“Why are we attracted to this kind of guy? What issues are we trying to cover up with ourselves to the point where we have to find a guy with more issues so we don’t have to deal with us. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.”
The last line in particular is something that every woman who keeps expecting and demanding change from others and resisting the urge to take responsibility for her own outcome, needs to connect with.
At some point, you have to stop the if’s, but’s, and maybe’s and quit the cycle of Relationship Insanity.
Much like when I wrote about why do we throw ourselves at bad relationships and wonder why it hurts, relationship insanity means that you are refusing to:
1) Get real and stop living in denial
2) Adapt your expectations
3) Accept responsibility for making your life different or better
4) Opt out
5) Stop wallowing
6) Stop attempting to force change.
You are dodging responsibility and instead placing everything on him, so it’s his issues, his behaviour, what he says, what he wants, what he thinks, him, him, him.
You then sit there and suck up all this crap and say
‘But he was so nice to me at the beginning!’ or
‘But if he didn’t have the problems that he does, our relationship would work’, or
‘But I am the one doing everything to save the relationship’ or
‘But I love him unconditionally (even though I don’t actually know the mofo and he treats me like sh*t I’m gonna ride this bashed up donkey of love till it collapses)’, or
‘But whilst I know I have my issues, I don’t have as many as he does’, or
‘But because I have issues and wouldn’t want someone to be mean to me, I don’t want to be mean to him’, or
‘But I’m a really nice person so I want us to stay friends’, or
‘But I’m a really nice person so I can’t just cut contact’, or
‘But he says that he does like/love/care about me and I’m just needy and I probably am’, or
‘But I can’t understand why it’s over and I don’t want to get over this. I want to wallow in my pain and I want a definitive explanation for everything that has happened!’, or
‘But if he can be with her, there must be something wrong with me and that’s why I’m not able to change anything’….
‘But, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT!’
Ladies, don’t bullsh*t yourselves as you already have enough BS to contend with in your dating dalliances and relationships.
This whole waiting, willing, wanting thing all boils down to the same ole usual thing:
AVOIDANCE TACTICS
Blaming him, saying ‘but’, avoiding taking responsibility for you and your own happiness is about avoidance.
Doing the same sh*t, different week and expecting something different…is avoidance.
Dating the same man, different package, and then wondering why it’s not working, is avoidance.
You being the same person, with the same self-esteem issues, carrying the same suitcase of emotional baggage, with the same beliefs about yourself, love, and relationships, repeating the same patterns, and also expecting that someone who has behaved the same way 100 times will change on the 101st time because you think they should and you expect change, is about, yep, you guessed it, avoidance.
At some point, you have to ask yourself who died and left you in charge and said that you had all of the solutions to someone else’s problems and what they should do in a relationship when you yourself have your own issues to deal with!
It is relationship insanity! If you put your hand in the fire ten times tomorrow, you can be damn sure, you’ll burn it ten times and do untold damage and it doesn’t matter that each time you put your hand in the fire you said ‘Please Mr Fire, do what I want and don’t burn me!’
The fire with it’s nasty heat and flames has it’s own modus operandi and presents it’s consistent danger signals, so putting your hand in the fire is damn foolish.
You may not know the length and breadth of a mans problems within two seconds of talking to him or even a couple of dates, but people reveal things about themselves through their actions and their words and when you are around them on a consistent basis, they are actually teaching you what to expect from them, and in turn, how you choose to deal with whatever crap they put your way, not only teaches them what to expect from you, but also what they can and can’t get away with.
You are being told everything that you need to know through actions, signals, and often even words that you are refusing to listen to, or attaching a different meaning.
But if you’re a Responsibility Dodger or a ‘But Girl’, as long as the problems appear to be all lying at someone else’s door, you don’t have to change.
And ‘appear’ is the key, because at the end of the day, no matter how much we deny the reality of stuff, deep down we know and at some point, you have to take a leap of faith on you and start taking responsibility for your own outcome instead of focusing on and obsessing about dipstick assclowns.
Right now it’s all about him but what about how you feel? What about you want, need, think etc? It cannot all be about him!
Now you can make a choice and say ‘F*ck it, I like this pain and drama and I’m not ready to be responsible for my own happiness’ and not only is that your prerogative, but it’s also your choice and all you need to remember if you go with this option is that if you’re in pain and misery (especially if the relationship is already over), it’s you causing yourself the pain, not him.
Or you can put yourself in the driving seat, feel the pain, grieve, move on, heal, build your self-esteem and power your own life and feel infinitely better that you’re not freefalling through life waiting for some man, any man to pick you up and put you on the right path.
Your thoughts?
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I never used to realize I was doing the same thing over and over again – but I was ! For 30 years !!!!!
I’m at a choice point today, and taking action with a guy who’s not giving me enough of what I want – and it feels SO good, because it’s not about him – it’s about this is what I want and deserve and I’m not willing to settle for less by accepting less.
No contact is easy, and so is setting the ground rules and not caving when a crumb of attention gets thrown my way.
I realize finally it’s about HOW he treats me, and whether he wants me as much as I want him and shows it concistently. Not talks about it, not implies it, not promises it later…. SHOWS IT NOW AND KEEPS SHOWING IT.
I never realized how powerful I really am when I stopped hurting myself by loving assclown after assclown instead of loving myself and believing I was worth being treated nicely/respectfully.
p.s. (What you said to me about my Dad and his emotional sadism really helped not only heal a lot of it, but free me from feeling crippled from it. The coaching sessions with you are awesome !!!)
THANK YOU, NML.
And I look at how differently I would have acted in the past, and it’s so clear why that never worked, and why THIS does.
Loving Annie’s last blog post..You Won’t Believe This
Excellent. Just excellent.
I was so angry at men and hated men. But my anger and bitterness was probably a contributing factor to their disappearances and I refused to acknowledge that. I ALWAYS blamed them and yeah, they were assclowns, but it takes two to tango.
I’ve gotten better, but I still have trust issues sometimes. Sometimes it seems too good to be true. BUT I take full responsibility for the way that I feel and have discussed it with him. He’s been understanding. I think the conversations have gone well because I take responsibility for my leftover “duffle bag” and check myself.
It takes a lot of time and getting used to, but I feel much better now that I understand that I have to take responsibility for my contributions to any relationship. I’m exercising my freedom of choice and empowering myself in the process. In addition, counseling/coaching around all my issues (from childhood until now) has helped with the process.
Again, excellent NML. Thanks.
It took me a while to own up to the responsilbility that I was putting myself in the same situation again and again expecting a different result, to me his behaviour only got worse because I kept rewarding it by turning up for more..
I learnt a lot of lessons not only from him but by putting the pieces of the puzzle together through this web site and other books..
I have been very close to breaking no contact because it certainly is easier to not look at yourself and to want someelse to blame for your own issues. Fortunately this site saves me as I read other stories that I can draw strength from..
It is also hard to accept that you have to take responsibility for your own foolish actions I feel humiliated at times for some of the situations I put myself in I must have thought very poorly about me indeed.. and it is a battle to turn this around to say no more buts just get out and get on …
We women are very good with the buts, aren’t we? The important part, in my opinion, is for us to go inside and figure where it is coming from. What are we trying to fix? What is this pattern mirroring back at us. Because the problem isn’t with them, it is with us, and why we keep choosing them in the first place
searchingwithin’s last blog post..TGIF – The Five Best Love and Relationships Articles From Around the Web – #1
What I love about this site, is the fact that NML can deliver the same message in a million different ways and it is always refreshing, powerful, and oh so TRUE!!! Her advice and comments have been excellent tools that I’ve used as continue down the path of empowerment. Your words are life changing!! Thank you.
I have recently got myself involved with a married man. I believe he is genuine and honest and trustworthy. How do I break it off as I am starry eyed. I know I am in denial. Please help as it is so consuming.
Astrid,
If he’s married and seeing you he is NOT “genuine and honest and trustworthy!” He’s unavailable!!!
He’s also a lier and a cheat!!!!!
Are there children involved?
Oh Astrid,
You might have to just figure it all out (how to break it off) all by yourself if this is the first time you’ve been in that kind of situation. Like start really caring about yourself and what YOU REALLY WANT.
I”ve been there in your shoes (only once), and lost 2 or more years of my life over it. So I get your belief in this guy
My guy was sincere and nice, too. (except for the lies) I think he probably still is sincere sounding and nice (but is still with his wife) and since I finally put a halt to the messy relationship, he might be with the next “woman of his dreams” (and I supposedly used to be that woman). I don’t know about your situation, but I just loved the discovery of this site and NML’s book. If not for that, I might still be waiting and making excuses for him (and myself.)
You deserve someone’s all, and if your guy is still married, he doesn’t have it “all” to give.
This is the honest truth: I really believed the married guy for a long time. I waited. I wanted.
But, no matter how much I waited and wanted and believed him, he always had a reason for why “it” “we” had to wait awhile longer.
I could not have written this post 3 months ago. I was still hoping.
Be strong.
Like Gaynor said, “he’s a lier and a cheat.”
p.s. Gaynor, if you read this, I LOVE YOUR COMMENTS. You are tough and truthful.
LIsa,
A big thank you!!!
I’ll tell you something, the only thing that helped me see the light was a BIG kick in the pants from my friends. I love them for all of their honesty as I know it was coming from a good place.
astrid miller March 15th, 2009, 1:16 am
I have recently got myself involved with a married man. I believe he is genuine and honest and trustworthy. How do I break it off as I am starry eyed. I know I am in denial. Please help as it is so consuming.
__________________
He is disrespecting the sanctity of his marriage. He is FAR from genuine and honest and trustworthy. If he is doing this in his marriage, he will surely do it to you.
Pull yourself away PRONTO and establish the NO contact rule. Easier said than done, but heartbreak will be avoided in the long run.
Thank you for all your thoughts and comments, I just feel so alone and whilst I am crying now and my heart is breaking, I know I need to distance myself from this person. I want so much to be loved and have that wonderful loving attention from him, but it is only on his terms. I will distance myself and take it hour by hour. Once again thank you all. xxxxx
Astrid,
I’ve been in your shoes and wasted 4 years of my good years on the Married Man (MM). I wasn’t seeing clearly and used him as a crutch so that I didn’t have to feel the emptiness I felt inside. I didn’t love myself wanted to be loved by him. After him I wasted another 3 years with a single EUM who was divorced, but wouldn’t commit to a full relationship. With therapy, this site and working on myself everyday, I realize I didn’t love myself enough and would do anything to escape feeling empty and depressed. I thought my value came from the way I looked and if a man who I was attracted to was loving me. I was so off…I still struggle, some days more than others…sometimes I feel empty and want to reinstate contact with the ex EUM…and have to talk myself out of it…but it is easier now. I realize I want to escape the feelings of loneliness and want to focus on him…then I bring it back to me. I am just missing the idea of the great love I thought I would have with my ex-EUM…not really him…yeah we had fun, but with that came the misery of not getting my needs met. I am learning it’s better to be alone and have self respect than let a man give me a few crumbs. I feel embarassed too, that I did this for a long time. It’s a healing process that will take time. Good luck…..HUGS!
There are no children. I am 52 and he is 60. This experience is so overwhelming that the crumbs he was giving me was enough. But not any more. I have decided to pick myself up and bring back the focus on me. Before it was all about him and his needs and wants; my needs were never a question in his mind!!!! I will avoid all contact and take back my power and do the things that I want to do that were not of interest to him…. example, kite boarding. Bye for now…xxxxxxx
Hi friends,
I need to get this outta my mind.My EUM and I have been in the same city for the last two yeras,but apart from fighting over texts the relationship with him hasn’t gone anywhere.Just 3 meetings in this entire period.That too on my behests.Very few phone calls.About 2 months back,I was disgusted and decided to cut contact.Was very successful but suddenly went back to resuming contact with him.Now back to square one again.Though this time,he is slighly better.He actually came all the way to meet me..I am going to leave the city for good in the next 10 days and my best friend says that his visit was to make up for all the pain that he had caused me earlier.He is not genuine.I do not know what to do.He was unwell when we met so I went out of my way to make him feel uncomfortable,took him to the doctor…and after he lef,have been constantly calling him to check if he is okay.I don’t want him to think that I am a doormat who is always available for him.But I seem to have no control over my feelings for him.I feel like calling him all the time,being close to him…I am not sure if he feels anything like i do…He answesr my calls only when it suits him.He texts though….That is the only thing that he seems to be comfortable with.I feel that mu going away from the city is good for me…as it gives me an opportunity to start life afresh…forget him.But I am scared that I may not be able to get over him even after leaving the place…What if I am not able to move on…Is my life going to be wasted like this…Thinking and oining for a man who is never gonna give me what I want…Please please help me…
sorry there were a couple of mistakes in my post..I meant..when he was ill,I wanted to make him feel comfortable..not uncomfortable.
And friends,I wonder what kind of addiction this is…It never seems to go away…
This is a great article, but what do I do when I’ve done the NC, have really started to see improvement in my life and how I feel – especially about the future, and I’m still getting the texts and phone calls. I delete the texts without even reading them, and I haven’t answered any calls. This past weekend, my phone rang… it wasn’t his number so I answered the phone. He was calling me from another person’s cell phone. He said that the reason he keeps coming back to me is for the sex and that he enjoys being with someone that really cares about him. Am I supposed to be flattered by that comment, because frankly, I found it insulting. I mean this is the same guy that actually uttered the words “we can continue to see each other with the understanding it is sex only.” Who in the hell does that????
I mean I guess my question is, how do you NOT let comments like these shake whatever small foundation of self esteem you have managed to build. I keep telling myself he’s the one with the major issues but it’s not easy to hear somebody tell you what they think you are worth to them. I know I am a better person than that, but still it is a bit hard to take.
Anyone?
Hi Chloe, you let it not shake you by expecting it from him. He clearly gets enjoyment out of your discomfort and even though it may be awkward for a while, screen all calls from numbers that are withheld or not recognised. As soon as you hear his voice, on the message from those numbers (that’s if he leaves a message) delete them. If he gets through, hang up. Stop listening. He’s made it clear he’s an assclown and all he’s doing is confirming that. I won’t lie – it’s not easy but he hasn’t just decided your value now, he decided that a long time ago, it’s just that you recognise him for the useless, nasty, assclown that he is. Also the law in the UK is (and I’m pretty sure you’re here in the UK if I remember correctly) but once you tell someone they must stop contacting you, they have to stop as it’s breaking the law after the second time so you can always report him for harassment which it certainly sounds like it is. Again, none of this is easy. You literally take it one day at a time and rise above it. If you falter and feel shit, pick yourself back up and keep going because he is not the person that determines your worth – you do. People say and do nasty things and even though it hurts sometimes, we have to decide how much power we want to give them.
thanks NML. I guess it’s very hard for me to understand the concept of getting enjoyment out of hurting someone. I guess I am still looking for closure by wanting a reason, but like you said in many articles, I need to get closure by myself. I just want him to leave me alone.
Sorry, the last post was written on my brother’s computer – mine is not working properly so I’m using his. I didn’t realize I had logged in under his name. I know when he reads this he is going to laugh
Brooke~ Please read more of the posts on this website and download NML’s book. This will help you make sense or sort out the insecurities you have about being abandoned. The only way to get the addiction to stop is for you to cut all contact and use the NCR (no contact rule). You need to put your own needs first and stop worrying, fretting, taking care of HIM. As you read the posts here you will get stronger and the NCR will not be as difficult to stick with. Your anxieties will go down, and then your need to reach out for him will also become a thing of the past.
But you have to start somewhere, and you landed on this site for a reason. We’re all here to help and get you on the right track and if you fall off, we can help guide you back. It’s not easy, no one who posts here will say it’s easy, but the more you read the more you’ll wake up and realize that it’s the best site you ever ran across and it’s about being real. Being real with yourself, first and foremost and that allows you to be real with others. You’ve got to start somewhere and this is as good of a place as any.
Good luck and keep reading & posting for help!
Brooke, just read your comment and the shocking thing is that there is barely enough here to call you guys acquaintances never mind anything else. That period of time to have seen each other three times and communicated primarily via text is extremely telling. I appreciate that you have an urge to be supportive but he certainly does not appear to want or need your support and this has become something far bigger to you than what it actually is. The thing is, this ‘thing’ is 95% on your side and the reason why you are addicted to this is because there is nothing there and you are desperate to validate your ‘efforts’ by trying to get him to notice you and do more. Fact of the matter is that you guys are not and have not been in a relationship and he has used you for a vague ego stroke by text and much of the drama that results from this is of your own creation. You have to ask yourself why you are persistently chasing someone who shows little or no interest. If you imagine that you’ve seen him 3 times in 2 years, which is 730 days, that means that based on days, you have physically spent time with him for less than 1% of that time! He may be responding to texts and getting a bit of an ego stroke, but I must tell you that the overwhelming majority of this pain is what you are causing yourself because you refuse to see his lack of interest and effort for what it is and back off. I am sorry to be so blunt with you but I would hate to see you waste anymore time or continue to be so self-destructive.
NML, you are right about “relationship insanity”…I feel like insane, I am blaming myself, I think I scared my EUM, as I am EUW myself…When he paid too much attention, I hated it and told him so, when he disappears – I hate too…Now he disappeared yet again (on and off for 1 year now), and I am very very unhappy! What is wrong with me? I cant be with him and I cant be without him…I know I have to “leave” him for good, I need to change my mobile number, but I am too weak to do that…
There are times when I think back and I want to give myself a hug for being so hurt inside that I choose to be with these men who clearly didn’t know how to treat me as a mirror image of how I felt about myself. Every one I dated had the same patterns; I guess because I didn’t change my tunes but it left me feeling frustrated and hopeless. I guess when you are blind to take a look at yourself, unaware — you might as wear a sign on yourself saying “use me”… but the truth is these men see the signs and you are an easy target. It’s so easy to make excuses because of your attraction to them; but in my opinion although it’s a shame until you are ready to heal; you will still choose these ways of relating in relationships… and push yourself further into humilitation when you look back and wonder how you allowed yourself to not love yourself.
Hi Alika,
The way I did it and finally cut all contact with eum was to take small steps.. looking at the big picture was over whelming.. I was crying in the night I couldn’t stop my habit of texting I could only get to 7 or 9 days without contact then i would weaken and text.. so I broke it down instead of telling myself I can’t break this habit I can’t go without him etc. etc. I decided I would tell myself I could do it.. I took it day by day when it came to day 7 or 9 I would tell myself I am strong I can do this .. I wrote down all the things he did that made me feel worthless and would read it regularly so I could think why would I want to text him.. and the day would pass.. Amazingly doing this I got through 30 days without sending a single text .. I conquered what I thought was impossible simply by changing the message to myself and of course regularly reading what NML writes and deciding I do want better.. Next came ending seeing him once I stopped my texts there was so little contact from him and if we did meet up it was because I instigated it.. after meeting a few times I decided why should I always make the effort and there is no value in this friendship he gets what he wants I get nothing.. It all helped to keep changing the message I was giving myself .. I have with admittly hard times gone two months with no contact..
I think when you are looking at the big picture it is hard to see that you could ever get to a point where he is no longer in your life but if you do it in small steps and change the message from I can’t to I can or ask yourself why you can’t.. then the process will begin..believe me I thought I couldn’t let go either and the message to myself was I can’t let him go I can’t I can’t cry cry … but I have and you can too..
I also won’t lie there have been days when I have felt weak and wanted to jump back in but then I look at how long I have gone without contact and feel some small amount of pride and keep going..
Good luck Alika you can do it !!!!
Tulipa,
Looking back now, isn’t it sad how much control we gave these men. I have to say I am quite embarrassed that I got so caught up in the situation. Ladies, we are so much more than the men in our lives, we must always value ourselves!
That didn’t make sense. I meant to say that we do not need men in our lives to be valued.
Gaynor, I know what you mean, I was embarrassed for the longest time and that made it easy for me to stick with NC. 🙂
Hi Gaynor,
Yes, it is embarrassing I can still turn a nice shade of red over some of the stuff I said and did just to be with an eum…and still embarrassing is how weak i can feel that I want to sometimes jump right back in thankfully I haven’t .. but boy oh boy is there work to be done..
you are right Gaynor we do not need to be valued and defined by a man in our lives …
Astelle,
What happened to your idiot? Did he try to reestablish contact?
Tulipa,
You’re on the right track 🙂
It has been 23 weeks of NC. No, I didn’t like the pain, no I didn’t like the drama, but I was hooked. And I think that I still am.
What is wrong with me? I know this man was and is no good for me, but even though I got off of the roller coaster and the merry go round, I seem to not be able to move on to the next ride.
This guy was a complete Assclown. I cannot seem to get over him. Any advice?
Elizabeth I don’t know your story, and I don’t want to write mine again (at least not tonight), but SERIOUSLY, CONGRATULATIONS ON 23 WEEKS OF N.C.! I’m about 12 week, and I am not getting over him completely, either, (yet) but I hope you, like me feel better without all the stupid drama and roller coaster ride, vagueness, etc… I am not in the frame of mind to try and date anyone else, but I’m not overly concerned about it because now I know how much I need to work on myself in order to be ready for a “normal” guy when he comes my way. I just want to encourage you to keep doing what you’re doing and trust that it will get better,ku and if you let yourself go back into the relationship, you’ll realize nothing has changed. It took me about 3 tries of no contact to make it stick, and the times I gave in and said yes to seeing him, yes to his e-mails, etc…I quickly realized nothing had changed, and had to start all over again with the healing and the NC. Now I’m finally over the hump I think. I hope you’ll get there, too. I think that NML says that it should be at least 90 days for you to start feeling more normal? But that it isn’t the same for everyone. One thing that helps me is that I read these posts and the older ones, too, and then read all the comments so that I can get my head clear to remember that things were never really that great and I can be happier alone than being in a relationship where the guy has no intentions of ever treating me the way I so desire.
Keep posting. So many women have had to do the “getting over the ass’ thing that you can feel their desire to help you get through this!
Jae, I totally agree with you – NML has that ability to deliver the same message in different ways, and it be fresh and relevant and true each time.
I’m at the point of being alone NC for 3 months, not dating, clearly see what last EUM really is and don’t want anything to do w/him again. Thing is, in this space of working on my issues, I sometimes feel empty, lonely and sad, and drift back to dangerous negative messaging or beliefs. Think I’m fine, then have a bad day. Checking back on this site, and seeing a post I may logically know as true but need to hear anew, is invaluable.
Today I was reminded not to wallow, the pain & misery I’m causing myself is ridiculous, and I need to take responsibility and move on. A message much needed. Thank you NML.
Dear friends,
I think my problem goes much beyond my current EUM.To tell you the truth,this is not the first time I have got attracted to an EUM.This has happened so many times in the past The pattern seems to be the same.I get attracted to someboday…the man in question is either seeing somebody else or is just not interested in me.I try pursuing him hoping that someday he would see how great I am and come back to me.This has never happened though…What has happened is fights,bitterness becuase the man is never able to give what I expect simply because he does not love me…I am sick of this now.I don’t know why this happens.The worst part is there was a man in my life who was ready to give me all the love in the world,but I shut him off completely.I just ran away from him.I seem to gravitate towards men who do not value me and run away from those who genuinely love me.Does this indicate any deeper problem?What is happeneing here?I really want to get out of this pattern because I am really smart and successful otherwise.These half baked relationships are destroying my self esteem and eating into my confidence.I am scared if my entire life would be wasted like this running from one EUM to another.Am I actually enjoying this process of rejection that I put myself through again and again…I don’t know…Is there any escape from this cycle?Has anybody experienced a similar confusion?Stability seems to scare me…Am I a drama queen?Do I need something to worry about all the time….Please guide me…I want to break this unfortunate pattern in my life,of getting attracted to EUMs…
Are there actually individuals who are scared of their own success…Who want to put themselves down all the time…I want to know that,cos’ that’s what I seem to be doing…Otherwise why would I put up with so much of rejection and poor behaviour from my EUMs…I knwo of women,who the moment they got to know that the man they love can give them nothing and do not love them back,just moved on..But I seem to be patiently putting up with all the crap,breaking the NC rule again and again and going back to put up with more of this heart ache..
I find a lot of comfort and support on this site…..for those of you who are “addicted” and trying to stay keep up the NC. http://laarecovery.proboards99.com/index.cgi
Hey Brooke,
You said that you considered yourself smart and successful otherwise in life, beyond the inability to find a proper mate. I can relate to that.
Maybe our question is that we have been so willing to commit ourselves to our professional and creative lives in a way that we have not been willing to commit ourselves to our personal lives?
Day to day, at work, we have made good judgements, did not take bull, and journeyed on to be the best we could be in that part of life. But, when it comes to men, we choose those that we don’t really have to truly engage with, because, well, quite frankly, it’s just easier.
So, now we wonder why we don’t have the picket fence. Any wonder, right? We ourselves were maybe never there to begin with.
But, maybe, with some work, we now can be? I hope so. ts.
oops, I meant stay away, or trying to get up the courage to go NC
I think part of it comes down to what you have learned to find acceptable, and to what we have been taught is acceptable by our parents (in my case) and by experience.
For the first 18 years of my life my mother insisted that it wasn’t a big deal if my father pulled disappearing acts with me for months and months at any given time or if he shouted abuses at me in the street or if he said that I was born with the sole purpose of making his life difficult and “you got to accept that because that’s just the way he is and you have got to try to be a good girl and if you take him the right way he will call and maybe spend a sunday with you”. but at the same thing there were things absolutely not acceptable in anyone, like bad table manners for example, or a dislike for books.
So for years I would be hanging on pining for any a*** who was too busy to call me or make time for me (and very ready to be at their beck and call) but I was able to ditch a nice guy who happen not to know who Gustave Flaubert was, without so much looking back or thinking twice.
does anyone else see how backwards that is? it took me 29 years to realize this and to start to “unlearn” twisted notions of what is acceptable and what isn’t in a relationship, but I’ll get there.
Brooke,
I can totally relate to the moments in which we feel we are ourselves “insane”. I have learned a lot about myself from this site. At times still being stubborn and challenging NML’s advice/view point only to realize that it is my reluctance to “accept” that like NML says: I am the only recurring character in my own drama. That I have been an addict to these types of men/relationships and that only I can make the change within myself that we instead want to make in these men. See it is a very hard pattern/habit to break. Believe me I go as much back and forth as you do (and I left my EUM 3 months ago!!) and I just try as hard as I can to have patience with myself. But ultimately what it comes down to (and correct me if i got this wrong) is that it is easier to want THEM to change…..THEM to give us love and we fight all the time trying to make something into something that it is not rather than opting to leave the situation. I believe this is what NML is constantly trying to tell us. To STOp thinking about him, him, him. Yes they are A**clowns, yes they are not connected emotionally like we are (or would like them to be) but the problem really is that WE STAY THERE…….and continue to ask ourselves…why isnt this working for me? And we mistankenly continue to think that it is THEM we have the responsibility of changing so that we can be happy only to find that our efforts and all that energy is really being misused. And we also (or atleast I know I do) think that if we could just get them to see how great we are……they will want us or want to change (what NML would call…trying to seek validation FROM HIM…..rather than seeing that we can find that validation within ourselves!!) And rather than look at the things within us that we need to change in order to stop going out with these types of men…….we get stuck in our lack of self esteem issues by continuing to focus on “HIM”… and that is the “ADDICTION” we have. It is waaaaaay easier to try to fix the other person than to have to really turn around, look deeply at our own pain and try to fix that instead! It is uncomfortable and if you are anything like i am….. I tend to walk around thinking that I dont really have anything to fix! That its these men out there that suck and im just soo unlucky in constantly encountering them!! WRONG ANSWER!!! We play a role in this as well…… and its not about blaming ourselves…..but taking responsibility for our own lives and our own happiness. I know this may be taking it to the extreme, but I sometimes compare myself to someone who is addicted to alcohol lets say. I have a friend who is constantly saying: But my friends are always going out to drink and putting liquor in front of me…its not my fault that I have gotten so used to drinking that now I cant stop. And what does she do every day after work?? She goes to a bar. So is the answer that the world needs to get rid of all bars and all liquor and all friends or people who like to drink? She would think so…. but isnt the answer instead to ask herself WHY she drinks so much? What is she trying to escape from? Yes its hard……..especially being that there is liquor every where you go!!! So i know that may be harsh analogy but If i know that I tend to fall for these types of men, tend to want to be “the fixer, healer, understanding one etc…etc…” than I know I have to look out for men who take advantage of this and I know I need to become a bit more savvy in reading red flag behaviour, trusting my gut more and not getting so emotionally involved soo quick. TO be a bit more cautious, a bit more selective, having higher standards for myself…and the hardest part??? NOT feeling bad about doing any of this. Because yes– like you…I would be thinking right now……but who is going to take care of him? He’s sick?? Oh my god!!! I can’t not, not be there! I am too loyal, too much of a good person to just leave him I would never want someone to do that to me!!!. But in that exact instant is when you need to ask yourself: But is he really appreciating it? Is he really my friend?? What has he done for me lately? And would he do the same for me? Now Im not one to want to think that if i do something You need to give me that back in return. Isnt giving about giving not receiving? But I have learned that we fallback girls have a glitch in that part of our system because we tend to GIVE Too much without at all thinking or expecting that we deserve SOME reciprocity– especially when it comes to relationships!!!!! And I have learned from this wonderful site…….that my standards have been waaay too low and that that is why i am getting……..well….less than what the “standard” should be. I allowing it and accepting it.
So to answer your question of whether or not there is a way out of this cycle…. the answer is YES… but it does take work and time. And what I have found is the most helpful is to continue to remind ourselves that it is “US” not them that we have to change. And to little by little re-program our minds to accept a new belief, a new habit so that we can move forward and enjoy a new type of relationship experience! Again– this doesnt happen overnight! Most of us have been doing this for most of our lives. It would be unrealistic to think that in two weeks or two months we will have rid ourselves of these dysfunctional beliefs and habits.
Sorry for the long response!! But hang in there…….. and keep reading and posting … this site is a tremendous help!!! And whenever you feel you are losing your mind…… remind yourself that you haven’t completely lost it if you are asking these questions because that means you are aware of your behaviour, are willing to do something about it and just need a little coaching like this site and NML to help you learn how to get yourself out!!! 🙂 ~HUGS~
I am about ready to hit the 4 month NC and cannot believe how quickly that time has gone. I still struggle but not as intensely and am at the point in therapy where last week I tied everything together (some of this all occured within one month), losing a relationship of 2.5 years, my terminally ill sister, my elderly parents and turning 50 all in one bundle and coming out with – I am terrified of being alone (not necessarily LONELY, but alone). I have been blithely running through interesting relationships to distract me since my divorce. This last breakup suddenly made me stand back and question what my motives were. I knew what he was and what he couldn’t give practically from the first date – a user. But I hung in there because of his connections and his life. I ignored the fact that he never reciprocated. I have a really true, caring, male friend who would do anything for me and suggests doing those things. Would my ex ever suggest (let alone supply) helping me? Noooooo……and I knew that but still hung in there. I cannot say that I thought I could change him but he did just enough (get those expections DOWN!) to keep me hanging on. The decision to stay is not his fault but mine. And I have thought that I need a nice long break to concentrate and my needs – with myself – since I haven’t had one since the divorce.
And just as I told my therapist that I had become indifferent about the ex – I walked out the door of his office and whammo – a text from the ex. Leading to additional obsessing – all that cr@p. Sick of it! This week he had a friend call my cell asking to take me to lunch. He’s already with another woman. And, I don’t want to change my cell number so I deal with this. Anyway, sorry for the long post but needed to get this out…..Alone but not lonely – I am Ok with myself but still need to decide what is going to make me happy without having to trust someone else will.
Karen, How is your sister?
Hi JuJu
I think there was another Karen posting here before… I dont think I ever wrote anything about my sister so you must be talking about the other Karen? Anyways— Congrats on 4 months of NC and stay strong….this isnt easy for anyone of us!
Oooops – sorry – must have been another!
I know – it is difficult but thankfully the time seems to go quickly and I try not to just fill the time with distractions (though sometimes it feels that way) and to not throw myself into my work just to busy myself. I guess once the weather gets better and its more pleasant to be outside there will be more to do. So, looking forward to that!!
Dear Karen,
Everything ayou have written about yourself holds true for me as well.My EUM has treated me really badly the last 18 months…He was insensitive,indifferent and rude so many times.I put up with all that hoping that one day this amn would see me for the wonderful person I am and try and get back with me.Now I am leaving to a different city and suddenly my EUM has started throwing some crumbs here and there..People close to me have warned me not to bite the bait,but the emotional fool taht I am,I have fallen prey to it again,hoping that this time he has changed.Hope in hell!Last night I sent him a message saying that I would be there for him always and would continue to love him,come what may.There was no reply.How much time doe sit take to say that he feels the same about me…That will never come from this man…He probably remembers me only when he needs an ego massage or when he is passing through a really low phase…I do not want to wait for him to change himself.I would like to change myself instead…
I am finally starting to understand that most of the pain that I am experiencing is from my own actions. I read another NML post that basically said that just because we love these guys and continue to take them back put up with their behavior, does not mean that we can lay claim to them or require that they feel the same way about us. I still think that a man that knows exactly how much you care, tells you he loves and cares about you, and then can turn around and say “It was just sex” is still wrong. It hurts very much to know that he has been seeing other women, sleeping with them, and then when those “relationships” don’t work, comes back and says “I’m comfortable with you because I know you care.” I still am struggling (some days are better than others) with dealing with him being able to treat others with just “basic” respect but he’s not capable of seeing the hurt he has caused me. I mean he still texts me asking if I want to hang out?!?!?!? To know that he is capable of remaining friends with these other women but cannot do the same with me after 5 years, is even worse. I can’t help but wonder what is wrong with me?
NML,
One additional point, from a guy’s perspective.
This comes in two parts, that are not connected. Both have to work, and work well – or you need to run away. And run fast.
First, you have to be able to please him. Dark, mysterious, troubled – needing help – can be great drama opportunities, the chance to “save” the “lost”, to play the healing Florence Nightingale, restore the patient to health and win his everlasting devotion and love.
Know the difference between humor and joy. There is no humor without pain – humor is about embarrassment, about humiliation, about making fun of others. If you can’t tell that being in your (public!) company tends to bring him joy – give him up, because you aren’t the right one for him.
Second, you have to decide – make a conscious decision – whether the effort to please him, to give him a gift of time and attention that he actually and obviously enjoys – is good for you. You have to be careful, if he takes more “maintenance” than you can provide, day in and day out, do yourself a favor and look for someone healthy. And, please, for your sake, the sake of your friends and neighbors, your family, and generations to come, please don’t agree to anything that isn’t healthy and likely to contribute to your own healthy growth.
I like that observation, “It is the dates a girl walks home from, that show her character.” Only, never leave the house without adequate cab fare or a friend to call for emergency transportation. When you see a serious problem, that is the time to bail out.
And you should be the one to bail, for a couple of reasons. First, is that you keep him from manipulating his way with a cute or clever cover story, next you keep the reason and the danger level fresh in your mind. And by taking the action to leave, you cap the event with remembering how you took responsibility for keeping yourself and your heart safe.
Oh Chloe,
Why would you want him to begin with, you know he is incapable of anything real with anyone. The reason he is able to remain friends with other women is b/c they do not require anything from him. Remember, these guys are the kings of irresponsibility!
I don’t understand why you don’t get your number changed again, or get an Order of Protection as NML suggested?
Chloe, you have to realise that you’re still saying ‘But’, just in a more roundabout way. This isn’t a contest and you’re saying conflicting things. Why do you need a man who has lied, cheated, and says he is just in it for the sex, to say ‘Let’s be friends’? You want too much. You want him to validate what you think about his behaviour, you want him to feel remorse, you want him to ‘see’ his actions, you want him to be your friend just like you think he is to all of his other exes, and you want neat explanation and ending all tied up in a bow. What’s wrong with you is that you keep expecting and you are still heavily focused on him. You’re saying ‘what’s wrong with me?’ because you didn’t get picked for his dysfunctional team instead of saying ‘well hold up a frickin second here, what’s wrong with HIM?’ You are holding onto this stuff because you don’t want to let go of the drama and you want to find ifs, buts, and maybes to blame yourself and to hold onto him. There has to come a point when you say ‘stop the madness’
I was finally able to have his number blocked as of yesterday. I’m hoping this is the end.
The latest one that “didn’t work out” is going through a divorce and has a young child. He told me that didn’t work out because it just wasn’t comfortable with her, and the usual “we are both busy and have alot going on” excuse. But, he tells me she continues to confide in him about her divorce, and my gut tells me that the reason he came sniffing around this time was that she probably told him that she needed time, so he’s trying to hook up with me until she’s ready. I guess I’m trying to explain that he could never be a friend to me over the years, but he can be with these women. And he has lied so many times – but yet he says that he comes back to me because he is “comfortable knowing that he is with someone that cares about him.”
NML – you are correct. I am still holding on – and yes, I would like him to hurt as much as me, but I know that won’t happen.
Karen~ After reading your post it is remarkable how far you have come, and how much you have learned in such a short time. My wish for you is that you can lavish or bask in all the emotional accomplishments you have made thus far. I know you are still working through things but you’re getting there -it just takes time.
Chloe~ I’m glad you finally got the number blocked. The less you interact with him the better and just keep working on yourself, your dreams, your goals, your happiness. You deserve much more than this assclown could ever give you. Let him go, it’s time.
Epiphany! I am a “but girl”, in a backwards way. Wow!
My thinking goes like this: “I am a great gal!” But, he just needs some time to deal with his wounds, his past, and his broken heart. When this happens, he will be so thankful that he has me in his life. He will come to know that he is making choices, in his life, other than me, that are not good for him.
“I am so good for him. I can see it, feel it, and know it just by how he is when he is around me.” But, he is a different person around me. He isn’t a jerk to me like he is to other people. He’s so much kinder to me. He doesn’t have that tone of voice when he talks to me, like when he talks to his other woman.
I don’t know why it took me so long to see this. Maybe it is the almost 6 months of no contact. I don’t know, but this is an insight that I just hit upon. I am a backwards “but girl”.
I saw him the other day – as in he was in the same meeting I was in – and I noticed that he continually surrounds himself with not so nice people. That was the moment that the pain of the heartbreak began to lift. Well, to be honest, lifted temporarily. But, I’m doing the best that I can. Maybe next time I run into him, the pain will be lifted for 10 seconds more, and I can build a shield, albeit slowly. Anyway. . .
It finally dawned on me that no matter how kind I am, no matter how caring, no matter how patient, no matter how loving I am, he continually chooses to surround himself with people who are the opposite of me. People who are just like him. Both male and female.
And it became so clear to me, at that point. I would not have any one of those people in my life in any capacity, and yet, he gravitates to them. Here’s the “but” – it dawned on me, finally: What is wrong with me that I gravitated to him?
Addiction and more specifically, some kind of crazy addiction to only him. I have been able to shut others out of my life that mistreated me, but not him.
Now, epiphany aside, my heart still hurts, and I just want to have one 24 hour period go by, where the thought of him doesn’t pop into my head. Even six waking hours would be nice. I want to not to have to think, “Gosh, it’s day 162 of no contact; only 21 more days until the six month point.”
I have a question for anyone still reading this post. Part of my getting on with my life is to actually get out there. I’m not talking about dating, just living it. Occasionally, it is not always possible that a friend is available to see a movie, check out a concert, etc. In the past, i’ve either just skipped doing things altogether because I didn’t want to do it alone. Have any of you just went ahead and did something yourself? And how did it feel the first time and do you continue to do it? With a spring/summer approaching I would hate to miss out because I going solo.
Yes, I go out by myself all of the time.
It got easier and easier each time I did it. Now, it is not hard for me at all to enter most places.
Number one: Get dressed up and made up as if you were going on a date or to work. Not because you are looking for someone, but because it makes you feel good, and especially because you are doing it for you. You deserve to “see” yourself as beautiful. Always, always, always, leave your house with your game face on.
I have recently expanded it to always having my game face on, even at home, unless I am sick. It empowers me.
Number two: If you want to go to a restaurant, choose one that has a bar with tables; you can usually get seated right away, and you can have your dinner without having to wait. Also, choose a place that caters to business travelers. YES, be cautious, because there are many one night ASSCLOWNS out there. But, people who travel for business are quite often alone, and so in this setting, you are surrounded by people with whom you don’t have to engage. Or, if you do want to engage, there are people who are willing to engage in small talk. The other thing is that the bartender is usually always willing to engage in small talk with someone who is friendly.
Movies: Buy your tickets online, and then you avoid the awkwardness of waiting in line by yourself.
Theatre: The same. There are a lot of GREAT seats that are for one only. Again, you are surrounded by people, and the people on either side of you are usually quite friendly.
Chloe,
The first time feels awful. But there must be the first, and second, and third time — if only so as to make sure that these places, concerts, films etc. are no longer associated with HIM in your mind, that you are not dependent in any way – either on him or on any other person. And, as we know, the first step towards finding the right person is learning to feel comfortable with ourselves, when we are on our own…. After all, we do not want to end up thinking “I would go there, BUT only if he, or somebody else, were there”….Otherwise we are stuck….
Chloe,
Yes. I started by doing volunteer work. Not only are you able to contribute to your community but you will also meet some amazing people through the projects. I would also look into classes: cooking yoga, meditation, dancing, school etc……. What ever interests you. There is absolutely no reason not to get out there and live your life.
Also, try Meetup.com.
Chloe,
I agree with Gaynor and Elizabeth.
Find yourself a hobby, a reading group, a knitting group, a running group (you don’t have to pay for those), anything that you enjoy doing. at first it can be daunting. I started by go and sit in my favourite cafe/bookshop (Foyles in Charing Cross Road for anyone who lives in London), the gym, a salsa class, or a restaurant where people know who i am. Now I love to go to the cinema by myself. Museums, exibitions, theatres… the lot.
If you have some money to spend (doesn’t have to be a lot) go for a haircut and some new lingerie or maybe a small treat from the body shop. basically anything that can make you feel good.
believe me it works.
Thanks. I do volunteer work at local library and I am starting to volunteer at local animal shelters. But it’s things like concerts, movies, etc., that I would hate to miss out on. Thanks for all the suggestions.
I go to movies by myself all the time. I love it. You don’t have to share your popcorn, you don’t have to listen to other people’s opinions. You can just enjoy the movie. There is no shame in it. You should participate in everything you want to do without feeling like you have to have someone by your side. And you can meet interesting people at cultural events. Just be open and your fabulous self.
Chloe,
Just one last recommendation: I would say – go out even without looking for new contacts, but just say to yourself that you are doing this in order to observe others (in a good way), to enjoy the company of strangers, to relax while being completely yourself without the pressure of having to talk to anyone or anything else…. It is fun, really. Good luck.
Ladies,
Does anybody have a positive experience with doing therapy for these things? The posts on this site helped me tremendously — I used to think it was simply my nature, my fate, to attract such people/ men. I now realise this can be changed, and booked an appointment with a counselor who was recommended to me. I was wondering whether there is anybody here who could share her experience, and whether it was helpful, in the long run…. Thanks.
‘put yourself in the driving seat, feel the pain, grieve, move on, heal, build your self-esteem and power your own life and feel infinitely better that you’re not freefalling through life waiting for some man, any man to pick you up and put you on the right path.’
awesome!
thank u, thank u, thank u!!!
It’s funny, I was doing just fine then suddenly it comes from nowhere “he’s missing me”. Well if he is, so what? Even thinking that is completely rose tinted!
The urge to contact him is in the solar plexus, but he’s a small man, scared of himself, scared of the world and absolutely no use to me at all. He leaves me in pieces and even used “I’m scared of hurting you” … not that scared of it, or he’d have made sure he didn’t do the things which did hurt me (and which any healthy guy would have no problem avoiding doing but he’s screamingly narcissistic).
Brad’s comment about humour is spot on.
I am sad that there are so many of ‘us’ out there with the same dramas regarding EUM. That said, it’s comforting and inspiring to read all of your posts here and in only a few hours, I’ve learnt a lot about myself.
My NC challenge is that my EUM is also my boss. I see him every day. How do I get out of this when finding another job is pretty hard where I live? I am searching frantically but no joy. He has taken the week off ‘sick’ and we have only had functional ‘no other choice’ work contact via email.
I am determined to break this cycle but obviously that’s easier said than done. I stopped counting my EUM relationships when I made a list earlier and got to 12…..
I found this blog a few days ago and I have gotten so much comfort out of reading everyone’s entries. I too have been involved with an EUM for two years. I have been doing the pulling and pushing with him during the majority of this time. NC is in place and has been for 12 days now. Like many women involved in these kind of relationships I have enjoyed the times together with him and then when he disappears think WTF. and look for faults in myself. But after finding sites like these where other women understand what I am going through I am beginning the healing process and for me it’s was about the loss of my Father and never dealing with that hurt since childhood I know that it has taken me to this place in life. And so grieving a loss that I never did, understanding that people in my life whom I love dearly are dealing with their own pains and it has nothing to do with me, releasing me to stop trying to fix others and fix myself. I know I will be visiting this site often because I need to get myself right for when my Mr. Right for me comes along, I have had Mr. Wrongs to many times…Thank you all for sharing your stories on here..this is a healing place…