Imagine the two of you in your relationship as two birds, and that progressing the relationship and commitment is all about moving the two of you in the direction of a cliff top, with the two of you needing to take a leap of faith together for commitment and fly from the cliffs edge.
Now imagine a commitment resistant bird – pushing them for commitment is like taking them to the edge of the cliff and asking them to take off and fly with you and them refusing just as you’re about to take off, or making sure you get nowhere near the cliff’s edge by obstructing you along the way.
You know that they’re not as ‘flight worthy’ (commitment able) as you would like and that you could have chosen to be with a bird that actually had flying capabilities and desires, but because of your beliefs about yourself, love, and relationships, you decided that you wanted a bird that would make you the exception to their rule of being a commitment resistant bird. You may also have been worried that if you had chosen a more flight worthy bird, they would have noticed the flaws that you believe you have and that you wouldn’t have taken flight anyway.
Instead of putting your energies into working at a relationship with an ‘able bodied’ bird so that any ‘investment’ you’re making is into the progressing of a healthy relationship, you instead invest in a bird with limited capacity which generates limited results, but if it pays off, which is an enormous, dangerous gamble, you will feel a huge personal sense of validation and believe that you’re loveable and worthy because someone who was a commitment dodger was willing to commit to you.
You could seek commitment with birds that have a likelier prospect of giving you a relationship but instead, you want this bird to love, commit to you and change – love against the odds.
Unfortunately in recognising their own limited capacity to fly they recognised your limited capacity to fly, after all, if you really wanted to ‘take flight’ why would you align yourself with a broken co-pilot? They then decided that they couldn’t and wouldn’t take the risk.
When they think about taking off and flying with you, they worry that they might not be up to the job, that you might expect things from them in the flight that they don’t think they’re capable of, that there were other birds that they didn’t want to rule out, that taking flight into the unknown, even if it’s with you is too scary, or even that they might not be able to rely on you because they recognise your own limitations. In fact, they may have decided a long time ago, that they don’t want to fly with anyone.
They make even think that you want them to take flight with you, not because you really love them and truly want to make the journey with them, but just because you really want to fly, period.
Each time they stall on flying, they get you to take a step back from the cliff to take some more time, get their lives sorted, ‘think about things’ or whatever the hell it is. Because you spend a lot of time trying to show them the ropes and explain what it would be like when you take flight and preparing for life after launching, the last thing you want to do is jack in all of your hard work. Or at least it feels like hard work because you’re trying so hard with them, but it’s important to remind yourself that it’s working at something with a limited capacity as opposed to putting yourself out there with a real prospect of ‘flying’.
Truth be told actually, deep down, you’re really scared of flying and part of the reason why this relationship is so attractive is that you can spend a lot of your energy on trying to get to the point of flying but not actually fly, which would be really scary. Of course this is forgotten when you’re focusing on their inability to fly.
You look for a sign that they’re ready and even if you don’t get one, you might push them to take that walk to the cliffs edge and take flight.
You’ll feel bewildered because it’ll seem like you’re so good together, fluttering around, hanging out, making sweet love (or maybe not so sweet) and enjoying the good times. But each time it feels like you’re going somewhere in the direction of that cliff, something seems to happen to slow you both down and derail your progress.
If they were nodding in agreement along the way, you’d think your relationship was progressing and then you’d get right to the edge and prime up for the leap moment, only for them to suddenly pull back just as you’re about to jump.
To be honest, the whole time you were making the journey to the edge, you were never entirely convinced that they were going to fly and even when you did try and believe it, you were filled with terror at the thought of it actually happening.
They may even test you sometimes and say ‘OK, I think I’m ready to take the flight soon – whaddaya say?’ and you’ll say ‘I do want to take the flight with you but I think it’s too soon’ or ‘I do want to do it, but I need to be absolutely sure that you want to take the flight because I’ve been hurt before and I don’t want to go there again’.
Still, like you always do, you imagine the two of you taking that flight and imagine various scenarios and plans – they just don’t come to fruition.
For others, the moment they felt like you were trying to take them to the cliffs edge, they were resisting you or even saying outright that they wanted out. They’re throwing up obstacles, disappearing on you, causing arguments, and maybe even trying it on with or sleeping with other birds.
Still, you hang in there and periodically, you try to get them to commit.
If you’ve ever been involved with someone who can’t or won’t commit, your relationship is like repeated failed trips to the cliffs edge.
If you’re still there, you’re believing that if you just do the right things and not act too needy, or give them more time, or lay down an ultimatum, or flirt with another bird, or whatever, that eventually, they will take the leap with you.
On some level, you recognise that your wings are not working as effectively as they should be, but you may be thinking that when their wings fix up and look sharp, your wings will too. You may also be empathising and sympathising thinking that because your ability to fly has some issues and theirs does too, that you’re in it together and understand one another.
When you think about ending the relationship and moving on, you imagine that ‘some other bird’ is going to come along, start a relationship with your flip flapping, commitment resistant bird, and in two shakes of a lambs tail, they’ll be taking off and flying with them over the cliff. You’ve seen it before with your ex’s or your friends, and the thought of it happening fills you with dread. So you hang in there. Eventually after one too many trips to the cliffs edge and maybe even an aborted flight or two with crash landings, you decide that enough is enough. You try to get over them and contemplate your life without them but are still scared that you ‘missed’ a trick and some other bird will come along and reap the benefits of all your hard work.
In recognising their limitations, we want them to open up and change. We want to fix their broken wings.
We want them to learn the lessons we think they should from our investment into the relationship so that we can reap the benefit. If you’re the type that wants to get back together with your ex or gets nostalgic, you may have garnered insights into your own behaviour and now want the opportunity to learn your lessons in the old relationship instead of moving on with your new found knowledge and seeking a better relationship.
Do you know what all of this stuff is about? Seeking validation. From not wanting them to be with someone else if they’re going to change, to wanting them to learn their lessons and change, to wanting to learn your lessons and getting the chance to try out your new knowledge on them – it’s all about seeking validation. Be very careful of trying to be right at the expense of your dignity and self-esteem and be very careful of being unwilling to fold on bad emotional investments and dedicating your life to walking back and forth to the commitment cliff’s edge.
But more importantly – if you are involved with someone who is commitment resistant, you need to examine your own capacity to commit and ask yourself: Why, if I genuinely want love, care, trust, and respect within a committed relationship, am I investing myself in someone who during my experience of being with them is not capable of it?
As I’ve explained to many a person who has been involved with a commitment resistant person, we kid ourselves into believing that we’re doing everything in our power to make our relationship work, but by creating self-fulfilling prophecies by choosing people with limited capacity that generate limited relationships, this is not the same as actually putting your efforts into a relationship with actual prospects.
Where you find one commitment resistant person, you will find another hiding behind them.
Your thoughts? Have you been hiding behind someone else’s inability to commit?
Check out my ebook on the the No Contact Rule which stresses the important of cutting contact with your ex, plus my ebook on emotionally unavailable men and the women that love them, Mr Unavailable & The Fallback Girland more in my bookshop.
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I concur. I’ve spent over 20 years in long-term relationships with four assclowns, one after the other. I even married one. After the final one, and a lot of thinking, I realised that the problem must be ME. I chose men who were attached/long distance/not over the ex/players etc. I wanted the challenge of winning them over more than I wanted a proper relationship.
When I did “win” I got bored/fed up with their behaviour and went off with the next assclown. Of course he was an assclown cos most decent relationship-ready men do not seek out relationships with attached women. THEREFORE, I most extrapolate that decent relationship-ready women do not seek out relationships with attached men either. If you are doing that, especially with married men, you have a problem with commitment.
A man who is there, present, loving, reliable feels wrong to you. You find it boring, you look for someone who presents a challenge. Then wonder why you’re hitting your head against a brick wall.
You think there is something wrong with them for loving you so easily. So much to think about!
I’d hate any of the women here to waste 20 years on crappy relationships. Take heed, if this is your life, stop and take stock.
By the way, I have been single for nearly five years and happy with it. I wish I had learned this lesson sooner but, hey, better late than never. Better single than dancing around after an assclown.
This article is so full of wisdom and light! After being alone after a divorce, with two sons, I decided a couple of years ago that I wanted to date again. The first man I met, was an EUM. He was charming and kind, and I fell in love almost immediately. He liked me, but was not in love, just attracted to me sexually.
Later I found out that he and his ex wife had been separated for 7 years! I told him last autumn that I didn’t want to be together with him anymore. I did NC for more than 5 months, until I accepted to talk with him again. I shouldn’t have done! This time he said he was so ready to commit, his divorce was finally in order. He promised me the world, that we should engange, marry….. I was sceptic, could he really have changed that much?
I wanted so much to fly from the cliff, but he hesitated. He wasn’t sure I was “the one” for him. I told him to get lost, and went on with my life. After a couple of months he is back again, but I know if I continue this dance with this o, so “nice” man, I will never fly again. O help me! I want to stay strong this time. I know NC is a fantastic tool, and I have to use it again, until it’s over. This is my epiphany.
I choose myself. I don’t have to wait until he has decided if he wants me or not. I want myself!
Hi Betha – keep choosing yourself. Each time you get out of NC you send him the message that you’re not to be taken seriously and NC becomes a game for him. This dance can go on for a long time and after a while, they get the idea that they don’t even have to work that hard to win you over. Never wait around for someone to decide if they want you. If they don’t know, that’s an answer in itself.
Great comment Grace. It’s the whole ‘love against the odds’ issue. We have to ask ourselves what is going on inside of us that we have to look for love from challenging sources for it to feel like it’s love? We have to be accountable for our choices – sticking with these men is about avoidance and they’re a time suck. I’m glad you’ve seen the light!
NML- Another great post. These thoughts are no longer new to me but having them repeated and reinforced is exactly what I need. A few months ago, I never would have believed I was commitment phobic. It was him and his inability to commit. I was so ready. I had no hesitations. The relationship couldn’t move fast enough for me. What was I thinking? I wanted a relationship – full stop. I must have wanted it bad, because I was dumping a ton of energy trying to get it from the least likely source on the planet. What never dawned on me till it was way too late was that he didn’t want it. What is only dawning on me now is that I must not have really wanted it either, or I wouldn’t have wasted my time. What I am still having trouble seeing is whether my problem really is commitment phobia or a tendency to live in fantasy. I understand it could be a bit of both, but I honestly never felt hesitant or unwilling to commit. I now see that I was creating fantasies where none existed, participating in a relationship that didn’t really exist anywhere but my head and was giving meaning to things that were meaningless and allowing that to fuel my hopes and dreams. But I don’t see that as the same as being unwilling to have a relationship. It wasn’t until several months into the “non-relationship” that his unwillingness began to manifest, so it isn’t like I could tell as I walked in the door that he was commitment phobic. That I stayed and tried to work it out once he began to hesitate I chalk up more to my pictures and fantasies and investment rather than my own unwillingness to commit. I get your point that if I really wanted a great healthy relationship, I should have walked away at that point but I wanted a return on my investment and really thought he might be willing to work on it (wrong, I know, but everything is always so much clearer in hindsight).
It’s not that I am trying to deny I might be commitment phobic. I just honestly don’t feel that way. If anything, I might be a tad desperate to commit and that leads me to make bad decisions and create non-existant relationships.
I like that you use the cliff analogy. It is identical to one I used in a letter I sent to the AC, asking him to make the leap of faith with me (he didn’t want to). Its a good metaphor – the certain death that follows leaping into the abyss.
A perfect way to protect yourself from really having to stretch yourself is living in a fantasy after all if you really want commitment why the fantasy? You can’t commit to something that doesn’t exist even if you believe it had a basis in something. When you’re in a fantasy and you ask the other person to jump on board, they’ll be confused as it will sound like you’re talking about a totally different relationship. What you need to look at is why and where the fantasising kicks in. Some people start fantasising and feel the urge to commit when they know there is no actual chance of it happening.
This post really neatly pulls together many themes into one framework. Thanks, Natalie!
One of the issues is how we define commitment, and at what level of commitment we’re willing to settle. Some of my friends are in marriages and ostensibly have commitment, but their version of commitment would not necessarily always count for me. Of course, relationships vary and change over time and due to circumstances – there are times of more or less connection – but the point is that commitment itself does not always mean commitment in the fullest sense. People in apparently steady relationships really can exhibit some kooky behaviour.
I can relate to what you said, Sule. I too feel relationship-ready and I am nothing if not conscientious and generous in those I have! But I have to admit that being truly vulnerable with someone scares me, and I think this relationship with the AC – and it’s my only experience of it, but served as a concentrated dose of all sorts of other things that often come up in my relationships generally – showed me just how much. When I say vulnerability, I am not talking about dependent or needy. Vulnerability, to me, as is about being exposed, but in a strong, mutual way. I think the reason AC seemed like a plausible and attractive co-pilot was because I knew that he was more commitment-shy (cough, cough) than I am so I thought that if I could focus on his issues, I could be in the role of the apparently steady leader and get through unnoticed.
There is something of the careering towards the cliff aspect to being with a narcissist. The idealization stage with the AC made me feel like I could finally make the leap, in ways I haven’t felt before. Then, true to form, just as we were about to jump (move in together, transition to ‘real’ relationship), he aborted. Essentially, and to use a different metaphor, I nearly pulled off a big heist, only to get stopped at customs. He kept going without me.
So what I am now thinking about is in keeping with the things Grace says – what is it about the slow, honest, vulnerable process of love with a commitment-ready man that scares me? To be honest, I haven’t exactly been inundated with offers of this sort – these days I am beset by men of dubious intent. But the question is still there.
I am excited though about working on my self-esteem and personal goals, fostering my friendships, focusing on family and a healthy life, and, hopefully, meeting someone at the same water level. If it doesn’t happen, it doesn’t happen, but at least I won’t be living something fraught and dishonest, which is what I was heading for with the beloved AC.
Elle, I couldn’t have said it better. (Seriously, I couldn’t have.) I think we have shared a very similar experience. These days, I just wonder why I was the only one who didn’t understand that it was all an illusion. I *felt* committed, but maybe it was just to the idealized version of what was on offer. Ah, hindsight.
Wishing you and others here the very best going forward…
Hi SN. Yes, you need to be in the reality with what is actually on offer to be in the position to commit. Being committed to the dream is not the same thing!
Thanks for your earlier reply, NML. That’s my first one from you! I’m back a few days later because this post has really been on my mind (heck, all of your posts make for challegning, excellent food for thought. It’s been easy to focus on the other person’s perceived non-committal ways, but my choices suggest some (ha!) ambivalence on my part as well. At least this year, though thru heartbreaking circumstances, I’ve learned to identify and prioritize what I want and to let that guide me in future. I was aimless and unclear about these things before, and probably just drawn to the familiar by default.
I do think that I’ve been over-focused on the other person being pleased with me and liking me, rather than asking whether i am happy and likely to get what I’m looking for as well. My first thoughts when someone *I* haven’t picked to obsess about shows interest are anxious ones: “What will he want from me? What if I can’t provide it? He’ll just leave eventually.” Absolute fear of rejection, and from someone I hardly even know. After thinking about this post some more, I realized that I can take a good deal of the pressure off of myself in future should I ever meet someone new. It’s not up to me to make things work, or to be what someone else is looking for. I only need to be me and to keep my eyes open to discern whether the person I’m with might be a positive addition to my life. I need to be at ease with letting go and moving on if it’s just not a good fit. (Phantom relationships are just that: nothingness). Feels like a revelation, and I guess I’ve been making things unnecessarily tough on myself this whole time. Self-protection, or self-sabotage? I’m looking forward to just being and letting whatever will be, be. I hand over control of the universe to another (like I was ever holding the reins 🙂
Thank you, NML!
Hi Elle. There are various stages of commitment and the fact of the matter is that actually commitment isn’t just about bagging and tagging and saying ‘boyfriend’ ‘girlfriend’ ‘fiance’ ‘husband’ ‘wife’. One of the things I’m about to write about is our obsession with having a title but a title means nothing without all the action and experience to back it up. Being married to someone who is not actually committed is not actually a commitment. Being in a long term relationship that’s not actually going anywhere isn’t a commitment either. Fear of commitment is linked into fear of intimacy which is about fearing what results from getting close to people and being exposed and vulnerable. When that fear is greater than the desire to do and be your utmost best in a relationship and forge a healthy relationship, there are problems. Having a little fear is natural but if you have healthy beliefs and choose healthy partners, taking a leap of faith is not so scary. People do it all the time.
I can relate to this one – after the last ExEUM/AC I was very much a commit phobe didn’t want to get hurt again – had to spend time licking my wounds so to speak. I met a wonderful loving caring man and got to that first cliff – living together – and pulled back. BUT this time I explained how I felt and why I felt the way I did – I needed more time and he gave it to me. So when it finally was time to take the next leap it was a mutual happy one. It is important to recongize in yourself what holds you back or in for that matter – its ususally you – and that’s something you can do something about! I am so worth the effort.
Another great one Nat.
So well said Movedup. The important thing as you said is recognising what holds you back. It’s very easy to look at the other person and say that it’s them holding you back. It’s not.
great thanks for this; this happened to me so i decided enough is a enough and to fly regardless – i applied the NCR and made a commitment to myself to find the love and kindness i deserve.
Keep flying Wahwah!
LOL Natalie your articles always make me go “Oops!” I am so guilty of doing this. This article corresponds to a thought I’ve started having lately about a relationship that recently ended: wouldn’t I want someone who already knows how to respect me (and others) and be committed to me without my having to tell them to or show them how? The love (friendship, even!) would flow way more naturally that way…
Exactly Robin! Why are we trying to raise men from the ground up and teach them basics? Why are we trying to turn water into wine!?! It shouldn’t have to be this hard!
I am totally a bird!!!
the problem is that I feel like no one will like me who I think is as good as him in terms of the qualities I look for in a boyfriend.. I believe that no one with a good job, good looking, good family background, same religion, both vegetarians, close in age, will be interested in me and be willing to commit to me.
I know people say well would you rather have someone who is loving and treats you well and is ready for committment, but I want both: All those qualites listed above and the guy who can’t wait to commit to me and treat me very well.
What should I do?? Anny feedback would help! Thank so much!!
good looking is not very important, good family background is not important, same religion – questionable, lots of religious people are horrid. Why close in age? if you’re both adults, ten years either way isn’t an issue. There you go, that’s opened up your options!
Amen Grace!
Hi Paradoxical_i You need to examine your beliefs about relationships and yourself and I suggest you check out my workbook get out of stuck. You also need to examine these ‘values’ that you have because being totally honest with you, you will miss the point of why relationships do and don’t work if you continue to focus on stuff that means very little and adds nothing to the relationship.
What does him having a good job tell you? Assholes have good obs.
What does him being good looking tell you? Assholes often are good looking. It makes it easier to overlook their dodgy qualities.
What does him being from a good family background tell you? Are you suggesting that if someone had all great qualities and characteristics and treated you with love, care, trust, and respect, that him not having a good family background would make a difference?
Same religion? OK but remember the pool gets shallower the more things you have.
Both veggies? OK but again, someone can be a vegetarian and be an asshole.
See here is the trap for you: You are assuming that if you meet someone that possesses all of these qualities that you value, possibly because you possess these qualities yourself, that all of this stuff will correlate to the rest of them and make them someone you should be with. It doesn’t. You are focused on the wrong things which you are free to focus on, but you will continue to miss the point of why your relationships are not working, because you choose to look for insubstantial stuff that doesn’t mean jack and forget that you need to share common values. Someone could be a vegetarian and be the same religion, but that doesn’t mean you are destined to be together and it doesn’t mean you share the same values.
Thank you Grace and NML.
You are both right, and I know none of those things matter if the person doesn’t treat you right. His words didn’t match his actions.
The thing is I know if it was the right girl, he would treat her so well. I’m just sad that it is not me.
I just don’t understand why it is so hard. I miss him so much and i fear that I won’t find anybody that can treat me well AND has the checklist stuff. I don’t want to settle on him or anyone else who cant make me fully happy.
That was pure poetry!!
All I need to try to find out is why I need validation, life would be plain sailing if it were not for that fact.
Thanks for a great blog.
i blame the parents. seriously. but i’m getting past it with counsellor number five. yeah, my parents were so bad it’s taken me over thirty years to get over it.
Hi Grace, how we are emotionally schooled and the relationships with our parents do have a huge impact from them. It’s making sense out of it and addressing those beliefs that makes a huge difference so you can move on from them and create your own identity without the shackles of those experiences.
Hi Susan – I suggest you read this.
Natalie asks us to ask ourselves: “But more importantly – if you are involved with someone who is commitment resistant, you need to examine your own capacity to commit and ask yourself: Why, if I genuinely want love, care, trust, and respect within a committed relationship, am I investing myself in someone who during my experience of being with them is not capable of it?”
That’s a damn good question-I wish I knew why.
I’m not sure we need to know ‘why’ we are like this. We could spend the rest of our lives psycho-analysing ourselves (and believe me I’ve done it to death) and getting no-where or not very far. I believe if we now know what we want, realise what our limits have been (thank you Nat) we just need to ‘change our behaviour’, then, the feelings usually follow. I do this in lots of areas of my life now, not just with men/relationships, even at work. I just change something I recognise as being ‘limiting’ and ‘hey presto’ it starts to fit as a new me.
Hey Kim! Good to hear from you. It is incredibly important to know your limits – they don’t trap you, they set you free and teach you to respect yourself, for others to respect you and to give you a signal when something isn’t right. It’s good to hear that you are making great changes.
Brilliant, absolutely brilliant. This analogy paints a picture so to the point, says it all. And Grace with the derelict parents, I totally understand. Yes, it is all right to blame the parents. Everyone will tell you to “stop living in the past” and “get over yourself” and “stop blaming everyone for your problems” etc etc ad nauseum–but when you hear these comments, consider the source. These are selfish people, devoid of empathy or any shred of human compassion. When you pay good money to see a professional counsellor and they specifically ask you to start probing the past so you can get on with your future, then you find the real deal is what your gut was telling you all along. We are products of our environment, after all. And to those who would dispute, do your research first.
Thankfully, no one does tell me that. I am EXTREMELY self-sufficient, poised, and somewhat aloof except with people I trust. No-one would dare say that to me. But if they did I would ignore. They weren’t there, they didn’t live it.
When my counsellor – who has been in the field a long time – tells me that my childhood was “extraordinary” (and not in a good way), I must finally acknowledge that it was, and that this must have an effect. After all, if good parenting has an effect then so must bad parenting. Otherwise we might as well be brought up by wolves. Though that would have worked out better for me!
Natalie has posted some reflections on her parents, worth a look if you are puzzling over why attractive, intelligent, competent women throw themselve at men who don’t value them at all. When I first read her reflections I thought “it’s not that bad” then I realised it WAS bad, and that I am not really able to tell what constitutes bad treatment. So, yeah, enter assclown.
Hi Grace. I know the ‘it’s not that bad’ feeling – I was saying that to myself until recent years. The thing is, it doesn’t matter if someone else had it worse or it’s not ‘that bad’ – what matters is that it still causes damage and pain. When we are used to witnessing bad stuff, we become a bit blase about it, numb. It’s because it’s perceived as normal even though in the wider sense it’s not.
Hi Jessica. It is that recognition that our behaviour has a foundation in something and it has a reasoning and beliefs powering it that can ultimately set us free. We’re not born an island – we do have parents and they do indeed raise us. They’re not infallible and some leave us with a long lasting legacy that we have to challenge when we’re adults to set ourselves free.
Hi Dawn. It’s often down to not feeling good enough, being afraid of being vulnerable and putting ourselves out there, and basically not loving ourselves enough.
If that is true, the sad fact is that I’ve been committment phobic then since high school. Pathetic, to be raised with such fear of intimacy or inability to know it and find it.
And now? Now that I have learned to live alone and not be lonely, I cringe from the very idea of even trying anymore with anyone.
I don’t cry at night anymore, and have no desire to risk it in the future. See, still a committment-phobe.
Either that, or smart enough to know that a relationship isn’t necessarily the be all and end-all, the holy grail of life.
Huh. Sour grapes.
Hi Annie. I think it’s that you will move from one end of the spectrum to the other and eventually move into somewhere more balanced between the two. You’re right that it’s commitment avoidance but it’s going back to addressing the beliefs of why – it feels damn scary to put yourself out there, to risk yourself because you likely associate that with negative stuff. It’s a self protective measure and you will learn to trust yourself. Ask yourself what story you’re telling yourself to make it easier to be self-protective. (((hugs))))
My problem is that i don’t want to get married or have children, i want someone who has his own life and respects that i have mine, who can make promises and keep them, who will be my friend as well as my partner. I have negative associations with relationships because my parents were very unhappily married, but stayed together ‘for the kids’. This taught me that the people who matter will never abandon you, even to the detriment of their own happiness, but it also taught me that relationships are prisons. I have to get over this mentality or i’m not good to anyone.
I also fear getting hurt and trusting someone after my EUM experience. I don’t want to be vulnerable. But as Fearless said in a different comment on a different article, i need to focus more on trusting MYSELF and knowing that i will always act in my own best interests.
It’s an ongoing process, but one i am really enjoying! 🙂
Don’t write marriage off so quickly. I know plenty of married couples who go on fantastic adventure holidays, keep animals, keep a country cottage, run a foster home, party ( way more wildly than single me), ride etc etc. It’s not all sitting at home and arguing!
I never wanted to get married as a kid, but looking at my parent’s marriage why would I? Now, I’m 45 I’m coming round to the idea but also accept that I’m STILL not ready and i could be pushing 60 before I am, lol. I can be really slow sometimes, sigh.
So, at least be open to the idea. To share your life into old age with someone you trust, and who wants the best for you, isn’t so bad.
Hi Minky. Whatever your choices are in life it’s about getting behind them and making them a positive, not negative choice. There’s nothing wrong with not wanting marriage and kids, but your basis for it currently originates from something negative and that is distorted. It will cloud intimacy even in situations where marriage and children are not in the offing. There can be an internal signal that makes you hesitant just being in *any* relationship because there can be the fear of these things arising and the anxiety about it. You have to be vulnerable for love. You also have to trust yourself otherwise you will not trust others. Keep focusing on you 🙂
I do love this post! However, i do not agree that deep down i am afraid of commitment. I do commitment very well actually! I have been married before; i do not cheat (in fact i am a very loyal partner) and I have always been in proper relationships with men who wanted me and had no issues with committing to me (to my knowledge i have never been cheated on before. I have never been in a casual relationship before and I have always been used to being someone’s girlfriend….even i sleep with them very early on, a proper gf/bf relationship still always develops between us (i slept with my ex husband the same day i met him and he still married me).
So when i slept with my ex assclown very soon after meeting with him and then he subsequently resisted being in a relationship with me, i was surprised as that has never happened before. I believe the reason i hung on in there so long with him was because of 7 things:
1) Seeking validation
2) Ego
3) I am stubborn, determined and want to “win”
4) I did not want to be WRONG
5) Wanting a return on my investment
6) Fear he would commit to someone else as soon as i let him go and therefore confirm that there was something wrong with me, not him
7) THE SEX WAS OFF THE CHAIN! LOL
Basically, I am used to getting what i want in life. I am used to men finding me attractive and wanting to be with me. I am fairly successful in life and, for example, whenever i go for a job interview i always get the job. Things do tend to go my way. I am not a failure. Whatever i set my sights on in life, i tend to achieve it. Whenever i have expressed interest in a man, i have invariably found that he is interested too and i get to be with him PROPERLY. But not this assclown!! He was only interested in sex, not being in a relationship. This hurt my ego. BADLY. I begun to feel that something was wrong with me, even though friends and family always remind me how wonderful i am. I could no longer believe them as all i kept thinking was “if i am so wonderful then why doesn’t he want me?” so yes, i was seeking validation from him.
Nowadays i believe the reason he rejected me is because deep down he believe of his own low self esteem issues. He admitted to feeling worthless and having trust issues. I believe he felt i was too good for him and he would not be able to measure up being my man (on oaccasion he would boast to his friends about my achievements). But it took me a while for me to arrive at this conclusion.
I have always prided myself on being able to “read” people and i strongly believed that deep down he did love and care about me but had a hard time admitting these feelings out of fear of being vulnerable. I thought that we would end up together in time and i did not want to be wrong about this, and i certainly did not want to entertain the idea that perhaps i was WRONG and he actually felt nothing for me and was simply using me for sex.
Lastly, he would always tell me he was “not ready” for a relationship. I took him at face value and hung on in there. Then one day, he announced to me that he asked someone else to be his girlfriend!! When that ended after just 6 months i continued seeing him (my mistake) and then I recently found out he was already in a relationship with another woman!! Basically he had 2 girlfriends at the same time!!! What a total douchebag! One of them lasted 6 months and the other one is still ongoing (but i never knew the current girlfriend existed until just the other day). The fact that 2 women were made girlfriends during the course i had been involved with him absolutely destroyed me. He made me feel like there’s something wrong with me (no other man has made me feel this way) and i started to think “why them and not me?” especially since they were not as attractive or as successul as me.
Anyway, he’s in prison now and his girlfriend (of over a year!!) is now 6 months pregnant with his child! I never even knew she existed until the other day. She’s apparently recently moved into his flat and I now fear that this new baby (along with his prison experience, which will give him a chance to reflect on his life evaluate his priorities) will change him for the better and he will skip off into the sunset after his release with his girlfriend (who is waiting for him); their new baby, get married, and live happily ever after when it was me who invested so much of my time, energy and love into this man (who basically did not care about me and used me all along – what a bitter pill to swallow).
But no, i cannot see how i was ever afraid of “taking flight” and being in a relationship. To the contrary, relationships are all i know. Rather, It was the above 7 points that kept me with him for so long. I was never afraid of commitment back then.
If i am afraid of commitment, it would be NOW, because i don’t ever want to be hurt again, like he hurt me. This was my one and only assclown experience. Never again.
I used to think the same – that I was good at relationships and commitment because I had a number of longterm relationships, including a marriage. I too am good at reading people – I have been very successful in customer service, sales and dealing with client complaints by being a good listener and communicator, not by being pushy.
However, I have had to reconsider – if I was good at commitment one of those relationships would have lasted, surely?
I’m not doubting your assessment of yourself, but if it happens to you again, it’s worth thinking about.
Ah, wish I knew your secret for getting all those great men! haha
Just wanted to say that I do think the “go-getter” attitude, which makes so many bright women successful in their careers, can actually be very detrimental when applied to relationships. A person’s love, unfortunately, cannot be won through hard work & lots of investment. It has to come naturally. And I actually think the more you show you are willing to “work” for it, the less appealing you become in the other person’s eyes.
We all need to learn how to just walk away when the other person doesn’t share our interest. It’s SO hard to do, and yet infinitely better than the alternative.
P.S. On the hot sex, just want to suggest that maybe “bad boy” sex is always the hottest, for precisely that reason – it’s not guaranteed to us, we feel insecure about where we stand with the guy creating sparks, etc.
Snowboard, yes i agree with you. My “go getter” approach did indeed backfire on me. On reflection, i reckon if i acted like i did not want a relatonship, he probably would have pursued me for one!
I do not have a penchant for assclowns. I have only had ONE AC experience. However, i have been soooooo burned by this that i am now afraid to love. I fear my heart has gone stone cold in a bid for self protection now. When me and my best friend go out to clubs and parties, she has mentioned to me that i have chaged and i am quite abrupt with the men who show interest in us. Not good i know, but i cannot help it nowadays.
I have made a vow to myself that I will never ever ever ever be the fallback girl again. I will never accept a casual relationship again. If i ever hear the words “i’m not ready for a reltionship” again, i will be out the door so fast my feet won’t touch the ground.
Hi Sweetie187. Those seven things you listed are not exactly the hallmarks of healthy commitment. It’s like going after a prize and the fact that he didn’t jump to your beat made him all the more interesting to you but that doesn’t mean you actually wanted him, you just wanted to be right and ‘win’ because you expect life to go your own way. What you need to be careful of is coasting into relationships. I get a sense of how much each guy wants you but i don’t get a sense of how much you want them. On top of that, being as successful as you are, no offence, but why exactly do you want a prison bird? Surely you can do better than that. This guy does not fit with the way that you have described yourself. Surely you would be underachieving and punching below your weight messing with this guy?
What you have is a case of the I Can’t Believe He Doesn’t Want Me-Itis. You know he’s not worthy of you or your time and that for whatever reason, you were messing with a guy who is ‘beneath you’ but by the same token, as a result of knowing you’re too good for him, you assume he SHOULD want you and can’t understand why he doesn’t. It’s like ‘what the eff is going on? I’m a successful, attractive woman who can do much better than him and yet HE doesn’t want me. What is wrong with me why this man doesn’t want me?’
Something went wrong before you met him. If you were so committed etc before you were with him, you have to ask yourself what the hell happened that a man like this would be so attractive to you.
This guy has absolutely no morals (as clearly shown by his personal life/”relationships” and his business “life”/crime-causing) and you want him? If you got him, then you wouldn’t want him! This is TOTALLY about validation and his elusiveness making you “want” him “more”. You don’t want HIM, you want validation. It’s all about your ego. He projected his own need for validation onto you, used you to get what he needed (validation), and now has 100% total control over someone else (he deep down knows he can’t have 100% control over you). Even if he was totally irresponsible in getting someone pregnant, HE CHOSE TO BE IRRESPONSIBLE, HE CHOSE TO ASSUME SUCH A BIG RISK (pregnancy) with this woman.
If he comes back, tell him, “Who might you be?”
Exactly. And I can say, that I felt the very same about my xeum. Ultimately, I fell into the trap of WHY doesn’t this loser want ME!? But I had to ask myself: Don’t you think he senses that deep down you’re not fully ‘into him’? Of course he does! And doesn’t he, don’t we all deserve more? Yes we do. If any other ‘she’ can give him what he needs, on his level, or at least give it a shot, then I have to let him go, and more power to them. At times, I can finally wish him/them the best…just because I pretty much wish everyone the best, and he’s pretty much become ‘everyone’ to me (after 10 months NC – and the best word I can think of, presumptuous as it is, is forgiveness). Isn’t it a god forsaken assclown thing to do anyway – keep someone around to validate your ego? Yes it is. Guilty.
@sweetie187
that man was definiftly not for you, what a messy life, and by experience, I can tell you that for man or woman like that, there will never be a happily ever after. It would need to be a God intervention for them to change, and sometimes not even the hand of God can change them because they keep running away from it.
Yes Natalie, you are correct. My ego did get the better of me. By the way, i am no longer involved wih him. By the time he went to prison (just 3 weeks ago) we were already done. Of course i don’t want a “prison bird”!! You asked what was it that attracted him to me? To be honest with you i believe it was the incredible sex that did it for me. He was the best in bed i ever had (we were perfectly compatible in this area) and he told me i was the best he’d ever had. So we were sexually addicted to one another and i thrived on the knowledge that he found me irresistable. Where it all went wrong, is when as time passed, i grew feelings for him. I cannot separate love and sex forever-more, so i tried to turn it into a relationship and encountered hs resistence. In other past relationships i’ve had, sex and love went hand in hand, There was never an issue of me having to ask a man for a relartionship; it just happened naturally.
But the assclown just wanted things to remain the same and did not want the rules to change. At the same time he was confusing me saying he was “not ready” (ie implying that we would get together at some point). What i now realise is that readiness had nothing to do with it. He just did not want to commit to ME and he used the “not ready” line to keep me hanging so he could continue to have sex with me. I took his rejection of me very badly. It really stung to come to terms with the fact that I was ok to have sex with but not ok to be his girlfriend! I was not used to being USED! I also believe he was jealous/envious of me and therefore his way of getting even and feeling “equal” was to deny me the very thing i wanted in order to maintain the upperhand over me.
I do believe that people do have the capacity to change but i also believe that people tend to have to reach rock bottom first (eg experience an epiphany) before real change occurs. Had this dude not gone to prison i would have bet any money on the fact that he was not going to change his lying, cheating, selfish, narcissistic ways. However, i fear that his prison experience could potentially be a genuine catalyst for great changes in him. He now has a baby on the way; a girlfriend who is waiting for him on the outside; and now i am out of his life (so no distractions for him). In other words, He now has a reason to change and focus on being a good boyfriend, potential husband and father. What’s eating me is that i won’t be on the receiving end of the new him. Any chnages he makes for the better will be received by the girlfriend (who proably had no idea of his cheating ways), even though i have known him longer than she has, and have invested more time in him than she has. I know this is all irrationale and i should not even care or be thinking this way. But for some reason, i am. This whole girlfriend and baby-on-the-way thing is just another slap to my face. He gets to move on and start a new life with the woman he probably loves and i get left in the cold looking like a total fool.
what on earth makes you think he loves her?
Grace, i am not one of those people who believe that because you are not faithful to somebody it AUTOMATICALLY means you do not love them. So yes, i do believe he loves her. I found out she is well known to his friends and family members; they went on holiday together; she is in his public life; they go out together; she is now living in his flat and they are about to have a baby together. So yes, i do believe they are emotionally connected to each other in a way that he was not to me. As much as i wanted him to be emotionally connected to me (as i was to him), unfortunately for me, he was only sexually connected to me, and that is not good enough. He has clearly put her first, over me. She has the official “girlfriend” title (i was only ever referred to as a friend) and they will probably marry, especially since she is pregnant with his child. And that hurts. I opened my heart to him and i got burned.
Ouch this hurts because my story was/is pretty much the same. After the honeymoon period and the initial split, for the next 5 years I was good for the sex, but not for the g/f status, this really hurt me especially as the new g/f was so much less attractive, successful and independent than me. How on earth could he choose her not me?
It took a long time for me to get it, but I think we always knew that I was not right for him any more than he was for me outside of the bedroom. We’re at opposite ends of the social and educational scale which never bothered me but….. in the long term would have been a problem due to the lack of any common ground at all.
l also realised that by sticking around I was avoiding the chance of a real relationship with anyone else, just as he was doing the same by triangling with me and his new g/f. Actually emotionally we are all probably perfect for each other. Three equally broken people engaged in a dance of avoidance.
I read something years ago along similar lines to Nat’s post, ‘two birds with a broken wing will not together make a bird capable of flying’.
So maybe three people with two broken wings each, would produce the most god awful totally destructive explosion. I have bailed out.
Are you saying he has cheated on her? And he’s in prison. This person’s “love” is not worth having. You could easily interpret it another way – he wants the approval of his friends and family and is flaunting his fertility by parading his pregnant girlfriend. Or he has an investment in the baby and decides to take the mother along with it.
Nothing you’ve said proves that he loves her. Not that it really matters.
Count your blessings that he is out of your life. And I do hope for your sake that he is.
Yes Grace, he has cheated on her. With me (and probably others too) but i never knew this girl existed until a few days ago when she approached me on facebook. When i looked at her profile thats when i saw billions of photos of the two of them together in various locations (eg on holiday abroad, at someone else’s wedding and also at someone else’s christening) and her “in a relationship with (AC’S NAME)” status. Obviously, this girl has recently smelled a rat or else she would not have tried to contact me to find out if i knew him! There are loads of things from me in his flat (with my name on) and she has probably stumbled on some of these items now that she has moved into his flat whilst he’s in prison. But as she is currently 6 months pregnant i decided not to distress her even further by letting her know that a) i do know him and b) i know him intimately and c) he is a selfish lying cheating assclown. If she was not pregnant i would not have hesitated to inform her to the full extent of her boyfriend’s cheating ways. But she is vulnerable now and she is likely to be 100% invested in him at this juncture. In fact, she is on facebook talking about how she misses him and how marriage is her next goal after the baby is born. LOL. I can tell her for a certainty that a ring on his finger is not going to put a halt to his lying, cheating ways…….unless of course, he had experienced an epiphany whilst being in prison??
I’ve known him since October 2007 and according to her facebook profile she got into a relationship with him in the summer of last year. So he hid her from me all this time!! He made out to me that he was single and “not ready for a relationship” when he was actually in a relationship with HER!
I hear you when you say his love is not worth having and i agree, if it’s the case he has not changed. Another disgusting thing is that at one point he had 2 official girlfriends at the same time (this pregnant girl and another girl) but the other one dumped him after 6 months. I knew about that girl but not this one. But i think he valued the other girl more, so this pregnant one was his second best but she has now become his first as they are still together whilst the other is long gone. LOL
Its funny, because come to to think of it, he has always told me he wanted to get married one day and have a child with someone who has not had children before (he says this but this is his 4th child, with 4 different women. What a hypocrite!!) but it looks like he now has what he wanted as this will be her first child. I think he is with her to cultivate an image of himself as a stable, mature, “normal family guy” to his friends and family and gain their approval, so yes i see what you are saying. This is why i believe he will go as far as to marry her when he is released from prison in order to complete the ideal he is carving for himself. Because she is going to be giving him a baby, I believe (and fear) he is going to use their relationship as a platform to make positive change in terms of “settling down” and turning over a new leaf. He must have had plenty of time in his jail cell to reflect on his life and think about changing for the better? I believe his prison experience could well serve as his ROCK BOTTOM and be a catalyst for change.That’s why i am mad as hell, because she gets the new and improved version of him i wanted, even though i invested more than her. He probably saw me as unsuitable as i already have children so in his tiny mind, i did not fit the ideal partner he wanted.
Yes i am glad he is out of my life as i do need to move on. But i am reeling over this experience. I cannot believe i wasted 3 years on this man who gave me nothing in return!! Not a nice thing to have to face up to.
@Sweetie187 –
Well I know all to well that irrational mind playing tricks on you. I do it to myself and have been stuck there for the last 2-3 days.
First of all – prison does not always change people for the better – my old AC from 22 yrs ago was in and out and it NEVER changed him. Still the same AC!!
Second – so what she has the title of GF – I had that, his family loved me, even one of his friends said to me in front of him that I was a “keeper”. He still did exactly as he wanted, his terms, doing all his crap behind my back and his family’s back – has made me look like I am the “insecure” one – because they don’t know what he does – he’s a liar!!
Third, feel sorry for this girl – the poor thing is going to have a baby with him – yuck!! Now she is tied to him for FOREVER!! And when she ends up dropping the kid off to visit daddy – she will have to see him with his long string of girls as times goes on. My last AC I just broke up with had told me he wanted “a footbal team” of kids. Married a woman who didn’t want kids, they divorced, and he got some girl he didn’t even love pregnant 1 month after his divorce, told me he didn’t even love her but did the right thing asking her to marry him – she said no, then when she was 8 months pregnant was calling his ex-wife begging her to get back together – she died in a tragic car accident. His son is now 17 – he has not seen him in 4 yrs – the poor mother had to see him (the AC) with at least 13 women after she had the baby with him. Wow – just the kind of life I want – NOT!!!
Aimee, thanks for this. Your story highlights the worst that can potentially happen as a result of getting involved with a man who is a perpetual offender.
Yes i agree that perhaps my mind is playng irrational tricks on me. However, I would be more convinced that prison would not change him if this was not the first time he was ever in prison and he is a hardened criminal.
But as he is not a hardened criminal and this is his first time in prison, i do believe that he has a good chance of turning his life around, particularly since in my eyes he now has a pretty good reason to change, what with having a pregnant girlfriend to come home to, marry and make a brand new start with.
I guess only time will tell as to which way it’s gonna go…………..
“From not wanting them to be with someone else if they’re going to change, to wanting them to learn their lessons and change, to wanting to learn your lessons and getting the chance to try out your new knowledge on them – it’s all about seeking validation. ”
This was vey familiar to me. I think I DO want him to have the epiphany and admit he treated me like crap. I DO want him to be sorry and to miss me. And I am notorious for being a “hater” because he has moved on and flown into the sunset with the size small new chic. I’m angry that he changed for her and not for me. He committed to her but not to me…
How do I stop wanting the validation from him? It’s not coming– In my rational mind I know that– we don’t talk, he’s moved on and is happy– but somewhere deep down I keep hoping that validating day will come. How do I stop?
Hi Dee-Dee i am afraid i am in the same ditch as you! That quote also rings big bells for me too.
Up until the day i found out about his pregnant girlfriend, I kept thinking that he is going to have an epiphany in his jail cell and realise how badly he treated me and when he comes out, he will contact to me to apologise.
But now that i have since found out he has a pregnant girlfriend waiting for him, i am afraid that day is never going to come now. He will simply swan off with her, get married, play happy families and forget about me.
Hey Sweetie187 and Dee-Dee, I know it’s super hard (and I am quite sure I am going to come across as perched on a high horse – when in reality, you can back track my comments and see that I wasn’t always so composed!) – but I can see you guys going down into that bad territory of massive comparisons and final judgments. The facts are not all in. Life is a longer race than this.
Maybe they do have stronger or more committed feelings for someone else (giving them the benefit of the doubt here, i.e., that they are capable of the degree of change), but I wouldn’t infer from this that you’re faulty. It’s a matter of timing and preference, and unless you were being destructive and objectively crap (and even then…some people get into this stuff)…then I can’t see how it makes you, as a human, a less worthy and wonderful person.
Since when did these guys have that all-knowing power? We know ourselves better than anyone. Since when are they bringing perfection to the table, and therefore all the so-called disharmony is due to us?
I remember when my ex-bf (not to be confused with the ex-AC) got a new girlfriend, and she had the EXACT things I felt he was lacking in me and I had about 5 days of being frantic about it, making what were, I can see now, ridiculous (and simply not entirely truthful, let alone helpful) conclusions about what this all meant about me. Yes, my ex chose her instead of getting back with me (which was vaguely on the cards), and so it was, to some extent a personal slight, but the truth is, I didn’t actually want to go through with being with him. I’d done that and it didn’t work. I wanted to be chosen, to receive some sort of wink from him that I was extra special. But, I quickly realised that I was fighting for something that what was not truly good for me, and certainly was not good for him. In fact, I was having a tantrum about the fact that I wasn’t centrally important anymore.
I now see that she genuinely has a better (i.e. more functional) set of qualities for him, but not in a way that makes me anything less. I am now super happy about that (and when you truly love someone, you really do want them to be happy) and, because I got over myself, we’re friends. You don’t always have to lose in this (though you often have to lose a friend in an AC, but that’s not a loss).
The BEST thing I did then and the BEST thing I have done with the AC – whose rejection of me, I assure you, was as decisive and detailed as it gets – is just to let it go for a bit, and say, ‘You know what, I don’t actually have all the facts, let alone the perspective, to judge this one. It might not even be my situation to judge.’ Try to hold onto what you know about life, which is that following this panic, this need for control and approval, and making these judgments, NEVER creates anything good and lovely.
I know it’s hard. I felt devalued, but then, I kind of just decided that it was just one person’s opinion of me, and it probably wasn’t entirely valid anyway – chasers don’t really know and love you anyway, so why judge their treatment of you as if they did? – and, that it really wasn’t the sort of behaviour that impressed me anyway. Plus, cads like these say all sorts of things to people, especially those they envy, but that doesn’t always make it true. It’s often just a lash-out to someone who will take it. You don’t have to take every message from the outside world as valid and useful feedback.
More to the point, the BEST thing about this experience is that you get to punch your own ticket, maybe even for the first time.
The race is long, my friends! xxx
This was so eloquently written and the analogy is soooooo accurate. I never considered myself a commitment phobe, or having daddy issues, but I am and I do. It’s scary to think that you chose someone who’d disappoint you…the 2nd time around he said he felt like I was just waiting for him to mess up again. And I was. And he did. I tried to be with a ‘him’ that didn’t exist. Even though I question the when and how of breaking it with him again (it would seem like a petty reason to others, I’m sure), I never question the why. The straw broke the camel’s back and I got tired of feeling like I was making effort and offering commitment to someone who wanted neither. It really did feel like an uphill battle and I honestly did have the thought bubble that your bird had ‘if he does it, then I’ll do it’. That in and of itself is a red flag. That you’re with someone and doubt their dedication to doing something to make you happy and limiting what you, by extension, are willing to give speaks volumes.
I cried alot, I was angry alot when I was with him, always waiting to see if enough crumbs could equal a loaf, but they never did & I was still hungry.
Even this morning I wondered if he’d ‘fly’ with the next bird …then I forced myself to focus on myself and choosing someone who wants & needs to ‘fly’ with me. Thanks NML, this site is my multivitamin, the daily dose reminds me I deserve better – in a relationship and for myself.
Great article! I wanted to read everyone’s reply before I commented, but felt the need to share, so I hope I do not repeat.
I have known that I have had issues with intimacy since I was young. Grew up in alcoholic family – was the caretaker. Done tons of therapy (various modes, etc.), spiritual work and actualization of self.
I jumped from a 5 1/2 yr relationship with an EUM to an abusive AC player for 3 yrs – only one day inbetween. I was also messed up on alcohol and drugs. Got clean & sober at 21 and was single for 3 yrs working on self. Made sure from there on out to stay single inbetween to do my work on myself so I didn’t carry “stuff” to the next one. Did a LD relationship for 1 yr only to move to Seattle to find him in bed with another girl – back to the drawing board – more deep therapy and step work in the “program”. Both the old EUM (10 yrs later) and AC (4 yrs later + just emailed a couple weeks ago – which makes that 22 yrs later – ignored and blocked him) tried to get me back but I did not go back – too much self respect.
Found a closet alcoholic, helped him get into treatment and broke up. Single for 8 years. Through all of this I worked on myself – the 8 yrs I was single I opened a business that was a dream since I was 16. I was ok being single, not having sex, but was waiting for a man who wanted the same things – self growth, commitment, same values. I was asked to marry three of them and said no when I was younger.
3 years ago – the HS crush looked me up after 28 yrs – oh he said all the right things. His wife (ex) died 17 yrs ago in a tragic car accident, wanted a mature relationship, catholic, monogomous, “talk about everything, work things thru, be honest, on mutual terms”. And I fell hard – I fell for the fantasy, because in hindsight, lots of red flags. I also fell for it because I went to my old journal and found 8 poems I had written about him when I was 15 – 1980. I thought I found my soul mate. Asked me to move in – I said I would like that – but it had only been 3 months and we needed a bigger place for the two of us, lets start looking. No problem – than 5 days later he had girls in his backyard – eye f**cking one that he continued contact with the next two yrs. I became yoyo girl.
I only mention all this for background. I too felt ready to finally commit – when I was younger I wanted to get my s**t together, go to college, travel around the world, grow up so I could be a better parent for my children, have a man that had actualized himself and was ready to settle down and take marriage seriously. I did all that. I had finally made my “relationship” a priority – he is now with one of his ex FB girls. No contact for 42 days now.
I’m tired – I don’t know how much more work I have to do. I do love myself, but at times wonder if I am lovable after all these experiences. The dream of a family is over now – I am 45. I am tired of being the strong girl “working” on her self, looking at MY issues, I’m just tired. I don’t know what else I can do. My therapist who basically refathered me told me years ago after doing many years of work on me and family of orgin work that it was now going to take sometime to find lemonade as there were alot of lemons out there – I too feel that there really is not much to chose from. Did I screw up by not jumping off the cliff with the past men even though I knew I was not going to be happy with an EUM or abusive AC? I thought I did the right thing. I want a commited relationship, to trust, respect, give, receive, am trustworthy, available, vulnerable (just with the wrong ones) I have nothing to hide anymore – I am who I am – flaws and all – and I think whatever man gets me will be very lucky – I want to be lucky too! I WANT AN AVAILABLE MAN.
Aimee, Ramona
Interestingly, I have just gone through this with my counsellor tonight. Basically, we reached the conclusion that if there is any space in my life dedicated to the AC (even if it’s just thinking about him) then there is no space for a decent man to enter. It’s subtle, but a decent man can tell when you’re unavailable. He isn’t going to pursue a relationship with you. Only another AC/EUM will want to know you, and so the cycle continues.
There are decent men of all ages everywhere, we just don’t see them because a part of us, even if it’s the smallest speck, still wants an AC.
Can you honestly say that you have put yourself out there, totally available, with no ex lurking in the background, no negative expectations, no AC on your mind, no bitterness, with hope, positive self-esteem, warmth and optimism?
If you have, and still can’t find a relationship, then maybe it IS time to throw in the towel. Otherwise, we’re being premature.
Wow Grace – Good call out on my definate “not putting myself out there” I just don’t feel motivated to deal with it. I do not want him back but i don’t want to engage either. I am sort of isolating – I really like being alone.
Had one of those fun, but slightly depressing evenings at a party last night – in which a guy whom I went out with for a few dates after the AC (whom I politely rejected because he is a classic EUM) hit on my friend in front of me (and when I say hit on, I mean pinned against the wall and kissed her neck, having just made some speech to me about how he missed me) and, of course, tried to apologise to me after (I didn’t flinch – it just seemed so non-eventful and childish to me as far as he went), then another guy whose long-term girlfriend was in the room was propositioning his female guests to give him a very specific sexual favour, and then I had to give counsel to a younger girl who was upset about something her man was or wasn’t doing. Skewed sample, I know. But still.
Anyway, I did walk out of the party with a sense of balance and untarnished! (And having mostly had a fun, happy night – not really buying into things that seemed desperate and crazed to me). However, it did make me think that I am bloody well putting myself in situations where goodness is unlikely to be found or flourish. Sometimes people aren’t nervy birds, but hormonally-driven, beastly crows.
Thankfully, have to move very soon, so can see this as all a bit of silliness (and a ‘suck it and see’ about the world). But sometimes this stuff can chip away at you.
I am going to focus on optimism and humour (and my work!), and try to shake off the sensitive mood in which I woke up today. Thanks Grace for sharing your learning with us – I am getting there and I am generally cheerful and sensible, but still have that hardness that was made even harder by the AC and some childhood ‘look at me perform’ rubbish in the way.
That’s probably the hardest thing for me right now! After 20 years of a LOT of very hard work on myself I still wish I had 10 more to be really good and solid with the lessons so I could be a great, passionately involved wife and mother. I probably don’t have that though. I’m 40 and never dreamed it would take so long to work through all the layers of trauma, abuse, and bad relationship teaching I’ve experienced. I’ve been molested, date raped, and emotionally abandoned. My father emotionally abandoned me around 7 years old, then my mother abandoned me around 13 (because she saw me as competition!). Every relationship I’ve had she’s tried to undermine and make me choose her over the guy! My family has a history of physical abuse, emotional abuse, and alcoholism to boot! I want to be available. Who wants to be imprisoned in the cycle of tragic relationships? But if you take a leap with a wanker you get screwed and if you don’t the emotional isolation is like torture. Either way it’s crap. I feel your pain, girl!
I just wanted to say I am sorry for such a negative post. Just been real emotional lately and had a major surgery. Again – sorry! I can’t thank all of you enough for all your positive support!
Hi Aimee –
Your post described my feelings exactly. Not negative – just honest. I am so tired too. I’m 44 – no kids and wonder if it’s even worth trying anymore. I barely believe my friends anymore due to the BS ride i took for a year with my EUM AC. Thanks for being so open.
Ramona
hmm this post pretty much sums up my last relationship. I need to stop seeking validation from EUMs or risk really damaging myself. He told me he wasn’t ready right at the start. But relationships are also free therapy – I learned a lot about myself and my boundaries are now clearer. It’s baby steps but I know I’m going to get there in the end even if I don’t actually have a relationship at the end of the day. If a man really wants you he will make the effort. The woman need not do anything but respond.
Like many other women here, I thought I would be the one he would commit to, the one who would stick. I should have seen the red flags right from the very beginning. The dirt bag told me he was a “male slut” and that he’d go to girls’ houses occassionally for shags. This is when I was a bootycall myself and he felt the need to divulge this information, so I wouldn’t think we were anything more (we hadn’t really talked about what we were doing exactly but he’d mention other girls). When he eventually started spending more time with me and throwing me more crumbs than he said any of the other girls had received, I thought I’d won him over and I was one he loved and would have a proper relationship with and commit to.
I think my low self-esteem and abandonment issues with my dad(I am 24 – he left when I was 5 and I’ve never seen him since – wouldn’t even recognise him if I met him on the street) have subconsciously made me seek out relationships with commitment phobic guys. And my mum, well, she’s suffered from depression for longer than I can remember due to being unable to properly provide for her kids following the collapse of her business. Growing up with this has made me feel like I am not worthy of anything good in my life.
Had I found this site a couple of years earlier, I would have learned to work better on my self-esteem issues and not let a mean, arrogant, rude, selfish, saddistic, OCD, grinding-his-teeth-in his-sleep drug-pushing assclown walk into my life and ruin it. What was I thinking??!!! The guy told me he’d slept with more than 500 women – Ginormous red flag. Hullo!!!!!
Sorry, but I had to vent. No one has ever made me as angry as this.
Dear Sonia,
Your story and the story’s of the most women here are very similar to mu own expirience with AO/EUM. Is nothing in my own life that makes me so angry and brings me so much pain as being involved 3 years of my life with this men who really does not care.. and i thougt he was my soul mate because his own issues seems to be a kind of same as my own issues from the childhood. I thought we can help each other become healthy people and fight for our own relationship. A same story as with you and Sweetie187 he wanted me only for sex..my god i’m still trying to understand how could i be so stupid. and the worst thing is that i still can’t let him go..i dont know how can i STOP thinking of him????????? I am more angry at myself because i thougt after almost 4 months NC i schould send him a mail and ask him how he was doing and ofcource he did’t answer.. and he does’t know how hurt i am i can’t belive that people like this exist.. i think because i still not mature enough. he simple does’t care and that hurts it feels like i will never ever be the old person again someone who was always nice and kind happy good looking with so much love in me that i use to share with people around me. He kill’s all this (best) things in me and is no way back.
the only thing that helps me a little is this Nathalie site with her amazing insithfull articels and expirience of you all. So, thank you all for sharing it!!
Natalie, you write the most easy to read, thought provoking and startling articles about how we, victims of EUM and Assclowns, think. This article sums up everything. I can’t thank you enough for what you do. I stumbled upon your accident shortly after finding out my husband of 3 months was having a text-based emotional affair with his employee, along with other cyber and text affairs with ex flings and Internet women, I was searching for what could be wrong with him…I stumbled to baggage reclaim and at first, I soaked up all the articles about EUM and Assclowns like I was a sponge. It finally hit me that there was something very wrong with my now, ex husband. As I continued on my journey, I began to read the articles about why I might be attracted to assclowns/EUM. I was emotionally abused as a child, and have been with one EUM after the other. If it were not for your website, and your kind but blunt articles, I would not be healing or on my journey to being happy with myself. I am light years healthier than I was at this time last year, when I found out about my ex husband’s affairs. I come to your site whenever I feel lost or need inspiration for boosting my self love. Thank you thank you thank you. You have helped me more than my therapist, I recommend your site to my friends who are dealing with similar men.
Natalie – Another classic. One of the best things I realized is that I can see I am getting healthier about all these issues. I no longer feel in the grips of my AC – I think of him very little, see him constantly and feel nothing. It’s liberating and there was a time when I feared this would never happen. The anger and obsessing is gone. I also have walked away from the interest of men I can now instantly recognize as unavailable. More good news. The best news, though, is that I am finally able to focus on me. I can see my role in what has happened. Not like I did before, which was to simply assume blame for everything that went wrong, or the flip side – the “it’s all him, all wrong, all the time” extreme I went to. I am a codependent, drawn to narcissists and commitment phobes because they mirror the poor image I have of myself and the withholding of love feels “familiar”, in that it is how my family’s way of expressing love felt. Knowing all this was the first important step in recognizing and changing the pattern and that change comes from knowing, loving and respecting myself. I have stopped expecting it to happen overnight but being able to see some positive changes is good – it’s like when you are dieting and can actually begin to see a difference. The hard work is paying off. I am truly happier, beginning to discover what it means to take care of myself and figure out who I am. I am also seeing my bad patterns clearly, not as a way of beating up on myself or hating myself but just recognizing ways of interacting with others that I would like to change and that might help me be more pleasant to be around. I have gone through intraspective periods in my life before (usually following a break up or trauma of some sort) but nothing like this. This has been truly transformational. This site has helped immensely and I am very grateful for it. Natalie – I know you are changing lives, because you helped change mine. Thank you.
Great write up Nat! I must say I had been walked to that cliff so many times only to be left dangling there on my own, wondering where the hell he went.
Over the past week or so, I have FINALLY leaped off that cliff by myself. I am a free bird flying on my way to my own happiness. And it feels SO good! I have to say, looking back now, I am glad that he never took that leap with me, it would have been the biggest mistake of my life to have ended up with him. Yes, I have decided to focus on me and my journey in life and focus on my inner happiness, something that he could have never given me! I have foundmyself again at last!
I remember my X said this profoundly crazy thing. Which went something like this ” I can not offer you a real commitment but i need you to trust me 100%” On top of that he was blowing hot/cold, radomly dumping me over really dumb things, changing the goal posts pretty much every week, acting inconsistant, mood swings and had no trust of his own as he was pretty much constantly jealous about me or someone who was chatting to me and that included his own family.
Obvioulsy when someone acts this way you yourself start to pull back slightly as you can see something aint right! I even told him that your asking someone to give 100% trust while in the same breathe your saying i cant commit to you. How dumb is that !?! he even agreed on that day.
The kicker is apparently one of the ridulous reason he gave me for leaving was that i had trust issues 🙂
Talk about projection!!!
@Sweetie187
Every time I come to this site, I always have any lingering question on my mind answered ….. just like that……
You mentioned your difficulty in dealing with the “reformed” him moving on and having a fabulous life with someone else and this is something I have struggled with for a long time……..
I was in a 7 year relationship (or so I thought) where I gave and gave and gave and was encouraged with all varieties of bread crumbs like
1. “Love of my life, you spoil me with your love, you are it ….”
2. “Introduced to friends & family as wife” – nice strolls down diamond & jewellery streets weighing the type of ring I want….
3. “We will have x no. of kids”
4. Regular calls, chatting emailing etc
It was perfect, I was the envy of many ….. despite the “actions” he displayed including openly flirting – womaniser characteristics, belittling me in front of friends, telling me I was insecure, fat, you name it …..it was a long un-happy union but I held on to that beautiful daydream I had everyday of a nice house, kids running around the garden and a loving husband – something I had never experienced in my family …..despite all these behaviours, I hang on because like you I just couldnt see how I could lose all what I had put in …. I met him when he was a nobody and had built him into a king overnight (let alone me giving him all my money to invest for “our forthcoming family”) then wham ! in a flash he just dissappeared with everything and in just over a year …. got married to a fresh college grad with none of the successful qualities I have …. he is living the life in a porsche neighbourhood and flounting his marriage (funded with my money), career & business success (thanks to my connections and directions), he took off with all our common friends due to his “popularity & charisma” – making me look like the “bad” one and I have had to deal with heavy loads of embarrasment …..his wedding was a big party and not a single friend of ours tried to ask me how I felt …… the world forgives these people so easily and I was so angry at this but I realised I couldnt change any of this and had to focus on just me ……even though its 3 years later I’m still dumbfounded at how stupid I had been, how blind ! how could I invest so much of my youth and finances and have it all disappear in a flash – I went into minor depression but in this I also found immense strength …. Im still doing great in terms of career etc but I can tell you I havent gone a single day without thinking about him – I dont want him back at all ! good riddance !! but the gnawing pain of “how could he do this to me – what is so wrong with me” – is the most painful blow to who you think you are……..this is the EGO and he is one hell of a fighter – he doesnt let things go just like that !
What I have learnt is simple;
– You must master the pain and learn to live with it, you must accept what you lost its tonnes of money, time …. you name it but I always look around and see people who have lost bigger things in life and this somewhat brings me back on track, you must move on (this takes long for some of us) but the awareness and acceptance that “this too shall pass” keeps you going – you must also look hard within to realise that life also gave you some lessons much more worthy than what you invested in him ……life is kind …. it will come back perhaps in form of a man so great you would never imagine existed
– You must never look over the fence to see how green his grass is ….. it could all be face value and if he did this to you – something must surely not be right with him (of course this is also after accepting those dark parts of you that you have a hard time facing and working on dealing with them)
– You must get away from that day dream and you must look at him and judge him by not what he says but whom he shows you he is – he moved on with the “other” chick ….. why would you want someone who doesnt want you – regardless of your investments – take it like business – sometimes you win sometimes you lose – because as we wallow in our dissapointment – they are moving on and enjoying their lives without the slightest recollection of what you did to contribute to who they have become
– There are so many great guys out there and when you are finally ready – the one that you have been looking for will be ready exactly then – while this article has really spoken to me on issues of commitment – I am with an amazing man and I am trying to deal with the reality that my obsession with what my AC did to me could ruin my chance of having a perfect union with my new man – we have been together now for 2 years but I can tell you for 1.5yrs I was definately not in the relationship with both feet and this took some toll on it and when I realised the part I was playing in this I have started to work on it and im evidently coming across some positive changes.
I hope to share some positive news in the near future …… I have been broken beyond belief but life is so generous – it cannot give you challenges that you cannot overcome – and surely there is always light at the end of the “looooong” tunnel
Pain has made me who I am today because I used it as positive energy to drive me in the right direction – Its a hard lesson – but worth every bit ……. I am on a journey and I know I WILL reach my destination and all that I gave and gave and gave …. will come back in many more ways than I can imagine.
Bluesky–
Yes, the world does indeed forgive these people so easily, as you say. A mutual “friend” (or frenemy, as they now say!) told me about how much of a jerk the ex-EUM was to his then-gf, now-wife when I was dating him. But guess who the frenemy hangs out with right now? Yep, the husband-and-wife team!
I hadn’t hung out with her too much for 4 1/2 years after she pulled a stunt on me (we became more acquaintances than friends for that time, however, beforehand we were very close). Then, when we were about to re-establish the friendship (meaning we’d make time to see each other more often), she pulled another stunt on me, this time relatin g to the ex-EUM: she wanted to meet up for lunch at a building very close to where he works! SHE WANTED TO MAKE ME, HER “FRIEND” AND A MARRIED WOMAN, LOOK AS THOUGH I WANTED TO BE CLOSE TO HIM, AS THOUGH I AM A STALKER.
When I dated the ex-EUM, the frenemy had done this to me once before: on a night we (me and the ex-EUM) were to have gone out, but I had played hard-to-get with the ex-EUM by not accepting a date for that night at the last minute, she took me to his regular hang-out on that night! She was 2-faced, trying to help him get back together with his ex-gf, who was friends with this frenemy.
Point is, all of these people are alike. Your friends, my frenemy. You are best off being friendly with them–but at a distance.
My “frenemy” stopped speaking to me after she offerred to go to a new venue for lunch that day and I refused.
Which proved to me even MORE that her motives in choosing that locale were less than pure/clean.
When I dated the ex-EUM, he was not with a “then-gf” (not an official one, and definitely not with his then-ex-gf, now wife, who has always been friends with my “frenemy”).
If I had known that he had an official (which he didn’t); or had feelings for his then-ex-gf, now-wife (which he did); or that he had been seeing MANY women while with me and while with the then-ex-gf, now-wife (which was true), I would never had set eyes on him! In fact, I never had. He had chased me so much at the beginning, it was crazy!
The women who get these men get a jerk! Period.
And, so you all know, getting even is sweet–when it is done right. I know that this ex-EUM of mine wants to make himself look popular/wanted/irresistible/”the women are chasing me” in public. You know how I got even with him? To the piont where I even feel sorry for him?
I made apouty-pouty face, looking downwards and all disappointed, at a party where photographers were present. I never made such gestures when I wasin danger of being photgraphed, however, he was caught ON CAMERA staring at me in the most pathetic way, as if he were in a dreamland or something, definitely dreaming of me.
I have to admit, I was satisfied. Sorry if that makes me look bad. But I was sooooo happy. It was diabolical. It was calculating. It was cold. But others who were there that night and who saw this on the website it went on are now very friendly with me. Why? Because I came out the “winner”.
I have never acted a a bitchin my life. But, this one time, I am so happy that I was the bitchy femme fatale that ALL women are born with the capability of being.
DON’T LET THESE PATHETIC LOSERS OF MEN FOOL OR USE YOU. THEY need US for sex. DON’T give away what they NEED like water for free. Granted, we had never had sex.
Which, my friends, is a BIG part of his dreamland.
🙂
Hello All! I am so glad I found this website and thank you NML for starting it. I have been battling with an EUM for about 9 years now. We were married for 3 of those years and the rest has been an uphill battle. I am just now understanding the dynamic and the fact that I am attracted to him because he is unavailable. I am now focusing on what the F is going on with me that I would settle for this crap. He has been in and out of my life for 4 years since we divorced — which he instigated. I have acknowledged that i am somewhat “addicted” to this man that Im not even that in love with anymore — I am addicted to getting his unobtainable validation. I am 37, I lost my mother last year and my family of origin fell apart — I felt like he was all I had — which wasn’t much but it was something. Now I am strong enough to establish NC and am hoping I can stick to it. I am hoping by reading this blog and seeking therapy I can get to the other side of this nightmare. Thank you everyone for sharing your stories — there is strength in sharing — I wish the best for all of you lovely women out there.
@Blue
Welcome to the site! Everyone has been so helpful – their support, advice, insights, especially Nat’s articles. This has been my sanity since going to NC with EUM 48 day s ago.
I have no idea what Natalie’s rules are about exchanging email addresses, but would love to chat with you. I lost my mother 2 yrs ago and my guy was completely unavailable, it broke my heart and I understand some of the feelings you are going thru.
Hi Aimee
I would love to talk further about it. The death of a loved one thrown into the mix of the dynamic of being in a relationship with a EUM man is at times just too much hence why i kept holding on for years — thinking if i gave up the little he gave me I would be totally alone in a somewhat brutal world. You especially feel this when your support unit falls apart, like in our case, our mothers die, its hard to deal with. the fear takes over until it doesnt anymore. i am pretty sure i am at the point where it just stopped taking over. day 5 of NC and it really hasnt been that hard for me this time. i feel like a fool but it is kind of funny how totally ridiculous it all is and I have lost all respect for the guy’s opinion which i guess means i dont care for his validation anymore which is maybe why i feel i have turned a corner. It used to be that i cried and clung on to him or what there was of him for fear of losing the one connection I had outside my family of origin that was falling apart. But now i have freinds that have stepped in and this site is amazing. Congrats on 48 days of NC!!!! I have never gotten that far and am applauding myself for 5 days ……..but 48 days rocks. any insight you could share on how you did it would be amazing — dont think i can post my email up here though so lets talk via this site. thanks aimee for the feedback — you hang in there — i love the saying “the first moment they decide they dont want you is the moment you begin working on not wanting them” — take care and i send you lots of strength for yet another NC day.
@Blue
What is ironic about the whole thing – is that I was very strong, seeing red flags, keeping my boundries, slowing his fast forwarding, calling him on his future faking, etc. But when my mom died I fell apart. I guess I was desperate for this man to love me because now my mom was gone, my dad falling apart and not there for me, my brothers abandoned me in taking care of my father, my mother’s estate, cleaning their homes out/her personal belongings, and dealing with her extended family – with family like hers, who needs enemies?! One night when he was drunk he said he knew why God put him in my life – so he could be there for me when my mom died. Of course I corrected him and told him that he was not there for me – it was my friends that were. I made so many excuses regarding his chronic pain – I even told him he did not have to be at the funeral cause he can’t even drive to work – but he insisted that he wanted to be there for me. My friends kept running to the front of the church and he never showed. I knew then that I should “dump” him, but I didn’t. I settled for less because I thought I was too needy because I lost the most important woman in my life, that I was too emotional. I even confused my grief for mother on him and vice versa. I did grief groups, individual therapy, self-help groups, and major church and church group the last 2 1/2 yrs, not wanting to put my grief on him and “our relationship”. We even broke up for 4 1/2 months last year and I fell apart regarding the grief of my mother as I was trying to take care of everyone else – my dad, him and his chronic pain, my uncle who almost died that xmas after my mom died, my cat getting killed by a car, 2 cancer scares. I am exhausted. I thought I was the burden in the relationship. My friends were very upset that I made excuses for him, it all very sad and I am having a terrible day regarding it all, like I was the screwed up one. His last email – which I din’t even respond to – was go take my medicine, that I was mentally unstable and a psycho and he couldn’t believe he thought of me as anything but ……. scary. What a lovely mate, so compassionate, kind, respectful, and loving. It didn’t help that he was the cute guy that rejected me in HS, wow, I am truly so angry and disgusted with my self that I tolerated all his hurtful behavior thru the most devasting loss of my life. I was very close to my mom.
@ AImee —
I can completely relate to your tale and the struggle you have endured. You have been through so much. My mom and I were very close too and when she died my family fell apart — my dad didn’t really know what to do and started dating a few months later (very respectfully but he moved on quickly) — while i am close with my sister she is totally devastated from the loss and spends most of the day in bed — I worry that I will lose her too. Anyway — my EUM ex husband was actually there for me throughout the several months my mom was fading unlike your EUM ( I cannot believe he didn’t show!! character revealing stuff right there). My EUM ex actually asked me to re-marry him again a day before my mom died which still confuses me (kinda but not really). Being a complete emotional wreck at the time i didn’t think it wise to make such an important decision in that state of mind so I said no but asked if we might talk about it when things calmed down. My moms death actually seemed to bring us back together because I had nowhere else to turn and I was a wreck. He liked “saving” me. Well, after things did kind of settle down (a few months after she died) he still hadnt brought up the re- marriage proposal again — it never came and we began once again the walk to the edge of the cliff in one way or another only to have him bail for whatever reason in the 9th hour– this happened several times. The fact that he was there for me during the crucial days of her death and for the funeral/service really reeled me back in. i do think he was doing it out of the kindness of his heart and because he cares for me but the commitment issues were still there and we fell apart. It felt like I was being abandoned by my only functional family member when he started the unavailable dance again and it was devastating. The loss of a mother is huge and i think you are right — that grief gets transfered to the EUM and that whole mess. i never thought of it that way but i really think that you hit on some valuable insight. it was such a huge feeling of despair when he bailed on our plans after she died — so much bigger than the actual situation with my EUM warranted but in line with how one might feel when a mom dies. geez — anyway ——- I always like to think i am progressing in someway from all this pain so looking on the bright side (which seems oh so dim some days) ……if I can get my own commitment issues straightened out — be aware of them and know how to choose wisely I really do have the “know” first hand on how important and valuable family really is — which can add some incredible depth to a relationship if I pick an available man. You are in the same boat. — I am sending you positive and aware vibes : ) no more EUM’s period — we have had enough.
@AImee
oh — and that cruel email he wrote you — wow is all i can say. you are so doing the right thing by not contacting him. NC!!!! it will get easier with every day that passes. you probably want to write him back and set him straight but you of all people know not to. he is asking for that — just trying to reel you in again — this time with cruelty. same pattern different day or as i like to say same sh$# different day—- stay strong. you will be so glad you did! plus you are a total inspiration.
I can really identify with this topic, spot on for me.
I am a singe parent, and know i can’t make a committement to a man until my daughter is alot older as it conflicts with her needs,
I had a 4 yr on/off relationship with a committement phobic, and in all that time my now 7 yr daughter was a nightmare, she would constantly be aggressive and abusive to him and i was always piggy in the middle.
He also had 2 children from a previous relationship, and his daughter was always making digs about us behind our backs, while his son had been verbally abusive. I found the whole situation a strain, coupled with the fact i was brought up in kids homes myself and felt it wasn’t my place to rock the apple cart and had no intention of being ‘step mum’ or letting him be ‘step dad’.
I left him many timess, but he always pursued and we got back together again in secret, but all this did was make me feel invisible. In the end i ended it and within weeks he had got together with his new girl friend, who didn’t have a job, whose kids were older and she had more time to committ to him. I felt devastaded but, I had always realised that the relationship only worked because it suited me perfectly for that time. I guess my hook was sex, shallow as it seems, but the thought of anything more was just too scarey for me.
I look forward to the time my daughter is older and things like babysitiing, and responsibility are a thing of the past.
Re Genna’s comment:
I raised my daughter on my own – I was astounded when I found this site, did some further reading and discovered that, yes, I was in an on/off relationship with a commitment phobic man, but more than that I discovered that I was also commitment phobic (in a more passive sense, than his active phobia).
To realise this about myslef was the most shocking thing (I knew that the guy i was seeing was ‘not all there’), but your comment relfects my own thoughts about myself – I do not think I have any inherent fears of commitment per se… just that I was very wary of commitment once I had a child to care for, and for the same reasons as you point out: I felt that getting involved with a man would be counter to her needs and stability; that dating was problematic in any “normal” sense as I could not be spontaneous about going out etc… needed sitters… everything had to be ‘planned’… and the responsibility for a small child is what has to come first… so I tended to date men who were “suitable” for my situation – I WAS afraid of having anything else expected of me (by a man), afraid that a man would not stick around for the reality of my life and my baggage, afraid that I could not offer anyone what I would have been able to offer before I became a mother… I “knew” other young single women with no children had “more” to offer than I could – they could offer no baggage and “normality” – so I thought any man whould surely get fed up with my situation very quickly – my daughter would become insecure about a new person on the scene etc.. and so trying to date “normally”, or to date “normal”, single men was a terrible strain – I always felt I could not be, not provide, not live up to what he would expect; so it was easier to go out with someone who didn’t want or expect too much from me, and so that is the type of man I was drawn to – though I did not date very often at all – really a hanful of times in all those years (two were longer term – including my “current ex EUM” – both of these were ‘unavailbale’ men)
I met my current “ex” EUM nine years ago – my daughter was about 10/11 years – she didn’t like it!! She became anxious for a while that I was going to run into the sunset with this new man and have his baby and leave her behind! (as if!!)… so it is very hard to juggle the needs of the child with the needs of the relationship, and “new” the man, I find, just is not very “understanding”.
It is probably no coincidence that as my daughter grew up – has now turned 21yrs and is not very interested in my personal life! (too busy with her own!) that I became ever more disgruntled with the current “ex” EU relationship I had been having for nine/ten years… I have changed…my situation has changed – I want more than he wants to give, and I feel freed up to have more… but my EUM is still my EUM!!! He was always like this and always will be!! I find it all very sad…
… my daughter, by the way, came to know and like him well enough, she came to be comfortable with him around (up to a point!), and up until a few years ago even began to ask if/when we would get married; so over time she came to think that would be a good idea… she didn’t know how not on the cards that really was – and for a while I thought it could be a possibility too – if she was happy about it, I didn’t see a problem – except for the fact that my man was not into commitment!! It’s a pisser!!
I have been NC now for 4 weeks!! (longest ever!!) and I am not hearing from him either… I do find it very sad, but I do not know what else to do, as I cannot go on as we were… it was very unfair on me; and I do not now feel any reason why I should be sold short! (not that there ever really was a reason – just in my head). I also feel very resenrful towards him that he kept me dangling on a string, blowing hot and cold, sending me mixed messages and all the text book EUM behaviour”’ I also know though that he was at least very very fond of me and I know he will be missing me and willbe puzzledt hat my behaviour going totally NC) has changed… but so be it: I am not Mrs Fix-it… and as the problem is his, not mine… everyone has their breaking point, and I simply gave up on it.
I’d like to have some advice for you re dating when your child is still young; I would only say protect your family unit – but do not ever see yourself as having less to offer, as I did – if you believe that, so will everyone else. Expect the same as your single motherless counterparts – you juts need to be more careful with your choices… but don’t hide away from life waiting for your child to grow up!! Your life is now, with your child.
I would give anything to go back and have just one more day again with my daughter as she was as a wee girl; those memories are very precious – don’t wish this special time all away so fast!! Enjoy your child when he/she is small; it is fleeting, so seize the moment as it passes all too fast – in the flash of an eye…
Thanks
F
ps sorry if blabbling and off topic – but Genna’s situation/feelings reminded me so much of my own – years ago now – and I do think single parents are more vulnerable to EU relatiionships, and not because they simply are EU type people – there’s a lot more going on there.
Here’s a nice story for the single mothers out there.
I do know a woman in her 40s who had a young daughter under 10. She met a man also in his 40s and they got married. He adopted her daughter and they went on to have two more children together.
It does happen but you have to believe it can happen. Otherwise you will, knowingly or otherwise, pick men who aren’t worthwhile, who won’t make the effort to win your child over, and who don’t want to spend much time with you.
thanks grace for that nice happy ever after story, but it is for these very reasons why i never wanted a committed man in the first place.
The thought of having more kids is what puts me off big time, hard work and too much responsibility and what if i ended up a single mum again, even the best person in the world can change once babies come along or even die leaving you to raise more kids on your own AGAIN,
As i said to my ex EUM, the person i would want at this moment in time, is not the person i would want to settle down with when my child has flown the nest and i have my freedom again.
What i loved most about my committement phobic was the fact he didn’t keep tabs on me, i didn’t feel i had to answer to him for my every action or decisions i made, it was purely down to sex and the enjoyment of being chased, shallow as it seems, but i was honest with myself and him from the start and to be honest never expected it to last as long as it did.
I learnt too much from being left to raise a child on my own, very quickly i had to learn to be independent of her dad, i have fought tooth a nail to get a tranquil place to live, ability to earn to support my child and the ability to accept the consequences of my decissions i also like watching naff programs on the telly at night and the freedom of not having someone to answer too on how i spend my money. Also i don’t have to cook, clean, or look after someone else etc…etc….
However when my child is older i will be looking for a completely different person. I have been single for too long and enjoy it too much too throw my independence away again.
I so agree with the topic, because the very reasons you are attracted to someone might be the very reason that repels you. I do believe the signals you give out affect the people that are attracted to you, and once you understand what it is about you then you can understand what it was about them that made you want them in the first place.
ie. he was fun and we enjoyed great sex, plus he was easy to dump when i became bored, because i could use his non-committement attitude against him without feeling guilty about hurting another person, because in my eyes he was not a man who deserved respect in the first place.
wow am getting too deep….lol
but for the record, i would never ever go out or date a man that was already in a relationship, there are enough non committed men out there that are single and as a woman i could never disrespect a sister.
thanks fearless for your comments it good to hear from someone who has been there.
I think as single mums we are not really looking into diving into a committement straight away, my child’s father was a nightmare and did everything to sabotage my new relationship, as did my ex’s former wife who ensured he was always skint and enjoyed showing him up for the hen pecked mouse he was. Imagine what our lives would have been like if we had moved in together, got married had more kids etc…………….would have just been too full on for me.
And yes time /money constraints were a major factor for me, i couldn’t be spontaneous or as sociable as i wanted, i couldn’t go on holiday, invite his friends/family round for dinner or normal things that couples do due to the fact i only ever had enough food in my house for me and my daughter.
And after a hard day working and running around i had no energy or interest in anything other than work and my childs needs.
Before my daughter i used to be a musician with a hectic social life, every one knew who i was and i was always invited to play gigs and do session work.
Once i had my child i knew that i couldn’t continue that life style and tended to stay away from people as i hated letting people down as i couldn’t get a babysitter or my head was more on responsibilities than my social life.
I know though that as my child gets older i will be able to go out more and thereby giving myself more choices again.
as for the ex EUM, I ended it last year after i found out he had been cheating on me with his current girlfriend (she made her pressence known by non-stop texting and e-mails giving him ultimatums to finish with me), I was happy to have an excuse to be honest, but he still kept pestering me for months after, which only stopped when i put my foot down and told his new girl friend he was still chasing me, she hit the roof and initially blamed me for his behaviour, but after doing a bit of digging herself she knew it was him……………. although i thought i was the ‘invisible’ one ……i was actually the one he’s ex, his kids, his new gf were the most fearful of.
I always belive also that when someone lies to you it’s actually you the one who has the power not them, and you end up playing that cat and mouse game with them till you get bored and decide to end it.
And no i have never been the non committal type before, but in my heart I know that when the time is right I will find that man who will be there 100% …………………..and when they want their 100% back i will be able to give it to them.
In the meantime, i have lots of weight at the gym, have started teaching music and am getting back on track plus I know why i dated and attracted a committment phobic in the first place.