That day, there was a big concert for a Christian worship band that we’re both fans of. We purchased our tickets together and wound up front row. We started off as friends and connecting was like breathing. As the night went on, it came easy.
Afterwards we grabbed some drinks at a bar down the street. We hang out and she flirts with me. It is obvious that we have a connection. We have an amazing time and she invites me to lunch on Sunday after which we hang and talk for several hours. I thought to myself, This is good. I want a relationship and I’m going to make my intentions known because I’m not going to waste either of our time even if it’s odd. I am her boss for another week but there is connection and I’m comfortable enough, so I ask her if she wants to date and explore that route. Note, I’ve never asked out an employee before.
She explained that she’d cut contact with her ex three weeks before after going through a breakup for a couple of months and that she’s not ready but maybe in the future. She asked for friendship.
We continue to hang out and make plans. She’s passive in planning time to hang out together (she mentions something that’s going on and waits for me to initiate the plans about it). Each time we hang out, it seems we build more rapport, more similarities in lifestyles, goals, plans and have so much in common despite the short time.
I’ve made it clear that I want the commitment. It feels like I’m getting played as a bridge between relationships. I plan to back off and see if she initiates anything and see if she is jealous of the potential of me going out with other girls. I want to see how she responds to me insinuating that I don’t like being friend-zoned or being ‘the bridge’. It’s not my place nor am I that patient. I hardly ever find one that could fit the mold so I find myself unusually attracted and do want that commitment option but also don’t like the situation I have now.
**********
Kevin, your heart is in the right place but you’re letting your predetermined outcome and your ego get in the way of coming from the most authentic place.
You’ve fallen into the trap that so many do: Having met someone who you feel ticks the boxes of a list that you on some level were convinced that it would be hard to fill, your excitement and assumptions have convinced you that she’s a woman of serious potential. You mention in the longer letter how hard it is to “find someone truly faithful to God yet understand that it isn’t about religious activity but heart behind much of it”, and I feel for you because your lack of faith about how many women share your perspective, is creating a scarcity mindset.
What you’re unaware of is that you’ve made a snap judgement. You’ve taken details you like about this young woman and blown it into her being a potentially ideal mate because you because you like you and have your faith views and so inferring that synchronicity and similarity with her has you pencilling her in as partner or even wifey material.
You on some level felt safe to explore the possibilities now that work boundaries were on their way out. In the space of 24 hours, you went from good acquaintances, to discovering common ground, to requesting a relationship. Whether that is down to your faith or the way you operate, that is too much, too fast.
All you could do was ask for a date not a commitment.
Sure, agreeing to a date is a micro-commitment but feeling aggrieved that a woman who has just cut off her ex didn’t give you “the commitment” is unfair and it’s not in the spirit of the values you espouse.
You’re bruised that she isn’t matching you and understandably object to being ‘friend zoned’ but then you’re passive in your involvement and not owning your right to step away from this if friendship isn’t something you want or that you can handle.
You could argue that you’ve only just gone from acquaintances to fast friends and that your romantic interest is very recent so in theory, as disappointed as you may feel, you can potentially rein in your interest and take the time to get to know her, not the image of her. Of course if you can’t and you are on some level feeling resentful because you’re being ‘friendly’ while having the agenda of hoping that the consequence of hanging out will be that she gives you “the commitment”, roll back, waaaay back. That’s a hidden agreement and your ill feeling is not so much about what she’s doing but how you’re not being boundaried with you and honouring your own feelings, even if that means that for the time being, you step back.
I feel that I should point out that she hasn’t led you on by getting on so well with you. You reference her having flirted with you but as you’re the one chomping at the bit for a commitment, it’s important to acknowledge that you did your part in creating this connection that’s “like breathing”. Aren’t you flirting with her too? Aren’t you the one pursuing her?
I know it might feel as if you have “so much in common” and that you’ve gleaned a great deal of information about her but you are mistaking intensity for intimacy.
You also haven’t acknowledged that you are only talking about your feelings and your perspective, not hers.
This perception of your connection shows blurred boundaries and your wake-up call about that was when she stated her position. That was your cue to recognise where you end and she begins.
She is passive with you, maybe because that’s her general mode, something you might want to take note of as you wax lyrical about how much you have in common, but I also suspect that her passiveness about arrangements is so that you don’t get the wrong impression. She enjoys your company and yes, possibly enjoys the attention but she is not over her ex. She possibly thought that you were both enjoying friendly Christian time together. It’s also very possible that she’s a pleaser who worries about being “rude” and doesn’t want to hurt your feelings.
You talk about not wanting to be ‘the bridge’ between her previous relationship and her next one but I’ve got to be honest with you, Kevin—you have choices here! If you don’t want to be the bridge, don’t be. You’re not a hostage! Maybe she’s just mentioning interesting things as part of conversation or maybe she is being passive about arrangements but Kevin, you don’t have to suggest plans and you need to adjust your expectations about arrangements to one of a friendly capacity. You’re not her boyfriend or boyfriend-in-waiting. I’m not convinced that you’re her friend either.
Resentment will grow if you continue to suggest arrangements and hang out while on some level expecting to be rewarded for your efforts.
You’re both Christians and have things in common and yes, that might feel like a rarity, but she’s not obliged to become your girlfriend. Also, she might be the first employee you’ve ever asked out and that might feel ‘special’ but be careful of inferring a specialness in her or an obligation for her to justify you ‘putting yourself out’.
I’m going to hazard a guess that you have more dating experience than her so if you know that this situation is confusing, do the right thing for the both of you and step back. Take responsibility for your side of the street.
And don’t do sh-tty things like trying to mess with her head by backing off or trying to make her jealous. Not only is it manipulative but it’s disingenuous. It’s like, “Let me get control of this situation or punish you for not being interested in me”—if you ‘get’ her this way it will not feel the same as if you had gotten involved with her in a more authentic, mutual way. You might have been the boss at work but you’re not her boss outside of it. Bearing in mind that she’s just cut off her ex, compassion would dictate that you give her space and respect her feelings. Why try to hurt the woman who you’re supposed to be so interested in?
It seems that you’re afraid that there isn’t a woman that fits “the mold” and there may be a level of internal pressure about getting settled by a certain point. Maybe you feel as if you have everything but the woman to complete your life but, there is no such as the woman who fits the image in your head (“the mold”). Yes, know your values but don’t turn up with a cookie cutter. You might be blind to the things that are not on your list as well as blind about some of what’s on it. Take this experience as life’s way of letting you know that the woman who could “fit the mold” has factors and a past that you haven’t considered. Let go of the fixed mindset. You’ll find that meeting like-minded women is less of a rarity. Stop trying to be in control of ‘everything’ so that you can be open to meeting the woman you can love and build a life with.
Do you have any advice for Kevin? What do you think of this situation? Do you think he’s got mixed messages?
Each Wednesday, I help a reader to solve a dilemma. To submit a question, please email advicewednesdayAT baggagereclaim.com. If you would prefer your question to be featured on the podcast, drop a line to podcast AT baggagereclaim.com. Keep questions below 200 words.
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I think the age gap is worth a mention. I don’t think eight years makes much of a difference in most cases, but the level at which you mature from your late teens to late twenties is huge! 21 vs. 29 is a pretty sizable gap, in terms of both maturity and experience. And I think Kevin needs to calm down and take a breather. Trying to railroad the girl into a relationship is unfair and if she folds, it will probably blow up in his face spectacularly. I think we’ve all learned not to determine someone as “the absolute” (especially in such early days) and certainly not to keep chipping away at someone until they give in.
Kevin, it’s admirable you are ready for commitment but you cannot expect to hit a home run before you actually get up to bat. What’s the rush? Plus, as a Christian, shouldn’t Jesus be guiding the progress of this relationship?
Man makes plans and God laughs.
You both have a higher power, Kevin, but it’s not you.
Oh, bless you Kevin! I always try to avoid pushing my faith where it’s not wanted but since you’re a Christian, I’m going to share a Christian perspective. It’s my favourite topic so I hope you’ll indulge me here.
We live in a secular society which means it’s not cool to be a believer, right? So in a world where God’s plan for romance, sex and marriage has been distorted, lots of Christians are in the position of pining for a Godly mate while all the while being sure they’ll never find them. There are two problems with this.
The first is, as Natalie pointed out, that you’re creating a scarcity mindset. This means you’re not likely to actually take time to consider if someone is the right spouse for you, because it’s like okay, Christian – check. Not completely repulsive – check. Shares some interests – check. While shared faith is important, on it’s own it’s not enough (Suggest you read Natalie’s work on core values). Thus you’re leaving yourself open to situations which aren’t befitting of you.
Second, you’re actually creating an idol out of this person and their love, and the idea of marriage. Thus breaking the first commandment. Remember how jealous God is? It’s not because He wants to spoil your fun – it’s because He wants to protect you. Focusing too heavily on the things of this world causes us to lose our eternal focus and leaves us wide open to pain.
Trust him. He may bring you a mate, when the time is right. He may decide you can serve him better as a single man. Either way, your focus, first and foremost should be on Him.
One of my favourite Catholic blogs summed this up perfectly. They were discussing the topic of “will I ever find the one?” The conclusion they drew is that there are actually lots of people you could enjoy a good marriage with. However, there is only One person you absolutely need to have a relationship with – if you don’t meet this person, your life simply won’t mean anything. Who is that person? Who is the One?
It’s Jesus.
Hope that helps.
Ah, Dany, thank you!
You are correct about the scarcity mindset. See comment below for that.
As for the idol thing, you know, getting personal with you here (and everyone else reading this I suppose) that did cross my mind in all the events that took place. I always had my heart and mind on God though. Which is likely why we are now good friends. In fact, while I haven’t seen her in a while I do believe we will be headed out to do some evangelism soon.
As for the blog and thoughts on marriage. I agree, there are likely several wonderful women I could enjoy a marriage with. Looking in the Bible there was always, sometimes symbolically at a minimum, but always a choice for both sides, man and women, accepting the marriage. That is something we are all given, the choice, as the Bible lays it out.
As for Jesus. Ah, yes, I do love me some Jesus. For all you out there who don’t understand that or think it is weird. I’m sorry. I would hope that at a minimum, since you see people actually believing and loving, maybe it is worth stepping out and trying. I mean, kinda weird to get mad at someone when they think they have something great to share. Kinda like trying a new food. Ya never know if it is good until you give it a shot. Anyways, enough evangelism. I want to respect Natalie’s space here.
Thanks,
Kevin
I hate it when guys try and railroad you into a relationship with them just because *they* have a picture of happy coupledom in their minds, with you on the pedestal. The trouble with being on the pedestal is that they just as quickly knock you off if you don’t live up to their projected standards. I’ve had this happen many times over my fifty-seven years of life, and, because I, too, was a pleaser, I didn’t know how to tell them to back off either, especially at 21. The thing is, she’s already told Kevin that she doesn’t want a relationship with him, but he can’t take no for an answer. This rings alarm bells for me, as control freaks act this way, and being of a faith doesn’t make you any less susceptible to it – I’ve seen it in many religious people (I went to a Catholic school). This girl may have initially enjoyed the outings as a friend, but now that he’s playing games, she’s trying to back out gracefully, and Kevin won’t let her go, because *he* wants this relationship to be how *he* sees it in his mind (no matter what).
I’ve seen this so often, and it reminds me of two guys I used to work with. They were at a party, and each of them had separately chatted with a very attractive girl, who they each thought was interested in them. The following Monday they were arguing about which one she liked, so one of the girls at work, who knew this person, decided to put an end to it and phoned her. She described the two guys and asked her which one she liked best. The girl couldn’t even remember either of them – she said she’d had a great time at the party and chatted to everyone… We all thought it was hilarious, but the guys in question were gutted. They’d mistaken flirting and chatting (smiling) as being interested – whereas, sometimes we’re just being nice.
The last person I dated put me off dating for life because he acted similarly to Kevin. That was 2012. he kept telling me I was his soul mate, and on and on, and would play those jealousy games as well – it really messed with me, and I didn’t stay because I liked him, but because I was so messed up. I ended up really disliking him and resenting his behaviour and the feeling of obligation I felt to hang around. Not very Christian behaviour – quite the opposite. It’s very controlling, boundaryless behaviour, and I believe Kevin needs to deepen (or even find) his connection with God, instead of projecting his beliefs all over the first girl who ticks some of his superficial boxes. And get to know yourself, Kevin – there’s definitely work to be done before you can be in an equal, healthy relationship.
I find this an interesting view point that you’ve gathered here.
There was a lot more dynamics than what you’ve seen here. There was attraction, we spoke of this more after this email, and we are both now very good friends.
If anything, I would say I know myself very well and I never tried to railroad “this poor girl” into a relationship. If anything, I believe the freedom to choose is the foundation of any relationship and it’s a big, sometimes hard choice to choose someone good. It takes time and the test of time.
I do agree that unfortunately many men do not share the thoughts I do and really get emotionally attached or gutted far to fast. Commonly mistaking friendliness for flirting. As for “superficial” boxes. No, they are big, real boxes. I still think she is awesome but there are a couple of big boxes, non-negotiable, missing.
Thanks,
Kevin
20-something Christians are a special group in the dating world. Out here in the wild, just because you both have Jesus doesn’t mean it’s automatically heading towards a relationship. She’s a good Christian girl, she’s pretty, she’s not committed to anyone (that you know of) so she’s a perfect match… And yet she’s 21, fresh out of a breakup, you are her boss, and let’s be real a lot of 20-something Christians are desperate for a wife/husband so Kevin here likely isn’t the only Christian guy checking her out.
I know that if I were 21, attractive and a good Christian girl with options I’d tell Kevin no thanks too. Kevin, if you are reading this, you are coming on WAY too strong. The minute she told you she just wanted to be friends was the minute you should have cut her off and let her go her own way. Respect yourself enough to not pursue a person who has already told you in the most polite way possible that they are not interested in being with you. You should have just asked her on a real date and played it by ear. But you are 29. And a Christian man who is single at 29. I can see how you are more than ready to fast forward with this younger woman who appears to share your values.
But that’s just the thing. She already told you no. She’s being passive and like Nat said if that bothers you then she’s definitely not someone who shares your values. You are projecting so much onto this poor girl. You had a fun time at a concert. Doesn’t mean anything in the grand scheme of her life. Leave her be. Cause I promise you… making her jealous? Please. She will not care 1 iota that you are talking to other women. When she finds out she’ll probably think to herself WHEW. I’m glad my ex-boss finally took the hint and left me alone!
Neither sex knows how to “date”, do we? I thought it was women who try to lock things down based on ONE good date and ONE good conversation. Now I see it’s men too.
Actually, it seems that it is the person with an agenda waiting to be filled who insists on the “relationship” label so early on. Female or male, when the decision that it is “time to find the One” has been pre-made, then the very next person who checks two or more boxes on our checklist MUST be turned into The One.
I know. Life is short and you want true love to hurry up and get here. But if you rush into the wrong relationship, life will be long and miserable.
Oh Natalie.. This article is the best relationship advice i ever read! You always explain with so much compassion, respect, understanding and keep bias at bay. Here.. You go so indepth- yet stay crisp on every possible thought, action, reaction and emotion concerning kevins case, that the read is highly insightful and moving the same time! Thank you! You make my day! Hug!
Uhhh — for all the heartbreak and yammering among mostly females of which I am one and have participated in same, the male perspective is refreshing.
Assuming the story in the article is true which is unknown, my gut reaction to the scenario is, FINALLY! FI-NA-LLY! That’s what it looks like when a man wants you and a relationship with you! Everything “Kevin” did for his potential love interest is on point, if even a *tiny* bit future-faking and love-bombing, though. I really like that the way the story went, he *wanted* a *relationship*! Guys that want relationships WANT them and ASK FOR THEM — they don’t do the behaviors like sexting, blowing hot and cold and other heartbreaking nonsense that leaves us confused and heartbroken.
That said — it sounds like, unfortunately, the girl is the one who is emotionally unavailable at this point. Plus, add in it’s possible emotional immaturity is with the girl. Even science tells us that our brains are somewhat hardwired to be thrill-seeking and volatile until the age of 26 or so. “Kevin” is past that and more settled, the girl is several years far from that.
Further, she may see his insistence for a relationship at HIS age as concurrently knocking out kids in a few years, which she may not be feeling an urge for yet but, which is unusual, HE may be. That’s the expectation among some “Christians” — it’s unclear if “Kevin” is the traditional role type. If he is, and she isn’t though “Christian,” that’s a mismatch in values. He may need to refine how he presents himself, maybe *ASK WOMEN* rather than put them in a role to fulfill for him, that she hasn’t ASKED to fulfill. Like this: “As a Christian woman, do you believe in the woman’s traditional role in a man’s life?” If she says “No, I want an equal partnership, not the man as the head of the household and I submit to him.” Well! There you go. Asking for a relationship too soon may feel like getting stuck in tradition — which only works for SOME “Christian” women, not all.
Also — to me I kind of see an “age” and “stage of life” thing going. A girl of that age may not seek the kind of relationship a man of almost 30 is — she’s just too young. I think if “Kevin” expanded his options to someone who WANTS WHAT HE WANTS *AND* behaved the same way, but maybe slightly, ever so slightly, less intense, that would be successful for all involved. BUT! Unfortunately, the woman might need to be slightly older, even older than him and ready for “commitment” — a gal that much younger in her early 20s just isn’t where he’s at, and a woman even his same age of 29 might be still too focused on living life and/or career rather than prioritizing an exclusive, mutually committed relationship. Again– not ready yet for the traditional, “Christian” role of wife/mother.
I myself am JUST learning to tell the difference between a man who pays attention to me vs. one who doesn’t, true connection vs. palpable indifference and how to LITERALLY send the sub-par ones packing.
I mean, simple things like him “tricking” me into calling him first and then acting disinterested after, talking for a long while but him not asking me out or even getting my number were tripping me up over the summer, but not now, come fall.
Reading “Kevin’s” actions here is refreshing, and I hope to soon meet someone who acts like THAT (a LITTLE less intense and SLIGHTLY better paced though), has his emotional ducks in a row, is right for me and isn’t future faking, in fantasy land, putting me or a “relationship” on a pedestal but not getting to know me, etc.
I’m way too old for “Kevin” but if I weren’t? Yeah, I’d seriously post my number and email, hahaaahaaaaa! 🙂
Thank you.
Your comments here inspired much of my original comment below. I appreciate your wisdom and insight.
Thanks,
Kevin
Ok, if healthy relationships are supposed to start off slowly working toward friendship, rather than the quick intensity that often happens in unavailable relationships, why is it so bad that she wants to begin a friendship? In my perspective, the best friendships happen organically and you never really know who that might end up being with.
I applaud the girl of interest for being up front and honest about just going through a break-up and not being ready for a relationship. I don’t believe she’s blowing hot and cold to be manipulative. When guys still pursue, even after you stated your position, it can be difficult to remain “friends” when you know their ultimate motive. I think that dating other girls, only for the purpose of trying to make her whatever, is manipulative and too other person focused. I can understand Kevin’s position for being at the developmental stage of wanting to settle down. My ex/kid’s dad is 11 years older than me. We met when I was 20, before I really became an individual with my own adult lifestyle. Gradually, as I matured, we grew apart and became different people and I realized that my ex could not see me as an individual autonomous woman apart from the little girl I was. I believe we rushed into marriage before I really knew who I was and also, because he was ready to settle down and I was just beginning. Now I can see how truly incompatible we are. I also understand how discouraging it might feel that there are not àlot of people out there with your same values. That’s just life and people in general. I read so many horror stories of cheating and people being ok with less than behavior that I often feel that I don’t even want to try dating. Maybe taking time to continue to get to know this girl will reveal if you guys are truly compatible for the long term. God’s plan happens in his own time and not on our clock. Trust that God will bring you the person you are to be with when it’s the right time. He is in control. Perhaps there is some growth Kevin might still need to achieve before being ready for commitment himself. If you are truly meant to be in a fullfilling relationship, it will happen organically; and visa versa. You may organically come to realize she may not be the girl for you. Trying to force someone to be with you before they are ready id they want to at all, is in my opinion, not the type of person I would want. Believe me, I did it before and we got married for all the wrong reasons and he ended up showing me that he eventually didn’t want to be in the marriage and replaced me with another. Give her time to heal so she can be ready. Whether or not that is with you, is not up to you. Give her time to grow into the woman she is supposed to be. In my experience, major growth happens in your 20’s.
Took me a long time to stop labelling everyone I wanted who didn’t want me back in the same way as wronging me.
Yes, there a narcisstic sociopaths and emotional vampires lifelong EU people , temporarily vampire EU po but they at also everybody else inbetween. EU to you but would be for another person who matches them better , EU right now because of recent break up or life circumstance but who likely will be EA once they are over it and people who choose to remain alone and try as much as possible not to hurt or string along anyone while being alone
Only a few of these people are actually bad people and being EU is not so much a disease state or diagnosis but rather a certain frame of mind and habits that fluctuates constantly over time. This girl may well be EU but if doesn’t mean he is right and that she is wrong. And it doesn’t mean that if she someone got “cured” and became emotionally available that she would choose him to be available too. Life is not fair , never has been. Have to accept or you will live life feeling very hard done by by everything and everyone.
Oh dear, Kevin! Over the years, I’ve been that lady, grieving after the end of a relationship and needing time to process all the material and grow as a person before being really available to another man. While in that state, I’ve met guys who were obviously interested, told them I’m not available but it would be nice, say, to go to the theatre or to a concert if they wanted the company.
Some have taken me at my word, and it’s been great. Others, like yourself, have unilaterally decided that I’m in a relationship with them – regardless of what I’ve told them – and played the kind of games that you describe. I was so relieved when they stopped calling, and/or tried to make me jealous.
When someone tells you they’re not ready, believe them. She owes you nothing. You are acting as though she ought to be in a relationship with you, isn’t stepping up to the plate and now you’re going to punish her for it. Part of dating is to find out whether you’re on the same page as the other person once the rosy glow of romance has faded, and this lady has told you quite clearly that she’s not ready. THAT’S the kind of information you need to find out before committing yourself emotionally.
One of my favourite prayer is the Serenity Prayer: “God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference”. Among the things we cannot change are other people, their feelings and actions. Among the things we can change are ourselves, our feelings and expectations.
You need to let this young lady go if you want a relationship – and find someone who wants the same thing as you. She clearly doesn’t.
I appreciate your response. The looking at dating others is and was not only to see how she responded but because I was aware there wasn’t a commitment. Not solely a game. I believe it was a healthy choice as the connection was real. We are still good friends. I understood perfectly what she communicated and in fact we talked more about this at a later date.
Cheers,
Kevin
P.S. Natalie, I am having a glorious time reading and responding to these. I hope you don’t mind. lol.
hmmm — I like all the ideas in the posts from crimson and clover on — this idea of pacing in a relationship, when someone says they aren’t ready believe them, etc.
The “Christian” angle of the original post is interesting b/c my assumption would be that there is no sex agenda. It is interesting that everything in “Kevin’s” story is kinda rushed for a relationship, rather than sex. Maybe it’s a mixture of both, assuming that no details from the original story have been tweaked in any way to get a point across.
Meeting someone new is often, and should be a wait and see phase. I personally often don’t know with a new man where he will fit in my life at the time: friend, foe, sexual(not usual), partner. It takes a lot to go the distance in a committed relationship of any type, even as just a friend.
MOST of the people you meet in a lifetime, especially meeting a stranger or mild acquaintance as an adult, are just passing through. Trying to hold on to someone who is just passing through your life and to make a situation something that it’s not is a mistake that leads to unnecessary pain, I think.
I think it’s very difficult to pace a relationship of any kind these days — we just have an “on demand” culture at the moment. People don’t respect “time” — a relationship recipient, friendship notion, a sex thing, or G-d’s time, either. For me the friendship angle, the “friends to lovers” situation doesn’t work for me. The vibe with someone for me is either “relationship” chemistry or “just a friend.” And THEN *either* develops from there over time — but rarely (e.g. never) do I blur the lines between a relationship and a friendship with a man. I’m also not that girl to remain friends with an ex and I also prefer if my partner cut his exes out when we’re together. For this reason, I don’t date men raising kids b/c the ex *must* be in the picture.
That’s just me, though — many have told me I’m too rigid in my thinking and operating in that way. Works for me!
I take friendships seriously, it’s not a small thing to be someone’s friend, especially of the opposite sex. I’m rather upfront in stating to a (new) guy that they will be forever in the friend zone if that’s how I’m feeling and if they want a relationship and/or sex, go elsewhere. The “friendship” predictably fizzles, after. So MANY men when I’m upfront will ask me about the future on THEIR terms — “how about in X months?” “what about if we do XYZ until you’re ready?” The concept that I’m getting to know them and how we are and matching is totally lost on them — b/c the expectation from the jump is that I’ll become sexual with him. Uncomfortable, no?
Applied to “Kevin,” the girl may be really uncomfortable and it’s totally blowing by him — she hasn’t stated that upfront, she may be too young to know her way around stating HER needs in a relationship.
Love this response, thank you. I appreciate your input on time, friends and where people fit in the picture. People passing through. This is good and exactly how I look at things. You’ve put this into words very well. Thank you.
You are correct, there was no sexual agenda. The fit together thing was crazy… we are still friends, and I am dating someone new. We are friends simply because the life trajectory we both have and interests align well. We are solely friends though.
Thanks,
Kevin
Also, yes this has been condensed but its been done well. I feel there are things missing, but it helps to teach the points in an informative, well communicated and rounded manner. I don’t think any intention of misconstruing my original message has taken place. Natalie has done a very good job.
Well I think it’s worth mentioning that if she mentions things are going on, she’s not necessarily hinting for you to take her. If you perceive her as being that manipulative, that actually says more about you than her. Do you hint when you want something? I think you definitely don’t always have your actions and words match from the sound of your letter. Moreover, you want to manipulate her into a relationship with you! I think it’s safe to say there is already a power struggle happening here and you’re not even in a relationship yet! Healthy love relationships leave no room for power. You should be equals, Christian or not.
I’m Kevin.
It has been some time since I asked this question. A few months but it is great to see a response and see that people are finding it helpful. Natalie condensed what I originally said and has communicated it very well. There are a few things that should be known. We were good friends at work despite me being her boss previously. That was already there. We intentionally didn’t hangout outside of work because it would have been weird.
The opportunity arose and it happened. We did end up spending some time together for a while. However, yes, she was and is much younger than I. She was not the type of person who is a people pleaser. She was very forward. Also, her mode of operation was and still is to lay back until someone instigates the activity. Not only with me but with anyone; and after some time I did find a lack of emotional maturity. The gap wasn’t so much age as previous experience too. We talked a lot about this, actually.
Something Natalie did nail was the scarcity mindset. I had it. I received a fair amount of advice from some friends and it took a little work to overcome it. I am happy to say the scarcity mindset is no longer something I struggle with. This is good for several reasons. I myself now have this mindset and want any potential partner to value themselves and know there are people out there. Eventually the match will be found, no reason to rush, no reason to settle and no reason to not value oneself.
Granted, it was a weird short lived whirl wind following this email. Not in the physical sense at all, but as for the fun, connection and more, yes. It was nice, refreshing and good. Perhaps it was like breathing for me and ended up being the bridge I needed.
Yes, there are men out there that want a relationship, connection, and to make the choice to share life with someone amazing. Not just sex, but hey, that should be a good part of it too, in the end. I think sex should reinforce the connection, intimacy and trust but that might only be my personal views based on my experience.
It is interesting to see responses along the lines of “he didn’t play games” and said what he wanted. Not going to lie, it has been experience that has taught me communication skills too. I’m ready to have a great partner in life. I would like to think that this takes a level of maturity in relationships hard to find but I don’t really know. I do know I appreciate it. The girl I am currently dating has the same communication skills, I like it, and likewise, she has expressed her appreciation.
For those of you who are Christian, yes, I am letting God work his plan. I haven’t always been a Christian. It took a lot of pain, world flipping and more before my life turned around which is were the experience comes from. Dating under the pretense of actually wanting a real relationship is weird, somewhat new, and complicates a lot of the simple things when you don’t care. So, in short, yes I’ve been that guy before. I’ve been there and now dislike it as much as you whom have been played by guys before.
As for the Christian thing, yes, I am a devoted, learned, Bible loving Christian. As for this “traditional” cliche that comes with that, the Bible asks the man to be the spiritual head. To lead prayers, to step out and connect in that way. NOT to simply make the decisions or whatever you think the cliche is. I believe in an equal partner but also believe we excel in different areas of a relationship. To get the nitty gritty, the Bible calls for a man to love his wife. Something we men often have to learn to understand and do. What is love if not truly caring in action?
The Bible never says for a wife to love her husband, not once. You ladies do that naturally and I think it is in your nature to be loving. You all are awesome like that. It actually says for women to respect your husband. In other words, don’t belittle him for being a man. We like manly things! We lack in areas you excel and we have our roles we excel at too… right… anyways, I’ll leave it at that since relationship advice is what we are here for.
For those of you wondering, it eventually sizzled over and nothing came from it. She is still one of my friends and I’ve been meaning to text her the last few days. This was a good reminder. However, I’m dating someone else now. It’s an interesting ride and the unknownness of what’s ahead makes it great.
Cheers,
Kevin