New here? Subscribe to my RSS feed or via email. Or follow viaFacebook or Twitter. Also check out my ebooks - The No Contact Ruleand Mr Unavailable & The Fallback Girl.
I was reading one of the first posts that appeared on Baggage Reclaim back in September 2005 about great expectations and I saw a quote I used from my ex fiance that highlighted the vast, cavenous difference between us:
““How can you say that I treated you badly? It’s not as if you caught me in bed with another woman or I use to beat you up?—
This reminds me of another post I wrote a little while back about getting into the heads of Mr Unavailable’s and assclowns where I quoted a bewildered guy accused of using various women to bail on rent and bills as saying “If I was really that bad, sure they wouldn’t be with me!”
This demonstrates the blinkered thinking that prevents these people from not only seeing the bigger picture but the reality of themselves.
Does that mean that if my ex fiance had lied to me (actually he did) and stolen from me that I would have had to turn a blind eye? And actually, the key word in his statement was ‘caught’ because it didn’t mean that he hadn’t actually been playing around! Mind games!
These quotes go to show how people rationalise their behaviour:
By comparing it to something they perceive as what you should consider being treated badly and deciding that whatever they have done is not all that bad.
By seeing if they are losing out somewhere and experiencing consequences.
With the former, my ex and anyone else who chooses to behave in this way, distances themselves from their actual actions and attempts to silence you in some sort of warped ‘glass is half full’ bullsh*t. With no real understanding of the impact of their behaviour and a lack of empathy that fuels the disconnection, they determine that because in their mind, people who do bad things do X,Y,Z, their behaviour isn’t really bad because it’s not in their little rule book.
With the latter, they experience no real negative consequences and in their mind, when people are behaving in an unacceptable manner and are doing ‘bad things’, they don’t get laid, they don’t get people trying to be with them, and they don’t continue to keep landing on their feet…that is unless you have women willing to turn a blind eye to these things in the name of ‘love’.
But it got me thinking, especially when reading through comments, what type of ridiculous hokey cokey bullsh*t has been said to you as their way of abdicating themselves of any responsibility for their actions, for the relationship, or how you may be feeling on the receiving end?
Share your examples and I (and no doubt readers) will decipher them.
Your thoughts?
My ebook, Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl is my guide to understanding the dynamic between emotionally unavailable men and the women that love them and is available to buy and download.
For personal advice or analysis of your relationship/situation, check out my consultation service. Don’t forget, you can now use the forum and social network to chat with other readers. Follow Baggage Reclaim on Twitter too.
{ 90 comments… read them below or add one }
Great post!
I think the one that really sticks out in my mind is “Do you have any idea how much knowing I’ve hurt you causes me MASSIVE pain?”
Which was followed by a litany of all the things that upset him (me making him jealous, when I had in fact bent over backwards to try and not make him jealous – such as cutting off platonic friendships with male friends, much to my own dismay and sadness).
Then, ten minutes on the heels of that email, there were angry questions about the last person I had ever slept with.
Then… ten minutes later, there was one more email in which he accused me of doing things ON PURPOSE to make him jealous, get attention, keep control over him (again, totally untrue), which ended with him telling me, “So f*** off!”
I was dumbfounded! This, all from someone who wanted to marry me, create a life together, combine our households and do a “great job of loving me.”
That same statement above about hurting me was also why he couldn’t talk to me most nights anymore at the end, because he was crying, upset and all mixed up. He kept backing out, saying he needed to step back. Then he’d tell me how wrecked he was and about how much he loved me. Did we EVER talk about how his behavior was affecting ME? No! There was never any space left with all his drama (and I also didn’t make any). It was maddening and I think he’s got some real problems.
But I’ve also realized through this whole rollercoaster that I’m definitely EU myself, with terrible boundaries, so I’m working on that. And trying very hard to maintain NC.
It was a case of The Return of the Childhood Sweetheart and I blindly walked into a really bad situation, but luckily, got myself out fairly quickly.
I found out my ex EUM was cheating on me because the woman he was cheating with started calling and harrassing me. She would throw stuff on my car, etc…I confronted him and he denied, denied, denied (of course). I broke it off with him and told him to move out. During this time, he would try to fix things but everytime he would come over to get his things and talk, the woman would be calling and calling, harrassing and would literally be parked oustide our house like a psycho! I guess she was paranoid about us getting back together….. so I argued this point with him and he proceeds to tell me, “but babe, I’m not with her now out of respect for you! I wouldn’t do that to you!” I was like are you f#$%& kidding me with this?? Out of respect for me? How about not being with her WHILE you were with me assclown!!! I cut off all contact completely…..good riddance!
“There was this one time – i spent all day outside cutting the grass, and then went to a soccer game with friends. She called screaming that i wasn’t “there for her” and payed no mind to her all day long, everyone tells me i did too much, i tried too hard. She’s fuck**”
My response – (after hearing poor pathetic me whining and playing push/pull for 3 yrs – I need you! Get Away!! Wait come back!! No! I told you NO i DON”T WANT A RELATIONSHIP! I Treasure you and our friendship please see me!!!)
“I don’t believe one fuc**** word that comes out of your mouth (enter his name here). You are a completely deluded, pathetic, depressed loser with nothing to offer, you jerk off and cry yourself to sleep everynight bacause deep in your soul you know you’re a worthless useless bum, and i faked every orgasm”
“(my name here) You must be on your rag,. I’m buying you this dinner, you should be a little nice to me” (smiles at me). I never ever cheated on my wife. continues to eat his steak. It sounds like to me, you have been cheated on in the past. You seem a little guarded”
****Natalie and Ladies – You have to know that everything you just read were words I TEXT messaged to him HOURS before – and he PERSISTED to take me out for dinner….
NML – If this isn’t someone completely off their rocker than i don’t know what is. yes – it was completely idiotic of me to agree to see him, but … well… hell… i’m here reading your posts, so there’s no need to explain why i went.
I’m 26 years old… he’s 37. Thank the Lord that i found this site.
Wow, my list could go on and on … He used the same line your ex used, NML : ““How can you say that I treated you badly? It’s not as if you caught me in bed with another woman or I use to beat you up?â€â€
One time I got brave and told him that he was being verbally abusive and he told me that was “laughable” and that if he were, then I wouldnt want to speak to him again.
He told me that he didnt want his family to meet me – not because he was ashamed of me or that he was being mean – but because they would probably “like” me and that wouldnt be a good reflection on him … and he laughed.
Another time I got upset that he stood me up to go out with his sister and wouldnt invite me to go along – he got mad at me! I asked, where are you going? and he said “I’m not going to tell you because … you might show up.” … more laughter on his part.
Everything he said was said like a joke – that is how he justified the cruelest things he could ever say – it was funny, it was a joke – cant you have any fun?
When I think back to the situations where my exEUM said the most ridiculous things to justify his behavior, and how often I bought into them well… it’s just plain embarrassing. Now, after many months I can say WTF was wrong with me?
But there were a lot of things which were wrong and anyone who has been to this site knows, we have our own issues. But, each time I let him think I bought the excuse or ridiculous statement, was another step down in self-esteem for me. I didn’t see it then, but I clearly can see it now.
Statements like “Yeah, I know I’m selfish, but so are all my friends.” or “Are we supposed to have communication every few hours or you’ll be upset and mad at me?”
If I had one wish for the holidays it would be that we all love ourselves enough to know when to get out. When to stop trying harder. To listen to our gut, and to see the red flags. To just take good care of ourselves so that we can minimize the pain and exit a relationship with Mr Unavailable. To feel good that we made the right choice and we put our own needs above theirs.
Update on my previous post: I haven’t had ANY contact w/my ex for a month and made it very clear to him AND her that I didn’t want or care to know anything about them…..she called me several times yesterday (I didn’t answer)…….OK, so WHY is she still calling me….Ladies, help me out here……
Everything the EUM said and did that I wasted time on was a lie. I found out from his brother’s wife what had been going on with EUM for the last 4 years of his life (before he looked me up again professing undying love, devotion, and “I want a relationship” crap). When his brother’s wife filled in all the questions I had about certain situations in our current so called “relationship”, I put the NO CONTACT into motion. The messages he left after this, “I have bent over backwards for you. I have gone out of my way to do right by you. I heard you said I was with some other B**** you just get these crazy thoughts in your head so f*** you!”. A week after NO
CONTACT, he called and left this on my cell phone, “I wish you would unblock your home phone I miss talking to you.” Then there was a pause and in a sad voice he said, “well I guess you don’t want to talk to me”. That was nearly 3 weeks ago. and I have heard nothing since.The sister in law told me he had been with a girl for 4 years who got incarcerated “about the time he started calling me”. I did confront him about this girl and he denied it. I was also told he loved me “but not in that way”. I actually began to wonder if the sister in law was doing me a favor or really on the girlfriend’s side. I initiated the NO CONTACT, although I questioned the sister in laws motivation. This was mine and EMU’s second encounter. First time was 18 years ago when I spent a miserable 4 years with him, and thought I was over him, and thought I was smarter. Obviously I learned nothing, and ashame I fell for it again.
I cant remember anything my ex said about that,but I always had the felling that he didnt get how bad he was treating me.Even though he was being indiferent and not puting much efort most of the time.But I think to him that doesnt qualify as “bad treatment”.
The last Mr. Unavailable I dated (I finally have admitted that he is a Mr. Unavailable, I wasn’t “sure”) was a decent enough guy, but he was definitely unavailable. His unavailability was with his time, he was always on the go, his life is filled with the activity fitting of a 23 year old boy, not a 39 year old man. He is definitely a free spirit. I don’t really think there is anything wrong with that, but let’s just say he’s not a good candidate for a serious, committed and long term relationship.
Our breaking point came after a 5 week separation due to our vacation schedules (we were three hours away NY – Washington D.C. as it was), which turned out to really be 8 weeks because he was not straight with me about the length we’d be apart and whether or not he’d be including me in some of his activities (a university tailgate/football game and a camping trip – both things I in which I would happily partake – ok – the camping maybe not so much).
His great lines included: “Well you decided to spend two weekends away from me in Europe!” – Never mind that on one of our phone conversations while I was in Europe I offered to fly home a weekend early to see him because I missed him and knew we’d be apart for a few more weeks (little did I know more than I was thinking….). He said that I should stay and enjoy the rest of my vacation, and I did. I’m glad I didn’t cut my vacation short for him, I would have been making all the sacrifices.
THEN, a week after we broke up, he said he tried to call me, two times, and that both times he got a message from the phone company saying that my “number had been disconnected”. He thought I wanted him out of my life for good because he didn’t receive a mass email from me indicating that I had changed my number.
THEN he told me he was likely moving for work from D.C. to Seattle in January. (D.C. was a 6 month job, prior to that he was working three hours north of me in CT)
During our phone conversation (our only one since we broke up) it seemed to me like we still had feelings for one another, but he did say “he didn’t think he would ever settle down, that he liked doing what he likes to do.” (so at least he’s honest).
However, he did tie his moving to Seattle to his thinking I disconnected my number. He said “But I thought you had disconnected your number.” – I almost felt like he was trying to insinuate that had he gotten through to me things might have been different and he might have not applied for a transfer – something like that.
Which is crazy because:
a) it was a technical glitch, I hadn’t disconnected my number, he could have emailed me or called the next day and he would have seen that. (I know he’s not making this up, there was a day about the time that he says he called that others told me they got that recording).
b) he admitted he likes doing what he likes to do. So if he had gotten through – what would have happened – would we have dated another couple months, me ignoring the opposite. He would have moved to Seattle. He would have not included me in his plans.
Yet – I found his comments – about how it was ME that was unavailable by being on vacation in Europe for two weekends (out of the 8 or 9 we were apart); and it was ME that disconnected my phone (even through I didn’t) – that is the reason we are not together. It’s not HIS emotional unavailability and choosing to live a life that prohibits him from getting too close to anyone, setting down any roots or living an adult lifestyle.
Wow – I thought I didn’t need to post a comment (sometimes it’s theraputic for me) – I was wrong! Sorry for the rant.
Whoops – in “b” above I meant to say “ignoring the obvious” not “ignoring the opposite”
My Ex EUM – ugh… Told me the reason he didn’t tell me that he had a woman roomate move into his house 5 months earlier… that’s right he didn’t mention her – because she had a dog… Um WTF????? weird thing is I LIKE DOGS… A**hole. Then he say’s I didn’t tell you because I knew you wouldn’t like it??? Got that right!
He also said that if he ever cheated he would never admit it – he said it wouldn’t be fair to hurt me just to clear his mind.. How trying to keep it in your F’in pants?????
There are so many more things I could mention but they just make me look stupid for hanging out for it.
I don’t like to hate but I F’n hate him..
Sylol….She’s scared to death he’s back with you. She probably see’s what he’s really like, how could she not after what he’ s done to you but is desperate to hold on. Better to make you out to be the bad guy then the real bad guy, then she’d have to accept what a jerk he is.
I have a male friend and ended our 13yr purely platonic friendship. His girlfriend had been cheated on by her ex and as she told him she couldn’t be with someone who’d be friends with other women. Then I see his true worth when he said to me “We’ll still be friends but I’ll have to get a different phone to use when we talk because she goes thru my calls”. I told him absolutely not, either we’re friends out in the open as usual or we’re not. And if he’s going to 1. Put up with that then good luck with that and 2. I won’t be party to that kind of behavior involving his girlfriend. He tried to justify all of it by saying what she didn’t know wouldn’t hurt her and he didn’t want to lose me as his friend.
I saw him in a WHOLE new light, even friends try to justify their bad behavior not just the ones we sleep with.
This site is fantastic! It has certainly helped me snap out of this relationship insanity. Just before I split up with my ex he said ‘You are lucky, I still fancy you after all these years’ ‘It isn’t like I ever hit you’.
Then my EUM after confronting him about another woman with information I had been told said. Oh… I may have kissed her at a works do…….I’m being as honest as I can be’.. Yes, that speaks volumes.
Finally broke free of this ridiculous relationship. Can’t understand how/why I got in to it or hung around for so long. I don’t usually find it hard to walk away from bad behavior in relationships, but kept going back for more.
Turns out he has about four people at work at his beck and call and he usually sees them in works time as he works a lot of night shifts and gets away with it. He is living with someone too.
Thank you for helping us to drop the illusion and see things as they really are. I
,
I haven’t been on for a while, as your posts put things so right in my head I needed time to get used to “knowing stuff”! But I come back and find a brilliant and informative article, as usual.
I remember with The Player (Mr Unavailable as I called him after reading your stuff) “complaining” rather nicely to him that while I was writing him 10 to 15 long(ish) emails a day, I was only getting 2 or 3 one or two liners in return and that it “didn’t seem very well balanced” and I would like to hear more from and about him.
His response? “…and I detect an underlying current of passive-aggressive behaviour in how you talk to me…”????? Yer Wot? a woman calmly and honestly stating how she sees a situation is “passive-aggressive”? lolol Maybe the others, but not This One. I tend to be EITHER passive OR aggressive, depending on whether or not I’m being treated well or badly!
Ah, the nonsense they come up with to cover their saggy butts! Thank you for these articles that make things all the clearer.
Best Regrds, Leonine.
Hmm…I’d have to say the best I’ve heard is, “I know I acted like an ass but I did it (ignored you for 2 weeks for no apparent reason until you begged me to come back to you) because I love you.” WTF!!?? Ok, needless to say – after 8 months of this weirdness I’m on day 32 of NC. I cant believe how many times in the past I begged, stalked, pleaded, gave him recognition for his fluctuating behavior since he was only being cautious due to our “deep love” he’s never experienced – I’m finally so tired. I’ve never reacted this way in a relationship before. I’m usually over it in about 2 weeks but for some reason I turned into this monster trying to preserve drama with an assclown! Of course he felt the need to disappear numerous times because I was “too good for him” (duh…I know that) but the last straw was a couple days of verbal insults from his moody ass and thats when I just sort of shut off. I have this constant pain in my gut more due to the sudden realization that I was taken for a ride than actual heartbreak. I think Im too angry at this point to feel sorrow for my “loss?” His words..he had so many words. Poems and powerful statements like “I’ve never loved this way before” and he would hold up his hand and say “Your hand belongs in mine forever”. I was soooo taken in I thought I might float away half the time. We made plans..not talk of our future but actual plans. Then once I resolved to cut contact he did too and I havent heard from him since. Go figure.
NML,
How about after flirting with me for 4 years while he had another girlfriend…. telling me he was emotionally, intellectually and physically attracted to me — and grabbing my boobs another time and moaning — and then telling me how hard I made him yet another time and coming in his pants — and that I was “dangerous” and “my eyes were driving him crazy” and ‘the chemistry is so thick it is tangible” —
HE THEN after he breaks up with the girlfriend and is now technically available and we could finally hook up and finally actually HAVE sex instead of just talking — HE DECIDES HE DOESN’T WANT TO BEGIN TO DATE OR HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH ME AFTER ALL,
telling me that “you mis-read me.” and ‘go work for habitat for humanity if you are lonely” and “I was only being friendly”.
Loving Annie´s last blog ..Upcoming Vacations
Well…mine is foreign so everytime I would expect that he would act like a “real” person, he would just do whatever he wanted and then tell me that is why he hesitates to be with me because he really wants a subservient wife that doesn’t ask him questions like where has been and what has he been doing. Then he would tell me that he knows life with me would be giving up to much of his values. He, of course, loves me more than the world…but his religion and his beliefs mean that he can only have me on the side as he likes his life as it is. Finally, I am seeing it all for the bs it is instead of feeling like I am lacking in something…go figure…!
I had MY closure talk last night. I had unanswered questions than I wanted answering, one and a half hours later, I pretty much know it all now. I wasn’t invited out with his friends or to meet his family bcause he never took US seriously. We were supposed to be having a bit of ‘fun’. He said he realized he had killed our 7 year friendship and was ashamed at the way he treated me but if he said a million apologies nothing would change. He is selfish and has a dark side he has to check on every day of his life, he’s learning sooo much about himself. What was interesting is that I at some point in the talk realized he doesn’t actually now what love is, or how it feels. This makes me sad for him. He said every transaction he does has a I scratch your back you scratch mine, that every relationship is conditional. he doesn’t understand that people give out of love for each other!!!!
Umm ok, here’s the thing, I told him, in every relationship there is trust, respect, care and love, and you smashed all of those things, he said, I guess I never loved you.. I said, your actions proved that. His ending sentence, I know I lost you, but you have lost me too. What I wished I had said that I didn’t was.. No, you have lost my trust care respect and love, I have lost nothing because I never had trust care respect or love from you. I just said, I’m sorry you asked to be my friend thats something I cannot give you.
I have put it to rest, now I can heal. I know however he is with doesn’t matter, he has nothing to give, and if thats sick on my part for having some satisfaction in that, so be it, for now it helps me move on.
I have a nice one from my AC, who
- vanished on me for days on end
- poured out his moods all over me
- dumped me several times because I gently brought up issues important to me
- perpetrated lots more assclownery
One day, when I complained, he very woundedly said to me:
‘What are you complaining about? I’m not a violent alcoholic like my father, beating you up or something!’
Now, he is 5′8, a puny, unfit little manboy. I am 5′10, work out at the gym and pretty much tower over him, particularly in heels … I laughed loudly and heartily, being able, as I am, to snap this little sh*t in two.
“What do you mean, abusive?”
“You’re lucky to have me, I don’t drink, or hit you”.
“Other women would love to have a man like me”.
“I’ve never trusted you”.
jordylass´s last blog ..everything is my fault….
“I hate that I’ve hurt you” — assclown
“Just wanted to say ‘hi’ and let you know that I still think of you often” — a text after a year. — assclown
I received this email from my ex (9 years together) in the midst of our breakup. As it was, she (I am a woman too) was having an affair, with one of my best friends, and they had signed a lease together, using money from our joint account: I wouldn’t find out about the affair until a bit later, but, well, when she composed this lovely email, she certainly knew what she was doing.
“Baby, I didn’t ask for a divorce. I’m tired of fighting and feeling like everything I do lets you down. You heard that I wanted to leave you in October and have been treating me accordingly ever since…constantly clawing one’s way out of a hole with no grips is never going to be successful. I don’t know how to make you believe anything anymore and it is ruining me to try. i may have said something that you interpreted as wanting to breakup 8 months ago – but you have working very hard shut me out/beat me down since then. words and actions should match up – and they haven’t.
i have loved you and i do love you – and that was one thing i asked from you in our relationship wasvto believe it – and you haven’t…and I don’t know how to fight that anymore.”
I think the big excuse is “I do this because I love you”
I was in a relationship with a guy who wanted to control everything I wear, what I eat, my friends, etc but I never let him do that and we always got in big fights because of this, his excuse was the same “I ask for this because I love you, if you love me you will do as I tell you” and he only was happy when there was drama or fighting.
What gets me more mad is how other woman justify his behavior, maybe because I live in a Latin American country and our culture is different. A lot of “friends” told me that I should do as he says because he has a lot of money and because we should always do what a man says.
I dont want someone to pay my bills, I pay my bills, I dont want someone to rescue me because I dont need to be rescue. I just want someone to be there for me emotionally and someone who is my bestfriend and lover.
Nele, I think we dated the same man! After I inform him that a man who tells a woman he loves her one minute and bails on her the next minute is an asshole, he says to me, “Well if it makes you feel better so think so, go ahead. People are allowed to change their minds.”
He didn’t get that true love doesn’t flip on and off like a switch, and his version of love, like all the other EUMs and assclowns of the world, is nothing but fantasy, like virtual reality.
He also said in one of our myriad breakups that God was telling him to extricate himself from our relationship, and if he sacrificed ‘us’, then God had something better in store for him! WTF? The man actually had me angry at God! Needless to say shortly after we broke up he turned to Budda and to the village tramp who is his Sugar Mommy.
Thank God for your site NML; it helps women to put all of this BS in perspective and sort out the mindfuckery these types put us through.
“I am just selfish I think”
“if you were smart you would dump me”
“why do you put up with me?”
So, I didnt listen to him telling me who he was in those lines, so then he started these lines:
“you are perfect, and as much as I want to make an emotional investment in you, i cant”.. “something is missing”, “I am not 100%”, “you fast forwarded this relationship”, “maybe its our chemistry”, “when I left for 5 weeks this summer, it wasnt good for us, we were disconnected”,
Then, when I asked “it is me, not the issues, then, that is the problem?”
He went back to “no you are perfect, its not you”
“i am the car but the engine is broken”
etc. etc. etc…
very confusing! I fault myself for not listening to who he was telling me he was. But I fault him for trying to blame me, the summer, the speed of the relationship and whatever else he could.. This is how they operate. Believe a man when he tells you who he really is.
I finished with my EUM in April of this year and for the first time in many years have begun to feel at peace with myself. I was married for 25 years to a classic EUM, and have dated three more since my marriage ended. No more! I have found this site and realised where I’d gone wrong for the last 35 years! Yes, I’m 57 and beginning to understand at last why I have made the awful decisions, and had no boundaries. I am unable to avoid meeting my latest ex EUM, but he made me howl with laughter when he described his new relationship to me…..wait for it ladies…..”It’s nothing to do with me, it’s up to her whether she goes out with me or not” As you have said NML, a ridiculous statement from a man who really doesn’t comprehend the reality of himself, and who lead me a merry dance for two years. Thanks to Baggage Reclaim, he was my Epiphany relationship and now part of my history, and I’m moving into my own future with my eyes open, a wiser head and some very clear boundaries in place.
I am in the first stages of NC with the ex. My (former) best friend is now dating him (thus, how I found your site with the coup de grace article)…
He accused me of being the reason he got a DUI. He accused me of hurting him because I wouldn’t marry him when he asked (while on day 5 of a drunken binge) and just recently said “I really am not the guy for you anyway..but I will always love you.” arrrrrrghhhhhhhhhh
my ex eum emailed me after we broke up wanting to see me again “as friends”. I said “ok, but as friends that means no sexual comments and no touching”
He then said I was denying him his natural male urges and i couldn´t ask that of him. Hahaha, how ridiculous is that.
No need to say I didn´t meet up with him…
While we were together he said some very blunt and rude things. Like that I wouldn´t be a responsible mother (say what?) When I confronted him he said he was just being honest and that I should appreciate that. I was being very negative according to him… meanwhile he was the most negative and cynical person I ever met.
I didn´t stick around long but longer then I should have…
When I called him on his behaviour (via email) he said, “you are trying to say that I am a d**k?” I said, “yes, a little bit.” He replied, “lol…what can I say?”
That says it all–and nothing at all.
what I find interesting is how they just claim that they are selfish but seem to have no ability/desire to control the way they are….its like they are separated from their behaviors. .. wait, they are, arent they?? I guess that is the disconnect. it is totally alien. If any of us believed we were selfish, we would work to change that in a relationship. It is so weird and foreign.
MC – I think we dated the EXACT same guy! I heard the following:
“I don’t want to hurt you”,
“I did and do think of you often. Thank you for your thoughtfulness”
” I just couldn’t give you 100%”
“I was scared to say those 3 little words”
“I’m patient and I can wait for you”
“I can’t live in fantasyland” (suggesting that I didn’t fit in his fantasy of the perfect girl)
“Ever since we talked, I have thought about you daily” (Well, gee wiz! What effort! You must really like me!!)
“Maybe we can just meet up every now and again” (Yes, he was suggested we can hook up periodically. I actually took him back after this!)
Yes, when an assclown gives you hints as to what they can and can’t do for you, LISTEN!
My worse:
He said: “Listen, I was married for 12 years. Of course I’ve learned how to lie.”
Then he looked at me with this crooked weird smile on his face – like “Is she going to let me get away with that?”
I did. Sadly.
All these things were said by my AC in the period of about two weeks.
We need to break up as I’m too in love with you, the last time I felt like this was my ex and she broke my heart
We need to break up at I can only ever care about you80%
We need to break up as you obviously love me more than I love you and it’s not fair on you, I’m so proud of myself of stopping this before I hurt you more
We need to break up because I never really wanted to be a relationship with you, it just was so easy the last eight months have flown by.
I need you in my live can we be friends or carry on having sex and just take everything down a gear?
The thing about me is I’m just selfish and all the reasons you’ve given for loving me aren’t even true
By loving me you’re just trying to make me weak
If things get more serious you’re going to want me to be there for you, ring you when your upset, speak to you everyday and that just seems like hardwork.
You are the best thing in my life, I need you in it you are my best friend.
Cut to two months and endless emails, constant ringing, txts
I don’t want to get back with you,I just want to see you- why can’t you remember the happy times from our relationship? You’re only mad at me because you didn’t get exactly what you wanted but what you fail to understand is that I didn’t either. Then he posted on his website that he was heartbroken and addded a link to a song about a woman whose a Btch
Assclown 1, when I discovered he’d slept over with someone he met at a party:
“I’m selfish when I go out”
Assclown 2, when I discovered he was still in another relationship:
“I’ve been trying to explain without the details”
Neither in my life now, thanks to this site.
Absolutely amazing the similarities in most of these posts. Are men initiated into some kind of secret organization who teaches them this crap or are they just born with these traits? This is the first time I’ve ever had to force myself to utilize NC and its strange…after about a month you start to see things in a new way. I’m very proud of myself. I tweaked out on his horoscope for weeks trying to get a morsel of where his head was at but all I ended up with was that he’s going to win the lottery, marry the woman of his dreams and live happily ever after LOL!! Trust me when I say GOOD RIDDANCE. I didnt have to make an effort to switch the focus from him to me – I was obsessed and in denial for the longest time and I even resolved to make myself the exception to the women on this site claiming that I will do NC but I will secretly love and wait for him to return to me. One morning you WILL come to the realization that you are too good for manipulation and you dont have time for a daily emotional rollercoaster ride. The most difficult transition you will make is figuring out what to do with the time you once wasted on him. I suddenly began thinking of myself and came to terms with fact that I am not living and breathing for some dope who makes me walk on eggshells lest the cease of what little attention he offered. I have no idea when I decided to let some fool wipe his feet on me but thanks to this site I now know why…and I now know that his jaw dropping excuses for doing so are no longer original!
How about this text I got 2 weeks after I left him b/c I found out he was cheating via text messages on his cell phone and chat logs on his facebook….
“I miss u & I can’t believe u gave up on us that easy over something that was a misunderstanding.”
A misunderstanding?? Is that what we’re calling it these days? I don’t think I misunderstood a girl texting him talking about how giddy he was making her and all of the butterflies he was making her feel. And I know I didn’t misunderstand the facebook chat where they discussed a particular kiss and how he was wanting more.
I sent him back “u threw away us the moment u opened the door to someone else.”
His response was “I opened the door for no one.”
I didn’t bother responding to the liar after that. So he again asked me to send him his passport if I should find it and we are back to no contact.
I cannot wait for this nightmare to be over for good!
Sylol,
This is clearly harassment. I would either change your number or report this activity to the police as I believe it is a felony.
I was asking for permission to call him, over that now, convo below:
Me: Hope you don’t mind if I call you.
EUM: If you don’t mind that I don’t answer my phone.
WTF???
I said, youv’e known me for seven years and you don’t know anything about me’..he said ‘ I know you are a people pleaser’.
Uugghh.. I’m so disgusted!
I’m blown away too by how similar these guys are. I totaly agree with AJ, I’m 42 days with NC and it does feel good. I’m still alittle sad that he threw 11yrs away by cheating but that was his choice his decision. He made his and I made mine.
I finally saw them together at a store about a week ago (they didn’t see me) and while I must admit there was a pang of jealousy for about a day but it passed. It would of been easy to text a “Hello” to get a response (I have no doubt I would of gotten one, he’s never passed up an ego stroke in his life) to fight the jealousy but I’m proud to say I worked through those feelings and didn’t. Gold Star for me !!!!
Before this site I would of been a basket case but I turn to it and the wonderful ladies on it for inspiration and support.
@Wandering Ivy I can hear a lot of child but not a lot of sweetheart going on here. The thing is, it wasn’t causing him massive pain because he took it upon himself to cause you more. Personally, I don’t think he sounds like the full shilling. He’s far too switchy for my tastes.
You are absolutely right – we all have our enough moment and I’m glad you’ve had yours. Better to have gone through that than to continued on regardless. These men end up teaching us what we need to heal in ourselves.
@Sylol Mr Unavailable’s and assclowns, despite what they protest, have a penchant for drama. It gives them license to believe they are justified in what they are doing by blaming the drama on you. As a result, if you’ve been involved with him and not run a mile, it’s suffice to say that this new woman has done the same thing and comes with her own bag of drama. He hasn’t materialised into catch of the year just because he’s moved on to another woman. She’s paranoid as she knows she’s got tainted goods.
@Pushing.Thru Waaaaaaay too much drama going on there! He’s also pulling the PPMW – Poor Pathetic Me Whine. He values things like cutting the grass as for some reason he thinks it makes him important and carries some sort of weight – it’s just cutting the grass!
@Annied He certainly has no concept of what abuse is about – it’s part of the problem with bullies. They think that if they were that bad that you wouldn’t be there but it’s because he’s eroded your self-esteem and fed into the feeling of powerlessness. The joke strategy is a way of minimising and invalidating your feelings – I think it’s a joke so it is even though it’s not.
@Betterwithouthim Those are great wishes. Believe that you can be this way. Your guy clearly values his peers – like a teenager. He thinks his behaviour is OK because everyone else is that way in his circle.
@Sylol Restraining order. I suspect that he has his part to play in this, No doubt he has no good intentions towards her either and may be using your name in conversations to ensure she doesn’t feel at ease.
@Cherie It’s very difficult to know the motives of the sister in law. What I do know is if you had a crap relationship 18 years ago and he’s behaved like an assclown recently, whether she says something or not, it’s best to steer clear of him. Don’t beat yourself up – just be relieved that you’ve got out of it and move on.
@Anusha Indifference can feel as bad as if they are saying nasty stuff. But indifference is no mans land – that’s one place you don’t want to be.
@Ashley We can put whatever term on it that we like but he’s not available to you or for a relationship and instead of admitting that his awkwardness and unwillingness to create a common ground with you killed off the relationship, he instead picks out some stupid stuff and lays it all at your door. This is what these guys do after each break up – distancing themselves from the truth and distorting themselves into poor, ill done by guys.
@Trish When a guy tells you he is deceptive and a liar, it means you need to run. Fast. Wha utterly pathetic lies – he didn’t fear your reaction – he’d feared being honest in case it made him an accountable man in a relationship
@Mary C You are absolutely correct and I’m glad that you recognised how inappropriate it would have been to be veiled in secrecy.
@freeatlast Lucky? This man’s a buffoon! So if he could on be 10% honest, you’d have to accept that as his capabilities?
@Leonine I think the imbalance demonstrates the crumbs factor with Fallback Girls – For everything one thing they do, we’ll be breaking out in a flurry of activity or we have to do a lot to provoke a miniscule bit of action out of them
@AJ When men want to be with you they don’t resist being with you. The problem with this guy is that it’s all words – no matter what was said, he didn’t follow through – he bailed. He’s unreliable and when you hunt him down, you’re inviting unreliability into your life.
@Loving Annie Flabbergasting! WTF can be misread about groping you up like a randy teenager?! Is that how he greets everyone? I’d hate to see what he’d do if he was interested in dating or being in a relationship. He was on a power trip – getting a kick out of your interest in him. Friendly? Utterly disgraceful behaviour. If a woman did that, she’d be called a pr*ck tease.
@Gigi Never accept being someone’s secret, especially for his loser reasons. At the end of the day, he’s complaining about fundamentals and basically telling you ‘This ship is not going to sail’. Do not allow him to use you until he has a better option.
@De-lightedtobefree It’s not sick – it’s just time to let go. We all get there in different ways and the important thing now is to accept so that you can grieve and move on.
@Nele Wow! This guy epitomises my post. In his mind, he is doing his damndest not to be his father and is not realising that he’s doing other things. I bet he has short man syndrome too…
@jordylass When men talk like this, it is a sign that they need to be dumped, pronto. No halfway decent man says sh*t like this!
@MC What a joker! He should have said that he thinks of you once a year!
@singloudly She is dodging her part in the end of your relationship and in light of the fact that she’d been fleecing your joint account with her new partner, it shows her great capacity for deception. Rather than admit that she’d emotionally left you to be with someone else, she blames her lack of feelings for you on you, implying if only you’d been and done more, she’d still be there.
@scandia He’s a controller and be very careful of it crossing into abuse.Your friends are not very bright, supportive, or empowering, probably because they believe men are sources of security. Stick to your guns.
lindsay bluth “Needless to say shortly after we broke up he turned to Budda and to the village tramp who is his Sugar Mommy.” – brilliant line! This guy is the creme de la creme of responsibility dodgers – he’s saying God told him to do it!
@am Yep, when a man basically tells you he’s rubbish, it’s a major warning sign. If you don’t heed the warning, they’ll blame you as they feel it absolves them of their actions because you were forewarned.
@oldchris What kind of ridiculousness is swirling around in this mans head? Is he just a cardboard cutout that shows up! You are well rid of him!
@Cyndy This guy is a creep – period!
@truthhurts This guy is a piece of work! ‘Natural urges’ my arse. He’s not interested in friendship – he wants a free ride!
@fleur You should have said ‘a lot’!
@am If you don’t have to change, you won’t. Until these men struggle to get women, they stay as they are
@omelas This man is a flip flapper and never let a man downgrade your status!
@Blaise Parker OOh! He is shameless! Don’t let anyone pull that again! You’re much wiser now!
@Fiona How does he know it’s 80%? He sounds desperate and out of control. He can’t cope with being in a relationship and no doubt you’ll join the long line of women who’ve hurt him and he’ll never look closely at his own behaviour.
@peacefrog Utterly disgraceful! Thank God you’re away from them!
@AJ I’ve often wondered the same thing
@Heather I think you’re understanding him perfectly fine. He’s now in deny mode where he won’t admit to anything that he doesn’t have to. Ditch him as soon as you can!
@Gayle Indeed
@Isabella Very disrespectful!
@de-igtedtobefree He was describing you as a doormat.
wow I really wish all of us were in one giant room together. I need to hear all your stories/advice and opinions, Love shouldn’t feel like a constant stab in the heart.
Bless you for taking the time to respond to each and every one of us, Natalie! I know you’ve got your hands full at the moment, with a little one and not feeling well, so thank you for your kindness and consideration.
Hi NML,
Yeah, I’m so disgusted by this, it shows he knows nothing about me, I am altruistic, not a people pleaser, I know when to say no, I know how to delegate, I know a bad relationship and bullies and I can walk away at a blink of an eye…shame he didn’t realize that when he was begging me for his friendship, Now he knows a bit more about me
he said, ‘I am selfish and I have a dark side, I have to watch this every day of my life’… I replied, yeah I understand, I know I am generous and I have to say NO 4 times out of every five. Poor baby cried. Yeah… next!!
Not his doormat anymore
xxx thanks NML
I’m sorry MNL, I didn’t know you were unwell, please feel better soon. And, I thought this morning how lovely it is you are answering everyone too.. like Wandering Ivy, I wanted to thank you for that as well
I found your site two days ago and it’s been a godsend – after three years of wasting my time i was finally broken up with by my EUM/AC (he’s a bit of both to be honest it hurts to even say it just yet as it’s still raw and i loved him with everything i had, but it’s true) – by email – this week. This blog has single handedly pushed me out of the black hole of dispair i was living in and made me see the light. I’ve actually laughed out loud at certain things, which is something i didn’t think i’d be doing for quite a while yet.
This was a classic EUM/AC situation where he had other emotional commitments by the spade which he just wouldn’t address and whilst we were soul mates and lovers (and I genuinely believed that we had something special here and he did too, that i know) he just couldn’t stand up and make the necessary adjustements to his life to accomodate this relationship he claimed to want so badly – or let me go. Hence I was strung along indefinitely living off crumbs the entire time (he left, he came back, he hesitated, he promised he was committing, he then did nothing and promised, he asked me to wait, he promised he’d never leave me, he promised things were being sorted out, he questioned why i believed things were not happening and then he just disappeared) – hoping that my patience and love would somehow prevail and that if I proved myself hard enough he’d finally take me out of one of the compartments of his life and make me a place at the center of it like i had… yeah right.
For the first time in this “relationship” i held him to his promises this week and gently but firmly re-set boundaries that he had been pushing for years (in the future this will happen, this time next year this will happen, by christmas this will have happened etc…. the list goes on) and reminded him the clock was ticking and that i was observing him. He panicked, probably sensed i was serious this time and that he’d made a fool out of me quite enough at this point, and he bolted. Sent me an email to say goodbye because he was sorry but he couldn’t deliver what he’d promised in the end, he’d taken the wrong path, made the wrong decision and needed to back track and take another, and that he preferred to write to me to explain things properly and to remember us in a nice way not crying (hence the email) and that he didn’t want to waste any more of my time because he wasn’t worth it he just wasn’t ready- so to forget about him because he wasn’t coming back. An email… after all of the time i wasted and the promises he made about being ready (I had clearly put it to him on many occasions that i felt he was not ready and to just leave now if that was the case) and the support i gave him, all i was worth was an email.
I wish i’d done that a long time ago (he’s been playing cat and mouse since the beginning) i’d have saved myself so much trauma and the humiliation that he finally called the shots at the end. But i’ve learned my lesson. The hard way.
I loved your list of how to recognise an EUM – mine was definitely a walking, constant excuse with issues that i was trying to fix. He came up with classics such as “I’ll always love you no matter what” (fat lot of good that is to me if you’re not with me), “I miss you too” (so why aren’t you making time for me, why are we speaking on the phone instead of meeting up), “you’re the only woman i’ll ever love” (but not enough to actually want to be with me properly), “you’re the most fabulous woman in the world” (yet again thanks very much but if i’m that great why aren’t you with me properly) and general statements along the lines of “but you’re not in my shoes and until you experience XYZ you can’t understand how difficult this is for me” (because of course, your problems are always that much harder than mine what would i know about life) – another variation of that was “you had a happy childhood so you can’t understand this” or “I can’t keep having this conversation over and over again” (well if you were doing what you said you’d be doing we wouldn’t be having this bloody conversation again now would we)… He made me feel like there was something wrong with me in the end it was awful.
His actions were absolutely not in synchronisation with his words. And whilst I believe he did genuinely happen to be a decent bloke caught up in a tricky situation and the love was definitely there, his passivity and inability to just stand up and sort things out and decide what he wants and just go for it are what make him a partial AC and a total EUM – i was waiting for him to make decisions he was clearly unable to make.
I suppose what i’m trying to do now is to pick up the pieces of what’s left of my world. This relationship has left me severely isolated (in the end i couldn’t admit to anyone i was still seeing this guy when he came back the last time, so i lived a double life) and disconnected from myself and scarred. I’m seeing a therapist at the moment to sort things out. I’d like to understand how a seemingly emotionally healthy person like me would get herself into such a mess and then keep banging her head against a wall… Because believe me, I’m under no illusions that I allowed this to happen to me and that whilst he is the EUM/AC, I’m the willing victim who offered myself up on a plate for years. I need to really put all of this to rest before i can even contemplate where to go next – i really would like some time alone but i want to make sure i use it constructively. Any tips on how to go about this?
I keep swinging between the grief of losing the illusion i had about my life (my whole future was envisioned with this relationship in mind if only it became X,Y and Z – he asked me to have “visions of the future to help us focus on getting there” – yet another classic line don’t you think?!?) and relief that i’m free from this constant nightmare of his emotions/words/actions/inactions and his life in general (that’s all we talked about mainly) directing the course of my days and nights.
We’re doing NC forever more – we tried it once a couple of years ago (on his request might i add!) and he then broke it and came back and i gave in – but this time I have done all the necessary cutting of ties the last thing left is changing my phone number – i genuinely believe he will not break it this time as his goodbye was final and he’s still running and will never look back but i’m taking those precautions nonetheless for myself – i want a life without one single trace of him in it. Thankfully we won’t bump into each other i think so we should be ok.
If anyone has any more wise thoughts please feel free – i’ll be visiting this site regularly as part of my “rehabilitation” process
Thanks for listening!
Afoolby anyother name and any one else seaking to ease their heart… I found this site below, just the first page was very useful. It helped me realize there was love there and that helps in knowing I wasn’t completely duped and used and shifted blaming myself to putting the responsibility squarely where it belongs.
http://www.simplysolo.com/relationships/how_to_spot_a_commitment_phobic.html
De
“I keep swinging between the grief of losing the illusion i had about my life (my whole future was envisioned with this relationship in mind if only it became X,Y and Z – he asked me to have “visions of the future to help us focus on getting there†– yet another classic line don’t you think?!?) and relief that i’m free from this constant nightmare of his emotions/words/actions/inactions and his life in general (that’s all we talked about mainly) directing the course of my days and nights.”
Afool – This hits the nail right on the head. I’m so pissed off that I cant seem to get over this bit. And that whole visions part…when a man tells you to look into the future with him and you set a goal and you take on the world arm in arm to make your perfect life together – you kind of believe that THAT is the plan! I was so enveloped in making our dreams come true that I didnt notice (or perhaps didnt want to admit that I noticed) he was actually bailing. One foot out the door while his lips were flapping lies. What a crummy thing to do to ANYONE!! I try so hard to put myself in his shoes and see me from his eyes…was he thinking “Aw..she tries so hard, how pathetic and desperate” or what!?? It would be really awesome if there was a hypnotist out there that could permanently remove this idiot’s memory from my mind so I could function properly but I know its a necessary process to go through. It just sucks is all.
Afool, the excuses he gave really freaked me out as I’ve heard the EXACT same ones! “You’re the most fabulous woman in the world” Interesting. My new motto is SHOW ME. I’d rather be with a mute who shows me with his actions than a bullshitter who fills my dreams with nothing but words.
NML….Hope you’re feeling better soon
Thanks for comenting on my post Natalie and I hope you fell better soon
You are spot on,indiference hurts as much as being told nasty words.It makes you fell a nobody and destroy your self esteem.And that certainly isnt something that I want for me.
“I dont understand why you have to love or hate me”
I think this sums it up… they dont want to have you or not have you.. they dont want you to expect anything or go away.. it keeps you right in the middle with nothing… and no responsibility for your hurt feelings.. so wrong.