Back in the day when I first started blogging (can’t believe it’s about to be eleven years – eek!), I briefly dabbled with using a website to meet a potential date. I describe it this way because the term ‘online dating’ is so misleading; they are introduction websites, not some sort of technology that we can use to simulate a relationship, though goodness knows many thousands try. Until we meet and date a ‘prospect’, they are just that and we are essentially at ‘stage 0’ until such time. All the texting, calling, IM’ng, sexting and whatever else in the world, won’t change that but it will ensure that we build sandcastles in the sky and overload ourselves with assumptions that will ultimately leave us with an Imagination Hangover and a sense of being misled by our ‘feelings’.
Anyway, I digress…
When I put up my profile, it was minus a photo with a bit about me and specifying that I was only interested in a relationship and the age range was 25-34 (I was 27 at the time). I heard from guys right up to seventy years old and received a lot of messages and winks. I found the experience so bizarre that I decided that I didn’t have the patience for it (I would have ended up firing off replies with just, RTFP in them (read the effing profile). Almost all of the messages were inappropriate (too forward) with some being explicit. I’ve always been a bit of a Cautious Carol, so in much the same way that I shied away from drugs when pals were off their face on E’s, coke and speed because I figured I’d be the statistic that would keel over, I also figured I’d be the one who ended up going on a date and being found under a carpet in some dingy flat somewhere.
I’m not crazy about dating (introduction) websites because many people who are actually looking for love and a relationship, have underlying expectations that essentially set them up for a fall. It’s not the technology; it’s the way that people use it and the chaos and pain that results. Putting aside the shady folk that misrepresent themselves online and the persistent collectors of attention, many of the people I hear from, see these websites as an opportunity to meet people in a ‘safe’ way (i.e. in a way that involves less vulnerability and is less time/energy hungry), after all, these days, all we have to do is swipe from left to right or do a few clicks instead of dolling ourselves up and dragging ourselves out to various social occasions while keeping a hopeful/hungry look on our faces.
If we have our feet planted fairly firmly in reality and we know who we are and are relatively personally secure, trying to meet potential partners online can actually be an enjoyable experience albeit punctuated with gritted teeth moments from dealing with time wasters and inappropriate folk, but if going online in an attempt to meet people is a means of avoiding vulnerability, of escaping ourselves, of looking for attention and basically external solutions to our internal issues, we can unwittingly end up feeling aggrieved because we on some level hoped to strike gold immediately or very quickly.
We inadvertently feel entitled to not be disappointed and to be made an exception to the rule of the ‘online dating’ experience that many millions have to go through.
Who do you know in this century, no scratch that- this decade, who met up with the first person they linked up with online and lived happily ever after? What are the odds? Even the people I know who met online in the late nineties encountered some foolishness and effery before that happened!
Why do we go on a site like Plenty of Fish or apps like Tinder or the myriad of sites and apps out there, and expect to strike gold?
I know it would be “great” to have a series of dubious relationships or go through a painful breakup or other loss and then go online or open up an app and come across somebody you like the look of and then shazam, you hit it off and ride off into the sunset as a reward for all of the pain and suffering you went through before that, but that’s not how it works!
As I’ve said many a time before, you practically need Columbo/Jessica Fletcher skills combined with hide of rhino to use these websites, or at the very least, you need to not have a do or die attitude about it as if finding somebody online or in fact, finding somebody full stop, is going to be your salvation, because that’s a recipe for Fast Forwarding and Future Faking (by you and them) as well as codependency and pain.
If we approach dating post breakup with the same (or even worse) mentality that we had in previous relationships, we stand to replicate the same problems. Expecting to ‘strike gold’ with somebody who is already being far too forward or who we haven’t met yet, or who we have not consistently spent enough time with in real life to see them unfold so that we can get an accurate reading, is a guarantee of a rude but necessary awakening.
Rather than us holding on to feeling angry, resentful, wounded and disappointed that we didn’t ‘strike gold’ immediately and that we have to actually take our time and opt out of anything that doesn’t align with who we are, we have to turn these understandable frustrations into the valuable turning points that they are. We must get grounded. We must take a few moments to reflect and have an honest conversation about what we’re trying to do. We must home in on whether we are able to deal with the emotional consequences of engaging virtually with strangers because if we have a tendency to to see potential very quickly or to feel attached very quickly, we have a duty of care to go slower and to recognise those signs in us so that we can be more self-aware and pay attention. We have to also be willing to note any recurring themes that come up with the people or situations so that our blind spot is no longer a blind spot. If messaging, attention, or sex (or whatever) is our kryptonite, these (or the prospect of them) have got to be our cue to be conscious, aware, and present.
When we have a strike gold mentality with dating whether we’re meeting people on or offline, we are coming from a place of fear; it’s a sense of scarcity and fear that a relationship might not be coming to us. That’s not a good space to be in not least because we end up spinning our wheels and being so ‘on’ the prospect of it that we’re blinded and keeping ourselves away from something good because we’re too eager to chase after anything and everything.
Add to favorites
Excellent post again, thank you so much for it!
True. The funny thing is when you go on a site after several years of not being on it and there’s the same men on it. The flirts with no follow up are pitiful. The men you do attempt to contact don’t answer but the men who want just sex are filling up the mailbox. I found the whole thing lame and felt I was exposing myself to too many strangers and therefore have vowed to not go that route again!
An excellent and a VERY timely post for me, as I just crashed from a fantasy relationship after a month of meeting someone online. I knew better. I really did. Yet, I couldn’t stop myself. Our communication was via text/email and we had plans to meet in person once he moved back to my city at the end of the month. Despite the red-flags (future faking), I held on to the potential, because I don’t/didn’t know when and if another opportunity would come, and because I wanted “this” to prove that I wasn’t unlucky in love. Sigh. After a month of back and forth every day, he abruptly stopped communicating. Now I’m feeling sad and hurt, reminding myself not to personalize it. While the outcome stings, I have to be more self aware and stop these recurring themes in my romantic life. Again, an excellent post. Thank you!!!
My sickest, worst, addictive relationship was with a narcissistic, sociopath with borderline personality disorder. lt took a long time to discover she was that messed up because we couldn’t see each other that often. I no longer look for anything but friends online.
This is very true. As someone who has dabbled with various dating sites from free to paid. You approach it with high expectation and inevitably leave disappointed and messed around. In theory it should work, a great way of finding people with common interests and knowing a bit about them, but usually there’s issues like they aren’t truthful, don’t look like their pictures, not over their ex, recently split or not single at all etc.
They make themselves sound way more interesting than they really are. Most people work, come home, watch T.V and go to bed. These guys expect to find women who like abseiling, extreme sports and can play the trombone?!
Seems all guys want way younger, slim attractive women too and these guys aren’t exactly Brad Pitt themselves! How many profiles have I viewed with guys 40+ stating 19 years olds. Slim and athletic women.
Everyone seems to have such high expectations, standards and bad attitudes and of course some are just looking for sex. So you can’t help but to wonder why they are single, they make a career out of picking up women, some have been on for years!.
Recently read that 42% of Tinder users are attached, this gives a more cautious approach to who actually is on the sites, easy way just to mess around. I figured you cannot forge a relationship with people who aren’t in for that. This is why I still remain single after so many years of online dating. I get asked how am I single? Even if you are a decent catch, you can do the while email ping pong which seems alright at first then you never hear from them again.
Timewasting is the major issue of dating sites, why go on them if you just want to waste other peoples time and money?! It’s not just women who do this. Women are always outnumbered on sites, I guess it’s that always something better mentality, keep searching hunting instinct.
I sometimes wonder how it works for anyone and what am I doing wrong. It’s hard to meet people in real life with the dynamic of not knowing much about them, if you meet a bar etc. I feel like I will be single forever!
Cherry you are 100% correct, I didn’t have a date for almost a year, I gave up! I am adopting a 5years old child and I don’t care about men anymore! My friends keep telling me:”it’s will be more difficult to meet someone with baggage!” But do I care?? I rather read a book to my little girl than go to date with some loser!!!
Little Star,
you are awesome for opening your heart and life to a child who needs love. Congratulations on adopting a daughter. Your post is inspiring to keep love open in life, for there are many ways to give and receive it.
I am now engaged to a man I met on a dating website. If I had to build my perfect man, he would still not be as wonderful as the man I’m marrying. I was off and on this site for 8 YEARS!! And yes, I saw the same men over and over, I got frustrated, I went on a lot of bad dates, but it was all worth it. I had to really only look for the qualities I wanted…when I saw one thing I didn’t like, I deleted them. I wasn’t willing to settle for less than what I wanted. And when I was only attracting losers, I took a break for awhile til I was in a better mindset. I could tell when I was attracting guys more on my level. It works, but you have to be in the right frame of mind!!!
I was on dating websites for about 10 years, had one good relationship about 3 years into it, lasted about 1 1/2 years, then we mutually broke up. Was online again for another 6 years with very little luck…until David came along. He is wonderful in so many ways…and so unlike most of the men online. I always figured
“Hey, I am a catch and online…my counterpart just MAY be here too”…kissed a lot of frogs but finally got my prince!
Thank you Cherry!!!! You took the words right out of my mouth. Overweight 40 year old men don’t want to date 40 year old women who are not slender and athletic. Taking a break from the sites and don’t know if I can go back anymore. It’s exhausting.
I recently used OK Cupid as a way to feel better after a nasty breakup. For a few days, it was fun. Emailed several people, had nice conversations. Once I felt my self esteem rise, I deactivated my profile. having used online dating sites years ago, I knew they are only worth a diversion.
Trying to convince my sister of this. She broke up with her partner of 18 yrs and almost immediately registered on everything. she’s pretty, leaves provocative descriptions, gets inundated with requests. every guy who seems great initially, she decides is The One. So far, there have been at least 20 Ones. I tried to top her that virtually no guy on these sites is really looking for a LTR, no matter what they say. They’Re divorced, set in their ways, caught up in work, responsible for children. And they think that the next great woman is waiting, so why close the profile? It’s all romance and sexy texts for a week or two, then, poof, they’Re gone. I don’t know where she gets the energy to keep up these short lived flings. I tell her to get offline, spend time with herself and, when it’s right, she’ll meet someone unexpectedly.
I had fun meeting new people when I tried on line dating for the first time in January. I met a few nice men but didn’t really connect with any of them except for one. We dated for three months. He was probably the nicest any man has ever been to me. It felt good. He started to fast forward things, and after two months was telling me he was going to marry me. He wanted me to help him remodel his house, spend a lot of time with him, and even took me to meet his family. I thought that maybe, just maybe, I had struck gold. Tucked away in my mind was the saying if its too good to be true in probably isn’t. He started to display some more amber flag behavior and I became wary. I hesitated here and was on the fence about what to do. He showed some changes in his behavior when I started to question things more. He became short with me and seemed stressed. Then another red flag with an obvious lie attached to it. It was hard, because he had been so DAMN nice to me. I did think I had struck gold. I hoped I had. I felt anticipation for a possible future that he was painting. Why can’t I be Cinderella for a freaking change? I also felt fear and hesitation that I was being swept up, so I did keep myself in check. I ended it after the last red flag. I am not broken hearted, but I am disappointed and looking at myself seeing how maybe I could of seen some things a little sooner, but damn its hard. Some amber flags are not so obvious until you have enough of them to see a pattern or they stack up enough of a little pile to notice they are there. How long is too long to let someone unfold? How short is too short and not allowing yourself to be open or vulnerable. I am confused at this point. I really am. I opened myself up, yet I was guarded. I felt I had met a nice man until he wasn’t. Now I sit here, a little numb. I feel like I did better for myself than I have in the past, yet I feel upset with myself that here I am again. I don’t feel like I attract this kind of man, but I do feel my need for validation and to be loved may have let me linger when I had reasonable doubts. I may venture into on line dating again in the future. Not sure at this point and will take some time to examine this last go around first.
When it sounds too good to be true it usually is. Just be optimistically cautious don’t believe everything they say watch what they do, if they don’t follow thru then it’s time to go.
Remember Selkie,
There is a difference between “nice” and “good”. I fell for “nice” too. The nicest guy I’d ever met. Soooooo freaking nice to me. Everyday. For months. And then… he wasn’t. I am confused too. People are messed up. You don’t need a glass slipper. Go barefoot for a bit. I read your comments and see a woman who KNOWS what is real and what she wants in a relationship. You just haven’t found that guy yet. We try so hard, do the right things, and it still doesn’t work so we question ourselves and become confused. I see clarity and integrity in your words. You might circle the drain of doubt, but you DO KNOW and you know when to pull the plug. YOU DO KNOW.
Say Something,
I love when you say go barefoot for a bit. I intend to do just that.
The upside of this debacle is that I feel so much more aware, and got a bit of a ‘progress report’ on my own journey. Being single for two years and feeling great about myself was what I needed, but I knew that my triggers and old beliefs may creep up if I started dating again. They did to a lesser extent and I was able to recognize them and adjust myself. It’s still hard to understand people who do things we wouldn’t do or act in a way that doesn’t seem to make sense, but it’s a waste of time to try and figure it out so much that the focus becomes them instead of us. That’s how we become stuck. I’ve spent enough time heartbroken and confused, as many of us here have. It’s time to move forward. I’m not going to linger here in this disappointment because life is too short and I’ve wasted enough time on these kinds of people already. Thank you for the encouragement and right back at you. Let the thunderclouds drift away. Let them go.
Selkie,
Seven years ago this week I was served divorce papers.
The only person I ever connected with (BGE)trashed me one year ago this week.
It’s a rough, disappointing week.
I feel quite aware, and sometimes feel it’s to my detriment. But, like you, I don’t want to continue feeling disappointment.
I know this bit is hard @Selkie and I wonder if its also important to guard our hearts just a bit. I mean that every rejection hurts. Its hard to pick yourself up and ‘love’ someone else or think of someone else as the ‘one’ immediately again and again. If you do, you’re kind of wearing your heart out almost. Either you’ll be jaded or you’ll be a sucker for every kind of love trickster out there… So I have no answers for this except it sounds Selkie like you did the right things. You were open and unguarded enough to take a chance, to give someone a chance, to try. And then when the amber flags started you stepped back a bit, and then you got out. That is great, thats all one can do because you can’t control the other person.
I hope this won’t make you cynical. Someone said it really nice last week that we dont have to stop being our true loving selves in the face of all this relationship crap – though the question is how you do that while being strong as well, standing up for yourself, and not getting too jaded etc etc. its a balancing act and when you find the right person, it will seem natural.
He’s just not the right person for you/anyone. Its not about you. So you need to keep going, but give yourself a little time for closure and grief. Even silly relationships require closure and grief.
You could examine, but I think we dont have to examine too much. Beyond serious ‘mistakes’ – staying too long, taking abuse, being abusive – nothing else really needs to be fixed. You are you in all your crazy glory and you already have so many friends and people that like you just as you are – you dont have to fix yourself to be liked. I mean you can’t have ‘said the wrong thing’ etc because no relationship dies for one wrong thing. I think you should sit with the grief because perhaps examining is a way to avoid the grief – the grief doesnt need examining, it needs to be experienced. Phew. Its really hard to do though – I need to sit with grief and I am running from it all the time! good luck Selkie, you’re on the right path.
“I’m not going to linger here in this disappointment because life is too short and I’ve wasted enough time on these kinds of people already.”
That’s awesome Selkie, just a bump on the road, keep on moving.
Selkie
I think it can take at least 12 months to really get to know someone. In the meantime you have to guard your feelings and don’t fall in love too soon, you can like and have a great time with someone but until enough time has passed and you can see that they are who they say and who you think they are, don’t fall in love.
It’s too easy to get caught up with someone who comes on really strong but these relationships don’t last or maybe occasionally they do but that’s the exception and not the rule. I think we’ve all been through the instant attraction and called it love because that’s how we felt and we try to hang on to that feeling when it’s obvious 6 months or less down the track it’s all falling apart.
As for online dating sites, 99% of the people on there have their own agenda and that’s their issue not yours. If they disappear or suddenly stop emailing or calling, really, who cares. They may have met someone else and let’s face it, you’re not the only girl they are writing to or calling. Don’t get too excited about anyone until you see some quiet and calm consistency and that their actions do match their words or you will be disappointed every time. If you stop contacting someone because a much cuter guy has contacted you, most guys couldn’t care less and you know why – because they aren’t emotionally engaged, you don’t mean anything to them and they can easily hit the next button, same as you can.
I don’t know how men do this but I have been told many times that when they meet a girl they know whether she will be the one or not. It’s like a switch is flipped inside them and it hasn’t got anything to do with whether you’re blonde, brunette, tall or short etc it just happens. If that switch isn’t flipped you could look like Angelina Jolie and it wouldn’t matter, they just aren’t feeling it.
That old thing your granny told you, find a man who adores you, is true. Until then, be like a guy and stop caring so much.
That might sound rather cold but it’s a lot better than being on an endless roller coaster of emotional highs and lows about men who don’t care for us and are out for what they can get and they get way to much from us most of the time.
Hello Selkie – I am sorry you have been through this experience – I can’t remember who said this, so forgive me, but
‘don’t let today’s disappointment cast a shadow over tomorrows dreams.’ Feel it and use it as you’ve used it before.
Do YOU feel you are not measuring up to your own goals and expectations of yourself and your life? – Where do you feel good about yourself and your life? Spend more time indulging in those things, noting them and congratulating, loving yourself.
When I set myself up to hope for something and that hope isn’t met I get disappointed but that can lead to serious discouragement if not dealt with quick and each disappointment needs dealing with or else. It seems he gave you many reasons for disappointment, to take the drama out of this you ask yourself and keep asking yourself (as you have already!) – is this a worse or better experience than the last relationship? If better, pat yourself on the back.
Next, move on…
don’t let him be the shadow over your true dreams and your days ahead – he is not worth the effort and time wasting.
What did you learn from this relationship and what can/will you do next time to protect yourself more?/help you gain the knowledge you need?
I feel down when I’m disappointed with someone or myself but you don’t have to stay down. Instead of focusing on your problems and disappointments discouraging you – you actively do right in focusing on what you did right here – even if you feel its little – starting from noticing what was happening for real in the relationship – its huge!!! – what worked? and will work again, focus on what made you feel good WITHOUT them, before they arrived in your life, and do lots of it as soon as you can. All the best.
Thank you Oona. What I AM seeing is that maybe my old issues are not as healed as I thought. Dating again after a two year hiatus is bringing up some old shit I thought I had long ago put to rest. My triggers and the need to be loved to the point that I would take a few steps further down a road that I knew had nothing but bad down it makes me question myself. I was feeling so great before I started dating again, so yes, this experience is disappointing and depressing me more than I expected because I really expected a different outcome…within myself and also with this guy. Mostly within my own actions though. I engaged in drama with him on more than one occasion, which at some point my inner crazy who I thought I’d tamed started to come out and whisper “remember meeee”. I went back to some old ways, but you are right I did learn something here. My fear of abandonment and trying to right the wrongs of my narc, socio pathological lying father by trying to get a man who lies to change for me and make me feel worth it. Yep, deep stuff thats starting to rise to my consciousness in the wake of this. On line dating helped me see where I need to work on things more. I recently got good medical insurance and I’ve thought about seeing a counselor now that I can afford it. I am trying to use this to help me grow but it’s tough when you’re feeling a little heart sick, but time will help. Thank you for the encouragement.
Awesome post as always Nat. I couldn’t agree more with you Sandy and Cherry. I have been online dating on and off for about 2 years now. As Sandy said above its so sad when you go back online and see the same guys as you did 6-12 months ago, what are they actually looking for? I would seriously love to know!! It really does make me wonder at times if they are just time wasters, bored and want attention.
These days I try approach online dating with any expectations because I am over being constantly left disappointed.
I joined eharmony for the first time about 2 weeks ago. Gosh its so expensive being single isn’t it?! I thought I might have better luck seeing as I am paying AU$180 for 3 months. I am not fussy but I am not interested in someone who is 55 or someone who lives 3 hours away. I have a date this weekend with a guy who is 47 (I am 38), we have had some really nice emails back and forth and also chatted on the phone. He ‘seems’ nice (so far so good). Wish me luck ladies. Thanks again Nat.
Dating sites are expensive and you would like to think that weeds out any timewasters. Apparently not. I’m on Match.com in the U.K. You still get idiots timewasters and fake profiles, because people have the option of the odd month here and there. Dating sites really need to clean it up, but they just care about the money.
I’m 39 and I get anything to from 19-60 year olds trying their luck. Funnily guys around my age state 30’s as a cut off. They seem to be looking for younger women(as mentioned in my previous comment) What would a 40+ year old have in common with a 19 year old?! Ridiculous.
I’ve travelled the world, I’m interested in history, different cultures, theatre etc. Currently studying psychology but have an interest in social sciences. I can actually hold a conversation. I guess they are just looking for a trophy girlfriend or one night stand.
Cherry, and how many couples do you know where the gf
-wife is 20 years younger and 40 kg lighter than her average bf-husband? Unless the guy is rich, not many. That’s why men with such over-inflated egos and unrealistic expectations stay on dating websites for years.
I love your posts! With me being divorced,after a long marriage and dating again in my 50’s..I’ve done the “online dating”scene.I’ve never seen so many “50” yr old men.and they say us women lie about our age..lol. I have met a couple nice men and a lot of not so nice.I don’t stay on site long,too many lies and games.I’ve found a lot of men my age and older who don’t want a committed relationship,they just want to be fwb’s.
I really enjoyed reading this and FINALLY someone who (yay Natalie) who is stating the problems with online dating. I had a few sessions with a dating coach who told me point blank I had to have profile online and date online or I will always be single since that is how everyone is meeting these days and I simply need to get over myself. I am VERY uncomfortable with online shopping for people – it isn’t me and although I had some fun conversations, delicious dinners, concerts, plays, gifts, I also met some horrible guys who completely faked their profiles and others who played the game and just wanted to get laid. None of the dates I had were with men I say more than three times. I had a guy once walk out on me without even saying goodbye on a coffee date after looking me over up and down – rude! Several of the men I met told me they frequented sites such as match.com and eharmony since the more “serious” and relationship sites had women who would more easily have NSA sex vs. the usual hookup sites like Tinder. The overall market online is….yuck. Now I make an effort to dress up, smile at men when out, go to networking events and decided to follow my gut and get off the online meet market.
Tara, it is too bad about your dating coach. I almost signed up for a service like this, but in doing some research discovered that he was one of those coaches who dump all over you for not being online.
I’ve experienced online dating as demoralizing and demeaning to my psyche and heart. I just cannot see why anyone would insist on me doing something that causes me obsession, despair, and diminished self-esteem. I have tried online dating 15 times at least in the past eight years. Been on Okcupid at least SIX times (includes times I took a break or deleted my profile), Match.com at least three times, been on Chemistry.com, Plentyoffish, and several smaller niche websites for book-lovers etc. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.
I notice nowadays the quickest way for me to lose respect for a dating “expert” is when they start advising that everyone should be online because it is such an easy way to meet someone. The reality is that online dating is not “free” and it is not “easy”. Even if you pay nothing, there are hidden costs:
– hours spent trawling through profiles instead of going outside
– having to find recent, sexy pictures (good luck if you’re someone like me who is camera-shy. I even paid for a professional to take magazine-worthy pictures of me, and it still did not improve my chances)
– as a black woman, seeing studies that say that you are at a disadvantage online and men don’t want you
– angst about whether to initiate or to wait for men to approach me
– men I send a thoughtful message to about something in their profile not even responding!
– when you do get a date, the stakes are high because you really hate online dating and want someone to rescue you from it.
I found that if instead of online dating, I attend speed dating events once a month, join various meet-up groups, and other events where I can meet people, I feel more positive about myself and my interactions with potential dates are calmer. I also meet new female friends! I feel more confident because I know I look good in person and present well. And even if a guy is not interested in me, at least I can have a conversation with him as a human being. In real life when I approach men, they don’t reject me on the spot and just walk away shaking their heads. Online, men do. Why would I put myself through all of that?
Very good post again the timing is impeccable as I have just ventured back on dating websites. I just see them as another opportunity to meet that someone. I am doing other things but at 42 going out every weekend clubbing or to pub is not appealing. You do have to be so self aware and not get overcome with emotional ties or virtual chat etc
Jackie – totally agree. I just started and I’ve realized that you have to set a lot of strong boundaries. One dating site I’m on advertises itself as being for people who look for more serious relationships, but it, too, isn’t invulnerable to people who are looking for no strings attached hookups. If the first thing a guy asks you to do is to go visit him without even considering where you live, he’s totally out. I don’t want people who are a lot of work…
FOOL’S GOLD
I struck gold! Fool’s gold! Online. FeS2. Maybe that will be my new name for him. Eventually. I met the BGE online and thought he was for real. I had never been so sure. And last night I was reading NML’s ‘The No Contact Rule’ which btw is the GOLD colored book. I became so overwhelmed that I had to stop reading and shove the book under my pillow.
What appeared to be a LTR was NOT. I THOUGHT he liked me. I THOUGHT he cared. I THOUGHT we had a future. Because It LOOKED and FELT like a genuine LTR. JUST LIKE FOOL’S GOLD at first looks real. Natalie’s words are so true. This book was not what I expected, but just what I needed.
When “put to the test” nothing is real. Here is how you know you’ve uncovered fool’s gold, as I related to this book:
“They are rejecting what they don’t want to be or do, including:
Having to love
Having to communicate
Having to be emotionally available
Having to care
Having to empathise
Having to recognise someone’s needs other than their own
Having to trust or be trusted
Having to be relied upon
Having to be respectful
Having to recognise and respect your boundaries
Having to be committed
Having to be expected or needed
Having to deliver on the words that come out of their mouths
Having to make an effort
Having to think and be conscientious with integrity.”
Fool’s gold is shiny. And magnetic. And unstable.
Hello Say Something,
Very loooooong day. I hope you get some sleep. NO a big no to online dating. I think it is probably the place where creeps , liars, cheats and meat hunters reside. I will take my chances and look for my next beau on my own. I have read every post about online dating. The best thing I can do is go out and socialize.
I wish I had a mate for Selkie and every dear heart on here looking for decent men. Looking for a new mate is going to be a full-time JOB. WOW.
I wish everyone on BR the BEST as we look for men with souls. SMILE.
Hugs,
MJ
MJ,
I look above at the list from Natalie’s book and I realize that I make all the issues specific to me..
Having to love ME
Having to communicate WITH ME
Having to be committed TO ME
You get the picture. I am still feeling the rejection OF ME. Ughhhh. When I have more time, I’ll post more online antics.
But, I can say my profile has been viewed @ 7000 times (not unique people, but total views) I have been “contacted” by hundreds via clicking my photo, a wink, favoring me, saying yes in the daily match, or actually writing a message. Usually 5-10 men weekly. Once it was 44. I’ve gone out on a date with @20. Relationship
(BGE)with just ONE, which is why I found BR. Last week a 25 yr old. I’m in my 40’s. Anyhow, more later. Doesn’t matter what I write. Click. Click.
Say Something,
I just read thru all the posts on BR about online dating. I am probably going to have a nightmare tonight. These are horror stories!! Is this why we wanted things to work out with these two creeps we are no longer with. Dating is a tough business.
Rejection hurts and no one likes it. I just cannot – I repeat cannot do the online dating. I would have my photo out exposed to all the creeps including the one I dumped for cheating on me YUCK.
Is there a better way to find someone? I want a real man’s company. Wow you have had a lot of views!! I just cannot do this meat market. Can you tell if your x is looking at your profile?
I think @Tara put it best online shopping for people-is not something I want to do. I am just disgusted with the work that has to be done. I need to take a break just to think about this.
I think someone needs to develop a catalog that I can sit at home and just flip thru. When I find the number I like I can put in an order for a date. One lady told me that one dating site she was on was strictly for people who want to hook up (YUCK). She had no idea until she met up with these creeps. Instead of eating dinner they were ready to nibble on her. I am over damn whelmed (LOL).
Say Something where do we go from here? HLEP!
Hugs,
MJ
Good morning MJ,
If you haven’t read ‘The No Contact Rule’ please put that on your list. The end of the book is painfully realistic. I’m reading some of my own thoughts in there, and it’s brutal, but it’s real and that’s what I need. She lists the questions/ concerns in our heads that we seek answers and validation for (from them).
This week is so hard for me and I’ve done much crying over BGE/FeS2. Today I’ve been awake since 4:30 AM because I still can’t sleep. One year later and I’ve never slept a full night. Not even once. Idk if it makes a difference that I met him online. Last wknd I was briefly communicating w someone who initiated contact. His profile said “you can’t be jealous or insecure” because he and his ex-wife were “bird-nesting” w their kids. I asked if that meant rotating patents in the house so the kids stay in one place, and yes, that’s what it is. Anyhow, I commented that it wouldn’t work for me in my situation w my ex, and that I knew someone who tried for 6 months. I asked what else about him would he like to tell me. He disappeared. Okkkk… I realized also that in our brief exchanges he never asked anything about ME. Nothing. Seriously though, does a guy realistically think he’s going to build a LTR while sharing a house (for a decade or more) with his ex? Nope, just everything on his terms. K bye.
So I still have my online profile. BGE does not look at it. Idk if he’s even active anymore. It shows who clicks into it, unless they pay extra to be “undercover”. Without clicking into a profile, it shows the main pic, the first sentence, and when the person was last active. I feel like I am never, ever, ever going to get over this. Like you, I got the kiss goodbye and never saw him again.
http://elitedaily.com/dating/women-never-really-forget/645125/
“When a woman loves you she will never forget how it felt to love you. But break her heart and she will never, ever let it go.”
You can let go. You can. It takes time. When I first found BR I was a mess and so brokenhearted that my soul ached from a break up from an abusive man. Of course, NC helped immensely but making an effort to stop my obsessing was key. I would make a goal with myself to limit the amount of time I talked about him to anyone. I would start with going one day without saying his name or anything about us or him out loud. Slowly the time increased to a few days, then a week, then over time I stopped talking wanting to talk about him. I would allow myself some time think about him and what happened because you need to and it’s not realistic to just force yourself to stop thinking. When I did think of him for longer than the goal I set for myself for the day, I knew I was starting to obssess, I would try to get up and do something like write a short story, read a book that WASN’T about relationships, watch a very funny movie, change my course of thinking to stop the habit. It didn;t work overnight but it did help me stop ruminating and obsessing. I no longer wanted this heartbreak to be my story or the anchor around my ankle. I don’t know, we all have our ways of coping, and some of us get stuck. I tend to get stuck so I came up with these ways to actively pull myself out, other wise I would ruminate and over think, rethink, then think on it some more. It’s not easy, but it IS possible.
Thank you Selkie,
I feel like a brokenhearted mess. I have only one person I talk to about him, and she’s 4 hrs away, so I’m not sitting over coffee and ruminating. Just in my mind and being able to say things here. It’s hurting me to be so unhappy and I just don’t know why I can still miss him even though I know, when all is done, I meant nothing at all to him. I don’t know why I’m overlooking how he treated me in the end, why I’m not focused on THAT, and why I remember him as the BGE that I missed out on, that I believed was the nicest guy I had ever met. This is the one thing in my life I can’t get a handle on and I’m embarrassed to even acknowledge it. Nobody (except one friend, anonymous BR posters, and my therapist) has any clue that I am stuck like this.
Today I threw away a sheet set that I’d given him a pillowcase from (yes MJ, it’s GONE). I wish he’d been more of a jerk along the way, then I would never have stayed in a fake relationship. I guess I’m not convinced that I can let go. I must be the most stubborn person ever. “Letting go” of someone who I don’t have any contact with, who disappeared, and who doesn’t even like me should not be so difficult.
Selkie, I can’t believe you are getting letters sent overnight. That is pretty extreme. Please be careful!
Say Something,
When a relationship changes or stops, even abruptly ends like yours did, it doesn’t mean he never liked you or you never meant anything. That is being too hard on yourself and minimizing your worth. He may have his own personal internal issues he couldn’t get past even if he didn’t let on like he had any, he may be EU and over estimated his ability to be close and vulnerable. He may also be the biggest creep in the world, or a little bit of all these things. Look at Tiger Woods again. Now he cheats on a beautiful accomplished gold medal skier after he probably should of learned his lesson after cheating on his equally beautiful wife and kids. It wasn’t about any of these women, it is his own issue that leads him where he is. I do understand the painful kind of confusion this kind of breakup leaves because it doesn’t make sense to us when we don’t have all the information about what is really going on inside their head and you never got a vote or a say in any of it, right? But….normal emotionally available and healthy people don’t just wake up one day and leave a seemly great relationship without any warning. He did, so my guess is he was good at avoiding his feelings and was probably very EU but may not of been aware of what that even is. Maybe is emotionally immature. It’s hard not to feel like we weren’t good enough when someone leaves like that, but it isn’t always about us. I know it’s easier said than done to let go, but YOU CAN. It takes time, and it isn’t always on the time frame we want. You just have to keep moving forward and making the effort, even when you get tired. Change other patterns in your life as well, like new places to go, new hobbies, and slowly you emerge on a new path. These things all worked for me ( slowly ), so I can only suggest them, but I do know we can move past these things. Many of us here have, some are still trying and some feel like it’ll never happen. Been down each path and I lived to tell and I even manage to be happy most of the time, except for the occassional hiccup ( which I am experiencing) . Sending positive support wherever you are.
Selkie/ MJ,
Thank you for your support. I finished reading the NC book last night, but I need to take a look at much of it again, because the brutal reality needs to sink in.
Today begins my one yr anniversary of TLW. I have nothing planned to combat this thinking, as it might seem artificial and just serve as a bandaid.
Idk Selkie, and I never will, if anything he ever said was true. To me, if he had any sense of caring and compassion, things wouldn’t have abruptly ended, with him falsely stringing me along telling me he hadn’t given up, that we needed to talk in person, pretending that I’d see him again. Anyhow, I know reality is that it’s my crap to deal with now.
Re. Tiger Woods- I hadn’t even seen that he and LV split. I wonder why someone as talented, beautiful, and high profile as she is would be with him to begin with. No matter how slimy he behaves, he still gets a top notch partner. And this concept is adopted by most, it seems.
So my two current online stories:
1. Guy 10 yrs older msgs me TWICE on what a great catch he is, how alike we are, that he’ll provide his #, while acknowledging that he is out of my target age range (which I have at 5 yrs +/-). Anyhow I thanked him for the msg and said no thanks, and that it concerned me that his range was ONLY younger women that didn’t even include his own age. I added that if I applied that to myself, I’d be dating 30 yr olds. Then I got the “women my own age don’t respond” (lie) and “I’m not being fair, but I’m entitled to my opinion” msg. I did not respond. He then followed up with the guilt trip email that he was married to an older woman who died of cancer and his words, “People like to judge others without knowing them and this just gives another avenue for that.” I don’t WANT to date a guy 10 yrs older that can’t write a sentence properly. Should I say… You are too old. You look older than you are. I look like I could be your daughter. I don’t find you attractive. You can’t write a sentence. You are judging ME because I don’t want to date you. I actually said that his age range CONCERNED ME, so I put it ON ME. I never said anything about HIM or anything negative about him as a person. I even followed up with “I’m sure you do have all the good qualities that you say” and wished him the best. Tried to be polite as possible. BTW I think his status says divorced, not widowed. Anyhow, just sharing. Not responding to his guilt/drama msg.
2. Bird-nesting guy who disappeared for 5 days responded. I have not read the msg. Ummm I really want a relationship, but sometimes I’m SO BUSY. SO SO BUSY that it takes me 5 days to write a 5 minute message. I will condition you to accept that, along with the fact that I have declared that YOU CANNOT BE INSECURE OR JEALOUS of the fact that I am forever joined at the hip with my ex. It’s for the sake of my children, who are more sensitive and precious than your own. And my time is more valuable than yours. Ok that’s my jaded outlook.
MJ- I read the link. Thank you. I know I need to work on acceptance. Not sure about forgiveness. I have many mixed emotions right now.
@Say something; I’m not sure why you’re online. A single message from someone you are not even interested in (older guy) hooks you quite badly. You are adding to the number of things that you can’t let go off…
Please see that all this is obsessing. Its not about them, its about you. He (former-BGE-in-reality-just-another-guy) isn’t causing the obsessing, you are creating the obsessing.
I totally understand obsessing. If its hard to let go, at least try not to be online since it is clearly adding to your list of things to obsess over.
In fact, I think a lot of us on here or maybe just a lot of people generally, have generalized anxiety (disorder or not I dont know but generalized anxiety yes). That means that there is a well of anxiety in you and you look for things to attach to. When one thing dissipates you either hang on to it or look for other similar things to take its place. Perhaps this is why we go for EU people because it feeds our anxiety and we are somehow paradoxically soothed by anxiety.
By projecting outward (who does this guy think he is! the world! its out to get me!) you are able to rehearse and practice your anxiety thereby believing you’re safe (grrr! I’m keeping my guard up up up!), while also reaffirming that you need the anxiety because the world is a bad place and people can’t be trusted.
Knowing that online is full of un-trustworthy people, and knowing your tendency to obsess and take things too seriously, you’re setting yourself up for feeling crazy (which is your home anyway) by being online. To me the most unhealthy thing we’re doing is being miserable and repeating the same thing – either embrace your crazy by staying online and laughing at all this and being totally carefree about it, or stop being online. As Natalie says, doing the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome makes us feel crazy.
I read somewhere and this post says the same, that dont do online dating if you have a thin skin. I have a thin skin, I live in a small town and dont want my picture to be out there, I dont do casual relationships, and I dont like most people – so there is no point me being online even if that means being alone. I’m happier this way.
Hello Say Something,
I ordered the No Contact book since you said it was pretty good. I am already surrounded by TONS of books. I will be reading for days.
Leave those guys alone contacting you online. They sound creepy. I like what you said to the man trying to date someone like you (younger and hotter). You called him out on his nonsense. Good for you. I am not really even trying to date. I am happy that you are making the effort. You may just meet someone who is decent. Weed out all the garbage. The one living with his ex sounds messy. Don’t bother with him. You are not jaded you sized him up quick. You will go into your next relationship much wiser.
Yuck about Tiger Woods. I read about him online and Selkie is right he cheated again. He is going to continue to find some of the BEST women. That is so sad. I would be so afraid (STD) of dating someone who gets around like that. But the women will be in line to date him (nasty). This man is out picking up prostitutes like it is a hobby.
Dating is so tough. You really have to gear up to do this. It’s Friday and I just dread the weekend. But I have plans. I have to admit. I sat in the park and cried after my workout. (That BASTARD could have told me he had someone else, but no he just kept running around hotel floors like a rat until I found out).One day things will be different. One day. I need someone to give me the date when this will all be OVER.
Hugs,
MJ
Say Something and Suki (Suki, there was no Reply button under your post about anxiety), I agree that many of us here on BR might have anxiety disorder issues. Some mild, some more serious. I have always had anxiety, which I finally came to terms just recently. One of the signs is the obsession. Creating a tense state where I am anxious about something, worrying, and trying to control. That’s why it took that long to let go of the ex, and I am still working on it. That’s why I used to go online (pre-most recent ex, that’s where I found him) and create, recreate, and maintain that obsessed state of hyperalert, controlling, defending myself, protecting, being indignant, you name it, but it all boils down to some kind of repetitive, self-destructive behaviors. Wanting to recreate the chaos, uncertainty, the environment where I doubt and dislike myself, and feed from all the negativity. I have had the anxiety all my life and only recently the fog is lifting and I understand and work on mitigating or eliminating it. It is the past and its burden. Read Codependent everyone who has similar concerns.
Say Something, what does online dating/attempt to date bring you? Be honest with yourself like you always are, and ask yourself, what I am getting from it? I agree with Suki that the online experience brings on more things to be upset about, obsess, “control,” and get disappointed, all of which bring you back to square one: obsessing about the ex, which was probably pretty normal on the paper, compared to all the creeps online. So you compare and that might make you feel even sadder and your attachment to him keeps on growing although the relationship has been dead for a long time.
I agree with Suki again. He was not BGE. He was just a guy. A person who messed up and made a mistake sometime maybe earlier in the relationship but never expressed anything and kept on going (stringing you along). Men don’t like facing conflicts and upset hurt women. Maybe it reminds them their crying mothers, I don’t know. They would rather disappear or finish abruptly and “nicely” (“it didn’t work out, sorry, it happens, but you are great and awesome blah blah blah”), then talking it out, making it work, etc. Plus, guys, once they make up their minds, that’s it. Even if they later regret on some level, their egos won’t allow them to come back or even say sorry later on. Or even feel sorry. They rationalize and compartmentalize things very well. We women are not biologically wired that way. We intertwine every thought and action with feelings, empathy, and caring. For guys it’s more logistical and pragmatical. It didn’t work for your ex or the ex from my past, and they decided to end on their timing. They might have planned it in advance. The end result – they are done with us. And that’s it.
Very importantly – HE IS NOT THE PERSON FOR YOU. Otherwise, you would not be here. You would be with him. Living together or planning out the upcoming weekend.
I would recommend you a different counselor. Sometimes we might even get stuck with the same counselor because they might be ineffective (every profession has its ineffective people), but it might be what we need, unfortunately. I am not saying yours is not good, but it might be worth a try to talk to someone different.
Suki, I agree with you yet again. We have to also at some point TRY to pull ourselves out of it. I know I tried but it didn’t work for me. However, I tried in subtle ways. Mostly though I let time do the healing. And when sad thoughts come back to me, I don’t dwell and obsess. I feel the sadness and let it go. I am still healing but I have stopped my mind from ruminating about him. However, I have to say, most of the work has been the TIME itself. After 16 months, the pain is there but is dulling gradually although slowly. Once you reach that point, catch yourself at obsessing and repetition. Read a book. Write something. Mental work is distracting. Physical not as much because the mind is free. I thought about the ex for a year while working out in the gym. When my mind was free he was constantly on my mind. My thanks are to God and the timing I am finally free from him. Almost.
Say Something, I said it and will say again – you will come to the point. But please recognize, and Suki is explaining so well and brings up a good point I haven’t thought about, that you and me and other BR readers might very well likely suffer from anxiety/obsession disorder. It could be mild or nonexistent before but triggered by what happened. It needs to be addressed seriously. If unattended it will grow into more serious issues and you might end up being stuck your entire life with the memories of him and the last weekend. I surely thought I would by the end of about a year and terrified that I am still thinking of him. I remembered the image from some movie where a very elderly woman is sitting in her room in the chair. The room is dusty, covered with the webs.She sits there and looks at her wedding picture. In fact she is wearing the wedding dress that she was wearing in the picture. Her relatives and friends stopped coming to her place. She voluntarily locked herself in with the picture and spent years or decades in her asylum. It was a fairy tale, I think, but could become relevant to some of us, at least figuratively, if we don’t start taking care of ourselves and appreciating the gift of live and the years we have ahead.
I hope I don’t sound too harsh. I know you are sensitive to criticism ( I am too – another sign of codependency and anxiety). I want so much for you to be and feel better, Say Something. I recognize anxiety and obsession symptoms in myself. I still nervously react and get panicky when I see a car like his, a man looking like him. I still obsess, but I stop myself, breathe deeply and slowly, and keep on going.
I hope you and Mary Jane have a wonderful weekend. There are so many interesting things to do, read, and see. You will get to the point where your life feels full again or actually even better than before. Because you will have grown and matured. Suffering and epiphanies make us better and stronger. You will get there. You will have your AHA moments. They are too maybe subtle, but they are milestones. It’s not like I woke up one morning and felt better. No. It’s ongoing, but now, most of the time, except for short lasting periods of sadness, I feel he is the past now. He is the past and someone that had to happen to me. He (not just HE, I rather mean the entire relationship and my role in it) was the last straw that drove me to reevaluate my entire life, to turn from adult-child to an adult (and still growing and learning to walk with baby steps and now toddler running almost!), and to become aware of myself, liking and even loving myself, and learning to be in peace with who I am.
Suki, thanks for the amazing insight.
Hi Suki,
Thank you for your thoughts.
I do often question why I maintain the online profile. I guess, as a few have mentioned, SOMETIMES there is a good person worth finding, so I think maybe it’s worth sifting through all the NOs to maybe find one YES. I do plan to cancel this summer when my subscription runs out. I have learned to disengage; to not expect much; and to be direct when needed. It still sucks for the most part. But I continue to hope…
I should clarify, I am not at all “hooked” by these in-and-out disappearing acts, nor do I obsess over them. I really am just trying to express the craziness of it, and trying to find some humor along the way. Is it one more layer of crap? Probably. But I’m not hanging on to or attached to random online guys. Really. Annoyed, yes. General disappointment, yes. Hooked and obsessed, no.
For as social as I am, it is almost impossible for me to meet an available, single, good guy in real life. I’ve dated one for a few months in the past six years. And guess what? He had an online account, but not with the same service. The other two “real life” people were EU, and after that (a few years back) I vowed to never purposefully go down that path again.
Perhaps making this vow and knowing what/who I was looking for added to my biggest disappointment ever when the ONE guy I thought was for real… wasn’t. I DID end up putting all my hopes here, and it feels like he waited right until I “got there” because it was gradual and I thought I was making good, solid decisions.
I only truly and horribly obsess over BGE/FeS2. I do. I completely admit to that. And yes, you are correct that it’s all me right now. I am doing it by not accepting. I’m perpetuating staying there. I hate that I am this way. But, until last year, I have never had anxiety outside of what anyone would normally experience as temporary, situational etc. and had always been able to navigate and manage disappointment. This is partially how I recognize that how I am feeling now is NOT normal. I can’t compare it with anything else I’ve experienced. WTF happened to me?
So maybe part of my anxiety/ obsessing BEYOND BGE is more of OMG I am never going to meet anyone and I will forever be miserable and alone. Because that statement reflects my current status and thinking. I guess this thinking is a component/ derivative of my reaction to BGE crash and burn. I do think this and recognize it.
I understand what you’re saying, I think… that maybe I’m sticking with the “safeness” of BGE-related anxiety because it’s easier than facing the world and more disappointment. Did I get it right? But then I think, wow that’s crazy for me to be doing THAT because it’s the worst feeling ever. I am not terrified of the world, but I no longer trust like I did. My skeptic meter, which I’ve always had, is front and center, so I AM very guarded. Make sense? It’s so hard for me to figure myself out, so thank you for making me think. I know I have more work to do.
And “everyone” says he’s not special, just one guy. That is where I’m stuck and think maybe the guy I THOUGHT I knew is really him and the mean/alternate guy I saw I’m the end showed up just to get rid of me. When I say I never saw that side (that persona), never heard that tone of voice, and can’t believe the words that came from his mouth ALL OF A SUDDEN because he appeared to become a completely different person, I really mean it. Pure cognitive dissonance and I know it, but can’t put it to rest. I’ve never seen anything like it. Complete EU-turn and I’m still breathing in the dust.
Hi Say Something,
How is your weekend? Stay Strong. We can MOVE FORWARD. I know I will get past this. A brighter future is ahead for us. Turn every negative thought into a positive one. What we say and think is SO IMPORTANT. I wanted to share something I read with you.
One Key Point in the article:
Betrayal leaves us at a fork in the road. We can choose to act in ways that either favor or impede personal growth: we can become stuck in a bad moment forever or we can put it behind us for good. We decide our path.
You have been a success in all areas of your life. You survived a divorce YOU CAN get past this too. We have to believe this. I DO.
This week I missed an important dinner that I should have attended. I was MIA. I cant keep doing this. But let’s face it some days are TOUGH. There were other days I was fine. We all have our good and bad days. I am tired of this impacting my life and I am going to put it behind me. I read something positive everyday.
Another important point from the article to ponder:
If you obsess over something that happened in the past, you become stuck in that moment in time. But if you can think logically and understand the need to move forward, you can indeed master your emotions.
We have to master our emotions to move forward. The book by James Allen-As a Man Thinketh lays out that foundation of mastering your thoughts (I read a little of it almost everyday). Some mornings after this betrayal my first thought of the day before I get up is – I hate my life. This is not a great way to start a day. My thought could be I am healthy and I have the POWER to change things in my life that I don’t like. The only thing about my life that I don’t like is the PAIN I feel from the betrayal. LONELINESS. Everything else is fine just clouded be the betrayal from JUDAS. I have to expand my life and GET OUT.
FOUR KEY POINTS TO THINK ABOUT from the article:
2. Forgive. Forgiving does not mean accepting the wrong behavior of others; it means detaching from the pain, frustration, and bitterness buried within. Forgiveness breaks us free like a ship dislodging from a dock; life is our open sea when we pardon the past. But as long as we harbor hatred or anger against others, personal progress is stifled. Strive to forgive one person a day.
3. Throw betrayal away. I mean, literally throw it away! Try this exercise: write down on a piece of paper your worst case of betrayal. Capture the emotions, describe the terrible moment, and highlight the magnitude of the event. Get it out of your system, no matter how long ago it occurred. Then, fold this paper and get rid of it in a dramatic way. You can toss it in a dumpster, throw it into the ocean, even flush it down the toilet. I’m not encouraging you to litter the streets with letters of betrayal (or clog your bathroom), but I do want you to eliminate any traumatic traces by disposing of an object that holds your darkest emotions.
9. Envision a future free of betrayal. It’s okay to daydream. Being able to visualize an ideal future despite current drawbacks is one of the most beautiful elements of life. Imagine each day that no one will ever hurt you again. The images you create in your mind become projections of reality in the future, so be careful of the thoughts you send out into the universe. What you fear most, you most attract, and if you quiet your fears, you can control what you draw in. Instead, the peaceful, harmonious thoughts you choose to portray in your mind will manifest into your reality.
10. Control your emotions. Your emotions can be your best friend or your worst enemy. Emotions are the essence of our existence, but when they’re taken to the extreme, they can downright block our lives. We can easily become stuck in our feelings, mentally and even physically. When we’re depressed, we have trouble going about our daily routines or we overeat to try and steady our feelings. In order to heal from betrayal and keep it from reoccurring in the future, you have to keep your emotions in check. If you obsess over something that happened in the past, you become stuck in that moment in time. But if you can think logically and understand the need to move forward, you can indeed master your emotions.
One step at a time. Do something you enjoy doing this weekend. Change is possible.
HUGS,
MJ
To all that have posted to me, I just want to apologize for repeating myself/ obsessing. I don’t mean to dismiss anyone’s thoughts or ideas and sometimes it can be difficult to fully explain something in this forum. I really do appreciate what you all have to say. Today I am sad, but grateful for your support.
Hi Say Something,
Every night I read positive things. I was reading about acceptance and forgiveness tonight. I hope you got some rest tonight. Look at this nugget I found:
Sometimes others are very good at seeming to be caring and honest, and we can all get pulled into the illusion of caring and charm. Again, be very compassionate with yourself for not knowing.
Judas had me fooled. I have some days of being upset for not knowing and letting him trick me.
The article also said:
The deed is done and cannot be undone. No matter how much you blame the betrayer or yourself, it doesn’t change the fact that it happened. Acceptance of the truth, and of your helplessness over what happened, will help you heal much faster than holding onto anger, blame or rumination.
very short article (link below):
):
It is just going to take time to HEAL. What are you going to do this weekend? Get some sleep.
HUGS,
MJ
Sofia, MJ, Sukie,
You are all so smart and thoughtful. Sometimes I need harsh. I need reality. I need understanding. Suki is right that I have anxiety/ obsession over this guy. And it’s true, if he was the right one, he’d be here. He’s not. I wanted him to be. He didn’t. Logical.
I guess any previous obsessive thing I had in the past was not “serious” so I probably didn’t notice it. Now, it is inescapable. I always joke that I’m so NOT Type A, except for a couple things. I’ve been called patient, laid back, relaxed. And then my world changed. I changed. TLW, one year ago this weekend, has changed me in a way I could never have anticipated. I completely lost myself.
I WANT to see him as “just a guy” and not the BGE, because I know the BGE could not treat me like he did. Maybe part of staying online is because that’s how I met him. Idk. How is it so easy for him? Online.
The caring, attention, charm. The illusion. I look back and cannot understand how he mastered that so well. And I know I need to stop trying to figure it out. I don’t know what was in his head, but we always talked about so much, and never once did I detect any unhappiness whatsoever. I know I’m singing my same stupid story.
Sofia: ” The end result – they are done with us. And that’s it.”
Yes, he was done and I wasn’t. I even wrote those words to him “I’m not done. We’re not done!” Reality check.
I’m going to re-read what you all have written to me today. I value your perspectives, experiences, hope, and suggestions. I have never needed it like I do now.
I want to UNWANT him. I want to sleep through the night and wake up rested. I want to look forward to the day. I want to laugh again and feel good. I want to meet a real person who won’t lie and disappear. I want my life back.
Right now, I’m hoping to survive the next few days.
Say something,
I feel you so much, I hear all your words, and it’s like you are repeating things I say to myself.
‘I want to unwant him. I want to sleep through the night and wake up rested. I want to look forward to the day’…. I am in same shoes, but every day is a different day.
Some days I can’t believe I still miss him, I get upset with myself. I cry for him as I remember him as the ‘love of my life’ (which in my eyes he was)
Other days I don’t even like him, I remember all the words and actions that hurt me and I tell myself ‘Good riddance, you saved yourself from more heartache’. Still I cry but this time for myself, for having withstood so much pain.
Still there are days, when I cry just cause I remember hearing him cry on the phone to me this year, begging me back. I was crying too saying how…?
So in essence there are just so many days I still cry, and I don’t understand how it took him just a mere month of crying and he was ‘over’ me and happily paired off with a gf. I have been crying for 15 months…..
Do you sometimes think that it is impossible that we have so many tears? Shouldn’t it be finished by now?
I want to give you some hope – I need it in equal measures. I feel from your writing you are obsessing because you are in a depression? That is how I feel, I have decided to stop talking about him as much, and write more about him.
There is an exercise which is longer than the (3) unsent letters I have done so far.
It says you should journal/write letters every night for a minimum of 1h for 21-30 days consecutively. Each batch of letters (each week) should concentrate on a certain topic. Each letter can be up to 20 pages long. But there is no minimum pages to write, just minimum time. You have to write for an hour.
First week: write about your anger. Use profanity if you need to. But write it out in details for every word, action that upset you.
Second week: write about your hurt, the loss of dreams, the loss of love etc.
Third week: write about anything else that still weighing your mind, but the last letter you write could end with you saying ‘I forgive you for the past actions and I forgive you so I can forgive myself and let go’. Or something along those lines.
This is what I am going to be trying out from now. I think the unsent letters Nat recommends are not enough for me.
The website I read about this technique said if you still feel like talking to your ex, or about him after 21 days, then continue writing letters/journal every night until there are no more words….
I wish you strength for the next few days. 🙂
Thank you Kee,
“Do you sometimes think that it is impossible that we have so many tears? Shouldn’t it be finished by now?”
Yes, I think that. I also know that blaming myself for not feeling better on a made up time table adds to suffering. I know that I donut anyway.
Sometimes I start writing, and find I go back to the same things. I start out one way, and get sucked into the obsession part. Of course part of me also feels that it doesn’t matter what I write if I’m unable to match it with an action and belief to make a change. My albatross.
@Say Something, your online experience is very similar to mine and to all of my friends’ experiences. That is why I have chosen not to partake of the online “dating” scene for quite awhile. Like you say, you occasionally glimpse a little bit of gold, but the amount of shit you have to sift through to get to it (and then the gold turns out to be fool’s gold anyway — or at least gold you aren’t that interested in) doesn’t make it worth my time. There are so many other things I’d rather be doing and do do. Of course, this means I may not find someone as it doesn’t seem to happen out either (I should probably go to more Meetups but the few I went to were disappointing) but hey, I will get a lot other things done that I like to do. Life is about SO much more than a relationship & I think we women forget that sometimes — if not most of the time.
Anyway, just wanted to let you know you’re not alone, the online dating scene is baffling and nonsensical. Tho I will say I have disappeared on guys — because something in their emails has turned me off. Maybe I felt like I was pulling teeth to get answers about anything. Maybe they couldn’t spell. Maybe they suddenly called me “sweetie.” It could be anything. So I stop responding and perhaps they are sitting there wondering why just like I do when someone stops responding to me. Just because you start communicating w a total stranger doesn’t mean that either party has to continue.
Diane,
Thank you for corroborating my experience. I have some basic guidelines:
No talking to guys whose usernames have luv, hot, lonely, smooch, or anything similar in them.
If I tell you my name and you can’t remember- DONE
Using terms like hun, sweetheart, and other gag-like phrases makes me sick
If you are not close to my age, it isn’t a possibility. I’m not your MILF and I’m not your granddaughter’s friend
Guys who can’t form a sentence don’t make the cut
I DO LOOK FOR and CAN SEE if you are wearing a wedding ring in your photos
Can’t date a smoker
Blatant EU language will get no response from me, as will no photo
So basically, 90% of guys who show up in my search or who contact me are already ruled out based on what I wrote above
The guy 10 yrs older that I politely responded to once with a “no thanks” has sent me 3 follow-up msgs. They will go unanswered and I feel just fine about that decision.
Infantile antics.
Hi MJ,
I’ve been up for an hour drinking coffee. I ended up staying home last night, even though a friend had invited me out to see a local band. I was really just too worn down.
I started reading ‘The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship’ but it’s not impacting me like the other two NML books. Still, I will see what I can get from it. The NC book was a great dose of reinforcing reality.
Thanks for the James Allen reminder… I printed it out and forgot about it!
Did you purposefully skip out on the dinner? Is it something you would have attended together? I would’ve met you for a dinner- ditch drink and chat. Our lives are NOT what we thought they’d be and we have to adapt. Survive. Thrive. Are you painting?
Last week I received some compliments… hair, outfit… I’m not good at accepting compliments, but I smiled and just simply said ‘TY’. BGE would compliment me, and I wondered for the longest time if he was for real or just trying to work it. When I FINALLY started thinking ‘oh, he must really be sincere, because he’s consistent, and kind…’ over months, well, I guess I learned my lesson that it was all about making himself look and feel good. I could never feel good doing that to someone.
“One day things will be different. One day. I need someone to give me the date when this will all be OVER.”
Like Sofia says, it will happen. We will get sick of it. I wish my day was forever-ago. Sometimes I think my life is wasting away. Each day I’m not on the other side of grief feels like a day wasted. I’m going to cut back to alternate weeks with my therapist this summer. I don’t even know what I need. I’m so sad that I’ve reached one year since TLW. Wow, that’s 52 weekends. 52 weekends of being sad and lonely. 52 failures. Poker-faced 52 card betrayal. I haven’t thrown betrayal away, but I threw the sheets away and hopefully that’s a start.
Say Something,
52 weekends of being sad and lonely. I know we deserve better. No one walking this earth is really worth losing this kind of time over. When I have a really tough day I may occasionally wake up at 2 am and read. I am thankful that this experience has not robbed me of my sleep. Initially, when I found out I was up watching reruns of all kinds of silly sitcoms. The worse days of my LIFE. Now, you still cant sleep. I assure you he is not worth it.
Look at all the tragedies in the news. Life is short. We have to enjoy each day. I am not just saying this to you. I have to believe this as well. We don’t have an indefinite period of time of this planet.
52 weekends of being sad and lonely. WOW. Remember the story about the little caged bird. The door was open and he was free to fly away at anytime. We have to start over. The door is wide open.
@Suki- You made an excellent point today. You said you have to pull up your socks and start over. Thanks for making me laugh. My knee highs are down around my ankles and I don’t really know how to navigate starting over. For me I am afraid of starting over. I cultivated a long term relationship with someone. He proposed and I was at the end of the line preparing for a wedding. When I discovered his deception-I am back to square one. I ended that relationship. Suki as I read about all the heartbreak here at BR I just sit and think about starting over. It is like building your dream home and having it demolished before your eyes. Starting over with all these online horror stories to think about.
I will never do a profile online. That is a choice I have made. So, can you imagine what the process of finding a new mate is going to be like? It is daunting.
Thanks for sharing your insight Suki.
HUGS,
MJ
Good Morning MJ,
Yes I’m drinking coffee 🙂
I remember reading Maya Angelou’s book ‘I know why the caged bird sings’ which is what I think of with this bird not leaving the cage reference. I actually saw her speak in person a few years ago.
“There is no greater agony than bearing an untold story inside you.”. — Maya Angelou
I see such strength in you, that you were immediately able to cut him off. You don’t have that cognitive dissonance that I do. You accepted that his betrayal was a deal breaker. I have a stuckness way back. I was so convinced that he was the BGE that I can’t change that image, even though reality tells a different story. And because I still can’t un-BGE him, I have taken it all on myself and internalized it. He MUST be the BGE, because I have worked so hard on myself, and I would have known something was wrong if I’d worked hard enough. I didn’t see anything wrong. Because nothing could be “wrong” with him if he’s the BGE. That’s why I didn’t see it. Because there was nothing wrong to see. But he saw the flaw that is unloveable. The wrongness in me. This dealbreaker thing that cannot be worked out or discussed; that cannot be reconciled. Whatever it is was so extreme that I never saw him again.
I know I’m SUPPOSED to believe that HE had issues and it had nothing to do with me. I still can’t do it.
Hi Say Something,
I was driving home this morning when I heard of the passing of B.B. King on the radio. The station also played one of his well-known songs, I am not ashamed to say that I cried over the death of someone whose’s music I didn’t even know well. But the song was so beautiful that it stroke a cord with me. I hope that one day you experience the same calm that comes after one is over a painful experience. It made think of you and all the people here who opened their heart to love just to be discarded or/and mistreated.
I hope your weekend isn’t as painful as you fear it will be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXsusJ787sU
Thank you Truth,
The song is beautiful, and moving, and heavy with sadness. It made me cry. No worries, I heard the positive msg in there.
@say something; yes, and perhaps in waiting for the fog to lift you think its BGE thats causing it but it might be other things.
I am still obsessing over fake dating EUM that really wasn’t very nice to me. In some ways he was AC, hitting on other people around me, after giving me the ‘i’m not ready’, telling me how he couldnt ever be in love with me while continuing to pursue pursue pursue etc. I dont call him AC and he wasn’t BGE at all – I dont think of people in terms of BGE but also we didn’t get deep at all so there was not much there.
I am going through a LOT this year, a lot. Real stuff, not fake dating stupidity, real family stuff, job stuff etc, difficult things any single one of which is a cause for therapy. And I think obsessing over EU guy helps me to avoid the real things in my life. And sometimes, thats okay. The real things would cause me to keel over and EU guy just causes a vague buzz of anxiety.
So what does BGE cause you? Why are you obsessing? Are you avoiding some other, deeper grief in favor of this mild obsession? Are you grieving for your loss of confidence in yourself? Are you grieving the work one has to do to start over as a single person, pull your socks up and start living – and you’re avoiding that by still thinking about how he/the world did you wrong? (trust me i’m still doing this so i get it). And often this entire confection of anxiety is based on the belief that its real – sites like BR help you see that perhaps your anxiety is not real, its partly what you made, and that is a threatening thought we’d rather run from (its the only exercise i get).
Because you are NOT really grieving for him. You knew the man a few months, he’s a blip in your life. You’re grieving the deeper things that this loss is hinting at – most of which you are perhaps too afraid to fully confront and work through.
AND we must totally retire BGE from our vocabulary unless its prefixed by ‘I’m so silly I thought a real human could be BGE’. Everybody is flawed and if BGE is the same as ‘nicest guy ever’, my AC gas lighter manipulative ex was regularly called that.
Suki, exactly! I obsessed over previous guys and the most recent ex because I was running away from my real life, my real issues: the pain of abandonment and alcoholic mess of my childhood, unavailablity of my parents and relatives, my own alcohol addiction which I have battled and am free from, my loss of professional focus, loneliness, emptiness. I had been running away from all of these issues by focusing on unavailable people, clinging to them, controlling them, being miserable, people pleaser, doormat, anything to get validated and feel I am “loved,” promiscuous sex, inappropriate connections, obsessing and the cycle continued on and on until the last one finally broke the cycle. Not the he broke it but something inside me finally hit the last limit and I finally arose from the darkness and the internal misery of shame, hurt, and guilt I have been living all my life.
Another great book I found by John Bradshaw “On the Family.” Those who are from any kind of abusive families, alcoholic, sexual abuse, controlling, CHECK OUT THIS BOOK. I almost cried when reading. Lots of stuff I know already, but connecting the dots was overwhelmingly revealing. These past 16 months truly have been the best in my life so far. I feel I am resurfacing from some dark waters I had been submersed for years.
Say Something, very good point, look deeper into yourself. There has to be something that you are running away from. Past problems or current issues you don’t want to deal with.
Suki/Sofia
First, Suki, sorry for the typo on your name earlier. I am sorry you’re facing other issues (family, work). My job is grant funded, and each year it’s a wait and see game. Right now I’m waiting again.
I think about how I’ve handled other stress. The year I met BGE, my grandfather died, and then one of my animals. I cried more about my pet, strangely. And then while I was in the beginning, meeting stages with BGE, one of my kids was in a semi-horrible accident that involved inpatient hospitalization, multiple breaks and injuries, surgery, a wheelchair, rehab… Decent, (you’d not notice anything) but not 100% recovery, and I really realized how valuable life is. How lucky we are, because it could’ve been fatal based on what happened.
Anyhow, when this accident happened, I knew I had to focus, and gave up all connections with people online. Except him. He was different. And he seemed to be the one positive after so much negative, all which I WAS able to manage and successfully deal with. But how wonderful to finally have good news! Three stressful, serious things in less than a year were rough and draining.
I felt confident, and in control of myself. I had to good at balancing work, my activities, family, accident recovery, and finding time for getting to know this new guy. Anyhow, I go back and read what I’ve posted and think, DAMN! The picture people must paint of me based on what I’m writing cannot be good.
Anyhow, you asked (and good questions, thank you):
“So what does BGE cause you? Why are you obsessing? Are you avoiding some other, deeper grief in favor of this mild obsession? Are you grieving for your loss of confidence in yourself? Are you grieving the work one has to do to start over as a single person, pull your socks up and start living – and you’re avoiding that by still thinking about how he/the world did you wrong?”
I think the obsession IS about him. I had a friend suggest that there are layers. But the layers are about him. To start… BGE as the person that I fell for. I miss HIM, or as it’s proper to say here- the person he showed himself to be. Until he wasn’t. I am grieving the loss of the future I thought we had, everything that he suddenly withdrew, the happiness I felt with him, the sex, the conversations, the fun, the quiet times, the laughter, all of it. And yes, then in layers comes the thought of starting all over and fear that “that was it forever” because I had never felt so ‘right, good, connected, compatible, attached, cared for, appreciated’ EVER. I have never grieved like this EVER. I have never missed someone like this EVER. I have never had anxiety like this EVER. I didn’t really “understand” anxiety and addiction until going through this. I didn’t even know what I was feeling at first.
I didn’t suffer abuse growing up (just an EU/well-meaning but controlling mother) or alcoholism in my family. I am not an alcoholic nor was I married to one. No gambling, porn, or drug addictions. I remember some anxiety in dating with the guy I eventually married. That’s really the only (more than normal) anxiety I can trace, and it’s around relationships and trust. When my first “love” at 15 broke up with me, I had some sadness and anxiety. I think normal teenage stuff. I confided in my friend for support. She then started secretly dating him. I remember feeling humiliated and betrayed. Idk ladies, I wish I could put my finger on it.
Sofia, I do feel lonely. Lonely like never before because I compare with how happy I was. On paper, my life looks pretty good. But I don’t want to live off a paper. I’m sitting alone again on a Saturday night. Last night was the same. My friends are busy with their spouses and families. My kids are all out with their friends. I’m bored from all my “alone” escapades. I should clarify, I have never minded some alone time, in fact I’ve often welcomed it. But what I really want is someone regularly by my side to talk with, laugh with, share with, wake up next to. And that’s where I feel the loss. And then I feel selfish for even wanting that.
Say Something, Sofia, Suki
Could it be that it is a form of ‘trauma’?
I often look at my own experience and think of it as a trauma (repeated over several years).
Trauma is not just an ordinary heartbreak/ache that you can just get over.
I have had bfs before my ex-husband who either I broke up with or they broke up with me and it took me around a month or so to get over them. I guess not as traumatic as the ending of my marriage (even though two of my bfs were longer term).
I read Catherine Woodiwiss ‘ A new normal: Ten things I have learned about Trauma’.
It resonated a lot with how I feel.
I also have not suffered abuse or neglect in childhood. I have had a pretty average lower middle class upbringing and I have always been a doer/go getter. Now following this enormous heartbreak, the grief and depression I am experiencing feels like it is based on a ‘trauma’, not just a break-up.
This might resonate with you too:
http://awelltraveledwoman.tumblr.com/page/11
@Say,Suki,Sofia
Thank you P I A T,
I’ve started clicking around!
Say Something, MJ, kee,
I have read your ongoing posts here and previous ones and I am quite saddened by your pain and hurt.
I have been were you have been, particular with one guy I dated for a year but also with my ex-spouse. It is terrifying to find out something about a person that has so much impact on you, it really changed my world and I had a nervous breakdown at the time (he did not cheat with another woman but he betrayed my trust in such a horrible,sick, in-humane way that it imploded our marriage)and that after 12years together!!!
What you have to do is face reality, really taking in what is there and what the person has done to you, so you can have your emotional appropriate responses in private to work through this and be able to get past it and move on! You are still so extremely over committed to someone who showed you that there are not worth your time, thoughts and feelings. Why do you keep investing in that place of pain?
What drove me was the sense that I did not wanted to be defined by his behavior (the hurt, the pain) because it is such a negative place to be and I have always been optimistic and enjoyed life. And at this point in my 40s, I have no time to waste, as there are so many things I want to do and goals I have for myself.
Natalie wrote somewhere that has become my motto: “There is no point in going on about anything that you are not experiencing the positive results of”! A lot of people thought my ex was the greatest ever (he did too) but who cares if he behaves shitty behind closed doors, only YOU know your experience, only YOU know how that made you feel. Forget about others including him, the one that hurt you so much…it won’t make a difference if you think more about their behavior, they are who they are and that doesn’t work for you. Period. So you are done. There is nothing to look for. To understand. The message is bright and clear. Accept the message spoken or unspoken and accept the actions and give them the true meaning they have for YOU! If you tell yourself over and over again how horrible it was and then don’t allow yourself to feel appropriately angry you are repressing and you are trying to control the uncontrollable. It will literally drive you insane. I know you are all looking for a solution outside you, but this is all within you, and the process starts the moment you really want to let go of the person and the pain they have caused you! Only you can dig yourself out.
Read about Natalies posts on a) how we want to have a return on our emotional investment
b) how we want to be the exception of the rule
c) how we lose ourselves with extreme people pleasing
d) how we are trying to control the uncontrollable (other peoples behaviors)
I strongly believe that we can heal through loving and caring relationships, especially from trusted friends and I am in process of building one with a man again. It takes time and I am guided by reciprocity and honesty and so far so good.
Hugs
Unfolding
@ Unfolding
(MJ, Kee, Sofia, Suki, Selkie)
” Forget about others including him, the one that hurt you so much…it won’t make a difference if you think more about their behavior, they are who they are and that doesn’t work for you. Period. So you are done. There is nothing to look for. To understand. The message is bright and clear. Accept the message spoken or unspoken and accept the actions and give them the true meaning they have for YOU!”
You are right. Thank you for the reinforcement.
@ Kee,
Yes, I think specifically it’s “intimate betrayal trauma”.
http://www.theneurotypical.com/posttraumatic_relationship_syndrome.html
“Hence, trauma in this type of relationship, sometimes referred to as attachment trauma is particularly likely to create trust issues.
Not only does attachment trauma bring up issues regarding trust of others, but it also raises issues of trust of one’s self by calling into question one’s judgement of character. How one’s view of others could be so erroneous becomes a puzzle, and if one’s assessment of character was so wrong in the case of the perpetrator, how does one know that the assessment of the character of others in one’s social world is accurate?”
Hi Unfolding
(@Say something, Sofia, Suki et.al)
Thank you for your words.
Yes, I think LOGICALLY I am super aware of every word you wrote.
How to internalise this logic, so that I am not consumed by pain or thoughts (or painful memories/nightmare) is another issue.
There was a point in time I actaully considered if I had made the ‘wrong’ choice not to go back to my ex-EUM for the 3rd time, seeing he was begging and crying on the phone (although I was also crying).
But now I am past that ‘doubt’. Everyone I have talked to (and I haven’t even divulged the amount of what I now KNOW is verbal abuse) have told me I am better off without him. Someone like that needs more than just ‘deep thinking time’ to change and if they really had changed there would be more action than just repeated phonecalls telling me how they can’t believe we are not going to be together forever…. They would agree to want to be standing on their own 2 feet (he is so broke remember) and then invite me to ‘date’ him again not engaged/re-marry straight away as if the past can just be erased like that.
Nowadays, I have accepted our divorce, the pain is knowing that I PUT UP with his BS for so long. And that I allowed him to talk to me and convince me that he is the ONLY one for me…..
I think it as you say (and I have read Natalie’s posts as suggested):
A big problem is wanting to know WHY this investment of mine turned so sour? And why I even Invested in the first place??
But I am trying to stop the WHY Q, and do more HOW Q. How can I feel these feelings and still get through the day and night? That is what I am trying to do.
I think, and I have a small ray of hope, that as I continue NC and I continue to ask the HOW Q then I will one day as you say, stop being bombarded by all these painful memories.
Many thanks for your honest and true words.
@Say Something
Yes I do feel like its a PSTD (relationship form). I am taking melatonin at night time to fall asleep and try visualise a good night sleep without nightmares — and I have almost all the symptoms that the article described.
I am active with some Meet Up groups and have had better luck meeting decent guys at their social events. A few friends have met nice people online dating and are now married. So, I think it can work, but it’s more like a lottery situation. You just never know what your going to get and timing is everything. I agree that most guys online are looking for fun and hookups and also carrying a lot of baggage. Amber and Red Flags everywhere. The last time I checked, the same guys were trolling online from 2+ years ago. So, it makes me wonder if they are using it only as a venue to get some attention. Girls are also doing the casual thing and that makes it more of a challenge for those of us who are serious minded. When I was on Match a few years ago I was very naïve and that’s how I wound up getting hooked to the exAC Narc. I now know that online dating is to be used only as another dating option and nothing to take too seriously and to keep my sense of humor. Guys in my age group who still look good want a younger girl to be a trophy. The much younger guys who approach are looking for a hand out/nanny. I overheard this girl at the gym say that she was on Match for many years and finally shut it down because it was a constant disappointment. She said she decided to hand it over to the universe. And within a year she met a great guy at the gym and they are engaged. So, maybe there’s some merit to her decision.
I think there’s something to it when they have to show up. For MeetUp stuff, sure you will get people who are there to hook up/get attention – but I think you can feel it when someone is there because they’re genuinely interested in what’s going on and would be having a good time at the MeetUp regardless. Online stuff is just so lazy.
I love doing improv comedy and I’ve met some wonderful friends through MeetUps. When everyone is there because they *want* to be there and they made the effort to show up, it means it’s a priority… which means they make an effort… which means no guessing games if they ask you to spend time/hang out… and so on. Whether it’s romantic or not, I’ve had a great time at MeetUps simply because everyone has to physically BE there and that means it was important enough to spend time and attention on it. It seems like a built-in weeding process to get (most of) the lazy EUs out of the mix, right from the start, just because of THAT!
Michelle,
I agree that on-line they seem to be lazy and also appear to be watching over your shoulder to see if ‘something better’ may be on the horizon. That’s been my experience with on-line dating. In fact I have soooooo many stories that if we ever run out of things to talk about……
But for me, I was living in fantasy land with it – thinking I had struck gold and making crumbs (or, actually dust) into a golden loaf with the tiny bit of future faking he did and me running ahead of myself. Boy, have I ever crashed and burned from it. I have to see it as an epiphany relationshit now and learn all the lessons that this is giving me with the help of BR and all your comments too.
On the plus side I have started a new art course, been accepted as a volunteer for a brain injury rehab centre and joined the gym – so onwards and upwards.
He’s still on-line. Re-inventing his profile every 3-4 weeks (literally pressing ‘re-set’!) with a profile that talks about being genuine and wanting a full-time relationship and sharing a great future together when really he just wants FWB with as many women as he can get. I now have no words left to describe him and his antics. But that’s a good thing – right?
I am hoping to grow into a well-rounded, 53 year old ‘catch’ for someone in real life. And he can go on being a 50 year old teenager. I just hope that his daughter learns about him and not from him.
Best wishes to everyone.
Bellakins xxx
This article was me – to a TEE!
I went through a horrendous break-up at 28 and decided that online dating was my last resort. I was so thirsty and afraid of turning 30 whilst still single (silly me), that I signed up to POF, Tinder, Match, Afro Romance and e-Harmony. I figured the more sites I was on, the better my chances of meeting Mr Right, right? WRONG!
I opened myself to some of the worst dating experiences imaginable! One guy actually made me cry on our first date (he was very defensive/argumentative/criticial of everything I said and loved to bash his babymama), but stupidly I went on another date after he apologised – the same thing happened. By the 3rd date I’d had enough of being told about myself by someone who clearly considered himself an expert on everything, so I tossed my glass of wine over his head, called him a condescending arsehole with a small prick and told him to f**k off – then walked out of the restaurant. Not my finest moment, but as desperate as I was to meet someone then, I still had boundaries.
I dated another guy for a couple months – well, I say ‘dated’ loosely because he was a self-employed businessman and rarely had the time to meet me, so I would sit around and wait for him to contact me and arrange something (usually very last minute and he would always arrive late). He left to go to Africa on business for a month and I never heard from him again. He contacts me a few months later out of the blue asking if I’m free. I said no, as I was seeing someone else. He rings again a month later (still seeing that same guy), so I tell him that for someone who used to talk so BIG about having a wife and kids (he was 36), he didn’t seem to have much time to invest in that area of his life. He swiftly replied that I was impatient and expected too much from him! He had made a tonne of money on his trip to Africa and the weekend that he called me, he went out and spent loads of his money partying with his friends – and I could’ve been there but I said no. Needless to say, I told him that I couldn’t be bought with money or token gestures, and that I valued time and communication more, before bidding him farewell and ending the call.
I endured 2 years of neverending disappointments on these dating sites, until I decided to give up a few months before my 31st birthday. It wasn’t working out for me, and I had to accept that I’d be alone for now (possibly forever) and stop putting so much time/effort/pressure on myself to meet a man. After a 3 month break, I ventured back online with little/no expectations whatsoever, and funnily enough, that’s when I met my current partner. I was so convinced he’d be a lost cause like all the others, that I never took him seriously during the first 2-3 months of dating. I was very nonchalant and would tell myself that he’s too good to be true so brace yourself for the inevitable fallout. It took a long time to convince me otherwise, and so far everything has been great. The real test is seeing whether our relationship can survive a 6 month hiatus whilst he’s serving in Afghanistan.
The point of this long-arsed message was to say that online dating can be effective if you don’t treat it like it’s life and death. And don’t make the same mistake I did by giving out the cookie early then realising afterwards what a dick the guy is… This further compounds any feelings of despair, loneliness and disappointment you might be feeling at the time. When it stops being fun, it’s time to logoff.
Hi Lupie,
I get what you said about dating and turning 30 after a failed relationship. The pressure was intense both internal and external. It nearly destroyed me. Now, I am almost 40 years, I truly don’t care anymore about finding a mate. I am open to it but it’s no longer essential. I have plenty of love in my life, starting with the one that lives within me. Today I heard this line from a song that will become my mantra. It goes like this, “life is a journey,…there’s no need to rush it.”
Excellent post. Since the school year is over, I now have the annual three month window to meet someone before the door slams shut in August. Since there really is no local pool of suitable single men regionally, my only choices are the local running races and on line. Over the years I have spend many hundreds of dollars plus used free sites and this is what I have seen:
Cherry is right; there’s a huge number of older dudes wanting 20 year olds that resemble models. Good luck with that.
A good many guys go on about their travel, going to plays, outings, concerts yet they state an income level far too low to sustain this sort of lifestyle.
High end guys in the more progressive cities have plenty of options in their hometowns. Unfortunately, if they’re willing to drive to my mountain town, it often means they have severe issues.
I am assuming it is a characteristic of Western culture, but far more dudes, on line and IRL will flirt, promise you good times, future fake while they in reality have a gf already. I hate this.
Any manifestations of redneck/gun luvvin culture is a sign to run away fast.
Lots of older guys lie about their health, portraying themselves as far more active than they actually are. A tad scary as I live at 10k feet which is not a good environment for the out of shape.
Despite the bad aspects of on line; I’ve also connected with dudes all over the world and there are a good many guys out there living more sustainable lives due to my advice on soils/gardening/building techniques. I have been able to discuss topics ranging from chicken keeping to the more esoteric aspects of quantum mechanics. In short, on line can take years of time and money to meet someone who shares tour values; your Spidey senses need to be on high alert, and you cannot take anyone too seriously until they prove by their actions that they’re serious.
Dear Natalie,
Oh how I wish I could have read this piece of yours 2 years ago…
That is exactly how it happened. I broke up with a boyfriend of 1 year and had this strong feeling of soon meeting my soul mate. I went online and made the third guy I went on a date with my boyfriend. Oh, how I tried to fit him into the mold of my soul mate. Mind you this was someone who never had a girlfriend before(virgin at 36!), and as I came to find out, was compensating for the lack of girlfriend by watching lots and lots of porn. He is so stuck in his ways that I don’t think he can even begin to change them in this lifetime! Yet I was determined to have my soul mate because *I was ready*.
I don’t have to tell you how that “love story” ended. Luckily it did. After that I made several attempts to find my soul mate again and now I’m slowly coming to a realization that I keep deluding myself over and over again because I somehow feel entitled. So I finally stopped projecting on every guy I meet. Instead I try to observe him as much as I can and project as little as possible. Thank you again for being my guide in this journey!
True – especially the last paragraph resonated with me. I’ve actually been reluctant to use the dating site I’m a member of because deep down I’ve known I’m not in the right frame of mind. Thank you for expressing what I couldn’t put my finger on.
Ed
The fact that you are aware that you’re not in a frame of mind to do the on line thing puts you heads and shoulders above a good many of those that are on line.
Hey, awesome post – it may have been an uncomfortable nudge to look at ourselves, our own expectations when we utilize today’s technology.
A long time ago, I tried a site called Lavalife, and had the horrible expectation that I would meet a Keanu Reeves clone who would fall madly in love with me after reading my clever profile and lovely photographs. I learned from that. I got over 200 responses day one, and 95% were sex related, and some even kindly sent photos of their favorite body part they had in order to impress me, hahaha! Of course I crashed and got burned in the usual manner, and wisely decided to leave the site.
Over the years I learned about myself. I stopped expecting so much from the opposite sex; I took a damn good look at myself and realized I was looking for fulfillment outside of myself, when actually…I had to learn to love myself again, and allow myself to be fulfilled with MY life, not someone else’s life.
I had a great marriage for 17 years until a drinking/driving car accident took my spouse away. I started over last year after my grief subsided after 3 years. I tried 2 dating sites. #1 – I had the same experience as before on Lavalife. I got off pretty quickly. The second one was an international site, and I advertised I wanted friends. I did get some inappropriates, but actually it has worked well. I think the biggest difference was *I* changed my outlook, and my profile language reflects that.
I really like what Natalie has to say in this article. It was a good push on my psyche to NOT expect a good prince in a cyber world where no one is what they advertise themselves to be; it’s kind of like that dreadful scene in Labyrinth, where the girl is searching for someone in a masquerade ball, and everyone’s wearing a mask…even the Prince of Demons, Jareth…
Irisbloom,
I am so sorry you lost your husband that had to be tough. I applaud you on starting over after taking time to grieve. I love this powerful statement you made:
“… I learned about myself. I stopped expecting so much from the opposite sex; I took a damn good look at myself and realized I was looking for fulfillment outside of myself, when actually…I had to learn to love myself again, and allow myself to be fulfilled with MY life, not someone else’s life.”
I am starting over after a broken engagement. Thank you for reinforcing what I know. As I sit here trying to figure out what is next-I will not seek fulfillment outside of myself.
I do want a partner, but I will make sure my expectations are realistic. I want to share the great life I have with someone else. Thanks for your humor about online dating. I am going to try to be social and meet someone on my own. I cannot take another round of FAKE so I will not be doing the online dating. I am sure it will be tougher, but I willing to give it a try. Looking for a beau on my own is probably equivalent to someone going office to office to look for a new job. I believe that I can meet someone. Best wishes with dating to you. If you have some good news let us know.
MJ
I am sorry about your late husband Irisbloom.
here’s how one woman found success with online dating 🙂
Amy Webb: how I hacked online dating
http://youtu.be/d6wG_sAdP0U
Thanks so much for this! How do you know what we are thinking???? I have just finished No Contact and it is truly one of the most important books I have ever read. Excellent content and excellent writing. I loved it and have recommended it to a friend already. Thank you Natalie!
This post is so timely! I just signed up to a dating site (not free). I still need to upload my picture. I have joined sites years ago, I wasn’t ready. I was seeking attention, lonely, etc. I have a much different mindset now. I’m just starting to get out and socialize as well, so I’m not just relying on meeting men via dating site. And, I don’t really care. There’s no time limit for me, and I’m secure enough to know better and that it’s about what I need and deserve. And the qualities I’m looking for, not for attention or that I’m lonely. I’m equipped to handle this… 🙂
Say Something,
You may think this is strange but watch American Greed. Maybe you have seen the show. The people they profile are some of the biggest con artists walking the earth. I want you to see the levels of deception people are willing to go to. They are so good with their con game that they are trusted and in some cases named as a child’s God parent (yet they are stealing the child’s future by robbing the parents). They build TRUST with the people they con and then they take almost every penny they have. Deception. They even steal from their family and close friends. In some cases they bankrupt them. It is bad enough they pull strangers into their con games, but they are so manipulating (liars) they suck FAMILY into their games. The stories are heartbreaking. I look at them and realize that some people just have dark souls and will do what they have to -just to obtain what they WANT.
One thing that is common across all the profiles of the thieves-people who are conned are in shock about who the con REALLY IS. Master manipulators. Say Something you never really knew that ass.
In some cases the con men profiled on this show leave family members flat broke. The people don’t even have money to make house repairs or take care of basic living expenses. The people they steal from are I shock claiming they cant believe someone they trusted could do this to them. The con takes their money and lives a lavish lifestyle. The only person they are concerned with is SELF. I have seen people who have lost EVERYTHING their life savings, their home, trust and they START OVER. Personally, I use these people as an example of how I can start over. I lost trust, love, TIME, money, and most importantly I LOST MYSELF with the betrayal. His lies destroyed the quality of my life. I invested years of my life into loving this man because we were building a future together. Once I caught him I never got an apology. DISRESPECT. We were engaged and spent YEARS together. Not one word. When I caught him cheating I was DONE WITH HIS ASS. No door was left open for him to come back with foolishness.
Your ex at least told you it was over and later told you he was seeing someone. That is all I would need to MOVE ON. Now, I am dealing with hurt, rejection (from lies) and loneliness. Most people facing something this tough have family and friends to rally around them. I don’t I am surviving this alone (BR, massages, lots of spa treatments and reading are my support tools). Not one real person on earth is holding my hand thru this. I regret not investing more into friendships I had. My focus was on my future husband. Regrets-sure but I cant focus on that NOW. My energy is on rebuilding ME.
I have seen people LOSE it all and they let go of the anger. They have been devastated and still show empathy when the person who stole their money commits suicide. The human spirit can bounce back from some awful things. I say to myself -MJ you can survive this. I WILL SURVIVE THIS. I am just hurting now but each day I am getting stronger. I just need to master my own thoughts and emotions. I need to work on my thoughts like I work on my core daily. Right now this is a process.
Work daily on how you can stop idealizing him. I know it is hard but look at him for who he really is. If you have to write little sticky notes about the crap he pulled or said. Post them. Don’t focus on the good you saw during the honeymoon phase of the relationship. You see I have no emotions tied to him-focus on the ASS who slept with you and was already seeing the lady he is with NOW. He had no problem letting you lay in bed and cry. Did he have any concern for you when you cried? Look at his cold words that he uttered to you at the end -that is who he really is. The mind is very powerful. You have to reprogram the story you are telling yourself.(I lost the BGE who is walking the planet-No an average everyday lying ass is gone and can do no more harm).
I am not going to let JUDAS destroy me. I bet every woman on here would tell me he is just an ass####. I had him on a pedestal. Not anymore. I see a cold hearted liar. He saw the excitement in my eyes the day I got dressed to go to my fitting. That morning he took me to the spa. I got all pretty for my fitting. He knew how much money and time I invested in everything. He didn’t give a damn. He had to know his lies would eventually hurt me. He put his wants first. He is a liar and a cheat. Rehashing all this old crap is just no good for my soul. It hurts. I see him for who he is. Now, I have some choices to make everyday. I am going to fight to get my life back. I can’t tell you how I am going to do it (or when it will all stop hurting) but I am going to give it everything I have. Nobody can do this for us. We have to move on and it is a choice. I read about acceptance daily. Important question to ask yourself- Are you going to spend another year devoted to thinking of him daily while he is out there loving someone else? You are losing sleep and this fool is out there riding that motorcycle around like he is king of the hill. Judas is humping everything he can get his claws on. Gotta rebuild. My focus is on ME.
Do something good for yourself today.
HUGS,
MJ
MJ, thank you for the information about American Greed.
I started watching it and it helps me to see that there are some people who don’t care about anybody and even themselves when they are trying to get what they want.
It has been almost 6 months I ended a relationship with the guy I had met online almost two years ago. He was lying to me about him being single, giving all kind of promises about our future. I always had been a little cautious about his actions, but I wanted to see only good in him. I found out he was married, when he sent me a picture of himself blowing a kiss with his left hand and the wedding ring on his finger. When I told him about it, he started texting me that I was wrong, it was a college ring and BS why he didn’t wear it before. I stopped talking to him, went NO CONTACT. He never said he was sorry that I found out about his lies, he just disappeared. But after all why would he say anything to me, I was nobody, just a toy, if he didn’t even care about his wife’s feelings.
I still can’t believe that some people can lie like this. His poor wife, I feel so bad for her.
Anyway, thank you.
Hi Surprised,
I am sure you are glad that you found out what this con man was up to and you cut him off. But I m sure it hurts because you think people would have more respect. But this guy does not even have respect for his bride. I don’t think people like this ever think they do anything wrong. It all comes down to what they want.
He is out there doing the same thing to someone else. Hopefully they find out before he does too much damage.
MJ
MJ, thank you again.
I am hurt, and I am trying to understand what and why it happened to me. But watching American Greed helped to see that there are some people in this world who just DO NOT have the ability to see what would be right and wrong to do, almost like the part of the brain which is responsible for it is missing – sociopaths. I feel hurt and stupid, but it will pass, just not fast enough.
I hope you are doing better.
Big HUGS to you and all the women on BR.
Surprised
I love this new kick ass attitude MJ!
Hi truthinclarity,
I so appreciate your encouraging words.
MJ
Hello All,
Can anyone tell me what this passage is actually saying. This line is what I was really trying to understand.
“Saying to the most precious part of me that she is flawed, wrong, dark and responsible for all that goes wrong under the sun. Then giving her a to do list that she must do in order to be loved and accepted was truly heartbreaking.”
Is this an example of a person not accepting who they are is loveable? So, they make out a long list of what has to be done so they can at least be loved?
Pulled from this article:
Some of passage:
I clearly in the moment had to disconnect from my Essence. I had to. Saying to the most precious part of me that she is flawed, wrong, dark and responsible for all that goes wrong under the sun. Then giving her a to do list that she must do in order to be loved and accepted was truly heartbreaking.There was no other choice. Either I would die or lose sanity. The to do list was meant to provide safety. If I do everything it would spare me the pain. No matter how many things from the list I did, the list grew longer and longer, and did not save me from getting hurt.
The pain of seeing all this was enormous. I held the part of me that was hurting. I was kind and gentle as I could be. I let her talk, and validated her feelings. I did not rush her, or try to minimize the incident. I simply let it out and experienced the pain that was suppressed for a long time. Then I offered the pain to God, and asked for peace and acceptance. Although exhausted I could feel deep peace around myself. And love coming from my Guide, and my father’s spirit.
Thanks.
MJ
Mary Jane, I read some articles from Inner Bonding. To my understanding this is an inner talk to your own self. An injured hurt child, an inner you who has not grown up. You play a role of an adult and talk to your inner child. You recognize how hurt the child is and you teach her to get on the right path with compassion, patience, and self-love all the way. This is the adult growing up from a child. I read a similar concept in a book about abandonment. It seems like a “crazy” talk to your inner self, but it’s not. I haven’t gone through all the steps that book recommends, but I see the point. You are finally honestly seeing that you are this broken, abandoned child. Now you need to raise her up, love her, nourish, so she can rise and finally connect to the higher being, the Holy Spirit, our God. It’s all the connection and interconnection the Inner Bonding talks about. I read several articles after you had posted the first one couple days ago. Healing.
On a similar note, read or reread the Parable of the Prodigal Son. It is the child coming back to the final and the only source of loving and healing source.
This passage is not about external love and acceptance. It’s the internal healing and acceptance. My interpretation and understanding. Thanks for sharing.
Sofia,
THANK YOU. I want to thank you for being so open and sharing. Your life is really a testimony that can help other people understand so much about life.
I realize I have never met you. I am proud of all you have overcome. As I read your post above I was just amazed. You should be so PROUD of yourself you have weathered some storms.
You are such a sweetie. You have helped out so many people by sharing your story and providing feedback. I appreciate you helping me and Say Something.
I am going to read that Parable today. I sent you the name of book the other day. I don’t know if you saw it. It is called Achieve Anything In Just One Year by Jason Harvey. Look it up and see if you like what it is about.
Thanks for breaking that passage down so that I understand it. You are going to be more than fine. I want the level of peace you have. I am working for it daily.
Thank you for your virtual support.
@ Say Something- Are you doing ok this weekend?
Hugs,
MJ
MJ,
Here is my take:
“Saying to the most precious part of me that she is flawed, wrong, dark and responsible for all that goes wrong under the sun. Then giving her a to do list that she must do in order to be loved and accepted was truly heartbreaking.”
I relate because I have felt, that deep down, like soul-deep, that I must be so fundamentally flawed. I can’t find and maintain the right relationship because I am a repellant. It must be true, yet I can’t see it. And I don’t know what “it” exactly is. But something. So not everything under the sun, but surrounding my relationship failure, yes. So if I work hard ENOUGH, then maybe I can change this wrong thing about myself. Maybe it will be a chain- reaction. So when I met BGE, I thought I’d finally done the work. I found, in him, the most wonderful qualities, and OMG, he actually likes me. I can breathe. And live. And stop searching and trying to over-improve and just maintain and be happy. But it wasn’t good enough. I wasn’t good enough.
So I complied another mental “to do list” hoping that maybe by improving myself even more, tjis work would cover the invisible flaw; camouflage the flaw; eliminate the flaw. The flaw of being unloveable, incompatible, and wrong. My friends don’t have this flaw. It’s specific to me and they can’t understand.
Lose 10 pounds or 15 or 20
Work out more, tone up
Strive for a six pack
Run more, force myself to like it
Read more
Learn everything about being a better person
Believe that I’m a good person
Look in the mirror and assess
Read, read, read
Cry
Stop crying
Make Dr. appointments
Speak kind words
Smile when it hurts
Say what I mean
Say nothing, just listen
Learn about manipulators
Stay away from what hurts
Tell a joke
Be as polite as possible
Be outside more
Stay off Facebook
Send more cards in the mail
Write unsent letters
Clean my house
Save more money
Leave generous tips
Buy more local
Cut more coupons
Go to movies alone
Go to dinner alone
Go to sporting events alone
Attend a wedding alone
Walk alone
Walk longer
Think of more to do alone
Pretend to like alone
Go out with friends
Talk to new people
Stop watching tv
Walk my dog more
Change my online profile
Stop talking to people online
Take a course
Get that promotion
Don’t date anyone
Try to date again
Fill out more info on linkedin
Network more
Ask friends what is wrong with me
Paint my house
Find a therapist
Pull weeds
Cut my lawn
Stay busy
Feel the wind
Listen to the birds
Really taste that coffee
Look how beautiful the world is
Appreciate what I have
Don’t rely on others
I’ve gone through my list and realize that doing these things can’t changed who I am. What is reality? I’m a size 6/8. But not a 2/4z. I’m athletic. I’m probably in better shape than most guys my age. I could lose 10 lbs and look better, but so could most people. I’ve been called beautiful, cute, fabulous, hot, sexy, pretty, smart, thoughtful, fun, resourceful, kind, considerate, compassionate. None of that matters if I don’t believe it. I finally decided to believe someone, yes external validation. Thought: If he really believes these things, maybe I AM ok. Maybe there really IS someone who appreciates me and doesn’t notice the flaws. I’ve done the hard work.
Because I really, really tried my best. I always asked his opinion. I was kind, and warm, and generous, and caring. I was not critical, demanding, lazy, or selfish. And it didn’t matter. So I have grappled with the idea that IT will never go away because in essence IT IS ME. I spent over 2 years not dating; nothing except stabilizing my life, finding peace, and gathering strength. Every single one of my friends that has gone through a divorce has successfully remarried. All my other friends are married. Each and every single one. I can’t even find a guy who likes me. And I only wanted one. Just one. And he bailed.
So I remain heartbroken like it’s my punishment for having this flaw. For believing that I had done ENOUGH work. Believing that I could have the life I wanted. And failing at the list. The crazy list that doesn’t matter. The list I made up, hoping it would be my remedy. I tried to cover physical, emotional, social. The list is flawed. And I’m tired. There no longer is a “precious part” of me. Maybe that’s my flaw.
Hi Say Something,
I have been out here wondering how you made it thru the weekend. I am sure you are fine. I think you are really hard on yourself. I am the same way with myself so it is easy to recognize. I like your list. You have set goals and planned out things to do. I think we should both do this so that we have better weekends.
I think when something like this (rejection-breakup) happens it makes you question everything about yourself. No one is perfect, but it sounds to me that you are being really critical of yourself when you say you are FLAWED. You met a liar who has turned your life upside down. It sounds like you take really good care of yourself. Don’t stop doing that. Find a way to get some sleep.
I wish I had a magic pill for letting go, but I don’t. I have said this to you many times. This experience has had an impact of the quality of my life. Some days I am not even focused on things I need to take care of. I am focused on the PAIN this has brought me.
I try to think back to days before him when things were so much better. I was not in this kind of PAIN. I have been painting and trying to relax. Next week, I am going to focus on pilates classes and racket ball (really good for working out frustration). frustration from not moving on faster and just other day to day stuff I deal with.
Do you ever feel like you lose focus on doing things that are important because you are dealing with the PAIN from this experience?
One day last week I really took note of how I came home and went to bed. This is not good. I think this a sign of depression. I am healthy there is no reason to be in bed stressing out like this (over a liar and cheat).
I think I am reaching the point of exhaustion that Sofia mentioned. At least for today. I hope your weekend wasn’t brutal.
HUGS,
MJ
Hello MJ,
This wknd has been rough, especially today. I’m so tired. Constantly tired. My thoughts are all over the place so Got some good activity in today. I’m going to shower and read. Thank you for thinking of me. I’m happy you don’t need to be online. Good choice.
Say Something,
You need sleep. You made it thru the weekend. I hope you can start to plan out some fun weekends. You deserve that.
HUGS,
MJ
Say Something,
By the time you read this it will be Sunday. How has your weekend been? Are you going to have coffee today?
This is what we have to do:
Start Imagining a New Life: Even though you are experiencing immense grief start to imagine and invent in your mind’s eye a new future for yourself.
See the full article:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-wise-open-mind/201104/six-mindful-strategies-recover-the-shock-loss
Sofia,
I found this prayer and it really speaks to how I feel. This experience has shaken my FAITH. This experience has made me question everything. Here is the prayer I wanted to share with you. This sums up my feelings. I feel ashamed but I have really almost lost FAITH. This is a daily roller coaster ride.
The prayer says a turn around can happen in the blink of an eye.
Prayer for Recovery from Devastation
Dear God,
I feel as though the love within me…
…as though the very core of me…
has been destroyed.
Yet that is not possible, for You are my core.
I feel ashamed, Lord.
I know life is a gift, yet I feel barely able to go on.
This wound…
….this terrible sense of loss and hurt weighs upon me.
It threatens to become a rage that will not be quelled—
—Or a wall of ice that will keep me numb and separate from others.
O God, this pain is not who I choose to be.
I know it is not what You envision for me.
Lift me out of this O God!
Lift me out now!
Bless those who pray with me now, in my hour of need.
For, as I read this, the power of my mind
is multiplied across space and time
by all who read and speak this prayer.
All the love in all the hearts you have made…
are with me now, sending me love.
You are a billion to the billionth power more powerful in my life
than any perpetrator, tragedy, loss or hurt could ever be.
Aligned with You
I am more powerful than any event or experience.
Together, We are a giant and irresistible force
And We now unleash Your healing power within me.
By Your Grace, the anger, rage, fear and pain stuck within
Washes through and out of me, never to return.
New and vibrant energy fills me.
I am raised first into the attractor field of forgiveness…
and then into true joy.
For You make all things right.
By Your Grace—
You heal my heart so I can love again.
You restore the bounce in my step so I enjoy life again.
You renew my faith so I can trust again.
You give me reason, again, to live and love and again be joyful.
Thank You God!
For there can always be a turnaround.
Thank You God!
That a turnaround can happen in the blink of an eye.
Thank You God!
For filling me with the balm of Your Lovingkindness.
Thank You God!
That I am restored and healed.
The energy within me has changed for all time.
Strong and beautiful, I overflow in Your Glory.
I thank You, O God of Many Names but One Heart.
I weep in joy for Your intense and comforting Presence
for You are closer to me than my own breath
and You understand what I need.
And so it is.
Amen.
Great post, and so true – online dating can be great – I know of half a dozen very happy relationships/marriages that came directly from online dating (my own included!). But then, I’d been through a couple of years of individual and group therapy, dealing with my heartbreak script, before i was ready to go online. And even then, it tested me a bit, because if you want practice with assclowns, then online is your playground! But the crucial thing was that by the time I was ready, I’d dealt with the void inside me that I had been trying to fill with crippling relationships. Exactly as Selkie says above, it’s our own anxiety/issues that lie behind our unhappy relationships. In my own experiences, I needed a reason to feel insecure/heartbroken/anxious/sad, because I was all those things inside already but hadn’t faced that. And the thing about projecting it onto someone else, is that we can then kid ourselves we have a hope of fixing the pain if only they X/Y/Z. And of course, they never will, because we have, subconsciously, chosen them to break our hearts, because heartbreak/pain/anxiety/lack of worth is our NORMAL. Like Eckhart Tolle says: If peace is really what you want, then you will choose peace.
So, the only way I know is to change your normal, and the only way I managed to do this was through ferocious self love (even though I found it exhausting to be kind to myself, and rather alien, too), and also weekly therapy, and monthly reiki, massages, as I slowly acclimmatised myself to a more peaceful, happier, more loving life (Alone. That was crucial. No-one can make you happy, and this is a great time to find that out and step up to doing the job yourself)
Once I’d got there, I felt I was ready and since it’s a bit harder to meet people in your late thirties I went online. And amongs the usual assortment of dysfunctional types, (and I’m not going to slag them off, because I was a dysfunctional type myself not that long ago!) I met a wonderful man. It wasn’t even that hard to spot him, because he was the one who made me feel peaceful from the off. 1.5 years later and we are living together and the joy and peace and contentment I had learned to have while alone is now something I get to share with another. Happy days. But, I’ve got to say, If you have the sort of patterns that we Baggage Reclaimers all seem to have, insecure attachment, low self worth etc etc, then you’ve got to out the inside right before the outside can come right, in my opinion. And if you have a crap therapist, keep looking! They are out there, and they work wonders. Transactional Analysis worked really well for me as it appealed to my logical, thinky brain whilst also tuning me into my feelings.
Oh, last thought: another book recommendation which cuts right to the heart of things is There’s Nothing Wrong With You by Cheri Huber. It’s so simple, but so true. Keep on keeping on everybody, this is just a step on the journey to a better relationship – with yourself. And that’s the one that really matters.
Hi Nickster,
thanks for sharing! What an uplifting post! I can second everything that you have written as I am in my own process and observed very much similar outcomes.
I think the one thing that I also read in a book was, and it is so true is, “get to know yourself really well”.
The worst thing is to think you know everything about yourself, and I became really curious about myself and a lot of questions came up, that luckily I was able to discuss with a good therapist. I feel so much calmer and compassionate towards myself and while I had to take a break from online dating after a year, which was not a bad experience per se ( I would consider it again I guess), it was challenging and at times felt like work, but I always saw it as a tool that would put me in contact with a man my age group. That was all I expected and then went from there. Anyhow, I met a man through people I knew and somewhat the timing was right.
It is still early in our relationship but I know now that there is someone out there that is kind, smart and fun to be around and I felt so comfortable talking to him and being with him, the very first minute we met. It gives me hope and so did your post.
Thank you!
@Nickster, that is such a wise comment and it gives me hope. I think that I have also through years of therapy, self-help, come to a place where I am not looking for anyone to validate me. I was picking dysfunctional relationships earlier and staying in them – and I definitely picked or stayed with people that couldnt validate anything that were actively resistant in fact in validating anything – the ex-AC I was with (not the fake dater EUM from last year but the gas lighter) would have not even agreed with me that the grass was green, so deep was his need to punish me for starting to see through his facade. And I was a total maniac to him, expecting him to change for me etc rather than leaving him (and he didn’t leave me either so he preferred to stay and torture me, and I preferred to stay and berate him for torturing me). For someone that already suffered from depression and anxiety, that relationship was like a long mental breakdown.
I picked an EUM last year, and he treated me poorly yet I never sought validation from him. He hooked me in some ways but thats because for a while I was attracted to him, and I liked him. He was quite an ass to me. The idea that I might reach out to him is laughable. I never tried to change him, it just took me a while to figure him out and to realize what he was doing. And I realized that what turned me off him was also that HE needed validation, from everyone, from women especially.
So I think that I have figured out enough of my anxiety – I still feel it but I dont act on it anymore. I have a lot more compassion for myself. I’m not ready for online not in the town I live in now, but I liked your story. I often feel like I am just not cut out for relationships, that I will pick people that somehow undermine me – but I have learnt to identify that undermining very well now and at least I can say that I am single and loving it. And your post gives me hope that its possible to bring that new self-knowledge into a relationship, that the hardness I’ve acquired from years of living alone and getting over the glass-bowlery of others doesnt mean I’m incapable of being with someone.
No one is real until you meet them. It’s so easy to form fantasy relationships. But ultimately, people believe the negative things that they want to believe because it’s easier to do nothing than it is to take a good hard look in the mirror and see who is responsible for their OWN CHOICES and what THEY CHOOSE to accept.
No one can control what another person does.
Also, I was under the impression that the comments section wasn’t a forum, but lately that’s all is it, especially with people preaching their religious beliefs. Maybe some people need to exchange emails and continue their chats privately.
Also, I was under the impression that the comments section wasn’t a forum, but lately that’s all is it, especially with people preaching their religious beliefs. Maybe some people need to exchange emails and continue their chats privately.
This. Nailed it.
I agree.
Me too.
Kee,
Thanks for sharing the article on trauma. It is really good.
MJ
Mary Jane
Your most welcome! 🙂
Kee
Well, alas the mask has cracked. My first attempt at at on line dating was a miserable failure after all is said and done. The guy I have posted about who had ex wife porn ( oh, bit it was innocent misunderstanding ), and then had a woman calling him late at night who he hid me from ( yet another innocent misunderstanding ), came to get his things today( he had left many items, big stuff like power tools ) from my house. After some talking when he came to my door ( I didn’t let him in, just put his stuff out on the patio ) and me being firm about no more chances, then him yet again on his knees begging for another chance, and me saying I don’t tolerate liars, him still denying it, then WHAM he slipped. What came out of his mouth, OMG, the depth and extent of the lies were staggering. I knew he had lied to me but oh man, I had NO idea what was really going on and what was happening in this mans life when I wasn’t around. It was way more than I even suspected and I suspected a lot by now, I feel so duped. My heart was not exactly broken, I was NOT in love with him after only three months ( but I did like him a lot ), and I did have hope that he was a decent man, or at least not a complete lying dirtbag when we first started out dating. He sure seemed like such a sweet man in the beginning. Now I feel so unsettled and depressed to know that I was entangled with what amounts to a huge lying con man. Even though I thought I was keep my feelings in check ( thank god ), and made a real effort to do so, it still feels lousy. Him coming here to get his things set me back a little bit. Just the shear coldness of another human being able to deceive another like he has and to stand there and still profess love in the face of lies piling up over top of hi, just makes me sad. I’m done whining about it now. I just feel like the wind has been knocked out of me and I had to tell someone. It’s been a bad couple of weeks for me and I am emotionally drained.
Selkie,
this man and all pathological liars are TRAPPED in their own world. They did not manage to escape (yet). Once you digest your grief you’ll see how lucky you are that you do not live in that world and only got involved briefly and by being pulled into it. You’ll see. Best, V.
Selkie,
it’s amazing how skillful these guys are to lie and make it sound true. You did a right thing to kick him out. Good job!!!
Hang in there. It will pass.
HUGS.
Surprised
Selkie, there must be something about these EUMs that makes them cry and beg and put on a big show. My ex used to do the same. I would catch him in some lie or shadiness, and he would come to my place, crying, begging, literally down on his knees pleading. I would take it as a sign of deep remorse and desire to do better — but now that I think about it, it was proof of guilt. After all, if a guy kept accusing me of being a liar when I wasn’t, I’d dump his ass fast, not go to his place and cry. At least you didn’t keep falling for it, as I did.
Unfolding,
You said
” the one that hurt you so much…it won’t make a difference if you think more about their behavior, they are who they are and that doesn’t work for you. Period. So you are done. There is nothing to look for. To understand. The message is bright and clear. Accept the message spoken or unspoken and accept the actions and give them the true meaning they have for YOU! ”
What your wrote here to SaySomething, MJ and Kee was so gentle, wise and thoughtful. Even though it was not aimed at me, reading it helped me get a grip on some spiraling feelings of anger and confusion over some one else’s shady behavior. It’s easy to feel sorry for oneself and repeatedly think why why why, how COULD they be so terrible. What his actions mean for me are that he is not a good man and his actions are about who HE is. He is not somebody I could love, when all is said and done. I understand that on a rational level, but I am mourning the fantasy. Yea, I indulged in some fantasy, even though I told myself I wasn’t. Clearly I did. I bought in. It’s the uncomfortable withdrawal from the hope and promise of a future that is now evaporated and never really existed. It’s hard to adjust to the failure of a dream. I did allow myself to dream, at my own detriment. I know I said I would stop whining. Attempt number two.
Say Something,
I am so sorry I suggested the man who hurt you may have cared on some level. I didn’t mean to be condescending if it seemed like it, it wasn’t my intention. I still feel that maybe these men do care on some basic level, unless they are complete sociopath ( not that it matters because it doesn’t change things in the end), but I understand a little better how you feel now, like it was all pretend on their part. I have come to realize I wasted 3-4 months of my time and heart on a chameleon. It feels surreal and hard to get a grip on the reality of things that are so changed in the snap of a finger. ( attempt to stop whining #3 ) In the after math, it makes us feel unloveable, but it so not true. We are worthy of love, care and respect. We may never understand the why’s , and how’s…..but we have to move forward regardless. How? Letting go of the fantasy. They aren’t who they led us to believe. We are not who they thought they were. That is reality.
I apologize for rambling. I cannot sleep.
I meant….THEY are not who we thought they were.
Hi Selkie,
I know it sounds twisted, but I think it’s a GOOD thing you witnessed the mask slip/ crack once again. EVIDENCE. I know it’s disappointing, and you were hoping that your online work paid off. You are smart and courageous, and did everything right. And it still sucks.
You are right:
“They aren’t who they led us to believe. We are not who they thought they were. That is reality.”
No apologies necessary, Selkie. I know it’s hard to relate to beyond bizarre behavior, which is why I continue to struggle with my own thoughts. Although you didn’t tell us what he said, it clearly rattled you. Based on new things revealed, words coming out of their mouths, we are left in disbelief. WHO ARE YOU? There’s a difference between ‘unfolding’, which in my mind is done gradually, so we can assess along the way, and ‘exploding’. For me, I can’t see how he (BGE) could say the hurtful things he did, completely dismiss me after “future faking” that same day, lead me to believe he hadn’t give up when he had, while still claiming to care, or to have ever cared. It’s like he cared ONLY about himself. There is no sense.
Do you feel like not only did he reveal a few things that didn’t line up with what you need in a partner, (Netflix night and OW phone calls), but that it in the end it was SO EXTREME that he is someone that is NOTHING LIKE the person he presented? Like Jekyll-Hyde different? That was my reality. I’m so sorry.
Say Something, I’m no expert in the situation you had, but I guess the Jekyll/Hyde cases are very detached from themselves, they may honestly have no clue who they are and what they want. They just drift from one person to another, like a passenger, moulding themselves to the situation while secretly harboring resentment towards themselves and persons they are involved in. They take no responsibility for what happens as they don’t see themselves as a person who has acted or done anything. Events just “occur” to these people. They can leave abruptly as they may have processed their anger or frustration for a long time without never telling the other person about it.
I’ve slowly realized that I’m one of these people. Maybe not so lost (anymore) and trying hard to get rid of bad habits, but I can be incredibly on/off with people. I have a host of issues which I’m not going to list here, but basically I don’t tell the other person I’m upset or frustrated because I don’t like to nag. Once I’ve had enough of what I consider bad treatment, I just cut these people out of my life, no explanations. I’m not proud of this and I’ve only had to do it a couple of times, but it’s enough for me to recognize it’s not healthy and I need to find another way to deal with my boundaries.
I’m not justifying any of the behaviour AC did to you. Just providing my two cents to help you think of things from another perspective. Lots of hugs, it will get better!
Evvie,
Thank you for your awareness and sharing. You said you cut people off for repeatedly treating you badly. That sounds more like enforcing a boundary. The beginning part, when you say events just “occur” and they are detached, that does seem possible. I can guarantee that I never mistreated him. Ever. I hope you are getting what you need here.
Sorry if my message was misunderstood – I did not imply in any way that you mistreated the AC. Just wanted to point out that they may (and probably) have a very different picture of what happened and what was so wrong that caused them to break things off. I can understand the bewilderment you are going through. What AC did to you is shitty treatment, no one deserves that.
If you can, try moving the focus from AC back to you. In time, you will maybe see some things differently and understand the past better, maybe that does not happen no matter how hard you try. Please do not get too stuck in the past and let one person dictate how you feel about life.
Selkie,
thank you for the kind words! There is so much wisdom on here, I am so glad for BR!
I too have indulged in some fantasies, and I was aware I was doing it, but did not realize what a slippery slope it is. Now I know that if a guy triggers my fantasy world, it triggers also my own EU-ness and thus I think the guy is probably major EU possibly AC. Fantasies are okay if you don’t indulge too much or stay there for too long when you are already sensing that there is some BS going on, and we DO realize it, those spidery senses tell you, I even get physical responses (tight stomach), but we push it away, thinking “I might be just nervous”. No, if the discomfort/nervousness doesn’t go away within the first 10min approx., you are with the WRONG guy, I know that now for myself. So it is completely okay to try and have an evening of fantasies if it turns out that way, but then I would go home and think about it and understand the dynamics after studying BR for 1.5 years :)and I would forgive myself for indulging. I mean it is tough not get swept away, it really is, but if you value truth and honesty, than you have to also see the inconvenient truth about a person, that is unfolding!!
So Selkie, please forgive yourself for indulging and understand what you did and why and what kind of talk triggers your fantasy, next time you might be better prepared and think to yourself:” Ah that story is the guy pulling, okay, got it…”
And then when you had your fill, you can tell yourself, like I do, as I now think of really bad dates as “life-skill-training partners”:
Thank you for showing me your soul, as openly as you did and I want to get no closer to people of such low quality!!
And then there is no respect left to like them for….anything and it is actually pretty easy to move on from there!
Good luck!
(yes, we need that too!)
Unfolding
I was so naive when I joined a dating site, a year after my husband had left. I thought, ‘I’ll just be myself and use online to get to meet someone in real life and see how it goes’.
I assumed that men on a dating site had the same honest intentions, and that I would quickly spot those who did not (after all, I had only had serious relationships till then, never allowed players and shady people to get a foot in my life). How wrong could I be!
Fast forward two years, and I have only managed to let go completely of this person (and all the fantasies around him) whom I met online and who has kept coming in and out of my life since, driving me to my wits’ end.
I went into a very dark place. I lost myself. I thought I may never be able to come out of it again. But now – at last – I feel strong again, I can laugh, I can take care of myself better, I don’t need anyone’s validation. Instead of anxiety and dread, I go to sleep filled with a sense of joy and compassion. I have bad days, of course, I still feel pain and grief, but it is the end of a nightmare. None of it has to do with my worth as a person anymore. The focus is squarely back on myself.
I am writing this just to say if I could do it, every single one of you can too. Hang on in there, have compassion for yourself. There is a turning point, where the other person becomes small and relatively insignificant, and you can see how you have been hurting yourself long past that person has left. Then you can choose to hold yourself with kindness and let go of all the stories you’ve been clinging to.
Amen to that ReadyforChange!
I feel like I have something to add here in regards to the age difference issue that a few people were commenting on earlier. This is just my opinion, but I personally get very frustrated when people get too hung up on chronological age, whether in a dating or work-related context. I think a lot of people confuse age with life experience and/or maturity, even though they are very different things. I’ve met sixty-year-olds that act like they are still in Junior High. I know that I have a lot of life experience comparatively for my age (I’m 27). I’m seeing a very wise therapist right now who told me that I’m much more mature than he would expect to see for someone my age & I’ve personally always preferred older men. My two serious relationships were with men 5 & 10 years older than me, respectively. Also, there have been studies done that prove that the male brain takes longer to mature than the female brain. Men don’t actually fully mature until about 29 whereas the average female is fully developed by about 18-20, so even from a scientific point of view, it can make sense for a woman to date older men. That being said, even when I was growing up, I often felt that I had more in common with adults than with my peers. In my opinion, as long as the two people in a relationship are both consenting adults, age shouldn’t be an issue.
Yesterday, I watched a news clip about this man I met online. Watching him apologize for lying to …, I smiled at the realization of being swepted away by his, obvious, romantic fairy tales filled with sugar plums and white knights on horses from nursery rhymes where cows jumped over moons and wolves blew down houses.
Wait, he wasn’t apologizing; he was ‘explaining’ why he lied. He did NOT apologize.
People are inherently flawed.
Most people lie.
Nuns have sex drives.
All relationships end.
And, reality doesn’t make sense.
EVERYTHING MUST CHANGE
Artistt: Bernard Ighner
Recorded by:
Oleta Adams; Jan Akkerman; Karrin Allyson; George Benson;
Johanne Blouin; Brazz Bros.; Karen Briggs; June Christy;
Judi Connelli; Davell Crawford; Randy Crawford;
Yvonne Elliman; Ethel Ennis; Jon Faddis; Steve Ferrone;
Connye Florance; Lee Gibson; Gene Harris; Loretta Holloway;
Richard “Groove” Holmes; Shirley Horn; ,Bernard Ighner;
James Ingram; Milt Jackson; Walter Jackson; Minoo Javan;
Miles Jaye; Quincy Jones; The Keystone Quartet;
Morgana King; Peggy Lee; Ranee Lee; Michael Lington;
Marijah; Al McKibbon; Carmen McRae; Montreal Jazz Club;
David “Fathead” Newman; Susan Osborn; Liz Ott;
Jackie Paris; Billy Paul; Michel Portal; Arthur Prysock;
Lou Rawls; Kim Richmond; David Sanborn; Tom Scott;
Avery Sharpe; Marlena Shaw; Archie Shepp Quartet;
Nina Simone; Barbra Streisand; Lynette Washington;
David Williams; Steve Wilson; Danny Wright.
Everything must change
Nothing stays the same
Everyone will change
No one stays the same
The young become the old
And mysteries do unfold
For that’s the way of time
Nothing and no one goes unchanged
There are not many things in life we can be sure of…
except rain comes from the clouds and sun lights up the sky
And hummingbirds do fly
Winter turns to spring
A wounded heart will heal
But never much too soon
Yes everything must change
The young become the old
And mysteries do unfold
For that’s the way of time
Nothing and no one goes unchanged
There are not many things in life we can be sure of…
except the rain comes from the clouds
The sun lights up the sky
and hummingbirds do fly
Yes, rain comes from the clouds and sun lights up the sky
And music makes me cryyyyyyyyyyyy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2mH8xvo8fo
Hi Say Something,
When I read your post about all those lost weekends it really stuck with me. Like you I have lost time thinking about foolishness (lies).
Time is all we really have. Be good to yourself and try your best to enjoy each day. Start making plans to enjoy weekends and start living again. We cant control the cards we were dealt but we have control over how we process what was done. Sometimes that is so hard to process. We have to grieve and think about what is next. I have a FUN weekend planned out. Party of one but life must go on. One day the hurt want feel as intense.
@Unfolding thank you so much for your kinds words of encouragement that you posted this week. You really gave me something to think about. Thanks for some powerful advice given in a kind and respectful way. THANK YOU for caring. I appreciate your advice.
@Selkie,@Kee,@Surprised, @Sofia, @Truth IC,@Suki- you may like this article as well. Thanks to all of you for sharing your stories. It helps me understand we all have stuff to deal with.
http://tinybuddha.com/blog/change-life-changing-stories-tell-yourself/
“Don’t Come Around Here No More
By Tom Petty and David A. Stewart”
Hey!
Hey!
Don’t come around here no more
Don’t come around here no more
Whatever you’re looking for
Hey! don’t come around here no more
I’ve given up STOP
I’ve given up STOP
I’ve given up STOP
On waiting any longer
I’ve given up on its love getting stronger
Don’t come around here no more
Don’t come around here no more
Don’t come around here no more
Don’t come around here no more
I don’t feel you anymore
You darken my door
Whatever you’re looking for
Hey! don’t come around here no more
I’ve given up STOP
I’ve given up STOP
I’ve given up STOP
You tangle my emotions
I’ve given up honey
Please admit it’s overrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Hey!
Don’t come around here no more
Don’t come around here no more
Don’t come around here no more
Don’t come around here no more
Stop walking down my street
Don’t come around here no more
Who do you expect to meet?
Don’t come around here no more
And whatever you’re looking for
hey! don’t come around here no more, hey!
Honey please don’t come around here no more
Whatever you’re looking for
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0JvF9vpqx8&list=RDh0JvF9vpqx
The stories we tell ourselves ……….
Sometimes the stories we tell ourselves as our most difficult experiences unfold—stories about who we are, why these things are happening to us, and what the effects of them will be on the rest of our lives—can make the difference between surviving our difficult times and being destroyed by them.
I have to change the stories I am telling myself because they are not working to my benefit.
Please tell me BGE does not stand for best guy ever. Why would a guy who treated a person badly be called a BGE? BGE is a term I’d reserve for my hubby on the 50 th anniversary of our wedding. In my day those douchbags ppl seem to be describing were called ACs!
“If we have our feet planted fairly firmly in reality and we know who we are and are relatively personally secure. .”
This sentence really resonated with me and quite honestly, I fee those of us without this is why dating (online) is so hard to do.
Not knowing who we are or what we REALLY want is the perfect recipe for disaster.
Awesome post!