A few days ago I wrote about how we need to Stop Explaining. Stop Talking. Boundaries are upheld with action and today I wanted to focus on talking overload’s friend – thinking used as a way of masking inaction.
I have a friend who spent over a decade (yes you read that correctly) ruminating on her relationship. Every time we caught up about what was going on, she was trying to “work things out” or “figuring things out” or “deciding what the best thing to do is” and even “trying to avoid making a mistake”.
This is all code for deciding whether to stay or go which means being unsure to a great degree, which means something is very wrong, and with a ruminator this translates to thinking things out to the nth degree and being non-commital.
The trouble with ruminating about something, is that you can go into such a level of deep thinking, you end up with your feet metaphorically stuck in cement while your life passes you by. There’s no easier way to sit on the fence in your own life by thinking the crap out of everything while saying it’s the other person or old situations or the pain that’s holding you back.
Exactly how much thinking can one person do? You’re not trying to come up with a cure for cancer or coming up with theories that will have you going down in history with the likes of Einstein and Freud; you’re thinking deeply about yourself or another person or the sum of your relationship or even life, in an unhealthy manner.
You might be making a decision about whether to stay or go. You might be thinking about what happened in your relationship and pondering the coulda, woulda, shoulda. You may be wallowing in pain and rejection. You may be thinking that you wanted them to be the right person and that you don’t want to have to try again. In fact, I know a lot of people burn up copious amounts of brain energy trying to ‘work out’ the other person
What are they thinking? I wouldn’t do something like that – why are they? If it were me and I did that, I think it would mean X. They said Y in January – how could they not mean it in July? I wonder if they’ve got something wrong with them – hmmm, let me Google possible conditions and work up a diagnosis. Oh my God – what if they change for the next person?
Here’s the thing: You can think about what you might say or do ‘next time’ something happens, or analyse the crappola out of what they said, or replay scenes from your life over and over again, or stew and ferment in your your own negative self-talk and pain, but at some point, it’s time to puck yourself in the head, drag yourself out of the fog, wake up and get into the present.
It doesn’t take years to decide whether to stay or go or to work out what you feel about someone. Remember when you’ve been involved with that person that sat on the fence, treated you like an option, flip flapped, said they weren’t sure of their feelings? Well that’s what you’re doing by another name. Commit to a decision. This requires being available so you can be emotionally honest with your eyes and ears open. Not making a decision is a decision in itself – a decision to do shag all. The mistake isn’t the outcome of the decision itself; it’s to not make one.
When you stop over-thinking and take action you make decisions, and if you remain a person of action that has a life, a good level of self-esteem and doesn’t treat each person like they’re the last chance saloon with the key to your happiness, you don’t have regrets because you know you did the best by you with the best of the knowledge that you had at that time.
You could’ve put in another few years in search of the holy grail of having 100% of the answers but instead you’re off living your life with no room for regrets because you’re not looking back all the time or sitting on the fence.
Looking back is being uncommitted to the present and the future.
Playing the coulda, woulda, shoulda game is basically living in the past while taking no responsibility for the present and beyond. The truth is that we could all have done many things differently but that time has passed. Investing a deep level of thinking into something that’s gone and that you have no control over, is a waste. It’s also important to recognise that aside from relationships serving to teach us about ourselves, changing you in the equation doesn’t change them. You’re not God or capable of Jedi mind tricks – you don’t have that level of influence over someone.
Learn and apply as you go. I can assure you if you spend years in inaction stewing in a long drawn out thought process, when you ‘go back out there’, you’ll likely wind up in a shady relationship out of over-thinking.
Wallowing in pain and rejection is like having an open wound and feeding it some salt every day. Of all the productive things you could be doing for yourself, this isn’t one of them. It’s unlikely that you like pain but you’ve become used to being invested in feeling bad. It gives you a purpose but the truth is, your purpose has become finding reasons to continue justifying the pain and rejection and basically why you’re not good enough. You’re actually rejecting yourself and truth be told, you’re also resurrecting and reliving old pain.
To continue wallowing in the pain post breakup instead of grieving it and busting a gut to get past it, is like saying that your relationships aren’t allowed to not work out or only you can end it. And then thinking about it some more.
Wanting them to be the right person because you in essence can’t be arsed to have to put yourself out there, is doing yourself and even them a disservice. It’s like saying “I don’t care that you weren’t the right person for me and that you even behaved like a jackass! I’m gonna THINK about how I wanted you to be the right person for me instead of putting myself out there and trying again to find someone and something more deserving of my energies!”
It’s a misappropriation of energy and time to spend it focusing on someone else when you should be focusing on you. Of all the things you could be ‘doing’, obsessing about them and playing Columbo trying to hunt out more clues, or sitting there like a CSI with a pile of evidence but deciding not to process it and draw a conclusion, is like peeing into the wind.
Yes you get to avoid looking too closely at yourself but while you may have a PhD in them, you’re skipping all the lessons you could be learning about yourself - how can you have less knowledge about you?
Instead of being an expert in your ex, or shady relationships, or pain, be an expert in living your life authentically to make you happy. If everyone ruminated but didn’t apply or share, we wouldn’t know many of the things that we do or make mistakes to learn from. Action converts thinking into a meaningful life.
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Your thoughts?
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About the Author:
Natalie Lue is the founder and writer of Baggage Reclaim and author of the books Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship and more. Learn more about her here and you can also follow her on Facebook and Twitter - @baggagereclaim .
Natalie (NML) – who has written 1083 posts on Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue.
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Happy Girl- I often wonder about this too, my cousin has done a similar thing. He was with a girl for ages but they never moved in together or took it to the next level. Then all of a sudden he has a new girlfriend. Then she gets pregnant and now they’re engaged. Why do people do this? Why do they move so quickly with the new person? Whats so different about them? Why did they commit to the next person?Why didn’t they leave them high and dry?
I find it puzzling why it takes exes YEARS just to apologise. Are they slow or something? Its kind of like whats the point after all that time? It doesn’t change the fact that they’re still in that relationship, with kids and not with you.
Fedup
I’ve been stalking the blog long enough to know this question comes up frequently. It’s another way to put your ex right back in the driving seat of your life – you’re still thinking about him and analysing. And even though he’s long gone, he still gets to call the shots regarding your self-esteem. He’s gone, you’re doing it to yourself now!
However, let me shed some light on this, as someone who’s been EU and been at the receiving end of their behaviour:
1. Many EU men and women, even though they’re crap at relationships, don’t cope well with being single. You’d think that after a breakup they’d want some time out. Nope, they’d rather avoid the hard questions and leap into a relationship with someone else. You’ve no idea how good, bad or indifferent that relationship is even if there are children and a marriage (witness the cheating husbands and fathers on this blog). And do you really want another woman to suffer the way you have? No, we’re better than that!
2. Sometimes we get to be the EU Tamer. With our nagging and persistence he MAY get the message regarding his shortcomings. However the EU Tamer doesn’t get to be the beneficiary of that. Now that he’s Better Person he’d like a Better Girlfriend thanks very much. And that isn’t someone he’s treated like a doormat for x years. Yes it’s hypocritical but I get it. I would never go back to any of the exes I wronged, it’s too embarrassing. And I don’t like to admit it but a part of me would always look down on them a bit. Moral – if he’s treating you like crap, leave. The ship has sailed.
3. Why should they apologise? Most of the time they haven’t committed a crime except be themselves. He can’t be anything else. They’ve given us enough warnings of who they are but we chose to stay. Better off apologising to yourself. And if the AC who assaulted me came back to apologise I think I’d spit in his eye!
4. It takes years because it takes a long time to face up to your “sins” (to be oldfashioned about it). By which time, I sure hope we’ve moved on. And often they’re not really apologising, they want a shag, ego stroke and a shoulder to lean on.
Fantastic comment. Nailed it. Wonderful.
“Moral – if he’s treating you like crap, leave. The ship has sailed.”
Grace – your comment about the ship having already sailed is so painfully true. I hate the truth sometimes! I’ve been on both ends of it now, and both times the victim of the crap behaviour – my ex in one relationship, me in the next – was paralysed by the shock of someone they loved being a right turd. It’s awful and awfully confusing. But it’s a definite sign. When it’s gotten to that stage, it’s been over for some time, but both parties have been, on some level, dishonest and cowardly.
“When it’s gotten to that stage, it’s been over for sometime, but both parties, on some level, have been dishonest & cowardly.”
So true. It is the hardest thing to tell someone that you want to end the relationship, even worse when you are living together or married. Untangling lives and starting over is emotionally and financially draining for alot of people. So many people just end up staying together because it’s easier or there really isn’t a way out because of circumstances that they can’t control.
Awesome Grace!
I would like to add to this if i may:
5. People change (otherwise known as the ‘right person at the right time’ phenomenon) – when i came out of a relationship with my available ex of 6 years, who things simply fizzled out with (we are still on good terms), i didn’t want to be involved with ANYONE – like NML says, they could have been the most perfect person ever, it wouldn’t have mattered. I got into a casual thing with the ex EUM which finally blew up in my face, after which I thought ‘enough is enough, did a lot of work on myself and am now in a healthy relationship. BUT If i had met my boyfriend back then (two years ago), i wouldn’t have wanted a relationship with him EITHER – fansastic though he is. People change, for millions of different reasons, but only when they want to.
The other night I was driving home late and felt a deep sense of abandonment, and thought of the AC. I had a feeling of wanting “someone to come home to.” Though I live with a roommate, the AC was the last person who I felt opened up to on that level.
I decided to go to the beach which I have not been to in a year, because it is near his house (it was 1:30 in the morning). It is a public, breathtaking beach I loved to go to before it became “ours.” Or rather, “his.” I went for a walk along the paths where I would often jog from his place; I sat and looked out on the same vista that I would see from his bedroom, and tried to make both of them “mine” again.
The feelings are still quite strong. Anger. Wanting payback. A sense of unfairness.
In September it will be a year since the breakup. Also it will be my birthday shortly afterward; and I am not sure if I feel more celebratory about the anniversary or the birthday!
The experience of dating him still runs pretty deep in me. I want all of it – the regret, the anger, the connection to old hurts, to be over. A year is a long time to still be angry over someone I barely spent a year with.
I think I’ve made a lot of progress. I just don’t know whether to keep ‘healing’ or to put in another push toward ‘putting myself out there’, and trying to find love again. The months, and the year, have slipped by very quickly.
I relate to your comment. I have a ways to go before I hit my year mark but reading your comment tapped into worries/other thoughts of mine. With the getting back out there, if I still have feelings about it all- does this mean I am not ready to meet someone yet? Should I be feeling more settled and not still so angry/sad/nostalgic, etc.? Since it appears I feel so strongly still after so much time, will I just bring baggage to a new person/dating situation/relationship then? When do you know you are alright? Do you wait it out and just know inside when the time is right? Do you wait years? Or is it normal to still get out there even when you are feeling not 100%? (I mean, yeah, you don’t want to be fresh out of the last relationship but I’m talkin’ after much time has passed and if you are still feeling a bit off.) Or perhaps you just date and not think about a relationship necessarily?
J
I think you’re ready when you want to date with a view to a proper relationship. You feel optimistic about it and confident that you can handle the inevitable hiccup.
Dating when you don’t want a proper relationship is problematic. It’s what the EU do. We’ve all been at the receiving end of that. He pursues you, he asks you out, he asks you out again. You meet his friends. You see each other several times a week. And a few months/a year later he’s “not ready for a relationship”. What now?
I’ve also been guilty of ruminating. I’ve been wondering why I’m a good person and make a great girlfriend, yet I seem to keep getting screwed over. I feel like I’m banging my head against a brick wall. Then the AC exes move on as fast as lightning speed and seem happy in the next relationship. Yet I’m the one always nursing a broken heart and all alone. But they seem to come out smelling of roses.
The one person that wasn’t an AC I had a summer fling with. But he had to go home interstate, an hour plane trip. I thought that was the end. But then he said he wanted to continue seeing me. Due to the problem of long distance he asked me to move in with him.
I’ve been ruminating too long becuase I just can’t come to a conclusion what to do.
Fedup, the reason why these people appear to land on their feet is because they don’t spend their life stewing over their pasts. Their lives don’t disappear due to heartbreak. They press the reset button and get back out there without dwelling. The healthier side of this is more of a middle ground. Never make the mistake of thinking that because you feel bad about something and sat on it for a lengthy period of time that it should have bothered the other person to the same extent.
Ouch.
I just wanted to share with everyone how I have been getting through the last 10 months now (wa-hey!) of NC in the hope that it gives people the strength to keep going. it has been SO tough at times, and I am not going to go into the ins and outs of what happened to me – its all history now anyway, but lets just say it followed the usual pattern of hot pursuit, followed by hot and cold, followed by just cold. The BS just flowed from his lips. Oh, and he was married. With children. And Tiger-Woods style famous in his field.
It has been hell at times but I am doing great now, and here`s how:
1) Read, read and read again on this site. Download Natalie`s books and memorise them. I took particularly pertinent quotes and wrote them out on a piece of paper that I carried in my bag and read when I needed to. The ode to women is particularly useful! I have lost count of the number of times I have said to myself “If loving you means I can`t love me, then I choose me!”
2) Write a list of all the things that were crap about the “relationship” and about him. Be nasty if you have to! “Saggy arse” was on my list! It will help you keep things real when you get nostalgic.
3) DO NOT contact him. I wrote an entire essay viewing things from “his perspective” and how he must view me now – it was pleasant reading because I haven`t chased him, didn`t sleep with him in the end and it made me realise that by continuing in this way he can do nothing else but respect me. But even if you have chased him/did sleep with him IT DOESN`T MATTER because it is from NOW that counts, not before. “You are not that woman. Not anymore”.
4) Write out who you want to be. Set goals for yourself in the short, medium and long-term, and visualise the woman you want to become. If you already know someone who can act as a role model for you, think to yourself whenever you feel down “What would X think about this? how would she handle it?” Soon enough you start feeling like the woman you want to be. It gives you a future to focus on.
5) Analyse what happened in the past, but from the perspective of figuring yourself out. Look at your habit patterns, what you did/didn`t do. Rather than obsessing about him, obsess about yourself, and figure out how you can grow and change from this experience. Expect to be up and down, euphoric and miserable. Feel all the feelings anyway. It`s a bit like labour – every pain is a…
Great tips Gaman. What’s key to your progress is you recognise that it takes consistent effort including nurturing to get through this – you don’t just sit there in pain feeling bad about yourself and then one day just click back into happy. Kudos to you and well done.
Thanks Gaman .. I’m going to try some of those tips. At this stage I’d give anything to get what’s happened to me these last few months out of my head. The biggest thing I’m obsessing over is my pure disbelief at how I was treated in my last relationship, why it happened and why I let it happen. I keep going over the putdown ‘jokes’ he said to me wondering were they true or whether I just lack a sense of humour like he implied. I also sit and wonder what it was about me that made him ok with saying or doing things that he knew I wasnt ok with. I wonder why I didnt put my foot down hard enough. I wonder am I just blowing it all out of proportion. Its really easy to confuse yourself by overthinking and obsessing.. going around and around in circles coming to no lasting resolution. Thats where I am at now. My self esteem is in shatters I’m trying everything I can to rebuild it but no luck yet.
I’m not sure what my problem is.
I no longer spend endless hours thinking about him or analysing him, yet something isn’t right.
I have gone backwards where he is creeping back into conversations with friends, one who kindly pointed it out to me asking why when you are not together do you always mention him, you went for months without speaking about him and now he is back in all conversations everytime we catch up.
Contact with him has also crept up and if I’m completely honest it has come from me and yet I would be adamant about not wanting to get back with him nor am I thinking of ways to be with him.
I know I am happy when we aren’t in contact and here I am sabotaging myself and I don’t know why.
I have looked closely at myself and realise that I am very much eu so maybe I’m thinking its all too hard to change, I don’t know.
Any insight would be appreciated.
Tulipa, if you’re going backwards it’s because you’ve chosen to go backwards because you don’t want to go forwards. Glutton for punishment is what springs to mind. You may be adamant that you don’t want to go back to him but that’s a hollow belief because it’s what you on a logical level know but it’s not what you truly believe and feel. You’re not done. You may even have convinced yourself that you’re so over him that you can now handle him at this level in your life – if you were that over someone who treated you so poorly, you’d move ON.
Thank you NML cannot argue with what you have said.
I have downloaded The No Contact Rule book and so glad I did except it is scary how accurate it is to me and this situation.
Tulipa
You’re by no means the first and you won’t be the last women who will not give up contact and jumps through a gazillion hoops justifying it. You think you can handle it. It’s obvious to me that you can’t. I couldn’t either.
It’s not a sign of strength to keep jumping into the fire. Strength is pouring a bucket of cold water over it and walking away from the debris.
Nat is right, it would stick in my throat to have contact with the toxic exes now. I went through a stage of fantasising about bumping into them and then wafting off carefree. Now I’d cross the road to avoid them (and I’m in London so that’s no mean feat). Not cos my feelings run so high but it would be embarrassing. I just wouldn’t have anything to say to them.
We are really into the dysfunction aspect of the relationship, in love with the fantasy of being able to finally be ‘together and happy’ he just needs to stop doing this, a little bit of that… Oh, he will once I do this and he sees how great I am and we will ride off into the sunset. I remember watching an episode on tv about real people who were ‘in love’ with MM… and guess what, when the married person did divorce and choose them, the novelty wore off… The truth was revealed and the only thing that really bonded them was the unavailability… No relationship can be without truth and a healthy dynamic. So, their illusion of being in love came to light.
So what’s the difference between grieving and wallowing? I know it’s not good to repress and deny your feelings. But how do you keep on the healing path and avoid getting stuck in the pain? Sometimes the pain waves feel involuntary and they can be overpowering.
I spent months of analysing the MM that would behave in odd ways and say things that just didn’t add up.
Sometimes I felt like a moron. He told me from day one he would never leave his wife. I knew this. He was/is a christian (hypocrite) and believed in family (that’s why he chased another woman) that’s why he couldn’t leave his wife – yet she left him twice. Once for another woman and another for a man. I was there through both those times and his reactions were an eye opener. I didn’t want him to leave his wife at all and in fact I encouraged him to go after his wife when she left him.
But what he did was to manipulate a situation with me to justify to himself that I was to blame for what was going on in his life – which of course he denied. In the end, I got the hell out of dixie and I have been NC for ten months. I spent at least 3 months analysing and getting angry and the rest trying to find me again. One thing that comforts me is that I know his failures in his marriage is not MY fault. It’s his and his wife fault and his marriage is still crap because everything in his life is about HIM first. Everyone else is to blame but him.
I am no longer the OW. I am free. I am rebuilding my life because I am worth it and that’s what all the OW on here should do, too.
OK, l have serious question and it is kind of an offtopic for current article. I have met in a short time of period a number of guys who run the following mindset: “You loose BIG time, if you dont have much sexual experience, and the girls, that capture certain aura about them, are the real catch,” or “the girl l will marry one day, will benefit of all the previous experiences l have had in the bedroom” or “how can you go with being frineds with a guy if you dont shag him,” or ” that girl has THAT look in her eyes, which you dont,” or simply to put it “you are plain odd, and naive if youre NOT shagging left and right.”
I am suddenly surrounded by so called “teachers” who are trying to tell me, how much l am missing. Yes, seems the world is becoming too casual and l might have wrong people in my network (those guys arent my dates), but today l it kind of got me and l felt really hurt. Am l overreacting??
Ladies, back me up. How to handle this?
In school, I was a good student, and worked hard…it was depressing how many of my classmates expected that I would let them copy my homework. EVERYONE copied homework, they told me. It was really the teachers’ fault for giving us so much. Friends should help eachother, they told me. What kind of a friend was I, if I wouldn’t “share”?
Being young and insecure I gave in, and later I wished that I hadn’t. These kids were not my friends. They were too damn lazy to do their own homework, and they manipulated me. They preyed on my low self-esteem and longing to be liked.
These guys who say that men like sexually-experienced women sound like they are offering the same kind of rationalization. Like my former classmates, they just want what they want, without having to make any effort for it….good grades with no studying, easy sex without having to do the work of developing a relationship or making a committment. And if they’re told “No,” they rationalize and twist things so that it’s everyone else’s fault.
My classmates were nice to me to get my answers on the homework — but did they truly care about me, or respect me? Of course not. I respected myself less for giving into their demands. I’ve discovered that casual sex is like that for me too. It doesn’t work for me. I become attached, want more, and feel rejected and used.
So I’ve finally learned. I no longer let people copy my work, and I no longer have casual sex. I don’t give a damn if other people don’t like me for it. I don’t care if other people let themselves be copied from, or shag left and right. Maybe it works for them. It doesn’t work for me, and I’m the one that I have to look after — not a bunch of selfish users who want everything for free! Trust me, they will look after their own interests! They don’t need me to do it for them.
Brilliant Tanya. It is so true that our relationship behaviour is often replicated in other aspects of our lives and your comment truly illustrated this. Thank you for sharing!
Thank you, as well. I wasnt sure if l should post this comment in a first place, but in those situations l have done this – held my head high and just left the room. It does hurt, the whole situation, and if you get these messages in short period, it kind of gets into you, and l wanted to get it out. I thank you very much for understanding and giving a nice feedback.
Tanya, are you my long lost twin?! I used to do the same thing in school and a few years ago I realized that casual sex left me with the same icky feeling. Love, love your comment. One of the best I’ve ever read
Also one of the best comments I’ve ever read here, Tanya. So wise.
Yes, and links so well to oldenoughtoknowbetter’s concerns about whether or not to professionally help someone who personally wronged her. Yes, there are instances where being kind and giving is great and admirable, but others were you’re just being used and harming yourself.
Gaman
You have the right idea about writing down all of the things that were bad/horrid about him. I keep a list of all of the snide insults and bad behaviour i endured from my narcissist pinned up on the wall of my pc room, and when i feel nostalgic, and i do sometimes tend to remember some of the good times we had before he showed his ‘true colours’, i read the list and add to it on a regular basis particularly when i feel the urge to see if maybe things could be different one more time around. But then, after i have endured over 12 months of NC and i am feeling great for having done so, i feel i could not go back to have him cheat, lie and generally try to bring me down once more. It’s taken me such a long time to get this man out of my head, that i really cannot put myself through all the anguish ever again. And to think when i discovered his cheating – he offered me the ‘friends’ card!! I am worth much more than to be a FB or a FWB and it feels just great…..
I love this article, it helped me these past two days, I’ve realised i’ve probably gone through everything and thought very thought possible about the relationship and breakup, and I knw ow that thinking it over again will do NOTHING. it will accomplish nothing, been there, done that.
But what if pain comes up without you intending it to?
I try to distract myself and do other things, but by the night time, usually I feel some hurt creeping in and I’m not sure how to stop it.
I don’t want to be with my ex AC I’d do ANYTHING not to be in that relationship again and get hurt like that again, but the pain he caused me still lingers in, I have a great emotional memory of how I felt when he pulled the disappearing acts everytime, and how little he treated me.
I had completley no knowledge in relationships, to me every relationship could work, I had that belief, and I could do the work, I could change things in the relationship so it’d work, I was so wrong. If only one is going to do all the relationship work then it’s going nowhere. I was 18 naive and just got out of a relationship with a guy who treated me amazing, I thought all guys were like that, all relationships was as healthy as my first, and I was never rejected before. Couple that with a guy who is emotionally unavailable, has commitment issues and he’s smart in a way that he knew my weaknesses and used them against me to keep me hanging in that relationship, and you get the most painful and dangerous relationship. UGH.
I too had an almightly shock that a guy (a person) who I trusted could be so awful and irresponsible. My other two, adult relationships had been with pretty gentle, honourable men. That’s why pain is felt, even when you’re seemingly not thinking about it – it’s a natural response to a deep shock or trauma! I know of friends who have seen therapists and undergone hypnotherapy, just to ease off that intense fear response to certain triggers. I have been thinking about this problem too because I still – over a year on – get unwelcome fears, and misunderstand threats. (We need a session with Paul McKenna!!! ; ))
Well that’s a little depressing
I’m not going to see a counselor or a therapist, is it impossible to get through it without seeing a counsellor ? It’s been 3 or 4 months since the breakup, I have a my good days and bad days
I think it’s more than possible to get through this without a counsellor. I am sure most people do. I haven’t seen one, and, just to be clear, the situation I was in was made worse by some other factors, which became tied up in the whole AC ball of thorns (hence me considering whether seeing someone would be a good decision). Time and what you do with that time (how kind you are to yourself and how open to other experiences) are the best healers. Soon enough, especially if you’re disciplined with your thoughts – watch and quickly soothe yourself and move onto something else that is grounded – the feelings will subside. I assure you, it is far, far better for me, almost entirely better. Just moments of panic every now and then that are getting less and less frequent, less intense, and which I manage far more quickly. You will get through this!
Rawan
I’ve needed to see counsellors (and I was referred to a psychiatrist on the nhs) because I have recurrent depression and anxiety from childhood. If you’ve been abused as a child, a counsellor can be necessary because what you learn as a child really sticks in a way that adult difficulties don’t (usually- if you’ve been raped/kidnapped or suchlike, that’s more than a “difficulty”).
A counsellor isn’t a magic bullet, you still have to put in a lot of commitment and hard work. You do most of the recovery yoruself and it takes time. A counsellor can really help you get unstuck – if you’re trapped going round and round the same obsessive thoughts, an outside party can show you the Exit sign.
Three months isn’t such a a long time to get over a break up and you do have good days. For me, I had no good days for months on end, maybe over a year. Depression is serious, it does lead to suicide.
Anyway, I’m rambling. My point is that everyone is different and you need to decide for yourself if you need outside help.
I haven’t posted in a while but have regularly read this blog since last summer when I fell fir and got burned by a hot-cold blowing eum. Fastforward to 4 months ago I met someone ‘tall dark and handsome’ who I didn’t instantly click with and because he was polite, and did ‘all the right things’ I felt I should try to get to know him. After heeding nat’s advice on examining ‘types’ I felt it was right to explore this as my previous experiences with the ‘good-looking outgoing guys’ seemed to end with me falling hard and not getting the relationship I wanted. So this quiet, introverted but apparently sweet and consistent guy shows up, I think ‘ok he is not what I’m used to but that’s ok as I feel safe abd respected due to his actions matching up to his word’. He opened up a bit after a month, told me he was smitten, over the following month stepped it up when I expressed my wanting to take it slow due to previous bad experiences and said he wanted to be ‘my boyfriend he was falling in love like never before’. Next thing I have the key to his flat, daily texts of how much he loves me, and I go away for a few days with girlfriends he wants to drop me off/ pick me up… Perfect courtship, this is how it should be I think, I still am not if I’m in love with him as it has only been 2.5 months and I have a worry he maybe ‘fastforwarding me’ but I put that to one side, as everyone around me reassures me he has been consistently well behaved for this time and wants me to meet significant people in his life… I still have that feeling when I’m with him that he is a bit too quiet for me and I dont feel like I am myself around him, become a little quiet too but think maybe I am overthinking and just not uses to being treated well. Have not been in a “proper relationship” in years, even never…. Then he starts getting snappy, I put it down to me talking about something he is sensitive about and not realising. Then he announces a big promotion at work, and talks about what a massive deal it is, he at the end of the month needs to focus on work, I understand that. However it’s almost like he switched on me for most if the month. Actually he went from being sweet and attentive to irritable, moody, not interested or eveeven asking
Maya
Alarm bells are ringing. It’s not really to do with his personality, it’s the key to his flat (I wouldn’t expect that for at least six months), his daily texts (texts?!), and blowing hot in response to your blowing cool. It’s a textbook EU situation. You don’t even sound as though you like him very much.
I think if a man gets a promotion at work, a good response would be to take you out for a meal to celebrate. Rather, he’s telling you he’s got no time for you and being snappy. If you think this is being treated well, I dread to think what you’ve experienced in the past.
Seems like both of you wanted to make this work and are now realising it isn’t. What you going to do about it.
Yup, Yup, Yup!
Grace you are spot on!
Maya, please be very careful and take heed of what Grace has said. Your description of how things have gone so far with this man are an almost *exact* carbon-copy of the first 4 months of my relationship last year – and you can guess that it didn’t end well, or I wouldn’t now be reading all the excellent advice and comments on BR! I experienced all the same stuff early on – the words being backed up by actions and consistency, the “perfect courtship”, him being smitten, me not being that sure about him at first and being a little uneasy about the rather fast pace but putting it to one side, the daily texts, meeting his parents, key to his place, etc etc etc….. But he just couldn’t keep the almost-too-perfect-gentleman facade going beyond the first few months, and just when I’d fallen for it all (and fallen in love with him as a result) I too started getting to see a bit of the tired and irritable side of him, and then it was a slow decline into a self-centred jerk whose actions ended up showing he could hardly be bothered to care about my feelings and needs. At the end of a year together, I flew thousands of miles to join him in Argentina to spend time together at the end of his 3-month “working holiday” there. It turned out the whole time he was out there he had been writing loving I-never-got-over-you-in-any-way-at-all Facebook messages to his previous girlfriend, along with flirtatious messages and Skype calls to other women too). By then, I had gone from being at the top of his priority list in the early days to being well down it – and completely puzzled as to how and when this turning of the tables could have happened. He couldn’t even be arsed to get things organised with swapping his work with his “boss” (a friend who wasn’t even paying him for his work out there!) so that he could be there to meet me at the airport at the end of over 24 hours that I’d been travelling to be with him. By the time we got back to Heathrow 2 weeks later, he literally ran away from me to catch a bus and I never saw him again. Yes, as Grace says, it was from start to finish the classic EUM behaviour we have all learnt to recognise from so many posts on this website. Your alarm bells should indeed be ringing, Maya… Please do take care.
Maya, I have to agree – I’m not feeling this. If this is how he reacts to a positive, exciting event like a promotion, how is he going to react when something negative happens in either one of your lives? My Mom always says that if a man acts up over stuff like this when you’re dating, you have to wonder what he’ll act like if you are married with a mortgage and young children and someone loses their job. Hope this helps!
I saw a movie with a friend last night in which the hero-guy looked A LOT like the AC. Hero-guy died, and my weak little brain shed a tear for the AC more than the character. As I wiped that clown-tear away, I recognised that it is not really about him, it’s just a warped memory of pain. It was nice that it only lasted a few minutes – while the images were showing – and did not linger during what was otherwise a fun night. It’s just like remembering any other loss. You have to accept these things as part of your life, and part of life generally.
Meanwhile, I am still seeing new guy, and loving it for the most part, but geez I still get confused sometimes about when I am being reactive (to something outside the relationship or from my past) and when it is appropriate to set a boundary or enforce some space. But one thing I have been doing – thanks to this site – is being better at deciding a response and doing it without engaging in elaborate deliberations and training exercises. New guy gets it anyway, and so when he’s being sub-standard, I actually know now that it’s better for me to keep my response simple and then give him space, because he’ll do the thinking for himself. (Don’t think for other people, ladies and gents!!!)
(sorry hit send too soon, on my mobile can’t seem to edit!)… Doesn’t really ask about my day. Yes there are occasional ‘nice moments’ and in the week running up to his big day, I barely hear from him so I message him good luck, offer to drop food round as I had mentioned I would previously to save him time and he was rude, and said I don’t want to see anyone even though I clearly said I was literally dropping off for 5 mins in middle of my working day. It’s almost like he doesn’t like to acknowledge I’m a busy working doctor too, he has said ‘he doesn’t think much of my profession’ based on some bad experiences. So many other things, he has said I have misled him about how experienced I am, which I never have. I’m in my late twenties, a virgin, but I have kissed and been physical obviously with exes. I told him this then later he twists it into making out I said ‘all I ever did was kiss’ which I find bizarre given he has slept with women, he has snapped at me so many times and I was so shocked with how he changed when ‘under stress’. I did say to him ‘I don’t feel like I know you well enough to know how to support you when you’re under pressure, what do you need from me’ which I thought was the mature approach, to which he scoffed ‘well that’s worrying if you dont know me by now!’ and became moody. I mean at 3 months?! I was happy/ more confident when I met him and as he changed how he was I felt all that nosedive. He got his promotion and I promised my worried friends I would have a talk with him about my concerns, and hoped he would say ‘sorry I was a jerk, I get like that when stressed’ that’s all I wanted. I just wanted it to go back to how it was before, instead he has a fight with me that he can’t believe I’m bringing anything up when he was stressed and he did mention when we first started dating ‘he can be moody’, then somehow he starts going on about my exes, how he can’t believe a word that comes out of my mouth! Anyway I’m away with work for a few weeks and just before leaving he started being sweet again. I know the fact I’m so anxious is a bad sign, I’m ruminating. Its hard for me to meet guys I can date due to cultural reasons and ones who are not intimidated by my job. I want to feel like I gave this my best shot but equally I dont want to be wondering ‘what happened to that guy I first met’…. Confused!…
Maya,
I think you both are using the “pressure” as an excuse for his bad behavior.
This man is putting you down and treating you very disrespectfully. He has issues! Everyone is busy and has pressure, there is no reason for him to be treating you, or anyone else in this manner.
I would end this immediately!
Sirens are blaring Maya! This guy sounds like a tool. Taking your concerns and turning it around to blame you? Taking the things that you’re self-conscious about and using them against you? Sounds like an AC to me. Don’t believe the “sweet” part right before you left.. he’s trying to keep you holding on. You deserve so much better and if you don’t find someone right away who respects your culture and choices, so what? Believe in yourself and eventually you’ll meet someone who believes in you just as much.
Aaaaamen Allison! Very well said. My ex-AC was the same way – it boils down to, “Oh, I have SO MANY PROBLEMS. That’s why I can’t treat you well!” (Though, in my case it was followed with, “Most of it is your fault anyway. Screw you for wanting me to treat you with respect. I do really want to be friends though.” Seriously.) Anyway, there is really no one on this earth who is not under some sort of pressure at some point or another. Maya, you’re a doctor and part of your job is to make life and death decisions. That’s pressure. You manage not to act like an ass, why can’t he?!
Maya,
Please walk away. The reason that he denigrates your professional work is that it is held in high esteem (and rightly so) by society, and he wants to lower you into menial support for himself, only. Grinding you down makes him feel big.
A young woman in her late twenties, with a fine future, will find a loving equal partner out there; so much so that you will love without reservations.
Now Walk!
Maya – That man is at best, EU and at worst, an emotional abuser. Trust me, I married it. There is no rhyme or reason to their behavior. Honestly, I didn’t even read the end of your post – I already got the full picture from a few words. He is rude, disrespectful and not worth your time. Hit the flush handle and move on. Do it NOW. I wish I had years ago and now I just want to stop other women from the same mistake. Take care of yourself.
maya
Eek, it’s even worse than I suspected!
The guy you first met doesn’t exist. Anyone can put on a good show for week, or even a month or two. He probably even meant it at the time “Maya is so great, this time it will be different. Magically, my previous problems with relationships will disappear.” However, you don’t have that power (no-one does) and he’s reverted to what he really is – moody and mean. Moody is bearable if you’re the kind of person who’s happy to do your own thing while they stew (and you don’t want children) but mean is unacceptable.
He’s being sweet because you’ll be gone soon and he can afford to let his guard down “Might as well throw Maya a bone, she’ll be off soon and I can kick back for a while without her expecting anything from me”.
I understand some of this thinking cos I’m introverted and get moody too when people want too much from me. But at least I don’t promise loads of shizz I can’t deliver. And I don’t pick on my friends either.
It’s hard for all of us to meet guys. I don’t know of any woman, however beautiful and together who says “All day long attractive and available men approach me”. The answer to that isn’t to throw all your hopes at an unsuitable candidate, it’s to be MORE PICKY (about the right things) so you don’t waste time or get your self-esteem so dented you become incapable of making a good decision for yourself.
Your job is a non-issue. The Queen’s marriage seems to be doing all right.
MORE PICKY HEAR HEAR AND AMEN TO THAT!
Maya – lots of good responses above. I’ll add my two cents: one, putting down your profession – not cool. My exAC used to like to mock the subject of my PhD dissertation. That IS him being intimidated by you being able to do your job, he’s just being nasty about it. Two, if we focus on you, and not his behaviour, what jumped out at me is that you said, even when he was polite, that you didn’t feel you could be yourself around him. Place a higher value on being able to be yourself, and YOU’ll drop HIM.
Maya, FLUSH and run! He is a false faced entity…this is why dating is a discovery phase…Run Girlfriend…always know that once a “good guy” begins to treat you badly they are no longer “good guys” for/to you. Always be prepared to “cut em loose”…that’s how I see it now…your gut will always tell you so! You don’t need his garbage being thrown at you…nor do you deserve it. He is showing you who he is and his anxiety/stress isn’t a reason nor an excuse for treating you unkindly. Boot him to the curb. It’s not a loss; it’s a release to find someone worth your time and affection.
Maya, total classic AC and EUM behavior…all of it. Including the part where he doesnt respect your profession. I got the same thing from the last guy I dated, only he said to me ‘you have your sh-t together’ like it was a character flaw. I now realize that he didnt feel good about himself so he constantly tried to downgrade me. Even to the point of acting like the fact that I had some morals was a bad thing.
Sm, I got the same thing from the last one too! He drank a ton and, on a date especially, I stick to a two drink limit. He also drove drunk, which I would rather jump off a cliff than do. He was trying to get me drunk one night when I had to drive (I ordered my one drink from the bartender and he said, “She’ll have a large one.”) I said, “Regular size is fine, thanks!” He said, “You’re actually really intelligent.” with a look on his face like he’d just discovered I had a contagious case of polio. You know the guy is a loser when “having your shit together” is a negative to him
Here is a (new) song that I love – and one of its themes is about the harms that can come from entering a new relationship when you’re still hung up on pain from the past: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UVNT4wvIGY
Elle, that song was brilliant, thank you for sharing. “You’re just somebody that I used to know”. I think that says it all!!! I had never heard of this band either, I will look into them further, great song.
Elle, I listened to this song about 10 times in a row I found it so beautiful. So glad you posted it.
Isn’t that bit where Kimbra sings back her frustration to him about him still being hung-up on an ex so wonderfully poignant?! And I love the idea of being painted in and out of someone’s life.
@ itgetsbetter
Yeah for Adele …tho she seems to have worked through some AC s in her young life !
I used to sing / cry along to these lyrics for ages
” but there was a side to you I never knew
And all the things you said they were never true
And the games you played you would always win
But I set fire to the rain…and I threw us into the flames ……”
I used to cry when I listened to this ….now I just punch the air !!!
Not posted for a while as in hols with my kids and friends ….was just ” rockpooling ” today , in the sun , listening to my kids laugh, ….feeling truelly happy in the simplistic activities….and I found myself realising …I don’t ruminate or obsess anymore , I don’t think about him 24/7 and feel like my mind will explode, I don’t need reasons , I don’t need an apology, I sleep ( well ) , I started looking out for me ( and joined the gym ) , Infact on the beach today …I almost said out loud ” what the f**k was I doing with him ???”, and someone purleese tell me what I saw in him ..like ever ??!!!”
I think his last ( unanswered text ) read ” me and my no strings attached c**k miss you ”
Ha. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Honestly its only NC that gave me this healthy perspective and helped me heal …..I’m thinking of you Bri….I know how desperately you will want to hang on…and he is different, and your love is unique, blah blah blah ….been there too …its only NC that enables true perspective and healing of self !!
Ps if it helps …when I first read about the NC rule I thought it would be utterly impossible !! ( its not !!!!! ) thanks Nat .
Fitness, since we’re on the subject on Adele, this is my favorite of hers! It’s funny, now when I hear it I also think, “Ohmygod, Florence. Cut his ass off.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alk6tCF0KAU
Glad you are feeling better and you found YOUR place in the sun. That text sounds quite disgusting and insensitive…..for me it would be the final nail in the coffin I needed to turn the corner.
fitness – again, the rudeness of this guy is off the charts! Can’t you block his texts? I’ve been following your comments and you are in such a different place than when you got here. Inspiring!!
OMG, I’m just finishing Natalie’s ebook “Get to Grips with Values & Value in Relationships. If you are ruminating, download it ASAP. I stopped ruminating by page 5 as reality smacked me upside the head. I’m an avid reader of this blog, great admirer, and a studious student, when I read Natalie’s books I get more clarity as there is such tremendous context. This is a must read.
Natalie, the entire book resonated with me and now I’m starting to understand why I’ve made the same mistakes with men over and over again. It’s me, my lack of boundaries, and no clue as to values. Your description of “appearance, attraction”, chemistry, and passion” is to die for, pardon the pun. If we didn’t live on opposite sides of the earth, I’d swear your encounter with the 6’4″ attached dude with the cheeky smile was the same MM I fell for. I fell for your attached dude just by your description. You would have, back in the day, fallen for mine too…he…he..hee.
Simply the best Natalie. Anybody who is stuck ruminating, this is a MUST READ. I had no idea. Thank you doesn’t quite capture it. Thank you.
@Runnergirl & Natalie
“I’d swear your encounter with the 6’4″ attached dude with the cheeky smile was the same MM I fell for. ”
Sounds like an exact template for my ex-EUM-AC-narcissist-teammate! That darn smug cheeky smile and when he wasn’t hiding behind mirrored sunglasses (checking out all the other fluff as well) there was a twinkle in his eyes = dangerous not fun.
I learnt too late that if they cannot sustain eye contact then they are only after a fling no matter what their words are. Actions speak louder than words, so true.
“I learnt too late that if they cannot sustain eye contact then they are only after a fling no matter what their words are. Actions speak louder than words, so true.”
This is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT true.
Also, I found that any man who calls women “girls”, as in, “I was dating this girl”, or “The last girl I was with was crazy”, was – without fail – the words of an underdeveloped, emotionally stunted man-child.
Look for a man who looks you RIGHT in the eye, even when you disagree, and calls you the woman you are.
So true, Blaise. The AC did that – infantalised and medicalised his exes and women in authority. Also, he lied about little things, things most people would not even dream of lying about, but then, when I called him on it, would say, he was ‘just embarrassed’ (or ashamed or not wanting conflict). Slippery on small things = training for bigger acts of bullshittery.
Nat…I don’t see the “Get to grips with values” ebook listed anywhere on your website that Runnergirl is talking about. Is is available still?
Here you go http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/my-books/
that’s my favorite one! love it…
I’ve learned so much from all of Natalie’s books and this blog and all of you. Mr. U and the FBG was so scary great. Each time I read Natalie’s books, it seems to come just at the right time for me even though I’m seem to be lagging and shoulda, coulda, and woulda read them sooner. The “Getting to Grips with Values” just so struck home at this precise moment. I’m still trying to get a grip on how primary values are so fundamental and common interests are, well, simply common interests. I can have common interests with just about anybody but that doesn’t mean I should marry them, particularly if they are already married!
I’m finally finishing my Unsent Letter to the ex MM, unloading his baggage and separating his shit from mine. Oh we had so much in common but not a single fundamental core value. WTF was I thinking? Let the fire hydrant and fireworks finally explode this time. Ruminating over his baggage and mine is too exhausting. I’m tired of being sick and tired. I want to live again. Off with his heavy bag-o-rocks.
ooh I didn’t know about those ones! more BR ebooks — fantastic! been studying the the NC & Mr. U/Ms. FG intently on my “Rumination Holiday”. maxed out at moment, hopefully can swing it soon! the more I have to help re-train the mind, the better.
yep, unpacked the bags, had a pretty nice weekend of solo time, needed the break from various current stresses. discovered the UK series “Peep Show” on Hulu, and have gone through about half of it — I don’t think laughed so hard in over a year! actual tears from laughter. I don’t think I’d have appreciated it as much until now. I still fall apart listening to Amy Winehouse (music is big rumination trigger), still need to stay away from sad romantic jazz, esp. Billie Holiday.
very late last night a wave of that “final mourning” did crash over. but instead of spiraling down, I actually called a counselor hotline # someone gave me last year, glad I did. first time I’ve ever tried that — it was 1am, so too late for much else. it helped to get back on track. I actually told her about Baggage Reclaim, she was very interested after hearing about all the concepts and said it sounds extremely positive. she also said that the long-term grief experience was normal, and was very encouraging. I didn’t agree with everything, but that’s OK. it really is amazing to have the BR site & ebooks, sometimes when you live alone I think it’s good to reach out to talk to someone.
Brilliant, painfully relevant post. Wonderful, insightful, thought-provoking comments. I’ll be reading it all again with hopes that some wisdom and courage will continue to seep into my stubborn, wallowing brain.
I was doing well, 60 days NC now. Go me! Yet, I must admit, I am sad sad sad that I’ve only heard from once in the last two months, a month ago. I’m surprised, truly, and am feeling deeply hurt. With the way our last conversation went, I thought he might reach out.
He’s not an AC, just got his own EU issues and is a terrible communicator, but it’s still so hard not to take things to heart and personal. I wanted to feel as though I mattered. Maybe I did and he’s reluctant to express it. Still, it hurts! It would be nice to be with someone who’s not afraid to express their true feelings.
The things I most regret and and ruminate the most about are the mistakes “I” made. The things I wish I had said/done differently. I deeply regret not going out for a visit last summer when he really wanted me to. I realize the outcome could possibly be the same, yet I would at least have had a sweet memory. I’m uncomfortable with the way I handled my behavior and that does not sit well. I realize at this point all I can do is keep taking steps forward to heal old wounds, and re-build my shattered self-esteem so future relations have a chance of being healthy and mutually loving.
It just pains me deeply that a long term friendship has come to an end. Ouch. That hurt to write. It’s hard to wrap my brain around that it’s come to this.
One last thought…..I’m aghast at how far off track I’ve gone. I used to feel confident, attractive, bright, witty, etc.; when did sniffing around for crumbs become okay? It disturbs me that I lost myself, and that I’ve so much work to do to find my way back. I’m 6 months away from 50; I’m humiliated I’m at this place in my life, a shell of my once vibrant self.
Ok, rant over. After wallowing in a very dark place for days, soothing myself with too much ice cream (OH, so cliche!), I think I simply needed to vent and get that out. Thank you all for listening. For your strength and wisdom, and humour. It really does help. xx
Grace yeah I get what your saying. I’ve been blaming myself alot. I deeply regret not standing up for myself and getting out early. I should’ve been the dumper.
FedUp
It’s not about going from bashing him to bashing yourself. If you HAD dumped him you’d probably be regretting that instead. Back to basics, this is a self-esteem issue. Most healthy-minded people don’t spend a disproportionately long time obsessing over the end of a relationship. I spent three years obsessing over a relationship that barely lasted a year. It took me over six months of counselling to get back on my feet after ONE outing with the MM which didn’t even include a kiss. You get the picture.
It wasn’t to do with them (how could it be), it was my dissatisfaction with myself and my life. That’s what you need to address – not the woulda, coulda, shoulda of a relationship that was never going to work.
Oh, Grace. Thanks for sharing all that – it’s important to remember how many of us are speaking from experience. I do not want to feel burned about my last bf for 3 years! This is about me and my life: repeat, repeat, repeat.
@grace
you go grace, you’re awesome….obsessing about someone else; their faults, flaws, shady behaviour, etc…yep, totally takes focus on your own dissatisfaction of whatever is not working in your life…phew! that is such a big waste of time I see now!
Nat, I am not sure if you will publish this as it has a tinge of revenge, but as I read all the anguish about being in love with a MM and how they go back to their lives with no consequence, this is not always the case. In my situation, I am the one with the professional power. He has a biz that is failing. I am in a very influential position in the same industry and I have him in a few deals that could save his biz. But now I am chasing him for biz things he needs to do, sign non-disclosures, provide info, instead of chasing him for sex. He still doesn’t return texts, cancels meetings, etc.
After reading these blogs, such sadness and heart break over MM who seem to hold all the cards, I have decided I am not going to help him. Maybe just once in a while they can tangibly lose too. I am not doing anything unethical or negative, I will just quietly stop promoting him to the people who make the decisions. The opportunities will just “go away”. He may never even know why. In the end, he fucked with the wrong woman and it just cost him tens of thousands of dollars, if not hundreds of thousands. Literally. I am not a crazy jilted lover boiling a bunny, this is much sweeter. Sometimes the good guys (or women) do win!!
Oldenough
I wouldn’t promote someone who fails to keep up his end in a business deal either. “Oldnough, that contact you gave me turned out to be really flaky”. It could backfire on you professionally.
If you get to stick it to him for being a cheating twerp, that’s just an added bonus.
I have never understood how people who are shady at their love lives seem to come off as golden in their professional lives. If anything, we learn here that how we handle our relationships is how we handle our relationships – in all aspects of life. If I’m unassertive with men; I’m probably unassertive at work. If he’s two-faced and shifty with women; he’s probably two-faced and shifty in business. My exAC liked to see people squirm, whether it was me or the business buddies he’d bring in to show off to and tease with insider information.
So if you’ve stopped ‘promoting’ him to yourself, seems fair enough to me to stop promoting him to the world around you. Tu ne le supportes plus, c’est tout.
On behalf of this formerly heartbroken though still stuggling and ruminating OW, thank you Oldenough. I don’t think it is a case of revenge or a crazy jilted lover boiling a bunny, nice image though since I’d like to shoot the bunnies that eat my flowers. Rather it could be a case of integration: An adult professional person should not have to chase another adult professional to do their job and a wonderful woman such as yourself should not have to chase somebody for sex.
Pardon the language here, he not only fucked the wrong woman, he fucked himself. He’s dying on his own sword. But do let us know!
In spite of all the focus on myself, in spite of choosing me instead of my Mr. Chaser, I sometimes can’t help but wonder what the fuckery is going on.
Scenario: after almost 7 months of blowing hot and cold, kissing sessions while both were drunk, he pretending nothing happened but keeping a platonic profile (and little me falling in love deeper and deeper…), I took my chance and told him what was going on; got a “no, thanks” as an answer.
Okaaay, I thought, it’s time to lick my wounds and move on; it won’t be easy but no one dies due a broken heart, will it? So I decided to focus on myself and grieve and move forward. He fancied that, so he’s blowing hot again, at least he’s starting to.
Here’s my question, though: how on Earth can someone behave like that? As far as I’m concerned, no means no, it doesn’t mean nay or ni or mah or hmm. My way of thinking, nowadays, is crystal clear: do you want me?, grow up, be a man and then, let’s talk about it; don’t you want me?, fine, I’ll lick my wounds and then move on. But please, stop playing this game, it’s kinda annoying, actually.
Sabrina
Good for you for asking. He said no. Believe him.
If that’s not good enough for you, read through some of the posts here. Your guy is no different to them.
And think about cutting him off. He’s not your friend.
“Here’s my question, though: how on Earth can someone behave like that?” Based on my reading of Natalie’s books, this blog, and my personal experience, Mr. EU’s act like that. You may have hooked another EU. I’ve found that no does mean no if you walk. If you don’t, no means “nay or ni or mah or hmm”. These EUM’s all read from the same play book. My guess is that he won’t grow up and be a man because he’s EU. I’d start licking my wounds if I were you. EU’s are totally annoying. Blowing hot when you start to get it is totally classic EU. Do you want to be his option in the hope that you could one day be promoted? I never got that promotion despite 2 years of being his option while he was my priority. Don’t walk, run.
Hi Grace,
I know he is not my friend: friends do not play with others’ feelings, for instance. I believed him when he said no, he lives into his own world made of bits, bytes and beer (he’s my leader developer, we work at the same workgroup) and indeed I cut him off on what concerns personal stuff, I just look for him if I need something at work.
My point here is why such a behavior *after* taking a damned position: I mean, if I don’t want something I let it go, right? Frick, what am I, his backup plan, his favourite toy, his exotic pet?!
Honest to God, the love I feel for him is turning into something negative; I wouldn’t say hate – I don’t even hate my ex-husband who slapped me in the face, for instance -, but every time we’re together I feel bad, miserable, insecure and this pushes me away from him. Sad, very sad, indeed.
Sabrina, you’re not going out with yourself; you’ve been involved with another human being that is an individual that does things for entirely different reasons. The only thing that matters about what you would do is recognising the disconnect between your characters and values. And then move on.
Yes – that feeling bad and insecure is not because you’re a bad person who should be trying to maintain intimacy and affection, but isn’t, it’s your body telling you that you’re in a spot of danger because your values and expectations are not aligned. Some of the love you have from him is not coming from a tidy place! Stay away.
Sabrina
But you could turn it on its head. He could say “If Sabrina was that bothered she wouldn’t hang out with me. She’s obviously cool with it” So your position isn’t 100% clear either.
We know HE isn’t going to do the decent thing by you, so that’s down to you.
Thank you everyone for your comments reading it about to take a flight. Will heed all your advice… I already know it’s wrong but started to hope for a miracle. Sorry for shirt reply, on the move. Lots of love for your replies xxx
My EUW pops up every couple of months on an online dating site. I wasn’t looking for her, someone told me about it, so I looked. There were our photos (with me thankfully cropped out) from New Years. It made me laugh; I’m sure she will find a guy, have a relationship, and disappear on him too. Then she can start the process over, with new photos, with the new guy cropped out.
Same as it ever was. Glad I am out.
J D that made me howl with laughter! Two words: well shot.
Sabrina, the reason why is because you become unavailable it feeds into the unhealthy dynamic where they want to chase you, but theirnot really interested in you. In every situation and there were quite a few, these guys like clockwork contacted me after i pulled the plug…like nat says to keep their foot in for an ego stroke, attention, sex…whatever. It prevents us from moving forward. I remember they tried to convince me that we could stay friends and because i doubted my instincts i agreed but then i got my head out of the sand…we were never friends. It cracks me up now when i think these so called friends tried to get their private parts back in my pants… Bottom line dont answer.
Grace- I did go to Counselling about it. But she didn’t seem to help at all. She just told me to get over it, just like everyone else. I really expected more than that. Actual tools to get passed it, not just yelling
A counsellor yelled at you to get over it? That’s not a normal counsellor experience and like dating, sometimes it takes a few different counsellors before you find a good fit to proceed with. That counsellor was very inappropriate but don’t let that colour your view of all of them.
Thanks Natalie. Its so frustrating trying to find the right counsellor though, I feel like I’m going around in circles. I feel like giving up.
FedUp: Just because someone trained and earned the title of counselor does not mean that they are actually good at being one. People can fake and pretend to get what they want and later expose their true colours.Keep on searching until you find the fit for you (just as with dating and even with marriage); you may have to try more than a few…but that doesn’t mean that the right ones aren’t out there…there are those who know the rules and those who take their chances and make things up as they wish to as they go along…as with dating follow your gut feelings! Good luck!
i was just cooking and thinking ( yes, yes we women DO think too much ),
i was thinking how much i got crazy ruminating about this man….
i was gooling like crazy to find out WHY he did the things he did…..
google must have laughed about me for sure……googling things like
- how to get your ex back
-did he really love me
-will he come back
bla bla bla
finally stumbled over narcissist sites and later on here
i was obsessed with the thought i NEED to know all the WHYs…..
well……i actually got some answers…..
he HAS narcisstic traits a lot and he IS a player……
but all this googling for answers led me to the point WHY i me myself
needs this validation from him so badly……
WHY do i really want a person like him……
i think the last months were in a way very spiritual and i am not talking about religion……..
i wanted to find myself again so badly……he covered my real sellf and i did
let him do this……i wanted to have this soulmate thing that he claimed we had…….
well…….finally i have MY answers for MY wellbeing…..
most women on here havent experienced this unconditional love from their parents…….and so we are searching for it
for my part my mom died in october and even on her last days i felt she never loved me they way i needed it so badly
so we have this lack inside of us and we try to fill it with the help of another person but the truth is that noone can give us this unconditional love …….only WE can love and respect ourselves the way we realy need it…….
also if we have a good partner that respects us and loves us how its supposed to be……there must be still a selflove….there must be an I and a YOU…….
only if we accept our failures and our trueself then we truely can love another person without falling into dependency on another person……
only we can save us ……
sometimes when i look back how he treated me and wonder how stupid i was…..i have to laugh and sometimes i can still get angry although acceptance is there…….but it gets better every day and i am glad he has gone and i know all this sweet things were nothing more as a fairlytale and very unhealthy……….
i think the only right partnership is when you feel you can be your trueself and the other person accepts you just the way you are on a deep level……but we have to watch out and not fall for…
…..not fall for they lying and sweet words
stay strong ladies…..it gets better every day
Hi girls, thanks for your replies, truly.
I’m afraid I missed a piece of information, here: since his no I put him on the no-friend zone but, unfortunately, we must work together since he’s my leader developer; in fact this is what I mean with “when we’re together”, I wouldn’t dream of going on pursuing him after he clearly stated he doesn’t want a relationship with me. On the other hand *his* behavior annoys me a huge ton, since he fancied I accepted what he said and so I’m working on move forward.
Perhaps you girls are right and for him I’m nothing but a hot Brazilian in the middle of a bunch of Austrians, so someone to add on his list of exotic experiences.
Boy, that sucks.
Hi Fedup
My heart goes out to you. Keep focused on you , make yourself the priority. You will be amazed how that will help. Taking the step to go for you is a wonderful sign of healing
It will get better , time (and no contact) really do help
On the journey to grieve , heal myself , reading , talking to friends and family and self talk (positive affirmation) it led me from one of the worst experiences in my life to the best place I have ever been. “Whatever happens in my life, I will learn from it, I will grow from it and I will find a way to make it enrich my life. ” my daily mantra
Please read Dr. Susan Jeffers book “embracing uncertainty”
Check out website http://www.wellbeingalignment.com
A therapist has to have the right fit . Check out a few until you connect. Its a relationship like every other.
Stay strong, there is lots of light and love at the end of the tunnel !!
take care
Here’s an advice column that may emplain his (or her) “sudden” changes:
http://wayneandtamara.com/thisweek.htm
Today is my first day of NC with the MM since the breakup. We work together, maybe 20 feet away from each other, and I had to sit somewhere else today so he wouldn’t see me cry. For two years we talked every day and said “I love you” before going home, without fail, and today there was none of that. It’s like my whole world has shifted. It’s already a hard road and I know I have more difficulties up ahead.
Right now I’m trying to keep with NC, which isn’t easy, and separate the person he really is with the person I imagined him to be. It’s hard to let go of the a beautiful image I had of us in my head, even if it wasn’t based on much reality. We weren’t Romeo and Juliet – he had a choice, and he didn’t choose us. He WOULDN’T leave, it’s not that he COULDN’T.
My imagination is getting the best of me (see: ruminating) and I can’t stop thinking: is he happier without me? did he magically fall in love with his wife and they’re on their way to a happy marriage? is he hurting as much as I am? is she going to change him when I wasn’t able to and get the best of him?
It hurts even more thinking of the things he said when he ended it (presumably “for the children”): “I’ll always love you, if I didn’t have kids I’d marry you, I’ll always wish we would have had a real chance together, she’ll never make me feel like you have”. It twists the knife that much deeper.
I’ve been reading and rereading BR when I feel like I’m falling apart and all of your comments, support, insight and faith that I’ll pull through this is one of the only things keeping me going in this dark time. Thank you.
Bri
I see you’re still very hooked on what he said. I used to do the same, replaying in my mind things that exes have said. But they are just words. It probably made him feel like a romantic hero for saying them. He liked the effect it had on him and on you. Anyone can say that stuff. In fact, they are EASY to say if there’s no chance of having to back it up.
I could say “I’m a trained surgeon. I’ve performed this complicated procedure a thousand times. I’m an expert.” Terrific at dinner parties, good for impressing the neighbours. But it’s a problem if you give me a scalpel and a patient on a trolley. He KNEW he would never have to prove his words so he happily trotted them out.
One genuine “I love you” from someone who is committed to you and there for you is worth one million from someone who says it and then goes home to another woman. His words are meaningless.
He promised his wife fidelity before the state, his family and her family. Look how that turned out.
Bri,
Your questions of him being a better person now with her, and will she be able to change him, when you couldn’t….for some reason, that really stood out for me today.
I have read most of your comments about this relationship, and as an outside party it seems so clear that the answer is a resounding “No!” I have thought that same thing about so many of the other posts on here as well, when someone worries they are going to miss out on a new and improved version of their ex.
And yet, I have tortured myself with those same questions, too. Maybe it stood out for me today, because after seeing hundreds of posts asking that same question, maybe it took one more for me to realize that none of these men are going to magically morph into something better. It takes a level of commitment and hard work, and frankly, I don’t read ANY information about these guys on here that indicates that kind of self-reflection.
It sounds to me like all your MM did was make the choice that was most convenient for him. He already lives in the house with his wife, they already have kids, and staying would help him avoid dealing with all the guilt of leaving his family. He didn’t choose her out of some noble strength of character. He chose her because he g0t caught. Right now, he’s too scared to act out his philandering tendencies, so he’s lying low until the wife becomes less vigilant. He may have painted a noble picture of his choice to you with his words, but Grace is right, they are just words.
I only say this because I hope that NC will strengthen you, in case he one day decides the coast is clear to cheat again. I sincerely hope by that time that you will see him for who he really is.
I don’t say that lightly. Believe me, I know how powerful those tender words and moments together can be. We all want to feel loved and cherished, and in those moments it can be so powerful that nothing else seems to matter, like the fact that they are married or EU or AC.
This is your time now, to step back and see things as they really are.
Hi Bri, I feel I need to weigh in again especially as I worked with my ex that had the girlfriend. Here’s the thing:
1) It’s not a breakup of the relationship you wanted; it’s the breakup of an affair. You miss the I love you’s but the truth is, the man was all shirt, no trousers. You’re grieving the promises that never came true.
2) You have no choice but to get real – you cannot hold someone accountable for your imagination. I’m reminded of one of my favourite Adele lyrics “I’d hoped you’d see my face and be reminded that for me, it isn’t over”. I’ve lived that a thousand times with the office guy. Fact is, if it’s over for him, it’s over for you. All he has to offer is fringes – he has made his choice. Respect it.
3) He’s always been married. You’re assuming he was as miserable as you were in the affair. Fact is, he couldn’t have been *that* out of love with her. He never left and let’s be real, it doesn’t take Sherlock Holmes to work out that this man is reacting to the responsibilities he has and some of the inadequacies that may surround that, by having an affair with you. He wanted to escape his problems but he doesn’t want to *leave* his problems. How you could expect to change a man that was never yours in the first place for you to ever be in a position of changing him is beyond me. You’ve also inadvertently admitted to something that you normally dodge – Wanting to change someone is acknowledgement in itself that the person they are isn’t what you want or acceptable. Yet again, you have proved you don’t want him.
4) He didn’t end it for the children; he ended it for himself. I’m tired of children being blamed – if he was doing it for the kids, he wouldn’t have been with you in the first place. An attached man can only love you in a limited way and is being emotionally dishonest to give you the little he can. I’m sure he does wish you could have had a real chance – he never gave you one. She could never make him feel like he has because he’s not having an illicit affair. It’s not ‘exciting’ to be a husband, father to three kids, two of whom are disabled. He wants the excitement without the responsibility.
He’s not the one twisting the knife – you are. Another person that was seeing through his BS would blaze right through it. It’s you layering on your imagination and feelings and using what he said to massacre yourself. Stop twisting the knife. He’s married. He’s a liar. His situation never changed which means nothing has changed other than that he’s been found out. Real life has intervened. It is one thing for him to lie to you, but don’t continue to lie to yourself. It’s been ONE day out of SIX years – of course it hurts. But it does get better. But first comes pain. Hugs, Natalie
“It’s not ‘exciting’ to be a husband, father to three kids, two of whom are disabled. He wants the excitement without the responsibility.”
l could not help it but to compare it with most common situation in life. Lets say l have to complete really difficult task and lm working from home. So to kind of “ease” and “balance” the heaviness l feel, l go to fridge, and crab a thing or two to eat. Or, evening, a glass of wine. Makes me feel good and takes the heaviness off for a while. Then l go back to work on task. Task is hard and heavy, but l know l have to complete it, because in my life it is very important task, and although the heaviness it takes, in some ways my life depend on it. So, another peek to fridge. I tell myself: I should stop doing this because it is a)unhealthy for my figure and b) in the perfect world, l should really concntrate on finishing the task, but you see, l want both – to peek the fridge and see whats in there and limbo with the deadline of my task, until its getting to a critical state, when l no longer CAN go grab something from the fridge, because my boss would fire me otherwize.
If someone only could lock my fridge….
Amen!
Great analogy!!
NML
It’s funny, but I did it too, wonder why the MM wasn’t behaving like a proper boyfriend.
“My boyfriend’s switched on me! He used to be such a great guy, he told me he loved me ALL THE TIME. He said we would always love me. Always!We had so much in common. What’s gone wrong?!”
“Have you talked to him about it? How long has it been like this? Do you think it’s serious?”.
“I’ve no idea! Something terrible must have happened! I must be doing something wrong. Maybe he’s having a quarter life crisis. It’s so weird! Maybe we should go to counselling”
“Wow it must be really hard for you. I went through a bad patch with my boyfriend, but we had a real heart-to-heart and now he doesn’t take me for granted anymore.”
“I’ve tried talking to him, but it’s like he’s not listening. He ignores my texts, doesn’t return my calls, I hardly ever see him”.
“Sounds like you need to think about breaking up”
“Oh, I don’t need to do that. You see, he’s married, he just needs to leave his wife. And kids.”
“Brilliant, glad it’s not serious! These affairs with married men always turn out well”
Hey all, I’m still with Bri, grieving the promises that didn’t come true. I know rationally you are all correct, way more than correct. God dammit, he told me he loved me, couldn’t live without me, and couple faked. We had our wine, our house at the beach, and our wonderful moments my backyard. That was all a lie? I guess, for me, that’s the hardest thing to accept. He was lying to me and I bought his lies. Worse than accepting the fact that he lied to me is the fact that I lied to me. I knew he was married and left my bed to go to bed with his wife. Well, shoot. “Stop twisting the knife. He’s married. He’s a liar. His situation never changed which means nothing has changed other than that he’s been found out. Real life has intervened. It is one thing for him to lie to you, but don’t continue to lie to yourself.” Bri, if you are there, I know it is difficult to accept we’ve been lied to and even worse, we’ve lied to ourselves. Natalie, thank you for response to Bri. You’ve so summed up being the OW no matter if it’s me or another OW. It’s just hard to accept being lied to. I cannot even begin to imagine how it must feel to be the betrayed wife. Sorry, I’m just rehashing and venting. Bottom line: I was lied to and I lied to myself. Bri, you will get there. So sorry for us. So sorry for their wives. Thank you Natalie for providing a safe, healing harbor. I’m getting there, albiet ever so slowly and fighting getting there. Don’t fight it Bri.
Hi Nat, thanks so much for your reply the other day when I was feeling very low. I took your advice and starting to write out my feelings and while I still haven’t figured out what triggered the sadness I’m feeling a whole lot better. I plan on keeping a journal, I think it will help.
Best to you & your family, Mary
I couldn’t imagine the ex AC not being in my life, after 2 years. He blew hot and cold, disappeared, came back, changed his mind..on and on. He went on holiday for week (supposedly alone) and I realised what a mug I’d been. He wouldn’t talk about feelings or our relationship, so I sent him an angry text ( wrong I know- but it did make me feel a whole lot better) then went NC and it was hard. I work from home, so had more time to think about him, but I decided I had to move on for my sake . I spent endless hours (when I should have been working) wondering what happened, imagining him with someone else (he had lots of women who were ‘just friends’ – maybe that’s what he said about me too), the whole coulda, woulda, shoulda. Thanks to NML and all you ladies, I realised he wasn’t unique, just a typical AC and he’s really not worth my time. Recently I visited a clairvoyant with friends (I’m not in the habit of doing this!) not expecting much from her. Amazingly she told me there was a man in my life who although not a bad person, is ‘wrapped up’, feels no emotion, is a bit shady and has been hiding something from me -and that he’s not meant for me . This may sound stupid, but that sealed it for me and I’ve stuck to NC and getting on with my life. I doubt I’ll hear from him again. Its futile to wonder how someone can be like that. He just is.
Some women on here say their MMs or Eums let them down again and again and they take them back again and again…..just like i did myself….but i wonder what we would thrink of a man with which we would break up with several times in very mean ways and this man would keep crawling back and begs us to take him back…….i never looked at it vice versa but reality is better than rose coloured glasses…..it looks desperate and i guess i would feel pity for that man…..sigh
@simone71
“but i wonder what we would think of a man with which we would break up with several times in very mean ways and this man
would keep crawling back and begs us to take him back…….”
It’s bad enough declining unwanted advances from guys, especially those who beg and even try to propose (with tears streaming down their face) when you’ve never dated them! [cringe]
I had no intention of breaking up and then taking back my (2nd) ex as you described. Once I’m in, I’m in with both feet.
However at the beginning of our relationship (having moved on from dating for 6 months) he laid down his boundaries saying “you got to make up your mind, don’t be a boomerang, no too-ing and fro-ing with me, I won’t take you back if you left”.
Fair enough but it was such a shame as soon as I committed to him he blew hot then cold *sigh* [rolls eyes]
a few months ago i started dating a guy … the relationship got very intense very quickly. within a few weeks he had told me he loved me, paraded me around in front of his friends and family … he was moving away for work and asked me to join him … i agreed … i thought i was ‘in love’…
when i got there things had changed. completely. he had begun working these crazy hours … it was like he had undergone a personality transplant. when i saw him he was usually moody, irritable, sullen … very nitpick-y. we spent virtually no time together … i was lucky to get a half an hour of his time a day and even during those time he often didn’t want to talk. soon it began to dawn on me that i was practically alone in a strange country … i began to feel depressed and homesick. i felt like an unwanted accessory of his, i felt i was losing my identity. however i desperately wanted the guy i had in the beginning back, i hoped for change.
this went on for a while until one day he told me that he wanted me to go home that i was too ‘needy/insecure’ and that he couldn’t deal with me that he needed space. after that he disappeared pretty much for a few days … then i get a text telling me that he’s booking me a flight for the next day and that if i wanted our relationship to work i had to be on it … ‘ok’ i thought. i start packing my stuff. he doesnt come home until 6am … drunk and passes out while im trying to talk to him. i have to then wake him up at 9am the time he told me to be ready at to help me bring my suitcases to the bus (thats right he wouldn’t even take me to the airport). he got up and brought me to the bus stinking of alcohol, hungover and half dressed. pathetically i still thought things could work.
until i got to the airport. there i decided that the man he was in the beginning didn’t exist because if he did i wouldnt be in this situation now. i called him to break up. it was heartbreaking.
it was the most humilating thing that has happened to me in my life … having to go home to my friends and family and have to explain to them that i was ‘sent’ home … like a child after being expelled from boarding school. i cried for weeks.
its hard to come to terms with that change … so i can relate to a lot of the women here… it’s hard not to overthink when the person you thought you ‘loved’ turns out to be someone…
Winter..what a jerk! Makes some of my ac/eu look like angels(not all though lol). There goes that ‘needy’ word again. Here you are in a strange place where you know noone and he wants to call you ‘needy’? That whole thing just sounds mean. I sympathize with you about having to face friends and family. Good luck to you.
What an awful experience! I am sorry you went through that. But, seriously, these stories follow such a classic pattern. If only our brains worked like detectives, picking up clues, though that would, in fact, be pretty dull. Anyway, we know better now. When entering a relationship, you need both don’t you: the excitement and brave vulnerability, while also remaining rational and grounded. Don’t be too hard on yourself, Winter. What you went through was humiliating, to some degree, but also so horrible and crazy of him that no reasonable outsider would think of shaming you for it. You shouldn’t either. He was obviously hoping he could be the person he presented himself as, then got angry and spiteful when he realised – yet again, I am sure -that he couldn’t.
omg. last night the exEUM/AC called me, caught me off guard from unfamiliar number, and I caught him in a HUGE lie within 1 minute. I just started laughing — honestly! it’s been 6+ months since we talked. I was so shocked it was him, instantly was trying to think of everything from Baggage Reclaim, for what to say. when I saw the #, I asked what it was, I didnt recognize. He told me it was a calling card. but the area code was from a nearby county in my state (we were in a LDR). and then I realized — omg, he is here, visiting his elderly Mom, 1 hour away, and he doesn’t want me to know he’s here. Right away I continued asking about the #. Could he be that frigging clueless that he didn’t remember I had his mother’s #? while he was awkwardly blah-blahing, I looked it up. when I had the proof, I confronted him. Then he just folded. It was pathetic. It was so uncomfortable. He had no excuses for this, or any of his behavior over the last year, admitted to having a bad conscience about it all — to which I said, yes, you should have. he was just acting like a very guilty, ashamed person. I made another request to get my stuff back, to which he again promised to return. He said he had a terrible year, and he is just trying to sort his s*** out. Still “very separated”, divorce not final (got involved after sep & moved out). anyway, I didnt ask bout any details. His 90yr old mother just had a big operation and is not doing well. It was all so — sad. I just have to know… why does The Universe do this, just the very instant you make a leap of progress — it throws you a big test, and completely tips you off balance? I did fine in the conversation, wasn’t a doormat, didnt get emotional — but I wasn’t the Fortress of Strength & Impenetrable Boundaries either. I didnt do what Natalie suggested somewhere — just right away say “why are you calling? what do you want?”. I guess it was5 good to see his true colors, this is who he really is… not that wonderful & true sweetheart from the beginning. he’s dishonest. and spineless. his “Love” was BS, just like all the Future Faking. He’s “Mr. SuperDad” and used his kids as an excuse to bail. it it possible someone can be that disingenuous in his love life, and be a model of integrity to his children? the advice NML gives above about the MM is so right on target. I could have done without this call. I…
Anoosh, GOOD FOR YOU!! Doesn’t it feel good to take control like that?! Mine wasn’t married (or divorced/faux-separated, etc.), but I know how hard it can be to be logical and keep your boundaries intact when they get back in touch. Interestingly enough, mine was always having a “terrible year” too. I also had a problem getting things back. I left a sweater of great sentimental value (gift from my very much beloved grandmother right before she died) at his house and he refused to send it to me even after I told him how much it meant to me. Yours was right to sound guilty and ashamed…he’s an ass.
I am so happy for you – it sounds like you are well on your way to living a much happier and more fulfilling life
well… thx Natasha
. I hope I’m on my way!! but… don’t know how well I am doing with everything, truthfully. and I wish I could have been a helluva lot stronger on the phone. I didn’t rush off after his lie was exposed. in a way I couldn’t avert my attention from listening to his reaction — and that isn’t being “moved on”, that’s still engaging. for some reason he brought up that his elderly mom had been a Freudian analyst, I couldn’t help throwing in “wow, I’d love to hear her insights about this one”. I was actually laughing — but was it out of anxiety? “omg, you just were SO busted! did you think you were actually going to get this over on a woman from the big city? ooh… this is sooo going in my act”. all just jokes — but why was I the one trying to make it less uncomfortable? ugghhh. well, at least I didn’t cry. and I did say some good stuff. not “telling him all about himself”, but I was being authentic, and not trying to hide how difficult the experience has been for me.
certainly I’ve come a long way, or at least part of the way, in the last 6 months. but it still makes me sad. sad that in all these years I was never able to overcome whatever issues I have that prevented me from finding a loving partner to go through life with and have a family — or that no loving emotionally available guy fell for me, b/c I really do not believe that I was incapable of committing to someone, I know I wanted that more than anything. I didn’t turn anybody down because they seemed “too nice” — all the EU guys were super nice and loving for the most part. it’s just there was always this other side I failed to pick up on. and I never broke anyone’s heart, or rejected in mean way. I really really tried. for 25+ years of dating, heartbreak, every pop-psychology book, plenty of time in therapy, extensive journal writing for 15 years, long periods of singledom… and sitting here at 46, the only man I’ve been with in 6 years, the only one in my whole history who ever expressed wanting to spend our lives together — just lied to my face (well, ears) about being near where I live. he effectively ended the relationship when he came here last summer for 2 weeks, was supposed to phone — and never called. just sent me some of my clothes in a box, with no note, and vanished for the rest of the summer. I feel pretty numb right now (better…
Anoosh, in my humble opinion you are most definitely on your way
He pulled the old call from a different number trick (When will people learn that if someone doesn’t want to pick up the phone when they know it’s you on the other end, tricking them into picking up the phone is not going to make them magically want to talk to you? Like, “Oh, I thought you were a total fool…but alas, I see that the number you are calling from is different and the surprise of hearing your voice has caused me to see you in a whole new light….like we’re meeting for the first time.” Seriously. Why do people do this? I digress.) and I’d say for a Phone Sneak Attack, you held your own! I mean, considering how things ended, it’s not like this is a person you’re thrilled to speak to (see above) – I say…WELL (and authentically) PLAYED!!
Natasha, you crack me up. So true about calling from another number!
And Anoosh, yeah, it feels sucky to wish you had been more polished on the phone with him – (I’m still shaking my head at a recent work interview where I did fine until she asked about my ex-boyfriend – and I realized how I had brought the story into my worklife – but then TOLD her stuff that made it clear it’s not ‘nothing’ to me yet, ugh!!) – but really – it’s being human and the most important thing is not letting a feeling of “I could have handled that better, wish I had been super-teflon” turn into “oh, I’m not doing very well at this getting over him thing at all! I’m lost!”
I think we can all relate to feeling “why me? what is it about me?” when someone seems to think they can get away with lies and disrespect; but really don’t let it be about you! He called you and showed his nature – don’t make it into a feeling about yourself!
I agree with Natasha. You were authentic and it’s not like you decided to invite him over for a shag once you discovered he was in the area! Good job.
Anoosh,
I’m so proud of you. I know exactly where you’re coming from, as my MM just recently ended it with me “for the kids”. Natalie gave me some great advice: they’re using their children as scapegoats, as an excuse to not feel guilty about leaving their family behind. Plenty of men have fallen in love with someone else and gotten divorced, but still been great dads. We don’t know what goes on in the house of an MM – he tells us what he wants us to know. Right now, I have to choose to believe that he isn’t in love with his wife and is only staying for the kids because the alternative is too painful for me to accept.
Think about it: if they are this dishonest with us, it’s highly unlikely they’re the pillars of integrity in other aspects of their lives. I’ve been beating myself up over this “staying for the kids” thing as I just don’t get it – I could be a great mother, we could have a happy household and divorce doesn’t mean surrendering your role as a parent. But WE CAN’T CONTROL THEM. We also have no idea how dishonest they really are. I know my MM had genuine feelings for me, but I also know he needed an escape from the reality of three kids (two of whom are special needs) and a marriage he felt trapped in. He hid from his responsibilities instead of owning up to them, and didn’t sort things out the way a real man should. REAL MEN MAKE DECISIONS AND LIVE WITH THE CONSEQUENCES. Playing all sides of the field isn’t mature, or morally right, and it hurts people. I’m very hurt, and I can tell you are too. These men are cowards.
I hope one day to get to the point you are, even if you feel like you’ve let yourself down. I’m still pining away, hoping for him to come back even though I know he’s unhealthy for me. If you can’t see it, at least someone else can – you did a great job and should feel good about your progress.
Bri, I belive, that MM does not sit down in sofa and think: well, here is a plan to fool Bri for 2 years, and get something out of it. No. For or x amount of years, noone would actually bother.
It speaks about something else, and l think its this: like Natalie has said before, a real man would get his act together and sort his life out first, THEN going for the next step. Like business plan – you want this to work, you have to make sure, every step is fully researched and calculated.
It´s not just relationship – his whole life and mindset is in order. We talk about married men who fool us, or if he only could divorce, life would be rosy. But there is already a flaw, because their mindset applies to any other part of their life, and flankly, at the end of the day, thats not attractive and thats not what we want.
Bri, your MM was probably one of the “fridge peekers, ” who might have also said, that his life is a mess in general and he is oh-how-unhappy, and *you are the only light in his days*. He didn´t only “fool” you, but also his wife and kids and himself. He was not a happy man in general. A happy man would not have done this. And belive, there are hot, attractive guys, who would NEVER cheat their wives, because they have their act together IN GENERAL. You deserve someone like this caliber.
Yes, there are MM who fall in love and divorce, but statistically, it´s a very small number.
So the best revenge to get clear, is to make sure, first, that he isnt going to come peeking around your “fridge” no more. If you work with him in the same room, well, it might have happen again. By now, tho, you should know already that there is NO CHANGE in his behaviour.
Your next step, instead, should be thinking BIG about Your Life!
example:
-Did you want to open a beauty saloon?
-Did you want to visit Africa?
-Did you want to take pilates lessons, or rather…well… pilot lessons?
-Or something along the lines like…OMG l´ve never tried THIS, but l should!!
What it does is that it shifts you slowly to a happier place and get excitement about your life, so that one day you see the difference and think how much you would have missed if you stayed in prison for MM.
Bri
I hope you don’t think I’m picking on you, but you’re still living in a fantasyland:
“I could be a great mother, we could have a happy household”. It’s hard work being a mother, never mind a step mother to children who, if they’re a bit older, will hate you for at least a year. If he left his wife and turned up on your doorstep with three children, you’re not suddenly going to morph into a great mother with a happy household. Also his wife won’t step back and let you take over her kids. Even the most self-sacrificing woman is going to have a problem with that.
And while divorced parents can still maintain a good relationship with their kids, divorce is traumatic for children. When I was teaching, a pupil who used to be an angel, started playing up really badly. The head told me his parents were getting divorced then added “they get like that when their parents split up”.
You rarely grab someone else’s man and skip off without consequences – for you, for him, for his ex and/or his kids. Even Angelina Jolie’s reputation is tarnished though she “won”.
The issue isn’t just him being a tosser, and it isn’t just his wife being a dragon (and I doubt she is) , it’s partly you too, fuelling this with your frustrated hopes and desires.
There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be a wife and mother but you’d get your life in order first. And then find a man who can actually give you that without having to stab his wife in the back first. You still have PLENTY of time to do that if you dont’ sink any more years into this affair.
I keep throwing these reality checks at you in a blunt way because I’ve been there myself and it always turned out badly, to say the least. Someone even died (not as a direct consequence but it didn’t help). I don’t know if I’d have listened to someone telling me the harsh truth, but I’m saying it anyway in case you or anyone else here in your situation can take it on board. It’s not to make you feel bad. We must realise the reality before we can get out of our predicament. Otherwise, we just keep fuelling it with our obsession.
I strongly feel that a big part of the OW’s motivation (or maybe I just speak for myself) is the need to prove ourselves by overcoming a difficult situation. But feeling good about yourself has to come from within. Then we don’t feel the need to get into these “relationships”.
What I find really funny is the dynamics…when you are on your own healing mission and finding your way and getting back on track with your new and improved life, they have this weird radar that senses “something is not right” and they come sweeping in and try to rattle your cage!
Its takes so much courage and strength to turn them down…but hell its so liberating when you do. If it wasn’t for BR and reading all the insightful articles I would probably have fallen for all the old tricks!
Thank you Natalie and BR! I am eventually “getting it”