Sometimes, you find yourself in the rather infuriating position of feeling like you know the ‘real’ side of someone and that ‘everyone’ around them is being fooled. You see them going on about their merry life as if everything’s hunky-dory and yet your head is still spinning from their treatment of you. In fact, your life may be in absolute tatters after your experience with them – your self-esteem may be shot and the last thing you can do at this time is attempt to go on your merry way. ; ;
Particularly if you work together or move in the same social circles, it can feel like mind effery. You might overhear someone praising them or have to be in the same room while your peers are killing themselves laughing at their jokes or smiling broadly at them and you want to scream, “Can’t you see who they really are? If you really knew, you wouldn’t be friends with them!” You might even want to blurt out a list of everything you know.
Maybe you see them prancing around with their new love interest, preening like a peacock without a care in the world. They seem loved up from what you hear, or maybe you know because you’ve been reading their declarations on Facebook and going through their photos and poking through their mutual friends…
“How can they be so frickin’ happy? I’m practically dying here and they’ve spat me out of their life, shown me their arse in more ways than one, and yet, I’m alone and they’re loved up! Is it me? Did something about me bring out a dark side in them?”
The likelihood is that you’ll experience doubt and blame yourself – Is it me that brought out their bad side? Why would they treat me this way but not others? Is it something I said? Is it something I did? How the hell can they not see who they really are?
And of course you know that it’s not your imagination, that you’re not going crazy and that you haven’t ‘made’ them treat you badly, so as you try to recover from the experience, you may be bristling with indignation or like a pressure cooker full of suppressed anger, consumed with this idea that they’re getting away with it and that no one knows who they really are. But is this really true?
You see the thing is, unless they fell out of the sky into 2012 with no previous history and a ‘clean bill of health’, you are not the only person who knows who they are. You’re not. Not everything is about you.
When you convince yourself that you’re the only person that knows the real them, you’re actually still making out like you’re the exception to the rule, and you’re carrying on as if to say that not only did your relationship with them exist in a vacuum, but something about you and your relationship makes their character and behaviour specific to you – this is inverted ego issues.
I know it’s nice to think you are that special and your relationship and ‘connection’ was out of this world, but the only reason why you’d want to convince yourself that you’re the only person that knows the real them, is to actually remain stuck on it being about something being wrong with you.
Of course, what you fail to realise is that you’re giving yourself a hard time about, for example, experiencing an open and shut case of assholery and feeling bad about knowing the ‘real them’, and hoping you get the ‘fake them’ back, or convincing yourself that the ‘real them’ is actually the ‘fake them’, and that your flaws brought it out, and hoping to get back the ‘real fake them’. Exhausting.
If you don’t know what’s real or what’s fake, or you feel like you’re the only one that knows the ‘real them’ which has opened you up to being abused or taken advantage of, you don’t need to play Columbo or try to be their friend or attempt to win them ‘back’; you just need to get out. Fast.
Somebody somewhere knows (possibly a few ‘somebody’s’ who may even be in their harem or blaming themselves like you)…you just don’t know it, probably because your perspective is based on you focusing on your experience, your sense of rejection, and your perception.
You ever hear about a breakup or divorce and say “But they seemed so great together!” or “I can’t believe it!” or “Man, if those two can break up, it doesn’t leave much hope for the rest of us!”? If you’re saying stuff like this, it’s because you don’t know them or their relationship as well as you think.
Someone’s work persona may be very different to their relationship persona or even to their social or family persona. You see different sides to people in different situations plus there are some who are very good at ‘presenting’ a persona that helps them win friends, influence people, and keep their insecurities and even shady shenanigans behind closed doors.
What I do know is that people who behave in shady ways and even go to the trouble of messing with your head, have got ‘form’ for it – you just don’t know about it. You’re not looking in the right places for the information. What? You really think every ex had a perfect time with them and that no one, anywhere has ever seen what you’ve seen? Come on now!
You may have missed some code amber and red alerts that indicated who they are, or may have skipped that discovery phase of dating where you could have sussed out their past. Sometimes, we can be so enamoured and propelling them up onto a pedestal, that they could tell us that they’re The Most Perfect Person On Earth That Does Platinum Coated Poos and we’d believe them – that doesn’t make it so though.
Of course they might like you to think that you’ve been struck by assclown lightening and that they’re a wonderful person of high integrity that’s been provoked into deviating from their good selves due to you not being good enough – not buying it. If they were so frickin great and good, they could have deviated their way out of your life without mistreating you.
Let’s be real: In my time of writing Baggage Reclaim, I’ve heard from thousands of men and women who have been in relationships that they claim others wouldn’t associate them with and would actually greatly contradict the perception that’s held of them. There are a lot of people whose relationships don’t reflect values they claim or appear to have.
You can go from here to eternity worrying about whether ‘everyone’ is in on your reality – what’s the point? It’s like trying to control the uncontrollable. Why do you need them on ‘your side’? Get on your own side!
You’re not alone – you know the real them. It is not your job to do a Samantha Jones equivalent and pin notices around your neighbourhood to out them while wearing a mac and a wig. You know – that.is.more.than.good.enough. ; ;
The good thing is that if you heed the warning signs from their actions instead of trying to get a Ph.D in Why Did They Do This? Is It Me?, they won’t ever have an opportunity to get close to you again. You don’t need social proof, nor do you need to have witness statements to corroborate your findings – it is only you that needs to judge your experience and take action.
Your thoughts?
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About the Author:
Natalie Lue is the founder and writer of Baggage Reclaim and author of the books Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship and more. Learn more about her here and you can also follow her on Facebook and Twitter - @baggagereclaim .
Natalie (NML) – who has written 1082 posts on Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue.
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“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.”~Maya Angelou
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Grace is right. Time to focus on YOU now. It sounds like yr committed to NC so now try to think of some strategies you can use whenever thoughts of him arise. Different things work for different ppl. For me, before I knew the truth abt mt xAC I used to play a particular sad love lost type song over & over, just when needed to process the grief & letting go. Needless to say lots of sobbing would ensue but that was fine. I needed to let it out somehow. Once I knew the truth I no longer felt a shred of grief & instead played Christinatina Agulira’s song ‘Fighter’ over & over to reset my thinking. Housework is good too (ever notice how some of us women can clean spick & span when we’ve got a bee in our bonnet)?! But perhaps one of easiest techniques is simple thought stopping. Every time he pops into your mind, as soon as you realise you’re thinking about him STOP (& actually say this to yourself). Then, replace the thought of him with your own specifically worded mantra. It might go something along the lines of, ‘thanks for the thought, but I deserve nothing but the very best. I now return to loving myself & focusing on my own needs’
Also, distract, distract, distract. Books, movies, coffee w friends, time with loved ones, work, study, exercise, therapy, hobbies, baths – multiple one’s per day if neccessary (my personal fav) – whatever does it for you – do it as often as possible.
It may take some time but I promise that you WILL get through this & come out the other side a much stronger person. It won’t be easy but nothing worth having ever is (in this case – peace of mind!)
And above all, PLEASE, be GENTLE with yourself. It sounds like you’ve been through the wringer & it’s time to give all the love care & attention you once would have lavished upon him, to yourself instead. After all – you deserve it; there’s only ONE you & that makes you special.
Hugs. T x
Hi T,
Thanks for your responses to my post. I really feel like im getting better these days. I do find that every day of NC brings different thoughts and challenges, and some days are better than others. Today, for instance, is a bit tough, but for some reason I always seem to find Sundays a bit hard. Im not sure what thats about. All I know is that im determined to get through this. Im determined to grow, and learn from this. Its just really difficult at times with no self esteem left, to think about him off being happy with the new gf, after all the promises and plans, and im here learning about me, and working hard to feel better, learn and grow. NC is the only way that I can heal and move forward.
Hi Tulipa.
My heart goes out to you. Mothers who fail to protect their children from abusive fathers, stepfathers, boyfriends (or any abusive man in fact) are my pet hate. Hate is a strong word I know but it’s not meant as in ‘I hate *your* Mother’. It’s just that w 20 yrs behind me in a ‘helping profession’ you would not believe the number of Mums I worked with who were like this. Some were being abused by the very same men themselves & didn’t understand or know that their children were also being abused (although they may have suspected something was going on & sometimes had even made reports about their suspicions – to no avail). These Mother’s I had some compassion for. Others, unbelievably, refused to believe or accept their children were being abused & instead rejected the child & sided with the abuser!!! Notwithstanding very rare instances of false allegations (I never had a single case of this btw & I estimate I worked with 200+ famlies in my time), I will leave it there, because if I start on the latter, I wont stop!
BIG Hugs! T x
Teachable, I am also OBSESSED with borderlines and sociopaths, much to my chagrin- it is difficult to get any body to talk about it, and so it goes on and on- generation after generation, because it is not politically correct to discuss/diagnose. People don’t want to see it. As far as I am convinced, they are the only problem on earth. Beasts from hell, who wreak havoc and devastation, all in secret while maintaining their reputations. I am like a social scientist, seeking out all of the clues and signs and symptoms of perpetrators and victims. I also have a deep disdain for the moms in the passive-aggressive contingent, and I am upset with God for allowing them to be mothers, the mothers who fail to protect. They are the silent abusers. I, too, would like to make it my life long work to teach people about how to spot them, highlight their deliberate malice, and put more effective laws into place to STOP THEM. Make it impossible for them to hide; use hidden cameras to show the abuse that they inflict, on the same targets without any witnesses, because they are manipulative, down to the seconds, not even minutes, getting their lifelong jollies from abuse and gaslighting. Horrifying, and common. Sorry for the rant, off topic? – To be relevant- a segue- I believe toxic parents put people at risk for abuse later in life.
Thank you Teachable for your reply.
Mothers like mine are hard to understand because I think of the reasons she may have but none stack up against leaving your child open to abuse.
I have had to come terms with what happened and forgive my mum. Though there are times when she placates me in some ways because she thinks I’m going to blow up and shout the truth (I’m convinced she knows anyway but denial wins out for her) but after counselling I now conclude even if I did say the truth it wouldn’t change anything.
Our relationship is not close but I guess it works for us.
Thanks for the hugs.
Cc
I LOVE yr post to Magnolia. You are very wise!
T
thanks, teachable. i do try.
Once again, this posting hits home. Natalie has given me the same advice before and this just reiterates it. I have to keep reminding myself that the “oh so holy, oh so funny and charming church guy” whom everyone thinks is just a laugh and a half is really a shady, manic depressive *&^hole, at least, he was to me. I know it doesn’t really matter that others don’t see it, but I have to admit that it’s hard to see him strut around church, teaching Sunday school, ringing the bells, giving out communion while his adoring wife smiles at him. I have to get beyond it, but all I really want to do is punch him. Has he chased and deceived other women before me? I really don’t know. He told me once he had never “done this” before and that (here’s the kicker) he felt “99% sure he would never cheat on me.” He actually said that to me. Mind you, I didn’t exactly have an affair with him, but I came quite close. I couldn’t believe he actually said that to me. Yes, red flags and warning signs and I saw that back then, but I was too foolish to end it. I got hurt and months later, while things are better and I’m healing from a divorce, my stomach still knots up when I see him and hear his Australian accent (which I’ve come to dislike so much – no offense to anyone reading this who is Australian: it’s his voice and accent that bothers me). Has he done this before? Will he do it again? Does he even have a shred of conscience? I have no idea. Why do I care? I don’t know.
Has he done this before? Probably
Will he do this again? Probably
Does he have a shred of conscience? Perhaps – but not enough to change his behaviour for
You sound much better Amy – glad you are starting to accept and move on from – now what was it – Churchy Cheater Man (credit to whoever coined that nickname)
Thanks Polly. I think I’m doing much better. And yes, he’s definitely the “Churchy Cheater Man!”
Amy,
There was one major red flag: He’s married!!!
Ladies, nothing can ever come from getting involved with a MM! You have to know it was a no-go when you started the involvement!
Yes, that was my biggest mistake and I paid dearly for it, as likely, do most women in the same situation.
“Someone’s work persona may be very different to their relationship persona or even to their social or family persona. You see different sides to people in different situations plus there are some who are very good at ‘presenting’ a persona that helps them win friends, influence people, and keep their insecurities and even shady shenanigans behind closed doors.”
Yep, exactly what I found. As a person who feels she is the same through-and-through, it is hard for me to understand people with different faces, or “masks”, for different circles of people. When I could still look on Facebook (now we’re defriended), it’s apparent how many people, hundreds of them, bought his smooth and polished surface personality. Few of these people know that what lies beneath is an unstable, mean spirited, critical and non-empathetic asshole. He has such a smooth personality for work, behaves in a way that is chill and unflappable. His relationship personality is much different.
What’s funny is when I was scoping on him initially, I looked through his past Facebook history and saw precious little about connections with other women, though he has hundreds of friends. Well! When we broke up and I was disgusted with him, I could still access his page to remove anything I’d posted to his wall like a Valentine’s Wish – I now think his other exes did, too – that explains why they are not to be found. Also, his norm is womanizing – I was a long term relationship at 3 months! – so guess one wouldn’t write too much about someone they’d been out with 2-4 x.
He and my ex-husband are two guys I can’t stand to think about. Yuck. Narcissistic, mean, non-caring. Flush from memory.
Well Natalie no matter what I read, you have me perfectly pegged even though we’ve never met. Since his wife found out about us that meant that at least somebody else on the planet knows what a scum he is, although she didn’t kick his arse to the kurb. It was particularly hard reading all his political rhetoric touting “family values” and how the “family” was the bedrock of society, while he was ditching his wife and children to sex up his mistress. Boy did I want to scream from the rooftop once the fantasy collapsed. I do know the real him and I know what he did last summer. He screwed me over and his wife and children. And I. Better. Listen. I loved the section in the new Dreamer book “He Keeps a Foothold in Your Life…And You Keep the Door Ajar”. Yup, you nailed it. I’ve managed to not respond to his silly snail mail B-Day gift from last week. But since I’m a Dreamer (not to alibi), it is like it’s “burning a hole in my fantasy back pocket” that is such a great line. I snarfed my ice tea when I read that. Swear to god, I was thinking what if there is the possibility that since his youngest is now 2o and left for college, he’s spontaneously combusted into that fantasy and all that future faking would come true. I’m so tired of my never ending story with this dude. You all gotta be more tired than me, thanks for listening. You are right, Shoppers are a “pesky sort”, more like a sticky bugger. Thanks so much Natalie. You are an amazingly gifted woman. I did put his little crumbs through the Easy Bake Oven…remember that? Remember baking a cake under a 100 watt light bulb? Yeah, it tasted like shit.
Totally love the Dreamer book. I had no idea I could be a dreamer. I’m so practical, sheesh!
Oh dear, just hit the conclusion of the aforementioned section. “Why am I leaving the door ajar for these people”? Dear lord, have no truer words been spoken. I’m such a sucker for the Pretty Woman fairy tale. He just can’t let me go, cos no other woman on the planet is going to blow smoke up his arse like I did. And no other woman is going to buy his bs smoke screen like I did. This made me cry because it’s so true: “What you must remember is that if you are having a real relationship, with a real mutual connection, he’d not only walk through that door, but he’d close it and stay with you…” This so struck me. One of our favorite songs was a Stevie Nicks song when he walked through the door, he would never leave. Another flipping fairy tale. How do I sort fantasy from reality? These guys seem to play to the fairy tale and I seem to buy it. Talk about the dance of death.
Runner
If it’s any consolation, I know exactly how you feel. We’re so dead practical, right?(!). I even grumbled to my ex arsey EU man (probably more than once) stuff like: ‘do you not understand that other women would not put up with this nonsense?…. Do you think I’d put up with this nonsense from anyone other man… grrr?’
I was trying to make him see how ‘special’ I was, because only the most special woman would put up with so much crappy relationship behaviour from him (err… wonder why did he not get it? Pft).
And just in case he thought that I was one of those women who would put up with any old shit (?), I would explain to him that I wouldn’t put up with this from any man other than him, thereby showing him how special he was to me (err… yeah right, Fearless, no-one is that special – and he knew it!)
That was the kinda twisted thinking I could pass off as logical. Turns out he was not that special and neither was I.
Of course, he didn’t do the same logic as me!
Yup you are so right Fearless. The more crap I put up with, the more crap he dished out and the more crap I put up with. Talk about a cycle of doom and twisted logic. From reading the Dreamer book, I can see how he (a Shopper) was reading things and what I was doing/dreaming played perfectly into his twisted thinking. And what he wasn’t doing, played perfectly into my twisted thinking cos I could dream it. He did know me and I knew him. But not in that happy, healthy way. Let’s be grateful those three legged donkeys are out to pasture.
PS. The feeling passed and it’s not “burning a hole in my fantasy back pocket”. Still chuckling.
Thanks Natasha, for this: “I STILL look for social proof when I experience something that bothers me…like I still can’t trust that I’m judging the person or the situation correctly.” I can relate. These are deep habits, no?
Fate dealt me a very lucky hand when I learnt of my ex’s fall from grace from his high powered job. For a year and a half after my split from him, despite all the self-affirmations, it still bothered me greatly that a man who had been so sadistic up close should enjoy a profile of humanitarian and the prestige of a socially-minded high-power exec. I felt like I was the one who was too weak and needy to be able to put up with the “rough edges” of this guy’s character and that everyone who was in his circle had a tougher skin than me, and could just laugh off this guy’s “quirks,” and that these characteristics were the keys to their “success.”
There probably IS a lot of looking the other way when witnessing aggression and bullying in order to achieve that brand of success, but ….
I was repeating affirmations to trust myself and my judgement daily. When I found out that 18 months later, others in his workplace had had their fill of him, I felt completely validated. From that day the self-doubt over that relationship vanished. I got the social proof I needed that I had made the “right” choice.
I’m sure life will present me with many more opportunities to rely on my own judgment, though. I’m glad to know this, and I am grateful for all these opportunities to stay true to myself, even in the face of opposition.
During a post-mortem argument I actually said to him I’m sure your previous divorce had nothing to do with you either. Wondering what I did that brought about this guy to blame me for everything wrong that happened between us.
He replied back with an email chocked full of anecdotes of how his ex verbally and physically abused him and that is what ended their relationship. “it was all her, etc etc”
When I read that I thought maybe she “knew the real him” too.
I had thought about contacting her but the “getting a ph d in the why why why” is just too exhausting. I’m done with flogging a dead horse, he’s just an ass and I’m sure lots of unfortunate women have had to find that out. Time to move on!
Ugh, I just had to hear my friend spit this ridiculous line out of her mouth about her loser boyfriend. She says that no one else gets to see his sweet side but her. I think all thoughts literally left my brain when she said that, it took all of my strength not to roll my eyes lol. I’ve never believed that any person is all bad, but good grief, I very rarely see a good side show up out of him. He curses her and the kids out several times during the day, and I’m pretty sure he’s cheating on her. I really do think that she’s doing what you said: hoping that the “real” him is really the “fake” him.
But it just makes me think back to the times in which I’ve let myself be burned by someone, because I used to do the very same thing. In the immediate aftermath, I totally thought that the poor behavior/treatment was specific to me. But now that I’m able to see it from farther away, I can honestly say that I knew who they were all along and I really shouldn’t have been surprised by the outcome.
its very depressing hearing the pain from womens stories.. ultimately us women…we put our hearts out there and most of the time it ends in some sort of heartbreak. in my experience, it does looks like the vast majority of men are cut from the same cloth especially in the way they decide to break up with a girl. disappearing, “im busy” text, and many more. we are really dating the same guy. currently my 3 text messages to this guy over the space of 3 months have gone unreplied. firstly, yes, he’s not interested, got it…but how much different would it be, if we all got some freaking honest answers from these ‘men’. “im really not interesting in you, good bye’” i want this message, not any bull crap ignoring and awkardness when you happen to bump into them. its all good and well to move on and forget, but i think the decency of men have gone out the door. a lot of men know that they have that much power over women and theres a quote about knowing someones character when they have been given power. just because a man can get away with treating a woman badly doesnt mean they should. i think ultimately the failure of man is acting with their ‘biological instinct’ rather than in a mature logical way.goodness knows iv read so many relationship books especially with letting a man ‘chase’ you. you know what, i dont want a man to chase. i want to meet someone with no games, or chasing or any other bullshit.someone who i can have a conversation with, someone with whom i feel chemistry for. sorry for my rant, but im just sick of ‘men’ and their bullshitness and in many cases what ‘women’ should be doing to have one. i have attended many weddings recently . one in which the groom and his high ego ( &paid for a very lavish wedding with his 15years his junior barbie bride as he just simply wanted to ‘attain’ a wife, did just that and the other ‘i can’t be with her (sexually) unless i marry. for me, i’d rather remain single.
I agree with absolutely everything you just said.
@Wilma, very well said.
I would add, there is a recurring thread on here of men (including my last one) who hold positions of social esteem in government, in their companies, in religious organizations, in their communities…..who are living lives totally without integrity and screwing other people literally and figuratively behind that smooth and nice seeming exterior. ??? Thus just adds insult to injury.
This article was good for me to read, though. Due to the number of women my last one went through and is apparently going through again, playing on his smooth charm, looks and position….I’m quite sure I am not the only one to know who he really is. Maybe that is why I was greeted with less than enthusiasm when he introduced me as his girlfriend….probably most knew I was a temporary gig, everyone but me!!
I have NO IDEA why guys will break up via late night phone call out of the blue, via text or E mail, disappearing, etc., etc., and not simply man up and be honest. It’s such hurtful and inconsiderate behavior. I’ve had a few successful breakups with guys when we’ve simply openly and caringly discussed it and decided we don’t have a future in romance but might as friends. Morphing to friends only occurs if there are genuine differences in interests, etc., which come forth in a close relationship but don’t matter as friends, and there was no mistreatment, jerkness, etc. – otherwise, of course, they are not friend material.
I’m as puzzled as you. Doesn’t it seem MORE complicated to be an ass and burn your bridges, then just to be straight and considerate and leave a trail of kindness?
ah the email breakup. a sign of the times. i put my last phantomrelationship on pause via email actually. not by choice…but becuase my mr unavailable just wasn’t able to talk on the phone due to ”privacy” issues. yahuh.
After many years of trying to figure them out, and all the heart ache, feeling completely destroyed repeatedly – then needing to fix myself up enough to be attractive ‘ 3 years here, 2 years there’ just to feel I had been destroyed again by some loser/boy that wasn’t even that smart or good looking or anything – I must agree… I am too tired for one thing, and trying so hard only made me become LESS than I was, Worrying only made me avoid having fun.
F*ck them all, F*ck my past, I just wanna have FUN and NOT even hear the word *Relationship* Not the one he is having, had, or thinks would be the better one. And NOT the one I can’t seem to get, NONE of it…
I want to just live and NOT care anymore and NOT worry anymore about anyone being able to have the power they have had – I will not rest until it’s a “Used to be thing anymore” and you know, the LAST thing I will ever do is let any man know my PAST… I am keeping THAT very hush hush, I will NEVER mention I was once a doormat, as far as they will ever know I was raising my son and THAT is why I did not date for 6 years.
Magnolia,
Having experienced & been singled out for severe bullying by a so called ‘carer’ as a child (which subsequntly esculated to a horrible case of mobbing), it occured to me as I read your last couple of posts that perhaps the role your family assigned to you as a child (& which you now object to as an adult @ least within yourself even if not saying anything outright about it to others) might that of the scapegoat? I know that was a role assigned to me.
Your situation might be different as admittedly I didn’t grow up with my family, but even my Mother attempted to assign that role to me in the dynamics of my biological family. In my situation I evetuslly managed to completely shake it off by 1. explaining my reality when appropriate & refusing to allow this to be disrespected & 2. becoming successful as an adult in the sense of not relying on my family in way shape or form for any of my practical needs (& being the first to be tertiary educated out of the whole lot of them, the only female to be career orientated & the ONLY one to have bought property completely on my own didn’t hurt with this btw).
It became impossible for anyone in my family to ‘point the finger’ @ how ‘crazy’ I (supposedly) was, in light of clearly being self reliant & having (most of the time at least) a highly functional life. In fact, what eventually happened is that the true source of dysfunction (once I was removed from the equation) was revealed, going back to my Mother, adopted Father, Grandmother & Grandfather.
Family dynamics are a complicated thing. When one part of the system changes though (like I did for example), I found that over time, other parts did too. Not sure if this applies to you but thought I’d share it in case it rings any bells.
T
Thanks Teachable. My high academic achievement and career success hasn’t insulated me from old family dynamics – I was always the plain, geeky sister that studied a lot and couldn’t get dates; too bookish and sensitive and didn’t know how to have friends / party / relax etc. Always “too argumentative,” thinks too much, etc, so my being more academic is just par for the course, to them. My student status and low income has left me feeling dependent and weak this past year, and the power dynamic has shifted somewhat, I notice, as now both my brother and sister are in happy LTRs, which they know I really want, and I honestly don’t know if they feel for me or if they are kind of happy and smug that for once, they have it better than I do.
I actually must be doing pretty well emotionally, because I see all of it and generally, my reaction is, okay, that’s too bad, who cares. Not that I don’t care about having a close relationship with my family, I do, but more, who cares that who they are isn’t what I want.
What I mourn is not having the kind of relationship I want with my family, but I’m beginning to see that it is not their “shortcoming” but my desire for something better that causes the discord. This gap has always seemed tragic to me, deeply tragic: “If only they realized how kind we might be to one another, or how we might interact with one another!” Now I’m more like, there is no law that says family members have to be capable of / be interested in what I’m after. There are all kinds of people not after what I’m after, and two of them are partnered up with my brother and sister! If I genuinely love these people for who they are, I have to accept that with my family, I may never have the kind of interactions I have with other adults.
I always wished I could change them. Then I’m sad when they don’t seem to like me. Go figure.
I like the idea of “shaking it all off”, if it means no longer being trapped in this role, scapegoat or not, but I think I might break down and weep for a while if I really try to sit down and accept that my mother is the only source of consistent, if co-dependent, support, and that for my own sake I should not hope to ever be able to count on my brother or father for anything emotional. It has always been that way, but I don’t think I’ve really figured out what accepting it means. Probably a good…
Hi Lori,
I too notice that the MO’s of our xAC’s seem to be almost interchangeable. Stick em in a different country, wearing a different oufit & we’re prolly all pretty much dating the same guy! lol
Your ‘get young women preggers’ cad sounds like a real charmer. They all went to the same charm school too. Lucky we can all come to B.R to get our AC antidote!
It took me a while to learn the truth abt my xAC also, but I see that now, as ‘taking what it took’. None of that matters now. All that matters is that he’s gone for good!
It seems that my xAC was also deluding himself into thinking he was (primarily) pitting two women against each other, expecting us to ‘fight it out’ over him (i.e myself v’s the Mother of his child). The ego of these idiots is truely astounding!! Besides, there was one pesky little problem, which was that neither of us knew that he was similtaneously involved with the other!! Hence, I had no problem at all contacting the Mother of his child & TELLING ALL (including knowing abt three OW also!) I got the shock of my life when in doing so learned he’d been involved with her too all along! Suffice to say the entire situation blew up in his creepy AC face BIGTIME! No regrets there for me. Happy for ANYONE to have him so long as he never shows up here again!
~runs to quickly check the door to him is firmly LOCKED. Jiggle, jiggle. YEP – phew~
The woman at the gym sounds like she’s switching on. If she’s not a friend there’s no obligation to say anything but if she becomes one, I’d have no hesitation in warning her!
All the best. T
Teachable,
I’ve considered telling her, but the last woman I told at the gym I found out she had slept with him, and then things turned into this weird competition thing. I always felt like she was trying to get information from me about my relationship with him. When I thought he and I could be friendly (big mistake), where we talked and rode the bus home together, she actually got very jealous, started crying in spin class, it got ugly. I told her I valued our friendship and wasn’t considering him. Soon after, he stopped talking to me completely, she ditched me as a friend, and now she fawns over him, waits for him after class, is helping him move, and sleeping with him again. I think she’s the head of his harem and wanted me out of the way. This other woman is someone he’s started hitting on and has gone to the movies with him. She seems to allude to the fact that intellectually, he’s not stimulating…I’d have to agree. Anyways, while he’s taking the new one out to the movies and treating her like a date, he’s banging the other one who seems to give it up freely. Hell, she’s even “Man With A Van” for him. I mean seriously, what sort of man would be OK with asking a woman to help him move, I just find that strange, and most likely, he’s using her. Strange part is, he works with her.
Teachable,
How did he juggle all of you? My God!!!
Ugh, I’m all too familiar with this scenario
I was one of 3 (or 4), including a baby mama who kept coming in and out of the picture. I too blew up his spot with her (and others), and found out they were still sleeping with each other occasionally. Thing is, we were all sorta aware of each other but he had us trained not to ask him questions, contact each other or accuse him of juggling. Feeling pukey just thinking about how disgusting this AC is…it’s so gross how they operate and what they do to the women involved with them. It’s very, very sad how low he got all of us to stoop and was probably feeding us the same BS: prove that you love me (but it’s never enough); you are disposable and will get dropped if you complain too much; I have someone else right around the corner who will put up with my philandering; be very afraid of getting me angry with your accusations. Deeply sick and pathological. You would have thought I was completely desperate or co-dependent to put myself through this for so long. But no, I was just completely mesmerized by his psychotic gaze, brainwashed and in full-on fantasy mode. Feeling so good that I am now 9 weeks out of that mess and completely repulsed by this dirtbag that I once thought was a “real man” — I only wish I had been more aware sooner (and listened to my friends and family) and gotten out before he caused so much emotional devastation.
Kudos, Girl, for no longer being “that girl”, you need to come up with a new name for yourself! Nat has a great post: http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/im-not-that-woman-an-ode-for-every-woman-who-has-loved-lost-and-forgotten-her-value/
Teachable … I totally get you. After I found out one of my ex ACs was who he was, I quit blaming myself. However, instead of taking any responsibility myself, I moved on to another and another and I just kept thinking that one day, I would find the right one. I had no clue my lack of self esteem, or even that i had a lack, or being out of touh with who i was, was the reason for my picking these guys. Unfortunately, I didn’t have BR. How blessed we are. I’m on a phone and can’t read comments as I write. Actually meaning to just add to discussion and tell my experience. No confusion or crossed wires.
HSN – ABSOLUTELY!!! Feel your feelings, nurture yourself.
CC- How do you deal with such a controlling verbally abusive father? It angers me to no end that my mother always takes his side, even when he us wrong and verbally abusive. But if I call him out on it, she blames me. And they wonder why I have so much resentment to them. And then they guilt trip me by saying “we were only trying to protect you”. What by being a verbally abusive control freak?
oh, fedup. i’m sorry you’re going through this, its so hard. let’s see if i can do this within the 2400 character limit. the answer is not easy.
first, accept that your parents have their own relationship contract that you are very unlikely to change, no matter how sick it is. if your mother will not stand up for herself, you can try to point out how she could, or stand up for her yourself, but you’re fighting two adults with years of habits who are living out the roles they formed, they CHOSE together. remember, your mother CHOSE your father. their relationship works precisely because he is dominant and she is submissive (and, sorry, clearly co-dependent). you can change how they deal with YOU by being different yourself, but you are almost 100% going to be unable to change how they deal with each other.
second – keep working on yourself so you can be your best, independent self and begin detaching from your need to change them. accept that the way you’re going about it now is not working. this will cause understandable grief – just grieve. they are who they are. they made their bed, and they’re lying in it. focus on changing YOU, not them. ironically, i found this is the best approach because you’re investing in walking your own path. even my crazy, ranting father shut up and took notice of me when i was calm, clear, not angry, not afraid of him, and not trying to change his mind. everybody noticed when i really stopped fighting the family’s old patterns and started building new ones for myself.
third – do not give in to guilt. do not accept blame. just reject it – don’t say “don’t blame me”, say “i don’t accept your blame.” read all natalie’s posts on building boundaries – then build these boundaries for yourself with your parents. let them think what they want. state your position, but don’t work so hard at getting them to accept it.
if i remember correctly, you’re in your 20s, right? and i’m guessing you’re an only child? if yes, its even harder for you, because its all on you. but you can still break the deadlock by not participating in it. figure out your terms and participate only on those. there were times when i literally had to say “if this is how you’re going to behave, then i’m leaving. i’ll come back when you’re ready to behave properly.” and if they freak out about this, just let them freak out.
and if you still live at home, if i may suggest, start making a plan to move out on your own and get the hell out of there. you need to start building your own life so you can live more by your own rules. this is an unhealthy environment. again – change you, not it. opt out.
i know exactly how it hurts you – the injustice, the cruelty, the tyrrany – but, THEY created this. you can, you must, create something else. what i’m suggesting is very difficult, but it is the only way. one of the hardest things for any of us to accept is that our parents will probably never become the people we want them to be, the people we see they could be, the people we need them to be. we need to be all of those things for ourselves. its lonely, and it sucks, but there is comfort and joy at the end of it.
this is the heart of the AC/EUM problem – we replicate in our romantic lives what we experienced in our home lives. solve this, and you solve your romantic life, your personal life, your whole life. but, again, broken record, you need to solve YOU, not them.
i hope this helps, i’m concerned i wasn’t specific enough. and i probably didn’t say what you wanted to hear. but the more you can embrace this, the happier, yes, HAPPIER you will be.
if you need more help, all of BR is here for you. you’re not alone.
….fedup, but wait, there’s more.
you are NOT responsible for your mother. you. are. not. she is an adult who makes her own choices. no matter how much you disagree with them, no matter how much you can’t bear to watch it, these are HER choices.
the best you can probably do is speak to her in a calm, quiet moment about the things you are learning in the hopes of helping her realize her own value and stand up for herself with your father. but the chance she’ll listen? not high. you can lead a horse to water, but ….
you must give up being joan of arc for her – remember her? what happened to her? she got burned at the stake. screw that. do not be anybody’s martyr. if your mother were that unhappy, she’d change. she’s not changing. its sad, i know, but walk your own path. maybe she’ll see your changes and be inspired. but don’t bet on it, and don’t change yourself with that objective in mind.
focus on you and how you want to show up in the world. you will suffer a lot of grief over this, but that’s part of the process. just stay in the process, and how you feel and your ability to handle what you’re experiencing WILL get better. promise.
big hugs.
oh, jeez. fedup, after writing you the whole book i wrote you, i just reread your question (more awake), and i’m afraid i may have missed your point. i’m sorry!
if you’re asking me how you stand up for YOURSELF (not your mother) to your verbally abusive father, and are decrying the fact that your mother won’t defend you – ok, that’s horrible, i’m so sorry. but much of what i said still applies – they have their contract with each other. yes, its w.r.o.n.g. for your mother to not defend her baby (!!!), but, and i’m sorry, that’s who she is. everything i wrote still applies, but to you, not her.
he’s a bully. she’s an enabler. so, however you can, opt out of the dynamic. they don’t own you. stop trying to change them. don’t fall for any “we did the best we could (however true)” guilt-based bullshit. they had a responsibility to love and care for the child they created. they failed, at least in some respect. so, you take responsibility for YOU as i suggested above – PLUS:
1- separate how you deal with your father from how you deal with your mother. don’t take them both on at the same time. stand up to him. don’t antagonize him, but do NOT tolerate his abuse of you. you are an adult now. stand up for yourself with as little energy, as little cost to you as possible. build your self esteem so what he says affects you less and less. do not accept his judgments of you. do not participate if he starts ranting at you. opt. out. get up and leave if you have to. refuse to participate in an abusive dynamic. stick to these guns.
2- be clear with your mother – her relationship with you WILL change for the worse unless she treats you better. warning: this will probably not work, but you will be standing up for yourself.
a- the soft approach – just don’t argue with her, ignore her. stay focused on your father (again, do not attack him, but opt out or defend yourself well) and let your actions with him speak for themselves with her. YOU are the pioneer here.
b- the hard approach – say to her: “if you don’t know how to defend your child against all threats, even from my own father, then i really don’t know how you call yourself a mother.” this statement will be INCENDIARY. it will start a firefight. only use it if you are really willing to take this stand and maintain it. forever.
again, more help is here if you need it.
Thankyou CC
fedup-
i wrote more after this, natalie posted it to the bottom of the comments. i don’t know if it will help, i just don’t want you to miss it. there are some specific tactics for dealing with them. hang in there, honey, you’re on the right path.
Hi Fedup
I had a very similar upbringing except my father’s wif [the woman who gave birth to me] was the abusive bully and my father not only never took my side, but I always had to be the one to apologize for upsetting her. Enough about me but..that seems to be why a lot of us here accept crap behavior and come back for more, we were conditioned to be the lowest members of the pack and it sucks and the adults who did this to their kids suck but we really, truly can take back our power, our respect. But it will take hard work, it’s ingrained it’s what you know right now. As CC advised, do please make plans to escape, get a roommate, rent a room. You grew up in an abusive environment and must get out. Hugs.
HSN… big hugs. Be gentle on yrself. My xAC ‘sailed off into the sunset’ w someone else too so I know what that feels like. I also know the REAL him though, so realise they’re not on a cruise to the carribean, but more on a sinking ship! Glad yr feeling a little better. Yr resolve re NC is commendable. The hard times WILL pass & eventually the pain WILL ease. There IS a pot of gold @ the end of the rainbow of tears. That pot of gold is YOU. x
Allison, he juggled us & got away w it for so long (18 mths) because we were in different states. He came very close to moving to be w me (yeah right! & the 2 OW also in my state no doubt – both also x-girlfriends frm decades prior). His supreme assholery caused me to smell a rat & I did some ‘digging’ for the truth. Needless to say he didn’t move here & I FLUSHED w no regrets!!
Lori
That’s a difficult one. Shame you can’t just go to a different exercise class so as to no longer have to bothered w any of the B.S. If u can, do it. U don’t need any of that crap. Re the new friend & what happened w the old one I can only suggest follow yr gut. Going to a different gym or different exercise class would solve all of it in one swoop. Like I said, who needs it? Certainly not you!
Lori
I’m with teachable on this – does this man have superpowers? It’s bizarre to me that he’s got all these women attending his class who he sexually molests, who then talk about him and analyse him. What you’re saying may not be complementary but he is getting a huge amount of attention. He is getting a proper good pumping up! I can’t believe he’s that special even as a yoga teacher unless he’s got you all doing that flying thing.
I used to take ballet class and there was one particular somewhat egotistical teacher who had his accolytes. I could see the attraction but, in the end, I did best under a lovely, sweet-natured Spanish ballerina. Teachers shouldn’t be prancing about with their egos showing. They shouldn’t be having sex with you.
Careful of allowing ACs access to your life. It may seem harmless but in all kinds of situations I’ve seen it turn nasty. At the very least they have a contaminating effect.
Y’all are adults but – is this really what yoga is about?
OMMMMMMMMMMM!
“Careful of allowing ACs access to your life. It may seem harmless but in all kinds of situations I’ve seen it turn nasty. At the very least they have a contaminating effect”.
I definitely agree with this, Grace. I was close friends with an AC guy for nearly 20 years, long before I even knew what an AC was. It was only when doing a lot of thinking about my jerk of an ex after the end of our relationship last year that the penny dropped about my long-standing close friend being incredibly similar to my ex in his appalling treatment of women in particular (i.e. having an ego-boosting harem, trying to be “friends” with all his ex-gf’s to make himself feel less of a jerk, doing the passive-aggressive ignoring thing in order to get rid of someone he wanted to finish with, prolific online chatting and texting, spending loads of time with various women behind his current partner’s back, shagging 3 different women behind each of their backs etc etc etc). I then realised with mounting horror that being friends for so long with this guy had kind of contaminated me and normalised such jerkish behaviour so that I hardly noticed it in either him or in my own partners, and at the very least accepted it as just how all men were! Hell, I even went away on holiday with my friend knowing that he had a steady girlfriend! My justification to myself at the time that this was acceptable behaviour was that we were always in separate rooms and I wasn’t interested in him sexually!!!! As if that made it okay!! I’m frankly utterly appalled that I could ever have behaved like that – never ever EVER again. Glad to say that I not only cut the ex off completely nearly a year ago, but the close male friend has also been given the heave-ho, along with all of my own shady behaviour during my association with him. He’s still trying to pour himself into every last corner of my life, as he has “friended” some of my oldest friends on FB and bombards them with texts and tries to meet up with them. I’ve blocked him on Fakebook now, as I couldn’t stand to see his oily and ingratiating comments on my friends’ posts any longer. I feel so free and unburdened now that I’ve seen the real person and got him out of my life so that he can’t influence and contaminate me any longer. The temptation is to tell my other friends all about who he really is, but I do manage to keep pretty quiet about him, and trust that they will see it for themselves in due course.
No worries LoJ. Glad yr realising there’s been a pattern in the type of ppl u’v chosen to have r.ships w. We all make mistakes / live & learn. It’s called LIFE. Good for u!
Fearless
I did the same as you ie told him no-one else would put up with how he was treating me etc. Even as the words fell out of my mouth I knew well wait a minute, so why am I am putting up with it? Largely I didnt. We were ‘off’ most of the time for that reason (i.e my repeated attempts at NC – usually spanning 2-6 mths at a time b4 I crumbled ea time). THEN I learned the TRUTH & suddenly everything MADE SENSE. I haven’t had any probs w NC since then. As one of the ‘lucky ones’ (if any of us is ‘lucky’) I got closure & will move heaven & earth to never look back!!
Just wanted ypu to know yr not the only one reduced to behaving in an undignified manner. x
yes, teachable, we were “off” most of the time as well, for same reasons (I wasn’t completely deluded; I knew the relationshit was dysfunctional But I always went back to it – like a dog to its vomit)
Always somewhere in the deep fog of my fantasy I suspected very strongly that he was not the person I hoped/thought/wanted him to be. At times I could see it with total clarity, but my fear of giving up on my dreams and hopes for the two of us made me very adept at quickly burying those instincts. I was fooling myself. I was also fooled and pulled along by his appearances: (successful yet not arrogant about it/intellectual/talented/extremely intelligent/confident yet unassuming/ambitious yet down to earth/witty etc….
I worked very hard during my final NC/this is “off” attempt (so long ago now I’ve stopped counting) to stay focused on who he had actually shown me he was (total and utterly unavailable/actions not matching words/managing of expectations/passive aggressive control/untrustworthy/secretive etc…) but there was this particular event late last year that nailed my NC right to the floor:
I was watching a TV documentary on the BBC late last year and he was on it – taking part as one of the ‘subjects’. Suffice to say that what I saw/what he said on camera about his life/his values etc. astounded me, cos it was such utter rubbish – a complete falsehood. My chin hit the floor (literally!) I was shocked and rendered utterly speechless. I felt like phoning the BBC to tell them one of their participants had told them a lot of crap about himself. I didn’t do that – too much drama for me, and wtf did it matter to me anyway.
I did though break NC. I emailed him and said WTF? basically. He emailed back some stupid meaningless response based on another lie, and admitted he was “and arse” (his words).
I left it at that. But it was seeing him on TV spouting a load of bull about himself that was for me the final annihilation of any residual fantasy I was harbouring about him. There could be no doubt, no excuses left for him. He had shown his arse on national television and anyone who knew him well must have known that he was fibbing about certain aspects of his life – about his values essentially. I too understood, with no further shred of doubt, that he was a coward and a disingenuous man. NC has been pretty easy ever since. All I could…
Fearless,
What was the topic?
Allison,
in the interests of maintaining his anonymity I don’t like to be too specific but in its broadest sense the topic was about people’s lifestyles (though the actual topic was much more specific than that); it wasn’t so much the topic itself which disturbed me but his representation of himself generally – it was hypocritical, basically, and he did tell one big blatant lie (which was the most astonishing part for me). But, you know, he has what I think is a very false view of himself – he tends to present a person with the values he would like to possess but does not actually possess or live by. For example, he sees and presents himself as deeply religious, charitable and concerned about human rights, which he is if we measure it by giving some money to charity, going to church and fits and starts and signing up to amnesty international, but not if we measure it by his under-handed and very shady relationship behaviour.
He often does not even see (or appears not too) the gobsmacking irony of or the outright contradictions between the kind of things he’d say in general conversation and how he actually behaved in his relationship with me (and I’m sure he has treated very woman in his life exactly the same way). For such a clever and capable man, he sure could be a total berk. More than anything else now, I see him as hypocritical and cowardly (not an attractive trait in a man!( (I suspect he knows this, but just can’t help himself!). I suspect too that other than women who have tried to have a relationships with him most other people in his life would have no idea that he was so cowardly, hypocritical and emotionally inept – you would never guess to look at him!
Forgive me, I do go on… but feel I should clarify regarding the TV documentary I have spoken of that my ex was on: He and the other participants were merely selected as examples of ordinary people/ordinary families/average Joes living in Britain today – they were not on the programme because they had something odd or remarkable or weird about them. The topic was not his field of expertise in any way (which surprised me – I did wondered wtf is he doing on this programme!); I suspect he ended up on it cos he’d know people in the media (through his line of work) and someone probably thought he’d be amenable to appearing.
Fearless,
Thank you for sharing!
BTW, I suspect he does know who he is, I don’t believe anyone is that delusional. Does he have close friends? Certainly, they have witnessed shady behavior.
“But, you know, he has what I think is a very false view of himself – he tends to present a person with the values he would like to possess but does not actually possess or live by”.
Ah Fearless, this is yet another thing these types must all have picked up from the Universal EU Handbook! My ex used to go on about how he was teaching his teenage daughter the “Three C’s” – Comitment, Consistency and Consequences – plus the importance of Fidelity in a relationship. Trouble is, he displayed not a single one of these qualities or values himself – though he seriously believed that he did. Talk about “do as I say, not as I do”…!!
Forgive me all as I get on my narcissist soap box..again.
Narcissists mimic human behavior, say what they believe to be the socially acceptable thing i.e. what others want to hear and have zero insight into their own behavior. They also have zero interest & zero ability to change or learn from their experiences. They are just pure evil masquarading as people.
“You may have missed some code amber and red alerts that indicated who they are, or may have skipped that discovery phase of dating where you could have sussed out their past. Sometimes, we can be so enamoured and propelling them up onto a pedestal, that they could tell us that they’re The Most Perfect Person On Earth That Does Platinum Coated Poos and we’d believe them – that doesn’t make it so though.”
I so have missed them!
1) He was married with kids and said to me “when I love someone, I am always faithfull”. RED
2) He told me: “I have no friends. Too busy to maintain relationship with them”. AMBER
3) He said: “Sometimes I hate myself for doing certain things to people. I cannot help myself. I am a coward.” RED
4) He was nice (he said). He “believed” in “not hurting his wife and other people” – “I’d rather lie to them. Truth can be so painful. It is better for everyone not to know the whole truth sometimes.” RED
etc.
To cut long story short: He cheated on his wife with me. Then cheated on both of us with a friend of mine. Never broke up with me, had to find out on my own. She is no longer my friend not because she is in his harem now. But because I tried to tell “all about him and warn her”. I ended up accused of trying to separate them, got called a jealous cow with no self respect. Which … honestly … was partially true … true being the self respect part.
So, yes, I know who he is. He has done that to other people who are yet to see his real himself. Does it make me happier? Not really but I don’t have to ask myself the “why me?” question.
How could I ever think that a guy who would lie to his wife and unable to be friends with people, will ever be honest and faithfull to me or become my friend??? I don’t dream on anymore. 150 days of NC on Sat.
Dear NAT, great article. You have helped me so much! Thank you thank you thank you.
Warm regards to all from Prague
lucky star
I love Prague! What a fabulous city – only been once; want to go again! Your “friend” will see it too, in her own good time (she’s got the short straw – god help her).
Luckystar, you are lucky to be in Prague! How could anyone feel depressed or less than there! I am lucky to travel often on business to Prague, was there one week ago. Prague tops my ranking list of most beautiful cities, this is off topic but I feel I have to share this with Luckystar. Go out and party, girl!
Fedup, my dad is the same. He has slightly improved over the years though. He was always chasing his family, making them laugh at all times, always calling them (He’s still like this) and wouldn’t acknlowledge his children’s or wife’s existence. We wouldn’t even get a greeting from him. Now, he tries to talk to us a little but I find it hard to hold a normal conversation, like one would try to with someone who’s a stranger and doesn’t have a bond with you. Over the years, I tried to make him see how he treats us but in the end all that happened was that I got depressed. So, I stopped it and just started focusing on my own health instead of trying to make him see. That’s awful of your father to critisize your mother’s cooking. My father can’t cook at all critisizes food my mum cooks. But, yes, I used to wonder who my dad really is, the joker and caring man infront of others or nasty, violent and distant with us. I just know that it’s not as bad as before. I really hope things get better for your family.
It’s ok to grieve for family relationships not being what we need Magnolia. For me that process has been lifelong. I often think, when I hear stories like yours, that maybe my lot in life was the easier one, although I understand we can’t really compare ourselves to others.
Each persons pain is our own & so are our experiences. As the topic of this thread says though, you know a side of your Dad that others in your family either don’t see or want to acknowledge as problematic or distressing. A co-dependant Mother on the other hand, might not be perfect either, but nothing is life ever is I don’t think. Even behind the most sparkling picket fences there are tales of sadness. This I know based on my previous work.
The only thing that comes to mind is being grateful what we do have. You have the gidt of high intelligence, motivation, insight & the ability to stand by your experiences in the face of no agreement. These are no trivial attributes & in fact are wonderful strengths which not everyone has. Treasure them. They make you who you are, which perfectly fine, even if others disagree. As you say it’s what we think of ourselves that matters, rather than what others think of us.
PS It’s not effed up to want an intimate relationship with someone who will be our allies in life. I think most ppl desire this & it’s a perfectly reasonable desire.
T
Grace / Lori…
Maybe this yoga teacher EU (or is he AC?) is teaching new style of yoga… ‘rumpy pumpy yoga’ or levitates? I can’t see the attraction otherwise! Care to share Lori?
(Just kidding – giggle intended) LOL
No, he’s a spin instructor, not a yoga instructor. But I did have a good laugh with what you said. I started taking yoga classes to get away from his spin classes, but do go to one of his spin classes where I have girlfriends who know of his behavior. After class, my two friends and I will go out to eat, and lately, other women have been approaching us, hanging out with us, etc. It’s through that group where I hear about him. He’s an EUM narcissist-type. I unfortunately have a mutual friend with the woman he is currently sleeping with/using, but I tell her I don’t want to talk about her. So far, that relationship has been ok.
Lori,
Why are you staying engaged in this drama? I would find another class or gym.
Lori – my EUM was also a spin instructor.. i heard from my friend that fitness coaches have “shady” life. They are willing to sleep with their customer just to “sell” themselves..
I was with him for 3 months and he’s not only EUM, but also in a relationship with a girl. The first time he approached me, he said that he has just been with that girl for over a week! Can u believe that?
And he said that he chose to be with her because she can accept ALL of his flaws (including cheating, lying, and being an AC).
And when i finally confronted him to chose her or me, he said lots of BS like, “oh, i saw my GF first so i should be with her, i don’t want to hurt her, i need to be “responsible” with her (and yet, you fooled around with me *_*)..
It lasted for 3 months and i’m getting out of it now. The drama, the confusion, the anger, the waiting, the hoping, guessing… all make me feel tired emotionally and physically. Today is the 5th days of NC..
@Teachable, seriously, I was not involved with him – but a guy friend of mine is friends with a yoga teacher at our gym. Because he was handsome and a yoga teacher everyone thought he was so “enlightened”. Yet I heard the stories relayed to my friend – he was teaching rumpy-pumpy yoga. I learned that he was screwing a lot of women, as he did yoga class house calls – up to three women a day (that was the Valentine’s Day record – breakfast, lunch and dinner). I could never look at him again with a straight face. You just can’t assume anything!!
Hi Natalie and everyone who posted and is yet to post. This article was very timey as a reminder to trust my judgement (it can be unsettling to be the only one who does not agree) which is sound and informative. My instincts re the AC were right from the off but because of my own needs, wants and desire I chose to ignore them. The anger I felt was self owned as a result of my own gravings. My eyes were wide open and my legs were closed which allowed me the opportunbity to learn about this AC aand myself. Now he never promised me a rose garden and until I started asking some real questions and watched his movements I had lived with the fantasy of his potential. This AC has helped to remind me that it is the my good judgement and reality that I seek. No more dreaming about potential for me.
I’m off now to tend my rose garden.
This was different from what I expected the post to be about, but it’s still a good post nonetheless.
And “platinum coated poos”? Classic.
Anon
The best thing to do as far as psychpaths / sociopaths & ppl w narcissistic personality disorder are concerned is STAY AWAY to protect yrself. These are dangerous ppl who will not only destroy all who cross their paths but in some cases, are capable of violence & even murder with no remorse. Allowing yrself to become ‘obsessed’ with such types of ppl, once you recognise the REAL them, is not healthy & playing with fire. Needless to say ppl who play with fire, inevitably get BURNED. Forewarned is forearmed.
Cheers.
Broadsided
Yr considering the appropriate way to treat ppl in the breakup process from the perspective of yrself ie a person with obvious decent values. The reasons AC’s don’t behave similarly I think is because they don’t share those values. They CARE about treating ppl w disrespect, even those they’ve been romantically involved with. Some simply lack the skills & know no other way due to their life experiences & severe deficits in psychosocial functioning. Others feel pleasure in inflicting pain on others. To them it’s all a game of POWER. Irrespective of what type of they are (cowardly developmentally delayed EU’s or outright abusive AC’s) OUR response needs to be the same. As Nat say’s FLUSH & learn to love OURSELVES first to the degree that our self esteem is restored to a state where we simply won’t settle for anyone (romantic or otherwise) not treating us with honesty, decency, care & respect. I’m hopeful of getting to that place one day & I think I’m well on the way, but I still have a lot of work to do before I will fit to try again in the dating game. I’m happy to take my time. I know my pattern well. When vulnerable I make appalling dating choices. So no dating for me until my vulnerability (financially, workwise, spiritually & emotionally) is in a better place. I miss male attention in the meantime but thts ok. My therapist, for the first time ever in fact, is a married male who happens to have also been a social aquaintence of 25 yrs. Never having had a Father (after growing up in state care frm 3yo onward & being rejected by my adoptive Father at age 13) my therapist is now providing me with a model of a healthy male in a safe, supportive therapeautic relationship. I’ve always had a female therapist in the past, but this time, a healthy male role model is just what I need. I thank my lucky stars to be so fortunate to have him. It’s helping me to come to terms w lots of things including xAC & abuse by males in my childhood.
It helps me to remember not ALL men are bastards (a view which is easy to fall into after working in the domestic violence sector). And similarly, not all men are EU or AC’s I haven.t lost hope of meeting a decent one eventually. Now is not the time though, but I will know when it is.
T
PS Anon,
I also think it’s importatnt not to lay 100% of ‘blame’ on non protective Mothers. Some suffer mental illness & can’t protect themselves, let alone their children. Many also have abuse histories & don’t understand what they are modelling to their children by being involved w EU men or AC’s as they haven’t yet processed their own child abuse histories. Violent men (including emotional violence) are responsible for their behaviour, not their partners. Mothers do have a responsibility to protect their children, just like Fathers do. When either parent realises the other is damaging children in their there is a responsibility to act to prilotect the children. My comment was more aimed at Mothers who know that their children are being abused & fail to act. Sometimes this is because they have a lack of options. Once welfare services provide support & options & they reject these & abandon the children in favour of the perpetrator I think a question of serious culpability & collusion comes into play. That is the stuff I can’t empathsise with.
Sorry Teachable, if someone is incapable of protecting their child or caring for it, or worse, uses it to feed their sick, twisted needs; they have no business having children. I grew up with a sick, mentally ill sadist. She is 100000000000% responsible for her actions and I will go to my grave holding that belief. I am not attacking you, it is just that this is too, too close to my life experience to remain neutral on the subject.
Lori,
Don’t waste time distracting yourself wondering what these other women see in Come In Spinner. Just stay away from his classes & anyone who doesn’t respect yr boundary re not wanting updates on him. Who cares why these other women fall for his BS? Sad for them but not *yr* business. *Yr* business is healing yrself. Stick with that & you’ll soon reap the rewards.
T
Teachable
Have we been reading the same books? ha ha. I know so much about sociopaths, narcissists and the likes. I grumbled; why did I have to know these things? Why was I exposed to them? But knowledge is a powerful tool.
I didn’t see it at the time, but now I see how the ex manipulated me this way. He’d say things like, “You’ve known me for years,” when in fact I’d only known him for about a year. Or he’d say, “You know me better than anyone.” I was a little confused, but also flattered. Now, I just see that he was trying to create an intimacy that didn’t exist. It was part of his narcissistic brainwashing of me.
There were times when I knew the REAL them a bit more than most ” The darkest sides possible of course “.. Like the one that told me he used to KILL people in mexico for a living, yeah – he did not tell the wife that one, or that he had numerous sex partners besides her.. One of those creeps from a date site long ago that posed as a single man, then confessed only when I knew better.
Perfect timing. A coworker that I dated (knowing it was a horrible idea) recently got engaged, about 7 month after i put an end to his repeated mind fuckery but washing my hands of him. you see he wasn’t ready for the pressure of a relationship.
i am happily dating someone else who is the polar opposite of him….considerate, mature, responsible, adult…yet hearing he got engaged still made my stomach sink a little bit. i allowed myself one night of obsessive thinking (and really i didn’t use the whole night..i got distracted but other interesting things) and realized that the thing that was driving me most crazy was knowing i’m going ot have to hear coworkers gush about it. only 3 people at work knew we dated, so there is none of that considerate “don’t talk about it in front of her” going on. people say “she’s so lucky, he’s such a catch” and i want to offer a huge guffaw and point out how very wrong they are! but at the end of the day, it helps to have my three friends who do know, cast him ugly looks and comment that he is a major fuck nut for not even having the courtesy to tell me before i heard it through the gossip mill.
i have no trouble understanding why their relationship is “working” where ours failed. it is long distance. ideal for someone who finds the basic tenants of being a friend to be “too much pressure”.
mostly, i feel bad for this woman. i don’t believe he treats her any better than he treated me. he’s just not capable.
Can I say this has been the best post I have read??? OMG! Describes me to a T and it applies in all areas of my life, drom romantic to professional. Lately I’ve been dealing with a bunch of crap from some friends and people are all over these people sucking up to them. I know the real them and based onthat I want nothing to do with them any longer, as for the rest…ket them figure it out on their own time.
As far as the ex, his gf thinks he’s the last Coca Cola in the desert. I beg to differ, but it’s not my job to point that out any longer. I know how he treated me and how I refuse to let anyone else treat me. She can claim he is Mr. Wonderful, I know his true colors and that is good enough for me.
Thank you Jesus for Nat’s wisdom! =)
Fearless…
Reading all of different posts, tese EUM/AC’s are SO predictable. Sadly, when we’re caught up with them, so too are our responses! Just glad you had the ‘seeing him on TV’ moment to trigger yr final NC.
Isn’t NC liberating?! I’m not as far along as you sound yet, but having just clocked up the 2 mth mark, KNOWING there are no ‘back doors left ajar’ is helping me no end. I’m very physically ill here & unfortunately wont be able to sit my exam after all for this reason, but just knowing I’m free to focus on my health without the issue of him lurking in the shady shadows even, is a huge relief!
Hugs. T
Hi Tulipa,
I’m glad you’ve found a balance that works for you with your Mum. One thing that’s true is that we cant change others, only ourselves. You’ve realised this & that’s a great strength. Good for you! x
Outergirl,
I’m glad I’ve learned what I have. I had previously a very innocent view of ppl & the world, which left me the proverbial sitting duck! Once I learned about these things though I started to recover. I realised my xAC’s behaviour wasn’t about me – in fact it had nothing whatsoever to do with me! My only part in what happened was being vulnerable & seriously ill when he re-appeared in my life (i.e ripe pickings for a con man). Had this not been the case I doubt he’d have gotten as far as he did. Anyway, take what you’ve learned & let it help you to be more self aware & self protective. I’m trying to do that now & I do think it’s helping. All the best.
T
What I have often found is that when you think someone is so great, it is easy to develop tunnel vision. My ex EUM was good-looking, smart, friendly, outgoing, etc. and seemed like he had everything going for him . After the “honeymoon” period was over, I became convinced that there must be something wrong with me that made him treat me the way that he did and true to form, I went into denial mode followed by the Renovator/Sherlock Holmes investigator (driving myself crazy in the process) which finally culminated in the getting the hell out of Dodge.
The funny part is that after I had time to have an honest reflection about our relationship and what it really was (wasn’t), I came to realize that other people saw him as I did. What really was eye-opening was when I had the chance to talk with some of my friends, they opened up and admitted that they thought he was a jerk and couldn’t understand all of the hoopla and why I was literally worshipping at his B.S. shrine and so enthralled with him. Now that I look back, I wonder what it was I ever saw in him either but it was especially insightful to know I wasn’t the only problem in the relationship and that I wasn’t alone in seeing him for what he really was in that time and place.
Loved the quote “When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.”~Maya Angelou. I should I realised when I found an email my ex wrote to his friend that I wasn’t as good looking as his usual girlfriends that he would never change. I should have realised everytime he spoke about how girls should be skinny, how girls should be this and that, that he would never change. Instead I spent 3 years trying to change myself and guess what, he still dumped me and went off with someone else!!! And everyone at our place of work thinks he is such a great guy and love hanging around him and here is me knowing all his bad, mad and dangerous sides. For a while I have thought it was all me, well maybe he was just horrible with me, maybe he was just controlling with me, maybe it was me that brought out all his bad sides. Now I can finally say it isnt me, its him….unfortunately it took us getting pregnant and him leaving me high and dry for me to get this.
Thank you for this. This goes for family relationships too. My brother is cheating me out of my inheritance, and then trying to convince me I deserve it because I am a lousy person; and my impression is everyone around him thinks he is such a great guy. If he is doing this to his own sister, he isn’t such a great guy, and others know that too. Food for thought.
I just lived through this post, and I am so thankful for the experience. I used to spend way too much time thinking about what my ex’s are doing and how much happier they are without me and worrying about what was wrong with me. No more.
I went through my boyfriend’s messages with his ex. I could have written just about every single word she wrote to him. I felt like I was reading our relationship. (Although, he did seem to learn at least one thing…he did make sure he contacted me every day.)
This stung a little because I also saw his cheating pattern. In fact, the MO and his excuses were identical. Nothing there had changed. He’s even a great accuser. (She asked him why he had not called, messaged, or responded to her while he was out of town. He said he was busy. She replied that he wasn’t too busy to comment on photos and write on the walls of his Facebook friends. His reply was that she always uses his words against him.)
My point is that it’s true. These guys don’t change over night–and some never do. What he does to you, he’s done to someone else, and he will continue to act this way.