Comments on: The (Polar) Opposites Game in Dating & Relationships Part Two

By: Danielle

Danielle — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:34:45 +0000

I know that this isn’t a forum for me to get help alone, but I just wanted to thank shoelvr and prickly for their comments. They help a lot and I am going to go back to “the single life” tab immediately. I was also trying to get to both of your blogs and can’t find a link. I would love to see more of both of your journeys.
Danielle´s last blog ..The damn thing lied to me

By: trinity

trinity — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 02:21:00 +0000

@ Aphrogirl
I think that like Prickly says, relationships are dynamic, evolving and changing, and the best partnership is one where two people are willing and able to try to gracefully note and work with the changes. A certain level of self confidence and maturity is needed for both to do this, and there is no way around the fact that two mature self confident people also have to continue to hold this work of relationship as a priority

This is what i believe and all id expect from a partner, that and both feet in the realtionship. I think we all no that people are not perfect and nor should we expect them to be, there will always be issues in relationships. After all your 2 different people with different views, emotions and understanding of things. I said it a millions times to my X. Its the way you handle those issues and move forwards that count. I had someone in my life that was very critical and if there was an issue it was the end of the world or it meant we shouldnt be together. It was exhausting trying to deal with an issue and him at the same time. This was someone who made every small thing into a huge confusing drama, then wondered why he felt unhappy then utlimety blamed me and left. What i realise is he was unhappy before i met him, in the realtiosnhip and even now. Nothing to do with me. However i do see my part, take responsibilty and have started making changes and learning from them, rather then just push all the blame on him, like he did to me.

check out this quote i found the other day, i have it next to my bed:

Artistâ€™s Wayâ€:

â€œPerfectionism is a refusal to let yourself move ahead. It is a loop–an obsessive, debilitating closed system that causes you to get stuck in the details of what you are writing or painting or making and to lose sight of the whole. Instead of creating freely and allowing errors to reveal themselves later as insights, we often get mired in getting the details right. We correct our originality into a uniformity that lacks passion and spontaneity.â€

By: Prickly

Prickly — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:32:26 +0000

Danielle, I think your question is the reason I feel sad reading some posts. Loving yourself starts with forgiving yourself, which starts when you get back in touch with your inner child (we all have one). Your inner child certainly holds the key to your essential soul and holds pain as well as innocence. As a biological child we trust so many others to show us who we are when, really, we know who we are. But, the world wants us to be who it wants us to be. Give it up, embrace your innocence, show guilt the door and begin to trust that, when you are true to yourself you will know that you are loveable. I, too, read A Course In Miracles and although it seems weird at first it does help us understand the illusions we live with and the tricks the world pulls on us. Yes, ‘loving yourself’ sounds like a bit of trendy psycho babble and can seem out of our reach but, I promise you, it’s not. Mind you, this site is amazing for putting stuff in perspective and expressing things in an easy to use format so, I’d say – keep reading it! Hold on, it’ll come. x

By: shoelvr

shoelvr — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:22:00 +0000

Danielle – I agree that it is hard to know where to start. If you go back into the archives here under the “The Single Life” tab, you will find a lot of posts that speak to how to make yourself happy and find the “real” you. Sometimes I have to read them more than once for it to really sink in, and when I am going through a low self-esteem moment or day, I just pull up one of these posts and it helps me work through it.

I think the biggest thing is to have some quiet time with yourself figuring out who you are and who you want to be. I am really struggling with this after adopting the likes and dislikes of the many EUMs that I have dated over the past decade. I am starting to figure it out and it is the first piece in finding myself again.

The other big thing is to “get a life” – which means load up your schedule w/ friends, hobbies, organizations, etc. Along the way, you will figure out which things you value and what you want out of life. I am working on this journey and taking a year off from dating to figure out “me”. I have no business even trying to be in a relationship right now until I figure this out.

Hope this helps somewhat! Just know there are a lot of us in the middle of this struggle and we can come out on the other side! And NML has some great insight to help you!!! Hang in there and have faith and hope that you will get yourself back…

By: Danielle

Danielle — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:56:03 +0000

So how did you start to value yourself? This is what I am having trouble with. I do exactly what you say here, and have for so long that now I don’t even know who the real me is to get started or to value myself. I don’t even know me.
Danielle´s last blog ..The damn thing lied to me

By: Gina

Gina — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:30:39 +0000

What great insights. It’s so true that we either subsciously, or unconsciously get ourselves into situations that fit our issues. (What you said) We refuse for a while to take responsibility but it’s until we had enough, our lesson with these relationships is that we need to take responsibilty in order to discover who we are. Before we discover that, we really don’t know what that really is. I read somewhere, actually in this book “a course in miracles” that we are responsible for everything we are in, everything that seems to happen to us we had asked for and I truly beleive that. I did the same thing in the past with choosing different people; thinking that was the problem… yes, trust me some of the people I met or dated were very outrageous… like candid camera outrageous but it goes to show how we truly feel about ourselves. Either it was me putting up with illusions when dealing with men who I knew were dishonest, or being with people who had no respect for me… because the truth was, I didn’t know what it meant to have self-respect from childhood. Now childhood isn’t to pity party, it’s just the journey we need to go through to understand ourselves and reach our highest potential.

By: aphrogirl

aphrogirl — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:28:32 +0000

I have almost always been in a relationship, but most were relatively healthy and one was so long term it kept me off the streets ( sarcasm here : –) for three decades. I never go seeking out a type, rather I seek to get to know people and see where it goes.

I think that like Prickly says, relationships are dynamic, evolving and changing, and the best partnership is one where two people are willing and able to try to gracefully note and work with the changes. A certain level of self confidence and maturity is needed for both to do this, and there is no way around the fact that two mature self confident people also have to continue to hold this work of relationship as a priority.

I knew it was over with my ex, the father of my child, who I lived with for decades, when at counseling I finally said.. ” It does not seem that you really want to work on this relationship anymore” And he replied, “Yes that is true.” Really that was the end of discussion there.

So my point is, assuming you are not dealing with an EUM/ arseclown / manchild…the two most important qualities I think needed for a successful relationship are a strong foundation and a strong work ethic. Not saying it will then be roses all the time, but instead that you will be able to successfully weather the storms that come up because your ship is solid. Personality traits are less important..I see them more as accessories, they add to, or detract from the whole, but they are not the basis of the foundation.

Another thing is that weathering storms is what makes most relationships stronger, storms are not necessarily bad things though at the time they can be hell.

I do not think the EUM has a strong foundation, so I do not see much hope for a strong relationship with them. If you are dealing with an EUP they can have an amazing inability to be blind to the work to be done as a couple. Additionally, you will be blamed for all the trouble and there will probably be a lot of dopey frustrating drama flying around.

Maybe you are or have become emotionally unavail yourself some, either as a reaction to the flakiness of the EUM or maybe because you have never learned to feel loved for who you are and learned to treat yourself lovingly.

No big deal, but you do need to ditch the drama and usually this means leaving the EUM, going NC, and getting to the work of knowing you are loved and lovable. Learning to know you are loved and lovable can be done with another who is secure within themselves, or it can be done alone. I don’t think you can do this work with an EUM in your life;the drama of their insecurities demands way too much attention if you are attempting relationship with them.

I work to know I am loved despite this and that relationship not working out and I work to hold and keep that love in the forefront of my attitudes. I also work to take it out there as I go about my day.

By: Prickly

Prickly — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:26:09 +0000

Just to add to my message, I got lots of insight from a YouTube post called How To Mend A Broken Heart by daveawake. In it he talks about loving yourself first and how to deal with the hurt caused by trusting someone who lets you down. Just a thought…

By: Prickly

Prickly — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:56:33 +0000

There are some tricky issues coming up in this latest topic and I guess it goes to show how complex and delicate the whole relationship thing can be. As I see it, there are some basic assumptions to be made in all of it, though, and I fear we can become bogged down by details when really we need to keep one or two big points in mind. First, the Needy bit. There is nothing wrong or shameful in wanting a good relationship, wanting to love and be loved in return. In fact, it is a human NEED. However, that Need often drives us to fear being alone (although my experience would say there is nothing more lonely than a bad/abusive relationship) and that in turn makes us put up with and excuse disrespectful treatment. Second, Baggage is, to a certain extent, inevitable, particularly in those of us who are no longer in the first flush of youth. Actually, if you met someone who did NOT have baggage it might be wise to avoid them! To totally eradicate and resolve past hurts and misplaced trust is a very tall order, and most of us have neither the time nor ability to do this. Besides, when a person comes into your life the interaction between you can often trigger something you didn’t even know was baggage. I would say that is more likely to happen in a good relationship, because frequently we bury our very strongest fears and insecurities so that the crappy blokes don’t even get close. That’s part of the commitment phobia we ‘victims’ often display. As for self-esteem; well, it’s bound to take knocks as we go through life, whether from partners, parents, work, friends, it all amounts to the same thing, which I see as loss of faith in self. It’s not so much a sense of being a ‘bad’ or ‘good’ person, more that we lose sight of the fact we are just human and s**t happens, and we forget to trust our selves. The answer is also the problem – relationships exist on a continuum, are dynamic and interactive, so what works (or not) in one might not in another. For instance, I walked on eggshells with my ex, was terrified of saying anything that would upset him or prod his mummy hatred/fear of intimacy/body dysmorphia/anger. I told myself that was because I cared about him, could understand why he had these issues and wanted to help him. Yeah, right. There is nothing wrong at all with caring for another person, to want to help them and be supportive and understanding but, I forgot to do those things to ME as well. As with Dazedandconfused, it made no difference, as even when I did his bidding I was still the ‘wrong’ one. Now happily married, my husband and I find that we cannot manage if we know the other is holding back, even if it means saying something quite provocative or challenging. This has meant we often find hidden pain or lack of understanding we didn’t realise was there. But, we talk it out, sometimes noisily, sometimes gently, always with a view to learning and not defending. To do this, we need faith in each other but, most of all, faith in our self. Co-dependency is, like Baggage and Needy, relative and not necessarily bad, but exists in degrees and relies on 49% of the couple to respect and acknowledge the influence on their partner and, consequently, the relationship. The last point I want to make is that reading posts often makes me feel sad, not just for myself and the memories they trigger but for the people writing them. Top of the list, those of you who have realised you have a common demoninator or have made bad choices or displayed less than attractive characteristics or generally let yourself down (in your estimation) – forgive yourself. That’s how you move on.

By: Susannah

Susannah — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:56:47 +0000

This is my first comment on the site. I have been amazed by the insights of NML and the courageous contributions of others. I am 44 years old and for the first time in my life in a relatively healthy relationship with a man for some years, although I would be lying if I said there weren’t still issues that were lowering my self esteem. Mainly his reluctance to discuss our non existent sex life. Even though we are very physically affectionate with each other. I have been physically ill for a number of years, had to give up my career due to my health and am still, in many senses, emotional unavailable myself. I have witnessed my own mother suffer humiliation and abuse at the hands of both my father and her second husband, and it is only now they have separated, that an authentic person is starting to emerge- I see my mother becoming so much more forgiving of herself and others and much more willing to take responsibility for staying in relationships that gave her absolutely nothing. She has denied, minimised and blamed others for so many years, and she is now 64 and is learning to live for the first time in her life free from any kind of control and manipulation from a partner. I so much don’t want that to be me in 20 years time. Yet I am having to admit to myself that, if truth be told, I have rarely had a relationship with a man that has been mutually supportive and where I feel I can be myself. I tended to stick around when there were clear red flags or confusion about his feelings.

Thanks to therapy, reading, and sites, such as this, I finally feel consciously aware of my own emotional issues, enough to get a true picture of what went wrong in these relationships. Rather than pick opposites, I seemed to go for a certain ‘type’ – those who chased and then backed away when I became truly ‘interested’ (notably when I realised they could make me feel emotional pain ) Prior to my current partner, my longest term relationship was for five years and included one disastrous 2 year marriage at the age of 19. Certainly the similarities are more striking that the differences.

I offer my admiration and respect to all of you who post here, or read the comments, on your own individual journey of healing and self discovery.

By: lilliflower

lilliflower — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 03:00:40 +0000

Absolutely spot on! Did not realise this is what I was doing. I was wondering why so many of my relationships had not worked because each partner was so different to the last. Little did I know, they were all the same man, just in a different package.

I thought I had dealt with the demons of my past. When going into any new relationship I believed I had given myself time to heal from the previous one before diving into a new one. I have spent time looking at my behaviour and my defects of character and believed that I was truly a good person who made bad choices. So now, at 43, I am disappointed to discover that I still have much work to do on my self esteem. Don’t know how to get started.

After reading ‘Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl’ plus many posts on this website I can’t believe that it has taken me till now to see that I am the common denominator in all my relationships. Yes, the men were assclowns, but I accepted them! I don’t think I’ve ever really successfully stood my ground with a boundary in any relationship ever (except when I eventually leave). I always find an excuse for HIS behaviour eg. he was abandoned as a child, he was abused, his wife left him blah, blah, blah. ALWAYS put their ‘supposed’ needs before mine. This screams to me, severe lack of self esteem.

Now, I am single and ignoring attempted contact from two EUM’s (one from over a year ago and the other from over a month ago). I want to be loved and I want to love someone, but I have a journey of self discovery to go on first, and I so hope I can find the worth in myself so that I never attract another EUM/AC ever again!!

By: DazedandConfused

DazedandConfused — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 02:54:16 +0000

I have not been on the site in a while… And perhaps I am just reading your posts through new eyes or you are starting to delve in to new areas that just speak to me more.
I played the opposites game and internalized all my ex told me so that when we got back together, I promised to change everything about myself.
I stopped arguing, I was loving, always said supporting things, I never disagreed… I stopped speaking if I did.
I took all he said and felt the failure of the relationship was my fault, until I changed to what he wanted to be and he still tried to fight, put me down, etc.
It was almost like an experiment. It didn’t matter what I was… HE was still who he was.

Great post — I am continuing learning and take great comfort in seeing how similar your experiences, thoughts and feelings are.

By: Ruby

Ruby — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:39:07 +0000

Great article – I enjoy them all. However, I’ve just worked out that I’m an emotionally unavailable female with commitment issues. I’m early 30s and, somewhat paradoxically, would love nothing more than a family of my own – how do I even begin to get there? After a four year abusive relationship (my first and only relationship) I spent a decade avoiding men except for occasional one night stands (no, I never called them again.) I was always drunk during them. Last year I tried dating and had sex sober for the first time in a decade – it was horrible and the guy was very controlling/belittling. He reminded me of my only ex and I fell apart. No more one night stands. I want to move forward now. But how?

By: Aurora

Aurora — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:25:25 +0000

Being emotionally scared/unavailable myself and not having healthy boundaries is harder to overcome than I thought. The issue/pattern of low self-esteem keeps coming up, even as I gradually get a little wiser and stronger.
Every man I have picked simply hasn’t been there for me the way I claimed that I wanted. And the men who WERE there for me, I wasn’t physically attracted to. What a perfect formula to protect myself from ever getting in a relationship!
My parents’ marriage was so horrible and cruel, somehwere along the way I probably vowed I never wanted one – and voila, I’ve been quite good at keeping that promise.
I’ve been learning how to be successfully alone without being lonely except on the occasional holiday.
And I still need to work on my self-esteem, self-confidence and self-respect, regardless.
Aurora´s last blog ..Apple’s i Pad