his emotional unavailability we have been on and off for years. There have been stretches of months where we haven’t seen each other because I just couldn’t bare the guilt and fear. We both have children and from my point of view I just wish I had never met him because my life was simple and normal before. My partner is a good man, a good father…but I can’t seem to settle and leave the EUM completely.
I know its wrong, I hope there will be no judgements made.
Sorry, I have reread and parts don’t make much sense! I met the EUM 6 years ago.
Ouch, I would not be the person to advice on this – not judging, people can do what they want – I just can’t understand why you are worried about a man that is in a relationship and you are in a relationship? Maybe work on making your relationship with your partner and father of your kids better?
Let’s say you would leave your current partner for this EUM, you would be on the road to hell.
But, tell me what the real issue is, is this EUM just something to do for you, maybe trying to fix him? Do you want a life with this EUM?
He is not able to do this right now with the partner he has.
Also, if you don’t mind me asking, is this just an e-mail relationship?
Are you guys meeting, sexually involved?
AMEN!
Never,
What a sadistic, narcissistic creep!
Stay strong!
Charlie,
I think you’re making excuses (medical conditions) for this guys behavior.
Why in the world would you be willing to jeopardize a good relationship with the father of your children for this loser????
Gaynor, I know it may sound weird, but I think she is making excuses for herself not him.
Hi Astelle,
Ok, I’ll go along with that.
Hi Astelle – yes i have downloaded the book tonight – think I will be reading late into the night this evening!! My EUM did drink -heavily but never admit to having a problem despite becoming increasingly abusive & uncontrolllable when drunk – I stopped going out with him socially altogther in the end his moods became that unmangeable -since our split ive had numerous drunken phonecalls in the night – I even had to go out & find him one night as he had got in to such a mess he collapsed in the street – did not get any thanks for rescueing him though -oh and you dont have to wonder what he will text next – been having a pizza night in with one of my housemates tonight and got a text from – asking if I would liketo go for sunday lunch with him & his mother tomorrow as she is staying for a few days ………………………………this is simply madness on another level, Ive been nc with him for nearly 2 weeks! why the hell would I want to go over & have lunch with him & the mother who ive never met after all the ‘I cannot be in a relationship with you & it is over’ and worse the abusive messages where I a b*tch who has used him for the last 2 years!!! ?? what goes through his mind?? is he for real?? I ignored the text and still maintaining NC!!x
Never,
He’s just trying to get any kind of response. Pathetic, isn’t he!
Gaynor, just how I feel, can’t really explain it. 🙂
Nevergoingbackthere, Ugh, I believe you are dealing with a Narcissist, now you are supposed to meet his Mom?
What goes thru his mind? Are you kidding me?? 🙂
Is he for real?? Are you kidding me??? 🙂
He drinks heavily – I call them alcoholics – confirms to me again that he will not go away that easy. Don’t be flattered, who wants to pick up a drunk in the street.
Here is your chance to cut him off completly -take it.
You know, until I met my jerk I had no clue about alcoholics, I drink, I am German and Germans drink like fish, socially:) but I had to educate myself about alcoholics and that is why my friends are afraid that he may show up at my house drunk and cause problems.
I am a grown woman and had no idea that drinking can change your personality, I am just familiar with hangovers once in a while. 🙂
You know what, if you make it just thru the next 4-6 weeks you could be fine. Finish the book and do the exercises, this could be the best therapy for you.
I logged out and can’t remember my password…not sure whether this will post.
I have just written a long post…but I have deleted it because it sounds self-pitying. I think maybe this is the wrong place for me to post. I have my own issues/past that play a part in this situation but ultimately of course I am doing something wrong. Thanks for replies so far but I’ll leave it there, maybe I need to do the unsent letter thing rather than inviting comments on something that I cannot explain/understand/justify.
Astelle – I have no idea why you think I am making excuses for myself? That makes no sense to me. I have been too focused on him definitely…trying to work him out, understand his behaviour…but I do not see how my doing doing this is making excuses for myself. It must seem crazy that I have a good man but I choose to focus on a man who treats me badly…but i guess we all have our own baggage, this isn’t all about the man.
Charlie,
I don’t know what kind of feedback you were expecting?? I hope you change your situation for the sake of your children, partner and yourself.
Charlie, don’t be discouraged to post, we all have have our own issues, so this is not the wrong place to post. Just because I may not be of much help, other people will. Please, don’t take my opinion as the gospel, it is just my opinion and how I feel, I am not speaking for anybody else.
Invite the comments, post your long post, you want and need to feel better, that is what brought you here.
If my comments offended you, I apologize.
Charlie, reason that I said you are making excuses for yourself:
You are in a relationship (married?) with somebody and you have kids, why not put your energy in this relationship and your kids instead of this EUM?
Your focus is on this man, but it should be on your kids and your partner – if you are not happy with your partner why don’t you get out? – Rather than cheating emotionally on him, that is all I am saying.
Astelle,
You have no reason to apologize.
Cheating is a destructive and very selfish act. There is never, ever a reason to cheat on a partner. If you are unhappy, then get out!
Saying that one has emotional “baggage” seems to be an excuse to cheat on a loved one in this case.
Ok, I promised myself I wouldn’t continue on this thread…but I feel that I need to put my point of view across. I know that it is wrong to cheat, I never have before. At first I struggled terribly with the guilt, suffered a bout of anxiety and depression and broke contact. Over the years I suppose I have kind of normalised it…it’s maybe a coping mechanism. This is mainly an emotional connection, physically there has been some contact but only 4 times in 6 years and it has never ticked the boxes for me…it’s the emotional connection I crave, not the sexual connection.
I am not using my ‘baggage’ as an excuse…I obviously won’t go into on here now though because it has already been suggested that I am using it as an excuse or to validate my behaviour. Gaynor I hadn’t really thought about what sort of feedback I expected…i just needed to talk. I have cut contact with this man for the umpteenth time, my reasons being the emotional damage, the kids, the partners….I am not a robot..far from it. For some reason I have not been able to get out of the cycle. He contacts me, I respond, he blows hot, I get carried along, he starts to blow cold, I cannot believe he’s done it again, I get hurt and we go around 6 months without contact…then he contacts me again.
Just because I am in a relationship does not mean that I am not as vulnerable as those who aren’t. I find it very difficult to accept genuine love and real emotional intimacy, I have fear of abandonment…my involvement with this EUM means that I am somehow safe…even though he hurts me. It is not clear cut, even though the black and white of it is that I am doing something awful, risking my family’s wellbeing.
Charlie33, I have just read through your comments after seeing your most recent one. I don’t want you to feel that you can’t comment and it may be that this is not the best thread for that if you find the feedback difficult because the post is about looking for shades of grey so of course, people are bound to point out when you make those shades.
It’s not for anyone to judge you and I don’t think anyone is but I think that what you are writing brings a number of conflicts and confusions.
It is clear you are vulnerable, hurt, and trying to make sense of what you are doing and who you are. What I will say to you is your last paragraph in particular makes sense of what you are doing but in knowing that you are doing this, it does put you in the position of doing something about the situation rather than sinking into it and being resigned.
I don’t think that there is one person here who doesn’t empathise with feeling emotionally confused, being scared, and the many fears that you no doubt go through. The difficulty is that words do come across differently and so people being straight forward with you may seem harsh.
That said, this isn’t the type of place where you can get shades of grey from the readers too so what you have to ask yourself before you comment is whether you are willing to see what is happening in a more real light rather than deny it or ignore it, because if you’re not, it is better to wait till you are ready, or feel the fear of reading other opinions but go ahead and keep commenting.
I will always be compassionate and understanding but I don’t do BS – it would be wrong of me to tell you that how you’re being treated and what you are engaging in is ok. It would also be wrong of me to say ‘Charlie33, eff it, you’re scared, you have issues. Keep doing your thing and don’t deal with it.’ I really feel for you and I hope that you can figure this out. Good luck x
Thank you NML. I do want honest opinions, I have spent 6 years trying to find the shades of grey, trying to justify myself, justify the EUM. I haven’t sought advice because I know that the really vulnerable people in this situations are the ones who are unaware of it, and because of this I felt that I didn’t deserve to be listened to in a way when I am the one in the wrong.
I am desperate to get out of this situation…for the first time I genuinely want it to be over…but I am scared that when it IS over, that I will start to focus on my ‘real’ relationship, which means I will have to deal with my ‘stuff’..build up my self esteem etc. For the first time I broke contact with the EUM without any anger, told him that I had just stopped feeling and I have now blocked his email address etc. I am dealing with it. This site has been amazing…it has been the catalyst for me ending it, it gave me the strength to make that break….I guess my first post on here was me trying to justify his behaviour.
When he is around I let everything else slide, my parenting, my relationship, my uni work, housework, routine..basically my grasp on reality. It’s like I get obsessed and then when it falls apart again I am left with a sense of shame, guilt and embarrassment. I cannot do it any more. I do love my partner, he doesn’t deserve this..I don’t deserve this!! I need support of those who understand…I really don’t want to be judged because I am my own biggest critic.
Thank you so much for the replies, I have taken every single one on board and the ones which stung are the ones which have galvanised my decision to end this for good. Thank you ladies and NML this site is like a wake up call! x
Hi Charlie 33– I have posted a few times where I found myself feeling defensive. I think part of the reason people join this site is that they are looking to find out that it’s not their fault, and to justify what they are doing. I made a lot of mistakes with my EUM actually to the extent that I questioned if he was EUM because I realized I was clingy and controlling and wondered if he was actually “normal” and it was just me being paranoid of abandonment that caused me to destroy the relationship.
The thing I learned in talking with certain people on here is they were not there during your relationship. It’s important to be self honest, but you cannot take the entire blame. My best friend always reminds me your part of the blame in a relationship is somewhere between 10 and 90, no one takes 100%. So, the point is part of putting it out here on the table is that some of these women (and men) may be blunt about what you are doing. At first it sucks because what you really want is for someone to say this is not your fault, it’s all this man and his issues. But this isn’t a “it’s not you it’s me situation” it’s “it’s not you it’s us.” This is about 2 people creating a toxic situation.
from what I can see from your thread, the fact that you and your (we’ll call him) EUM are with each other, but not fully functional but meanwhile in other relationships clearly indicates that nothing is normal about this. You cannot focus on one relationship if you have another in your life that similarly requires effort and then there is the relationship with yourself that seems to be suffering the most. Relationships are tough work, so having 2 only complicates matters further and means you are dividing your positive energy between too many people.
The first question is what are you doing involved in multiple relationships? By having the one it means you don’t have to focus on the other, and most importantly all the drama means you don’t have to focus on you.
Most of all though, THIS DOES NOT MAKE YOU A BAD PERSON. I got defensive because it really hurt to hear that I had issues that had contributed to the demise of my relationship. But in the end, you need to be strong and face that if you are going to fix it because the alternative is continuing to be anxious and miserable in toxic relationships.
I hope you feel better and comfortable to continue posting here.
Thank you Dazed…I really appreciate your comments, they make sense to me!
I have spent a huge amount of time totally focusing on this man, who is emotionally unavailable to me, and I think to his partner as well. This is the first time I have really seen it in the context of ‘reality’…that it’s not all about me and him. He has hurt me many times, I have let myself be hurt many times. We do have something which makes us keep revisiting the relationship…we like each other until we get too involved, then the whole thing explodes. We have tried to be friends, often he has said that he would rather us have a meaningful friendship than some sort of cheap affair, but I always end up getting too emotionally involved. He does want the physical side of things, but neither of us can deal with having the friendship AND physical side because for me it feels too much like an ‘affair’ and I can’t handle the guilt, and for him it’s just too much to handle full stop.
I love my partner, he is sensitive, emotionally healthy, a good father and my best friend. I think I am scared to invest fully because by somehow hedging my bets I am staying safe emotionally. He has done nothing wrong, he respects and loves me. I do not feel that I have a hole in my life, I am not lonely I just happen to have met another man who I have feelings for…I have no interest in having a relationship with anyone else.
I thought I was over it, we had 9 months of NC from February to November and although I missed him and he was in my thoughts every day it didn’t hurt any more. But then he contacted me and I couldn’t resist. We didn’t meet up and I decided after a couple of weeks to end it. I was calm about it and there was no drama…he responded angrily initially but then accepted what I said. There has never been any talk of being together properly, he has never said he loves me, he will never discuss emotions and panics when I do. He is full of energy and passion when he first makes contact…this time he was saying he wanted us both to get a tattoo that means something to both of us, that he wants us to spend more time together talking and ‘just holding each other’. He gradually seemed less and less attentive (over the space of a couple of weeks) but swore blind that he had not noticed this…he seemed genuinely shocked that I felt things were ‘weird’ between us. When I confronted him about how I felt he literally told me he had to go because he just couldn’t talk about stuff like that with me and then when I told him I couldn’t do it any more he told me that he had genuine feelings for me and was determined this time to make it work, ‘within our own little bubble’. But I have had enough.
I appreciate that people reading this might be wanting to focus on the fact that I am with somebody else, and none of this should matter..but I really need feedback on this to help me get my head around it and move on. I shouldn’t be doing this, I shouldn’t be worrying about this, but the fact is that I am and I need help.
I don’t know whether he feels anything, whether he has completely used me, whether he is incapable of feeling properly….I just feel like I need to work it all out to enable me to put it in a box and move on.
Sorry for rambling, it just helps so much to write it down and know that it will be read by others. I know it’s all a bit disjointed, I tend to write as I think! Thanks x
I watched the movie Love Actually last night… have any of you seen it? One of the couples in the movie is a man, cheating on his wife with his secretary who actively pursues him knowing he is married. She is young and attractive, the wife is ageing, sees herself as fat, but has been the hard working wife and mother of two for many years. She discovers the affair at the end… my heart broke.
I have been a cheater and the other woman before. When I was younger, being the other woman I did not care, I was selfish felt it wasn’t my problem if someone’s relationship was not going well from which I could benefit. As you get older though you start to learn why relationships flounder at times… even good ones. My parents have gone through tough years, that is what really tests a marriage. It is not supposed to be fun and romance all the time. It is about a partnership.
What the movie reminded me of last night is that women need to be more supportive of women. Jumping in as the other woman when you hear a man say his relationship not going well is just contributing to societies changing ways in which we feel there is always another option. We are making the grass greener when we are the other woman. We are offering excitement, commitment free excitement that is obviously more appealing at times then returning home to your spouse, children, bills and conflict.
I guess the thing that I have awoken to is the fact that at some point I would like to be married, with children, working through those tough times and I would like to think that some, possibly younger, other woman is not going to come along and simply offer my husband an easy way out. Yes, I recognize that this is a man’s choice as well not to cheat but monogamy is hard, we all know this, many studies indicate that settling with one mate is actually contrary to human nature. So ladies, let’s not make it even easier by being willing to let someone have us, without the commitment. let’s be faithful to other’s both men and women and by respecting ourselves, also respect the house that we do not know at home and what they have likely put into to a relationship and let’s not make it easy for their partner to walk away from their problems and simply get what they want.
I just felt it was important to start realizing that we are all responsible for the damage caused.
Dazed,
Great post!!!!
Dazed….that’s a really good post. Definitely food for thought x
This site is saving my life and I ironically just found it less then a week ago. It pushed me to use the NCR. I had been with my assclown for 2 years. During that time although we talked almost everyday and saw eachother many times a week, we went through phases or levels of “commitmentâ€. Some months i would practically live with him and only go home to get more clothes. . .some weeks I would only see him once or twice. I let him consume my entire life and let him emotionaly abuse me and tick away at my self-esteem. When I met him i was severly overweight and he was this confident attractive successful guy I thought really liked me. He told me about 6 months into seeing eachother he could not commit until I lost weight. He said everything was perfect with me. . .I was his bestfriend. . .how beautiful I am. . .blah blah blah. Well guess what? I lost 90lbs. I look HOT now and is he ready? NO! I had discoverd that his EX before me. .who i imagine he was still seeing when we met, ended things with him via the NCR. I tried to apply it many times before when he would act out or dissapoint me and each time I swore I would not go back. But it never worked. I would not answer calls, ignore texts and I even changed my phone number. He would contact my friends to try and get to me, call my work using a fake name, email me that he had changed and so on. A few months ago he told me he met someone else and could not be with me anymore because I reminded him too much of his EX. I thought I was litteraly going to crumble into dust. I was so hurt and angry and he would commit to a stranger and not me after all this time. He called me the very next day and acted like nothing ever happened. He begged me to come and have dinner with him and I went like a fool, because I needed him to need me to want me back. He turned me into the other women for two months when finally I met someone else. I told him and he freaked he kept calling and asking what I want him and I to be what I need from him. I went back again and he took a call from her infront of me! I was livid I went to storm out and he asked me to please come by the next day to “talk†about us. The next day I got a text saying “We don’t need to talk she is my girlfriend and that is that†I was stunned stupidly again. I knew then that the only way to stop him from hurting me was NC. He called the next day and when I didnt answer gave me an ultimateum, that if I did not call him back in one hour and meet with him to “talk†he would never call me again. . .GOOD! I did not call. Two days later the emails started. . .The one that got me was “I have been doing some serious brainstorming .. and realized that you are a great person. Hopefully the person for me. So I broke up with the girl that I was seeing for the past few months because its not fair to anyone for me to be with someone other than the person that I connect with best. So if you still want me to be part of your life then give me a call. if not… i understand†I waited two more days through two more emails inviting me to a black tie event and so on. . .Then I called. . .he was like “OH MY GOD i thought i was never going to see you again. . .I am so happy now. . .I was so effected by you leaving me†I thought he got it he finally saw the light and how much he cared about me. . .WRONG again. On tuesday I picked him up from work. . .we went to his place and I saw a pair of her shoes there! I said I thought you told me it was over with her and you broke it off with her to be with me. his respone “Im not ready to be in a commited relationship with anyone. . .lets take it day by dayâ€. I pathetically let him talk me into staying that night but the next day I found this site and I knew it was over. . .I sent him this on friday “I have been doing some serious brainstorming . . . I made a mistake. I realized that I came back this last time for a reason that you made perfectly clear the other night, no longer exists and I can’t pretend anymore. I really have changed in the past six months and it is no longer acceptable to me to be in a situation where I am relegated to being “the other woman†or some back up girl. You no longer have the luxury of being ambiguous, vague and indecisive with me. I would not be able to be true to the person I am now if I tolerated this. If that is the kind of girl you want in your life you will have to look elsewhere, I am not her. †I have blocked his phone number and all email addresses! It has been two days and I know that it wont always be this hard. I also know it wont always be this easy but I can find comfort in the fact that I took the control back in my life and I rejected him in the end. The ultimate push was fear. I feared being hurt by him over and over again and I don’t think I could have been ok with myself if I was not the one to put an end to it. I stand on this. . . I know him, he is not alone right now. . .that poor girl is stroking his ego as I write this but I dont care. . .that is her problem now because I refuse to be the girl he makes miserable for the rest of her life!
Stephanie – Stay strong…these guys never change. They are USERS and will do anything to NOT commit, yet they can’t commit to breaking up either. Yeah you for losing 90 pounds!!! If you can do that, then you can lose this assclown! All of the ladies on here have been through similar situations and we feel your pain…good luck!
I agree completely with whatever is given in this article but I have to say that I am really sick of myself now.My EUM and I had a really bitter fight about 2 months back so much so that he refused to speak to me,respond to my messages and treated me really badly.I decided to try and forget him then and there and followed NC for quite some time though I found it very difficult to forget him.Then suddenly after 25 days I could not hold on anymore and so I called him.He did speak to me but was quite harsh and said quite a few things that hurt me a lot.At that point I realised the futility of the entire exercise and decided that this man would not be able to give me anything-time,affection or attention.I just moved on with my life and there was another period of NC for about 10 days.Suddenly about 10 days back he called me.Initially I was reluctant to talk to him because this has already happened so many times in the past.But after the initial anger I started talking to him like nothing had ever happened.Now I truly regret it.I don’t know why he does not let me move on…Probably I do not let myself move on.I do not know why despite all the pain he has given me in the past I still continue to entertain him.I am not sure if I like him anymore…But I am not able to ignore his calls.The worst part is now after that conversation I feel like talking to him again and again which I know I shouldn’t be doing cos’ this has only given me much pain in the past.God,is there any way I can put an end to this ordeal?
Brooke
You already know the answer to your ordeal is no contact – absolutely none. Accept that the relationship isn’t working and move on. Ask yourself why would you want to force a man to love you. Be in a relationship with you. Ask yourself how much he values the relationship and then look at how he treats you. Is he worth the lies, disappointment, up’s, down’s? Do you want him THAT bad that you are willing to toss your self-respect out the door? Do you want him at any emotional cost?
It’s tough when you love somebody and they treat you like crap, but you’ve got to start somewhere. My ex-EUM used to engage in shit#y behaviour until I pulled the plug on that one. I changed my number and blocked him EVERYWHERE on my computer/Internet. I did slip up when I accepted a phone call at work from him. As soon as I discovered that there was no apology, down when the phone and the “conversation” was over. (At that time if he had apologised I would have considered friendship in the future, but his behaviour proves that I can NEVER have contact with him – EVER again)
So start and stick with no contact. You can do it Brooke!
It is much easier to hold your head up high when you have ALL of the control. The more you constrict their ability to affect you the more you regain the power. It is day 4 for me and I guess I did not correctly block him from one of my emails because I got this message. . .Even after I sent him the one that reads above in my eairler post. . .”What happened to you. . .You have a lot going on inside you and its best that you take some time to figure out where your head is. I’m not going to plead for you to come back this time because I don’t think that you are emotionally stable enough to be a part of my life. Best of luck to you. I hope everything works out.” It really pissed me off!! I have no intention of contacting him but the fact that he got any words near me makes me angry. The thing is I think the curiosity of it all is the tough part here. I should have never opened the email I should have deleted it and that way deleted any power it could have to make me feel a certain way. I could not believe how dilluted and in denial he was to write those things . . .HELLO wake up you seriously pathetic poor excuse for a man. . .You are the one that is unstable and has issues. . .My only issue was I thought you were worth my time! (This made me think wait . . .maybe he didnt get my message ending it the other day yet. . .maybe I should send it to this email. I wanted him to know I ended it first. I supose he figured that out when he realized his number was blocked and I did not pick up the 5 calls I got yesterday from his office). The honest truth is. . .It doesnt matter as long as it is over. I know now after reading all of your posts that it would just continue the cycle. Ladies just do the best you can to really cut them out of your life. . .instead of not answering the call BLOCK THE NUMBER. . .EMAIL, FACEBOOK. . .ect everything. If they can’t get to you then your feelings become your own. He can not make you feel any certain way anymore, so how you let the situation affect you is all up to you.
Stephanie – I have been down this road so many times!!! even though I moved out of the house I was sharing with my ex eum because I could not take anymore of his compulsive, abusive behaviour I went on to spend a further 3 months going back & forth to him after he would not leave me alone and promised things would be change(it never did, it just got worse & abuse cycle more frequent) its always the same with these men – they dont really want you (not in a normal mature way anyway) but they certainly dont want anyone else to have you – or for you to get on with your life!! so they will try & maintain contact anyway they can, its taken me a very long 3 months to realise that no matter what they say or promise – they just cannot deliver (ever) they cant commit to being with you but they cant quite commit to not being with you either and I found everytime I responded in any way (even angrily telling him not to contact me again) – I would be the one to come off being more upset and it would just push my recovery back even further as ulitmately they always win, the only way you ever will is by ignoring them and getting on with your life (I think most eum are also narcissists & the worst thing for a narcissist is to be ignores!!) I will tell you about when of the last times I was pulled in responding to contact – my ex, called me over a period of 5 days, text to say he needed to talk & that he had even been to my house but I wasent in, I was still down & hurting & trying to ignore him was so hard, I suppose I was curious to and I was still a little deluded thinking ‘maybe this time he has really realised he wants me’ so I took his call eventually and he persuaded me to go and meet him for a drink, when I got there he sat me down and started to tell me how he wanted to make sure I knew it was really over and there was no chance for us ever!!! I was shell shocked – I was the one who walked away from him & he spent a week calling me to tell me this?? he went on to further insult me saying how trapped I had made him feel and how he thought he was always going to be an eternal batchalor as he just couldnt ‘do relationships – and more insulting did I ever really think he would settle down with someone like me!!! – apparentely we could still be friends though!!! I was so floored that I started to cry – i cried my eyes out in a busy bar and he just sat in front of me, cold as ice looking very pleased with himself, I was gutted – like I said he always won, always – I think I was too down to get angry, so i actually just accepted this absurd behaviour then went home & cried myself to sleep – the next day he called me again – left a message saying he had bought chicken for dinner & what time was I going to go over!!!?? that is the madness I was living in, I could go on, his apalling behaviour is endless and I have really had to learn the hard way that No Contact is the only way I am going to get on with my life – im on week 3 now and even though its got back to me that my eum has been out on dates with someone else – he is still trying to contact me!! he even text last Saturday to see if I wanted to go round for Sunday lunch & meet his mum!!??? mad, mad, mad – but Ive got to stay strong as I want to start 2009 off well rid of him, some days are hard – especially with christmas coming up, but everytime I get a bit down and think ‘oh it sucks being alone at christmas’ I have to remind myself – that I was alone when I was with him anway!! keep strong, read the posts, send posts – anything to get you through!!
Stephanie
I can relate to your story. Even though I knew that my ex EUM was a clown, I still cared about him & was willing to invest in the relationship because the begining was good. As soon as he started acting a fool, I knew it was time to bail. He then upped the charm and I actually doubted my judgement about him.
My reasons for slipping on NC, just like you, was curiosity mixed with hope. What was he saying now? That’s why I would take his calls or read the offline messages he would send. I would get “I miss you” texts and the one where he plays the victim: “even thought you don’t love me, I’ll always love you”. These declarations were almost always via email/text. Now that the rose tinted glasses are off, how could anyone pursue a relationship in this fashion? What ever became of a true, in-person apology?
I would listen to his contact only to discover that it was the same old same old of shit#y treatment. Nope, not having that.
Other times, just to get a reaction from me, he would say/write/do something to really pis$ me off and I would retaliate in anger spewing out all the feelings that were bottled up inside me that he refused to ever discuss.
“He loves me.” …. I would get mad and tell him all the horrible things that he did, hoping that he would see the contradiction between what he said and what he did. Nothing happened except my blood pressure went up!
Don’t be suckered in to giving him a response! I love Brak K’s comparsion of EUM’s contact as unwanted, unsolicited human spam. “Delete” all contact with that dude. Do not engage him as this is a “score” for him as he knows you still care and it feeds his ego while delaying your healing. This, I know first hand, is easier said than done.
If you are truly serious of wanting him out of your life, you must stick to NC!
Stephanie, he insulted you with his e-mail, don’t respond, he wants to have the last word to make himself feel better. He is just pi**ed and wants an reaction from you – don’t give it to him or he will tell you more insulting things.
Now that I think about it..every serious conversation my EUM and I have ever had with the exception of maybe 2 at most has been via text. That is the ONLY way this man knows how to communicate. Its sad and pathetic. Even if I tried to call him he wouldn’t answer but he would turn around and send me a text.
Stephanie – Astelle is right…he wants to have the last word and making you think YOU have the problem is just his narcissistic way! Stay strong and keep NC!!
E-mail and txt makes it easier to lie, being on the phone he may be put on the spot and have to answer a question right there and then.!
Brad, human spam, that is too funny, I have to remember that term. 🙂
He did it from the very beginning. He travels and is gone 3 or 4 days out of the week and thats all I ever got was text and just played it off as his being out of town but “at least he is thinking about me”…boy, was I stupid! I did notice though, that when he really wanted to talk to his best friend he wasn’t to busy to call him up and have a chat. The only phone calls I got was when he was driving in the car bored or had to vent about work or to ask me what wine I wanted with dinner. Astelle, you are so right about being put on the spot..he would only answer the ones he wanted to anyway..what a coward way out.
Cynnie – I got suckered into this many times too, sometimes his declarations of love would make me so angry after the way he had treated me that I would text back a huge rant on his dispicable behaviour only to then have him ignore me after I had been trying to go NC & ignore him!! I would then be left upset, confused and hurt and constantly waiting for some sort of response/reaction to the cold hard facts about his abuse – I wouldnt even get so much as an apology! like the true coward he is, he would just disappear again then once he thought I had calmed down ( & he didnt have to take any responsibility for his awful behaviour!!) he would send another lame ‘I miss you’ text!! it really is just a merrygoround, now im thinking alot clearer I also see how if he really did have ANY genuine feelings for me at all – he would do so much more than send a few lame damned texts!!! I also see that it would not matter if I tied him to a chair and forced him to listen to all his wrong doings/mis-treatment of me – he would still be the same, still act the same – nothing would change & you shouldnt even need to do this in the first place!! xx
Nevergoingbackthereagain and Cynnie I feel like your stories could be mine. . .I sort of smile because he is the kind of guy that would always want to be told he is “Special”, that there is no one else out there quite like him. Id love to introdue him to your guys and be like “See you idiots your all sad excuses for men, your all the same, your not special and we have you all figured out.” Thanks for the support girls. . .This site has really just opened up my eyes to his “real” behavoir. He just called me from his work number and left a message saying he wants to take me to dinner. OMG its just a classic example of how unstable and delusional he really is. I mean last night you think I need to get my head together and I should not be in your life and now you want to go to dinner? He’s actually insane! Now i am going to block his work number. The more I shut him out the more validation I give myself, that I am above this crap. I realized as I ignored his call that I was not inlove with him or who he really was. I was inlove with the person he was 10% of the time, 100% of the time. I needed a reality check. . .thank god I found this site. I think its fate.
I just found this website and what perfect timing. I like to think that of the beginning of our relationship as him inviting me into his swimming pool and we are happy and enjoying ourselves then all of a sudden he signals to his friend to add concrete mix as he is getting out of the water. Leaving me stuck and wondering what is going on. So, I am neck deep and can’t move wondering where he is and why we aren’t swimming happily anymore and he is free to do what he wants. Then this place becomes my jackhammer and sets me free and all I have to remember is that whenever he contacts me all he is doing is inviting me back into his cement pond! And he is not gonna trick me again.
yeah got through new year onwards and upwards good luck girls !!! we can do this xxxxxxxxxxxxx
I feel like I have a lot in common with these “threads.” But there are some differences.
I tend to work up an imaginary “dream castle” wherein I feel that I have a relationship with someone, even though I’ve been on only _one_ date with him, for example. As I write this, there are two guys I am thinking of – One is more recent, and thus I’m more emotional about him – I’ll call him Bob.
I also get my emotions worked up and then I tend to let them all out in one long “love letter” (or email), rashly . . . Knowing that I’ll never “win” him by this, and may actually drive him away – I go ahead and send the email — [Hopefully I’ve learned my lesson from both of them, and will never do this again!] — Then I expect to never see him again, as the price of “venting” / expressing those strong emotions.
With Bob, I had sent the love letter, and didn’t hear from him for about four months or so. And I didn’t contact him either; because I felt that I had already said all – There was nothing left for me to say. . . . But then he showed up at my workplace.
We had a very nice talk with prolonged eye contact, happy, smiling, deeply emotional. For his part, he was enjoying the attention — For my part, I was _giving_ myself to him in the eye contact, showing him how I adore him, showing him how I worship him. I guess he came to my work purposely, to see this.
Now, as I am gazing into his eyes lovingly, he makes the verbal statement: “I’m moving miles away to a new location. . . . But anyway, it’s been nice knowing you!” I deliberately tried to keep myself from showing much reaction, but it did take the smile off my face . . . I was absolutely silent, because (as I thought to myself) “There is nothing left to say. Anything I said would be superfluous.”
He looked at me rather peculiarly, as if he enjoyed my predicament, and was very perversely curious about my reaction. Then he laughed. Then he shook hands and left.
Ouch!
I must realize that neither one of these guys really cares about me. I’m the one giving and giving and stroking the egos. If they don’t value me, why should I value them?
The other guy, I’ll call him Jake – I’ve known him longer. He was talking to me the other day and actually _smirked_ about the fact that he only comes to see me when he feels like it – about every two months – Sometimes once a month.
So one guy laughed at me, and the other one smirked. What am I worth to them? Nothing! Why should I give them the time of day?
I can learn from what you’re saying, even though some of the circumstances are different.
Hello, friends, I was on this website a lot last year, trying to cope with the affair with a married man I was having. I broke it off in August, including telling his wife. It kept him away. Basically, I’m writing now ONLY for one reason: because of the ease of emails, I STILL contacted him occasionally. It was over, I had moved on, but even that little contact I realized was keeping me stuck, was avoiding that last bit of facing being alone, facing he wasn’t suitable, facing he isn’t someone I should trust with my thoughts and feelings. I SOOOooooo agree with “contact is contact” and the game about “my guy is one of the nicer ones who is emotionally unavailable (and taking advantage of me)”. It’s GARBAGE. When you’re doing it, you believe it completely. THEN, breaking out, you see the trap you’ve been in. THIS WOMAN HERE KNOWS WHAT SHE”S TALKING ABOUT and has helped so many of us! So, no contact for real now, not a little sharing email every couple of weeks or so or more often. That’s for me. And this is 5 months after I ended it. The internet is the crack cocaine of dating. A powerful high and a habit hard to kick. So are affairs. Too exciting and dangerous and destructive every step of the way. Put the two together, as I did (long distance, lots of internet use) and it was such a trap that was so hard to escape. I’m stone cold sober now!! And it’s not so bad!! LOL.
Also, ladies, I think I may always feel wistful occasionally for the magic I had with this guy. FINE. It was an experience I’ve had. But the price was so high and he’s not a kind, decent person. An experience is just that. We have many memories of things and they’re in our treasure bin, but there are lots of OTHER experiences of value and ones that don’t degrade along with delight. NEVER again will I let that happen to me.
HELLO to anyone of the old friends I had here last spring and summer!!!! And all the best to EVERYONE who comes to this site and receives a benefit. Take care of yourself!!!!
Kaymart,
“..I may always feel wistful occasionally for the magic ..” I think our memories, our experience, is an essential part of life. Thankfully our brains are usually wired to retain the best of things, and the most prominent feelings. I would hate to think that getting caught chewing gum in class in the 5th grade would be the single, defining memory of my life. Days go by that I don’t even think about that! lol.
The other thing that people do, is to build fresh experiences and fresh memories that nestle in amongst our previous life, and often cover over, for a time, some of the things that went before. The same part of us that remembers the best of a bad relationship will let a good relationship prosper in the future. With care, I believe there is hope.
We need to honor our memories to make good decisions in the future. Whether or not we learn from our mistakes and our successes (and hopefully choose to repeat the successes!) will show up in how well our current and future decisions turn out.
Think of moments of wistfulness not as regret, but, with memories turmoil and hurt, preparation to make the best of the rest of your life.
Blessed be!
iam in the same situation in my case ,i met this girl of real low self esteem ,yes iam a fella ,treated her like a women should be treated ,and the father of a love child only got hold of her when she met me ,he eum to her and plays with her mind ,when he dont want her she comes back to me also hes her first love ,double wammy there ,god this hurts iam getting the same treatment from her ,i want to walk away but cant ,am i mad or what
I too fell upon this site when googling “Men who cannot commit”! How ridiculous…I am 40 years old and a single mom. My story? My EUM and I have been “dating” for 4 years. We started out as FWB’s when each of us were going through our divorces. He, married 26 years, me- 10 years. In the beginning, it was casual and just sex. We grew closer, became friends and started to care. In the last couple years is when we both really started to share our feelings. Me, on a much greater level then he. I have said since the beginning that I wasnt sure if he really knew how to love or be loved. Our relationship? Well, we get along great, we love each other, we laugh, we have fun and we rarely ever argue. I guess there in lies the probelm….Because it is all so great, I want more! We started out spending every other w/e and 1 night during the wk together (my son’s nights with his dad). It has evolved into most weekends and the Wed night. But that is it…no talk of every living together and no marriage. Every six months or so we come around to a disagreement about why he chooses to go home some nights after a great night. He has admitted that he doesn’t know how he is going to feel in the future. When I finally started to address “where is this going” He tells me that he loves me, he is committed to me and he doesnt want anyone else in his life”. Sounds great, but when asked about the future, “he doesnt know how he will feel in the future”. I need more…and he knows this. He tells me he knows I deserve more, but it is something he cant give me and doesnt know if he ever will be able to. Recently, I told him I need more and because I was not about to give him an ultimatum, I ended it. We started out talking , but it was too hard. I told him don’t contact but he still did. When I told him again and he didnt…then I got jealous and frantic and contacted him. I told him I thought he should go to counseling to address some of his issues of guilt over his failed marriage and (adult) child with disabilities. We talked about this possibly being his issue of “not being able to move off the mark”. He has started counseling and I really want to share this journey with him and get counseling myself in the hope that we could make it work. He does not share his feelings well, but he is affectionate and very good to me. He just wants to maintain an element of independence and space. Help…I love this man incredibly, but don’t want to be on a rollercoaster of breakups. Just not sure walking away from him was the right thing to do.
Journey,
It’s been four years! How many more years are willing to waste for a man that cannot see a future with you. I think it’s time to find someone who is willing to commit and will appreciate you for who you are and for what you have to offer.
Brad,
The message that stood out to me is that is that he very unclear about a future with her, to me this sounds like he is stringing her along. My God, if you are not clear after a four-year relationship, you never will be. My opinion.
Gaynor,
There are two messages – that she stayed in the same relationship that he stayed in for four years.
I am not clear on why she wanted, now, to change the nature of the relationship, what she wanted to gain. Security? affection? I am also not clear what she thought he was supposed to gain by changing – what benefits would entice him to rearrange a long standing arrangement.
BTW – she wasn’t interested, in all this time, in bringing the guy into her child’s life, nor has he made much effort to be there for the kid outside of their intimate ‘together’ times. That part may well have been left out of the story, but it seems really clear that these people consider their intimate times as sex adventures – not forming a family.
I don’t see a path to any viable form of mating from where they are. If they were both to agree to drop everything and start over – after dealing with the issues that ended their previous marriages, taken the time to find themselves again, and consider whether they are interested in each others as disciplined, honorable co-parent and mate prospects.
It seems simple from the outside – they have affection for each other, they haven’t irritated each other irredeemably in four years, why not get serious, move in, marry, and be a happy family. Yet they have put so very much on hold, important issues and values that it doesn’t sound like have been resolved yet.
Dealing with issues will change them – if they don’t change, what is the point? Now their initial evaluation of each other comes into play – someone suitable for FWB may never be a good mate prospect, and it sounds like neither ever considered the other in that light. And then there is the problem that change is chaotic. Make a big change (like, start interacting daily with a kid that has been sent off every time they get together for four years), and there is no predicting whether they would remain suitable.
If she isn’t making the prospect of a deeper relationship *enticing* to him – does she want him to stay or to go?
Wow, good insight from both of you, I do appreciate your candor. Let me give a little more detail so we appear less awful, I hope:)
We only started out as FWB’s because we knew each other as friends prior to divorces. I think we both felt it was a distraction, right or wrong, it was what it was. It grew slowly into much greater caring. Our relationship definitely grew out of the FWB and has not been solely about sex for a very long time. In the beginning, I did wait a long time before I let him have contact with my son. This was more so not to expose my son to me in another relationship until he had time to recover from the divorce. We have spent the last several years being a part of each others family lives. Granted, he admitted to me recently that he had made a conscious decision in the beginning not to get too close to my son because of concern about his loyaltyies to his dad and possible resentment that he was the first guy in my life right after the divorce. He has a developmentally handicapped daughter (26y.o) who actually lived with me for a year while we tried to get her set up to live independently with help of state/government programs. She was also pregnant during that time of which I guided her through the pregnancy and the ultimate decision she made to release the baby for adoption. So, there has been quite a bit more substance to our relationship than sex. Over the last year, we have discussed “where the relationship is going” and slowly I have wanted to go to the next level and he has not really “moved”. We both feel like we have made efforts to bring each other what we need…he, feeling he has been spending more and more time with me (and my son), me, feeling like I give him the “space” he needs. As far as mutual love, honor, respect for each other. I have no doubt we both have that. Nothing makes me happier than giving him joy. I guess that is part of the issue…I love him, who he is, and how we are together. I just can’t help but to feel that his not being able to move forward is a reflection of how he feels about me. He claims it isn’t, that he knows without a doubt that if he were ready to go there, it would be with me. He is happy the way things are right now. I trust that he is committed to me, he just doesnt want to take it to the next level. For women, I think that is just a natural progression. He is relatively Emotionally Unavailable, doesn’t wear his heart on his sleeve. So, it is hard for me to know if he really “wants” to be with me, I have to trust what he tells me, when he tells me. Bradk, I was really intrigued by your comment about “why would he want to change things when there is nothing enticing to him about the change”. I think that is so true! But really, is there anything enticing to the average guy about living together, not having their “own space” anymore as they see it. As far as the counseling, I think we each need it, because we never really did address our “after marriage” issues, and I think it would help each of us as individuals. I would be lying if I said, I didn’t hope it helps him gain some clarity about what he does and doesnt want in the future and get out of the past. I do struggle with the question “if you don’t know in 4 years, are you ever gonna know”. I tried to break things off, to give him “space and time” to work on his issues that he doesnt know he has. But it was hurting both of us because we care so deeply for one another. We want to try to work through it together, set some guides as to what we both need, what things need to change in our relationship now and a plan that is different from what we have done in the past, instead of just coasting along and finding ourselves on different pages. It’s scary and confusing. And I can’t help it that it makes me feel like I love him so much more than he loves me. I mean, If you love someone that much and the relationship is great, don’t you automatically want to grab hold of it and never let go….or is that just the woman in me talking? PS…he is at his first counseling appt as we speak, he never did this in 26 years of marriage…that has to say something for how he feels about us/me.
@ The Journey,
I am going to play Devil’s advocate for a moment. You keep referring to some change as going “to the next level”, or “moving forward”. Yet you mention that he “isn’t moving”. You use all these directional metaphors as if it were understood by everyone that there is somewhere to go from here, that where you are isn’t a valid place to live.
And what you report is that, yes, where you are now is a place where you are living, and have been for some time.
So I come back to my question, have you indeed picked the right person to build the family with, that you apparently now intend to build? How did you decide that you needed to drag this guy from where he has found comfort to where he apparently isn’t that interested in going?
I think most of the reluctance of guys to marry or build a family, is about recognizing the amount of change that they will encounter in their lives. Those that are interested in building a family, and believe they have found a good mate-prospect, will be eager to bind themselves into their chosen life path.
I am not sure what you see as “the next level”. But even if you are clear about just what will lie on the other side of change from here to there (remember, change is chaotic, and we can *not* see what lies on the other side), you haven’t yet made the promise enticing to him.
If you cannot make the change attractive to him, or if making it attractive is something you cannot or will not do, then if you truly want a mate, you need a real mate-prospect. Your choice.
Journey,
Who recognized there was a problem and suggested therapy? Also, did he say he wanted to change his life and incorporate another into it?
Hey Journey,
I do think all the tough love advise that Brad and Gaynor are giving you is spot on. I will offer, that I understand that the relationship as it stands now is meaningful to you and him.
I guess, my question to you would be, that the roots of it were a way for both of you to distract yourselves from the breakdown of marriages (that both involved children). Yes, it seems you have moved beyond the superficial definition of that, what with the FWB’s aspect of it. But, just maybe, you are betting a bit too much on potential here (to coin NMLs phrase)?
I think the fact that you found this site and are looking for opinions outside of the relationship says alot. I think you truly care for this man and that he truly cares for you, but, maybe you have hit a juncture point or crossroads, so to speak, and maybe, you know deep down, it may not work out.
I wish the best for you and your child.
Keep aware and strong. ts.
I may not understand this right, but I believe what he said, he may not be able to give you want you want. He was married for 26 years – I don’t know what broke up the marriage? Did his wife leave him?
Having a child with disability, my heart goes out to him, I am raising two healthy Teenagers by myself and it is hard.
I don’t believe he is ready for another marriage right now, maybe never.
Like Brad, I am not sure what your “next level” is?
Therapy is not a magic fix, it will not turn him into the person you want him to be, but hopefully help him with his own issues.
Journey, if you are looking to live with a man soon or get married soon, than you have the wrong guy.
But, should the goal always be marriage? (Since living in the States I have noticed that relationships here need to end in marriage or is not a relationship).
My question is, what are you expecting from him right now?
I want to point out what Brad said, he did start out as a “Visitor” and was comfortable with that. He may be thinking: what is wrong with her, we got along fine..
You also sent him mixed messages by saying: Don’t contact me anymore and then he eventually stopped. Then you started freaking out and contacting him. huh??
The decision will be yours, do what is right for you.
I also don’t see him as lying or cheating or being dishonest, is he?
Is he playing games, manipulating or controlling??
If not, why not give it a chance and see what the future will bring.
Can I ask you if you are much younger than him?
But, you have to be comfortable and you should do what is right for you, with him or without him. I really don’t believe that him not be able to move forward has anything to do with you at all – it is him, you didn’t cause that.
You hung in there for 4 years and something brought you to this great website with great Information and advice, make the best choice for you.
I want to add a personal opinion and experience – I hope I won’t get slammed for that – a lot of man at end 40 early 50, divorced after a long of time of marriage are not really looking to settle down again soon, they don’t “know” what they want and are overwhelmed with work, having the kids on their assigned schedules, taking care of their homes, laundry and dating on top of that. I know that people say: if he is interested he will move mountains to be with you, I personally don’t believe this for an “older” man.
Multitasking is not what they are good at.
Journey, it all boils down to what you want and what is good for you, if you cut him loose, don’t start the next guy of as a “Visitor” or you will be in the same boat, Good luck, put the focus on you and your child.
Journey,
… because you are caught up in your emotions; you are thinking in fantasy mode, that the two of you will get therapy and live happily ever after but I have a feeling deep down inside you know this isn’t the case. Yes initially you two were in a situation where you were friends who decided to phuck eachother on a regular basis with no strings attached — which you got emotionally caught up in and probably thought that “hey, well there are no rules saying this can’t be more serious”… but the truth is, because of the foundation in the first place it doesn’t seem like he is preparred to be more serious ith you, if he was then I think he would be more eager to speed up the committment process and because of the nature of your relationship, the dance of the imbalance continues. Whatever your issues you are going to counseling for has probably attracted him to just “being” there and having a casual relationship, vise versa. He has straight out told you that he doesn’t think he can give you what you want which in his words means he can’t and it’s best that you move on. It’s never a good thing when a guy tells you that you deserve more… because hell and high water if he really wanted to be with you and could give you what you wanted he would give you that and not set you free to decide. Perhaps therapy will help you to see the truth and find the relationship you deserve.
and I must add, I’m saying “friends”, but more like aquaintances… that were attracted enough to bang each other on a regular basis.
My biggest pet peeve is people buttering up the fact that they are having sex with someone they either have known for a long time where one of them decides they don’t want to committ into a “relationship mold – FWB” which it isn’t a relationship mode, or two people who are barely friends who bang and say “We are FWBs”… to desperately get some type of consistency and substance in their lives” which isnt at all! You are not Friends with Benefits… ahhhhhhh rant… you are two people who are okay with casual sex and are making it more than it is.