Whenever I hear stories about casual arrangements / relationships (oxymoron’s in themselves) and the ‘driver’ of the situation insists that they have it all “under control” and that they’re both “grownups” and other such guff, I end up having to sit back and watch the ticking time bomb count down. I just know that they’re operating under a misapprehension that the other party is ‘down’ with the casual arrangement, and they often convince themselves that their conscience is clear because they’ve been upfront. The other party is often downplaying how they truly feel and doesn’t see things as being so ‘upfront’ that they’re not contending with mixed messages.
In reality, casual relationships are never as under control as we would like them to be, we may both be grownups but that doesn’t mean that we’re free to do whatever we like with no regard for the impact of our actions, and ‘upfront’ is a used and abused term that people who are the ‘driver’ in the casual relationship hide behind to absolve themselves of responsibility. It’s like “I told you I didn’t want a relationship or even that I’m not that interested in you, so if you’ve hung around, even if it’s been partly down to my flip-flapping ways, it’s not my problem.”
I recently had a Mr Unavailable complain about this very type of situation blowing up in his face. It’s not that he wasn’t ‘upfront’…it’s just that he was only upfront on a need to know basis. If she’d known the full story (that he’d begun a relationship of sorts with someone else), I doubt she’d have given him the steam off her pee, never mind continued ‘dating’ him for a rather lengthy period of time.
The key with these so-called ‘casual relationships’, which lets be real, are never really that casual as most of us cannot handle being treated or regarded casually, is that upfront, as in being totally honest about what the state of play is, is the only way to go.
The trouble is that the type of person who is going to be particularly interested in having a casual relationship is going to 1) be wary of experiencing conflict and 2) even more concerned about endangering the sex and ego stroking supply. There’s also a possible #3 – being afraid of looking like an assclown.
I know a guy who was told by his Miss Unavailable that it was just sex and fun but that it was only him that she’s seeing. Unfortunately he found out that she’s actually got about four guys on rotation and was very wounded. He knew that they weren’t in a relationship but insists that if he’d known he was one of four, he’d have stopped seeing her. To be fair, he should have stopped seeing her when she didn’t want a relationship and he was falling in love. She says that she didn’t want to hurt his feelings by telling him the truth. Yeah, I wonder how that’s working out for her… In truth though, it’s because she didn’t want to run the risk of losing his adoring ways altogether…which she has now.
Some of us don’t like the truth at the time when we hear it but ultimately appreciate the value of it when our ego’s have settled down.
As I said to the Mr Unavailable who knew he didn’t want a relationship a few weeks into us seeing each other, but decided to keep that card close to his chest for another 5 months, I would have appreciated the truth so that I could make an educated decision about what I did or didn’t want to be involved in. If I was in possession of all of the facts and persisted anyway, I couldn’t really argue with his actions. That said, I was in possession of the facts of his flaky actions but as is the case with these situations, there was contradictory behaviour including pursuit on his part.
Being ‘upfront’ actually means being honest even in the face of discomfort and possible conflict because you have to step up and boldly lay out the truth.
It’s like selling you a car that I know has a whole load of problems. I could keep it to myself and let you buy it and deal with the inevitable fallout later, or I could be upfront about the issues, negotiate a fair price or find a buyer who is happy to go with the car as it is. Of course the casual relationship ‘driver’ will argue that the person should do their due diligence and check out the car, likely claiming that they know the risk involved.
Upfront isn’t giving 70/80/90 or whatever percent of the story and leaving out the crucial element that is not only likely to cause conflict, but would certainly sway the other person to make an entirely different decision.
“I’m not at all interested in having a relationship” but for instance, neglecting to mention that they’ve actually been courting a relationship with someone else or sleeping with you and several others at the same time. It’s one thing if you sign up to be the Other Woman / Man or knowingly sleep with someone who is sleeping around, but it’s pretty damn shady for you to be unwittingly involved in this. Especially if you actually do your due diligence and ask about the existence of other parties.
It’s also not upfront, to be ‘upfront’ at the beginning and then keep your mouth zipped while the other party is clearly running with a different version of events but you’re not correcting it.
It’s definitely not upfront to say that you don’t want a relationship and that you’re not interested, only to then have contradictory behaviour.
Upfront is words and actions. If you know that someone feels more for you than you do them, instead of hanging around for all you can get while telling yourself that you were very frank and direct about your feelings and intentions, you step.
If you have the choice between receiving honesty or turning a blind eye and having blind faith in someone who would deign to have you in a casual relationship in the first place, I’d opt for honesty, which may mean opting out.
Upfront also cuts both ways though – if they say they want casual and you want more, say so, because trying to use casual relationships as a back door route to a ‘proper’ relationship will backfire spectacularly. It’s also important not to mislead the other party by pretending that you’re ‘down with it’ because the moment that you show that you’re not, they’ll use all of those times that you pretended to be OK as a get out clause for absolving themselves of responsibility.
Being upfront means being honest which means getting uncomfortable – casual relationships invariably involve at least one, if not both of you misrepresenting yourselves, even if it’s not ‘intended’.
I was told that it’s “emotionally immature” to expect someone to be upfront in the sense of being honest with the full facts, which is feeding into this notion that honesty is dead and that if you’re a grownup you can figure out who and what someone is, even if they are contrary and contradictory.
Actually it’s emotionally immature to treat responsibility like a hot potato and to exploit someone else’s vulnerability and naivety. That’s not to say that we’re not responsible for ourselves, but we also have to be conscientious about ‘impact’ especially when emotions and sex are involved.
If you’re thinking you probably shouldn’t mention something… it means that you probably should.
Your thoughts?
Discover more about why you’re not wearing a sign on your forehead or giving off a not good enough scent in book and ebook Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, plus if you’d like to work on your self-esteem this summer, sign up for my Build Your Self-Esteem eCourse or The No Contact ecourse.
About the Author:
Natalie Lue is the founder and writer of Baggage Reclaim and author of the books Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship and more. Learn more about her here and you can also follow her on Facebook and Twitter - @baggagereclaim .
Natalie (NML) – who has written 1092 posts on Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue.
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The start of that last message was addressed to Happy B!
FX
I understand what yr going through as my situation was very similar. I too managed NC for mths at a time, multiple times, before ending it for good, which I wasnt able to do until I learned the truth. I agree that hanging around anywhere to try to get info to the new g/f would be a drain on you. It also runs the risk of coming across as a bit stalkerish which it wouldn’t be if you only saw her once, passed the info along & left it at that. I also was pee’d off at myself for ‘wasting time’ even THINKING abt the AC. It’s a shame there isn’t some way you could just phone the new g/f to give her the info. In my case there were also issues that he was having unprotected sex. For many reasons, in my case, knowing where the other party worked & her first name at least, I finally called there one day explained in brief the nature of my call & who I was. She immediately gave me her mobile number & asked me to call her back on that, which I did. We then had three phone calls over a 10 day period where we ‘compared notes’ & sussed out the true extent of his infidelity. She was VERY happy that I called as she had suspected something was going on but had no proof. She wasn’t angry with me at all & rather we both recognised that the one to be angry with, was the AC, as he’d played us both like fiddles (& there were OTHERS also! ugh!!)
I have not spoken to the xAC since & I don’t intent to. I got rid of the other parties number & left it at that. I believe they seperated for 6 mths & recently reconciled. I don’t care in the least though. In my situation, revealing the truth finally set me free for once & for all. It’s not my place to tell you what to do & I don’t know all of the details of yr sitch but hope that sharing my experience is helpful in some small way. Good luck with it all & I look forward to hearing how things pan out. T
teachable, Thanks for your reply. I don’t have an easy way to get a message to the gf so it probably would involve stalker-like behavior… As much as I’m burning to pass a letter w/proof to her, unless something changes, I probably won’t.
I still can’t believe I re-entered a casual relationship with him after everything in our history. Very foolish. When he started pursuing me again, I even joked that he’d have to be dosed with Truth Serum first! After I found him out, I wondered why he was blowing so hot if he had a new girlfriend. What happened to the honeymoon phase in that relationship?!! I actually think he just wanted to conquer me and punish me for rejecting him during my last NC.
He is truly an AC and he and the drama were an unhealthy and unproductive addiction I should have quit cold turkey long ago. I guess I kept thinking I could be the exception but I am done looking for the right relationship with the wrong person.
PS In cases like ours, where we were led to think the AC was single & unknowingly tricked into being an OW never realising there was someone else all along, there really is no shame at having done the wrong thing, so no harm in letting the OW know. NOT telling all raises questions for me as a motive this can be trying to avoid raising the ire of the AC by exposing him, which in turn, can be related to leaving a back door to the situation open. In my case I wanted that door firmly shut & now that it is I feel 100% better. If I was the betrayed woman on the other end I would also WANT to know what had been going on behind my back. To me the sisterhood always comes first. AC’s are just a waste of space who deserve all they get & then some!
I have to get all of this off my chest. I caused my anguish by creeping his profile page since I thought we could be friends again after 7 mths of NC with the EUM.
- I feel extreme pain and jealousy all of a sudden
- Someone is sharing their feelings, laughs and time with MY person
- I feel betrayed
- I feel competitive and insecure that she is physically attractive and athletic
- I’m sad that he is sharing his experiences with her
- The girls all look the same (type), they are tall and blonde, I’m so different
- I regret that it didn’t end sooner between him & I
- Mad that I’m seeing validation or some form of contact with him (source of pain)
- I must have tricked myself into thinking we could be friends
- I thought I was over it
- How can I feel this miserable over a harmless fb post
- What does he think about me and how poorly (NC) I took on rejection
- Is he falling for her?
- I’m still in the same place I was before (I was alone when I was with him – EUM, I’m alone now)
- I wonder if she is of the same ethnicity as him and if his family approves just based on this fact
- I doubt my ability to trust and get close to someone new / more suitable to me
- Change is petrifying after 6 1/2 yrs of back and forth
- Being in a committed relationship is even scarier, I wish for it, then run from it
- Everyone in my close group of friends is settling down, I lack roots
- I have only had this one casual “relationship”/ friends with benefits my whole life, other short flings aside
- Friends feel sad for me that though I have tons to offer, I keep wasting it on that one individual who fails to see it
- How is this ever going to change, I’m doing all the right things to grow past it, let it go, but I’m still not there
- Trying to remind myself that what he does in his life is none of my business
- Is this it? How much can you ever let go? Clearly it’ll remain a part of me
- I have a lot of tension over a little post, what’s going to happen when he marries another? Will I fall over and die/
- I all of a sudden feel unsure of myself
- I know I have a lot to give, but am having trouble trusting anyone new
- Is he treating her better, wish he had treated me better
- Bestfriend said, “That’s it, you go back 1 more time and NO ONE will support it.”
- He is finally moving on, he meant it this time, that is coming as a shock…
Atrophy,
Have you sought counseling?
- How is this ever going to change, I’m doing all the right things to grow past it, let it go, but I’m still not there.
You’re not doing the FIRST right thing – getting him off your FB In fact, I recommend deactivating your account. You can reactivate it again in a month or so, it’s not a big deal.
Everything else you do counts for nought if you’re going to keep with the FB.
-Clearly it will remain a part of me
No, it really won’t.
Get Nat’s dreamer book. It’s hard to move past fantasy and the delusion. It DOES take time and effort. It does require you to CHANGE but it’s doable. Stop feeding yourself these lies.
You fear having nothing if you give this up. I believe that you would feel better than you can possibly imagine.
Atrophy,
As a veteran of fantasy and barely there relationships, I can tell you one of my experiences of trying to start something with someone who a) was reluctant, b) had 2 weeks to go before they flew out of the country on a year long exchange!
I was so focused on keeping up with them in the hope that when they came back we FINALLY could start something, as surely, it was the fact that they were going overseas was the reason they couldn’t be with me – right?
Wrong – when they came back after a year, they appeared to be with someone else. Not only that but ALL THE PAIN CAME BACK – it was really unbelieveable. I spent another year trying to get validation from them and hoping that we could still be friends – so there you go – TWO YEARS down the loo, and we didn’t even sleep together once!
After 6.5 years of yo yo girl, trust me, even IF he does change, 99.99% of the time he has been a total ASSANOVA to you. The only way out is NC and some psychology to get to the root cause of the issue.
Don’t go back – you’ve been back there a bazillon times. Why would it be any different this time? Timing is not the issue, him being an asshole to you *is*.
Dear Atrophy.
I go through your long………………………. list everyday myself. I have been dealing for 3 years. I think he is finally done with me now I need to be done with him and am struggling to move forward. I wish there was a pill to take to make all of him leave my head.
I worry that this will never stop.
dawn
Atrophy
I’m sharing your pain! I have struggled too not to care anymore. I’ve been NC for a long time and I still have sudden pangs of terrible hurt over it. Thankfully, my ex doesn’t do face book or anything similar; I know it would be too great a temptation for me not to look. I guess the only thing to note here is that you broke NC by looking at his f/bk page and you are experiencing the consequences. Lesson learned… stay away.
It helps me when I focus on how NONE of your list matters anymore cos it’s over and done. Nat’s advice on a previous posting: ‘learn acceptance’ summed up for me what I was striving to do in all of this. I knew that was what I needed to achieve, and I was, and am, little by little, day by day. Odd that I found ‘acceptance’ such a struggle in this relationshit cos it’s something I do pretty well in other areas of my life – I think these situations, these casual, on again off again frustrating and unfulfilling relationships, (especially when they become protracted over years as mine was) are deeply and relentlessly hurtful and become so heavily bound up with what we think of ourselves that it feels almost impossible to get over them. I am the adult child of an alcoholic father, have lost close family members to death, I was abandoned by the father of my child to raise her on my own (22 years ago now), and yet this ex EUM relationshit has caused me more profound and confusing grief (and hurt) than anything else I have ever experienced.
Just want you to know that there is someone here who understands. Fight for acceptance of what has happened, don’t dwell on what is beyond your control, make sure this shit never happens to you again and most of all, to that end, accept that it is over with him. say your goodbyes, and thank god that in being over it means your hurt can now end, if you let it.
Atrophy,
So so so sorry for your pain and sorrow. At one point, I could have written everything you expressed. There’s no way to be “friends” based on your feelings and his actions. You cannot be treated as an option or play second fiddle. You will grow past this. I agree 100%, change is petrifying and I was alone when I was “with him”. You ask: “How is this ever going to change, I’m doing all the right things to grow past it, let it go, but I’m still not there.” Me too. However, I am firmly committed to not going back to a casual FBG. I’m not sure where I’m going either. But I’m not going back. As Natalie and the other wonderful ladies have advised me: Let. It. Go. You will not fall over and die if he marries another. I really appreciated the visual. Since the ex AC was already married, it made me snicker. Here is what you do: 1) Do not cyber stalk him.
2) Get something do to that doesn’t involve him. 3) Limit the amount of time you spend thinking about him. 4) Spend 10 minutes a day thinking about you. 5) Spend more time each day thinking about you than you spend thinking about him. Add it up. It’s scary. 6) Do something that makes you feel good every day. We don’t need guys to make us feel good. Ok, so now I’m going to go back and re-read everything I said to you… cos it applies to me! My fingers are crossed for us!
Atrophy,
I’m so sorry to hear your having all these thoughts. I’m very familiar with them myself, and I’ve done the same thing of looking someone up and then realising that ignorance is most definitely bliss. The four points that I really can connect with are:
- Being in a committed relationship is even scarier, I wish for it, then run from it
- Everyone in my close group of friends is settling down, I lack roots
- I have only had this one casual “relationship”/ friends with benefits my whole life, other short flings aside
- Friends feel sad for me that though I have tons to offer, I keep wasting it on that one individual who fails to see it
I would really recommend seeing a therapist. I was unsure at first, it seemed a bit extreme after just a break up, but I’ve learned so much about myself and why I think the way I do and once you start to understand these things you see everything in a different way and it’s much easier to be more rational.
It’s not him that is causing you this pain, it’s yourself. I’ve been through exactly the same thing where my confidence has been completely worm to nothing and my mood was based ENTIRELY on how he was being with me that day. Fortunately you can fix yourself, and learn to forget about him.
Hi Atrophy
Like the posters who have answered you already I can relate to what you wrote.
I truly felt like I was going round the bend with my thinking it was all focused on
him last thought at night first thought in morning dreams in between.
I didn’t think it would end the obsessed thinking the questions I wanted answered.
But it did thank goodness.
Things that helped me were keeping a note book and pouring out all my thoughts and anxiety into it it turned into many many notebooks filled with my angst but it helped and you can say and do it in any fromat you like.
No one is going to read it.
I deleted his number from my phone I had a terrible texting habit I put his number in a hard to get to place it saved me from sending many a text.
I joined a gym it is amazing how much phyiscal exercise can help I walked that tredmill in anger sadness etc etc but I started to set goals for myself and focus on something other than him. This has led to completing a charity run again the focus is off him.
I posted a lot on here on took on board what people had to say in response.
Natalie’s one repeated question to me was ‘what are you avoiding in your own life that you keep focusing on him?’ maybe you could ask yourself this.
And one thought that really kept me going was
HE IS NOT SPENDING ALL THIS TIME THINKING ABOUT AND FOCUSING ON ME WHY SHOULD HE BE GETTING ALL MY TIME?
It took 15 long months eventually you come out the other end but you have to work on you.
atrophy-
everyone’s comments here are great. i hope my 2 cents help.
i too went through having my EUM be my last thought at night, who i dreamt of, and my first thought in the morning. i never thought it would end.
i went out with other guys, journaled, went to therapy, exercised, meditated, cried, complained, tried to retrain my thoughts, got busy etc. everything everyone else here says they did and more. and it got better, but it didn’t really completely go away. the problem is that the unfinished business lay with me, really, not with him.
last week, yes, just last week, he rewrote his online profile. and like a friggin’ fool, i looked at it. its like i knew something had changed, i felt it in the force, and i looked. and i was right. he made himself sound EA instead of the stunningly emotionally crippled EU he had been when he was with me. he is now actually offering everything, to whomever else wanted it, that he had *dangled* in front of me when he was telling me he was broken, the timing was bad, i was too needy, i could do better, he wished he was the kind of person who would take me places, he was a loser, etc etc etc. NOW, all of a sudden, when i actually LOVED him back then, he’s (supposedly) willing to love…someone else…
it went right through me.
and then it hit me, probably helped by all those months of working on myself: WHY in the WORLD would i continue to waste myself on someone who:
1- is probably still EU and over-advertizing his readiness for a relationship
2- even if he is really, truly EA, and has spontaneously combusted into the person i wanted him to be, he:
a- never, ever, EVER really treated me right, and i have to go on who he was to me, not who i want him to be
b- was self-centered and emotionally ungenerous, which would probably not really change even if he were EA
c- he never apparently really gave that much of a crap about me, because he let me go and…
d- …he’s not banging down my door, telling me he’s sorry, he’s ready, he loves me, etc
3- i want someone who adores, cherishes, and worships me, GENEROUSLY, not someone from whom i have to beg for crumbs that he then calls loaves
and for the first time, yes, just the other day, the light went on – for the first time, it occurred to me that letting go of him could feel like FREEDOM, not like loss. that i love me now, and i don’t need his…
…sorry, comment too long…
…lame-ass validation. i have me now. for real. i don’t need him, . do i want a partner? yes. does it have to be him, the pathetic, self-pitying guy who let me down? shit no!!!
atrophy – stop cyber stalking him. stop thinking that this girl, whoever she is, is better than you. she’s not. VALUE YOU, who you are, how you look, what you feel, what you think, what you want, what you need. focus on you, invest in you, heal your past hurts. then you’ll see that he’s not all that, and that there is SO MUCH, and so much better, out there for you.
i’m sorry you’re hurting. but you don’t have to. love yourself. its the best love there is.
atrophy-
sorry, more.
letting go of my EUM is sad, but no sadder than this whole sordid episode has been. he’s not here. hasn’t been for months. he doesn’t love me. i made mistakes in the relationship, but so what, and he totally fucked it up. he was actually a pretty sucky boyfriend. if it were right, it wouldn’t be over, but it is. its over. and i’m really, truly ok. i know i can be happy, and find someone really right for me.
try to let go. keep letting go. grieve the relationship, but know, KNOW, *KNOW* that there is light at the end of this tunnel. truly. he’s not the be all end all. he’s not.
again – love you. you love you.
Fearless,
Thank you for your comment. Regarding older guy, I am talking to him every single day and he seems fine, we talked about past relationships and our experiences in life and what we are looking for…I am going to meet him tomorrow, he said that he is very nervous to meet me. Strange really, considering his age (50)…IF I would not feel right, I will give up dating for at least couple of months and see how I feel…I am very grateful for this wonderful site, Natalie and ladies, who share their stories:-) Thank you!!!
Good work Atrophy. No-one here can give you the answers to yr many questions although many will empathise & relate. If I was you, I’d take out a notebook & write the answers to those questions. No-one overcomes these issues without ‘doing the work’ in one form or another. Many go to therapy also. You might also find doing that helpful. All the best.
Runnergirl,
I don’t think you are stalking me at all. (BIg smile!). It is beyond helpful to be able to talk about all this crazy stuff.
I have to keep telling myself ‘he has nothing to offer me’ rather than my usual self-talk which is ‘how have I failed to maintain his attention?’.
That is why yesterday, I felt better because I realised that if he is not as attentive it is a good thing and means that I am succeeding in being in the right place relative to him. It is a sign that my strategies are working (even tho’ a bit of me doesn’t want them to!)
Runnergirl, how does NC work with a colleague that you are required to meet with. For a variety of reasons, my job requires me genuinely have to remain in touch with this guy. I have decided to pull out of one social activity (a group of us from work go out together occasionally) and am only, now, sending professional emails for information/meeting details etc
Thirdly, I really don’t think the threat is that we will sleep together. I am not smug I promise you. The threat for me is more that I get ‘hooked’ into trying to keep him interested in me. My self-esteem wants him to really like me. Like you, I count the minutes after I send an email or whatever….
Yesterday, I felt so much better and more full of self-respect when I thought…if this guy is cooling right down, it is because he has stopped seeing me as a casual ‘flirt’/'fun’ colleague. He is seeing me more as a professional colleague.
This is not feminine failure this is success! I have to keep telling myself that he has nothing to offer me. And if he is feeling that he can offer it to me…I am not respecting myself enough!
Despite what I am writing here..I have avoided meetings and stood right back now for a good few months. So, I am hoping that I am on the way to getting my full stability back!!
Thank you!
Felicity,
It sounds like you are doing brilliantly! So many of us get drawn into these situations and blindly carry on getting carried away with the attention and ending up in a great big mess so well done to you!
It can be very tricky when you work with someone but it is just about being very firm with the boundaries – emails about work only – not getting drawn in to chat, don’t sit next to them in meetings, and – like you are doing – avoid social situations for a while and definitely those where alcohol is involved!
“I have to keep telling myself ‘he has nothing to offer me’ rather than my usual self-talk which is ‘how have I failed to maintain his attention?” I think this is an excellent point for pretty much all of us. I know NML has made it a number of ways, too, in other posts but I especially needed it right now. Thanks!
FX, I agree — I think that flipping the self-talk on its ear, and reframing it, is so key. “What’s in it for me?” is an effective way to bottom-line dubious relationships.
There indeed lies the key, ” What’s in it for me?Tea Cozy. I had a list, it included someone who was able to meet me on my own ground, had something to offer me. I’m like a Fly-Fisherman, casting the Fly time and time again. Text-Fishing is probably a more accurate description.
Runnergirl PART 2 of my response:
For me it all boils down to the pain of letting go. I need a way to maintain my self-esteem while his flirtatious interest in me dwindles because I am not feeding it. I felt so special when he paid me attention when we first met a year ago.
I know what the answer is ..it is just hard… I need to have that sense of specialness within me already.
Thank you for your honest insight and support.
Hi Felicity,
I hope Natalie will allow my response but I understand if not because this is not a forum. In Natalie’s articles in the archives, she discusses how to go NC with a work colleague. Check out the archives. I think Natalie worked with the attached guy she was involved with and went NC. Keep your necessary work conduct 100% about work. It’s good you recognize that an attached guy can only offer casual (and a lot of hell) and are willing to opt out. Every day you work toward letting it go, the sooner you will be free to explore a healthy, co-piloted relationship. I felt special when he paid attention to me too. But, and it is a very big but, it really isn’t special when an attached guy is paying attention. Probably the best line for a potential OW is Natalie’s line: “…trying to use casual relationships as a back door route to a ‘proper’ relationship will backfire spectacularly”. Keep your head grounded in reality. Don’t fantasize or dream. OW’s rarely get upgraded. That’s the reality. Sounds like you are working on being upfront with yourself. That’s where it starts. Gracious, I wish I had Nat and BR before I spent two years lying to myself. Now, if an attached male hits on me, I just want to haul off and deck him. I won’t, of course but that’s what is in the bubble above my head. It isn’t special. Yup, you know the answer. It’s not the answer you want to hear but it’s what it is. Stay strong. Stay professional. And heal. Hugs!
I agree with this post. When you are not upfront about it being a casual encounter or encounters, yes it will blow up in your face. Somebody will get hurt. One Mr. Unavailable actually told me that he tells his flings up from that they are flings and that he has about three women on rotation and he still gets play and women who end up hurt because he doesn’t flip the script and magically end up falling in love with them. I also know one woman who does this too.
It’s one thing to not be up front with the other party because that is being deceitful and a coward…but what about the people who get hurt anyway because they let themselves fall into the trap they should have stayed out of in the first place when they knew the deal from the beginning?
Polly, Thank you!
I have been quite careful over the last year. But obviously not careful enough with my own feelings and thoughts and that is what I am dealing with now. I can’t imagine the pain encountered by people who get fully involved with UMs ..it is bad enough handling the day to day emotions. I am, I think, much further on than I was 6 months ago. I don’t fantasize and am brutal with myself if I start to think stupid things. Most importantly, I am learning to value my own stability more than the frisson of hinted at flirtation! Who knows perhaps I will be ready for the real deal this year! Felicity
Runnergirl,
I’ll check out those references to NC in a work context..thank you!
I find it so helpful to be reminded that attention from an UM means zilch.
The lie that it is special and to be held on to etc and that my attractiveness is to be measured by it … has hooked me until recently. I’ve been walking this emotional tightrope..wanting to be free but not to lose my sense of feminine affirmation. To be fair to the UM…my mind has probably made far more of this than even was there in the beginning. I sense that for him the flirty interest came and went rapidly..I made it into something more in my head. I honestly don’t think he’s even in that head space any more. He had a brief shot of attention adrenalin and that was enough. I wasn’t trying to escalate things or to build on them to lead to a full blown affair. I am looking forward to the co-pilot approach. I have never had that. I’m sure many can identify. I am working on being my own source of affirmation and self-respect. Yesterday I felt a bit low and then reminded myself that how I feel about myself has nothing to do with the crumbs of attention I receive from a guy who is not serious about me! Slow but sure….. !
@Felicity
Hi Felicity,
I want to thank you for sharing your story because I truly benefited from ‘listening to’ how you applied what you have learned to a real life situation.
So, thank you for helping me increase my understanding, and….
And, good on you for treating yourself with love, trust, care, and respect
)
Cheers!
“Nope-ity nope, nope”…I do not believe in casual sex or casual relationships or casual arrangements or “f*king” around, or “messing around… about”…on the floor…on weekends…every other Tuesday…when he passes through town….
If it works for other people, good for them–”hop on one leg and do the bad thing….”
One day, I will meet a man who shares similar beliefs and values as I do, and that knows what he wants…is emotionally available AND mentally healthy…spiritually aware and in tune to his beliefs,…doesn’t need to use me as a coping mechanism, anxiety reducer, power booster, ego-strok-er, fantasy –er, or any other time-passing, reality escaping-self-medicating, psychological bull$hit –need–to–cope–with–his …or…%$%$ need.
….just one man…who has good self-esteem, self-love, etc. to share my life with who I will not be getting “high off of” because I no longer need a man to make me feel safe, protected, cherished, loved, validated, or any other reality escaping-self-medicating, psychological bull$hit –need–to–cope–with–my …or…%$%$ need.
But in the mean time, I’m living and loving ME and my life…there is so much more to life than a man, soooooo off the fence nowwww…………thank you Natalie and all of you who comment here–BR Community.
)
Grounded Fairy..how sweet of you to post.
Truth be told today the UM was careless of my feelings in a small way that let me in to the way he parcels out his energy and focus. It was a painful lesson that reinforced the fact that he no longer asks me questions about myself or looks fascinated by anything I say…that was the big pull initially…. the gloss has worn off and there ain’t much substance there now. Good to know. Hard to admit.
But the journey has to be taken. I hope this is the last time ever…!
I’m sorry if this is off topic, but could someone please help. I’m continuing no contact (just two weeks) and although I’ve been experiencing a roller coaster of emotions I’m feeling stronger. I’ve even found myself getting angry at times which is energising because before I was just a quivering helpless wreck. I don’t want to break NC, it’s empowering and I cannot go back. I just cannot go through it all again. My problem is I need a reference from him. I did try to tie up all the loose ends before going NC and I did get a reference from him. However, the position I’m applying for requires a reference directly from him to them so I cannot use the one I’ve got. I don’t want him to think it’s an excuse for me to contact him and I don’t want him to think I’m still there. I want to continue getting stronger and I don’t want to feel out of control again. How do I approach this so that I don’t feel as if I’m returning for more pain? I don’t want to go back I want to keep going forward.
Well if there is absolutely no other way than to get the reference then I would suggest perhaps sending him the request in the post and asking him to send it on direct to the person who it is for? Would that work? That way you don’t have to get into an email exchange. No point worrying about usual etiquette in these situations. Don’t feel you have to ask him nicely. Or if you just have to give his details to an employer / institution do that but don’t contact him yourself. He should then get the message that this is purely a professional thing He will either give the reference or not but asking nicely won’t help. Gives him too much power. If it is an academic reference is there anyone else you could ask? Sorry it is hard to know your situation but there are usually lots of options…remember it is about doing the thing that is best for you and weighing up the likely benefits vs consequences of contacting him again.
I’ve been in a very similar situation myself recently. In the end I didn’t need the reference but I was going to go for the send in the post option. I couldn’t stomach asking him for anything! And so horrible having to rely on them to tell someone else whether you are good enough!!
Thank’s Polly. The new university I’m applying to requires a reference directly from him. I need the reference to help me start up my life again. I’m hoping to get into a mid-year postgrad course. The affair and the loss of my baby has been so painful I haven’t been able to do anything since last November. He was my supervisor (a professor – how clichéd is that!) overlooking my thesis. We also worked on other research together. Because of the affair I can’t stay at my current uni and while he hasn’t come out with it directly he has dropped some very big hints that it would not be a good idea for me to continue my studies here. I know it would be best for me to move on but, I’m angry that he gets to stay and carry on with his life as if nothing has happened. On the other hand I brought it all on myself. Your idea about posting the request is brilliant, although I’m sure he will think it a bit strange that I didn’t email. Looking back I’m sad to say he managed me quite well via email and the thought of starting up an email exchange again fills me with dread. I’m sure it would undo all the work I’ve done so far. Thank you again Polly. I’ve said this before, but I’m so happy that I found this site. Reading the posts has kept me going for the past few weeks.
Lilly, It is a cliche because it happens so often. Profs are in a perfect position to find women because of their status and access to students and junior research staff. It frankly makes me sick the way so many of them abuse their positions and keep getting away with it. I may be wrong but I suspect that affairs with students are frowned upon if not a disciplinary offence but they are able to keep the women quiet because you feel special and chosen and need their validation even more because they are supervising your work. It is the perfect set up for them.
I also think it is a profession that attracts men who are emotionally stunted with great big fragile egos where they get to be measured on their intellectual ability on not as well rounded decent people.
I can’t quite remember the details of your story and whether the man is attached or whether it its because you are a student that he kept it secret but either way my guess is that he will play ball and give you the reference. It is not up to him whether you go quietly you must do what feels best for you. Only you is in control of what you do. But if you do leave then I would guess he will send off the reference and not cause any trouble. It doesn’t matter whether he finds it strange that you haven’t emailed. If it keeps him from coming anywhere near you and sends him that clear message then that’s what matters.
To those in a casual relationship , I would say that you have to go with your gut feeling. I am currently in a Friends With Benefits relationship, and I just decided that I’m just too awesome to be wasting my time with a pseudo-relationship, even if the chap I’m FWB with is someone I consider one of my closest friends. Ladies, ask yourself: Does he take you out on dates? Does he introduce you to his friends as his girl? Will he commit to you? If the answer is no to any of these questions, then I would start looking elsewhere for a suitable dating partner that will provide you with everything you’re seeking. It’s all fine and dandy if you’re happy with the current status of your FWB relationship. BUT you must know and realize that someone will get hurt. Either you or he will eventually find someone with whom you actually want to pursue a relationship, and I guarantee that the other party will not like this outcome. Sure, your FWB pal is irresistible right now. Sure, everything you two do together seems like you’re dating. But you surely you know if you’re in a relationship or not? I speak from my personal experience. My FWB showers me with attention and the sexual chemistry is definitely there, but I know in my heart of hearts that he does not want to date me. I’m a college-educated, successful career woman in my late-20?s. I’ve been told by many that I’m very beautiful, fit, funny, smart and nice — quite a catch, really — one that would make a great wife and mother. So why doesn’t my FWB want to date me? Exactly. WHY doesn’t he? After a lot of thinking, I’ve determined it’s truly not due to anything I’m doing or have done in the past. This is an issue that my FWB buddy has to work out on his own. His choice — he can man up and date me OR he can not and go about his business. Today, I’ve decided not to permit our FWB relationship to go any further. Honestly, I would love to have a relationship with him, but I value his friendship more — I choose the “friend” rather than the “benefits”. He will just have to deal with it. I plan on doing the “fade out” in the relationship and limiting contact in all avenues of communication (in-person, email, text, calls, etc.) Any sort of communication will be as friends and platonic. It will be hard to resist temptation, but I must do this for me. He may begin to pursue a relationship; he may not — either way, I will get my…
LL, I just wonder what made you change your mind about FWB situation? DO you start feel vulnerable towards your friend with benefits? You said that you want to be platonic and value relationship more than physical connection…I think you want to punish him? Sorry if I am wrong…
I knew from the beginning that I was in “booty call relationship”, even he stated that we are in relationship, we never introduced each other to our families and friends., I thought I would carry on f**** him till I meet someone decent. BUT what I realised lately, that being with him stopping me to meet other guys who can give me REAL love, care and attention.. I started NC, even we did not have argument, I do not want to punish him or something, I just want to get out and save myself from insanity.
Yes, it seems that I too have found myself in a FWB relationship..1st sexual encounter with him about 2 months ago after a 12 year platonic friendship. I have moved out of the city to semi rural location, now have no kids left at home and had a painful breakup last year. My FWB started visiting about 6 months ago and now wants to come to visit whenever I have days off from work! It is really starting to annoy me that when he visits for a few days (although he does bring me some fruit and vegies as an offering) we drive around in my car to bushwalks, beach etc, dine out at the club at my suggestion (we go dutch). I cook and he sits on the coach..this has been rinse repeat for the last 6 months as no initiation on his part for dating me or anything else for that matter except sweep up my leaves on occasion.
Yes the benefits part does create some expectation for romance but nothing is forthcoming so from this day forward I am saying NO to any further sexual liason with him and scaling back to friendship before the whole thing is completely ruined by my increasing resentment!
I do believe in what you say. There’s absolutely no substitute for being upfront. Doing so saves a lot of unnecessary emotions and baggages. I also think that doing so is a sign of respect.
I recently ended a relationship with a man who lied to me about being married, and having a child out of wedlock. He dropped a bomb on me, and it took, and is still is taking, me a lot of effort to deal with. The pain is immense, and the scar, I believe will be big and deep.
I walked away because I knew that is the only way for me to move on, and for me to gain a sense of confidence and trust in myself. It is painful, and there are time when I question myself if I made the right decision. However, I always look back to the fact that he did not give me the opportunity to make an informed decision. I thought I did …. especially, when I made it clear to him that I could not handle having a third party, and the fact that I asked him outright if he was married or if there someone else. He denied any and had the guts later on to assert that he was separated, and that he does not feel sorry for our relationship.
FACT is he lied, and he should be sorry about. And that includes being in a relationship that was based on a lie. IF I knew the facts early on, I could have made a different decision, and set the right boundaries. Unfortunately, he denied me of that opportunity, and in the process crushed my spirit … as well as created a mess of his married life. There is no substitute for being upfront, and I believe it’s the best way to go for people with significant histories to tell. IMHO, I feel that I am respected and treated more fairly if a man were 100% honest with me —- does not manner if it were 4 wives, 20 kids, and 3 other flings. I would have more respect for the man than I have for my ex.