If you’ve ever stood (or sat) around waiting for somebody who is late, you will understand how frustrating and downright awkward this can be, especially when they either don’t warn you that they’re going to be late or they have a habit of being late on the regular. Equally, if you are typically late and have received flack for it, you may struggle to understand what the problem is. From your end of things, you might feel that there are genuine reasons for your lateness or that people make an unnecessarily big deal out of it.
A friend of mine was recently kept waiting for four hours. Yes, you did read that correctly. Four feckin hours. That is far beyond the bounds of acceptability. My first thought was, What’s so special about this guy that you’d circle around Victoria station for a few hours while he hung out in the pub with his mates?
We know when we’re going to be fifteen minutes late. Someone who is four hours late knew this sometime between one and two hundred and forty minutes before they decided that they would bother to show up.
The way that you feel about and deal with timekeeping is really a matter of values. Namely your personal (core) values, the ones that speak for your character.
Sure, there will be people who will argue up and down about how culture has its part to play in the acceptability of lateness. We can all, however, think of generalisations that are made about cultures and races that are not actually true of the people we encounter from these.
It’s not that things don’t happen and that none of us can ever be late, but how we typically treat time does say a lot about how much we respect other people’s time as well as our own.
People who don’t really care about keeping people waiting or disrupting their schedules have an over-inflated sense of their own importance. When did common courtesy die a death? In an age where you could almost say that we’re over-connected, how the hell can a person fail to notify us that they’re going to be late when we have mobile phones, texts, email, Facebook, WhatsApp, IM, Skype, Twitter, Instagram, and the list goes on?
We’ve got to quit with this bullsh*t, super busy malarkey. Habitual lateness (super late people) is just an extension of this whole carrying on as if we’re busier than a world leader. No, we’re not!
When we don’t respect and value our own time (boundaries), we over-promise ourselves in the name of pleasing and fear of saying no. We wind up malnourished in the self-care department. We also don’t acknowledge that our concept of how long it’s going to take to do something or get somewhere is inaccurate.
Habitually late people have an element of passive aggression in there, and some will have people pleasing in there too. Most habitual passive aggressives will not own up to their behaviour because they have a carefully constructed framework of truth that they feel legitimises their habits.
Let’s, though, think about what the habitually late do:
- They tell you what they think you want to hear.
- They don’t know how to own their behaviour, either because they like the image of themselves being punctual (even if intentions don’t materialise into actions) or because they’re afraid of conflict.
- When people do express their rightful annoyance at their timekeeping, some see it as green-lighting their concerns about honesty. e.g. See! This is why I didn’t say anything. Look at how they’re reacting.
- Some agree on the time and then show at the time that they always intended to.
- Some are very dismissive of any concerns. The stories I hear of name-calling, mocking, and arguments related to calling out people on tardiness are unreal! “Uptight” seems to be a favourite.
- When someone flags their tardiness, they make temporary amendments and then slide back into old habits.
There’s also one other particular reason for lateness that has a significant part to play: People pleasers are often unwittingly transactional and as such, on some level, believe that they’re building up credit.
Even if a habitually late person (who is also engaging in people pleasing in some other aspect of their life) recognises that they’re out of order for being late, on some level they rationalise that because they do [whatever the pleasing is] this gives them credits to be late. They might reason, for instance, that they do a lot of good deeds. Sure, that’s great, but that doesn’t mean that people should pay for that with their lateness. Also, the pleaser may not be acknowledging that there’s underlying resentment about some of their pleasing and overgiving that manifests in their tardiness.
Habits are based on associations that become cues and triggers for us to think, feel and act.
Whether we’re super punctual, on time, or habitually tardy, if we trace our way back, there are specific reasons and associations that we have.
Some people remember how awful it felt to watch others keep people waiting or to be the person who was kept waiting. For example, my father would sometimes show up days late. And some people discovered that they can control others with their timekeeping. It’s a form of rebellion that lets them play out the resentment they’re masking. This means that a habit may have been formed to get back at someone else in their past and then it became their default. They haven’t realised how it’s not working for them when they, for instance, keep pushing the boundaries with the time they show up at work.
Some people observed other tardy folk and it became learned behaviour. It might even have become a coping mechanism for dealing with an environment with little or no time boundaries. Some people actually like this idea of being the Last One To Show Up.
Whether we stress about being late or being kept waiting, or we’re not that fussed about being punctual or about who we keep waiting, some of the clues to why are in our past. It’s our emotional baggage. We may not be differentiating between it and the present.
What we do or we don’t accept in terms of our own timekeeping and that of others is personal. So what’s OK for one person or a particular relationship isn’t going to work for another.
Late person + Late person = similar wavelengths
Punctual + Late person = problems
When it’s only our own time we’re messing with, we’re free to do with it what we want, although we’re not free of the consequences of not taking care of our time.
If you’re a very punctual person, this habit is handy. It can, however, also be a source of stress if you keep trying to make habitually late people change or you keep showing up on time for the late person. It becomes a passive-aggressive power struggle that can really shake your confidence and stoke resentment. Halt.
We have a few friends and relatives who must have been born late. We either tell them that it starts earlier than it does or we don’t make any arrangements that are dependent on them.
If you’re habitually late, try to consider other people’s positions (empathy) as well as the commitments that you’re making.
Get familiar with your habits and acknowledge any passive aggression lurking beneath, no matter how small.
Be more realistic with your time and give as much notice as possible so that people have a chance to adjust their schedule. Or, yes, reschedule yourself. Only say yes to what you can stick to.
If you find that you’re very stressed by your own timekeeping due to fear of being late or you want to unearth clues to your tardiness, get a piece of paper or journal and list any memories of you (or others) being late. Or maybe it was feeling controlled by someone else’s schedule or feeling that you were in control of a person via your timekeeping. These are the associations driving your habits. Examine any that hold an emotional charge for you (strong positive or negative reaction) so that you can evolve beyond the past. These old habits can cause you to act, think and feel small. You can explore your relationship with timekeeping in more depth with my free audio series, The Emotional Baggage Sessions.
Of course, tardiness is annoying to be on the receiving end of, and it can feel very personal. Still, if we recognise that it’s their habit, not a missile created for and aimed at us, we can find ways to protect ourselves from being significantly inconvenienced.
Your thoughts?
Are you ready to stop silencing and hiding yourself in an attempt to ‘please’ or protect yourself from others? My book, The Joy of Saying No: A Simple Plan to Stop People Pleasing, Reclaim Boundaries, and Say Yes to the Life You Want (Harper Horizon), is out now.
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OMG talk about a huge pet peeve of mine. There was a lady I recently quietly stopped hanging out with for this very reason. She wasn’t always late, but the times she was it was so outrageously tone-deaf. One time she organized a birthday brunch and sent everyone emails telling us we MUST be there at 11 am sharp because the restaurant would not sit anyone unless we were all there. She even sent a text message reminder that morning again saying no CP time, everyone PLEASE be there on time its so important. Would you believe this woman was the last person to arrive, and by 30 minutes? She didn’t even bother letting us know that she was held up. The worst part was her friends didn’t know each other, so we all stood there for half an hour in the tiny restaurant lobby with no chairs, waiting for her and marveling. I even texted her “I can’t believe you’re late!” And she responded with a sad-face. When she showed up, she acted like it was a cute thing to do. I personally thought it was shameless to harass people (and she wasn’t joking when she told us to be there on time) then show up 30 minutes late yourself.
Good for you for cutting that person out of your life! That behaviour is demonstrably toxic.
This post got me thinking about what would happen if, instead of making excuses and managing down expectations, EUs told the truth. Respectful people say things like, “I’m sorry I am late – it’s because I did not leave the house on time; it was my own lack of attention to what time it was. I apologize.”
It got me thinking… what would cause me to respect my EU? If he walked up to me and said:
1.I couldn’t offer you what you wanted or deserved.
2.You were right to cut things short and step back.
3.If you hadn’t done that, I would have continued to use you for therapy/attention.
4.I made excuses as to why I couldn’t spend time with you or make plans.
5.I was selfish and dealing with my breakup.
6.I’m not very mature and I was not well equipped to be in a relationship with you.
7.I wanted you to keep your needs and expectations to yourself so we could continue to focus on my black hole of an ego.
8.I pursue younger women because they are not demanding and have low expectations that I can meet – at least for awhile.
9.I don’t know what I want and that’s my problem to solve.
10.At least you were honest about what you wanted and how you felt – I couldn’t even do that much.
I have no expectation this will ever happen but I made this list and thought, Wow, I’d respect him if he said that. I wouldn’t take him back – but I sure would respect him for acknowledging his behavior. All of those things are true and just typing them out made me feel clear and light. I love the unsent letter exercise where we write out our view of what happened – maybe this is like the letter you deserve to get from them? A letter that helps provide that closure? I don’t know… but it sure felt good to write this list! Thanks for another great post!
I suppose if your EU were capable of admitting or acknowledging any of those things, your EU wouldn’t be emotionally unavailable!! To have the self-honesty and self-awareness to say these things usually indicates someone who, if not totally available, is consciously working through availability issues!
That’s the annoying problem with these types – they do not appear able to acknowledge the nasty, and sometimes devastating, consequences of their behavior.
Nailed it!
Alas alack! I know a savvy assclown who can say all the right things. And his actions and words never match up. So, hearing the words coming from them doesn’t really make a difference. I think that what matters most is that you say these things to yourself and YOU believe and trust in YOU.
I found this to be a healing exercise for all the reasons you cite. Hearing this from my own brain means I don’t need to hear it from him.
I come from a family which is pretty chaotic, and was brought up to think it somehow funny to be flakey, unreliable and have no boundaries.
Luckily, I pulled myself up by the bootstraps when I realised how rude and inconsiderate being habitually late really is – I’m not talking about the few minutes which might be caused by difficulty finding a parking space, say – but a total lack of caring about the other person.
I realised that a guy I was dating was probably not going to be anything other than that after he’d left me waiting on the sea front for 20 minutes on a really foul day – rain coming in horizontally, wind speeds of 50 mph, all that – then turned up with a smile “How can you ever forgive me? (Ha ha ha!)” I responded, calmly, that I did actually feel messed about, and that I didn’t like it. He told me later that he’d felt really shocked by my response, and that the reason he’d been late was because he’d been tidying his flat so that it was in a fit state for me to visit, and that I should appreciate that.
As I say, I realised it wouldn’t be lasting long between us …
My ex was habitually late when we had plans. Apologised & repeated the same behaviour. I expressed that I felt he didn’t think my time was valuable (unlike his of course!) but nothing changed. Turns out that was just the tip of the iceberg for his unreasonable disrespectful behaviour. I later found out he’d been frequenting prostitutes regularly…..and I’m quite sure he wasn’t late for his “appointments” with them and probably late for our plans due to them! His lateness is the least of his worries clearly & now I’m free!
ExAssclown always arrived late. He would text or call with varying excuses. Some were obvious ridiculous lies. Now, when he got the impression I was done with that BS, miraculously, his clock started working well, but that was temporary until he felt a few timely arrivals erased his prior behaviour and he’d resume his disrespectful behaviour. There’s a fine line between being flexible for situations that can cause tardiness occasionally. But being expectwd to be a doormat is unacceptable. Ain’t got time for that!
In my career (any career really) the fastest way to get nowhere is to disrespect people’s time and being late is the most blatant way. It is so disrespectful in friendships/dating as well. I distinctly recall a woman who was pursuing a friendship with me. She was exactly 15 minutes late to everything we planned and acted as though the Universe caused her to be late. True to form, she was late to my birthday lunch. I ended up leaving before she was done eating as to not be late to my prior engagements (I wasn’t).
Time is one of the most valuable of our resources. Someone who is keen on wasting theirs or yours is not someone who cares enough.
I remember my ex being 40 minutes late and when I wouldn’t leave with him he acted as though he had seen a ghost. He had done this with women before and I was the first to have said anything. Which is quite bizarre to me.
I know a few attractive, thoughtful men, but the thing is you will never meet them if you allow your time to be wasted via inconsiderate people.
Smilin’
Wow. That’s quite the extracurricular activity. Geez. I’m glad you found out & got away. If I have learned anything from life, it’s you got to take the time to get to know people and heed the warnings when all signs point to GET OUT. Yikes.
Oh yes… I don’t mind people being late if they say so!! What I can’t stand are the late ones who don’t say anything. I had 2 exes who were late without saying anything. Calling and questioning the first one was met with some bs and excuses. The second had excuses galore from traffic, failing to realise I have a phone and can check traffic, leaving the house late and all this other bs. I hate being late but I have the decency to say I will be late.
Lack of courtesy and respect indeed.
The Western US version of this is to say you’ll be there at such and such a time and just plain not show up. This was after folk had said that I could always ask them for help, depend on them, yada, yada. It feels like a giant f@#$ you. Incredibly annoying, time wasting, and if it involves a stuck car, potentially dangerous. On occasion, I am late, generally because of unforseen circumstances like critters getting loose. I always apologize and to do so (be late) is rare. For stuff like dates, chores are done well in advance to avoid possible time conflicts and travel times have a healthy cushion in case of road construction. Yep, there is “Indian Time” meaning you get there when you get there but that’s for stuff such as feasts, pow wows, events where no one is kept waiting for you. To chronically keep folk waiting is either because the person doesn’t care or their life is a disaster they never get out the door in time. Trauma Man was this way; could never plan ahead.
“…if their life is a disaster, they never get out the door in time.” Yes. Exactly! (finger pointing at moi) The problem of course arises when you assume that everyone is aware of your personal disaster *and* you have the unfortunate habit of expecting a free pass based on that assumption.
I have had simple time boundaries for ages. I am usually on time, or within 5 minutes, early or late.
I figure if people can make it to the airport on time to board a plane, they are familiar with the concept.
Otherwise punctuality is on a case by case basis.
When I agree to meet friends at a movie, if it starts at 8 I am seated at 8, and they can look for me. Parties- who cares if it’s between 8 and 9? If I am making dinner, be on time, damn it, I might be serving a souffle.
Dates? I will wait up to 30 minutes if they let me know they are running late. If they don’t, I wait 15 minutes and that’s it. Same with friends.
I find people who habitually keep others waiting usually have other bad social habits as well.
I am not a stern, lecturing assclown about it, but I believe punctuality shows character and consideration, so I try to be on time and I appreciate that trait in others.
Thanks Karen, some sound practical advice which I will try out myself i.e. 30 minutes if made known, 15 minutes if not to include find me in the movie theatre. Total inconvenience either way though…
Once and first time round though and not letting such be an occasional thing that I put into practice for the late comers (friends, family or otherwise). If one is not there either way I will go off and do something else before returning home…
Karen
In my work it’s mandatory to turn up on time for meetings and any sessions re in house computer programming training. There is no such thing as being late if you are in the building because you know about said meeting etc.
If you are late more than once and have no good excuse, one’s upper manager will have a talk to find out what is wrong and why everyone else can turn up on time – except you!
I do know a few people who are chronically late due to their being ‘busier than a world leader’ (what a crock of sh**) and I don’t make arrangements to meet them any more and other friends don’t bother either. If they know something is happening, movie, lunch, dinner or another activity that starts at a specific time and everyone else is there on time, we all start without the chronic latecomers. Too bad so sad if no one is there when they turn up – late as usual.
If I’m meeting someone they get 10-15 minutes and if they haven’t contacted me to say they have been held up, then I leave and let’s face it, who doesn’t have a mobile phone these days.
My time is equally valuable and if someone doesn’t respect that I don’t bother with them any longer. This is another facet of Nat’s ‘one shot, keep it simple’ philosophy. If someone gets away with disrespecting you in any way more than once it’s time to FLUSH.
I was raised by a woman who was habitually late. It was my Mom’s passive-aggressive way of getting back at Dad for all of his childish behavior. The two of them would fight constantly about it. Getting ready to go anywhere was fraught with unnecessary drama and angst.
Then I reached adulthood and found myself showing up late for everything just like Mom. I thought it was just one of my charming quirks. I always had a ready excuse. The truth was, I just couldn’t get it together, and didn’t understand the concept of wasting other people’s time. I was raised by the self-absorbed so I picked up some very bad habits.
Then, one beautiful, sunny day, my friends were waiting on me to leave for a weekend road trip we had been looking forward to for weeks. They were in the car downstairs – I was still blow drying my hair. As a courtesy they gave me 15 minutes. Then they left without me. When I got downstairs and realized they were gone, I was devastated.
Then I woke up to the fact that the world owes me nothing. And if I’m going to act like an ass – the consequences will not be very much fun.
Thirty years later, I leave extra early to make sure I’m on time for people. It feels a lot better knowing that I’m not rushing around like a nut case, and it also feels good to know that I’ve grown up.
Not everyone is curable – but the very best thing to do is to leave without them. Give them a courtesy 10-15 minutes. Then find something better to do without them. And refuse to discuss it with them. They’ll come around, and if they don’t – they’re not worth anyone’s time.
I do the same thing. They get 15 minutes, if they haven’t called to tell me they’re running late, I leave. If they make a habit of running late and calling, so I won’t leave, I tell them I’m leaving and they can meet me there or we’ll have to plan for another time. I’ve spent too much time accommodating people who clearly don’t respect my time.
Oh, and I often just stop making plans with the repeat offenders- just like the non reciprocal people – interestingly enough, they are often turn out to be the same people.
I used to be late – thirty odd years ago… Then I learned in a workshop how passive-aggressive and disrespectful it was, and I stopped doing it. Now I’m usually a little early for appointments. I organise my time better.
People can only treat us how we allow them to, however, and anyone who waits around for four hours is saying, “Treat me any way you want. Walk all over me, and I’ll lie down and let you.” We’re each responsible for ourselves only, so we can never blame the tardy person for the way they make us feel, or for our waiting around. We have the choice to leave – and to stop making arrangements with them when they obviously see us as “less than” them, and treat us disrespectfully.
A few months ago, I was supposed to have an appointment with someone, and I waited at the door of her closed clinic for about half an hour, before walking off to do something else. As I rounded the corner, there she was having lunch at one of the cafes with a couple of other people from the clinic. When I told her I was angry, she said I was overreacting… Then she switched tactics, and said I made her cry (I wasn’t yelling or anything – I calmly said I felt angry about the situation). Anyway, for the first time in my life, I was able to own my anger, and NOT own someone else’s crap. It was a great opportunity for me to put all of the stuff I’d learned from Nat and others into practice – and it was empowering!!!!!
We can be so afraid of our own, and other people’s, anger that we don’t set limits and create healthy boundaries. It’s hard for women to say, “I’m angry,” but it’s empowering to say it, instead of acting it out in manipulative ways (crying, for instance) to gain control. Apart from “No” it’s the most empowering thing I’ve learned to say. Woo hoo!!!
The ex who popped back up into my life recently used to do this to me all the time when we were dating before. Not being late when we had plans to meet, but cancelling on me repeatedly (and last minute) and taking forever to text me back (days sometimes!). He would then act like he was shocked or put upon if I ever called him out for his behaviour.
I sort of forgot how much that all hurt because I hadn’t seen him for a long time. But we got together for lunch a couple weeks ago and had a great time. I know he did too (I could tell). But when I texted him later that week to say, “that was really fun. We should do it again sometime (if you want to?)” he didn’t respond. And he still hasn’t responded for over a week! I know he will.. He just likes to make me wait. He may also be trying to manage down my expectations, but I honestly think that behind it is just a man who does this kind of stuff because he likes to be in control. What kind of man, knowing that someone likes you a lot and wants to hang out, wouldn’t just respond and say he’s not interested if he’s not?.
I have stood up for myself and been calm, cool and collected throughout our entire relationship and I think he can’t stand it. I think he tried to manipulate my feelings by acting like a jerk to stay in control. I forgot what a jackass he is! Flush!!!
You should not have sent that note. Even if he was the best guy in the world, and had a history of good deeds/actions proving this.
So you should not have sent it especially when you know his past.
Sorry.
Only thing you can do now is block him.
OR wait-and-see:
If he does contact you, then YOU get back to HIM a week later, saying, “Thank you, but I’m busy right now.” DON’T explain why you are busy. OR just choose to nopt respond at all.
If he does NOT contact you within (at most) 2 weeks, then BLOCK HIM.
In any scenario, don’t look back. This guy is always looking for better. Right now, and maybe even when he does, finally, “commit.”
Calla, you’re still hooked on him. All this brainpower you are expending and conclusion drawing you are doing to understand the “whys” of HIS behavior. Your text to him reeks with a lack of confidence. “You do like me, don’t you?” is what it sounds like. I am sure he had a good time with you, but it was not a steppingstone to “more” in his world. In your world, it seems lunch was a building block to a future relationship. His lack of response is telling you LOUDLY that this is not mutual. The good time was mutual, but leading to more is NOT mutual. He’s not doing anything but being his uninterested-in-more self, enjoying your ego strokes.
When we “fall” for someone, it is hard to accept that they did not “fall” too.
Calla – You’re the woman from the previous blog who drunk texted this ex that you were in love with him after he asked you out for that date, yes? Why would you think he’s trying to manage down your expectations when you’re no longer even in a relationship with him? That doesn’t make sense. You say that he likes to make you wait but again….that’s talking like you’re still involved….which you’re not as you saw him Tweeting another woman plus he hasn’t returned your affection.
To be honest it doesn’t matter whether or not he contacts you if you know that he wasn’t good for you when you were in the relationship with him – as you said in a previous comment. It just sounds to me as if you’re game playing, trying to pretend you’re ‘flushing’ him and that you’re moving on etc but you’re not yet otherwise you wouldn’t be talking in these ways.
Treat them mean – keep them keen. This IS the hook you are on Calla.
I really hope you get to the bottom of this Calla because it really isn’t going to be pretty until you do.
OH Gosh Calla, I recognise that and yes, it is called control and it just plain mean paltry behaviour… and manipulative. He probably thinks you are sweating while waiting on his response. Isn’t it horrible to be ignored like that? Let him marinate in his own juice and then you, exit stage left 🙂
And Calla, I think he is also priming the “bootycall” pump. He knows you are anxious for ‘more contact’, so he withholds…so when he gives you that evening phone call, asking to drop by to see you, you will be so ready for your ego stroke that you’ll fantasize his contact into “I knew he’d call! I knew he wanted me! He was just playing with me because here he is, calling me now!”.
He’ll come by and have to put in absolutely NO effort to get into your pants. Then he’ll leave you, again, wanting more. But, alas, for him it is just a booty call. He will hit it and quit it for another 4 to 6 weeks. And so it goes.
It will continue like this until YOU call an end to it.
@Elgie R.
That is exactly what I had to face up to with my recent AC. I was deluding myself that he was ‘interested’ in me but it slowly dawned on me that I was one of many on his list of FBG’s and that I was literally waiting around for his summons to come over and wine, dine and 69 him! All at my expense too! He never even bought me a cup of coffee in 18 months of ‘seeing’ each other.
He actually didn’t even like me – but it suited him to get the ego stroke/booty call/takeaway for the couple of hours that he was granting me when his other FBG’s were busy. Ouch – my ego did not like that and I wanted to ‘win’ him over by being the best of the bunch – WTF? But it would never be ‘enough’ for guys like this, no matter what you do.
You’ll be pleased to hear I have woken up and smelled the coffee. Thanks to BR, NML and all the stories on here giving me strength and courage to make the changes.
Bellakins xxx
Hi, Bellakins. Maybe my words rang so true because I have lived it too. I wasn’t trying to “win” ACMM away from his wife, though. I actually thought I was being noble, by making myself a part of his life. He said I improved his marriage, and I actually felt good about that. (yikes!) In my mind I had become a part of his life. I had unrealistic fantasies of having an open man-sharing role, where I was a help to both him and his wife. These things were all in my mind, because all I had ever been to ACMM in his mind was a booty call.
Sometimes, actually, a lot of the time, we project our feelings, and then we get mad when they aren’t mutual.
Calla, you are doing some MAJOR projection. There is NO RELATIONSHIP between you and that guy you talk about. Talking about him on BR does not make it a relationship. He has done nothing wrong. He asked you out. You said yes. He may or may not call after a few weeks. In the meantime, he is not doing anything to you but leaving you alone. You are the one projecting all the “what does this mean” thoughts. You are not ready to accept that you will not be his one and only. So, you are still in it to win it. That is your prerogative.
What kind of man would jerk your chain that way?
A narcissist.
He got off on your post-lunch note. But he feels no responsibility to respond, until HE feels like it.
Flush!
All the people in my life that I have had difficult (toxic) relationships with, have also been people who are exceptionally flaky and late perpetually.
In those cases I have got rid of these people from my life – the abusive ex and an aggressive friend.
However there is still one person in my life who is like this. We have had talks about it and she has certainly improved.
What this post has done is help me to see her point of view. Her lateness never felt like it was done on purpose to control me – like the others did.
Rather I felt like it deeply distressed her and that she felt an immense amount of pressure and worry about letting people down. It was like she was trying to please everyone at the same time and not really stopping to think about what she wanted and who she should really give her precious time to.
She struggles with superficial friendships and often feels lost and at sea.Her family live far away from her, all around the world and she surrounds herself with friends to bat away loneliness. This leads her to almost be in a constant state of spreading herself too thinly.
This post has helped me to be more empathetic towards her.
I remember once telling her, after one of her episodes where she was late, then later, then just did not turn up – that she left me feeling the exact same way my ex used to make me feel – awful. She was devastated she made me feel that way and has never done that again.
I also think it is about insecurity. I feel she puts others in a position of having to wait for her simply because then she will know that if they are willing to wait for her that they will be there for her in her life. It is like a test to see who will stay and who will leave.
As we have become better friends and as I see her trying to change for the better it is encouraging that not all the ‘bad’ qualities we see in people are representative of a ‘bad’ person.
Who knew lateness could be a symbol of deep rooted issues.
Bx
My ex eum asked if he could come and see me after a family party he was attending for a couple of hours.. like a d*ck I waited in all night for him, to appear, then at 12.30 that night he text to tell me that “he was just out the party and he was going down to his sisters house for a drink. Said he loved me and would see me when he can”.
I felt so humiliated that I’d waited for him all night, I decided there and then that this man was more interested in using substances(legal &illegal ones) than he ever could be in me.
I never replied to his text or the next one that didn’t come through until 6 DAYS later when HE DECIDED he wanted to meet up face to face, I didn’t reply to that one either! Although it was excruciatingly painful to keep up no contact with him, I had to walk away to keep my sanity and very little respect I’d had left.
Luckily my friend gave me “Mr unavailable and the fallback girl” to read then I moved onto this site, which has been more helpful than anything I’ve ever came across.
I’ve remained NC with him for almost four months, and he’s not once tried to phone/txt/ email which has been painful but helpful in the long run. I did, however, see his online dating profile where we had met, so I immediately took mine off. I’m staying away from men for a while, I want to fall in love with myself first!
Long live Natalie Lue, and everyone who uses this site. Love and peace to all.x
FOUR HOURS?!?!?!?!?!?!??
Fifteen minutes TOPS with a damn good explanation. (Happening once.)
During these past few months where I am trying to change my life for the better, I’ve adopted the mantra “Early is on time, on time is late, and late is unacceptable”. I followed that mantra for 2 months, and it felt GREAT to not have any anxiety when traffic was unexpectedly heavy, or a train was late…I had plenty of extra time. Then, for about a month, I slipped back into my “always 15 minutes late” mode, and ANXIETY returned. I started saying negative things about myself TO myself in my head. I hated the way I felt..and I realized that this negative talk has always been my go to behavior when I run late, and in my life, I was always running late.
So I started my mantra out loud again “Early is on time, on time is late, and late is unacceptable”. And this Monday, it felt so good to get to my exercise class BEFORE it started.
I also observed at my last job, the positive perception associated with people who are consistently early arrivers.
Early bird catches the worm. Well done Elgie – I enjoy it also and you are so right about the anxiety – and of also offending people unnecessarily.
There is a variation of this pattern that I experienced with my EUM long term ex. We had a business together, yeah bad idea, and had a lot of children activities to attend to. I was a good planner ahead so if there was an important meeting or event I wanted to get there a bit early to get a good seat at the table and be organized if I was presenting which I often was. He would proudly rush down the stairs with “just barely” enough time to get to the meeting so drove like a maniac to get there with me running in heels to make it and arriving flustered and out of breath. I never remember a family trip when he wasn’t running around trying to finish up and find things late into the night before we left.I never remember a trip when because of this he didn’t forget something vital likes shoes and pants. All this left me completely stressed and feeling I had to take on more responsibility because some of the things he didn’t do were important. After we broke up he told me in a joking way that, “I guess I am just not a planning ahead kind of guy”. And I had a business with this guy? No wonder I was stressed out all the time. When I wisened up I saw that it was part of his passive-aggression, his sense of entitlement and complete unconcern about the effect he was having on me and others. It is a big red flag.
I have someone like this in my life and I keep in mind the quote – a lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine. Then I resist the urge to ‘save’ them from the consequences for their lack of planning.
Wow. This is an amazing post – who knew indeed? My half sister is a classic passive aggressive and uses the lateness thing on everyone. I have always said it shows a complete lack of respect for anyone or anything on her part but now I understand why she does it. It’s all about control.
Really enjoyed reading the responses to this. Thanks to all – very enlightening.
I put up with this for far too long with my ex-EUM, even though we were together barely 5-6 months. We would make plans, such as, ‘Hey come over for dinner/spend the night,’ and I would make dinner, and he would show up HOURS late, apologetic but saying, ‘I do much better if you give me an exact time, otherwise I get side-tracked!’ So I started giving him an exact time. Still late. We made plans for Thanksgiving. He said ‘I’ll see you later,’ AND NEVER called, texted, or even SHOWED UP. (um, who do I have to blame after that one??) I’d hear, ‘I’ll text you after work and we’ll hang out,’ and never hear from him until the next day: ‘I got busy/I fell asleep/I didn’t hear from you either…’ I think part of the reason I didn’t break up with him then and there was that his behavior was SO outrageous, I simply couldn’t believe it and became delusional to reality! The last half of our relationship was basically me telling him, in various ways, how he simply did not respect my time and I was sick of it. We would make no plans except last minute plans that always involved sex and no time for anything else before he was back out the door again…I mean, now that I think about it, who knows how many others he was seeing while seeing me. Truly, very foolish of me. I felt so bad for so long after the break up, partly because I was disappointed in myself, but I am finally over him. I knew it would just take time, but some of that time was spent feeling incredibly sad and very depressed. I’m really grateful the rose-colored glasses have come off and I can see things for how they really were. I’m SO much better off without that kind of drama in my life!
My most recent ex wasn’t late, necessarily. But he was an often-makes-plans-and-doesn’t-follow-through type of guy. Which I think, is a variation on the whole “I don’t respect your time” thing.
He was a TOTAL people pleaser too. So I know he thought all the amazing things he did for me (and they certainly could be) should somehow make up for the fact that he would frequently cancel on me. People like this -always late/happy for plans to fall through- will NEVER respect your time. It took me a while to figure it out though…
West coast,
You will be so much better off without the mess this guy brings to whomever sticks around long enough to put up with his bs.
I was certain my ex was going to want me back oh soooo badly (he sure did put on a good show when we were together) after I went no contact. What did he do?
Replaced me. Took him all of two weeks. I was bereft and in intense grieving for three years. I finally got the message of who he really was when I realized he duped some lady with a job & a house to have his baby so he can go on making pizzas and drinking instead of actually growing up and being the near 30-yr-old man he actually is.
We are better off alone than with messy trysts.
Peanut
I’m sorry to hear that you were ‘replaced’ so quickly, I too, felt he was trying to replace me – the truth is you and I are one of a kind on this planet and I pity the next women they lie to. Yours and my EUMs are man-boys. Pathetic excuses for man kind.
He was also the biggest cheap arsed b*stard I’d ever been out with, he preferred to stay at home watching films and smoking weed than take me out, and any time we were at(his) family occasions, he’d be in the bathroom snorting cocaine, while I sat akwardly wondering why he kept leaving me by myself – so f*cking rude and so naive of me. I wished I’d walked out the very first time it happened because my gut instinct was telling get me something wasn’t right with the guy from the start.
Before I met him, I was hungry for love as a single mum (single for the best part of 10 years) and quite simply the unacceptable became acceptable because I let him squeeze the living daylights out of my mind, body and spirit.
We are worth our weight in gold.. always remember that peanut and all the other fabulous women who refuse to be treated like mugs. (Mug translates as an idiot or someone gullible for our American gurls).
The ex AC would do this. I cringe when thinking about what I put u with. More than once he kept me waiting in the car for him for over an hour. Once he invited me ‘for a ride’ and I’m sure it was only so he wouldn’t have to pay for parking. Instead he kept me waiting and moving his car. Another time he simply could have invited me inside but obviously wanted to keep me a secret, so instead of doing that or leaving, he kept me waiting. It was his car and I had no other way to get home so I was stuck sitting there. Even more outrageous was the fact that he said we’d go for dinner as some pseudo apology, then announced that he got an invitation to do something and made it clear that he was going to go do that instead ~ without an apology or any acknowledgement that he was bailing on the plans that he had just suggested. I could go on, but you get the idea. I can’t believe I put up with such a selfish ass.
Iyanks Vanzant says being late continually is about control. The habitually late person is trying to control the dynamic, the situation, or perhaps the other person. I noticed that my coworkers who are habitually late have big egos, are self-important and express feeling out of control …I think Iyanla is right.
Yep I am cringing – due to my own lateness – being perceived as exactly as described as above – by an ex therapist – one of my clocks was wrong and I was not really in much of a fit mental state at the time – hense seeing her – and I was convinced I had always had plenty of time.
I was genuinely shocked every time she brought it up – even to the point of getting her to check watches in the end and began to believe she had a weird problem about it – ie it reminded her of something else/ she was projecting onto me her own past experiences and emotions? – or her watch was wrong? – I wasn’t bothered about it because I was on time for most other things and genuinely thought it can’t be – I was leaving to go to appointments with her really early using my phone clock and it turns out, sitting outside and waiting in the car and then using the clock in the car without realizing it, to judge when to go up to the appointment – only this was the clock that was wrong by about 18 minutes! I didn’t wear a watch at the time and only when I started wearing the watch did I work out what had actually happened – long after the relationship had thoroughly dissolved because she was acting as if I had a thorough lack of respect for her and her time and I was being passive aggressive towards her on purpose.
I was also late once (in 18 months) for my ex – having had to walk three miles cross country to get to the meeting place and miss-judging the amount of time it would take to walk badly – I was late by five minutes and he went completely nuts at me – shouting and accusing me of disrespect and control and manipulation etc in the street – totally humiliating…which I feel was unreasonable of him – and I took it – while he maintained he was perfectly in the right – you must never be late.
I have also been the victim of lateness. I was regularly left every week outside at the one class I went to as a child by my mother – to the point where the teacher regularly had a go at me on a weekly basis for a tardy mother – she never said much direct to my mother but would happily have a go at me in private and public regularly – I would pass the info on every time but my mother – never apologising, or doing anything to sort it out, would do the same over again – in favour of spending time doing things with my brother. She would often be over 30/40 minutes late and would insist it couldn’t be helped and almost like it was perfectly reasonable and it was the teacher being unreasonable – meanwhile I would be waiting outside at the mercy of all the weather – rain, snow, hot sun, wind… and an increasingly cross teacher who was tired after working and just wanted to go home but couldn’t legally leave me on my own.
The anxiety and feeling of being placed in this situation is still with me today – it was dreadful – and this was 30 years ago! – I am convinced this was one of the reasons I was never encouraged within the class – that I took from 4 years of age to 16 years and consistently passed over, ignored/shunned within it and left out of groups – it also helped make me believe I was no good doubly, – in the middle between my teacher and mother, as this happened for years with my mother and the teacher seemingly oblivious to the harm, even though I told my mother what was going on as a result. It was the first thing I ever did in my life that I really wanted to be good at and was never encouraged at it/ was sabotaged by both of them for years and interestingly spent most my life after sabotaging other interests of mine.
I think the point with lateness for me, where I take it offensively, is the context within which it occurs, and its frequency. With the therapist she must of seen my confusion – it was genuine – she knew the state I was in, so I’m not sure the hard boundary line and anger she showed WAS the correct way forward – I was an absolute wreck at the time – any anger was never going to help and she was the only lifeline and she knew it – rather than helping me figure it out and unravel what was actually going on – from that one action EVERYTHING I else I did was seen in that light/context – not put into context with my other actions and my situation.
I bought a watch – to back myself up in the end and show people what the time actually was – which was when I discovered the hidden truth. I am genuinely sorry for it happening and to be honest actually enjoy being early for things because I simply have too much anxiety otherwise – which is way too detrimental to my health and any relationship I want to communicate in.
Oona,
Do you feel as though the pain you felt at being left waiting for your mum as a kid, has subconciously led you to feel a need to keep others waiting? (more specifically the therapist)
Do you remember how you felt when you were waiting? Sad? angry? upset? But probably also just so desperate for your mum to come and pick you up that by the time she did come you were just so happy to see her? mixed emotions?
The reason I ask is because I can sense in your post above that you may realise this is the case on some level but are yet to join up the dots. You explain how at least two people in your life have had a problem with your lateness and you are remorseful for it.
I find the the therapist encounter very thought provoking. Seeing the therapsit must have been an excercise in showing your vunlnerability. It is interesting that at a time when you may potentially have been most exposed, you subcounciously it would seem, chose to control the situation with your tardiness.
Perhaps as you saw your mother doing all those years ago.
The therapist was the first time in my life I have been called out on being regularly late and I was genuinely confused and quite frightened because I thought here is another person attempting to make me feel bad about something I’m not doing ie doing something on purpose to hurt them.
I do remember that my gut feeling as a result of this, was that she was inexperienced/focusing on things not important or happening – and I didn’t act on it because at the time I felt there was no other alternative – so no I didn’t want to be vulnerable with this person in reality and it may have been some form of unconscious control because I didn’t trust her? so when this started happening this built a huge paranoia – not helpful – that further eroded the non-trusting-relationship further – conveniently to my relief in the end – as you point out – seeing as I became frightened of her inexperience and what it was going to result in for me – which was in reality loads of trouble being labeled as something actually I am not normally.
As per the parent – I felt highly anxious and angry and hurt and helpless, weekly for over 12 years, at being left by her, especially as she chose to often be with others. I was relieved at her every eventual arrival because it meant I would escape further abuse from the teacher at that point, but this relief was temporarary because the relationship with my mother was non existant in reality and her presence/ her own abuses of me would start up – especially once I told her about her being late again and/or about the teachers behaviour towards me.
Fortunately I do not have an habitual late problem as you describe, but that is how it has been perceived by people who judged me based on evidence that was not taking into consideration all the facts – as I said before – I was late once – in 18 months for my ex who basically jumped on me in an verbally abusive manner in public – a man who didn’t need an excuse to do this to me anyway – and I was late by 5 minutes – no more – after a cross country walk of over 1 hour to get to the place he was cosily sitting already.
Perhaps you are correct and I don’t join up the dots? I am missing something? – I am not perfect – but I personally don’t see black and white on this issue, I have experienced, it can be used to emotionally abuse, as any other perceived fault by a willing abuser, and I repeat – depending on the circumstances for someone being late ie the frequency and amount / the situation AND my gut feeling about the relationship in general – depends on how I feel/react when someone turns up late for me.
If others are repeatedly late for me now as an adult – their loss – I walk away after one warning and always make sure I have other plans and carry them through – ie if it was a film – I would still go in on time and watch the film – unless it was totally out of their character, their being late and I was worried something had happened to them but I would only allow this to worry me once – I am no longer reliant on someone else driving or moving me from a to b and am self sufficent, even though disabled, so would take myself home/ do said activity and not tolerate it again.
Someones lateness is not my personal issue to deal with – it is theirs. My issue is working out what I need, what my values are and following through on these – I attempt to always be early and enjoy this personally but have in the past not been and so I am careful but not perfect.
If someone else’s value is for someone to never ever be late for them or unable to understand unforseen issues may occasionally arise – for anyone including themselves – that is not my problem – it is for them and their prerogative to work out their values and needs for themselves, just it won’t match mine.
Your comment reminded me of incidents like this from my childhood. Usually my Mom was the only one who would take me to a practice or class. When my Dad actually had to pick me up on rare occasions, he wouldn’t show up. Once in elementary school I was left alone on the playground after one such practice. After waiting for a while, I went to the school and knocked on the door until a maintenance person let me in to use the phone and call home. What happened when my Dad finally showed up? He screamed at me. Apparently I was in the wrong for going into the school since the maintenance person could have been a pedophile. In no way was he in the wrong for failing to show up.
Oh, Oona. I’m so sorry. I can relate to every one of your stories. You didn’t deserve the way you were treated by any of those people. I’m still amazed at the level of insensitivity, lack of accountability and cruelty people are capable of. For you to be cringing it sounds like you are still accepting the blame/responsibility.
From what you describe, with the therapist it was a mistake. You are human, you made a mistake and didn’t realize your clock was off. You didn’t consciously choose to show up late, you were working hard to be on time. It sounds like your therapist over reacted. Instead of helping you discover why you were late, she took it personally. Not a good sign for a therapist! She is being paid to help you work through these sorts of things. If you show up 18 minutes late, she still gets paid for the 50 minutes or whatever. If anything, you’re shorting yourself the 18 minutes. I’m sorry she wasn’t compassionate and didn’t help you when you needed her the most (painfully familiar?). Instead of helping you, her reaction hurt you. You didn’t/don’t deserve that. I’ve had that happen with a therapist (countertransference) and it’s brutal. Totally messes with the mind when you are at your most vulnerable and are looking to this person to help you, support you, be there for you. Good job for recognizing her overreaction and getting away from her (protecting yourself)!
As for your ex, projecting much, buddy????? For him to go on a rant and publicly humiliate you for being 5 minutes late after walking 3 miles to meet with him!!! Seriously Oona, I’m not typically a violent person, but I want to slap him.
I also want to hug you and tell you he’s an abusive, controlling, manipulative creep and it’s not your fault, you didn’t do anything wrong. It’s not your fault, Oona. You didn’t/don’t deserve that.
As a child to be the last one picked up repeatedly and then to be held accountable for it by both of the ‘adults’ in the situation is heartbreaking. You were likely feeling hurt, scared, and abandoned. They were blaming, punishing and humiliating (neglecting and abusing) the helpless, dependent child who was rightfully looking for the adult to show up on time, to care for them, to consider them, to protect them. Instead your needs and feelings were treated as if they didn’t matter, as if you didn’t matter. They took out their frustration and anger on you.
They were wrong, Oona. You didn’t deserve that. You do matter. Your needs matter, your feelings matter, your thoughts matter, your beliefs matter, and your choices matter.
I hope that you can find a way to give them back the blame/responsibility, shame that they wrongly dumped in your lap.
It sounds like you are being very hard on yourself. Please know that you do not deserve to be punished for being late for the therapist appointments or for any of the crap your parents or ex put on you. Please forgive yourself for having made a mistake with your therapist and ex and for not being perfect and for accepting responsibility for anything that happened when you were a child. You did the best you could, that’s all any of us can ever do. You have ZERO responsibility for ANYTHING that happened when you were a child. ZERO.
I experience you as a kind, considerate, compassionate and thoughtful person. Please be compassionate with yourself, Oona. Please give them back their ‘stuff’ and console that little girl who has been horribly mistreated and blamed for that mistreatment by the people she depended on to love, care for, and protect her. She is so worthy of it, she always has been.
Thank you Veracity you make some lovely points I hadn’t thought of – I am not responsible for the whole situation but I do feel I am responsible for my part in it – the biggest problem is that I blow this part up into the whole and then feel so bad about it that I don’t do anything to sort it out/prevent it from happening again (which may also be what our ex EU’s are also doing?) …..
1/ not getting another more experienced therapist to support me for nine months – just feeling guilty and confused
2/ not dumping my ex’s a%% there and then – just feeling guilty and hard done by
3/ not allowing myself to realise that what my mother did to me as a child, counted, now that I’m an adult and not getting help for it – just feeling guilty, hard done by and confused.
I struggle with the judged harshly scenario regularly but with different situations, and overly and automatically take on the full responsibility most times which destroys my self esteem and confidence every time.
Hense actually being a nice caring person but having been made to feel lower than the lowest animal by external, and then internal sources.
I have accepted responsibility for my mistake by asking myself what can I do? and learning and re setting the car clock/ checking it every time I get in the car out of paranoia with my watch and apologising and I am enjoying being really really early for things due to getting into the training of leaving the house super early when I was late for the old therapist.
I have a new therapist now who is more fully trained and experienced in dealing with the kinds of trauma I have and experienced in abusive relationships and she noted immediately – like you – I was overly responsible for more than my fair share of guilt and shame in a number of things – why didn’t the ex therapist see this?
I am slowly now dealing with sorting out the backlash that came, after I lost the ex therapist, from others connected, when they saw I was unsupported! – ! which sadly I should be surprised about but am not, having experienced it before – I have had to get other support to help do this – I tried handling it on my own which just didn’t work – too many years being made to feel so bad for things that just weren’t in perspective.
Its the ‘how can you know, what you do not know?’ question that gets to me. I blame myself so badly every time I make a mistake because there is always something I feel I could have done in hindsight/ with better knowledge.
I KNOW I am not perfect – yet making allowances for this so it does not affect my self esteem and confidence negatively is very difficult to break and really I am just getting my teeth into it now.
Whether it is that you are faced with being accused of doing something that is hurting someone else rightfully or wrongfully – ultimately – it is for us to determine/judge ourselves based on our values, gut feeling and act on it appropriately – ie the sentence needs to reflect the crime not one sentence suits all regardless of the situation and protect ourselves better from whatever is going on at all times, so that it cannot hurt us a next time.
I’ve always been late for everything and often extremely late (more than 30 minutes). I’m consistently a couple of minutes late for work which is obviously a problem and usually much later than that when meeting friends. I absolutely hate being late and feel extremely guilty and embarrassed about it but I really don’t know how to fix it. Does anyone have any suggestions?
I come from a family who are never on time for anything and I’ve always put it down to that. Having done a lot of introspection over the past year and trying to improve my understanding and appreciation of myself and others, it’s finally dawning on me that this is not acceptable behaviour and that I am treading on other’s boundaries. I always pre-empt it by telling people that I’m always late and let people know by phone or text when I’m running late, believing that absolves me from any blame and that other people should be okay with it. A lot of it is down to procrastination and a manifestation of depression, but having read this I’m starting to understand that there is a slight passive-aggressive element in there relating to my parents and wanting some sort of control. I genuinely feel that I don’t know how to be on time so absolutely any exercises that you good people could suggest would be very welcome.
Sorry Andy, but I have zero understanding for your problem. It;s simply not difficult to be on time, or change one’s behaviour in this respect. I know what I’m talking about because years ago I was habitually late. I realised how wrong my behaviour was, changed and I now make great effort to be on time. Have you ever traveled by the train or a plane? I bet you have. Did you expect the train/ plane wait for you??? Of course not. If your house was on fire, would you be late running out for your life? I doubt it. So you see, all you’re saying are just excuses for something that can be easily corrected.
Why reply if you have zero understanding of my problem? I asked if anyone has any practical advice. You haven’t offered any. If someone has an addiction would your advice be to “just stop doing that”? If you read my post again you’ll see that I am trying to be fully accountable for my actions and make positive changes to benefit myself and those around me. Your tone feels quite unhelpful, aggressive and not in keeping with the spirit of this site.
Owch Andy. I’m sorry you felt Mephista’s style wasn’t helpful to you – you are obviously very sensitive about this issue and I am sure will find a way through.
As Mephista basically says – really the question to ask yourself is – what can YOU do? really and start with one step and then take another until you achieve your goal. And not be harsh on yourself when you slip up once but learn from it and put new steps in place for the next time.
That is the question I asked myself/ ask myself regularly – when I am being good to myself.
Andy, addiction? Addicted to what? Being late?
I don’t buy it. Being late is not an addiction. Being late is a choice. It also reflects just one thing; poor time management. You can learn better time management. It’s your responsibility to do do, for yourself and others.
There is no addiction or other explanation for chronic lateness. As Yoda says: “There is no try. There is only Do.”
I agree with other comments: Just stop doing that. It’s causing you grief, and is 100% within your control to fix.
Addiction = the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma.
Could Andy be addicted to a sub conscious form of self harm? and this causes him to sabotage any attempts to do otherwise but be late?
I don’t know I don’t walk in his shoes.
My experience is, when I was addicted to EU relationships, I needed easy strategies to remember that I believed could work for me AND cold turkey non contact AND some serious soul searching about what I could do otherwise to avoid this situation, AND forgiveness of myself – to wean me off them.
I was so used to it, that a successful relationship was actually terrifying because I felt I’d loose all the support that got me there in the first place – which I was overly attached to because of not having any successful relationships. Also in my experience – all good things went wrong spectacularly – so it was also an exercise in protecting myself by distancing myself from my own successes or potential successes.
Judy(and others), I’m sorry but if we were all able to just stop our unhealthy and damaging behaviors, there would be no need for this blog. The whole point of Andy’s post is that he finally became aware of his bad behavior and now he wants to fix it. The question is how? The lack of compassion in your post is exactly why we are here, suffering and looking for support on this blog. Being compassionate to others and ourselves is the most difficult part and that’s why we keep hurting ourselves and others.
I am sorry you were disturbed by this Tardygirl and I hope you were not including me in your ‘(and others)’ list – you were ambiguous – as it certainly wasn’t my intention to be uncompassionate.
Breaking my number of addictions actually did involve me just stopping/ non contact and refusing to allow myself to do it again for as long as possible – while working hard on myself – then forgiving myself when I failed and caved in, then just stopping again.
It was the maintenance of keeping the addiction stopped, forgiving myself when I caved, that I found hardest.
The longer I managed to keep any stopped the more confidence, health and self esteem I noticed I gained from it – I kept going until it became silly not to keep it going permanently and the effect of stopping it was just so good for me, in the end I just kept it going naturally.
One book on addictions that I remember I found useful to me was Alan Carr’s book to give up smoking? don’t know the exact title sorry but you can probably google it.
Andy, it’s promising that you’re self reflective about this and trying to make a change. One suggestion would be to set yourself an absolute time by which you need to leave in order to arrive a few minutes early. Force yourself to get ready earlier than you normally would, and be determined to leave at the time that you’ve set, no matter what. Can I ask if you have anxiety at the idea of leaving at a certain time ~ are there other things you’re trying to get done that you feel you have to do before you leave? If so, I would try reasoning with yourself about it ~ I imagine that most times there is nothing really urgent that you would be leaving unfinished. It’s a good step to warn people if you are running late, but I think you’ll start to feel better about yourself if you start keeping your commitments by showing up when you say you will.
Hi EC, thanks for your reply. I absolutely feel anxious – all the time, about everything. You’re right about there being nothing urgent that couldn’t go unfinished. It’s usually that I procrastinate over nothing. It isn’t that I’m just late for friends who may not express displeasure about it, it happens with work, transport, appointments etc and has a detrimental effect across all areas of my life. I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that it is a family trait and is something that I have only recently realised is such a major problem personally and such a poor way to treat others. When you’ve grown up being late it takes something to click in order to empaphise with those who find it a to be a problem – and I now realise that eveyone should find it a problem.
I really appreciate your reply. It’s helped me work through this a little bit more in my own head.
Cheers.
Andy, it’s great that you recognize it and know it may be family history. (which you can break) You’re on your way to fixing this problem, now that you’re aware of it, and aware of how many areas of your life it’s negatively affecting.
Andy,
I think your problem stems from anxiety. Lateness is a coping mechanism with it. Someone in your family established this coping pattern and others in your family have followed. There is no lateness gene :).
The only way to break this pattern is to deconstruct it. It is a hard task. You need to sit and think about the thought pattern that leads you to being late. Analyze one instance of you being late. Did you look at the clock? Did you deliberately decide not to leave when you were supposed to leave by all reasonable calculations? If so, then why? There is a particular thought pattern that causes it and you have to play detective to find it. It’s the only way. Perhaps sit with someone else to help you with this – like a therapist. But the good news: this is not out of your control, there is a method to the madness and if you’re stubborn enough you will find it! 🙂
Andy, a person can be habitually late for many different reasons. When I was in my twenties, I struggled with getting places on time. It was very hard for me to estimate how long it would take me to get somewhere or do something. Sometimes I got distracted easily, other times I was just trying to do too many things in a short time.
And then I joined the military, where the consequences for being late to your post can be harsh. I knew I had to make some changes. I started timing myself, and setting routines. I’d count backwards — okay, I have to report to work by 8:00, so that means that I should plan to be there by 7:45. So, how am I going to get to work, and how long will it take me to travel from the place I live to the place I work? If it takes 20 minutes, then I have to leave home by 7:25. So then, what do I have to do to be out the door at 7:25? If it takes me a half hour to shower, dress, do my hair, and put on make-up, and half an hour to get my breakfast, then I know I need to get up by 6:25. This may sound a little OCD, but it was what I had to do to get to work on time and stay out of trouble. I made my routine and stuck to it, even if I didn’t want to. I also did as much as I could before I went to bed. I’d make my lunch and put it in the refrigerator, and I’d check to see that my shoes were shined and my uniform was clean and pressed. That made life easier.
I’ve been out of the military for many years, and I’ve worked at the same place for several years, so I just automatically follow the same routine of getting up at a certain time, doing exercises, having breakfast, and getting showered and dressed. I don’t even have to think about it.
If I’m going somewhere that is out of my routine, again, I follow the procedure of counting backward. Okay, what time do I have to be there? How long will it take me to get there? What do I have to do to be ready to go there? Sometimes, I actually write this all down — what time I have to start getting ready, what time I will actually leave to go to the meeting, or the restaurant or whatever. And again, maybe it sounds obsessive to people who can get places on time without doing all this…but this is what I have to do to be on time. It works for me. I’ve gone from being a person who was often late, and considered flaky, to having the reputation of being very reliable and punctual.
Some of us DO have greater challenges with being on time than others. Still — anyone CAN learn to be on time, if the consequences of being late are unpleasant enough. OR the rewards of being on time are good enough. Suppose someone were offering a chronically-late person a million dollars if they were at a certain place by noon. Who wouldn’t find a way to get there by noon?
Urghh!
I forget that my manager is another late person! Since I have started working here several months ago she is late almost every morning. When she does turn up she spends her time talking and not helping.
I’m her deputy so this is a massive burden to me. I am forever holding the fort and picking up her duties that she constantly does not get around to.
This is not because she is too busy to, but rather that her priority is to chat.
She’s a very disruptive lady. Also a very insecure lady.
Although on paper she is great to get a long with. A lot of it is just networking ability.
I often find that a lot of higher ups have risen up the ranks on personality more than ability. I know it is the curse of a deputy manager to be faced with picking up the slack.
I have never felt comfortable with her and it just hit me this morning when she turned up late after spending the night 10 minutes away from work that her lateness is a symbol of something deeper. (This post really has got me thinking)
It is a lack of respect and it is a sense of entitlement. However it is also about her insecurity and need for control. She mentioned how she got her husband to ring her to wake her up – this reminded me of how my abusive ex used to ask me to ring to wake him up. I must stress this was not a one time thing. He actually expected me to be his alarm clock EVERYDAY.
Him needing me to wake him up was about multiple things. Of course he did not NEED me to wake him up, he is a grown man! He asked so that he could get a kick out of knowing that I would not only do whatever he asked of me (at that point) but that his wellbeing was the first thing on my mind everyday. This I realise now after reading this post, was about making sure that I was there for him. It was his way of making sure I would not abandon him. This was his way of making me prove my love.
He also did it becuase he was so incapable of getting out of bed in the morning that he did actually NEED the movitvation a call from me would give him. Thats right – he was such a deeply unhappy person that getting out of bed was something he did not want to do everyday. He did not have the ABILITY to motivate himself. This was reflected in his inability to hold down a job, his inability to manage his finacnes and his inability to show up with any kind of empathy or sincere emotion.
Our wounds and insecurities show up in many different ways. I am beginning to realise that for some people it shows up in perpetual lateness. Fascinating.
I am beginning to see that making someone wait for you – over and over again, is a test. How much do they care? How much will they take? How much will they put up with?
This post has revolutionised the way I now view people who steal my time.
When I told my ex that I was upset by his always running late when we were going to specific work or events/ appointments, he would tell me that I was over-reacting and that we would get there “on time” – that would mean we would walk in exactly on time when most people were there. I agree with this concept of “on time” being 15 minutes early!
He completely refused to listen to what concerned me or make adjustments that would make things less stressful for me. It became a power struggle where he would say ” I have a right to do things the way I want and why should we do things your way all the time” and
suggesting I was being demanding and unreasonable. (just to clarify I wanted to get to things 15 minutes early – not two hours). I fell for this “logic” for years. I know that I get stressed if I am late or haven’t allowed enough time to get somewhere. So now that I am out of the marriage I can handle my own time schedule. I think it is a lot to do with entitlement and the feeling that “people should understand” and accept bad behaviour.
Espresso
A good many meetings, presentations etc require one to HAVE to get there early because you must mute your phone, fire up your laptop, reread the agenda and so on so walking in the door right at the start time is actually late. As one who often ran meetings; someone who’d still be shuffling papers, getting settled, was incredibly annoying. Another variant on folks disrespecting ones time are those folk that ask you to do things, go places with very little warning. With the farm/house/day job, my time is pretty tightly scheduled and time to get outside, to read, to socialize, try to meet new folk is kinda sacred and last minute non-planners really can mess up not just one but several days. I understand emergency situations, but this seems to be a regular pattern. Perhaps folk that don’t have anything going on in their lives assume others don’t either.
I definitely think with the narcissist it is all about control. Mine used to tell me to meet him at his house when we were going on a day trip. And then he would text and say to go on in but that he was running late…running errands that made no sense because he could have done the errands on any other day. And I always would sit and wait. He would test me. Like a fool, I would pass his test. Another interesting dynamic is that while he had me sitting at his house waiting, it was almost like he planted hurtful things so I would see them. A card from another woman sitting on the coffee table, or a gift from someone. Or to impress me, he would have a list of things he was working on, etc., etc.
Rewind,
Yeah, the whole invite me over then put some other womens picture out! The ex-EUM ass did the same thing! Then stood there looking at me like I wasn’t suppose to be hurt! I could have punched him in his face! Unfortunately that wasn’t enough for me to stop seeing him, but it was one of the most hurful things he could have done because it was intentional. Glad he gone!
You know, these ACs and EUMs are fully able to get places on time when it is important to them. ACMM is a consistent early arriver to his job – never late, and he uses public transit…so he has to be aware of and compensate for weather/road delays. But I know his wife has to “ride” him to be on time to things they do together…I’ve witnessed the phone checks. And in my first go-round with ACMM, he used to stand me up, without notice or apology until asked for one, and it was always an offhanded apology. The first time around, all this AC-type behavior was new to me, especially coming from a man who pursued me and seemed so interested in me. I never called him for plans, I felt since he was the married one he had a better grasp on when he could make himself available…so I was confused by his making plans and standing me up, until I caught on that it was a game with him.
Our second go round, 13 years later, he was so attentive and prompt and true to plans those first 5 months. And I was completely floored when in month 6 he stood me up with no call or apology. I dumped him flat, via email with two words. EFF U. But given that I had not really wanted things to be over, and he did the hot pursuit thing that turns us on, I permitted him to press the reset button after a couple of months. From that point on, if plans were going to fall through, he would text me around the time he should have been getting to my place. So he still would stand me up, only he would give the apology – not really an improvement. And if you think that is an improvement, you are still stuck in AC fantasy land.
These guys know how hurtful that “late” behavior is. Once, ACMM kept a date but did not have enough free time for our usual booty call antics, but he came by and sat and chatted for a while, saying “he didn’t want me to think he was trying to stand me up”.
Some of these guys are trying to get a rise out of us. Some of them just never think about the other person. All of them should be avoided and dumped.
Come to think of it, in my twenties I had a meangirl BFF who started standing me up at the last minute. She’d make a plan, then about 5 minutes before I expected her to be at my place, she’d call to cancel. During our friendship, there would be these “moments” when I felt she never really liked me. She frequently sent barbed comments my way. And the NPD female coworker I knew, when we were still on friendly terms (so I thought), made a birthday plan with me to go to an event on a Saturday – made a big deal of getting there by 7:30 P, which meant we should be on our way by 6:30. I waited for her “get together” call Saturday afternoon…watched the clock tick by past 6, 6:30, 7, 7:30..no call. By 8PM a cousin called and I went out with my cousin. Coworker did not contact me until I was at work on Monday and we happened to run into each other – no overt action on her part. She said she “fell asleep” at 4PM on Saturday. I told her I went out with a cousin, to which NPD coworker said “Oh, I guess we blew each other off, then!”
Thanks for your responses ladies. I can totally see that this guy has got me on a hook, big time. We are not in a relationship anymore, but there is this constant dynamic between us where he seems to want to be with me, but then not. I don’t know what he wants. I’ve said we can be friends, but he seemed unhappy that I just wanted to be friends. I told him I loved him, but then he seemed unsure about what to say back (it was a stupid, drunken text). Maybe he just wanted to sleep with me, he definitely seemed to before. But he keeps texting me periodically (every few months when I was in another relationship) but then he doesn’t follow through to get together. Why keep popping back up into my life and saying hi if you don’t want to be friends or anything else??. I don’t understand him at all.
It doesn’t matter. Regardless of his feelings (which I think I am totally inflating in my head) he was a complete dick to me before and is being a complete dick to me now. I don’t know why I still want him!!! It’s like I’m on crack! But I am breaking this cycle because I really do want to flush him. The longer he’s in my life, the longer I’m hooked to someone who has proven themselves to be a mean person, and there is no reason to keep someone like that around. It’s like I keep expecting him to magically transform into the man I thought he was when we first met or the man I see in him some of the time (but clearly it’s just an illusion).
Anyways, I know he’ll text back eventually (he always does). Should I just ignore him when he does or say something and then go no contact so he at least knows why? I don’t want to be rude – He may be a complete jerk, but I am not.
Under your post on the previous blog I actually gave you a link to Natalie’s video about guys who keep popping up in your life but they don’t actually want to be with you. I don’t know whether you watched it or not but it may have helped.
What he wants is of no importance – it is what you want? that is key – and if you want this non relationship – carry on.
You KNOW he is using you when he wants and this will never turn into a real loving relationship. Is this is the way you want to be treated? Really? He will not change – just mask his true behaviour conveniently long enough for him to get HIS needs met but never yours.
You are addicted and it is best to go cold turkey in order to break any addiction – hense non contact – this includes all physical presents and reminders in your own home, numbers on phones – change his name to USER – do not read texts/emails delete them and get rid of all your means to break and contact, stalk him ie email, facebook access etc….start getting out there meeting new people – if he comes in your work towards you treat him as if he was dangerous to your health and go to the bathroom, come on this website, turn your back, your face, put your fingers in your ears – do anything you have to do to stay away from him and break this addiction – or stay hooked and slowly disappear – good luck.
Calla, ignoring a complete jerk is NOT rude. It’s self-protection. Just ignore him; he’s gonna keep on fishing in the same pond forever if you don’t.
Ignoring him with zero explanation (he doesn’t deserve one) is not rude.
Calla,
You seriously need to block this guy! If you do not – for what reason I cannot comprehend – do not respond. Silence speaks volumes! I doubt he will care, anyhow.
Time to treat yourself with some self love/respect.
This is very timely for me. I have come to distrust people who are chronically disrespectful of my time. My experience has taught me that the people in my life who were regularly late were also the people who treated me as less important than them.
I’m in what feels like a dangerous situation at work with a director who treats the rules like they do not apply to him and our time as not as important as his. He is irresponsible, does not follow the procedures, he doesn’t turn in the paperwork in a timely manner and then he (often aggressively) pushes his emergency need on me/my boss/(the v.p. if he ‘has’ to). This happens just about weekly.
He has a strong/dominant/aggressive personality. He tried to intimidate me when I first started. He realized that wasn’t going to work because I just told him that I didn’t have the authority. So he went to my boss or the v.p. They gave in to him, every time.
Last week he tried a different approach with me, he started coming into my office and putting his hand on my shoulder when making a request. I was sitting and he was standing – I was in a very vulnerable position and he knew it. My alarm bells were going off and at the same time I felt somewhat paralyzed. I backed up in my chair. I recognized the threat at some level but couldn’t quite manage to get my full bearings.
Still trying to dominate/control, but using a different tactic.
He crossed another line yesterday. He scapegoated me. He messed up and didn’t give me the paperwork and must have forgotten. He asked his employee to get the paperwork from me so the check could be rushed through. I told her I didn’t have it. She seemed genuinely surprised and confused. Somebody called my boss (the director?) about it. I told him that I checked twice and I don’t have the paperwork.
The director came rushing into the office and minutes later, after I had been away from my desk, made a point up walking up and pulling it from my in box.
I apologized! It was an automatic reaction – to take the blame. Uggh. An he, being who he is, wanted it that way, set it up that way. For me to take the blame for his lack of responsibility.
My boss came over quickly and was smiling and happy and said something like ‘did you just find it?’ And I said, yes, someone put it in there afterwards. My boss knew exactly what the other director had done!
I think I was in shock because the reality of what had happened didn’t hit me until the next day. I saw the employee that was originally looking for the paperwork and I asked her if he had the paperwork the whole time and she said yes, she had given it to him and he didn’t turn it in. I don’t know if she realized how he handled it – making it look like it was my fault.
I went to my boss and let him know what she said and he said he figured that when the guy came rushing in and then it suddenly appeared. That he just slipped it in my box while I was away. What I realized after I got home was that he didn’t say anything about how wrong it was or what a shitty thing to do to me, or what, if anything, he was going to do about it.
So I feel like I am back to being the scapegoat of the ‘family’ and not sure if the person/people I rely on to ‘protect’ me, to support me, is/are willing or capable of doing so. And do they even care about my feelings, my needs, my security? So I am working out the best way I can protect myself, keep myself safe and secure and require them to do the same or I will leave.
The director in question has been there longer than my boss and has, what seems to be, a close relationship with the v.p. My boss is passive. The new hr director just started last week.
I appreciate your input and patience with the long-winded post.
@Veracity; I dont know if i fully understand what happened, but I will only say this; it helps to have a thicker skin, especially for professional life. This is harsh advice. But we all need it. Thick, thicker, thickest. You might feel like a scapegoat. But you are making a choice to feel like that. You could just shrug it off – some people be effing bleep bleeps and thats life. Frankly the boss sounds like a flake – next time laugh it off! There is no need to take this seriously, and no need to apologize or explain or take it to HR etc etc. The unfortunate thing about jobs is that yes the boss’s word is gold even and especially if he’s lying and in the wrong – that is life. Accept it, develop a sense of humor about it, see how it can work in your favor – there is no point in complaining about it, it will eat you up inside and the only person suffering will be you.
Work is not your family. They are not there to ‘protect’ you. HR will not protect you from scapegoating – they will only protect you from that which is illegal and even then not really (e.g. sexual harassment and we know how that often ends). The world is a messy place, it really is; there is politics, people play dirty etc. There are ways around this, you have to find your style of dealing with people, that style has to be professional and has to help you get ahead in your career. Perhaps playing dirty is not your style, then you dont have to. But having a thin skin isn’t an option – people will take advantage, and also it might make you blow things out of proportion.
If someone is putting their hands on you and you dont like it, stand up out of that chair and cross your arms. Yes it looks super awkward and defensive – thats good, will make that other person uncomfortable as well.
Remember – channel power and strength and professionalism. You are a professional. This is not a family, you cannot ‘require them to do so’ in terms of protecting you – you must experiment with different ways till you figure out how to make it work for you in this job. Good luck Veracity…
@ Veracity – some more. As I’ve dealt with my anxiety, I have realized I am less judgmental about myself and others. I find it easier to overlook things, to forgive people their weaknesses. And more importantly, I can now play politics much better because I dont get sucked into the moment and being reactive. I am calmer and weigh options more carefully, and think ahead more carefully. I hedge bets a bit more. I am also much better at being gracious, giving people their due, thanking, asking for advice, giving advice, helping etc etc.
So in terms of solutions; work on your anxiety. Be in a place where you are mindful – accepting the present without judgment. There are no scapegoats, there are no conspiracies. Dont work yourself up; remember, this is anxiety talking. ‘It’ wants you to be anxious, vigilant, ready for worse, rehearsing for worse. This keeps you in fact less prepared, worse prepared, more prickly, harder for people to deal with. So it actually makes things much worse for you, taking away your coping resources.
What happened was unfair to you, it surely was; but life is unfair for all of us at times, and we are strong enough to deal with it. You are. You did deal with it, you’re still standing.
I get what you are saying, Suki, I really do. Often, I am in that very place/state of mind. I am very professional and usually hold my ground. I often get told how calm I am. Unfortunately, when I’m around very dominate, aggressive people – bullies – like my father, and they are targeting me directly, a switch is flipped. At the time I freeze and then later I feel terrified and hyper vigilant. I’m working on changing it, but it’s unconscious, so it’s difficult.
I used the family analogy because that’s what this experience represents to me – a replay of the shit that happened in my family. Of course I realize this is not my family. But it does give me an excellent opportunity to face the things I had to face as a kid with new tools/awareness. I have to get past this fear/anxiety to do so effectively.
I think I’ll take the prescription anxiety meds to get me through this time. I’ve been using a homeopathic remedy instead. I’ve been experiencing chest pains for the last couple of weeks. Too much stress/anxiety. I don’t like to take them because they really mess with my memory.
I’m also going to use this anger/rage I feel now that the shock and terror have worn off and channel that into self protection. Great idea to stand up and cross my arms. I was planning on standing up – to be in a less vulnerable position. I’m also going to tell him – don’t touch me/to stop touching me and that he is in my personal space. He’s not allowed in my office anymore – there’s no reason for him to be in there.
He is targeting because he sees I am vulnerable. I’m new, soft spoken, team player, lean towards people pleasing, and my position gives me power over him yet I am in a subordinate role. I think it drives him crazy that his bulldozing hasn’t been effective, so he is upping the ante by getting physical and setting me up to take responsibility for his mistakes.
Control/dominance power plays.
This guy has crossed the line and I don’t deserve that. I’m pissed. I’ll be professional, but I’m not taking it lying down. He’s the type of person where it will just continue to escalate if I don’t. I’m sure this isn’t the first time he’s done this to someone. Unfortunately, the people who have the authority to remove him/give him serious consequences for this behavior have not done so, so he takes that as it’s okay – it emboldens him.
I’m going to document everything and if he escalates, I will quit and will let HR know why I quit. Frankly it’s just not worth it to me to work there and deal with the extremely unhealthy environment. They have a high turnover, not surprising.
Thank you, Suki. It didn’t seem harsh. I need to develop a thicker skin and find a healthier/more supportive environment.
Great plan!!
– asserting rights to personal space /boundary with pre-thought/practised sentences and awareness. Putting hands on you unasked – is a form of busting your boundaries at his will = control/reminding you who is boss – on purpose, to either gain a reaction/non reaction from you – either way you choose to react, he will have a ready reaction for you that may involve either humiliation or anger so keeping it direct and to the point, and not discussing or defending it, is crucial. I forgot to say in my older post below – I sometimes verbally state what is going on
eg Hey you are touching me! in an alarmed manner/tone or incredulously ask ‘Are you touching me?!’. ‘Personal space!’ is great, i really like it. Quick and to the point – no messing.
-documenting! This is protection indeed AND I have successfully used this before when I thought I’ll do it but never use it… it was so useful I wish I had used this before and it also shows you clearly just what IS going on and how often so you can monitor it and choose to change strategy and avoid further stuff, if needed as well as use it as evidence of harassment.
-Plan B – removing from the environment completely – having a high turn over of staff is yet more proof there is a problem they are unwilling to grapple with and in denial over – so I am really glad to read you write you will leave – it is a repeatedly unhealthy environment I read in your postings in a very short time.
Your boss – who is meant to be your support in your new place of work – openly sets you up to fail to your superiors – with no consequences! If that isn’t an aggressive form of control, I don’t know what is – he IS saying submit to all my needs or else and that is really an unacceptable place to be for any employee, especially if you can’t trust him to start with.
One last thing – have you looked at betrayal and trauma bonding? You seem to be describing the effect of trauma in your ‘freezing’ as a reaction to threat – remember the impala deer do this in order to survive the lion attack due to their vital signs going crazy all at once and shutting down temporarily – humans who have been through trauma can have the same reaction – your anxiety has a physiological effect on you, as well as emotional/mental and you will shut down temporarily – I have felt deep shame as a result of not reacting to threat – when all you are doing in reality is ensuring your survival as effectively as you can – ps this shows you how dangerous a position you are actually in, if this is being triggered.
I hope you have a much much better time…
Thank you, Oona. I will use those techniques if he does it again. Something happened, I’m not sure what, but everyone seemed to know what happened but didn’t say anything to me. It was really weird. People kept looking at me, that looking at you to see how your doing/dealing with something. That director came near my office and I immediately stood up. He seemed surprised and he seemed VERY cautious and soft spoken when he asked me a question. I think someone said something about what he did to me. All the better.
My boss did send an email saying last minute requests have to go to him. I didn’t realize this until one of the directors mentioned it in an email.
Just as an fyi, I think my boss has panic attacks too! He was having what looked to be a panic today when he didn’t realize I was behind him. Felt bad for him. I think he’s in WAY over his head.
Thank you for the heads up on trauma / betrayal bonding. I’ve always ‘known’ that I’ve had that, but hadn’t looked into it. I have been looking for a therapist, I will look for a therapist that has experience with that and PTSD.
@Veracity; absolutely dont take it lying down. I know I’m not in your shoes so I can’t say how I might react – though I have had people trying to steal my work etc. And you have to stand up for yourself but also know when that will work and when it won’t.
I guess my overall strategy tends to be – no overt complaining, no telling people not to do this or that (unless of course its criminal or threatening your physical safety). In other situations, its more important to figure out ways to 1) react and respond, 2) avoid the situation, 3) figure out and strategize how to catch the person off guard and or at their own game.
An example of 3) could be; e.g. if your office prefers women to be more ‘going along’ with things then its better not to be that no-nonsense person when the crap hits the roof. Its better to play along a bit and start saying how ‘concerned’ you are about x (and x shouldn’t be that person but something totally off topic but its more to flag to your boss that you’re ‘working so hard to figure out’ your work etc., and there are challenges that you’ve solved etc. Talk yourself up but also you’re keeping yourself in your boss’ sights which is necessary at times).
So what I’m saying is instead of going to your boss to complain about this guy, go and ‘complain’ about other things, things you’ve solved etc., which is a subtle way to also show case your work, suck up etc. I know far too many people that do no work and yet manage to talk about it too too much – you should do that since you sound like you are actually doing the work.
Similarly dont let that other guy see that you are avoiding him – he is probably feeding off your vulnerability. I dont know how you do this, send him the occasional friendly email, cc your boss, and showcase your work at the same time. Relentlessly communicate to him only on email, avoid all personal contact, and always cc your boss. If that works in your office, do it.
And finally, I trust that we can all handle these issues at work, we are strong enough to head things off at the pass. But there are times when you have to start documenting things and know when to quit, file a formal complaint etc. I agree that when you want to play hard-ball you should be totally prepared to go in to play hard-ball and not going in to ‘complain’ or for ‘protection’ – once it reaches that formal stage, you’re in it as a ruthless person (and that is how it should be, at that point you can no longer expect any niceness because you are no longer offering any yourself. You’re not saying ‘help me’ or ‘fix it please’ – you’re saying ‘no one is treating me this way and getting away with it’ and then you will have to back that with actions so you’ll have to be ready for that. This is why HR is a problem I think, going to them against a senior person is often really a matter of last resort knowing that perhaps leaving is your only choice after that).
Fight it Veracity, you can fight it in so many ways. Be strategic. And start looking for jobs.
Thank you, Suki! I really appreciate the strategies. I’m working on thinking strategically in things like this. It always feel like I’m being manipulative or doing something wrong, but I think that may be old stuff. It’s just smart and protecting myself. Playing the game.
I added a note above about thinking someone (his subordinate?) telling people about what he did. He seemed sheepish the one and only I’ve seen him. Regardless. Not dropping my guard/giving the benefit of the doubt to that one. No (choose your expletive) way!
I’m being strategic and I’m sending out a resume tonight on a promising looking job!
Feeling strong. Thanks again!
I don’t know what to say I’m horrified. I go back to the original questions –
what are YOUR NEEDS in this company – physical and emotional? The real ones, not ignoring that you have needs around trust.
what CAN you do in this situation?
Are you actually taking any steps to protect yourself from this increasingly dangerous situation? or writing/reading posts and exorcising your feelings, only to actually DO nothing active about it?
I’m feeling hurt and defensive.
*I have been actively adjusting my boundaries and expectations as I receive new information.
*I have been paying attention to my thoughts/reactions.
*I have been protecting myself by documenting conversations and sticking to the facts.
*I have been careful about who I trust/what I reveal.
*I’ve successfully suppressed/overridden my need to over give/please.
*I have been actively looking for feedback/support here to check/keep my reactions/responses healthy.
*I have been reading/ applying everything I can to stay, if possible, while still protecting myself so I can learn how to protect myself with these people, because I realize this is my issue. I have been bullied my.entire.life.
*I can and will enforce a firmer boundary with this guy as it is very clear he will do whatever it takes to get his way.
*I have told him no and he doesn’t like it.
*I have no problem stating out loud – loud enough for others to hear – that he is in my personal space and he needs to get his hand off my shoulder and that it is not okay for him to touch me.
* I will quit if that is what I need to do to protect myself.
I think I was partially wrong about my boss. I think I allowed my initial reaction to his lack of communication, the person who trained me’s opinion of him, and my issues cloud affect my judgement. His work ethic/communication style is different than mine and, in my opinion, is lacking and I do have questions about his skill level. But, I’ve mentioned before that when he is in the office he is mostly kind, patient and supportive. I think in his way he did try to support me when he left those few days. He let people know that there wasn’t going to be anyone there to sign checks – his way of supporting me – keeping me from being pushed/put in a bad position? His reply to my email was kind and thoughtful. I have no idea if he emailed it that day and something happened or if he back dated it. If he did reply that day, it was a very supportive email on his day off.
He has a much thicker skin than me, this stuff doesn’t faze him (much like what Suki described-he finds it amusing). After I told him about what happened with the director and we talked about another situation where a director responded defensively (he was In on the email) – he told me that I’m doing a great job and to keep doing what I’m doing. That they are not following guidelines and he will address it at the directors meeting. I let him know that I do not know where the land mines are.
The next day another director – the sneaky queen bee- sent me an email questioning something (I had taken care of it and my boss new it) and copied my boss. To his credit, he jumped in and told her so. He took care of it. I could be wrong, but I don’t think he was aware of the extent of what I was dealing with. I’m still cautious with him and everyone, but based on my experience with him/interactions, he has been supportive, far from perfect, but supportive.
So yes, I have done a lot more than just exorcising my feelings. I’ve been working my ass off, for myself, to learn how to protect myself without running away. I have stood my ground when what I wanted to do was run. I may not be doing it perfectly, but I’m doing it.
So yes, all things considered,
Veracity,
Yes, you have been working your ass off, and now your body is telling you it needs a break. Go have some fun. Go get a full body massage. Go relax on the beach…something…anything. You need a break. Breathe. Rest. Regain your balance.
You’re absolutely right, April Showers!! Thank you for the reminder to listen to my body and stop pushing myself too hard. I took a couple of days off and had a much needed tall microbrew (haven’t been drinking) and took myself out to a concert!
Balance restored. Lots of fun things planned for this weekend.
Thank you!
I’ve been in an experience where I was bullied at work. You’re situation is really tough, and it is not your fault.
I think its important when people respond on this blog to not immediately jump to blaming the victim or implying that they are not doing something right and that is why the behavior is happening. As someone who has experienced this sort of bullying at work, it is completely demoralizing and scary, particularly when it comes from someone who has more power.
Workplace aggression (setting someone else up to look bad, lying, touching inappropriately) is a serious problem, similar to sexual harassment. It is not at all similar to dealing with an EUM or AC. There is a power dynamic here that changes the rules.
Veracity, I recommend looking at some articles and blogs specific to bullying in the workplace, etc. Unfortunately the best recourse is often to find another job.
Yes Weezy I agree – the victim is definitly not at fault.
Speaking for myself I am trying to ask questions so that Veracity can see what she can do for herself and if there is something she hasn’t done that may help her?
I have a friend who is CONSTANTLY late for everything. I don’t know how she has got away with it at work for years (more than 10 years) but her excuse is she is often there late when others have gone – like that somehow makes up for it!
When I have called her on it she says ‘but I wouldn’t be interesting if I don’t have a little quirk’ – er, NO!
BTW, she has a car and I have to take public transport and she is still always late. Reading this post has made me think whether it is passive aggressiveness on her part or does she just spread herself too thin? A bit of both I think as she often spontaneously takes little detours even when we are running late for something else. I have tried to explain that her lateness causes me a lot of anxiety and stirs up my feelings of abandonment – but she either dismisses it or apologises and says it won’t happen again – but of course it does!
It is important to me to be on time and I think it does show disrespect to others to be late repeatedly. My father would often be late to pick me up from after school activities – mostly because he was chatting to a woman. When I would complain about it he would say ‘but I’m here now, aren’t I? At least I didn’t forget you….’ Which did happen from time to time. Yep, thanks Dad.
She justifies that behavior by making a “funny” (NOT) out of it? Manipulative.
I had a friend who did this over and over; would change plans, or just stand me up. Finally, she stood me up at yet another movie. I was sitting there thinking “Damnit, she better be in the hospital for an excuse this time,” and when I realized I was thinking this I realized our “friendship” was over.
She apologized the next day, sort of, in a text; “Oh, I got busy with my day and totally forgot!” I didn’t respond. She wanted to talk; I didn’t respond.
I realized that I was treating her like a priority, when she was treating me like an option. Feck that!!!
Oona,
I hear what you are saying.
It is not your fault that you have been treated badly in your life by people you should have been able to trust to love and support you.
I was just wondering if one of your ways to protect yourself in those instances was to stop ‘showing up’ so to speak. Understandably so.
The issue with the therapist seems to have stuck with you and of course too what your ex did the one time you were late.
I just wanted to help get you thinking on what could be behind those feelings now.
I find when I’m asked questions- I start to think about situations in new ways or how I’ve always thought about them is cemented.
With love
Bx
No it wasn’t my conscious intention, I was working hard to be on time. But I do think there was Countertransferance of some kind from the therapist over the issue because she didn’t handle it well – hense why she went nuts – twice – and then lots of weeks not mentioning it at all – making me feel I had actually been on time then and not actually fully aware of the full weekly problem, or the seriousness.
The issue behind my feelings now are to do with me feeling let down by people who I depended on and also over responsible for issues that were mistakes I have rectified – and not perpetual ongoing problem’s or crimes – as some would have people feel, in order to dump guilt about their own fallibility’s.
Perspective – balance, rather than black or white thinking – about myself – let alone what anyone else thinks or asserts on me.
Hi MJ,
Replying in a new thread.
I am more the acceptor of others being late, than being late myself, but I “get it” and think that I am prone to something related that manifests in a different way.
I struggle with staying organized and know that’s something I need to work on. Organized as in “stuff” – in my house, on my desk, in my car. It doesn’t really affect me, as in being late, but I sense a connection. Both are ways of maintaining a touch of chaos. I know there’s some thought behind the idea that when everything’s in order physically, such as house, desk, car, then what needs to be in order emotionally rises to the surface. So I don’t fling my chaos at others by being late, but I live in that state of feeling… Ugh “someday” I need to take care of abc and then I could enjoy xyz. Not sure if I’m making sense. Does anyone relate to what I’m trying to say?
Why is it that when I was with BGE I felt super motivated to be organized but now for the last year+ I have been mostly apathetic about taking care of these same things? I remember once reading that we need three things in order: home, health, heart.
Sorry, not trying to change the topic, but the chaos connection between organized with time and organized with stuff struck me this morning.
Say Something,
I know a project will never replace having the love of your life. But consider taking on a project to keep your mind occupied. I organized my master bedroom closet (shoes, hand bags, jewelry, color coded and sorted clothes). Saves so much TIME. It is hard to be late when you have ORDER in your life.
For me when I am broken hearted the last thing I want to see is a dirty house or things out of order. My cars are show room clean. No one is allowed to eat or breathe in them(lol). Just half kidding.
My whole point was to help you take your mind off of your pain. But even if this doesn’t work for you maybe there is a project that you can do that you enjoy. Get inspired to do a project look at these websites (below). I know why you felt motivated when he (JERK/LIAR) was around because feeling loved and wanted is special. It helps to have that special someone around. You have the most important person around right now that you need to LOVE- YOURSELF. Put yourself up on that pedestal and take care of YOU. It is hard to do this when your focus is on him.
I went to dinner with someone I was hoping to cultivate a new friendship with. At the end of our dinner she told me that she is engaged and spends most of her time with him and that she has a best friend who complains she never spends time with her. For whatever reason it has been tough for me to develop new friendships. People are so busy and all they want to do is text. I get it. The loneliness is tough, but I keep thinking of things to do. When my mind drifts I read or journal.
I hope you get inspired to tackle a project while you search for the love of your life.
MJ
http://www.abowlfulloflemons.net/
MJ,
You. Heart of gold. Putting time and effort into new friendships. I’m sure it stung and felt dismissive to hear that she’s engaged and that her time is limited. My friendships are limited as well. Their time is primarily spent with spouses and family. Remember my story a few months ago of the friend that drunkenly, blatantly hit on me? I only see her around other people and there’s never been mention of the incident ever again. Plus she’s newly married in the last year. WTF. Anyhow, although tangential, I do feel like time is slipping away and my life is being wasted. This whole “being late” post makes me feel like I’m late to my own life. Maybe it’s just unhappiness, loneliness, dissatisfaction?
Say Something,
You are so sweet. Thank you for your support. After the dinner I sent her my phone number. Of course she never replied (lol). We live near each other. I just thought it would be nice to go to movies or dinner with her sometimes. She is engaged to a former athlete who was a super star and is now on TV. So, I know she is busy. It did sting a little when she basically said don’t count on seeing me I have a man. I am not upset I use to be the same way.
Yep I was engaged at one point and consumed with him. Now, I am alone. I so wish I had cultivated friendships. In terms of time. This painful experience has led me to waste time. Initially, I was so absorbed with PAIN. The days went by so fast and I never accomplished anything. How could I just put my life on hold? I did NOTHING but grieve. Day in and day out. Now, I have nothing but time on my hands. I can sit and iron all my summer clothes (which I did). I already packed for my July vacation that I am taking alone. Send me your chore list and I will knock it out (smile). He use to help me do projects and it was so much fun. How could that SOB do this to me?
Today, I thought too far ahead. Xmas is my favorite time of year. I believe I will still be alone then. I hate the thought. I am going to take a vacation again but I should not think too far ahead.
I don’t want to keep wasting time. I am wasting away my life like you point out. It is a good feeling to take on a project and actually do it ALONE. I could have written 3 books during the time I sat in pain from being cheated on.
Sorry. It’s that time of the month (smile) my mood takes on a dark hue. I am spending time thinking of projects I can do that will actually help my community. I am just trying to stay focused. Unhappiness and loneliness consume time and accomplish very little. I am about to take some more ACTION and do a couple of projects today.
MJ
I know a project will never replace having the love of your life.
Wanna bet??
I’m not going to dig holes 🙂
Ok no digging holes. Ethelreda seems to think it would work.
Hi, Say Something. I just want to chime in and say I think I understand what you mean – there is something to chaos ‘within’ manifesting as chaos in our environment. In 2010, when I decided to have a repeat go round with the single PA EUM I’ve known for years, I remember that it wasn’t until I was heating something up for him that I noticed how filthy my microwave interior was. Why didn’t I notice that for myself? Then I noticed how much I had let neatness “go” in my environment. Letting things become more disheveled than usual in my physical surroundings coincided with my taking up with two emotionally unavailable men in 2010. Meaning my house chaos came first, then the two ACs. And now that I am learning to steer my life, I am creating a lot more order in my home.
MJ/ Elgie R,
Thank you both for your responses. For me, there is definitely something going on with my time. But it’s not lateness with appointments and meeting others. It’s lateness, procrastination, and sometimes doing nothing when it comes to personal projects and things at home.
@MJ, I checked out the project pages. Years ago, I would be printing out ideas. Getting excited and buying materials. Starting and not finishing. Now I say WOW and it feels overwhelming. I will never be organized to your level, but I have much to improve. I LIKE organized, but I sabotage.
BGE was “going to” help me with my “To Do” list. He WANTED to. He started. I was thrilled. Then he disappeared. My house is older, so there are definitely things that need fixing beyond my capability and budget. I can clean, paint, and do minor plumbing. Anyhow I NEED to focus on my house. I didn’t want to do it alone. I will say it again like some sort of confession. I didn’t want to do it alone. I was married for 20 yrs to someone who resisted and refused to tackle projects with me, thus I now have many.
@Elgie R, just looked inside my microwave and yep, it needs to be cleaned! You still remember that moment from 5 years ago… I was actually MORE aware of my surroundings while with BGE. I didn’t want things to look bad FOR HIM. I think he was definitely PA too, if anything.
I spent all of Saturday cleaning and decluttering. I guess THIS is the big project I need to tackle. Initially, I believed this particular post didn’t pertain to me. Instead, it has made me once again think about my time management. I spend so much time thinking, reading, wishing. When I actually start “doing” I often get distracted. But I am careful not to allow this aspect of my life affect others. I only shortchange myself.
Years ago I subscribed to:
http://www.flylady.net/
For anyone who struggles with time management and staying organized, I suggest a visit to her website.
Anyhow, I think I’m seeing (again, because I’ve recognized it before) that my internal chaos of not being at peace, of not fully accepting that BGE just disappeared, doesn’t care, and THAT’S JUST WHO HE IS, negatively affects me on multiple levels. I am avoiding being at peace within my own home. I am spending my time recklessly when all this alone time (which feels endless) could be directed at chaos eviction.
I’m constantly a little late everywhere. Classes, concerts, movies, and of course meetings and appointments. Once in a while I show up on time. I think it is a combination of a presence of anxiety in my life and inability/disliking context switching.
In general I think being late is a complex topic. It’s an awful habit and sometimes it is nothing but a crappy coping mechanism.
We shouldn’t just label people who are late to be narcissistic and cut them from our life. True, because of their lack of control in their lives they might be getting a quick control fix on your account by being late to your meeting. But if this is your friend or your lover perhaps you might want to try to take a higher perspective. Talk to them, help them dig deeper to understand what are some other (sometimes it is internal and illusive) issues they are having that are making them late. They just might be completely unaware. Sometimes just talking about it, making them aware that they have a hidden problem will sooth them and help them deal with their problem and as a result also loose this coping mechanism. True, it is the job of a psychiatrist but often some of us are not open to see one and might not even realize we need one. In summary, what I call for is for a healthy dose of compassion and a higher level of perception from the victim: not giving the people who are late a pass and not instantly dismissing them, but talking about it in a healthy, understanding way. People are late and it’s (probably always) because of them and not you.
The trouble is, you’d be in danger of straying into ‘Florence’ territory if you expend a lot of energy attempting to fix your partner’s lateness. As has been said on here time and again, it’s not your job to teach a grown person how to be respectful – that was their parent[s]’ job.
Tardygirl. You are trying yo blame other people for getting upset about you being late? You are calling them inconsiderate for not understanding your lateness? So first, you are always late and then you are not accepting responsibility and blaming the other people for calling you out on it? Grow up!
I had a boyfriend in college who would be 2-3 hours late. I sat there in my dorm room, showered, hair curled, makeup on…. and waited. And waited. And waited. Getting more and more infuriated.
But because i valued him more than I valued myself, because I was grateful that he showed up at all (confirming my worthiness) I let it continue.
Now I have an utterly inflexible 15 minute rule.
I’ll give someone 15 minutes after our agreed upon time.
At 16 minutes, i either order from the waitress (if it is in a restaurant) and plan to begin eating when the food arrives — or i simply leave. No explanations, no recriminations, no guilt.
I’m just gone and on my merry way.
Believe me, people have learned FAST. If it’s someone who genuinely cares about me, they aren’t ever more than 10 minutes late again.
They manage to accommodate for possible traffic, be responsible, and leave early enough to get to our appointed meeting place without any issues.
The ones who don’t care usually call sometime afterwards and whine about how could I leave them, but then somehow manage not to reschedule, and it’s the easiest way to weed these ‘not-really-friends’ or potential romantic partners out without drama.
Once someone asked me how i could be “so rigid”. I looked at them and said, “I could never be interested in someone who thinks it’s okay to be disrespectful of my time.”
When I was in high school, I had a friend who was always late. We walked to school together. I used to stand there and wait on her. Of course I was late for school, and I still didn’t learn my lesson when I was punished for being late by my teacher; whereas, her teacher was lenient, and she went unpunished.
I absolutely hate being late.
I am the person who arrives before the doors open.
In the past, I can remember being late on purpose. …power plays…politics. Yep. But, my superiors couldn’t nail me for it because it was the nature of the work environment to be detained for important reasons.
I don’t do this anymore. My mentality has changed, and I’ve become skilled at dealing with adversity. …still learning, but getting better at it. 🙂
I used to be “always running late,” (but still making it on time), transitioning from one task, commitment to another because I overextended myself in favor of doing everything I was asked for everyone, and of course I had to do it perfectly. Extremely others-focused, I was some sort of Tasmanian-‘angel.’
Hyped-up on selflessness, I helped many, many people.
One day, I gasped at my reflection–I’d fed myself to swine.
The pay off was a sense of purose, mixed with superiority, comfort, competence, and…I was motivated …, happy with my accomplishments, until I realized how much other people were sucking me dry, (…duped…taken advantage of…people needed to get up off their lazy asses and do it their damn-selves…not my responsibility! Wtf, was I doing?)…, and how little I was actually doing for myself.
I was disrespecting myself and my time. These were my choices, and I believed I was doing the ‘right’ thing.
At a minimum, it was misguided, and at at the maximum it was a selfless-destruction of Self, and not what I believe my Creator intended, as the meaning of service.
I have some great memories. I did some of my best work, but I definitely learned my lesson…blah.
Also, I want to add, while I was florencing about, I was living my values, following my family traditions…definitely some outdated coping mechanisms, and I have to smile because some people didn’t even ask me for my help, lol!
@Oona,
My mom used to do the same thing to us ‘kids’; we had to wait for her after practice for hours. We used to get angry and pout, and she would tell us “You better be glad I bothered to pick you up at all.” And my ba$t@rd of a father told us to walk home; it was about three miles.
One of my sisters learned to walk home. I learned to bum rides. I hated asking people for rides all the time.
There was this debilitating, shameful feeling I used to get when confronted with the idea that my parents didnt do for me what other parents did for their children with ease. You get a sense of what’s normal, and you learn your family isn’t normal, and so neither are you.
It’s really effed-up. I deserved better.
I’ll be %$#@ed if I won’t take care of me now. I deserve all the love I can give me. I am so worthy of my own respect and love, and especially my time. I’m my top priority. Besides, I have guaranteed appreciation for everything I do for me. 🙂
Yep you are right – you know its not the norm when you are the only person left standing there, every week – I hated that doorway – I knew it better than my own frontdoor and it was as exposed as anything.
We moved home when I was about nine to about six miles away so I was a bit more isolated after 5 years of this class but I can remember contemplating the bus at quite an early age and feeling absolutely fearless about it. I asked before to walk with others if they lived near me but this often wasn’t allowed or they weren’t going home and had to be arranged before hand – from this – I know my mother would have killed me if I’d not have been there when she turned up – probably from having a heart attack thinking that something would have happened to me ironically – the worst thing that happened to me in my life stemmed from learned behaviour because of my parents over many experiences – they don’t teach you that in school but they do teach – stranger danger. The most confusing thing was finding that strangers were actually kinder and more attentive than my own parents and this was a bad thing? Really confusing to a child.
I think the overwhelming feeling, I was left with, was that I felt angular, awkward, gangly, ugly duckling that was trapped in bad situations I couldn’t see a choice to or handle – and definitely no swan – and that was why no one cared about me hense my coping mechanism of completely shutting down my feelings regularly and fantasizing that when I am bigger things won’t be this way – no they weren’t – they got worse until I woke up and had the shock of my life – everything I had been feeling WAS right – love doesn’t feel like pain.
Hmmmm, none of my ex’s were ever late. They were always on time.
There was one guy who didn’t follow through on plans to come out and see me. He never booked his flight, but I broke up with him for something else, prior to that discovery. He was a patholigical liar who I sussed out fairly quickly.
My parents were on time to their activities. They stressed the importance of being on time when it suited them. But if it didn’t suit them, they could care less.
@andy,
When faced with the completion of a complex, diificult, or new task, I work it backwards. So, you start with your goal and plan it back. So for example, if you want to cook dinner by 5:00 pm, you start with 5:00 pm, and then calculate your cooling time, then cooking time, then preparation, etc, all the way back to the beginning, task, and then you know how much time you need. Plus you give yourself some wiggle room.
I like this method because you start with a visualization of what you want to accomplish.
Also, it helps me with my anxiety because I can break the steps down, and prioritize better. Also, I discover the easy steps to do, which help give me a sense of accomplishment and encouragement to complete the harder steps, etc.
My post goes more with respecting my time. I am very busy working full time and getting may masters degree, and I met a guy who was generally last minute unless I planned ahead on a Sunday or during the week which he would follow (granted this is not an important Friday or Saturday night, no not enough to prove he’s worth my time). Anyway, he would text me I miss you, wish you were with me tonight on Sunday-Thursday and in 5 weeks time disappeared on me two Fridays and one Saturday in a short period of time with ridiculous sob stories as an afterthought. My last straw was when we had plans to go to dinner because he insisted on meeting up and I insisted me pick me up like a gentleman for once and he said what time and I responded 7:30 and got ready to no response the entire night. He then text me (not even a phone call) I’m sorry I drank too much and left my phone at my friend’s place. I was so angry I didn’t even respond and next day he called me to “talk” about the events that had happened and I believed him when he said he was truly sorry and wanted it to change and to make it work because he really liked me to be followed by a Wednesday night he finally came to my house where I turned out anything past a make out (never slept with this man, thank god!) to then when I asked on Thursday what he was doing for his birthday Friday he out of nowhere didn’t respond and didn’t even invite me to his own bday party. Then Saturday he proceeds to tell me he misses me and wishes he were with me at 6 pm as I was already busy, because this chick has a life. As a last attempt as we texted back and forth on Sunday I invited him to join my friends and I for mimosas and after an hour of not responding (because when I put myself out there this is his MO) I ripped him a new one! I told him he’s not worth another second of my life and his actions clearly show his words are bullshit. I do not for one second regret voicing this. This has confirmed I have grown self love immensely from the girl who would take anything she could get to the woman who knows she’s a pretty damn beautiful, ambitious, kind hearted, and amazing person to ever accept anybody’s bs crumbs. I have come a long way
I have a friend who was always late. I haven’t planned anything with her in a long time, so I forgot how annoying this was, but that was the reason I stopped planning with her. We just talk on the phone, keeps me sane.
Ok, so I had a couple dates with a guy I met at a party. We are supposed to go out to a movie tomorrow, he called and left a message a couple days ago saying let’s go for a movie Monday night. I called him back on the same day and left a message and it’s Sunday night and he hasn’t called me back to arrange anything. I do not want to call him again and if he calls me late tomorrow about this I will say I have other plans, actually I was going to go out of town to visit my parents. I think it’s rude that he didn’t call me back to confirm and make plans. I am NOT impressed. Am I overreacting?
Also, I met him with a friend and she happens to live close to him, I’m about a 45 min drive for him. He asked me about my friend on both dates, things like am I close to her (asked on date one) then how often do I hang out with her (asked on date 2). I didn’t like this as I felt like he wanted to get to know her too because she lived closer to him.
Not sure what to make of this. Could be a red flag.
whatever, this guy sounds disrespectful. Trust your gut. It’s telling you the truth about him.
If you think it’s rude, IT IS. And you were unimpressed. Your opinion is the only one that should count here.
I wouldn’t be very pleased with someone who kept asking about another (available) woman on what were supposed to be dates with me.
Trust your gut. You’re doing fine.
Ethelreda
Turns out that he didn’t end up calling at all!!! And we were supposed to have a date last night and tomorrow. I guess that’s over and done with.
Whatever,
I think for sure then you have to let this one go. It sucks getting our hopes up to then be let down and shown we did for nothing doesn’t it? I was just seeing the guy in my post above for a month (who I was crushing on for years at my gym) and he also did the same and made plans and didn’t go through twice. Really liked this one too. I have been bummed all week about it but had to let him go because I wasn’t happy with being involved either. Having someone unreliable is hurtful and not worth the stress for the little bit of companionship you get.
Four hours late to a date??!?! That is so incredibly rude, I hope your friend dropped him. I know someone who is almost always late. And you are absolutely right, this person avoids conflict and is a people pleaser who thinks he can build up good behavior credits. I never saw it this way until I found your blog