Many people, especially those with a penchant for unavailable relationships, struggle with rejection and take it very personally, which is unsurprising when they also fear making mistakes and engage in trying to ‘win’ people over.
Rejection is feeling that you’ve not been shown due care (hence you feel uncared for) or being turned down which leaves you feeling that you weren’t up to ‘standard’.
Things not working out and hearing/experiencing NO is a part of life. We all go through it although you’ll notice that those who cope with rejection, don’t call it ‘rejection’. They call it ‘breaking up’, ‘it not working out’, ‘not getting the job’, ‘the friendship growing apart’, ‘different priorities’, ‘a disagreement’, ‘they said NO’ etc.
In dating and relationships, ‘rejection’ is impossible to avoid because not all dates and relationships are supposed to work out – that’s why dating is a discovery phase and even if it progresses into a relationship, it might not work.
Short of only ever being with one person, you will have to turn people down, let go, and break up with them and vice versa.
It’s unavoidable and being able to say NO, to opt out of situations, to admit when something isn’t working, is part of the natural order of freeing yourself up to be available for a mutual relationship.
Unfortunately, if you have found yourself in unavailable relationships, especially as a Fallback Girl (or guy), you have some major issues with rejection, either taking it too hard and being derailed by it, or busting a gut to ensure that you don’t experience it, even though you actually are.
Every day I hear stories of people who are completely overwhelmed by rejection or repeatedly throwing themselves under the same rejection bus because they don’t want to deal with the pain of accepting someone’s choice in another person or their treatment of them.
They think they can make one or a number of rejections right by trying to get this person to validate them and unfortunately end up experiencing even more pain.
Or…they languish in the sorrow of the rejection and they end up living in the past, thinking about the coulda, woulda, shoulda, shaming and blaming themselves, and avoiding their present and future. The rejection triggers a previous rejection plunging them into more pain.
What you need to realise about avoiding rejection, whether it’s by living in the past, fearing starting over and giving yourself a hard time about all of the things that you perceive as a rejection of you, or you’ve been clinging to a one trick three legged horse and refusing to fold on a relationship that’s completely detracting from you, is:
All of this trying to dodge the rejection bullet is actually doing anything but what you intended because you are rejecting yourself.
The mindset that surrounds someone that thinks they’ve been rejected, are rejectionable and that there is external evidence to support their mindset means that the unhealthy beliefs and feeding the self-fulfilling prophecy automatically opt them out of anything that contradicts this, not least because they’re not participating actively in their lives and moving forward.
The two easiest ways to avoid rejection in relationships – don’t have any relationships or get involved with someone who offers the least likely prospect of commitment or a relationship – it’s ‘safe rejection’ but both still wind up being self-rejection.
I’ve had to learn to stop taking things to the nth degree, making everything about me, and seeing things not going my way as ‘rejection’. I’m pretty sure I used to get abandonment and rejection confused hence why I’d feel so terrible – they’re two different things but also people not doing what you want isn’t rejection or abandonment; it’s just people doing their own thing.
Rejection paves the way to opening a new door in your life. While it can and often does hurt, them doing what you may not be able to do for yourself, frees you up to gain perspective and be available for yourself and a more fulfilling relationship…if you don’t avoid it.
The fact is that while occasionally I see people being torn up about a relationship not working out with someone they had a mutual one with love, care, trust, and respect that has for whatever reason not worked out, the overwhelming majority of people I witness struggling with ‘rejection’, are struggling with feeling that they weren’t up to ‘standard’ for someone and a relationship that they shouldn’t have been available for in the first place. It’s back to ‘I can’t believe they don’t want me’ syndrome.
“Why am I not up to standard for someone and a situation that was undeserving me? OMG! I must be highly rejectionable!”
If you were actually in something that detracted from you and had a load of code amber and red warnings, them ‘turning you down’ is actually a blessing in disguise. Let them skip on down the street and find someone else to mess with.
Stop feeling bad about the fact that someone who you knew (whether you choose to admit it or not) had clear signs that they weren’t capable of being the person you wanted them to be or giving you the relationship you want, didn’t ‘change’ for you.
The funny thing is – you not accepting someone is…rejection. You’re feeling rejected about the fact that they didn’t change from what you find rejectionable.
You don’t have to see rejection as something terrible.
You were in this relationship too. Instead of rejecting the truth of who they are or your relationship, accept it and recognise that you’re ‘out’ for a damn good reason!
People are allowed to say NO to you. They are. Don’t panic though – it cuts both ways!
You can’t just wallow in pain or stick to a relationship that detracts from you like glue just because it’s better than feeling ‘rejection rejection‘.
Some of the things you see as rejection aren’t rejection – it’s giving you an Early Opt Out with no penalties, a difference of opinion, or NO.
Them not changing = them not changing.
Different values = wanted different things.
Disagreement = disagreement.
They couldn’t give you what you want (even if they talked out of their bum) = overestimated capacity and Betting On Potential
Even if they were ‘great’, they’re just not that special that you should deem yourself as being some sort of ‘rejection case’. You wanted different things – that sounds a hell of a lot better than “They rejected me” especially because rejection automatically creates the assumption that you are wholly and solely responsible for why the relationship hasn’t worked out or why they behave as they do – you’re not.
Don’t see your relationships as a ‘waste’ or that you are now ‘rejectionable’ – that’s writing off both bad and good times. Not all relationships can or are meant to last and to wallow in rejection or to avoid it, is to also disregard the truth. Maybe there are things you could have done differently but guess what? You weren’t alone. Whatever your relationship was supposed to be, it’s been even if you would have preferred it to be something different.
Instead of feeling crap about everything you didn’t get that you think you were entitled to – remember who they were and why it’s over. If there’s some good in there, great, but if what you’re mourning is the loss of what didn’t happen, don’t ‘waste’ your life by devoting it to taking up pain and rejection solitude as a vocation.
Same goes for dates – dating is a discovery phase! Trust me when I say you haven’t discovered anything so fabulous about a date that warrants you carrying on like they were the last chance saloon!
You wanted different things. You had a difference of opinion. They’re not ready for commitment whether it’s you in the hot seat or The Most Perfect Person in the Universe. Whatever it is – it’s not the definition of you.
Your thoughts?
Check out my ebooks the No Contact Rule and Mr Unavailable & The Fallback Girl and more in my bookshop.
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This is great! I went into a tail spin because I was dumped by a guy who turned out to be a narcisstic online porn addict. My monkey brain told me if he did not want me… who would? Duh!!!!! It was not supposed to happen! This guy was also a hypchondriac. He married a doctor who now lives with a high maintenace patient (who also cheats) AND I am free as a BIRD!!!!! Hurray!!!!!!!!
I cried my eyes out for weeks over my ex, who had a pretty decent record of cheating throughout his life, and a coke habit, ( you can see were this going) who, when he went into re-hab, guess what..yeah he cheated with some messed up bint…and I was suprised. LOL any way I took him back and two years of sobriety what did I discover…Im not even gonna write it…I was devastated…In honesty I would have rather he relapsed (there goes the unconditional love I was supposed to have) because I could’nt take the rejection. The conclusion that I come today is quite sobering really in that, It was’nt the drink or drugs he IS a complete tosser. Let this also be a warning to all the Renovators and Florence Nightingales…what you see is what you get, even with a 12 step programme in tow. What a total whack job Ive been.
Nicola, you’re not alone! One of my friends, who is now happily married, was in a similar situation involving a jackass with a perma-sniffle. Her rationale for him cheating was that people do things when they are cracked-out that they wouldn’t normally do. Fine, but some people are so self destructive and messed up that there is no loving them out of it. Just like in your situation, hers got sober and he still did everything in his power to make their relationship a hot mess. You haven’t been a whack job at all! Sometimes this is how we learn.
No really, putting up with this crap, makes me a whack job. LOL LOL Hey Ho. Rejections tough though. But It does get easier because in the end you start to do the rejecting. Like when you see smoke!
Girl, if that makes you a whack job…then I’m one too! Seriously, my ex was in his early 30′s and would have status messages up on Fbook at 9am saying he was “still partying”. Now I didn’t know or care to ask if that meant, “hoovering up massive mountains of cocaine, that’s why I’m still up from the night before, y’all!”, but obviously it’s not good and I knew he drank like a fish. I didn’t ask any questions (dumbass move, he was yapping about his drinking constantly – however, Florence-ing has never been one of my many jacked-up relationship moves), but I figured if he was addicted to something it would reveal itself (err, hello? something was revealing itself all over my Fbook newsfeed) and it wasn’t my problem to fix (the one rational statement in that sentence, FYI). Leave these guys to their self-destructive mess, you have better things to do and WAY better men to meet
You haven’t been a whack job Nicola as the others have said but you have been too hopeful, trusting, and blind. You couldn’t save this man from Jesse Jaming you – hang up the nurses uniform, find healthier purposes, and heed the lessons learned. I say this to every Florence and Renovator – if you have that great a need to be needed, to fix/heal/help, do charity work. There are so many wonderful causes, children without homes, animals waiting to be taken of that are a more appropriate use for your energy. All women do that love men with addictions and lying habits, is provide an obstacle to consequences and growth. His life is his to fuck up or fix – you don’t need to be in it.
Thankyou NML. I know what your saying about the obsticales to consequences. But when your in it up to your neck the hardest thing is to let go. Its so painful to realise that again Im unlovable, and no thats not the reason, he was a walking talking snorting AC well before I came along. The thing is that he is swanning around our very small town out on dates with other women, wooing them with his sobriety and that he is a changed man now looking for The One…Im like SAY WHAT! Its just an awful place to be and Im holed up here because my life has shrunk to nothing whilst he syphoned off all the love, laughter and spirit, that he so loved when we first met. These relationships are so bloody painful. Im not going back though not ever again. I want to walk in the Sun, alone. That means for me no dating for along time. Why because if Im honest thats what Ive always wanted, but never given it to me.
Don’t be so hard on yourself, Nicola. Just know you are wiser now and will handle the situation more swiftly the next time. Seriously, be kind to yourself. It’s one of the most important things, I think.
Valley Forge Lady – After blinking a few times at your description of him, I think it’s safe to say you’ve had a lucky escape!
One thing I’ve noticed is that people that deal with rejection tend to place a lot of importance on other’s opinions (what fancy-pants psychologists call an “external locus of control”).
As a result, they really let other people’s opinions or rejections of them get the best of them.
But who really gets to decide how you feel and how you react to other people’s actions? Ultimately, you, yourself are responsible for how you feel.
No one can reject you unless you’ve first surrendered your own power to someone else and given them the authority to “reject” you.
Clay, I agree – only I’d call it ‘over-investing’ or ‘investing too early’.
When you’ve put all your eggs in one bastard (as Dorothy Parker said), then you’re much more likely to take perceived ‘rejections’ very hard.
Solution? Don’t invest. I have had some guys drifting in and out of my radar recently, and I haven’t invested in any of them, so guess what? When they drift out, no hard feelings – in fact, no feelings at all.
Anyone else here heard the saying ‘Rejection is God’s protection’? I come back to that one from time to time when I think about some of the awful men I chose to go out with/be strung along by! Boy was I lucky to escape.
In fact – drumroll please – I have had some unsolicited VALIDATION recently! A married friend of mine who is going through a rough patch with her husband phoned me recently for a long chat. She knows my ex, and said to me ‘Having myself married a guy who is surgically attached to his parents, I think you have had a very lucky escape.’
And I agreed with her heartily.
Love that saying PJM!
Wise words Clay. I think that in some instances, whether we perceive it as a rejection or not, what someone is actually doing when they cross boundaries is rejecting being a respectful partner with integrity. That is what many people struggle with until they realise that instead of, as you say, giving them the power and taking it on, it’s recognising that they’re rejecting a lot of the stuff that comes with being in a mutual relationship, not because of you, but because it’s not who they are or what they want to be.
WOW….you hit the nail today Nat! Just now I got news that my ex’s new gf (my old ex friend) wrote a bunch of lies in her blog about me defaming her in my blog and in my twitter account every week. All lies! I’ve never even touched her name on persona on my blog. Needless to say, I’ve been thinking she was so much better than me for getting the best of him and being so happy. What it is all making me realize is how stupid I have been to even think this way. I gave this girl my trust and even if it was years later down the line, she betrayed it (even if we didn’t really keep in touch) and treats me like a stranger and the worse person in the world by lying about it.
To some extent this is all part of rejection, because I feel that by loving her and not me I am the worse of the bunch. When in reality he was the assclown all along. I am starting to accept my part in the relationship, but he has never owned any of his wrong doings and in his eyes and hers I was the crazy one just because I landed in the nut house once. I’m looking for some sort of validation and acknoloedgement from both of them that what they did was wrong, specially him. And what I need to realize is that that relationship alone does not define me. She is not better than me, because I was brave enough to get out of that miserable life and I can move on even with the pain, because it slowly, but surely sill pass. So help me God.
I replied to you on Twitter earlier. The key with this is that this man represents a very painful chapter in your life but you don’t own him or his progression. You and her are not friends although you were a few years back, but while their actions are insensitive and she has leveraged the shared history you had with him, it’s not ‘wrong’ for them to be with each other because you don’t own either of them but their individual treatment of you is certainly inappropriate. Ultimately, you’ll be blue in the face trying before you get that validation, not least because she may not have viewed you as friends for quite a while, and the truth is – neither did you. You don’t love her now and what’s between you is from times gone by. She hasn’t chosen him over you because whatever loyalty and friendship there was had passed – she’s just doing what a lot of women do – chasing love at all costs and trying to be the exception to the rule. Let it go. She’s clearly a twit mouthing off but as I said to you in New York, stop showing them that you give a damn. Trust me – a woman who is as happy as she claims to be, doesn’t fanny around writing shite like that on Twitter and her blog. Me thinks she doth protest too much.
As I read this with tears in my eyes…I completely agree with you Nat. I need to let all this pain go and move on once and for all. I just didn imagine that this episode with them would hurt me so much. I’m still in therapy which is good,, but I think I need a good cry to let it all out for good. Thanks again….you have been way more patient and understanding than my friends!
Awesome, just awesome
Sometimes in these situations the unavailable person comes to recognize that they can’t give you the relationship you want and, being basically a decent person, opts out. That’s not rejection! Hell, I’d rather that than what happened in my last go-around with my ex, i.e. the guy knew he didn’t want a relationship with me, but stuck around feeding me bull until it became too much of an effort for him. That’s not rejection either!
One of my friends was dating a great, emotionally available guy and, two months in, his family had a major crisis. He ended things with her, not because she wasn’t good enough to magically make him able to handle both a major life event and a budding-into-serious relationship, but because he knew he couldn’t give her what she needed and that his focus needed to be on his family. He told her straight up, “You deserve more than what I can give you right now and my family really needs me.” She was sad, but didn’t take it as a rejection, because it had jack to do with her. Whether it’s a great relationship, a sh*tty relationship or a “meh.” relationship, like Nat says, you can’t hang your value on what someone else chooses to do/not do!
That last line is true, Natasha. I remember oscillating on that because the AC told me he had to end things because he did not like me as a person, and had been pretending to be happy and want a future with me. In other words, he tied his choice to me as a person. That was tough. But still, all along, I had this huge part of me inside going, ‘Well, what can you do about that?’ I had treated him kindly, reliably and honestly, and so it was all that other stuff – the rest of the way I am – that he wasn’t into. Again, you can’t really do much about that. It’s someone’s preference. It was actually this great opportunity to take my caravan elsewhere, and even to give it a bit of a polish (I like my caravan!).
Apart from all that, I have recognised from these experiences that what people say when they’re heading out the door is pretty dubious. People say all sorts of things to make them feel better about their own decisions, that they may or may not understand, that may come from hugely personal impulses and fears, or just superficial, selfish thoughts that they’d like to explore something or someone else in life.
And, yes, yes, Natalie, I have to remember this too, especially now that in a new relationship:
I’ve had to learn to stop taking things to the nth degree, making everything about me, and seeing things not going my way as ‘rejection’. I’m pretty sure I used to get abandonment and rejection confused hence why I’d feel so terrible – they’re two different things but also people not doing what you want isn’t rejection or abandonment; it’s just people doing their own thing.
It’s that selfishness that gets you in hot/cold relationships – where you will be nice and attentive if you’re getting what you want, and getting feelings and perceptions projected back to you from the other. Whereas, once you realise the other person is separate – and may want to do their own thing (even something routine), the default of the assclown (and related tendencies) is to withdraw and belittle, perceiving it as rejection. So true – really, it’s not that dramatic.
“Apart from all that, I have recognised from these experiences that what people say when they’re heading out the door is pretty dubious.”
Oh, true story Elle. If someone was an AC in the relationship, I think it’s about a one in a million chance that they are not going to act like one when they are ending it. It’s kind of funny, because my ex-AC was an ass when things ended and I was shocked. I mean, really? Was I was expecting him to say, “Now that this thing is over and I’ve gotten what I wanted, I’m going to do a total about-face and be respectful to this woman that I haven’t actually had respect for while I boomeranged in and out of her life for five years.”? Not likely.
Fact is, someone can “not like you as a person” (Who says that? For serious. Your caravan is awesome.) and the relationship can still end with everyone’s dignity intact, despite any hurt feelings. If someone’s Decency Quotient is in the negatives, it’s that much harder. Couple that with us on the other end with some self-esteem /blame absorbtion/Jedi mind trick issues and it can snowball into, “Ohmygod. They don’t want to be with me. I’ve been rejected.” and the reality of how unhealthy the whole thing was to begin with can get lost in the Rejection Shuffle (a highly depressing dance – I don’t recommend it for parties.)
I’m so excited for you that your new relationship is going well. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you sharing about that – I’m sure that should I meet someone normal to have dinner with, I’m going to deal with some of the same stuff. Enjoy it – you deserve it
Elle, this is so true!
“Apart from all that, I have recognised from these experiences that what people say when they’re heading out the door is pretty dubious. People say all sorts of things to make them feel better about their own decisions, that they may or may not understand…”
—My ex AC said all kinds of contradictory things upon breaking up with me. In the same sentence in which he said it wasn’t me and he was just stressed with work he went on to accuse me of being “too resistant” (yeah…no surprise there, not always bending to his AC whims), “liking to go back and forth too much in conversation” (no kidding, I thought a convo was about a back and forth exchange!) and “liking to play fight too much”….WTF?! During a year and a 1/2 of back and forth, his complaints changed and he also had NO recollection of why he broke up with me, citing that I was the only gf he had no reason to break up with, saying I was a “good match” for him and the list goes on of all my great qualities.
Soooo yea…with ACs, it is all up for grabs and one really should give little weight to what a lot of them supposedly feel and think as they barely know themselves and are so broken that truly, their rejection should be welcomed. When my ex tried to pretend he was doing a noble thing by freeing me, it made me so upset, but now, I am eternally grateful that our relationship crashed and burned when it did! I am sure he was not being thoughtful or noble, but the Universe sure has a way of working things out despite that. I am glad he rejected me and I am glad that even when he came back and tried to pretend to change, he rejected me some more, as now I realize 1000% that he was NOT the one for me and I had plenty issues to work out myself. I am currently working on them and this article made me feel great tonight about the rejection by my recent EUM too, as I am certain he is not for me either and I am saving myself the heartache before I get in way too deep.
I think the moral of the story here is when you have been involved with someone who didn’t treat you that well/struggled to be honest/you regard as being an AC, never expect an ‘honesty’ in the breakup. Why break the habit of a lifetime?
Wow did we all date the same person? I love this website, I never even knew that I was being boomeranged til I found this blog. I knew I was attracted eum’s and/or ac’s but I didnt quite know the signs… I’m grateful for the words of wisdom various people post on here. My last eum/ac run in broke up with me and I remember being relieved and not feeling rejected at all, just walked away and thanked him. I didnt chase him, nothing its not normally my style but then he came back and I thought well maybe he’s seen the lite, then he started disappearing and coming back with me thinking he just couldnt do without me, how dumb. By the fourth time it was like I was beat down into feeling rejected, had I just not taken him back after the first and only real break up, I would have been spared. I never, ever want to feel that way again.
Ah your AC Elle was a real piece of work. It’s always good to remember that emotionally dishonest people are never going to be in a position to be truly honest about their reasons for breaking up nor are they ever going to own up to their part.
And it really is their own thing. If we remove ourselves out of the equation and remember that we can’t perform Jedi mind tricks and that unless they are a schizophrenic, they are not changing their personality *for* us, we realise they’re showing us themselves.
Thanks, Natalie! It’s all good! I even laugh about the fact that he was so unashamedly clear (brutal, one might say) in his not-into-me stance. It is actually pretty funny. Now, that is. But, yeah, Natasha, that oscillation I talked about is the rejection dance you brilliantly referred to. There’s definitely a perfomance-element to it all, and therefore, as Nat says, a choice. Thanks for the sweet thoughts, ladies, and best wishes MissE.
“It’s always good to remember that emotionally dishonest people are never going to be in a position to be truly honest about their reasons for breaking up nor are they ever going to own up to their part.”
Ooooh, I really needed to hear that! It’s seems so simple, and basic, and obvious, but apparently I am daft, as a lightbulb just went off! I’ve been really struggling with some things, and this really helps me to clarify it.
Thank you for this, and for this amazing post, which I need to read a few more times for it to really sink in. Still feeling rejected
Your friend’s situation is so true! It’s just not that personal! It’s a pain in the ass but you cannot fault him for being upfront.
Agreed Nat! They worked together at the time and it was a total drama-free situation – he was a decent guy in a crappy situation and the timing was off. She, in turn, didn’t make it about her! It’s funny, because I’ve been guilty of thinking in the past, “I know this guy has always been a user and a raging jackass for five years…but, maybe he couldn’t be decent to me when things ended because….he hates his job/he has a headache/his favorite pair of shoelaces broke.” Errrrr, lesson learned!
Clay……….. You are a wise young Man! Luv Ya!
Fabulous timing! I just had a suck it and see evening with the ex. I was nervous, yes, but willing to remember that he was someone I’d once liked enough to date. I’d not forgotten that he finished things with me but I’ve been so gloomy about being rejected that I wanted the dark cloud to lift. So, I saw him to exchange items we both needed to return to each other. We chatted, we had coffee and it was nice. I see him more now as a person, not the man who rejected me. More like a great guy who I spent 7 months with who happens to mot be in a place where he can offer me what I need. So, ‘what’s wrong with me’? Nothing! I’m ok. I just can’t/won’t be happy settling for less than something that will make me happy. The relationship was doomed from the start as I knew he was EUM. At the time, the breakup sucked but now I feel a sense of c’est la vie and I recognise that we’re rejecting each others chosen paths, not each other as people.
It’s quite a nice feeling.
Sarah,
You’re a better person than me…I saw my ex last week and thought what a dickhead he looked in flip flops. Thankgod he did reject me…the shame of walking down our High Street with him would have killed me. He looked like Donald Duck.
Hilarious!
“I recognise that we’re rejecting each others chosen paths, not each other as people.” Brilliant Sarah T
A lot of people misconstrue the truth behind the rejection as them not being “good enough.”
Our mind filters our experiences in several ways–creating our perspective of life.
1.) Our mind will delete certain factors–only seeing what we want to see. 2.) Our mind will also distort or add things that aren’t really there 3.) Our mind takes certain experiences and generalizes them–creating stereotypical beliefs.
When it comes down to it, the way our mind filters our reality solely depends on how we feel about our selves. Your deeply rooted negative beliefs about yourself WILL impact the way you perceive your life.
If one of your beliefs is that you aren’t lovable… in some way, you’ll filter situations, trying to prove to yourself that you AREN’T lovable.
Our mind can seriously be such a bull sh** machine if you let it.
What’s help me change my negative beliefs about myself is POSITIVE FOCUSING… When we focus on what we WANT instead of don’t want to happen, we are going towards something rather than away from it.
When you’re avoiding something through negative focusing… you’re left walking in the dark with no direction. However, if you focus on what you WANT… you at least have a light to show you which direction to go:)
Thanks for this!
Thanks for sharing Mika. I have found that people who don’t feel they’re good enough look for constant examples (particularly from the media and peers) in real life to justify the mentality even though there are many other things contradicting it.
So true. This reminds me of a dance class years ago, when someone had given me a hard time about missing a step, and stepped on his foot, by accident, of course! I was overweight, felt offended and was upset.
The instructor came up to me in the locker room and said,”Why do you give so much power to one person, when so many people, myself included, think you’re amazing?”
Wise words. Things that you make you go hhmmmm…….
this is a great follow-up to the last one on rumination, obsession, etc. I am back here today not because of that, but because I was just confronted with the exEUM/AC last night after 6+ months of NC, calling from an unfamiliar #. and I caught him in a ridiculous lie within minutes. just when I felt I had made a very big step forward in healing, and was taking a “rumination holiday”. this issue of rejection is so big, I really want to focus on that, and not start having unhealthy thoughts b/c of this call.
sometimes I wonder: I have a whole bunch of girlfriends like me, in their 40′s, 50′s, who are still single/no kids, seeming to always attract the commitmentphobes, going through patterns described here for EU. but for all, incl. me, our parents didn’t split up, they were all happily married for 50+ years! no family is perfect and without conflict or issues. but the reality is our model was truly “for better or worse”. when you really love someone, you don’t leave b/c of problems. my sister’s still married the guy she met at 18. and most of these single female friends have siblings who are in very long term marriages. I can look back to my first big breakup at age 19 with 1st love, absolutely devastated, even though he behaved like a jerk (really). I could not wrap my head around the concept of breaking up, for 2 people in love. it’s as if there’s an unwritten universal law in my psyche: when you & someone else mutually decide you love each other, that bond is FOREVER. it’s a cultural thing too, my mom is from Middle East. there was no such thing as divorce, no matter what. her parents had an arranged marriage. my dad is American, but I absolutely had those old-world values imprinted on my being. my mother’s older sister moved here w/her family, and her husband ended up leaving her after 35 years for a younger woman. she had a total breakdown, as did her 2 daughters, none of them to this day has EVER recovered (25+ years). I understand that their way of commitment and attachment to family developed from 1000′s of years of survival (minority group) — literally, the family IS everything. leaving is unfathomable. and I’m starting to think somehow, in my brain, that has gotten raveled in to the whole EU/rejection sensitivity issues. sigh…
Anoosh, I don’t think it’s just a Middle Eastern thing – most people *everywhere* got married up until the 50s and 60s. We have Caribbean, African, English, and Irish cultural influences in our family – all of these were stick together no matter what in the past. Yes some of the cultural aspects of the Middle East (eg standing within the community) certainly mean that being left can deal a huge blow but I’ve heard variations of your aunt’s story many times over several cultures. And here’s the truth of it – having a no break up stance could only ever work if the two of you are in mutual agreement about it. In Ireland where I was brought up and I know there’s a few readers that can attest to it, women have stayed with men like your ex at 19 that remained EXACTLY the same. When divorce came in the 90s, I literally watched families break apart. The pretence was OVER. And lots of readers of BR come from families with happy marriages – it’s your perception of what a relationship entails, choices in partners, beliefs, self-esteem etc that affects who you end up with.
And I’m sorry but when you really love someone, you love them in reality. Problems don’t break a relationship because shit happens. Relationships need to ride the smooth with the rough. But fundamental character and values differences that erode you and the relationship are not ‘problems’ – they are ticking time bombs that will explode. Cheating, lying, beating, disappearing, verbal and emotional abuse, mind fuckery, not being in the relationship, still being attached to someone else – these are not ‘problems’. They are crater sized holes in your relationship.
Re your ex – it’s just a phonecall. He’s still who he is plus he slipped in some porkies. You have to start asking yourself what you have to ruminate over? List it.
“slipped in some porkies”, lmao! have no idea what that means but it sounds hilarious! been doing the lists thing for a long time, rrgghh. I’m sure the ruminating stems from many of the things you talk about frequently — not letting go of the fantasy of who they are in the beginning despite lots of A/C proof in the present, not knowing when to fold, last chance saloon, etc. since that phone call, I’ve felt strangely numb. which is great, actually. maybe it means I’m finally over it! ’bout time. that would be fabulous.
couldn’t agree more, absolutely about this phenomenon across cultures the world over. what I’ve wondered about more are the friends like me who had an example of very strong commitment & families as our model, and have had trouble finding it in our own lives. it seems as if many of us developed very naive and romanticized ideas about love, susceptible to falling too easily in love. and we weren’t prepared for how relationships very often get treated as disposable, how easily people could walk away after years of commitment. I know I was never given any kind of direction for how to deal with rejection or heartbreak. just had no concept about processing letting go of a romantic attachment. I don’t know if this observation is of any significance. my mind just never rests, always wanting explanations for everything. I should’ve gotten PhD (too bad at math & science)
!
many more thoughts on the cultural things, talk about it w/my friends whose families are from the region all the time. don’t like being on stage, but for fun I was thinking of putting together a stand-up act on the topic from a female POV, b/c some of the stuff is hysterical. omg, “boundaries”? what’s that?!! it’s like “My Big Fat Greek Wedding” x 100. or more.
One of my closest friends – her parents blissfully happy for a gazillion years. She’s always dated dipsticks. Her dad was the type of guy she wanted to settle down with in the end but she liked the fun and being treated mean and kept keen by Mr Unavailables. Her parents may be happy and absolutely love her to death but that doesn’t make her the most confident person on earth. To be honest and she admits this – she always thought when she was ready to settle that it would just happen and a marriable guy would just come along. And also – like many women, she thought that you get attracted to the guy, you love him to death and then you settle. She didn’t reckon being messed around. She’s often liked Mr Unavailable – she didn’t enjoy the behaviours that come with the package. It was ‘Act now, think later’ and it’s the usual moral of the story – nothing wrong with fun and excitement but if you make a habit of being with Mr Unavailables that don’t always treat you in the best of ways, even if you started out with good self-esteem, you end up taking a few knocks and being out of sync with what you really want.
I’ll come to the stand up!
Thank you, Anoosh and Natalie, for your thoughts above. Like Anoosh and her friends, I’m in my early 50′s and from a secure family with parents who’ve been married over 60 years and still very much in love. And yet my older sister and I have both had relationships with A/C’s and EUM’s. I was puzzled by this, but as Natalie says, having parents that are happily married and who love you to death doesn’t necessarily make you the most confident person on earth. And I agree with Anoosh that coming from a background of parents with a long and secure marriage maybe we’re just naive about love and overly trusting of the other person in our own relationships without doing the “due diligence” first. I guess because my lovely Dad isn’t the sort to mess people around, I’ve been totally blindsided by the ability of men I’ve been involved with to have such a totally different set of values to his, that they would treat me without the love, care, trust and respect that just goes without saying in my own family. I’m just amazed that I hadn’t ever joined up the dots and realised that I’ve actually been involved with the same guy different package many times since my late teens! Until now, that is… I was totally devastated by my breakup in February (after he literally ran off at Heathrow Airport at the end of our holiday, which he had spent being unbelieveably spineless, self-centred and heartless almost the whole time). I literally had a breakdown, lost a stone in weight in 3 weeks, couldn’t sleep, could barely drag myself into work, and felt utterly rejected and inconsolable. I’ve been NC for just over 2 months now, and after a *lot* of reading through the BR archives and weekly therapy, all the lessons that life has been repeatedly showing me (and which Natalie points out to us here) are at last starting to sink in, the unbearable pain has gradually been receding and my self-esteem is building bit by bit. It has taken the wake-up call of being so badly shaken physically, mentally and emotionally by this last relationship to start making the effort to do life differently. It’s hard to break the habits of a lifetime of what really amounts to self-neglect, and sometimes the baby steps are frustratingly small, but I’m incredibly grateful for the wonderful resource that you provide here, Natalie. Thank you so much.
My parents are coming up on 50 years of marriage. They have definitely had their problems, but have stayed together all these years. But I don’t believe that just because a couple is together long-term necessarily means their marriage is a healthy example. I learned a lot watching my parents. My dad was often absent for work, and when he was home, he was still absent, watching TV or napping on the sofa, while my Mom ran around making the house nice, cooking, keeping us kids from disturbing him. She basically raised us by herself. My dad was/is also very controlling, and I have never gotten a clear picture of who my mom really is, because she was always so busy morphing into whatever she needed to be to accomodate his moods.
I too was never taught how to deal with rejection or heartbreak. The only example I saw was to bend over backward to try and keep someone happy. So, basically I was taught to avoid rejection at all costs.
This is only one example, but I think I always equated a marriage/relationship with completely losing yourself, and that example has definitely scared me off “commitment”.
Makes me wonder if other women who are surrounded by long-term relationships, but don’t choose healthy partners, are maybe have never seen the difference between healthy long-term, and just plain old commitment out of obligation or fear.
“I’ve had to learn to stop taking things to the nth degree, making everything about me, and seeing things not going my way as ‘rejection’. I’m pretty sure I used to get abandonment and rejection confused hence why I’d feel so terrible…”
Can I add that another thing we might confuse with rejection is humiliation? I remember another reader’s comment where a break up reminded her of some guys or girls that had pretended to like her, then told her the “truth.”
As a pre-teen I was told often, probably just to see my reaction, that I was ugly, a dog, disgusting, etc and explicitly forced to listen to guys pretending to puke at the thought of touching me or kissing me or even coming within the radius of my apparent smell. They would imagine sexual scenarios out loud and then retch and laugh, etc.
This wasn’t a simple “I don’t want to date you.” Obviously it was way more than that. But they did a very good job of blurring my sense of a guy not being interested in me with the sense that I was a freak of nature and physically revolting. I would do a lot not to feel the feelings associated with that group sexual bullying.
I took any guy’s interest as “proof” I wasn’t what those guys said; so a guy’s disinterest unfortunately became proof that I was. I would do a lot not to lose proof that I was not disgusting.
It’s no small task to disassociate the reality of things not working out with an old, stupid message of “you are too disgusting for anyone (worthy) to ever want to work things out with you.” To disassociate the message from reality mentally is one relatively easy hurdle. To let the feelings in the body come – shame, fury, fear – as they do if I actually let myself like someone and risk their rejection, but not to believe those feelings, is another hurdle.
I know I have protected myself by choosing Unavailables: I never *really* liked them in the first place, so I never have to risk things not working out making me feel the way I felt when I did still really like the boys I liked.
Through this blog and other work, I’m getting to the place where I can make really liking someone a possibility again. What I choose to really like is about me. Even if what I really like doesn’t want me, it stings, but I think I can finally handle the idea that not everything/everyone that I love and want needs to love or want me back.
Wise words Magnolia. I think you have to continue to find your way and create an identity on your own terms by whatever means necessary. All I can say from personal experience is that I’ve been called many names, experienced things that made me believe I was a piece of shit, and would still experience a level of discomfort if I recall certain experiences. You’re only human, you can’t erase your past but your head is facing in the wrong direction because the more you look forward and work on now and the future, is the less those things impact you, is the more you can go when you recall a situation “Ah that’s discomfort at remembering something that hurt me” as opposed to “Hello shame”. The situations, the experiences, the people are gone and in the past so they have no more power over you – you do. You get to decide how you feel about you.
Magnolia, OMG, I could have written your post! I had the same type of experiences when I was a pre-teen and teen; boys saying things in front of me about how repulsive I was and how they’d rather die than kiss me. I just never before connected it with the issues I have now with rejection, but everything you said totally rings true for me.
You’ve given me some things to think about …
I think many of us with issues surrounding rejection and EUM actually experienced a lot of rejection with our peers during childhood. So even though I came from a very tight knit and loving family, my horrendous experiences in middle and high school have a lot to do with my fear of intimacy today. It was really painful!
Ive just read this post by you Magnolia. I cannot beleive what I read, that treatment of you was so vile, Im totally at a loss for words. I hope you know that you have a safe place here. Everything you contribute is valid and nothing but love is felt for you. xxxx
Spot on Natalie…absolutely awesome!
Hey Leisha! Thank you!
Hey Natalie, You are welcome! I love what you do…and the pic too!
It’s like you have to make a decision and stick with it, whether it’s staying in the relationship or opting out, and at the same time realize you have the choice to do either. Obsessing and blaming yourself over a decision to stay or even the decision to break up is not making a decision. It’s avoiding taking responsibility for the choices you make every moment.
EXACTLY Robin!
Such good timing, tonight I discovered my ex-EUM-AC-teammate has sold another batch of his sports equipment which we used together.
The first time he did this after ditching the team eg me I was slighted by the rejection. I felt he was trying to erase the memories, especially as he also sold his sports car.
This time however I felt indifferent if not positive. Time does heal.
It certainly does and just remember – he’s just selling equipment. It might be because he’s low on cash, he might be upgrading, he might not have any space anymore or he might not even be exercising.
Natalie,
Another great post. In the work I have been doing myself over the last year, I came to the realization that I suffer from low self-esteem. Rejection can be devastating blow when you don’t understand that about yourself. I had to work hard to get approval from my single parent, an ambivalent father, and I didn’t understand until recently that was how I approached my adult relationships. Either completely give what I could to EUMs, or hold back and not really try (therefore not be available to true rejection and abandonment).
In my last ex, I ended up attracting a man who always had one foot out the door and never fully appreciated me or my efforts to make the relationship work. He said lovely, lovely, things to me about my value to him, our future, a family, in the beginning. When he no longer wanted to be in the relationship, he suddenly broke up with me in about 20 minutes. I had been on the verge of moving in (his suggestion, months before). We hadn’t argued, or had a serious discussion about wanting different things, it was out of the blue. When I asked him why, he placed the reasons solely on me, the level of my performance. He told me it was because I didn’t cycle, we had different energy levels, I worried too much about things, I didn’t have more friends to introduce him to, and that I hadn’t been there for him at times (in our two year relationship I didn’t go to a couple of parties with him because I was tired, that’s the only thing I could guess he meant). We aren’t teenagers, but in our late 30′s, and yet the conversation felt like we were in high school. He continued to say that although we were still having “good times”, these things about me were why he wasn’t happy. That was all he gave me. While in shock, and trying to understand, hearing all of this for the first time, (he revealed me he’d been struggling for months, but outwardly he had only been affectionate and happy around me, introducing me to his parents, telling me he loved me ect) I asked why he hadn’t spoken up about being unhappy or having reservations. He told me it was because he didn’t want me to jump through hoops to make him happy. In other words, his lack of integrity, open and honest communication, was because of me, what I might do. Objectively, I know it wasn’t actually personal, and he did me a favor, but again, actually being told by the one you love you failed them somehow (because they can never say exactly how) is extremely painful.
Jasmine, your ex is a pisstaker. “He told me it was because I didn’t cycle, we had different energy levels, I worried too much about things, I didn’t have more friends to introduce him to, and that I hadn’t been there for him at times (in our two year relationship I didn’t go to a couple of parties with him because I was tired”
Now these are the reasons he gave but as Grace and others pointed out, people say all sorts of inaccurate shit when they break up. They want to break up. They often need to give a reason – in his case, it’s like he bent over and talked out of his arse.
A man in his late 30s who already had his foot out the door, giving excuses of this nature for breaking up, is only demonstrating what a completely immature twit he is.
He failed you many times – you seem to be forgetting that. Never try to make a relationship work where you’re the only one trying to do it. He’s just not that special. He’s also a coward and a tit.
Natalie, you could just as easily have been writing about my ex there as about Jasmine’s. Except that, depressingly, mine wasn’t in his late 30′s but is 53 years old. Like Jasmine, my ex put all the blame for the failure of our relationship on superficial things about me and how our lifestyles and interests were incompatible. Funnily enough, when he talked about his previous failed relationships, it was always their fault too, never his. One (his ex-wife) was “too thick”, another “too controlling” and another was “barking mad”. How disrespectful was that!!!??? Why on earth didn’t I notice those outsized red flags flapping wildly around when I heard him talk about them like that? Too blinded by what I thought was love at the time, I guess. The really important things that were incompatible about us, which I doubt at his age he will ever have the insight to realise, were our basic life values – his are so far removed from the ones I grew up with that it’s no wonder being with him ended up making me so ill – my subconscious self must have been working overtime to get me to reject him!
Natalie – “They often need to give a reason – in his case, it’s like he bent over and talked out of his arse ” – the mental picture I had of that just had me roaring with laughter
Great timing on this post. I have recently ended my marriage and unfortunately, he still lives here as I am not going to throw him into the streets. What I took away from this post was being ok with decisions you make and not making them into a personal rejection. I know that he does not see it this way but I am not rejecting him as a person, I am rejecting him as my husband. It is not my job to say that he can’t be a good husband to someone else. Someone who has a completely different idea of good husband than me! He has certainly been an EUM and an asshat but there may be someone who is fine with that – who am I to say?
“It’s unavoidable and being able to say NO, to opt out of situations, to admit when something isn’t working, is part of the natural order of freeing yourself up to be available for a mutual relationship. ” You know what else it is? MATURE. It’s mature to be able to admit your own culpability in a doomed relationship. It’s mature to say that your own fear of rejection made you marry someone totally unsuitable in every way possible.
Taking this stance on rejection will help me immensely as I deal with this fallout. Thanks for another insightful post, Nat!
“It is not my job to say that he can’t be a good husband to someone else.” – very true Wicked74. At the end of the day, you wanted different things. The relationship wasn’t working for you.
I was so sick of my MM telling me that if he was not married; we would be in a real relationship. It used to make my heart skip, because I thought we had this connection, which may or not be true, but so what? Now, I realize that each time I was paid this “compliment” (gag me!), I was in reality being rejected, each instance provided false hope which in turn never happened, resulting in rejection! By sticking around, I was perpetuating this vicious cycle of rejection. Lesson learned! Thanks again Natalie!
Very insightful and very, very true Nevertoolate!
Thank you for another well-timed post.
I am struggling with rejection right now, and you rephrased it in just the right way. This will be bookmarked as a favorite for the next time a guy and I “want different things”!
Glad to help!
Mika,
I really identified with your comment, and maybe in some ways you didn’t even intend for. I sure as hell am guilty of seeing rejection as not being good enough. As an OW (I guess I need accept that he ended it, and I am indeed an ex OW now…that stings to admit), I felt in constant competition with his wife and, sadly, his kids. When he ended it last week I kept thinking, “I lost. I’m not good enough”. My whole relationship with him was based on me trying to prove myself worthy of his love, more worthy than someone else, and when it all came to a head, I felt defeated and unloved and rejected.
You wrote: “When it comes down to it, the way our mind filters our reality solely depends on how we feel about ourselves” – bingo. Having low self-esteem and little confidence in myself, I didn’t think I deserved to be respected and cared for properly. As Natalie has said in a previous post, my managed-down expectations kept getting lower and I accepted less and less from this man. I lost myself in searching for that special phrase, text/email, that light at the end of the tunnel, to pick me back up and make me feel wanted by him – that’s not love, and it’s certainly not healthy. I was constantly anxious and upset and longing. So much longing.
Contrary to your post, I AM focusing on the negative right now – thinking about how miserable I was in the relationship, how often I cried and how he never gave me what I needed. I made all of that easy for him, but it’s not what I want – I want to be happy and loved fully and, by being a mistress, I was being constantly rejected…I just didn’t realize it.
I’m still at that stage where my heart would leap if he came back to me saying he made a mistake, but I hope that if and when that day does come, I will be in a place where I can “reject” him. I’m not there yet, but I have some hope.
Bri,
I think this relationship with this guy has been very painful for you – as you say full of longing and “if onlys” and full of highs and lows and i think it has affected your self esteem, it is bound to have. It’ll take some time to heal from this experience and find peace of mind again. I think you never had peace of mind while in the r/s with him. Now, you can breathe again -the anxiety, uncertainty and turmoil is at an end. I always say *you cannot put a price on peace of mind*. To me, my peace of mind is worth everything to me. I wish you the best on your road to recovery.
And the truth is Bri, you could never compete with someone’s children and you shouldn’t want to. OWs start out in a default position of being at least second best giving you the opportunity to ‘fight’ for pole position. Start relationships on a level footing and don’t set yourself up in situations where he has to ‘choose’ you over someone else.
Bri,
Hoping that one day saying “no” to him is a good sign that you’re headed in the right direction. At least you know what you want AND what you deserve. The first step about changing your current mindset about needing him, is rediscovering your self-worth.
Our deepest negative beliefs about ourselves are stemmed from our negative experiences in our childhood. Even though our conscious minds KNOW what we want, our subconscious mind is the one steering the wheel. And what your subconscious mind believes is what the little girl inside of you believes.
Our subconscious mind will always try to prove to ourselves that we aren’t worthy, smart, pretty (and the list goes on) enough through self sabotage —>(i. e, you going after a relationship that you KNEW was doomed to begin with).
However, we CAN change our subconscious mind’s negative beliefs about ourselves and in doing so, we improve our lives for the better in ALL aspects.
You WILL get to that point when someday, you can tell him and other men (in your future relationships) that you are a woman WORTHY of love, respect and happiness.
Once you start loving yourself unconditionally, you’ll be attracting the right kind of men and the relationship you crave for.
Remember Bri, you MUST attract love… and never demand it.. And the best way to do it is to know to the DEPTHS of your core– that you are a beautiful, strong, radiant woman that doesn’t need any man to complete her… because she completes herself..
and THAT is the root behind successful relationships..is when each individual person doesn’t NEED each other to feel complete:)
sending you good vibes,
<3 Mika
“I’m pretty sure I used to get abandonment and rejection confused hence why I’d feel so terrible – they’re two different things but also people not doing what you want isn’t rejection or abandonment; it’s just people doing their own thing.” You know Natalie, you just have a way with hitting this stuff out of the ball park. You just summed up my entire 52 years with one simple, clear sentence. It’s just people doing their own thing? I’m not disregarding , denying or dismissing the string of AC’s, EUM’s, greedy MM’s, and physically and emotionally abusive males I’ve been involved with but sometimes people can just be doing their own thing and it isn’t my father abandoning, rejecting, or not having enough time for me?
My ex MM didn’t reject or abandone me? He lied to me. His lies were about him? I’m not being rejected or abandoned?
Hmm, runner, your last question is a good one. Because I would have thought, yes, of course the MM abandons the OW. All the time. But the fundamental thing is how the OW is rejecting herself by putting her heart in the care of an abandoner. The OW is the one who truly knows her inner self, that small voice and her own heartbeat and needs to treasure it.
I do think it makes sense to say he isn’t rejecting YOU because the real you doesn’t want to futz around with a married guy; the real you wants love and support and honesty, but you never showed him the real you in that relationship, anyway. You weren’t showing YOU the real you. At that point you were rejecting the part of yourself that deserved constancy and cherishing.
I dunno. Seems almost too easy to chime in with a POV on other folks – when I’m the one who needs to read and reread Getting Out of Stuck.
Magnolia, I am printing out your words and taping them to my bathroom mirror and sending them to my smart phone so I can read them whenever I have a nostalgic moment (I’m two weeks NC today from the ex MM who I was with for six years and who I rejected, in the end). This so hit home for me: “The OW is rejecting herself by putting her heart in the care of an abandoner.” And these lines: “The real you doesn’t want to futz around with a married guy; the real you wants love and support and honesty, but you never showed him the real you in that relationship, anyway. You weren’t showing YOU the real you. At that point you were rejecting the part of yourself that deserved constancy and cherishing.” This is so the heart of the matter for me right now, keeping the focus on me and why I did that rejecting of myself. I am seeing that for me it goes back to deep childhood issues of having been taught to take care of everyone else’s needs (notably, my mother’s) first. I see the connection between waiting hours for my mom to pick me up after school when I was six, seven, eight, nine years old and waiting days, weeks, etc for the MM to decide to stop by when it was convenient for him (there are more examples, but I’ll leave it at that). The REAL me knows I deserve much better. That dysfunctional pattern runs deep, but I am glad that being aware is the first step on the road to another, better road.
AdrienneBytheSea – You did the right thing. Six years is a long time. Too long. Let it be. You can only know you deserve better by giving yourself better.
Totally agree with you runnergirl. My long line of Mr Unavailables with the occasional AC along with various negative experiences are not the same as when my father abandoned me. They are such hugely different things but I labelled them the same. Those experiences were painful but most of the stuff wasn’t *about* me but it was about a lot of dubious choices.
The MM didn’t ‘abandon’ you – you both never in it for him to abandon you so you were really going to experience ‘abandonment abandonment’. He abandoned the dream but to be fair, you can’t hold someone accountable to pie in the sky. He lied to you because he’s The Cheater – there is no such thing as an honest cheat because if there was, he’d have gone home the first time you shagged or it was on the horizon and said “Honey, just to let you know. I’m attracted to Runnergirl and I’m thinking I want to shag her”. He had to be *caught* and I doubt he’s told her the whole truth and nothing but the truth. He lied to keep you on side but he also lied because it was his nature and also because you were receptive – lies cannot take shape or grow without someone being receptive and denying the truth once it is apparent. Did he reject you? No. He rejected being an honest man in an honest relationship and for that, he did it to *both* of you.
Thanks Natalie. I’ve struggled with the childhood abandonment/rejection stuff and this is the first time I can see a difference between the past and the present. This is also the first time I’ve been able to distinguish between them, my father, and me. It has been all tangled in my mind. We are all separate people with separate issues. I’ve been internalizing their issues and throwing myself under the same rejection bus in order to avoid rejection.
“He lied to keep you on side but he also lied because it was his nature and also because you were receptive…” This is where I’ve been stuck. The amount of deception that is part of an affair is mind numbing when reality “He rejected being an honest man in an honest relationship and for that, he did it to *both* of you.”
You made me snort my coffee, again!
I needed to hear all this today because after reading this post I realised that I handed my power over to the ex MM. When we broke up (over the phone) in 2008 I said “Well I guess I have to take this rejection as a woman and get on with it.”
Nat, thanks for reminding me he rejected being an honest man in an honest relationship and he did it to both of us.
What I did was to set myself up for what I perceived as being rejected. I gave too much power to one person. It’s a good thing the power is back in-house and I’m working more and more on me.
Ladies… I need help. After starting a comment thread on here a little while ago about how I was having trouble finding men who were available but not too socially off-putting, I met a man last week who seemed to be available and quite nice, and we went on two great dates. We had discussed getting together yesterday but he said he might have a big project coming in and too much work. Then I heard nothing from him for three days, then heard from him yesterday just to say he did get the project, is swamped, and asking how my weekend was. I replied within a few hours with something chatty and flirtatious because I was trying to hide the fact that I was upset at the three day gap in communication and him not suggesting a different time to get together. And that was yesterday and I have not heard a thing from him although I know he checks his messages all the time.
Is there anything I can/should do? I know everything Nat says in this post is true but I can’t help getting hung up/invested way too soon! Is this guy a douche/trying to blow me off? Help! I feel totally incapable of handling these situations. They literally throw me into a panic attack, and yes I have been through a lot of therapy.
I don’t think you can really know if somebody is available after two dates, unless you came out and asked him if he was involved with anybody else or was casually dating.
But if you both agreed to some tentative plans and he didn’t call you until after the date of the plan, that’s bad form. In fact, I would consider it red flaggy.
You need more information though. Proceed with caution! If you get asked out by someone else or want to ask out somebody else, go for it. Don’t put all your eggs in this one.
Jennifer, I agree with Eve – keep your eyes and ears open on this one. Were these convos over text or on the phone? If I had a crazy big project come in, someone I’d only been out with a few times would probably be less of a prioity than the project, but personally I would call them to let them know what was happening, make sure they knew I was looking forward to getting together and give a definite timeframe when I’d be available for a date. I’d also be sure to keep in touch on the phone (minimal texting – if I like them, I want them to hear my voice and know for sure that I’m interested!). The ball is in his court, so all you have to do is see what he does, take notice of any code ambers/reds and act accordingly. Hope this helps!
Hi Jennifer. We talk on here about Red Flags. And in reading your post I see a whole host of them. Now dont get upset or take this the wrong way, because I say this with love. The Red Flags are coming from you. Your just not ready honey. Going into melt down about some guy not contacting you after 3 days? This is exactly what Nat talks about. We like to rant the about the AC in our lives but what we are unfortunatley unaware of is our own Tom Foolery. Self awareness comes over time and if I was feeling like this I would take that as I need to still do some work on myself. This type of response comes across as… please contact me to validate me…Any guy worth his salt will pick up on this and back away, and a guy who is AC will pick this up run with it. Now no-one on here has the physic ability to do anothers thinking. This is the problem, your wracking your brains about his thinking, trying to work out what someone elses thinking will put you on a one way train to Looneyville. This is a prime case of what alot of our problems are, if we just work out what he is thinking we can morph ourselves into what he wants, give him the right answers etc etc etc etc. The focus honey should be on your thinking, what do you think, what do you want, hell do you even really like this guy and after two dates what are your impressions. Is there anything you can do? In a word No, not about him anyway but you can do something about you. If you think he’s blowing you off, just shrug, you only met him twice. so what. He’s only one bloke and Im afraid it does’nt matter if he is blowing you off because unfortunatley not everyone is life is gonna like us, love us, fancy us, feel an obligation towards us….
If you feel totally of incapable of handling these situations, you have answered your own questions, you cant handle these situations. Your not full of your own self love, how can you date if you dont think your OK. If you think he’s full of crap and blowing you off, hes full of crap and blowing you off. Theres no right or wrong answer, its about what you feel. If it pans out he’s some Divine Entity and you blew him off so what it was’nt meant to be. xxxx
You are so right. Could someone please help me see how to love myself? Every time I think I’m making progress, and then something like this happens. I need help. Badly.
Could someone really spell it out for me? Not just “read through the site,” I need steps. Really.
Yeah, I get that, I need a new Road Map this ones a bit of the beaten track….
Jennifer, I’ll be interested to know how you handle your situation.
From my end it seems like a three day gap, after only two dates, is no big deal. How can anyone go from not knowing someone at all and having them in 0% of their days, to suddenly having them in 90% of their days, or even 100%? Seems like once a week or twice a week contact is a good starting pace.
That said, I recently posted about a guy who asked me out, dropped talking for weeks, asked me out again, and dropped conversation. He just asked me out for the third time, to which my roommate is like “that seems nice” even though she knows I’m beside myself trying to analyze the crap out of the situation so I can assure myself I will not be somehow duped and used.
I decided to invite a couple of friends to the same event he asked me to and said we’re going, join along if you like. He called tonight to say great! and do you want to do dinner after?
I’d said that the two weeks of no contact was a no-go for me. And here I am reconsidering.
I have been rereading Natalie’s posts on giving good men a hard time, keeping a feelings diary right from the start, and taking courage from the list of questions I will ask – mainly, do you have a girlfriend?
I wrote the post above about learning to take a risk of liking someone earlier today. I’m already looking at him and wondering if the reason I am not gaga is because he just doesn’t give me that AC thrill of fear: mind you, I can create it. I think: is it possible I could care if THIS person would eventually reject me?
Two weeks, three days … is it all subjective? All about our own personal boundary?
Hi Jennifer –
Yes you can! You CAN help over-investing – if I can do it, anyone can. But it does take a bit of effort: you have to control your imagination, focus on other things and stop over-thinking this one. You’re just excited, that’s all, because this one hasn’t been a jerk straight away … give him time!
Alternatively, give in to the fantasies about him being The One, and then have a huge laugh at yourself afterwards. Or, try imagining that you discover he has a huge on-line porn habit, or a mystery first wife, or a thing for anonymous sex with men …
These simple tried-and-tested techniques can really keep your feet on the ground.
If he doesn’t contact you within a week, I’d give him the flick, quite frankly. No one’s THAT busy that they can’t at least email you or call you quickly.
If he doesn’t call/contact, DON’T CHASE HIM, or scold him or anything – just leave it.
Grab this opportunity with both hands, Jennifer – seize this as your big chance to get off the merry-go-round of humiliation and retreat with dignity. This in turn makes it easier to go out with the next guy, and you’ll be less nervous next time.
Jennifer, you *have* to help yourself on being invested. This is too much, too soon and alarm bells are ringing! You are Fast Forwarding. It’s been two dates. Remember when you didn’t know him a matter of weeks ago? Go about your life, do your own thing, be a personally secure person. If he calls, he calls. If he doesn’t – NEXT! Who knows if he’s a douche but it’s too soon for you to pin your whole life on him. If he is a douche, it’ll be revealed pretty quickly. Oh and you’ve been on two dates – you’re behaving like you’re in a relationship.
Nat, I know you’re right but when I start freaking out and panicking when this happens, what do I DO? I know intellectually that what you say is true, but it always seems that in the moment, nobody I trust to talk to and help me is around and nothing I tell myself helps to take the pain away.
I think this over-investing problem will prevent me from ever finding any kind of personal happiness if not addressed, but I have so much trouble fixing it. When it happens, I can’t sleep or concentrate. Can you suggest anything? As I’ve said, I’ve been to loads of therapy and it feels a little better in the moment to talk to the therapist but at the end of the day I leave and go back to feeling lonely and lousy. To be honest, I generally avoid dating relationships of any kind because I fear this happening so deeply, but this guy asked me out so I figured I should try.
I can’t be the only one. Help.
Jennifer, if you’re experiencing a high level anxiety about going out on two dates and are unable to sleep and concentrate, it begs the question of why you would go out and date if you haven’t taken constructive measures to address the root cause of the anxiety? I don’t know what that is by just reading your comment but what I do know is that you’re veering between trying to run before you can walk or deciding “Shag it! I won’t walk at all.”
While there are some people who are anxious and realise that part of overcoming rejection is actually *taking* it and *dealing* with it and learning through each experience that they live to tell the tale, you’re not one of them. You’re alive, you’re kicking, no-one’s tarred and feathered you and I bet you don’t realise how great you are because you’re too busy being anxious.
The exceedingly high level of drama attached to this situation is unhealthy. It’s not because you are rejectionable why you cannot forge a relationship – it’s because with this level of anxiety after a week, it’s unsustainable whether it’s with Mr Available or Mr Unavailable.
You don’t need to avoid dating and relationships *forever* – you need to put 110% effort into finding the most appropriate support (I’m sure there are therapists that specifically deal with anxiety including cognitive behavioural therapists), taking a confidence class and learning techniques to gain some self control. No offence Jennifer, but chatting about your problems doesn’t sort them out – taking action does. It surprises me that with all of this therapy, not one person has given you constructive exercises and techniques for managing your anxiety!
What I don’t get a sense of here is self control. It’s like “Hey, there might be a fire.” Instead of thinking about what you can constructively do and how to access the reality of that fire and taking action, you do nothing and think about the possibility of there being a fire, how it will hurt, and how awful it will be and how you’re so terrible but never once think of a solution or do anything to constructively manage your anxiety.
The fact of the matter is, if there was possibility of a fire, you would use knowledge you already have to quickly think through the situation, check for smoke, heat, and even get the hell out. The fact that you have *that* much time to play with that you could lose sleep and concentration suggests that you are not responding to *real* external evidence of a ‘threat’ – you’re playing out your own internal drama.
If you don’t want to be lonely, if you don’t want to be lousy, stop being helpless and letting your mind run wild. Go to the gym and get on a treadmill when your mind goes into overdrive. Walk. Focus on doing things that need 100% attention. Make sure your day and your evening is full. Force yourself to choose something else to think about. Literally drag your thoughts from Exhibit A to whatever it is you’re supposed to be doing. Write out your thoughts to organise them. Keep a Feelings Diary. Join Meetup.com and force yourself to go to one outing a week so that you become used to meeting new people. Address your beliefs. Stop trying to take shortcuts. Start relying on YOU because just because someone isn’t around, doesn’t mean you can’t have a rational conversation with yourself.
I’m not a therapist Jennifer. I don’t ‘treat’ anything. I provide advice, commentary, tips, tools etc that can be of great benefit when you are ready to illuminate your life with answers, find solutions and take action.
In regards to what you can tell yourself. Stand in front of the mirror and say “Jennifer, it was just two fricking dates! TWO. I’ve known him a week! Whatever is or isn’t happening – I will be OK! It’s just two fricking dates. It’s just two fricking dates. It’s just two fricking dates.”
“Is it possible he’s found out ‘something’ about me? Er, how the hell could he – it’s just two fricking dates!”
“I’m scared that I’ve scared him off. Er, it’s just two fricking dates. I had a good time but jaysus, if it doesn’t progress, I’ll live. It’s just two fricking dates!”
“Go to the gym and get on a treadmill when your mind goes into overdrive. Walk. Focus on doing things that need 100% attention. Make sure your day and your evening is full. Force yourself to choose something else to think about. Literally drag your thoughts from Exhibit A to whatever it is you’re supposed to be doing. ”
Nat, that is truly excellent advice. I have GAD and felt that in my case medication wasn’t the answer. What you’ve described is just about EXACTLY what I do! Jennifer, I can tell you this works
Jennifer, getting a pet is also a great option if you have the time! Studies have shown that the simple act of petting a dog or cat can lower blood pressure. Pets also encourage you to get out and meet more people – dog parks are a lot of fun and filled with like-minded potential friends. A pet’s antics can also add a big dollop of good old uncomplicated fun to your life as well. I have a rescue bulldog and I can tell you that the unconditional love that pets give can be a great healer!
p.s. A lot of cute guys hang out at dog parks/will stop and pet a doggie on the street. Just sayin’
Jennifer,
I used to have the exact same problem. What helped me is simple:
I told the truth.
That means, I sat myself down, and I said the honest truth.
It hurt. A LOT!!!
The truth for me was, that no amount, of talking to therapists, thinking, praying, hoping, calling others about this intense anxiety issue would work, until I admitted that the anxiety was that I felt that I was not okay, that if this relationship ended (even a two-date-long “relationship”!) ended I would not be okay AT ALL. In fact, that it would be over for me, my last chance, no happiness at all. Because, I knew I was unloveable to the Nth degree and this man WAS MY LAST HOPE.
Honestly, the anxiety was so intense that I once got diarrhea, serious, intense, total body betrayal sickness – because he said he would call that evening and I had been waiting for a few hours and could not stand it. I flipped. This is with a guy who I had not even had a date with yet. (He’s not around anymore.)
So I suggest that therapists probably HAVE given you tools. You’ve just “forgotten” them. You probably HAVE read good books on the subject and gotten great advice. You will read the books and the advice, nod your head and when he does not call again you will
FLIP OUT GO NUTS HAVE AN ANXIETY MELTDOWN
because no amount of mental “talking to” you give yourself will do diddly-squat if you believe you are simple NOT OKAY without a man and THERE IS NO HOPE then you will act from that deepest belief every time.
So what I did was I played the “What if?” game. What if I ended up alone? What if I did not marry? What if I did not have children? What if he was not the one? Could I live, NOT HAVE TO BE HAPPY ABOUT IT, just live with it?
So I started imagining the very thing I feared so deeply. I just started to accept it as a possibility. NOTE: I did not have to like it, I just had to accept it as possible and start thinking of my future in terms of being alone and making the best of it.
What happened? At first, I panicked. Again. I got so ANGRY!!!!! I flipped out! And then I started to allow this new future, a little at time. I worked at this for a year or more. Instead of thinking, Oh when I met my man, I will (start saving, feel better, buy this or that, accomplish x dream)…I instead said, okay, what if I started now? Without a man?
This was not easy at first,…
This was not easy at first, but it got easier over time. Then, a funny thing happened. I started to feel more confident. A little at a time, because at least I was doing something proactively, even if it was just thinking about a future alone but with me at the helm, handling it as best I could.
So sometime later, without trying in the slightest, a guy walked in. I felt anxious, but when I did, I just told him. Straight out. And it soon passed. Then I started to feel in control of myself because since I had envisioned a life alone so much and worked at being okay with it, (not happy about it!) that when I thought this new guy did not treat me well, even for a little bit, I had no problem telling him he could hit the door. He developed respect for me, and I for him. Our best selves started to show up and a happy relationship developed.
So now, we are engaged, but here is the deal. If he were to seriously cross my boundaries, cheat on me, betray me, I would have no problem telling him to go, married or not. Because I know I CAN LIVE WITHOUT HIM. (Not that I’d be happy about it!)
So that makes living with him sweeter. Plus, because he knows he can’t get sloppy, lazy or screw with me, he doesn’t take that all too *human* tendency as a way out of a problem. Plus, he is a good guy, but good guys can be assholes too if they are dating a woman without boundaries. Some of his exes would attest to him not being so wonderful, I’m sure.
I hope this helps somewhat and give you a bit of hope.
I just want to clap my hands like a maniac! Thank you Blaise for sharing. You rock!
Natalie,
That means the world to me, thanks so much. I’ve been meaning to email you but I’ll just tell you here where everyone can see:
Without your blog, I firmly believe I would not be getting married next summer.
We will be together two years this winter and I still read every article you post and when anxiety, fear and pain tried to take over me and sabotage this relationship, I came here and I read. Over and over until the feelings passed. I cried and I read.
So to those of you who are thinking, like I did, that once you meet a man, it will all be better, think again. It does not get better because of him, it gets better because you keep facing the demons and doing your work and telling the truth.
And Natalie is the best truth-teller I know. Natalie, seriously, you got a friend in me and don’t you forget it.
When your famous, I’m gonna say, I knew her when….
*hugs!*
“So to those of you who are thinking, like I did, that once you meet a man, it will all be better, think again. It does not get better because of him, it gets better because you keep facing the demons and doing your work and telling the truth.”
Now THAT’s something to cut out and put on my mirror! Loved your story, Blaise, and thanks for laying it out step by step.
Pretty soon there’s going to be only a tiny space left on my bathroom mirror — just enough for me to see my smile. So many wise words to copy/paste and print out in big, bold, sassy letters.
Hi Blaise, I’m clapping my hands like a maniac too. Congratulations on your upcoming marriage and congratulations for being okay even it it doesn’t happen. Thanks so much for your comment. It adds so much to Natalie’s original post and adds to my insights regarding my fear of rejection and/or abandonment.
“…if you believe you are simple NOT OKAY without a man and THERE IS NO HOPE then you will act from that deepest belief every time.” I’ve probably been operating from this belief which has kept me hanging on way, way past the shelf life of the relationship and kept me getting married and/or involved with a string of EU’s/AC’s/MM’s. Thank you for articulating it. And thank you Natalie for assisting me to getting to the point where I can hear it. I’m certain my expensive therapists said it but I may have not been ready to hear it. I’m trying to think back but I think this past 8 months is the first time since I was 14 I’ve not had some man in my life and I’m 52! None of them were keepers, as best I can remember, but I hung on as though there were no tomorrow without them. While I cried a river of tears in the first 3 months after the end of the affair with the ex MM, the last 5 months have been difficult but I have cried less than ever.
“So what I did was I played the “What if?” game. What if I ended up alone? What if I did not marry? What if I did not have children? What if he was not the one? Could I live, NOT HAVE TO BE HAPPY ABOUT IT, just live with it?” I think I may have subconsciously started playing this “What if” game in the last 5 months. You know, I think I’ll be okay. I know I’ll be a ton better than being a mistress while he waits for his 18 year old kid to grow up and then for his grandkids to grow up!
It is so nice to hear that others cry while reading these articles. I cry because I know it is true and I don’t want it to be. He does not care about me. No matter what he says, if he cared about me he would not do something that I very clearly told him hurts my feelings. He’s going to continue to think he’s a nice guy. He’s going to convince himself that he did nothing wrong and it was “all my fault”. And although I’m crying as I type this…that is okay. It can be all my fault. I’ll take the blame and I’ll move on knowing that he is the only one that got the short end of the stick. He lost me, and I’m awesome.
Ah Blaise. I’m so happy for you and so inspired by your determination and sense of self. I remember when you got together with him (congratulationssssssssss on getting married!) and what I really connected with you on your story, not just in your comments here, but over the time you’ve commented on BR, is that you have made a very conscious decision to quit the relationship insanity, to fight your fears and get out of an uncomfortable comfort zone. I too could easily have killed my relationship with the boyf with my own drama but I actually specifically remember sitting myself down one day and saying ENOUGH. I also made a promise and stuck to it, which really in itself taught me commitment. I’ve also admired that you’re straight shooter, no chaser – my kinda person. You comment occasionally but when you do, you deliver enormous value and perspective. And thank you for your ongoing support. (((((((hugs))))))))
All right ladies, I am starting a feelings diary right now and will join a swimming club this week. I’m a little concerned about the responsibility of a pet as it seems I can barely take care of myself, but will give it some thought.
Blaise, your words give me hope. I get a little bit of company after such a long dry spell and I just think OH GOD THIS IS MY LAST CHANCE!!!! You are so right. If anyone else has anything to share that worked for them, please do.
Blaise – I am trying to do what you said, that is, envision myself alone forever, and honestly, it is super scary and awful. I mean, yes, I could earn a living, have a fulfilling career, buy a house if I wanted to, even adopt a child or something, but… no-one to love me? No-one to hold me? No-one to prioritize me above all others? If I’m honest, that doesn’t sound like much of a life. And I’m sure those of you who are in fulfilling relationships can attest to the fact that it is much better than being alone.
I’m not sure what the difference is between being able to live with it but not be happy about it and just not being able to live with it. I mean, I’m sure I could technically live as in survive, but it would be a kind of unfortunate existence. Am I wrong? What do you think?
Jennifer, I think that because you are focused on the tunnel vision of your own mindset and agenda, you’ve missed the point of what Blaise said. She looked her fear in the eye but if you’ve actually read her comment, she’s 1) learned to love herself 2) isn’t alone and 3) is in a mutual relationship. Application.
What I’m reluctant for you to do, is replicate what you say you do in therapy – pour out, feel bad, imagine the worst and do nothing – here in the comments. I’m all for introspection Jennifer but it’s time to ask yourself that if you want these things that badly, what are you going to do about it?
There’s no point trying to identify people who are ‘like’ you – every single person who engages in unavailable relationships and continues in it as a pattern has some level of anxiety issues to lesser or greater extents. It is ruminating on fears and unhealthy beliefs that creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. It’s important also to recognise that a significant portion of people who go through this will not even call it anxiety – they will call it life, what they know, passion, excitement, whatever. Mislabeling until they listen to themselves and look at their experiences.
I had such a high level of anxiety at one point that I 1) had a panic attack that took nearly 3 weeks to recover from the after effects 2) had another panic attack where I had a headache that lasted for 4 days leaving me barely able to function and 3) I struggled with an immune system disease sarcoidosis which certainly showed physical symptoms of all of my secret stewing and hatefulness. I should be on steroids for life and barely able to walk – I’m alive and kicking and in remission for over for 5 years. I have never been to therapy although I know many people that benefit from it – I stopped pitying myself, I stopped making excuses, and I faced my fears and DID something.
You need to love you before anyone else is going to love you. How, are you going to have someone hold you when you go out of your way to derail after two dates? You don’t prioritise you above all others so why on earth would someone else?
Do you know what doesn’t sound like much of a life to me? The one you’re *living*. Now. I suggest that instead of worrying about something that hasn’t happened yet that you focus on addressing what’s happening and your pattern. What are you going to DO about YOUR life Jennifer?
Nat
So true: “Do you know what doesn’t sound like much of a life to me? The one you’re *living*. ”
I’ve been single for about five years now (I’ve stopped counting) and am happier than I’ve ever been. Why? Cos I don’t worry about shite anymore:
Where shall I live? I bought a flat
What will I live on when I retire? I bought a flat and sorted out my pension
What does x, y, z think of me? I don’t care what people think of me anymore
Why am I always broke? I sorted out my finances and got a proper job
Why do I keep getting depression and anxiety? I saw a counsellor, read this blog, exercise and eat properly.
What if I’m alone forever? I take care of my friendships and family. I’m not alone, I just don’t have a boyfriend/husband.
It’s a combination of doing what’s in my control and letting the rest go or trusting that it will come to me in good time.
Jennifer, you can be single and happy. In fact, you have to be before you can meet someone decent. Otherwise, you try to make every man you meet into The One, whilst getting stressed and nervous about it, thereby putting him off and putting yourself off too. No decent man wants to be a woman’s guarantee against loneliness, he wants to be liked him on his own merits. You have to bring more to a relationship than fear and need. I’m sure you DO have a lot to offer but you have to know what it is and believe in it.
You’re putting the cart before the horse. I’ll repeat what’s been said. You don’t find a good relationship and then become happy. You become happy and THEN find a good relationship. Or maybe you won’t but at least it’s better than living a half-life of anxiety.
Amen Grace! I’ve been single for 7 yrs… wow I haven’t counted that out in a while and it seems verrrrrrrry long?! I spent 6 of them trying to get a few different guys to love and commit to me. The last one I’ve spent happier than I’ve ever been… and single. Once I kicked my EUM habit and got some self esteem (the master key to all this) it didn’t take long for me to realize that I actually have an AMAZING life. And being single can be great fun when you realize that you are a great person and that in reality you don’t need a guy to complete you… I’ve got my shit together. If anyone is going to get a relationship from me you better be damn well worth it cuz otherwise, life is good just the way it is!
Nat – great new pic. And when I read the word “rejection” on this post I just knew it would speak to me. I took EVERY single EUM as a HUGE rejection of me as a woman. I wasn’t pretty enough, I wasn’t tall enough, they want someone more passive, more girly, bigger boobs… I mean you name it, I thought those were the reasons. And I would beat myself to death over how my friends were all getting so lucky and finding husbands… and really no one ever fell in love with me. And that old saying “I knew I was going to marry him/her the minute I met them; I just knew”… yeah, that doesn’t help either. Seems like any old EUM could “just know” and turn into the prince right? Wrong. It was me. I didn’t like myself. I had negative beliefs that spiraled worse and worse after every EUM. Eventually I just plain thought I wasn’t good enough. Man, what a joke. In reality I was too good for any of those time wasters and the important thing is that I see it and feel it NOW. Life will forever be great as far as I’m concerned… be it single, married, divorced. It all comes down to how you feel about yourself and what you do to take control of your life and make it a happy one.
Carrie, Grace, CC, and Blaise,
That’s why I love this blog, Natalie’s post are brilliant and provide the best therapy I’ve ever had. Then, there are the wonderful comments which provide more brilliant insights. CC, I took every AC, EUM, and MM’s unavailabilty as a rejection of me as a woman. I wasn’t blah, blah, blah enough. Like you, I’m starting to realize they weren’t anywhere near what I thought I wanted, not that I really know yet. Wahoo for you Carrie. You comments nailed me. I’ve been unavailable my whole life and pursued EU’s like they held the brass ring to my happiness. Grace, I’ve been thinking about your comment all day: “You don’t find a good relationship and then become happy. You become happy and THEN find a good relationship.” Thank you. The brass ring to my happiness lies with me, NOT a “HIM”.
Thank you all for your uplifting and truly thought provoking comments. It is freaking amazing to hear about how happy, self-assured, self-loving folks with self-esteem think and act. You are all such an inspiration. Jennifer, I hope you are doing okay.
Natalie, your pic radiates love, respect, and happiness. Simply gorgeous from the inside.
very powerful words here. I can definitely confirm that you don’t hear this kind of stuff in many types of therapy. it’s also very encouraging to read about people who have overcome issues with anxiety (esp around relationships), who found the inner strength and resolve to stick with a plan of *action*. I’ve bookmarked many posts on BR, the last few + their comments have really struck a big nerve, along with re-reading the books. from my understanding, a big part of successful psychological treatment of anxiety/OCD/phobia is behavior modification, desensitization, cognitive therapy — and includes all kinds of relaxation & self-care exercises. I think that’s what I’ve basically giving myself by reading Baggage Reclaim for the past 4 months. BR is sort of “CBT” for EU
— changing negative thinking and distorted thoughts by objectively examining facts, which then changes emotions positively. it takes time to change the pathways in the brain, but it does work! I feel more hopeful now about overcoming my ‘rejection sensitivity’, dating anxiety, special EUM/AC magnet super-powers, etc than I have in 10-15 years. it’s so fantastic to have a forum to examine these issues which focuses on the BR principles.
last time I took an extended break (5 years) from dating, I thought I had it all figured it out. I didn’t even come close! Life had more lessons for me, apparently, to get me to my *higher ground*. great new portrait, btw!
I have thought over what everyone has said and have realized that whether or not someone is a jerk/right for me will not necessarily show itself right away, and that it’s always necessary to give the dating experience some time to play out. No reason to get all upset right at the beginning. Some people are great at the beginning and then show their true colours, and some people take a little time to warm up to and then they’re great. No reason to get all bent out of shape about it; just when someone shows their true colours, react appropriately and don’t get so upset. If someone I go out with a bunch of times ends up being a jerk or unavailable or whatever, so be it. It doesn’t mean I was taken advantage of, because I didn’t end up in a long drawn-out situation with him, thank goodness! I would just have stuck around long enough to do my research and then get out of there once I knew what I had to know.
As Blaise said, it was hard when she first thought about being alone, and that is the reaction I had as well – that my mindset would have to completely change. Now that I have thought a little more about it, I realize that there are guys who will be right for me in the long run, as long as I learn to manage my anxiety and be at ease with who I am. I am generally actually fine after a few days, which I guess means NML’s anxiety was probably quite a lot worse than mine is. I basically just need to work on the initial gut reaction I have to dates that may/may not have gone badly, which is always very negative. I am working on it by keeping a feelings diary and giving myself pep talks when I get freaked out over the idea of being alone. Hopefully that is a start at least.
I have also been thinking today that the best way to think about relationships with men is the same way I think about relationships with women. Some women are really nice and friendly for a while but turn out to be unavailable as friends (i.e., they’re never free to meet up, never return calls, maybe only talk about themselves and never listen, etc.). Then I sometimes hear from them when it suits them, and I usually don’t go out of my way to make time for them. This is all fine, and I don’t tend to get upset about it.
On the other hand, some women who I meet turn out to be very available, and we form intimate friendships in which we each know the other person is there for us…
… and that is fine too! But it is not possible to know upon the first meeting, or the second, third, or fourth! It’s something that comes out with time and has to play out. No need to pursue a friendship for months if it isn’t working, but give it a chance to reveal whether it is genuine. There is no rush when someone is new in your life. And just as there will always be available friends, there will always be available men. It just takes some patience to find out who they are.
I see a lot of comments on here that don’t get responded to at length, I suppose because they aren’t as nuts or whiny as mine, but that reflect a lot of sadness and despair. I wanted to suggest this way of thinking (in terms of platonic friendship) because it has helped me a lot in the past few days. There are many people on here who overcame anxiety and other issues a relatively long time ago, including NML and Blaise, and they have great insight, but I find it can be useful to hear from someone who figured out something that helped get them through the immediate moment, because that is the first step. Though I am fortunate never to have suffered from a serious illness, there was a time in my life when I lost someone close to me, and though I remember that I was sad, at this later date the climactic moment of pain and desperation is hard to recall in its live form and I might tell someone who was feeling it to do something that may not have been possible in that particular moment. I suspect that anxiety, once overcome, can be similar. There is no need to be hard on yourself if you stress out over the dating process, just realize that relationships take time to reveal what they are and there is no rush.
Sorry for the long post – now that I had done some constructive thinking, I hoped to say something constructive.
Hi everyone,
great post Natalie – and great new pic. You look fab! It’s hard I think not to feel rejected when someone (or something) you care about turns you down. I have found it hard in the entrenched ex EUM relationship not to internalise what was effectively years and years of repeated ‘rejection’. The more rejection I suffered the less I expected to get from the relationship and more and more every crumb from him was like a feast in the desert for me (to quote Nat’s expression). I am convinced now that the key is to have strong self esteem and the ability to validate yourself. When I got that I pretty much had what I needed to solve my problem. I have more self confidence now than I’ve had for years – partly cos it’s no longer being relentlessly depleted and chipped away at!
I agree with Grace and CC and would say to Jennifer that a single woman is not half a person! And to see yourself as half a person, or a fraction of a person, waiting to be made into a whole one by a man is the crux of your problem I think, Jennifer – apart from anything else that kind of neediness is not attractive – and it’s not healthy; it’s like waiting for an opportunity to live your live vicariously through someone else – a man. Also, as Grace said, we need to bring something more to the table than an anxiety riddled desperation to bag a man so that our life can start. I also agree in that a man wants a woman who is already happy and fulfilled and confident, not one who is waiting for him to make her happy and fulfilled – that’s just giving him a big job to do and dumping a huge responsibility on to him. We are each of us a whole person in our own right and should not put ourselves and our lives on hold anxiously waiting for another human being to come along and make our life happen. It takes courage to take charge of your own life but it’s essential to get that courage or we run the risk of ending up in a codependent dysfunctional and even abusive situation with a man whom you are unable to leave because you can’t do your own life on your own. My mother always tells us, her children, that we are not responsible for anyone else’s happiness; a person’s happiness must come from within themselves and that we should never look to another person to *make* us happy.
@ Jennifer. Your not whiny or nuts at all. xx I know exactly what you mean, there are times when I need help. It confuses me when I read stuff that says, for example…unhealthy behaviours…then goes on without explaining what unhealthy behaviors are. The thing is I don’t know what unhealthy behaviors are because they are normal to me. Its hard to figure summit out when you don’t have a clue what your trying to figure out. If what you’re doing is normal to you…IE playing hard to get because from the get go that’s what Ive been told and shown what to do, then they get bored, then you go after them, and then it all starts again. how the hell do I know this is wrong. Its OK telling me its wrong, but not giving me any clear idea on how to change it. Learning to love myself is new. Ive only ever loved myself to look good for some one else. On my own, for myself I can barely get in the shower wash then dry my hair, let alone put make Its hard to know where to start. This stuff frys my brain at times to. I read your posts and I can absolutely understand the desperation. Please someone tell me what I’m doing that’s so bad. Ive been working and reading loads on Co-dependency blah blah and all NML stuff but it fries my mind. I booked into a see a Relate counsellor this week. I told her all about my work she nodded and said this OK, you need a new Road Map. You have all this stuff but now you need help putting all together. THANK GOD. Help is now here.
Nicola, I’m ‘bemused’ by the tone and content of your comment. Who has said what to you and where did you read this stuff? Are you referring to this site, commenters on this blog, a different site, people in the real world? Please clarify.
hey Jennifer. I think I understand where you’re coming from. I’ve never worked harder than last 12+ months to resolve relationship issues. I haven’t put myself “out there” again. reading your posts actually got me thinking about what it would be like. seeing things now w/much more clarity, would I be able to try dating w/o having that anxiety reaction? I honestly don’t know. when will I be so strong in self-esteem, -love, etc., and so free of my *Baggage* that I no longer need worry about anxiety if a guy doesn’t call? it took a lifetime to get here, not sure how pliable my brain is, despite 100% commitment now to changing the way it works. I guess I won’t know until the opportunity arises. I haven’t met or clicked w/age-appropriate men in the course of daily life for years, tried online dating, was never crazy about it. this last EUM was an old friend from college, 20+ yrs ago. we started truly as friends on facebook. one thing led to another, it was a big pursuit, for almost a year he was a total Prince. I actually was open w/him about anxiety issue, he always tried to help me feel OK. he won my trust. then overnight, he bailed and turned into a major Frog. which didn’t do great things for my already fragile heart.
I commend you for trying, being honest, and reaching out. I’m thinking just the act of consistently reading BR, the books, the NC emails, etc, is one of the best things to overcome the problem. I kept many journals/blogs/video-diary over the past year, b/c I was determined to get to the bottom of it this time. 6 months ago at the beginning of NC, there were many difficult times. at the worst moments, I came here to read, and usually within 15-20 minutes I’d feel way better.
without question, there are those who do need more aggressive help to get to a level where they can get the full benefit of everything here. I guess it’s important for each person to figure out what they need to get them to the healthiest possible place.
Blaise, that was truly awesome
Congratulations on your upcoming wedding and I wish you many happy and beautiful years together!!
I know that level of anxiety and panic, even from just a few dates. I started noticing it in early 30′s, after several painful heartbreaks in 20′s. I named it “PTBD”, post-traumatic-breakup-disorder. I too have tried to address it in therapy for many years, without success. it’s the reason I pretty much stopped dating at 40, I just could not handle putting myself out there. and… here I am at 46, that special someone did not come along. one of the hardest parts of it, is (for me) totally knowing on a rational level that it makes absolutely no sense to react that way, but not being able to control the anxiety. I really do feel that reading BR and NML’s books have made a huge difference in starting to change the underlying beliefs, more than anything else I’ve come across. I can’t imagine going on a date with someone right now. hopefully that will change, sooner rather than later.
Anoosh, thank you for helping me see that I am not alone. Has anyone else been through this, and has anything helped?
Jennifer, I have, which is why I said what I said.
I have had huge probs with anxiety; I probably always will have a degree of it. And of course it can all come down to where you are in your menstrual cycle as well, and also if you are getting older and feeling that clock ticking. It ain’t just in your head, girl.
The things that help me are:
1) TIME – the simple passage of time that you can’t fast-forward, and this is the hardest one to accept, so I’ve put it first on the list!
2) BE KIND TO YOURSELF. You are putting too much pressure on yourself and it’s taking the joy out of things. Nat is completely right; there are root causes here, possibly outside your relationships zone. Find them and start dealing with them, but in a kind way. Give yourself the kind of mothering perhaps you never had as a child. Be the kind of best friend you have always wanted.
The other things that help are the stuff you’ve planned already:
1) join a swimming club: fantastic idea. Get those endorphins going and start feeling good for a change!
2) volunteer for something. Anything. I find this really gets me out of my own head and my own problems, and I can think about other people.
3) Forget all about blokes for a few minutes – and when you’ve cleared your head, make a bucket list: all the stuff you’ve ever wanted to do, and haven’t yet done. [Hint: don't put 'get married' on this list - very counter-productive]. This is just for you – not the things people have told you that you should do; the things that YOU genuinely want to do.
I did this recently, and I went and learned how to load and shoot a handgun. I overcame my fears, had a blazing good time, ended up burning through 100 rounds of live ammo, and flirted with the insanely chatty middle-aged chap who worked there.
Now when I get miserable, I go back to that moment, and in fact I find myself looking forward to my next session, when I’ll have a go at using a rifle …
Next, I am going to ask for a 30 minute flight in a Tiger Moth biplane for my 42nd birthday. It costs around $250 but I know enough people to get them all to chip in.
Chocks away! Don’t let your fears stop you from having a good time. A happy Jennifer is a sexy and attractive and confident Jennifer, so get happy first and then see what happens.
“I’m not sure what the difference is between being able to live with it but not be happy about it and just not being able to live with it. I mean, I’m sure I could technically live as in survive, but it would be a kind of unfortunate existence. ”
I think that most woman crave for love…but there is a difference between needing love in your life and wanting love. When you need someone, you depend on them to help you feel fulfilled. In other words, you are solely relying on them for you to be happy. And this will not attract the kind of love you want.
However, when you WANT love, you would like it in your life, but you wouldn’t solely depend on love to complete you. I think it’s a matter of your perspective in life. I also think you have a much better shot of ATTRACTING love when you’re in this mindset. Also, the past and future are just illusions. Focus on right now and because all you DO have is … right now:)
Nicola, you sound awesome and I hope you see that in yourself!
I guess with me, the thought of my ex being a tosser made me feel worse for spending so long with him. Our meeting showed me he’s not a tosser really, he just hasn’t got anything to offer of any real substance (no pun intended!). I’m certainly not going to feel bad for not choosing to live a half life and wondering what I could be missing out on.
Flip-flops? Really?! The words ‘nail’ and ‘coffin’ spring to mind! Live your life girl! Don’t be defined by a chemically enhanced, flip-flop wearing half-man.
And HURRAH for your achievements. Xx
Thanks Sarah,
It comes to a point that you have to start laughing at your own exploits. When I read my journal, honestly I go into hysterics…because its like…SAY WHAT? Christ alive did I really put up with that? Its great to be back to who I am, a place where I can totally LOL at this AC. Ive been living a half life for over 4 years. I love this site, I know I should’nt lol but sometimes when I read the exploits of some of these blokes we tend to get involved with it does make me lol. I promise anyone out there you will get through this and see the funny side at some point. Sending you all love because believe me the Sun does begin to shine at some point. xxxxx
“The two easiest ways to avoid rejection in relationships – don’t have any relationships or get involved with someone who offers the least likely prospect of commitment or a relationship – it’s ‘safe rejection’ but both still wind up being self-rejection.”
So so true. I’ve spent a lot of my dating life avoiding serious relationships, afraid of jumping into relationships with quality men out of a fear of getting hurt or humiliated. In a strange way, I always felt safer with less than trustworthy men because at least I knew what to expect from them. Even though it hurts when one of them disappointed me, if I’m being honest with myself, I could say that most of the time I could see it coming. But it would have hurt me far more if I actually trusted them and got hurt. In the end it all hurts, but it’s better the devil you know I guess…
But even when I had a good man on my hands, I was always waiting for the other shoe to drop, always waiting for their “true” colors to finally show. Eventually I would realize that the bad side I had been waiting for did not exist, but by then I had alienated them so badly that they then felt rejected by me. Realizing how horrible I was being to the good ones, I was caught between not wanting to deal with the losers and wanting to be with the good ones, but not feeling as though I deserved them. So instead of being hurt or hurting others, I just preferred to be alone as I thought that would forever be my fate. As sad as it is to say, subconsciously I don’t think I believed that men were trustworthy. 25 years of negative thoughts were in serious need of reprogramming. Having an inconsistent mostly absentee, deadbeat father taught me that men were not trustworthy, and the ones that were I didn’t feel like I deserved, so that’s the way I viewed men and my relation to them.
An experience with one man in particular finally gave me the epiphany that I needed. I let him jerk me around for a few years, excusing his poor behavior. But one day he crossed the line and no matter how hard I tried, I could not find any excuse in my brain that would justify how he treated me and I just snapped on him. But if I was being honest, he was always that person. He was never going to be able to have the relationship that I wanted. It was then that I realized this: I deserved more than I was allowing myself to have, I had to do better by myself to appreciate myself so I would be capable of appreciating the good things when they do come my way. I think once we realize that we deserve more and that we get to determine the reach of our own happiness, we figure out that relationships with incapable people are really just a waste of our time.
@ Jennifer…again.
I forgot to mention that, Ive seen alot of Assclownery behaviour in my time and been complicit in it. But thinking about Date Man further….saying he has stuff on etc, is a prime example of a guy setting the Status Quo. Now you have choices here Jennifer A) accept that he has lot on etc see it for what it is Setting the Status Quo. B)hear that he has alot on, not compute it, think awww the poor souls got alot on he just needs my understanding, maybe I should sit here wringing my hands hoping Im worth it, if we I hook up maybe that will help etc etc…and here we go around the merry go round. There will possibly be always something on! Make a choice, hopefully the right choice babe, your questioning your gut. But make sure the your one doing the rejecting. Your thoughts ladies.
Thanks Nicola, I really think you are quite right. And I really hope you are rid of drug addict loser man once and for all.
Lia
Actually, being hurt by a trustworthy person hurts less. They don’t jerk you around, they don’t blow hot and cold, they don’t lie to you, they don’t insult you, hit you, cheat on you etc. They will tell you no in a fairly straightforward manner then leave you alone. It hurts a bit (maybe a few days/weeks/possibly a few months). With some of my breakups, I only cried for about a week. It’s nothing like the ding-a-ling, jerking around, now he’s here now he’s gone, booty call downgrade for months/years of a man who doesn’t know his behind from his elbow.
That’s my experience anway
Booty call downgrade…that’s classic
You’re right, when I’ve been “hurt” by a trustworthy person, it doesn’t really feel all that painful. But I always feared that it would be more painful, it took me actually engaging in relationships with them for me to figure that out. It feels great when you’re dealing with someone who actually holds their self accountable and actually cares about your feelings.
Lia, what you’ve described is a classic example of unavailable relationships, the beliefs, and the self-fulfilling prophecy. By losing the limited beliefs which have you having limited relationships with limited men so that you can limit the vulnerability, you open up a whole new world.
Lia,
Your comment really struck a chord. My EUW told me about all the bad guys she dated (the guy that held held her down when he was angry, the cokehead who tried to get her to use drugs, the cheating bad boy). Because of those experiences I thought she would value me. Wrong! I wasn’t the first nice guy she confused and alienated, and I won’t be the last. It is up to the EU to break the cycle or not; there is nothing I can do about it.
My heart hurt a little when I read your comment, as I know that I’ve left a good number of men in my past confused and/or frustrated, and hurt. I’ve run into a few of them afterwards, and I can tell you that I felt extremely embarrassed by the way that I had treated them and it was hard to face them, but I also operate with a conscience. If this woman that you speak of does too, or ever gains one, she’ll realize what she did to you too. But no, there is nothing that you could have done to change what happened, she was not in a position to where she could value anything you had to offer. She more than likely didn’t value herself enough to realize that she deserved any of it. So glad you moved on…
Lia, you have described me to a T!. I’ve known this on a rational level for years but feeling worthy is a major struggle – since I was tortured by a psychopathic mother and not protected by my father for my entire childhood, I don’t have much hope of ever gaining the self-love I need. (I appreciate all the fantastic advice that people/therapists/etc. have to give, but with Complex PTSD it mostly useless). I have just stopped dating the less-thens, that’s all I can do for now. Thanks for sharing with so much honesty and succinctly describing the low self-esteem dating game we both play
.
You know, one of my favorite movies, even as an adult, is Disney’s The Lion King. And my favorite part is actually this scene in which Mufasa manifests from the clouds and talks to Simba. Mufasa tells Simba: “You are more than what you have become… Remember who you are”. Leave it to me to learn a life lesson from a Disney movie LOL, but one day I was watching it, and those words literally sent chills through my body, it was like they were meant for me. I feel like a lot of my dating life was spent settling for less, just barely getting by. It didn’t matter how many people told me before, I had to learn the lesson on my own to figure out that I owed myself more than what I was allowing myself to have. And not unlike the lion young in the movie, I realized that I had been in fear of facing myself and my past, but inadvertently I was holding myself in it. I needed to deal with the hurt and pain from the past in order to get out of life what I truly wanted. No matter how I lived my life, I could never run away from that little voice in the back of my head that kept telling me that. The difference between now and then is that I hear it loud and clear. I’ve never been very good at lying to myself, I can’t run away from who I am, and I know that I am a person who wants and deserves to be loved. It just took a little while for me to realize that…It is my hope that you’ll continue to seek out self love as well, every day is a work in progress, don’t forget that. And don’t give up, I have hope for you.
Very insightful post! (as usual) Especially the part about how rejection and abandonment are so often confused, and not everything is about us. I learned this lesson hard and early, and as awful as it was at the time, I’m glad I did. As a teenager I didn’t feel very attractive, but I soon realized that some guys did like my unconventional look and personality. So at some point I decided that it’s okay if not everyone likes me, because I know that some do. And I don’t need every guy- I just need one!
“As a teenager I didn’t feel very attractive, but I soon realized that some guys did like my unconventional look and personality. So at some point I decided that it’s okay if not everyone likes me, because I know that some do. And I don’t need every guy- I just need one!” very well said!
Also realized today I feel rejected pretty damn easily. I had a sort-of interview with someone today who likes me so much she basically just brought me in to tell me how much she’d pay me to do some work for her; I didn’t have to show her a CV or portfolio or anything. I said a couple of things that I felt embarrassed myself and so I STILL left that meeting feeling like a stupid dufus.
I also recently was called at home and handed the biggest review of my career: new book of a world famous guy. I lasted about four hours before I was like: is he giving it to me because I cost less than big name reviewers??
And to make it a nice set of three: I’m being considered for a job at a small local university. I busted my ass for the interview. Now that they want me, I’m all like: man, aren’t I better than a small university?
Reject myself much? Argh!!! Talk about tying my own sense of valuation/rejection of myself to other people’s valuation of me. Maybe I’m an N.
Mainly of course I am happy about these developments and attribute them to the assertiveness I’m developing along with self-esteem.
Nonetheless, this week’s mantra has been: just because they aren’t rejecting me, and in fact are welcoming my advances, does not mean they are stupid / small potatoes / slumming.
Mag, Mag, Mag, I’m shaking my head here. You’ve achieved so much, don’t doubt it! It’s so true – never mind the men making us feel bad, we do it to ourselves.
Hi there grace, Natalie and all:
This has been a great post for helping me notice self-sabotaging habits. As I wrote the story about the childhood experiences, I could feel the story itself “getting tired.” Something about telling it to justify my anxiety isn’t working anymore. My history of having to overcome their old messages is true, but – it’s very strange – as I begin to genuinely overcome them, the story of their hold on me stops being ‘true.’ I can’t blame current events on that old hurdle. Now it’s a habit to overcome. I appreciate Natalie framing it in terms of my identity. It’s quite disorienting, but exciting, to be breaking out of the very stories that have been my identity.
Same with the self-deprecating stuff around my achievements. Again, writing them out here – for what? – fishing for support? I did have those thoughts that cut into my moment, but … it also felt like it wasn’t working; and I felt manipulative, almost, reading Grace’s response (thank you, Grace). When my advisor responded lukewarmly to my news of the review, both myself and my friend remarked on the inappropriateness.
I thought, huh, THAT is what I have been doing to myself all my life: being all *meh, whatever* about the good parts of me and others’ votes of confidence.
Self-indifference can be a sneaky form of self-rejection.
I have put myself down to try to control people’s perceived hostility, secretly feeling superior and deserving of praise. Lately I feel freer to achieve “in front of people”. Freer to care about my goals, to totally eff up in front of people, and to let go of soliciting support and attention through poses of victimhood.
It feels like I risk a lot of hate, jealousy and resentment coming my way if I start to identify with success. It’s the classic move of the woman who calls herself stupid before anyone else does. But – as this post reminds – I can’t keep rejecting myself just to avoid others’ rejection. If I do, I’m still getting rejected.
Onward!!
I like that “…I cant keep rejecting myself to avoid others rejection. If I do, Im still being rejected..” that really struck a nerve. I do this all the time, hence why Im on lock down for a year to work out some MY AC behaviour. I feel like a toddler learning how to live from scratch.
A-mazing. You are just amazing. It’s like you know me and this could not have come at a more perfect time… There was I, wallowing in my own self pity because I felt I wasn’t good enough, even after 4 months broken up, and when I know he’s already dating someone else ‘cooler, fitter and who’s more into sports’.
Thank you for the wake up call. It’s time to splash water on my face, to get a grip and to start looking out for number one.
Katherine, New Zealand
“Thank you for the wake up call. It’s time to splash water on my face, to get a grip and to start looking out for number one. ” Yay Katherine! Good for you!
@ Jennifer
How do you suss a guy is available after 2 dates ??
Way too invested !!!
Too busy / swamped at work ….no one is ” too busy ” to make room in their lives for things or people that are important.
It sounds like a brush off ….but don’t sweat the small stuff ….it was 2 dates !
Take care.
I think the key here is though that it’s not about being ‘important’ – they’ve just met. I’ll put it this way – Jennifer, you’ll know if it’s a brush off if he doesn’t follow up with making a date in the next few days up to a week after the last date. Don’t sit around waiting for the call and get on with your life!
Brilliant! I think this post, along with the ones about self esteem and jedi mind tricks, have had a huge effect on me.
Being told no is a part of life and not a rejection. People not doing what you want is just them doing their own thing. The control freak in me really needs to hear this!
Also, i think my main fear in my current relationship is of rejection. There is absolutely no evidence of this and things are great with the boyfriend, it’s just my own imagination running riot. Articles like this show me that i need to chill out and stop trying to make people think and do as i want them to. I would hate it if someone constantly berated me for doing my own thing.
Minky, fear means it’s not happening. If it was, you’d be doing something about it. Exhale and enjoy your relationship. PS You are on my very long list of mails. I will try to do it before I head off next week!
Minks, I am with you. But also remember that you’ve dealt with rejection before, and from a trickster, no less, and you got through. If new guy rejected you or decided for whatever reason to end things – very unlikely and essentially not worth thinking about – then it wouldn’t be a pull-the-rug thing. In any case, this guy sounds solid – so enjoy the relationship, and give him the right to do his thing (including ending it), just as you have the same rights. (I am saying this to me too!)
Too true Elle. My bloke is the guy who (years ago) ended a mutally agreed casual-fling because he realised the girl felt more strongly than he did. No flip-flapping, no yoyo-ing – a clean break. And I am the woman who has survived a control freak AC and a using twat of an EUM – and i absolutely loved being single. I think things will be fine
.
It has been a couple of days since i read this article and i can honestly say the internal change has been miraculous. I am so much better at defining ‘doing own thing’ behaviour with ‘being inconsiderate’, not just with my boyfriend but with friends, and partners of friends, alike. I just advised a good friend whose bloke has been playing a new computer game for a couple of days (men!), while being in touch and still arranging to meet up, that she should chill out and not perceive it as a rejection. Me! Telling people to chill out! Me! Who would have though!?
This is just what i needed to read Natalie, having in the same week had a new guy go quiet on me after two really good dates, and had my ex boyfriend (‘love of my life?) contact me for some help with his teenage daughter, only for the contact to turn into a discussion about ‘us’ (i still had unanswered questions over a year later) and for him to confirm that he had loved me but ‘not enough’ and didn’t want the ‘family life’ with me! Well I was feeling very very rejected and sorry for myself! I look at both these guys with fresh eyes today, and see similar traits of ‘Mr. unavailable’…thanks for the words of wisdom as always and dragging me back into the real world xx
elsiewondercat (love the name) – Don’t take any more of his calls. You’re not his armchair psychologist or his girlfriend. Piss taker!
My recent ex was unavailable. The way he acted wouldn’t sit well with any available women. I broke it off with him. What anoys me about it was that he speed things up in the beginning when I was taking it slow. It felt a little uncomfortable but I went along to see before breaking it off. I know I d the right thing. Our closure conversation consisted of him admitting his behavior displayed his unavailability but yet he still liked me and was serious. I said to him that he wasn’t because of his actions. And I asked him to admit he wasn’t feeling me In the same way. Now when I asked that I totally would of accepted him saying he wasn’t available for the type of commitment I wanted and be done he said nothing. this really Bugs me and I’ve stepped up mountains in terms of dealing with negative stiff since but every now an then that nagging thought says why couldn’t he just admit it? Even my ex eum can. My conclusion is that he
Can’t be honest with him self he ain’t going to be honest with Me.
NK, let me give you a piece of advice that will hopefully spare you many more man hours – You see how many people go before the courts each and every day around the world, accused of stuff that are found guilty and yet they never actually out and out say the words and admit what they’ve done? Have you watched Judge Judy recently?
Stop trying to force him to say what he doesn’t want to say. You’re a grown woman that can figure it out for yourself – you already have. You don’t need him to validate the fact that he’s unavailable. It’s like going to a man that beats you and saying ‘Admit that you’re an abusive asshole’. He-llo! You already know he’s unavailable, the decision is already made. If he wants to live in LaLa Land telling himself whatever he wants to, that’s his prerogative. You’re not the boss of him. You can’t open up his brain and remove any association with you or force in a program that says “Greetings commander! Must go to NK right now and tell her that I’m unavailable”. Let it go!
I LOVE ‘Judge Judy’; it’s so therapeutic. Anyone who thinks a relationship will solve all their problems should watch that show and see just how many women have gotten themselves screwed over by shitheels.
My other favourite program is ‘Four Weddings’, which we have in Australia – don’t know if you have a UK or US equivalent? Four couples (translation – four insanely competitive Bridezillas) compete to see who can have the ‘best’ wedding. It’s hysterically trashy, and it really helps to cure my wedding/marriage blues.
What a brilliant article.
I recently ended a relationship that was just absolutely bonkers … rejection is what kept me in it lot longer than I should have. I viewed his regular rejections of me as a challenge almost …. he once viewed me as interesting, desirable, compelling and would contact me frequently by any means possible when we weren’t together (at the beginning) … then he changed … he seemed miserable in my presence, avoidant, overly critical of my every move and would reject my affections frequently (sometimes even during!!! :O). I stayed in the relationship because I wanted the ‘old’ him back. I was convinced that somehow I was doing something wrong to cause the change and he convinced me I was doing something wrong (I suffer from clinical depression, he told me it was bringing him down and told me his behavior change was because of this, called things like a freak or psycho). It eroded my confidence and made me feel ashamed of my illness. It was holding me back from recovery.
Eventually I just realized that by allowing him to treat me like that and to allow his frequent rejections of me I was rejecting myself … I just was trying to avoid the inevitable.
I also realize now that there’s nothing I can do to make someone change their personality and the way they relate to people.
You can’t make someone into an AC or EUM.
Extracting onself against one’s own feelings is extremely difficult. I think they call this ‘being clingy’ in dating parlance…
I’m going on a 1st date tonight with a man I’ve been communicating with from a dating website. We have emailed, and have had a few telephone conversations – of which, I HAVE NOTED A COUPLE Defensive/Odd remarks from him. We are taking separate cars and going to a restaurant -all very safe., and I am actually looking forward to this date.
I will pay attention while on this date, and not be fooled by his accomplishments – he is an author and published several books, he is a Ph.D., has travelled, etc. I will remember that I am a very good and successful woman, and will not have to ‘settle for’ or ‘fix up’ any new person that I allow into my life. AND that communication is important to me and I wont waste time with an under-par communicator!…. which is probably at least CODE AMBER for other things lurking.
I will be ready to Reject Him… politely and quickly, and might know after this very first date whether I will proceed! Thanks Natalie!
BRILLIANT, AngelFace – atta girl!
When someone likes me or sees potential in me, I feel like I am on thin ice. Yet one someone sees me as flawed I am super, super affected and internalize it. I am easily derailed. I guess at the core is my own belief I am flawed. I was humiliated as a child too, and although I know it was a childhood experience, I still revert to the child being humiliated when I feel rejected as an adult. I can’t believe people might see something else in me, something good. When I get complimented, I always tsk tsk it and put myself down, or down play it as a response because I am uncomfortable, instead of just smiling and saying thank you. I feel rejected very easily, I think because I expect it on some level. Ironically, I am accomplished in my life, feel capable, and have achieved things in my life that people call very admirable. I still seek approval and crump when I don’t get it. The approval I do get, I question.
Rejection is painful and trying to be ahead of it all the time by being unavailable, hooking up with unavailables, or by downplaying the interest of a potentially available doesn’t avoid it. You guarantee it. My last guy (if honest, many of my ex’s) told me I was not very expressive and didn’t make him feel like I wanted him around. I keep my feelings on a leash until I feel rejected, then the emotion pours out of my like hot lava. I am not good at showing someone I care about them (risking rejection?) but am good at telling them how they disappointed me (rejecting them). The last guy was no prince, but I am able to look at my own behavior pattern of self protection and how being so guarded doesn’t prevent rejection and in some cases causes it. People give up you if they have to prove themselves over and over again because you don’t believe that they can care about you. Shady people continue to disappoint you and it becomes unhealthy validation when they don’t give up on you, but they don’t actually step up to the plate either. Not expecting respect or love when you approach situations and relationships is expecting rejection. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy and rejecting your own value in life. I do this, in almost every relationship.
Preach! LOL, but seriously these thoughts are so familiar it’s almost scary! Gotten a lot better at it, but I’ve always had a hard time accepting compliments and have a tendency to strive towards perfection in order to avoid criticism…thought I was just keeping myself humble but what I was really doing was underestimating myself and holding myself to unrealistic expectations at the same time…but the flip side to that is that I used to seldom give out compliments but I wouldn’t criticize others unless I absolutely had to, and even then I would mince words…
I have had conversations with exes that told me that they felt as though I was indifferent to them when in actuality I was quite fond of them. But I never expressed myself to them, not positively at least. At the time I didn’t realize it, but these people honestly never knew that I genuinely cared for them, I might not have been in love with them, but they definitely had pieces of my heart…I was overprotective of my heart with people who I should have trusted it with. And those who I couldn’t trust I kept around because they fulfilled beliefs that I held about myself…
“The last guy was no prince, but I am able to look at my own behavior pattern of self protection and how being so guarded doesn’t prevent rejection and in some cases causes it. People give up you if they have to prove themselves over and over again because you don’t believe that they can care about you.” That is so true, eventually it becomes a drain, especially if you know that you or that person has the actions to go with the words…the last EUM has yet, to this day, to truly express himself to me. His words very rarely matched his actions for whatever reason, but I’m not waiting for him anymore. It’s like you said, eventually a person gets tired of trying to prove themselves to someone. And I know that outside of signing it in blood, there was absolutely nothing else I could have done to “prove” my love for him. Oddly enough, he told me that he always thought that I deserved better than him and that he was waiting for the day that I would see it. And the women before me were not good to him at all, so perhaps it was his self fulfilling prophecy coming to pass by keeping me at a distance… I’m never gonna know whether or not that’s actually true, but you are indeed correct. When you put in an order…
Thanks for your posts Lia. As a self-aware EUW you really help me understand the thoughts of my ex.
This is now the second bang on description of me in the comments. Exactly! You’re not alone – not much of a consolation I know, but thanks so much for sharing.
The lesson I learned after my ex-AC break-up and the rejection dance that ensued was that in reality – it’s not about YOU. Once I could separate myself from his actions, it made it not personal. It took a while and a lot of work, but thank God I’m here. I can now suck it and see on FBook and the only internal response I get from his photo is, this person is a stranger to me. Rejection truly is God’s protection.
I have a couple of friends going through it right now, and while I can empathize with their pain, I truly think it’s something we have to go through in order to come out the other side with a healthier perspective on ourselves and relationships. I believe that challenges like these make us stronger and are necessary for our growth. I read somewhere that “Ego enemies are friends of our true self”, and I really believe that going through what I went through, meaning the complete dismantling of my ego, has helped me get closer to my true self. It doesn’t happen over night, and I have slip-ups now and then, but time, no-contact, therapy, and this website have all helped me get to the other side. Best of luck to everyone “going through it”. You can do it!
I’ve been visiting the site often and this was a good post for me today. I definitely struggle with rejection and my first (yes, I made it to 36) experience with an EUM has me in a tailspin. I recognized it pretty early and being me confronted it. I told him that I couldn’t be angry at him for not feeling the way I wanted him to feel but I could/would be very angry and upset if he treated me poorly. This was after being blown off a few times. Silly me believed him when he assured me he wasn’t trying to blow me off. Turns out he was “talking out of his bum”. Although he promised me he would be upfront with me when he wanted out, we went from having a great date to him not acknowledging my existence (we work together) overnight. I have spent too much time wondering why he didn’t just tell me it wasn’t working for him and I’ve realized that of course it is working for him. I stroke his ego and give him company and pretty much accept not getting anything in return.
So, this is it. Though I’m tempted to call him and ask him why he started acting like a FNAH (my friend’s name for him. FNutAHole, I’m sure you can fill in the rest), I realize it is pointless because he’ll just tell me what he thinks I want to hear so he can gone on feeling like he’s been open and honest with me, blah blah blah.
Now I just have to stick to my guns. Easier said than done.
Exactly!
Once I stopped rejecting myself, accepting it was easier to let go of.
Not everything works, as you said, and I KNEW I didn’t want someone who wasn’t there for me the way I wanted to be there for him.
As compared to hoping he’d want me the way I wanted him and hanging on to that fantasy.
I like myself more.
By not rejecting myself and by valuing myself, rejection from someone else is not as overwhelming.
This is something I have struggled with all my life; I take it all very, very hard. It causes me an extreme amount of pain.
My last relationship was one of the ones that caused me the most awful feelings of rejection but somehow on this occasion I found my own way and learnt the lessons I needed to.
I dealt with abandonment issues and learnt so many things about myself. Why should I allow others to define me? I know who I am. And why should I especially allow men and friends who behave badly to define me?
They just were not that special to begin with and what I didn’t realise was I was still dealing with painful childhood abandonment issues which caused me to pick people who would do the same.
If I look back at my relationships and each one came back, begging…. I can honestly say I would not take on the offer, in fact I couldn’t really even be their friends.
They all came into my life to teach me something about myself, that’s it. Each day is a learning experience for me because I’m choosing to live my life differently, it can be hard but its worth it.
ICanDoBetter- You just described my family aswell, I’m not kidding. If I call them out on it, my mum makes me apologize. They think that you have to be married just to leave home. It’s like are we living in 2011 or 1950? I don’t want to be 30 and still living at home, just coz ” you have to be married to do anything”. Who wants to marry an adult who still lives at home?
ICanDoBetter- You just described my family aswell, I’m not kidding. If I call them out on it, my mum makes me apologize. They think that you have to be married just to leave home. It’s like are we living in 2011 or 1950? I don’t want to be 30 and still living at home, just coz ” you have to be married to do anything”. Who wants to marry an adult who still lives at home? And they wonder why I want to rebel.
I love it! This makes so much sense to me. I’ve always been a, ‘oh, it just didn’t work out’ kinda person, but this really makes me understand my friends who always feel the rejection so keenly much more. I’m going to start explaining it in these terms to them, so if we can’t convert a few more people to your own brand of sanity!
I’ve subscribed to your blog, and the NC newsletter, and have been reading you for about two months now. So much of what you say hits home hard with me. But this blog is EXACTLY what I needed to hear. I don’t know why it takes so many different ways of saying the same things. But tonight you rang true, and got through like never before. I will read these words over and over again until I let go.
“Instead of feeling crap about everything you didn’t get that you think you were entitled to – remember who they were and why it’s over. If there’s some good in there, great, but if what you’re mourning is the loss of what didn’t happen, don’t ‘waste’ your life by devoting it to taking up pain and rejection solitude as a vocation.”
This has been me, in a nutshell. And I’m so tired of it. Thank you for your words! You’ve helped me through (yet another) difficult time. But this time, there may truly be a light at the end.
This comes at exactly the right time–recently on holiday I met someone great and had a by-the-book holiday romance, complete with romantic moments and lots of sweet things said. While I was there I went off him and felt uncomfortable so I pushed him off me and pushed him away from me. It’s only when getting back home I realised how stupid I was in doing so. I’m still young and I’ve had my share of ACs and EUMs, while so far away this guy was much much better. He hasn’t replied to me for 2 weeks and I think it’s time to stop waiting but I regret my past actions and not seriously talking to him about relationships/treated him well.
He was surprised that I apologised for my behaviour then but was distant, no doubt because of us being on other sides of the world again! I’ve been stupidly rehashing everything and feeling very rejected, which is silly. I guess I’ll be using BR more and more.
Daisy
This was never going anywhere, it was just a holiday fling.
No wonder he was suprised you apologised.
I wouldn’t waste any more time thinking about this.
Daisy,
I agree! He lives on the other side of the world. It would never work!
Daisy, don’t feel rejected! This reminds me of this terrible reality show that MTV had a few years ago (terrible = I never missed an episode) about a group of 20-somethings that worked at a resort in Hawaii. The guys on it made a system out of bedding girls that were staying at this resort and yapped on and on about how it was fantastic because they’d never see them again. Those girls weren’t getting rejected – it just was what it was. It’s easy to be super-romantic and sweet when you know that the person is leaving and you won’t have to actually live up to any of that romance in the real world. Hope this helps!
I think it’s hugely important how the ending of a relationship is conveyed , it can make a world of difference. I recently experienced finding out from an EUM passive agressive AC ( Yes I won the trifecta in him) who has stuffed me around for years,with his off and on again routine , well he realised ( yeah right ) he “shouldn’t be in a relationship yet again.I wasn’t overly surprised by him doing this again. What I found really painful , was that he sent me this via an email.Had he have had the respect to phone or express it face to face, it would have been disappointing for sure , but no where near as hurtful as what I found it to be, receiving exactly the same words via an email. The shallow creep did do me an unintended favor though , as it made me finally realise he just ” aint that good ” no way worthy of me , my time, my effort, my affection and energy.
Absolutely, Nat, competing for a man’s attention is a sure fire way to set a woman up for major stress and inner turmoil. And peace of mind is impossible. And who wants to be second best and play second fiddle to another woman? And with kids involved, the other woman is far down in the pecking order.
Hey Nat – Nice new pic and layout!
Woohoo – epiphany! I just realized that I’ve been the Emotionally Unavailable one my entire life in terms of guys I’ve thought I wanted. I’m the one who has always wanted guys (or boys) who were obviously not right for me and yet I’d still go after it.. because I didn’t think I deserved any better. And when they weren’t who I wanted them to be, I would just chase harder because the drama (in most cases) allowed the focus to be on them so I couldn’t look too hard at myself. I’ve fallen for guys way too young for me, a married guy, a couple guys who lived halfway across the country, oh yah and the oh-so-EU narcissist and though I’ve only had 2 serious relationships, all those “crushes” were SO wrong for me in so many ways. Even my ex-husband who loved me so much more than I ever loved him, I martyred myself by staying with him way past our expiration date. I thought it was to spare his feelings, but really it was to keep from pushing myself to do what was best for me. I didn’t know what was best for me, but I certainly wasn’t in any rush to find out and his or other guys’ issues kept me from dealing with my own. I certainly didn’t feel I deserved a good healthy relationship, I didn’t love myself enough to even know to want it. It’s amazing how much I’ve started learning about myself.. just freakin amazing.
Carrie,
I can totally relate.
I wish I could send your thoughts to a friend but, she is not ready for BR. I’ve tried.
All the best!
Thanks Allison
I’m a total codependent so I definitely know the feeling of “knowing what’s best” for someone and wanting sooo bad to show them! But as we’ve read so many times on here, you can’t tell anyone anything, it’s up to them to know already or seek out the truth themselves and that goes for friends as well. All you can do is offer advice ONLY if they ask for it and even if they’re venting like mad, if they don’t ask all you can do is be a listening ear. Your friend will have to find her own way just as we all have.
Hey guys, I really need some support right now. It’s been one week since the MM ended our relationship and miserable doesn’t even begin to describe how I feel. I went NC for 5 days until we had an all-day meeting together at work and he approached me in the parking lot. Throughout the day he’d been giving me sad looks and I had to take bathroom breaks so I didn’t cry in front of my boss, but the end of the day did me in.
He asked me how I was doing (awful) and told me how sorry he was, how he’s not happy at all. He said his feelings for me will never change and no matter what decision he made, he wouldn’t be happy: if he chose me, he’d be “abandoning his children when they needed him most”, but he also hates living without “us”. Like a fool I told him that I hoped, if he ever changed his mind, he’d come back to me and he said that no matter where I was, he would…but right now, he’s still at home with his family and I’m sobbing on the couch writing this.
I’ve been crying uncontrollably for a week…I can’t eat, I can’t see my friends, I even work in a conference room alone so I can cry without anyone seeing. Despite how much of this blog I’ve read and what my therapist tells me, I want him back and can’t shake this pain – in fact, it seems to get worse every day.
I know everyone says I’ll get through this with time but it doesn’t feel that way. I feel crushed and I feel like I lost the love of my life. Seeing him at work is killing me, not talking to him is killing me, and talking to him is killing me. I feel like I can hardly function. How do I know I’m going to get over him? How do I know I won’t feel this pain forever?
Bri, 4 words: it’s been a week.
I could understand if you said all this and a year or two had passed, but it’s been a week, you work with him AND you’ve already engage with him. What did you expect? You’ve just spent six years in a faux relationship with a married man with three kids, two of whom are disabled, who talked out of his arse, pontificated about what he’d like to do, slagged off his wife, and essentially future faked and delivered nothing.
You have spent ONE week in ‘suffering’ and are saying you can’t take it and are asking if it will last forever. Why, were you never asking this question during your SIX years?
The feeling doesn’t last forever or even for months and years on end – you’ll discover that if you stop being a one week thinker. It’s supposed to hurt – that’s why it’s called a breakup.
Correction two years. I was mixing you up with Adrienne. Two years vs a week anyway.
Nat
Your mix up says something – Bri, I know this situation feels very special and unique to you – but it’s really not. There’ve been so MANY women here who’ve heard exactly the same words from MMs as you and have felt the same as you, me included. Yep, we all thought we wouldn’t get over it either. So sometimes we get the details confused.
YOU are special and unique. Your affair isn’t. Don’t get it mixed up. You don’t need this affair to “work out” to be a special person, you already are.
And even if you were an everyday, ordinary kinda girl (nothing wrong with that) you’d still deserve an everyday, ordinary kinda guy just for you. Not someone who creeps around in parking lots to stick it to you after work.
Hi Bri,
The pain won’t last forever. You seem young: I hope you won’t be like I was in my early twenties. When I dealt with my first shock from a lying guy, I obsessed for *more than a year* over why he wasn’t interested in me. My main focus was on how close he’d gotten to me (as in, he saw the “real” me!) and how could he leave me after that kind of closeness?
I thought you’d said it was two years and I hope to heck that’s right but even two days is two, too, too, long with a MM. Nat’s point is the same: you’ve invested a significant portion of your life in something that was never going to pay off for you the way you wanted. It’s going to hurt. If he wants to pull sad faces at you, whatever: he’s left with a family, and people around him every day, and a home life. You’re the one left with squat. He may feel bad about it but he’s not getting shafted the way you have been, and have positioned yourself to be, shafted.
Look at it as though you’ve been eviscerated. In Jane Eyre she described being in love (not that I’d call your affair love) as a connection between people’s guts: it’s a good image. You connected your guts to him; now all of those intestinal connections, which took time to form, like a tangle of nerves and blood vessels, have been ripped out.
It frickin hurts! It’s fricking bleeding and tearing up and snotting and diarrheaing all over the place! Yes, as it should. But it doesn’t mean you should surgically reattach yourself to the guy.
Take a brief leave if you have to, so at least for a few days you don’t see him.
You got wounded. You played in traffic, you got hit by the mack truck. Now go home and take care of yourself. Don’t go looking for the mack truck to be sorry he hit you. Give your own self a shake for getting intertwined with someone already intertwined with other people. Give yourself a shake for playing in traffic and getting smacked full of internal injuries. Yes, it hurts.
You will heal. Stay NC.
Hi Magnolia,
I really liked what you wrote:…”My main focus was on how close he’d gotten to me (as in, he saw the “real” me!) and how could he leave me after that kind of closeness?…” This got me thinking about the Flip Flop Wearing AC that I’d been with. This bloke loved the dating…ie not the real stuff…ie the real me. He liked the women who he could take out and feed! (read recent post on my feeder penchant) he liked me all dressed up, He liked my Job…dunno why it caused me nothing but stress and basically gave me something to hand wring about. He liked me going to his and snuggling up lol but he didnt like the real me…ie that stuff that we all have going on like periods, housework, chores friends, liking a glass of wine, getting upset, asking for something real, question his Rinky Dinky behaviour, a 18 year old son (who he was obsessed with, ie I was’nt pulling him to line, whatever that means, not controlling his drinking, not doing enough round the house) my son is a great young man and he is OK!!!! having a cat laughing at my type of comedy you know the real stuff that we all have going on. For years I was on a perpetual date with a guy who rides a bike wears Flip Flops and has nothing to talk about other than how he’s done his washing…Yeah I get that, cheers…how he had a punture on the way to work…great..children dying in the Sudan but yeah a punctures out there…what new aftershave he bought…get the picture I used to have life…I love london, theatres, doing like stuff…well I used to, The last time I went was to a dreary Coda meeting in a basement in a church there…just to prove I was working my programme. To be honest I dont know what I was doing. Worrying about this boring man rejecting me…to much of the Relationship Crack…I should have gone to a NA meeting instead. For most of us its so hard to look at the reality because we rush in idetifying with a few hurts and superficial values etc try to merge as one and take each other hostage and then wonder why the hell it didnt work out. Being emotionally unavailable for me was about ignoring the signs, not recognising the signs, one because it was to painful to look at because OH GOD he really is not that into me, not again, Im a really unlovable person and two not knowing what good relationship behaviour was or is, and not recognising the fact that…
Bri, please hang in there and take NML’s and Magnolia’s words to heart. Don’t go down the road and end up six years down the line like me. I remember the pain you’re in — that level of non stop crying and hurt and body shaking happened to me the first couple times my ex MM and I broke up. If you go back, do you want to go through that pain again a few months or a year down the line when he realizes again that he can’t/won’t leave his kids, his life, etc. for you? Lather, rinse, repeat. You’ll go through that pain AGAIN and want him back to feel better and he’ll come back with apologies and how you have a “connection” and blah blah and you’ll want to just feel better and so…back to that again…and then the pain when he realizes, etc. I did that for six years. Please do not make the mistake I did. Stay strong. Take care of YOU. Hugs.
today is my parents’ 50th Anniversary, doing some reflecting on that. if I got married tomorrow, I’d have to be 96 for that day! they’re having a quiet dinner at home, just the 2 of them. they grew out of parties and big social events years ago, along with overt sentimentality about their marriage. hopefully they’ll enjoy themselves, and leave out the bickering, they’ve both become rather cranky and impatient! maybe I will too.
reading this thread has me thinking back to 1st serious heartbreaks in my 20′s. I was certain the pain would last forever then, was totally unprepared. thinking bout those guys, I haven’t been able to access intense feelings of any kind for them, or the extreme acuteness of the pain for what seems a million years. and I had a few rounds of VERY extreme heartbreak, which triggered terrible depression, and once even decided to take a year off of college b/c I knew I couldn’t focus. instead I worked & saved up to live in Paris w/girlfriends for the Spring, travelled around, met up w/friends in London. unfortunately, my rebound relationship then backfired, which prolonged the pain. in any case, it was all so long ago, and I was madly in love each time, it’s where all this oversensitivity to rejection first became apparent. but I did get over them, while swearing I never would. they’re just memories now. in my 30′s, I had relationships with 2 men who ended up dying far too young — one at 29 of pancreatic cancer, and one at 38 of an enlarged heart he was unaware of. I loved them too, and yes, had to mourn the losses. there was tremendous pain and grief. but I did move past that.
there have been many days over the past year, that inner negative voice has once again been telling me I’ll never get over this, I’ll never find anyone to love ever again, that those other heartbreaks were different. one cannot compare apples & oranges, but I know my losses are nothing like what my parents will experience when the time comes.
sometimes, I think the best cure is to zone out & laugh until you can’t breathe. just recently I found “Peep Show” from UK, on Hulu in the U.S., watched all 7 seasons in a marathon. never laughed so hard in my life. that’s a healthy way to distract from pain, imho!
Bri
A few practical suggestions:
1. Can you take holiday for a couple of weeks? Or even a week.
2. Stop describing it as a a “relationship”, call it an “affair”.
3. If he approaches you again in parking lots (pathetic), tell him you will only speak to him, in the office, on work-related matters
4. You’ve got another week of crying on the couch. Week three, limit your crying time to an hour a day.
5. Seriously, if it gets that bad, find a new job!
Hi Bri, I just want to give you some encouragement. Hang in there and give yourself some time. Time really does heal all wounds. I speak from experience. My 4 year old daughter died of cancer and at the time, I thought I would never enjoy life again, ever. I honestly did not believe I would even ever laugh again. It did take well over a year to even feel somewhat normal, and 5 years to realize I did enjoy life again and happiness did return to my heart and I did laugh again, a lot! The loss of my child was the deepest loss I could ever imagine, and while I don’t want to minimize your saddness (and I experienced a pretty good run of depression over my stupid MM situation) there is one thing I know. As humans, we can eventually move on past ANYTHING (not get over, just live with it), and so can you. Just keep your eyes in front of you, put one foot in front of the other, and remember when you feel the lowest, you will survive this. Time will march on, and one day you will think of him and not feel like someone kicked you in the stomach. Then another day you will think of him and realize it has been 2 days since you last thought of him. And finally, one day you will only think of him when you want to, or something reminds you of him. Your pain is not forever. It is impossible for us to hold it that long, we are not made that way. Use this time to grow. People lose people they love every day, through divorce, death, or break ups and they do go on to live happy, fulfilled lives. You will too, but please be a bit more patient with yourself. If you haven’t, watch 500 Days of Summer…what a great loved and lost movie!
Thank you for sharing and I’m sorry for your loss. As a mother, I know that just the thought of losing your child is painful and to experience it as you and several friends can attest to is something that changes a person. It is however recognising that people who lose loved ones through death do gradually recover. My grandma passed 3 years next week – my grandad after more than 50 years of being together lived to smile and enjoy life again. He’s not the ‘same’, how could he be, but after believing he’d never survive, he has.
Oldenough and Bri,
I too am very sorry for the loss of your 4 year old daughter Oldenough. I’m glad that you can laugh again, a lot. The exMM lost a child (same age as my daughter) and the grief was tremendous. I still have nightmares and call my daughter at all times of the day and night to make sure she is ok.
Bri as I mentioned to you, I experienced the rinse, lather, repeat syndrome when the ex MM would turn up at work, sad, looking like shit, wearing my favorite shirt, saying that he can’t live without me. The fact I now realize is, he made the choice to live without me, despite his words. Your ex MM has made the same choice, too live without you. Thus, he apparently can.
I couldn’t write much in the beginning, I thought, because I was too busy crying. When you can, download Natalie’s guidelines for the Unsent Letter. I’ve had therapists talk about Unsent Letters but never understood how to write one, what the significance was or how to start until I read Natalie’s guidelines. I started and stopped and started and stopped. Mostly, I feared the pain of unloading the baggage because it hurt too much. What I see now is how amazingly spot on I was when I started. Even though I didn’t think I was writing much, I was. Last night, I sat down to continue the Unsent Letter to the MM and I was shocked. Nothing came up. I may be simply done. I’d highly recommend getting started even while you are crying. That’s the best time. I’m going to do some more later this afternoon and see what comes up.
My thoughts are with you. Grace’s recommendation regarding next week and the week after are great! Get writing.
Can I also say to oldenough’, I am so, so sorry for your terrible loss and so impressed by your courage.
To Bri: you don’t get it yet, but keep reading Nat! And listen to amazing Grace – she talks a heap of sense borne out of hard won wisdom via personal experience – all hard truths, but truths! One suggestion from me: go back in the archives here and read about boundaries; you are in this situation partly,perhaps mainly, because you don’t kow what your boundaries are. If you have no boundaries – no non-negotiables – you have nothing to protect you from the hurt that you are now feeling – you cannot dodge the bullets and even when you free yourself from this MM you will remain vulnerable to repeat the same mistakes (and Bri, yes, this affair is a mistake! A very big mistake and you are now reaping what you have sown for yourself). Boundary number one for all of us: “I do not date men who are already attached” (married, girlfriend, partner etc.). Don’t date or engage in flirtations with them and you won’t be in this position. And that includes this MM you are stuck on now. Him too, he is NOT an exception. He is the rule. He has to go. For your own sake and health and happiness and well-being, he has to go. So, set that boundary now. No married men. None. He is bad news; all he has for you is more of the same. You are not that desperate and he is not that special (he is married = NOT available = don’t engage with him and if you do expect to do a shed load of crying on the couch and everywhere else for a very long time). Also, if he cared about you – or had a healthy respect for your welfare – he would not be bleating away about how hard it all is for him – in a parking lot. He’d know he was bad news for you and leave you well alone. Good luck.
Oldenough – Just wanted to give you a big ol’ {{HUG}}. You are an inspiration!
Bri – you will move past this. Not that I’m an expert on anything, but if I were in your position I would look for a new job, pronto! I think you may even realize at this early stage that the work situation is going to cause you extended pain when it is not necessary.
I’ve been reading BR for a few months, and in that time I have so benefitted from you, Natalie, and also all the fabulous insightful comments. The last two years I have been in so much pain with my divorce from a passive agressive AC/EUM with whom I share 3 children. Facing the knowledge of my own choices in this disaster have been particularly painful, since reading BR and thinking hard about my trend in choosing men–starting in middle school (ha so boys I guess).
I’ve screened plenty of unsuitable men in these past 2 years, and I finally fell (hard) for a younger man who while kind and sweet superficially, did in fact admit he could not give me what I thought I wanted (a committed relationship). Well, faced with this reality of our divergent paths, I was disappointed, but I foolishly resolved that “sure we can be friends, call me when things calm down in the next couple weeks.” Umm, yeah that was stupid. I knew it, and after reading this blog and seeing, thinking so much, I knew he would call, push the “reset” button in around ten days, and here I was giving him permission! Sure enough, he called on Sunday and asked if he could come over and just “lay in my bed with me.” Seriously! I said yes, and then in this little numb bubble of mine, proceeded to completely violate myself by having sex, thinking “well I know I’m gonna regret this, so I better do it twice.” Who does that!?! I was offended when I got an obligatory “nice” text the next day–”I had fun yesterday!” But that’s what I made it. It wasn’t meaningful, loving, affectionate, and he didn’t stay the night, because the pretense of maybe there’s a relationship, maybe there’s not was completely gone. And I handed to him on a silver platter. WTF.
“well I know I’m gonna regret this, so I better do it twice.” I actually couldn’t help but laugh and I suggest it’s what you do Lila and then never allow him to do it again. You’ve sucked, you’ve seen, you know it’s not good for you and ultimately that’s all that counts. Push your flush handle and start looking forward.
Lila, I laughed out loud at the ‘better do it twice”!! I can relate to that so much! I had same idea when I’d go against my better judgement and see the ex-EUM again after promising myself I wouldn’t when he did his ‘gone cold’ on me routine. I would know the on/off pattern would repeat itself and would figure, well, if I’m daft enough to be here with him – again! – I may as well make the most of it! Glad I have now got my head out of my arse!
I am still really struggling with the reality of who he is. There are some really sweet things about him, almost like he’s straying into/experimenting with EU behavior but is not completely “gone” as it were. There I go, wanting to be Flo. Ugh. He is a musician, hanging with musicians. I have to remind myself that your company unavoidably affects your character…
I still struggle with feelings of rejection. If we tried, and didn’t work, that’s one thing. But to build me up, then not even give it a whirl, and turn to someone you just met instead? Hurtful.
I feel like Sally in ‘When Harry Met Sally’, when she found out Joe, her ex was getting married. Harry came over, and said, “I thought you didn’t want him?” Sally says, “I didn’t. BUT HE DIDN’T WANT ME!”
He loves me, but isn’t in love with me. Can’t imagine me not in his life. Whatever.
Bah.
Ah, I just read your highlighted post, after my most recent comment, and this jumped out at me:
“………it’s time to ask yourself that if you want these things that badly, what are you going to do about it?”
“I stopped pitying myself, I stopped making excuses, and I faced my fears and DID something. ”
What am I going to do about it, indeed! Time to get my head out of my butt. Seriously.
Thank you, Nat! And thank you Blaise, Grace, and CC, and others for sharing your stories!
Yes Nat, it is what I do. And I entered into this “autopilot” mode for the time we were together, so I was blindsided with the hurt that followed. Even though he positioned himself for my lapse in judgement, I was the one who made the decision to go through with it. I should also note that this was our first time being intimate. I am trying to learn to be more intentional with the men I choose. It’s exhausting sometimes. I’m taking some time for me for a while.
Over a week ago, there was a planned get together with some people on meetup.com. I backed out. I wondered if this was a red flag on my part, if it was me afraid of rejection or my paranoia. The coordinator has me as a friend (though we have not met) on FB and made a comment about someone who visited her house recently. It hit me as she is talking about someone she just met and is announcing it on this public website. That made me feel weird because my mind went to if she posts about people on this website, then this is the type of person she is and I am not comfortable with someone that could possibly post about me. Maybe I used that as an excuse not to go but it bothers me when people do stuff like that. So I immediately did not trust her.
Plus I was too anxious to go to her house, having never met her or the other people that were going. I was scared of what they would think of me…..and heck…..post about it on FB.
Hey there colororange,
What you have described sounds a bit weird to me. I’m no expert though. I’ve only been to three meetup events but they have been in public places and not at somebody’s house. I don’t think I’d feel comfortable going to a stranger’s house to meet other folks I did not know. What they would think of me or post on FB seems irrelevant. That being said, the FB element just adds another dimension of weirdness. I think you probably did the right thing in trusting your instinct. Going to a stranger’s house to meet strangers doesn’t sound like fun to me either. The only reason I went to the three meet up events was because there was music I wanted to hear and I know I have to get out of my rut. I met a nut case but nut cases are everywhere, including my place of work. Now I think I know how to go in the opposite direction when the nuts drop on my doorstep whether they are my colleagues and/or jokeamoes who want to get laid. I’m thinking you did the right thing and thank you for sharing. It’s tough to know when you are behaving in the present based on the past and when to trust new found awareness. I wouldn’t go to a stranger’s house…red flag.
I am totally with runner on this colourorange – good decision!
Colororange, the red flag isn’t backing out (as Grace, Fearless have said it was a good decision) – the red flag is that when you have the opportunity to try something new and engage with new people, you choose a shady opportunity which then gives you the legitimate opportunity to back out. That is sabotage, self-fulfilling prophecy, laziness, you name it. You then get to tell yourself that new meetings are risky and avoid getting out of your comfort zone. I put it this way – if you were planning to meet people who never use a social network, you’re narrowing that pool dramatically.
1) Stop adding strangers on Facebook if you’re that concerned about privacy. Or get off Facebook.
2) Take the suggestions that Runner has made re meeting up – just like you wouldn’t go on a first date to someone’s house or meet in a dark alleyway, as a lone woman you wouldn’t just arrange to meet up with some randoms at a house.
3) Stop trying to control the uncontrollable – people talking about what they did, even when it’s ridiculously mundane is the bread and butter of social networks. If you’re going to judge people, do it for something proper.
4) Distrusting someone because they posted on Facebook is exceedingly disproportionate. Distrusting someone that posts inappropriate or even offensive material on Facebook is another matter of course.
What you did is like going on a dating site and agreeing to meet some random guy at his house and then changing your mind. Actually even worse, it would be like agreeing to meet several random guys at a house. What’s the issue? The fact that they might do something or the fact that you would agree to meet several random guys at the house? One is something that hasn’t happened yet but could and the other is something 100% under your control and has already happened.
When I saw that she was hosting the meetup at her house, I considered telling her I was not comfortable with that because I did not know her or anyone else that would be showing up. Plus, I did not have a suggestion as to where we could meet instead since it was a potluck. I can be a risk taker on some things but my days of doing stupid stuff like throwing myself headlong into things that could be dangerous are quickly ending. Then when I saw her making fun of someone else on FB it sort of solidified me not going. I know it sounds bad and I am not happy that I have this shady side to me, but it seems I am spending most my time managing anxiety over people. So would it have been rude or a good idea for me to just tell her I was not comfortable with the meetup situation or not say anything at all? I have many questions on general people skills on what to say and not to say. It’s like there are so many rules. I wish there was a class I could go to where I live that would help me out in this area. Being it is a small city where there is not much of that going on, I feel like I am floundering alone.
colorange
you don’t have a shady side (well, no more than anyone else here). you’re not confident of your beliefs, you don’t trust your instincts, and you’re not very streetwise. I’m sure that how’s a lot of women end up in shady situations, not necessarily because they themselves are shady.
It’s fine to say “thanks for inviting me but i can’t make it. hope you’re evening goes well” You don’t have to give a long explanation.
Can you possibly extend the relationships you already have – say colleagues, family, friends, church, reading group at the library, evening classes, dance classes? The internet is a bit of a minefield.
Colour, I agree totally with Nat. Your first mis-judgement was to arrange to meet a bunch of strangers in a house and not in an appropriate public place – God knows what they might have had in mind. That could have been potentially dangerous. That was the red flag. You missed it. I do however, agree that the woman who runs these “meets” should not be mocking her “guests” on f/bk or publicly – anywhere. That’s bad form and a red flag – but it was the second one and nothing campared to the first that you ignored. So you were right to back out. But you should never have opted in. Don’t add stangers as friends on f/bk. Meet them first before you decide to be friends! Focus on this: meet new people and have fun – but do it with your safety and well-being as your first and greatest priority.
I have a feeling you’d be better getting involved in an official, genuine and properly run local club or group that involves people who want to learn or engage in a common interest, sport or hobby. Consider that as a better and safer bet.
I reckon a bigger red flag than Colororange’s doubts is the fact that anyone would consider hosting a Meetup in their own home, i.e. opening it up to total strangers. On top of this, the fact that this woman 1) befriends strangers on Facebook and 2) slags people off on Facebook should signal that this person has serious boundaries issues and therefore isn’t someone you’d want to spend time with.
Peacefrog Colororanges ‘doubts’ aren’t the primary red flag as they ultimately even though they’re scrambled in with some stuff she could do with handling, kept her out of an odd situation. It’s also important to recognise that with the level of anxiety, it could have been in room in the centre of town with police guard and closed access to social networks and there would still have been an issue.
2 people here – one you can control, one you can’t. Facebook aside, the original choice to go to it was made by Colororange. Plenty of people go to meetup’s at homes although I imagine they’re more likely to know one another.
It’s very easy for us to pick faults with others but at the end of day, take the focus of them and bring it back to you.
Heh funny this came up.. I was going to go to my first meetup today because it sounded fun – Dinner & a Movie. Well it turned out that the movie was some weird independent film (I prefer mainstream movies) and the dinner was at a pretty expensive place that is also an absinthe bar (I don’t drink but I wondered if that was one of the reasons they chose it). Though I was excited to get out there, I ended up backing out and I wondered if I was doing it for the wrong reasons. But it occurred to me that spending at least $40 on an event that didn’t even sound interesting to me was just plain silly. Especially since I’m trying to watch my money right now. So I cancelled and created my own suggestion for a bowling and pizza meetup.. MUCH more my style. I still want to meet new people, but not in situations that don’t match up with what I’m interested in. That struck me as trying to be something I’m not and I wouldn’t attract the kind of people I would want to hang out with in that situation anyway.
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