In the last post, I shared the story of how my friend had been dating a guy and had wanted to take it slow but had changed her mind about sleeping with him because while they were on date #4, he invited her out for #5 the following night. As she got ready to leave the following morning, she referenced the invitation he made, only to be met with a blank face and claims of forgetfulness… Well since then, he’s called her and claimed that – wait for it – he felt very ‘pressured’ when she brought it up.
How on earth can someone claim that they’ve been made to feel “pressured” about an invitation that they extended and especially after they had sex with that said person? He wasn’t claiming pressure when he was touting for sex or lying on top of her… But he did feel pressured, albeit due to the associations he made with her wanting to meet up again even though she was only referencing his invitation.
I can appreciate why someone might feel ‘pressured’ in this situation if a relationship is being assumed but at the same time, if, like this guy, a person then claims after sex that they have commitment issues (that they’ve ‘suddenly’ remembered), that they don’t know what’s wrong with them, that you’re a great person who deserves better and yadda yadda yadda, the reason why they feel pressured isn’t down to you but down to their act now, think later attitude.
This whole pressure debacle got me thinking because I’ve heard so many stories about people claiming that it’s all “too much” and “too fast” even though they were The Chaser, people who were told it was too much pressure after they apparently replied “too quickly” to an email/text/call, or who were accused of exerting too much pressure by asking the person they met online a few weeks/months before and who they’ve even sexted with to meet up and I even know somebody who felt ‘pressured’ because his girlfriend of ten years wanted to know if and when they were going to move in.
Being pressurised, as in somebody trying to persuade, coerce, influence and even intimidate you into doing what they want is certainly a code amber alert to stop, look and listen so that you can check in with you and understand where your needs, expectations and wishes differ to the agenda that’s being asserted.
- If they’re exerting pressure, they want something from you – what is it? Why do you feel pressured? Be honest and don’t judge your feelings and thoughts. It’s judging you in some way that can have you ‘complying’ when it’s either not in your best interests… or you’re only going to passive aggressively backtrack on what you originally agreed to. The latter is familiar territory for you if you’re afraid of commitment – you tell people what they want to hear and then undermine it.
- If you don’t feel that this can be discussed in a mutually respectful way, why not? Your answer is either going to reveal how you feel or what you think of the other person’s potential reaction. Make sure you differentiate between internal fear versus external concerns exacerbating your fears.
- If you cave to this pressure, what will that mean for you? Will you feel happy in doing whatever it is they want? If you do go ahead, make sure that you are clear on your intentions and motives because many a person has caved due to trying to play the ‘long game’ only to end up being caught short. If it’s a situation where there’s a potential for compromise (not something with your dignity or values), look at where you can find some common ground.
- Be clear. Sometimes in the effort to be ‘polite’, we’re indirect and wishy-washy with our statements and the other party is likely to see this as a point of negotiation. Hinting misses the point. I think sometimes we’re also wishy-washy out of fear that being authentic and honest will rule us out of the running. If you’ve made your position clear and they’re still trying to dissuade you even though your discomfort is patently clear, you have a conflict of interest. It’s also potentially a sign that they don’t respect basic boundaries.
- Be upfront. Take the guy from the story. He knows he has commitment issues and that he just wants to get laid. Why front like he wants a relationship and that he’s dating? He could avoid feeling pressured if he stopped bullshitting.
Feeling pressure as in that sense of stressful urgency caused by the seeming necessity of doing something, possibly within a limited time, is, depending on the context, likely to be at best an amber, if not a code red alert.
It’s why people compromise themselves because they fear that if they don’t do as is being asked or certainly implied, that they’ll miss out and that what’s on ‘offer’ is a going, going, gone deal.
That sense of urgency for a person to, for example, sleep with you or to Fast Forward the relationship or situation to get you to make declarations and agreements that outpace the true nature of the relationship and how long you’ve known one another is that neon sign in the darkness that something’s very wrong because a person doesn’t have to stick a jump lead in things if they’re actually intending to be around longer than a hot minute and they genuinely want to and intend to get to know you.
- It’s critical to have an honest conversation with yourself. Where is the pressure coming from? Who created the sense of urgency? Is it this person or is it your fears and beliefs that have convinced the People Pleaser in you that if you don’t comply then you’ll lose out? Is it both of you? If it’s both of you, it may be a sign that you need to calm it down and slow your roll. Talking about it now could be the opportunity for laying the foundations for healthy communication. For all you know, they might be feeling pressured too.
- Is there a genuine need for a sense of urgency in the context of the bigger picture? Is the fact that there’s a time limit technically a red flag?
If you feel uncomfortable, don’t ignore it. It may well be a sign of boundary issues that you need to have an active response to, even if it’s as simple as saying NO. If you’re on your own side and know your own values, it’s a lot easier to avoid being pressured into something that takes you away from being who you are or your path.
But, just like when people pull the whole accusing you of being needy when you’re not, don’t allow anybody to censor your needs, wishes, and expectations by claiming that you’re ‘pressuring’ them for wanting to be treated with love, care, trust and respect or for doing something ‘terrible’ like following up on what they’ve stated or implied!
Your thoughts?
Are you ready to stop silencing and hiding yourself in an attempt to ‘please’ or protect yourself from others? My book, The Joy of Saying No: A Simple Plan to Stop People Pleasing, Reclaim Boundaries, and Say Yes to the Life You Want (Harper Horizon), is out now.
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It’s pretty classic: men behave one way, a woman calls them out on it, they point the finger and throw blame. Whether it’s calling someone out on their sexual harassment, it’s no different. This guy was caught by his own words. It’s as almost to say he’s accusing the woman of not understanding his subtext, as if they both really knew he just wanted the physical. I’m in a similar situation now, except I’m berating and accusing myself of being needy, desperate, and hot headed in expressing my feelings and communicating in email why I’m ending a confusing/upsetting “fling” with an assclown guy who does the same thing: says one thing, gets the physical reward that’s hard for me to give, then disappears without any communication.
Hannah that’s classic blowing hot and cold. He’s EUM, wasting your time. Flush.
Funny Hannah, I don’t date men so I will take your word for it but in my life dating women they behave the way you describe as well.
I guess it’s not a “man-woman” thing after all.
Some people have too great a self-centric view, only what they feel and want is valid and matters. They will project bewilderment and anger when confronted with the the complaint of their lack of follow-through or character. It conveniently deflects the cognitive dissonance that would inevitably arise if reality should crack through their protective shell, so void of true empathy and compassion as their world is (unless it compassion and pity for themselves, then they have it a-plenty). Every thing is merely an object in a game they play, some things have more “sentimental” value then others and get played with more often but an object they remain. Objects don’t make demands on their users so it is confusing and infuriating that “pressure” to live up to their words or carry out actions that show true character is being shoved at them. Wouldn’t you be pissed if your i-Pod started asking why you didn’t take it jogging in the park every Saturday like you said you would? People, like objects, are merely viewed in terms of their utility.
So despite the ridiculous mess that was our non relationship, my ex and I are being civil; she has two little girls I’m enamored with who seem to feel the same. I finally got to see them (and by default her (they’re 3&7yo)) and thoroughly enjoyed my time with them. However, she spent the whole time trying to convince me to sleep with her again. Mind you she’s seeing someone who she (of course) says means nothing… and doesn’t want a relationship w me.
Now I’m faced with keeping a promise to the girls (that I’ll see them again soon) but knowing that ill probably have to deal with pressure from their mom. My word means a lot to me… as do these little girls.
Their mom broke my heart… still love her but not willing to settle. I’m very firm on the latter part. I’ve told her no n I’m hoping this fascination w me will fade…. I don’t want to lose my time with them.
sounds like an group of excuses to keep engaging with the mom. just be honest with yourself
2 fearce I know this is difficult but you are probably going to have to break ties with your exes children. I know it is hard as I have had to do it myself many years ago. It was for thr best though. I had spent 8 years treating my ex husbands daughters as my own, but after we split I didn’t want any contact with him whatsoever. And so that meant no more contact with them.
It has already caused you conflict as stated in your post. Are you sure you aren’t just hanging around waiting for her to see how great you are?
2Fearce. I agree with Tabitha. After I went NC with the MM, I realized that I had to do the same with his close friend who worked for him as a contractor. The friend and I were fairly good platonic friends, but I had to tell him that since I was no longer intending to see the MM I would have to stop engaging with hi also. I did not want to hear anything about the MM’s life (which would have been inevitable), nor did I want him to hear anything about my activities. Now, your situation is different, but you state that she is trying to make the moves on you. Unless you are willing to go back on your decision to end it, you will have to end your relationship with her kids also. She will continue to use your seeing them as a means of toying with you. I use the word “toying” because she supposedly is seeing someone else. She doesn’t sound like a person who deserves your attention. As far as her kids are concerned, they will be fine and bounce back after a couple of weeks. Kids are far more resilient than we are. Cut all ties. Good luck.
Maybe this is a dumb questuon but given my background and experience, it is valid. If the guy says he will call at X time, and honors that at first, but then starts calling later than agreed times and makes it sound like it isn’t a big deal, am I wrong for getting upset? I mean YOU said you would call and then you are late and I am supposed to just not care? It bothers me though. Do not say you will do something and not do it. It makes me feel crazy like I am being too sensitive. It makes me pull away and wonder if the person has commitment issues or if it is code amber.
Hey colororange.
I’d mind, it’s just rude, innit? Maybe you have really interesting and brilliant things that you have to put off doing while you’re waiting. Maybe you should go and be doing those things next time he ring late…
If I were you, it would bother me too. May be not picking up if the person calls more then 15 mins later than promised would teach him/her a lesson. On the other hand, being too rigid is not a very nice thing either- things happen in life and being constantly “on the clock” can annoy the heck out of anybody.
I have a policy of not picking up calls or responding to texts after a certain time of night, in particular if they are from some guy who’s trying his luck in some capacity. ACs can be really sly in trying to set up booty-call conditions.
Hi Color O,
I had a guy do exactly that recently. After a week or so being prompt, he starting calling later and later, almost one and half to two hours after he said he was going to, to make plans. I eventually just stopped answering and just faded out. I lost interest and didn’t feel like having the ‘do as you say you’re going to, have some respect for my time’ talk with him. I’m not his mother and if that is how he sees my time…..at his whim, then I’m over it. But then again, my hand is quick to flush these days. I’ve had it with jerks and ass clowns, immature men and crumb throwers. I also have no patience for last minute invites, unless it’s a friend of mine and I know them well and its not a pattern. If a guy asks me last minute for a date….I say I can’t, I’m busy. Yeah, I’m busy at home watching Netflix and enjoying my own company. Its our time they are wasting COlor O. If it’s no big deal to them and they’ve voiced that after you said it bothers you, I would say flush. Why do they get to decide what you should be okay with?
Selkie-this is SOOO how I feel these days. I haven’t dated in six months, I can’t be bothered. I can’t be bothered with the rudeness, the mind games, the ‘grass is always greener’ mentality that men in their 50s seem to have. At first, I thought it would just be a difficult time (my kid was applying to colleges, I was trying to move and find a new job, etc.), but now I’m finding that I just don’t care anymore.
I’m tired of these men who feel ‘pressured’, especially when I HAVEN’T ASKED THEM TO DO ANYTHING. Two of my close friends, both in early 50s have also, on the face of it, given up. No one has any room in their lives to continue to placate men who simply won’t grow up. Looking back at all the ‘loser babies’ I’ve dated, I realized that ALL their wives left THEM, not the other way around. And clearly, there is a reason these men are single.
I’m finding, the longer I go without a man, that the less interested I am in finding one. Netflix is awesome, isn’t it?
colororange,
I believe you are on BR for quite some time now? Or maybe I mistake you for somebody else, but isn’t this a classic example of blowing hot, then lukewarm and before you know it, very very cold? In other words, managing down your expectations, in more other words, working towards his status quo, testing how long you will settle with less further down the road. You are right for feeling upset. Most definitely. Coming off at first as somebody who will do what he says and then very subtelety stretches his ‘commitment’ will stretch other things to. No, this is not a drastic conclusion, it doesn’t sit well with you. That you should consider, not whether he takes you as needy or not.
Is he calling ten minutes later or 5 hours later? Do you have a general feeling that he is pulling away from you? Trust your gut.
My now ex AC BF did this to me once early on. I know this sounds extreme but I have a real thing about men saying they will call and then not actually doing so…or calling way later than they said they would. It is just super annoying and disrespectful.
When my ex did it to me once very early on, I pulled him up on it. I told him that I found it disrespectful and it was and always would be something I’m just not prepared to put up with. I didn’t go all crazy, I just told him that Im not up for a relationship with someone who says they’re going to do something and doesn’t follow through. He never did it again!
Unfortunately, the things he did end up doing were way worse than not calling when he said he would 🙁
Perhaps if I’d thratened to walk over those things (and meant it, like I did in those early days) I wouldn’t have been dumped!
I recently had a man I barely know but have seen around for years, pressure me to get involved with him. We had a spontaneous, unplanned lunch a few weeks ago after running into each other and within 15 minutes he was telling me he wanted me to be his girlfriend, how he always thought I was special from afar, how he was painting art again because of me, how he hasn’t had a girlfriend in a long time but running into me was a sign that I was the right one, how he wants to earn a little piece of my heart etc…well it didn’t smell right to me, in fact it reeked. It was way too much out of the gate and turned me off completely. I was polite but up front and said I wasn’t in the market for a bf or dating, just thought we were becoming friends. He basically ignored what I said and didn’t let up and I felt cornered. I started avoiding him so he started showing up to places I go ( I go to a specific beach). I saw him the other day lurking around where I was talking to a guy friend of mine I ran into, I looked over and saw him, so I smiled as he walked by but he acted like he didn’t know me and kept walking, like he was mad. I was like, ‘okay’. Haven’t seen him since, but I will run into him eventually and it’ll be awkward. He pressured me then got mad at me for not allowing it. I think my senses where right about this guy. Trying to quickly label me his girlfriend and bombarding me with how special I was when he barely knows me felt like extreme pressure and a fore warning of him being possessive, a future faker, and a fast forwarder. None of which I can proudly say are attractive to me anymore. Those things no longer make me feel ‘special’ but instead it felt greasy and underhanded. I don’t think the guy is evil but maybe immature and full of himself. I couldn’t get a word in as he talked about himself. Funny thing, he is really involved and respected within the community and donates a lot of his time with at risk youth. But….as most of us have learned, that doesn’t make them relationship material.
Selkie, that’s super creepy. Now when we use the term ‘needy’, this person seems to be the poster child for this term! Also, having dated a definite narcissist, this is EXACTLY how he started off…they think all the compliments towards you will lure you into their den of insanity. When I dated my Narcissist, I was not in a good state and fell for it. But I’ve learned and whenever I see someone displaying this kind of behavior I RUN.
Selkie,
This guy sounds like a complete weirdo, and maybe a stalker. If this continues, I would speak to the authorities.
Be careful !!
oh that’s classic selkie. Yep, he was all geared up to be a future faker, even the ‘you inspire me’ routine. It would all have been about what he could learn/get from you/have you fix him. Funny that it is so transparent now
Fifi, I agree. Definitely a trick up his sleeve.. “Oh, I can just tell her something women like to hear… That always works” – well, not this time!
Good for you, Selkie 😉
Ah Selkie, the ex narc spent a whole year of his life doing good works for at risk youth. Anything that got him attention and an ego stroke basically. I am not saying all people who do these things are personality disordered but this fucker was!
I recently ended a relationship, and another man I knew wanted to start a relationship immediately after. I asked for more time to get my feet on the ground, but he was really insistent. I decided, as many nice attributes he has, that there was something wrong with pushing me so hard, so I passed. Lots of alarm bells went off, and as much as I am a people pleaser, I had to listen to them.
As far as someone doing what they say they will, such as phoning at a certain time, yeah, you can call them on it, if its that important to you. I don’t sweat the phone calls. However, if they don’t arrive at the time and place of a more important event, I will let them know it is disrespectful. You need to decide if it is about respect on their part, or control on yours.
Men who are just looking for a@#$% often make like they want a relationship so that they can get laid by much higher quality womyn that they would not get had they been honest about their true intentions. Feeling “pressured”, accusing another of being needy is merely a reaction to these dudes being expected to walk their talk.
I think that’s true. It’s like, if they only had their looks and a good attitude to bring to the table it wouldn’t be enough, but if they can offer love as well it makes them “worth” more to a woman; I think they view it as an extra chip in the game, something that out and out makes them more attractive. I don’t really believe in “leagues” and people being out of them (YMMV), but I think these men do and I think they are trying to get off with women whom they consider out of their league by casting the whole thing as romantic.
Ironically, I would respond well to a man I’d met a couple of times, one without much cash/status (thinking about what men think they themselves lack here, not my priorities) or obvious good looks, propositioning me for a fling, and if I felt sexual chemistry with him I’d go for it (and have in the past), though I’d make sure he knew if I wasn’t up for a relationship. If a man isn’t willing to discuss sex though, it’s a red-flag for them being a trickster; I tried that with one whose nature I knew (he’d done it to other women I knew), and me prioritising sex over love in the short term blew his tiny mind. He was so sure his usual tactic would work. So like others here, the full-on focus on love really puts me off, because it makes me really suspicious, which is sad because it means a little less romance in the world but hey, safety first.
Yep, my ex promised me the whole package – marriage and kids before we became intimate. After that, he slowly pulled away, only communicating with me via text, and making time for me at school or at his house after 8pm because he had full-time custody of his kids. He never once thought to get a babysitter to take me out to dinner. I felt bad because he had no support or family to help him, so I allowed him to get away with a lot of things. But he also knew my deal breakers. So after six months of being together, one day after receiving some nasty email from his ex-wife, he told me that because his ex wife was making his life hell, he decided he did not want to get remarried again. This is after we had a great weekend together, and he said that he was in “our” relationship 100 percent and wasn’t going anywhere. I was floored. Despite impulsive decision (via text by the way), he wanted to be friends, claiming he tried to be the best boyfriend he could be. I told him absolutely no, and immediately applied NC. Unfortunately, we attend school together, so I do see him here and there. It is hard, but doable. I act indifferent, even though it breaks my heart because I truly believed he cared and wanted the same things. If he had been more realistic about his intentions, I would have made a better informed decision. I would have never been intimate with him otherwise or agreed to be in a relationship, and he knew that. Sometimes I feel like a fool, but at the end of the day, I know he is a miserable human being because he has to lie to get what he wants.
Thank you. Once again this is very helpful in my currect situation. I am accused of putting on pressure and being put under pressure to fast forward the relationship when it suits. I don’t know if I’m coming or going literally! I feel less pressure to comply or absorb blame having read your article. I do need to spend time clarifying my boundaries and because they have always been porous this takes a huge effort. Feels like now is a good time to be fearless. No pressure then. Or no pressure that is unexplored or misunderstood.
This rings a confusing bell with me! Haha! A few months back I met a guy on line who described himself as “actively seeking a longterm relationship” we chatted and got on, swapped numbers and 2 weeks later decided to meet up. He had been very good and said he would meet where I felt comfortable and said that I didn’t have to swap numbers before I was ready etc. we met up got on really well and all seemed good! He said how he really liked me and that he saw me as someone he would introduce to his family etc… All that rubbish!!! He made me laugh and we had (seemingly) lots in common. So it gets to our 3rd meeting… He wanted sex, I said I’d like to have a little more time to get to know him and he said that’s fine and we talked about what we would do the next weekend, after we decided on our plans he tried to initiate sex again and I said that I really would like to wait a little longer as I’d only met him 3 times!! He said ok. The next day I got a text to say that he felt we had turned into a relationship too fast and that he wasn’t ready to commit to anyone at the moment! How does that make sense??? I asked to slow it down so got dumped accused moving too fast??? He is an idiot!! I’m even more glad now that I have more respect for myself!! And btw 2 days later he was again active on the dating site!! He was the very definition of an ASSCLOWN!!!
He was probably never off the site. What is with this ‘Third Date Rule’? Is this an American thing? EVERYONE seems to believe it’s the law or something. And if you don’t put out on the third date, they dump you. Yet IF you put out on the third date, they think you’re just out for some fun and not a contender for a real relationship.
Ya can’t win!
Tracy, this is EXACTLY it! I recently broke up with a guy who was obviously keen to sleep with me asap, though I did make him wait a while in the end! Then 9 months down the line and he was accusing me for sleeping with him too quickly back when we got together! He also talked about getting married, sent me links to flats so we could move in together, wanted us to put a deposit down on a very expensive holiday, told me he wanted to have children with me and then ‘dumped’ me by not answering my calls for a week! He said HE was feeling pressured and ‘not ready for a relationship’, What the hell! I was the one who said all along that there was no rush! You literally can’t win!
Now Im left wondering where it all went wrong. He seemed ready to commit, he pushed for us to get more serious, he spoke of ring sizes and moving in etc etc, HE BROUGHT IT UP. Now he’s suddenly feeling that he’s ‘not ready for a relationship’? I can’t help feeling it was something I did though. Maybe he’s ready for a relationship but just not with me.
I just feel like giving up. They want everything on their terms. I tried not putting too much pressure on it all, as I didn’t want to and he said he felt I wasn’t putting effort into us and didn;t love him as much as he loved me. So I let my guard down, trusted that he meant what he said and started to see myself marrying him, started saving to move in together and BAM, suddenly he’s actually ‘not ready for a relationship right now’.
He’s also seemingly not ready to leave me alone either as he keeps texting and calling to tell me he ‘still loves me’ and wants to meet up but is ‘scared to see me’. Where do I find these men!
Little,
Maybe he wanted these things, but when he realized that he had to follow through on his words, he found he wasn’t capable – my ex did the same thing. These men are a waste of time!
My question to you: why haven’t you blocked this guy?
Yes Little, same here.
He pushed to get engaged, pushed to get married, then ran for the hills when I started looking for wedding venues.
I think they want a relationship too but are so insecure/lazy, they think they have to offer more and more dramatic things to get quickly past the stage where you are evaluating them. Simply, they want you to make them feel good about themselves. Not the reality of a loving partnership. And although they crave security, once they have it, they think they are fixed and are off. It’s all about them. Think these are the sort of guy who respond best to the ‘treat em mean and keep em keen’ treatment – they are forever having to prove themselves, and like that.
I’m so glad he’s gone though, and glad of the experience – it woke me up to how I was contributing to it and other situations in my life. A real wake up call.
A Little Bit…my last relationship was with a master future faker. HE brought up meeting kids, HE brought up the idea of me moving closer, HE referred to my kids as his future step-kids, HE wanted to meet my sister when she was in town. I NEVER brought up any of these topics, I never brought up the idea of meeting HIS child. Hell, I wouldn’t even RESPOND when he brought up these topics. Yet all of a sudden, like over the course of two days, he suddenly needed ‘a break’, being in a relationship was ‘too difficult’. We only saw each other once a week! I never even asked for more, so I couldn’t figure out what he needed a break from! And when I got in touch with him a few weeks ago (dumb, I know) he made it seem like *I* left the relationship.
You can’t win with this type, and now I’m at the point where I feel like MOST men on-line are just emotional cripples.
The “Third Date Rule” needs to be banished, in my opinion. Assuming dates 1 through 3 last between 3 to 5 hours, that’s not enough time for me to drop my drawers for a perfect stranger no matter how funny or drop dead gorgeous he is. When things have progressed to the infamous third date, there has been like an unspoken (and sometimes spoken) pressure for sex. Fortunately, I take BR with me and my self-esteem is mostly in tow and I blow off any dude who thinks three dates and they are in. It doesn’t much matter what their profile states regarding long term stuff. It’s what they do that matters. 3 dates simply isn’t a long term relationship. It’s 3 dates.
Sounds like you speaking your truth and maintaining your boundaries allowed you to separate a contender with a pretender…by him showing his true colours early, you didn’t get emotionally entrapped. You are one of the lucky ones.
I thought I was making love to a guy who told me he loved me to get me into bed and then left me. He was a family friend too…one I had known for many years.
Sim, unfortunately, family friends must also be heavily scrutinized. A few years ago, a family friend – who also happened to be an assistant minister of my family’s church and a sort of guidance counselor (by proxy)- attempted to initiate a friends-with-benefits relationshit with me. I had known him since I was in elementary school and he is more than ten years my senior. My shock and horror at the attempt and the FWB vs. genuine, loving relationship was too much to bear, and within days, I cut communication altogether. I have been NC for five years now.
Also, I find that mindfulness (as NML advises), planting one’s feet firmly in reality, and adopting inquisitiveness are especially necessary when evaluating potential dating partners.
Thanks for this post Natalie. I am trying to face up to my own commitment issues and your post struck a nerve. I regularly agree to do things I know damn well I have no intention of following through on, then I make up excuses to get out of it.As you say, I would rather tell people what they want to hear to avoid conflict, then backtrack on it later.
Something else I need to work on *big sigh*
@ colororange
Well, I can tell you from my own experience. My first boyfriend was like that. And was not THAT into me. I mean… if someone is serious (=doesn’t see as someone he/she can just pass time with until something better happens to come around) and wants to get to know you, they appreciate your time and call when they told you they would call! They wouldn’t risk you not being interested or less interested because of such a “peanut”! I mean they wouldn’t make you wait for their call, right? Or make you feel being in a wondering situation and feeling unsure: to call them back first or not (because they said they WOULD call, but they didn’t).
Basically if your gut feelings says this is not appropriate it’s not appropriate. If they do that at the beginning I personally would not invest more and just stop seeing them. If they wonder what’s up you could still say that what you are pissed about, but that’s me.
Or you could address that issue now , give it a chance and look how they behave, if they improve. But I tell you again, if that’s the beginning of the getting to know each other and you don’t feel very well about that behaviour I would cut it. Because it’s important to you, them being responsible and that has to do something with calling when they said they would call! So, yes maybe you have different values and it wouldn’t work anyway. Remember that you are worth the best and not something mediocre! And that behaviour IS mediocre, your gut tells you that.
I believe in a wider context it is sometimes known as “common courtesy.”
NoMoDrama, EXACTLY.
Colororange. Why can’t you two leave it flexible, e.g. “later this evening”, etc. That way you are not sitting by the phone. I think it’s unrealistic to expect a man to call exactly at the moment he promised. If he is getting less reliable about time, you go do something you need to do. You should not let him think you’re panting by the phone for his call. If he doesn’t get you and complains, throw the ball back in his court and say, “You didn’t give a specific time”. If he cares enough he’ll probably make more of an effort to reach you when you’re expecting the call.
I think you do look overly sensitive if you make an issue of it verbally. Men are not really that oblivious or stupid, and sometimes they will “test” you.
I love ya Tink, but I disagree with you about her looking overly sensitive by saying it bothers her. And…..If a guy is doing irritating things to ‘test’ you on purpose, then he is being passive aggressive and manipulative.
I do agree with you that she shouldn’t wait for his call if he is late…..she should go do something else and not waste her time waiting on him. If he cares, he’ll wise up but this guy already told her to ‘relax’. Not very caring, when all he has to do is pick up the phone and call when he says he’s going to.
I agree, I think if the guy doesn’t call you around the time he said, then I would go and do something else (without my phone) if he gets pissy about the fact that you weren’t there to take the call you know he is bad news
2Fearce. I agree with Tabitha. After I went NC with the MM, I realized that I had to do the same with his close friend who worked for him as a contractor. The friend and I were fairly good platonic friends, but I had to tell him that since I was no longer intending to see the MM I would have to stop engaging with hi also. I did not want to hear anything about the MM’s life (which would have been inevitable), nor did I want him to hear anything about my activities. Now, your situation is different, but you state that she is trying to make the moves on you. Unless you are willing to go back on your decision to end it, you will have to end your relationship with her kids also. She will continue to use your seeing them as a means of toying with you. I use the word “toying” because she supposedly is seeing someone else. She doesn’t sound like a person who deserves your attention. As far as her kids are concerned, they will be fine and bounce back after a couple of weeks. Kids are far more resilient than we are. Cut all ties. Good luck.
Tink, I agree with the having to cut ties with peripheral people at times too, I agree that kids are resilient, however, I don’t agree that we are not as resilient. We adopted our malfunctions as a result of the malfunctions of those who influenced us as children. My view is that the children deserve an explanation as to why someone important to them is going to no longer be in their lives. The details of the disfunctional relationship should not be foistered upon them, but at the very least an explanation that it is nothing THEY did, but that sometimes adults have to do things that they don’t want to but find necessary due to circumstances beyond their control. As children we have no frame of reference except to make it because of us and internalize messages that we make up, not knowing that there is a whole world of dynamics that we have no part in, understanding or control over. I know from my father leaving (and saying nothing)that that impacted me deeply and tainted my ability to form close bonds and relationships. I believe a ‘I love you, I will miss you, but I have things I have to do which require me to be absent and I don’t know if it means forever or just a time, only time will tell’ will make a world of difference for these children. They deserve as much an explanation and respect as we do when someone we are attached to decides to go.
Hey, Selkie, girl. How’s it going? The way I see it the only thing we disagree on is verbally calling him out on being late to phone. I understand your point, and agree. I guess my style is to SHOW how I feel. To say to him,”You didn’t call me at 6pm, like you said you would”, or anything of that nature seems like I’m back in the 6th grade. He knows what he’s doing. I advised that she go about her business and not wait for his call and if he complained about not reaching her, she could then verbally let him know, tactfully, that she has a life, too. I think if a man is really interested they will do what they said or very close to it. I found, and still find it surprising that my boyfriend calls at the exact time agreed upon or if not, he will offer a reason why. and it’s always a good reason. This, I realize is unusual.
hey Tinkerbell, as much as I do understand your point of view, and we share the same conclusion on the not calling when they said they would, your suggestion is passive agressive. To SHOW how you feel is very free for interpration from him. And trust me (or the everyday AC stories), if he has to know how you feel by you just showing how you feel and not expressing it clearly,(you could have a million reasons why you don’t pick up the phone) he will take whatever you think you’re showing into his own judgement and it won’t be in favor of your boundaries. Learn how to express yourself clearly, don’t make ’em try to mindread, you’ll only add it to the selfblame afterwards.
and also @Tink,
though I’m glad your bf always has good reasons for not calling when he said he would. And yes, when a man is interested he will do what he says he will, and good reasons for not being punctual ‘that one time’ are good reasons. Point taken. But then, this wouldn’t produce an icking feeling for Colororange in the first place , I think? It’s repeatedly saying he’d call and then doesn’t, or stretches the timelaps further down the road. I still hear my gut saying, ‘ahoy! big red flag ahead!’.
Well. I gotta say. I don’t believe in jumping down a guys throat immediately. I don’t whine, I leave. I guess I give them enough rope to hang themselves. Anyway, it’s all moot for me, right now. But I’m not being haughty because I know things can change when I’m not expecting it.
Thanks for your input.
Tink, I love the way you said: ” I don’t whine, I leave” MY MOTTO from now on:) Thanks!
You know what I’ve had multiple times? Men ignoring the fact that I’m ill because it means they can’t have what they want immediately. I do have long-term health problems, but even when they’re in remission I’ve been prone to colds (really debilitating ones that stop me sleeping, give me chronic indigestion, all kinds of things that mean I’m not up to a conversation let alone a date). The last time this happened me and a guy on a dating website were chatting and getting on fairly well, nothing very exciting but it was early days, and I said I wouldn’t be able to reply to his by now quite long, detailed and personal message for a couple of days because I was sick and felt like my head was full of fluff (I wanted to be able to do it justice). He emailed me back saying that he “had waited too long for someone to show him the way in life” (what?) and could I reply please? Uh no, I don’t think so. Bye.
As I say, that was far from the first time my physical illness has been treated as me having an attitude problem. If I stay with them, what else are these men going to demand I do when I’m not able to? Not safe. Instant flush.
Not an excuse to see her at all.
Not hoping she’ll see how great I am.
Doesn’t matter cuz I’m done.
Really hate that she’s using them as a power play though… Clearly that’s all her letting me see them is about. She knows full well if it weren’t for them I’d be fine never speaking to her again.
At least I got kiss and hug them n tell them I love them…
Ps– Imma miss the runts!
This post was right on time. Just this past weekend, I cut this assclown off because I told him on two occasions that I wanted to take things slowly. We met online almost a month ago and after previously bad relationships, I wanted to take my time. My gut began talking to me…this man was pressuring me and really pushing affection. To make a long story short, he forced himself on me. Needless to say, I totally cut him off. Listen to your gut ladies and don’t let anyone bust your boundaries.
Lavendar (Lavender?): Did I get you right? Have you been raped? In that case I hope you’re getting all the help and support you need!
What kind of world are we living in???
This post was JUST what I needed!
Do you guys think my situation applies here?
Three AMAZING dates with guy. Completely platonic, him super into it. Very obviously date-like. fourth date: I try to kiss him. He freaks, out, claiming he didn’t know these were dates, still hurting from previous abusive relationship but wants to try it with me. Does the whole “planning the relationship 6 months ahead”, which to me is a huge red flag…I haven’t even said anything about a relationship…it’s just date four…
stuff happens (no sex but close). next morning he freaks out, gets angry, says he doesnt have time for a girlfriend, almost acts like I was “pressuring him” into a relationship and even into being physical last night(I definitely did not!!!). i leave super confused/hurt/flabbergasted.
later, after accusing ME of “causing drama” (wow uh… think it was the other way around buddy) he finally apologizes and tells me that he “thought he was ready to date but isn’t”, apologized for moving too fast and “would make a bad boyfriend due to turmoil in his life”.
and now he is super cold, never talks to me at all or invites me out despite talking to me constantly before. i deleted him from facebook, but it’s awkward because we attend the same art group.
my question is: do I even stay friends with this guy? I was incredibly hurt because Id never felt so much for someone before in such a short time, and the way he acted was so confusing and hurtful, and unexpected.
but i feel like, even with this delayed apology i had to practically force out of him…is it even worth it? is it worth “sticking around”, especially after being treated in such a confusing way?
No. He’s done you a huge favor.
There is no friendship here. The same qualities that make him a bad bet for a boyfriend (sounds like a great deal of immaturity) also make him a bad bet for a friend. It’s all one piece.
Hi Chritine,
Sorry to hear about this situ, you must feel really dissapointed! When things take a turn like that its always a shock and a big let down. However, I think this guy is trying to be honest with you – though not going about it in a very good way. He’s saying he’s ‘still hurting from a previous abusive relationship’. As many of us on this site know, that is a HARD thing to move on from. It sounds like he perhaps THOUGHT he was ready to move on but if he can’t even call your meetings a date or kiss you, thats not a good sign that this is going anywhere fast.
I know its really hard when you feel that initial swell of emotion for someone but I agree with ‘NoMo Drama’, this guy has done you a favour. You dont want to be waiting around for him to get over something / move on / be ready to comit to you and dealing with all the drama and indecisivness that comes with it. This could take years and as NML says ‘he’s just not that special and you’re not that desperate’ – literally my fave ever quote of Natalies 🙂
He sounds like he’s in a bad place. Above you’ve descibed him as being ‘angry’, ‘supercold’ and ‘blaming you’ for his issues. Is that something you really weant to get involved with. These are just SOME of the behaviours I ignored in my now ex AC BF and I really wish I had taken note of what was actually going on (though it was a lot more subtle).
This guy is showing you who he is and what he is prepared to give (nothing) at this moment in time.
You could save yourself a lot of obsessing, analysing and heartbreak and walk away. You never know, if he manages to work through what he’s struggling with, he could get in touch.
I really hope you dont think Im being harsh, I just wish I’d found this site when I was blocking out the red flags I saw in my last relationship. It would have saved me A LOT of tears.
Wishing you lots of luck xxx
WTF? Christine. Why would you be hurt? YOU fast forwarded things, and behaved like you were eager for intercourse. Sorry to be hard on you, but that’s a turn off for most men. They prefer to get the ball rolling when it come to sexual intimacy. Slow your roll!
And he was not relationship material, anyway.
Tinkerbell, I feel HIGHLY offended by your comment.
FIRST. When I kissed him, we were cuddling under a blanket watching a romantic movie. And I kissed him ON THE CHEEK.
How does that mean I am showing that I am “ready for intercourse”? Your comment makes me feel like you’re calling me slutty and I don’t appreciate it.
Christine. I read your post in the order that you wrote it and responded in kind. You clearly stated that you tried to kiss him. The guy seemed to consider things platonic, but you fast forwarded. Then you blame him for not responding the way you wanted. Now granted the guy was definitely an asshole. You sure found that out. I told you to slow down and I still think you need to do so. You said he thought you were pressuring him into more than he wanted. The way I see it, and the way ou did.was dead wrong for MAYBE leading you on, although that’s not how you explained it.
Christine,
This guy is insane or at least highly neurotic. No need for you to make sense out of him. Please be safe and run as if the devil is breathing in your neck, you don´t need this kind of nut in your life.
Woah, double-standard alert, Tink!
Either a bloke thinks that it’s okay to have sex quickly or he doesn’t. If he doesn’t, he should abide by his own rule and hold off.
I don’t see that the onus should be on the woman to second-guess his secret internal moral codes of gendered behavioural standards. And in any case, I’ve found that those codes are very flexible in order to accommodate and justify Whatever The Hell He Feels Like Doing.
Christine,
Hell no! Wait around for what! More nuttiness!!
This guy has a lot of issues, and doesn’t even qualify as friendship material. Weirdo!
Thanks, Jewells. You’re right. I was not considering how sensitive some children can be, and that perhaps he was more attached than they were. But, regardless, they do have a tendency to think that the sudden disappearance of someone with whom they may have bonded is their fault. I agree, an appropriate explanation should be given. But the mother, it seems would make matters worse, in this case. Anyway. 2 Fearce will figure it out, I’m sure. (See his last post).
Christine, I am so sorry, you DID NOTHING WRONG!!! Why do you need him in your life?! He is not worth of your attention, he already showed his true colors, no wonder you were confused by his behavior! Please try to ignore him, you deserve someone much better! xx
were you guys drinking? just wondering. It’s so easy to do stuff you wouldn’t normally do, aka liquid courage. If you guys had a few drinks maybe you got more intimate than either of you were ready for/really wanting.
Nope, absolutely no drinking involved. And mind you, before I tried to kiss him ON THE CHEEK (okay granted I didn’t make this distinction earlier), we were cuddling under a blanket, in his room with the door closed, watching a romantic movie.
Before we pikced the movie, he was like “oh, i see you skipped the romance section, during the movie, he kept saying stuff like “man, I hate it when guys cheat on their girlfriends… I’m all about monogamy”..and when the couple were kissing under a blanket, he said “oh, hey, isn’t that what we are doing?”
along with **major** flirting from his end during the three dates.
so it’s not like I just RANDOMLY KISSED HIM ON THE CHEEK out of nowhere, you guys!
And then, I should mention, that after I kissed him on the cheek, he freaked the hell out acting like it had just come out of nowhere and that he was *clueless* that these were dates. (but admitted he had a crush on me).
Like come on… he did tell me he didn’t have a lot of relationship experience, and many of his friends are girls. But what exactly do you think cuddling with a girl alone while watching a movie is??
and i get it that guys are dense, but he’s 30 years old for crying out loud, not born yesterday!
and then the whole “let’s plan out our entire relationship 6 months in advance” even though I hadn’t even MENTIONED us getting together yet, but then the next day acting like *I* was the one pressuring *him*. Yeah right!
I’ve learned that people that claim to be pressured are not long term relationship material. They may be one day, but not now. I’ve had the pressure card pulled on me and after discussing it with the other person, and verifying that both of us were OK with taking things slowly, the relationship ended quickly afterwards. While there are times when one person is pressuring the other, in the example you cite, the guy just isn’t ready for a long term commitment.
Thanks so much for the responses, guys.
I guess though… WHAT was this guy thinking? I mean, this guy was ALL OVER ME. And then the moment something physical happens (not even sex, keep in mind), he freaks out and does a 180?
When *HE* was the one future faking (at one point he even said we should move to Los Angeles together?!), planning out our relationship 6 months to a year in advance??
If anyone has some insight on WHY he acted this way, wow would I be appreciative. So I can just stop THINKING about it. That’s what bugs me. Did I say something wrong?? Why would someone pull a complete 180 like that after a night of fun (without even having sex?)
would just appreciate any insight on WHY. To me that just seems ridiculous and crazy. I can’t even comprehend it. What was he thinking?
I just cannot whatsoever understand what was going on in his head. And there were no noticable FOCR signs either, other than a few mentions of his ex and being upset about how hard it is to do art as a career and not liking his job…..
well…wait a second…now that I think about it, maybe that falls under sob story? Also, I am 23 and he is 30.
Maybe it was fantasy turning into uncomfortable reality?
In addition to my note above (sorry, didn’t see this one).
You didn’t do or say anything ‘wrong’ Christine. He said he was still hurting from a previous abusive relationship. You could have been the most perfect girl in the world and he’d STILL be hurting from a previous relationship and therefore not ready to give you what you want. He’s EU at this moment in time, all the signs are there.
Its so frustrating when they future fake and paint this picture of an ‘us’ and ‘we’ situ that they just aren’t prepared to actually give. The behaviours of Mr Unavaiables are crazy and ridiculous. Dont be so hard on yourself though and dont try to internalize what are clearly HIS issues.
You went into something with an open mind and hope of a future, thats not a bad thing. You just went in with the wrong guy…like every one of us on this site 🙂 x
Thanks “a litle bit stuck”, and everyone else who commented on my post. I truly appreciate your comments!
It helps to hear that it wasn’t me, but that it was him with the issues here!
Christine
The future faking isn’t a sign that he’s ready or a good bet, it’s a sign that he doesn’t think before hr speaks. He did that before he met you and likely will again. It’s not normal to talk about moving after one or two dates.
Also, you need to slow yourself down. Date four is nice, and has some significance but you’re still basically strangers.
Christine,
When someone – who you don’t know – says you should move to another city together, you should see this as a blaring red flag. How can you plan such an important decision with someone you’ve been on a few dates with. This doesn’t make sense!
Thanks. Yeah, good point.
I think he was meaning it in sort of a flippant, joking manner…but still!!!! Such a bizarre thing to say!! I would never say that to someone.
You’re right, that was the FOCR I ignored because I was so enamored with him.
This is an example in ‘He’s just not that into you’. I think that if you are really not over a relationship you should not be cuddling under a blanket with another person, then making out with them, and all the while freaking out about how you’re not ready. Ugh.
This guy is EU, and also, he’s leading you on, then backing off, then blaming you, then going coco bananas. He likes drama. ‘Not over’ stuff is often classic drama behavior. Its a way to lead women on, yet keep them at bay. If you’re self aware enough to know that you aren’t over something, then you are an adult. Adults dont lead others on when they arent ready, and then blame the other person for it. Double ugh. And as you said, it was only date 4 – people that are willing to cuddle under blankets but freak out at a kiss on the cheek are drama creators and game players.
Dont keep this person as a friend, and no more cuddling.
THANK YOU. 30 years old going on 16 years old, seems more like it…
And then later, what really pissed me off, when he told me that he “thought he was ready to date again but just isn’t”, and would make a bad boyfriend or whatever…
then, he made it sound like he knew that the meetups were dates all along!!! So he LIED to me! Over something so insignificant stupid. To protect his ass. F**king pissed me off.
Dear Christine, Red Flag No. 1 He has told you he would “make a bad boyfriend”, in his own words he has already established what kind of boyfriend he would make and he is not ready for a relationship…he has issues and you would be dealing with this sort of drama on a weekly basis. There is obviously something in his dating history and sounds like he is not totally over his ex.
Red Flag 2…the future faking and moving to other cities together..what the!!!!..especially when he had difficulty sharing the blanket and a kiss. Don’t make the mistake of getting involved with hot and cold drama seeking men! Waste of precious time.
Natalie, I love you! Your post made me smile and furious the same time, but in the very good way, thank you! Yet again, I remember how ACs behaved themselves: when last time I had sex with AC number 2,he was happy and frisky before sex but after we finished, all over sudden he started to have pain in his ear haha and did not wanted to talk about anything, I even had an impression he wanted to rid of me LOL!
AC number 1 was chasing me for 2 months before being intimate with me and the day I “gave it” to him, all over sudden his ex came to his life!!! WOW, I will REMEMBER that:)
Ha Little Star, Im glad you can see the funny side of these two guys’ behaviour. Its so OUTRAGEOUS you just have to find the funny side. Gotta wonder how these people were brought up that they think its ok to treat a woman like that? The guy with the ‘sudden pain in his ear’ story had me laughing out loud.
Ac’s – you just have to laugh…or you’l continue to cry 🙂 x
Trust me Little Bit of Stuck, at the time it was not funny:( but I am laughing now, as I am trying to forget about my painful past and concentrate on my bright and happy future:), no more lust/booty call, only loving and caring relationships!
The night that my ex decided to cut ties with me – we had slept together and he moments after declared that this wasn’t what he wanted, he wanted to move away blah blah blah – a month later I realised he had been seeing someone else the whole time and so i’d just been replaced
Harsh.
Marie, sometimes I think all “our” ACs went to the same AC college , it is just SHOCKING how many similarities in our stories!!! Obviously, if your AC said in advance about his “true intentions”, you would not slept with him, wound you?!!! What a piece of sh@t!
I had a recent ‘thing’, 4 dates with someone I met online. We had 4 really nice dates, the last one at my home. We kissed, cuddled etc but clothes stayed on. He definitely wasn’t pushing for sex, which felt kind of unusual but also a breath do fresh air. Then he postponed date 5, rescheduled for a few days later at the weekend. He then cancelled date 5, on the morning, and when I expressed my disappointment about that he waited all day and sent a text saying he was too anxious about his course work to get into a relationship now, it wouldn’t be fair, and that he’d rather not risk “worse disappointments” in an effort to see if we progressed.
I felt like I was being punished for being disappointed that he’d cancelled the date at the last minute (date was cancelled because he’d had an “emotionally heavy” night the night before, uncharacteristically drunk too much and was feeling sick and “vulnerable”).
If I hadn’t said I was disappointed, would he have still dumped me?
I felt he was pulling away by cancelling the date, which was supposed to be at his house. Maybe he thought I was expecting sex (no I wasn’t, not least because he hadn’t invited me to stay that night), and that would ‘pin him down’ into a relationship?
If I take it at face value and he really doesn’t feel able to be in a relationship at the moment, why the heck does he still have his dating profile up seeking long term relationship??
Did I pressure him in some way by expressing my disappointment? I was going with my gut, trying to follow Natalie’s guidance on people matching words with actions (like several texts a day and talking about the future but not really matching that by 2 cancelled dates in a week).
But was I being too clingy? Should I have been more relaxed about the cancelled date? Was I pressurising him, or do you think he has commitment or ‘grass is greener’ issues?
Mary
Analysis paralysis. Four dates, you didn’t have sex, he did at least have the decency to break it off rather than disappear. Try to forget it.
He didn’t dump you, four dates isn’t a relationship.
Thanks Grace. These things hurt for me because I get attached quickly, get my hopes up etc. Yes at least he didn’t just disappear but it still floored me. Think I need some face to face counselling tbh.
No it wasn’t a relationship, he used that word saying it wouldn’t be fair for him to be in a relationship blah blah. Yet he’s still on the website looking for long term dating 🙁
It’s so weird. This happened to me a lot when I started dating in my late twenties. Guy was blowing all hot, making me believe I had a “relationship” (“Yay! Finally somebody wants ugly duckling EllyB”, or so I thought), and then… nothing. They stopped calling, they blew lukewarm or cold, they vanished.
I thought it was all my fault. It never occured to me that this happened to women all the time. After all, those things didn’t happen in all those novels I read. They didn’t happen in movies either.
Why did nobody tell me the truth???
Sorry, I meant late teens, not late twenties.
I don’t know, Elly. I am 37 and only just realised it’s not just me! I read posts here and on dearcupid.org and realise how complicated life and love can be.
Mary,
Relax!! You only went out with the guy four times! Let it go!
Yeah I know Allison, but I’m quite lonely and isolated with social anxiety, so when someone has been texting everyday, phoning and arranging dates (seeming really keen) and that suddenly goes … It’s hard. I could understand it more if we’d had an argument or something. Anyway moving on – dating someone else this weekend and will try to be a bit more chilled! And try not to build sandcastles in the sky 🙂
Mary,
Do you get out much with friends and activities?
Please don’t set yourself up with becoming so attached; a lot of unnecessary pressure. Some people connect, and most don’t – Just think of all the times you changed your mind about the guy, was it really about him, or simply a misconnect?
Have fun, and take time to get to know people.
Allison, it’s impossible for me not to get attached unless someone’s a total pig, and even then I still get a little attached! I need to explore/ address that, because I am almost phobic about dating, rejection and ultimately abandonment.
I know what you mean about a misconnect though and yes I’ve dated people where it just hasn’t worked for me. The difference is that I get out after one date, and it’s been some time before I got to date 4 – sounds pathetic but was some achievement 😉
Mary W, I had a date with one guy recently, he wanted to have a relationship with me after ONE date! I liked him but not that much, so I decided to give him one more chance and just to see how I felt BUT after the second date I realized he is NOT for me, and I told him that he was a great guy and one day he will make someone happy, but that person is not me. I am on dating site and I am still looking for long term…I can understand it can be disappointing, but it’s life, we have to carry on:) NEXT!
It’s sounds more to me that, unfortunately, he was giving you the all-too-common phrase of “I am too ______(busy, confused, vulnerable, worried, etc.) to be in a relationship right now.” What that really means is “I was curious about you and we spent time together so I could see how it feels when we’re together, but I don’t think you’re the one so I’ll let you down easy.” Many guys, even well-meaning ones, often think that’s kinder than the truth, which is, “I wanted to see what kind of feelings might develop with you – now I know that this is not what I want. I’m still out there looking for what I want.” Hence him remaining on the dating website. I guarantee that if the “right woman” (in his mind) came along, he’d find all the time he needed. Of course, the letting-you-down-easy technique is not kinder, it’s infuriating, especially if there is some future-faking going on and other mixed signals – but people in general are not good at knowing how to be really honest with others (or even themselves half the time), especially if the truth is something that’s going to be uncomfortable to admit and confront. Being honest about communicating lack of interest/feeling in a respectful and caring way is a skill not many have mastered.
In your case, I’m sure it’s a disappointment and it’s a shame he couldn’t be more honest, but this is what dating is supposed to be: observing, assessing and figuring out how you feel – and sometimes it isn’t “it” for one person or the other. This is where you should be after only 4 dates. Yes, you do risk being hurt, but that’s the normal risk of putting yourself out there in the first place and it doesn’t always mean the other person is a jerk.
I know I’ve been guilty in the past of fudging the truth a bit in the mistaken, but still truly genuine desire to not hurt the other person so I tend to cut others some slack in this area.
(Damn, but I’m becoming more and more fond of old-fashioned courtship rituals: go slowly, take time to know each other, be careful of what you say, infer or promise, be honest and respectful, and absolutely no sex until there is a genuine committment of the heart. Imagine how much confusion and heartache this would avoid!)
Wiser, thank you.
I was trying to stick to the old courtship rituals with this guy (no sex on the horizon really, taking it slow) and you know what, it was actually more intense emotionally in many ways. I was not guilty of inferring anything, but he was.
Anyway, he’s entitled to change his mind for whatever reason and I respect that.
I know from my own experience that the kissing and cuddling can be emotionally dangerous too! I remember once being on my second or maybe third date with a guy, and it was going well but I wasn’t sure if there was a spark or connection happening. I was telling a girlfriend this and she was surprised I hadn’t kissed him yet. “How will you know if there’s a spark or not if you don’t kiss him?” she asked.
Hmmm, got me to thinking. Is kissing and cuddling (or even more intense making out) a legitimate part of the the discovery and curiosity phase? Probably, but then you have to be aware that that’s what it is. Is it ok for me to be kissing a guy to find out how I feel about him? (And therefore is it ok for him to be doing the same to me?). What about the risk to him – I’m kissing him because I’m curious about him and wondering what I’ll feel when I do. He thinks I’m kissing him because I’m ALREADY sure about my feelings and he thinks I’m really into him. But perhaps not, and then he is at risk for hurt and disappointment.
I think that a lot of the pain I hear about on BR might be in this category – the guy is only in the “curious and exploring his own feelings” mode, when we think all the physical affection, the kissing and cuddling, the constant texting and attention means he has all these feelings already. This doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a heartless AC – it does mean that we are in dangerous waters and need to be smarter about protecting our own hearts and emotions in these situations.
In my mind, kissing as a way of dating exploration is one thing – sex is something completely different. I’m disgusted with men who use sex as a way to find out how they feel about their partner, as in “Yep, I was curious about you, I found out and now have lost interest. See ya!” Sex as a way to explore your feelings can be very dangerous emotionally to the other person and unethical to boot. Mary, be very glad that sex didn’t enter the picture here, because I think then now you’d be feeling devastated, not just disappointed.
Hi Wiser,
Yes I wasn’t sure if there was really a spark with this guy (though I enjoyed kissing him) and actually pondered if having sex with him would have ‘glued’ us together a bit – how ridiculous. It might have meant we were good at having sex together, but that’s all!
I am absolutely resolved to stick to no sex until there is a relationship, and actually I think he knew that and bailed out before it got that far. If that’s the case then I should be grateful to him; that he didn’t just have sex and then decide he didn’t have the feelings for me/ the time for a relationship (depending on whether his reasons were true or he was letting me down gently).
Date #5 was meant to be at his house and I think he thought that meant we were going to have sex and then it would become an official relationship. It wasn’t my intention at all.
I feel frustrated that so much was communicated – and not communicated – by text rather than at least by phone or even better still face to face, because I genuinely think that in this case there was a misunderstanding about what was expected.
Since reading BR, I am determined to take things very, very slowly. I have a date with a guy this weekend and I’ve already sounded him out on my views about multiple dating (NO!) and waiting for there to be a real connection before having sex. That might sound a bit heavy, but I thought “what the hell, nothing to lose”. He seems OK with the whole idea. Of course, he might just be going along with whatever I’m saying and chatting back BS but we’ll see.
Yes, I am very glad that sex didn’t enter the picture because I do get devastated. Absolutely devastated. Before this 4-date guy, I had a date with someone really promising (in theory) which ended up in a drunken one night stand and I can’t describe how awful I felt, in a million different ways.
Mary,
Do not ever assume that sex=a relationship. You assumed that if you had sex on date 5, you were together. unless you actually discuss it, you have no idea what it means. Men will sleep with you and assume you are not in a relationship. This is why you expressing your boundaries is very very important.
I’ve run into this one a lot. It’s a tactic to manage your expectations down, a play for the upper hand in the relationship. It puts the onus on you to prove you’re not “needy” and try not to “scare him off” — if you fall for it you’re stuck trying to act as if you don’t expect anything. And I do mean anything — including basic respect and consideration. Last time I ran into it, I said, OK buddy, if you want to play the game of Who Cares Least, I’m done.
Thanks NoMo. The guys a psychotherapist. You would think he’d know a bit better … Or maybe not! I don’t quite get it, still. 🙁
Psycho therapist, indeed.
MaryW — I was speaking generally, and not replying directly to your situation, but the shoe fits perfectly.
Ha ha, ok NoMO, yes the shoe did fit perfectly so I thought you were replying to my rant.
Psycho therapist is about right. I think he’s more neurotic than me!
MaryW,
Just because he’s a psychotherapist doesn’t mean he’s emotionally healthy. I was with a guy who said he was ‘feeling emotionally heavy’ and I tried to be supportive and not expect so/too much. I thought he was opening up to me but it was really his code for….’I can’t handle things’, because soon after he dumped me saying he will always be alone and can’t handle relationships, etc. Grace said to me once when I was writing here about my confusion over this guy’s mixed messages, “You won’t ever win with this guy.” She was spot on. That is classic EU…they want you, they don’t want you, they want you, they don’t want you……nothing you do or did has anything to do with it. You didn’t scare this guy off by being disappointed. Let him go. If this guy is out getting drunk and canceling because he is feeling so emotional and vulnerable and your disappointment sent him over the edge, he isn’t ready to date or someone you want to invest any time with anyway. EUMs are like ticking time bombs. It was only four dates, it may sting that he pulled the plug suddenly, but consider it a blessing. He showed you who he is.
Selkie,
Thanks so much for that. I didn’t understand what he meant by feeling “emotionally heavy” or “vulnerable”, I’m not a therapist and it’s therapist talk! I didn’t know if he meant it in relation to me or other things.
Yes I am really trying to see it as a disappointment rather than. Rejection because he saw some awful thing about me. I did text him back saying I felt he was pulling away, telling about my own anxieties and myself a bit more hoping he’d realise … I don’t know, something! Maybe that I was struggling with it all a bit, too.
I feel like he stumbled at the first hurdle and refused to get up!
But as you say it was most likely a blessing. I was getting a whiff of commitment issues from him before then.
Anyway thanks again, I really appreciate it 🙂
X
(Shouldn’t have been a full stop before rejection, and I didn’t display any awful behaviour traits, but who knows what a psychotherapist sees. He thought a huge scar on my wrist from having the bones pinned after a fracture was a suicide attempt!).
And the award for best BR comment on this post goes to…. (drumroll)….
NoMo Drama!!!!
(applause)
Well done, love. You just put Nat’s lovely post into a goldplated nutshell. That’s EXACTLY why these dudes (mostly) do this (upper hand/ego).
What’s REALLY hilarious is when they try to pull this shite when you’re (figuratively) already out the door. It’s like you’re pulling out of their driveway and they’re running after your car shouting, “I feel so pressured! STOP SMOTHERING ME!!!!”
They can eat my dust.
Love the moniker, by the way, NoMo. It cracks me up every time I see it. 🙂
Thanks, I am honored.
I met a guy a few months ago and we’ve gone out on a few dates, but keep in touch by text daily. He works out of town, and I have a son who I have 50% of the time, so between his schedule and mine, we don’t have many days to see one another in person. He asked for exclusivity fairly quickly, but I have not been ready. He has not pressured me for sex, but we’ve messed around and come very close. We spent the night together last weekend, and he told me that he wasn’t going to pressure me to be exclusive, but that he wanted to be honest with me and let me know that if I wasn’t ready to commit, that he would be keeping other doors open, and in fact would be in the same city as one of his old FWB’s and had thought about seeing her. He let me know that he’s horny. I told him that if I am not ready for exclusivity, and if we’re not sleeping together, that I can’t expect him to close all other doors. Then I got an icky feeling.
Am I being an EUW? Is he pressuring me, or just being honest?
Personally I think the “goal” of a relationship (or the “goal” of dating) isn’t to have sex. Which means, if sex doesn’t happen quickly, that doesn’t mean the guy “needs” to have other options in his life.
Sorry, but nobody “needs” to have sex with another person. That is just sexist BS! As NML has said: he’s horny, not ill.
I think he IS pressuring you. He is blackmailing you with his FWB! Would you want to be with a guy who is using another woman this way? She must be going through hell.
Forget him.
Digs,
He’s being very manipulative. He is trying to force you to commit. See this as an early warning.
You don’t really know this person – texts are very impersonal – and I would question why there is so much pressure.
“If you won’t, someone else will.” How incredibly high-school.
lol NoMo
The discussion came up when he opened the internet browser on his phone and it went right to the dating site, and I asked if he was still active, and he said yes, and explained why. At first I thought fair enough – I have expressed my concerns about us being in a relationship and have not wanted exclusivity, and would in fact go on a date with someone else, but it still felt weird to hear him say that. I know that I have a lot of baggage from my past relationship, and I am trying to change my dating habits, so I constantly doubt myself and my gut feelings.
NoMo Drama, how wonderful how you put the essence of Digs guy into 6 words. I used to be confused about my ex’s ‘honesty’ all the time, and therefor couldn’t see the forest from the trees. I was constantly being overly grateful that he was so ‘honest’ with me that I didn’t actualy listen to what he was telling me. Not his blabbed out story but the underlying message that even he didn’t know he was exposing.
I did share my experience on 26 April post and 22 May; and like so many other posts this post about “under pressure. ..” relate to me in a very interesting way.
I don’t know if it’s off topic but with my ex husband he’d say I’m intentionally pressurizing him to treat me the way he did.
Sorry but I’ll traumatise you again with some examples.
When he examined my private parts, he claimed he felt pressured to do so because apparently I was playing mind games (I had refused to have sex until I had a shower, as I needed to freshen up after the whole day at University and was very tired. After that, to prove to him I wasn’t cheating I’d allow him to inspect me before and after I come back. I also behaved in a way that pressured him to ask for proof of transport tickets and receipts if I went out by myself otherwise why not go with him everywhere. I even had to apologize when he hit me in a Labour ward.
He’d sit me down and offer explanations along the lines “…don’t you ask yourself why I DO THIS to YOU (one of the above acts) and not the other way round? It’s because I behave in a manner that gives you no reason to do so.” Not long after that I caught him on dating site searching for “flat chested black women.”
.
Afro,
For real???? That dude needs a check-up from the neck up.
I am sorry about this. I use to be with a very controlling man, well before insanity I took part of with an exMM (which led me, in desperation, to find BR. exMM = epiphany relationship). Anyway, I was with the former boyfriend for over six years, and he was deeply controlling. He would demand to know every where I had been, everyone I had seen. Nothing as horrible as what you are experiencing, but even what I went through was degrading. When I tried to argue that he was being unreasonable, given that I had no need to control him in the same way, he used that same argument; “Its because I am inherently trustworthy. I give you no cause for suspicion.” How can you argue with that? Fortunately, this relationship is behind me. It smothered me so badly, though, that I became EU and sought out relationships with other EUs like the exMM. Its taken over 3 years to rediscover myself and my strength and pick my relationships more carefully. Anyway, enough about me. I hope that you can break things off with this man. He has no right to treat you this way. It is degrading, and my heart goes out to you.
AfroK,
Is this guy a gynecologist? Sorry, but I´d never heard of someone doing something like that, what would he be looking for? A condom inside your vagina? Jeeez, ACs really come in all types imaginable, I really feel for you.
2fearce,
This is a difficult one, and I can relate with the attachement you have with the girls. Sadly these people have no self love, so how can they act with love towards anyone, including their children. Somehow the children also get caught up in these (crazy) relationships.
I too cared very much for my Ex’s children, especially the oldest who somehow was the outcast and I being Mr. Fixit wanted to do what I could even if from afar to make her feel loved. I think part of the hurt from the loss was the kids. Without a doubt if (we) set out to do the right thing in a relationship and there are children involved then it’s natural to embrace the children also.
I still remember her dauther speaking to me in private and saying that “I’ve never seem MOMMY happier than when she is with you” Yet her issues ran so deep that ultimately she ended things in a way that I am still grappling with.
It’s not easy but you must not contact the children if you find that this is an unhealthy relashionship. The more it prolongs the more difficult it will be to remove yourself from the childrens lives. The reality is that down the road there will be another man in their lives and hopefully she will choose as man who will also care for those children as you have.
Good luck,
Free 2 Be C
Colororange,
I’d look for other code amber behavior first. If he says hes going to call and not call at all or call later than expected and not give a pardon or reason then you may want to reconsider after you cleary explain to him what your expecting. I for one try to be respectful and call when I say I will, but truth I don’t ever recall being in a situation where I was on the clock to make a call. In my proffesion I take meetings all day long and phone conferences and often run longer than expected. I am also a road warrior and calling and traveling on the road is becoming more or an issuse. BUT I DO UNDERSTAND. If he said I need to call you back at “XYZ time” and rarely ever does, explain how it makes you feel and that it’s not part of the relationship dynamic you are intrested in.
Good luck,
Free 2 Be C
Tinkerbell: re your comment to Christine…What the heck? I’ve no idea how you distilled what she wrote into an ‘eagerness for sex that men find unattractive’ (paraphrasing). Goodness me! We are grown women and we are allowed to have sex when we want to!
THANK YOU. And I should mention we didn’t even have sex!! And HE was the one saying he wished he had a condom.
Christine,
I´m beginning to suspect he has some venereal disease… or something equally harmful. Either way, you´re better off without him. See my previous reply to your first post.
Free– We were good till the end…. lol I’m a woman… yup… as is she. Otherwise, advice noted n well received.
All,
I think in some ways she’s jealous of them being so connected with me. It’s been the source of contention before with her thinking I didn’t spend enough time alone w her. Yeah, silly me for thinking they were a package deal n she’d be glad to find someone who loves all of them.
Anyhoo, what’s done is done. Bye bye cuties ;(
I think there are things that appear small in the beginning of a relationship that indicate that a person may be unreliable, are used to busting boundaries or will use manipulative communication when we express our concerns.
I think it is fair to give people a few chances and to be flexible to a degree but usually we can sense when something does not sit well with us.
So I think we need to pay attention to them so that we know how much time we are willing to spend and how much we want to invest. If a friend told me they were going to phone within a specific time range (rather than just “tomorrow” ) I would go out of my way to be available and if they didn’t phone and it happened a few times I would consider them as being inconsiderate and not valuing my time.
I had this experience recently with a colleague who I admire and respect for her knowledge on certain shared topic areas…she really is very highly respected, interesting and informed. But I had seen a few examples of her just not following through with her projects with others and in small degrees also in the past with me so when she asked me very enthusiastically to be part of a team on a new interesting project she was building I was wary. And then she acted true to form…asking me to be available for telephone meetings (which I prepared for because of the skills I was being asked to bring). The time for the teleconference came and went, followed by an email some hours later saying it never happened because somebody was sick but asking me to be again available for another more formal meeting the next day. So this is business for me and I set the time aside, again prepared etc and again it didn’t happen. She called several hours later saying it just didn’t work out and she would “call later” to discuss. Still waiting for that. This was on the back of my already having some warning flags.
This was showing disrespect for me, for my skills and for my schedule. So really the next time she calls about a work project I won’t bite because I have enough evidence that this is not how I want to spend my time. I considered raising it with her but actually I think this is how she does operate and I don’t think it is worth my time.
When I was classic Miss Unavailable with a penchant for drinking, pathological lying, cheating, deception, manipulation, and just plain craziness, I would pressure an ex by telling him how I wanted us to have a future together, have children, get married and grow old together. I now look at the memory of the bewildered response of this pot, porn addicted domestic abuser, as he sat in disbelief staring at the floor saying, “I don’t know” with understanding. Back then I’d fly into hysterics demanding “Why not?!@” and “Don’t you want me? Don’t you want to be with me?!”
He wanted exactly what he was doing and giving, which wasn’t much. I was hell bent on getting a man with vile behavior to love me (just like with my father) and hiding behind his obvious rage and addictions so that I wouldn’t have to face mine.
A bit off topic but something happened in my town that left me disturbed a year or so ago. A local man holding a high position in his line of work allegedly hired a hit man to have the lover of his ex killed. Obviously this is inherently beyond disturbing. But what bothered me apart from this heinous irrational behavior was certain people’s responses to it. They were concerned with knowing what this mystery women who evoked such ‘passion’ looked like and less with the pathology of the situation. I was appalled.
What this man did was not a crime fueled by love or authentic desire. The reasons why people go crazy over romantic situations are enough to fill at least a hundred books.
Love, romantic or otherwise does not cause people to kill, harm, beat, seek revenge or any of the like. These things are fueled by irrationality, deep subconscious wounds, misinformation, a largely faulty belief system, lack of impulse control (which is a lack of mindfulness), but not love.
In the famous words of Tina Turner who knew all too well the destructive forces of torturous entanglement, “What’s love got to do with it?”
Nothing.
Love feels good, warm, pleasurable, joyous, sweet and fills us with gratitude. Love is about shared values, moving in similar positive directions and sincerely wanting the best for each other on all fronts.
Also, sensationalizing violent crimes in the media is a very bad idea. Sensationalism can lead to glamorization. When I contemplate these crimes on the media, I am overcome with sorrow.
I want to say love is kind instead of sweet. Not over empathizing, and not insincerely sweet, but sincere, genuine authentic kindness emanating from a warm, good place and heart.
Peanut: Love your comments!
Thanks, EllyB. I have enjoyed yours as well. And gotta love a Tina Turner reference!
Good post, Peanut.
I find that life became easier when I redefined love. Love is actually ACTING in the other person’s best interests and SHOWING them care.
Generally, when people refer to love, though, they mean the woodly cuddly warm feelings inside and those are just as likely to be hormones and/or a good day for the digestion.
I didn’t make this distinction until I had a baby – there were plenty of times (usually at 2am) when I didn’t FEEL loving, I felt like throwing him out of the window. I know that I love him, though, because I didn’t, I looked after him instead.
In all my relationships before, I didn’t love people at all or else I loved them very badly – it was about what *I* felt and trying to find a sticking-plaster for *my* fears, rather than about what was actually good for them. A lot of it was control, manipulation and power-struggle.
When love is just how you feel, it’s liable to change if you get drunk, get ill or don’t get enough sleep – I’m after something a bit more substantial these days.
yoghurt,
Oh, your comment made me giggle. I don’t have a baby but I do have a dog. I love her, yes, but sometimes she’s an awful burden and I think how I won’t get another for awhile or ever!
But I take her out at night and bathe her and get her groomed and her teeth cleaned, etc. And it’s wonderful to have her freckled nose on my neck when she’s cuddling and it’s just divine to hear her snoring all squeaky like with intermittent whimpers. (I know she’s dreaming which is weird.)
It takes more than these warm fuzzy feelings to give her the care she needs. It takes commitment and responsibility.
Care is not easy, but the alternative sucks.
I heard a joke the other day that might make us all look at the funny side of our situations…..
I said to my mate “If the bit before sex is called foreplay, what do you call the bit after sex?”
“Running” he said.
Isn’t THAT the truth! Lol
Wow. Again, another post that hits the nail on the head!
What was I thinking? For some reason I must have been feeling SUPER UBER lonely and invited back into my life the true FWB AC that I flushed. WHY??? Why did I do this? Because he texted me through those months when I was NC and swore I was “the love of his life” and his “soul mate”.
So I invited him back in my life and back in my bed. Again, WTF was I thinking? I had gone almost 2 years without seeing him and more than 6 months not talking to him.
So you can guess what happened. We said “I love you” and made plans for our relationship… then two weeks later he stopped calling after a particularly good round in the sack and stood me up for lunch. When I said, “this doesn’t work for me” he said, “yes babe, you deserve more”
Ugh. He got his shag and got scared to pieces by “the love of his life” and “soul mate”.
FLUSH. Lesson learned. Thank goodness for Natalie!!!
Revolution,
yes and that is not even quarter of my marriage adventures with him. Natalie’s article and other comments make me realize that he did what he did because that’s him, I didn’t make him.
About “That dude needs a check-up from the neck up.” Well he was quick to suggest i’ve got mental illness,so were his other exes. When he watches crime shows he goes “jees..how can a man treat a woman like that.”
Amanda,
“It’s because I am inherently trustworthy, I give you no cause for suspicion.” Lol at “how can you argue with that? “. Exactly! And do you remember it all making sense and motivate you to do things that didn’t pressure them to doubt your fidelity? I did. Sounds like your ex is a step bro of mine. Good on you to have left him as I do know how hard it is. Sorry about falling into more ACs as a result of the smothering AC effects in you. That’s how I flew and landed in BR. Natalie, I haven’t been here long but if I came to BR before marriage I would have flushed the AC on the second email.
Christine,
That guy is paragraph one of Natalie’s article save for the sex bit. His behavior is hurtful and disrespectful and it is appalling that he is blaming you. Hugs to you. He does not deserve your friendship. Don’t stick around hoping he’ll change, he has already told you that he “would make a bad boyfriend due turmoil in his life. ” Do you have time for that? He has warned you.
In reference to Natalie’s past articles about assclowns, he sounds the type that blows hot and cold, and even if you ended up in a relationship with him he will stay so. As much as it hurts, remember you have dodged a mindfuckery bullet.
You did not pressure him into anything, everything was consensual, you did not drag him forcefully under that blanket or force him to enjoy the make out session. By the way,Even if you had sex with him, so what? Don’t even get defensive about it, it’s infuriating to be put in that position. Please go NC, the veterans here will testify the benefits. Stay strong and stick with BR.
Thank you, (and to everyone else who has given me such good guidance).
Clearly he is immature and has issues! It’s a bad sign when a 23-year old thinks a 30-year old is acting like a high schooler.
I can do better! He’s not even that great of an artist, either. He’s better than me in some ways currently, but soon I will surpass him…
I’ll remain coldly polite when I see him, because no way am I letting him scare me away from continuing to go to the art group. But he is not my friend, and he is off my Facebook and out of my phone!
thanks and much <3, all.
Lilia,
The guy is not gynaecologist, lol @ finding condom inside the vagina!..or probably finding a piece of cock from other men! He is a business man. He would be checking to see if I slept with other men, and the verdict would always be guilty because “there is no way you will be wet if yo haven’t slept with other men.” I pressured him that much.
Argh! Am having some anxiety this week and I’m hoping that I can get some real grounding advice regarding my current situation. I am almost about to send the guy an email as I’m feeling so anxious and really impatient. It’s been like this since Monday I’ve kept it Sctum so far by controlling myself but I’m going to crack…
So I’ve been seeing a guy for about 7 weeks. Been going fine, getting to know each other no flags so far, accept that since we got closer he stays at my house and i jokingly said when am I coming to yours? Then he was like oh I need to clean my house….I didn’t think it was an issue. Then I mentioned it again and he said the same thing. This weekend I mentioned a gig and he said he’s broke so he can’t go out.i suggested he come with me to a BBQ and then we could hang at his. He said let’s see what happens… My reply was that ill probably end up going out with a mate. Then he said he needs two days to clean his house and that he’ll let me know. I made it clear that If he’s not up for this suggestion then he’ll e seeing me another time. Also we had a chat on Monday were I Sai I want kids and he sounded unsure. I actually can’t relate to people over a certain age who are unsure about children ( making it clear that I am not about to get pregnant just need to know his feelings about it). Anyway I feel like I need to have a chat with about our next steps in terms of the same wavelength and what he wants….
Bad idea? Wait till I see him?
NK
You haven’t done anything wrong but I think it would be unwise to email him. The ball is in his court.
I’d let it be until he gets in contact with you.
Nk, sounds like he is married. Sorry. If you know for sure that he isn’t then it is still red flag behaviour. “let’s see what happens?” I would show him my arse and walk. He is treating like you are an option.
NK,
I agree with the married bit.
Have you met any of his friends?
Two days to clean his flat? And the “let’s see what happens” – that would make me anxious, too. I like to know where I stand. He is being wishy washy about plans for the weekend so maybe you should just make your own plans with your mates and let him have a nice weekend cleaning and missing you:p
NK, it sounds like this dude is lying to you, and you know it, and that’s why you want to call him, and find out what the deal is.
I wouldn’t call him because even if he doesn’t turn out to be a LIAR, or, a lying cheat with a girlfriend or wife, he’s a broke dude that you have only known for seven weeks, who doesn’t want to take you to his house because it’s so dirty that he needs two days to clean it up, who wants you to go with the flow (let’s see what happens=let’s go with the flow).
Personally, I would have lost interest when he said “I can’t go out because I’m broke.” Er, ok, end of. Neither one of those appeal to me: 1. I can’t go out. 2. I’m broke.
Keep listening to your gut; I sense that you are watching your own back, and that’s good. And have fun with your mates. 🙂
I would like to add:
Lives like a pig – unless that is his cover for living with someone else.
NK, why would you want to settle for some dude that is broke? Do you want to support him?
Ladies, we can do much better for ourselves!
Allison – I don’t see it that way.
He hasn’t been ‘broke’ until now, but myself included know plenty of people who stay in and don’t go out just before pay day….thats different to being broke all the time. You may be more more orientated than me I think.
MaryW,
You did not pressure him. He arranged date 5 then Cancelled it twice. You had all the rights to express how you felt. And if that alone is a cause for him to dump you, code amber alert. Try to find comfort in the fact that at least he didn’t use you for sex and also he was honest. He even warned you of “worse dissapointments”.
Today is the two year anniversary of the day that at-work AC, after pursuing me for two years, humiliated me in front of a fellow colleague by showing up with another woman (our former supervisor) at an event we were attending together. This was after he had invited me to spend a weekend with him in the city touring the museums THAT VERY MORNING. Still, I cannot fathom doing such a thing to another. He overlapped this woman with another, a former friend and colleague also whom I now avoid. Looking back, I see the red flags, the few times he see pressured but it was really the effect of juggling multiple women who live far apart. I have a ritual I go through, putting down tobacco, asking the creator for guidance, burning a paper with his name on it, symbolically taking back the town where this happened (was one of my favorite summer escape towns), and promising NEVER AGAIN. I am so grateful for what I have learned from BR and all of you. I have learned about narcs, how healing from them is unlike healing from any of the other a$$es that plague our lives, that it is not me, that poor behavior is so much more common than when I was dating before my marriage, that sadly, good looking smart men even in broken towns while women with the same attributes do not. I have done a lot of personal work over the past two years, learned to use power tools, work on my house and farm solo because his promises of help were so much rubbish, I have tried to have a supportive circle of female friends, have dumped toxic friends, had my home and assets valued, studied the job market so I would know what my realistic options are. ln attempts to date since then, I have done so with Spidey senses fully functioning and have taken great care to never string along, lie to, nor use another in any way. My future may well be grim and alone but at least I am operating withaawareness, kindness, and dignity. Thank you BR.
Blasted phone, does not work well with BRs format. Was sposed to say “good looking smart men, even in broken towns, have options whereas women with similar attributes do not”.
NK– It’s been 7 weeks. What’s ur rush? Seriously. He might be tentative because you’re putting on the full court press. He isn’t the only person in ur world is he? And don’t keep inviting him to everything/ everywhere. Go hang with ur friends n relax. And take some time to figure out where this anxiety is coming from… what do u do (besides date him)? Been out with yourself lately? I highly recommend it!
2fearce – I have been doing my own thing trust me on that. He’s actually been coming to things I’ve previously arranged. We have been out on dates that we area he’s to so I mot defo have not been only hanging with him and I have not put my life on hold to hang with him either. I invited him in Saturday because If he’s broke before payday then I’m not holdin that against him we’ve all been there. I’m now over my anxiety and I know it’s a lot of thins that caused me to get so anxious. At te wn of the day I have a feeling he’s not being totally upfront but I so i dont think he’s Marieed. He could have a secret girlfriend but he’s spent the last 7 weekends coming to events or hanging out with me with things that I normally do accept for three occasions where we have been on dates midweek. I think he’s picked up in my anxiety and that yes probably not ready for me to see his house as he’s been comfortable with how it’s been so far. His house could be really messy, which is stupid because I don’t care. If he is lying the. Oh well another one bites the dust I won’t be using this experience to put myself down been there done that….
I know that I am guilty of letting him I to my life quickly though.. But at least I have NOT put anything in hold for him and that is a step forward as I have done in the past. I spoke to my counsellor earlier and felt much better afterwards. I also had a drink with a gut who is a mate who tried it on me whom I fancy a little bit but know he is not looking for anything more. It was useful as he is in my industry so needed the gossip and info. He tried to kisse and I said look I’m not on this and feel proud of doing so as it could of been me trying to make myself feel tether if I did. I have been in a pattern of 6 weeks up and 1 week crashing down which was this week but at least I recognise that and can recycler without feeling depreased like I used to. I feel like I’m finally getting used to really feeling my feelings and getting uncomfortable. Thank you guys sound for your views. When I here from him I shall state what I need and if he can’t give it hen bye
Don you’re full of it & Christine Hell to the N.O!
The auto corrects on that are terrible it’s such a long message I hope you can understand it. Btw I’m not in a rush I just don’t understand why going to his house is avid deal? I invited him to a BBQ and suggested going to his afterwards to chill that’s nice of me and yes it’s my time I won’t get back. He can say no I have no problem with that I have other freinds to see or I can chill at home with a good book! That’s it
And yes I’ve meet two of his freinds
2fearce,
I understand your pain when it comes to attachement with ex’s children. I still miss my step daughters. It hurts when they are used as a pawn, but my experience is that,as hard as it is, at some stage you need to force yourself to accept the reality of the crazy situation, and that they are not your children, and let go. She’s using your love to them to manipulate you, sad.
I had two stepdaughters. My ex husband used to have 50% access arrangement with his exwife. I loved them, they grew close to me and I proteced them against their dad’s violence. He made it clear that if we are over I’ll never see them. He kept his word. Last time I heard, they were in foster care and he was being charged for assaulting one of them.
Revolution,
I can’t stop laughing about the image of a dumpef AC chasing after the car screaming “I feel so pressured, STOP SMOTHERING ME!!”. Haha!It sounds like a clip in a movie.
One of the ACs I met after my divorce, was arrogant and passive aggrresive. I left him after he back tracked in his future faking. Now and then he’d go “..I felt too much pressure that’s why I left, I miss you but I think I’ll have to move on with my life. Although I can still see the future with you blabla.”
It started with a big bang. First time he started talking how he can see a future between us and and our lovely boys (we met through our boys, they are friends at kinder). Second time me and my boy were invited to his home for bbq with his dad. He made plans that stretched 12 months down the load. Fast forward 2 months, me still hesitating and he didn’t give up the chase. By end of 3rd months I let my guard down. He started disappearing, hot and cold games.
When I started a discussion about the future plans he had mentioned, I got the answer “I’m one foot fancy free kind of guy. This as far as I go, I am not forcing you to stay.” That was after another underwhelming sex session (spills). I left, after 3 weeks of non communication he reappears with brand new plans, and passive aggressively claimed that I misunderstood what he said. By the we had just woken up and blabla.
Er…we got back together, him was colder than before, and after 2 bootcall sessions, I dumped him by text, telling him what I think he is doing and that I don’t wanna talk about it because I know what he’ll say. Already 6 months, I’ve stood my ground.
He is still trying. And now I’m BR smart, he can chase my car and go “I FEEL SO PRESSURED STOP SMOTHERING MEEE!”. Hilarious!
Afro,
Glad I could make you smile. You deserve to after having to endure the lowlifes you’re describing.
Incidentally, whenever I read your moniker, I picture you having a big, beautiful afro. One of my closest friends has the most beautiful afro on earth and everytime I’m with her, I can’t keep my hands off of it (erm, we’re friends. And heterosexual. But what can I do? The afro beckons…It’s just so freakin’ COOL. And I’m from Italian/Middle-Eastern descent, so I have curly hair, but no hope of forming a beautiful ‘fro like hers…so I must remain but a jealous onlooker). 🙂
Girl, and as for the dudes you’re describing (the ones who are so frought with you “pressurizing” them to death)…I can already tell that you can do SOOOOOOOO much better!!!
AfroK that guy is a class A f*cking ASSHOLE. Totally abusive. I felt very angry on hearing you’d been subjected to such a thing. The lows these puss sucking gutter slugs will stoop to know no bounds. I hope you are staying well clear for good & have appropriate IRL support. Hugs. T.
Gold star Noquay. Love yr work! Inspiring! T 🙂
FWIW I don’t see Tink’s suggestion to Christine as advocating passive aggressive behaviour. I see it more as consequencial responding. ie If a guy doesn’t phone/follow through with plans when he said he would, the other party is fully entitled to go on with doing their own thing. If/when the matter arises in conversation, Tink clearly says to address it then. I have done this. Flushing by myself soon followed..lol
Teachable,
Thanks for your support. I’m seeking help to undo the damage he’s caused. And I’m sticking around BR, I couldn’t find it at the best time. People here are so supportive and it makes a big difference when the support comes from people who have undergone similar experiences.
I spoke to him today and he said that he wants to meet in person soon as he needs to explain a few things to me. I kinda expected this from him as sated above. What a mess that commen was lol sounds like its dead In the water at this point, but obviously I shall assess when I find out more. I stated what I need from him so it is clear. He said that he felt bad that he made me anxious. I said that its my feelings and actually I’m glad I did feel anxious it was my gut talking to me. Telling me that I need to realise whats right in front of me. I’ve tried to avoid feeling these real feelings before or felt bad about myself when I did but I didn’t this week and that’s a step forward.
NK, weren’t you going to give dating, sex and relationships a break for a year, or have I remembered that incorrectly?
Yes I was and I changed my mind – that just made things harder. I think that if I let myself be out there then I will learn after each experience.
Oh good, I was right – I wondered if that would be a completely off-the-wall comment to someone who responded ‘Eh?’ 🙂
How did it make things harder?
If by ‘harder’ you mean that your fears seemed bigger and you were more aware of various issues while you were single then that might not have been a bad thing, although obviously unpleasant and difficult.
As far as I can see (and I’m projecting and guessing a bit here, so will cheerfully retract if I’ve got the wrong end of the stick!), you will have to feel all those icky coming-to-the-surface emotions sooner or later, if things like this dude are pushing them out of your mind then it’s just a delaying tactic and might exacerbate the problem.
It’s up to you, of course (your life etc!) but I know that you’ve really been through the mill in recent years and having to deal with some strangely messy bloke while you’re still getting your head round things isn’t going to speed up the process of healing.
Hope I’m not out of line with this, I really don’t want to jump down your throat! Only you’ve done so well, doesn’t seem worth halting progress for the anxiety of a big bag of woodle like this dude.
You could be right, but saying I was off guys for a year just felt like an extreme. I don’t think I used this guy to distract myself, I’ve been doing my thing so much and he’s come out with me to.
Teachable. Thank you so much for the support. Actually it was ColorOrange whose story was about not calling when he said he would. Like you, I don’t see how, not verbally addressing him, but simply not being available for his call is being passive aggressive, either. When that comment was made (no name mentioned) I said to myself, “What? Where did that come from? What gets me is sometimes people inject psychobabble into a situation that is as simple as ABC and does not require all that. Does it sound more intelligent? I don’t think so.
Christine’s story I will not even bother to comment further on.
Thanks again, Hon and please take care of yourself. Love ya, Tink.
Tink,
again, I still follow you on the simplicity of the situation of the ‘calling on time they said they would’ but I don’t agree with how you have such an idea you can adress this situation like you’re the one experiencing it and then calling it simple as ABC and ‘others putting in psychobabble’. If Colororange doesn’t feel 100% ok with it, it means it’s a flag for her. And I agree with that too. I think I also read in her comment it wasn’t a one time thing but he seems to be stretching the time more and more and be less and less punctual about it. If that isn’t a red (or amber) flag than I don’t know what is! I agree about not being available for his calls, but at that stage I myself, wouldn’t be available for him on many other fronts aswel. So: relationship material? Don’t think so!
It’s one thing to give your own vision of things and how you feel about them, it’s another to asume you know the full story and then commenting as if you know what’s going on with clearer view. These comments are only snippets of what happened, please don’t go fantasizing as if you know all the rest and then go judging. The way you put down Christine with her story, putting her in a category after only one comment and a very innocent pass of her throwing a little kiss to a guy with obviously huge consequences, and here you are saying ‘you won’t even bother commenting further’ frankly, it’s just not nice ànd yes: passive agressive, because you don’t even say it to her but to Teachable. That’s not pretty.
We are here to support one another, not tearing somebody down on every little detail and assuming to know things others don’t. Greater pictures!
vhs, Tinkerbell and anyone else who is involved or who is choosing to get involved in this situation which looks like it could run and run and run at this rate – in the interests of returning my blog and the comments to being on topic and within guidelines, I would like to see an end to what has started out being an over the line comment to different people rounding in. I get it… but this isn’t a forum and while I love the fact that the comments are a largely supportive and collaborative atmosphere that tends to self-moderate, the number of incidences of people chastising other commenters for what they see as ‘violations’ has shot up over the past few days. Enough.
I totally get why the original comment caused issue but the point has been made loud and clear that the original comment was an issue, so there is no need for anyone else to pipe up about it. If anyone has anything further to say, it needs to be on topic with the subject of the post or it will not be posted. If you are in doubt as to what that means, please familiarise yourself with site guidelines and the FAQ on comments. I don’t like having to feel like I’m on patrol, especially at the weekend, but if anyone is going to be the ‘comment police’ here, that role falls to me and no one else.
Please respect the boundaries of the site and also each other’s boundaries. I’m all for a debate (on topic) but cliques and taking pot shots at one another make other readers very uncomfortable.
Christine – you don’t need to explain yourself any further. I’ve no idea why Tinkerbell persists in being so unreasonable about it; but it’s not that important. What *is* important (well, what I would take away from the scenario) is just a clear understanding that for whatever reason this man does not have your best interests at heart.
Look after yourself and be unapologetic about it!
Thanks for setting me straight Tink. My cognition is impaired atm, & I find it diff 2 concentrate / follow things correctly. I got it though re color O not Christine. My mistake. Sorry. I agree with you on tht & also think the written word can sometimes be misunderstood/misconstrued due to lack of emotion / tone / non verbal communication cues that typically accompany the spoken word. I also try to pick my battles. Otherwise, showing what is acceptable & not acceptable to me by how I respond (or not) is OK in my book. Moreover, ya’ll know I’m not shy re confronting things verbally so I’m far from passive aggressive! LOL
AfroK I’m glad u’ve got real life support on board & feel that BR helps too. When I hear stuff like that here & add it to the many dozens of similar cases I used to deal with at work, my blood boils. I have absolutely zero tolerance for all forms of VAW (violence against women) & sexual abuse such you desribe is particularly hienious. Gentle hugs to you. T x
Natalie,
I’m with you in mentioning said man who just wants sex but plays like he wants a relationship. I don’t know what it is with men who go about duping women. (Though I do believe 99% of the time the signs are there no matter how smooth the men think they are).
There are women out there who just want sex and nothing more too. Perhaps men associate these women as being of a certain undesirable type which is crazy.
If I am being totally honest all I truly desired from the ex was a few months of cuddles and sex and then for us to go our separate paths. I sure did get me some good cuddles and kisses but I couldn’t go through with the sex part. I fell in love with him, as much as I was capable of at that time anyway. I wish I could say, yeah I just couldn’t go through with using him and leaving that way. And maybe that was a part of it, but mostly I couldn’t allow myself to be used that way. And neither of us were really being honest about our agendas and had we the connection most likely would have faded fast.
I am a woman who wants sex from any decently attractive like-aged man or perhaps womam, as I am not available or ready for a relationship of any kind yet. Talk about throwing a caveat in the dating realm. But when I throw logic and reason into the mix of desires it reads as this: I truly desire and want a romantic relationship with depth and intimacy with a man. I would love to have an authentic female friendship based on care. I value monogamy and my body. I live in a city with one of the highest std ratings in the nation. So when I look at it through the reality lense casual sex is pretty risky and diverts the attention from my main goal.
I have strong sexual desires and yes some bisexual. But I don’t act on them, simply because I don’t have to. In fact I haven’t had sex in six years. Yes, I am a sexual being but I refuse to put myself and others at risk or to use people so that I get my jollies.
I fear when I start dating that I’ll allow someone to pressure me into sex before I’m ready or to do things I’m not comfortable with. I think this is a big reason I avoid sex so much, because I don’t trust other people or myself with other people. That is why for me it’s sooooo important to know who you sleep with. There are people out there that will have hundreds of sexual partners besides their spouse or main partner and expose themselves and said devoted partner to every std known to man and not blink an eye.
We must truly get to know a person as much as we can before jumping into bed with them and expecting a relationship with a good hearted individual to unfold. If we go into things with such gross naivety we will undoubtably run the risk of waking up to a monster and realizing we have wasted our precious souls and bodies on those unworthy.
Random one, are you a londoner?
I am and read recently that London has most in this country. That’s why i wondered.
And i hear you totally on
>> I truly desire and want a romantic relationship with depth and intimacy with a man. I would love to have an authentic female friendship based on care. I value monogamy and my body.<<<
Revolution,
You sure made me smile, and the reference is in vocabulary now! Funny and so true, just like Natalie delivers her stuff. I wish many counselors used her approach, instead of preaching the hell out of university notes. My “..fancy free” AC is the typical that would give a “blank face and claim forgetfulness” after getting lad just like in Natalie’s article. He actually sent a text two days ago “Hi, been thinking of you today. You have definitely moved on through lack of contact. But I just hope you and S (my son) are ok. Do you want to catch up soon? I just thought “chase my car…” and didn’t reply. Oh..love BR.
I should say you got wild imagination going girl, coz I do some cool Afros, though at the moment I have short bob African thread locks. My hair type is more like “The No.1 Ladies’ Detective Agency” lady! So imagine black frizzy hair shooting up in the air and just like you my friends can’t keep their hands off it, so i have to carry the comb around. I’ve got middle Eastern friends at work so I do imagine your beautiful long curly bouncy locks! You and your hands sounds like me and my close friend who we’d fuss about each other’s hair and everything in public then walk holding hands and joke that we are a “multicultural couple”!
Ah, the infamous “pressure”. You described my situation perfectly– I met someone online, chatted for weeks and even got so comfortable that we sexted… We went on one date, continued chatting… But in two months of messages and texts I only met this person once in real life. We talked so much that it almost felt that he was already my boyfriend- but once I started pushing for more REAL, in person interaction, he said I was pressuring him. He was recently divorced. This guy was a big ol’ mountain of red flags and I just clicked with him so well that I chose to ignore them all. Needless to say we aren’t together now. For a lot of men, “You’re pressuring me” just means “I had no intentions of ever dating you in the first place”.
I’ve felt pressured talking to one of my exes, well they were not an ex at the time, because they kept going on to my Facebook and everything I posted within less than 5 minutes became the topic of conversation. That felt pressurised because they could have just asked on Facebook instead they asked on BBM Instant Messenger… FLUSH!!
I felt pressured by another because they wanted something that I wasn’t comfortable to give yet. Not because I didn’t want to but because I wanted to take my time. Nothing wrong in being cautious and slowing it down. Told them I felt pressured and apparently I was doing it to myself. 3 shags, chopper behavior and just out and out disrespectful behavior… FLUSH!!
My recent ex and his fast forwarding, we had only been back together for a while, started talking about getting married, wanting to be supported and the whole shizz nit! I agree… it’s mutual and I have no objections. The next day I mention the same thing he said the day before and apparently ‘I’m starting drama’… ‘drama?!’… ‘oh nothing, nothing’. Makes me look like a fool despite him being the one to mention it in the first place. He pressurised himself with his own actions and according to him by the end of the break up… it’s all my fault and he didn’t want my support anyway and he didn’t want to get married because I decided to let things cool off for a few days and revisit the situation at a later date. Because apparently I don’t change. Er… CRAZY MAKING… FLUSH!!