I’ve talked about love many times on this blog and ultimately much of what ties us to someone who we’re in a poor relationship is believing that we love them and trying to convince them that they should love us and give us the relationship and validation that we want from them.
The trouble is, feeling that you want someone and love them doesn’t put them into a contractual obligation to love you back.
Your love doesn’t spread out and get projected onto them.
In essence, loving them doesn’t instigate an IOU – I love you so surely you must love me?
There is a consistent thread of us being caught up in illusions, denial, projection, and potential.
We conjure up this vision of the person which is sometimes based on brief behaviour that they have exhibited or is an out and out fantasy based on how you’d like him to be, or based entirely on what you believe to be the magnitude of your feelings literally clouding your vision.
We deny the reality of their behaviour and often the reality of our own, and opt for the illusion because it stops us from having to accept things and take action.
We project what we think, feel, and do onto them believing that in them being in this relationship that we believe ourselves to be in that they will think, feel, and do the same. We often base much of our expectations on this – If I had someone loving me and accepting me warts and all, I’d love the hell out of them and we do this because we’re trying to get them to make us feel good and validated.
We bet on potential believing that brief behaviour exhibited is indicative of what you could get in the future if you could only just get it out of him.
What this can all lead to is believing the hype of our own feelings and assuming that he sees what you have to offer in the way that you perceive it.
However, often with Mr Unavailables and assclowns, this is quite the opposite.
You think you’re showing him your love and giving him the whole kit and kaboodle; he thinks that you must be desperate.
Harsh, but unfortunately all too true. If you keep showing these guys the time of day after they have in more ways than one effectively shown their arses and let you know their true selves, they recognise on some level, that you must be desperate to still be pursuing them and declaring your love.
Classic examples are:
Cutting contact with them and then chasing them for contact.
Cutting contact with them, breaking contact with them when they make some minuscule effort to get in touch with you, for example by email or text, and then taking up the reins of contact and pursuing them even when they have stopped responding because they have already got confirmation that you’re still interested.
Trying to win him back when he’s left you for another woman and he’s still with her.
Trying to win him back when he’s cheated on you, you’ve broken up, and he has no interest in getting back together.
Being the other woman to the other woman.
Telling him that if you can’t have all of him, you’ll take what you can get.
Downgrading yourself from girlfriend to booty call.
Constantly trying to get him to see what you think that your relationship with him could be – He’s thinking “Can’t you see I’m not ‘getting’ it?”
This is just the tip of the iceberg but the saying “Whatever you’re selling, I’m not buying” springs to mind.
Bearing in mind that you often have some level of history with these guys, you’ve got to step into reality and instead of projecting what you think the meaning of things are and how he should see it, start looking at things contextually.
It’s the age old problem of us failing to see the wood for the trees.
You need to start asking yourself, “What, based on my previous experiences of dealing with him, will he interpret X as?”
Suddenly, you will become cautious about being reactive to sudden urges to pursue him or make contact, and you will also consider your actions and words in a bigger context.
“I love you unconditionally and with all my heart” to the same jumped up assclown that has been mucking you about says “I am crazy in love and you can trample all over me because I have no boundaries and very little self-respect”.
“I will be waiting for you when you’re ready” says “Go on with your bad self and screw and chase every woman you can because I’m going to put my life on hold and wait for you, while you live it up, in the hope that one day you will recognise my value and come back to me”
Operating from a place of negativity and desperation (even if you may not see it as that) often yields poor choices that impact negatively on you. If you feel desperate, you choose desperate men.
This is not you. Even if you’ve had moments like this, call it a moment of relationship insanity and get wise because you’re letting these guys steal your wind – you’re handing it to them on a plate and then turning around to show them the ‘kick me’ sign on your back.
No guy, especially an assclown or Mr Unavailable is worth you throwing in your self-respect and self-esteem towel so it’s time to pull your head out of the clouds, put your foot in reality, and start considering the bigger picture of your actions and what another interpretation of them may be so that you can cut the drama and ease your way out of the chaos of being with these men.
Your thoughts?
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All I can say is: Keep writing NML. It is unfortunate that you have to basically keep saying the same thing over and over again – but, as you know, it just takes time to “get it”. Most of us here know the deal. We know the situation we are in and/or trying to get out of, but the dream feels sooo good!
We need to wake up already. It is a dream of our own making. I cant believe that I am still missing my ex (sometimes). But I also know that it is the wishing and hoping part of me that keeps me in agony. I’ve shown all my cards and he’s long walked away from the table …
Ok that was such a timely post because right now I was thinking if I should text him to check how he is doing,after being 11 weeks NC.
“Even if you’ve had moments like this, call it a moment of relationship insanity and get wise because you’re letting these guys steal your wind – you’re handing it to them on a plate and then turning around to show them the ‘kick me’ sign on your back.”
That is so true and I do know if I chased him after all that he did to me I would be showing no love and respect for myself.After all the times he treated me like if he didnt care,used me,was rude to me and so on.It would be giving the message that he can do whatever he wants with me and that I always will be there loving him.But even knowing all that I cant free myself emotionaly from that.This yearning for him just wont go away,even with me knowing that he isnt right for me.And lately got very strong,I dont know much why but maybe has to do with me trying to date.It just didnt go how I expected what mades me afraid and wonder if I ever will find somebody else.The guys I found that were atractive werent interested on me or didnt have a personality that matched with what I want in a bf and the ones that did match that werent atractive.I think all that made the yearning for him get strong again maybe.Maybe Im being too hasty but I just want to get over him once for all,I fell I did that in my mind already(by being NC,reading this forum and so on) but not on my heart yet.
Thank you. Great post.
I just feel totally embarrassed when I read this because I have done a fair share of the above behaviours. How do you forgive yourself? I have gone back and forth between being strong and then I break down thinking… no no this was my fault, I pushed him away, I was this and that and he does not deserve me being so rude to him. Then I reengage and he’s nasty and awful to me.
I am really guilty of constantly getting him to see what teh relationship “could” be… I guess I feel it’s my fault it failed and knowing some of the mistakes I made I think “it would be different if we got back together.” God I feel so stupid. How do I move forward feeling like I do lack dignity, especially given that I have to see this man every day at work and feel like I want to run in the other direction when I see him because I feel he must be laughing at me.
Yeah so true. “What, based on my previous experiences of dealing with him, will he interpret X as?â€
I thought I was being a loving, accepting friend. He thought I had a “hit me again” attitude. I saw myself accepting him for who he was, without judgment. He saw me as giving him all the “power”. I thought, knowing all about his problems, I was treating him with compassion. He viewed me as delusional, assuming we had an “intimate” connection that to him wasn’t there. I thought I was keeping in touch when he was having a rough time. He was ignoring me and wondered why I wasn’t taking the “hint”.
The most confusing thing was that he never told me any of this until months later! What a fool I was, still being happy, friendly, encouraging toward him while apparently he viewed me as some desperate, delusional whacko.
And what’s most irksome is– that’s not who I am. He’s the only person who has ever viewed me that way. I think AC’s twist everything around and see any type of connection as dysfunctional:
“If she likes me, she must be nuts”
“Normal” people (men too!) see me as a loving, warm, friendly person. For a year he saw me treating everyone the same way I treated him, and in that same year I’ve developed some wonderful friends. That he saw me as such a “problem” is his issue.
You just can’t win with these people. It’s not worth the effort.
TJ… I like what you wrote… so are you saying that who we are is ok it’s just that it’s wasted on these people?
Are you ok with the way you behaved because you think that it’s his problem for not understanding? I like that take on it, if I am interpreting what you are saying correctly. Because while I have done some of these dumb things, I just felt that it was time to be civil, let the anger go and get over it. So if he approached me to chit chat at work, I chit chatted. But finally I got to a point where he was so rude and belittled me when he got the chance, I said forget it we are not speaking anymore!!! I look at what you wrote and feel embarassed that he likely interpreted my trying to be kind and not hold on to anger as weak and pathetic.
Dazed— The AC in my life was only a “friend” not romantic so our interactions were limited. But yes… I’m ok with my behavior. I got to know the AC very well because he sent me (he volunteered to send me!) his journal. I read all about his fears, his problems, his issues… and I treated him with compassion.
At first he enjoyed the ego stroke, but then began to view me as pathetic. That’s not a “normal” reaction. Instead of seeing me how others see me- sensitive, kind, caring- he saw me as very weak. And also began to be rude and act like a jerk. Like the post says, my ‘love’ got interpreted as desperation.
I can only look back over the last year and think about the friends I have developed within the same organization, just by being me. People see me in a positive way but the AC thinks I’m pathetic.
So this CAN’T be about me. Everything goes through his twisted mental filters and supports how HE views the world. He is not going to change who I am, but I have learned that these types aren’t worth the effort.
“I look at what you wrote and feel embarassed that he likely interpreted my trying to be kind and not hold on to anger as weak and pathetic.”— that’s pretty much what the AC told me: that he saw me as weak. In his world, I “should” have gotten angry and treated him like crap. That I didn’t, to him, mean *I* had problems.
My new Ex just contacted me to offer me a no strings chance to start over. He will do his own thing, so will I, and he will call me occasionally to keep in touch so we can see where things go and if we can rebuild or not. He is perfectly serious. Just accept his terms, let him do as he wants, and maybe, just maybe, he will give me another chance to be his kind of woman! I am still in the heartbroken stage, but not so heartbroken I will be a doormat for somebody who just emotionally abused the hell out of me. Get strong girls and turn your backs. The good guys are standing right behind you if you’d just turn around and give them a look.
Linda your post made me smile, thank you 🙂
I’m an evil bitch today apparently, and I smiled when I was told that too – realising I don’t actually care any more and the cycle of idealisation/devaluation/abuse carries on with or without me, so it will be without me.
We may think that if someone loved us so much that we would surely love them back, but it’s not true.
Been there, and I even was the one initiated the flirting that started the whole thing, just like these men.
Once I was with him, I knew within a short period of time that he was not someone I planned on having a long term thing with, but I allowed it to continue for a short time, because it was better than being alone all the time. At least I had someone to hold, once in awhile.
He clung so tight I couldn’t breath. Bought me things, just for an excuse to come over, or to buy my love, and I resented it. It made me angry. The more he clung, the harder I pulled away, and angrier I got. He was convincing me more and more, moment by moment that I would not stay.
When the man came along that I did want to be with, and saw a future with, I didn’t hesitate in letting him go, even though it bothered me that I hurt him. It still was not going to change things.
searchingwithin’s last blog post..Balance of Power Among Equals
TJ, I find it interesting he gave you his journals to read..Hmm could be the old ‘he who holdeth the knowledge holdeth the power’ sydrome. You new too much about him so you were in a strong position and he didn’t like you knowing his vunerablilities so he had to try to take his power back by devaluing you. I would see everything thing this guy says as a projection of himself, It’s all fear and self hatred on his part. honest someone who says mean things musn’t like themselves very nuch. Thats my two cents worth. He was probably jealous that for a year you made some wonderful new friends. Hah! you win girl!! Nice new friends and him out of your life, more power to you!
peace
Much 🙂
@ Linda, these men are a trip when they want things on their terms. It makes me a bigger trip to agree to give it to him 🙁 my ex that is. When i bargained with him in May to come back to me, he did so but on his terms this time. Oh, he was on a high-horse but It did not last long beacuse we broke up (he dumped me) on June 20th. Yesterday he called (i broke no contact by answering his call) and offered his friendship if I would not have him as my man and I told him that perhaps we could be friends in the future and that I needed some time. I am not interested in doing 1 damned thing on his terms and it pains me to the core of my being that he WANTS AND IS CONTENT TO GIVE ME LESS, GIVE ME CRUMBS, NOT GIVE ME HIS BEST.
@Butterfly I absolutely looooooooooooooove when you say:
I don’t actually care any more and the cycle of idealisation/devaluation/abuse carries on with or without me, so it will be without me.
You are one sharp chic
de-lighted: “You new too much about him so you were in a strong position and he didn’t like you knowing his vunerablilities so he had to try to take his power back by devaluing you”– that’s EXACTLY what I thought too! He saw himself in a “weak” position and the only way to regain his ground was to shove me away, saying *I* had problems.
I was thinking about this earlier: I sent the same exact email (about a project we were all involved with) to 4 people + the AC. The others responded positively. AC ignored it. A few weeks later I cheerfully asked the AC if he’d received it. He reacted as if I’d sent him a pile of dog poo! I realized I had done that 3 other times previously– contacted others and got a positive reply, but nothing from AC. In HIS mind he was ignoring me and I wasn’t taking the hint, so therefore I was pathetic. In my mind, I really didn’t think much of it until the final email!
These people view the world in a skewed, twisted way.
TJ, I f you thought it too, then there is power and belief in the thought. Trust you intuition and listen closely to yourself, you are giving yourself the right messages 🙂
peace
I agree,they always think the problem is us not them.I think even today my ex still thinks the reason we didnt work out together was because of me,that I expected too much and didnt let him live his life like he used to say.Im aware that a few times I did went over the top but other times I was just asking him the basics of a relationship.He had a twisted idea of what a relationship should be that I just cant get and is very diferent than mine.Like for example he could go a week or more without contact just fine,but how on earth is that normal? To me when you love somebody you like to be around that person and most of the time want to talk to them daily.I just realy never could get it.And I can relate with being always on his terms too.My ex used to say a lot “Either is that way or no way”.That site was a blessing to me,I was always confused about his behaviour before and now I finaly get it.
Oh My – I have SO done this !!!! Every single little bit of it !
In fact, even though I thought I’d done a 180 and now had my act together – I caught myself doing it again in a minor way via blog comments this week with a Mr. Unavailable !
Thanks, Nat. Once again you’ve made me clear on not slipping up and why it’s NEVER innocuous or received well – and therefore not good for me and not something I want to do.
Doing nothing is better than any kind of interaction with an assclown – and it also reinforces then that I’m not being a fallback woman – not in my actions or in anybody else’s mind/opinion.
I really appreciate this. Thanks again.
Good wake-up reminder !
Loving Annie’s last blog post..Questions And Answers
DazedandConfused,dont be embarassed we all been there.Like you I had milion talks with him too about “how a love relationship suposed to be” that he never seemed to get it.
I have been in NC with my ex AC for almost 6 months, and am just devastated (still) that all this time has gone by and he hasn’t even attempted to contact me. This post deals exactly with what I have been asking myself just as of yesterday. Very long story, but I will give you a little background. Our last fight (he would only communicate with through text) was over a decision he had to make, he wouldn’t tell me what it pertained to, I had no idea. He liked to “cut me off” when he felt like it and didn’t want to be bothered with me or my questions. Then finally after hours of silence from him, he said he would tell me what the problem was, but said “But you have no say, so be mad if you want”. Well, I didn’t take kindly to that and let him know that I was obviously not part of his present or future if he didn’t even value me, my contributions, or my opinions. Well after I told him that, he cut me off for 5 days. I played the “desperation” card, kept texting, sending him notes, etc. NO RESPONSE. So, finally I walked directly to his face and asked him why he just stopped talking to me with no courtesy of telling me he didn’t want to talk anymore. He told me that he had a lot of problems and that he had “too much shit going on to deal with me”. Stupidly, I still asked if I could talk to him and he actually said “NO!” So I turned around and walked off, and have not spoken to him since. He sent me a couple more texts after that over the course of the next three weeks, but they were very impersonal, non apologetic, non caring, etc., so I didn’t even bother to respond to him at all. This was 6 months ago, and this has been the worst time in my life.
He lives two doors down from me on my street and I have to see him every day. Some days he stares at me, some days he ignores me. But apparently he didn’t have too much shit going for another female neighbor who I will call OW. She was cavorting with him within a week of him dissing me to my face and still is. So every day since then, I have ignored him when I have been out.
I am so distraught that he hasn’t contacted me and has shown no indication he loves me, misses me, etc., after a 7 month relationship. Just like that he was done and has no remorse for his actions. As each day has passed, I have been more devastated and feel more desperation to “make him” want to contact me. So here lately, I have been worried that I am so “unapproachable” because I am ignoring him completely, that I might be causing him to not contact me because he is worried I will not be very gracious to him if he does try to contact me. I have actually been wondering if I should give him a slight wave or smile to let him know that he can approach me if he wants???. Am I sabotaging his desires to contact me or would he have contacted me no matter what if he had really wanted to?
This post proves that I would just be chasing him for contact or trying to contact him while he is evidently cavorting with the other woman. And frankly, I don’t want to be the one that after the way he treated ME, has to make it environmentally “safe” for him to contact me or have to live with the fact that I had to contact him to get any sort of response. Plus what if I did wave or smile and he gave me a dirty look or another gesture that would further destroy my self-esteem and dignity. I somehow keep looking for reasons why it is my fault he is not contacting me. He loved me, he pursued me for years, he said we were good together, etc. The day before he stopped talking to me for 5 days, he stated how he loved me, etc. It is like he just woke up one morning and decided he was “done” with me and didn’t even care. He was cruel to me like that on multiple occasions, and never really feels remorseful for anything. The fun part is now I get to watch him and OW cavorting right before me and there is not one thing in hell I can do about it. Talk about kicking me while I am down.
DazedandConfused: We have a lot in common in that we both feel we lost or they stole our dignity and we have to see them every day. I have stated in other posts that I worry my AC is laughing his ass off at me all the time when he sees me. It is a very horrible situation to endure. I totally understand.
Loving Annie,
I just read your comment. I really love how you say:
“Doing nothing is better than any kind of interaction with an assclown.”
That really helped me a lot. Thanks.
Miserable Love,I know how you fell but sometimes is just better he doesnt try to contact you.I have been in NC with my ex for about 11 weeks now and the only time he tried to contact me was about 2 weeks ago with a text to congratulate me for my team winning.He didnt ask how I was,what I been doing,nothing.And that after 2 months without talking to me.All that time I kept hoping that he would contact me too and I realized is just not worth it.I mean what if he contacts me,I crack and go back to all the unhappiness my relationship with him was? Is the same with your ex,he didnt change,he probably the same as from when you were with him yet and now you finaly walked away from it why go back? I know that deep down we just hope it will be diferent but trust me it wont.Like you I used to wonder if he wasnt contacting me because he was afraid to get rejected but then I heard something,when somebody realy wants to talk to you he will do whatever it takes for that.You did whatever you could to reach him when you wanted to talk to him didnt you? So why he cant do the same? Honestly you didnt do anything to push him away or to sabotage him from contacting you.I know how it fells when they not even try to reach you when you go NC but trust me is for the better,now you have the chance to move on and find happiness.
Miserable Love:
He told me that he had a lot of problems and that he had “too much shit going on to deal with meâ€. – I heard something similar too!
Some days he stares at me, some days he ignores me. –Same for me. He does that too. I don’t even look at him now.
But apparently he didn’t have too much shit going for another female –yep. His 5th one this year. My friendship was too much for him, but being in a “relationship” is great! lol
I have actually been wondering if I should give him a slight wave or smile to let him know that he can approach me if he wants??–NO!! I spoke to him once after 3 months and he was a jerk! He responded like a complete ass(clown), almost like he was waiting for another chance to blast me! Don’t do it
Plus what if I did wave or smile and he gave me a dirty look or another gesture that would further destroy my self-esteem and dignity.– don’t do it. I tried to be cordial and he was an ass. Like he re-rejected me for ignoring him!
It is like he just woke up one morning and decided he was “done†with me and didn’t even care. — same here. He just forgot to tell me! What kind of moron does this to people??
The fun part is now I get to watch him and OW cavorting right before me and there is not one thing in hell I can do about it.– yep. His new woman is now part of our group. But I pity her– she’s either very unhealthy or has no idea what she’s gotten into.
Talk about kicking me while I am down. — but it’s not about you. These people are completely self-absorbed. He not kicking you, he’s just doing what makes HIM feel good.
I have stated in other posts that I worry my AC is laughing his ass off at me all the time when he sees me. — laughing at someone who cared makes him feel like a big man? How pathetic is he?!!!
We can change and get healthy. The AC is just going to do what they do, with whichever willing ‘victim’ they can snag.
Oh, I am so confused! I know on one side of me that I am doing the same thing. My boyfriend keeps telling after six months, he can’t move in with me because its all him, and calls, and comes over all the time. But after six months, he can’t move in, and doesn’t want to commit either. What does a woman do? I am new at this and have that desperate feeling too. What does everyone suggest? Help
Miserable Love,
My heart goes out to you so deeeply.
I don’t have to see the married guy anymore because I threatened him, and he lives 20 minutes away (not in my own neighborhood). So, he finally stopped. He was never going to give me the relationship he promised and he hated that I finally figured it out.
I just hope that someday you get to the point where YOU DON’T WANT A GUY LIKE THAT TO WANT YOU! He is the gross one, and you don’t deserve someone like that. I hope something triggers in you that helps you realize that he is a big ASS and you’re better off without him. I know that when you love someone, and they don’t love you back, it is very hard to get over it. Normal, nice men don’t treat women the way this guy is treating you. I still think about the married guy often and have stupid thoughts that I wish he would have divorced like he said and then showed up on my door step as the “prince charming” ready to love me the way I wanted to love him, but after how he treated me, and how he lied and how he turned it around to make me feel like I was the crazy one, would I REALLY WANT A “PRINCE” like that? Uhhh, NO!
I’m just sad thinking about what you’re going through. And it is true, we got ourselves into these situations, but we can be strong, we can find it within ourselves to get out and aim higher! I do believe it will happen for you. You should continue to post here and believe what you’re reading and believe that you will get better. Take care of yourself!
I feel sorry for the other woman he is now “doing” because you know sooner or later, the same thing is going to happen to her, too. Normal, healthy men don’t leave a trail of sad women behind them. They break up with dignity and they respectfully stay away (which is what a true break up is…) AC’s always leave you wondering, and seldom give you a clean, healthy break.
Just remember, what he gave to you for that short time, and how he is now treating you (like you never mattered to him….) THAT IS NOT LOVE!
I don’t know why, but I’ve been drawn to this site like crazy the last few weeks, and I think it is just to reinforce and remember the bad stuff he did… as time goes by, sometimes we let the rose colored glasses back on and start to remember the “good” times, but I don’t want to do that. I want to see clearly.
Everyone here is here for you.
Hi All … I think we all need to remember that these AC’s never, ever think of how what they do, say, act … whatever … affects us – in a good or bad way. They do not think of us at all! They think of themselves, for themselves – only. So, to them, they are not “doing” anything to us at all. It never crosses their minds.
Self-centered, self-serving and self-absorbed. Sums it up.
Love, love, love it NML!! In my second month of NC. I have fleeting thoughts of him, but that’s about it. He was the Ephipany Relationship, with him it all came together (dysfuntional relationps/father issues, etc.). I tend not to focus on him, because I realize the purpose of the relationship happening was to help me finally “get it”. I’m so grateful that theEUM MM came into my life, otherwise the cycle would’ve continued. You will never know how much your website has guided and empowered tme toward internal happiness. Peace and Love to you NML! To all the women who are struggling to find their way, keep moving forward & don’t give up!!
I stumbled on this site and I am glad I found it. Thank you Butterfly for your comment “realizing I don’t actually care any more and the cycle of idealisation/devaluation/abuse carries on with or without me, so it will be without me.” I copied the words, pasted it into a Word document, selected a huge font and printed it out. That document is going right above my computer, so when I am tempted to check my email to see if there is a message from him, I will have those words in front of me.
Wow,wow,wow!!
TJ- I so agree!!I loved unconditionally,lost myself in the process etc etc, and he turned around one day and called me “obsessive and possessive” because I queried why he hadn’t replied to my texts.He “ended” the relationship (for a week) because of that behavoiur of mine…and yes,I was sent reeling into shock.I asked some of my friends(some who I’ve known for nearly 20 years)if that is how they see me,and they laughed!Seriously,they laughed!!!
So this AC had the power in my life to make me seem crazy,needy,obsessive,possessive,when as you say,you behave the same way with other friends,and they value your friendship because of who you are.I seriously began to doubt myself when he said that.I chose to believe him,and so when he re-appeared after a week,I almost,ok,I think I did,apologised for my behaviour!I’m cringing now,by the way.And I let him carry on treating me like dirt.Me always treading on eggs.
You see,I thought no matter how many times he vanished,he always came back,and I interpreted it as “he cares”.Having read through this site,I now see it was just for his ego stroke that he cae back.Because as soon as he found it elsewhere,closer to where he lives,he dumped me!!
Ironically,I do believe that sometimes these AC’s DO get an insight into themselves..He once told me he didn’t deserve my kindness.When I asked what he meant, he was very cryptic,and eventually said “One day you will understand..I don’t really treat you well,do I?”.Of course stupid me….rushing to reassure him I was happy etc etc(cringe cringe).RED FLAG!!!But at that moment,it seems like he really saw himself for what he is…
And I’m re-considering ifwhat I felt for him WAS “love”, and if that is what I am missing now,because could it really have been love,even from my side?Or am I just feeling the void in my life because I spent so much time doing things,chores,finding things that would make him happy,thinking or obsessing about the relationship etc etc,that I was so involved in my own little drama,it’s THAT which I am missing,and not really him…
OMG ladies thank you! I can assure you knowing that helps others is very helpful to me.
Miserable Love – darling, please consider getting yourself a new nickname. Mine also relates to my recent ex asshat, as I realise that this was subconcious (he did say he goes chasing butterflies and it’s a miracle he has never been knocked down by a speeding car – how true!).
You’re just in the “miring” stage, massively exacerbated by living near him. I did EXACTLY this about everything you have mentioned as have many ladies here.
My advice is to get yourself an ipod and some shades. Who CARES if he is staring at you?
It’s a year ago today he “made a commitment” and “I’m doing something I never thought I’d do” etc etc … yeah yeah yeah 🙂 And this is the RECENT assclown who at least only did the idealisation/devaluation and therefore seemed to be a knight in shining armour compared to the other guy.
I’m going to mark today not with rings on my fingers and a life that would have been crappy – I’m going to have a girly me night in!
Just love this site….keeps me strong when I have a wobble and miss the jerk! Thank you so much. You girls can all do it, there is so much out there for us, we just need to heal and be strongs and see the warning signs with guys in the future.
Here is what confused me most about my ex and I would like if somebody could help me to get it.The first 2 years of the relationship he was a great bf and seemed totaly interested in the relationship,he was the one who said he was falling for me only after 3 days that we had been talking.We would talk for hours everyday,he would get happy to get calls from me,get upsed when we couldnt talk or had to talk for less time,would do romantic surprises.Basicaly he just seemed totaly into the relationship.But for the other hand he would treat me bad,like he would take out his anger from his problems on me,he would go away and ignore me when we had a fight instead of just discuss things,he would set up to see me and wouldnt show up.After 2 years and when I had lost hope already he changed and started treating me better,he stoped ignoring me and started to discuss our problems,he wouldnt take out his anger from other things on me anymore and so on.But his behaviour about the relationship totaly chaged and he just didnt seem interested on it anymore.He wanted to spend less time together,he didnt seem bother when we couldnt see each other,he seemed bothered when I called,he stoped being romantic.He pretty much acted aloof to the whole relationship,like if we talked fine but if we didnt talk fine too.That was realy confusing to me and I started questioning if he realy loved me because I wasnt felling that way and he would say he did every time.I didnt know if his true self was the caring and sweet one from the first 2 years or that one I was seeing now and kept fighting to get him to go back to be how he was.I remember that when I first meet his mother she told me that he was self centered and when I said to her that he was very sweet,she said “Realy? I wouldnt know”.By then I didnt understand and just got suprprised by what she said.That makes me think that his true self was how he was the last years,I mean his mother knows him better than me and if she said that she is probably right.Plus he just was sweet and caring the first 2 years and all the rest of the relationship not,so like NML says we have to pay atention on how he was most of the time and not just on a small part of the relationship.Anyway is pretty confusing,you meet someone that seems so sweet and totaly into you and after 2 years he just totaly change.I tried talking to him but he just wouldnt get it,to him he was treating me better as a person so he couldnt get why I was still complaning.And yes he was doing that but he was acting like if he didnt care much for the relationship,you know what I mean? On the begining he acted like if he cared about the relationship but not about me as a person much and after the 2 years he started to act like if he cared about me as a person but not about the relationship,at least that is how I felt about it.What you think about that?
Anusha, it sounds like he felt guilty about treating you badly. He didn’t want to be in a relationship with you anymore so didn’t have to put up a pretence. If he’s already decided he’s out, he is going to feel calmer about everything. He’s treating you better because he’s trying to make up for what a shit he know she’s been.
Big love to all you ladies btw.x
Miseravble love..I gotta say this guy is a classic..imagine two affairs in one street, he loves the drama, he loves being watched and he is dying for his wife to find out, so he can watch you all fight over him. This guy is a nasty piece of work. I mean god, come on why can’t he be a normal jerk and find an affair further away..it’s like a good episode of desperate housewives!!
I truly truly hope very very soon, you will meet someone fantastic, until then, send yourselves a huge bunch of flowers, get it delivered to your door and read the card out loud, blush and laugh while he watches. Get dressed up, laugh and flirt on your mobile as you get in your car to go out, stay at a hotel the night, give yourself a love affair. Hmm… might just take my own advise :).
I’m sending you all the best and hope some wonderful miracles come your way. You deserve it!! And whats wrong with his wife, is she blind!!?
Anusha… that is very confusing behaviour I am sorry to hear what you have gone through. Some of these guys seem more textbook than others. Mine was the same, treated me quite well and I am still wondering why I didnt’ feel happy when with him. Funny I ran in to his ex recently who told me that she didnt’ know why, but she just knew she was not happy. This guy is amazing, so handsome, likes to do all that I do… is super smart, successful and I just could not get in to it. I felt unhappy when around him, bored… and I kick myself now wondering what the heck was wrong with me because I am worried that some girl is going to come along and snag him and be so excited, the way I could not be.
What interested me in meeting his ex and her saying the same thing is, when someone cannot attach emotionally there is a void. It’s like the smile doesn’t reach the eyes. You can’t put your finger on it, they call, they can be sweet, they don’t cheat, and they don’t pull disappearing acts. I was with my ex 5 days a week, he made plans and it was just expected that I was at his side… all I know is when I was I felt lonely.
Also, my ex was not with me long but did have a longer term relationship and lived with a woman a few years ago. He was super dedicated to her and her family. BUT it didn’t work out… for some reason 2 years down the road he bailed, or she bailed, I am not even sure on the details. These men cannot seem to attach normally to someone and it creates a tangible void between people.
I often think a lot of their bizarre behaviour at the end is because on some level they do care, they like you, they would like you around and enjoy a warm body in their life… but it’s not sustainable… it’s like it’s constant work for these men to stay energized. Has anyone else noticed this? I saw a few of us on here say that our exes expressed feeling really tired or unable to deal with situations. My ex told me he ran out of steam… he seemed exasperated and physically uncomfortable during conflict like it made him squirm. He also just seemed tired a lot as if breathing and being was exhausting to him.
Being with someone should just be easy at times… making a relationship work does take effort, but if you cannot attach properly forcing yourself to work at the relationship will seem like some additional effort you have to make in our life like another job.
So Anusha I bet it’s confusing that he was great… but trust your gut. Did you just feel at times that for whatever reason there was a connection not being made?
I was just re-reading NML’s article and this line stood out:
“I love you unconditionally and with all my heart†to the same jumped up assclown that has been mucking you about says “I am crazy in love and you can trample all over me because I have no boundaries and very little self-respectâ€.
Pretty much summed me up, but there’s a difference… I honestly believe that my ex never saw how I felt about him or how I “wanted” him as desperate. In fact, I believe he LOVED it. He wasn’t looking at me as pathetic (though I was).
These guys are all a little twisted and some, more than others. I think my ex AC is so painfully insecure that me being crazy about him was like a banner he waved to his friends. I also think it made him feel even “bigger” to himself and them to totally disregard my feelings. Does that make sense?
He has even said to me that he wants me to love him no matter what he does/says, etc. What an ego! Right now he must be crumbling up inside – wondering how I could just stop … and you know, just the fact that he was not thinking clearly makes me feel better about myself not thinking clearly.
What a great post! I’m been over 5 months of no contact but my ex EUM has emailed me a few times to try to reconnect. I’m dating someone new who is a very nice guy. I’m not head over heels in love, but I am having fun and he is respectful to me. Anyway, I digress.
Recently I have thought of my ex EUM and how superficial our “friendship” was. It was always about him and his view on the world. He and I never had joint experiences – they were always on his terms. The man I am dating now – he and I do things together and we are considerate to each other. And we talk. About things, life, politics. My ex EUM and I usually ended up talking about him and his issues or his life and his perceived problems.
So I have been thinking – what a waste of time that friendship was. It put a damper on how I viewed a lot of things in the world. I was always down. Always wishing he would be more “into” me, always wishing he would “step it up” and he never did so I was always sad or worse – very upset and depressed.
I told him why I was cutting contact. I explained myself. He chose to ignore it and just tell me to “cut the drama”.
Over the past five months he’s made a few feeble attempts at email to get in contact – but it’s still all about him “So – what gives? Are you really not going to talk to me?”
If he really cared – he’d call. If he really cared – he’d be empathetic to my reasons for cutting contact.
More importantly – if he really cared – he would have been a real boyfriend and he would have been a real friend. He was neither.
I won’t respond to him. Would you believe I am still a little tempted. Part of me is wondering if I can respond to his email and just be friendly. I did move on, I am dating a nice guy. I don’t need his love or companionship any longer.
But – I really can’t ignore our history and all the negative feelings I experienced with him. Why would I even crave his friendship? I don’t.
I guess I just still don’t understand why he can’t understand my point of view. He’s selfish – always was. I guess that’s why and that explanation is enough. It has to be because that’s the answer.
Very timely post. Thanks NML!
I know in my case I should have hit the road after the first sign of disrespect. BUT there was a long honeymoon period when we were both “in love”. What I didn’t know then was I was in love with him and he was in love with himself.
Ashley, you wrote ‘My ex EUM and I usually ended up talking about him and his issues or his life and his perceived problems’ Oh is this the truth!
This is almost a replica of something I said not long after I realised that the EUM was not genuinely interested in me or anyone else as a real person. We split up when I had to visit my sick parents (who live in the same country as him) so I was there to deal with them not to pander to him, and he jokingly said to his friend ‘I’m fed up, she’s here for them not me’
I thought it odd at the time, that someone would say something like that, but now realise that he really meant it. My role was to adore him and prioritise him, and he hates the attention being on anyone else. His behaviour deteriorated quickly after this.
It absolutely is about them and they will push you until you break, and if like me it takes a lot to break you, then for the time being you are the perfect gf, prepared to put up with almost anything in the name of love and your desperation to have a relationship with someone.
I never thought I was desperate but he obviously did and still does, he sees me as wanting someone to take care of me and tells me it can’t be him cos he can’t even take care of himself. This is total projection on his part, he wants an adoring slave, I want a mutually supportive mate – big difference!
sadthing’s last blog post..When your ‘love’ gets interpreted as desperation
Are the EUM/Ac sociopaths? I was looking at the signs/profile of a sociopath… the AC who shared his journals with me had all traits:
Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
Glibness and Superficial Charm
Manipulative and Conning
Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities.
Shallow Emotions
Incapacity for Love
Need for Stimulation- Living on the edge
Callousness/Lack of Empathy (having only contempt for others’ feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.)
Irresponsibility/Unreliability (Not concerned about wrecking others’ lives and dreams)
Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause
Secretive/ Paranoid
Incapable of real human attachment to another
Unable to feel remorse or guilt
People with this disorder appear to be charming at times, and make relationships, but to them, these are relationships in name only. They are ended whenever necessary or when it suits them, and the relationships are without depth or meaning, including marriages. They seem to have an innate ability to find the weakness in people, and are ready to use these weaknesses to their own ends through deceit, manipulation, or intimidation, and gain pleasure from doing so.
It creeps me out.
yes. its called borderline personality disorder – narcissism. they are psyco/sociopaths. it is very eerie when you start to learn about it. my EUM had all the traits. i didn’t know what i was dealing with until i started going to therapy – couldn’t sleep, couldn’t eat. my boss strongly recommended i go…so off i went to therapy.
so…i am sitting in a session. i am telling him how my “mr. charming” one night decided to pull me out of bed & drag me to the door & push me out because i made a comment about something in his past. he said, “oh, you gave him a narcisstic injury.” thus became my study on narcissism. these just aren’t guys that are jerks – these are very strange cadets. this is very well hidden underneath his charming exterior. now i know why his ex-wise has nothing to do with him. i only wish i could talk to her for just 5 minutes.
TJ
*Bingo!* on my ex EUM/AC …. add a little Narcissism too.
DazedandConfused,thank you for answer.It isnt the he was great is just he stoped treating me bad like he used to in the begining of the relationship.But even so I used to fell more loved by then.I know is crazy to fell loved when your bf is treating you bad but is just his behaviour about the relationship that used to make me fell that way.I could notice on him that he realy was happy with it and liked to be around me and that being with me was important to him(that is why he would get bothered when we couldnt meet and so on) on the first two years.But later even though he wasnt treating me bad anymore he would act like if he didnt care about the relationship.Is like he fixed one thing but destroyed other understand? I mean he could go a week or more without talking to me just fine.And when he was with me I didnt fell he enjoyed it,it was more something he was doing of obligation.He almost never was romantic anymore,he didnt say he missed me often.Even on my birthday and special dates he wouldnt bother to do anything diferent.And it just felt like being with me was a bother to him.I think maybe for a loving relationship we should have both,be treated nice but also treat the relationship as something important.Even though he wasnt treating me bad by the way he acted about the relationship I just didnt fell loved and important,like if me being on his life or not made no diference.And the funiest thing is that by the first two years he didnt look emotionaly unavaliable at all!!! He looked as the most sweet,caring and interested bf ever and our only problem was that he treated me bad.I wonder if he just was playing hot to get me to fall for him maybe? Like I said on my other post,after his mother coment I probably think that he was.And as I found out later after got to know him more,he just didnt have the habit to be sweet and caring with the people on his life like he was with me.So why with me he was like that? Why he just didnt show me how he truely was?
@lisa
Thanks for the props ïŠ
Anusha:
“I expected too much and didnt let him live his life†– my EUM would also be happy to go for a week without communicating, and said he would expect to hear from me about once a week if we were both busy at work. When I told him that wasn’t enough for me to feel like we were connecting and communicating enough, he agreed to one online chat and 2 emails to me per week. Crumbs, I say!!! I would also expect daily contact (or at least every other day) between people who love each other!
Eyes wide open:
My AC also said “I don’t deserve youâ€, and he made me feel needy as well– funny how they all say and do similar things.
NML – you said “loving them doesn’t instigate an IOU – I love you so surely you must love me?†In a previous comment, I wrote that I only wanted my AC to love me like I loved him. I think this is along the lines of what you are getting at here. After reading several reader comments, and reflecting a bit on my “relationship†with my AC, I am also questioning whether what I feel for him is love, vs an obsession or addiction. The relationship was an illusion. It’s funny, because in the first few months we were seeing each other, I wrote him a poem (which I never sent him) and 2 of the lines were:
“Do you love me or just the thought of me?
Do I love you or just the thought of you?â€
It’s like I was asking myself some important questions unknowingly, and this was when things were going well! i.e., he was still ‘blowing hotâ€
I am pleased to report I have made it through my first week of NC. I took NML’s advice and did something that made me happy – had a few days away with 3 girlfriends from work – and we had an amazing time! We laughed, joked, shopped, sat around a fire and shot the breeze for hours – a great way to keep my mind occupied and keep a smile on my face. (it’s funny, my AC used to say he wanted me in his life because I put a smile on HIS face – now I know that was AC code for an ego stroke!!!)
Thank you once again everyone for helping me to get to this point, which is the longest I have been NC with my EUM. I don’t think I could have come this far without the information from NML and the advice and encouragement from all of you who have written here. I want both feet in reality!
Anusha, I feel for you..he sounds very selfish, and if you are feeling so sad and miserable maybe it’s time you thought about walking. Life is too short. Please try to think about yourself more, don’t look for happiness from him, begin by doing things for yourelf, everytime you think about him try to change your thought pattern, think of something else or get up and do something to take your mind off of him…. otherwise you are in danger of obssessing (see NML”s post on otherthinking) and that will make you sick!! Get out more with other friends. If he feels you are moving away from him, itmight just wake him up. But it does sound to me like he has a character issue, if so, these guy’s never change.
peace
TJ-that list is scary it’s so accurate.18 months into my relationship with AC I developed insomnia…why?Agonising over why he never returned my call,why he disappeared and then suddenly returned,what had I done to cause him to do this…you all know what I mean.When I asked him why he ignored texts,calls etc,he would get irritated and say “It’s not always about you!”.Or call me obsessive and possessive.So he really messed with my head because NO ONE has ever in my life defined me as that.
Anyway,I ended up in therapy because of this.My therapist laid it down and basically told me he was borderline PSYCOPATH!!!How scary is that??He told me to run as fast as I could.Basically of course,I knew better,and kept on believing in his “potential”…and now here I am.
What amazes me,is after 3 years he told me he loves me(we all know what that means!),but yet he can love another woman after knowing her for a month!!I still ask,is this possible,or am I crazy for thinking it’s not?Or is it just sour grapes on my part,doubting his love for someone else?Maybe I must just wake up and realise I just wasn’t the one?Still so confusing,but 12 days NC.
I know the theory,but I just wish I could stop thinking and analysing.I have thought for so long that the problem is with me,it’s hard to get out that rut.
A friend told me the other day “Put your past in your behind”-I LOVE it!!!I smile whenever I think of that,and the poster who said she changed her AC’s caller ID to “Assclown”….
Oh,and he ended it all by text,but the last time we spoke, and I had a moment of weakness and said “Do you know the pain you have caused me?”his reply was “Yes,I know..I mean I can imagine because I havn’t felt the way you have”.i.e. 3 years meant nothing-he could walk away without feeling one single ounce of pain,regret at what he had done.That list of TJ’s…every single characteristic sums him up-and some by his own admission.He alawys said he never got attached to anyone,ever…but after a month “the one” changes it all.
Sorry,having a real vent !:)
Hey ladies,
Firstly, I love this website so much. I would really really apreciate any feedback/advice/wisdom on the following.
I know he was an idiot and beneath but there are just somethings that he did that to this day I cannot understand and I feel if I could file them away and move on
1) So we were going out for six months but although things were sexual, we had never had penetrative sex. this is because I was raped as a teenager and found it very difficult to opne up and trust men in that way. I was clear about that with him and told him it would take time. Then he started putting a lot of pressure on me, saying that he was frustrated, insecure, in the prime of his sexual life, he started asking me to open up to him about my feelings, what had happened, he said he wanted to be closer to me, becuase he loved me so much. I really loved him and wanted to moev on so I did, I told him things I had never said out loud, and although it felt wrong, I put it down to my nerves about opening up. We began having sex and within a month he had dumped me. Out of nowhere, saying he didn’t want to be in a relationship, that he could only love me 80% and only ever on his terms.
2) His ex girlfriend. When we first started going out he hinted that they hadn’t been taht serious and that they’d only gone out for 6 months. I grasped from mutual friends ( he never spoke to me baout her) that she had been a bit of a bitch. Then it turned out they had in fact been going out, on and off, for six years. He dropped hints that she had not treated him well and from beign around him I got the feeling taht he was not used to feamle company. he didn’t act like someone who had had much experience with women. Simple things about being in a relationship, like not having to pay someone back if they bought you a drink, he seemed oblivious to. he did not act like someone who had been in a long term realtionship. Then as he started acting cold towards me, the history of his ex changed. Now, it had been a really intense relationship. He said that being a long term relationship wasn’t that mcuh of a big deal to him, since he had already done it- I, he pointd out, had not. Suddenly he was remembered how passionate it had been with her. When he broke up he said that he loved me as much as he loved her (he also said he loved me but wasn’t in love with me) and that he couldn’t handle teh pain again.
3) I’m a singer, he siad when we first started going out taht’s what he loved about me, my drive and ambition. then he emailed me recently saying, teh real reason he broke up with me (keep up!) was that he couldn’t handle being “just a singer’s boyfriend”.
4) He started a new job and was using that as a reason not to spend time with me. If I wanted to meet up whenerv didn’t suit him, he’d claim to be working and get really mad at him saying I wasn’t supporting him. He had time to smoke weed all day but not for me.
I’ve seen pictures of him online, he’s back with the same loser, druggie friends that he used to bitch about to me.
I know he sounds like a real catch doesn’t he? I just needed to get taht outthere, who he really was. What he was really like.
I was surprised yesterday at how actually tough it was – a torrent of UNWANTED sentimentality where I thought it would be a breeze – where did this come from, feeling like I used to, walking round the supermarket in a daze wanting to cry and then sobbing my heart out when I got home … but I am glad I had this experience on an anniversary because it has served as a reminder and a warning of what it would be like to actually be back in touch with him, the reality of it.
I’m pleased to say that although I was thinking about this idiot all day it looks like my rose tinted spectacles have some sort of crack in them: I was thinking about when things were good and quickly seeing that it was all actually nonsense.
I had no issue stopping myself from wanting to contact him, though I did check the mobile phone which he is more likely to use if he ever does try.
Today is better 🙂
Iwant, big hugs to you. Sounds like he was doing the very classic Fallback Girl routine with his ex … I was never worried about my last AC’s ex girlfriend but I do wonder now if he was using her as FG and that I was destined for the harem (where he knew damned well I would not allow myself to be consigned). My advice would be to cut him out of your life and consider getting some support for what happened in your past from someone healthy. You need to heal in order to be happy in yourself: these people are poison.
@I want my brain back
I am so sorry that your ex EUM left you so soon after you opened up to him both emotionally and physically. That must have hurt you immensely. I was also raped as a teenager, so I know what that feels like (going to hell and back), and how difficult it makes it to trust someone to the point you will let them in to your heart and body.
1) It sounds like his reasons for wanting intercourse were all about him. The way you write it sounds like it was almost a challenge for him to get you to allow him to penetrate you. He sounds very selfish (as they all are) and self serving. Next time you are in that situation, I hope you listen to your gut, which was telling you “this feels wrongâ€. When you are in a relationship with someone who loves you and values you for who you are, your partner will NOT “put a lot of pressure on you†to do something you don’t want to do.
2) After my experience with my AC, I have come to the conclusion that they tell you what they think you want to hear about others they are/have been in a relationship with OR they tell you whatever they think will cause the least hassle to them. So at first, maybe he downplayed the ex’s importance so you didn’t ask too many questions, but then when you learned more about the truth, he had to change his story. Then it sounds like he used the experience with his ex as an excuse to leave you. Hard to say without knowing your particular EUM, but this is just what comes to mind as I read your post.
3) He probably did admire your drive and ambition – it takes a lot of courage and persistence to make a living as a singer (one of my best friend is a singer/songwriter). As far as not wanting to be “just a singer’s boyfriend†– is he just trying to make you feel even less powerful? Or is his self esteem so low that he needs to go out with a doctor or lawyer to feel good about himself? Either way, he doesn’t deserve you. We don’t love and have relationships with people because of their occupation, we love them for who they are as a person.
4) My AC used work as an excuse ALL the time. Always busy, busy, busy, but then I know he had time to do other things (which I found out through mutual acquaintances). Mine used to suddenly become “tired†during online chats, so we would end the chat so he could go to bed, but then I’d see things he’d post online an hour later! It’s all excuses, lies, manipulation as far as I’m concerned.
Anyway, that’s a long answer, but hopefully some of it helped. Like I said, I don’t know your EUM, so my answer is based on what I have experienced with my own EUM. And I am only on day 8 of NC after breaking up with my guy, so I’m still new at this. Good luck to you. How long have you been NC?
Not meant to be-Thank you so much! We broke up at the end of February. I told him that either he treated me proerly or I was gone, he just shrugged his shoulders and said that was fine. Then every month or so I’s get an email from hom begging to see me- he didn’t want to get back together with me, he stressed, he just missed me. Then he would ring me constantly for an entire day adn then when I emailed asking what he wanted, he’d give me anothr reason why we broke up. I last heard from him a month ago when he rang up drunk at two in the morning and I hung up on him. He’s now posted on his myspace page that he’s heartbroken. What hurts most and I don’t know why, is that he gave his ex, six years (albeit it on and off..) and he dumped me after 7 months and I gave him everything.He said he just wasn’t willing to disrupt his life with a serious relationship. I wouldn’t mind if I hadn’t opened up to him like I did, but how could he have pushed me to open up to him like that if he knew in his heart he wasn’t serious about me?
@I want my brain back
“when I emailed asking what he wanted, he’d give me another reason why we broke upâ€
Sorry, but if he just contacts you to tell you yet again why you broke up, he is not acting like someone who cares about you. And besides, didn’t YOU break up with HIM? He has told you he does not want a serious relationship right now, and just shrugged when you said you were leaving if he didn’t treat you right, so he doesn’t sound like he cares a whole lot about having a relationship with you right now (sorry). You did the right thing by standing up for yourself and letting him know you need to be treated properly. Now you need to follow through on that by leaving him completely unless he can show you he is capable of giving you what YOU need. You deserve better than how he has treated you so far. It’s good you hung up on him when he drunk-dialled you.
“he didn’t want to get back together with me, he stressed, he just missed me.†It may not be you he misses, but the attention you used to give him. And who knows why he put the broken heart on Myspace – maybe trying to appeal to your caring nature so you come back to him and he can treat you poorly again? Sorry if I sound harsh – I may be feeling a little bitter towards these guys because of what has happened to me.
“how could he have pushed me to open up to him like that if he knew in his heart he wasn’t serious about me?†If he is a typical EUM/AC, he is unable to comprehend your feelings, and only has feelings for himself. This is one of the most important points I have learned from NML and others on this site who are helping me on my journey AWAY from my AC. He had selfish intentions when he pushed you to open up, and to have full-on sex with him, even when you told him you were not ready. You gave yourself to him, and he did not give back to you the love you want and need. Maybe you made a mistake in giving in to his pressure, but you can learn from that and react differently next time. Are you glad you are broken up now, or are you still hoping to get back together with him? From where I stand, it seems you are lucky to be away from him after 7 months instead of 6 years. Assuming he continues to treat you this same way for the next 5 and and a half years, is that something that would make you happy?
@I want my brain back
oh, and I agree with Butterfly that you may want to consider getting some support/counselling to help you work through the rape you experienced as a teenager, if you haven’t already.
@Dazedandconfused
” it’s like it’s constant work for these men to stay energized. Has anyone else noticed this? I saw a few of us on here say that our exes expressed feeling really tired or unable to deal with situations.”
Yes! I have noticed it !, My ex barely went out with friends, in fact he didn’t even have close friends?! He was USUALLY LAZY and BORED. I even started to think that it could even be some mental illness such as depression or something else that because they pretend to be strong and macho they won’t ask for help. These EUAC very well could have some deep issue that we are not aware of. They may need a lot of MEDS and Treatment to go through this. But again, we are not their psychologist. If a real MAN wants to change for his own good and the ones closed to him, he would make an effort to seek help or what about starting by Apologizing to the ones they hurt?
They seem to have an innate ability to find the weakness in people, and are ready to use these weaknesses to their own ends through deceit, manipulation, or intimidation, and gain pleasure from doing so.
TJ sounds like my Ex. Very true I am not surprised I was also looking into it months ago and it makes a lot of sense. Just a Not so normal person would behave like an AC.
eyeswideopen
“18 months into my relationship with AC I developed insomnia…why?Agonising over why he never returned my call,why he disappeared and then suddenly returned,what had I done to cause him to do this…you all know what I mean.When I asked him why he ignored texts,calls etc,he would get irritated and say “It’s not always about you!â€.”
A variation of that is: Why does it have to be all about you?!
This is what my AC said and is all about playing with your head, is sick!! I also was lossing my sleep and my mind thinking of the reason why he wouldn’t reply to my messages.
All I can say is I am happier now because my stress went from 100 to 0
TJ described my assclown to a tee plus add narcisissm and that is him exactly. OMG. I really feel for you I WANT MY BRAIN BACK. You trusted everything to him and he violated you with his uncaring, selfish asshole self. Like it was just his goal to have “sex” with you, then he got what he wanted, with no care or concern for your feelings. I can relate to that. I avoided having sex with my AC as long as possible because I was afraid that was all he wanted. He pursued me for 4 years and loved me, so I felt that he must be sincere and caring or me. I wish I had never slept with him. It seems like after we did (and we only did 3 times over 7 months), he really had no need for me anymore. All of a sudden every time I opening my mouth I became a nuisance to him. It was a horrible feeling. I felt so violated and used, and still do. I am having a hard time overcoming this whole ordeal. He made me feel so wanted and special, then we he took that away from me and cold turkey stopped talking to me, it made my self-esteem so much lower than it has ever been. It is daily struggle, plus adding that he is seeing OW (who is married) across the street from me, I have to watch her carrying him coffee to his chair in the garage. She visits him and stand and sits next to him, it just crushes my soul all over again.
I am going to work on not even looking down at his house or at OW’s house to see if they are together. I really believe that I would be much further healed if I didn’t have to see his sorry ass every day. Oh the tangled webs we weave…..
@Miserable
wow 4 years? I sometimes beat myself up for having waited only a month before being physical but your story confirms an AC is AC regardless of how long they wait. I was also pissed at his behaviour after the fact, but obviously will never let him know that, on the contrary I appear as if I got over and I dont really care. What else can I do? Showing an AC you are hurt will only make him feel superior and great. Showing that you are happier could possibly be worse to them. But again what do I know they are twisted up in their head.
I was just kind of wondering…I know, I need to stop – easier said than done! I am getting over my xeum – 3 weeks NC as of yesterday. Woo hoo! But I’m wondering, a lot of NMLs posts and in muatfbg, and the posts of readers on here describe the eum coming on very strong in the beginning and the fbg not really being interested but submitting over time. And that was definitely my situation with my xeum.
Well, my xeum was pursued heavily by an old friend of mine (I feel kind of betrayed yes) and they slept together immediately, and are still, as far as I know, sleeping together and hanging out, although he claims he doesn’t want a relationship with her – for whatever reason – fill in the blank – he’s not ready, I’m sure is his excuse. He doesn’t have a steady job right now. So, I’m just kind of wondering how an eum would react to being pursued by a woman. I am quite certain that she would want a relationship with him, but would probably settle for crumbs as she is seeing a married man, and other booty calls as well. I would just be SO disappointed and hurt if they got together. I know I need to let it go, and I AM. I’m just curious. What does everyone think, about an eum being pursued? Would they submit? And want a relationship with someone who steadily pursued a relationship with them?
He certainly didn’t with me! But with me, it would have been Long Distance (1.5 hours away) and he swore he would never do that again – so WHY did he pursue me? Ok. Done.
Thanks!
JanetPlane,
Cool twist on your Planet Jane name! Is the plane taking off from the EUM airport? Lol. Congrats on getting to 3 weeks NC. I think Fridays are weekly milestones for both of us, except I’m 2 weeks behind you.
Anyway, you asked about EUM’s response to being pursued, and I imagine most would enjoy that as they don’t have to put out much effort. I think that as long as the woman didn’t expect too much from him emotionally, and wanted sex as much as he did, then why not? Sounds like a great set-up for an EUM to me – zero effort for lots of ego massage and sex. But as long as she didn’t expect too much from him, as I said. Maybe your friend is willing to settle for crumbs as she has other partners on the go. She sounds a little confused herself. Maybe they are both confused/messed up and feel comfortable with each other (or deserve each other).
Most men seem to like the chase, and that may be why they usually come on strong, then back off if they are EU to maintain the “status quo†as NML says. My EUM had the same pattern as you – blew hot for 3 months, then slowed right down. But yeah, I can see an EUM liking the attention of being pursued, especially if the pursuer is close by (doesn’t have to drive 1.5 hours to see her like he would for you – too much effort). Just my 2 cents worth. Hang in there!
@ Miserable “I WANT MY BRAIN BACK. You trusted everything to him and he violated you with his uncaring, selfish asshole self. Like it was just his goal to have “sex†with you, then he got what he wanted, with no care or concern for your feelings. I can relate to that. I avoided having sex with my AC as long as possible because I was afraid that was all he wanted. He pursued me for 4 years and loved me, so I felt that he must be sincere and caring or me. I wish I had never slept with him. It seems like after we did (and we only did 3 times over 7 months), he really had no need for me anymore. All of a sudden every time I opening my mouth I became a nuisance to him. It was a horrible feeling. I felt so violated and used, and still do. I am having a hard time overcoming this whole ordeal.”
Wow I completely relate to this. In my case I too suspected he was only after sex and I knew him for a year…let me just say that even when you don’t give them sex they still display this disgusting behaviour. i so nearly ‘gave it up’ but somehow at the last moment backed off and said no, as there were so many red flags i can’t tell you…a live in partner who he’s ‘friends with’ they don’t have sex, he’s misunderstood, doesn’t have many close friends, doesn’t let many people in but ‘the few’ he does ‘let in’ are friends for life, can only show his emotins after ‘the closeness of the ‘ultimate connection’ i.e. sex etc etc the usual. Any way I got sucked in and trusted him with things I’ve never told even my best girlfriends. oh yes he was Mr kind and caring then, and knew how to draw stuff out of me…let’s just say it was not an equal relationship as he was in a position of trust. oh yes and did I mention he said he is only drawn to ‘damaged women so I can fix them’? Yes ladies, pick your mouths up off the floor he actually said those very words to me.
Fast forward a year, I’m reluctant to give him sex and at first it was ‘it’s ok we’ll be friends no matter what’.
Whether he got fed up of waiting for me to give it up or whether he realized I was unlikely to give it up (although I will say that I was VERY tempted to…I was completely emotionally involved and thought I had fallen in love with him…he got into my head and worked a complete number on me) I will never know. But he suddenly stopped talking to me just like that, out of the blue, no warning. It was just after got me to admit how I felt about him ‘you seem to love me, sometimes i think you do but I’m not sure’ he said. And when I told him I thought I did, bam out came Dr Jekyll (is he the evil one, lol? Well whoever the nasty one is…he came out).
In my shock I did all the wrong things as well: texting email, calling, all of it. Managed NC for 3 weeks when I saw how self destructive my behaviour had become, and then broke it, only to have him send a sarcastic text back…yes i too felt he was laughing at me.
So
@Katty Showing an AC you are hurt will only make him feel superior and great.
I can absolutely tell you that I have found this to be true. The behaviour of these people is baffling to me. It really is.
@ Lisa Normal, healthy men don’t leave a trail of sad women behind them. They break up with dignity and they respectfully stay away (which is what a true break up is…) AC’s always leave you wondering, and seldom give you a clean, healthy break.
This is the line that made me sit up and say ‘yep that is soooo true!’ that was the one thing that i asked of him, to explain why he had suddenly cut me off and he just came back with a string of sarky one liners, designed to cut me down ‘put me in my place’ but not answer my very simple and straightforward question.
It was the wondering which led to me breaking NC as I was after ‘clean and healthy’ which i know will never happen.
I must add that even though I did not sleep with this guy and am sooooo glad i didn’t, I still feel violated used and discarded. i invested a lot emotionally but he has been my epiphany ‘relationship which wasn’t quite a relationship’ and all he has done is catapulted me forward towards a happier future without him, he can stay in his sick mess if he so chooses.
I’m pretty sure everyone has done this. Usually once you’ve moved on you start kicking yourself at how pathetic you acted. Eventually the revelation comes and you realize that you’re throwing yourself at someone who isn’t worth the energy.
My assclown pressured me for sex after I told him I was not ready.,.similar past abuse etc…but he made me feel like there was something wrong with me for wanting to wait, for wanting to be sure etc.
Once I asked him what it was he found attractive about me and he listed 7 things, only 1 of which was about my character, the rest were mostly physical.
The creepy bit was he said he liked my ‘innocence and naivety’ and I said, ‘but that’s the very thing you want to take away from me, so if I let you what will happen to your attraction?’ And he pulled some rubbish about how it would be replaced with ‘knowledge’ and I would be ‘healed’ by letting him ‘have’ me! Creepy now that I think about it.
The day I nearly gave in to him I stopped it as I just could not relax, nothing felt right at all and when he finally realised I was not going to ‘let him in’ he got this sad look on his face and said ‘I can’t win. My partner won’t sleep with me and you won’t either!’ And he saw no problem with that statement.
I am gobsmacked writing this out that I’ve actually pined for this excuse for a man for 3 months! And feel gutted that because I broke NC last week he thinks he has me under control…missing him and wanting attention from him. It sucks that he doesn’t know that I now realise what an AC he is but never mind. The important thing is that I DO know.
“he got this sad look on his face and said ‘I can’t win. My partner won’t sleep with me and you won’t either!”
Boo hoo! Don’t y’all ladies just feel SOOO sorry for this guy?! I can’t tell you how many times my xeum pulled some b-sh*t guilt trip on me. They do it with everyone. Gets so tiresome.
Good for you Mel. Let him pull this crap on someone else…and feel sorry for that someone else, and glad you’re not them…anymore 😉
mel
“Once I asked him what it was he found attractive about me and he listed 7 things, only 1 of which was about my character, the rest were mostly physical.” I can soooo relate to this, and actually it was the final straw that made me break up with my AC. He said I was “caring” and “patient” but the rest of the characteristics were physical. *Ugh*, so frustrating and degrading. Good for you for not giving in.
Janet Plane said: “Boo hoo! Don’t y’all ladies just feel SOOO sorry for this guy?! I can’t tell you how many times my xeum pulled some b-sh*t guilt trip on me. They do it with everyone. Gets so tiresome.”
I wish I knew this before I gave it up for my EUM –after we were flirting for only 2 weeks (but after knowing each other for a year). Mine made me feel sorry for him because his wife had been pushing him away for years. Janet Plane – thanks for making me smile about it at least. But, I noticed you didn’t respond to my last couple of messages to you. Are you not agreeing with what I’m writing?
@ Notmeanttobe
My man never said that to me about not deserving me (gee, I wish he had-that would have been a hint!) but what we ladies need to learn is that if someone says that to us, we should believe them-and run away from that person in the opposite direction as fast as you can. If they have acknowledged that they are not good enough for us (and they know themselves better than anyone, right?) we should take their word for it!
Got an email from my guy today-after I violated the NC rule on Monday. Thanks to caller ID, he knew it was me, and did not pick up the phone. Funny, but I was calling him to say stop stressing about what you do or don’t feel, I am going on with my life. I actually think it is kind of tacky to tell someone a relationship is over by email or text, but that seems to be the trend today. Anyway, since he didn’t call back, I resolved to go forward, and not convey any more messages-he will have to do what I did-figure it out on his own!. He says he was sorry for not taking the phone call-he is just not ready to talk to me yet. He is still working things out! Keeps referring to friendship. Now you need to know that this relationship was not some figment of my imagination-we were planning to be married, and I was going to move to where he lives-about 2000 miles from my home (I live in the US.) Then he decides he is not sure. Doubts, I can understand-I would guess everyone has them. What is not acceptable is this email/text message method of conveying something serious as this. As far as I am concerned, email and text messages are tools for UEMs. You had better believe I will make it clear that TMs and emails are not a substitute for genuine communication, and if that is the best you can do, keep moving. Not playing that game again, ever!!
I have not replied to the latest email (I was so tempted, but this time I was tempted to say “Keep it moving, dude.” However, after reading the articles written on this site, I think no response is the best response. Who cares what he thinks? There is no need for me to justify what I do or don’t feel to someone who really is not all that concerned about my feelings. He is telling me how hard it is for him, he doesn’t know how to deal with his emotions, blah, blah, blah. Ladies, this is a trap into which we often fall-trying to justify our rationale for making decisions to end a relationship. Not falling for that any more.
The thing is, I would have been understanding about last minute doubts, cold feet, etc However, if you are an adult, you should have the maturity so face someone and explain to the person who said you care about, that there is a problem, and be willing to try and work it out, together, as adults. The fact that he can’t is an indication of what my life would have been like, had I married that fool.
Now, this still hurts. I have no idea how long it will take to get past this. I still cry randomly (like now) but I will manage to get through this. In addition, I will do everything I can not to pass on this baggage to the next man with whom I enter a relationship.
My friends say I dodged a bullet, and that I should be glad I found this out before I got married. I know they are right, but still….it hurts.
@Penny
Oh my goodness, are you saying he broke your engagement by email? if so, how awful for you!!! How long since you two broke up? and how long were you NC before you called him on Monday? No wonder you are still hurt after he treated you like that – I hope you are taking very good care of yourself to help get over this difficult situation. You are right, he doesn’t deserve you (too bad he didn’t tell you straight out like you said). Hugs to you…
Notmeanttobe,
I’m sorry! Sometimes I lose track of the posts, or where I saw them…or where I posted for that matter…there are so many on here! 🙂
But I DO agree with what you said about eums being pursued by women. I am HOPING that is the case with my xeum and my friend.
It’s extra tough though for me, because the night my xeum and the old friend met, she and I spent the whole night talking and we talked for quite a while about him. I told her how I felt about him, and that I really cared for him and want a relationship – and she told me that I wasn’t being assertive enough. She ensured me that I was way too stand-offish with him and that I needed to let him know that I wanted to be with him, and then OF COURSE he would want me! Then, a few days later, SHE got his number and called HIM herself and they started…seeing each other, messing around, whatever they’re doing, and he started blowing very cold with me. I was devastated!
So not only did I lose my eum…but I’m left feeling that somehow it’s MY fault. But you know what, he was in and out on me for 2 years! I’m sorry if I didn’t rush to him, lay my heart on his door and beg for him to commit to me. We’d had plenty of conversations about how he didn’t want a LDR – and yet we seemed to be in a relationship anyway, so it felt good, until he found someone else! But every now and then I wonder if I could have done something more…and I wonder if it’s my eu that is coming into play. But I was so open with him in the beginning and got hurt when he first blew cold…I wasn’t too keen on trusting him after that, and always took it slow. Anyway, I have my little scenarios that I remember when I get to thinking I’m to blame, and they remind me why NC is the only way to go!
Thanks for responding notmeanttobe!
Planet Jane,
No problem re: losing track of posts – you’re right, there are so many! Which is good as I like to read them all.
So, I can’t see how your EUM bailing on you and going with your old friend is YOUR fault. He had 2 years with you, and I don’t think it should be necessary for you to beg for commitment! If he wasn’t so EU, the relationship would have grown, despite the distance (which isn’t that far, really – only 45 mins to meet in the middle). And your friend could have respected the fact that you have feelings for this guy, and maybe waited to get together with him. That must really suck to feel betrayed by both of them.
You are right, NC is the only way to go – for your xeum, and possibly your friend, too, if she has shown herself not to care for you???
Stay strong Planet Jane!!!
Thanks notmeanttobe, It hurt SO much to be betrayed by both of them. I really don’t understand why she felt the need…it is something I would never do, I mean, there are so many other people out there. But I guess everyone has different values. And in a small, but growing way, I’m glad it happened. It gave me a way out. He knows that I know about her. He called once (I didn’t answer), and I think he feels like too much of a sh*t to call again. And for the first time in two years, I get no dirty text jokes from him! It’s really a miracle. 😉
And THANK you for confirming. HE had two years to have a real relationship with me, I told him I was willing to try, but he did not. He’s an eum, and there was never a chance. And I’m a recovering fbg/euf, and I have a chance in the future!
Love this site! It’s a lifesaver!!
“Mine made me feel sorry for him because his wife had been pushing him away for years.”
I guess it’s the classic, I can be better for him, I can love him better that NML talks about. And it’s also making his problem your problem. Any adult person, who is truly not happy in their relationship has the absolute freedom and maybe the responsibility to commit more fully and work on it, or LEAVE it, and not drag someone else in…or down with them. All adults need to be accountable for their own lives and relationships. And we need to expect and reinforce it in each other. Love it! 😀
@ JanetPlane
So true! I said to the AC one day, after an afternoon of him going on about what a great guy he was to his partner but that she didn’t see the point in sex and could happily live without it etc. I said ‘but sex seems to be a massively important part of a relationship to you (he talked about it non stop) so it begs the question why are you still there? If you can only express yourself emotionally after sex and she isn’t giving you any, then where is the substance of your relationship? You are there because at the end of the day, it works for you on some level. So what level is it?’
And he got kinda embarrassed and didn’t really answer the question. This is a characteristic I’ve found. There were several points throughout the year ( I used to see him weekly, he was teaching me to drive) when I would ask him a direct question and you know what he would NEVER give me a straight answer but would always try and turn it back on me or point out a weakness of mine or say to me that all I’m doing is making excuses and trying to justify why I don’t want to move MY life forward.
His agenda all along was sex. But he would phrase it as ‘ I can see how lonley YOU are Mel, I can see how much pain YOU’VE experienced, it’s so obvious what YOU need. I have never met anyone so bound up who NEEDS to be released (via sex of course) than you.’ On and on and on, week in week out and the worst thing about it all was that cos he was teaching me driving I was paying to listen to this shite and seriously doubting my alarm bells along the way.
Maybe he was right. Was he right? No I don’t think he is right? Why is he asking me for sex when he has apartner whom he describes as his ‘best friend’? Etc etc. my mind and thought life went into overdrive as I’m processing all of this bombardment whilst trying to learn how to drive.
He used to say it was important to be able to drive and concentrate while under pressure, so he was helping me be a better driver.
It is really only now that I see how abusive his behaviour was/is, but at the time I thought it was my fault, because I was attracted and I liked the attention (except for the bits where he made me feel like a sex object).
@Notmeanttobe
Well, he did not exactly break the engagement by email, but he did say he wasn’t sure how much of a match we were (we have different political views-which we shared right from the beginning) and he was concerned how this would impact the relationship. He said he had to remain less than responsive until he “figured this stuff out.” What “stuff” I have no idea. I understand that marriage is a huge step (he has been married once before; I have never been married) and that both parties want to be 100% sure that this is what you both want, and that both of you are equally committed to the relationship. However, in my opinion, you do not build a relationship by not communicating directly with each other. Yes, I understand the need for men to have their “space” so initially I tried not to press-even though I was perfectly clear that IF the relationship were to continue (as far as I was concerned, any further marriage plans immediately were put on hold until we worked out the issue of communicating serious issues via email.) I also made it perfectly clear that after pulling a stunt like this, I was now going to have to take that same time and determine if he was going to be the husband for me. What bothered me about the situation was not so much that he needed additional time to contemplate the marriage (and yes, that did bother me-he was the one who asked me to marry him repeatedly; I kept asking for more time, and kept asking him if he were sure) but his reaction to his doubt. His reaction made me wonder if this is how he would handle problems in our marriage; and this problem solving method was really not acceptable to me.
This has been going on for almost 2 months now. My birthday was a few weeks ago, and he sent an e-card saying he was thinking about me and that we would talk soon. Also, this situation was really hard for him. (Cause isn’t this stuff always hard for them??) IMO, the birthday card was the type you would send to a friend, not someone you claimed to love and asked to be your wife.
Again, email and TMs just do not meet my standards of communication. We used these methods (or rather, I adopted my communication style to his) because we don’t live in the same time zone and we both travel for our jobs. Also, I am a day person, he is a night person, so email allowed us to communicate with each other, when it was convenient for both parties. I will never do that again.
In the latest email (which I have not answered-it has been only 24 hours, but hey, I am proud of myself for not responding) he talks about not wanting to offend me by referring to me as a friend. (Yes, I was offended when I got that card, in fact, now, I wish I had not opened the email) but we have a loving friendship, blah, blah, blah. He can’t express his emotions with me at this time. He says I might have lost confidence in men (or maybe just him-Duh!!) but again this “is really hard for him, too.” He says he “can’t be confident in own heart.”
This is not how you treat someone that you were planning to marry, but what I have learned from this is that just because we (as women) would behave in a certain way we can not expect men to behave in that same manner. IMO, very often, they simply do not have the emotional capacity to adequately express emotion. I gather from his messages that I am supposed to be understanding about his dilemma (understanding has left the building) while it is okay for him not to be understanding about the amount of pain this has caused.
When we got involved, we discussed his previous relationships; he said he outgrew his wife mentally, and just pulled away from her so they ended up divorced. (They got married very young.) He said he felt guilty about how he ended things with her, and years later, sent her a letter apologizing for how he treated her. That set off an alarm in my head, but I ignored it. Big mistake-never ignore your gut instinct. Prior to this man, when small things would come up in the beginning of a relationship (or even when first meeting a man) that I didn’t like, I would think they weren’t the person for me and keep going, with no hard feelings on my part. Then someone close to me (a man) told me that I dismissed men too easily, I wanted someone to meet some ideal standard. So, when this relationship began again (we knew each other years ago in school) I made a conscious effort to overlook some minor issues that normally I would have taken as a sign that this was not the person for me. Big mistake. Incorrect or not, I am going back to my prior philosophy of not ignoring little things, because they are an indicator of larger issues that will eventually arise.
Thank you for your support. I am glad for this site-even my girl friends (who have been tremendously supportive during this time) don’t know the whole story of this nightmare. Deep down, I know it will be eventually ok-and the pain will stop. Going to a book fair today that I don’t really want to go to, but being out of the house will force me to talk to people and not focus on this nightmare.
Thank you everyone for listening. Sorry, if I my post was too long, and I rambled.
@Planet jane
“He’s an eum, and there was never a chance. And I’m a recovering fbg/euf, and I have a chance in the future!†So true, and that’s the fantastic part – we know the score now, and we can recover and grow and become happy people. Your friend and the EUM may not be as fortunate at this point.
@Janet Plane
OK, I’m not sure if you are also PlanetJane, or someone else? Sorry, I get confused easily, lol! Anyway, you are so right about me believing I could “love him betterâ€. I really did think I could win him over and make him feel so loved that he couldn’t live without me. How foolish I really was – yes, his marriage is working on some level as he is still with her, as mel said. You wrote “Any adult person, who is truly not happy in their relationship has the absolute freedom and maybe the responsibility to commit more fully and work on it, or LEAVE it, and not drag someone else in…or down with them. All adults need to be accountable for their own lives and relationships. And we need to expect and reinforce it in each other.†Yes, yes, yes, you are soooo right – thank you.
@mel
My EUM told me he could only express his emotions physically – very similar to yours. Although, if mine was not having sex with his wife for years, I’m not sure how he expressed his love for her? Maybe through doing chores – he always said he had “domestic duties†on the weekends so couldn’t communicate with me much then. You said “It is really only now that I see how abusive his behaviour was/is, but at the time I thought it was my fault, because I was attracted and I liked the attention (except for the bits where he made me feel like a sex object).†YES – this is where I’m at now too – it was so disheartening to feel like his “plaything†at times, even though he denied it (no, a plaything wouldn’t know how to push the right buttons like you do – WTF????). We must save ourselves and our energy for those who value us for the complex, amazing whole people that we are!
@penny
“in my opinion, you do not build a relationship by not communicating directly with each other.†– I totally agree. Using email and text to discuss important issues is lazy and ineffective. Even IM is a problem, as things are difficult to interpret (my AC and I had arguments during IM’s, mostly because we misunderstood each other’s messages). You are so right that in any serious relationship (esp. Marriage) you need to have effective ways to solve problems as a couple.
Men may not have the same capacity to express emotion as women, but I think healthy, non-EU men can convey how they feel adequately at least. Your man “outgrew his wife mentally†– wow, that’s kind of pressure to stay intellectually stimulating for him! Did he outgrow her emotionally? I agree with your idea to keep paying attention to red flags – as they can never be considered “little thingsâ€. I think NML has a post with a list of EUM red flags on this website. I hope you had fun at the book fair – yes, it’s great to keep yourself occupied. Good for you that you didn’t respond to his latest email. Best of luck with the NC with your non-communicative ex-fiance. It really sounds like the only way to go with these EUMs!!! I am day 9 and counting…
i think i have been extremely lucky to have found this site after my recent breakup. every time i revisit it, there is a new post that is pretty much geared towards my exact feelings at that stage in the recovery process.
i have done NC, broke it, was strong, was weak, fought with him, slept with him, friendly emailed with him…. done it all when at the beginning i swore to myself “it’ll be different this time. i’ll do it right.”
now i’m in purgatory. in a couple of months i’m moving to an entirely different continent. we don’t see each other much, but when we do it’s on the weekends at parties with mutual friends. we inevitably get too drunk, and either reminisce, kiss, or fight. or all three.
just last weekend i was fooled by his “i’m going to miss you” and literal shedding of tears only to get the sh*t EUM treatment 10 minutes later when we are in a group of people. then comes the inevitable apology from me; professing how important and dear to me he is, and how i will always welcome him into my life. because i hate being on bad terms with people, and want to be the bigger person to resolve the dumb sh*t that just happened.
then i get a brief acknowledgement email that we have to stop fighting, and a “i don’t hate you or anything.”
and then we’re back to limbo again. occasional half-assed IMs and/or texts and not actively making plans to hang out even though he had overhung this whole post-relationship mess months ago with the “you are my best friend. i hope we can still hang out.”
where am i now? confused. i’m reading the self-help books. i’m reading this site. i’m talking to friends. i’m making new ones. all i can gather is that i am self-hating individual who needs to work on her self-esteem and escape this man who i have been so convinced that i love. knowing that i am full of problems with perception of self and of others isn’t giving me the hope that i will change, nor the inspiration to try to. i just feel damaged.
i wish i could be in his place, really. to be an emotionally unavailable person like him. “not obligated to act a certain role” as he put it once. “avoiding relationship politics.” i’d avoid disappointment. i’d avoid getting shit on, and could run and chase whoever i wanted with no consequence. i’d be free, and happier.
starbuck
I could have written your words, because I feel the exact same way you do. I am in a state of limbo, a gray area. I have tried and failed NC a few times, I cannot stay away from this man. I am so sad, depressed, devastated. I have semi good days, but mostly dyas filled with anxiety and sadness. I hate it, but I can’t stop it. I to, have read the books, this site, and other, talked until I’m tired of hearing myself talk…I don’t know what else to do and where to turn. My biggest issue is we work together, and I can be strong and look happy and smile, but inside as soon as I see him I fall apart. He is still flirting with me and I allow it, still making plans with me. He even showed up here last week to tell me he loved me, what a amazing women I am and was willing to get rid of the harem of female “friends” if I WOULD stop running hot and cold?? How crazy is that? I have tried to be friends, because when we are together, we have such great times. But I cannot do this anymore. I want more and I can’t have it with him. We broke up in March, but have been in daily contact since. He gets so upset when I tell him I can’t do this. I am at a loss. I have tried my hardest to do NC and the longest I was able to go for was 4 days. Then at work, I couldn’t stand it and I went and searched him out to talk. I do listen to what everyone tells me and I think I understand what I need to do, it’s the actual doing it that I can’t come to grips with!!
Devasted,
You do understand what you need to do, but it will probably just happen in your own time when you are ready.
I know I tried no contact several times (and broke it) before I found this site, and then it became more clear that I really needed to believe that “no contact” really means no contact.
If you work with the guy, but he isn’t in your department where you have to plan and hang with him all the time, maybe you can find a way to just stay away.
I had to work a few times in the music business with the guy I was trying to stay away from, and I actually (after finding this site) called the two main contractors, told them the truth about the guy and myself, and asked that I never be placed on a gig near or with the man ever again….
I have a few less gigs because of it, but I still have work, and both of the male contractors were very sympathetic and nice to me and apologetic that men are asses sometimes :).
Every situation is different, but if you’re to the point where you know you need to try and stick with “no contact” then you need to find every means to make it work and regain your composure and your normal sanity and centered calmness.
I’m not sure if I read your story here, but if you’re to the point where you’re trying to maintain a no contact situation, then things must be pretty bad and you are ready for a clean break and a new road.
If the guy doesn’t have both feet in the relationship or have your best interest at heart, he isn’t worth contacting. (In my opinion)
Wish you the best with this.
starbuck: your description of being in “purgatory” is something I totally felt when I was in the first couple of months of no contact with my ex EUM. I wrote many times on here describing how I felt. It’s interesting to see that I was not alone in feeling those emotions.
For me – I was fortunate to have him leave my company. We don’t have any common or mutual friends and we don’t attend the same industry events any longer. For a while I would go to the industry events that I had a feeling he would be at. I made the decision to cut that part of my job (networking to a certain propsect base). It wasn’t an essential part of my job and I realized I was holding onto it to hold onto him.
Is there any way you can avoid the social events that he might be at? If so, I would do that for a few months and go to other social events. It’s worth it. It really helps in getting you out of purgatory.
You’ll begin to feel better about yourself the longer you go without contact. You can totally do it. I was hung up on my ex EUM for about three years. It is so great to have him out of my life. Looking back – I know what a pall he cast over my life and my emotions.
Good luck – stay strong!
@starbuck – I have a different perspective for you
“now i’m in purgatory. in a couple of months i’m moving to an entirely different continent.”
Yeah. You are going to a different place. You’ll start making new associations, the song that made you think of him will remind you of something you saw that was unusual to you and made you laugh. Your mind will adapt, making new neural connections and associations.
You will do something new and shiny for you so … NC!! Please please please please PLEASE don’t do what I did, make the break, go somewhere new and then fall for his bullshit again. I wish I’d seen this site before I relocated, because of course then his behaviour and clownery followed me to my shiny new life and tainted it. I was therefore alone in a new land not speaking the language yet, dealing with homesickness and all this crap.
It passes. If you would like someone to talk to about the experiences of expatriation let me know, I have an email address I can list here (if allowed) which is absolutely disposable to me and anonymous where I can give you my actual contact details (or perhaps NML would co-ordinate that?).
K have a theory, it’s kind of scientific and I just wanted to post it cause of course I know we are alwya’s looking for way’s to ‘justify’ the pain and hurt. Well this thought helped me get a bit of objectivity. It is based of scientific fact.
Humans when they fall in love hold onto this feeling for aproximately three – five years..this is so the love hormones in our body work toward procreation. After the child is born, they hang around (th elove hormones) till the child is 3 to 5, this is the time when the child needs both parents to be there to give it the nurturing it needs to see it through life. Well I was thinking most of when we get hard will this love bug ususlly take around three years to go through the motions before we have had enough, it could be these hormones have made the connection to the guy and wants to carry through to the promise of procreation. All this grief could also be our hormones changing and leaving out body cause it knows it ain’t gonna happen, that he isn’t the one!. Or if it does for all those women who have had children and then had to watch the fathers leave, even more pain.
Just a thought to get my mind off him and back onto me 🙂
@ Butterfly,
thanks so much for your response… actually to everyone who responded. i appreciate your offer on the wisedom of expatriation… thing is, i’m already an ex-patriot. 🙂
we both came here overseas (from separate countries of our own) about a year ago to teach english. we met at a teacher’s conference.
now that the 1 year contract is nearly up, i’m going home for a couple of months then off travelling again with friends. he’s also going to continue travelling and “doing his own thing.” we have not made plans to travel together, though he continuously maintains how much he wants to show me his hometown one day.
it’s stuff like that which makes it hard to completely let go. when i first tried NC, he hounded me down through email, text, IM and in person numerous times. since we are in a foreign country and met when we both arrived, we have the same group of friends, often go to the same places on the weekend, etc.
i’ve been affected by the fact that he cried in front of me a couple times since i always assumed men just didn’t do that…. but then i guess i have to think of the amount of times he made me cry and try to compare the two.
i’ve just two months left here. i’m hoping once i leave it will be easier not to contact each other as often, and have it change into somekind of “long distance friendship” through the occasional IM every few months.
it sounds like crap in a way, but it sounds way crappier just to delete him again and NC right now. we’re going to run into each other again. we both vowed to stop fighting. if i delete him, it’s just going to paint me as dramatic and cause problems, which is not what i want.
he has intonated things to make me seem like one of the most important people in his life, and so have his friends on occasion. and yet for every great tender moment, every rare instance of opening up from him, i have also dealt with loads of instances in which i am *not* a priority, i’m an option, i’m an ego stroke, and so on and so on.
it’s a mess, and i feel i have run out of options except to “ride it out” as one of his friends suggested to me.
butterfly, i know what you mean and i thank you for your advice. i can’t completely rely on a new environment to wash my hands clean of him. but i hope it will help. i don’t have the strength to do NC when i know we only have 2 months left of being in the same place in the whole world, at the same time.
going home will probably feel like going back in time, which may be distracting… might make this seem like a dream. at least at that point, decreasing contact will be easier, and get easier with time when it is physically impossible to see each other.
i know this isn’t convincing anyone, but i don’t know what else i have the strength to do.
Devastated…I understand how hard the no contact is.I am(was) on day 13,the longest yet.I also would do the NC for 2 days and he would be looking for me!Moaning because I was ignoring him.However this time,I just cant look back.The final straw for me was him saying to my face he would be back to find me if his new love did not work out.That was my “epiphany moment”.I say was 13 days-he texted me last night to thank me for something and I replied(my pleaser personality!!)but I will not give up-it didn’t make me happy or anything to hear from him.Just confirmed Im on the right track.And I am proud of myself.
Maybe you need to think of the most awful thing he has done to give you a bucket of ice water over your head to finally stop feeling sorry for yourself.I must admit,albeit a few days only,the perspective I am getting from NC is mind blowing.
But I understand…….xx
Eyes wide open
You said “I understand how hard the no contact is”. Well, at first I didn’t find it too bad. I am on day 10, and haven’t contacted my EUM at all. He did send an email around day 4, but I didn’t reply. My problem is this: I am so used to checking for emails from him, and looking to see if he is online, and even though I know in my head he is not good for me, will never make me happy, I keep looking for emails even though I know it would be so hard for me to maintain NC if he sent me one. And, even though I have blocked him on MSN, I can see when he’s online, and I still have an obsession with knowing if he’s online or not – almost like it’s comforting just seeing he’s online, even though I have no intentions of sending him an IM! I have changed his name to AC on MSN, but I don’t want to delete him completely as he is my brother’s supervisor at work, and I don’t want any bad blood to affect my brother. My EUM was really offended when I deleted him as a friend on Facebook back in December when I first tried NC on my own (didn’t last long).
Does anyone else have these issues in the first couple of weeks of NC? I am also having trouble getting motivated to do anything besides the basics like housework, laundry. I haven’t even done my income tax return, which was due the end of April! I am trying not to think about him, but it’s hard, and I have to keep coming to this site to read all the posts to avoid contacting him.
Why am I experiencing these things when I *know* he is an AC, I *know* he’s not good for me, I *know* I have put off doing important things while I was involved with him, and I have decided on NC so I can get away from this unhealthy relationship? I have re-read my list of “bad things” about my AC to help confirm in my mind that he is indeed an EUM and not good for me. Can anyone else relate to this or have advice?
Thanks
Eyes wide open, don’t beat yourself up for these behaviours you are coming of a very strong drug, bit by bit. Like stopping smoking, the urge is there but you have to fight it, you know it’s toxic and that’s why you have very bavely given it up! but the residue is still lingering, he’s in your DNA, it will take time for all of this to filter through, just keep working on it, it is very hard work but it’s the most important work you can do for yourself! maybe try to monitor how many times you are reaching for the cookie jar (so to speak) we all know too many cookies give you diabetes, one look a day, till you can manage one look every two day’s, bit by bit my dear. don’t stress yourself, it’s very normal!
peace
starbuck, sounds like we have a lot in common! I was meant to be “having an advenure” for a year or two before going to him as far as he was concerned (or at least what he was saying when blowing hot again) and noises were made about “one day”. “One day” is not good enough, shit or get off the pot!
I still would be happy to get in touch if you want since we have things outside EUM stuff which we could share anecdotes about if you like 🙂
The small “gene pool” in a foreign place really doesn’t help, and I am already very cautious about getting into a similar situation here. Helps that nearly all the men at work are gay … lol. I still think a new location will help … I hope so anyway x
@ de-lightedtobefree
Thank you for your response (you wrote it to Eyes wide open, but it answered my question, so I think you meant it for me?) You are right – this NC is like quitting smoking! I smoked my last cigarette 10 years ago, and I remember obsessing about lighting up back then, even dreaming about smoking! I will try to cut back on times I look for him online, check for emails, etc – you suggested once per day, but right now I check more than 10 times per day, so I think I’ll have to cut back from there. He IS toxic, I need to get him OUT of my DNA (love that analogy) and if all of you can do this, I can too!
Thanks for helping me to realize this is normal behaviour. Much appreciated!
not meant to be… I check my phone 100 times a day to see if there is something there from him.I don’t want to hear from him,but I do…I know all the theory.He is a typical AC-textbook case.Almost everything on this site sums his behaviour up.But my heart has just not caught up with my head.Because despite the fact that he did not care about or love me,I spent most of mt time and energy the past few years invested in making HIM happy-now there is a vacuum which I need to somehow fill.
I understand about not being motivated to do anything.I am almost paralysed.I have absolutely no interest in any of the things I used to be interested in.If I could hide in a little corner all day I would.I have moments when the pain in my stomach is so severe,and then I hate that I allowed someone like that to have that sort of power over me.And for a while I get strong,pull myself together and get strength through reading this site.And I try not to think past more than one day at a time.To think too far ahead is too painful.And I know that no matter how painful it is now,I WILL NOT look back and ever let him into my life.After his text yesterday I was in such turmoil,the insomnia was back.And I thought to myself..this is exactly how it would be if we ever even established a friendship.I just can’t do that to myself again.
So hang in there,and know that there are many of us in the same boat.NC,as so many posters have said is agony in the beginning,but it’s the only way to go long term!!
de-lighted to be free-thanks for the encouragement.Yes,he was something I was addicted to.I was addicted to the drama of the whole relationship.And I guess I am going “cold turkey”!
eyes wide open,
they are like a drug. I feel EXACTLY the same was you do. I have no motivation to do anything. But sitting around here all day is worse. I have decided that I am going to have to do this myself and for myself, or I will never get on with living my life, as I’m sure he has. Do this for yourself. We broke up in March and haved stayed in constant contact since. This is the hardest thing I have ever had to do. When I start feeling sad, I log on here and start reading. Ittakes my mind off of him and sometimes I even get a laugh out of reading what some people have to say. I am struggling very hard, but this is my life now. I need to take control. I am going to try very hard to stay away from him and avoid him at work at all costs. I am not calling or texting him at all starting today. I have no expectations any more, as I have learned that it is a fantasy of mine that he will come crawling back a changed man. Not going to happen! I journal…alot! It helps. I have written him a million letters, never sent any. I do understand that this is going to take time and be hard, but I was a strong confident women before he came along and I will get that back. There is someone good in this world for all of us…we just need to open up and see that. These men are not what dreams are made of. They are our worst nightmares! Stay strong, do little things each day to improve how you feel. I am so glad that I found this site and for all those who have offered advice…THANKS!
I am so in awe of all of you who are maintaining NC when
A) the ACs concerned are still calling/texting you and
B) you have to see them because of work etc
This isn’t the case for me, but I still find it hard. I started a long email to him just this morning which I ended up just printing off and putting in my journal. I didn’t send it, what’s the point? I still feel completely used by him, and all this despite me not sleeping with him.
I find it hard when I have to drive round the roads we used to go on when I was learning, and even when parking all I hear in my head is the ACs voice in my head making suggestive comments while I steer! It never goes away. It’s like he gets in the car with me every time I do, and we both have the same cars as well, same make and colour (I had mine since before I passed, and part of the reason I stuck with him so long was because we had the same car.)
It’s almost like my competence as a person, skill as a driver, attractiveness as a woman and worth is all tied up in the opinion of this complete shite of a man who was prepared to keep me as a weekly sh*g behind his partner’s back supposedly ‘for my good’. Like he was doing me this huge favour. And because I wouldn’t play ball his way it’s like he’s invited me round to play, waited for me to go round and opened the door for the express purpose of slamming it in my face again.
The logical me sees all of it for what it is. He’s a manipulative user. He only ‘cared’ when it worked for him, when it looked like he might be able convince me to sleep with him. When he tried everything he knew and still I wasn’t giving it up, he couldn’t just walk and wish me well, he had to dig the knife in and twist it first.
So all I’m left with is a knowledge of how angry he is with me because I was unable to give him what he wanted. I do realise that he would have been an assclown to me anyway and that I have dodged a bullet here but it still hurts. I think the hurt is proportional to the heart investment.
And I think I am still invested, not so much in him, but the shock of how long I let him disrespect me, my values, my boundaries before I said ‘enough now’. And I didn’t even say it in the end. He did. And I should have enough dignity to step over him and never look back because he was never even my friend, and could never be.
But I still want him to want me, because the sweet and funny charming person he first presented himself to be…that’s who I still can’t quite believe doesn’t really exist. This callous and cold individual who has presented so much overwhelming evidence to me that ‘this is who I really am’ and I still can’t quite bring myself to accept this as true, although I am getting better and trying to put out of my head what he thinks.
I did 3 weeks NC, broke it and have begun again, it’s 8 days now.
Sorry for the long post, I needed to get this out. It feels like I went to the fair, paid my money for what I thought was going to be an amazing prize and all it is is a cheap bit of tat. The stall owner has disappeared and It’s slowly dawning on me that I’ve been conned and won’t be getting a refund.
Thanks everyone, if not for this site, I would have contacted him today. Thanks so much.
@notmeanttobe on MSN they can’t see if you have deleted them, it’s not like Facebook. He is blocked so he can’t see you are there – delete him too 🙂 It REALLY helps after a while … are you sure you really believe it might cause bad blood? I can say from my experience that in the past I wanted to be sure I could see him.
Another gem from the little darling was complaining that I was not around and that it was “easier” when I was. Easier on whom? Not on me, in the middle of the night!
I said that I had been on MSN but he was never there – I know he was online from subsequent bull about this (possibly fictional) woman he had never told me about from 15 years ago who he’d never really lost feelings for and who had contacted him out of the blue (again, bull, or even if she DID then he was scenting fresh Narcissistic Supply). So he was on chatting to her … I had already limited contactability and visibility for him to MSN in order to free associations in other places from him. Know what he said?
“Well, there’s only you and one other person on MSN so I don’t open it”.
Nuff said.
@Eyes wide open – you check your phone 100 times per day – thank you for telling me that, as I actually check for messages from him *way* more than the 10 times per day I wrote about, but felt ashamed to admit it! I think I am like you, and my heart has not caught up with my head, and I know what you mean about that vacuum – that’s why I have been on this site so much in the last couple of weeks! I will do as you suggested and get through one day at a time – you’re right, we shouldn’t let them have this power over us. I hope you are able to get a better sleep tonight.
@devasted – all the best to you as you re-start NC at work. I can’t imagine what that would be like. I agree, they go back to living their lives while we are agonizing over them – ugh!
@mel – “And I think I am still invested, not so much in him, but the shock of how long I let him disrespect me, my values, my boundaries before I said ‘enough now’.†I can fully relate to this. Hey, what year is your car? Maybe time to get a new (completely different) one? Good for you for getting right back on NC – 8 days is a good start! (I am on day 10).
@Butterfly – thanks for the heads-up about MSN. I have never deleted anyone as a contact before, so didn’t know they couldn’t tell. But yes, I think he would be really ticked off if he knew I deleted him. I still don’t feel quite ready to do that – maybe after another week or two, but I’ll still use the “block†function! So did your EUM block you on MSN then, while he was chatting to the OW? Or was he online, and you could see him but he couldn’t see you? I didn’t quite get that part.
Thanks again everyone!! I am going to force myself to do some housework now, instead of obsessing about *him*
hi not meant to be
My car was a gift to me for my birthday. I’ve only had it 8 months. It was as a result of one of those ‘so if you had your own car what would you drive’ conversations and i was like ‘oh I love driving my instructor’s car it’s sooo nice to drive etc’ and so that was the car I was given as a present which at the time was so lovely (and the thought still is) but now kinda feels a bit weird. The colour thing was total fluke, but again, it’s the memory of him that has tainted what would otherwise be an amazing gift. I feel I’ll have to let a decent amount of time go by before I trade her in, so as not to offend the givers!
And I love driving and having my license feels amazing but I feel like he has forever tainted the experience for me and it hurts all teh more because he knew how much it meant to me to get my licence (long story but I had not been well before and had been unable to drive for a long time for medical reasons).
I know it will get better. Just venting really. Thanks for listening and to everyone for offering advice.
“I have no expectations any more, as I have learned that it is a fantasy of mine that he will come crawling back a changed man.”
Oh lord sister, time after time I have wished, hoped and prayed for this very thing, and a few times it has actually happened (or so I thought) – but as expected it did not last long before he was subtly emotionally abusing me so that I would comply with his needs and be afraid to ever leave him. I STILL, after fully accepting that this man is INCAPABLE of giving me, or any woman for that matter, the basic requirements for a mutually supportive and caring relationship, have some fantasy that triggers when my mind shuts off or gets lazy that he will, at the very least, come crawling back, realizing what a gem I am. It is such a deeply satisfying fantasy, maybe it is helpful in healing and building my feelings of worth – as that is one of the functions of fantasy. Maybe I’ll choose to believe that he is pining over me this very moment, what a good person I am, how stupid he is and how much he misses me! Because the motha should be! 😉 But he knows what a sh*t he’s been and therefore can’t make contact, and knows that I wouldn’t answer his f*ing call or text anyway! I don’t know what he’s doing (NC), might as well decide that he’s doing something that benefits me. Cuz whatever I choose to believe, that’s reality. One of these days, whether it’s in 5 minutes or 5 years, that guy will look back and wonder, and wish you were still around. Cuz honey, when it comes down to it, YOU left HIM! You did!
Planet Jane
The hard thing now for me is that last Thursday night he showed up at my home to talk. He explained that I was the most phenominal women he had ever met, he loved me and that he was willing to let go of all the women “friends” that he has. That I was way too good for him, that he didn’t deserve me, and that he had nothing to offer me (all of which are 100% true). I wanted to hear those words from him for so long, and the funny thing is, I wasn’t sure I caould believe any of it. While he was even crying at one point because I accidentially sent him an email about him that was supposed to go to someone else. he said he never knew that I felt that way about him, and that the raw emotion was unreal…of course it was it was meant for someone else. I want to believe him more then anything, but I need to ignore it all, and get on with my life. I don’t think that a few kind words could be enough to erase all the hurt, tears, lies and mis trust over the past 5 months since we broke up. I loved this man with everything I had in me. Did nothing to wrong him and he chose to walk away to “do him” for awhile. Whatever! I did feel a little validated, but it seems that its just not enough. Actions do speak louder then words. You are right because I do think that he will look back someday and realize what he left. I will guarantee, he will NEVER find another women as amazing as me who was willing to put up with his bullsh**.
@notmeanttobe: I have no idea. I personally doubt that there was another woman in the classic sense, I don’t trust him an inch – he is a classic narcissist of the somatic variety and there have been so many other issues at the time that who the hell knows – more than likely it was NOT at the same time as me due to time zones. I’m finding myself disinclined to talk about him much here really (what a great feeling) – I’ve said before about him, he owns 14 guitars and can’t play a whole song. So girls, if you are involved with an ugly guy (I am admitting he is!!!) with a great sense of humour but terrible boundary issues and 14 guitars RUN!!!!!!
LOL
@devastated – time for some tough love here for your last sentence. I went through this stage too, heavily. Truth is that he might well find someone as amazing as you and you know what? He’ll do the same to them. He’ll turn them from a beautiful giving loving equal into someone desperate even for the crumbs. “Actions speak louder than words” is the very phrase of my last text to him which I wished I had not sent because I felt guilty that I was “being horrible” … heed your own words and remember that the sun does not revolve around this man – he is delusional and thinks that it does and YOU have had a lucky escape even if it hurts like hell now. x
butterfly
yes, you are correct. but I like to think that I am too good for him. My last text to him was pretty much the same as yours. I ended it with time for me to let go. I feel so hurt and I ache inside, but honestly, the one thing I have learned to do in the past few days is when I feel like sitting and just thinking about us…I hurry up and think of a terrible time or a time that he made me cry….this helps. I do admit that my word revolved around him and I ignored everyone and everything else. I have slowly begun the process of getting MY life back. He is very delusional with a huge ego. I’m sure my not talking to him will not effect him, but I sure hope in some small way it does.
It’s still investment sweetheart, but that too will pass. I am left wishing I’d said explicitly that anything from him would be deleted unread, then I’d not be wondering what he said in those two mails which were deleted as per the mail rule I set up but left a trace in the spam filter. What if they were the magic words, what if he had come to his senses?
They would have been smoke and mirrors, flimflam or something else designed to keep me sweet and docile. Well I am not docile, never was, and it bothers me that it BOTHERS me, but compared to the past this is nada 🙂
Mel, Not Meant to Be, Butterfly, Eyes Wide Open – all of you:
Reading your posts is like me writing how I feel. The purgatory statement really hits it!!! All I could think is that my soul was destroyed, shattered into a million pieces. I am 6 months NC! My friends are proud of me and I can’t believe I actually have made it. But, I did it for the sake of my shattered self esteem and dignity. My AC did send me two lame texts after he was horrible to me (see above), but they were so uncaring, unapologetic, etc., I was insulted, and didn’t even respond to him. Now, I know he is mad at ME!!!!! And probably a bit surprised that I didn’t come crawling trying to get him back again… I have had serious issues and problems that have resulted from my AC breakup: I was and sometimes still am a walking zombie, the day can go by and I have done laundry or some menial tasks, but was unable to pay bills, work, or do anything else. This has gone on for pretty much the whole 6 months. I lost weight, didn’t eat, didn’t sleep, cried all the time, stared out my window watching my AC walk to OW’s house or see if OW was walking to his house (since my AC lives two doors down and I have to see him on a daily basis which is ungodly torture no one should have to endure), crying, obsessing, checking his daughter’s myspace page for any info, trying to check his cell phone bill online to see who he was texting, hiding my car around the street to see if I could catch him with OW, following OW to see if she was meeting my AC, etc. I lost a major work contract because I couldn’t concentrate to do my work. I don ‘t even know who I am anymore. I am totally opposite of this person I have become. I have a higher education, am a professional, had average self-esteem, outgoing, didn’t take people’s shit, funny, sensible, etc. I am trying to get ME back right now. So, yes, it is “normal” to paralyzed and incapacitated. My story is a bit complicated, and is posted in full on other blogs and some up above, but I feel I was completely violated, devastated, destroyed, and it is hard to believe that someone else felt paralyzed and like they were in purgatory. I felt so alone and still feel a sense of hopelessness. After the first month, my best friend (who has been my literal life line), helped me decide to get on an anti-depressant, which I am still unsure if it is really working, but it did help me stop crying all the time….
To MEL: I feel that our situations were VERY similar, because your posts sound like what I have been going through. Somehow everything I was was tied up in the asshole’s opinion of ME or his response to me and my request to be treated and valued like I deserved. Thank GOD you didn’t give him what he wanted, you would have to live with that too and for me, that is the most unbearable thing to live with because I trusted him and he took everything that is sacred to me. My AC was all about him, his needs, his desires, his moods period. If he was having a bad day or a problem, he would literally “cut off communication with me” when he felt like for weeks at a time, no explanation, no care for my feelings and needs, nothing. The fake person I fell in love with is not the REAL person, same as your case. And unfortunately that is what is so hard to accept, because we KNOW they are IN THERE. But that is not who they really are. They are not left with the aftermath of destruction, we are. And I have been hoping and praying that he would contact me and tell me he still wanted ME, because I thought that only HE could restore the dignity I felt he took away from me. DO NOT CONTACT HIM. HE IS A TERRIBLE VILE PERSON TOO.
NOT MEANT TO BE: I really feel for you too. I wish I had only been paralyzed for the first couple weeks and not months. I truly believe that like it was said wonderfully, it is part of your DNA. I loved this man, he was the air that I breathed. I fully believe that if I didn’t have to see him every day, and with his new OW, I would be worlds better. I too believe that he is incapable of loving me, OW, or anyone else but himself. Any human that can treat someone else so terribly and sleep well at night is the devil himself.
Oh and by the way, this assclown only wanted to have a relationship by text. He saw me in person for a few times but only in small time increments, plans never materialized, promises were never kept. He was hard to communicate with any way and throw in that I had to do it by text, no calls, in person communications, etc., really killed us. I griped about the lack of in person contact, but he always had an excuse. I told him we can’t build a relationship by texting. I realize now that I was just a fun supplement to his life in progress. I am the one that was left in the wake and he never looked back, leaving me unable to look forward. I am getting better day by day thanks to this site and good friends. My “habit” should I say has been keeping tabs on his house, if he is home, sitting outside, if OW is home, if she is down at his house, etc. And I am tired of being the one watching his life keep going like he doesn’t have a care in the world, so thanks to all the great advice, I am trying to stop myself from looking period. He has seen me almost every day for the last 6 months and he has still not felt “the need, the guilt, or the desire” to contact me (which has been completely devastating to me), if even to offer an apology for his behavior towards to me the last time we talked. It is time to stop hoping.
Miserable love, I certainly know where you are coming from…you are going through pure grief, it’s as if someone so dear to you has died and you have to watch their ghost walking through your life..you can’t and are not allowed to touch them, they don’t see you. My heart goes out to you. There is an old ritual, not sure where it comes from (I like to visual stuff to help me move things around). It sais something like…hang you ghost of your past on a nail above your door, as a remembrance of the a part of your life that was and see the lessons in them that you take into the future. I think it’s time for you to try to see the lessons this man has given you. you like so many of us have abandonment issues, this is very deep father stuff. Are you seeing a therapist?? Don’t for one second be hard on yourself, you need love and caring from yourself to help you get to the next level. I’m glad to hear you say it’s time to give up the hope. This man does not deserve your hope he is garbage, and yes he is the evil one. Stay clear, heal and get strong. Feel sorry for this ow, she is either the same make as him (no emotions) or she will be living in her own private hell soon.
take care
Miserable Love de-lightedtobefree Butterfly, Eyes Wide Open et al
I can relate to the grief process. I too for 6 weeks could barely function beyond the basics. I lost work as well as I could not concentrate and could not make new calls to market myself to new clients. I was so down on myself I lost all confidence. I’ve only just started to catch up now to be honest.
The father stuff. Yes you are spot on with that. The big part of my attraction to the AC was formed listening to him TALK about how much he adored his daughter, and about what an amazing guy he was to his partner. How he was there for her and relieved her stress etc etc.
when he spoke about his daughter i used to tear up because I had not had that closeness and feeling of safety in my relationship with my father. So I was attracted to that I guess. Maybe I wanted him to fix the damage my father had inflicted on me, at some level.
You know what,I can’t believe that for 3 years most of our relationship was also through emails and later just texts.And that I accepted that as “normal”.When we did get together it was great,but we lived so far from each other.Whenever it took effort for him to see me,often it didn’t happen.He would say he never liked “to committ himself too far in advance” to his plans (RED FLAG..missed by me) or account for his whereabouts.What interests me is how the OW will fit in here?Will she not ever ask him where he is/was etc(even out of interest)because she won’t want to upset him,or maybe she won’t care,or now that she has her grip firmly on him,will she be checking up on him constantly,and how will he respond to that…?
One day I found out purely by accident(a few months after the event) he had been in my area and hadn’t let me know.When I asked him about this,he blew a fuse,going on that I was trying to control him,he doesn’t have to account to me where he is etc etc.I was so shocked at his reaction,I of course did the only thing I knew how to do…apologise for my behaviour(I’m cringing as I write this!!).Of course,my punishment was a lengthy silence from him.
The texting relationship really puts the AC in control,and reduces us to jibbering idiots.Like many of you,I am a competent professional,respected by my colleagues and “normal” friends.Yet he managed to stamp on me and make me doubt myself..and all because I gave him the power to do it.
When he initially told me about the OW and her being the one he is going to marry,it was through text.When I tried to call him to talk,he rejected my call,and sent me a text saying we would talk sometime,but he felt uncomfortable,so let’s just talk though texts till another time.We did talk eventually,but the final “goodbye for good” was through text.Not even email where atleast a bit more could be said..
It’s good to write this and read what I’ve written.Just empowers me a bit more to realise that I’m now on a path of no return-how could I look back now?And I don’t want to.
@ eyesewideopen
yikes!!! all of that sounds so familiar with my EUM! jesus crackers…how many of this type of guy are out there? :S
i know what you mean about cringing when looking back too… i actually kept a couple of IM chats when we were going out… still under the delusions at the time, i marked them to myself as “little reminders” of what i guess i suspected was d-bag behaviour but i didn’t want to acknowledge…… NOW i read them and go “whoa whoa whoa, what the!? arghhh look at me jibber on there! ughhhhhh LAME”
it’s absolutely maddening to be caught in the simultaneity of knowing how much of a waste-of-space a$$ somebody is, and also still being emotionally obsessed/devoted/submitted to that same person.
just maddening!!
though…. i shudder to think where i would be if i didn’t have that knowingness that space, objectivity and this website have given me…..
Thank you all for sharing your feelings and experiences, and letting me know I am not alone in my lack of motivation to do much of anything, and in wanting SO much to hear from *him*, but also wanting badly NOT to hear from him so I can continue NC. I haven’t even reached the 2 week mark yet, but I remember that particular time period was the worst when quitting smoking so I hoped this would be similar, but it sounds like I may be in for a longer rough ride according to some of you. *sigh*.
There are so many similarities in our situations, it’s creepy. I also had an almost exclusively email/IM relationship, and I saw him about once a month (we live 2 hours away from each other), but my AC is a MM, which I think is different from most of you.
(BTW, Eyes wide open, I have also apologised for behaviour that *he* perceived as needy/controlling but which was just really asking for normal communication. I also cringe when I think of those times, but you’re right, even tho we are competent professionals, we give THEM the power. I can’t believe your EUM told you about his plans to marry the OW thru text tho – what a coward!)
So anyway, I am on day 11 NC, and I will keep telling myself things like – “he’s not that bad, and now has asked to be friends (in his email he sent on NC day 4 which I didn’t answer) – would that really be so bad?†We have to work together at conferences anyway (we are in the same line of work, different cities – next conference is next month). I have read the posts from NML on staying friends with an AC so I’m thinking she would say “Noâ€, but I don’t feel quite as physically attracted to him any more (although he does appear in certain fantasies I have), and I am thinking it may be possible if we just talk about work things and a hobby that we share. I am SOOOOOOO tempted to talk to him, even though I *know* I was just a supplement to his life and he is married to someone else. From NML’s post above, I know I am projecting my feelings onto him, and that it is doubtful he is going through this major grief reaction. I am tempted to call my brother (who works for him) and see how the AC is doing, something I haven’t done since we broke up.
Oh my goodness, listen to me. I am going crazy!!! I will focus on work today, re-read the posts on staying friends with an AC, and I think I’ll get myself a therapist!!! Like many of you, I know I have father and abandonment issues that I need to work on. None of my friends or family knows I’m going through this mess. Good luck and *hugs* to all of you and thanks again for the support – it means so much to me as we go through this hellish situation together.
I have not been on in a few days and just read all the posts in one go and there were a few things that struck me… I am currently trying to see similarities between my last two exes to establish a pattern of what attracts me to these men and I realize I do not have a bench mark of a healthy relationship, to tell what is not “normal” behaviour when I meet these guys.
So here are a few things I saw everyone else say and I wanted to see if we all felt the same:
1) They seem to talk about us sexually a lot. I found this a lot too… and I thought this was normal and that it was just normal for your guy to be attracted to you… but I felt it was the only compliment I ever got and when I asked about “me” and why they were with me… they seemed unable to say so.
2) When we put a question to them they seem to turn it around on us. My ex liked to pick at my word choice, my poor communication and didn’t listen to the content. He had me so turned around I felt I was a poor communicator, because I do tend to get defensive and my attachment issues are associated with argumentative behaviour etc. But I would get angrier because he avoide the content of what I was saying, and seemed to have arguments about why he should not even listen to me speak.
3) They come on really strong, really quickly. I always thought I had just met “the one” that this guy really dug me because now when I meet guys it seems so tough and I wonder how it didn’t work with this guy who was head over heals for me instantly… but wonder if that’s because it was never real.
4) They talk about themselves A LOT and don’t seem to ask about questions of substance pertaining to your life. Our first date was allllll about him. I stupidly thought he just wanted to open up.
5) They all have tails of sorrow and some women broke their heart… they were the victim.
This covers it for now… anyone else recognize the SAME behaviour?
@Devastated, Not Meant to Be, Miserable Love, Eyes Wide Open, Mel
I thought I was the only one checking emails constantly throughout the day looking for a message. Good to see I am not alone-I am getting better. I have gotten a new email address, and have forwarded those emails from those I want to keep hearing from to my new email address.
In addition, I thought I was the only one who has felt like doing absolutely nothing during the last two months. It seems the only thing I can manage to do is knit-the repetition of making those stitches is comforting to me, and keeps me away from eating things that I should not eat. If I am working on a new pattern, I have to concentrate on the pattern, not what a mess my life has been for the past 2 months, and how I have allowed this person to have such control over me. In the meantime, I can’t seem to concentrate on much at all, have no energy to anything except put one foot in front of the other. I am so disgusted that every once of common sense I have seems to have left me!!
I don’t have father issues (I had a wonderful dad) and I remember him saying in the beginning of our relationship that he usually did not want to have relationships where women had a bad or no relationship with their fathers-these women did not know how to relate positively to men. Well, now I wonder about his relationship with his father (he said his parents did not have a good marriage-mine did) did he acquire his poor relationship communication skills from his father? In the future, that will be another “red flag” for me-pay attention to the relationship of the parents of the person with whom you are entering a serious relationship. Even for those non-serious relationships, it might still be an indication of how that person will view and treat you.
I spent yesterday composing a “final” email to my guy-telling him that since he has failed to provide me with some kind of rational explanation of what the real problem is (after waiting for 2 months for him to provide this) that I am getting off this “emotional roller coaster” and he should do the same. I have put in a line which says that if what I believe is not true, then he must contact me in a way that is not email or a text message. I have not sent this message yet-I know that I should, but I just can’t click the send button yet. I am debating whether or not to include the part about my wrong assumptions and to contact me by phone or in person-instead of just ending the message with “Have a good life” with no opportunity for interpretation that I am willing to continue this relationship. I know what I have to do-just can’t do it yet.
@ Eyes Wide Open – I agree with you about texting putting ACs in control. While other people may disagree, I am firm in my belief that if the primary communication mode with the other party is text and email-run the other way. To me, this is a signal that the person either has major emotional issues or has never learned to communicate in any other way (for someone who is 22-that may be the case-I am 40+) and will have major intimacy issues. In the future, I am going to reserve texting for things like confirmation of plans, “Have a good day” messages, etc.
Penny– You certainly are not alone and ruminating and thinking entirely about this guy… unfortunately that is a common behaviour among women who are attracted to these men. Think about what you are really worrying about. I realize that I do not want this man, but fear he will find love and happiness before I do… which means I somehow will have been the problem.
Do you hear yourself say you are “worried” or “afraid” a lot? I think we worry and fear a lot because it’s a control issue, we have lost control over this relationship, these guys take it from us… and we sit and worry because it allows us to continue to have control. By picking up and moving on it’s like we are giving in to these guys and the decision they made for us.
Also, be careful by sending that email… you may tell yourself you are not expecting a reply but I feel that deep down you may be. And if he does reply, it may just be something more hurtful. These guys generally have very limited emotional depth, so your words are unlikely to stir him… and will leave you, possibly, feeling more silly for having taken the time to write it to him and to give him more power over you. I took two months before I engaged with my ex again and told him how I felt. I thought it would be liberating to take my time, think about what I wanted to say… you know what he said “are you still going on about this?” … he thought I was an idiot because 2 months later I was still thinking about it.
I have become comfortable with my choice because I hvae feelings, there is not time limit on getting over someone, and I know my strong feelings towards him have more to do with the underlying hurt of being rejected, the fact that I thought he was going to be the one and so let me down… and it’s not really about my still being in love with him. I do not need to justify myself to him. I keep wanting too but realize with these guys, often the more you say the deeper you get and it never comes out right and then when they turn it around on you, or say nothing at all… you feel silly and want to follow up with more talk to defend your embarrassment. It is never ending! Silence is the greatest form of control. These guys have seen us talk talk talk for months and when we finally stop talking it’s like wait a second where did she go? They see us as not being able to defend ourselves to them, engage etc. I have finally started flat out ignoring my ex, I do not smile, wave, say hello and certainly do not engage in the idle chit chat we did most mornings at work. I feel petty at times, but it sends the message I need to. It’s 2 months too late and now I look angry and bitter… but I also am pulling myself out of the fire. Everytime I spoke with him I felt belittled and silly, I couldn’t be strong so now I am.
What do you really hope to gain from this email? Likely what you want to say you have said, or it will fall on deaf ears regardless. He is not goign to appreciate it, or suddenly go “wow look at her standing up for herself.” Truly standing up for you is about disengaging entirely, turning the focus back on you and realizing that if you are ok with you, you do not need to send emails to someone telling them how they should have behaved towards you. Sorry if that’s harsh… but likely if you are like the rest of the women on here chances are you have spent months with this guy telling him how he “should” behave. Your email will likely just anger him.
I hope this helps… I just dont’ want to see you send that and then 48 hours later when he does not respond or says something mean you find yourself even further down than you thought possible, having wasted your breath on him. You may get more angry and then send something even worse.
@dazedandconfused
Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes! I think you have done a great job at picking out some of the themes we have been talking about re: our EUM’s.
For myself:
1) He could talk about many physical attributes (and things like my passion) that he appreciated, but when I asked him what “personal†qualities he liked, he finally came up with “caring†and “patientâ€. I recently wondered if he was saying he liked how similar I am to a “doormat†as NML says – as care and patience really are required when dealing with their AC behaviours!!! Once, I told him I felt like a booty call, and he replied with “no, not at all – we are just a couple with strong desire†Yeah, right!!!
2) He often turned questions around on me, or tried to make it sound like he was doing things for my own good, or said something lame like “I don’t know what you’re looking forâ€
3) Yes, he came on very strong, very quickly, hinted that I was “the best thing that ever happened to himâ€, that he “couldn’t live without meâ€. Sent email after email, chatted online almost every night, then 3 months in, a big drop in communication. Got better for a while if I called him on it, then back to disappointingly infrequent communication.
4) Talked about himself and his problems all the time. Oh sure, he would ask me about my day, but when I told him, he didn’t really follow up on anything or ask for further details, just went back to talking about himself.
5) Big tale of sorrow for my guy – his mother died when he was young, which he obviously couldn’t help, but he brought it up a lot. And several women ‘broke his heart†by breaking up with him and “shutting him out of their livesâ€. Maybe he had others do the NC thing on him before me!!!
Great points dazedandconfused. And, writing these out have helped me to resolve to keep NC and maybe not toy with the idea of being his friend. Who wants a friend that always talks about themselves, anyway?
@Penny – not sure why you are sending this email? Are you in NC? (I thought you were, but I may have misunderstood) Do you feel you need closure? If so, you may want to re-read NML’s post about NC being a way to bring closure without having the “breakup momentâ€. Although, since you were planning to marry the man, I can certainly understand why you would want closure!
@Not Meant To Be – Well I do understand that sometimes we must work to give ourselves closure, so this was my way of doing that. My initial intention was to send the email and that would be have been my last contact-I have no interest in “being friends” or maintaining any type of “friendly” communication. Initially I just wanted to tell him this was it for me-have a good life. Yes-I am in NC-3 days and counting. However, I wanted this email to be (for me) an attempt to “regain my power” telling him that I was moving on-even if he was still considering what to do about the relationship. Maybe the closure for me will need to be in the unsent email.
@Dazed and Confused-you may have a point about actually hoping for a response that would never come. I am taking your point about really standing up for yourself is disengaging entirely. I have to remember that not everyone (especially men) thinks like I do (or other women) do-about the importance of communicating feelings (especially to people that don’t seem to have any) with a civilized ending. No, I did not take your words as harsh, just true. Thank you.
I am not sending the email-will continue with NC. Will not sign on to that email address-I have already eliminated the automatic sign in when I go to that site.
Not meant to be and Penny… the other thing of interest I find is that these men did have troubling childhoods. I have never wanted to label someone but good relationships are often about modelling. My last two exes had absent, alcoholic fathers and very dependent mothers. What model do these men have for being good husbands or for being with a strong woman?
My ex seemed very caring of his mother, but that also meant that he knew how to do things for her but also there is resentment of these women who similarly need emotional support. I think a lot of it is tied in to these issues. And if you are a strong woman yourself, well what experience do they have in being with a woman who does anything but praises him 24/7?
I would suggest reading “women who love too much.” I am not a fan of self help books but this is a good one for women who have dating patterns. If you constantly find yourself in a relationship with men who need “fixing” this book is for you.
And Penny, I too have a great relationship with my dad… but what is your relationship like with your mother?
Mel-I was in the exact situation as you with my ex-EUM. He and I currently not only work for the same company, but also in the same department. For a good 1 1/2 years, he’d flirt with me, complement me, and use his charm to get me to fall into his trap. Although he has a lot of baggage in his life (divorced before, a child, and a crazy ex-girlfriend with whom he has the child with), I chose to downplay it because he made me feel good emotionally. It was apparent that we were extremely attracted to one another, but for him I realized in the end it was physical, but for me, it was both emotional and physical. When I told him right when we were about to have sex that I wasn’t ready because I wasn’t sure where he was at emotionally, the next day and from then on, he was acting weird toward me. I emailed him about this and he basically told me that I was expecting more than he was prepared to give and that maybe it was best if we put some distance between us to prevent any emotional disappointment. I was so hurt. I cried for weeks. Not only that I had realized that during the time I was with him, I pushed all my friends and family away.
It’s been really hard having to go to work everyday and see him, but I try to play it off as this whole situation hasn’t phased me. I try to keep my chin up, act professional, and avoid talking to him, unless it is work-related. Some days are worse than others and I think about finding another job. But then most days I say to myself, “Why would I change my job that I love to avoid someone that treated me like s**t. He was the one that had problems.”
Mel-like you, I am SO fortunate that I didn’t make the mistake of getting initmate on that next level with my ex-EUM. As hurt as I still am, I know that it would have been a lot worse had I let him take me physically.
@dazedandconfused
Yes, my EUM had a troubling childhood with a father who was very much into his work, and a series of step-mothers who did not seem to boost his self esteem. His sisters seemed to give him lots of praise though.
I plan to read Women who Love too Much – will try to buy it today, in fact as many have mentioned how good it is. Thanks for the suggestion.
hey penny!
speaking from experience – i wouldn’t send the e-mail. i did this a few times. you will not get the response you are looking for. either they will not respond – HORRIBLE or they will turn it around on you. NC says everything without saying anything at all – i read it somewhere & carry it wherever i go. good luck. you will feel better – it takes time. i never thought i would & now i am glad he is out of my life. what a waste of time he was. i NEVER thought i would be able to say it. yes, the rejection hurts. but, like my brother said(he didn’t like him – only met him twice -should have been a sign). “why are you upset about losing a loser.” i really thought i loved this man, too. it should NEVER be that difficult. he turned everything around on me – i believed it for the longest time. know – looking back from a distance – yikes – what a silly girl. you are too good to be bothered by the AC – keep telling yourself that until you believe it.
@Dazed and Confused-Both my parents are deceased, but I actually had a loving childhood, and two very good parents. My parents had a good marriage and provided an excellent example of what a good marriage could be. My dad died first, and my mom eventually came to live with me, and our relationship was a good one. My mom was more proud of her children than anything else. I wish my mom were still here and I could talk to her about this. She always stressed to me that you can not change a man-what he is is what he will be. However, your question makes me think of something else. My brother, raised in the same household as I, with the same two parents seems to have trouble connecting emotionally. I think a huge cause for this was his marriage-he was married to an UE woman, and I really think this has scarred him permanently. (She did a real number on him.) I have seen him pass over women that were interested in him (nice, intelligent women) for those that that he would never connect emotionally.
I get the feeling that my guy was taught to be emotionally connected by his dad. I don’t think he is really a bad guy (I am NOT excusing his behavior towards me) I just don’t think he has the emotional capacity to connect appropriately. That is something that only therapy can heal. I am not a therapist.
In my earlier post, I meant to say “taught to be emotionally disconnected” by his father. Interesting that he has a career where he must disconnect himself emotionally to do his job.
I am going to print out the NC rules-paste them above my PC.
@dazedandconfused
your list is spot on, it’s like you’ve crystalised the attributes of these guys and hopefully any new people reading this will see these as red flags for the future. I know I certainly will.
The AC had a terrible relationship with his father. He once said to me ‘my father used intimidation and manipulation to rule the household and was like that until one day I stood up to him and saw for myself how weak he really was. that was such a turning point for me in our relationship. After I stood up to him I actually grew to understand him a lot better actually. But i also realized that in fact, he was not a nice man!’
This conversation came back to me the other day and I smiled to myself as I realised in that very moment that the AC was describing HIMSELF (although he would be furious if i ever told him that…he said he has dedicated his life to being the opposite of his father. and whilst he may not be physically abusive, he certainly makes up for it in emotional abuse.
@Erica “a child, and a crazy ex-girlfriend with whom he has the child with”
Do you know the ex girlfriend? The AC was awful about his daughter’s mother can actually called her ‘psycho b*tch ‘ the first day i met him. I think I only discovered her real name after i’d known him 6 months. He’s probably calling me the same now i imagine.
He had a sob story about how she’d trapped him by getting pregnant etc and all manner of stories about how awful she is. Well I’ll never know will I, but it does make you wonder.
Am I alone though in my thoughts that while I probably will nip any future situations like this in the bud with ACs/EUMs should they ever cross my path again, I deep down want the sting they will feel at being put in their place by the stronger, more (self) loving woman I will become to hit the AC in the balls at the same time! 😉
@Mel
No, I do not know the ex-gf. I only hear the crazy things she does to him to make him stay away from the child. He has also called her psycho too. I discovered her name a few months after getting to know ex-EUM. He has never called her by her real name…just “Baby Mama”. Funny thing is he says all these terrible things that she has done to him, yet I am pretty sure he’d drop everything (including me, had we still been together) to be back with her in a heartbeat.
@Erica
I gotta say, at first I felt sorry for the AC when he told me about his baby mother. But I do wonder now whether there is more to the story than he let on. I would love to hear her side of the story that’s for sure.
I think they do this ‘my ex is a psycho’ line on purpose. It sets us up to think ‘oh I’d NEVER do that to him/react like that’ etc. And then when they pull their crazymaking behaviour because we’ve already been conditioned not to ‘behave like the psycho ex’ we deny our feelings, fall into line with the shite they throw at us and yes, often DO behave in ways that would make them call us psycho!
Maybe the ACs ex is crazy, who knows? All I know is that I will reserve my judgement until I hear her side of the story because I know for a fact that the AC if he ever does refer to me in any coversations with his latest victims, will not be speaking with any affection whatsoever.
Ladies,
I love this post. I have a friend who thinks that if he would just contact her that it would make her feel better. I told her that my experience did just the opposite. After a bit over a year of NC, he contacted me. What it did was make me sick to my stomach. Everything that I had done (chase him, no bounderies, go ahead and use me as a doormat, etc.), came flooding back to me and it literally made me sick. I knew the only reason he contacted me was because there was NO ONE else. I tend to be (or can tend to be) a bit harsh to someone who has treated me badly. I feel this way; if this AC does not appreciate me for me, it is his loss, NOT mine. If someone does not want to be with me, my feeling is their loss, not mine. I know it sounds a little egotistical, but if I don’t value me, who the heck will? I really don’t care if these AC see me as being needy, gees, what’s wrong with you. In my book, what they think is so not important. Please, focus on the most important person in the world;you. Don’t get a big head, don’t hurt someone else, but don’t take cr*p from someone you think you might want to be with. The cost is way too high for you to pay.
@Mel and @txwoman
I just wanted to thank you both for your words of wisdom. It’s things like this that help me to survive everyday. Every night before I go to bed and every morning before I go to work, I come to this site for positive thoughts before I have to face the AC at work.
@Mel-I completely agree with you…I initially felt bad for him with the Baby Mama drama, but I’ve never heard the flipside-the ex-girlfriend’s story. I guess I’ll never know.
Tonight, I had a date and at the end of the night, we both ended up talking about our ex’s and found that we were in the same predicament: we’re both not completely over them. My date was really sweet, but there weren’t any sparks on my end.
On my way home from the restaurant, I kind of broke down and cried thinking about the AC. I always try really hard to think about how the negative in the relationship outweighed the positive, but sometimes it doesn’t always happen. I want so badly to get over him because I know that he definitely isn’t thinking about me. What still gets me is why he was ballsy enough to pursue someone who not only worked in the same company but same department when in the long run he wasn’t even wanting a real relationship. As I mentioned before, I have a sneaking suspicion he is hooking up with someone else in a different department. If I get confirmation on this, I will be sure to warn her about him.
@txwoman-thanks for the positive reinforcement. I have to continue to remind myself that I am a good person with a good heart and have a lot to offer a guy who is deserving of my love. I did nothing wrong in this relationship (unless you call listening to his problems and making the effort to ask him to hang out a bad thing).
@dazedandconfused – oh yeah to all 5 questions and all 5 points except in his case he used to just tell me that he was “cooler” than me etc. Maybe he was but I don’t see it 🙂 He wouldn’t have dared pick me up on use of language or logic!
Looking back there were many subtle digs and I find it easiest just to believe that EVERYTHING he said was a lie and one massive ego stroke/long long belt of narcissistic supply. That is the ONLY thing which makes sense.
Thank you NML for this website!!! I know I am not alone.
One time when we broke up, I tried to be an adult about the situation and agreed to be friends. Don’t ever do this! It will hurt you worse than if he left you altogether. Don’t get me wrong, some couples can be friends after it’s over…but those are healthy relationships. You cannot do this with an EUM/AC. They are selfish, insecure & sick. The whole time I was trying to have a friendship with him…He kept reiterating to me that he wasn’t my boyfriend anymore. I asked him why he had to keep saying that to me when I already knew that and he said it’s because he could “feel” that I wanted us to be a couple again. WTF?! Then he would make references about trips he was going to go on with his friends, made statements about how other women looked and anything else he could bring up to make me feel bad or get a reaction. THEN he turned around and said, that I was the most attractive and wonderful woman he has ever been with and nobody could compare. So, therefore I will be “his yardstick” to measure any future relationships by. He actually thought this was a compliment. I was so offended that I had to leave the conversation. It was bad enough everything else he said, but he just kept pushing the envelope. Now I’m a damn yardstick! If I was so perfect, why did you leave me?
This man put me through so much agony and messed up my mind so bad, that I was willing to be friends with him just to still have him in my life in some capacity. An EUM learns your vulnerabilities and what is important to you. They become exactly what you need at that moment in your life. They come across charming, caring & intelligent. They tell you what you need to hear and put you on an emotional high. Before long you are falling in-love. He is hooked…until he gets his fill, has to start giving more to the relationship or cannot get something from you that he wants. Then the honeymoon is over and the problems begin. Usually they’re subtle, to test the waters of how far he can push you. By that time your heart is invested. You value the relationship and willing to be understanding and work through things to maintain the union.
Then comes the inevitable for all EUM…they start abandoning you. A few days, a week, longer. Telling you this is how they are, they need their space sometimes or this is how they work through their problems. It’s hard for you to understand, because they didn’t need space before nor is this the way a normal relationship should be. They imply that you’re needy or you’re just not being understanding or how unfair you are. Once you give them that out, then they begin using it as a form of control. It all goes downhill from there and doesn’t get any better. They can turn a confident, outgoing woman into a shadow of herself. Checking the answering machine constantly, sitting by the phone, keeping your cell phone with you like it’s an appendage and logging into your email like you have a compulsive disorder. Crying, filled with anxiety all the time, walking on eggshells, can’t sleep, over analyzing and ashamed to tell anyone that the man you love treats you this way. They are passive-aggressive in the worst way and become emotionally abusive by with-holding communication, affection, empathy & support. By the time it’s all done, you’ll need therapy yourself.
I hate myself that I let him do this. I could have left, but my self esteem was so damaged & my brain so jumbled that I didn’t know how to do that. I thought I needed him. I was on a rollercoaster that I couldn’t get off of. And what keeps you there are the strokes they give you….by putting you back in that honeymoon phase for awhile. Being good to you and making you the center of their universe….then taking it all away at whim. Remembering the good times and how great you used to be together. WE can’t believe they don’t love us or care, because there are times when things are so fabulous. I made excuses for my EU-ex. In the end he made me feel like it was my fault, that I had elements in my life that caused the problems. In reality he just couldn’t control me to the extent he wanted. My life was fine….it wasn’t until I met him that I had issues….but did I think about that, NO!
He left me for 18 months and the stress took my health. He hurt me so bad emotionally, that I almost didn’t make it. I was on the road to recovery, but he noted me on a site we were members of and what did I do? I opened it! My girlfriend said delete it. I can still hear her telling me, please don’t let him pull the scab off the wound, when you are just now healing. I didn’t listen to her, b/c I wanted so bad to hear him tell me that he was sorry and give me closure. We talked on the phone and he made all kinds of promises, told me what I longed to hear and convinced me he was a changed man. He Treated me like a Queen, made several trips to visit me and was so loving. He told me he’d never hurt me again and made plans to move to my state so we could start a new life. Even told me that as soon as he saved the money, he would buy me a ring. The first 3 months were so good I can’t describe it. I trusted him, forgave him and let him back into my heart….then 1 day out of the blue, he disappeared on me.
It took him 2 days just to contact me and all he said was, I’m ok…sorry I made you worry via email. Then sent me another email that said, he felt like something was missing. He could’ve told me that before I slept with him. He didn’t care how this would affect me. My feelings just didn’t mean anything b/c he got what he wanted. I was so devastated that I told him at the end of the summer we could talk about things and try to work it out. He agreed and said he loved me and wanted things to be better. I asked him to call me at the end of August. He never showed up and shut me out of his life. PLEASE don’t make the mistakes I did!!!!
Dumb me called him crying on his machine and asked him to please talk to me. I Wrote him letters and since we were in a long distance relationship, there isn’t more I could do….but hurt. He didn’t lift a finger to call me back or even acknowledge my correspondence… but I KNOW I have emails from him in my in-box. I REFUSE to read them, because they will only make me feel bad and it continues to give him control. I don’t even want to look at the subject line, so I have not been in my email since July. EUM/AC love email/texting and any other form of contact where they don’t have to talk directly to you or deal with conflict. Unless they are going into therapy and getting help, you have to stay away for your own sanity. NC is hard, but allowing them to control you or get a reaction out of you is worse. You are giving them what they need and they don’t have to give you anything. Realize that you are still vulnerable as long as you have feelings for them. Care about yourself more than him….I try to tell myself that everyday. Love should not be this hard nor should it be so painful. Stand behind your boundaries and have NO CONTACT!! I was in this nightmare for 9 YEARS. I don’t want any of you to hurt like I do.
no_more-I just wanted to say that I can relate with your story(specialy the first part).When I was reading it was like I was reading about myself.The wanting to remain friends after the break up,the confusion,the hurt,their vague behaviour that one day treats you like the center of their universe and the other ignore you.I just been trough all that too so I know how you felling now.But hang in there,keep going NC,work on yourself and you will get over that.All the best 🙂
no_more…
Thanks for posting your story. I feel for you, and at the same time, your story is one I can learn from… You tried being friends (didn’t work)…You tried to get back together after a period of time (didn’t work)…And after all this time, he bailed on you. Good for you for not going to his email.
I agree with everything you wrote about EUMs. I just broke up with my EUM 2 weeks ago….tried to be friends, and it all went upside down for me, when I saw him hug this woman like I’d not seen before. Then I mentioned it and he went from being a friend and how I meant a lot to him, to saying he doesn’t want to talk to me ever again…we can’t be friends as long as we have feelings. This is true, and he is the one that did it,…not me. I haven’t gone NC yet, as I sent him an email today telling him how hurt I was with what he said.
Oh well. I wish you luck, and and keep up with NC…I get a sense that is really the only way to go. And be kind to yourself. What matters is what we do today…
I’m replying to no-more… What you’ve said and the way you’ve said it reasonates so deeply to how I have felt that it prompts me to post. My recent experience with an EUM contained cruelty, emotional and 1X physical. I have been reeling since and have sought help. I can say that NC has allowed me to move forward, however a huge chunk of my former self has been displaced. On a positive note, I will use this experience as a jump off point to make my life and myself better than before. I deserve it, we all do. Thanks for your honesty and heartfelt post. It has helped me.
Hi All,
Am posting here after almost a year.I had stopped all contact with my ass clown and was very proud of the progress I was making.Then,yesterday after a gap of 7 months,I felt the urge to call him and gave in to it.He has not changed one bit.He treated me so badly that I feel like shooting myself now for having contacted him.While we were talking,he said that his mother was on the other line and that he would speak to her and get back to me.I had my doubts that he would call back, and he proved me right.He did not call me back.I kept calling and texting him and he even stopped answering my calls.And the next day,he sheepishly sends me a text saying that he had other chores to do and could not call me.To tell me this,he took such a long time and that too after I sent him atleast 10 messages asking him what happened.Even then,I did not stop.I called him again from a different number and tried to analyze his behavior with him.Of course,he did not accept any of it and kept insisting that what he did was right.And worse of all,I wonder what happened to the self discipline that I exercised for such a long time.Suddenly i seem to have become this weak woman who is desperate to contact him no matter what,ready to accept the crumbs he keeps throwing at me.I am really really ashamed of myself for having broken the no contact rule.Please advise.Has this happened to others as well?
Brook
7 months of NC and you think of him? I wouldn’t have wasted not one brain cell thinking of him after 7 months girl…. I think that you had an illusion or something cause 7 months no contact is quite long enough to have gotten over him and be well on your way. I am now on my first 30 days NC as of today and I have not one craving in my mind of ever going back to that NARCISSTS ASS HOLE or letting him back into my life EVER!!!! NEVER!!! EVER!!! AGAIN!!!! I say you screwed up but there is life after death… cause I’m sure that’s what it almost feels like after being free for a while and then giving him power over you again. Maybe that was your epiphany moment(CONFIRMATION) to let you know that the relationship is OVER AND THEIR IS NOTHING TO SALVAGE SO GAIN SOME DIGNITY AND KEEP IT MOVING.
I really love this article. I have been for the past two or so years desperately trying to reconnect with my old boyfriend of 3 years. Before we broke up we had all these big plans of getting married and starting a family but I began to feel him drifting and to avoid him leaving me I guess I left him.
Soon after I had a change of heart and he was already on his flirting ways and had hooked up with an old girlfriend whom I had suspected him of seeing even when we were together because they live in the same state.
Anyways when I began trying to “win him back” it was already too late and he wanted nothing to do with me but I persisted and after reading this article I know fully how desperate I acted. I did so many foolish things and I made it my business to let him know at all times that I was available. I still have not moved on with my life perhaps because I still hope that he would turn around and I want to be ready but mostly I convince myself it is because I have not found that one as yet.
Life is hard and it is good when we can find little pieces from the manual (like your article) to help us along the way.
Thank you so much for sharing.
I found the book “Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men” was an excellent source of strength for me. I had accepted that the problem in the relationship was me. Reading this book helped me realize that no matter what choice I would make it was wrong. Even if I spent a great deal of time trying to anticpate exactly what he would want the decision I made was still wrong. Perhaps he will find someone more suited to him but I honestly believe that whoever is in his life will suffer the same treatment as I did. Stick with people that love you. Love shouldn’t be such an effort.