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The difficultly with compromising ourselves in order to have a ‘some crumbs relationship’ rather than ‘no crumbs at all’, is that when the inevitable happens and we end up unhappy and/or things come to an end, we wonder why we weren’t ‘enough’ and where we went ‘wrong’. “I was willing to make ends meet with your crumbs and put them through the exaggeration oven and turn them into a loaf while making up the shortfall with my love, devotion and lack of boundaries and you still don’t want me?”
If you’ve ever been in this situation where you take a slide down a slippery slope and opt for people who are unavailable for a healthy relationship with you but then try to make them available, it becomes increasingly obvious that your needs cannot be met but you keep lowering your expectations, desires and needs to make it ‘easier’ for them to stick around. It also becomes increasingly obvious that no matter what you feel for this person, they aren’t ‘technically’ enough but the fact that you’d be willing to put up with crumbs would suggest that it would feel like a lot to you because in comparison to what you’re giving to you, it suddenly looks like a lot.
All of this messing around with ‘scale’ is very confusing and when things don’t work out it hurts and does a number on your ego and your head. It doesn’t make sense.
- “I would have been willing to put up with your crumbs and you still don’t want me?”
- “I took my single self off the market to be available for a part-time lover and have believed in you, listened to you like an armchair psychologist and acted like I don’t have needs so I don’t look like ‘them’ or scare you off, and it’s still not enough for you to leave? You’ve practically made out like you live with a psycho/tyrant/in a living hell but we’re still not together?”
- “I suppressed my needs, expectations etc and did everything you asked and expected of me even when my soul ached at what I was putting myself through and I would cry myself to sleep at night while my friends and family kept telling me you’re no good and I’m still not enough?”
- “I gave up everything. I’ve hardly got any friends / I’ve lost my family / I’ve lost credibility / my job performance has gone down the toilet and it’s still not enough?”
It haunts you that this person doesn’t want you and it scares you when you know that you had no business giving them the time of day let alone the steam off your pee. It guts you that everything you’ve tried to be is an identity especially cultivated and formulated for them. What are you supposed to do now? You’ve customised yourself and it’s not like you can return you to the shop and get a new version. Who is going to want you now? What are you supposed to do? Find another version of them to make the investment worthwhile? Incidentally, that’s how you end up repeating an unhealthy pattern trying to right the wrongs of the past.
It feels devastating and even humiliating that it feels like this involvement has cost you everything and not only wasn’t it ‘enough’ but they’re not ‘suffering’ like you. Trust me, they’re not ‘suffering’ like you because they’re not suffering from malnutrition like you! They’ve reaped the benefits! You’ll also feel like this if you felt idolised by them (in the beginning of course…) and felt needed/beautiful/important/popular and now it’s stopped and what you thought was ‘enough’, even if in reality it was only for a short time, now isn’t ‘enough’. Where did I go ‘wrong’? you wonder. Why have I been discarded?
A relationship that has you being and doing these things is a dangerous one whether your attempts are driven by you or him/her. No one who truly loves and cares about you would have you jumping through hoops nor would they feel comfortable with you doing it as a way of showing your ‘love’. It would put them on a pedestal and make for a hugely imbalanced relationship that just isn’t sustainable.
This is not what love or an even moderately healthy relationship looks like; carnage looks like this.
There comes a time when you have to start questioning the madness of wondering why you weren’t enough for someone who wasn’t enough or whose crumbs shouldn’t have been enough for you. The fact that you would have been prepared to live off crumbs doesn’t make this person ‘right’ for you nor does it mean that the relationship ‘should’ have been viable.
There also comes a point when you have to ask why crumbs are enough for you in the first place. Why is this an uncomfortable comfortable for you? Why does this feel like ‘home’? Who are you really trying to be enough for?
Whatever you’re willing to settle for is what you’re going to get. If you’re willing to settle for crumbs it means that you’re willing to settle for less than mutual love, care, trust, respect and a relationship with intimacy, commitment, progression, balance and consistency and that’s before you even get near shared values.
When you’re enough for you, you come as you are.
You don’t sign up or continue to participate in what feels like a permanent audition for someone who it feels like you’re never enough. Believe me as someone who went from childhood to adult feeling like I couldn’t please (I should’ve tried harder, got a higher grade, a better gift, looked a certain way, not made mistakes), I know the madness of trying to please the unpleasable stops when you don’t base how you feel about you on others, but more importantly, you don’t subject you to living the life of an inadequate performing seal.
I stopped trying to be enough for my parents through my ‘romantic’ partners. I’ve had to learn through trial and error how to be enough for me and the day I stopped doing this is when I felt a weight off. It’s liberating to be a grownup and I no longer subsist on a crumb diet and abandon myself.
The irony is that we feel tortured because we can’t seem to reach the tipping point of pleasing somebody to be ‘enough’ and yet we ourselves don’t feel ‘good enough’ and are comparing, feeling less then and going for the long shot of being perfect and so essentially, the very thing that we feel wounded by from others is what we’re doing to ourselves.
If you don’t feel ‘good enough’ and wonder why you’re not enough, you are the person in your life that you cannot please and when you please you, believe me, you’ll know that you’ve done more than enough and see the shortfall from others and tell them to jog on not go chasing after them!
When you accept that you are enough as is instead of rejecting you for not being your version of perfect, you set boundaries with you and with others and won’t subject you to the merciless and constantly moving goalposts and the bullshit whims of others.
When you’re enough for you, you won’t wonder why you’re not enough for crumbs because you won’t be prepared to settle for less than what you’re already doing for you. You also won’t exaggerate the sh*t out of someones paltry efforts. You’ll also question why they aren’t enough and use that insight to guide you to a more fulfilling relationship both with you and others, instead of equating those answers to ‘failings’ on your part. You’ll see that him/her not being enough doesn’t mean that you’re not but it does mean that you need to move on.
Why aren’t you ‘enough’? Because you’re not supposed to be enough for something and someone that would sell you short, when you’re already ‘enough’ and will be enough in a mutual, healthy relationship. You truly are worth more.
Your thoughts?
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Oh good one, Natalie. “I was willing to make ends meet with your crumbs and put them through the exaggeration oven and turn them into a loaf while making up the shortfall with my love, devotion and lack of boundaries and you still don’t want me?” Wow–I’ve been there. It’s so destructive and I noticed over the holidays, via FB, people who have not been in touch at all tried the “Happy New Year” crap. I didn’t wish it back, they are out of my life. No one is that special and what I’ve found is they throw crumbs to the next one too–it’s just how they operate. Best to see it the first time it happens, don’t look back and keep walkin’ because it only goes on and on that way. Caring people just don’t do it ever and if they are not interested, as I have been myself, they tell the other person and don’t lead them on in any way. Thanks a ton as usual for more insight!
so I’m divorcing my husband… a good man who loves me…. with the hopes that my unavailable that I’ve been seeing for over 5 years, will finally leave his wife because i took the big step. We told our spouses 6 months ago that we were leaving them because we weren’t happy and we were both in love with someone else. He went back to her 4 times because “the kids were sad”. I told him a week ago about my divorce. The day i told him, he professed his love for me but didn’t say anything about him taking a step. He bobbed and weaved and said he’s so busy. After 4 days of not hearing from him I emailed him that he ran away, like a coward. He said he hasn’t called me because he’s been so busy at work. That was Thursday. Today’s monday. It’s been a week since I told him. Please, someone tell me- what is wrong with me??? why would i leave a man who doesn’t want a divorce and has been doing everythign in his power to keep me… all for someone who has been tossing me his crumbs for over 5 years. i feel like my head is going to just explode 🙁
not to mention, I’ve been married for 22 years and have 3 children of my own. I’m 42 and he’s 56.
Mary,
take a closer look at what you are missing inside. Sounds like this new guy is NOT the one who is going to make you whole. You are projecting a fantasy onto him
Mary the question I ask is when will your husband get wind of this website; he needs to be here because you obviously gave him some crumbs.
Stop and look around you; you are not the only one who is suffering. Maybe this was the way it was supposed to work out. Affairs rarely end with the two lovers hurting everyone and getting away scot free, right?
Dancing you always tell it like it is. It’s one thing to be used as a doormat and fbg, but to come on here and complain about someone using/lying to you when you are doing it to someone else is a whole other ball game. We all need to check ourselves.
Im 38yo and never been married. Ive always picked the Mr Unavailables and wondered what was wrong with me. It was crazy, but not any more. My last straw was only a couple of weeks ago with another EUM and now im looking after me cos his “crumbs” are crap!!!You are lucky to have a man who loves you and to have been married for so long. I would try to work it out with my husband if i were you if he’ll have you back. Good Luck!!
MARY..your husband deserves someone who can give him all the love.care.respect that he deserves.I feel empathy 4 him. Your MM will probally never leave his wife and if and when he does it will not be 2 build a life with you but with someone else. That’s how it usually works. You 2 have destroyed 2 families in the worst way possible.He is ignoring u on purpose. He does not want a future with you. Now that u filed 4 divorce he is in panic mode. Take some alone time and sort ur life out. I hope u have a strong support system because u need one.
he cant come thru 4 you. Its game over.
ant a future with you in my opinion . You r living in fantasy land.Spend some time alone
Because you were in an affair and it was exciting. Once you are both free it won’t be the exciting affair anymore. The illusion will be broken. It will eventually be the same thing you have now with your husband. Men rarely leave even when they promise you that they will. I have seen this situation more times than I can count with friends. I doubt your man will have the balls to leave hate to say and most likely it won’t work with you single and him married. Move on…enjoy your freedom. It won’t work with the guy you left your man for. The relationship started out under lies and that rarely works out. Sorry to give you the bleak facts but it is what it is.
What did you really expect to happen in a situation like that? Two married people having an affair and then skipping off into the sunset while the families they left behind are smoldering in a pile of betrayal? Really?
You left your husband to “prove” your commitment… well, he certainly didn’t send his life into an upheaval, did he?
Mary, I don’t know you and we are two different people with different backgrounds and lives but I can tell you from personal experience, the MM is not worth it and it can’t last if you are both empty people looking for someone to fill something. Work on YOU and Fight to keep your marriage together. Do whatever it takes to save that union and run away fast from the married one. You will only feel misery and total regret if you don’t TRY to save your marriage. You deserve that, the man who married you deserves that and your children deserve that. If he cheated on his WIFE with whommm he has children to be with you, what makes you think he won’t do the same to you in time? Seek professional counseling. I didn’t and I lost the best thing I ever had. I just didn’t know it at the time. Hindsight is 20 20.
Mary, 15 years ago I was involved with a married man. He lied about being separated when we first met and we spent a great deal of time out together . This man was a professional liar. He had his wife convinced I was stalking him, he had me convinced he was leaving her. It was the ego boost this man desired, to have two woman in love with him. His wife finally did leave him and well, he left me after three years of me giving him what he needed. He got remarried soon after we split up to the woman he was cheating on me with…This man is not going to leave his wife, if he did, he would have. You need to look inside your heart and find out whats missing in there. You’re not going to find it with this guy and frankly, if you’re not in love with your husband, don’t do this to him either. Figure it out, counseling helps. There is nothing ‘wrong” with you. Sometimes we have an emptiness that we try to fill in whatever way makes sense. I’ve used drugs, alcohol and men to fill that void and now, at close to 50, I’ve learned that only self love can truly make us whole. Love yourself girl, take care of yourself. Do the right thing by your husband. This MM? Lose him.
Mary,
I understand exactly where you are coming from. I am 44 with 2 teenage children. I divorced my husband of 20 years in 2010. I had been in an affair since 2008, so we are now going on 5 years. He is 52. He was separated from his wife for a full year and had filed for divorce. They ended up back together “for the kids”. The kids are almost 16 and 21. The 21 year old does not live at home. His wife knows about me, we live in the same community and have friends that overlap. I feel like Hester Prynne. I do believe there is no relationship between her and him and that it is just a business arrangement for now. They have a “schedule” whereas one is free every other weekend. We are fairly out in the open, but it doesn’t make it any easier. The more we are able to do together, the more I want and I will never be happy as long as he is still married. He has made it very clear that he will not divorce until he feels his son is “set” as he puts it. Makes me want to gag that I accept that. I do feel like I just get the crumbs, no matter how much time we get to spend together. He is still LIVING with her. I know I could find an available man, I do not have self esteem issues, but I do know there is something wrong with me with regard to how I view this relationship. I have talked to a therapist and my relationship has been equated to an addiction. I do not have an addictive personality, so that is hard for me to grasp, but when it was presented in an analogy, it made sense. I get so frustrated for allowing myself to settle for less than a healthy relationship. I believe I am a smart person and I recognize the terrible dysfunction I am living. I always say that no one makes me feel the way he does, but I only have that feeling when I am with him, which is maybe once a week, so the rest of the time I am full of angst over it all….Anyway, just wanted to let you know you are not alone.
Delaney
“I do believe there is no relationship between her and him and that it is just a business arrangement for now.” She’s his wife. If you think that is “no relationship” you need to take a close look at your own beliefs and values. Hopefully, you yourself won’t end up in a marriage that another woman sees as “nothing” while she sexes up your husband once a week. I have found that we reap what we sow. It’s not to judge you, but when we can’t hold onto our values, we allow others into our lives who can’t hold onto values either. I know angelina jolie bucked the trend, but Bradd Pitt did leave his marriage pret-ty quickly. Once it’s dragged on for over a few months, the “leaving his wife for you” ship has sailed.
For what it’s worth pretty much 90% of the OWs who comment believe that the wife is irrelevant, a bitch, or frigid. I am sceptical. And even if she is, how is that your problem? It wouldn’t be if you weren’t trying to squeeze a relationship out of her husband.
You deny self-esteem issues.
I am reminded of my first meeting with my counsellor. As I recounted the MM/returning childhood sweetheart hitting me up via facebook, and the woeful crumby relationship before that, I emphatically said it wasn’t a self-esteem problem. How he did not bang me upside the head and say HELLO! I do not know. Instead, he kept a straight face.
Any woman who accepts this level of shite either has self-esteem issues or will do very soon.
I recommend Nat’s Dreamer and the Fantasy Realtionship book. Six days a week you’re fantasising up a storm. No wonder rocket launchers go off when he turns up on day seven with his pocketful of crumbs.
If you feel like your head is going to explode you are justified. I would suggest you back way up to 5 years ago when you started up with this other man. Why did you do that? The fact that you have 3 children, and indicated your husband is basically a good husband, I would say you are carrying around guilt about cheating on him. (you did not mention that he knows about this other man so I’m assuming he does not). The guilt needs to be worked thru first, whatever it takes counseling whatever.
This other man is a taker. He likes the variety of having 2 women, needing what each of you have to offer to him. He’s using his children as scapegoats and seemingly doesn’t want to leave his wife/family.
YOU deserve better than anything he has to offer because he has nothing to offer to you. Not because you are “not enough” but because he is!
I am going thru this too (different circumstances but same issue). I’m out of here asap!
You will have a long road with the anger and hurt, live it and appreciate it as there’s a valuable lesson in there which you have been chosen to learn…I know it sucks but you’ll sustain yourself and come out much happier. Good luck and Be Blessed!
Mary, if he had wanted to leave, he would have already. I hate men who use their kids as an excuse – why didn’t they think about the kids when they were having the affair in the first place?
Maybe you’re not happy in your marriage, I don’t know. But divorcing your husband for this other bloke will not bring you happiness. And you deserve better.
Hi Mary,
That is a sad story. But just because someone loves you doesn’t mean you’re good for them – I’m thinking of your husband here. There’s a lot of fallbacking going on with the wife of your MM (4 times?) and your husband who sounds like he persists after you saying you’re in love with someone else.
I’ve been there: left someone good who loved me. But that situation in itself doesn’t mean I abandoned a healthy relationship; it’s not even half a healthy relationship if someone “loves” someone who treats them poorly, as I did the person who tried desperately to be good to me and keep me around.
I wish I could have worked out something with him but I couldn’t; I left, and there was no guy waiting when I did. You’ve said nothing about how YOU feel about your husband. Your mind isn’t on him so I suppose it’s in his interest too that you let him get on with his life.
I wish I could also say that you’ll immediately find what you’re looking for, in a relationship or out of it. It may take a long time. I left the “loving” ex over nine years ago now, and had only a couple AC relationships since, and have been celibate and single for over two years. As U2 sings, “I still haven’t found what I’m looking for.”
One thing I will say, though, is that the question “what’s wrong with me” is less useful than “what is right about me”? I.e., why do I feel this way and why does it make sense that I do? Why do I react to these feelings self-destructively instead of constructively? Once you figure out why your feelings make sense – i.e. what motivates you, what your needs are – you can start learning from them.
Hi Magnolia, I hope you are doing well and standing firm in “No Crumbs Aloud”…That’s a spin off from a sign my daughter had on her door when she was little. It read: “No Boys Aloud”. Sure wish I had that little sign now. It would go on the front door of the house.
And Mary, I just want to say hello and hugs to you. I was an OW waiting for the exMM to leave his wife for 2 years while I subsisted on crumbs. Come to find out, he never left even tho the last kid left for college. My head did explode ie. my denial bubble burst. Thankfully, I found BR and I’ve been picking up the pieces of my head. Sounds like you may be in a similar situ. I’d stick with BR and order every single book by Natalie and read them three times. Then take a two-week vaca and read every post on BR and every comment.
I wouldn’t advise you to go back to your husband and make the relationship work – sounds like you both want different things and relationships end and that’s ok. You shouldn’t use your husband as a fallback position even conceptually. Doesn’t he deserve to be with someone who adores him? Sounds like you’re right to walk away. However, you shouldn’t be thinking of leaving him for this other man. You’re not taking responsibility for your decision by doing so and need to affect change based on YOU not in the wavering affections of someone else. I think you would really do well by talking to someone about this huge change in your life. Be kind to yourself and get the support you need in YOUR choice, not your lover’s. Love is a verb. Its a doing word. If he can talk the talk… then well done – so can any number of us. But if he can’t see it through in action, then you need to look to yourself for this big step.
Mary,
Like Annie says I can also feel your pain. There is nothing wrong with you, I think your fantasy bubble has burst and when it does it hurts. It doesn’t sound as if your Mr Unavailable is there for you at crunch time and maybe he never really was. I have experienced this myself and I know how much it hurts. Perhaps you need some time on your own to work through all that has happened and to see if your husband can give you what you want and also if you can give him what he wants. It sounds as if it’s probably not too late to work it out with your husband if that’s what you both want. I feel sad for you and your husband. As for Mr Unavailable leave him to it. It’s all come to a head as it inevitably was going to. I wish you luck and take care.
Excellent as usual!
I have to wonder– why do people seem to think it is so bad to be single? I have been on my own for about 4 years now… just dating here and there and unfortunately not meeting anyone other than an assclown (able to recognize and reject instead of justifying), but I have to say that I have been happy. Being single is time to get to know me and be happy and confident in me. I can finally KNOW that I am enough because I can enjoy being on my own. I would like to meet someone, but I am fine with just being me for now. I’ve been enjoying the process of getting myself in shape and concentrating on the career change I want to make… So much easier and happier to do when you aren’t messing with an assclown. A nice guy along the way would be great, but it hasn’t happened and I am okay with that.
I find I am getting annoyed by some friends of mine. Some single friends are all upset that they don’t have men and will put up with all kinds of drama just to have one, ANY one. And when it doesn’t work, they feel like they are not enough and their lives crumble for a while until some other fantasy guy can make them think that maybe now they will be complete. Just be complete on your own!
And then I have married friends who sometimes say things that are insulting (though maybe they don’t realize it) like, “My husband is finally back from his trip– hated feeling like I was single again.” What is so bad about being single? Do these people look at me with pity? I suppose they fear being me (single) or assume we single people are crying on Saturday nights, are bored or are enduring bad dates. I may not be happily married, but I AM happily single. I am happy that I can be happy without a man.
To the engaged friend who dissed being single on facebook… I remember how you jumped straight from one bad guy to the next and stayed until a new guy came along, and I remember the struggles you went through to force your fiance to change and how you hated him but couldn’t leave because you greatly feared being alone, so you got back together and are supposedly in therapy together and you argue over silly things (usually seems like a power struggle when I witness it)… well, you would hate to be single like me, but I would hate to be giving my whole life to what you have going. (had to vent that one off my chest)
I do believe that when you are enough with yourself, you will find a healthy relationship. Being single is not a stigma. It is a chance to be liberated and to be enough!
Well said! I sure share the sentiment that I’m “happily single”– no need to “put up” with some guy just so I can avoid being alone.
I also agree with how some people in couples don’t realize their words sting for singles, just by “bragging” about how great it is that their S/O is there for them. I wonder how many of the same people are secretly living in silent torment of a toxic relationship but are too afraid to be on their own?
I know I came from one and at the time I was in it, I thought I was happy. God knows how grateful I am to have had the opportunity to get to know my single self. I am having a lot more fun without all the drama in my life!
@Kristen. I very much agree with everything you just said. I too am single surrounded by a bunch of friends in unhealthy/unhappy relationships. The more I listen to them, the more I truly appreciate being on my own. (Being alone and without AC#1 or AC#2 and taking time out for myself) I am finally at peace. I have plenty of time for a relationship once I’m ready.
My friends now use this line – being single isn’t bad, but don’t you want to be in a relationship? Yes, I do. But I haven’t found any single, sane (even remotely)person I want to be with.
LOVE this post Kristen. I am right there with ya. I am a single mommy, working full time, spending time with friends and I am happy about not being in the wrong relationship. I’m ok with being single. I truly am. There isn’t anything wrong with it. There is a possibility that people are scared or even jealous of your freedom. Don’t let it bother you.
Totally agree with this “Do these people look at me with pity? I suppose they fear being me (single) or assume we single people are crying on Saturday nights, are bored or are enduring bad dates. I may not be happily married, but I AM happily single. I am happy that I can be happy without a man.”
I will be honest, the only part for me that is hard, about being single, is the pity that people seem to want to bestow on me because I am childless. It is like people in the South can’t fathom being happy without a child. I love kids but I deal with them all day; I can’t imagine having my own, by myself. If there was not a man to step up when it was ready to biologically happen, it was not going to be forced by me.
Sometimes honestly I think that I only regret being alone, when I get compared to others.And usually I would not want their marriages. I personally like being alone now, it feels pretty relaxing and I never worry about not being supported by me; I have my back.
Being single isn’t a terrible thing, but it certainly isn’t all that and a bag of chips when your friends, ex-lovers who you’re still friends with, siblings, and everyone around you gets married and suddenly you’re the “odd (woman) out”.
I used to think I had forever to mess around with EUM, have my flings, take my time, and not be picky. Now at 46 I am single (twice divorced), no children, all my usual friends are married and we rarely get together because most of their time goes into their marriage, their careers, and their kids.
So yeah, being single is awesome when you’re young and free and it’s fairly easy to have a girls night out regularly, etc.
Now, this does NOT mean that a woman should ever have to settle for assclowns, liars, boys in mens clothing, EUMs, and all flavors of asshattery etc. just to avoid being alone. That never… EVER works.
That whole experience can make a woman feel even more lonely and pathetic than being single ever could be.
After too many years wasted in the dating “kiddie pool” I’ve decided that this year I would focus on building new friendships instead of focusing on “dating”. The thought of encountering just one more clone of any of my exes sends chills down my spine.
If I can cultivate a new circle of friends, or at least a group of folks I can get out and socialize with, dating will be less of a priority.
I’m always going to feel some regret that I cast aside some really nice guys because I was an idiot and wanted my “freedom”, or worse – I wanted that EUM with the rock star mentality (who was just “not that into me”).
So you live and learn, but when that final exam time comes around and you still haven’t figured out what the course is all about… well… it’s a bitter pill to swallow.
I like your comment about focusing on friendship. I’m almost 50 with kids still at home. In the past year I’ve taken up two new hobbies cultivating a lot of new friendships. Finding a balance with work and kids is challenging, but I make an effort to cultivate friendships outside work/kids for my mental health.
I first started reading this forum in 2010 after yet another breakup. Now days, I read more than I post. But this topic struck a nerve this morning as I am not in the best of moods. For the record, I am still single and not dating. I cant believe that I am still discussing my singleness…yuck!!
Yes I agree with the previous posters, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being single but lets be real, it is not easy in this society. This society is couple/family oriented..especially for women. Through experience, I can truly say that, it is far better to be single than in a toxic relationship. But it really does get to be a bit tiring of having to do everything by yourself in a couple/family oriented society…that is the simple truth of the matter. Not to mention always showing up to family events by yourself, or always going on vacation alone.
To be fair, I really have not put myself out there. The thing is, I do not internet date, nor do I socialize a lot because it becomes difficult to find single female friends my age that is still willing and able to go out and live life. A lot of women in my circle, have completely let themselves go (physically out of shape) no money, kid restraints, etc. no ambition at this point to do anything (im too old, let me stay my old butt home). Btw, I am 46…. That leaves me to muster of the strength to keep pushing through alone or just sit home. So I do not socialize as much as I would like because I get tired of going to events alone.
This is a continuous circle of nothing.
I am often asked with amazement …
Why are you still single?? I feel that question is so inconsiderate. People do not realize that it is a constant mental struggle to stay positive and strong. For me, it is not a matter of a few years of singleness, but most of my adult life, I have spent outside of a REAL relationship.
The question of “why are you still single”?, brings up all of my shit. Feelings of not being good enough!!! If I am not careful, I will find myself asking, “yeah, why am I not married?” The question does not bother me as much as it used to, probably because I am more accepting of myself than I used to be…yet it is still an annoying question.
I understand and accept that my poor relation choices brought me here. Due to my deep feelings of inadequacy and fear of abandonment. These feeling has its roots in my EU mother and the fact that I did not have my father in my life. I am really trying to get RIGHT with my history.
But, I have to ask myself, why do I have to have it all together, no issues before I can have a meaningful relationship? I am only human and I dont want to kid myself into thinking that being single is the best thing in the world, and I dont want or need a man. I often ask myself, Does all of these people with healthy relationships “have it all together with themselves and are not dealing with any self issues”? It really is not a comparison question but I am just trying to understand fully how did i get here???
At what point is enough a enough, before I have this mystical esteem level that is sufficient enough to attract a decent man. I cant remember the last time that I have attracted a desirable available man. I am only human, I really want to experience true love within the boundaries of a healthy relationship. Yes, I am still learning to love me..but a loving companion would really be nice…im just saying
I read somewhere that you “attract what you are”. I would hate to think that on some level I am EU because I really do not want to be. The thought that I am the reason that I can not a attract a decent relationship is painful.
Yes being single has it advantages as all of you have identified but for me it surely is not easy at this age.
aboutme:
You’re entirely right in that society is a pig for this – beyond a certain age and all of a sudden the couples look out for each other and their children and the single people should either get themselves online, take what they’re offered and be grateful or else bog off and lock themselves away so that they aren’t a burden on the NORMAL people (I’m noticing this more on this side of thirty!)
Atm, my solution is to try and just enjoy any interaction for what it is. Loneliness is really an appalling and painful thing to have to deal with, but I think that it’s made worse by the constant pressure to ‘meet a man’ as a handy catch-all that solves the problem. It’s true that we all need love, but to say that this can only REALLY exist and be REALLY satisfying if it’s a sexual/romantic partnership (which everybody seems to, all the time) is imo a swizz.
I spent a lot of last year seething at friends who would tell me that I’d meet a man but were somehow never available to accompany to places where I might actually be able to. My NY resolution (admittedly not very far along, so I can’t vouch for its success!) is just to be more proactive about seeking and appreciating the company of nice people. So far I’m doing things like organising all-girl cinema trips and cooking lunch for people – it isn’t particularly glamourous or exciting but it’s keeping me ticking along, I’m enjoying it and, after the self-enforced loneliness of the last few years, it’s really satisfying spending time in conversation and sharing experiences with people – even if it is just bruschetta at my house and a ride on a tram.
Once my confidence tanks are a bit fuller I’m going to try something new and scary – probably a sport like biking/kayaking – but I’m finding that things are easier and I feel less lonely and out-of-it now I’ve taken the pressure off myself to meet a man and am focused on enjoying what I have.
Society doesn’t – and won’t ever – support me in this, but in my considered opinion society is a patriarchal arse who wants me to feel bad about myself so that I spend my money on useless stuff and have sex with men who don’t deserve it. I try not to pay attention anymore.
Not entirely sure where I’m driving with this! Although I do like Bridget Jones’ response to people who ask why she’s single – “Actually, it’s because underneath my clothes my entire body is covered with scales”.
About,
I’m 49 and socialize on a regular basis.
My friends range from 30-65, both men and women. I met a lot of people through volunteering and groups that are of common interest. Trust me, when I say, there many people out there that are in the same boat, but you have to put yourself out there- don’t box yourself into friends within the same age group and sex.
Get out have have fun!
I agree Allison, I have quite a bit of friends who are around my age,45, divorced no kids and also with kids or never married. I love people and talk to everyone I meet if I find we have something in common, I’ll ask them if they want to do something.
The same in here-I often SEE people who have some serious self-issues, and yet they are in relationships and their issues don;t prevent them from building their homes, raising children and etc etc. Then I can’t help but think in this “what is wrong with me” mode. As if having a normal relationship is only possible when you are perfect.
believe me, a fair amount of people who are in these seemingly ‘normal’ relationships’ raising children etc. aren’t necessarily happy. i have several friends like that. it looks great on the outside but i know what’s going on inside — or at least a little and often that’s more than enough. that pretty picture is definitely NOT going to fool me.
hell, i bet when i was married and living in the most beautiful house people thought i was the lucky one, not realising my husband was a raging alcoholic and yes he managed to hold down a very good job.
it isn’t all what it seems.
i know i feel lonely sometimes and wish i had someone to snuggle up to, but when i technically did have that someone, he was so cold and detached and not into it, falling asleep facing away from me always… so much more painful than peacefully falling asleep with my cat on my bed, which is actually really lovely.
I know lots of people who are married and happy or dating couples and happy. They’re not perfect by no means but they are not acting like or putting up with the BS we have all been taken in by. There are people out there who treat others with respect, including members of their own family. I know I do so I know others do as we’ll. I’m not saying there aren’t bad marriages, I know some of them too, but not everyone is falling apart. I don’t use the fact that other people are unhappy to make myself feel good about being single. I feel good about it, because I actually feel good.
Amy I can relate. I’m 43, never married, but thankfully I never wanted children. I never thought I’d still be alone at this age.Yep, I’ve spent way too much time dating in the kiddie pool.
In my 20’s when I should have been looking for a life partner, instead I was focused on paying my way through college, and just simple survival. I had a horribly abusive childhood, and it really took its toll on me. I still haven’t fully recovered.
In my 30’s I focused on my career, and getting financially stable.
And now I’m in my 40’s. Alone.
jeanne, same here, with the exception that i was married in my 30s while i should have been focusing on my career!
in my 40s and divorced now, with no financial stability, but i’m doing the best i can.
after i got divorced 5 years ago, i really did think i’d meet someone else. from then til now i was involved with 3 men. all assclowns.
no more. the energy i put into these men i am now going to put into me. and then we’ll see what happens. i would love to find a good partner. i’m not going to lie about it, it is still one of my goals in life to have a partner to travel with especially, but i’m not going to compromise my sanity and mental health any more. i’m pretzeled out.
being single is a million times better than some dysfunctional relationship with someone undeserving. been there, done that, never again.
Oh, I have to add to my other post that I finally feel happy as single from reading this site inside and out. I used to feel sad when I would come home alone from a night out or when holidays would go by or I broke up with another assclown… and I would feel silly “not enough” things like a guy wouldn’t like me if he saw me without make up. I put up with assclowns and then wondered why I wasn’t even enough for an assclown.
One friend recently told me that I am happy being single because I don’t like to let people get close and some people just WANT to be single because of that. I thought that was rather presumptuous of her, but perhaps there is SOME truth to it. I chose assclowns for a reason. HOWEVER, it was the old me who was single (but not happy) because I didn’t like to let people get close and had “not being enough” issues and fears. I made bad decisions with men to pretty much guarantee I would end up single again eventually.
The new me (the post- reading this site over and over and figuring out my faulty beliefs and patterns) is actually happy being single because I have found a new happiness in me. I am not thinking about men with a sense of lacking one or needing one, I can go out and have fun without having to be with or meet a guy, and I am more confident that I am something special and if a guy can’t see it and cherish it, then he won’t get to be with me. It’s been a long process, and I check back in with this site all the time. I think sometimes being single is THE way to learn that you are enough. Some people grow up knowing it, others have to learn it.
Kristen
I found that when I was happy single, I met someone. It wasn’t all hallelujah chorus, it did give me deep anxiety, which I managed with BR. I’ve only just recently stopped (after six months with him and still going strong) looking mournfully at my lovely home for one and wondering if I could give it up. (I decided I can).
Being single was terrific and I was committed to being single for the rest of my life. But there are things about being in a relationship which I could not have learned from being single. I am sure there are equally valid things to learn if I had continued being single.I don’t think either is a better state than the other.
However, I do believe most of us here will meet someone, unless we really don’t want to.
I do hear you that being single satisfied my independent streak. It’s been a struggle giving that up. The rewards have been worth it though.
When I came to BR, I immediately understood what EU was, and hot and cold, and crumbs. It took a while longer to “get” boundaries and self-esteem. I’m at stage three, which I took on trust as Nat hadn’t let me down before. To really put your true self in front of another human being is such a brave, vulnerable, risky thing to do. Why does anyone do it?
It is easier in a way to have half-hearted relationships, or even half-hearted marriages. But that’s not worth it to me, I might as well be single. There is nothing lonelier than being in a relationship where the two people aren’t intimate (and I don’t just mean physically).
Not everyone needs to be single for years like I was but it really helps me in my relationship to know that if it hits the fan, I would survive and more. Ironically, it’s that which enables me to commit to the relationship. Don’t let anyone kid you that you will meet “the one” and everything will be perfect, you won’t struggle, there will be no doubts or conflict. That’s just another fantasy. A real relationship IS work, but you do get more for it than crumbs. A lot of that work is on yourself, it’s not about persuading someone to be better or to give you more crumbs.
And pick well, nothing we do can make a grown adult man a better person. That is not where we should be directing our efforts.
“There is nothing lonelier than being in a relationship where the two people aren’t intimate (and I don’t just mean physically).”
Grace: This was my 14 year marriage. BE emotionally and physically distant as possible was the slogan. 🙁 My ex-husband is a wonderful man. Kind, moral, ethical, great looking and fantastic job BUT he showed me zero emotions. Physically there was nothing. A hug was difficult for him. We had not had sex in 10 years!?!?
The first few years were sooo great and then he closed up on me. I really wonder what happened that made it chance so much.
Literally 180 degrees…I wondered if it was me. I wonder if he was in love with someone else. I tried to change. I lost and gained over 100lbs in those 10 years, became a better home-maker, better mother, better wife and still nothing….It drained my confidence and self-esteem. I tried so hard to get him to see me, want me. I loved for the both of us. It was a great “partnership”. Financially secure, someone there for me…but if you wanted any emotion, caring etc. It was nowhere to be found. He slept with his face away from me. I’d have to hug his back. I’m tearing up as I type this because it was soooo difficult. It hurt too much to be with him. I still love him still but I’m not in love with him.
Being single is hard. Very hard. Part of me wants to go back and beg him for us to try again but the rational side knows it’s futile. There’s EU there. On a massive scale…
I now realize why I jumped into the arms of the ex- AC so openly and easily…I needed someone, anyone to feel again. The mistake I made…Correction, not mistake, lesson I learnt from the whole debacle with the ex-AC was EU attract EU. I was very EU and still and but then I did not know what EU was. 🙂
The thing I love about this blog and Nat is that there is no sugar coating and things are given as they are. Nat has helped me soooo much.
The other person who helped me over the last year is Grace. My calming voice when the storm rages in my head. My zen guru……Thank you, Grace. Hugs to you!
I plan on being single for a long time…Sigh! But I need to go through the development phases that Grace speaks off and if I meet someone when I’m ready, great. 🙂 If not, so be it. EU = never ever again…..Cheers everyone. Here’s to singlehood…..
Confused
I wasn,t you. I was that person who could be the perfect loyal partner or friend for months, even years. And then I would just bolt, leaving them wondering wtf just happened. Even now, I,d be hard pushed to explain myself.
The best I can say is that I was playing a role. I wasn’t being deceitful, I had such a poor sense of self I barely knew who I was. My counsellor said than when he first met me i was like a puff of smoke that the wind could blow away.
So, after x months of playing the role I just got … sick of it. It wasn,t the other person,s fault, they never asked me to play the role. Also, I just didn,t like people up close to me (emotionally) even if I,d known them a while. I still fight that but at least I recognise I have that in me.
I recommend Getting to Commitment by Steven carter. He was an EUM who worked through his issues to a truly loving relationship. it,s not supposed to be all flowers and unicorns, which I find reassuring as my relationship tips the six month mark into “serious” and “long term”. I find it daunting, it,s not like winning the jackpot. you keep working and putting in the effort with no guarantees. But it,s good.
Amen kristen.
“The new me is actually happy being single because I have found a new happiness in me”.
I took a long time to feel happy about being single but the biggest change came when I realised that I was an UNhappy single not because I was suffering in any way for it (and, as an aside, lucky us to live in a time and place when we CAN be single and financially and socially independent) but because of that monster inside my head that came out periodically and roared “SINGLE??!! Nyah nyah nyah, freak! WHAT’S WRONG WITH YOU?”
I tend to think that society in general isn’t a lot of help in getting rid of the desperation monster, on the grounds that it pets it, agrees with it often and feeds it tidbits in the form of magazine articles about 1000 Ways To Be The Woman He Wants.
But, really, what IS wrong with me? Nowt, that’s what. I’m a fully-functioning independent adult of reasonable attractiveness and intelligence, I made some mistakes when I was younger but then not everybody is born knowing how to live life, and right now I don’t have the inclination to look or accept less than I’d want.
I take great pleasure these days in poking that monster in the eye whenever he sneaks out of his cave. I used to think that single meant ‘sad and desperate’. But the ‘sad and desperate’ is what keeps you hopping from bad relationship to bad relationship, and not standing on your own feet.
Well I’ve never feared being single, actually, thats my natural state (counting the time I’ve spent in relationships it would only be 2,5 years through my whole life and I’m 29 already), still I must say I’m getting tired of being perpetually single:(
Kristen,
What you said! I’m not single, but sometimes I wish I were, I am in one of those snares, separated from one AC and best friends with an ex in a weird friendship with feelings. Yes, I’d rather be single, but I’m not strong enough to let go of my now-best friend. I still have strong feelings for him.
But, I know where you’re coming from… It’s what I tell my whiny single friends and my engaged friends who put up with all kinds of BS to make it until the wedding. Then what??!!! I did that, I didn’t have BR then though or anyone to tell me the BS I was gladly diving in head first. I had zero experience with relationships and I kinda blame myself for rushing into marrying this emotionally abusive EUM. I’m happy for you and I look forward to being single again after divorce if things don’t work out with the current “friend”. I, too, am changing career, studying postgrad and moving out of my home country. I want to have a fresh start. I have two kids and they also dream of a change.
Hi Kristen
I agree. Been single for a while now and though like you I would embraced a relationship I know that I am enough. Being enough has resulted in my not accepting crumbs. I now step back an evaluated situations, conversations and behaviours of anyone that I may be interested in.
I too used to be frustrated and annoyed at the way my married, coupled and some single friends would carry on like the world would come to an end if they did not have a man. I no longer feel that way as I realise that their need is not my need.
A long time ago I promised myself that I would only fill myself up with good and worthy things. If a man happens to be part of that then good. If not then good.
Thank you Kristen! I too am single and have been since I broke up with an EUM/AC in Dec 2011. I have dated on/off and they have been AC’S/EUM’s also. I’m recognizing this now. I won’t settle for hot/cold/crumbs/fastforwarding. Most of my friends are married or have to be with a man. I took time in 2011 to focus on myself. I still have goals to finish in 2013. I am so much better off alone. No relationship DRAMA! I have even gotten to the point where I don’t want to hear anyone else’s either. If you keep going back to an AC, I don’t want to hear it. People look at me like I have 3 heads because I’m single. I just have not found anybody worth dating more than once.
“I have to wonder– why do people seem to think it is so bad to be single?”
For me, a large part of the issue is very strong sexual frustration. I don’t believe in kissing outside of relationships, and now that I’m not seeing anyone and there is no one on the horizon, I am very much aware of that frustration.
snowboard
If it’s any consolation it gets better – ime sex is one of those things that the more you have, the more you want. I always saw myself as someone who had a strong sex drive and placed a very high value on sex and if you’d told me two and a half years ago that I’d be celibate until now I’d probably have leapt, weeping, from a high window.
Actually, I don’t think about it much now – I still have the occasional crazy where I throw my head back and howl “but I want to get LAID!” but not very often and only when I’m hormonal anyway.
What I’ve come to realise is that (as with so many fun and interesting things) sex is a good servant but a bad master. As your master, it hypnotises you into thinking that anyone who is willing to bestow it on you is an amazing specimen worthy of eternal love. I used to have sex with someone and think that they were great. Nowadays I only want to have sex with someone BECAUSE I think they’re great. It’ll be worth riding out (ha!) the frustration for that.
meant to add…
…that, ironically, what I saw as placing a ‘high’ value on sex was actually a pretty darn low value on sex, on the grounds that I was prepared to have it with anyone vaguely attractive with a pulse…
hahaha thanks Yoghurt 🙂 hopefully I’ll get there.
Thanks for this Yoghurt. Totally agree and put it in really good perspective for me 🙂
Cheers Victorious 🙂
I have to say that I’ve gone a bit Emperor’s New Clothes on sex – to see the way that society treats it (I’ve got a real down on ‘society’ tonight, whatever it is!), you’d think that the ONLY precursor to happiness was a ‘healthy sex life’.
What the heck is a ‘healthy sex life’ anyway? The period of time when I was having the most sex was, coincidentally enough, the most confused, unhappy and downright dangerous time of my entire life.
I no longer have men ringing me up and threatening to drunk-drive home at 4am if I don’t sleep with them – woot! If this is unhealthy repression then buy me a chastity belt and change my name to Mary Whitehouse.
Great post and I’m so glad I’ve found your site. It has helped me so much since I have been in a string of relationships with crumb-givers who only contact me when they want sex and sometimes maybe even the semblance of a date. I will keep reading this and I’m going to work on being complete in myself so I stop attracting and staying with the crumb-givers. I have some hard questions to ask myself – “why does the NOT NORMAL feel good an normal?” “Why would I humiliate myself, put my life, career, reputation on hold to get crumbs and occasional hookups?” “why would I keep on seeking love and what I want from these type of men?” Answering these questions and moving on from unhealthy attachments are the secret to my happiness. Thanks for your amazing blog and giving voice to my pain.
Megan, I love your comment and it is exactly how I feel, I humiliated myself for so long and I accepted all crap from EX ACs, but never give a chance to nice, kind and carrying guys who sincerely wanted to be with me…I have to ask questions myself which you and Natalie mentioned here: “why crumbs are enough for you in the first place. Why is this an uncomfortable comfortable for you? Why does this feel like ‘home’?” Unfortunately, I know the answer – BECAUSE I AM EMOTIONALLY UNAVAILABLE MYSELF and SCARED OF COMMITMENT and I have a long way to fix it…
@LittleStar – your answer is also part of mine – that I am emotionally unavailable myself and am scared of commitment. I also have taken a long look into my past starting with the relationship with my emotionally unavailable Father (a good man, provider, but distant) I was always trying to please but never did, and my earliest crushes and boyfriends who were guys who I chased and longed for from afar but never got. Then I had a physical transformation and became “hot” and used sex and my body to get men in hookups who I then tried to transform into my boyfriends. I bought into hot sex = a good relationship potential. Then married for many years to a man who adored me and was giving, etc. but I was emotionally unavailable to him and of course I left him for a married lover. You can imagine how that ended. The saga of my chasing Mr. Unavailable ends now – I’m getting some help about becoming myself, loving myself and how to become healthy myself. No more crumb-givers. This pattern is destroying my life and I’m ready to give it up for something new, healthy that feels uncomfortable now, but I’m sticking to it thanks to this blog, Natalie’s books, and awesome people in this blog community like you who post & offer insight.
I’ve been reading this for a while, and this one really hit home! What a humiliating experience, on the phone, hardly able to believe that he didn’t want me after all that future-faking! Especially when I offered him so much in exchange for so little! It has been six months since no contact, and believe me, it was the best thing I ever did. I really do know now that life with him would have been constant striving and never quite meeting the mark. Starting with my weight, my housekeeping, my financial restraint, my level of environmentalism, my parenting skills, my work performance, and of course my bj skills. However, I can’t really take credit for coming to my senses. The NC was motivated at least a little by fear that he would take out a restraining order. I lost it like I can’t believe.
Oh Lois! Talk about losing it. In college I waited crying, in the fetal position at my ex’s door step for him to get home from the bar. I called him 30ish or more times leaving hysterical voice messages. I can’t tell you how many times I did shit like that. We must forgive ourselves.
Here’s the scary thing: this man whom I was so desperately pursuing, he was a violent alcoholic and drug addict who had been violent toward me; he had choked me and left me bruised at one time, coincidentally my father had done the same thing to me growing up. This man whom I tried so desperately to get to not leave me would call me a crazy bitch, raise his fist at me and threaten to punch me when we argued. Yet I thought I’d die without him. Truth is, it wouldn’t have been unlikely for me to have died with him.
Hang in there Lois, keep reading BR. Natalie is brilliant and she knows her stuff. We all can get better if we want to and are willing to do the work. You are worth it.
Thanks for the reply! Natalie really saved me. It was hell–I was so desperate, and yet aware and utterly humiliated by what I was doing. At one point I was cooking him dinner and giving him oral sex (is that phrase allowed on this blog? and sometimes in very strange public places) and he was insisting we were only innocent friends and he was being true to someone else (his actual love) because he was refusing to kiss me or touch me. Yes, indeed, I had lost my mind. I just could not believe that he was in love with someone else… He had just moved across the country to be with me! Or that was the idea. He announced that he had accidentally fallen in love with someone else (innocently) two weeks before the move, but that he still loved me. The crazy thing is, we had been in a long distance relationship for two years, and now he is in a new long distance relationship. Last month I got a confirmation from the Washington DC hotel where we had a tryst a year ago at an annual conference that he had reserved a fancy lovers suite for the same conference. The hotel owner just assumed it was with me. AH! Part of me wants to warn her… but I am DEAD SERIOUS about no contact. Really thank god for Natalie’s strict advice.
Another thing is, I really pulled strongs and did some unethical things to get him a good job in my town… and there is considerable evidence that he got involved with me in the first place because of my ability to help him get employment. I really look back on a lot of things with some real shame. Am definitely a better person…I know I would never do many of those things again.
Oh Natalie; your insight has saved me time and again over the last 2 years of leaving the crumb relationshit that I was in… I gave up everything for him (including my self esteem and boundaries) and yet he still was a pri*ck who treated me like sh*t. From being on the edge and wanting to top myself a year and a half ago, I have now moved through the storm to come to a superb place of happiness and am totally in love… with MYSELF. I KNOW now that I am so much better than he deserves, and I am HAPPY with myself and my life. I have just met someone new and am taking it slow. Have made my expectations clear and not doing any chasing. He is happy to spoil me and doesn’t expect anything in return… I never knew it could be like this! Ladies, read this blog religiously and kick those suckers to the kerb. YOU ARE ENOUGH, and you deserve SO much better… but you won’t realise this until you start LOVING YOURSELF. Hugs to you all xxx
AMEN Kristen. Nice post 😉
Nat, this is a really great post. I could really relate to this, unfortunately. I also really liked your recent one about the Regret Hangover. Going into 2013, I am very aware about the changes I want to make, and am not in contact with the bloke, and haven’t been since December. But it ended so catastrophically, with me literally losing my marbles and acting in a frenzied crazy manner, that I have had a very long painful regret hangover. I thought I would never have anything to do with him in August, but then in late October he contacted me again when I had just started seeing someone new. Things with this new guy was going really well, but that crap bloke reeled me in with making fake promises, and slowly I realised I was getting crumbs again and not the loaf. I had of course ended things immediately with new guy and told him I still had feelings for the ex. Fast forward to December, after a few months of crumb taking, I discovered he was cheating on me – but with a young girl who worked with him. He was also Future Faking with his Ex who he was still trying to win over. Now, she knows and has got rid, I found out and also got rid, and he is now with the girl from his work. Very messy… but I have moved back to my home town, I have a new job, a new phone number, and am currently saving to go travelling around South America. I still have trouble sleeping. Thinking about what happened, why I let it happen (a 2nd time), why I sacrificed a good relationship which was fresh and had potential. And like your post, I still ask myself: why, from the moment I met him last year, was I never enough?
I know time and distance will make this easier. The 2nd time round I made a mental note of the red flags – but I chose to ignore them. This has been a lesson to me.
”If you don’t feel ‘good enough’ and wonder why you’re not enough, you are the person in your life that you cannot please and when you please you, believe me, you’ll know that you’ve done more than enough and see the shortfall from others and tell them to jog on not go chasing after them!”
I honestly felt like a hole inside me filled up when i read that…I honestly print your posts out and read them every day..It’s so i make sure i never sell myself short again, for a pretty face, kind word, great body, future fake, intellect or what ever other BS thing that hooks me in that isn’t to do with shared values…Thank you again Natalie for another amazing post.
Bravo Kristin! I’m right where you are. Very well said! Awesome post as usual Natalie!
Just what I needed to read today. Thank you. I feel a big shift happen, I relax and I’m happy when I can allow myself to be enough for myself just as I am!
Spot On Natalie! I have an EUM who keeps showing up from time to time via texts and emails. I know what and why he does this and most times I ignore but he persists until I answer.It does bring back the wondering of why I wasn’t good enough for him and I always answer in a trying-to-convince-him tone and then hate myself afterwards. It happened again this past week and I’m, kicking myself in the ass. HOWEVER, I did say that I would not go out with him again and while it hurts, I truly meant it. This post came just in time and I will reread it until it sinks in so completely that I never feel compelled to answer him ever.
Thank you for all that you do. I always feel like I’m talking to a really great friend when I read your posts, only my friends are not as insightful as you are!
Mary,
The up side of all your turmoil may be the realization that you have a good man who loves you. Maybe you got caught up in the fantasy, maybe you were bored–I don’t know. I hope you find the strength to cut the AC affair guy off totally–gotta do the No Contact and really do it!! He’s taken up enough of your life. I hope if there’s a way you can salvage all the years with your husband (who sounds like an amazing human being)you find the courage to do it. Kristen, Im single too, and have learned to be comfortable in my own skin, and would sooner fly solo than eat crumbs from an assclown’s table. Finally, Megan–I’ve done all those same things out of lonliness,so don’t beat yourself up. Right now, working on ME and feels great to put myself first for once! BR has helped me more than anything, improved my self esteem and started me on a path I doubt I’d ever have embarked upon without reading all of your accounts–you are NOT alone. Thank you all for your input and wish you all strength and love.
Great post once again Natalie! You better preach preacha, as my grandma would say!!! I just broke up with my married man for the umpteenth time but know that this time I am stronger and doing no contact. This article describes me to the tee! I finally had enough of the crumbs and have met a nice single, and seemingly emotionally available guy!!! After I got that garbage out of my life. We are taking it slow but this healthy interaction just screams to me about what bullshit I took off of the married man! I compromised my morals and values for an assclown! But no more!!!! Thank you, I am forgiving myself, loving myself, and moving on!!!! Much love Natalie, you have helped me change my life!!!!!!!!!
Another remarkably insightful post, Natalie. This is exactly where I’m at… where I’ve been at… the torturting myself with “why am I not enough?” and continuing to reach towards that “ever moving goalpost.”
After florencing the AC last week, literally, when he was sick, I ended up ill myself and last night, spoke with him and went on a tirade. I mentioned his perfect “girl who got away”, the one who kicked his a$$ to the curb after he thought she was so perfect, gorgeous, right age, blonde, shared Christian values, etc etc and she discovered he went online once after asking her to be exclusive… all this after a three or four week, primarily online relationship??? I was furious that after knowing me for almost TWO YEARS he still has me on the proverbial crumb diet. No little gifts, cards, signs of affection.. as long as I’m there for him, it’s status quo. Exactly as you put it in your post- THEY aren’t malnourished. Then, after telling him off, I FELT SORRY. I caused him pain. ( Tomorrow is a work day for me. We’ve been on the phone for 20 minutes…. 30 minutes… I won’t be able to sleep tonight…. I’m not answering any more of your questions”) and it went on, and on. I knew when I made the call- yes, I admit I called him- it was a MISTAKE. I need the will to go NC with him, permanently. He absolutely knows I want more- but when I stop to think , as I’ve done more and more of lately, objectively about what exactly is on offer- do I really want it? Or do I just want to stay in my uncomfortable comfort zone? Or is it like you said, Nat, “I’ve customized myself”. NC is the only way, truly. I will get there. I know I am enough, I just need to interalize it and believe it. This site is a lifeline.
“He absolutely knows I want more- but when I stop to think , as I’ve done more and more of lately, objectively about what exactly is on offer- do I really want it?”
of course you want MORE, but pandora… he’s never gonna give you that because he’s 50 shades of assclown.
please, please, please, go NC so you can detox from this vile man. this is not a good man and he’ll never be able to give you what you want. that horse is dead and you can keep flogging it all you want, it’s not going to turn into a healthy, grown up man.
Pandora honey, you will get there and you will fine peace eventually:( I was the same, I remember my EX AC used to say about his ex girlfriend, how wonderful he was to her: took her to holidays, and she was living with him rent free (she was studying English in UK)etc and she ended up CHEATING!!! What he done to me?! NOTHING, only empty promises during 5 YEARS…WHY WHY WHY I was putting up with all this crap?! We have to stick to NC, you are right, it is only option!!!
Wow! “you had no business giving them the time of day yet alone the steam off your pee!” Natalie this is truely your calling – you are always on time without fail.
Kristen, my sister – well said and stay strong. I have friends also that don’t have the guts to get to know themselves and figure out things or just get “centered”, they are “crumbing” themselves! We should be proud of ourselves that we are willing to heal and regroup. Be blessed my baggage reclaim family – you keep me strong!
Natalie, I don’t know what I would do without your words of wisdom… And this post is exactly I needed to hear tonight. I feel like each guy I get involved with has even less and less crumbs to offer me. It’s pathetic. Yet, I somehow keep accepting them!
My latest is the guy who won’t call, won’t text, won’t ask me out on a date, is rude, is arrogant, and even has a string of other women he lends his bed to. But because I see him often due to our many mutual friends, I can’t completely No Contact him and I find myself spending the night with him weekend after weekend. Somehow he convinces me that the measly crumbs he has to offer will benefit me. I am completely aware that he is an utter waste of time. Yet I keep doing this to myself… As if I should be thankful for the small bits of attention he throws my way when it starts getting late and the bar is closing… I don’t get why I’ve let him get into my head. I know he’s pure assclown, why can’t I just let him go? I think I’m more mad at myself more than anything. So frustrating. I think it’s time for more therapy :-/
Oh my gosh. Everything in this post is me. And I had to laugh out loud at the “taking my single self off the market” paragraph, that is exactly my situation.
@ Kristen: AMEN!!! you took the words right out of my mouth. Happily single almost 3 years now. Same situation, group of gf’s who go above and beyond to NOT be single! They put up with so much douche baggery and trash and actually justify it. Then when it doesn’t pan out, they fall back on their ex’s who it was never working with anyway, and that falls apart..and they go back to finding douche bags! It’s like really, you’re THAT desperate to not be single? Because I’ll pick my single situation over your selection of DOUCHE BAGS any day of the week! Honestly, I’ve realized people do not want to be alone, PERIOD. everyone takes the path of least resisitance rather then take a more challenging path but at the end of the day, a more rewarding path. Because you figure your shit out, you figure YOU out, you learn not to be afraid if be alone…with YOU…in YOUR company! And once you overcome that fear and insecurity, actually put some work into you, better yourself and at the end of that road find happiness…it’s such a HUGE cherry on top bc if you can be really, sincerely happy alone then you’ll never depend in an extrenal source for your happiness ever again. And there is NO better reward in life! I’ve also heard all the rude single comments…it’s honestly all fear and a reflection of those individuals and their insecurities. So good for you Kristen. What a refreshing comment from an obviously strong, independent women! 🙂 be proud.
Oh Nat! The people pleasing and the EU father. That and there was the best therapy EVER! I have taken stock of my 3 relationships. They all were assclowns and EU. But now I am armed with the knowledge that the father I could never please, the crumbs he gave me, (not to mention the abuse)add up to what feels comfortable to me. That’s not “chemistry”! That’s the primrose path filled with red flags. It’s sad that it all began with the man that should have nurtured and loved me, so I went looking for love in the crummiest places! Tonight is 9 weeks NC. I am doing so well. It was hard at first, but guess what? How do you miss someone who offers you nothing? I’ve got my own place, I own. 2 beautiful girls, a good enough job for now and no chaos from a EU assclown who never accomplished anything EVER. That’s the weiredest thing. These guys never do anything, I read about all these amazing people who bust their ass in business, or home, whatever they do, they excel. But not the assclowns, they are parasites. The only thing they accomplish is destruction, and it is rarely their own. They set off down that primrose path, looking for another victim. Thank God, I won’t be one. I know too much now.
Reading this post reminded me that there are several friends whose dating advice I completely need to jettison in the future. I can remember going to the pair of them after a particularly bumpy patch with one EUM, and having them both nod sympathetically and urge me to give him a chance.
The guy was a major crumb-thrower! Neither one of them has the kind of marriage I would envy, with workaholic husbands who are never home.
My last BF did a lot of the crumb-chucking nonsense through time, and honestly, I have never before really thought about how the person I couldn’t ever please was myself. In both cases, I thought this guy and the last were “dating down” for me, and I felt I had the upper hand. Yet, bang-zoom, they flipped and suddenly, I was hanging on for dear life! I never saw it coming both times.
I guess this dynamic has been in place for me for about 10 years or so. I can see it so clearly now, but never really got it before. I’m so surrounded by codependent people, and I never got that, either. Now I understand that I should completely listen to my instincts, which were screaming at me all the while, and ignore the Greek chorus of women who say I should hang on and “be understanding!” Instead, I should remember that if warning bells are going off early in a relationship, I take two big steps back and really pay attention.
You know what’s kinda odd? I’m noticing now that I feel a lot better about me, and am pampering the daylights out of myself, suddenly, men are very interested in me, just people I bump into in stores or on the street. This has never been the case with me. Actually, I should adjust that to “people” rather than men, because I am having lovely conversations with people in shops, just people I bump into. I really feel so much better now. Putting the focus on self-care has done wonders for the way I feel. I joined weight watchers, am going to the gym, getting out with friends, entertaining and having fun without the drama. I’m still not ready to start dating yet, but my life has balanced out very nicely in a short time. I’m really grateful that I got here for a good kick in the pants when I needed it.
Thanks, Natalie, for another excellent post!
This post really made sense.
I’ve been reading your blog since July, after I was dumped out of the blue. I’ve been reading and hoping that something would make me stop feeling sad, hurt, and unloved. The questions and doubts have been circling my head for months. This post made me look back and see that, you know, maybe he was giving me crumbs of a relationship. I would bend over backwards, but it still was not enough.
I’m saddened to think back upon the relationship and put together pieces that I now see. I’m sad for the loss of the relationship, and sad that now I understand that I was really living on these crumbs in the hopes that things would get better.
Thank you.
I remember a while back a discussion as to the difference between a FBG and a Mr. U. Since, in my situation, I was as unavailable as he was, I’ve always struggled to make the distinction. This comment finally put it in a way I can now internalize: “Trust me, they’re not ‘suffering’ like you because they’re not suffering from malnutrition like you! They’ve reaped the benefits!” Wahoo, I think I may finally get it. I feel like the greatest magician in the world or the biggest idiot. I managed to magic his crumbs into a loaf while he was getting the loaf. Then I wondered why I wasn’t enough and why he didn’t chose me.
I asked myself every question you posed. What the hell was I supposed to do at 50 something after customizing myself to fit his needs? So yeah, I had to return to the shop. Fortunately, I found the BR shop for an extreme emotional make-over. Thank you forever Natalie. You bettcha I’m enough. Underlying irony was that I was too much for him!
“This comment finally put it in a way I can now internalize: “Trust me, they’re not ‘suffering’ like you because they’re not suffering from malnutrition like you! They’ve reaped the benefits!”
I’m finally dealing with the shame of it…
4 years later, ex AC is fine and dandy, living well and enjoying life, while I’ve been struggling like hell. He kept dangling that carrot of…someday..it will all pay off for you! All of that investment, will be returned to you!!
Ugh, I feel like vomiting.
Recently more disturbing memories came to the surface, of how he would flip out on me when I felt most vulnerable. He gaslighted the fuck out of me.
Thank God, thank GOD that’s over.
I flipped back and forth and back and forth, thinking this guy was my friend, but I noticed that my real friends don’t make me insane with a single phone call.
I’m stronger and wiser.
Never ever ever never ever ever EVER again.
Ever. Never never never neverEVER never.
(which is what I changed his name to in my contacts list. for the last time.)
Sunyata, I had those flooding shameful memories too. I’m with you, never ever ever EVER again. If I can do it at 53, anybody can. They don’t even really dangle a carrot…that would be healthy. They dangle a crumb. All starch and sugar…an immediate high followed by an immediate low. Thus, a crumb. Stay healthy girl.
“I managed to magic his crumbs into a loaf while he was getting the loaf.”
Exactly – except he was actually getting *two* loafs! He was stuffed to the bone 🙂
Crumbs, crumbs, crumbs Snowboard and the pun is intended. I still am in denial about the loaf his wife was providing. Thus, good math. He was getting TWO loafs and stuffed to the bone, while providing crumbs.
Your articles are unbelievable. You may as well be following me and spying on the thoughts in my head. It’s a scary place, isn’t it? Thanks for everything you write, it makes me feel less alone.
I have gotten so much out of BR in the several months since my break-up, and am really trying to take the lessons to move forward. What I stumble with is the chicken/egg thing. I see that I lost my own boundaries and self-esteem, especially at the end. And my ex was unable to support/love/help through that – which is part of a relationship and commitment – better and worse. So, I can see where he faltered, but can’t stop wondering why I lost myself and if I hadn’t, would the end result have been the same? To what degree is this caused by both, rather than one? My day by day feelings vary from sadness to feeling betrayed to feeling like I am starting to let go. Maybe I don’t need to understand it to the degree I want to. Does anyone else struggle walking this line?
And Natalie, thank you most sincerely. Your website has provided a great deal of comfort and insight in a really difficult time for me.
I wonder at times if it is THEY who realize they are not enough. Kristen : I will never, eversettle for anyone I am not attracted to, who doesn’t respect who and what I am but I can tell you the last 6 years of unintentional singlehood has sucked. My case may be different as I have no real family, and no real support network. This means no holidays, birthdays, going to movies, being able to have an in depth conversation about stuff that matters to me, no dancing, which I really miss, no going to certain bars, etc. Also zero human touch and affection for years. A hard path. You are treated differently ; relegated to sit with the creepy guys at after work gatherings, not invited to many social things, even stuff like having no one to help you round the house. I may take it harder because my marriage broke up due to circumstance rather than a lack of love, kinda like how a widow would feel. It’s also that I understand that I will end my life completely alone; we outlive men, are healthier and more resilient and I very much feel that time is running out. However, I will never, ever, settle to avoid this. No damn one will ever humiliate me like the AC did again. I have BR and a lot of reading about narcissism to thank. Tis funny that we are initially more than enough then thru some magical process, less than garbage to these folks.
Kristen: omg I thought exactly the same thing! I used to be so afraid of being single. My family is unexpectedly very traditional when it comes to marriage. You get to a certain age, it is time to get married and have kids, bc failing that, it will be harder to have one later. I ended up dating without any boundaries!! Now, I don’t just want anyone to be the father of my children. I have seen firsthand the results of various unhealthy relationship or family dynamics and I do not want it. I would rather stay single and enjoy my life if a relationship or kids just happen to end up not being in the cards for me. After all, you don’t always need a relationship, kids, or even to be related, to be a part of a family or a community.
My father never wanted me. He never wanted a child. He and my mother had me in their twenties. He left shortly after I was born and never properly took care of me. I was passed from abusive household to abusive household. The times I did live with him he was abusive, neglectful and drunk. I have recently cut contact with him because he is an addict who refuses to get sober. I had to. He blames me. Just as my ex does. These men think they are blameless. They are scum. Their lives are nothing more than one attention fix after another. They leave no real or lasting good in the women’s lives they wreak havoc on. They use them to get their ego built up so that they can go out and get more ego strokes. It’s sick really. My father abandoned me and left me with my mentally ill mother. He blames leaving on my mother. He said he knew something was wrong with her, yet he left me with her. I near died many times under her care until she left me with my grandparents. My father put the life of his newborn child at risk so that he could chase women, drugs and alcohol. He is in his fifties now. He is immature, abusive, strange, and disgustingly unhygienic. He has no one.
I’m scared I’ve angered him by cutting contact. He is a highly violent man. I live in terror. God, I guess I felt this way growing up my whole life. But I can call the police if he threatens me or hits me. I don’t trust him, nor do I trust myself to properly take protective measures against him.
Thank you Natalie. Your wisdom always helps me.
I actually got a text from AC the other day who was dishing only nasty moldy crumbs to me all summer. Like someone else on here said, I also lost my marbles. Big time. He didn’t offer anything great and he is just NOT THAT SPECIAL. Thanks to you and the community here, I was able to kick his sorry A to the a**clown curb. I had blocked his number at one time but it expired. Well I didn’t respond to his silly fishing expedition of a text and I don’t even want to. God that feels great and I’m going to say it again I AM NOT GOING TO RESPOND AND I DON’T EVEN WANT TO.
Just when I am about to make a big mistake ,these articles arrive at just the right time. I am trying NC but have failed twice now. I was just checking my email to see if he had tried to contact me. This was the email that I got instead. I have lost so much to this relationship invested everything. He walked out two weeks ago saying that “I drove him away”. He is not capable ,nor interested in reciprocal adult relationship . Everything is fine until I expect something from him, like reassurance or respect. Why cant I walk away when I know that he is toxic and that I deserve so much more ? I ask myself this every night as I cry myself to sleep.
Given that my father nor my mother really wanted a child, they just liked the idea of a child, it makes sense that I date only men who really don’t want me and then I make it my life’s purpose to get them to want me. It never turns out well. This last effort near killed me. My anorexia reared its mean, ugly head. My body made a very firm statement in this last relationship: You are not getting out of this alive if you stay. I won’t let you, so If you want to live, get out. I chose life. I got out. The anorexia got better, but, its rearing its ugly head again. I’m seeing it was there all along irrespective of who I dated. These men just triggered all my ailments. I guess I feel safe enough to finally deal with this monster. My anorexia has me asking: Why is God’s name do you hate yourself so much as to subject yourself to this kind of self punishment? Self punishment has been a way of life for me. A habit. A deeply, deeply ingrained one. I will do whatever it takes to overcome this.
I’ve blamed myself for my eating disorders. They began after my mom died when I was twelve and they’ve never let up. It’s constant hell on my body. I am in therapy, but I haven’t really delved into my eating disorders much. I skirt away from them. I think with enough willpower they’ll just go away. For sixteen years this mentality has not worked.
My unavailable alcoholic ex was nothing more than a distraction from myself, and just another way to punish my self. Being with someone to punish yourself?! That’s not love.
“Whatever you’re willing to settle for is what you’re going to get. If you’re willing to settle for crumbs it means that you’re willing to settle for less than mutual love, care, trust, respect and a relationship with intimacy, commitment, progression, balance and consistency and that’s before you even get near shared values.”
This is beautifully put. Thank you!
Recently my ex told me that he never thought I needed any real emotional support because I was so “strong”. We had many fights about how when I said I was upset or “devastated” by his lack of reaction to things or his lack of interest in my feelings…he just thought I was …talking sort of casually and it didn’t mean anything. It was like I was saying blah blah blah and he just tuned completely out. I don’t know if I even got crumbs.
I realized today (and this post confirmed it) that I never felt I had an intimate partner who was emotionally on my side…who I could really trust to show understanding of how things would affect me and how HE would affect me. I had a terrible trauma several years ago with a person very very close to me (and to him) and I had to make a trip alone to deal with it…I had to go to a psychologist to get enough stamina to do what was right. He was just “absent” during the whole thing- he never offered to come, he never was there for me or the other person. He was invisible. It was a dear friend who bought a plane fare to come with me and hold my hand and encourage me and listen to me cry in the plane. When I remember the situation (it turned out well and I handled it well and it was the right thing to do) he isn’t even in the picture frame.
I never had a partner who had my back. But instead of falling into self pity…it came to me…well then, I have to be on MY side! Period,full stop. And I can’t let MYSELF down. It is really a wake-up call. For we should never feed ourselves a crumbs diet. I want a rich nourishing meal.
espresso,
I can relate to almost all what you’re saying. The crumbs I got from the ex husband and ending up feeling that I’m on my own in such a harsh world. He, too, thought I was just blabbering when I prayed with tears in front of him that I’d be given enough strength to leave him, when I told him how he was pushing me away.
I was never very good at playing the damsel in distress role. I find it easier to offer help than to ask for it. I gave the impression of a strong responsible and caring woman, which I am proud to be. But, that doesn’t mean that when I’m with a man, he should be useless because he’s busy with “other stuff”.
I guess that’s the problem with Florencing too. You spend so much time, effort and energy on the other that you ignore your own needs. When you start expressing those needs after you reach your edge of the cliff, you find them gotten used to your florencing role and wondering why you’re becoming so “needy” all of a sudden. Then you’re back to questioning yourself and what’s wrong with you, which is absolutely NOTHING. Gosh, it was like running on a treadmill hoping it would get me somewhere other than drain my energy and emotions. I won’t let anyone do this to me anymore, not even the one I’m in love with right now. As Nat said in another post, love isn’t supposed to be painful, it’s mutual care, respect and happiness. If the tears are more than the GENUINE smiles, then something is deeply wrong. If the relationship is taking from you rather than adding, then it’s absolutely toxic. and that’s what makes me stick to my other ex-bf while he’s on therapy. Yes, his trauma and probable PTSD have caused him to act irrational and hurtful before, but during normal times, he always made sure I grow, meet friends, work out, spend time with my kids, get pampered even on my own. My self-esteem is never low around him
Unbelievable timing for me to be reading this post on this evening. Wish I had enough time to give details. Will re-read and re-read again and again. Exactly what I have been going through with him for over a year. Thank you ssoooooo much ! XOXO
Nat! Nat! Nat! Girl, you have come out swinging on this one!! I totally saw myself and my behavior described to a tee. All I can say is how ashamed I feel for compromising myself the way that I did….sigh
All of this makes sense, in my head. However, in my heart, I’m scared/worried. He’s been living with me for 2 years. He’s had a habit of leaving whenever he wants, and I’ve had the habit of taking him back. One week ago today, he left. So, 3 days after, I packed up his shit and changed the locks on the door. He was all about calling me after that. Last night, I returned some of his texts, and it was pleasant. Today, however I’ve heard nothing from him, and he hasn’t answered my calls I’ve made. I don’t know what to do. I am worried about him, but when he’s done this before and I’ve been worried, it’s just been his game. I’m freaking myself out. What would I do/how would I feel if something were really wrong? Does anywhere in any of these posts explain what to do If your wrong? I know I dont make sense.
Carolyna,
OK, I’ve been in this situation myself before. I chose to rationalise it as him being young and a bit of a party guy or whatever lame-o excuse I could concoct to prevent me from facing reality and losing my shit over it.
What I really could have used at the time was a housecall from Dr Harshy McHarsherson. I think you could benefit from a visit too. If you don’t want to hear what he has to say, just go over there in that corner, put your fingers in your ears and say ‘La la la’ over and over. Meanwhile, he’ll be just over here telling it like it is. Through a megaphone. A megaphone attached to an air raid siren. With flashing red lights and shit. OK? OK.
Girl, WTF? Let’s just look at this situation on paper. This asshole leaves his place of residence that he supposedly ‘shares’ with you without warning and without explanation for THREE WHOLE CONTACT-FREE DAYS and your next exchange is via TEXT? The only text that would have been acceptable to receive under these circumstances is “KIDNAPPED BY EASTERN EUROPEAN HUMAN BODY PARTS TRAFFICKING RING. KIDNEY, LIVER AND TONGUE REMOVED (HENCE TEXT). SEND HELP.”
But no. What was that text exchange like?
It was “pleasant.”
What in the name of fucking fuck, is there to be pleasant about? You feel like shit, he’s treating you like shit and frankly the whole thing stinks.
AND, where exactly does this guy go FOR THREE DAYS? Don’t tell me it’s to his mother’s. Seriously, don’t. Neither of us are that dumb.
You’re right, you’re not making any sense. But it’s not your fault, as someone said recently, you can’t make sense out of nonsense. Men who are supposedly in a committed adult LIVE-IN relationship don’t suddenly disappear without warning. Deep down, your lock-changin’ heart knows this. But as Nat says, you’re in OR you’re out. This guy, by his actions, has declared that he is VERY MUCH OUT. Words and actions not matching here girlfriend! Now, you need to listen to what he is saying by looking very closely at what he is doing.
And you can stop it with the “But something could have happened to hiiiiiim!!!” nonsense. He didn’t get run over by some busted ass bus (the universe isn’t that kind) and NO he isn’t somewhere rocking in the foetal position, paralysed by guilt that he treated you so shittily, unable to command his shaking fingers to dial your number. Truth be told, is he isn’t thinking of you at all (I told you Harshy McHarsherson was brutal). He is out there DOING WHATEVER SHIT THAT IS MORE IMPORTANT TO HIM THAN BEING IN A COMMITTED ADULT RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU. There is no possible WAY that you are the one who is “wrong”, and there’s no post of Nat’s that will make the truth go away. She brings it every time.
Now you have to decide what it is you should do about that, but I strongly suggest that whatever it is, it starts with the letters ‘N’ and ‘C’. This guy is literally begging you to leave him out in the cold. Be sure to sell all of his clothes on eBay first.
MS Determined,
I almost thought you were Nat in disguise. Excellent, excellent reply. Well done.
Oh Ms D, what can I say? And Carolyna…..2 years? 2 fucking years of this shit? Aren’t you BORED OUT OF YOUR MIND WITH IT?? *throws hand in air*
Hi Carolyna,
You are NOT in a relationship with him. You are his motel. Check-in, Check-out. Tell him there are no vacancies. Tell him you are closed for remodeling. Then immerse yourself in all BR articles.
Don’t worry about him. He’s fine. He managed to keep himself alive before he met you, probably with other women who let him do the same thing at their motel.
If he has a habit of leaving, he obviously has a place to go. I never met a man willing to be homeless in order to play games with a woman. They ALWAYS protect their needs.
@Kristen: I SO agree with and can relate to everything you wrote regarding being single. I, too, am happily single and have had similar experiences with women who hate being single and will take any man rather than be alone. I have also had snide remarks directed towards me by married women who act as though they are better than me because they have husbands and I do
not.
Gina,
I agree, although when I was married, I got snide remarks from women who were married, but who had children. Seems to be a weird hierarchy:
SINGLE: poor thing, glad it ain’t me, there must be something wrong with her. Keep her away from my man because she will try to seduce him.
IN A RELATIONSHIP: the middle child between single & married. Your single friends feel jealous, your married friends try to use peer pressure into becoming one of them.
MARRIED: look at me, I got a man! Ha-ha, losers! I WON!
MARRIED WITH CHILDREN: All ye must now bow down before me, for I represent the ideal of what all little girls must become.
If you tell anyone that you are perfectly happy being single, no one believes you. You must be in denial.
@Gina: Wow. I can’t believe these women actually do that to you. It’s like they’re in hs all over again, trying to tell single people to join the cool kids club through snide remarks. *shakes my head*
Gina, I get this a lot. There are very few single women my age where I live and the married women look at me like I have some kind of plague because I’m divorced. But when I look at a lot of their marriages, their husbands are douchebags and I feel NO envy whatsoever. My grandmother got this kind of treatment when she was a divorced woman…in 1949! It’s hard to believe it still goes on in 2013.
Mary please tryand work it out with your husband and walk away from this man . I was in exactly the same boat , i watched mm walk away but with someone eles . Please please read the signs and get right away from him . Take time out and either wk at it with ypur husband , is your husband a good solid dependable guy ? He may not give you the false feeling of the excitment of a affair but hes been there for you . Action is louded than lies and words . Work at it together bf all is lost and kick this mm back to where he came from . Somtimes and very rarely they do leave , they usually leave for someone new , the old ow are just a strength tool , ego support to help them go and get through it . Once they out they socialise and find someone new , eho is unaware of their bullshit soaked lives and believes their lies . Dont make the mistakes so many others includong myself has done . Big hugs xx
this one really hit me. while i was dishing out loaves, i was getting crumbs in return after a short period of getting some wonderful, sweet, buttery loaves.
at first i was confused why all of a sudden i was getting crumbs. i was wondering where the loaves went. then i found myself indeed ‘settling’ for the crumbs and started to make out that any random act of human kindness was his way of showing me how much he loved me and cared about me.
it really is amazing what we put up with when we’re starved.
Yep. The messing around with ‘scale’. Always looking to maximise what little he offered, my ex AC explained his compulsion to ‘manscape’ his downstairs (ahem) thusly; “If you remove the hedges, it makes the tree trunk look bigger.” Fuckwit.
Thank you for that guffaw, Ms D!
Kristen, you are an inspiration, how does one get from being where i am (still fearing being alone, still breaking nc) to where you are??x
This post absolutely describes me!!!!!!!! I’m someone who jumps out of joy given a little crumb a day/week/or month lol. Guess it’s the way I was brought up in a way; how to be perfect, how to find the right man, how to make him marry you, how to please everyone and be the lovable person that everyone just adores, etc etc. I will never be able to please everyone, let alone while jumping through loopholes. I lived 10 years on crumbs and was still wondering why he wasn’t satisfied.. Why I took it? Because priests, family and a chauvinist society told me I had to, I was falsely taught that a wife must please her husband even if he’s not such a good man; she’d win him over by being a good example. Who are they kidding? and who was I fooling? The more I offered and the less I accepted, the worse it became. I felt like chasing after a train that slows down just to let you fake a smile, then before you can catch it, it speeds up again. It was frustrating and unbelievably painful, demeaning and self-destructive. I knew all along deep down that was not me and that was not what I deserved. I am better than him, yet his false ego told him otherwise. Sad to say, I daily fed this monster of an ego. Until today, he considers himself a martyr of an ungrateful ex-wife who didn’t appreciate “everything” he gave her and did to her. The loser is still feeding on his own BS.
Wow, a lot of harshness here for Mary. I can feel your pain Mary, and the confusion of all these conflicting feelings. What we wish for vs what is reality. My marriage was not to a good man, I got crumbs and was happy to get anything. A running joke among our friends & family was that the dog got more attention than me. I ended up getting attention from other men. However, having been through that awful separation & divorce, I can still say if there is a chance to fix things, at least please try. Here’s an example of a place that works with couples even if you both are in love with others. Even if you want a divorce. http://www.joebeam.com/seminar_schedule.htm
I only wish I had more time, more counsel and more space to make good choices based on my values not my emotions. You’ve invested a lot into your marriage, perhaps you can invest a little more time into considering ways to get what you want and need from your husband. Take care Mary. It’s an agonizing time for you and this blog is a good place to hear sound advice. I’m sorry you got some pretty harsh responses today, all I feel is empathy.
A book that’s been helpful to me is ” Is It Love or Is It Addiction: The Book That Changed the Way We Think About Romance and Intimacy” by Barbara Schaeffer
My feelings this weekend were all about self love and filling my own love tank. This was timely as usual Ms Natalie.
Hi Runner,
You WERE too much for him and he could not stand it. That’s why he was compelled to make you feel “less than”. If he gave you his heart and tried to keep you happy and content, you would be too much for him, even moreso. You were too much for him to deal with while he was dishing out the crumbs. He knew you were a superior human being, so he intentionally, (no accident, mind you) had to tear you down to elevate his sorry ass.
Tinkerbell, your response really struck a chord. After extricating myself from an overtly, emotionally abusive situation with a former bf which was an obvious textbook case of narcissistic personality disorder, I saw how his ridicule and criticism was an attempt to tear me down in order to elevate his sorry ass. That was such an obvious case. I hadn’t really thought of the parallels with the situation with the exMM because it wasn’t as overt. The parallels are there though as you suggest. Much, much more subtle, at least to me. Excellent observation and you’ve given me some things to think about. The tearing down via crumbs and other such tactics is an interesting twist. Thank you for your comment.
Good day to everyone.
This is my first post in here. Been reading BR for some time together with all of the readers’ comments.
I wonder what it means when a guy says ‘you are just too much in a positive way’, then flees and then comes back with a note that ‘it’s him, not you.’?!
Ivana
It means DO NOT PASS GO.
Jettison him.
It always starts off with this confusing shite and ends with you sobbing into the carpet while he prances about elsewhere doing whatever the eff it is they do (which is not that interesting).
As soon as they start making excuses, eg “I,m not ready for a relationship, my ex hurt me, I have trust issues (sorry, I do get this one but it’s not up to my boyfriend to sort me out), it’s me not you, I,m confused, you’re too good for me, I’m moving to Antartica, my job is high pressure, my dog just died, I,m an addict, I,m married, I’m living with someone, my girlfriend is pregnant, my kids/wife/finances [insert excuse], I have a criminal record, I’m incarcerated, no-one understands me, my wife doesn’t understand me, I’m/It’s complicated, I don’t know what I want, I’m special/unique, I,m bad at relationships, I don’t believe in monogamy/marriage, I’m [insert religion] and you’re not, I can’t give you what you need/want/deserve” you need to drop and run.
Roughly translated it means “I’m a f*up but I’ve done the decent thing by telling you. Therefore you should give me a chance but not complain when I f* it up, because I warned you that I would. Here’s a crumb. It’s amazing isn’t it?”
Man, even the translation is confusing.
It IS him, it’s NOT you. Let him clear off and sort himself out on his own time, not yours.
The only thing you need to do, other than ignore him for the rest of your life, is ask yourself why you are even giving him the time of day. You can do better.
I forgot something Ivana (and anyone else in the same situation), you may very well be feeling that the man in question is sweet/caring/attentive, that he is pursuing you and that you have the upper hand.
GIVE ME YOUR CO-ORDINATES AND I WILL SEND THE EMERGENCY EXTRACTION TEAM!
Brilliant Grace! “here’s a crumb, it’s amazing isn’t it?” That is just what I was fed and how I reacted to it until I got BR wised up.
I think for me, BR was the emergency extraction team and I am eternally grateful. Ivana, what this means is exactly what this man is telling you. It’s him, it’s not you, and you will be just fine and dandy without him.
“I’m moving to Antartica”
hahahaha AC#1 once told me, “I really do like you but I’m moving to Afghanistan.” That was six
years ago – he hasn’t yet left the country.
Like when Chandler told Janice he was going to Yemen!!!???
hahahaha yep
Whahaha, laughing now:D one of my ex-ACs said he is going to go to Germany for work:D well he really went to Berlin-its a name of a bar he works in. And this bar is in the town we live in, of course:D
hahahhahaa I love this
Good day to you Ivana and it’s nice you posted here. I’m sorry though. I have to agree with all the translations of what he said to you. I would like to add one, the only one I think amazing Grace forgot: YOU DESERVE BETTER!
Always listen Ivana. His actions are matching his words. It is him, not you. I’m guessing they aren’t the actions or words you want to see or hear? I know I didn’t. So instead, I invented a fantasy and accepted crumbs in reality.
It means NOTHING.
Move on. Don’t waste a minute with this douche bag.
It means that there’s nothing to be done about it, because it’s him, not you.
It means he knows he’s not going to be able to be your match in ‘a positive way’. ‘It’s him, not you’ – believe it and let him go, he can only bring you down.
I should add that my exMM, in trying to pull an emergency evac when the shit hit the fan, tried to tell me what I needed and that I ‘deserved better’. I hated him for telling me what my needs where – how the hell would he know, it’ not like he asked what they were. BUT he was correct in that I deserved better – but I will add that both I AND his wife deserve better than his lying cheating manipulating ass, bet he never thought of that 🙂 I hope she wakes up
Jewells
Yeah
I got that line…”You deserve better..” when I complained about the crumbs. By then I was a BR reader and it was almost funny to hear the textbook MM/AC phrases being trotted out. Still not quite as nauseating as the delusional “at least I brought a little happiness into your life”. Er no you brought a lot of misery. Still if you will take up with a MM all there is ever likely to be is rotten stale old crumbs. It’s like foraging in a rubbish bin for food and hoping to find a three course gourmet meal. You might. But it’s highly unlikely. I have been feeling much happier recently; I never really did have the time and energy for all that and the rest of my life suffered so it’s nice making up in other areas that were neglected while I cried, worried, daydreamed, fantasized, felt depressed, checked my phone etc etc.
Thinking about it the actual time spent with him was insignificant compared to all the other stuff, do I guess there was a lot of the “fantasy relationship” going on there too. I’ve found it hard to break the habit of just staring blankly into space for great lengths of time, when it all just got too much and my brain just short circuited.
Thank you, Thank you so much Natalie, I truly needed this. I have been NC since October 16th and I have been doing great. I can’t lie, I miss him and I pray all the time he will come around.
The holidays were the worst. On December 26th he sent Merry Belated Christmas…who does that. That didn’t feel sincere. How do you forget Christmas. On January 3rd he sent, “Hi Paris, How is it going?” Both text I ignored.
I know these are both forms of lazy communication and he’s fishing to get his ego stroked. But a part of me wanted to believe he truly missed me and his next attempt would be a phone call. Well that hasn’t happened and yesterday I almost cut my NC and called him. This article popped up and saved me.
Thank you so much. Some days are easy, but I believe since he tried some lazy communication my weak mind is trying to tell me that he cares, but reality is he is still only offering crumbs. I just need to continue to be strong. I really thought my weak moments were gone.
But once again Thank you and I want to hold onto NC because like the quote said, “it’s not about my feelings but about what I deserve” and I know I deserve much better than him.
Paris, we always try to find excuses for them…Trust me, if they really missed and wanted us, they could find us (all of them know where we live)! My current AC sent me 2 lazy emails and I ignored them, if he really CARE about me, he would come with flowers and beg me for forgiveness…HE is not in rush to do that, so I will ignore him:) Please stay strong and DO NOT contact him!!!
This article really hit home with me today…
Of late it has occurred to me that the mind set of a long time single person & that of one in a long term relationship are quite different. Neither is wrong nor right , just very different. But I have walked both paths so I can recognize it a bit more keenly. When I was with my long term partner I often put his happiness ahead of my own. I appeased myself by believing that in pleasing him I was being loving. That the art of committment meant compromise. I was soon to learn that there is fine line between compromise & loss of identity. We often have an urge to merge with one we love so completely , we lose touch with our true self. Indeed most of what society tells us is that to be a good person we should put ourselves second, or third, or wherever the number falls, to those we love. Yet countless times that backfires. The person we gave the most of ourselves away to, rejects us & we are left singular. There are countless reasons why people gow apart. But underneath them all , is the fact we ourselves have stopped growing into whom we are meant to be completely. Some call this sacrifice & are quite willing to do it to be loved. So that when one relationship ends, we quickly put ourselves out there to find the ONE. All the while leaving pieces of ourselves strewn along the path. For many that is the way of it. They accept it as a great journey with many stops along the way. And there is something to be said about what each person teaches us, reveals to us about ourselves. Yet there is even more to learn about why we attach so much importance on Others, when it is ourselves we always wind up with.Whether we choose to stay within the bounds of our relationship & try to make it last or recreate the joy from when it began , or simply acccept the stages it evolves into , or whether we break free from it, we still our left with ourselves.
I recognized that there was a pattern to my relationships. And I did the unthinkable, I stepped away from them. At first this was quite hard, to face myself, warts & all & embrace myself with the sole responsibility to care for my own needs, both material & emotional. To find the meaning to my life without someone to reflect it back to me. I felt, not only very alone , but very odd, unlovable. Always wondering why I could not be like everyone else who found such peace & bliss with another. I constantly compared myself to others & came up lacking. Until I began to realize that I was doing to myself what my past partners had done to me. I was stilll viewing myself through the eyes of judgement. Still holding myself to the expectations of those outside me. That is the moment the shift of perception came. I learned to love my privacy. My days off became days of self exploration. I took myself to the places I wanted to go. I enjoyed the moment for what it was. I, in fact, began daing myself. And I liked myself!
There are those that will say perhaps I like myself a bit too much. That I therefore will not find love. But in truth I now KNOW who I am. I know that I will continue to grow. But I like the person I have become, enough to not settle for anything or anyone that cannot accept all of me, in all ways. I do not go out looking for a person to complete me. I live my life my way. Whether there is a person out there that wishes to walk the Path with me or not, I keep going forward. I know that what I want differs from what many others do. Instead of a relationship I want a REALationship. Two equals sharing the journey. Til then I just enjoy the scenic route of Soul merged to body…
Hugs to everyone here…
Ivana thats a get out card , nothing wrong with you at all .i woke feeling a bit down bout thinking at 43 how hard it is . But since reading here im looking forward to learning about being happy being single and not ising anyone as fall back or anything . I got the weekend in but ive even got use to that ill practise guitar and do my english . I may take myself to the flicks get me !!!! Every time i feel remotely low and thinking of contact i just say what for tired ? A fake disinterested reply . I have real friends . Stick your crumbs .
‘It haunts you that this person doesn’t want you and it scares you when you know that you had no business giving them the time of day let alone the steam off your pee.’ You’ve hit the nail on the head Natalie. After several failed attempts at NC I finally did it and ignored the AC. He still texts me – the latest said ‘I will be around at the weekend’. Probably sent to the harem to see who responded. After the AC came the ‘returning childhood sweetheart’. My first ever boyfriend claimed he’d been looking for me for years. I told him I’d been widowed 3 years ago and a long series of affectionate emails and Skype calls followed. He lives on the other side of the world, but was coming to see me..wanted us to get back together..it was all very romantic (I thought) and the calls became quite steamy. Then he started to pull back..too busy to Skype, emails became shorter. I was bewildered and told him I wasn’t up for a short fling nor as an option. He stopped contacting me completely. I looked at his Facebook ( I know I shouldn’t and I won’t again) and he’s now contacting the girlfriend after me- but also seems to have a long standing gf where he lives. BUT – I feel embarassed and such a fool. Two ACs in a year. Both were crumb ‘relationships’ (I ended up just a booty call to the first AC) and I’m angry with myself for letting myself believe all the crap from both of them, as it’s obvious I meant and mean nothing at all to either of them. I’m full of regrets and feel totally humilated and its hard for me to move on or trust a man again.How could I let this happen to me after a long happy marriage to my lovely late husband?
Shattered,
You’re not a fool. Countless women have been in your position. My friend was recently contacted by her childhood sweetheart who was traveling to the states on a business trip. He told her that he would love to see her again, so she bought a (very expensive) plane ticket, and he never got back in contact. She left him voicemail messages and emailed him and he didn’t respond until she sent him an angry email and called him out on it. His response? “I never told you to buy a ticket.” She was out $600.
I feel like you are being very hard on yourself–I have a tendency to do that too! Fact is, you are out of those relationships, you aren’t pursuing these assclowns, and you’re not falling for their bullshit anymore. There are plenty of women who don’t have the courage to do that…yet. I know I was one of them for a long time. You have a lot to be proud of. Anyone can be duped or fooled–it doesn’t make you a dupe or a fool. I think what you’re feeling is very natural, but don’t allow yourself to wallow in regret and indulge in self-flagellation. You’re in a great position to learn about who you are, what you want, and what you need to do (and avoid!) to get there.
At my counseling session yesterday, I called myself stupid (quite unwittingly). My counselor stopped me and said, “You don’t allow other people to talk to you like that and call you names. Why do you allow yourself to do it?” Be gentle to yourself–I’m saying that to myself as much as I’m saying it to you 🙂
Natalie … I believe you were divinely inspired with this one. 🙂 SO many great points. Thanks! FYI … You’re No Good – Linda Ronstandt.
Again, this is why such long periods of NC w ex now deceased AC. I know a crumb from a loaf & had no qualms about telling him to take his minute specks of flour & to shove it! My problem was being drip fed (lies to make me pity him or future fake) & nievely believing them, which inevitably led to me eventually breaking NC. I honestly believe he was taken from this earth (even though I was already well in2 FINAL nc by then) partly, so I (& the mother of his child, who turned out, he was also messing around) would no longer have to suffer. The only person I pity now is that poor child (12 yo boy). No feelings for deceased ex AC really. Too blinded even now by the horror of what he put us all through w his BS! What a damaged abusive person he was! ugh!
“I took my single self off the market to be available for a part-time lover and have believed in you, listened to you like an armchair psychologist and acted like I don’t have needs so I don’t look like ‘them’ or scare you off, and it’s still not enough for you to leave? You’ve practically made out like you live with a psycho/tyrant/in a living hell but we’re still not together?”
Talk about my life from January 2009 to September 2012 with 2 different women. The first popped up during a time I was genuinely trying to work to improve myself and I put MYSELF on the back burner to bend over backwards to be cool and say the right thing and always be available for someone who had temporarily replaced the company of their scumbag ex with me. When the ex got out of prison (YES, prison – for stealing from her boss) I got thrown to the back burner despite all of the terrible stuff that was done by this person in their past relationship. The only credit I can give her at all was that she didn’t feed me the “I love you” lies. Yes there was slight future faking but what got me was how she’d rather spend the time with the gross ex instead of me. Not to mention she was a TOTAL TEXTBOOK NARC and I refused to feed her ego like the ex seemed to always do. So, let’s ditch the good one for the one that literally put her out of house and home for never paying major bills.
And directly (not even completely, really) out of that I went into the most recent. Straight girl in an almost 15 year (at the time, now it’s almost 17 year) abusive relationship with a man. Wasted 20 months of my life on that. The lies, the future faking, the “I don’t have a boyfriend, we’re just roommates and I hate him” bullshit. TALK ABOUT CRUMBS. I got less than crumbs from her, I got fried up pocket lint. She put me in dangerous situations and even faked 2 suicide attempts. What. Was. I. Thinking? Finally I just couldn’t take it anymore and despite her 4 months of harrassment via email I think I’m finally going to be left in peace. I sure hope her wrong decision was worth the miserable life she will always have as long as she stays with that maniac.
But looking back throughout my life, I’ve always taken crumbs from everyone. From both of my parents who put me in the middle of their messy 7 year separation and divorce (while my little brother went pretty much unscathed and is now the “GOLDEN CHILD”) to every relationship I have ever had.
No wonder I have been single for 10 years. I’ve had “situations”, but in no way would I ever label any of them “relationships.” Not healthy, no respect, no CONSISTENCY, no real love or caring involved. Meanwhile I busted my ass to stay in good light and hope that one day I’d do the right thing to “get the prize”. Now I realize I never wanted those crappy broken junk toys to begin with and now I’m much better off, and while sometimes I have very bad days where I still question my value and my worth, I am back on the path to myself and taking care of me. Lessons hopefully forever learned!!!
My apologies for the rant, but this post really REALLY hit home.
Wow. This post just opened my eyes to so many things! It was my fault because I allowed it and pretended to be ok with crumbs. Thank you Natalie! I will be reading more.
this is a great article and i wish it made me feel better. I was doing so good have had no contact with my ex of 6 years for about 6 months now and than yesterday I find out that he has been dating a senior in high school. He is 38 and she is 19, than I find out that 2 years agot he was cheating on me witha girl who was 20. Now I am 33 and I sit here and think “wow” this all makes sense. When we were together I always had my suspicions but never had anything to go on and now I know its because how would I had known about these little girls. It makes me sick to think that the person I was with for 6 years the person who was in my sons life and who I thought I was going to marry would even look at a girl 19 years younger let alone be with them. He has nieces her age and a son that is her age. I just feel so humiliated that this is what he was doing.
Moving forward, it’s not surprising you feel that way.
What would you, at 33, have in common with a 14 year old boy on any level? Nothing. That’s the same age difference as those two.
What the hell is wrong with society now that ‘barely legal’ is somehow considered to be the grade-A number one best thing a man can say to describe a young woman?
Imo, it depends upon personal interpretaion. I would think that he’s giving you a compliment, indirectly i.e, he thinks highly of you, you’re the best ( intelligent, capable, independent, strong, beautiful. etc. Especially when he comes back with a note saying, “it’s him not you.” He is leaving a lot, too much, in my opinion, to your imagination instead of coming right out and saying what he means. Why don’t you ask him? And NO TEXTING. That’s just another opportunity for him to be evasive. He is a grown man, right? Welcome, Ivana. Keep reading, sharing and asking your questions. You’ll learn a lot here.
@ Getsmartyr. Clever moniker, btw. That’s what happens when you focus on YOU, giving yourself the love, care, trust and respect. You feel better and it is reflected on your face and the way you carry yourself, head held up, without slumping. What you describe is exactly the transformation, I went through, and still am. Gradually, you won’t even know this is happening and people gravitate to and want to engage with someone who appears to be content in their own skin. They want to know your secret. LOL! Send them to BR. Good for you! Tink.
Yes lots of people do all these things through sheer loniliness. But it does get better. Discover yourself and who you are, that should take up more of your time and it DOES get so much better when you like yourself and stop concentrating on that other man, Let him go.!
@Paris
Merry Belated Christmas…really??
Ok, so I am quite sure the year and a half long relationship I was in was quite crumb filled (given how things never felt balanced), but I’d like to get definitive answer on what crumbs are exactly? We were long distance, so I made many excuses as to why he made little to no efforts at communication, but after awhile even I started to break down and stop believing my own BS. It got to a point where our whole relationship consisted of nothing but facebook messages.
Ivana. There are differing opinions on what he meant. The best thing to do is have him explain himself. It’s sad that some of us immediately assume the negative and that the guy is an AC. That’s calling someone guilty before even trying to be fair. You did not tell us in what context he said this, nor do we know anything about previous interaction between the two of you in order to make an accurate judgement. I prefer to think positive until I am GIVEN A REASON to flush. And then I can do that very well.
Tinkerbell! Back to BR 101 with you.
The guy just attempted the entry level ‘flaming douche’ maneuver.
Low difficulty score for him and high difficulty score for Ivana (or any other receiver) as she attempts to work out what his statement really means.
But, you know, he must really be a nice guy, he left a note with four (wholly original) words to explain his emotional landscape to Ivana.
His behavior is very good reason to flush right now ‘cos it is a very clear indicator of what will happen in the future while Ivana (or any other girl) ‘thinks positively’.
Dating is neutral territory – think positively about someone after they give you a reason to think positively about them.
GI
GettingIt
Agree. In the UK at least, “it’s not me, it’s you” is something you say when you dump someone. The first time I realised it was when watching Big Brother. The resident AC had taken up with the resident pretty girl, and was trying to disengage from her. She looked at him blankly as he hummed and hah-ed but when those words crawled out of his mouth she shrieked “Oh my God, I can’t believe you just said that?!!” She was very young and she got it before I did. I hope she did better for herself when she got out.
The second time I realised its meaning was when I was thinking about giving my current boyfriend the push while still keeping him “on tap”. He hadn’t done anything wrong but my anxiety over a new relationship was killing me. I thought “it’s not you, it’s me” would be a good thing to say. Then I realised – it really would not! I wanted him to give me an ongoing free pass to be commitmentphobic and mistrustful because of my past. I decided to step up instead.
grace, Victorious, Getting it!, Sunyata, jewells, Tired and Thinkerbell, thank you for comments and insights you shared.
I thought trough situation and concluded more or less what all of you said as well.
Maybe it is fair to mention I am a bit of EUW (issues from the past) and an ex AC (been told by most of the people I have a ‘male’ brain and am too closed).
While was trying to change myself and gain bigger awareness of my own mistakes and wrong doings, make peace with others and myself I met this guy somewhere on the way.
He did not pursue me, I pursued him (in most of my romantic relationships I am the one who makes a first move and I am the one who leaves them at the end).
In order to deal with myself I decided not to date for a year and not to even have sex, while trying to figure out what the heck went wrong somewhere on the way…
@Tinkerbell
I forgot to say, i did give him a chance to explain himself and he said he doesn’t date at the moment (very long moment).
We only talked a lot, never had anything actually happened, not even a kiss.
Funny, he is like male version of me.
But I did him go.
Now on my own BS diet and on a diet of my own BS.
always thought i was stupid for being the one stressed out while the EUMs of the world seem jooy happy but started to wonder if EUM and ACs ARE happy at all? as much as we are getting crumbs from them as fallback girls surely our “love” aint that nourishing either? don’t they also feel as miserable after every non-fulfilling relationship after another or are they some different type of human that does not need love? why don’t they ever just get sick of it at some point?
@books,
We’re kinda in the same place, you and I. My relationship is online too. We’ve had many pitfalls, but many great moments as well. I’m still confused about him.. still hoping he is who everyone thinks he is. We have a number of common friends and everyone who knows him (online/offline) thinks the world of him. Yet, sometimes, I feel I’m getting crumbs. It’s a sucky place to be; floundering in the dark. I am moving on with my life, that life that at one point was planned around him. If our paths meet, great. If he wants them to meet, he’ll work hard at it. If not, then I think our ghost of a relationship could be dying a slow death. I, too, was wondering what crumbs are in a long distance relation. But, I think I’m just fooling myself; it’s exactly what I’m getting, an email before he gets to bed, a chat while he’s on his way out, and those aren’t even frequent or consistent. Long distance should be worked harder at than IRL ones, he needs to reassure his s/o he’s there for her, it’s what I do for him anyway. I’m online almost 24/7 on my phone if not laptop or pc. He doesn’t like those phone apps and is too busy to chat daily. Do you relate to any of this? I feel kinda odd with this online thing. But, it happened and I fell head over heels for him.
So, are you still together? Do/did you have any plans to meet? It’s good to find someone out there who knows what it’s like to be in a long distance relation.
MSA
Have you ever actually met in person? Your post seems to suggest not, and I was wondering why that was. Is he in a different country?
@Mymble,
We haven’t met in person. We live an ocean apart. I’m moving to his country though either way (not because of him, rather for study/career purposes). This is why I am saying if he wants to see me and make this real, he’s more than welcome. If not, then bad for him. I could be in his country and still miles away, I still don’t know where exactly I’ll settle. But, I will have gone that far. Any more needed steps should be on his part. I have 2 kids and he’s single and younger. The idea of kids kinda scares him. I’m not putting much hope as I used to on this relationship. Like I said, I’m getting on with my life. I am not open to the idea of dating other men anyway for a few reasons, one of which is that I am not planning to stay here, so why date someone and then start the long distance all over again?? Enough of that. It’s like a transitional phase I’m in atm, and he has that much time to make up his mind. I’ve mentioned on other posts he was having problems, and now getting therapy. We’d broken up a couple of months ago. It was ugly. Now, we’re friends. He says and shows me he still loves me, but has to deal with those problems first so that we don’t end up in a mess like we did before. I also told him I’m not ready to date now after what happened. He needs to regain my trust again, if ever. To be honest, I still believe in him, just not sure about “us” if that makes any sense?? I mean he’s not an AC, but I’m not sure if we’ll work out together, so not fantasizing it nor is the idea totally out of consideration. I’m just working on myself, feeding myself strength, self-esteem and emotional independence and letting time deal with the rest. I’m almost addicted to BR, Nat and the readers. You guys rock!! I don’t know where I’d be without you. I found the site and the FB group right before our last breakup and it helped me through it and until now. I’m still a BR toddler, but I’m learning 🙂
@books,
sorry to hear about your AC. It’s the excuses we make that really tells the crumbs from the real thing. I know most LDR’s are fantasies; they are mostly based on the person’s perception of the other, on their projections of the images in their minds, especially if they initially met online like we did.
@Misty,
Ouch! sounds like us… We’re in the “friends” phase now, been together for 2+ years. Sorry you had to go through this. LDR are very hard to deal with and to discern its genuineness in the first place. But, I mean if there is no plan, then it’s not going anywhere. That was one of the reasons why I am doubting if the person I’m seeing has ever been serious. When he knew I was moving, he kinda freaked out. I felt like, “Excuse me, are you for real? did you expect us to stay digital till disconnection do us part?” That’s apart from the fact that I am NOT moving for him in the first place.
MSA
You are in a fantasy relationship. He doesn’t love you, he can’t, because he doesn’t know you. I believe that we are still “stone age” and genetically hardwired to bond through day to day proximity, face to face interaction, eye contact, body language, observation of real life reactions and behaviours with ourselves and in company with others, even smell.
You cannot do any of these things through a computer screen. He cannot love you, or even be your friend, because he doesn’t know you in any meaningful way, and vice versa. Even if he isn’t consciously trying to deceive you, you will get no idea of the real him.
There are some good posts on here on this subject. Search “fantasy relationships”.
Say it like it is, Mymble!
I met someone years ago online at a time they were travelling around the world. We wrote to each other, swapped info, stories, photographs. NOTHING could have prepared me for the gap between what appeared to be a really cool friendship/possible relationship and the reality. It is indeed a complete and utter fantasy! Until you meet the person, you have absolutely no hope in hell of getting to the ‘unveiling’ stage where someone is comfortable enough and transparent enough to show you who they really are. There is no way around that. Certain things in life do not have shortcuts.
True meaningful and lasting relationships of any sort can only take place in person.
That simple.
You might be able to do some maintaining from afar but even that has its limitations. Intimacy requires being in each other’s presence as a basic pre-requisite!
@MSA
I honestly don’t get how never meeting someone and never ever having even touched them, hugged them kissed them equals a “relationship”. There is no such thing as a “relationship” that is online. It is a pen pal freindship. You can’t be in love with someone who you have never met. It is just fantasy.
Totally agree with Mymble and Dancing!
Truth, dq! I am thoroughly perplexed by the whole “online relationship” phenomenon. I understand “online dating” to mean that you find someone via your computer and then meet ASAP, not that the actual “relationship” takes place in cyberspace. Why would anyone even get started with someone who is a GU? (Geographic Undesirable is the term I’ve always used for anyone who lives further than 30 minutes away – in rush hour traffic!) I understand an LDR that happens in an already committed r/s because of circumstances like work relocation. tired of assanova often said something like , “A relationship needs to pass the touch test.” I think one needs to really look into one’s own emotional availability if she/he seeks or accepts these fantasy connections.
MSA
You should be very careful, I ended up with the abusive ex via an online “relationship” (which really was nothing). You have no idea who he is and yet you have spent two years of your life believing yourself to be in a realtionship with him. You’re in the justifying zone – it’s fine because you’re not meeting anyone else anyway, you’re not really moving for him, you’re “just friends”. Well, I beg to differ. If this man wasn’t taking up your time and energy, who knows who else you might have met in two years and what turn your life may have taken.
When are you moving? Have you been planning this move for two years? You still don’t know where exactly? I used to be very reluctant to put roots down. It was only when I committed myself to a life and a place that,
Sod’s law, I’ve met someone and may have to sell up and, yes, move. But I don’t think I would have met him if I was always looking over my shoulder for “the next thing”.
I,m not saying you shouldn’t move but – have a plan, with dates and locations. Otherwise life passes by while nothing comes to fruition and no real relationship ever materialises.
I am sceptical of long distance relationships anyway, having been in more than my fair share, but you don’t even have that. It’s pure fantasy. You can’t break up with someone where there was no relationship, you’re not dating if you dont’ go on actual dates and he barely qualifies as a friend.
I had a couple of “relationships” where I took the big step such as handing the notice in on my flat, or leaving someone, and each time the person I was doing it for got cold feet. I pursued them anyway and “won”, but not really. Because, in the end, it just wasn’t worth it.
He may be an ocean away but he’s still making the classic EUM noises.
MSA, i totally agree with grace. i met my ‘soulmate’ online. it was great. we even met in person, it was even better. lucky me, i had hit the jackpot after falling for one jackass after the other.
oh wait… after dreaming about him for months, spending every waking moment talking to him, dreaming about him, emailing him, believing every word he said, i was so deep into fantasyland that nothing could have shaken me out of it. oh wait… there was one thing: getting strung along and then dumped during a trip abroad which should have been the trip of a lifetime.
i had given up another great opportunity to work and live abroad to be with this EUM/AC instead.
you can NEVER fully know someone when you meet them online. i thought that after soooo many hours of skyping, so many emails, so much intimacy and emotional closeness, and yes, even meeting in person, blinded by lust i guess, i knew this man.
as it turned out, i had no clue. i thought he was everything i had been looking for. when i spent 24/7 with him he was NOTHING like it.
he chased me hard and when he got me, he didn’t even have the balls to be honest with me. he strung me along instead, hoping i’d take the hint. disgraceful.
MSA, please be very careful. i already see red flags popping up left right and centre.
Mymble, Bermiegirl, dancingqueen, Allison, FX, grace, natashya,
Thank you all for the replies and the heads up. I already have my share of doubts, so yes, I may say I am prepared for what may come, but to be brutally honest, I am not that prepared. I am trying to stay away. Easier said than done. I think I need to sit with myself and force myself to NC, which I am honestly not strong enough to do right now and I know I may regret it. It’s a journey and I am aware of where I’m at.
grace, I don’t know where I’ll settle, not because I haven’t decided or waiting on him. But, I’m moving to study. I saved up, applied at a number of programs and still waiting to hear from them. I do have a plan.. for myself, my life and my kids. If this doesn’t work out, I’ll find another plan. I believe in myself and my potential. Yes, he still takes a part of my thinking, but I’ve gone a milestone from where he used to take all of it. He’s not a main part of my future planning unless he proves himself to be worthy of it WHEN we do meet.
Also, regarding LDRs in general, of course it’s not the best r/s ever, but it happened. we talked and talked for hours when we first met, and yes, I felt the connection. I felt that this is someone who liked my intellect, my essence, my values before he even knew what I looked like. I felt the same about him. For me, it’s like a pre-step of a r/s like some of you said. We had plans on meeting right after we knew each other. For reasons beyond our control on both sides, those plans were postponed. I’ve seen some LDRs that worked and some that haven’t. It has its pros and cons. I agree that the ONLY reality check for it is when the two meet. My ex-husband managed to keep a mask all through our r/s before marriage and we almost met daily. Other ACs also showed their a**es only after spinning their webs around me. it’s not about whether it’s online or offline, it’s about the integrity of a person and when it comes to that, no guarantees ever. I must say, it was a tough experience. If it doesn’t work out, I’m probably not going there anymore.
I know I’ve written a long post, but one more point, not everyone is alike. Some might want to meet causally first; in a cafe or a game, some like to have fancy first dates; a wine and dine one, others like to meet in a pub or club. It’s about your own comfort. I think probably because both of us are a bit too shy, we turned to a LDR. That is not to say we met on a dating site, we met through some common friends. We both write and I think our quiet natures was our common starting point. What happens next.. when we meet, I don’t know. I’ll keep you posted.
Apart from that, I just need all the crossed fingers and prayers I could get to be admitted to a good postgrad program 🙂 This is what I most hope for atm. Wish me luck!
MSA
I do hear what you’re saying, people are different and we can’t apply broad brusthstrokes. but please see that not seeing someone for two years is really, really, really, really, very unusual indeed. And then for that to turn into a bona fide relationship when one party already has cold feet is so small there aren’t enough decimal places on my calculator to figure out the odds against it.
Yes, it is possible. It’s also possible that the world will end this week and I can spend all my savings on one last wild weekend of drugs, booze and sex.
I’m going to feel shit on Monday though.
Love this, grace! So funny and so true.
MSA
you say it is about the integrity of a person but with respect I think that is missing the point. He may have a fine level of integrity but not be in any way a match for you. The problem is you seem to be so heavily invested – in a stranger.it’s like collecting information on a film star – you may have seen him being interviewed on TV, know all his biographical details, tastes, health issues, past lovelife. You know ABOUT him but you dont HIM. An LDR is
one where you have to travel to see each other, and do. No seeing – means no relationship. I do sympathise, as I had some elements of imagining I knew someone really well, from electronic communication, when really I didn’t know them nearly as well as I thought, and didn’t see them
often.
It’s really easy to fall for this online stuff because you don’t have the vulnerability of putting yourself out there, as you do in real life. Unfortunately it usually is a massive waste of time and energy. Ask yourself, why is this guy wanting to find a “relationship” online with a woman in another country? Are there no decent women where he lives? Unlikely. The answer here is that HE DOESN’T WANT A RELATIONSHIP.
We’ve been broken up for about 8 months now. Yes, we did meet. We were close distance for a few months and then went long distance when I had to move back to my home country. I made most (90%) of the effort in the relationship because (I rationalized) he was poor and couldn’t afford any attempts at communication that went beyond facebook messages. I visited him, took care of all expenses while there, called him regularly and even sent him money to (supposedly) help pay for his school. He didn’t do much of anything expect future fake with me. While we were together, I belonged to a message board called “loving from a distance” and in hindsight, TONS of members’ relationships were just fantasies and nothing more. For every online couple that met/hit it off, there were 10 more that seemed to sustain themselves on empty promises.
Books sometimes I think we are all crazy, I mean…a message board created for people ‘loving from a distance’. Sick just sick. I don’t know what country you are in but in the U.S. a very popular football player is in the news because of an online relationship he had for 2 years where the girl supposedly died but they hadn’t actually met. Everyone thinks he made the story up to garner attention, whether he did or didn’t both ideas are sick.
Sm, I was wondering when the Manti Te’o situation was going to hit BR. It’s all over the news in the US . Prior to BR, I would have totally dismissed the story. However, knowing how I subsisted on online crumbs with a person (exMM) who I actually saw regularly, I do understand how online crumbs can be baked into a loaf. Then, there is a TV show called Catfishhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catfish:_The_TV_Show. This would have escaped my attention prior to BR as well. Apparently, these types of crumb folks are out there in cyberspace as well as IRL. I’m not saying that anybody else’s situation is similar to mine. Having subsisted on a nice hybrid of in-person-crumbs and cyber-crumbs, I’d have to say for me a crumb is a crumb.
Runner, I too would have dismissed it before BR. Even the part where he lied and said he did see her a couple times, he probably lied out of embarrassment of the fact that he was calling someone his gf that he had never met. Now media time is burned up on this stuff, its unbelievable to me. I too have had relationships that started online, we did eventually meet more than once but I now look at those situations as my seriously EUW ways. I am not grateful for any of these relationships and would be better off had I never experienced them.
Great article. I just had a “crumb” yesterday. He’s leaving for a trip out of the country in a couple of days and I stated that I would like to see him before he leaves. So, he text me at 3:45 and said “Hey you.” I responded “Hey you back.” Two hours passed and I text “Would like to see you since you are leaving in two days, but also understand if you are on borrowed time.” Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Until 11:45 p.m. Then a text “I know it’s late, but I would love for you to come in and lay with me for awhile.” Seriously? I live 20 minutes away. I am proud to say that I wrote back and said “Yes, it is late. I’m in bed. Nite, nite.” But that is the type of crumbs I get ALL THE TIME. Usually…they are: miss your face, are you still sexy?, come to me, or he’ll send me an article, or he’ll send me an email that has NOTHING in it so I’ll write back and say ??. All part of the game. And I fall for it every time.
Well, thanks. We did not have enough information and should have not have judged so quickly. Also in different regions of the country or the world certain statements are generally understood differently. Where I live, we say that a lot, i.e “Girl, you’re too much”. Men say it to women, also. It’s positive and means the person is gutsy, bold, “out there”, has a lot going for them, is funny (as in character). It is not interpreted as negative unless the person receiving, chooses to take it that way. And then, what is she/he basing that on? These days it seems we have to have the skills of a hostage negotiator, because there’s so much indirectness and BS going on. I, personally don’t have time for that.
As this is the first time in a very long time ive actually been on my own . I to find it hard . I was married twenty yrs and its been four months since i walked fromm the mm. Its been over a month no contact and a month no snooping . Ive surprised my self . I do have wobbles but i have not gone back there . How do any of you girls get over the low days you have ? I mooch about ? When does this pass ? I think now the drama is well and truly over for me its lije its sinking in . Does the pull of somtimes breaking nc ( not ghat i have ) ever go away ? X
Tired,
Good for you!!!!
Yes. The pull does stop, the longer you remain NC. Do you keep yourself busy in your free time, with activities and friends?
yes i have a circle of friends and i go away weekends. as soon as i knew about ow i knew what was coming so i walked and signed up for for courses etc .he ended it many years,ago as he was about to get marriex and i went through hell i prepared signed up to s councellor weekly now as i get over it every two weeks . i go there and vent and say stuff that other wise would go round and round in my head .but get this the urge to analise every thing time and time again is going !!!! so im healing slowly .i cant stop the odd thought now and then like if they go shopping or what they doing etc etc but thats fading as,well as i except it x
Oh, the crumbs! They equaled one excuse after the other.Not to mention the pathetic lies that accompanied them. What was fascinating was that the slice of bread slowly (in the beginning) slowly, over the course of one year, diminished into the speck of a crumb. I did realize what was happening, but was so far in that I allowed the boundary busting to continue. In hindsight and with strict NC, I can very clearly see how he managed my expectations downward. The last straw (or crumb) was when HE got mad at ME for wanting to see him on a day that both our schedules allowed for. His reaction was so viceral that it scared me and to top it, his ability to manipulate was so good that I ended up apologizing for asking to see him! I laugh as I type this. What an AC. This is a great post. Definately reminding me of why I went NC two months ago.
Kookie, They are happy enough – well instead of happy replace that with “content.” The thing is, they are preoccupied with something else which is why they are EU in the first place. They have not committed to you and not put their heart totally into anything, so its not that big a loss for them to let you go, or even if you let them go unless they have ego issues to go along with it. Believe me, I speak from experience on both ends.
I can also tell you that you are right they do eventually get tired of it and want something “real” … I still sincerely think my ex girlfriend was at this point when she found me. The thing is, that if the issues that create their unavailability aren’t uncovered and dealt with, at some point they will come up again – and they will “go cold” and freeze your ass right out of the picture. If you can piece together my story on here throughout the verious posts go back and read it – it will give you a step by step manual as to how this f-d up process works lol. I see it for what it is now.
I harbor no ill will towards my ex at all.. and I understand it so much better now and I actually feel bad for her and her situation in life that led her to reel me in on fast forward then get scared and push me right back out of her life just as fast and hard. I also admit my issues that make me succeptable to this (just like this post said about changing who you are and being who they want to try to get back more than the crumbs that have become the norm). I change myself to please who I am with – and the less I get the harder I try, because I am trying to right the wrongs of people long gone out of my life.
Natalie is absolutely right, if you are enough for yourself you won’t fall victim to this crap of not being enough for someone else. You will be able to say “Hey, Im not getting what I need out of this and I am worth more that this.. CYA!!!” You don’t have to not care about others, but you DO have to care more about yourself and well being. It doesn’t make you a bad person to put yourself first, it makes you a healthy one who is available to give in good measure without giving away your soul. Good people who know they are EU sometimes wake up too and feel bad that they aren’t able to give you what you need.. and they let you go. This probably happened to me. At some point maybe they will work things out for themselves, but what you need to do is be ok in yourself and move on. There’s better ones out there and you won’t find them trying to save someone who doesn’t want to be saved by you. Don’t hang on to someone who wouldn’t hang on to you.. there’s a reason you’re not together.
thanks bob72!
that was a really clear way to explain things. something you wrote made me realise that i have probably been an EU of the ego -variety , i was just as uninvested in my EUM as he was in me…until we broke up and i suddenly felt so rejected and put out.
i broke up with him because the accumulated years of unsatisfying relationships suddenly caught up with me and just made me snap three months into this kind of non-relationship but it felt like he had dumped me for how upset i was.
i “moved on” but just working on mentally moving on and actually doing the hard work to become available. argh, some days seems easier to train for a baby goal , like learning to be content with my unavailability like my ex probably is. he may not be happy but at least he aint a mental mess like i am. but most days i know i do want more than to coast through life; i’m still young (27) and willing.
good luck to you and thanks for your response , it really helped me think.
Thanks to you all too.. well acutally all of you all on here – Natalie’s posts and your ladies (mostly) input have helped me to at least see something I have never been able to do anything about in my life up until now. I guess everything really does happen for a reason. I still hurt, but I am healing and will be better and more whole than I ever have when I’ve gotten through this. Maybe I can finally be in a real relationship someday, with both myself and someone who adds to me and not takes away from me.
Kookie, I was the exact same way.. halfhearted and just doing the grunt work in the relationship but not feeling it, until she said goodbye and then I was heartbroken and thought the world was going to end. I would’ve done anything to get her back – and when I was in it I was constantly wondering what the hell I was doing because after the first couple months it was obvious I wasn’t getting what I wanted from it lol. At least I spoke up and said I needed more – that shows I am learning from my experiences at least. But I was still EU to her the whole time, like I always am because of my personal issues, and she was EU to me as well because once her personal issues cropped up again they took her focus off of me and placed them on those things.
I have come to believe that people only have so much to give – no one is a bottomless well. For instance, I have alot of empathy, compassion, and a big heart especially towards women because I never had a female role model in my life growing up. I have a need to prove myself – and it makes me unavailable because I am not really in it just with them, I am working to redeem myself from imagined rejection and to be “good enough” to ghosts from my past. How can you be available to someone when you are living in the past, consciously or subconscouly???? I only have half a well to give lets say.. thats not enough for something real and lasting.
Likewise, my ex also was EU just like me, but for different reasons. She had pretty big family dynamic issues, little kids to worry about, her career that she values so much, overly dramatic and bitter single girlfriends.. all going back to one central issue just like mine though of feeling “not good enough” for ghosts from her past.
Some of her issues were dormant when we met, and I truly think she believed we were it and she was available for us to really be together (keep in mind I still wasn’t I was just fooling myself too), and she tried very hard to integrate me into her life quickly with her family, kids, and friends in an attempt to show them how great I was and how she could actually have a stable and rewarding relationship with a “good guy.” The thing was her family still didn’t accept me or her idea of her being “good enough” finally (I don’t think they would ever accept anyone and as far as I know she can never do right by them), and subsequently all her energy she had for me – that half a well she had left – went back into her personal issues. We were done, as sad as I am to say it and as much as it still hurts to think about we never had a chance.
If I would’ve not been EU from my issues, or if she figured out how to put her issues to bed so she could be available – it wouldnt have mattered because BOTH people need to be 100% open, available, and “good enough” AS IS in order to have something real and lasting. She truly thought she was ready and that I could help fix things with her family and life.. I thought banking on her and putting myself all into it would redeem me from my past and I would have her undying love forever… the truth is we were both only giving half of us though because our other halves were preoccuppied. Its not sustainable.. if anything comes up the tenuous balance will be broken and it will all come crashing down – listen to me I lived it :).
Be whole, invest in you first – thats the biggest thing I have learned here, and one of the most important lessons in life I have learned – if you want to really truly be in love someday with the “right” one. Its ok if you only have half a well to give it really is hell I’ve done it all my life and made alot of people really happy for a time – but it won’t last unless that other half of the well you aren’t giving is because its tied up in YOU.
/Hugs to all of you… you are all good enough, even though I know it hurts sometimes.
Bob72,
Thanks so much; i totally needed to hear that too! My exBF gave me crumbs, always running back to his ex or cozying up with her or his other ‘female friends/ fan club’ and I was on constant eggshells if he was going to break up. After he did break up with me, he kept calling/ emailing/ texting till we actually hooked up again (terrible I know) and he ran to his ex’s house for a long weekend. At that point I said “no more”. So almost 4 weeks NC so far. And he has not run after me. You are so right but it hurts so much.
Very Perceptive Bob72 🙂
MSA..
I ended an online fantasy that lasted 2.5 yrs! He lives in the UK and I in the US. He showed me so many signs.red flags that I chose to bleach white!
He told me we could stay friends then he began seeing someone serious and it ended badly. I am grateful for the experience but anything ONLINE is NOT real…It takes very little effort to keep that going and after much heartache I realize this now.
Tired I am so full of admiration for you. Please don’t take this the wrong way but I know you have found NC harder than some. This stage is all part of the process but please please truest me and stick with it. I am now three months Nc and omigod it is all sooo much easier. I used to think of ex narc 24/7. Seriously. No exaggeration. Couldn’t even get round the supermarket without his “shadow” Now I maybe think of him once or twice a day. Oh that feels so much better Tired and yes, you can have this too.
I don’t have a lot of money and so it’s not that easy but when I feel I have to fill time I clean the house or exercise or talk to a friend. I have taken up a new hobby. I know you have your guitar. I joined a choir and that is great. Very challenging for me as am used to singing solo. All these things will help and you have to tell yourself you are doing just great. So so proud of you Tired.
This made me laugh out loud on the bus:
“…but more importantly, you don’t subject you to living the life of an inadequate performing seal.”
And this is very true:
“…you are the person in your life that you cannot please..”
I am forever worried I’m getting on other people’s nerves and not pleasing others. I always feel like an inadequate performing seal. Best description of how I feel about myself!!!
Problem is, I get on my own nerves and I am always displeased with myself in one way or another. I project this on my friends and partners, leaving me depressed.
In friendships, I worry I am annoying and go to great lengths to prove I am a wonderful friend.
In romantic relationships, this translates to performing for unavailable men, hoping one of them will eventually show me I am wrong about myself. A majority of these men are assclowns and/or the emotionally unavailable, leading to further disappointment in myself and damage.
I get it. I need to start being pleased with myself and accept myself; both my faults and great qualities. No one is perfect, not everyone can like me and it’s not my job to please the entire human population on Earth. It’s time to believe I am nice and worthy. I need to stop performing for others in hope of approval and just be happy with myself.
All of us with this issue need to do this! It is obvious and clear as day, yes?
I KNOW this, as my logical mind has long been on the drawn out program of getting better.
How does one get the emotional mind to get with the program too? It is taking very, very long!!! I guess a lot of self-talk when times get tough and just keep on keeping on down this path of finally getting some self-esteem.
Any tips? I’d love to hear some!
Good luck to everyone xox
@ getting there slowly,
What about meditation and self-affirmations? That helps a lot.
I get some of what you are saying. I have moved a lot in life so having long term face-to-face friends has never been my luck; this last move was 3.5 years ago and I am finally now, seeing to settle in with a couple good female freinds.
It takes time to show people who you are, and have them show you, who they are. Stick with it and relax…or analyze why you are not relaxed. Are the people who you are freinds with really freinds? Can you trust them?
I still sometimes get surprised when people show that they really like me, even when I am being low key. I am very vivacious but for me, the real test is when I am just silent, hanging out with friends, and they can make me feel accepted and wanted for just being there. It takes a bit to get there. Hang on:)
Thank you victorious
I have found it hard and i realise i cant do the friend thing , because he wasnt a good friend . I laugh at how when i was wed i never wanted a mobile phone it was the down fall of me . I lived quite content in my little world and bang mobile phone and attention addiction started . But i am okay at staying in and vegging out . I started private lessons on top of my course wk. now when im gonna get bored ill get busy on guitar . Do you know what made me walk away and quit Here . It was there as a nagging voice in my head
. What ever happens ill be okay but im never gonna let anyone intimerdate or bully or duvk me in to userdom again . Im going to be what i want to be and if thats being a guitar playing , 43 yr old so be it . Plus ive switched back on go my family around me instead of being in la la land and stood up gor myself in some stand offs at wk and when out . I feel a little ray of hope ignite , the bucket of arsehole memories some days tries to douche it but im learning to fight ig off 🙂 xx i tske hope from you victorious , ps you kick arse ! Lolx
Dear Mary,
I think people cross our path for a reason. I think you do not love your husband anymore and the MM part in your life was to let you accept and acknowledge that your marriage wasn’t making you happy. I don’t think you are a bad person and do not judge you, and you shouldn’t do that to yourself either, just see the situation as a bridge to a happier life maybe alone or with someone else, but do not look back at a marriage that didn’t work anymore. That’s why you searched for that missing piece. Now it’s time to just stay strong and honest to yourself. This MM obviously isn’t happy either but maybe won’t have the guts to face his reality, very few people do. Maybe he is in live but not brave enough to say good bye. Best wishes to you 🙂 I’ve been in your shoes!
Thank you Natalie for enlightening me in a way that I have never been before. I’m 42 years old and have finally learned (better late then never) that I WILL NOT settle for crumbs anymore. I recently broke it off after a year with an extreme EU who reeled me in fast and furious in the beginning only to blow cold towards the end. He “disappeared” two months into our relationship and again this past December when I said finally said goodbye. Your NC rule is brilliant and I’m finally following it and understanding why it is necessary and vital. My EU man tried calling and texting me even after I broke it off and I simply replied, “There is nothing to talk about. It’s over.” I sometimes feel lonely, sad, and angry but also feel a weight of uncertainty and doubt has been lifted.I’m not bitter or resentful but eager to make up for the lost time of neglecting my wants, desires and needs.I actually am less self loathing and like myself instead of picking myself apart and questioning my every little action and how it affected him. I’m by no means ready to date but while out for a work engagement, an attractive man chatted me up for nearly a half hour. He must have sensed my enjoyment in life and in myself–I’m not hiding behind the scared and fearful shell of a woman terrified of losing a relationship that never really was. Better equipped to nip things in the bud as soon as red flag is raised instead of making excuses. My best to all of you from the Windy (and very cold) City of Chicago! Thanks again Natalie (purchased your book on Amazon–very helpful and therapeutic!!)
Well that makes two people from Chicago here lol… Good for you, especially that you ditched the bitterness and resentment – you are on the right path for sure now. Funny how people sense that isn’t it?? Negative attracts negative and positive attracts positive.. just wierd but oh so true.
Don’t worry, supposed to warm up for the weekend lol.
Hi bob72–fellow Chicagoan, thank you for your message and also for your insights. I hope you’re hanging in there, too. Some days are better than others but my insides are no longer on edge or screaming “what are you doing?” The quieting of my gut intuition has brought about peace but the sadness of not talking to someone I communicated with everyday is still tugging at my heart. Time heals….you take care
So–for those of you more enlightened than me 🙂
How do you know when you’re getting crumbs and when you’re getting a loaf?
I suppose it should be evident. I’m currently working through my boundaries and values on the self-esteem course (amazing, btw), and I’m guessing that will probably help. But sometimes I wonder if my expectations are too high? For instance, in a committed, long-standing relationship I expect:
1) Regular communication. Initiating phone calls, at least once a week.
2) Quality time. Spending time together during the week (not just a couple of hours on the weekend, if we live in the same town)
3) Affection. Physical and verbal. I’m not talking about flattery, but saying and doing things to encourage and support the other person and to let them know that you care about them.
4) Getting to know the other person. Conversation that moves beyone the superficial. Trying to get to know the person on a deeper level. Asking questions about the other’s hopes, dreams, and plans for the future.
Are these reasonable or unreasonable expectations? Is anything less than this crumbs?
@Laurie,
I am by no means the expert on what defines crumbs and reading your list of expectations reminded me of the fear I felt even when trying to ask for these BASIC expectations in a normal relationship. Your list is ground zero basic in my view. I’m a little puzzled by him intiating a call ONCE A WEEK…are we to assume that you are initiating the rest of the calls? If so, the communication effort is lopsided. Also, you don’t see him during the week. Where is he when he is not with you? AND then only a couple of hours on the weekend…huh? It sounds like he is dictating the pace of the relationship, which, in my humble opinion is a lousy attempt at making it work on his part. I went through the exact same situation and really, it all came down to CRUMBS, nothing more. But most importantly, you’ll know it’s crumbs when your GUT screams at you for treating yourself LESS THAN by allowing the BS.
Laurie,
You’re getting crumbs!
!. In a committed relationship, I would expect to be speaking with that person daily. Phone calls should go both ways.
2.As you live close to one another, I would think you would be seeing one another 3-4 times a week.
3. There should be mutual love, care and respect.
4. Yes. You should be sharing your dreams and hopes with this person.
What exactly are you getting out of this? It sounds more like a superficial friendship, other than a relationship. When you do see one another, is it simply for a hook up?
Laurie, I would reassess this relationship, as it sounds very empty, and unfulfilling.
Thanks Ladies!
Thankfully, I’m describing my EX husband and EX fiancé. I just want to know moving forward what my expectations should be. I seem to get involved with people who think this behavior is normal after a period of blowing very hot for several months; I’m just trying to figure out if this is normal behavior or if I have a toxic type that I need to be aware of. Thankfully these guys had much bigger problems which I couldn’t ignore (although it took me some time!) I think I still have some lingering doubts that perhaps my basic expectations are too high and I’m never going to find anyone who can meet them. I really, really appreciate your insights!
Laurie,
Expectations too high??? They are what will make you happy and feel engaged in a relationship. So they aren’t too high. It’s what you need, so they aren’t too high. I had an ex AC that I spent 5 years with get back in contact with me about 3-4 months ago. I have been out of the relationship 4 years. He had his list of what he wanted, and he was future forwarding me. I sat down and wrote him a list, of what I needed and what was not acceptable from our last relationship. I have not heard from him since. And it’s ok. Example I lived in his place, though I paid half the utilities and we couldn’t have the heat on at night. And yes, we lived in Chicago, and it gets mighty cold there at night. I said I will never sleep without heat again. And there were other things on my list very similar. It’s not that we couldn’t afford the heat we lived in a $500,000 one bedroom condo. Just tells you how controlling he was. No more crumbs for me. The next guy will have similar beliefs, values, goals as me – that will be the whole loaf. Not me trying to convince someone that what I think has value too.
This was me! Always auditioning. Blowing u the crumbs to meaning something, although I knew better! I had the right man who treated me as I should be treated, so I figured I could deal with this other mans horse @”$&!! It only hurt me. I’m sure he doesn’t give it a second thought. He is now with someone else, in married with baby. I do wonder how he could have ever let me go. I was so everything to him. I realize I am in a better place without him. It still baffles me though. If I’d stuck to my instincts I’d have lost his highness much sooner and kept my self esteem in tact, since I didn’t, I have had a rough road back, it’s been 2 and 1/2 years. He never deserved me. By the way, he wrote me when his girlfriend was 8 mo. pregnant, he said he missed me and asked me if I still missed him. I never answered. Creep.
@Jessie
Sometimes these scenerios are soo similar it’s scarey!! My exAC was married/seperated, got a girl pregnant, when she was 8 mos, he was calling the wife/exwife (?? whatever she was)wanting her back, unfortunately the weekend he was calling her she died in a car crash. That was almost 20 yrs ago – he’s still EU/AC and uses this story as his “One Time In Band” feel sorry for him story. Sad that he has no relationship with his son that he help create!! Geez – how many red flags did I miss??? LOL
Oh Nat. This hit home so much. Even though it’s been three years since I last acted with so little self-love/such non-existent boundaaries, it made me remember how it feels to hurt yourself while dreaming for love from someone that’ll never happen!
You – and yo0ur blog – still make me work on ME, and how greatful I am to you for it. Learning how to love myself. respect myself and trust myself has had me making choices that keep me away from the ‘crumbs-and-then-rejection’ scenarios I repeatedly used to enter into.
Thank you Nat.
And may every woman who reads here, learn that life doesn’t have to hurt once you stop doing things that hurt yourself:)
@Marie83
You get over the fear of being alone by…being alone! Here’s the thing: so many women are SO desperate to NOT be alone that we settle for so much bullshit. At the end of the day you need to ask is being alone REALLY going to be worse then this bullshit situation? Because the reality is a lot of us are desperately clinging to mere crumbs. So being in a state where you’re practically salivating for those crumbs is better then being alone? In your company? With you? I mean how horrible a person are you that not even YOU want to be with yourself?! Ladies, being alone is what YOU make it! If you tell yourself “this is torture” then yes, you’ll hate it. However if you tell yourself “this is going to be ok. I’ll make ME priority #1, I’ll be kind to me, surround myself with goodness, figure myself out, learn to enjoy my own company and independent life and when someone comes along great! If they don’t come along any time soon then at least I’ve learned to be happy as an independent human being!”. There’s going to come a time in life when you’re going to have o deal with being alone (unless you’re ok settling until the end of time). Learn to be a happy single person now, spend some time with YOU and you’ll see, you’re not all that bad 🙂 nothing is more unattractive then desperation and depending on external things to function!
One of biggest mistakes that we often make is either trying to love someone else when we don’t even love ourselves, or trying to get love from someone who does not love his or herself.
“I do not trust people who don’t love themselves and yet tell me: ‘I love you.’ There is an African saying which is: “Be careful when a naked person offers you a shirt.” Maya Angelou
@Gina: I agree about this being a huge mistake! If we don’t love ourselves first, we’re likely to be commiserating with people who don’t love themselves either. “Birds of a feather flock together” has never been so true. Also, if we’re loving someone who can’t love themselves either, it’s really hard to watch them hate themselves even when you tell them otherwise and at some point you have to let them figure themselves out!
Feeling like an underperforming trained seal is EXACTLY how I felt at the end! On our last date, I caught myself in mid-“act”–acting happy, animated, and really working it. Then suddenly, blammo, I was hit with the following thought like a bolt from the blue — “Why the heck am I working so hard? What am I doing with this schlub?” It was as if the scales had fallen from my eyes and I could see.
I am taking some time off for good behavior. I am really starting to like the effects of a solid dose of self care. I’m noticing that I feel so much better than I have in quite awhile, and I realize that my own emotional unavailability led me into this most recent relationship.
Even this last week, I have “divorced” 2 male friends. One in particular had such toxic behavior toward women in general that I had distanced myself from him years ago. Now, I feel as if I am allergic to that breed of narcissistic AC. I had such a visceral reaction of abject distaste when I last heard from him. I can’t even imagine subjecting myself to that kind of behavior anymore. I’m learning that as I am taking good care of myself, any man who comes into the picture has some serious competition for my affections — because now he has to compete with me! I do good things for myself and I like the way I feel better and better each day. I really want to end this pattern of self-fulfilling prophecy by not hitching my wagon to another unavailable person. Everything I read on this site is such excellent reinforcement.
mary
dafne has,a point . it is for a reason my involvement was to give me strength to leave a bullying .Not avery violent one but my husband admitted he mentalky bullied me . but like you i put all my hopes onto mm and made him into somthing he was not . he had his own unhappiness i guess . in end he met and found someone who gave him the strength to leave it wasnt me .he just fell for someone eles . he should have left and i think he planned to but backed out . hence his hot blowing on me .he was scared . but it all turn out how he wanted.i only hope that now he is with who he truly wants to be that he stays faithful and no more people get hurt.
@ dancingqueen
Thanks for your message!
Quoting you: “…I still sometimes get surprised when people show that they really like me, even when I am being low key. I am very vivacious but for me, the real test is when I am just silent, hanging out with friends..”
I totally relate to this! I always find it hard to sit silently and feel accepted.
Do you also feel if they like you, they must not be seeing the real you? And that it is only a matter of time before you’re uncovered?
I am analysing why I am not relaxed – it is soooo much work! I find it hard. I am seeing a therapist, and she is great. I definitely find myself avoiding my “homework” (which includes relaxation/mediatation and self-affirmation!!!).
It is a massive change isn’t it? So I guess it simply is going to take a lot of work and time for the emotional mind to catch up. I also think these issues are things we learn to manage.
So really, these issues have made us the great people we are – so as long as we learn to love ourselves, and how to manage these thoughts and feelings, they are not issues, rather traits that make us who we are 🙂
@Getsmartyr
I have taken last year, and decided again this year off for “good behaviour”.
It’ll be the best thing I’ve done! Only after last year have I felt a shift in my taste in friends and men – and more importantly the way I view myself.
@dancingqueen
Also, I also relate to moving a lot and not having luck with face-to-face friends. I’ve lived in my current city for the past three years, and finally have started to settle in.
However, I may need to move again in 18 months or so.
Fingers crossed i don’t have to! Moving can be so disruptive, can’t it?
Sunyata,
This comes late as I just saw what you wrote. But, I have to ask WHY would he remain in your contact book. Don’t change his name, change him OUT.
oh HELL naw! I’m not going to accidentally pick up if he rings, nope nopity nope nope unh-uh not no way not no how. I know me, and I know my weakness is a tendency to forget if enough time has passed and put the rose-colored glasses back on again.
I don’t pretend like I don’t have weaknesses anymore and I look out for for myself much better now 😀
MSA,
I learned a valuable lesson from my fantasy relationship so I am only sorry for the time I wasted on it. I uprooted my life about 12 yrs ago for someone i met online and we lasted 5 months. Point is I would never “MOVE” for some guy again!
I had to be real with myself.
Online chemistry is smoke and mirrors..in love with each others fantasy person.
The only way to get to know someone is to meet them and spend time with them in REAL time.
I have stopped my self destructive behavior but it took me about 1 year to recover from the fantasy I created online.
I agree. My guy was from a dating site. When i met him, I was already emotionally invested, and the reality, didn’t match. But I went ahead with the move any way, thank god, I had a good job. Because I got dumped on the end of his driveway the day he picked me up moved me out, over 1000 miles, because he decided on our drive that things weren’t going to work, I was to move in with him. I survived, and he haunted me for 8 months, apologizing, future faking, blowing hot and cold. It wasn’t until I went NC have I felt any peace. Now he just scares me, and I may have to move again, back home because he stalks me. I have no feelings at all for him, and I wish he would find someone else and leave me alone. I have learned so much about me on this site. And I know today, I am enough, and I’m not going to be what some guy wants me to be, just to be needed and to keep them around. I want someone who accepts me as I am. And I accept me as I am today. No more crumbs! I want the whole loaf!!
Misty..I’m healing from a fantasy relationship i had online with someone i broke up with last year..Whilst i did meet her twice, it was certainly a crumb filled relationship given we never knew when we’d get to see eachother. I feel for you because i know exactly how painfull breaking up from a fantasy relationship can be. The thing i fear now is that no woman can live up to the fantasy i have in my mind about this woman. I have to let that die its slow death before i can move on, and im certainly in no hurry to do that….Online relationshps..NEVER AGAIN.
@Frank,
“The thing i fear now is that no woman can live up to the fantasy i have in my mind about this woman. I have to let that die its slow death before i can move on”
Word!!! I think that’s the whole issue of LDRs, no one can live up to that fantasy, not even the person him/herself. Thanks for the a-ha moment you just gave me. I did die a little inside at the realization of it, but I think I needed it. My problem is we’re still in contact, so part of me doesn’t want to let go yet. I still struggle with the “maybe”s and little glimpses of hope that it could be real, or at least the different real-life persons that we are will still feel the same as the online versions. My mind has the needed awareness, but I think my heart is still not catching up with reality. Seems it’s a very tough road I have ahead.
Misty, we lasted 2.5 years, so I think it will take me way more than a year to get over the fantasy. I feel like I’m wearing a one-eyed 3D glass. It’s hazy, and I’m not liking the part that is true about it, still stumbling at the different vision, but hanging on to the fake 3D eye sometimes.
Gosh I needed this today!! My ex (father of our 3 year old..off and on for 4 years) got pissed off at me last week because of how he punished our son, walked out and haven’t heard from him since. I have a feeling that he has another girl already.
I was sitting here feeling like crap thinking about how I wasn’t good enough for him to treat good, but knowing how he loves the chase, I’m sure he is foo-fooing this new girl with everything that he stopped giving me once he ‘had’ me. I’m pissed at myself for feeling rejected by this asshat that doesn’t deserve me feeling that way towards him at all!!
I KNOW i deserve more, my kids deserve more, but I still have this rejection! UGH. I don’t ever call or text him in any way. NEVER when we are split up. But I want off of this emotional friggin rollercoaster!!
Dawn,
Being passive (feeling you can’t phone) is not good. It hands over all the power to him, he gets to pick you up and put you down as and when it suits him without repercussions. I did just that with the MM, its classic FB behaviour. Eventually i got mad and phoned him, told him what i thought and was quite rude. Just as i knew he would, he scarpered. I know that natalie recommends just going NC but i do feel better that it ended this way. I am glad I gave him a few uncomfortable moments and also I know theres no way he’ll be back. Anyway back to you, if you need to set down rules for ge behaves towards your child you tell him! It is not on to do a disappearing act on a child, thats emotional abusive.
I chose to be involved with a man who didn’t reciprocate. He told me on many occasions that he could not give me what I wanted. But of course I stayed all the while hoping… Now 15 yrs. later here I am, looking at who I am and why I settled for the crumbs and went back for even more crumbs. He of course said he enjoyed the friendship. His wording was actually incorrect and in the guise of something else. What he really meant was he enjoyed the sex. I’m sure he did enjoy the friendship to some degree, albeit it was mainly a form of entertainment in the sense of reflecting how great he thinks he is. As I write this my gut wrenches and my heart is ripped apart. I gave and gave to him until I have nothing more left to give. He was my mission in life, a reason to go on, because I felt there was nothing else beyond that. Years wasted that I could have been productive and reaped the rewards of something valuable. He used me and now I am just an old used up woman. I have to sort all of this out and figure out why I would let someone like him degrade, disrespect and even endanger my physical and emotional well-being. Some answers are apparent, still getting down to the deep dirty and ugly nitty-gritty is so painful. I was his to do with whatever he pleased and at any cost. I hurt so much….
Hopeful-
I know you may not see it now, but those 15 years were neither unproductive nor wasted. They were packed with good moments and bad. You loved, you gave, you felt. You’ll take away a rich experience that may help other women. That kind of wisdom is the satisfying return you get as you age (I am 65).
I haven’t posted in a while and the crumb theme trigged something. Although I was NC with the MM for a long time, he did leave his wife & file for divorce. We occassionally hang together (I have zero invested beyond that), but you know? It was crumbs before and it is crumbs now. He tries to be what he PERCEIVES is a good friend, but I can see, if they can’t give, THEY CAN’T GIVE. Dear posters: none of the girlfriends or wives got more than you. These men are limited, with no capacity. It is OUR job to accept that heaping loaves upon them is never going to get them to produce loaves themselves. I am learning to set absolute boundaries, give nothing, and just enjoy the few exchanges/laughs, AND THAT’S IT. Completely new for me.
I also see that “issues” and “baggage” really refers to the WAY a person handles him/her self–it isn’t the wife, the kids, or the finances-it’s the inability to deal with them.
I am on my way to a contented life, thanks to BR and all you posters…
I drove away from my Emotionally Unavailable man’s house this afternoon in tears. Since he ended things, he keeps telling me he wants to be friends. He tells me he loves me but isn’t in love with me. I want to be his friend but I know I still want something more.
I’ve left his house many times in tears, all because I couldn’t understand why he didn’t want me as anything more than friends, when I tried my best to be everything he could want. I’ve been settling for crumbs since things ended, and even while we were together. He was verbally abusive & threatened me, but I excused it as I know he has a lot of issues etc.
But todays tears were different. They were tears for myself, for what I’ve been doing to myself and for all the reasons that I allow myself to be treated as an option, or as bottom of the pile. I know this man isn’t worth my energy but I prefer to have these crumbs, this concoction of something in my head, then let myself feel rejected again. Stupid, I know.
I’m so tired of the same thing, again and again, same sh*t but different man. Yet I’m more afraid of trying things differently and I just don’t know where to begin or where to find the resilience.
Hi Lollie,
I am sorry to hear you are going through a rough time. The best place to start is by going NC, I recognise much of what you say about the tears being for yourself – I too cry mostly these days out of the shameful realisation that I gave my power away and in the process have rejected myself but with NC you will feel calmer and more in control
hi lollie, yep been there, done that. as marie83 pointed out, you need to go NC. i so understand you want to be friends, as not to lose him completely. i tried that for a month (FWB, no less UGH) when we were still spending 24/7 together (traveling and working). it was the biggest mistake i made. i could have saved myself a lot of rejection trauma if i had just walked the day he said he didn’t see/want a future with me.
i was so scared to let him go that i accepted any crumb i could get. the month after we officially broke up was the worst of all. i needed to grieve my (fantasy)relationship but i did not give myself a proper place to do it. i was looking for comfort at the very guy who rejected me. a sick and twisted scenario that did A LOT of damage.
for a month i held back the tears every night when he just turned his back to me after we had sex. i did not sleep, could barely eat, could barely function at all. anxiety through the roof. i so badly wanted him to validate me, show him i was worthy and he did not validate me and he did not want me.
i should have left the day we broke up because i would have left with my head held high knowing i had behaved decently in the ‘relationship’, that it was indeed HIM and NOT ME. no, i degraded myself by bargaining with this EUM who had never anything substantial to give me. his trophy loaves had long expired.
the only solution is to go NC, get yourself away from the source of your pain and not add new pain to the pile. it will get better. oh how i wish there were anti-assclown pills!
Lollie in the search engine top left you can look up Natalies posts about being friends with these sorts of men (and yours sounds a right sort!) and why IT IS STOOOOPID! I did it. I hold my hands up and admit it. It was agony. Absolute fucking agony. How are you going to feel when he tells you all about his lovely new girlfriend? Great eh? I think Grizelda once said to me soemthing along the lines of, “How is he going to explain you as his friend to his new girlfriend, Oh yes, Lollie, I used to date her but she didn’t really do it for me.” Seriously Lollie, don’t do it. NC is the only way to healing.
how are YOU doing these days, victorious?
Hi Natashya,
I am doing so much better. I still think of the horrid ex every day but not the constant stream of thoughts I had before. At one point I actually thoughht I was doomed to roam this earth thinking of this one man 24/7 for the rest of my life. Thankfully this is not the case. He hasn’t contact me for a couple of months and I am more than three months NC. I am doing loads of work on myself but there is still a lot to do.
I know I am not ready, willing or able to embark on another relationship still, and think I will wait until the horrid winter months are over at least until I consider doing anything more than casual flirting. I hope you are OK too. Big hugs and thanks for all your help along the way.
glad to hear, victorious! i am still not out of the emotional woods, but the day i decided that my ‘good guy’ EUM was actually an AC after all, i got angry. and i have been angry ever since. but i find it much easier to deal with the anger than the sadness and obsession. i am making progress. i see him for who he was: a future faker who strung me along while he had no intention of building a future with me. i have been NC for 9 weeks now and am doing better. big hugs and thanks to you too!!
Lollie,
Go NC, for your own sanity. How can you be friends with him? I can’t go backwards from lover to friend. It just doesn’t work for me. My ex AC, would tell me about all his ex’s and I would say, ” why would I care to know about this?” they were all psychos. Red flag!!! Why didn’t he look at what he contributed int he relationship and make some changes in himself? I think I thought I was going to be different. I am sure I have been added to his list of “psychos” that he talks about. He has called me that to my face, when angry about who knows what.
YOU tried to be everything he wants. Go NC and spend the time figuring out what you want, in a man. And know that you are enough just the way you are.
yes i have a circle of friends and i go away weekends. as soon as i knew about ow i knew what was coming so i walked and signed up for for courses etc .he ended it many years,ago as he was about to get marriex and i went through hell i prepared signed up to s councellor weekly now as i get over it every two weeks . i go there and vent and say stuff that other wise would go round and round in my head .but get this the urge to analise every thing time and time again is going !!!! so im healing slowly .i cant stop the odd thought now and then like if they go shopping or what they doing etc etc but thats fading as,well as i except it x
Oh, the crumbs I subsisted on for far too long. I knew I wasn’t getting loaves, more like croutons. Since that’s all these EUM men could offer me I just accepted it. Now I’m a meat and potatoes girl. (-:
I was so afraid to ask or expect more on the outset. The delusion was that with more time and emotional closeness that the crumbs would gradually increase. I didn’t want to rock the boat w/ needs.
But then the crumbs become more minuscule…and I leave angry, disappointed and hungry. Only to repeat the same crumb-accepting pattern again. Most of my relationships don’t last longer than 90 days. I’ve got little to show for it too. Just this unsatisfied, gnawing hunger I abate by going through long periods (years) of being single (happily in some cases/unhappily in others).
What Natalie has taught me these last 6 months (wish I had found her in 2005) is NOT to accept these crumbs from the very beginning and NOT to feel bad about having needs and standards. I think I was so afraid of being high-maintenance, which I’m anything but, that I became no-maintenance (meaning I was like a Craig’s List ad for EUM men).
Now I turn my nose up at crumbs. Ended it over the holidays with an otherwise lovely man except for a MAJOR DEALBREAKER + CRUMB = sayonara! He was head and shoulders above the last few years of dating EUM/AC men but when I saw he was satisfied with a particular offering of crumb on a silver plate, I booked. Pre-BR me would’ve stayed a while longer, put on my hard hat and kept digging at it but now I’m free, single and proud that I didn’t go on a crumb-diet. When they don’t care about the less than minimum is what they’re offering and even act like to expect more from them is outrageous, BIG RED FLAG. They get very stupid and selfish when it’s convenient to them — lesson I learned from last year’s separated EUM.
As to the comments about being single. I’ve lost girlfriends from being single. They hate that I’m not willing to “do anything and everything” to snag a man. They resent my singleness and even treat me like “a broken woman.” Over time, I learned that I reflect their own insecurities because they are willing to morph and do anything and everything…even if it means no longer being my friend. That’s probably been the hardest part these last few years and yeah, asking them for advice is the anti-thesis of Natalie’s good sense.
I actually had one girlfriend (who acts like a completely different person around her bf) tell me to hold onto an obvious AC like grim death. When women can support each other is when we’re less likely to be in crumb-filled relationships because our support group is doing that: supporting us — single or not.
“I didn’t want to rock the boat w/ needs…I think I was so afraid of being high-maintenance, which I’m anything but, that I became no-maintenance (meaning I was like a Craig’s List ad for EUM men).”
OH MY. that is me… always did pride myself on being low-maintenance. absolutely confronting and crazy.
Frank:
Thanks for your input on the fantasy relationship. I guess when I realized i did not want the upgrade from fantasy gf to fantasy friend..I knew when this fantasy ended it would be painful but I am still reeling from it and take it day by day. You are right you build up this illusion of this person and yet nobody can compare? I know how you feel. This UK guy is now in a real relationship but they broke up twice in 6 mos..I feel he hangs on to his dream girl as well.
MSA>>>
I became codependent ..thought I could not function without him..that was FEAR not LOVE..
I became infatuated with my “illusion” of him. Fear and drama= poor relationships. I had to go NO contact finally..Have you thought about it? It helps and with time the pain subsides! It was 2.5 yrs for me too but if I still was in contact with him he would be reeling me back into the chaos..I feel more at peace now…its a daily struggle but I had to take control and move out of LA LA LAND>>>>:)
WOW!!!!! What an eye opener….Like so many others I gave and gave and gave some more and received barely crumbs in return. Hoping and wishing that things would change, that he would give me some slices. Didn’t happen. I became so fed up with his bs that in the middle of an NFL playoff game that he paid for I walked out of the stadium telling myself that enough is enough. Left him sitting there in the 3rd quarter by his unavailable self. Hoepfully, he was able to call a cab to get a ride home. I don’t know hwat happened, but something hit me and said”that’s it enough is enough.” On that day I began the closure process on those crumbs…
Seeking solace from unspeakable grief, trying to find wisdom on the Internet n sm way to dull the pain. This post reads like its written for me. Trouble is I fell in love so hard, so madly and so late in life that taking time apart (at his suggestion) has sapped every ounce of will, strength n happiness tht I have. I can see the writing on the wall, I read this site daily to wake up in the real world n smash my delusions….but…
And this being ‘forbidden’ love, I have no friends I can confide in, no one to have vented with, which made it worse, I guess.
Thank you, Natalie. This post read like you wrote it for me.
I found your website randomly over a week ago and have read a few posts. This is the first time I decided to comment and I just have to say this really relates to what I’m going through right now. I had someone who I put up with as just a hookup but he led me on to believe that he would want something serious but needed time. Obviously it didn’t work out and communication stopped but recently a few weeks ago after not speaking for 4 months he reached out to me. Again he repeats the same actions has last time except I was not dumb enough to not give him what he wanted. I thought it was me and actually texted him today asking if he would like to have dinner with me. Of course I know he did see my text but he ignored it so I feel sad and angry because of the rejection. After reading this I do realize I am selling myself short and that he isn’t enough for me. Thank you I will continue going to your site for guidance & support. The post are truly helpful
Jennifer
You are worth 10,000 times what this douche has to offer.
I agree! His loss!
:] thank you as well!
thank you very much miskwa :] I know this now just wish I realized sooner!
There also comes a point when you have to ask why crumbs are enough for you in the first place. Why is this an uncomfortable comfortable for you? Why does this feel like ‘home’? Who are you really trying to be enough for?
This hit me between the eyes!!! When unhealthy feels normal. It feels like “Home”, who am I trying to be enough for? BINGO!!! My dad. I was the first child out of 7, and it was really important to have a son as the first born in my family. I heard it over and over, from my parents and my grandparents, I was a disappointment from birth. It was like I was ignored because I was a girl, and my brother, became the prince of the family. Even when I was making more money than my father and my brothers, no one ever asked me about my job. When I went back to school, got my bachelor’s and master’s, and told my dad about it, he was dying, I still didn’t get any acknowledgement. So boy do I know where my need to be whatever someone wants to get some approval, acknowledgement, attention comes from. Well you know, screw that! So my first EUM was my father, and I continued to seek them out all my life, no wonder it feels comfortable, like home. But so so sick! No wonder my mom never remarried. Anyone else relate?
Oh yes Emerldeyes. Eldest of five and my father so wanted a son. In fact, he called me son until I got to Kindergarten and my mother made him stop. Same deal with my siblings as well. I went the school route, got a job, and my drug addicted sister got the support. Figure that! But like Nat’s says in her next post, it’s time to let that childhood baggage go. Good luck to you.
Emerldeyes,
I relate too. I´m an only child and apparently no one had a problem with me being a girl but my father is a complete EUM. I´ve lived all my life with the threat of him abandoning me, sometimes emotionally, other times physically. If he abandoned me emotionally, he´d press the reset button after a while and made me feel guilty for being hurt.
Some years ago, I was also physically abandoned by him when he went to live abroad with his girlfriend(this at a time when my kids were little, I was getting a divorce and my maternal grandmother was dying). Of course, he glossed over his absence stating that nowadays it is sooo easy to maintain relationships through emails and skyping.
Talk about crumbs!
So yes, after all this ACs did feel natural to me. But no longer! Lets just throw our paternal crumbs in the toilet, my dears. Better things await us.
Help: ok so I have recently ventured into the world of online dating. I met this guy online who was seemingly interested in me im 23 hes 34 all of my relationship experience has been pretty awful to say the least. so im naturally defensive but somehow this guy convinced me to meet him. as the days went by he was more and more insistant on things calling me beautiful picturing us together calling me pet names pet and all *gag* it was so strange to me how he put me on a pedestal before even meeting me. Future Faking came to mind but i was curious so i met him. first of all he did not tell me he had something wrong with his eye and u couldnt quite make it out on his pics . lol Apparently he sufferd some injury 6 years ago he didnt discolse until i got there. but everything else was fine picked me up we ate me being me i tried to keep it casual but he turned on the personality and kissed me. ffwd we slept together that night multiple times at his place everything seemed perfect like all i had to do was move in … the next morning we ended up sleeping in a little late cuz we were up all night talking which he seemed to be a littled peeved about cause he claimed he had all this stuff to do which i had no idea beacause he offered for me to spend the weekend ?! Future Faking? anyways i was getting subtle hints like he wanted me to go so i showered and got ready.. he dropped me off hugged and gave me a peck. his body language was somewhat distant and i picked up on it instantly my suspisions got the best of me and i casually text him a small joke a little while later. no response. i assumed he was busy and let a few hours go by but in the back of my head im like he usually blows my phone up what the hell?! so i got nosey when on facebook and noticed he posted a few times throughout the day! Red flag! my minf started to race i got upset and called no answer basically sent a text for him to keep it real . this is something hes done on several occasions when he thought i was ignoring him so i thought i had a right to do it to . he finally sent me a text saying he was asleep and his car died?! thats it no Apology of explanation like i had recieved in the past i responded and got nothing?! that was lastnight and now im pissed
RM
Chalk it up to experience and write it off. If he comes back, it will just be for more of the same. Don,t get into the infinity loop of trying to squeeze a relationship out of the unwilling or incapable. It doesn’t sound as if you even like him, you,re just pissed that he,s cooled off. Let it go and don,t spend weeks or months or even years in this casual sex (sorry) and texting nonsense.
Sure, there are tricks and games you can play but they only extend the time wasting. You can,t trick and game play someone into being a decent, responsible person (responsible people don,t future fake). all you can do is game play each other for an extended period of time before you end the relationship anyway. Might as well just finish it now and spare yourself the drama and possibly the therapy bills.
And by finish, i mean don,t initiate any more contact and only respond once to his. say, “thanks, but I decided this doesn’t work for me,” then ignore.
Remember, you don,t know him, you don,t even like him much and you don,t love him.
RM,
I’m sorry you have experienced this situation. I’d like to recommend reading Natalie’s posts about dating. Her suggestions have been extremely useful to me. I think you have experienced the hot and cold phenomenon. I’ve been online dating for 8 months, after two years off and a steady BR diet. I’ve seen what you describe a few times. When I declined their offers on the second or third date which would lead to the opportunity for sex, ie. going to their house, they promptly went cold. I echo what Grace suggested. Write this guy off and fast. In addition to running hot and cold, his behavior is ambiguous and contradictory. For example, he is peeved about sleeping in because he has a ton to do. Then, he goes to sleep and his car dies? I’d consider blocking him both on your phone and the dating site and not responding. Also be sure to check out Nat’s posts. They’ve been my lifeline in the dating world.
RM, I hate to be so blunt but he played you. He did the necessary preliminaries to get you to have sex – multiple times no less – and then wanted you GONE because he got what he wanted and had no further plans for you. You were not a human being with feelings. You were a lay. He was done and gone as soon as he had you. End of. Classic user. He previously contacted you when you seemed MIA because he knew had his hook in you and would become alarmed that maybe you had slipped it before he could reel you in. He always planned to release you as soon as he had you in hand. Please, just learn from this and move on. He is not worth a second of thought – beyond applying the knowledge you gained from this experience with an AC. He used you and he’ll use the next and next. Nothing to do with you. This is who he is. It can happen as easily with someone you meet in real life as online. You need to do the work to learn how to avoid falling for BS – your own, too… BTW, I would not bet against him chancing his arm again when he feels like using someone since you were game before. YOU need to decide that whatever flattering fantasy BS he sends your way will not be met with open arms or legs. As per NML, he is not that special and you are not that desperate!
Thank you so much for the responses i had a feeling in the pit of my stomach about this guy but I thought id keep an open mind. I am a little butthurt about it . the last thing he text me which was yesterday was Its not that i didnt like you it was too much of a good thing for me?!! And you out sexed me? it made no sense so u just said F you and deleted his number whyi didnt go with my first mind i have no idea
RM,
This guy is a dirt bag. He is a loser user. Forget you ever met him, except to use this a lesson to trust your gut. We all make mistakes, but as long as we learn from them we at least are moving forward. Flush and delete.
I have spent the past 4 ½ years wondering why I wasn’t good enough. With my ex constantly moving the goal posts. Even with counseling and writing on here, with the support of my friends and family I always went back. Regardless. No matter what he did, he always managed to worm his way back in. His words were empty, his actions proved this. Yet after breaking up with him for the final time, I am still affected by him, still wonder why I was never good enough, what I could have done to prove my worth. I have put up with all of the following and still somewhere deep down believe that I am the problem. I have taken him back, forgiven him, yet I am still the one that has to chase her tail and change everything to be with him. If it wasn’t for my friends and family I would not have found the strength to walk away. I have quit my job, set up my own company and am moving to a different country for a while at the end of the month in the hope of ‘finding myself again’. As much of a cliché as that might sound. He says that im not a proper woman because I don’t clean his house. That if I would just do the things he asked then he would give me things I want. Such as trust, commitment, love, affection – a future. Trust me, I am 28 this year and have been in this relationship since I was 23, don’t ever stand for second best, or build your hopes of happiness on your chances of fixing someone who is extremely damages. I hope in time I will get over this and heal, and make may for a loving relationship, but in the meantime I once and for all will work on loving myself, taking control of my life and restoring my self respect.
Repeatedly broke up with me (around 60 times in a 4 ½ year relationship)
Terrorised my family, told my mum to f**k off, walked into my house, threatened my parents
Stalked me, turned up at my family members and friends
Verbally abused me – slut, slag, worthless, told me to kill myself and do everyone a favour
Slept with three other women in the course of our relationship (including his ex)
Bit my nose
Kicked me
Slapped me repeatedly on the bum
Blew hot and cold constantly
Blamed me for everything
Didn’t support me through an abortion (in fact said that I should get over it as some women have them in their lunch hours)
Went on and on about how much of a shit girlfriend I am
Manipulated me
Warped my mind about sex (he always wanted me to sleep with other people)
Always said I want too much, am too needy
He is addicted to drugs
He is now in a large amount of debt, which is apparently my fault because I didn’t open his letters
Natalie, I know you will probably have wondered what happened to me. It is only now 4 1/2 years later after reaching rock bottom that I have found the strength to walk away and see a future without his influence or control.
Love and peace.
Cherry.
X
cherry
yay you left him!
Cherry
I remember your story. It was so sad.
I am so glad to hear you are leaving. It’s easy to criticise people who are in abusive relationships and don’t leave. Not so easy when you are in one. You be careful now, they say the most dangerous time is when you leave. Take good care of your safety. Dont tell him anything about your plans, no goodbyes.
You might want to contact your local domestic violence refuge to get advice about how to make your escape safely and peacefully.
All the best.
Hi Cherry, it’s good to hear from you and I think you have to continue to face forward, continue counselling and putting 100% into your own life, and accept the topline data:
Once you accept this information, you won’t devote anymore time wondering why you weren’t enough to change him and instead you make your present and future actions about this ‘man’s’ crumbs and behaviour and basically any other form of crumb in your life, not being enough for you because you’re going to be enough for you. When you regard and treat you with love, care, trust and respect, nobody can come along and package up shit and tell you that it’s gold, or that it is shit but it would be gold if you didn’t ‘make’ them be and do the shit that they were already being and doing.
Cherry, it doesn’t matter how long it took, YOU did it!
Wow Cherry,
I’m so sorry you’ve been dealing with this unbelievable b******. I also remember your story and have often wondered how you are doing. Reading your stories has always been seriously terrifying, and it is particulary upsetting to me, since I understand all too well what it is like to feel powerless to leave, even though you are absolutely NOT. I don’t know how long you two have been broken up this time. But I think it is wonderful that you are going to move to another country for awhile, to clear your head. Continue to seek out avenues of support – e.g., a church/synagogue/mosque, a self-help group, etc. This creep has no place in your life and we have seen he has no intention ever giving up. He is the Terminator. You have to be Sarah Connor. 🙂 Take care. And please stay with us here at BR.
Oh – I’m seeing this late, but I am totally moved by hearing that you have finally left, Cherry. Thank you for reminding me how much strength it takes to do you what you have just done. ((hugs))
Years ago my girlfriends held somewhat of an intervention and told me that the reason they didn’t like him was purely because I lost all self esteem when it came to him. They were right. I lost my confidence, my strength, my SELF. After reuniting, I am here again. This blog helps…I am lucky that my girlfriends have stayed with me…but I am too ashamed to let them know of this pain I am going through again.
What if I know my worth, and yet I keep running into these guys who are so into me, and then change their minds. And they know I’m great, I know I’m great but it never works out with any guy. And we are compatible, but I feel like I scare people away. And I’ve been told I make people feel really comfortable, but 20-something year old guys seem to fear comfort and girls with direction. Is it just me?
But again, sometimes I have accepted “crumbs” not because I feel like I deserve it, but because I guess I don’t necessarily feel like giving someone all of my time either. I like my space and my life. So should I not be dating? Am I considered unavailable because I choose to focus on myself mostly, but want companionship too? Anyone?
Thank you for another excellent article, Natalie. It (unfortunately) describes my last relationship and helps me to realise how to avoid repeating it in future. I was quite devastated when the relationship ended and I think some people can think that reaction is a reflection on the quality of the relationship. But I realise now that it is not – it was because I mistakenly put everything into the relationship and neglected the rest of my life – me, my friends, my family, my work, my health. I won’t be making that mistake again. A huge thank you Natalie – your blog has helped me learn many important lessons about myself and relationships and how to avoid repeating mistakes.
I broke NC after 2 weeks and a message that he was miserable since Ive been gone, that he misses me dearly and that he does love me….I responded that I didnt feel comfortable texting that kind of conversation. I agreed to meet but when I got there and he proceeded to talk about his job and all sorts of other things. I finally asked “what do you want?”, he said he didnt want me to disappear and just wanted to see me and sit and have coffee in the sunshine. I kinda lost it. I ended up getting very emotional and crying at this outdoor cafe. I felt like a complete idiot. He put his arm around me and told me not to cry and that he had never made me cry before (WHAT!!) When he asked me what I wanted I said ,”to be together and maybe adopt a child” (He doesnt have kids and I dont want to have anymore~my son is 16). He said,” Dont you think you are being a bit selfish?” I am so embarrased that I lost my composure like that, I know that I have to go back to NC so I can move on, but I feel like a complete fool at this point. pathetic.
Runnergirl is right, read the suck it and see post and you will read what you have just done. I think Nat says in that post something like, “You can put your hand back in the fire but trust me when I tell you it will still burn.” Of course I thought I could handle it. I couldn’t. I accepted his lame half ass offer of friendship and nearly caught fire in the process. He came up with all new kinds of nasty, just to show me who was really the boss. Now I have been NC for nearly 4 months and please believe me it DOES get easier. The first few weeks, months even, I thought of him 24/7. Now, maybe once or twice a day. I know that is still way too much and I hate that I even remember he exists, but it is so much better. I thought I would never get over this man, but I promise you, with NC you will get the distance you need to see things clearly and start your life free from this manipulative dipstick.
Ditto what Runner said. Sounds like you got a reminder of why you dropped this self-centred douche in the first place. Back in the saddle and onward.
Aw Leigh, don’t beat yourself up. Every time I broke NC because “he missed me”, it was the same scenario you described. He just wanted to chat, have a beer, get an ego stroke, and if it worked out, a shag. It’s okay. You won’t accept his crumbs and you don’t have to. Read my favorite Nat post…”Suck it and See” and hop back on the NC wagon. Trust me, I stuck my hand back in the fire so many times it is a wonder I can still type. I still have ten fingers, can type, and found some inner esteem thanks to Natalie. You can too. I know how it feels to feel like a complete fool. Forgive yourself for a mistake. Try not to exacerbate the mistake.
Leigh, he sounds like a complete AC who doesn’t deserve you. Runnergirl is right — don’t beat yourself up over it. Today makes the first complete week of NC for me (woohoo). Based on the comments on this blog, I’m kind of hoping Mr. EU AC doesn’t reach out to me to say he misses me; I fear getting sucked back into the nonsense.
hey there, thanks for the support and suggestions. I just read suck it and see, and yup, for sure I put my hand in that fire…can you smell the burning flesh??? I know deep down what I have to do so, like Magnolia said, its back in the NC saddle. Im so grateful for this site, Natalie and all of you that post. Peace and Blessings!!